Xfce 4.16 development phase starting(simon.shimmerproject.org)
simon.shimmerproject.org
Xfce 4.16 development phase starting
https://simon.shimmerproject.org/2019/10/19/xfce-4-15-development-phase-starting/
52 comments
> I stopped using gedit because everything is now buried under a single hamburger menu, and interacting with it is infuriating.
This seems to be a common user story with all of Gnome3.
This seems to be a common user story with all of Gnome3.
I haven't had issues w/ i3wm and polybar on debian, but I'm somewhat of a zealot when it comes to reducing "noise" on my desktop and am happy to deal with the foibles that pursuit entails.
I've been happy with Xfce since Gnome lost me with v3. I've also found myself relying so much on my tile-window-left/right/NW/NE/SW/SE shortcuts that using a computer without them has become aggravating.
I think I'll probably hold out until Xfce becomes too unusable and then just bite the bullet and pick a tiling wm.
I think I'll probably hold out until Xfce becomes too unusable and then just bite the bullet and pick a tiling wm.
I could have written this comment.
I tried awesome around 2012 for a while but found that I didn't like it. My tastes and habits have changed substantially since then so I might try awesome or another tiling WM. Before I used Gnome I used IceWM and I might give that another try too, as I think it has some basic tiling features.
I tried awesome around 2012 for a while but found that I didn't like it. My tastes and habits have changed substantially since then so I might try awesome or another tiling WM. Before I used Gnome I used IceWM and I might give that another try too, as I think it has some basic tiling features.
Part of me is happy to see this, IMO CSDs do make applications look cleaner and more aesthetic.
The other part though expects this to be a compatibility nightmare. Are XFCE CSDs going to work out of the box in GNOME? KDE? Are we going to fragment Linux applications a third time, adding in XFCE-specific apps to the GNOME and KDE/QT fragmentation we already have?
The other part though expects this to be a compatibility nightmare. Are XFCE CSDs going to work out of the box in GNOME? KDE? Are we going to fragment Linux applications a third time, adding in XFCE-specific apps to the GNOME and KDE/QT fragmentation we already have?
I started playing around with Linux since Redhat 5.1, and it is amazing that after all these years, some people still don't get it when it comes to good UI/UX design. The fonts look all out of place even on window titles.
I thought, well it is an open source project with people doing this on their spare time, maybe I should contribute to that project to help, but the issue is so widespread that there really needs to be a frank conversation about it so that all the teams start doing some basic polish on the presentation.
I'm very glad though that the font rendering nightmare is over in Linux and funny enough, IMHO now Windows has the crazy font rendering.
I thought, well it is an open source project with people doing this on their spare time, maybe I should contribute to that project to help, but the issue is so widespread that there really needs to be a frank conversation about it so that all the teams start doing some basic polish on the presentation.
I'm very glad though that the font rendering nightmare is over in Linux and funny enough, IMHO now Windows has the crazy font rendering.
It all boils down to the fact that it just doesn't matter. Any hangups exist mostly in our heads, and everyone has different hangups so there's no winning the battle. Some people think consistency is important, I find it causes me to get confused more often, like driving around a cookie-cutter neighborhood where you're never quite sure you're pulling into the right driveway, even though you've lived there for 5 years. Corporations have salaried design teams that need to constantly prove their value, when really they could have stopped working in 1995 and we all would have been just fine.
The differences between LXDE (the original branch, not LXQt), Xfce, MATE are basically fading away by now. I wonder if they could all standardize on a shared code base.
Heck, even GNOME3 is not that crazy if you ignore the whole Gnome-Shell bit (and yes, Cinnamon basically forks Gnome-Shell, as opposed to providing an entirely independent environment.) One could easily have an alternative "shell" portion providing an Xfce- or MATE-like experience, while still relying on the basic desktop-app suite that we get as part of that project.
Heck, even GNOME3 is not that crazy if you ignore the whole Gnome-Shell bit (and yes, Cinnamon basically forks Gnome-Shell, as opposed to providing an entirely independent environment.) One could easily have an alternative "shell" portion providing an Xfce- or MATE-like experience, while still relying on the basic desktop-app suite that we get as part of that project.
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The main reason I use gnome is the keyboard shortcuts. I tried most other desktop environments and I just needed the mouse too often. Being able to see all open applications with Super is really nice too.
I'm relatively new to recent desktop Linux, having been on macs for past decade or so. As Gnome is my distro's default, I've stayed with it for simplicity and am having a hard time finding what so many people dislike about it. As you write, it's very keyboard-navigable. It's quick on my (fastish) laptop. It's kind of spartan & minimalistic compared to macOS & Windows 10, which seems like a good thing.
I can see the appeal of i3 etc, but if all you want is a relatively mainstream DE that works & stays out of the way, Gnome seems about right to me.
I can see the appeal of i3 etc, but if all you want is a relatively mainstream DE that works & stays out of the way, Gnome seems about right to me.
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First, that's awesome. I'm glad that Xfce provides a lightweight, sane alternative to GNOME.
Second, OMG it's 2019 and we still haven't developed the technology that would allow us to take screenshots that aren't covered in cute women. That was initially kinda cool 25 years ago when we were starting to get computers capable of rendering JPEGs in a reasonable amount of time. It seems less cool now when people are still using them to brag about their comprehensive K-pop collections.
To be clear, I have nothing whatsoever against cute women. I married one. But guys, a little real talk: these kinds of screenshots do nothing to make us look more professional. Can we start showcasing literally anything else, like our collections of tropical fish, or birds, or beaches, or...?
Second, OMG it's 2019 and we still haven't developed the technology that would allow us to take screenshots that aren't covered in cute women. That was initially kinda cool 25 years ago when we were starting to get computers capable of rendering JPEGs in a reasonable amount of time. It seems less cool now when people are still using them to brag about their comprehensive K-pop collections.
To be clear, I have nothing whatsoever against cute women. I married one. But guys, a little real talk: these kinds of screenshots do nothing to make us look more professional. Can we start showcasing literally anything else, like our collections of tropical fish, or birds, or beaches, or...?
to make us look more professional
What is "professional"? I'm very glad that Xfce is not a company, because the term only brings to mind bland, sterile, mindless, and boring office-drones. Fortunately plenty of open-source doesn't shy away from being more... raw human (for lack of a better term.)
What is "professional"? I'm very glad that Xfce is not a company, because the term only brings to mind bland, sterile, mindless, and boring office-drones. Fortunately plenty of open-source doesn't shy away from being more... raw human (for lack of a better term.)
> But guys, a little real talk: these kinds of screenshots do nothing to make us look more professional.
Professional advertising has always featured attractive women in screen shots or using products. They ipad page has attractive women in selfies: https://www.apple.com/ipad-10.2/ . The pixel 3 page has women in tight shorts walking down the street: https://store.google.com/product/pixel_3 .
The only difference is this is using a personal k-pop collection instead of professional photography.
Professional advertising has always featured attractive women in screen shots or using products. They ipad page has attractive women in selfies: https://www.apple.com/ipad-10.2/ . The pixel 3 page has women in tight shorts walking down the street: https://store.google.com/product/pixel_3 .
The only difference is this is using a personal k-pop collection instead of professional photography.
> The only difference is this is using a personal k-pop collection instead of professional photography.
Well, it may be a personal collection, but it's almost certainly also professional photography.
Well, it may be a personal collection, but it's almost certainly also professional photography.
Are you sure you don’t mean it was cool when you were 25 years younger? Like the author of this blog post and indeed the developer of the Xfce feature might be for all we know.
Most kpop fans are female, why do you assume it's a guy? :)
I guess I'm just not triggered by women in sweatshirts.
It's kind of crazy that almost everything is seen as offensive these days. These girls will be fine I promise.
Unless you're a teenager or actually writing about kpop that directory full of those girl's images looks ridiculous and screams creep.
I’m not remotely offended. I just think we could put a better foot forward when we want to be taken seriously.
This is a Linux website. This is what Linus has to say about being professional:
Because if you want me to "act professional", I can tell you that I'm not interested. I'm sitting in my home office wearing a bathrobe.
Uh, can I opt out of both? :-D
This is linuxreviews.org, which I believe is just a site run by some guy, so meh, just let he do his thing. If it was an official release from XFCE, then I wouuld agree with you.
Much better article, from the source: https://simon.shimmerproject.org/2019/10/19/xfce-4-15-develo...
Not sure why the linked article is describing all this stuff as some big "secret"; the Xfce development list has been public forever. It's also weird to call Simon's public blog "secret".
Not sure why the linked article is describing all this stuff as some big "secret"; the Xfce development list has been public forever. It's also weird to call Simon's public blog "secret".
Ok, we've changed to that from https://linuxreviews.org/Xfce4-panel_4.15.0_kicks_off_Xfces_.... Thanks!
> Let’s start with one very important and obvious change: we will drop Gtk2 support with Xfce 4.16. This will have a concrete effect on old Panel plugins or Gtk2 applications that rely on libxfce4ui.
I read a blog by dedoimedo who complains constantly at how willing Linux developers are to break things / not maintain compatibility. It makes me think of how I take for granted how so many of my old pc games will still run on windows 10. Not that the telemetry is acceptable
I read a blog by dedoimedo who complains constantly at how willing Linux developers are to break things / not maintain compatibility. It makes me think of how I take for granted how so many of my old pc games will still run on windows 10. Not that the telemetry is acceptable
I wouldn't say "Linux developers". To me, it seems that not only are the Linux kernel developers incredibly concerned with backwards compatibility, but so are many other projects. In my view, it's only in the context of DE stuff like Gtk/Gnome that backwards compatibility seems to go out the window.
I like Gtk2 but it has big problems in HiDPI scenarios, and is not Wayland native. It's quite worthwhile by now to standardize on the Gtk3 series, at least provided that reliable theming is added back in - and Gtk3 developers seem to be aware that this is widely considered to be a real issue.
GTK3 came out in 2011, which was also the year of the last major GTK2 release. Its not implausible that GTK4 will be out before Xfce 4.16.
How long should older software like GTK2 be supported by upstream developers? Keep in mind XFCE is more or less a volunteer-run software effort.
How long should older software like GTK2 be supported by upstream developers? Keep in mind XFCE is more or less a volunteer-run software effort.
I don’t know what I’d do if I couldn’t play games from the 90s. Recently discovered Imperium Galactica 2 and Space Empires 4 - from 99 and 2000 - and they both run great on Win10, 20 years later.
Creepy website. I bet those women didn't consent to having their pictures being used like that. This isn't /g/.
Are you worried about their legal rights in the images?
If you're part of a performing group, having images of you splashed all over accompanied by statements of how much people like you ("Who is the most talented Twice member and why is it Nayeon?") is generally considered to be a good thing.
If you're part of a performing group, having images of you splashed all over accompanied by statements of how much people like you ("Who is the most talented Twice member and why is it Nayeon?") is generally considered to be a good thing.
>having images of you splashed all over accompanied by statements of how much people like you
If only. These are selfies of women being used in the logo space. It changes to a new selfie every time you reload. Very creepy.
If only. These are selfies of women being used in the logo space. It changes to a new selfie every time you reload. Very creepy.
It looks like they're pictures of women from K-pop/Korean popular media groups overlayed with the site's name. It doesn't look like they're really selfies in the sense we understand it. They're not random people.
Well for a website about a permissively-licensed operating system, the author clearly has no problems violating copyright licenses by using these girl's photos in branding.
It looks like they're pictures of women from K-pop/Korean popular media groups overlayed with the site's name. It doesn't look like they're really selfies in the sense we understand it.
Do you have a screenshot of what you’re referring to? I can’t see it
Pop stars are known to be fairly discreet and private people.
Those look like pictures take from movies and popular media?
I guess now I just learned they are members of a Korean girl group. Not sure they'd approve of their pictures being used to promote "linuxreviews.org".
Doesn’t matter if they approve it or not, they almost certainly signed a release form, whoever owns the copyright gets to decide what use is allowed.
Most likely they are not the copyright holders so there's nothing to approve. Why so obsessed about random k pop pictures?
There is something to approve. There is a copyright holder and the way these images of the women are being used is a creepy form of advertising.
Would you describe it as creepy if these were a bunch of images containing popular anime characters instead of kpop band members?
I agree in that living in Korea they probably have to use Internet Explorer...
Kim Tae-yeon wants to be free
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If you don't like client-side decorations, the annoying part is that there doesn't appear to be a good way to opt-out. You can configure your window manager to draw the system title-bars anyway, so that you at least have consistent pin/minimize/maximize/close buttons, but then you usually end up with a double menu. But also, the process of applications moving to this style usually involves throwing away the standard File / Edit / View / ... / Help menu bar, which can be incredibly annoying if not done thoughtfully.
I stopped using gedit because everything is now buried under a single hamburger menu, and interacting with it is infuriating.