How a Cruise Ship Makes 30k Meals Every Day [video](youtube.com)
youtube.com
How a Cruise Ship Makes 30k Meals Every Day [video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2vXbFp5C9o
96 comments
We've only been on a cruise once and my wife still raves about the 24 hour Pirate Pizza joint the Carnival Cruise had that we went on. They were the thinnest, crunchiest flatbread pizzas we ever had.
For some reason, one of my fondest childhood memories was using the ship debit card my parents gave me to buy many of those circle personal pan pizzas on the top deck of a carnival cruise. Cruise pizza is no joke!
For me it's the Guy's Burgers - but it is soft serve ice cream 24/7 for my daughter.
It may be "The Walmart of Cruising" but we always have fun and meet new people on Carnival for a very reasonable cost.
It may be "The Walmart of Cruising" but we always have fun and meet new people on Carnival for a very reasonable cost.
I’ve always been too worried about catching a norovirus, to go on a cruise ship.
And plus, if I go on vacation, I’d rather explore, than be stuck on a boat for 7 days.
And plus, if I go on vacation, I’d rather explore, than be stuck on a boat for 7 days.
I think you do explore - that's the point - the ship docks at various coastal towns and you go ashore for the day, then go back on and sail again. You're only going to be stuck on the ship for 7 days if you're sailing straight across an ocean.
Plus some people like to just relax and for example take the time to read a book on vacation and aren't looking to explore.
Plus some people like to just relax and for example take the time to read a book on vacation and aren't looking to explore.
[deleted]
I used to think this as well, but my family and I decided to try one out and we explored way more than we normally do on holiday - due to the fact that you're in a different port each day, you end up visiting way more different places than a traditional holiday, where everywhere you explore has to be centred around your hotel. Cruises especially allowed us to explore a lot of cities and towns, which we normally wouldn't have gone to due to the lack of "chill out" time on city break holidays.
Of course, this is my experience of cruises around Europe, where there's a lot of interesting ports clustered closely together. The experience is probably pretty different otherwise.
Of course, this is my experience of cruises around Europe, where there's a lot of interesting ports clustered closely together. The experience is probably pretty different otherwise.
17 pounds of food per day per person?
What you rarely hear about is the gross amount of waste.
People are especially wasteful when the food is 'free' and plentiful. If you watch waiters that are removing plates during a typical cruise ship meal many/most contain uneaten portions.
Which is why some all-you-can-eat restaurants have started charging for uneaten food that's ordered but left on the plate i.e. sushi places especially.
People are especially wasteful when the food is 'free' and plentiful. If you watch waiters that are removing plates during a typical cruise ship meal many/most contain uneaten portions.
Which is why some all-you-can-eat restaurants have started charging for uneaten food that's ordered but left on the plate i.e. sushi places especially.
> If you watch waiters that are removing plates during a typical cruise ship meal many/most contain uneaten portions.
Lunch and on some lines for dinner perhaps, but the line I've often travelled on you have the executive chef walking round at dinner and inspecting the returned plates to assess the quantities remaining (and whether any dishes perform better than others).
It's the buffet that has the potential for greater waste, but you often see them rotate leftovers for a couple of days.
They're certainly not great, but I've seen greater per-person waste in hotel breakfasts (or basically any free buffet scenario as you say).
Lunch and on some lines for dinner perhaps, but the line I've often travelled on you have the executive chef walking round at dinner and inspecting the returned plates to assess the quantities remaining (and whether any dishes perform better than others).
It's the buffet that has the potential for greater waste, but you often see them rotate leftovers for a couple of days.
They're certainly not great, but I've seen greater per-person waste in hotel breakfasts (or basically any free buffet scenario as you say).
The bigger amount of waste is from food prepared in excess to demand. That's why food is repurposed as much as possible - leftover meat into stews, leftover vegetables into hash etc.
Yup. Kitchen makes a few hundred sheet pans of stuff according to a menu that's set well in advance (so that the ship can take on the proper supplies) and then because of the way things just happen to turn out certain dishes will get mostly eaten and others mostly trashed.
You simply can't optimize beyond a certain level because you need room to absorb changes in customer demand. You can't not serve soup on Thursday because the customers ate all your beef Wednesday and you have no stock.
You simply can't optimize beyond a certain level because you need room to absorb changes in customer demand. You can't not serve soup on Thursday because the customers ate all your beef Wednesday and you have no stock.
But not 17 lbs per person.
Food and drink, plus packaging. Allow for spoilage. And include crew in your served total, as others have noted.
Fresh fruits and vegetables have a high water weight, while being relatively calorically-sparse.
The total seems high to me, but it'd be interesting to see the breakdown.
Fresh fruits and vegetables have a high water weight, while being relatively calorically-sparse.
The total seems high to me, but it'd be interesting to see the breakdown.
Including crew, I'm getting around 9.5lb/person/day. Not sure where you got the 17 pounds number.
Nine pounds of food and drink, including packaging, pallets, skins, peels and bones. Doesn't sound all that far-fetched.
Nine pounds of food and drink, including packaging, pallets, skins, peels and bones. Doesn't sound all that far-fetched.
I'm can't watch the video right now, but I was wondering if that amount includes drinks. Water is heavy.
I always wondered whether the 7-day cruises were stocked only once at the beginning, or restocked mid-way at ports.
Does that mean they need to freeze lots of the seafood? Is the food less fresh by Day 6 and 7?
Does that mean they need to freeze lots of the seafood? Is the food less fresh by Day 6 and 7?
Most seafood you eat that you didn't catch yourself was frozen. Properly prepared and frozen seafood can taste better than unfrozen. And yes, their unfrozen foods that are going bad get turned into soup, but that is a normal restaurant thing.
This video is a bit more extensive and entertaining with such questions addressed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P48HQCgZWg0
I just don't get it. Who can respond positively to the continuous 1/2 second fast-cut edits and obnoxious "hard rock" music of videos like this? It's like everybody involved wants to advance from producing cruise ship documentaries to working for early 1990s MTV or something.
Of course it's not the most in-depth rigorous study of on-board ship operations, but what do you want / where else are you going to get a glimpse inside the ship for a popular audience? It has enough info to be useful I think.
Do you think the food you buy at the grocery store is less than six or seven days old? It's not.
Consumers can buy seafood at the grocery on, say, any given Thursday because they know the delivery truck makes periodic visits. And if they learn that schedule on a Tuesday they can wait it out two days until the phase wraps back around with fresh(ish) lobsters.
The phase reset on a cruise has the intended effect of re-supplying the fresh(ish) lobsters but with the unfortunate side-effect of dropping you off at the shore.
The phase reset on a cruise has the intended effect of re-supplying the fresh(ish) lobsters but with the unfortunate side-effect of dropping you off at the shore.
Lobsters are a weird example because they're usually alive in the tank (at grocery stores around here they're the only live animals sold) so I wouldn't think "fresh" would matter much?
That really depends on the food, the grocery store, the geographic location, the season, etc.
It is a mix. Resupply depends on many factors. Remember ships are stopping at different ports - and often different countries every day (except for cross ocean cruises which of course which don't stop). Thus they look into local taxes, availability, and such. Meals are planned which means they know what they need - but also means they can look at what will be available. They have the ability to load at any port. If they can get X cheap at some port they will buy it there. Thus if they can contract a local farmer to supply something cheap in one port they will. If shipping means some non-local food is cheaper in one port than another they will buy at the cheaper one. If labor is cheaper in one port they will try to use more of that labor.
Supply management is important to a cruise line. They are very good at getting the best prices. They take advantage of the ship moving to get the best prices.
Supply management is important to a cruise line. They are very good at getting the best prices. They take advantage of the ship moving to get the best prices.
It depends on the cruise line, but generally the food at the end of a cruise is less fresh than the food at the beginning.
If they spend $1,000,000 for 6,600 guests for 7 days then it only costs $21.60 in supplies to feed each guest per day.
They only talk about the 6600 guests as part of that purchase. The video talks about having 1085 employees in the different kitchens. They need to eat as well, so does their meals come from this same stock of food? There's also the rest of the staff like engineering, bridge crew, cleaning, etc. I'm guessing there's a couple hundred more employees at least. I'm pretty sure I'm thinking way more about this than the producer's target audience though.
This video is a bit more extensive and entertaining with such questions addressed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P48HQCgZWg0
Cruise ships often have more than .4 crew per guest. So 6600 guests would mean more than 2600 crew.
https://www.cruisewatch.com/top-10/ships-passenger-crew-rati...
https://www.cruisewatch.com/top-10/ships-passenger-crew-rati...
The top ships there - Crystal, SeaDream, SilverSea, SeaBourn - are all small ultra-luxury vessels. C̵a̵r̵i̵b̵b̵e̵a̵n̵ ̵P̵r̵i̵n̵c̵e̵s̵s̵,̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵o̵n̵l̵y̵ ̵R̵o̵y̵a̵l̵ ̵C̵a̵r̵i̵b̵b̵e̵a̵n̵ ̵v̵e̵s̵s̵e̵l̵ ̵o̵n̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵l̵i̵s̵t̵ ̵[̵0̵]̵ ̵h̵a̵s̵ ̵a̵ ̵p̵a̵s̵s̵e̵n̵g̵e̵r̵:̵c̵r̵e̵w̵ ̵o̵f̵ ̵0̵.̵3̵7̵ ̵-̵ ̵a̵n̵d̵ ̵h̵a̵l̵f̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵p̵a̵s̵s̵e̵n̵g̵e̵r̵ ̵c̵a̵p̵a̵c̵i̵t̵y̵ ̵o̵f̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵s̵h̵i̵p̵ ̵i̵n̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵v̵i̵d̵e̵o̵.̵ ̵S̵o̵ ̵I̵'̵d̵ ̵i̵m̵a̵g̵i̵n̵e̵ ̵0̵.̵3̵ ̵w̵o̵u̵l̵d̵ ̵b̵e̵ ̵a̵ ̵g̵o̵o̵d̵ ̵e̵s̵t̵i̵m̵a̵t̵e̵ ̵f̵o̵r̵ ̵a̵ ̵s̵h̵i̵p̵ ̵t̵w̵i̵c̵e̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵s̵i̵z̵e̵ ̵-̵ ̵r̵i̵g̵h̵t̵ ̵a̵r̵o̵u̵n̵d̵ ̵2̵0̵0̵0̵ ̵c̵r̵e̵w̵.̵ EDIT2: Caribbean Princess is not a Royal Caribbean ship, and Royal Caribbean's naming scheme is "* of the Seas" not "Caribbean *". Really not sure how I messed that one up.
EDIT: But we can do better than that! The Oasis-class of ships are the only ones with a ~6600 passenger capacity, and they of course all have wikipedia pages [1]. And that lists the crew at 2200, for a ratio of 0.33.
0: https://www.cruisewatch.com/cruise-ships/caribbean-princess/...
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oasis_of_the_Seas
EDIT: But we can do better than that! The Oasis-class of ships are the only ones with a ~6600 passenger capacity, and they of course all have wikipedia pages [1]. And that lists the crew at 2200, for a ratio of 0.33.
0: https://www.cruisewatch.com/cruise-ships/caribbean-princess/...
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oasis_of_the_Seas
There are at least 26 Royal Caribbean vessels on that list--they are the ones ending in "of the Seas".
Harmony of the Seas can handle almost 5500 passengers and 2400 crew.
Harmony of the Seas can handle almost 5500 passengers and 2400 crew.
Ouch, I completely misremembered their naming scheme then...
Thank you for quickly acknowledging and fixing it--a simple error anyone could make. It also appears you are right that my claim of >.4 is too high. Browsing the listings, it looks like .3 is probably closer.
I think I got things mixed up with Carnival, which does have a naming convention of "Carnival *". Either way, finding the actual ship on wikipedia and calculating from there is going to be better than extrapolating from other ships on the list. (And the post now does that)
Interesting to compare with the valley. Google food and drink cost per employee per day was around $16 when I last heard. Dropbox was the highest around $60, although this was a few years ago.
$1 million is just for supplies. It doesn't account for labor and other expenses.
Cruises are generally feeding each passenger 3+ meals per day though. And people tend to overeat on vacation as well.
How many meals does the average tech employee eat at work per day? My initial guess would be around 1.5, with the biggest meal of the day, dinner, usually being eaten outside of work. That would mean google spends more than twice as much per meal than cruises do.
How many meals does the average tech employee eat at work per day? My initial guess would be around 1.5, with the biggest meal of the day, dinner, usually being eaten outside of work. That would mean google spends more than twice as much per meal than cruises do.
$60 per employee per day on food?! You could give everyone a bottle of Veuve Clicquot and a fillet steak every day for that.
That's not TOO far an exaggeration from reality
Where did you find $16 per employee for Google? I'd like to read more about this.
Plus crew...
That food all looks significantly nicer than what I got on the last cruise...
(not complaining - food was fine - just noticeable).
(not complaining - food was fine - just noticeable).
I have been on a Royal Caribbean cruise and I did a tour of the galley (kitchens). I was thoroughly impressed with the quality of the food, I cook a lot and get pretty fancy with my dishes and the food on the R.C. cruise was above my expectations.
Which cruise line did you go on? I've stopped going on Carnival because the food is worse than it was 10 years ago. This video was Royal Caribbean, which I think is still great!
MSC in the med.
Think the issue in part is that you can't exactly go hungry. So there is a peasant tier buffet included.
It's fine...just a "lots of pasta & skimped on meat" type vibe
Think the issue in part is that you can't exactly go hungry. So there is a peasant tier buffet included.
It's fine...just a "lots of pasta & skimped on meat" type vibe
I've been on Royal Caribbean multiple times and the food is very good.
Munchies have two good videos about cooking food for the marines on a US Navy ship
"Cooking Breakfast for 1,500 on a US Navy Ship" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywZevdHW5bQ
"24 Hours as a Navy Ship Line Cook" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFh6bJIHl2Y
"Cooking Breakfast for 1,500 on a US Navy Ship" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywZevdHW5bQ
"24 Hours as a Navy Ship Line Cook" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFh6bJIHl2Y
One of the things I've always wondered about, but probably falls into the category of military secrets, is exactly what the manifest looks like for food on a patrol of a Ohio class submarine.
There must be spreadsheets somewhere with all of the ingredients broken down, costs, quantities, and probably cubic volume occupied (since freezer space and food storage space is somewhat at a premium).
There must be spreadsheets somewhere with all of the ingredients broken down, costs, quantities, and probably cubic volume occupied (since freezer space and food storage space is somewhat at a premium).
Whats the doc of the launching of the UK aircraft carrier. They have some info on that.
A lot of the docs on large naval ships cover this - modern marvels has a good episode on it too.
A lot of the docs on large naval ships cover this - modern marvels has a good episode on it too.
No idea but my guess would be that they all just eat MRE? Least space needed for sure.
They eat a lot better than that
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2003-jan-18-fi-subma...
Submariners are generally reputed to have the best food in the navy for any navy that has a submarine fleet. Presumably because everything else about being on a submarine is so shitty, it's the least they can do to boost moral.
Apparently this isn't restricted to the modern era either, I've read that the german u-boat fleets of the world wars had the best food in their military too.
Apparently this isn't restricted to the modern era either, I've read that the german u-boat fleets of the world wars had the best food in their military too.
US submarines also got AC when fire control computers were installed in WW2. (The space for the computer room was subtracted from the bunk area.)
German uboat staff were treated like heroes in Germany, but that was partly their success in nearly amputating Britain from her colonies, and partly from boosterism by Admiral Karl Donitz.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_D%C3%B6nitz
IIRC, he said he'd win against Britain with 300 subs, but initially only got about 100.
German uboat staff were treated like heroes in Germany, but that was partly their success in nearly amputating Britain from her colonies, and partly from boosterism by Admiral Karl Donitz.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_D%C3%B6nitz
IIRC, he said he'd win against Britain with 300 subs, but initially only got about 100.
Incorrect.
Morale is a huge issue on boomers and subs, which patrol for months at a stretch, generally submerged the entire time (the whole idea being for your adversary to not know where you are). Crap food on top of the isolation and lack of outdoor exposure fares poorly (so to speak).
Fresh produce is limited to the first week or so of cruise AFAIU, but preserved/frozen and dry goods are available for the duration. I don't know if there's any fresh-grow possible, though there've been experiments.
(General information, no direct experience.)
Some sources:
"Everything you wanted to know about food on a US submarine" https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a147643...
"Sub Grub Is Navy’s Five-Star Secret" (2003) https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2003-jan-18-fi-subma...
"US navy researchers conduct tests to grow vegetables on submarines" (2016) https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/06/vegetable-ga...
Morale is a huge issue on boomers and subs, which patrol for months at a stretch, generally submerged the entire time (the whole idea being for your adversary to not know where you are). Crap food on top of the isolation and lack of outdoor exposure fares poorly (so to speak).
Fresh produce is limited to the first week or so of cruise AFAIU, but preserved/frozen and dry goods are available for the duration. I don't know if there's any fresh-grow possible, though there've been experiments.
(General information, no direct experience.)
Some sources:
"Everything you wanted to know about food on a US submarine" https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a147643...
"Sub Grub Is Navy’s Five-Star Secret" (2003) https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2003-jan-18-fi-subma...
"US navy researchers conduct tests to grow vegetables on submarines" (2016) https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/06/vegetable-ga...
Microgreens seem like they'd be great for submarines: cheap power and water are all thats needed to 'unzip' compact seeds into nutritional food. As a happy byproduct, photosynthesis would scrub a little bit of CO2.
Sprouts and the like occurred to me, and have been used by some sailors / rowers on long voyages.
For submarine crew, the balance between "eating home food" vs. "nutritional sufficiency" may swing the balance, though I'd argue that something (sprouts) is better than nothing (frozen / canned vegetables).
Crops which could be grown in conditions in which power is abundant (nukes!) as is water, and atmosphere could be controlled (high CO2 via redirected scrubbers), but space is highly constrained, becomes an interesting question. Probably not trellis or tree crops, though lettuce/greens, carrots, possibly cruciferous vegetables and onions, possibly.
How much use of fermented vegetables is made would be another interesting question.
For submarine crew, the balance between "eating home food" vs. "nutritional sufficiency" may swing the balance, though I'd argue that something (sprouts) is better than nothing (frozen / canned vegetables).
Crops which could be grown in conditions in which power is abundant (nukes!) as is water, and atmosphere could be controlled (high CO2 via redirected scrubbers), but space is highly constrained, becomes an interesting question. Probably not trellis or tree crops, though lettuce/greens, carrots, possibly cruciferous vegetables and onions, possibly.
How much use of fermented vegetables is made would be another interesting question.
From the latimes article: "“We had three things going for us: The quality of food and the amount that was served. The music on board. And the reading materials."
I can't tell if "reading materials" is a euphemism for pornography or not but I'm guessing probably.
That's an interesting article though, I never thought about it before.
I can't tell if "reading materials" is a euphemism for pornography or not but I'm guessing probably.
That's an interesting article though, I never thought about it before.
Subs also get food delivered from other ships.
USN subs? Subs generally never want to reveal their position, and only surface when absolutely necessary.
I'm not a submariner so I have no idea how regularly at-sea resupply happens, but the USN does maintain a small submarine tender fleet - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emory_S._Land-class_submarine_...
Yes, and they're ancient; commissioned closer to WW2 than to today. They're basic use is to head to a port, and provide services to submarines in the area. I don't believe they have any capability to provide re-supply at sea, especially munitions like torpedoes and missiles which are large, heavy, and difficult to transfer in anything less than a perfectly smooth sea state.
Citation requested.
If you’re into food docs like this I would recommend Munchies: A Frank Experience. Highly entertaining.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/04/business/carnival-cruise-...
I'd love to see this industry reformed.
I'd love to see this industry reformed.
Thats not even the first fine they received. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival_Cruise_Line#Controver...
Cruise ships can also avoid having to report or even really investigate cruise ship deaths or disappearances. Ken Carver is one of the only people on the planet currently pushing to investigate and hold cruise companies accountable for deaths and missing persons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLgc1dqhCsQ
https://www.cruiseshipdeaths.com/
Cruise ships can also avoid having to report or even really investigate cruise ship deaths or disappearances. Ken Carver is one of the only people on the planet currently pushing to investigate and hold cruise companies accountable for deaths and missing persons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLgc1dqhCsQ
https://www.cruiseshipdeaths.com/
Yes, because they operate on dubious laws under small countries flags, it is ridiculous that nothing is being done about it.
Court should suspend their operations for 5-10 years. That’s effectively what we do to humans.
JabavuAdams(2)
What a seemingly impressive operations. If only our dev process had Its shit together half as well.
You don't want that. Your devs are allowed to take a day off every month or so.
The video says that's for 4 month contracts though. I've been on deadline crunches where the last 4 months of a 24 month contract were like that.
Give it a few years, very soon software development may just as well become a blue collar trade with teams of line cooks supporting one chef.
So, like a "surgical team"? Fred Brooks proposed that 45 years ago, and I still don't see any evidence that anyone is moving in that direction.
Everyone I know says that all programmers and managers need to read TMMM, but any time I've brought up any part of that book other than Brooks's Law, I've been immediately shot down. According to every coworker and manager I've had, this book is a classic of the field -- yet apparently has all of one useful sentence between its covers.
Everyone I know says that all programmers and managers need to read TMMM, but any time I've brought up any part of that book other than Brooks's Law, I've been immediately shot down. According to every coworker and manager I've had, this book is a classic of the field -- yet apparently has all of one useful sentence between its covers.
I practice surgical teams because of TMMM.
"Classic:" A book that many want to have read, but few want to read.
Well we have pair programming now, but unfortunately that has all the problems of two surgeons with none of the benefits of complimentary skills.
For a while I was paring with someone where we did take on more of a surgical team model that worked quite well. The other guy was the c++ and domain expert cranking out code and I was the unix, git, etc expert and acting as the toolmaker and "magic spell" provider.
That said, in a real surgical team some of members make considerably more money than the others so I doubt we'll see it take off in our industry.
For a while I was paring with someone where we did take on more of a surgical team model that worked quite well. The other guy was the c++ and domain expert cranking out code and I was the unix, git, etc expert and acting as the toolmaker and "magic spell" provider.
That said, in a real surgical team some of members make considerably more money than the others so I doubt we'll see it take off in our industry.
> That said, in a real surgical team some of members make considerably more money than the others
Is that not already the case with software development teams?
Is that not already the case with software development teams?
Outside of unusual scenarios the pay ratio between the best paid member of a software team and the worst paid member probably caps out at around 4x, whereas on a surgery team it's probably more like 10x.
My ex colleagues who landed at Pivotal when we parted ways years ago described it as a sweatshop with rigid 9-5 hours and pair programming, that it was very much aggressively pushing in the blue-collar meets software development direction.
That’s essentially the “meta-programming” methodology Charles Simonyi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Simonyi) promulgated at Xerox PARC and Microsoft back in the ‘70s and ‘80s.