ICE Confirms New Foreign Students Can't Take Online-Only Course Loads in the US(npr.org)
npr.org
ICE Confirms New Foreign Students Can't Take Online-Only Course Loads in the US
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/07/24/895223219/ice-confirms-new-foreign-students-cant-take-online-only-course-loads-in-the-u-s
103 comments
It's really hard to make good games without your primary purpose being that they're fun. When you make a game and it's main purpose is educational, it won't be fun and nobody will want to play it.
This is not about making a game out of education. It is about taking the multi-user, remote / virtual interface and using that infrastructure to support the online delivery of content. If Harvard bought a game company they would have that infrastructure.
It is possible to build it, of course. The problem I see with that method is you risk confusing the goal by focusing on the educational aspect too early on. What a persisting educational enterprise needs is scalability / and sustainability.
Take for instance Call of Duty Mobile, it is fairly easy with a little dedication to achieve LEGENDARY status in the Battle Royale mode each season. Such an effort requires focus, skill and dedication. What if Harvard had a mode beyond Legendary, where you had to train / skill-up in actual real world knowledge? Then as you achieved those rankings, you would get bonus / rewards.
I could envision a Chemistry track that took you through enough basics that you could solve in game problems. The same for Physics, Electronics and of course the easiest since it is already virtual, Computer Science / Programming.
The infrastructure is the hardest part. Adding the educational tracks is easy as it can evolve overtime.
It is possible to build it, of course. The problem I see with that method is you risk confusing the goal by focusing on the educational aspect too early on. What a persisting educational enterprise needs is scalability / and sustainability.
Take for instance Call of Duty Mobile, it is fairly easy with a little dedication to achieve LEGENDARY status in the Battle Royale mode each season. Such an effort requires focus, skill and dedication. What if Harvard had a mode beyond Legendary, where you had to train / skill-up in actual real world knowledge? Then as you achieved those rankings, you would get bonus / rewards.
I could envision a Chemistry track that took you through enough basics that you could solve in game problems. The same for Physics, Electronics and of course the easiest since it is already virtual, Computer Science / Programming.
The infrastructure is the hardest part. Adding the educational tracks is easy as it can evolve overtime.
What about something like Kerbal Space Program? Orbital mechanics can get pretty dry, but a game like that can allow us to “play” with concepts and build intuition that we would otherwise have to do problem sets ad nauseum.
Ah yes that is a good one. Maybe it's just rare to make a good game that's also educational. Then again KSP is more fun than educational I think. Or at least, rocket space flight stuff is already such a fun topic to learn about.
While this is clearly xenophobic and just plain awful, it seems like the most sensible workaround for this is for universities to offer very small (4 students or less per session) in-person classes specifically for their new international students. This could work essentially like office hours with faculty leading small group discussions to help acclimate international students to their new lives abroad. I can imagine anyone moving to the US in the year 2020 (the peak of our crazy) could use some emotional support.
What about students from countries whose time zone is 12 hours different? They can watch lecture recordings, sure, but miss out on asking live questions or participating in discussion groups with other students unless they stay up through the night.
Man, going after students is so petty that it is only explained by xenophobia.
This isn't xenophobia, it's just understanding what these visas are for. The purpose of a student visa is that you need to be in the country in order to attend the school. If that's not the case, if you are not going to actually be on the campus, then it makes no sense to demand a student visa.
When this crisis is over, and students actually need to show up to the campus, then the student visa will make sense again.
When this crisis is over, and students actually need to show up to the campus, then the student visa will make sense again.
Cool so what's going to happen after these admitted students do their year or two of online coursework remotely and then need to come to the US to finish in person classes? Are they just fucked if they aren't granted a visa?
The reasonable thing to do if immigration bans are absolutely necessary temporarily would be to issue admitted students visas now but block their use temporarily while instruction was purely online. This would remove the risk of foreign students spending tens of thousands on a program only to be forced to transfer if they can't get a visa later. Of course, the real purpose of this (along with the green card ban, h-1b bans, previous attempts at booting students out, etc) is to be deliberately unreasonable and hostile towards foreigners seeking to enter the US.
The reasonable thing to do if immigration bans are absolutely necessary temporarily would be to issue admitted students visas now but block their use temporarily while instruction was purely online. This would remove the risk of foreign students spending tens of thousands on a program only to be forced to transfer if they can't get a visa later. Of course, the real purpose of this (along with the green card ban, h-1b bans, previous attempts at booting students out, etc) is to be deliberately unreasonable and hostile towards foreigners seeking to enter the US.
Then they will no longer have a 100% online curriculum, making them eligible for the standard F-whatever visa.
The problem is that visas aren't guaranteed so it's very possible that someone could wind up half way through their college career and then not be able to get a visa.
This has been a very real issue ever since 2001. I studied in the US and tried to minimize the number of trips I took abroad because you just never know what could happen once you are outside the country.
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And it doesn't just apply to students. The US immigration system is a capricious beast for all.
I was a dependent on an H1B in 2006 when I accompanied my parents to a consulate (outside of the US) to extend the visa. The State Department placed a "security check" on my parents and we ended up living for months on vacation pay and credit cards, with electricity stolen from the nearest power line and no hot water until my mom started going to the consulate every morning to bother anyone within earshot. We had been in the US for over a decade at that point (getting PhDs, paying taxes, etc.) and just like that we almost had to abandon our entire life here - pets, friends, careers, and all.
The ultimate irony was that we couldn't get work permits as illegal immigrants in Mexico to carry us through the ordeal.
I was a dependent on an H1B in 2006 when I accompanied my parents to a consulate (outside of the US) to extend the visa. The State Department placed a "security check" on my parents and we ended up living for months on vacation pay and credit cards, with electricity stolen from the nearest power line and no hot water until my mom started going to the consulate every morning to bother anyone within earshot. We had been in the US for over a decade at that point (getting PhDs, paying taxes, etc.) and just like that we almost had to abandon our entire life here - pets, friends, careers, and all.
The ultimate irony was that we couldn't get work permits as illegal immigrants in Mexico to carry us through the ordeal.
Being eligible does not mean that you will get the visa, I had friends rejected even when they have secured a place in a college in USA.
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Online lectures in a lot of uni's will still happen in real time. Meaning that some students have to take classes at 3 AM. Being in the same time zone will still make a difference for a lot of them.
Lots of other countries in those timezones. Why go to NYC for online classes when you could be on some paradise island in the Caribbean?
Some reasons:
1. Not every foreign student can afford a "paradise" on a Caribbean island
2. Not every foreign student has fast, stable internet and reliable electricity for online classes
3. Most of the world doesn't enjoy the free passport access US citizens have to the rest of the world.
1. Not every foreign student can afford a "paradise" on a Caribbean island
2. Not every foreign student has fast, stable internet and reliable electricity for online classes
3. Most of the world doesn't enjoy the free passport access US citizens have to the rest of the world.
The US will suffer if its international students can't get an education here without being told by the government to pack up and head for their favorite Caribbean island because we don't value their desire to contribute to our society.
Leaving aside that you actually have to be able to get to and stay on that island, lots of students definitely need the structure of an on-campus life to keep them moving in the right direction. I absolutely did.
Many international students actually come from those paradise climes. It's not a big draw for them.
Some students are from an opposite time zone. Others don't even have a reliable network in their home country. Not allowing the students to come to the country hosting their courses is really silly.
I am sure the privileged kids willing and able to pay 150k USD for university education in US have a very reliable network at home.
The further you get in physical/geopolitical distance from the US the more you invalidate assumptions that many US sites and services make.
I've had sites fail because my local time can be one calendar day _ahead_ of theirs... and how could you be doing something in the future?
Once you get into regions with a combination of censorship on the foreign-side and aggressive 'security' measures on the US-side (blocking/triggering on IP ranges of entire countries, VPN services, could services, etc... 'cause why would a legit user be coming in through anything like that, right?) then it really gets rough.
Generally, to reliably serve a country/region it requires specific expertise, personnel and/or infrastructure.
And BTW when I priced out a "reliable" connection in Beijing years ago it was around $1K USD/mo for 10Mb. Not exactly peanuts.
I've had sites fail because my local time can be one calendar day _ahead_ of theirs... and how could you be doing something in the future?
Once you get into regions with a combination of censorship on the foreign-side and aggressive 'security' measures on the US-side (blocking/triggering on IP ranges of entire countries, VPN services, could services, etc... 'cause why would a legit user be coming in through anything like that, right?) then it really gets rough.
Generally, to reliably serve a country/region it requires specific expertise, personnel and/or infrastructure.
And BTW when I priced out a "reliable" connection in Beijing years ago it was around $1K USD/mo for 10Mb. Not exactly peanuts.
You severely misunderstand the realities of international students. You're making sweeping generalization about a lot of people you know nothing about.
Fyi, There are parts of the world where money can't buy you steady electricity, safety at home (an especially important point for women and LGBT), reliable internet access.
Fwiw, there are also scholarships.
Err... what about timezones and onsite networking? Internships?
Please take in count that nowadays the most important value universities provide is networking.
Please take in count that nowadays the most important value universities provide is networking.
The university I work for is unable to employ and pay students that are not in the country. As a result, training students online while they are outside of the country is not possible for graduate students that do not have families to support them.
This is especially ridiculous since the first one or two years of a PhD is mostly in class training.
Yes, this is xenophobia. The purpose of the visa is to train foreign students, without a visa, training cannot happen (except for the wealthy students).
Or spite. But in either case it seems unnecessarily cruel and ultimately a mistake.
What I'm seeing besides xenophobia is the old protectionist argument (our country-men are being laid off by companies each day and you dare bring foreigners here!). Its a very old argument but still works for those willing to buy it.
Buy it? It does not even need to be pitched because it's true. When American's are struggling to put food on the table it's time to cut all foreign funding.
This isn't "foreign funding." In fact, these students are injecting capital into this country.
And eventually some/many will remain in this country as ostensibly well educated new Americans.
And eventually some/many will remain in this country as ostensibly well educated new Americans.
The foreign students are paying full retail price for school. When they return for in person classes they will go back to spending a lot of money in their schools' local economies. Please explain how increasing spending in America harms job growth in America.
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I'm a xenophilic restrictionist.
Open borders or xenophobia is a false binary.
Open borders or xenophobia is a false binary.
Not much different than what’s happening in Canada.
Can they even do this? I mean legally, I understand that practically they'll get away with much more than what's allowed by law. I don't get why an enforcement agency should have any say with regards to what's legal and what isn't.
Out-of-state students on F1 visa (be graduate or undergraduate) generally have to abide by certain academic requirements to maintain legal stay.
Historically, for the graduate student subset, a course load of 6 credit hours has always been the minimum requirement for face2face lectures in any particular semester. Under very specific circumstances (read: literally one course to graduation or similar) will the DSOs of their school mention the case on their SEVIS records and allow them to continue. Arguments can be made against the morality of not allowing students with improper internet access to come in. But don't let armchair experts lead you to believe it wasn't always this way. Because it was.
Historically, for the graduate student subset, a course load of 6 credit hours has always been the minimum requirement for face2face lectures in any particular semester. Under very specific circumstances (read: literally one course to graduation or similar) will the DSOs of their school mention the case on their SEVIS records and allow them to continue. Arguments can be made against the morality of not allowing students with improper internet access to come in. But don't let armchair experts lead you to believe it wasn't always this way. Because it was.
Well, that could lead to people claiming that they do not have proper internet access, even they had, just to be back at US.
Still, I feel like this is not a good thing to do, people are there to study and losing bright minds like these should harm US a lot.
Still, I feel like this is not a good thing to do, people are there to study and losing bright minds like these should harm US a lot.
The law, as I understand it, already seems to state that online-only programs do not qualify as a sufficient basis for a student visa. The authorities had previously stated they would ignore this due to the pandemic forcing many students towards online-only programs. Naturally, the legislation didn't foresee something like this pandemic.
Congress, when passing a law, can't anticipate and prescribe what to do in every possible case or scenario. That implementation detail is the role of the executive branch, with oversight by the courts. That's already played out with the successful litigation on the original blanket ban by MIT and Harvard. Of course Congress can always step in and explicitly amend the law, or refuse to fund the executive's implementation.
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That does makes sense. It was shortsighted to ask students who are already in US to leave. But isn't it better to minimize international travel and foreigners into US (or any country) at this stage?
Even though this reeks of prejudice, ICE is not entirely in the wrong on this one imo.
Even though this reeks of prejudice, ICE is not entirely in the wrong on this one imo.
This is not pure travel, but tilts to residence. So if someone stays the whole year - verification can take longer. The USA was always built on attracting smart, brilliant, ambitious people. Those who bans them now, are using the wealth the previous generations, created in this way that is now blocked. They are cutting the resource from their future generations. But this is good news to the rest of the world - other countries will benefit.
You can do quarantine to control the epidemic, like China does.
Doesn't make much sense to me from a financial standpoint. The prospective students got the visa, they will be attending online classes from within US when they go there, and will pay international tuition. You don't want their money?
I believe that it was more a public health decision. But if they decided instead systematic PCR tests and 15 days quarantines for the entrants there should be actually not much any problem...
ICE membership in this case should be grounds for deportation
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The WH is finally getting to its main goal, reducing immigration overall. They were shy about it and started with illegal immigration but really they want to stop all immigration. Wonder if the family green card processing is already stopped.
My interpretation was that they're trying to force universities to hold physical classes in some capacity or face losing foreign students.
My prediction is this is the first step towards kicking out Chinese students, which are increasingly viewed as spies/national security risks. Students from Brazil, France, Kenya, etc will be invited back soon enough.
I'm not sure why you're being downvoted, this is a reasonable interpretation that matches what the universities themselves claimed:
> The universities said in their court challenge to the latest policy that “by all appearances,” the government’s attempt to force international students to study on campus had also been a political move, calculated to advance the Trump administration’s agenda to force universities to reopen their gates with in-person classes.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/us/coronavirus-internatio...
Of course the fact that this hurts immigrants is icing on the cake to the administration, but it seems like the primary goal of this was to use international student revenue as leverage to force universities to open.
> The universities said in their court challenge to the latest policy that “by all appearances,” the government’s attempt to force international students to study on campus had also been a political move, calculated to advance the Trump administration’s agenda to force universities to reopen their gates with in-person classes.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/us/coronavirus-internatio...
Of course the fact that this hurts immigrants is icing on the cake to the administration, but it seems like the primary goal of this was to use international student revenue as leverage to force universities to open.
Yeah, which is contrary to elementary lockdown advises to fight the covid... Purely virtual education, for the time being, is the best solution.
(virtual, but nonetheless the student living in the same country as where the live lectures are being held, for the reasons I detailed in my other comments)
(virtual, but nonetheless the student living in the same country as where the live lectures are being held, for the reasons I detailed in my other comments)
F1 (student) are strictly non-immigrant visas.
F1 is how many H1B students (such as myself) started on our road to becoming an immigrant.
A large part of the appeal of an expensive USA graduate course is that it allows you a way to get a job in the USA after.
It works like this in tech. 1) Do a masters or > 1 year course in a relevant field. 2) after the course you have 1-3 years of occupational practical training in that field. This means you can apply and accept any relevant job without waiting for a h1b or anything like that.
Then from there you get your company to apply for a h1b and then convert to a greencard. Then from greencard you go to citizenship. This was my path.
Pressure on universities like this discourages foreign students from enrolling and hence stops or slows this processes.
A large part of the appeal of an expensive USA graduate course is that it allows you a way to get a job in the USA after.
It works like this in tech. 1) Do a masters or > 1 year course in a relevant field. 2) after the course you have 1-3 years of occupational practical training in that field. This means you can apply and accept any relevant job without waiting for a h1b or anything like that.
Then from there you get your company to apply for a h1b and then convert to a greencard. Then from greencard you go to citizenship. This was my path.
Pressure on universities like this discourages foreign students from enrolling and hence stops or slows this processes.
H1B are limited and this doesn't let you skip any lines so doubt it will have much of an effect on net immigration. Other than the very few (well maybe it's common, no idea) people who might get married or qualify for an O-1 and some other more esoteric categories as a student
Now I do agree that it might discourage some high quality people from going that route, but that's another story.
Now I do agree that it might discourage some high quality people from going that route, but that's another story.
It’s not about skipping lines. A tech master’s degree allows you to get a job prior to them applying for a h1b via the OPT program. Without that most companies that don’t have overseas offices won’t hire you if you are from countries like India or China.
I think these days a masters in CS or a related field allows you up to 3 years of OPT. I.e multiple chances to apply for a H1B visa while working legally in the USA.
For more context: Currently theirs about 1 million f1 students in the USA and about ~500k h1b holders. Roughly 223k applied and got OPT in 2019. More figures can be found here:
https://www.cato.org/blog/facts-about-optional-practical-tra...
I think these days a masters in CS or a related field allows you up to 3 years of OPT. I.e multiple chances to apply for a H1B visa while working legally in the USA.
For more context: Currently theirs about 1 million f1 students in the USA and about ~500k h1b holders. Roughly 223k applied and got OPT in 2019. More figures can be found here:
https://www.cato.org/blog/facts-about-optional-practical-tra...
Right, but correct me if I'm wrong, your H1B will still be subject to the same H1B limit. And given there are many more people applying than the limit allows for how could it result in less net immigration via H1B?
Correct. However many companies will hire someone on a OPT and then apply for a H1B. If you don’t have OPT they probably won’t go through the hassle of sponsoring you for a visa if they want you in a US office.
3 years of OPT gives a companies lawyers plenty of chances to apply, get rejected and then reapply. This is the case with my company right now. I.e the first step in our hiring processes is asking if you are authorized to work in the USA? A no answer equals likely rejection.
OPT increases the probability that you will be able to get a h1b.
If you reduce the number of students you narrow the funnel.
3 years of OPT gives a companies lawyers plenty of chances to apply, get rejected and then reapply. This is the case with my company right now. I.e the first step in our hiring processes is asking if you are authorized to work in the USA? A no answer equals likely rejection.
OPT increases the probability that you will be able to get a h1b.
If you reduce the number of students you narrow the funnel.
As an individual your chances are no doubt increased. But at a 65,000 + 20,000 H1B quota that is oversubscribed about 1 to 3 it's hard to imagine a situation where it somehow doesn't get exhausted.
Over 2/3 of H1B applicants would have to be OPT extension recipients AND you'd have to assume there is no hidden demand that would resurface given a drop in applicants.
Over 2/3 of H1B applicants would have to be OPT extension recipients AND you'd have to assume there is no hidden demand that would resurface given a drop in applicants.
Okay, given that the original comment that prompted this thread was:
“ The WH is finally getting to its main goal, reducing immigration overall.”
Do you agree or disagree that discouraging foreign students will have an impact (even a small one) on immigration? It seems like it will.
“ The WH is finally getting to its main goal, reducing immigration overall.”
Do you agree or disagree that discouraging foreign students will have an impact (even a small one) on immigration? It seems like it will.
Well via different categories by happenstance perhaps, which is why I mentioned marriage. But then again people on tourist visas do that too, probably in bigger numbers. And tourists from most places can't visit right now either.
Most pathways to immigrate to America are either capped, backlogged or hard enough that there isn't a ton of people using them.
If this was a strategic move by the WH rather than just ICE interpreting rules, I'd be much more willing to believe this is an action targeted at China given how many foreign students are Chinese. Or as someone else noted, a way to pressure schools to open up.
Most pathways to immigrate to America are either capped, backlogged or hard enough that there isn't a ton of people using them.
If this was a strategic move by the WH rather than just ICE interpreting rules, I'd be much more willing to believe this is an action targeted at China given how many foreign students are Chinese. Or as someone else noted, a way to pressure schools to open up.
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Wait, what is a non-immigrant visa?
A visa that grants entry for some purpose on a temporary basis. As opposed to immigrant visas that can be converted to a green card.
After your study is over you're supposed to go home [0]. Generally when applying for a non-immigrant visa you want to show that you have a good reason to go back home. Otherwise you'll probably be denied.
Say I had an F1 and now it's long expired. Have a standard B1/B2 now. If I wish to immigrate to the US this doesn't help me in any way. Other than just being in good standing with them I guess.
[0] or you could get some other visa, but if you're coming in with this intent from the get go this is potentially problematic
After your study is over you're supposed to go home [0]. Generally when applying for a non-immigrant visa you want to show that you have a good reason to go back home. Otherwise you'll probably be denied.
Say I had an F1 and now it's long expired. Have a standard B1/B2 now. If I wish to immigrate to the US this doesn't help me in any way. Other than just being in good standing with them I guess.
[0] or you could get some other visa, but if you're coming in with this intent from the get go this is potentially problematic
I assume it is a visa that does not qualify one for naturalization after X years.
You are not expected to stay after the visa expires.
This definition is inaccurate.
Let me elaborate. No matter what type of visa you have, if you overstay, you will be out of status.
The difference between these visa types is that one can be used to apply for a change of status to permanent resident (green card) and the other does not.
If you want to get a green card and you have a non-immigrant visa, you have to apply to an immigrant visa first. There are exceptions but for temporary workers this is the case.
The difference between these visa types is that one can be used to apply for a change of status to permanent resident (green card) and the other does not.
If you want to get a green card and you have a non-immigrant visa, you have to apply to an immigrant visa first. There are exceptions but for temporary workers this is the case.
you can really hate Trump because of its views and manners but one thing is for certain: he was always honest about what he would do when in office and he is pursuing that relentlessly.
wohld be nice to have a more centric candidate who would have this persistance and 'idgaf, attitude.
but you probably need to be a psychopat to pull that off
wohld be nice to have a more centric candidate who would have this persistance and 'idgaf, attitude.
but you probably need to be a psychopat to pull that off
Honest about what he would do?
- Build the wall: almost no new wall has actually been built
- Drain the swamp: puts friends and family members in positions of power or influence, gives get-out-of-jail cards to convicted loyal friends, literally spends millions of government dollars to vacation and golf at his own resorts
- Other random things he said early on: peace in the Middle East will be easy (lol), get rid of Obamacare but offer a better alternative (gets rid of provisions during the pandemic)
- the list goes on and on
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I agree. He was honest. Where he wasn't honest was in admiring that many U.S. interventions he continues create the very same immigrants he wants to stop coming in.
As an European looking at the U.S., it isn't really a desirable place to be anymore, if it ever was. No universal healthcare during a pandemic? not wearing masks being considered cool & edgy?, sky high cost of living and even being treated with suspicion and the feeling that I am somehow not thankful enough to be in a COVID hotspot, while trying to not ever meet any law enforcement as the chances of surviving even a speeding ticket encounter are nowhere near as high as they are elsewhere in the world?
Doesn't sound too appealing, unless in a really desperate situation. The U.S. relied on soft power, (Hollywood), for decades to sell a manufactured image of how great it is, but with increased information sharing, I suspect this image is being eroded.
As an European looking at the U.S., it isn't really a desirable place to be anymore, if it ever was. No universal healthcare during a pandemic? not wearing masks being considered cool & edgy?, sky high cost of living and even being treated with suspicion and the feeling that I am somehow not thankful enough to be in a COVID hotspot, while trying to not ever meet any law enforcement as the chances of surviving even a speeding ticket encounter are nowhere near as high as they are elsewhere in the world?
Doesn't sound too appealing, unless in a really desperate situation. The U.S. relied on soft power, (Hollywood), for decades to sell a manufactured image of how great it is, but with increased information sharing, I suspect this image is being eroded.
Not to mention being white in tech over there is likely to be a headache
>wohld be nice to have a more centric candidate who would have this persistance and 'idgaf, attitude.
Not really. This sort of Caesarism and strongman attitude is a disease. Fucntioning governments and societies rest on pluralism and compromise between institutions, not on someone at the top "not giving a fuck".
This desire for "not giving a fuck" is at its core a childish attitude that's rooted in people not being able to live with the tension that occurs when diverse interests need to be taken into account.
It's usually combined with Machismo and it's pretty much what many Latin American countries perpetually suffer from.
Not really. This sort of Caesarism and strongman attitude is a disease. Fucntioning governments and societies rest on pluralism and compromise between institutions, not on someone at the top "not giving a fuck".
This desire for "not giving a fuck" is at its core a childish attitude that's rooted in people not being able to live with the tension that occurs when diverse interests need to be taken into account.
It's usually combined with Machismo and it's pretty much what many Latin American countries perpetually suffer from.
There isn't really such a thing as 'idgaf' centrism though, centrism is about balance and carefully treading a path that meets some of the desires of all sides, while at the same time not going 'far enough' by making compromises.
An 'idgaf' attitude is extremist by its very nature.
An 'idgaf' attitude is extremist by its very nature.
They could not give a fuck about the compromises being made.
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What has he done against the deep state?
This is good news. Along with cutting the scam H1B visas.
Stopping the influx of travelers is just stupid. People "are" money. They spend that money where they are. If they are not here, then they are spending their money elsewhere.
This is just stupid. It makes 0 sense.
Education is not just watching someone explain to you what you are trying to learn. It's much more interactive and social.
If online courses can on their own be a substitute for the complete experience, then we actually don't need online courses: Just read a book and you can be brain surgeon.
Education is not just watching someone explain to you what you are trying to learn. It's much more interactive and social.
If online courses can on their own be a substitute for the complete experience, then we actually don't need online courses: Just read a book and you can be brain surgeon.
>>Education is not just watching someone explain to you what you are trying to learn. It's much more interactive and social.
Interact with the monitor...you realize that these schools will be closed, right, and all courses will be online?
Interact with the monitor...you realize that these schools will be closed, right, and all courses will be online?
When did hacker news become so superficial. Us intelligence networks rely on surveillance done in University to prevent spying..since these students are no longer under surveillance intelligence operators are helpless to investigate them . This is actually about national security
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My understanding is that this is the same rules that have already existed. He’s just not changing them for COVID.
I get that refusing to change rules is a bad thing, but it’s not the same thing as “implementing a policy.”
I get that refusing to change rules is a bad thing, but it’s not the same thing as “implementing a policy.”
Isn't ICE, in theory correct? You come to USA to study. If your course is 100% online, why do you need to come? And why would you come...
(I know that Trump admin is not immigration friendly, but that's a different debate)
(I know that Trump admin is not immigration friendly, but that's a different debate)
Ever taken a lecture at 3am? This is going to put international students at a severe disadvantage.
One would kind of hope that universities by now have gotten past live lecture attendance being necessary for remote learning... Guess that's a bit optimistic though.
For reference, the University of Illinois CS department, which has a significant number of international students, is having synchronous online lectures for 95% of the courses offered this semester. If you were in India/China, you would be watching 3am lectures, taking exams in the middle of the night, etc.
He extended stem educational visas
[1]: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/28/harvards-endowment-is-worth-...