Ask HN: How did an adult ADHD diagnosis help you?
400 comments
Anyone reading this should be extremely skeptical of internet strangers recommending drugs that gave them "superpowers", changed their life, etc. Taking these drugs will make anyone feel more focused, motivated, etc because these drugs are strong stimulants that cause euphoria, focus, and bursts of energy.
Anecdotally, I've seen a huge uptick in posts of the format "how an ADHD diagnosis changed my life" on Reddit, TikTok, HN, etc. Talk to your doctor about your issues and concerns but don't forget the incentives of pharma companies to push these drugs on as many people as possible.
Anecdotally, I've seen a huge uptick in posts of the format "how an ADHD diagnosis changed my life" on Reddit, TikTok, HN, etc. Talk to your doctor about your issues and concerns but don't forget the incentives of pharma companies to push these drugs on as many people as possible.
Everything you’ve said is correct, but please don’t demonize a medication that I depend on to be functional. ADHD is a disability, there’s more nuance to this than black-and-white.
I was blown off by doctors for years when I was seeking a diagnostics because I was a successful person, but make no mistake: I was suffering. I am a textbook case. The stigma around this disorder is pervasive and it’s extremely easy to reinforce that stigma.
Stimulant medication doesn’t give me superpowers, it improves symptoms. I still have all the problems that come with ADHD, just... less.
Google is failing me, but a study a few years ago indicated that stimulants do not have a meaningful impact on the output of those who do not have ADHD. People often think they do because of the euphoria effect, but the euphoria is actually a transient side effect.
Stimulants should be paired with therapy, to better understand the nature of the disorder and developer additional coping tool.
(I’ve been on stimulant medication to treat ADHD for about half a decade. I was diagnosed well into adulthood.)
I was blown off by doctors for years when I was seeking a diagnostics because I was a successful person, but make no mistake: I was suffering. I am a textbook case. The stigma around this disorder is pervasive and it’s extremely easy to reinforce that stigma.
Stimulant medication doesn’t give me superpowers, it improves symptoms. I still have all the problems that come with ADHD, just... less.
Google is failing me, but a study a few years ago indicated that stimulants do not have a meaningful impact on the output of those who do not have ADHD. People often think they do because of the euphoria effect, but the euphoria is actually a transient side effect.
Stimulants should be paired with therapy, to better understand the nature of the disorder and developer additional coping tool.
(I’ve been on stimulant medication to treat ADHD for about half a decade. I was diagnosed well into adulthood.)
My story is the same, blown off by doctors for years because, I don't know, but not being "too successful" was definitely part of it.
Lead to a burnout-like state that started developing while basically being a stay-at-home dad for a year or so. It got worse, and now there are several years of my daughter growing up that I don't remember almost anything from.
Lead to a burnout-like state that started developing while basically being a stay-at-home dad for a year or so. It got worse, and now there are several years of my daughter growing up that I don't remember almost anything from.
ADHD is not a disability. It's an evolutionary set of traits. It is covered under the Big Five.
I would argue that ADHD presents as a disability in a post-industrial society. ADHD Institute suggests that the diagnosis is commonly associated with substance abuse, major depression and a wide range of other conditions, in higher frequency than baseline populations[0]
[0]: https://adhd-institute.com/burden-of-adhd/comorbidities/
[0]: https://adhd-institute.com/burden-of-adhd/comorbidities/
In Sweden at least it is classified as a disability, because whether or not it's a evolutionary adaptation, people that present typical ADHD traits are functionally disabled in modern society. Society should change to accommodate these traits, but we can't expect people with those traits to live in misery until then.
Yeah not to sound like a "deep" 15 year old but I think being able to function in our modern society is much more unnatural than the behaviors associated with ADHD. But since is the society we're in, having it really is a disability.
TL;DR: "we live in a society"
TL;DR: "we live in a society"
As what, lack of conscientiousness?
When you've grown up with executive dysfunction and excessive difficulty regulating emotion, the ability to choose to sit down and do a task that doesn't grab your attention sure FEELS like a superpower, but all it's doing is effectively medicating your condition.
The best parallel I can think of is that getting effective medication for ADHD is like getting glasses. Suddenly a part of your life that doesn't work (and maybe has never worked) is suddenly functional. People tend to be pretty excited about their glasses when they first get them, too.
The best parallel I can think of is that getting effective medication for ADHD is like getting glasses. Suddenly a part of your life that doesn't work (and maybe has never worked) is suddenly functional. People tend to be pretty excited about their glasses when they first get them, too.
I would definitely say that glasses are a great comparison.
I recommend discarding any anecdotes from people who recently started taking stimulants like Adderall, Vyvanse, or Ritalin. The parent comment is correct in that early stimulant usage is associated with euphoria and motivation that do not last.
If someone describes Adderall like the magic drug that Bradley Cooper takes in the movie Limitless, they probably haven't been taking it very long. Tolerance quickly builds to those effects.
People who have been taking Adderall since childhood or for a decade of adult life tend to have more mixed reviews. That's not to say it doesn't have a place in treatment of life-impacting ADHD disorders, but it should be noted that it's not a miracle drug that automatically turns you into a motivated, organized person. Even patients who take stimulants must make an effort to build good time management habits and self-discipline. Those who rely too heavily on the motivating effects of stimulant drugs can end up worse off when they inevitably build tolerance to the euphoric effects and still haven't learned how to manage their ADHD.
I've also noticed a huge uptick in ADHD misinformation in the form of overly broad diagnostic criteria. If you see infographics that describe ADHD symptoms as common behaviors like "have trouble remembering names of new people" or "I sometimes forget to do all of my tasks" then it's likely junk science. Don't confuse normal human behaviors for ADHD. ADHD is something far more debilitating.
If someone describes Adderall like the magic drug that Bradley Cooper takes in the movie Limitless, they probably haven't been taking it very long. Tolerance quickly builds to those effects.
People who have been taking Adderall since childhood or for a decade of adult life tend to have more mixed reviews. That's not to say it doesn't have a place in treatment of life-impacting ADHD disorders, but it should be noted that it's not a miracle drug that automatically turns you into a motivated, organized person. Even patients who take stimulants must make an effort to build good time management habits and self-discipline. Those who rely too heavily on the motivating effects of stimulant drugs can end up worse off when they inevitably build tolerance to the euphoric effects and still haven't learned how to manage their ADHD.
I've also noticed a huge uptick in ADHD misinformation in the form of overly broad diagnostic criteria. If you see infographics that describe ADHD symptoms as common behaviors like "have trouble remembering names of new people" or "I sometimes forget to do all of my tasks" then it's likely junk science. Don't confuse normal human behaviors for ADHD. ADHD is something far more debilitating.
> That's not to say it doesn't have a place in treatment of life-impacting ADHD disorders, but it should be noted that it's not a miracle drug that automatically turns you into a motivated, organized person.
For one person I know that is actually how it was. From unemployed and living at home to phd studies in mathematics and publishing in prestigious journals.
For one person I know that is actually how it was. From unemployed and living at home to phd studies in mathematics and publishing in prestigious journals.
Personally same order of magnitude improvement in terms of gap from worse to best. 10 years later also agree with OP but (long lasting delayed) medications have been 70% life changing, 20% maybe could have taken a day off, 10% “I drank a coffee too I’m jittery/euphoric/etc”.
A typical characteristic of people with ADHD is that typical doses of - say Ritalin - creates no euphoric effect at all.
Every adult I met that is "on" stimulants has echoed the sentiment that they don't understand why on earth anyone would take them recreationally. Ergo, they don't feel euphoria, because then it would certainly be obvious why.
If you get euphoria from those doses, well then what you suffer from is probably not typical ADHD.
Every adult I met that is "on" stimulants has echoed the sentiment that they don't understand why on earth anyone would take them recreationally. Ergo, they don't feel euphoria, because then it would certainly be obvious why.
If you get euphoria from those doses, well then what you suffer from is probably not typical ADHD.
People who take stimulants as prescribed for many years don’t understand the euphoric effects because they built a tolerance long ago. Their experience cannot be compared to someone just starting the medication.
The idea that ADHD medications do not cause euphoria in ADHD patients is a myth. It’s one of the reasons some practitioners are moving to titration schedules that start with low doses and move up over time.
The idea that ADHD medications do not cause euphoria in ADHD patients is a myth. It’s one of the reasons some practitioners are moving to titration schedules that start with low doses and move up over time.
As an adult-diagnosed ADHD person and someone who's taken Concerta (time-released ritalin) for about 12 years, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss a differing experience of stimulants as a myth. I had stopped taking it for about one year while I was undergoing chemotherapy, and recently started taking it again, so I have a pretty clear recollection of what it feels like to get started. No euphoria, but a feeling of mental fog clearing.
I've never experienced euphoria from stimulants, and I've always felt like I've processed caffeine differently than neurotypical individuals. I've spoken with several people with ADHD who have the same experience. Perhaps it's more accurate to say that not everyone feels euphoria from stimulants and there's some correlation between ADHD and stimulant non-euphoria.
I do agree with the titration schedule being a good idea. With any potentially mood-altering substance it seems wise to start slow. It gives time to gradually understand its effects (some good, some less so), and after some experimentation, I decided that a low dose was best for me to provide just enough of the "glasses for the brain" effect without otherwise affecting my mental state.
Anecdotal, perhaps. But enough anecdotes to point to some signal in the noise.
I've never experienced euphoria from stimulants, and I've always felt like I've processed caffeine differently than neurotypical individuals. I've spoken with several people with ADHD who have the same experience. Perhaps it's more accurate to say that not everyone feels euphoria from stimulants and there's some correlation between ADHD and stimulant non-euphoria.
I do agree with the titration schedule being a good idea. With any potentially mood-altering substance it seems wise to start slow. It gives time to gradually understand its effects (some good, some less so), and after some experimentation, I decided that a low dose was best for me to provide just enough of the "glasses for the brain" effect without otherwise affecting my mental state.
Anecdotal, perhaps. But enough anecdotes to point to some signal in the noise.
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Spot on. People treat medication like some free lunch without understanding they come with real and significant costs.
How long does someone have to be on stimulant medication before you consider them qualified to comment on its effectiveness?
You can comment anytime, but people who have been using it less than a decade won't be able to comment on the medications post-tolerence decrease in effectiveness and side effects.
If it takes a decade to build up tolerance and a month to completely get rid of it then sustainability seems clear, no? The problem isn't physical dependence but mental dependence, ADHD forces you to become super strict with yourself to get anything done at all, medication makes you lazy since you just pop a pill and get things done, if you stop trying after getting the pills you will start having problems again just like normal people, but if you keep working as hard as before you took the pills then their effects doesn't go away.
Tolerance to the euphoric and motivating effects builds much faster than a decade. More like a few weeks.
It’s a common problem with new ADHD patients. They mistake the euphoria and motivation for the therapeutic effect, then complain that it isn’t “working” any more and ask for progressively higher doses. Some eventually start doctor shopping to find someone who will prescribe higher doses when their provider refuses.
It’s a common problem with new ADHD patients. They mistake the euphoria and motivation for the therapeutic effect, then complain that it isn’t “working” any more and ask for progressively higher doses. Some eventually start doctor shopping to find someone who will prescribe higher doses when their provider refuses.
On the decade time scale the negative effects I've heard reported are mostly clustered in the amphetamine psychosis category
Have searched Google scholar for quite a while for long term studies (I believe vyvanse was FDA approved 2009), could you help guide on this?
Warning anecdotal but a close neuro doc friend sees 70+ Year olds who took their medication as prescribed still fine when adherence was high. But much more interested in your link if at all possible, I believe there’s maybe 8 million prescriptions outstanding in the USA so any large cohort would be helpful.
Warning anecdotal but a close neuro doc friend sees 70+ Year olds who took their medication as prescribed still fine when adherence was high. But much more interested in your link if at all possible, I believe there’s maybe 8 million prescriptions outstanding in the USA so any large cohort would be helpful.
Another anecdote: I was diagnosed in middle school and prescribed Vyvanse, which I took for the duration of my k-12 education. Some side effects I lived with were loss of appetite, social anxiety, difficulty sleeping, and later on a complete suppression of sex-drive. These were brought to my doctor's attention but were more or less considered costs to a greater good.
I sought behavioral therapy because the side effects became too much of a burden. I hold a job and remain productive, but I still struggle dealing with my adhd without medication. I'm not sure there's a point I'm trying to make here, just wanting to share some of my experience.
I sought behavioral therapy because the side effects became too much of a burden. I hold a job and remain productive, but I still struggle dealing with my adhd without medication. I'm not sure there's a point I'm trying to make here, just wanting to share some of my experience.
I wish you luck in finding a successful treatment plan.
This is also exactly the line of thinking that happened to keep me away from an ADHD diagnosis for such a long time. The point of the “superpower” language, when used by someone who is actually ADHD is that you feel impaired and are lead to believe by everyone and everything that this just the way you are - that you’re lazy, that you’re incompetent, dumb etc. And those successful focused people, they’re just more hard working, they put in more effort. ADHD drugs are life changing because suddenly you’re perfectly fine sitting still, being focused, not interrupting people.
Posts like those are what gave me the confidence to seek an ADHD diagnosis.
Posts like those are what gave me the confidence to seek an ADHD diagnosis.
Anyone reading this comment should be extremely skeptical of internet strangers like Matlin who do not have the condition thinking they know what is best for you. These medications do not work the same way on people who do not have ADHD. I get zero euphoia from these medications, and they got rid of serious insommnia problem. If you don't have ADHD your experience will be far different.
This is junk science you're repeating. There's no validity in claim people who have adhd don't experience euphoria. Some people get more euphoric than others, adhd symptoms or not and surprise stimulants make people more productive.
Except, ya know, the lived experiences of ADHD sufferers like myself. I get zero euphoria from my meds.
The idea that you think people with ADHD are just normal people who have trouble focusing are missing it by a mile. Caffine makes me sleepy.
The idea that you think people with ADHD are just normal people who have trouble focusing are missing it by a mile. Caffine makes me sleepy.
I got the euphoric/ebullient effect for the first 2-3 weeks of 30mg Adderall XR I was on when I was first diagnosed (and not for the remaining 2 years I was on it). That's the only med I've had that effect from (and I've now trialed all the ADHD medications available). Currently on a low dose of Evekeo and it's the best so far.
Thank for tip towards Evekeo. The lower dextro seems promising. If you can tell (if it’s perceptible) to adderal XR / vyvanse / mydayis or some of the longer release that would be interesting. But will Google regardless :)
Thankfully this living experiences is not how we conduct science. Some people get euphoria and done don't, there is no relationship between someone diagnosed.
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Right, I’m extremely add and get euphoria. I also feel a lot of the people who treat this as “my medication” types (they’re common) should realize the worst thing about adderall is that it makes you happy doing stupid menial stuff
Uhhh... no. Like that's not at all how stimulants affect people with ADHD. If you need me to waste 6 straight hours of my life stuffing wedding invitations I'll skip taking my meds that day. Stimulants help me have focus when I am physically unable and let me direct it at at what I want to be doing instead of it being outside my control.
Like it doesn't make you happy. That's silly. If the only issue with me doing menial tasks was that it made me unhappy I would be so much better off because at least I would be able to do the task.
Like it doesn't make you happy. That's silly. If the only issue with me doing menial tasks was that it made me unhappy I would be so much better off because at least I would be able to do the task.
Thank you for posting this. And since these are all basically just anecdotes, I would also like to add mine. I got hooked on anxiety pills after a diagnosis (not the same thing as ADHD, but still), and the withdrawals were genuinely the worst things I've ever faced. Like I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemies. With drugs, especially habit forming ones backed by Big Pharma, you should always be on the side of caution.
Moreover, some of the comments are literally about starting drugs a week or a month ago. God forbid, the long term effects could be entirely different. I started struggling with my dependencies after about a year or so.
Moreover, some of the comments are literally about starting drugs a week or a month ago. God forbid, the long term effects could be entirely different. I started struggling with my dependencies after about a year or so.
Thanks for this, my big fear is the effects of long-term use. I've had friends who were superheroes on Adderall, lost tons of weight, changed their lives. They couldn't see how manic they were.
It is an amphetamine. Go to r/ADHD and read the thousands of enthusiastic stories of people that just took it for the first time and are basically just high. I took medication for a while and it helped me surmount a bunch of issues. Now I can do well without. I never liked the effect on my body and mind.
The effect doesn't go away, you just start expecting more of yourself. Without medication I was really happy if I could focus 30 minutes in a day, that would have been like a once a month event. On medication I feel like shit if I just got 4 productive hours on a day. So sure not every day is like the first days after you start, but it never goes down to even close the level you are at without medication.
> Moreover, some of the comments are literally about starting drugs a week or a month ago
Yes and note that you know that. We're aware that long term things might change, so we point out that we're only a week in. Use your judgement from there, add as many pinches of salt as you like.
Additionally people new to a thing are WAY more likely to talk about it than others, because it is new and novel and interesting to discuss. See also: vegan, keto, crossfit, peloton, etc. Old timers tend to jump in when there's misinformation, but aside from that they stick to the sides.
Yes and note that you know that. We're aware that long term things might change, so we point out that we're only a week in. Use your judgement from there, add as many pinches of salt as you like.
Additionally people new to a thing are WAY more likely to talk about it than others, because it is new and novel and interesting to discuss. See also: vegan, keto, crossfit, peloton, etc. Old timers tend to jump in when there's misinformation, but aside from that they stick to the sides.
I've been over a magnitude more productive for many years thanks to medication. That it can't have massive long term impact is just nonsense. It doesn't make focusing trivial, but it makes focusing possible and that is all I need. If I was diagnosed earlier I'd not have wasted a decade of my life, but at least I can do stuff now.
As as person who got diagnosed with ADHD as an adult and looked back to a life of potential wasted, and while I don’t agree with calling the benefits of any drug “superpowers”, I can understand why some people would.
I exercise almost every day, meditate, eat and sleep well and yet, it was a pill that made the biggest difference in treating my difficult on keeping focus.
Same (19) BUT arguably if you need X, take more than X, then adjust to Y because of that unneeded “boost” it would sort of be a fair criticism.
But agree, can do all the above plus therapy and support / plan, and it’s not even comparable.
I feel it’s like eyeglasses and I’m being told “you can see it if you squint! It’s clear to me”. Well yeah, but would rather have eyeglasses
But agree, can do all the above plus therapy and support / plan, and it’s not even comparable.
I feel it’s like eyeglasses and I’m being told “you can see it if you squint! It’s clear to me”. Well yeah, but would rather have eyeglasses
There are a lot of positive anecdotes in threads like this because, shock of shocks, a field which is well known for having people get into it because of obsessive interest-chasing in their teen years is also dominated by people who fit the diagnostic criteria of ADHD, and also shock of shocks, medication known to help people with those criteria tend to help a lot of people in that field.
This post is just conspiracy thinking. You're far more likely to find people dissuading you from accepting an ADHD diagnosis in your life than people encouraging you. Even doctors don't really like to give a diagnosis of it unless you really clearly fit into a particular hyperactive bucket.
This post is just conspiracy thinking. You're far more likely to find people dissuading you from accepting an ADHD diagnosis in your life than people encouraging you. Even doctors don't really like to give a diagnosis of it unless you really clearly fit into a particular hyperactive bucket.
> Taking these drugs will make anyone feel more focused, motivated, etc because these drugs are strong stimulants that cause euphoria, focus, and bursts of energy.
This is incorrect. If anything I'm more calm, definitely nowhere near what you describe. I'm happy, but just that. I've been happy before, I've been high as balls before. This is the former.
I'm (with my doc) finding the lowest dose that works. I'm sure if I took 4 or 5 of these in the one I'd be bouncing off the walls, but that's not the plan.
Just like someone lacking insulin needs an insulin shot, someone lacking in stimulation needs stimulant medication.
> Anecdotally, I've seen a huge uptick in posts of the format
Ya being in mostly-isolated lockdown for over a year fucks with you mentally, wherever your starting point is.
Anecdotally back it just takes one person in a community to figure it out and get a diagnosis for everyone else who exhibit similar behaviours to start thinking "wait that is a symptom too??" and get checked out. New relationship energy then fuels the desire to spread the word to anyone else who might be suffering.
This is incorrect. If anything I'm more calm, definitely nowhere near what you describe. I'm happy, but just that. I've been happy before, I've been high as balls before. This is the former.
I'm (with my doc) finding the lowest dose that works. I'm sure if I took 4 or 5 of these in the one I'd be bouncing off the walls, but that's not the plan.
Just like someone lacking insulin needs an insulin shot, someone lacking in stimulation needs stimulant medication.
> Anecdotally, I've seen a huge uptick in posts of the format
Ya being in mostly-isolated lockdown for over a year fucks with you mentally, wherever your starting point is.
Anecdotally back it just takes one person in a community to figure it out and get a diagnosis for everyone else who exhibit similar behaviours to start thinking "wait that is a symptom too??" and get checked out. New relationship energy then fuels the desire to spread the word to anyone else who might be suffering.
Anecdotally I’ve worn a chest strap monitor and tracked HRV over several days at work. Much calmer.
But drink coffee and mix? Bad news bears.
But drink coffee and mix? Bad news bears.
Also don't forget that drugs have changed the life to the better for so many on the ADHD spectrum.
Though drugs are only part of the solution for most people with ADHD, it's almost always what enables other kinds of intervention to be effective.
For me, medication doesn't work too well. I tolerate it just fine, but it just isn't as effective as for most people.
It has still changed my life completely. I can accrue life experience in a way that was impossible before, probably as I had basically no perception of time before medication.
Maybe my daughter put it best when she (on her own volition) got diagnosed at 17'ish: "It great to not have to feel like you are going to die tomorrow." With which she meant that when you perceive time passing, you can also perceive the future ahead.
It's not the only thing that changed, and not all change has been easy. But the diagnosis has still been one of the most important things in my life, even getting it as late as at 36 years.
Though drugs are only part of the solution for most people with ADHD, it's almost always what enables other kinds of intervention to be effective.
For me, medication doesn't work too well. I tolerate it just fine, but it just isn't as effective as for most people.
It has still changed my life completely. I can accrue life experience in a way that was impossible before, probably as I had basically no perception of time before medication.
Maybe my daughter put it best when she (on her own volition) got diagnosed at 17'ish: "It great to not have to feel like you are going to die tomorrow." With which she meant that when you perceive time passing, you can also perceive the future ahead.
It's not the only thing that changed, and not all change has been easy. But the diagnosis has still been one of the most important things in my life, even getting it as late as at 36 years.
It's interesting to me that your daughter phrased it that way. There's actually a ton of research (some old, some new) about perception of time among ADHD sufferers and how that affects modern life. In a nutshell, the idea seems to be that there's a shorter time horizon (ADHD folks can only see or imagine themselves so far into the future) which is what makes long-term planning, budgeting, etc so difficult and why many are also seen as procrastinators or bad with money. Hop on any research database or google scholar and give it a look. You'll also find in that research an overwhelming bias towards studying younger folks. We're only recently starting to understand how missing diagnoses affect adult livelihoods.
Anecdote: I'm one of those who tried behavioral approaches for years before agreeing to try medication. I bounced back and forth between different types and doses and ended up on small, regular doses of adderall because I could have some control over when it tapers off. I'm disheartened by the smugness of commentary here from people who see nothing but stimulant abuse.
To give a solid example of why it can sometimes be seen as giving you superpowers, consider my experience: I have three degrees. I was in graduate school for...far too long. Anthropology isn't a quick in and out. I could wrap my head around anything, but sitting and writing multiple drafts of 50-100 page papers regularly was unimaginably difficult. I loved writing, and I wasn't sure why it was so challenging for me. Several years ago, I had the "opportunity" to write an NSF grant with (read: for) a pretty famous researcher. The downside is that when I was asked to write it, I was told the deadline was in four days. I spent some time setting up a perfect writing environment with no distractions, comfortable lighting, and everything I could think of, but when I was working, I could almost physically feel my brain constantly switching to some other track. It was deeply upsetting. The following year, I finally gave in to my doctor's medication recommendation. When I first sat down to read an article in a journal while medicated, the only thing I could hear in my head while reading was my own voice reading the words on the page. It actually brought me to tears because I realized that was probably what everyone else was able to experience normally. The glasses analogy everyone is using? Yeah, it's a bit like that, but imagine being in your 30s not even knowing that you can't see properly until someone put glasses on you. It changes your entire perception of the world and your place in it. It makes small things seem like superpowers. Like you finally have the ability to do all the things you're expected to do as a productive member of society. It's liberating. At the same time, all I can think about is how much more I might have been able to achieve if people had considered putting me in some sort of treatment as a kid rather than telling me that I wasn't working hard enough and making fun of other kids with ADHD.
Anecdote: I'm one of those who tried behavioral approaches for years before agreeing to try medication. I bounced back and forth between different types and doses and ended up on small, regular doses of adderall because I could have some control over when it tapers off. I'm disheartened by the smugness of commentary here from people who see nothing but stimulant abuse.
To give a solid example of why it can sometimes be seen as giving you superpowers, consider my experience: I have three degrees. I was in graduate school for...far too long. Anthropology isn't a quick in and out. I could wrap my head around anything, but sitting and writing multiple drafts of 50-100 page papers regularly was unimaginably difficult. I loved writing, and I wasn't sure why it was so challenging for me. Several years ago, I had the "opportunity" to write an NSF grant with (read: for) a pretty famous researcher. The downside is that when I was asked to write it, I was told the deadline was in four days. I spent some time setting up a perfect writing environment with no distractions, comfortable lighting, and everything I could think of, but when I was working, I could almost physically feel my brain constantly switching to some other track. It was deeply upsetting. The following year, I finally gave in to my doctor's medication recommendation. When I first sat down to read an article in a journal while medicated, the only thing I could hear in my head while reading was my own voice reading the words on the page. It actually brought me to tears because I realized that was probably what everyone else was able to experience normally. The glasses analogy everyone is using? Yeah, it's a bit like that, but imagine being in your 30s not even knowing that you can't see properly until someone put glasses on you. It changes your entire perception of the world and your place in it. It makes small things seem like superpowers. Like you finally have the ability to do all the things you're expected to do as a productive member of society. It's liberating. At the same time, all I can think about is how much more I might have been able to achieve if people had considered putting me in some sort of treatment as a kid rather than telling me that I wasn't working hard enough and making fun of other kids with ADHD.
Can you link the time horizon, that’s super interesting. At least most YouTube medical lectures I’ve watch sort of focused on the norepinephrine reputake inhibition and how dopamine in the (forget the name) chain somehow hinders task ability.
The concept to search for here is 'time blindness'
Also be extremely skeptical of internet strangers telling you that you DON'T need medication or vaccines or therapy.
> Anecdotally, I've seen a huge uptick in posts of the format "how an ADHD diagnosis changed my life"
You are seeing an uptick because admitting to being neuroatypical is now far more acceptable. Similar to how "there are so many more people claiming to be gay/trans/bi" on Reddit isn't suspicious either.
The meds changed my life because I have ADHD. My dad's heart medication changed his life (well, gave him a life) because he has congestive heart disease.
My GP became much more relaxed about my medication when I reported that my medications DIDN'T result in euphoria or bursts of energy as that is often the case with ADHD. I am simply much more focused.
> Anecdotally, I've seen a huge uptick in posts of the format "how an ADHD diagnosis changed my life"
You are seeing an uptick because admitting to being neuroatypical is now far more acceptable. Similar to how "there are so many more people claiming to be gay/trans/bi" on Reddit isn't suspicious either.
The meds changed my life because I have ADHD. My dad's heart medication changed his life (well, gave him a life) because he has congestive heart disease.
My GP became much more relaxed about my medication when I reported that my medications DIDN'T result in euphoria or bursts of energy as that is often the case with ADHD. I am simply much more focused.
I have ADHD diagnosed by a neuropsychiatrist and I've tried a handful of medications now. Currently I have Concerta, methylphenidate, and only on the largest dosage allowed do I even see any effects.
The effects were underwhelming to say the least. I literally could procrastinate with more focus, but my thoughts were just as scattered and I noticed myself veering off topic faster than I'd normally do.
I guess I, like many others, would benefit from some coping mechanisms and therapy perhaps instead of or in addition to medication. I wish it were a miracle pill, but it only seems to be it for some.
The effects were underwhelming to say the least. I literally could procrastinate with more focus, but my thoughts were just as scattered and I noticed myself veering off topic faster than I'd normally do.
I guess I, like many others, would benefit from some coping mechanisms and therapy perhaps instead of or in addition to medication. I wish it were a miracle pill, but it only seems to be it for some.
One of the things I learned pretty quickly is that it gave me the ability to focus better on anything, but my lack of prioritization skills became more noticeable. So yeah, it helps you focus, but you still have to practice picking what you should be focusing on.
For what it's worth, I started by trying ritalin and didn't like it. Like you, small doses of methylphenidate did the trick, but affected my mood too much. Once I learned some other coping strategies, I tried adderall again and find it to be extremely effective now. After you level up those other skills, talk to your neuro again if you feel the medication isn't actually helping.
For what it's worth, I started by trying ritalin and didn't like it. Like you, small doses of methylphenidate did the trick, but affected my mood too much. Once I learned some other coping strategies, I tried adderall again and find it to be extremely effective now. After you level up those other skills, talk to your neuro again if you feel the medication isn't actually helping.
Yeah I definitely need to work on how I actually work and create a mindset and space that supports that. But for me, only the maximum dosage of methylphenidate had any effect. I've heard of people getting the gurn on it and obviously it's a decent amount of speed for anybody, so I haven't felt comfortable continuing on it.
At my last company engineers openly bragged about strategies to get prescriptions and increase dosages. I find this behavior reprehensible.
If they were my reports I would have fired them.
If they were my reports I would have fired them.
Why?
People use all kinds of substances: caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, marijuana, modafinil, a myriad of sleeping pills, antidepressants, and painkillers. At different points in time some of them have been banned or regulated, at others available to everyone. As things stand some of them require a prescription from a doctor.
In the vast majority of cases there's little danger to at least trying out stimulants like Adderall or methylphenidate, or substances like modafinil. If people want to try them I think they should be free to do so. If they have to jump through some hoops I see no reason to frown upon it.
Their body, their choice.
People use all kinds of substances: caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, marijuana, modafinil, a myriad of sleeping pills, antidepressants, and painkillers. At different points in time some of them have been banned or regulated, at others available to everyone. As things stand some of them require a prescription from a doctor.
In the vast majority of cases there's little danger to at least trying out stimulants like Adderall or methylphenidate, or substances like modafinil. If people want to try them I think they should be free to do so. If they have to jump through some hoops I see no reason to frown upon it.
Their body, their choice.
People abusing ADHD medication like that is the reason that the medication is so tightly controlled and hard to get as someone who actually has ADHD though.
It stops being "Their body, their choice." when tangible harm is being caused to people who actually need the medication to treat a neurodevelopmental disorder.
It stops being "Their body, their choice." when tangible harm is being caused to people who actually need the medication to treat a neurodevelopmental disorder.
You get 30 pills for 30 days. I can’t buy alcohol on Sunday morning either, and I get the personal freedom aspect, but it’s very predominantly used in children, CVS literally has one variant that’s just “methamphetamine” (a hilarious generic), so having some constraint seems reasonable.
This isn't a "personal freedom" thing for me.
I'm talking as someone who was denied medical treatment for 7 years because the first specialist I saw assumed, based on my age, that I was trying to scam them for a prescription.
Those years were basically lost, and that wouldn't have happened if there wasn't so many people seeking phony diagnoses.
I'm talking as someone who was denied medical treatment for 7 years because the first specialist I saw assumed, based on my age, that I was trying to scam them for a prescription.
Those years were basically lost, and that wouldn't have happened if there wasn't so many people seeking phony diagnoses.
After moving halfway across the country in 2013, I had trouble finding a doctor who would prescribe Vyvanse - after having been on if for years and basically relying on it to remain productive.
If not for the exact discussions you’re speaking about at work, I would likely have ended up unemployed.
If not for the exact discussions you’re speaking about at work, I would likely have ended up unemployed.
I can’t agree with your anecdote. Your previous doctor could have forwarded your medical records.
If multiple doctors are of the opinion they won’t prescribe it I don’t think that justifies drug seeking behavior.
If multiple doctors are of the opinion they won’t prescribe it I don’t think that justifies drug seeking behavior.
You clearly have never experienced medical gatekeeping. It can be really frustrating to be forced to change doctors or insurance and have to fight for years to continue the treatment regimen that actually works for you.
Your PCP is the tier-1 tech support of the medical world. They have basically zero specialized knowledge to evaluate different medications outside the brochure the sales rep gave them. There's a reason PCP's punt the responsibility for a diagnosis to a psychologist and then play the game of "spin the wheel of stimulants" to find something that both alleviates their symptoms and has tolerable side-effects. Having to go through the process all again for no reason other than weird politics or a doctor on a power-trip is the worst.
Ugh.
Your PCP is the tier-1 tech support of the medical world. They have basically zero specialized knowledge to evaluate different medications outside the brochure the sales rep gave them. There's a reason PCP's punt the responsibility for a diagnosis to a psychologist and then play the game of "spin the wheel of stimulants" to find something that both alleviates their symptoms and has tolerable side-effects. Having to go through the process all again for no reason other than weird politics or a doctor on a power-trip is the worst.
Ugh.
Rather presumptive to think I haven’t been through the medical system or ran into bad doctors. My experiences will be left as an exercise to the reader.
You get medical records sent and see multiple doctors until one is aware of your ailment. Strategizing on how to lie is unacceptable to me. Happy to agree to disagree on this one.
If one of my reports used work resources to collude for substance abuse I would do everything I can to fire them.
You get medical records sent and see multiple doctors until one is aware of your ailment. Strategizing on how to lie is unacceptable to me. Happy to agree to disagree on this one.
If one of my reports used work resources to collude for substance abuse I would do everything I can to fire them.
So "lying to get a treatment that alleviates the symptoms of their medical condition in a system that punishes honesty" is substance abuse now?
I literally wish every time I go to the doctor that stimulants didn't get non-ADHD people high so I wouldn't have to deal with this crap.
I literally wish every time I go to the doctor that stimulants didn't get non-ADHD people high so I wouldn't have to deal with this crap.
> If one of my reports used work resources to collude for substance abuse I would do everything I can to fire them.
They actually used work resources to discuss medical treatments so firing them over this would likely be very illegal.
They actually used work resources to discuss medical treatments so firing them over this would likely be very illegal.
> Strategizing on how to lie is unacceptable to me.
Where are you getting this? Who lied?
Where are you getting this? Who lied?
> My experiences will be left as an exercise to the reader.
I assume that you've sought medical care and been criticized for it, and now spread that unfortunate rhetoric to others?
I assume that you've sought medical care and been criticized for it, and now spread that unfortunate rhetoric to others?
He did. The state discouraged prescribing it.
I wasn’t seeking “drug seeking”, I was seeking the only medical intervention that I’ve found that ameliorates a diagnosed condition.
You really equate that with someone looking to get high?
I wasn’t seeking “drug seeking”, I was seeking the only medical intervention that I’ve found that ameliorates a diagnosed condition.
You really equate that with someone looking to get high?
I was under the impression that without peer coaching you couldn’t get a prescription. If state guidelines are at fault how did you find a in state doctor sympathetic?
I apologize but I can’t get over the notion it’s drug seeking and/or doctor shopping.
I must assume that there was a reason for the doctor not wanting to prescribe you that medication. If state guidelines were the true root why was another doctor amenable?
Using performance enhancing drugs is a losing game. It makes it harder for those who wish to use their natural cognitive abilities.
In time it forces everyone to dope up.
I apologize but I can’t get over the notion it’s drug seeking and/or doctor shopping.
I must assume that there was a reason for the doctor not wanting to prescribe you that medication. If state guidelines were the true root why was another doctor amenable?
Using performance enhancing drugs is a losing game. It makes it harder for those who wish to use their natural cognitive abilities.
In time it forces everyone to dope up.
>Using performance enhancing drugs is a losing game. It makes it harder for those who wish to use their natural cognitive abilities.
>In time it forces everyone to dope up.
With all due respect, say less things like this.
You're wrong -the drugs treat a medical condition. Its not "doping" or "performance enhancing".
> It makes it harder for those who wish to use their natural cognitive abilities
Our society is full of people enhancing their natural abilities... with things like cars and escalators and calculators. Treating a medical condition is fixing a medical "flaw" but it is NOT some sort of get-ahead scheme.
This sort of diminutive language leaves people feeling bad about themselves instead of seeking adequate medical treatment.
With all due respect, say less things like this.
You're wrong -the drugs treat a medical condition. Its not "doping" or "performance enhancing".
> It makes it harder for those who wish to use their natural cognitive abilities
Our society is full of people enhancing their natural abilities... with things like cars and escalators and calculators. Treating a medical condition is fixing a medical "flaw" but it is NOT some sort of get-ahead scheme.
This sort of diminutive language leaves people feeling bad about themselves instead of seeking adequate medical treatment.
> I was under the impression that without peer coaching you couldn’t get a prescription. If state guidelines are at fault how did you find a in state doctor sympathetic?
I think you’re misunderstanding - I had an existing, active prescription for Vyvanse when I moved into the state. It took me months to find a doctor who would refill it for me. I had already been through years of counseling at that point.
> I must assume that there was a reason for the doctor not wanting to prescribe you that medication. If state guidelines were the true root why was another doctor amenable?
The state “looked more closely” at doctors who prescribe stimulants. Basically none of the doctors I spoke to in the beginning was willing to add another prescription to their practice because of this.
> Using performance enhancing drugs is a losing game. It makes it harder for those who wish to use their natural cognitive abilities.
How does this logic not apply to cardiac drugs? It “makes it harder for those who wish to use their natural cardiac abilities”?
I think you’re misunderstanding - I had an existing, active prescription for Vyvanse when I moved into the state. It took me months to find a doctor who would refill it for me. I had already been through years of counseling at that point.
> I must assume that there was a reason for the doctor not wanting to prescribe you that medication. If state guidelines were the true root why was another doctor amenable?
The state “looked more closely” at doctors who prescribe stimulants. Basically none of the doctors I spoke to in the beginning was willing to add another prescription to their practice because of this.
> Using performance enhancing drugs is a losing game. It makes it harder for those who wish to use their natural cognitive abilities.
How does this logic not apply to cardiac drugs? It “makes it harder for those who wish to use their natural cardiac abilities”?
> "Taking these drugs will make anyone feel more focused, motivated, etc because these drugs are strong stimulants that cause euphoria, focus, and bursts of energy."
Can't speak for others but my encounter with stimulant medications (under the care of a therapist, of course) provided none of those things. It only gave me severe insomnia, which left me worse off than before.
Can't speak for others but my encounter with stimulant medications (under the care of a therapist, of course) provided none of those things. It only gave me severe insomnia, which left me worse off than before.
Absolutely. There are some who need this medication to function, but there are many who weren't sure if they needed meds, got prescribed anyway and - surprise - feel a burst of focus and motivation now they're regularly taking stimulants.
> There are some who need this medication to function, but there are many who weren't sure if they needed meds, got prescribed anyway
ADHD medication is heavily controlled. As an adult, it is very hard to get but yes, there are likely people who got it without really needing it.
The wording of this comment ("some" vs "many") makes it seem like the majority of people got it without needing it. This is almost certainly not true due to how strictly it is controlled.
This comment is extremely diminutive and places a lot of assumption in the prescription process of medication.
ADHD medication is heavily controlled. As an adult, it is very hard to get but yes, there are likely people who got it without really needing it.
The wording of this comment ("some" vs "many") makes it seem like the majority of people got it without needing it. This is almost certainly not true due to how strictly it is controlled.
This comment is extremely diminutive and places a lot of assumption in the prescription process of medication.
Different drugs have different effects on different people. People with ADHD are often calmed down by stimulants, at doses that would have “neurotypicals” bouncing off the walls.
The original poster is in therapy, so presumably there is something going on that he or she is unhappy with.
Theoretically, if you have ADHD the medicine shouldn’t make you ‘high’. If you don’t it will have that effect.
This was told to me by a specialist (I am dubious though)
That's pretty dubious, especially about 'medicine' in general. If that was true it would double as a surefire test for ADHD. As well, all it takes is a little stronger dose and I know of a friend with ADHD that abuses it to party
This is false - if the dose is high enough with a drug like Adderall or Vyvanse you will get the euphoric and high energy when first starting out. Over the course of a week or two your body adapts and that feeling fades.
This is a common misconception. The euphoria is a transient side-effect. Some people don’t experience much euphoria from amphetamine.
I experienced euphoria for a month or so when I first started treatment, but now it feels similar to a morning cup of coffee.
I experienced euphoria for a month or so when I first started treatment, but now it feels similar to a morning cup of coffee.
I'm commenting just to balance out everyone saying this is false. I took Ritalin in middle school and never felt high whatsoever. One day my mom took it (once) because she was curious and she said she felt high (she told me this many many years later).
I took it again after college and can say that yes if you take a high enough dose it will make you slightly euphoric but I think it's different than the high of recreational drugs. If your mood is too heightened when you take it then probably you should cut back on your dosage.
I took it again after college and can say that yes if you take a high enough dose it will make you slightly euphoric but I think it's different than the high of recreational drugs. If your mood is too heightened when you take it then probably you should cut back on your dosage.
A normal dose can make you high or euphoric the first few times you take it. Eventually your body down-regulates and you don't experience a high, but if you read ADHD experiences on the internet you will often come across people who have just had their first dose and are clearly geeked up.
This is false. I was diagnosed ADHD by a psychologist twice (this is the full ADHD test where they put you through IQ and other cognitive testing). My ADHD was severe enough that I qualified for accommodations on the SATs. I was still able to get high on Vyvanse/Adderall often enough to get addicted to it. Drug companies lie to make these medications seem safer than they are.
That's really interesting to me. I take methylphenidate as a (doctor prescribed) stimulant and don't get the euphoria much at all. Maybe a little bit the first time I take an increased dose. 5 mg made me feel drugged and tired the first time. At 10 mg, I very nearly puked at about 2 hours and 4 hours after the dose the first week but no euphoria. I just had a more normal amount of energy compared to how tired I am naturally. 15 mg and I'm pretty bright and alert, but wouldn't call it euphoria by any means. I don't know what a recreational dose is. I just got my prescription upped so that I've got a couple 20 mg doses available. If I have a suspiciously lovely day, I'll let you know. I'm definitely not addicted. I feel no need to take it except when I know I need it to get through the day.
What did give me euphoria and hypo-manic behaviors was Nuvigil at 250 mg after having been off it for 2 weeks. That was an inexperienced mistake on my part, but it was really fun.
What did give me euphoria and hypo-manic behaviors was Nuvigil at 250 mg after having been off it for 2 weeks. That was an inexperienced mistake on my part, but it was really fun.
I just don't see how people become physically addicted to these drugs. I am on Desoxyn have been for years and at a pretty high dose for a clinical dose. 35mg twice a day. I have went weeks without taking my medication with no ill effect. Not a single withdraw, the only thing that happens is the foggy head comes back and I cannot seem to put one foot in front of the other to get things completed. there is only one company that makes Desoxyn and it always has to be ordered, so I have times that my pharmacy does not have it and no pharmacy stocks it by default because it is pharmaceutical Methamphetamine. I do not take anywhere near a recreational dose, but I cannot for the life of me, understand how people on prescriptions for these class of drugs get junkie level addicted. I don't have any literature to back it up, but I would assume by the street drugs, if any of these meds would be the most addictive, it would be the one whos active ingredient is methamphetamine. I just go oh well it's going to suck for a week and not much will get done. Recreational meth users are generally taking anywhere from 100-200mg at recreational doses. For me to take that my months prescription would be used up in about 8 doses. certainly not enough time to develop dependency. So where are these people getting such high doses that they can continually take, to develop physical addition.
I also have no idea why anyone would want to abuse something like Adderall. The levoamphetamine targets the bodies nervous system rather than the brain. On very low therapeutic doses it cause all kinds of peripheral physicals problems for me.
It is also good to keep in mind ADD/ADHD meds have one of the highest success rates in the pharmacological field of psychiatrics care. It's one of psychiatrics success stories and there is a mountain of evidence that supports it. It is sad that it is still stigmatized as just wanting to get high. I avoided treatment for years due to that. Not accepting the proven track record of stimulant based treatment for ADD/ADHD is doing a lot of harm to a lot of people. Is it over diagnosed sure, but that does not negate that it does work for people who suffer focus disorders.
I also have no idea why anyone would want to abuse something like Adderall. The levoamphetamine targets the bodies nervous system rather than the brain. On very low therapeutic doses it cause all kinds of peripheral physicals problems for me.
It is also good to keep in mind ADD/ADHD meds have one of the highest success rates in the pharmacological field of psychiatrics care. It's one of psychiatrics success stories and there is a mountain of evidence that supports it. It is sad that it is still stigmatized as just wanting to get high. I avoided treatment for years due to that. Not accepting the proven track record of stimulant based treatment for ADD/ADHD is doing a lot of harm to a lot of people. Is it over diagnosed sure, but that does not negate that it does work for people who suffer focus disorders.
Oh, I wasn't physically dependent. But taking it at a young age contributed to a polysubstance abuse disorder. I have no issue with adults taking ADD meds by the way. I just don't like the way it's prescribed to kids so frequently (I was on it when I was 9). I'm not sure why the fact that it's evidence based matters because I never questioned that it works (I've taken it more than enough times to know that it works, lol). I'm questioning whether the pros outweigh the cons from a holistic, social perspective.
Yep. As someone who has been taking these medications for over a decade, I can say the danger of physical and mental addiction is very real. I've also stopped medication several times over this period and the withdrawal can last weeks or months.
Have also done breaks and it’s hard, but it’s confounded with the accompanying massive drop in life functioning. I’d argue it’s 50/50 but anecdotally. The research on street addiction of amphetamine (think homeless not Ivy League SAT prep) and recovery is fairly robust. Doable but hard.
fartcannon(1)
Have been taking Strattera for a few months and wonder how many years of my life I would have not wasted if I had been diagnosed with ADHD earlier in my life.
I just turned 40 and I never thought I had ADHD until recently. Before I just thought my lack of attention on things was just the price of being a 10X on productivity (and I was a little arrogant because of it).
The reality was that I chose to put my time on tasks that I found interesting and engaging and when that choice was not available, I would feel anxious, stuck and totally unfocused. Still, I thought that was just normal procrastination that everybody goes through.
Some changes in my life and goals limited my time to act and required me to be more focused, but instead of getting into action I got more stuck than ever and very anxious as the deadlines got closer and got missed.
Treating my ADHD helped me change my relationships for better and widened the possibilites in my work and I would recommend to anybody in the same situation.
I just turned 40 and I never thought I had ADHD until recently. Before I just thought my lack of attention on things was just the price of being a 10X on productivity (and I was a little arrogant because of it).
The reality was that I chose to put my time on tasks that I found interesting and engaging and when that choice was not available, I would feel anxious, stuck and totally unfocused. Still, I thought that was just normal procrastination that everybody goes through.
Some changes in my life and goals limited my time to act and required me to be more focused, but instead of getting into action I got more stuck than ever and very anxious as the deadlines got closer and got missed.
Treating my ADHD helped me change my relationships for better and widened the possibilites in my work and I would recommend to anybody in the same situation.
I'm in a similar situation. The diagnosis changed everything for me and I really wish someone had noticed it when I was a kid.
All my therapy was about struggling with my ADHD for so long because it was unkown and untreated. Once I figured the ADHD part out, everything else fell into place.
Knowing this about myself has been nothing but positive for me.
All my therapy was about struggling with my ADHD for so long because it was unkown and untreated. Once I figured the ADHD part out, everything else fell into place.
Knowing this about myself has been nothing but positive for me.
Did you ever experiment with Adderall, Vyvanse or Ritalin? How did you end up with Strattera?
I’m trying to triangulate a course for myself and still can’t pull the trigger on any of these for fear of side-effects or dependence.
I’m trying to triangulate a course for myself and still can’t pull the trigger on any of these for fear of side-effects or dependence.
For what it's worth, my psychiatrist friend who has ADHD and specializes in ADHD practice swears by non-stimulant medications for long-term treatment.
His personal preference is Intuniv (Guanfacine). He says the only reason it's not more popular is that the start-up side effects can be unpleasant for a while and proper dose titration takes more work on the provider's side to get it right.
Stimulants don't necessarily lead to dependence, but I have seen enough adults become dependent on stimulant medication or even fall into the trap of doubling up doses or seeking extra sources that it's wise to approach it with caution. Most patients seem to use as directed, but the people who go down the path of addiction and dose escalation aren't necessarily the ones you'd expect.
His personal preference is Intuniv (Guanfacine). He says the only reason it's not more popular is that the start-up side effects can be unpleasant for a while and proper dose titration takes more work on the provider's side to get it right.
Stimulants don't necessarily lead to dependence, but I have seen enough adults become dependent on stimulant medication or even fall into the trap of doubling up doses or seeking extra sources that it's wise to approach it with caution. Most patients seem to use as directed, but the people who go down the path of addiction and dose escalation aren't necessarily the ones you'd expect.
I've used Guanfacine. It gave me heart palpitations and high blood pressure without helping my ADHD at all.
Non-stimulant medications can be good, but none of them worked for me. ADHD too broad a category to have a good idea of which medications will work for one individual or another.
The only ADHD medication that's worked for me is Adderal (and XR which I'm currently on). Otherwise the only other medication that's helped me was memantine (an Alzheimer's drug) that helped with sensory processing disorder.
Non-stimulant medications can be good, but none of them worked for me. ADHD too broad a category to have a good idea of which medications will work for one individual or another.
The only ADHD medication that's worked for me is Adderal (and XR which I'm currently on). Otherwise the only other medication that's helped me was memantine (an Alzheimer's drug) that helped with sensory processing disorder.
Not the person you're replying to but Vyvanse gave me excruciating neck cramps, brain zaps and really cold fingers. My doctor said that I had a bit of an outlier reaction to it so YMMV but if you decide to go that route at least ask about the cramps lol.
Adderall isn't a wonder drug for me but it tips the scale in my favor. I just take the standard release pills 'as needed' in the morning. It does tend to mess with my sleep a bit if I take any after 10am and definitely curbs my appetite (+/-). I'm 47 and recently have been paying closer attention to heart health, it definitely increases heart rate and blood pressure. Not alarmingly so, but if you're in any way marginal for either it's something to consider.
Adderall isn't a wonder drug for me but it tips the scale in my favor. I just take the standard release pills 'as needed' in the morning. It does tend to mess with my sleep a bit if I take any after 10am and definitely curbs my appetite (+/-). I'm 47 and recently have been paying closer attention to heart health, it definitely increases heart rate and blood pressure. Not alarmingly so, but if you're in any way marginal for either it's something to consider.
To be fair, caffeine also increases heart rate and blood pressure. I think it's common of stimulants
...and disturbs sleep, and can help treat symtoms of ADHD
I was prescribed Adderall XR which did wonders for my symptoms but eventually I stopped taking it as my heart would race after doing any strenuous exercise. I wish that wasn't the case, as it did help.
I've been on and off Vyvanse and Ritalin for a decade. Work with your doctor on side effects, I found Concerta to have the least side effects for me (long-lasting, tapers slowly at end of day, and fewer anxious feelings for me than Vyvanse.) I've also taken breaks from the medication for a year or more. It takes somewhere between 3 days and 3 weeks to feel like I'm not missing something when I stop the medication, but overall it's not that bothersome or unpleasant unless work/life is very busy at that time. Quitting coffee cold-turkey feels much worse, for comparison.
I had horrible physicals side effects with Adderall, I was switch to Desoxyn and I get no physical side effects from it. I just get clear headed with no speedy feel in the body or cramps. Adderall always made me clear headed, but also jittery in the body and gave me the worst cramps but the biggest one that I was not going to put up with is Adderall killed the marital bed performance, but funny enough not the desire, that was a deal breaker for me.
The doctor recommended that I tried Strattera first and see if worked before trying stimulants. Atomoxetine is one pill per day and works 24 hours. But doesn’t work for everybody and some people have some undesired side-effects.
I had some of the “undesired side-effects” in the beginning but they went away after a few days.
Also, in my case, it took 20 days until I felt that it was working. I noticed it started working one day after a looked back at one situation where I would normally get stuck and dread and it had gone as without any issue.
What does "10x on productivity" mean? I thought ADHD would lead to lower productivity.
This is a common misconception about ADHD.
People with ADHD have a tendency to hyperfocus on things they enjoy, to the detriment of other things.
ADHD is not a lack of focus, it is a lack of Executive Function. Sometimes the Executive Function looks easily distracted because it doesn't want to do chores so it bounces from room to room cleaning one single surface in each one.
Sometimes the Executive Function looks like a 10x programmer beast because you get so wrapped up in programming whatever you're making that it's all you can think about, you skip meals and sleep and ignore friends and family until it's done.
People with ADHD have a tendency to hyperfocus on things they enjoy, to the detriment of other things.
ADHD is not a lack of focus, it is a lack of Executive Function. Sometimes the Executive Function looks easily distracted because it doesn't want to do chores so it bounces from room to room cleaning one single surface in each one.
Sometimes the Executive Function looks like a 10x programmer beast because you get so wrapped up in programming whatever you're making that it's all you can think about, you skip meals and sleep and ignore friends and family until it's done.
It should be noted that "hyperfocus" is more of a fringe idea in ADHD science than a well-accepted feature.
Hyperfocus can also be a side effect of stimulant medication. It's not uncommon for newly diagnosed ADHD patients to take stimulants and end up hyperfocusing on the wrong thing, such as video games or other vices.
Be careful about interpreting something like increased focus as ADHD. The pop-culture definition of ADHD has become so blurry that nearly everyone could be considered ADHD under certain criteria. When focusing too much and focusing too little are both supposedly symptoms of the same disorder, it's easy to misconstrue normal behavior for disorders. It's best to leave the diagnosis to a professional.
Hyperfocus can also be a side effect of stimulant medication. It's not uncommon for newly diagnosed ADHD patients to take stimulants and end up hyperfocusing on the wrong thing, such as video games or other vices.
Be careful about interpreting something like increased focus as ADHD. The pop-culture definition of ADHD has become so blurry that nearly everyone could be considered ADHD under certain criteria. When focusing too much and focusing too little are both supposedly symptoms of the same disorder, it's easy to misconstrue normal behavior for disorders. It's best to leave the diagnosis to a professional.
> Hyperfocus can also be a side effect of stimulant medication.
This doesn't address the fact that the hyperfocus behavior is a side effect of the poor executive function and is present in unmedicated ADHD people. In fact stimulants in an ADHD brain tend to improve executive function and make hyperfocus less likely for them.
> Be careful about interpreting something like increased focus as ADHD.
As I said before, it's not about focus at all. It's about executive function. It just manifests in ways that look like focus problems. And yes, hyperfocus is absolutely as much of a problem as completely lacking focus.
This doesn't address the fact that the hyperfocus behavior is a side effect of the poor executive function and is present in unmedicated ADHD people. In fact stimulants in an ADHD brain tend to improve executive function and make hyperfocus less likely for them.
> Be careful about interpreting something like increased focus as ADHD.
As I said before, it's not about focus at all. It's about executive function. It just manifests in ways that look like focus problems. And yes, hyperfocus is absolutely as much of a problem as completely lacking focus.
The idea hyper focus is a strength is pop psychology. Its existence isn't.
You're totally right about it being an executive function disorder.
There's a variant of ADHD that tilts to the other end of the scale. Where the executive function doesn't fire by stimulus that ought to "execute". Less things overall catches the attention and leads to action, but the things that do, does so in the focused, engaged way.
There's a variant of ADHD that tilts to the other end of the scale. Where the executive function doesn't fire by stimulus that ought to "execute". Less things overall catches the attention and leads to action, but the things that do, does so in the focused, engaged way.
Turns out I have ADHD then!
For me that means that I can be intensively productive in intense bursts when I am engaged.
Pre-treatment OP sounds like me now.
I am arrogant in that I am always confident I can finish the tasks I have later. The problem is that even though I consistently do, it doesn't feel good, and sometimes unexpected outside influences will kill the tight margin I've left myself.
Pre-treatment OP sounds like me now.
I am arrogant in that I am always confident I can finish the tasks I have later. The problem is that even though I consistently do, it doesn't feel good, and sometimes unexpected outside influences will kill the tight margin I've left myself.
When you spend 40 hours mentally preparing yourself to do a task then you are extremely productive when you actually do it. But the overall performance is still horrible.
I honestly can't comprehend what this means or why it's called "10x productivity". You're productive, but overall performance is horrible? So you do lots but do it badly?
If you spend 40 hours mentally preparing yourself to do a 4 hour task. Then during those 4 hours you are way more productive than other people, but since you had to spend all those extra hours to even get started your productivity sucks. It isn't hard to understand.
So then you take medication and now get started on the task immediately, but the task now takes 10 hours to do instead of 4. Your productivity during the task thus got reduced, but your overall productivity greatly increasied.
So then you take medication and now get started on the task immediately, but the task now takes 10 hours to do instead of 4. Your productivity during the task thus got reduced, but your overall productivity greatly increasied.
What does it even mean?
The flip side to ADHD is hyperfocus on things that draw your attention. This can manifest as a 12-hour coding session without breaks or even noticing the time.
You can work exceedingly long hours with high focus on something you like.
That sounds like me! 10x productivity, sometimes so profoundly bored I'm a blank slate.
what's the difference between strattera and ritalin?
They are different drugs with different mechanisms of action. One notable difference from my experience is that Ritalin has a stimulant effect, whereas Strattera actually made me tired.
Had a similar experience. Was on this for a bit when I had a GP who seemed hesitant to prescribe stimulants even though I had historically taken ritalin and it was fine (all side effects were manageable).
You better search it, but I believe the difference is Ritalin is an amphetamine.
Ritalin is not a form of amphetamine. Ritalin's active ingredient is methylphenidate.
Ritalin is not "an amphetamine" but rather a psychostimulant. It's a DEA schedule II regulated drug.
Strattera works via a different mechanism and (supposedly) is likely not to be habit-forming. Ritalin definitely can be habit-forming.
Strattera works via a different mechanism and (supposedly) is likely not to be habit-forming. Ritalin definitely can be habit-forming.
I've been on medication for about a week now and I've not thought about offing myself once since starting. That seems dramatic but honestly that used to be the default go-to answer for any problem that couldn't be resolved within a day or so. Seems a bit excessive of a response to problems now.. It really looks like my depression might be rooted in undiagnosed ADHD.
I can also if not properly focus on tasks at least force myself to finish whatever I'm working on before wandering off. I'm going to give it another week then ask for a bump on the dosage to see if that helps that one
Negatives:
Sweating a bunch, especially at night. Then again we are just about cruising into summer and in my old place I had aircon so that might be unrelated, but it is a possible side effect.
Appetite seems to have taken a hit too. While I am fully for that (I could lose a bit of weight no bother) I will keep an eye on it
Due to covid restrictions I've not been seen for talky therapy or anything yet, this is purely medicinal treatment currently but it's been a MASSIVE positive move for me
I can also if not properly focus on tasks at least force myself to finish whatever I'm working on before wandering off. I'm going to give it another week then ask for a bump on the dosage to see if that helps that one
Negatives:
Sweating a bunch, especially at night. Then again we are just about cruising into summer and in my old place I had aircon so that might be unrelated, but it is a possible side effect.
Appetite seems to have taken a hit too. While I am fully for that (I could lose a bit of weight no bother) I will keep an eye on it
Due to covid restrictions I've not been seen for talky therapy or anything yet, this is purely medicinal treatment currently but it's been a MASSIVE positive move for me
I'm not sure which med you are on, but I've been on adderall for about 12 years. Started during 1st year of a phd program.
In my experience with adderall... everything initially good about this particular Rx eventually fades away. Amphetamine makes you feel great. At the beginning really, really, great. It certainly helped me focus on whatever was in front of me, whether it was math homework or an iphone game. It became very important to ensure the right thing(s) were in front of me before taking meds (e.g. homework textbook or open IDE; not, for example, wikipedia, or email, or HN). Not getting enough sleep was the most acute negative effect of the meds. The battle for sleep continues to this day. The meds do suppress my appetite - they still do. It didn't help me lose as much weight as I'd hoped; turns out staring at a computer screen doesn't require a ton of calories.
These days I take as little Rx as possible, and I feel a lot better. I attribute a portion of this mood improvement to using a treadmill desk, which I started using ~2 years ago. I walk about 15-20 miles a day, while working (coding/writing/etc). I feel like it helps me focus, because I am "burning off" pent-up ADHD restlessness while working. And probably most helpful of all, I'm tired at the end of the day, so I fall asleep much easier.
In my experience with adderall... everything initially good about this particular Rx eventually fades away. Amphetamine makes you feel great. At the beginning really, really, great. It certainly helped me focus on whatever was in front of me, whether it was math homework or an iphone game. It became very important to ensure the right thing(s) were in front of me before taking meds (e.g. homework textbook or open IDE; not, for example, wikipedia, or email, or HN). Not getting enough sleep was the most acute negative effect of the meds. The battle for sleep continues to this day. The meds do suppress my appetite - they still do. It didn't help me lose as much weight as I'd hoped; turns out staring at a computer screen doesn't require a ton of calories.
These days I take as little Rx as possible, and I feel a lot better. I attribute a portion of this mood improvement to using a treadmill desk, which I started using ~2 years ago. I walk about 15-20 miles a day, while working (coding/writing/etc). I feel like it helps me focus, because I am "burning off" pent-up ADHD restlessness while working. And probably most helpful of all, I'm tired at the end of the day, so I fall asleep much easier.
I was on Adderall for roughly 10 years, and it really didn't make me feel great. I tried taking larger doses when I was going through my 'experiment with all the new drugs' phase in high school, and didn't really get the euphoria I hear about. In general, Adderall in any dose makes me sweaty, smelly, and antisocial.
I hated taking it. Yet it would in fact improve my performance. For 3 years since my last filled prescription circa 2012 I had enough adderall to just take it whenever I felt like I 'needed it', which was rarely, because I hated taking it so much. Since I've run out, I do have issues with ADD still, but fortunately have been able to cope as an adult in my (now) 30s.
I do think having it on hand is really great for some people, but I don't think 'feeling great' is a unanimous experience.
I hated taking it. Yet it would in fact improve my performance. For 3 years since my last filled prescription circa 2012 I had enough adderall to just take it whenever I felt like I 'needed it', which was rarely, because I hated taking it so much. Since I've run out, I do have issues with ADD still, but fortunately have been able to cope as an adult in my (now) 30s.
I do think having it on hand is really great for some people, but I don't think 'feeling great' is a unanimous experience.
With he sleep thing, I experienced the opposite. The ability to just lay down, decide to sleep, and sleep, combined with a bit of a chemical cue from the comedown really helped to regulate the insomnia I had struggled with since adolescence.
This was the biggest benefit for me.
I may have been overenthusiastic in my wording. I don't feel great, I just don't feel shite now because I'm able to do the work instead of sit there stressing about it all day. My happiness balance was in the overdraft, it is now just above 0.
I'm on the one the US would call Ritalin. If indeed a tolerance does appear then that will be disappointing and I'll have to figure it out from there. Unfortunately I don't tend to get anything other than "I'm physically tired now" from exercise
I'm on the one the US would call Ritalin. If indeed a tolerance does appear then that will be disappointing and I'll have to figure it out from there. Unfortunately I don't tend to get anything other than "I'm physically tired now" from exercise
I had a similar experience, but after the 1st year both the positives and negatives wore off (now it doesn't feel like I'm taking anything it just feels normal) and I was simply left with the ability to choose my focus (about 80%).
Now if I don't take my adderall on a given day I have trouble focusing and by midday I get pretty restless and antsy.
Now if I don't take my adderall on a given day I have trouble focusing and by midday I get pretty restless and antsy.
Can you tell me more about your experience with selection, use, and pitfalls of treadmill desks?
Sure I have a few nuggets. I went through a couple cheap treadmills before I finally took the advice of another long-term treadmill desk user and bought a lifespan fitness:
https://www.lifespanfitness.com/workplace/treadmill-desks/tr...
It's an incredible sturdy and reliable treadmill. It has built in shock absorption and can autodetect your steps. Although I wear a clip-on fitbit to sync steps to my phone (wrist fitbit isnt going to work well to count steps since your hands will be typing or whatever).
I transitioned from a standing desk to a treadmill desk and was surprised that walking is actually much easier to sustain for long periods than standing. I started very slow. 1.2 mph. I gradually (and naturally) have made my way up to 2.4 mph.
If you get one, make sure to get good shoes! Something that a marathoner would use (e.g. Brooks, Asic, etc).
Getting a treadmill desk is among the best decisions I've ever made.
https://www.lifespanfitness.com/workplace/treadmill-desks/tr...
It's an incredible sturdy and reliable treadmill. It has built in shock absorption and can autodetect your steps. Although I wear a clip-on fitbit to sync steps to my phone (wrist fitbit isnt going to work well to count steps since your hands will be typing or whatever).
I transitioned from a standing desk to a treadmill desk and was surprised that walking is actually much easier to sustain for long periods than standing. I started very slow. 1.2 mph. I gradually (and naturally) have made my way up to 2.4 mph.
If you get one, make sure to get good shoes! Something that a marathoner would use (e.g. Brooks, Asic, etc).
Getting a treadmill desk is among the best decisions I've ever made.
btw the friend who helped me choose treadmill made a long video about treadmill desks and health:
https://youtu.be/27KT8bvDCw0
https://youtu.be/27KT8bvDCw0
Medication helped a lot in the beginning, but what really helped in the long term was talk therapy, and setting up helpful systems and habits such as exercising, diet, journalling. But this would not have been possible without taking Ritalin in the first place. I'm mostly off-meds now.
I found the medication useful in interesting ways.
While on its effect, I've learn what it feels like to be focused, how ones mind works when in "not easily distracted mode", and I've very slowly learnt to apply some of these things even then not taking the medication.
While on its effect, I've learn what it feels like to be focused, how ones mind works when in "not easily distracted mode", and I've very slowly learnt to apply some of these things even then not taking the medication.
This is a good point!
Stimulants are not always necessary long term, but they usually are to start effecting enough change to be able to function in the present society.
For some (me probably) it'll be a lifelong thing, but it definitely doesn't have to be for everyone!
I'm happy for your success!
I really wish I had access to more talk therapy, physiotherapy, guided relaxation, mindfullness'ish sessions, and some other forms of support. The medicine helps me to stay mostly functioning, but with talking to a therapist and practicing "basal body knowledge" I was feeling so much better!
Stimulants are not always necessary long term, but they usually are to start effecting enough change to be able to function in the present society.
For some (me probably) it'll be a lifelong thing, but it definitely doesn't have to be for everyone!
I'm happy for your success!
I really wish I had access to more talk therapy, physiotherapy, guided relaxation, mindfullness'ish sessions, and some other forms of support. The medicine helps me to stay mostly functioning, but with talking to a therapist and practicing "basal body knowledge" I was feeling so much better!
I'll be starting the talk therapy side of things soon I believe! Bit of a lag on that due to covid etc.
I've already had some systems in place (if it's not in Todoist it's not getting done) but I was falling behind even my norm. If I can get to a point where I can function well enough without meds that will be brilliant, here's to hoping :)
I've already had some systems in place (if it's not in Todoist it's not getting done) but I was falling behind even my norm. If I can get to a point where I can function well enough without meds that will be brilliant, here's to hoping :)
Definitely try some of the alternate first-line medicines. For me, methylphenidate (Ritalin/Concerta in US) works wonders. Many people seem very happy with Strattera or Adderall.
My first few weeks were a rollercoaster, but the negative effects reduced significantly over time as I got used to the medicine and stabilised my dosage. And the positive effects are life-changing.
My first few weeks were a rollercoaster, but the negative effects reduced significantly over time as I got used to the medicine and stabilised my dosage. And the positive effects are life-changing.
Ritalin (the UK version of anyway) is the one I've been put on yeah. Adderall equiv is on the table if this doesn't work but so far it seems to be the right track
Obviously different medications have different side effects, but I started taking fluoxetine (Prozac) over a year ago. The first 6-8 weeks were ROUGH. The mood swings were unbearable. It did even out after that and I’m stable now. The night sweats are real though, it’s annoying. My room can be 65° F and I’ll still get them.
ADHD meds (psychostimulants) are fast-acting anti depressants. I hope the regiment works out regardless of the underlying condition they're helping you manage, but just another perspective.
ADHD meds are definitely not antidepressants.
A sense of euphoria can be a side effect of early treatment, but that's not to be confused with an actual anti-depressant effect.
Some (unfortunately many) users get stuck chasing that initial sense of euphoria with continued dose escalation requests, or by playing games to only take doses on certain days of the week or even by doubling up doses on some days. This is a road you don't want to go down.
A sense of euphoria can be a side effect of early treatment, but that's not to be confused with an actual anti-depressant effect.
Some (unfortunately many) users get stuck chasing that initial sense of euphoria with continued dose escalation requests, or by playing games to only take doses on certain days of the week or even by doubling up doses on some days. This is a road you don't want to go down.
Stimulants do have an anti-depressant quality in a similar sense to SNRIs. They stimulate release of extracellular neural serotonin and norepinephrine (SNRIs block reuptake of serotonin and norepinephrine. Before the accidental discovery of the first front-line antidepressants in the 50s, they were prescribed for depression.
However, for the reasons you mentioned, they aren’t very good antidepressants. It’s easy to mistake the early euphoria of amphetamine for reduction in depression. Without careful management, it’s easier to become tolerant or even addicted to amphetamine.
However, for the reasons you mentioned, they aren’t very good antidepressants. It’s easy to mistake the early euphoria of amphetamine for reduction in depression. Without careful management, it’s easier to become tolerant or even addicted to amphetamine.
Stimulants including Adderall have been formally trialed for depression treatment. They don't work.
Don't confuse the molecular mechanism of a drug for its eventual outcome. There is far more to a medication than binding affinities.
Don't confuse the molecular mechanism of a drug for its eventual outcome. There is far more to a medication than binding affinities.
What studies? The information that I’ve found on PubMed and clinicaltrials.gov indicates that this is a poorly studied question, not a decided one.
A 2015 survey (Raymond Pary, MD, et al) found evidence that many psychostimulants were effective adjuncts for MDD and Bipolar depression. The results weren’t extraordinary but they were statistically significant. The authors noted in the results that the topic was generally poorly studied and double-blind clinical trials were limited.
In 2010-2011 Shire ran Phase II FDA trials on Vyvanse as an adjunct to traditional antidepressants for MDD with mediocre but also statistically significant positive results. Considering the age of most psychostimulants in use, that’s a fairly recent result from a clinical trial.
I certainly agree that psychostimulants are not a good choice to treat depression but that’s a far cry from “formally trialed for depression... don’t work”.
A 2015 survey (Raymond Pary, MD, et al) found evidence that many psychostimulants were effective adjuncts for MDD and Bipolar depression. The results weren’t extraordinary but they were statistically significant. The authors noted in the results that the topic was generally poorly studied and double-blind clinical trials were limited.
In 2010-2011 Shire ran Phase II FDA trials on Vyvanse as an adjunct to traditional antidepressants for MDD with mediocre but also statistically significant positive results. Considering the age of most psychostimulants in use, that’s a fairly recent result from a clinical trial.
I certainly agree that psychostimulants are not a good choice to treat depression but that’s a far cry from “formally trialed for depression... don’t work”.
With the exception of MDMA, MDMA has show to have effective outcomes on depression and PTSD in short term studies. They problem is they have to be interleaved with SSRI's or the down state is far worse. That has been the issue with MDMA, it drops a depressed person lower than they where on the down ramp. Therefore there are concerns that it could place someone who was not suicidal in that low of a state. Studies have shown regulating this with SSRI's can mitigate the down state.
> or by playing games to only take doses on certain days of the week
This is something I’ve always done, under the close supervision of my doctor. I’m not sure if he initially recommended it or not, but it’s been extremely effective for me in terms of keeping my effective dosage low and limiting tolerance.
My prescribed dosage of Vyvanse stayed consistent for about a year after beginning taking it, but began to escalate after that. I didn’t like that and was resistant to continuing to increase it. I went from 40mg initially to 70mg at the highest. I’m back down to 50mg today and am able to keep it at that level by limiting taking it less often. I typically end up taking it 4-5 days per week.
There are significant long-term side effects of these medications - limiting tolerance building and keeping the effective dose as low as possible is a viable means of reducing the chance of experiencing them.
Why do you assert that this is a “road you don’t want to go down”? Is it merely because my reason for doing so is so different?
This is something I’ve always done, under the close supervision of my doctor. I’m not sure if he initially recommended it or not, but it’s been extremely effective for me in terms of keeping my effective dosage low and limiting tolerance.
My prescribed dosage of Vyvanse stayed consistent for about a year after beginning taking it, but began to escalate after that. I didn’t like that and was resistant to continuing to increase it. I went from 40mg initially to 70mg at the highest. I’m back down to 50mg today and am able to keep it at that level by limiting taking it less often. I typically end up taking it 4-5 days per week.
There are significant long-term side effects of these medications - limiting tolerance building and keeping the effective dose as low as possible is a viable means of reducing the chance of experiencing them.
Why do you assert that this is a “road you don’t want to go down”? Is it merely because my reason for doing so is so different?
If they're also antidepressants why was I not taken off the antidepressants (citalopram) I was already on?
It's been about 9 years and I'm still on the original dose of the first medication my psychiatrist prescribed. I'm really glad I managed my pride enough to make that first appointment.
- Slept better. No more tossing and turning for an hour or two before I fell asleep.
- Ate more regularly. My stomach starts to hurt if I wait too long between meals.
- Remembered people's names when meeting them, at least to the point where I could say it again after they introduced themselves and started talking.
- More realistic outlook. Things aren't perfect and they aren't the worst, they just either kind of suck for now or this is a good moment.
- No longer have to make a giant mental effort to get something done on the weekend. If I want to read a book, I read it. If I want to play video games, I play them. If I want to clean the house, I clean the house.
- No longer a giant mental effort to get something done at work. Need to send an email? Send it. Need to annotate some data? Annotate it. Need to schedule a meeting? Schedule it.
- Slept better. No more tossing and turning for an hour or two before I fell asleep.
- Ate more regularly. My stomach starts to hurt if I wait too long between meals.
- Remembered people's names when meeting them, at least to the point where I could say it again after they introduced themselves and started talking.
- More realistic outlook. Things aren't perfect and they aren't the worst, they just either kind of suck for now or this is a good moment.
- No longer have to make a giant mental effort to get something done on the weekend. If I want to read a book, I read it. If I want to play video games, I play them. If I want to clean the house, I clean the house.
- No longer a giant mental effort to get something done at work. Need to send an email? Send it. Need to annotate some data? Annotate it. Need to schedule a meeting? Schedule it.
What medication were you prescribed if you don't mind answering?
Before my diagnosis, ADHD was my kryptonite. I thought I was lazy, I couldn’t accomplish the things I needed to. It pushed me into depression and was quite hard.
After my diagnosis, I felt like ADHD became my superpower. I know how to play to my strengths rather than my weaknesses. I know if I have an interest in something, I can dive into it and produce great output, and for tasks that need doing which aren’t interesting, I have coping mechanisms and medication if necessary.
After my diagnosis, I felt like ADHD became my superpower. I know how to play to my strengths rather than my weaknesses. I know if I have an interest in something, I can dive into it and produce great output, and for tasks that need doing which aren’t interesting, I have coping mechanisms and medication if necessary.
How did you get your diagnosis? Every time I read the symptoms it sounds like me, but it also kinda sounds like everybody. What's the signal that it's a pathology worthy of treatment?
Not the person you are replying to, but generally speaking I look at getting a diagnosis (for most mental health problems) like so:
Do these symptoms cause me struggle with my everyday life? Are things that normal people do all the time oddly difficult for me to complete?
If so, go get a diagnosis. Everyone struggles with procrastination to an extent, but if you try to sit down and try to start the work and just CANNOT emotionally bring yourself to do the work or get your brain to engage, then it's probably something more than just normal procrastination. If you are frustrated with your inability to remain focused and complete things on time that are just not inherently interesting to you, recognize that most people don't struggle like that. It's not a discipline problem it's an emotional regulation problem which is common of ADHD.
Do these symptoms cause me struggle with my everyday life? Are things that normal people do all the time oddly difficult for me to complete?
If so, go get a diagnosis. Everyone struggles with procrastination to an extent, but if you try to sit down and try to start the work and just CANNOT emotionally bring yourself to do the work or get your brain to engage, then it's probably something more than just normal procrastination. If you are frustrated with your inability to remain focused and complete things on time that are just not inherently interesting to you, recognize that most people don't struggle like that. It's not a discipline problem it's an emotional regulation problem which is common of ADHD.
> if you try to sit down and try to start the work and just CANNOT emotionally bring yourself to do the work or get your brain to engage, then it's probably something more than just normal procrastination
I've had so many problems with this in high school and college, it's unreal. I've only started to fully comprehend my problems with anxiety this past semester but reading all of this makes me wonder if there's something more to it than just that.
I've had so many problems with this in high school and college, it's unreal. I've only started to fully comprehend my problems with anxiety this past semester but reading all of this makes me wonder if there's something more to it than just that.
If it's really that hard to get engaged into something that you aren't innately interested in but that you know you "should" do, I would seek an ADHD diagnosis. It's a pretty big symptom. Sometimes it really is not possible and even if it is it's extremely difficult and you feel dumb for it (but obviously you shouldn't, it's not your fault). It's like your mind throwing a tantrum and refusing to engage with the work at all.
This is my struggle. But also, nobody likes to focus on something uninteresting. What's the difference between ADHD and just not wanting to do it?
Not wanting to do it and not being able to do it are two different things. To an adhd person boring tasks aren't just boring to do, they are impossible to do even if they were paid a million dollars to do it.
I call it not being able to put one foot in front of the other. You will find all kinds of distractions to try to not think about it, because to think about it is almost physically painful.
The difference is really not being able to focus if it's not interesting. Your brain will constantly turn to other stimulation if it's not getting it from the current task. Sometimes you might be able to do it, and other times you won't. That's one of the most frustrating parts of ADHD. You feel like you've done it before, so why can't you do it now? "Normal" people can still focus (or get started) even if something is not interesting, they just have to start.
Most people won't like to do uninteresting things, but the threshold for boredom is extremely low in those with ADHD so they will struggle a lot more to stay focused. It's a spectrum unfortunately, so there's no one definitive measure that says "that's definitely ADHD". To be honest, if you find yourself seriously questioning/wondering about whether or not you have ADHD it probably means you're struggling to an extent and aren't 'normal'. Otherwise, it wouldn't be something you are questioning.
Most people won't like to do uninteresting things, but the threshold for boredom is extremely low in those with ADHD so they will struggle a lot more to stay focused. It's a spectrum unfortunately, so there's no one definitive measure that says "that's definitely ADHD". To be honest, if you find yourself seriously questioning/wondering about whether or not you have ADHD it probably means you're struggling to an extent and aren't 'normal'. Otherwise, it wouldn't be something you are questioning.
Would second this, if the though of doing the dishes is equivalent to someone shooting your dog emotionally then you have an issue. It just seems like life cannot go on to get yourself to drag yourself to the sink and start washing them. Now I do them almost every time I take a break.
You may have "non-problematic" ADHD, or not consider it a problem. But there may be a few things you struggle with that you aren't telling.
Emotional stability. My girlfriend had massive ups and downs, almost bipolar; the medication (slow release, concerta or its cheaper but equivalent alternative) evened things out. I have a friend who doesn't want the diagnosis or treatment because he's fine with it, and you can tell he struggles with keeping his emotions under control. He mainly gets really frustrated and loses his patience if things aren't going as fast as he wants to.
The other one is getting overwhelmed and/or having meltdowns, because one comorbidity of ADHD is sensory processing disorder. It's things like grocery stores with music and children screaming that can get too much.
Another one is things being "loud / busy" in your head, maddeningly so. I've heard that taking the meds quiets things down, and it's a relief.
Anyway, a diagnosis won't hurt, it'll improve your self-awareness. You won't be forced to take medication or anything if you don't want to. A diagnosis is usually a questionnaire and a "take this ritalin and tell me how you feel in a bit".
Emotional stability. My girlfriend had massive ups and downs, almost bipolar; the medication (slow release, concerta or its cheaper but equivalent alternative) evened things out. I have a friend who doesn't want the diagnosis or treatment because he's fine with it, and you can tell he struggles with keeping his emotions under control. He mainly gets really frustrated and loses his patience if things aren't going as fast as he wants to.
The other one is getting overwhelmed and/or having meltdowns, because one comorbidity of ADHD is sensory processing disorder. It's things like grocery stores with music and children screaming that can get too much.
Another one is things being "loud / busy" in your head, maddeningly so. I've heard that taking the meds quiets things down, and it's a relief.
Anyway, a diagnosis won't hurt, it'll improve your self-awareness. You won't be forced to take medication or anything if you don't want to. A diagnosis is usually a questionnaire and a "take this ritalin and tell me how you feel in a bit".
Getting overwhelmed is totally spot-on. I do need to remove myself on occasions. My family always remarks on my sensitive hearing and sense of smell.
Hypersensitive sense of smell and hearing, plus need for solitude, and you mentioned in another comment "hyperempathy" when listening to people... could be autistic spectrum. Often comes hand-in-hand with some ADHD symptoms as well. Do you have difficulty reading people's facial expressions, or at least did as a child?
I don't. In fact, people often look to me for more nuanced interpretations during meetings and social interactions.
>> Another one is things being "loud / busy" in your head, maddeningly so. I've heard that taking the meds quiets things down, and it's a relief.
This is a big one for me. I pretty much always have a podcast or audiobook going because otherwise my head is just so loud and non directed. I'll have some fragment of a song repeating in my head for 9 hours straight and I don't even realize it until my partner tells me to stop humming it.
This is a big one for me. I pretty much always have a podcast or audiobook going because otherwise my head is just so loud and non directed. I'll have some fragment of a song repeating in my head for 9 hours straight and I don't even realize it until my partner tells me to stop humming it.
>>Another one is things being "loud / busy" in your head, maddeningly so. I've heard that taking the meds quiets things down, and it's a relief.
I agree, this is a big issue. It’s like having a lightning storm in your brain. I literally count how long it takes for a random racing thought to pop in my head when this becomes an issue. I also talk to myself way more than an average person.
I agree, this is a big issue. It’s like having a lightning storm in your brain. I literally count how long it takes for a random racing thought to pop in my head when this becomes an issue. I also talk to myself way more than an average person.
So you, a non-professional, casually diagnosed your friend with ADHD, and then went on to explain his behavior with this.
If there’s one thing my psychologist friends tell me not to do, it’s exactly this: make up diagnoses for myself and others around me to explain behaviors post hoc.
If there’s one thing my psychologist friends tell me not to do, it’s exactly this: make up diagnoses for myself and others around me to explain behaviors post hoc.
I was diagnosed last year, the change in my life has been nothing short of profound.
I recall the computer based testing before and after the short-term dose of Ritalin. The graph of my body movement and failure rate - I became normal. I could do the task and it wasn't hell under Methlyphenidate. I was relaxed.
On the downside - the change in my behaviour and my ability to be more independent with administration etc. caused my partner and I to separate. My change was too much for her. It makes me sad, however I was an utter pain-in-the-ass for her the way I was. My invoicing and personal accounts were always such a mess, but now I can do these things myself. I'm next-level organised compared to how I was before.
My core work as a strategist / developer has also improved remarkably. I don't rush in and make stupid moves so much these days - and I find myself taking the time to understand things I never had the patience to understand.
In short, I feel like I've been living my life on hard-level my entire life. At 45 everything changed. It's just a shame I wasn't diagnosed earlier, but I didn't believe ADHD was actually a valid disorder.
I recall the computer based testing before and after the short-term dose of Ritalin. The graph of my body movement and failure rate - I became normal. I could do the task and it wasn't hell under Methlyphenidate. I was relaxed.
On the downside - the change in my behaviour and my ability to be more independent with administration etc. caused my partner and I to separate. My change was too much for her. It makes me sad, however I was an utter pain-in-the-ass for her the way I was. My invoicing and personal accounts were always such a mess, but now I can do these things myself. I'm next-level organised compared to how I was before.
My core work as a strategist / developer has also improved remarkably. I don't rush in and make stupid moves so much these days - and I find myself taking the time to understand things I never had the patience to understand.
In short, I feel like I've been living my life on hard-level my entire life. At 45 everything changed. It's just a shame I wasn't diagnosed earlier, but I didn't believe ADHD was actually a valid disorder.
Do you mind me asking a little about the separation? I’m shocked I am in a solid marriage. I am a nightmare...
I read this post from 2015 yesterday and was amused because the guy clearly seemed to have ADHD in my opinion [0].
Then in the comments on HN somebody mentioned that the author recently wrote about being diagnosed at 40, which may be an interesting read here [1]. The author says it was like living the Truman show.
ADHD can be harmful and comes with a bunch of comorbidities that can also develop later in life. If you have trouble listening, tend to hyperfocus on things but also emotional states, etc. I recommend going forward with a diagnosis.
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27495535 [1] https://www.raptitude.com/2021/03/what-raptitude-has-always-...
ADHD can be harmful and comes with a bunch of comorbidities that can also develop later in life. If you have trouble listening, tend to hyperfocus on things but also emotional states, etc. I recommend going forward with a diagnosis.
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27495535 [1] https://www.raptitude.com/2021/03/what-raptitude-has-always-...
Thank you. I'm reading both now. Funny how his blog is about 'living your best life', the exact reason I went to therapy to begin with.
I don't have trouble listening, but the opposite. I empathize so strongly when people talk to me about their problems that I end up exhausted.
I don't have trouble listening, but the opposite. I empathize so strongly when people talk to me about their problems that I end up exhausted.
It saved my life.
I went from always being clouds in the sky, never finish any project, always in my head, wasting days away on social media, both kind and loud and inconsiderate, and seriously depressed, to somebody I can face in the mirror.
It's not a cure all and it took a lot of counselling and some time to find the right medication but it turned my life 180 degrees.
I no longer feel like all my dreams are running through my fingers, and that every new endeavour I start will end in failure. I have much better personal relationships, and am a much better listener with the same kindness I had before.
I've learned to appreciate things that I never thought I could appreciate before. Working on a project for an extended period of time with progress so small you barely see it, and then realising how much you've accomplished over a long timeframe is such a rewarding experience. Before I couldn't study, either I was immediately gifted at something or I just couldn't bring myself to invest time into it. Simple things like, being able to read without getting bored or distracted by every little breeze, or not spending every night coding because you didn't get stuff done during the day and feel like you have to make up for it, is just nice.
Don't fear medication, there's so much stigma around it, but it helps more than anything else. If you got an inflamed thumb you also get antibiotics. The ones I tried first were making me emotionally very detached, but me and my doctor tried around a bit and found something that works really well, it's part of the journey.
Without the meds I feel like a prisoner in my own head. With them I still suck at cleaning my place, I still talk over people when I'm excited, and I still procrastinate regularly, but at least I got enough of a fighting chance to feel like I'm in charge of my life and no longer feel like a leaf in the wind.
I went from always being clouds in the sky, never finish any project, always in my head, wasting days away on social media, both kind and loud and inconsiderate, and seriously depressed, to somebody I can face in the mirror.
It's not a cure all and it took a lot of counselling and some time to find the right medication but it turned my life 180 degrees.
I no longer feel like all my dreams are running through my fingers, and that every new endeavour I start will end in failure. I have much better personal relationships, and am a much better listener with the same kindness I had before.
I've learned to appreciate things that I never thought I could appreciate before. Working on a project for an extended period of time with progress so small you barely see it, and then realising how much you've accomplished over a long timeframe is such a rewarding experience. Before I couldn't study, either I was immediately gifted at something or I just couldn't bring myself to invest time into it. Simple things like, being able to read without getting bored or distracted by every little breeze, or not spending every night coding because you didn't get stuff done during the day and feel like you have to make up for it, is just nice.
Don't fear medication, there's so much stigma around it, but it helps more than anything else. If you got an inflamed thumb you also get antibiotics. The ones I tried first were making me emotionally very detached, but me and my doctor tried around a bit and found something that works really well, it's part of the journey.
Without the meds I feel like a prisoner in my own head. With them I still suck at cleaning my place, I still talk over people when I'm excited, and I still procrastinate regularly, but at least I got enough of a fighting chance to feel like I'm in charge of my life and no longer feel like a leaf in the wind.
What meds worked for you?
Keep in mind that different ADHD medication might have completely different effects for different patients, and that what works for me might not work for you and vice versa.
That being said, I started with two doses of Ritalin (Methylphenidate) with 30mg in the morning and another 20mg past noon. And then switched to Elvanse(Lisdexamfetamine) with a single 30mg for the entire day.
I'd describe the difference between the the two (personally, again, mechanisms of action and cause of illness differ between people), as my ADHD being like driving a car with flat tires. The Ritalin gave me a more powerful motor, so I could simply power through the flat tire, while the Elvanse is like a spare tire.
Also as a general note, I prefer to be slightly under-medicated than over-medicated. Ideally I'd take barely enough to make me overcome my inner barrier, and then work from there with taking breaks, going by my own timing, doing sports e.t.c. which then act as a compounding and self reinforcing positive feedback loop.
That being said, I started with two doses of Ritalin (Methylphenidate) with 30mg in the morning and another 20mg past noon. And then switched to Elvanse(Lisdexamfetamine) with a single 30mg for the entire day.
I'd describe the difference between the the two (personally, again, mechanisms of action and cause of illness differ between people), as my ADHD being like driving a car with flat tires. The Ritalin gave me a more powerful motor, so I could simply power through the flat tire, while the Elvanse is like a spare tire.
Also as a general note, I prefer to be slightly under-medicated than over-medicated. Ideally I'd take barely enough to make me overcome my inner barrier, and then work from there with taking breaks, going by my own timing, doing sports e.t.c. which then act as a compounding and self reinforcing positive feedback loop.
This is interesting, I used to take Methylphenidate twice daily (Ritalin LA) but stopped due to increasing side effects. A few years back I was able to switch to Lisdexamphetamine. I realized that one tablet a day was not enough for me, even upping my dose didn't help; it didn't last longer than 6 hours for me..
I think unfortunately that some of the marketing material and advertised duration by Shire isn't telling the whole story w/r/t the drugs duration.
Is it healthy for me to basically have amphetamine in my body 24/7? Probably not, but it has certainly helped me the 5 or so years I've been taking them.
I can be a bit more strict &straight to the point now than before, but I don't find myself behaving very differently now vs before. I'm on the autistic spectrum for sure, and with ADHD as well it's hard to judge if it's just me or the medication.
Lastly, if I had gotten the opportunity to take medication to help the symptoms earlier I probably would have had a better education and been better off than I am today. Way too much time at school was wasted just looking out the window and doing other things rather than paying attention, and yes it wasn't becuase I wasn't interested per se, it's just that putting effort into focusing short term in order to get the gratified response of a good education (years later) is not something someone with ADHD can easily do.
I think unfortunately that some of the marketing material and advertised duration by Shire isn't telling the whole story w/r/t the drugs duration.
Is it healthy for me to basically have amphetamine in my body 24/7? Probably not, but it has certainly helped me the 5 or so years I've been taking them.
I can be a bit more strict &straight to the point now than before, but I don't find myself behaving very differently now vs before. I'm on the autistic spectrum for sure, and with ADHD as well it's hard to judge if it's just me or the medication.
Lastly, if I had gotten the opportunity to take medication to help the symptoms earlier I probably would have had a better education and been better off than I am today. Way too much time at school was wasted just looking out the window and doing other things rather than paying attention, and yes it wasn't becuase I wasn't interested per se, it's just that putting effort into focusing short term in order to get the gratified response of a good education (years later) is not something someone with ADHD can easily do.
So my take maybe isn't the healthiest on this, not sure.
If you believe you have ADHD, and your therapist believes you have ADHD, BUT your life isn't negatively impacted by it, why start treatment now?
Ask yourself if you have any negative impacts from ADHD. Ask your spouse. Personal relationships, professional work, all aspects. If the answer is no, then why bother?
Source: ADHD treatments that left me a zombie when all I really needed was therapy and help to figure out realistic, functional coping mechanisms.
If you believe you have ADHD, and your therapist believes you have ADHD, BUT your life isn't negatively impacted by it, why start treatment now?
Ask yourself if you have any negative impacts from ADHD. Ask your spouse. Personal relationships, professional work, all aspects. If the answer is no, then why bother?
Source: ADHD treatments that left me a zombie when all I really needed was therapy and help to figure out realistic, functional coping mechanisms.
ADHD impacts my life very much, but I was diagnosed as an adult. I honestly have no idea how I operated pre-diagnosis (and pre-medication). I think about some of the struggles I went through (e.g. my entire educational experience or my entire experience as a founder) and I really suffered in those times.
However, I absolutely agree with you.
Daily stimulants are a frustrating balancing act. Anti-depressants have frustrating side-effects. If I operated well without either or both, I would drop them in a hot second.
I DO benefit from medication to a degree that it has vastly improved my quality of life. I also benefit from therapy and the development of coping tools — in fact, I think anyone who benefits from medication should also seek therapy because it’s SO helpful.
This isn’t really a counterpoint to your experience, but more of a companion-point. Your post doesn’t make me think that you are an irrationally anti-pill person or anything like that. I’m just reinforcing what you’ve implied: treatment isn’t one-size-fits-all (although, at least in America, the medical system sure tries to make it that way). It’s incredibly important for anyone with ADHD to find the right tools for them.
However, I absolutely agree with you.
Daily stimulants are a frustrating balancing act. Anti-depressants have frustrating side-effects. If I operated well without either or both, I would drop them in a hot second.
I DO benefit from medication to a degree that it has vastly improved my quality of life. I also benefit from therapy and the development of coping tools — in fact, I think anyone who benefits from medication should also seek therapy because it’s SO helpful.
This isn’t really a counterpoint to your experience, but more of a companion-point. Your post doesn’t make me think that you are an irrationally anti-pill person or anything like that. I’m just reinforcing what you’ve implied: treatment isn’t one-size-fits-all (although, at least in America, the medical system sure tries to make it that way). It’s incredibly important for anyone with ADHD to find the right tools for them.
I think sometimes it’s hard to tell whether something is interfering or not. If you’ve been squeaking by your whole life you might think this is “normal” simply because you’ve never experienced actual normal.
I go back and forth with ADHD meds. I’d say every 18 months or so I decide to take a week or two off. Sometimes that break goes on for a while because I think everything is fine and dandy. I think the longest I was off medication since starting (as an adult) was about 18 months. I can sometimes get by okay without meds, and sometimes that’s my preferred course of action, but invariably when I start taking them again I “remember” what it’s like not to have a crippling inability to do exceedingly simple tasks. And honestly, it’s kind of nice. Much less mentally exhausting.
I go back and forth with ADHD meds. I’d say every 18 months or so I decide to take a week or two off. Sometimes that break goes on for a while because I think everything is fine and dandy. I think the longest I was off medication since starting (as an adult) was about 18 months. I can sometimes get by okay without meds, and sometimes that’s my preferred course of action, but invariably when I start taking them again I “remember” what it’s like not to have a crippling inability to do exceedingly simple tasks. And honestly, it’s kind of nice. Much less mentally exhausting.
As someone who has found ADHD medication to be hugely beneficial, I completely agree with you. Treatment has its tradeoffs. In general, stimulants greatly improve my quality of life. But at the same time, they can wreck my appetite and make me prone to anxiety and irritability. And dealing with the bureaucracy of scheduled medications is a serious headache. If someone is happy with their life and their symptoms aren't negatively impacting them, then what's the point?
> If you believe you have ADHD, and your therapist believes you have ADHD, BUT your life isn't negatively impacted by it, why start treatment now?
If your life isn't negatively impacted by it then you might be hyperactive or have trouble paying attention, but you don't have ADHD, by definition. It only becomes a disorder when it's causing a significant ongoing negative impact on your life.
If your life isn't negatively impacted by it then you might be hyperactive or have trouble paying attention, but you don't have ADHD, by definition. It only becomes a disorder when it's causing a significant ongoing negative impact on your life.
I don't think you are correct. Just because the name has disorder in it does not mean you have to have a significant negative impact on your life.
It is a mental disorder. My brain functions differently than a normal functioning brain without ADHD. I have built my life in a way so that does not negatively impact my life significantly.
It is a mental disorder. My brain functions differently than a normal functioning brain without ADHD. I have built my life in a way so that does not negatively impact my life significantly.
That's the crux of it right there. I've had a wonderful, wonderful life, a rewarding career, a 30 year marriage and raised intelligent, well-grounded kids. Not just by _my_ definition, but by those around me whom I respect.
On the one hand, it doesn't sound like any possible ADHD tendencies you might have are causing you much grief. Also remember that ADHD is hugely situational - I've had a pretty great career and up until a year or two ago I wouldn't have ever suspected I fit the bill. It was only during a perfect storm of overlapping stressors that I really felt like I was struggling.
On the other hand, just because you can survive doesn't mean life has to be this hard. And looking back I now realise that much of my life I was doing just that. I was surviving, when I could have been doing so much better.
On the other hand, just because you can survive doesn't mean life has to be this hard. And looking back I now realise that much of my life I was doing just that. I was surviving, when I could have been doing so much better.
It’s literally only a disorder if it interferes with your life. Otherwise, it’s not a disorder. Like, it’s in the definition.
https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html
This is true of almost all of these disorders: no interference with life means not a disorder.
Saying “if you have no negative effects from ADHD” is the same as saying “if you’re alive when you’re dead”.
https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html
This is true of almost all of these disorders: no interference with life means not a disorder.
Saying “if you have no negative effects from ADHD” is the same as saying “if you’re alive when you’re dead”.
My personal experience with ADHD is that you are told it is a problem that needs medication, regardless of whether or not it impacts your life in a serious way.
Often, psychologists/psychiatrists/medical doctors will fail to include the literal definition of disorder. ADHD is one of those things that is a popular target for medications as a knee-jerk reaction.
That was sort of my point, I guess.
Often, psychologists/psychiatrists/medical doctors will fail to include the literal definition of disorder. ADHD is one of those things that is a popular target for medications as a knee-jerk reaction.
That was sort of my point, I guess.
On the other side of this, I wasn't sure if my life was negatively impacted or not. I decided to try out medication to see, and my wife and I instantly started noticing improvements in our lives. I was getting more done with less mental strain, and there were tons of tiny little things that she wasn't having to remember for me or worry about because I wasn't losing track of them.
YMMV.
YMMV.
I concur, and I think OP has the answer already. I went to a psychiatrist (diagnosed at age 34) because of significant problems that were getting in the way of life, but if that's not the case for you then there is no justification for the time and expense of treatment.
That's the healthiest take. Severity of any disorder is a function of its effect on the person and the person's social and life function. If these are minimal and minimal, IMO pursuing medication is really not warranted.
> Source: ADHD treatments that left me a zombie when all I really needed was therapy and help to figure out realistic, functional coping mechanisms.
A good psychiatrist will have you do all of the above.
A good psychiatrist will have you do all of the above.
I don't think treatment is always a necessary outcome, but awareness probably is. Medication helps with doing things, but if all you did was take medication, your family would still have no idea why you constantly lose your housekey or why you chronically show up late. Simply being able to establish that "these are things I'm not going to be good at" or something along those lines is an improvement.
One of the DSM criteria is literally "There is clear evidence that the symptoms interfere with, or reduce the quality of, social, school, or work functioning." So if there isn't something being affected, you don't meet the diagnosis criteria.
Thanks for your more nuanced take.
I'm a successful 33 year old adult in a career ideally suited to the way my brain works, so I was VERY skeptical about whether it would make any difference to my life to get diagnosed or go on meds. Now that I have, I can confidently say that it was a total game-changer and I wish my parents had gotten this done for me when I was a kid. It would've made so many things so much easier.
I currently only use my meds (specifinally, Vyvanse) once per week, because I don't love the side effects and I can manage fine without most of the time. On that one day per week, I do everything that my brain chemistry usually makes difficult, which is mostly paperwork and cleaning.
The difference it's made is HUGE. I went through a whole grieving process when I realized how much easier I could've had it all along. I can sit down, spend four hours doing my taxes, and then be done (and then realize the bathroom needs cleaning, and also do that), instead of sitting down, getting a snack, doing ten minutes of taxes, cuddling with the cat, starting a conversation, going on hacker news, doing ten minutes of taxes, going on hacker news, and finally finishing the taxes ten hours later at a quarter to midnight.
It's also made a huge difference to accept that some things are simply symptoms, and not signs that I'm a disorganized failure who'd too stupid to manage daily life. It's also helped to live with people who know and accept this about me, and who know that although I'm very good at managing my symptoms, sometimes things go wrong.
Yes, sometimes everyone is mildly inconvenienced because we were about to leave and now I have to go on a ten-minute WHERE IS MY WALLET tear through the house. It's fine! Sometimes, we're mildly inconvenienced because my girlfriend's insulin pumped is clogged and she needs to spend ten mins fussing with the catheter. These are things that happen when you have a chronic health condition, and no reason for anyone to get upset or berate anyone else. Accepting that has made me a much happier person.
I currently only use my meds (specifinally, Vyvanse) once per week, because I don't love the side effects and I can manage fine without most of the time. On that one day per week, I do everything that my brain chemistry usually makes difficult, which is mostly paperwork and cleaning.
The difference it's made is HUGE. I went through a whole grieving process when I realized how much easier I could've had it all along. I can sit down, spend four hours doing my taxes, and then be done (and then realize the bathroom needs cleaning, and also do that), instead of sitting down, getting a snack, doing ten minutes of taxes, cuddling with the cat, starting a conversation, going on hacker news, doing ten minutes of taxes, going on hacker news, and finally finishing the taxes ten hours later at a quarter to midnight.
It's also made a huge difference to accept that some things are simply symptoms, and not signs that I'm a disorganized failure who'd too stupid to manage daily life. It's also helped to live with people who know and accept this about me, and who know that although I'm very good at managing my symptoms, sometimes things go wrong.
Yes, sometimes everyone is mildly inconvenienced because we were about to leave and now I have to go on a ten-minute WHERE IS MY WALLET tear through the house. It's fine! Sometimes, we're mildly inconvenienced because my girlfriend's insulin pumped is clogged and she needs to spend ten mins fussing with the catheter. These are things that happen when you have a chronic health condition, and no reason for anyone to get upset or berate anyone else. Accepting that has made me a much happier person.
> I went through a whole grieving process when I realized how much easier I could've had it all along.
I was diagnosed six months ago and I have absolutely been going through the this same process. At one point I cleaned up a bunch of old boxes (some of which I'd been meaning to unpack for over a decade... yes the meds help!) and came across a folder of my old school reports. Reading through them and seeing the lifelong pattern of struggle with focus and attention that I'd just thought was normal, and that didn't have to have been that hard... I cried, a lot.
I was diagnosed six months ago and I have absolutely been going through the this same process. At one point I cleaned up a bunch of old boxes (some of which I'd been meaning to unpack for over a decade... yes the meds help!) and came across a folder of my old school reports. Reading through them and seeing the lifelong pattern of struggle with focus and attention that I'd just thought was normal, and that didn't have to have been that hard... I cried, a lot.
The grieving process was intense for the first few months. It was somewhat amazing to notice the "stages" as they happened. Anger, towards my parents and my teachers and my psychiatrist, was the hardest to deal with.
But acceptance came, and it's the best I've felt in years.
Glad to see others in this thread like yourself with such similar experiences.
But acceptance came, and it's the best I've felt in years.
Glad to see others in this thread like yourself with such similar experiences.
thanks for giving me some word for what i felt. it has definitely been a grieving process.
If you are dosing once a week, aren't you getting a pretty good hit of euphoria?
Does it matter? The important part is that you can manage it long term, and taking it once a week is sustainable.
> Does it matter?
I view the euphoria as an unsustainable side effect.
People can tell when you are high, and normally not for your positive attributes during those moments.
I view the euphoria as an unsustainable side effect.
People can tell when you are high, and normally not for your positive attributes during those moments.
The therapeutic does you get doesn't make you "high", you get a small burst of energy similar to caffeine at most, nothing unsustainable. And since "euphoria" isn't a well defines concept you could see caffeine as causing "euphoria". Certainly seems that way when people say they can't function before they get their morning coffee.
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> I view the euphoria as an unsustainable side effect.
So?
So?
Without it i would have never been able to succeed in life. For me it was the single greatest decision i have ever made in my life. I simply could not focus on anything important, I was a miserable mess.
I was a consistent grade D student in high school, I was that werido in class who everyone hated. In my final year my parents realizing I was not going to have a great future, decided to bring me to our doctor, I was prescribed Dexedrine for ADHD.
That Pill completely and utterly changed me in my final year, i could think clearly. I understood what was being said, it completely changed me. I suddenly decided to go to University for CS, forcing me to do a victory lap in high school. I was able to get into University on an amazing scholarship.
However the biggest thing was the few people who i was vaguely friends with me praised my 180 personality change, they liked being my friend.
I am now 36 years old taking the same dose of meds i have been for the last 20 years. It works for me, immensely. At the same time there is a huge stigma around ADHD medication. My ex hated the idea of me taking meds saying its big pharma pushing this, i don't need this, i just need exercise, etc. She changed her tune after she saw me not on my medication.
I know there are probably people out there that don't need this or abuse it. Sure, but that is true for almost everything.
I was a consistent grade D student in high school, I was that werido in class who everyone hated. In my final year my parents realizing I was not going to have a great future, decided to bring me to our doctor, I was prescribed Dexedrine for ADHD.
That Pill completely and utterly changed me in my final year, i could think clearly. I understood what was being said, it completely changed me. I suddenly decided to go to University for CS, forcing me to do a victory lap in high school. I was able to get into University on an amazing scholarship.
However the biggest thing was the few people who i was vaguely friends with me praised my 180 personality change, they liked being my friend.
I am now 36 years old taking the same dose of meds i have been for the last 20 years. It works for me, immensely. At the same time there is a huge stigma around ADHD medication. My ex hated the idea of me taking meds saying its big pharma pushing this, i don't need this, i just need exercise, etc. She changed her tune after she saw me not on my medication.
I know there are probably people out there that don't need this or abuse it. Sure, but that is true for almost everything.
It's important to note that an ADHD diagnosis does not necessarily end with stimulant medication. Stimulant medication can be helpful for some people, but it's not the only way to treat ADHD. Having an ADHD diagnosis could help you choose appropriate therapy methods, self-help practices, and other self-improvement measures. Of course, an ADHD diagnosis isn't necessary to begin implementing better time management practices, so I'd suggest addressing any issues you might have with time management, time boxing, and organization whether or not you have an ADHD diagnosis.
When it comes to stimulant medication anecdotes, it's important to separate them by how long the person has been taking the medication. You'll get very different answers from people who have been taking stimulants for 1 month, 1 year, or 10 years. One of the side effects (key phrase: side effect) of the first few weeks or months of stimulant medication is a sense of euphoria and extra motivation. Be careful, because this effect fades with time.
In general, I'd recommend focusing on anecdotes from people who have been treated for at least 1 year or more, while taking any reports from someone who just started medication with a huge grain of salt. In particular, I'd recommend ignoring any reports from people who are taking excessively high doses of stimulants, dosing stimulants sporadically ("as needed" isn't standard practice), or who just started taking a stimulant medication. The realities of decades of prescription stimulant have pros and cons, which aren't apparent in the first few weeks or months.
Also beware that some psychiatrists greatly overdiagnose certain conditions. Unfortunately, some practitioners are known to overdiagnose their pet condition, from depression to ADHD to anxiety. If a practitioner is pushing you toward a diagnosis or treatment you don't feel comfortable with, don't hesitate to get a second opinion.
When it comes to stimulant medication anecdotes, it's important to separate them by how long the person has been taking the medication. You'll get very different answers from people who have been taking stimulants for 1 month, 1 year, or 10 years. One of the side effects (key phrase: side effect) of the first few weeks or months of stimulant medication is a sense of euphoria and extra motivation. Be careful, because this effect fades with time.
In general, I'd recommend focusing on anecdotes from people who have been treated for at least 1 year or more, while taking any reports from someone who just started medication with a huge grain of salt. In particular, I'd recommend ignoring any reports from people who are taking excessively high doses of stimulants, dosing stimulants sporadically ("as needed" isn't standard practice), or who just started taking a stimulant medication. The realities of decades of prescription stimulant have pros and cons, which aren't apparent in the first few weeks or months.
Also beware that some psychiatrists greatly overdiagnose certain conditions. Unfortunately, some practitioners are known to overdiagnose their pet condition, from depression to ADHD to anxiety. If a practitioner is pushing you toward a diagnosis or treatment you don't feel comfortable with, don't hesitate to get a second opinion.
> It's important to note that an ADHD diagnosis does not necessarily end with stimulant medication. Stimulant medication can be helpful for some people, but it's not the only way to treat ADHD.
One may not need medication, but also don't be TOO reluctant to use medications. After my diagnosis, I fell back into the "Now that I know, I should be able to do this with will power and todo lists" trap and resisted medication for too long. Going on medication was, and is, life changing for me (16 months later).
The rest of your advice is dead on!
One may not need medication, but also don't be TOO reluctant to use medications. After my diagnosis, I fell back into the "Now that I know, I should be able to do this with will power and todo lists" trap and resisted medication for too long. Going on medication was, and is, life changing for me (16 months later).
The rest of your advice is dead on!
> dosing stimulants sporadically ("as needed" isn't standard practice),
Interesting, I take adderall "as needed" and my doctor is fine with it. He prescribed it for daily use but said I can take it as needed.
Interesting, I take adderall "as needed" and my doctor is fine with it. He prescribed it for daily use but said I can take it as needed.
My doctor actually prescribes a regime of holidays from the stimulants. It is becoming a fairly common practice.
> It's important to note that an ADHD diagnosis does not necessarily end with stimulant medication
I expect this is truer for adults, as they have agency over the matter. Children don't get a choice.
I expect this is truer for adults, as they have agency over the matter. Children don't get a choice.
ADHD diagnosis didn’t help me live a better life, it helped me live a normal life.
During college and my first job, I was constantly stressed and depressed from my terrible productivity. I couldn’t even bring myself to do things I wanted to do —- the only thing that mattered was the next dopamine hit. I made so many goals and failed every single one, and with each failure I blamed myself even more. The problem with having ADHD is that it causes you to procrastinate on getting the diagnosis in the first place! In the end, I had to accept that “just try harder” isn’t a valid strategy.
OP, I know my experience isn’t similar to yours at all, but just know that mental illness treatment almost always helps you reach your goals, and don’t procrastinate on it.
During college and my first job, I was constantly stressed and depressed from my terrible productivity. I couldn’t even bring myself to do things I wanted to do —- the only thing that mattered was the next dopamine hit. I made so many goals and failed every single one, and with each failure I blamed myself even more. The problem with having ADHD is that it causes you to procrastinate on getting the diagnosis in the first place! In the end, I had to accept that “just try harder” isn’t a valid strategy.
OP, I know my experience isn’t similar to yours at all, but just know that mental illness treatment almost always helps you reach your goals, and don’t procrastinate on it.
Living in Europe, my perception (AKA: anecdotal / unscientific / non-measured) is that most of the ADHD-diagnosed people I know live in the US, while I only know one European person in my network who received similar diagnosis from a professional psychiatrist. Counterintuitively, I know way more European people than Americans, which makes my perception feel even more skewed.
I very well know that my sample(ing method) could be wrong, it can be a coincidence, etc etc.
So my questions are:
* anyone else have similar experience in their friend circles?
* is there a higher number of ADHD diagnosis in tech / wealthy population? (considering that most of my American friends/colleagues are from tech, this would somewhat explain)
* do I miss something obvious? (e.g. maybe Europeans would never discuss their diagnosis with friends, etc.)
I very well know that my sample(ing method) could be wrong, it can be a coincidence, etc etc.
So my questions are:
* anyone else have similar experience in their friend circles?
* is there a higher number of ADHD diagnosis in tech / wealthy population? (considering that most of my American friends/colleagues are from tech, this would somewhat explain)
* do I miss something obvious? (e.g. maybe Europeans would never discuss their diagnosis with friends, etc.)
One hypothesis is that, in the country where you live, there is more stigma around ADHD in adults and it is more frequently ignored or dismissed.
It is an easy condition to ignore —- adults with ADHD are frequently not very “hyperactive” because even if they were as children, they’ve learned to modulate that behavior through experience.
The traits of inattentive-only ADHD are often written off as laziness when in reality that person is experiencing executive dysfunction that makes prioritization of tasks difficult. A common feature of ADHD is to be frequently paralyzed by indecision.
It’s not uncommon for those first diagnosed as adults to be completely blindsided by the disorder.
It is an easy condition to ignore —- adults with ADHD are frequently not very “hyperactive” because even if they were as children, they’ve learned to modulate that behavior through experience.
The traits of inattentive-only ADHD are often written off as laziness when in reality that person is experiencing executive dysfunction that makes prioritization of tasks difficult. A common feature of ADHD is to be frequently paralyzed by indecision.
It’s not uncommon for those first diagnosed as adults to be completely blindsided by the disorder.
Which raises another question:
- How bad can it be, if it stays undiagnosed?
- How bad can it be, if it stays undiagnosed?
It's kind of like needing to wear glasses; all you know is that everything looks blurry, and as far as you know that's how everyone sees. And if you struggle to see clearly, well, that's your problem.
My guess is that it stays undiagnosed because doctors aren't trained to make the connection between untreated ADHD (as an adult) and the disparate consequences it has on one's life.
My guess is that it stays undiagnosed because doctors aren't trained to make the connection between untreated ADHD (as an adult) and the disparate consequences it has on one's life.
My wife was diagnosed with ADD (ADHD-I) at 20 (no points for H at all, literally none).
When all stimuli hit you at the same level it's really tiring. Someone clicking their pen, bird chirping outside, someone coughing in the hallway or the classroom next to you, someone picking his nose in the corner of your eyes etc. She isn't able to filter them at all.
I've come home to the place being flooded because she ran a bath but remembered she needed to do something in the kitchen, and that prompted something else, etc. We've fought because of little things, but those little things combined with having to process every single stimuli the world throws at you is difficult. If you're focusing on work, or just sitting around do you even register the things going on outside? She does. At the same 'volume' as the thing she's trying to focus on.
In high school she missed more classes than she went to. She was deemed lazy, dumb, and uncaring. We have three levels in the Netherlands and she barely completed the lowest one. Mainly because she was home sleeping, or just wandering off with her mind, migraines - you name it.
When she had to write school reports for a specific class the teacher would be baffled by the report. It went from the actual subject to a few pages of an English report, then a chapter of economics. I always imagined it as her having to go to the bathroom, coming back and remembering 'Shit I needed to write that book report for English class'. Because, obviously, this was only started just before or even after the deadline.
You'd think the schoolsystem would raise an alarm right? Nah, she wasn't exactly 'trouble' as in being busy / shouting / name any typical bad behaviour. She was just chaotic and 'dumb'. Real easy conclusion, especially when you have kids getting in fights and smoking joints - at least she was trying to do her homework.
So she missed a lot of opportunities, felt really bad about herself to put it lightly, and the migraines are a bitch too. I don't know if that's how bad it can be when undiagnosed but yeah. When the psychiatrist did the sessions / tried medications they also took an IQ test which indicated that when the world is not throwing stimuli at her (well it still is, but with the help of the meds she can filter it) she's actually really fucking intelligent (remember the lowest level she barely passed, could've easily done the highest level and moved on to university). After years of hard work catching up she did complete a BA and I couldn't be prouder. It's not easy believing in yourself after so many years of people saying you're dumb and lazy.
When all stimuli hit you at the same level it's really tiring. Someone clicking their pen, bird chirping outside, someone coughing in the hallway or the classroom next to you, someone picking his nose in the corner of your eyes etc. She isn't able to filter them at all.
I've come home to the place being flooded because she ran a bath but remembered she needed to do something in the kitchen, and that prompted something else, etc. We've fought because of little things, but those little things combined with having to process every single stimuli the world throws at you is difficult. If you're focusing on work, or just sitting around do you even register the things going on outside? She does. At the same 'volume' as the thing she's trying to focus on.
In high school she missed more classes than she went to. She was deemed lazy, dumb, and uncaring. We have three levels in the Netherlands and she barely completed the lowest one. Mainly because she was home sleeping, or just wandering off with her mind, migraines - you name it.
When she had to write school reports for a specific class the teacher would be baffled by the report. It went from the actual subject to a few pages of an English report, then a chapter of economics. I always imagined it as her having to go to the bathroom, coming back and remembering 'Shit I needed to write that book report for English class'. Because, obviously, this was only started just before or even after the deadline.
You'd think the schoolsystem would raise an alarm right? Nah, she wasn't exactly 'trouble' as in being busy / shouting / name any typical bad behaviour. She was just chaotic and 'dumb'. Real easy conclusion, especially when you have kids getting in fights and smoking joints - at least she was trying to do her homework.
So she missed a lot of opportunities, felt really bad about herself to put it lightly, and the migraines are a bitch too. I don't know if that's how bad it can be when undiagnosed but yeah. When the psychiatrist did the sessions / tried medications they also took an IQ test which indicated that when the world is not throwing stimuli at her (well it still is, but with the help of the meds she can filter it) she's actually really fucking intelligent (remember the lowest level she barely passed, could've easily done the highest level and moved on to university). After years of hard work catching up she did complete a BA and I couldn't be prouder. It's not easy believing in yourself after so many years of people saying you're dumb and lazy.
Thanks for the elaborate answer.
> If you're focusing on work, or just sitting around do you even register the things going on outside?
I actually do, and took me a while to realize that not everyone experiences surroundings as I do. Definitely can relate to this, and some of the other patterns you and others described here.
> If you're focusing on work, or just sitting around do you even register the things going on outside?
I actually do, and took me a while to realize that not everyone experiences surroundings as I do. Definitely can relate to this, and some of the other patterns you and others described here.
She sounds lucky to have someone that would take the time to understand her experience. Good job man.
How bad can cancer be, if it stays undiagnosed?
There are lots of serious conditions that, if left undiagnosed, are quite damaging or fatal.
Plus, it's often especially difficult to see how psychological/psychiatric problems affect oneself. It's easy to misattribute causes or misunderstand conditions. There are posts in this very discussion that tell how damaging undiagnosed ADHD has been.
There are lots of serious conditions that, if left undiagnosed, are quite damaging or fatal.
Plus, it's often especially difficult to see how psychological/psychiatric problems affect oneself. It's easy to misattribute causes or misunderstand conditions. There are posts in this very discussion that tell how damaging undiagnosed ADHD has been.
Its the difference between being capable of joining Google and being unable to get anything better than McDonalds or similar. Sure you can go through life working minimum wage jobs and never see a doctor about it, but I certainly feel my life is better on medication. Basically it is the "I could do it if I just wanted/tried', and adhd was what prevented the person from wanting/trying.
American here. Lived the first 30 years of my life in the States, the next 20 in France/UK and have worked (temporarily at least) in most major European cities.
I think you are on to something with you last point. One long-standing joke about Americans is that within 5 minutes of meeting them you'll know more about their bank account, hopes/fears/dreams, and their lower colon than you'll ever know about your best European friend in a lifetime.
I'm not judging. We (Americans) are simply open about lots of personal details to everyone. We're a bit like the golden labs of humankind. If someone will listen, we're happy to talk about anything.
Europeans on the other hand (this is another BIG generalisation) are definitely much more private especially when it comes to health. I've been in the UK for quite a while now and I struggle to even learn the names of my neighbours two doors down. Good luck borrowing a cup of sugar around here. In the states I actually let someone use my shower! I knew him from passing in the hallway and he had a job interview in an hour but lost his keys.
Anyhow...I digress. #4 is my choice. Access to good healthcare is NOT a cause. But I don't want to go there and start a discussion on the pros/cons of socialised medicine. It always ends in shouting. :D
I think you are on to something with you last point. One long-standing joke about Americans is that within 5 minutes of meeting them you'll know more about their bank account, hopes/fears/dreams, and their lower colon than you'll ever know about your best European friend in a lifetime.
I'm not judging. We (Americans) are simply open about lots of personal details to everyone. We're a bit like the golden labs of humankind. If someone will listen, we're happy to talk about anything.
Europeans on the other hand (this is another BIG generalisation) are definitely much more private especially when it comes to health. I've been in the UK for quite a while now and I struggle to even learn the names of my neighbours two doors down. Good luck borrowing a cup of sugar around here. In the states I actually let someone use my shower! I knew him from passing in the hallway and he had a job interview in an hour but lost his keys.
Anyhow...I digress. #4 is my choice. Access to good healthcare is NOT a cause. But I don't want to go there and start a discussion on the pros/cons of socialised medicine. It always ends in shouting. :D
> Access to good healthcare is NOT a cause.
It is one of the causes, Europe is more than France/UK.
It is one of the causes, Europe is more than France/UK.
Fellow European here - at least in Poland it is virtually impossible to get diagnosed as an adult, and there is very little knowledge of ADHD among mental health prpfessionals.
ADHD affects around 5% population, as various studies have shown. In Poland we have virtually 0% adults diagnosed an on treatmnt, and I don’t know a single therapist that wI could confidently recommend to a person seeking diagnosis/treatment. (And I looked and asked around a lot).
By comparison, in SF there is a dedicated clinic for adult ADHD, not to mention therapists aware of such thing.
ADHD affects around 5% population, as various studies have shown. In Poland we have virtually 0% adults diagnosed an on treatmnt, and I don’t know a single therapist that wI could confidently recommend to a person seeking diagnosis/treatment. (And I looked and asked around a lot).
By comparison, in SF there is a dedicated clinic for adult ADHD, not to mention therapists aware of such thing.
I’ve been diagnosed in France at 29. I had the chance to find a therapist that was aware of ADHD and transferred me to a specialist at the local hospital.
But it looks like I had been really lucky because France health authorities does not currently acknowledge the existence of adult ADHD.
That would explain why no one in Europe talks about it. I would add that since symptoms are really vague when explained, there is some sort of taboo when you talk about it because ADHD is just a sum of symptoms that, individually, are very common amongst the population.
But it looks like I had been really lucky because France health authorities does not currently acknowledge the existence of adult ADHD.
That would explain why no one in Europe talks about it. I would add that since symptoms are really vague when explained, there is some sort of taboo when you talk about it because ADHD is just a sum of symptoms that, individually, are very common amongst the population.
I live in a smaller EU country and I tried to have a professional check me out, as I have a lot of problems with procrastination, productivity, paying bills on time etc.
I tried asking around (including asking some organization that deal with ADHD in children) for a recommendation for a psychiatrists that deals with ADHD in adults and couldn't get any.
After months of deliberation I finally hyped myself up to get an appointment with any psychiatrist in the local hospital, just to see if they will be of any help and could maybe refer me to someone else. They didn't even seem to know what I was talking about, said that I was obviously fine as I managed to graduate from a university and recommended that I have children to give me a sense of direction in life. So, yeah, good luck to anyone who has adult ADHD here.
I tried asking around (including asking some organization that deal with ADHD in children) for a recommendation for a psychiatrists that deals with ADHD in adults and couldn't get any.
After months of deliberation I finally hyped myself up to get an appointment with any psychiatrist in the local hospital, just to see if they will be of any help and could maybe refer me to someone else. They didn't even seem to know what I was talking about, said that I was obviously fine as I managed to graduate from a university and recommended that I have children to give me a sense of direction in life. So, yeah, good luck to anyone who has adult ADHD here.
The obvious answer is that in America drugs are advertised on TV, and if you see a lot of ads for ADHD medication you might be more aware of the possibility that you have ADHD, and it could be normalised. After all the stereotype of American zombie kids on Ritalin was being bandied about 10-20 years ago? Whereas ADHD is still relatively not well known in most European countries.
The UK was the same for autism about 10-15 years ago, it was barely talked about, now every class has 10-20% children diagnosed with autism and we have autism-friendly hours in cinemas/shops etc, nobody blinks an eye if you go out wearing big headphones etc. The same may happen for adult ADHD too.
The UK was the same for autism about 10-15 years ago, it was barely talked about, now every class has 10-20% children diagnosed with autism and we have autism-friendly hours in cinemas/shops etc, nobody blinks an eye if you go out wearing big headphones etc. The same may happen for adult ADHD too.
I’m American in the tech industry. A majority of my close friends and I are diagnosed with ADD (I count 4 off the top of my head). Some people on my work team are open about their diagnoses as well.
It was difficult for me to admit to my family, friends and colleagues that I was being medicated for ADD. It took me four months before anyone besides my wife knew. The reason I came out with it is because some of the struggles reared their heads again. I realized that the people around me who have struggled with similar problems might also need a sympathetic ear, as I do.
Ultimately, my hesitance to discuss my diagnosis is due to fear of judgement (will people think I’m lazy or a druggy?) or fear that people may begin attributing my successes to the drugs.
It was difficult for me to admit to my family, friends and colleagues that I was being medicated for ADD. It took me four months before anyone besides my wife knew. The reason I came out with it is because some of the struggles reared their heads again. I realized that the people around me who have struggled with similar problems might also need a sympathetic ear, as I do.
Ultimately, my hesitance to discuss my diagnosis is due to fear of judgement (will people think I’m lazy or a druggy?) or fear that people may begin attributing my successes to the drugs.
tech / wealthy people have more access to healthcare in the USA
That might explain why in america more people in tech are diagnosed with ADHD, but would provide evidence against fewer people in europe being diagnosed with ADHD than in america (which is what the poster is asking about) since they have more access to healthcare, and it's not income dependent.
To answer the OP's question, I seem to recall that people with ADHD are more prone to be entrepreneurial (I believe a higher appetite for risk is the general explanation). Here is an article [0].
This would explain things if the people you know in tech happen to work for tech startups.
[0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/dalearcher/2014/05/14/adhd-the-...
To answer the OP's question, I seem to recall that people with ADHD are more prone to be entrepreneurial (I believe a higher appetite for risk is the general explanation). Here is an article [0].
This would explain things if the people you know in tech happen to work for tech startups.
[0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/dalearcher/2014/05/14/adhd-the-...
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Same in Canada. I haven't even bothered pursuing the diagnosis as it's a massive pain to get doctors to take things like this seriously in a socialised system.
In Europe, drugs cost the government money. In America, drugs cost you (and your employer) money.
There's a genetic component - as there is for Openness, which is higher on the West than the East Coast of the US.
So, maybe ADHD types were the first to leave Europe for the Americas?
So, maybe ADHD types were the first to leave Europe for the Americas?
I have similar observations, and your suggested explanations seem reasonable but I have nothing but anecdata either way. I have known a lot of people in tech in the US from whom I've gotten the distinct impression they are formally diagnosed with ADHD and perhaps on medication.
I have also known a lot of people who tend to self-diagnose problems that I suspect they don't really have and then talk about them a lot (such as ADHD). They're usually the people who are fixated on vaccines and 5G as the cause of many health problems, but they typically won't have much interaction with "establishment" doctors on these issues. It's my impression that this is more common in the US than Europe, but it's a distinct issue. Not sure if some of that is mixed in to your observations?
I have also known a lot of people who tend to self-diagnose problems that I suspect they don't really have and then talk about them a lot (such as ADHD). They're usually the people who are fixated on vaccines and 5G as the cause of many health problems, but they typically won't have much interaction with "establishment" doctors on these issues. It's my impression that this is more common in the US than Europe, but it's a distinct issue. Not sure if some of that is mixed in to your observations?
An adhd diagnosis helped me a lot in my late 20s.
I took Ritalin for a brief period and it opened my eyes to different ways of seeing things. I actually believe in Ritalin more than adhd diagnoses. But it stopped being effective for me after a while, and same for most people i know. Also, side effects. But getting perspective helped me change certain behaviors which were causing problems for me.
But honestly, and this is very forward to say, I would stop seeing this therapist. I have had similar experiences to you, where I try to go to a therapist for one thing, and they send me down some other road entirely. This has never been helpful. Generally it has been destructive. Therapists are like everyone else, in that many of them aren’t that good. And just like how a bad mechanic can cost you money and ruin your car, so can a bad or even mediocre therapist screw up your life. Seriously. Don’t be pushed into some random diagnosis by some therapist who has some idea in their head.
I took Ritalin for a brief period and it opened my eyes to different ways of seeing things. I actually believe in Ritalin more than adhd diagnoses. But it stopped being effective for me after a while, and same for most people i know. Also, side effects. But getting perspective helped me change certain behaviors which were causing problems for me.
But honestly, and this is very forward to say, I would stop seeing this therapist. I have had similar experiences to you, where I try to go to a therapist for one thing, and they send me down some other road entirely. This has never been helpful. Generally it has been destructive. Therapists are like everyone else, in that many of them aren’t that good. And just like how a bad mechanic can cost you money and ruin your car, so can a bad or even mediocre therapist screw up your life. Seriously. Don’t be pushed into some random diagnosis by some therapist who has some idea in their head.
Thank you for articulating a concern I have.
I was diagnosed about a year ago (I'll be 34 tomorrow).
I went to the therapist to ~figure out if~ confirm that I was on the Autism spectrum, and they pointed out that it sounded like there was some ADHD too, so it was something very unexpected for me. In hindsight, very obvious too.
It's been very insightful. On the more personal side, it's helped me understand a lot about my life and why so many things went they way they went. It's now clear that some teachers were _hinting_ the issue at my parents in school, but they never picked up on that.
On a more practical side, medication has helped a lot in focusing better and work and alike. However, it IS a tool, and you need to learn to use it. Having ADHD is like aiming your attention at things with a shotgun, and medication turns that into a sniper -- you can direct your focus very well, but it takes some training to learn _how_ to do that.
It's also important to balance it out. I take far less on the weekends since that helps wind down a lot.
I came across this youtube channel recently which is pretty interesting. It's always useful to hear how others have dealt with the same struggles: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-nPM1_kSZf91ZGkcgy_95Q
I went to the therapist to ~figure out if~ confirm that I was on the Autism spectrum, and they pointed out that it sounded like there was some ADHD too, so it was something very unexpected for me. In hindsight, very obvious too.
It's been very insightful. On the more personal side, it's helped me understand a lot about my life and why so many things went they way they went. It's now clear that some teachers were _hinting_ the issue at my parents in school, but they never picked up on that.
On a more practical side, medication has helped a lot in focusing better and work and alike. However, it IS a tool, and you need to learn to use it. Having ADHD is like aiming your attention at things with a shotgun, and medication turns that into a sniper -- you can direct your focus very well, but it takes some training to learn _how_ to do that.
It's also important to balance it out. I take far less on the weekends since that helps wind down a lot.
I came across this youtube channel recently which is pretty interesting. It's always useful to hear how others have dealt with the same struggles: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-nPM1_kSZf91ZGkcgy_95Q
“How to ADHD” is a fantastic resource. She’s honest, funny, and reaches out to professionals to make sure she isn’t fertilizing her audience.
I was diagnosed with ADHD 7 months ago. The diagnosis and medication have been life-changing.
I was 'high-functioning', in much the same way as OP: stable marriage, successful career, not much savings but at least not in any debt.
But I also suffered from depression, anxiety, extreme procrastination, substance abuse, risky and impulsive behaviour.
Of course I saw psychiatrists, and they stopped listening the moment I said "depression" and prescribed the usual drugs, which did nothing for me. Luckily my 3rd psychiatrist listened a bit better and referred me for tests.
Since diagnosis I have started medication (methylphenidate/Ritalin, the only real option in the country I live in) my life has significantly improved. My procrastination is almost entirely gone (now maybe 4 hours a week "wasted" instead of 3+ days of being unable to do anything productive), my work performance is drastically improved, I'm losing weight (no longer dopamine-hunting with food), my wife says I'm doing more 'chores' and forgetting little things (spoon in the sink instead of the dishwasher) less often.
My depression and anxiety have disappeared. I still get overwhelmed in loud/busy environments. I still have emotional overreactions to small annoyances. I still forget things, and procrastinate a little. But the key thing is acceptance. I understand why these things are happening now, and that understanding makes them less hard to do live with.
Even if you don't start medication (and I suggest you do, it's provably incredibly effective for most cases) the biggest thing you can do is learn. You will be amazed for the first 6 months at least that such a massive amount of your life has truly been affected and so much of your 'unique personality' is shared with other ADHD adults.
My psychiatrist answered my same question "How can I have ADHD if my life is like this?" with "But how hard was it?". Success despite ADHD doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It just means you developed coping strategies for your deficiencies. And if you're in therapy for family issues then clearly those strategies are not working sufficiently.
I was 'high-functioning', in much the same way as OP: stable marriage, successful career, not much savings but at least not in any debt.
But I also suffered from depression, anxiety, extreme procrastination, substance abuse, risky and impulsive behaviour.
Of course I saw psychiatrists, and they stopped listening the moment I said "depression" and prescribed the usual drugs, which did nothing for me. Luckily my 3rd psychiatrist listened a bit better and referred me for tests.
Since diagnosis I have started medication (methylphenidate/Ritalin, the only real option in the country I live in) my life has significantly improved. My procrastination is almost entirely gone (now maybe 4 hours a week "wasted" instead of 3+ days of being unable to do anything productive), my work performance is drastically improved, I'm losing weight (no longer dopamine-hunting with food), my wife says I'm doing more 'chores' and forgetting little things (spoon in the sink instead of the dishwasher) less often.
My depression and anxiety have disappeared. I still get overwhelmed in loud/busy environments. I still have emotional overreactions to small annoyances. I still forget things, and procrastinate a little. But the key thing is acceptance. I understand why these things are happening now, and that understanding makes them less hard to do live with.
Even if you don't start medication (and I suggest you do, it's provably incredibly effective for most cases) the biggest thing you can do is learn. You will be amazed for the first 6 months at least that such a massive amount of your life has truly been affected and so much of your 'unique personality' is shared with other ADHD adults.
My psychiatrist answered my same question "How can I have ADHD if my life is like this?" with "But how hard was it?". Success despite ADHD doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It just means you developed coping strategies for your deficiencies. And if you're in therapy for family issues then clearly those strategies are not working sufficiently.
Thanks! Sounds like we share similar experiences.
I was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, and unless it's actually having a negative impact on your life, I wouldn't bother trying to get it treated. I saw a therapist because I was really struggling with college, like taking an hour to read a single page in a textbook because I would get distracted and forget what I read.
Personally, my ritalin prescription makes me irritable so I take a reduced dose when I'm not actively working on things. My wife has told me that she prefers my personality when I don't take the medication.
Finally, and take this with a grain of salt because I'm not a doctor of any sort, but I don't think having ADHD is necessarily a problem, and is more a problem with how society expects people to spend their life sitting still and focusing on one thing all day.
Personally, my ritalin prescription makes me irritable so I take a reduced dose when I'm not actively working on things. My wife has told me that she prefers my personality when I don't take the medication.
Finally, and take this with a grain of salt because I'm not a doctor of any sort, but I don't think having ADHD is necessarily a problem, and is more a problem with how society expects people to spend their life sitting still and focusing on one thing all day.
you may want to talk to your doctor about other options for medications. I'm not going to name names but there are much slower, longer acting meds that are precursor drugs that you metabolize into the drug, for example.
I finally decided to talk to someone about this about two years ago, in my mid-30's. I was always able to achieve satisfactory results in school, work, etc. without have to dedicate myself too much. As I got older, it became clear to me that other people were able to focus substantially more than me for longer periods of time. The more I read up about Adult ADHD, the more it became very obvious that I had it.
I've found that adderrall, for me, has been very helpful and has not really produced any negative side-effects. I don't take it on the weekends and will skip a week or so every now and then, just to get a read on how I'm feeling without it.
One thing to keep in mind is to check your expectations. Normal stimulant dosing for treating ADHD is not going to make you limitless. Your mind will be able to stay more focused but you need to actively use that focus to start developing organizational frameworks that you can work within. Building these frameworks and habits and sticking to them was extremely difficult prior to medication but now that I have them, I find it much easier to skip the meds and still be able to be as productive as I want to be.
I would recommend you find someone who specializes in Adult ADHD, especially one that has experience dealing with otherwise competent professionals because they'll be able to help you make the most of your treatment.
Also, no matter how much you might beat yourself up over lot being able to live up to the standards you'd like, please be grateful for what you've accomplished even with your limits. Unfortunately a lot of people with untreated (and even treated) ADHD fall into vicious cycles of risky behavior and end up with crippling addictions to drugs, gambling, sex, and other dopamine-producing behaviors.
I've found that adderrall, for me, has been very helpful and has not really produced any negative side-effects. I don't take it on the weekends and will skip a week or so every now and then, just to get a read on how I'm feeling without it.
One thing to keep in mind is to check your expectations. Normal stimulant dosing for treating ADHD is not going to make you limitless. Your mind will be able to stay more focused but you need to actively use that focus to start developing organizational frameworks that you can work within. Building these frameworks and habits and sticking to them was extremely difficult prior to medication but now that I have them, I find it much easier to skip the meds and still be able to be as productive as I want to be.
I would recommend you find someone who specializes in Adult ADHD, especially one that has experience dealing with otherwise competent professionals because they'll be able to help you make the most of your treatment.
Also, no matter how much you might beat yourself up over lot being able to live up to the standards you'd like, please be grateful for what you've accomplished even with your limits. Unfortunately a lot of people with untreated (and even treated) ADHD fall into vicious cycles of risky behavior and end up with crippling addictions to drugs, gambling, sex, and other dopamine-producing behaviors.
I was 30 (8 years ago) when I was diagnosed with it, but my teachers and friends had joked about my “ADD” since I was a kid.
A coworker was talking about their kid’s diagnosis and mentioned a bunch of the things they checked for and a little light bulb went off like “maybe I really do have it?”
I did well in school, tested extremely high in everything, and the few times my IQ was tested it was quite high. I also spent a lot of time in the hallway at school because I was a disruptive pain in the ass. Impulse issues (not violent) like class clown type stuff. I was popular, was good at sports, and got good grades- had any of those things not been in my favor I likely would’ve been sent to an alternative high school due to disciplinary issues.
I managed to accidentally find many of the coping mechanisms they teach about by myself over the years: - EVERYTHING goes in the calendar - Everything has a place and ALWAYS goes there or it will not be found - I cannot over schedule my day, but I must have routines
After my formal diagnosis and months of therapy I reluctantly agreed to give a stimulant a try. I opted for one that is longer acting and takes longer to activate so as to avoid any “sped up” feelings.
It’s been amazing for me. We found the right dose fairly quickly, and I don’t even notice when it kicks in. Usually an hour or so after I take it.
It’s just like if a loud party was going on in your brain and you stepped outside and shut the door. All your competing thoughts quiet. I am so happy to have found it and it has allowed me to be more present and less internally anxious in most of life’s situations.
Could I live without it? Yep. I did for most of my life. Would it be as effect without all the work I did before? Maybe. I wouldn’t bet on it though.
My recommendation for anyone is basically this: the pills can do wonders but some day you won’t have them or can’t take them anymore. Make them the backup to the skills you’ll have for the rest of your life. Do the therapy, read the books, get the help. Then try the pill.
A coworker was talking about their kid’s diagnosis and mentioned a bunch of the things they checked for and a little light bulb went off like “maybe I really do have it?”
I did well in school, tested extremely high in everything, and the few times my IQ was tested it was quite high. I also spent a lot of time in the hallway at school because I was a disruptive pain in the ass. Impulse issues (not violent) like class clown type stuff. I was popular, was good at sports, and got good grades- had any of those things not been in my favor I likely would’ve been sent to an alternative high school due to disciplinary issues.
I managed to accidentally find many of the coping mechanisms they teach about by myself over the years: - EVERYTHING goes in the calendar - Everything has a place and ALWAYS goes there or it will not be found - I cannot over schedule my day, but I must have routines
After my formal diagnosis and months of therapy I reluctantly agreed to give a stimulant a try. I opted for one that is longer acting and takes longer to activate so as to avoid any “sped up” feelings.
It’s been amazing for me. We found the right dose fairly quickly, and I don’t even notice when it kicks in. Usually an hour or so after I take it.
It’s just like if a loud party was going on in your brain and you stepped outside and shut the door. All your competing thoughts quiet. I am so happy to have found it and it has allowed me to be more present and less internally anxious in most of life’s situations.
Could I live without it? Yep. I did for most of my life. Would it be as effect without all the work I did before? Maybe. I wouldn’t bet on it though.
My recommendation for anyone is basically this: the pills can do wonders but some day you won’t have them or can’t take them anymore. Make them the backup to the skills you’ll have for the rest of your life. Do the therapy, read the books, get the help. Then try the pill.
That's a pretty wise take on meds and skills.
I've recently considered if I've always had ADHD and have gone back and forth on it in my head. On one hand, symptoms sound common to most people. On the other there's a lot of anecdotes that match my life to a tee.
I was "gifted" in school growing up. I breezed through school ages 5-12 with ease but loathing homework. At 11, a teacher told my parent and I that I'm able to get great grades now by intellect, but when college comes I'll come to a reckoning unless I also learn to study and put in time to do the work.
Ages 13 - 20 were just a continuous slide down in academics. I spent all my time zoned into various MMORPG's, video games, and obsessed about an outdoor sport. Couldn't stay awake in class and never did any homework. But I'd manage to skirt out some A's on math and chemistry tests (learning on the fly), do some crucial projects at the last possible minute, midnight to 5am the night before, and managed to graduate with a 2.5 gpa (C's and B's).
When it came to college, it was the same until I realized I needed to get better grades to transfer to a real University, so I had one amazing year I got A's, got in, and then it was business as usual. Worst person at staying on top of homework in friend groups, constantly more distracted by video games, only completed C's by doing projects at the last absolute moment midnight to 5am.
At work, I'm constantly distracted by HN, and only get through projects by a sudden burst of sheer deadline fear at the end. I was falling behind and finally buckling, until I tried some Adderall secondhand. Suddenly I felt like I had X, Y, Z to do, and I spent my day going from X to Y to Z and couldn't believe how much I was getting done. Eventually I lost this source, used it 1/3 tapered down to little effect, and stopped, conflicted. Due to various reasons, I've burnt out and haven't been able to attempt any real work for 6 months, basically spending half my time on HN.
Guess I'm just hoping someone knowledgeable would be able to confidently tell me what's been going on. I probably need to see a psychologist.
I was "gifted" in school growing up. I breezed through school ages 5-12 with ease but loathing homework. At 11, a teacher told my parent and I that I'm able to get great grades now by intellect, but when college comes I'll come to a reckoning unless I also learn to study and put in time to do the work.
Ages 13 - 20 were just a continuous slide down in academics. I spent all my time zoned into various MMORPG's, video games, and obsessed about an outdoor sport. Couldn't stay awake in class and never did any homework. But I'd manage to skirt out some A's on math and chemistry tests (learning on the fly), do some crucial projects at the last possible minute, midnight to 5am the night before, and managed to graduate with a 2.5 gpa (C's and B's).
When it came to college, it was the same until I realized I needed to get better grades to transfer to a real University, so I had one amazing year I got A's, got in, and then it was business as usual. Worst person at staying on top of homework in friend groups, constantly more distracted by video games, only completed C's by doing projects at the last absolute moment midnight to 5am.
At work, I'm constantly distracted by HN, and only get through projects by a sudden burst of sheer deadline fear at the end. I was falling behind and finally buckling, until I tried some Adderall secondhand. Suddenly I felt like I had X, Y, Z to do, and I spent my day going from X to Y to Z and couldn't believe how much I was getting done. Eventually I lost this source, used it 1/3 tapered down to little effect, and stopped, conflicted. Due to various reasons, I've burnt out and haven't been able to attempt any real work for 6 months, basically spending half my time on HN.
Guess I'm just hoping someone knowledgeable would be able to confidently tell me what's been going on. I probably need to see a psychologist.
Yeah, go to the doctor man.
Not taking care of yourself is one of the worse symptoms of ADHD/mental illness. I stopped taking my meds back in December and just started seeing my psychiatrist today.
Not taking care of yourself is one of the worse symptoms of ADHD/mental illness. I stopped taking my meds back in December and just started seeing my psychiatrist today.
I spoke to my doctor last year about this, was referred to a therapist, and was diagnosed (I’m a bit younger (32) and like you continue to grow, have a long-term stable marriage, good savings, great life. There were a lot of signs, but primarily I had trouble staying focused even for a few minutes. To have a productive morning and not get derailed, I would need to have an app like Routinery to walk me through what I needed to do step by step before work.
I decided against medication for a few reasons, but to deal with it is a daily exercise. I have to put up guardrails or I can lose hours / day with distracted activity. I find it’s tightly correlated to how much time I spend on technology.
Meditation, prayer, down time from technology (physical news paper and Economist in the mornings) all help to start the day focused. I’m considering re-arranging the house to have a room dedicated to technology and everything else in the house be low-tech, higher quality forms of recreation (books, musical instruments, board games, etc). That will, in theory, allow me to put time boundaries on how often I’m around technology. Another big thing I did was stop drinking. I did an A/B test at the start of 2020 - 2 months not drinking followed by 4 months of drinking, and by June I decided I was done. I still taste different things if my wife has one or I’m making drinks for others, but haven’t had a full drink since last June. NA beers have been great.
Books that helped me: make time, essentialism, digital minimalism, (an extreme but easy read recommended on here) - “better off”
Part of my hesitancy for medicine was that I didn’t want it rooted in self-improvement / optimization. I think there was some burn out mixed in and I was looking for the next step to optimization with medicine. I figured it would be better to fix the system rather than over-optimize for what I was doing. If I can’t naturally deal with it, then maybe I shouldn’t be running that hard.
If I get two-three hours of focus now per day it’s great.
Perfect is the enemy of the good, and I am generally happy and see no need for that much optimization. If it was really impacting my work and life, I’d reconsider medicine.
I decided against medication for a few reasons, but to deal with it is a daily exercise. I have to put up guardrails or I can lose hours / day with distracted activity. I find it’s tightly correlated to how much time I spend on technology.
Meditation, prayer, down time from technology (physical news paper and Economist in the mornings) all help to start the day focused. I’m considering re-arranging the house to have a room dedicated to technology and everything else in the house be low-tech, higher quality forms of recreation (books, musical instruments, board games, etc). That will, in theory, allow me to put time boundaries on how often I’m around technology. Another big thing I did was stop drinking. I did an A/B test at the start of 2020 - 2 months not drinking followed by 4 months of drinking, and by June I decided I was done. I still taste different things if my wife has one or I’m making drinks for others, but haven’t had a full drink since last June. NA beers have been great.
Books that helped me: make time, essentialism, digital minimalism, (an extreme but easy read recommended on here) - “better off”
Part of my hesitancy for medicine was that I didn’t want it rooted in self-improvement / optimization. I think there was some burn out mixed in and I was looking for the next step to optimization with medicine. I figured it would be better to fix the system rather than over-optimize for what I was doing. If I can’t naturally deal with it, then maybe I shouldn’t be running that hard.
If I get two-three hours of focus now per day it’s great.
Perfect is the enemy of the good, and I am generally happy and see no need for that much optimization. If it was really impacting my work and life, I’d reconsider medicine.
You and I share similar methods! Most of my technology is in the office, and we are surrounded by books and musical instruments. I am an artist (designer by trade, moved into technology consulting).
I definitely agree with drinking (and weed), it is very negative, and the effects last days for me.
I definitely agree with drinking (and weed), it is very negative, and the effects last days for me.
I have recently been diagnosed while being in a very similar situation as you. I have had and still have a successful career, I'm in a stable relationship, have good savings and a great life.
I've been seen as gifted as a child so fit within the so-called twice exceptional criteria...
I don't regret getting diagnosed and having confirmation of it (I ran relatively extensive tests to confirm this which took 8 hours in total and cost me quite a bit).
In my case, it's been helpful because I'm moving more and more towards management and ADHD is sometimes detrimental to some of my new responsibilities. Knowing that I have ADHD and reading about resources to manage it has certainly been helpful.
I was prescribed Concerta which is helpful on some days when I need to work on things that are extremely boring and that I'd normally have a hard time doing. However, I take it less than 4 times a month, so extremely rarely. I have however noticed that I cannot take it on days when I am sleep deprived as it would cause me to become extremely sleepy.
I've been seen as gifted as a child so fit within the so-called twice exceptional criteria...
I don't regret getting diagnosed and having confirmation of it (I ran relatively extensive tests to confirm this which took 8 hours in total and cost me quite a bit).
In my case, it's been helpful because I'm moving more and more towards management and ADHD is sometimes detrimental to some of my new responsibilities. Knowing that I have ADHD and reading about resources to manage it has certainly been helpful.
I was prescribed Concerta which is helpful on some days when I need to work on things that are extremely boring and that I'd normally have a hard time doing. However, I take it less than 4 times a month, so extremely rarely. I have however noticed that I cannot take it on days when I am sleep deprived as it would cause me to become extremely sleepy.
My wife and I both started Adderall in adulthood. She has the hyperactive, can't watch a whole movie type ADHD and I have the absent-minded, a couple hours can go by before I realize I'm not working type.
She got her life together after starting treatment and can now handle a lot of responsibilities and a demanding job. It only helps me a little, and I still have trouble with motivation and self-discipline. She divorced me.
She got her life together after starting treatment and can now handle a lot of responsibilities and a demanding job. It only helps me a little, and I still have trouble with motivation and self-discipline. She divorced me.
Since this post will likely attract my people, I'm curious how folks with an ADHD diagnosis have adapted to working from home. If possible, separate the comfort of it from the productivity of it.
I find personally that it's much more comfortable working from home, and while there have been many 'blown days' due to lapses in discipline, I can have days where I crush it as well. Open plan office environments are like someone is jamming my brain with a microwave, I can't accomplish anything. High-walled cubicle environments are better but all it takes is someone with a smelly lunch or wheezy breath and I'm off track.
I find personally that it's much more comfortable working from home, and while there have been many 'blown days' due to lapses in discipline, I can have days where I crush it as well. Open plan office environments are like someone is jamming my brain with a microwave, I can't accomplish anything. High-walled cubicle environments are better but all it takes is someone with a smelly lunch or wheezy breath and I'm off track.
Either dedicate a room to study and work or change the environment when you have to
(like assigning a specific color with led lights). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snAhsXyO3Ck
If that doesn't work, I would go out and study in a library or park.
If that doesn't work, I would go out and study in a library or park.
I needed to setup a separate office for work stuff and work stuff only before I really got into a WFH rhythm. Definitely have experiences that match yours in office environment.
Same. I had to physically separate myself from my personal computer because I frequently found myself working on side projects, playing video games, or literally anything else that grabbed my attention.
Day 3 of a salt water only fast gives me a level of focus I could cut diamonds with. No drugs necessary. I've had better long term success with ADHD with increased fat intake and decreased carbohydrate intake.
It's helped me understand the pros and cons of an ADHD diagnosis, it good to know that you're not alone in a sea of neurotypical people. It's helpful to understand ADHD and share your learning with people who are close to you. For me and it seems like you as well, the challenge hasn't been with work and life in general but more with relationships with people closest to me - read up on RSD. It's also fun to understand all those coping mechanisms you've developed over the years. Use it as an opportunity to learn and explore.
Thank you, I will certainly look into this.
I do not (AFAIK) suffer from ADHD, but having been in therapy for a while for other issues I had a similar concern at one point: I had a bunch of problems I wanted to talk about, I thought my therapist was missing the obvious and following a red herring with her questions. But she mentioned a book on a disorder and I read it: it was like reading a book written just about my personality. I had heard of the disorder, kind of a lot, actually, but it was nothing like what I had inferred. Understanding it better helped break a lot of unproductive cycles of thought.
If you're inclined to not treat your ADHD with drugs, I think that's admirable. But IMO it's important to have a period of time in therapy where you don't hold back and really try to understand everything that's going on with you. There's a great answer to your question in one of my favorite podcasts [1]. The wife in that relationship was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult and, similarly: recognized herself in a lot of the symptoms that she didn't actually think were typical of ADHD. She's now on medication (some of the time, I think), but just knowing that was an underlying condition helped her, her husband, and her family manage a lot of relationship problems better.
[1] https://www.nottheworstmarriage.com/episodes/mental-health-a...
If you're inclined to not treat your ADHD with drugs, I think that's admirable. But IMO it's important to have a period of time in therapy where you don't hold back and really try to understand everything that's going on with you. There's a great answer to your question in one of my favorite podcasts [1]. The wife in that relationship was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult and, similarly: recognized herself in a lot of the symptoms that she didn't actually think were typical of ADHD. She's now on medication (some of the time, I think), but just knowing that was an underlying condition helped her, her husband, and her family manage a lot of relationship problems better.
[1] https://www.nottheworstmarriage.com/episodes/mental-health-a...
Throwaway since I'll be discussing some fairly personal topics.
I was diagnosed over a decade ago at the age of 19 and have been in treatment ever since. The changes as a result of getting medication and attending therapy have be profound and decidedly mixed. One thing I'm just going to say upfront is that if anyone reading this thread decides to seek treatment, please don't solely rely on medication. The medication allows your ADHD to become manageable, but crucially it does not manage it for you.
Good changes:
1) Social life immediately and greatly improved. I was able to hold my attention when talking to people. My tangents became less wandering and frequent. I had the focus to make plans and actually follow through with them. I texted people back (this alone was huge).
2) I lose things less often. Before starting treatment I was notorious among my family and peer group for losing things. I still lose things all the time, but now it's usually because I put something down in my house rather than losing things in public.
3) Improved physical health. The appetite suppressant aspect of stimulants play a role here, but I think the bigger thing here is less impulsive food choices. Because I just don't feel as hungry, I have to plan my meals better and so I eat healthier. It's also easier to stick to an exercise schedule.
4) I can sit still and be quiet. Looking back at my childhood, it should have been fairly obvious what was going on, but I believe the mindset was medication was only for kids with poor academic achievement. The scale of lost time has been personally frustrating, but I am grateful for not being put on medication when I was young child.
Bad Changes:
1) Massively increased libido. The stimulants can increase sex drive, but can also make orgasm more difficult while also sometimes making it more difficult to maintain an erection. While these last two can be frustrating on a personal level, the hyper sexuality can be quite destructive when not kept in check.
2) The hyper focus aspects of ADHD are now basically on all the time. Medication is less a guided missile and more a laser. Instead of taking it and 'magically' getting things done, your attention is now dialed into whatever you point it at. This can be extremely productive, or not. I have less 'lost days' than I did before seeking treatment but those days now have a greater intensity.
3) It can be easy to get into stimulant fueled cycles of self-destruction. I need to be very disciplined about getting enough food and sleep. The drugs make it easy to shrug off a night or two of little sleep. But using drugs to ignore my body leads to much worse ADHD symptoms then if I hadn't been taking the drugs at all.
4) There is a distinct difference in my personality on days when I take my drugs and days I do not; see Good Changes, point (1). This can be hard for other people, especially romantic partners, to deal with.
Overall I'm happy that I've pursued medication in combination with therapy. It has let me get a handle on my life, but anyone who says it's all good is not telling the truth.
I was diagnosed over a decade ago at the age of 19 and have been in treatment ever since. The changes as a result of getting medication and attending therapy have be profound and decidedly mixed. One thing I'm just going to say upfront is that if anyone reading this thread decides to seek treatment, please don't solely rely on medication. The medication allows your ADHD to become manageable, but crucially it does not manage it for you.
Good changes:
1) Social life immediately and greatly improved. I was able to hold my attention when talking to people. My tangents became less wandering and frequent. I had the focus to make plans and actually follow through with them. I texted people back (this alone was huge).
2) I lose things less often. Before starting treatment I was notorious among my family and peer group for losing things. I still lose things all the time, but now it's usually because I put something down in my house rather than losing things in public.
3) Improved physical health. The appetite suppressant aspect of stimulants play a role here, but I think the bigger thing here is less impulsive food choices. Because I just don't feel as hungry, I have to plan my meals better and so I eat healthier. It's also easier to stick to an exercise schedule.
4) I can sit still and be quiet. Looking back at my childhood, it should have been fairly obvious what was going on, but I believe the mindset was medication was only for kids with poor academic achievement. The scale of lost time has been personally frustrating, but I am grateful for not being put on medication when I was young child.
Bad Changes:
1) Massively increased libido. The stimulants can increase sex drive, but can also make orgasm more difficult while also sometimes making it more difficult to maintain an erection. While these last two can be frustrating on a personal level, the hyper sexuality can be quite destructive when not kept in check.
2) The hyper focus aspects of ADHD are now basically on all the time. Medication is less a guided missile and more a laser. Instead of taking it and 'magically' getting things done, your attention is now dialed into whatever you point it at. This can be extremely productive, or not. I have less 'lost days' than I did before seeking treatment but those days now have a greater intensity.
3) It can be easy to get into stimulant fueled cycles of self-destruction. I need to be very disciplined about getting enough food and sleep. The drugs make it easy to shrug off a night or two of little sleep. But using drugs to ignore my body leads to much worse ADHD symptoms then if I hadn't been taking the drugs at all.
4) There is a distinct difference in my personality on days when I take my drugs and days I do not; see Good Changes, point (1). This can be hard for other people, especially romantic partners, to deal with.
Overall I'm happy that I've pursued medication in combination with therapy. It has let me get a handle on my life, but anyone who says it's all good is not telling the truth.
*1) Massively increased libido. The stimulants can increase sex drive, but can also make orgasm more difficult while also sometimes making it more difficult to maintain an erection. While these last two can be frustrating on a personal level, the hyper sexuality can be quite destructive when not kept in check.*
I had this on Adderall, I was switched to Desoxyn and had no issue with it. On Adderall even medicine like Viagra would not improve the side effects. That was a show stopper for me, and really frustrating that it actually increased drive.
*2) The hyper focus aspects of ADHD are now basically on all the time. Medication is less a guided missile and more a laser. Instead of taking it and 'magically' getting things done, your attention is now dialed into whatever you point it at. This can be extremely productive, or not. I have less 'lost days' than I did before seeking treatment but those days now have a greater intensity.* I would agree with this description for me as well, though I can choose where the focus goes and I can choose when to disengage. To me it had been a net plus.
*3) It can be easy to get into stimulant fueled cycles of self-destruction. I need to be very disciplined about getting enough food and sleep. The drugs make it easy to shrug off a night or two of little sleep. But using drugs to ignore my body leads to much worse ADHD symptoms then if I hadn't been taking the drugs at all.*
Agreed 100%, it is easy to fall into a cycle of well I can take my second dose later and squeeze some more hours out of the night. As far as food, that is the one really bad side effect of Desoxyn, Adderall suppressed my appetite, Desoxyn completely eliminated it, I can go days without eating and never have the urge to if I do not monitor it. At first I did not care because I was about 60lbs overweight, I am now slim could loose 10 more and be fit, but I am certainly not overweight anymore. I view this as a net positive given the long term ability to manage my weight, but now I stay on top of it.
*4) There is a distinct difference in my personality on days when I take my drugs and days I do not; see Good Changes, point (1). This can be hard for other people, especially romantic partners, to deal with.*
This is the one I hear from people but, the only thing my wife has said about me, is when my first dose kicks in, my feet hit the floor and I am going. I used to take an hour to get ready in the morning, I would do one thing, sit down, do another sit down. It took an hour to feel like I was just slightly awake.
I had this on Adderall, I was switched to Desoxyn and had no issue with it. On Adderall even medicine like Viagra would not improve the side effects. That was a show stopper for me, and really frustrating that it actually increased drive.
*2) The hyper focus aspects of ADHD are now basically on all the time. Medication is less a guided missile and more a laser. Instead of taking it and 'magically' getting things done, your attention is now dialed into whatever you point it at. This can be extremely productive, or not. I have less 'lost days' than I did before seeking treatment but those days now have a greater intensity.* I would agree with this description for me as well, though I can choose where the focus goes and I can choose when to disengage. To me it had been a net plus.
*3) It can be easy to get into stimulant fueled cycles of self-destruction. I need to be very disciplined about getting enough food and sleep. The drugs make it easy to shrug off a night or two of little sleep. But using drugs to ignore my body leads to much worse ADHD symptoms then if I hadn't been taking the drugs at all.*
Agreed 100%, it is easy to fall into a cycle of well I can take my second dose later and squeeze some more hours out of the night. As far as food, that is the one really bad side effect of Desoxyn, Adderall suppressed my appetite, Desoxyn completely eliminated it, I can go days without eating and never have the urge to if I do not monitor it. At first I did not care because I was about 60lbs overweight, I am now slim could loose 10 more and be fit, but I am certainly not overweight anymore. I view this as a net positive given the long term ability to manage my weight, but now I stay on top of it.
*4) There is a distinct difference in my personality on days when I take my drugs and days I do not; see Good Changes, point (1). This can be hard for other people, especially romantic partners, to deal with.*
This is the one I hear from people but, the only thing my wife has said about me, is when my first dose kicks in, my feet hit the floor and I am going. I used to take an hour to get ready in the morning, I would do one thing, sit down, do another sit down. It took an hour to feel like I was just slightly awake.
My daughter was diagnosed with dyslexia three years ago and then at the onset of at home learning late last spring we realized something else was up. After neuro testing she was diagnosed with ADHD. She's on a daily dose of Focalin and the difference is night and day when she's on/off it.
During this time of getting my daughter tested and researching the subject I realized I have many of the same symptoms she does. My wife for years has thought I have ADD which I would casually brush off since I was (and am) a successful electrical engineer. But the WFH was a real struggle for me and my focus and I think I was able to mask it for years. So I went through a full neuro evaluation and it turns out I don't have ADHD just slow processing. I struggle to really dig in and get started on a task for longer than 10-20 minutes. So after talking with my doctor I started taking Amphetamine Salt (aka Adderall).
I do notice a difference on and off the drug. On it I can sit and focus for long stretches of time. It is not a "miracle drug." I still struggle at times with getting started on a task. It won't help the what do I work on first problem. But once that decision has been made I can sit and flat grind through stuff. I don't normally take it on the weekends.
The neuro eval was good to help me better understand my brain and why I do certain things and so it helps me know what to work on. I recommend getting it. Think of it like any other diagnostic tool that a Dr. has (ekg, colonoscopy, etc..) - it just gives you more information on your body.
During this time of getting my daughter tested and researching the subject I realized I have many of the same symptoms she does. My wife for years has thought I have ADD which I would casually brush off since I was (and am) a successful electrical engineer. But the WFH was a real struggle for me and my focus and I think I was able to mask it for years. So I went through a full neuro evaluation and it turns out I don't have ADHD just slow processing. I struggle to really dig in and get started on a task for longer than 10-20 minutes. So after talking with my doctor I started taking Amphetamine Salt (aka Adderall).
I do notice a difference on and off the drug. On it I can sit and focus for long stretches of time. It is not a "miracle drug." I still struggle at times with getting started on a task. It won't help the what do I work on first problem. But once that decision has been made I can sit and flat grind through stuff. I don't normally take it on the weekends.
The neuro eval was good to help me better understand my brain and why I do certain things and so it helps me know what to work on. I recommend getting it. Think of it like any other diagnostic tool that a Dr. has (ekg, colonoscopy, etc..) - it just gives you more information on your body.
> how would this help me...
File this under Know Thyself.
You may not actually need the professional diagnosis to confirm this hunch. Moving forward, assume it’s likely true.
Incidentally, Peter Shankman has an excellent podcast where he interviews people with ADHD from all walks of life. > https://www.fasterthannormal.com/a-special-love-w-shauna-dan...
File this under Know Thyself.
You may not actually need the professional diagnosis to confirm this hunch. Moving forward, assume it’s likely true.
Incidentally, Peter Shankman has an excellent podcast where he interviews people with ADHD from all walks of life. > https://www.fasterthannormal.com/a-special-love-w-shauna-dan...
You may need the diagnosis if you want to start medication. If you don't care about medication it might be nice to know what you're suffering from (if you're suffering from it), and how this may impact your life and that of the people around you.
First: less guilt (especially important as I had a Catholic upbringing). Before I believed that I am failing at being an adult, and that my parents were right that I am too messy, chaotic, etc.
Second, getting help. I got the most from HowToADHD YouTube Channel, the "Driven to Distraction" book, and conversations with friends having ADHD and working in tech (some other life situations are no that relevant).
Third, started taking Modafinil. It helps me a lot!
Second, getting help. I got the most from HowToADHD YouTube Channel, the "Driven to Distraction" book, and conversations with friends having ADHD and working in tech (some other life situations are no that relevant).
Third, started taking Modafinil. It helps me a lot!
I'll check out the book, thanks!
There could be consequences, btw. Like being barred from getting a pilots license in US if you'd ever acquire a taste for flying for example.
+1. If you're doing well & aren't curious to try prescription drugs, don't get diagnosed. Live your life, no need to bother being classified somewhere in the non-NT taxonomy where if you're not acting weird in the same way as everyone else you need to be labelled with your brain put in the appropriate cupboard of mason jars
Late 30’s diagnosis for ADHD, who went to school to fly in college. Here’s my hot take:
Being barred from a pilots license is a good thing.
I look back on that time, and I’m shocked I didn’t crash the damned aircraft. I couldn’t focus when landing (executive focus disfunction), I would freak out randomly (emotional disregulation), and I gave at least one of my instructors several grey hairs when landing.
When you’re a pilot, you can’t afford to not be paying attention.
Being barred from a pilots license is a good thing.
I look back on that time, and I’m shocked I didn’t crash the damned aircraft. I couldn’t focus when landing (executive focus disfunction), I would freak out randomly (emotional disregulation), and I gave at least one of my instructors several grey hairs when landing.
When you’re a pilot, you can’t afford to not be paying attention.
Same goes for operating a car. How many accidents are caused by distracted driving?
The good news is that medication may mitigates the symptoms so you can focus on driving or flying safely.
The bad news is the FAA says you can't use the medication while flying nor can you have an active diagnosis. So if you have ever been diagnosed with ADHD, even as a child, your only option is to go through an expensive testing process to prove you don't have ADHD anymore. Or some people just lie. Easiest and most dangerous approach is to never be diagnosed in the first place.
The FAA is rewarded for caution, not inclusivity. But they are making changes, like very recently making exceptions to allow diabetics to be pilots: https://www.diabetes.org/resources/know-your-rights/discrimi.... Just know that a diagnosis can never been deleted.
The good news is that medication may mitigates the symptoms so you can focus on driving or flying safely.
The bad news is the FAA says you can't use the medication while flying nor can you have an active diagnosis. So if you have ever been diagnosed with ADHD, even as a child, your only option is to go through an expensive testing process to prove you don't have ADHD anymore. Or some people just lie. Easiest and most dangerous approach is to never be diagnosed in the first place.
The FAA is rewarded for caution, not inclusivity. But they are making changes, like very recently making exceptions to allow diabetics to be pilots: https://www.diabetes.org/resources/know-your-rights/discrimi.... Just know that a diagnosis can never been deleted.
Slightly different perspective: I was diagnosed as a child, but had assumed I had "mastered it" and went off meds and let it go for several years. What I've come to realize is that I've still had it, just that I've structured the parts of my life that I could around it and let other parts suffer for no real reason. That kind of fell apart (the rest of the way) when my wife had her second child and a few days before I was suppose to come back from paternity leave the my office shut down along with the rest of the world.
I had to come to terms with the fact that I had not grown out of it, I just subconsciously geared everything (my environment, the kind of work I took on and was good at, my compartmentalization) around it, and honestly not in a very healthy way.
(P.S. I just recently wrote a piece about my experience with ADHD and how it presents to me <https://aarontag.dev/2021/05/13/adhd.html>)
I had to come to terms with the fact that I had not grown out of it, I just subconsciously geared everything (my environment, the kind of work I took on and was good at, my compartmentalization) around it, and honestly not in a very healthy way.
(P.S. I just recently wrote a piece about my experience with ADHD and how it presents to me <https://aarontag.dev/2021/05/13/adhd.html>)
ADHD is a disease/difference of executive function-- how your internal world interfaces with your external world. It totally makes sense that you had a tough go of it when you experienced major life changes.
Yeah, my world would have been flip-turned upside down as it is. The real kicker was realizing that I had not considered remote work at all when we picked our apartment. We've just bought our first house and it's much better now, but trying to work at ALL for the first 3 or 4 months was truly awful.
I’ve been on a low dose of Ritalin for a few months now and it’s been life changing. I was self medicating with a lot of caffeine (which definitely wasn’t good for me) and I couldn’t really choose when my brain would kick in. Sometimes it’d be at like 9 pm and I’d just work till 2am. Not great for someone trying to have a normal sleep schedule. Medication has helped me add some scheduling to my brain. I take a small dose in the morning and another in the afternoon; I feel focused the entire day, and I’m tired when I come home. I’ve been on a good sleep schedule for quite some time now, my caffeine consumption lowered a good bit, and I do feel happier. Maybe it’s the meds, maybe it’s a side effect of feeling like I can actually be a performant human during work hours. Either way, I’ll take it.
I think it’s worth at least exploring medication. I did a blind trial with my doctor to see how it affected me and that made me feel a bit more confident that this was a good route.
I was diagnosed at age 44 and it made me reevaluate the course of my entire life. It took me a few years to adjust adequately and I'm still adjusting at 51. Learning about ADHD and effective strategies to deal with it has helped. Getting to know other people with ADHD has been the most helpful of all. I suggest searching YouTube for reactions to ADHD memes: it's a little painful on account of so much truth being told, but also nice to feel less alone.
My experience with meds might be interesting: I work in a customer-facing technical role where my soft skills are paramount. Taking stimulants was disorienting, but helped me manage emotions very well. They worked well for focus, but killed my ability to be fundamentally nice. I might have been able to adapt in time, but I would have had to change careers in the meantime. I now take buproprion and it works well enough on motivation without causing social problems.
My experience with meds might be interesting: I work in a customer-facing technical role where my soft skills are paramount. Taking stimulants was disorienting, but helped me manage emotions very well. They worked well for focus, but killed my ability to be fundamentally nice. I might have been able to adapt in time, but I would have had to change careers in the meantime. I now take buproprion and it works well enough on motivation without causing social problems.
About the same here. ADD was being said instead of ADHD.
I learned to recognise the signs. I think just being aware of something going on your mind is enough to cure.
ADD/ADHD, I don't see it as a decease, more as a gift. Take the good things and learn to recognise the bad.
I always worried why I would have amazing productive hours and then sometimes days of inproductivity. Now I now (and everyone around me) that I'm best when in these 2 states. It took a lot of mental stress away by just accepting instead of trying to change.
It was also very important to let my surroundings know how my clock ticks. Really high highs and sometimes pretty long lows. In the end I get the job done and thats what matters.
I learned to recognise the signs. I think just being aware of something going on your mind is enough to cure.
ADD/ADHD, I don't see it as a decease, more as a gift. Take the good things and learn to recognise the bad.
I always worried why I would have amazing productive hours and then sometimes days of inproductivity. Now I now (and everyone around me) that I'm best when in these 2 states. It took a lot of mental stress away by just accepting instead of trying to change.
It was also very important to let my surroundings know how my clock ticks. Really high highs and sometimes pretty long lows. In the end I get the job done and thats what matters.
Thanks! There's a good book that follows your line of thinking: "Refuse to Choose" by Barbara Sher.
I got a diagnosis after two failed marriages, a stalled career, issues around emotional dysregulation and rejection sensitivity.
The diagnosis, and resulting treatment, changed my life.
Not sure it will help you given you don't seem to be suffering from it.
The diagnosis, and resulting treatment, changed my life.
Not sure it will help you given you don't seem to be suffering from it.
Thank you, I'm sorry to hear you've suffered.
Thanks! I shared my story so you could sort of contrast negative impacts of ADHD I experienced with your own situation (though there is lots of that here now :-).
I would suggest that, whatever you decide, you take the time to understand the impacts that ADHD can have on your friends, family and co-workers and check in with them to make sure you are not having more impact than you think.
I would suggest that, whatever you decide, you take the time to understand the impacts that ADHD can have on your friends, family and co-workers and check in with them to make sure you are not having more impact than you think.
Having a diagnosis gives you the option to try medication of several varieties that are not otherwise legally available to you in the US.
For some people the medications Just Work, with no negative side effects. If they do that for you it could be a big win, but one you can't safely or lawfully test without getting a diagnosis.
It also gives you a well-defined problem statement for tackling the "lingering family issue" and for communicating with your family about differences between your neurological wiring and theirs that all of you need to cope with, if you do come up with a diagnosis.
For some people the medications Just Work, with no negative side effects. If they do that for you it could be a big win, but one you can't safely or lawfully test without getting a diagnosis.
It also gives you a well-defined problem statement for tackling the "lingering family issue" and for communicating with your family about differences between your neurological wiring and theirs that all of you need to cope with, if you do come up with a diagnosis.
My first reaction would be to say that if you are doing fine, don't worry about it. Yet, you sought out therapy for a family issue, and that therapist went to this place. Odds are that they believe it would help. So I'd be asking this question to your therapist, not to us. They know the details of the situation and are a professional, whereas we are neither.
After all, a therapist is a partner in your treatment, not a dictator. If you express discomfort at this idea and tell them so, they should be able to work with that.
After all, a therapist is a partner in your treatment, not a dictator. If you express discomfort at this idea and tell them so, they should be able to work with that.
After being diagnosed 3 years ago, the improvements are that I now have a tool to help me get things done, I can set expectations more sensibly with others that respect me, and I at least have a framework for setting my expectations of myself. It hasn't helped me keep a job yet, in part because my last employer didn't accept that I couldn't be expected to respond to customers in a timely manner or that I really couldn't tolerate the open office eating sounds. It hasn't yet helped me recover from burnout which I have a tendency to succumb to, and I'm now more than a year out of work for the 2nd or 3rd time this decade. It doesn't help me respond to stress in the way that society is kind of set up to take advantage of. No amount of external pressure will influence me to do anything differently than I'd do otherwise, unless I'm able to internalize a need to do it. As soon I feel like an external pressure is arbitrary, the structure around it collapses. It hasn't helped my horrendously offset sleep cycle, memory (which might be negatively impacted also by concussions or whatever else). It does help me understand how I get into conversations with random people on the street that can last for hours, and my partner isn't all that surprised anymore.
I’m 36 and about two years ago I stumbled into reading about the experience of what it’s like to have ADHD. As resistant as I was (and I was very resistant to the idea that I could have ADHD) I couldn’t ignore the fact that what I was reading was like it was written about me. The only moment in my life where I’ve had such a striking sudden feeling of understanding myself is when I realized I was gay (I was probably 10 or 12.)
I ended up seeking out and went through the entire process of neuropsych evaluation, never having been in therapy or anything similar in my life. The experience felt thorough and science based.
The outcome was inconclusive. I scored abysmally on many parts of the evaluation, and my history was pretty typical of someone with ADHD - constant academic struggles, a hard time building interpersonal relationships, trouble managing my emotions… amongst other things.
The counter-points they offered - on paper I’m in a successful career, have a successful marriage, and I’ll be the first to admit that I’m obsessively organized in some areas of my life (probably to a fault. As a child I definitely was not.) They chalked my struggles up to anxiety and I pretty much stopped pursuing the idea that I might have ADHD.
Stumbling across a lot of people here who seem to have had similar experiences I’m back to wondering if it’s something I should explore again. I feel like every day I’m struggling through things that come easily to a lot of people, putting in 3x the time for 0.75 the output. I also know that I’m someone who, for whatever reason, has a high tolerance for un-ideal situations.
I ended up seeking out and went through the entire process of neuropsych evaluation, never having been in therapy or anything similar in my life. The experience felt thorough and science based.
The outcome was inconclusive. I scored abysmally on many parts of the evaluation, and my history was pretty typical of someone with ADHD - constant academic struggles, a hard time building interpersonal relationships, trouble managing my emotions… amongst other things.
The counter-points they offered - on paper I’m in a successful career, have a successful marriage, and I’ll be the first to admit that I’m obsessively organized in some areas of my life (probably to a fault. As a child I definitely was not.) They chalked my struggles up to anxiety and I pretty much stopped pursuing the idea that I might have ADHD.
Stumbling across a lot of people here who seem to have had similar experiences I’m back to wondering if it’s something I should explore again. I feel like every day I’m struggling through things that come easily to a lot of people, putting in 3x the time for 0.75 the output. I also know that I’m someone who, for whatever reason, has a high tolerance for un-ideal situations.
A lot of people are speaking about medication, which is great, but I will give a different perspective. Getting the diagnosis made me a better and more empathetic human being.
Getting the diagnosis allowed me to be open about this with my peers, and understand that while I am flawed in a way I can't really control anymore. I will never have focus, but I pay off by being passionate. It helped come to terms that I will never be a specialist, and accept that I am a generalist, and that's how I bring value to the world. Nowadays, I bring ADHD and generalism during interviews, because not every company has processes setup for the kind of work I enjoy doing.
It made me better understand why my partner is not able to take the same risks as I do. For example, if I don't like my work I just quit, I don't overthink. But risk-taking behavior is an ADHD trait, so it makes sense that other people don't want to take as much risk as I do, and in our relationship it's actually good we have someone more stable.
The diagnosis helped explore my frustrations, helped me be ok with the fact that I will change hobbies all the time, that I will change jobs all the time, that I will change roles all the time, because that makes me happy.
Getting the diagnosis allowed me to be open about this with my peers, and understand that while I am flawed in a way I can't really control anymore. I will never have focus, but I pay off by being passionate. It helped come to terms that I will never be a specialist, and accept that I am a generalist, and that's how I bring value to the world. Nowadays, I bring ADHD and generalism during interviews, because not every company has processes setup for the kind of work I enjoy doing.
It made me better understand why my partner is not able to take the same risks as I do. For example, if I don't like my work I just quit, I don't overthink. But risk-taking behavior is an ADHD trait, so it makes sense that other people don't want to take as much risk as I do, and in our relationship it's actually good we have someone more stable.
The diagnosis helped explore my frustrations, helped me be ok with the fact that I will change hobbies all the time, that I will change jobs all the time, that I will change roles all the time, because that makes me happy.
My advice: get a second opinion from a cognitive behavioural therapist. If you are already high functioning and happy with your life, mind altering drugs (which ADHD prescriptions most definitely are) could be a loaded foot-gun. CBT on the other hand is literally the same body of techniques used under other names by top athletes, musicians, and anyone else for whom real-time mental focus is a huge part of their career.
Please note, I am not saying ADHD does not exist, nor am I saying that the Rx's are not necessarily wonderful for some people, nor am I anti-drug. I have no doubt that for some people ADHD medication has been a life-saver. But it doesn't sound like you necessarily are one of those people, and there is no doubt a problem with a segment of the psychiatric profession being very quick to prescribe drug based solutions. The fact that you exhibit what your current doctor calls symptoms is not necessarily justification for changing anything or adopting a new drug regime. And we can all benefit from the mental discipline of CBT practices. I had an ex go through a CBT program for social anxiety and it was life changing for her - without drugs.
Please note, I am not saying ADHD does not exist, nor am I saying that the Rx's are not necessarily wonderful for some people, nor am I anti-drug. I have no doubt that for some people ADHD medication has been a life-saver. But it doesn't sound like you necessarily are one of those people, and there is no doubt a problem with a segment of the psychiatric profession being very quick to prescribe drug based solutions. The fact that you exhibit what your current doctor calls symptoms is not necessarily justification for changing anything or adopting a new drug regime. And we can all benefit from the mental discipline of CBT practices. I had an ex go through a CBT program for social anxiety and it was life changing for her - without drugs.
As an example, I had a doctor prescribe me anti-psychosis medication in small doses for a really bad bout of migraines, medication which had known mood changing side-effects.
I needed glasses.
I needed glasses.
I am medicated for ADHD, and my goal is to one day get off the meds, maybe in 5-10 years. Sounds like you've been functioning pretty well without them, which is a great reason NOT to start.
Have you gotten any encouragement from people in your life to investigate ADHD, or is it just this therapist? I was encouraged by teachers and loved ones to look into it starting in grade 2, finally got a diagnosis about 5 years back.
Have you gotten any encouragement from people in your life to investigate ADHD, or is it just this therapist? I was encouraged by teachers and loved ones to look into it starting in grade 2, finally got a diagnosis about 5 years back.
The therapist, really. Kind of came out of nowhere.
I am terrified of getting on meds, and my wife (a doctor) is also against them.
I am terrified of getting on meds, and my wife (a doctor) is also against them.
Sounds like you have an intuitive read on the situation and maybe needed a bit of backup? My ADHD is bad enough that I barely graduated high school, and I'm totally sold on medication as a tool, but in this case it sounds like a hammer looking for nails.
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Perhaps it would help you put less emphasis on your own goals and help those around you. I don't know how else someone would answer this question, because obviously the problems that a lot of people with ADHD suffer from are not the ones you have. But that's one area where it's helped my partner understand some of my shortcomings. You haven't admitted a single shortcoming, and perhaps that's part of the problem that an ADHD diagnosis would help. Almost like a semi-functional alcoholic not realing that despite a successful career, they always smell like alcohol and do nothing but spend time drinking.
They wouldn't be exploring this unless it was presenting an issue that's reasonably explained by this, so I'd say it's worth doing. It may or may not be helpful, but putting your goals ahead of therapy seems unwise. And actually now that I think about it, this is one of the things an adhd diagnosis did help me with. Perspective. I'm much less self-absorbed and try to be more open and caring where I catch myself being dumb.
They wouldn't be exploring this unless it was presenting an issue that's reasonably explained by this, so I'd say it's worth doing. It may or may not be helpful, but putting your goals ahead of therapy seems unwise. And actually now that I think about it, this is one of the things an adhd diagnosis did help me with. Perspective. I'm much less self-absorbed and try to be more open and caring where I catch myself being dumb.
The biggest help is that you understand why certain things happen to you so that you can accept and move on from them, rather than be eternally confused and ashamed that you seem to have greater challenges with basic things than everyone else. You can do things to treat the symptoms, but there's something to be said about also accepting who you are and being able to laugh at yourself.
My doctor tells me that there is some theories that ADHD may be an evolutionary response to dangers in our environment. (like avoiding lions or being alerted to changes in weather) When I think about it this way I feel better about rejecting medications (or accepting them). Personally just understanding the pros/cons of ADHD has helped me identify some of my shortcomings. For example, I can focus for days on the wrong topic, so I need to be aware of this so I don't work on something unimportant and then get burned out. When I don't know the right thing to work on and break it into concrete steps I find myself unable to accomplish anything at all for days or weeks jumping from task to task every 5 mins.
So I suggest you explore this to learn about yourself so that you can take the newfound information to make the best steps toward your personal/career/etc goals. That may be disregarding everything they suggest and refusing treatment, but understanding more about yourself and how your mind works cant be a bad thing can it?
So I suggest you explore this to learn about yourself so that you can take the newfound information to make the best steps toward your personal/career/etc goals. That may be disregarding everything they suggest and refusing treatment, but understanding more about yourself and how your mind works cant be a bad thing can it?
> So I suggest you explore this to learn about yourself so that you can take the newfound information to make the best steps toward your personal/career/etc goals. That may be disregarding everything they suggest and refusing treatment, but understanding more about yourself and how your mind works cant be a bad thing can it?
I did that for 50 years before the diagnosis, I decided to try what my therapist suggested.
I did that for 50 years before the diagnosis, I decided to try what my therapist suggested.
Thank you! I do agree that, researching, I see that there are things that have been nagging me for years, but not enough to really need a fix. I work in technical and creative capacities, so I don't to dull an edge with medication.
seeking diagnosis but seems very likely from professionals ive been assessed by.
just a note, i’m not looking for feedback or criticism of these things im experiencing.
accepting i might have adhd helped me in a few ways:
1. i could stop being quite so hard on myself for fucking up (usually organisational stuff)
2. i’ve started separating the parts of my identity i took on as an explanation for my needs (e.g low frustration threshold means i need minimalism and convenience). which is useful because now im starting to see what i “need” to function well and what i actually value.
3. ive started to build my life in ways that enable me to overcome stuff. e.g i thought i was very introverted and need alone time (and it turns out i am and do) but i need things to help me engage with boring tasks and other people are so engaging. so now i try to book in time to pair on boring tasks.
5. i absolutely cannot live without a todo list and a calendar. of i do not write it down, it is gone. i can finally accept this and stop trying to get better at remembering things.
there are numerous other things too that i will likely think of / discover as time passes.
just a note, i’m not looking for feedback or criticism of these things im experiencing.
accepting i might have adhd helped me in a few ways:
1. i could stop being quite so hard on myself for fucking up (usually organisational stuff)
2. i’ve started separating the parts of my identity i took on as an explanation for my needs (e.g low frustration threshold means i need minimalism and convenience). which is useful because now im starting to see what i “need” to function well and what i actually value.
3. ive started to build my life in ways that enable me to overcome stuff. e.g i thought i was very introverted and need alone time (and it turns out i am and do) but i need things to help me engage with boring tasks and other people are so engaging. so now i try to book in time to pair on boring tasks.
5. i absolutely cannot live without a todo list and a calendar. of i do not write it down, it is gone. i can finally accept this and stop trying to get better at remembering things.
there are numerous other things too that i will likely think of / discover as time passes.
I didn't know I had ADHD until I was 31. But goddamn when I found out what made me the way I was and was able to get help, my world changed. No longer did I question why I couldn't remember anything or stay focused for longer than 10 minutes. Why I loved my job but seemed to struggle with it.
I took the help, and I feel better for it.
You should at least let them run the tests. What do you have to lose?
I took the help, and I feel better for it.
You should at least let them run the tests. What do you have to lose?
I was in a 6 figure job as the #2 in a sales office in my early/mid 20's when I got my diagnosis. It changed my life.
I don't take any medication for it. Never have. It felt a lot like when I started going to therapy. I was able to learn more about myself and point to some things that I do as ADHD related. It helped me understand why I am the way I am.
I don't take any medication for it. Never have. It felt a lot like when I started going to therapy. I was able to learn more about myself and point to some things that I do as ADHD related. It helped me understand why I am the way I am.
A family member told me it changed his life by enabling a consistent level of productivity that he struggled with before.
I've considered exploring this because my level of productivity varies pretty widely, and I've had experiences that partly match other people's descriptions (broken sense of confidence in prioritization, too many ideas/interests)... but I also wonder:
How do people who diagnose ADHD reject the diagnosis? Or do they? Software professionals tend to see software solutions to domain dynamics whether they're necessary or most productive; it seems to me it's possible that medical-psych professionals might tend to medicalize personal dynamics... in particular, how does one tell the difference between outlier levels of OCEAN/Big5 trait "openness" and ADHD?
Or is it simpler than this, and you find someone who treats ADHD, try the treatment, and if it changes your life, the label is the least important part of that?
I've considered exploring this because my level of productivity varies pretty widely, and I've had experiences that partly match other people's descriptions (broken sense of confidence in prioritization, too many ideas/interests)... but I also wonder:
How do people who diagnose ADHD reject the diagnosis? Or do they? Software professionals tend to see software solutions to domain dynamics whether they're necessary or most productive; it seems to me it's possible that medical-psych professionals might tend to medicalize personal dynamics... in particular, how does one tell the difference between outlier levels of OCEAN/Big5 trait "openness" and ADHD?
Or is it simpler than this, and you find someone who treats ADHD, try the treatment, and if it changes your life, the label is the least important part of that?
I will say that I was diagnosed after college with ADHD and was given a prescription for Adderall. I get the feeling it was from a "script farm," so I didn't get anything more than a "yes you have ADHD, here's some drugs."
I tried the Adderall and the focus I always lacked was there; it felt almost like a super power. I explain it like being Cyclops from X-Men. I had this laser beam of focus: whatever I looked at I could focus on for as long as I wanted. But it also felt a bit like a performance enhancing drug, and something that was changing who I was by changing my brain, so I stopped taking it.
Recently I've started seeing a therapist who explained that my ADHD is not a deficit of attention, but a different way of how my brain works. Since I'm always thinking about a ton of things all at once I'm able to tie things together better than a lot of people I've worked with (or been in school with). If there's a crisis situation things slow way down for me and I'm able to think really clearly in the moment, instead of panicking.
The best part was that it was explained to me that if I ever needed to focus the way other people do (on things that I struggle to focus on), I can always temporarily "switch" my thinking by taking an ADHD drug.
TLDR: Initially rejected diagnosis, but have accepted it thanks to a better explanation from a professional.
I tried the Adderall and the focus I always lacked was there; it felt almost like a super power. I explain it like being Cyclops from X-Men. I had this laser beam of focus: whatever I looked at I could focus on for as long as I wanted. But it also felt a bit like a performance enhancing drug, and something that was changing who I was by changing my brain, so I stopped taking it.
Recently I've started seeing a therapist who explained that my ADHD is not a deficit of attention, but a different way of how my brain works. Since I'm always thinking about a ton of things all at once I'm able to tie things together better than a lot of people I've worked with (or been in school with). If there's a crisis situation things slow way down for me and I'm able to think really clearly in the moment, instead of panicking.
The best part was that it was explained to me that if I ever needed to focus the way other people do (on things that I struggle to focus on), I can always temporarily "switch" my thinking by taking an ADHD drug.
TLDR: Initially rejected diagnosis, but have accepted it thanks to a better explanation from a professional.
As others have mentioned, exploring a diagnosis is about more than just medication. Getting diagnosed and understanding how ADHD impacts me helped me understand myself better and stop beating myself up for the things I couldn't control. It changed the way I think about myself. Even though I had all the hallmarks of a good life on paper (did well in school, got a good job, stable relationship, etc.), I also felt imposter syndrome and ashamed for how chaotic and unstable I felt on the inside. Learning about ADHD helped me understand my strengths and weaknesses and how to work with them.
My diagnosis also helped my family, after I got diagnosed my dad and younger brother were diagnosed too. It saved my parent's relationship because my mom finally understood that parts of my dad's personality and his behavior were caused by the ADHD, not because he didn't care enough or because he was a bad husband/father.
My diagnosis also helped my family, after I got diagnosed my dad and younger brother were diagnosed too. It saved my parent's relationship because my mom finally understood that parts of my dad's personality and his behavior were caused by the ADHD, not because he didn't care enough or because he was a bad husband/father.
Since i was diagnosed in 2019 (i am nearing my 30's today) it helped me a lot in identifying issues that ADHD was causing and how to work around them. Anger issues, object permanence, executive dysfunction, sensory issues, anxiety became easier to manage, once i became aware of the nature of these issues and how to remove some of the stress related to these issues.
I never got to medicating, because i lived in a country where, any kind of ADHD medication is either illegal (stimulants) or not yet licensed (non-stimulants). There was a third option, sort of a third-line, anti-depressant that had a ton of side-effects, which i decided to skip.
Now i moved to [Northern Europe] and started the process of getting diagnosed here from scratch, since i am unable to transfer my records. Time consuming and expensive? Very much. Not sure that the whole thing will result in anything useful for me, but i still feel that i have to try.
I never got to medicating, because i lived in a country where, any kind of ADHD medication is either illegal (stimulants) or not yet licensed (non-stimulants). There was a third option, sort of a third-line, anti-depressant that had a ton of side-effects, which i decided to skip.
Now i moved to [Northern Europe] and started the process of getting diagnosed here from scratch, since i am unable to transfer my records. Time consuming and expensive? Very much. Not sure that the whole thing will result in anything useful for me, but i still feel that i have to try.
It should be, and probably is 100% clear from your life story and problems that you have it. Regardless of how „successful”, „special” or „exceptional” you might feel you are. I have no clue what “neurological tests” mean because you’re the only one in your head capable of making this assessment. Also your loved ones, they’re the ones who have to put up with your ADHD and probably know it.
Try the meds. For me, it has been a complete life changer. Many many small things that I’ve always seen as part of me, or symptoms for which I’ve over-corrected for in my personality are suddenly changeable. I’ve never been more emotionally stable and effective in everything I do.
At the end of the day you’re the one that makes the assessment whether you have it. “Professionals” know only what they see for the 30-45 minutes that you come in.
Try the meds. For me, it has been a complete life changer. Many many small things that I’ve always seen as part of me, or symptoms for which I’ve over-corrected for in my personality are suddenly changeable. I’ve never been more emotionally stable and effective in everything I do.
At the end of the day you’re the one that makes the assessment whether you have it. “Professionals” know only what they see for the 30-45 minutes that you come in.
I got it, got the medication (and it helped a ton). Then the next doctor said the last doctor was completely wrong. Now I have something completely different (and very different medication, which also helps but not quite in the same way). If you do get one I would urge you to carefully consider whether or not you want further investigation after that, especially if you're outside the norm mentally. Every new doctor you get will question every doctor you've ever had and want to redo everything, which takes a ton of time. Expect every doctor to add 12 months delay to whatever treatment you might to get.
That said, getting help at all if you have no other choice (i.e. you are objectively incapable of functioning) is a good idea. The real challenge lies in knowing when to call it a day :)
That said, getting help at all if you have no other choice (i.e. you are objectively incapable of functioning) is a good idea. The real challenge lies in knowing when to call it a day :)
Diagnosed ADHD here. The only thing of worth was the stimulant medication because It significantly improved my ability to work longer and on more difficult projects. It has side effects, if you're satisfied with your work it's not worth it. There's nothing else from an ADHD diagnosis that benefits me. If anything I'm most likely on the spectrum but psychs's in the country have little to no knowledge about autism in adults, only children. The diagnosis criteria heavily focuses upon underdeveloped kids.
Caution to anyone else, the default dose they gave me was far too high. Had to change it down to the lowest long release they had. There's different kinds of stimulants, Adderall based doesn't work for me.
Caution to anyone else, the default dose they gave me was far too high. Had to change it down to the lowest long release they had. There's different kinds of stimulants, Adderall based doesn't work for me.
My 2c (not a Dr.):
* ADHD diagnosis could be useful for self-knowledge and for maybe acquiring medication;
* not sure what the neurological tests give you above and beyond a psychiatrist's expert judgement. Seems like they've got incentives to run expensive tests/use expensive machinery that don't necessarily align with the patient's.
I benefited from Concerta at a job but the self-knowledge gained from looking hard at my own abilities and disabilities was much more valuable. You might find the same.
Here's a resource on adderall you might find valuable: https://lorienpsych.com/2020/10/30/adderall/
* ADHD diagnosis could be useful for self-knowledge and for maybe acquiring medication;
* not sure what the neurological tests give you above and beyond a psychiatrist's expert judgement. Seems like they've got incentives to run expensive tests/use expensive machinery that don't necessarily align with the patient's.
I benefited from Concerta at a job but the self-knowledge gained from looking hard at my own abilities and disabilities was much more valuable. You might find the same.
Here's a resource on adderall you might find valuable: https://lorienpsych.com/2020/10/30/adderall/
I got a diagnosis when I was in college (inattentive type, definitely not hyperactive). It was a bit of a rollercoaster for me.
I also have anxiety and disthymeia, so meds were complicated. Stimulants send my anxiety out of control. Ultimately, I'm unmedicated for the ADHD, now.
It's been 20 years, and I'll admit, I fear any major med changes, because it can be ~1 year to get it all worked out.
I would say, make sure you are working with a psychiatrist who specializes in ADHD and a psychologist who will partner with them to aid your treatment. Their experience is key and can save you a lot of time struggling with meds, I wish I did that from day 1. I originally started with a PCP and then psychologist + PCP and really struggled from bad treatment advice.
I was "smart enough" for it to not seriously impact me until later in college. I would dive into 1 class and neglect the rest.
But my career is pretty tolerant of it. In some ways it is an asset. I have developed a ton of coping mechanisms to compensate, and have also learned to build in time to let myself go. It took me a while time to "forgive myself" for needing that, but a good therapist who also had ADHD helped me.
Taking sensory breaks is really important for me. Shifting to working from home meant I had to learn when I should take breaks from notification overload. I only allow my calendar to notify me then. I do benefit from working with people who really know me and help support.
I also cannot track time internally (I do not know if that is common or not). So making sure to schedule things like lunch has been important. It's easy for me to get lost.
My wife is also amazingly supportive. We complement each other very well and have for years. We are very communicative and that has helped a lot.
I'm sad that my one of my daughters is struggling is struggling with it early in school. School in general is just so incompatible. I can sympathize in many ways with the "inattentive" aspects, but she is also hyperactive which is foreign to me.
I also have anxiety and disthymeia, so meds were complicated. Stimulants send my anxiety out of control. Ultimately, I'm unmedicated for the ADHD, now.
It's been 20 years, and I'll admit, I fear any major med changes, because it can be ~1 year to get it all worked out.
I would say, make sure you are working with a psychiatrist who specializes in ADHD and a psychologist who will partner with them to aid your treatment. Their experience is key and can save you a lot of time struggling with meds, I wish I did that from day 1. I originally started with a PCP and then psychologist + PCP and really struggled from bad treatment advice.
I was "smart enough" for it to not seriously impact me until later in college. I would dive into 1 class and neglect the rest.
But my career is pretty tolerant of it. In some ways it is an asset. I have developed a ton of coping mechanisms to compensate, and have also learned to build in time to let myself go. It took me a while time to "forgive myself" for needing that, but a good therapist who also had ADHD helped me.
Taking sensory breaks is really important for me. Shifting to working from home meant I had to learn when I should take breaks from notification overload. I only allow my calendar to notify me then. I do benefit from working with people who really know me and help support.
I also cannot track time internally (I do not know if that is common or not). So making sure to schedule things like lunch has been important. It's easy for me to get lost.
My wife is also amazingly supportive. We complement each other very well and have for years. We are very communicative and that has helped a lot.
I'm sad that my one of my daughters is struggling is struggling with it early in school. School in general is just so incompatible. I can sympathize in many ways with the "inattentive" aspects, but she is also hyperactive which is foreign to me.
A diagnosis makes sense if you believe it will improve things. A key criteria is that the issue is negatively affecting your life. This can be in subtle, non-obvious ways.
There's no obligation to be on any sort of medication, but having the option never really hurts. Knowing is more than half the battle, if only to make coping skills much more effective (if you have it you are likely coping without realizing it). You are in control here.
Unless you desperately want to be a pilot, in which case getting a medical is now difficult. Though wanting to be a pilot with even a mild executive function impairment is IMO disqualifying for poor judgment anyway.
Personally, the stimulants helped quite a bit along with an improved ability to cope. YMMV.
There's no obligation to be on any sort of medication, but having the option never really hurts. Knowing is more than half the battle, if only to make coping skills much more effective (if you have it you are likely coping without realizing it). You are in control here.
Unless you desperately want to be a pilot, in which case getting a medical is now difficult. Though wanting to be a pilot with even a mild executive function impairment is IMO disqualifying for poor judgment anyway.
Personally, the stimulants helped quite a bit along with an improved ability to cope. YMMV.
I'm fascinated.
> I am in the later half of an adventurous and successful career. I continue to grow, have a long-term stable marriage, good savings, great life.
This passage could describe me as well, but as I look back on high school and college I've become convinced that if I'd been born 10-15 years later I would have been diagnosed with ADD or ADHD (I don't know if the 'hyperactivity' part is a distinction psychologists make anymore.) I struggled in school but in an unusual way: I got As in some classes and Cs (or worse!) in others.
In school balancing my attention between more than three different classes was an impossible and mystifying task, but generating very intent focus on a few very interesting things was easy (e.g. programming, playing guitar). In college, I found myself dropping down to the minimum full-time course load often, and I envied my friends at schools on the quarter system who took only three classes at a time over shorter terms.
When I started working as a programmer, I found things much easier, had fewer things to divide my focus between, and could arrange my work (mostly) as I pleased, and I had a lot of success. I also discovered coffee, and looking at my coffee consumption over the years, one might reasonably conclude I'm self-medicating with stimulants. Even now, this XKCD resonates with me: https://xkcd.com/1106/
I'm moderately curious about whether I would be diagnosed, in the spirit of self-knowledge, but I don't feel the need to engage professional help to figure it out.
> I am in the later half of an adventurous and successful career. I continue to grow, have a long-term stable marriage, good savings, great life.
This passage could describe me as well, but as I look back on high school and college I've become convinced that if I'd been born 10-15 years later I would have been diagnosed with ADD or ADHD (I don't know if the 'hyperactivity' part is a distinction psychologists make anymore.) I struggled in school but in an unusual way: I got As in some classes and Cs (or worse!) in others.
In school balancing my attention between more than three different classes was an impossible and mystifying task, but generating very intent focus on a few very interesting things was easy (e.g. programming, playing guitar). In college, I found myself dropping down to the minimum full-time course load often, and I envied my friends at schools on the quarter system who took only three classes at a time over shorter terms.
When I started working as a programmer, I found things much easier, had fewer things to divide my focus between, and could arrange my work (mostly) as I pleased, and I had a lot of success. I also discovered coffee, and looking at my coffee consumption over the years, one might reasonably conclude I'm self-medicating with stimulants. Even now, this XKCD resonates with me: https://xkcd.com/1106/
I'm moderately curious about whether I would be diagnosed, in the spirit of self-knowledge, but I don't feel the need to engage professional help to figure it out.
I was diagnosed once as a kid, and again as a teenager. I was prescribed medication just as fast as I was diagnosed. In either case it hasn't helped, as it concerns my focus. In fact I quite often felt worse when I relied on these later on. What it helped was to ascertain that I do not in fact have ADHD, and to learn that the diagnosis process is a complete joke.
My issue was primarily of chronic fatigue from inadequate sleep through my teen years, informed in part by high levels of anxiety and stress at home. Conversely as a kid, diagnosis came recommended by a teacher (!) because I was "daydreaming in class" - that's it. Details of my fatigue were made aware to the psychiatrist I was sent to at the time, but perhaps because I was scheduled for focus/attention issues, it was completely ignored.
I eventually regained my focus in adulthood, after pain and trepidation, with a multi-pronged approach that included reinvigorating sleep, reducing my anxiety levels, and diet / regular exercise.
Make no mistake: this is not to proselytize that "ADHD doesn't exist". But I would put it to you that since there is a perverse incentive to diagnose it, it's diagnosed as though everything is a nail in North America. There should be more credence given to the possibility that focus issues can be symptomatic of other problems.
I also find it dubious that children can so easily be diagnosed by virtue that a long day of boring lectures and sitting still is difficult to pay attention to. This is almost ubiquitous among children, though yes, it will exacerbate things more among kids who have more of a difficulty with focus. This brings to mind the story of Gillian Lynne, choreographer for Cats, who was brought to the doctor for her fidgeting - he suggested she go to dance school where she excelled. Why is it unthinkable that certain children be allowed to flourish in more appropriate environments? Because they're an inconvenience to adults - that's all. It's not less virtuous to be a person drawn to more physical engagement with the world.
Also see: A Disease Called Childhood: Why ADHD became an American Epidemic, by Marilyn Wedge, Ph.D.
My issue was primarily of chronic fatigue from inadequate sleep through my teen years, informed in part by high levels of anxiety and stress at home. Conversely as a kid, diagnosis came recommended by a teacher (!) because I was "daydreaming in class" - that's it. Details of my fatigue were made aware to the psychiatrist I was sent to at the time, but perhaps because I was scheduled for focus/attention issues, it was completely ignored.
I eventually regained my focus in adulthood, after pain and trepidation, with a multi-pronged approach that included reinvigorating sleep, reducing my anxiety levels, and diet / regular exercise.
Make no mistake: this is not to proselytize that "ADHD doesn't exist". But I would put it to you that since there is a perverse incentive to diagnose it, it's diagnosed as though everything is a nail in North America. There should be more credence given to the possibility that focus issues can be symptomatic of other problems.
I also find it dubious that children can so easily be diagnosed by virtue that a long day of boring lectures and sitting still is difficult to pay attention to. This is almost ubiquitous among children, though yes, it will exacerbate things more among kids who have more of a difficulty with focus. This brings to mind the story of Gillian Lynne, choreographer for Cats, who was brought to the doctor for her fidgeting - he suggested she go to dance school where she excelled. Why is it unthinkable that certain children be allowed to flourish in more appropriate environments? Because they're an inconvenience to adults - that's all. It's not less virtuous to be a person drawn to more physical engagement with the world.
Also see: A Disease Called Childhood: Why ADHD became an American Epidemic, by Marilyn Wedge, Ph.D.
I was diagnosed almost a year ago at age 30.
I think 'How would this help me?' is a great question to explore. I'm quite different to you as I struggle to maintain a full time job or a consistent relationship. Adults with ADHD have often developed coping methods and systems that work well for them.
Even if you are diagnosed you don't have to take any particular course of action. Medication is not mandatory.
After I was diagnosed I tried concerta. I didn't really feel it helped me a lot. I am currently in part time work but struggling to progress in my career. 8 years in and I'm still a junior and I think my condition is a big contributor.
I think 'How would this help me?' is a great question to explore. I'm quite different to you as I struggle to maintain a full time job or a consistent relationship. Adults with ADHD have often developed coping methods and systems that work well for them.
Even if you are diagnosed you don't have to take any particular course of action. Medication is not mandatory.
After I was diagnosed I tried concerta. I didn't really feel it helped me a lot. I am currently in part time work but struggling to progress in my career. 8 years in and I'm still a junior and I think my condition is a big contributor.
You could find benefits for your life without a formal diagnosis:
- you might learn that some traits are not your personal moral failures but just symptoms of underlying physical condition that you can workaround. There are other people like you
- you can learn tricks from other people who identify with similar symptoms(tricks such as alarms, schedules, tight feedback loops , running/lifting weights that may increase productivity)
Even I f you don’t have the diagnosis, most tricks may improve your life (the difference being: if you have the condition, you have to do many of them just to function at any level).
Even I f you don’t have the diagnosis, most tricks may improve your life (the difference being: if you have the condition, you have to do many of them just to function at any level).
I had a neuropsych evaluation (the neurological test) in my early 20's. It confirmed my diagnosis of ADHD and dyscalculia.
If you don't believe you're negatively impacted with ADHD type symptoms, it probably won't help you. It did help me manage the 'cycle of anxiety' brought on by ADHD-induced lack of focus and procrastination.
Stimulant medications do help, I'm on Concerta which is an extended release methylphenidate (Ritalin). It is not magic. I see a therapist to help with accountability and manage the chronic anxiety as well as develop systems to help me block my time and limit distractions.
If you don't believe you're negatively impacted with ADHD type symptoms, it probably won't help you. It did help me manage the 'cycle of anxiety' brought on by ADHD-induced lack of focus and procrastination.
Stimulant medications do help, I'm on Concerta which is an extended release methylphenidate (Ritalin). It is not magic. I see a therapist to help with accountability and manage the chronic anxiety as well as develop systems to help me block my time and limit distractions.
My Psychiatrist that I"ve known for around 10 years told me at my last meeting with him that I am his most successful case when it comes to coping with ADHD and trying to brute force my way through it. Even with the recognition from him who has consistently seen hundreds of patients over the years, I have to put an immense effort to move forward in the direction I want to go.
I wouldn't say not to explore it, but it has been debilitating in my case. If it isn't in yours (or hasn't been), I personally think you might not get much of a perceived benefit.
I wouldn't say not to explore it, but it has been debilitating in my case. If it isn't in yours (or hasn't been), I personally think you might not get much of a perceived benefit.
Mostly, it's helped me understand where some of my own idiosyncracies come from.
I don't take any medication for ADHD, mainly because I also have general anxiety and my understanding that is anxiety and ADHD medications tend to interfere with one another. I need the medication for my anxiety more; I've gone 30+ years coping with my ADHD symptoms and working around them, so I don't really need medication for them. But an official diagnosis is remarkably freeing, because at least I can finally say "THIS is why I'm like this".
I don't take any medication for ADHD, mainly because I also have general anxiety and my understanding that is anxiety and ADHD medications tend to interfere with one another. I need the medication for my anxiety more; I've gone 30+ years coping with my ADHD symptoms and working around them, so I don't really need medication for them. But an official diagnosis is remarkably freeing, because at least I can finally say "THIS is why I'm like this".
Stimulants tend to make anxiety worse. But treating ADHD tends to make anxiety better. So it depends. And there are other ADHD medications too.
Frankly if you don't have problems in your life that seem to stem from ADHD then I wouldn't bother with it?
I got diagnosed with ADHD as an adult after struggling with my jobs for the first 10 years of my career, and getting fired from my previous one.
It so far feels like being medicated helps me switch contexts easier. It has not helped my focus really. Just that when I get distracted from what I was doing I can get myself back into it again more easily, instead of browsing my phone for 30 minutes before I get back to it.
I got diagnosed with ADHD as an adult after struggling with my jobs for the first 10 years of my career, and getting fired from my previous one.
It so far feels like being medicated helps me switch contexts easier. It has not helped my focus really. Just that when I get distracted from what I was doing I can get myself back into it again more easily, instead of browsing my phone for 30 minutes before I get back to it.
The ADHD diagnosis allowed me to get Adderall. Adderall allowed me to listen to people and not just talk about whatever comes to mind all the time. After a while of using the drug, I was able to listen to people off the drug. Now I cut my dose down, and just know to recognize my behavior and nip it.
This has improved my personal relationships so much. You wouldn’t believe it.
Previously, everyone loved me because I was the life of the party etc etc but now I can also form deeper connections because I can listen.
This has improved my personal relationships so much. You wouldn’t believe it.
Previously, everyone loved me because I was the life of the party etc etc but now I can also form deeper connections because I can listen.
> I am in the later half of an adventurous and successful career. I continue to grow, have a long-term stable marriage, good savings, great life.
If you're happy with your life, why change anything?
Assuming you're considering medication, be careful. Remember that ADHD medication often very similar to methamphetamine, (or is methamphetamine.)
Those drugs are addictive, and when prescribed incorrectly, it's often hard to be objective about if the drugs really benefit you, or if you just enjoy the drugs.
If you're happy with your life, why change anything?
Assuming you're considering medication, be careful. Remember that ADHD medication often very similar to methamphetamine, (or is methamphetamine.)
Those drugs are addictive, and when prescribed incorrectly, it's often hard to be objective about if the drugs really benefit you, or if you just enjoy the drugs.
What are the symptoms of adult ADHD?
Mostly the same as childhood ADHD: attention deficit, emotional dysregulation, rejection sensitivity, hyperactivity, etc.
There are many good articles around the symptoms and impacts, such as this one:
https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/10-symptoms-adult-adhd
There are many good articles around the symptoms and impacts, such as this one:
https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/10-symptoms-adult-adhd
The same as in a child, except you can identify them yourself because you've gained the experience of life.
No real help in many countries because Adderal and Desoxyn are completely illegal in the most. In fact the only thing that really helped me were small amounts of meth which is legally available (in the USA only) as Desoxyn. 1/4 Xanax + 1200mg piracetam combo also did nice job but every time I tried it Xanax felt having notably less effect. So, for some time, I settled with nicotine-heavy vape which made me at least slightly productive.
I'm also 2e or "twice exceptional" and for me it was the opposite.
I could never manage to save anything longterm and when I started wanting more responsibility in my career I hit a wall without treatment.
Once I started treatment at 35 I was finally able to start making progress and being seen as reliable by management not just good jumping from project to project or great in an emergency, but being able to follow through with projects long term.
I could never manage to save anything longterm and when I started wanting more responsibility in my career I hit a wall without treatment.
Once I started treatment at 35 I was finally able to start making progress and being seen as reliable by management not just good jumping from project to project or great in an emergency, but being able to follow through with projects long term.
I’d like to see more studies done with the effects of psychedelics on ADHD. I’ve personally had greater focus control and mental clarity through them (specifically LSD and moreso mushrooms, although DMT did give me a pretty large six month break from my symptoms). However there is virtually no information regarding this out there. Good luck going into most ADHD communities and bringing them up
Related: FDA Approves Video Game Based on UCSF Brain Research as ADHD Therapy ... > https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417841/fda-approves-video-...
If you do not have some sort of big problem in relation to suspected ADHD, then it might only help you to know yourself better. ADHD is only a handicap in certain situations. In others, it might help a lot (ie Wayne Gretsky). Also a small fraction of ADHDers are 'over-compensated'. (Google it.) You might be one of us. :)
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My life kind of started anew.
Not in a "wow this is fantastic", rather the opposite. Old sorrows surfaces, forgotten experiences had to be dealt with, but I was finally able to start moving forward and deal with the reality outside myself.
It's hard to explain, but now I am growing older, not only my body as it used to be.
Not in a "wow this is fantastic", rather the opposite. Old sorrows surfaces, forgotten experiences had to be dealt with, but I was finally able to start moving forward and deal with the reality outside myself.
It's hard to explain, but now I am growing older, not only my body as it used to be.
Be wary of the possible dry mouth side-effect. As far as my experiences go the feeling of dry mouth is due to reduced saliva production, and just drinking water will not solve the issue. Too little saliva lowers your oral health and as a result can accelerate tooth decay (among other things).
> They want to run neurological tests, said I'm 'twice exceptional'
It's a red flag to me. Who's they here ? What kind of setting, health insurance, country's social net are we talking about ?
Who's paying for the privilege of investigating a case that is twice exceptional ?
It's a red flag to me. Who's they here ? What kind of setting, health insurance, country's social net are we talking about ?
Who's paying for the privilege of investigating a case that is twice exceptional ?
When I asked if blind people can suffer from ADHD and the doc didn't know and was like hmmm.. makes me feel its a disease brought on because of the use of screens. 30 frames constantly has to do something to our brains and attention
A physician published a description of what sounds like ADHD in 1798.[1]
[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3000907/
[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3000907/
For me, it was mostly validation and better understanding of my behaviours for both myself and my spouse.
I take an SSRI which is supposed to help me be more focused, but I'm 5 months in an having trouble telling the difference, tbh.
I take an SSRI which is supposed to help me be more focused, but I'm 5 months in an having trouble telling the difference, tbh.
Beyond needing to visit the pharmacy monthly because vyvanse can’t be delivered, my life didn’t change much. I still have just as much trouble focusing as usual. Maybe I should increase the dosage..
My ability to focus since getting medication is night and day. This is true even when I’m off medication because I’ve been able to do the work to gain mental clarity I’d not been able to do before.
It wouldn't help you at all if you are already in a good place. Whether you are might depend on what "a lingering family issue" is.
Can you all recommend any science-based books/videos/etc that one could use to improve their ADHD?
There are a ton of resources, but unfortunately you'll have to sort of figure out which ones work for you as they all seem to have slightly different approaches and opinions.
Two good places to start (in my opinion), if they don't work for you, just move on:
How to ADHD youtube (aims younger but very positive): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-nPM1_kSZf91ZGkcgy_95Q
ADDitude Magazine: https://www.additudemag.com/ (they also have a YouTube channel)
Two good places to start (in my opinion), if they don't work for you, just move on:
How to ADHD youtube (aims younger but very positive): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-nPM1_kSZf91ZGkcgy_95Q
ADDitude Magazine: https://www.additudemag.com/ (they also have a YouTube channel)
To understand more about it, I really liked reading this book: https://drgabormate.com/book/scattered-minds/
From memory: regular exercise, and emotional regulation tools such as CBT or meditation. Oh, and adequate sleep
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31921425/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31921425/
Massively.
Like getting the first of many tremendous insights into how I interact with this reality.
Thank you all for sharing so many valuable insights and resources. I truly appreciate your input.
Be aware that ADHD medications can make you hypertensive and even lead to heart arrhythmias.
I asked my doctor if blind people who never had sight suffered from adhd and she replied she didn't know and was unaware of any studies .. I feel adhd is brought on by the screens 30 frames a sec flashing the eyes has to do something to our attention span. J/S
Restored my sense of agency, which has changed my life for the better
it helped me more quickly assess tools, skills, readings, and even relationships based on more readily-categorized material.
otherwise, i was just guessing but unsure.
otherwise, i was just guessing but unsure.
I have immense trouble obtaining my medicine due to the arcane scheduling system in my country. Pharmacists frequently lie to me about inventory and tell me that they can't fill my medicine.
What kind of doctor to you go to to get a diagnosis?
Don’t listen to the therapist. Find a new one.
I’ve been diagnosed a couple of months ago and here my main takeaways:
1) My self confidence improved: I know I don’t “mess up” because I’m lazy, stupid or don’t care - it’s just how my brain works
2) I can drastically reduce the amount of “messing up” by taking medication
3) Now I can get things done with half the mental strain and drastically less “mess-ups”
TL:DR - Therapy is also essential, especially if you have built an adult life & persona to counteract the ADHD symptoms. What is “you” and what has been a coping mechanism? It’s fascinating indeed.
TL:DR - Therapy is also essential, especially if you have built an adult life & persona to counteract the ADHD symptoms. What is “you” and what has been a coping mechanism? It’s fascinating indeed.
First of all, I personally really like exploring anything a therapist recommends to me. If they (or people in my life) are noticing something, then it's something worth consideration.
I got a formal ADHD diagnosis around 8 years ago. They did prescribe medication, but I honestly do not like taking it. Sure it gives me focus and "superpowers" but it also shifts the way I think about things and I don't feel like myself on it. I personally use it as a "backup" when I have a lot of tasks I have to bash through, but for others they find daily is useful. To each their own. I find a lot of people with diagnosis and medication from a young age lean on that heavily, with less technique based change.
The benefit however has been that now I have the name of something to explore and work on. I didn't really know I was ADHD prior to my diagnosis, and it was a partner that pointed me in the direction of exploring it.
I've realized that my father's behavior was similar to mine, and it's an interesting lens to see his life through.
I've been able to lean into organizational techniques more. For me, putting in hard work on techniques is better on average than medication. I'm also not someone who responds to average organizational techniques and I often have to find "tricks" that work for my own personal motivations to keep me organized.
For example, I've never been able to keep a calendar, todo list, or schedule. I was awful in college about missing classes, running late, etc. So much of it was because I'm overly optimistic about time (so run late), and also about my ability to keep things in my head (which I'm actually terrible at, but in the moment think I'm clever).
My solution to this has been weird - it's Google Calendar. But I share it with a dozen friends. It's no longer about my schedule tracking, but it being a social communication tool. My motivation to keep it accurate isn't just about my schedule, but about letting people know when I'm free/busy and where I am. For my brain, that is a highly motivating thing and so now I keep it accurate. Same with things like grocery lists and Google Keep and my live in partner. It's not just about my list, but now it's a socially motivated list, so I'll keep it accurate. This isn't a motivational technique for everyone, but it's mine and works well to keep me organized.
Eventually you may find parts of yourself described in various literature and experience that aren't just about organization or distraction, but things about how you take feedback, etc... some of which are highly linked as ADHD traits.
There's also at least 3 different distinct types of ADHD, and it's useful to think about those and how they fit you. Your therapist should be able to help you identify these formally.
I got a formal ADHD diagnosis around 8 years ago. They did prescribe medication, but I honestly do not like taking it. Sure it gives me focus and "superpowers" but it also shifts the way I think about things and I don't feel like myself on it. I personally use it as a "backup" when I have a lot of tasks I have to bash through, but for others they find daily is useful. To each their own. I find a lot of people with diagnosis and medication from a young age lean on that heavily, with less technique based change.
The benefit however has been that now I have the name of something to explore and work on. I didn't really know I was ADHD prior to my diagnosis, and it was a partner that pointed me in the direction of exploring it.
I've realized that my father's behavior was similar to mine, and it's an interesting lens to see his life through.
I've been able to lean into organizational techniques more. For me, putting in hard work on techniques is better on average than medication. I'm also not someone who responds to average organizational techniques and I often have to find "tricks" that work for my own personal motivations to keep me organized.
For example, I've never been able to keep a calendar, todo list, or schedule. I was awful in college about missing classes, running late, etc. So much of it was because I'm overly optimistic about time (so run late), and also about my ability to keep things in my head (which I'm actually terrible at, but in the moment think I'm clever).
My solution to this has been weird - it's Google Calendar. But I share it with a dozen friends. It's no longer about my schedule tracking, but it being a social communication tool. My motivation to keep it accurate isn't just about my schedule, but about letting people know when I'm free/busy and where I am. For my brain, that is a highly motivating thing and so now I keep it accurate. Same with things like grocery lists and Google Keep and my live in partner. It's not just about my list, but now it's a socially motivated list, so I'll keep it accurate. This isn't a motivational technique for everyone, but it's mine and works well to keep me organized.
Eventually you may find parts of yourself described in various literature and experience that aren't just about organization or distraction, but things about how you take feedback, etc... some of which are highly linked as ADHD traits.
There's also at least 3 different distinct types of ADHD, and it's useful to think about those and how they fit you. Your therapist should be able to help you identify these formally.
I’ve been taking vyvanse for the last few years. I was skeptical whether medication would “work” or even about what “work” would mean. I’ve seen other commenters relate adhd meds to glasses. I think that’s reasonable. I wear glasses and they really smooth things out. Going through life without glasses would be so much more annoying. I think I’ll get lasik or something in the near future because, you know, good eyesight is pretty cool.
Without glasses I’d have to position myself in odd ways to get a good enough perspective of reality to interact with it in ways I want. Could I do it without glasses? Sure. Do I wish I didn’t need them? Yeah.
Vyvanse is tool. My life has been different since I started using this tool. However, I was trying to change—to be more consistent, less impulsive, and to reduce my anxiety. I can consistently practice other techniques and develop better habits long enough that they stick. Three years passed between my initial diagnosis and when I agreed to try out medication.
Since I’ve been on medication, I’ve gained a lot of the consistency I sought. I take a capsule in the morning around 6am and I go to bed at 10pm (almost every night, whereas I wasn’t on a schedule before). I have a little morning routine of reading or working on things before work (long term goals stuff). I start winding down with the fam at around 6-7pm. The daily consistent effort has helped my anxiety a lot (prior, I’d procrastinate a lot more). I can actually relax when it’s time to relax. I also need to exercise 1-3 times a week (medication isn’t a silver bullet). I don’t “take breaks.” I take it daily, as prescribed. I take the lowest dose that “works.” A 10mg higher dose delays my bed time and shortens my sleep window (fwiw I don’t use an alarm). I keep a little daily journal and I still have “off days,” I just have far fewer. There’s still things that I can’t stand doing, but I can at least articulate that to someone else (or keep it to myself) and make a procrastination plan.
I’ve been “successful” with and without medication, but my life is a little healthier now which was unexpected given my initial thoughts on amphetamines. Prior, I would pack my days so tightly I didn’t have the option of deviating. When things would slow down, it was apparent I needed to explore better alternatives. Over the past four years I’ve periodically thought “hey, I’m doing pretty good, I probably don’t need this stuff. However, one side effect of stimulants is that they can increase your confidence (just something to be mindful of).
It can take time to find a dosage that works for you. I started low and ramped up. For me, it took about 3 months of consistent use to determine if a dose was better or worse (except for a dosage that was too high). I think some people like to “feel it working,” but I would advise against using an immediate metric like that.
Unfortunately there’s not a common language that we can all speak in about these things. I think everyone struggles with some amount of the common symptoms for adhd, but it can be hard to quantify personal experiences (asking 20/20 vision people the right questions might lead down a path of “yeah, sometimes I do have some trouble seeing certain things”). There’s some things you’ve got to experience for yourself.
If things are going really well right now and this is a one-off lingering family issue, it may not be worth your time to run all the tests. I’m actually pretty impressed that your providers want to run tests (maybe that’s something you should listen to). However, it’s possible that taking medication can make things worse before it can make them better.
To actually answer your question, an adult adhd diagnosis helped group together some observed effects under one name. After this thing had a name I went about making improvements that helped my situation (both with and without medication). To be honest, I have to read between the lines of your description which is “my life is going great, but I have a lingering family issue and my doc thinks I have adhd because of it.” I can imagine a scenario where this adds up, but I’d keep working with your doc and I’d get a second opinion before subjecting yourself to (possibly invasive) time-consuming testing.
Without glasses I’d have to position myself in odd ways to get a good enough perspective of reality to interact with it in ways I want. Could I do it without glasses? Sure. Do I wish I didn’t need them? Yeah.
Vyvanse is tool. My life has been different since I started using this tool. However, I was trying to change—to be more consistent, less impulsive, and to reduce my anxiety. I can consistently practice other techniques and develop better habits long enough that they stick. Three years passed between my initial diagnosis and when I agreed to try out medication.
Since I’ve been on medication, I’ve gained a lot of the consistency I sought. I take a capsule in the morning around 6am and I go to bed at 10pm (almost every night, whereas I wasn’t on a schedule before). I have a little morning routine of reading or working on things before work (long term goals stuff). I start winding down with the fam at around 6-7pm. The daily consistent effort has helped my anxiety a lot (prior, I’d procrastinate a lot more). I can actually relax when it’s time to relax. I also need to exercise 1-3 times a week (medication isn’t a silver bullet). I don’t “take breaks.” I take it daily, as prescribed. I take the lowest dose that “works.” A 10mg higher dose delays my bed time and shortens my sleep window (fwiw I don’t use an alarm). I keep a little daily journal and I still have “off days,” I just have far fewer. There’s still things that I can’t stand doing, but I can at least articulate that to someone else (or keep it to myself) and make a procrastination plan.
I’ve been “successful” with and without medication, but my life is a little healthier now which was unexpected given my initial thoughts on amphetamines. Prior, I would pack my days so tightly I didn’t have the option of deviating. When things would slow down, it was apparent I needed to explore better alternatives. Over the past four years I’ve periodically thought “hey, I’m doing pretty good, I probably don’t need this stuff. However, one side effect of stimulants is that they can increase your confidence (just something to be mindful of).
It can take time to find a dosage that works for you. I started low and ramped up. For me, it took about 3 months of consistent use to determine if a dose was better or worse (except for a dosage that was too high). I think some people like to “feel it working,” but I would advise against using an immediate metric like that.
Unfortunately there’s not a common language that we can all speak in about these things. I think everyone struggles with some amount of the common symptoms for adhd, but it can be hard to quantify personal experiences (asking 20/20 vision people the right questions might lead down a path of “yeah, sometimes I do have some trouble seeing certain things”). There’s some things you’ve got to experience for yourself.
If things are going really well right now and this is a one-off lingering family issue, it may not be worth your time to run all the tests. I’m actually pretty impressed that your providers want to run tests (maybe that’s something you should listen to). However, it’s possible that taking medication can make things worse before it can make them better.
To actually answer your question, an adult adhd diagnosis helped group together some observed effects under one name. After this thing had a name I went about making improvements that helped my situation (both with and without medication). To be honest, I have to read between the lines of your description which is “my life is going great, but I have a lingering family issue and my doc thinks I have adhd because of it.” I can imagine a scenario where this adds up, but I’d keep working with your doc and I’d get a second opinion before subjecting yourself to (possibly invasive) time-consuming testing.
The medication removed the issues I had with focus in 6-hour intervals, but it didn't suddenly make me a better person.
I still feel like a person whose character is underdeveloped. My life in the present is a blank slate. Not many ideas come to my mind, and I feel as if I've closed myself off to everything.
The fact is, when you read things like books on developing self-esteem, the issues make no mention of ADHD specifically in the context of the larger issue. ADHD can be a single detrimental component in a life that is, on the whole, dead and unfulfilling. It might have been part of the reason for that unfulfillment, but you still have to put in effort to go outside and meet people, or choose which books to read, or decide what's interesting to you. The medication at most gives me the opportunity to make that choice, a choice which I can then deliberately refuse.
It's damn near impossible for me to stay positive or see the value in accomplishing things. For example, I can't seem to decide if the fact that I lose interest in video games after a day, on medication or off, is because of a lack of executive function or the fact that I've spent my whole life beating myself up over losing, and still remember even the smallest losses years later in excruciating detail. Or maybe it's something else entirely. The loss of interest could be explained by multiple factors, and maybe all I've done at this point is break through the first barrier. It's my responsibility to decide what narrative makes the most sense, and act accordingly.
I think the diagnosis has given me a license to stop taking responsibility for a lot of things. I can deliberately stop taking the medication and point to me stopping as the reason I didn't do X today. Why didn't I do X? "Because I'm not the kind of person that is able to just do X." That's the default mindset I carry, one that has persisted for well over a decade before I was diagnosed with anything. And now that I have a diagnosis I supposedly have concrete evidence that I can point to so I can claim that mindset has been justified the whole time. And it's easier for me to keep confirming that attitude by sabotaging myself than changing it.
My problems extend far beyond the limitations imposed on me by something like ADHD. The diagnosis did not flip a switch that let me proceed on to a productive, fulfilling life. It gave me crucial knowledge about some of my behaviors that has materially benefited me, and it also gave me ammunition which I can use to absolve myself of responsibility in unproductive ways and delay my self-improvement further and further.
Honestly, I'm most inclined to believing the people that respond to my grief with things like, "well, in the end, living life as an adult is hard. Take responsibility." Those people include my current therapist, and I don't think she's incorrect in saying that. I can't count how many times I've wished someone would essentially come along and help me, by drawing over my blank slate with new ideas that I can pursue and new modes of thinking to believe in. No such person is supposed to appear. I still don't have someone I can always feel at ease communicating with, as equals.
I still feel like a person whose character is underdeveloped. My life in the present is a blank slate. Not many ideas come to my mind, and I feel as if I've closed myself off to everything.
The fact is, when you read things like books on developing self-esteem, the issues make no mention of ADHD specifically in the context of the larger issue. ADHD can be a single detrimental component in a life that is, on the whole, dead and unfulfilling. It might have been part of the reason for that unfulfillment, but you still have to put in effort to go outside and meet people, or choose which books to read, or decide what's interesting to you. The medication at most gives me the opportunity to make that choice, a choice which I can then deliberately refuse.
It's damn near impossible for me to stay positive or see the value in accomplishing things. For example, I can't seem to decide if the fact that I lose interest in video games after a day, on medication or off, is because of a lack of executive function or the fact that I've spent my whole life beating myself up over losing, and still remember even the smallest losses years later in excruciating detail. Or maybe it's something else entirely. The loss of interest could be explained by multiple factors, and maybe all I've done at this point is break through the first barrier. It's my responsibility to decide what narrative makes the most sense, and act accordingly.
I think the diagnosis has given me a license to stop taking responsibility for a lot of things. I can deliberately stop taking the medication and point to me stopping as the reason I didn't do X today. Why didn't I do X? "Because I'm not the kind of person that is able to just do X." That's the default mindset I carry, one that has persisted for well over a decade before I was diagnosed with anything. And now that I have a diagnosis I supposedly have concrete evidence that I can point to so I can claim that mindset has been justified the whole time. And it's easier for me to keep confirming that attitude by sabotaging myself than changing it.
My problems extend far beyond the limitations imposed on me by something like ADHD. The diagnosis did not flip a switch that let me proceed on to a productive, fulfilling life. It gave me crucial knowledge about some of my behaviors that has materially benefited me, and it also gave me ammunition which I can use to absolve myself of responsibility in unproductive ways and delay my self-improvement further and further.
Honestly, I'm most inclined to believing the people that respond to my grief with things like, "well, in the end, living life as an adult is hard. Take responsibility." Those people include my current therapist, and I don't think she's incorrect in saying that. I can't count how many times I've wished someone would essentially come along and help me, by drawing over my blank slate with new ideas that I can pursue and new modes of thinking to believe in. No such person is supposed to appear. I still don't have someone I can always feel at ease communicating with, as equals.
I imagine most of the stories you'll hear here are going to talk about how transformative a diagnosis was and the immense positive change most people have felt after starting medication. I do think this is probably the most common experience but my personal experience is a lot more mixed, and my relationship with my ADHD diagnosis and medication is complicated.
To start with, it wasn't a surprise when I was diagnosed as an adult. Teachers suggested I get tested for ADHD throughout my entire childhood but my parents held off since I wasn't a disruptive student, did well academically, and had often voiced an interest in joining the military and a childhood diagnosis of ADHD could potentially be disqualifying.
Ultimately though my goals changed and ended up going to graduate school with an aim to study cognitive science. That's when I decided to get tested, and not surprisingly, I was diagnosed with ADHD predominately inattentive subtype and prescribed Vyvanse. The change was profound. Before medication I would start books and never complete them, but suddenly I was finishing several books a month. I found keeping tack of things and cleaning and organizing my environment became second nature where I had struggled deeply with those things before. It also lead me to a career in tech. Prior to starting medication I had always had an appreciation for formal systems and logic, but Vyvanse super-charged that. I was suddenly able to deeply engage with math and formal logic in a way I hadn't been able to before because of my lack of focus. I became interested in software development. Taking Vyvanse and writing code became probably my favorite activity, and it's because of medication and my ADHD diagnosis that I ultimately became a software developer. I excelled at coding because I loved doing it. I would pop a Vyvanse and code for hours. Ultimately however, it became the only thing I really enjoyed. I would take an extra pill to stay up late and finish tasks, or get work done on a side-project. I ended up taking more than prescribed and I would run out before my refill was available leading me to have huge surges of productivity at the beginning of the month and huge periods of inactivity at the end when I was out of pills and suffered rebound effects like a complete inability to focus and extreme fatigue from not sleeping or eating correctly while on meds. In the end I realized it was also starting to take a toll on my personal relationships since I was living in my head all of the time not giving my live-in girlfriend nearly enough attention and instead just working and coding. So I decided to quit. After quitting my productivity took a hit, but ultimately I was able to reach a decent level of performance, though no where near what I had been doing previously. But I realized I was no longer deeply engaged with my work and I ended up transitioning careers from software development to becoming a sales engineer/solution architect.
Now, several years after quitting, I'm much happier. My live-in girlfriend is now my wife and I have a much better work-life balance. I'm still a bit of a workaholic, but I can disengage and maintain a better balance. Working as a sales engineer is also a really nice spot for my ADHD mind as constantly jumping between tasks and moving between technical and non-technical activities keeps me stimulated. I could never have done this job while on Vyvanse, as the focus I got from the meds would actually make it difficult for me to effectively move between so many different events in a day. Of course, I also can't code like a used to, but I do still enjoy engaging deeply with technical topics of interest. The odd reality for me though is that without that diagnosis and the medication I never would have been able to find a role like the one that I have now, which is such a good match for my unmedicated brain. I was able to derive a foundational knowledge about tech and computer science that I use today because of medication, and I don't know exactly where I would be if I hadn't gone down that road initially.
Looking back it's not too surprising I ended up abusing a prescription. Substance abuse disorder is a common comorbidity for people with ADHD and while that's often attributed to self-medication, I don't think that was the case for me. I just like altered states. I experimented with a range of drugs in college but it's easy to put up boundaries around things like that when you know it's recreational. When you're using a prescribed medicine it's much easier to justify the behavior. I think most people who are prescribed stimulants will take them correctly and will likely see a benefit from doing so. I don't think that's an option for me though and I've found more success building a life compatible with my condition rather than trying to fight it. There was a now deleted site called Quitting Adderall[1] that shared other people's similar experiences and it really resonated with me when I was considering the change.
That said there's no obligation to take stimulant medication if you do pursue a diagnosis, and I wouldn't tell you not to try stimulants if you think there could be benefit. I would just advise you to monitor yourself if you do take them, especially if you have a personal or family history of substance abuse.
1. https://web.archive.org/web/20210125224905/http://quittingad...
To start with, it wasn't a surprise when I was diagnosed as an adult. Teachers suggested I get tested for ADHD throughout my entire childhood but my parents held off since I wasn't a disruptive student, did well academically, and had often voiced an interest in joining the military and a childhood diagnosis of ADHD could potentially be disqualifying.
Ultimately though my goals changed and ended up going to graduate school with an aim to study cognitive science. That's when I decided to get tested, and not surprisingly, I was diagnosed with ADHD predominately inattentive subtype and prescribed Vyvanse. The change was profound. Before medication I would start books and never complete them, but suddenly I was finishing several books a month. I found keeping tack of things and cleaning and organizing my environment became second nature where I had struggled deeply with those things before. It also lead me to a career in tech. Prior to starting medication I had always had an appreciation for formal systems and logic, but Vyvanse super-charged that. I was suddenly able to deeply engage with math and formal logic in a way I hadn't been able to before because of my lack of focus. I became interested in software development. Taking Vyvanse and writing code became probably my favorite activity, and it's because of medication and my ADHD diagnosis that I ultimately became a software developer. I excelled at coding because I loved doing it. I would pop a Vyvanse and code for hours. Ultimately however, it became the only thing I really enjoyed. I would take an extra pill to stay up late and finish tasks, or get work done on a side-project. I ended up taking more than prescribed and I would run out before my refill was available leading me to have huge surges of productivity at the beginning of the month and huge periods of inactivity at the end when I was out of pills and suffered rebound effects like a complete inability to focus and extreme fatigue from not sleeping or eating correctly while on meds. In the end I realized it was also starting to take a toll on my personal relationships since I was living in my head all of the time not giving my live-in girlfriend nearly enough attention and instead just working and coding. So I decided to quit. After quitting my productivity took a hit, but ultimately I was able to reach a decent level of performance, though no where near what I had been doing previously. But I realized I was no longer deeply engaged with my work and I ended up transitioning careers from software development to becoming a sales engineer/solution architect.
Now, several years after quitting, I'm much happier. My live-in girlfriend is now my wife and I have a much better work-life balance. I'm still a bit of a workaholic, but I can disengage and maintain a better balance. Working as a sales engineer is also a really nice spot for my ADHD mind as constantly jumping between tasks and moving between technical and non-technical activities keeps me stimulated. I could never have done this job while on Vyvanse, as the focus I got from the meds would actually make it difficult for me to effectively move between so many different events in a day. Of course, I also can't code like a used to, but I do still enjoy engaging deeply with technical topics of interest. The odd reality for me though is that without that diagnosis and the medication I never would have been able to find a role like the one that I have now, which is such a good match for my unmedicated brain. I was able to derive a foundational knowledge about tech and computer science that I use today because of medication, and I don't know exactly where I would be if I hadn't gone down that road initially.
Looking back it's not too surprising I ended up abusing a prescription. Substance abuse disorder is a common comorbidity for people with ADHD and while that's often attributed to self-medication, I don't think that was the case for me. I just like altered states. I experimented with a range of drugs in college but it's easy to put up boundaries around things like that when you know it's recreational. When you're using a prescribed medicine it's much easier to justify the behavior. I think most people who are prescribed stimulants will take them correctly and will likely see a benefit from doing so. I don't think that's an option for me though and I've found more success building a life compatible with my condition rather than trying to fight it. There was a now deleted site called Quitting Adderall[1] that shared other people's similar experiences and it really resonated with me when I was considering the change.
That said there's no obligation to take stimulant medication if you do pursue a diagnosis, and I wouldn't tell you not to try stimulants if you think there could be benefit. I would just advise you to monitor yourself if you do take them, especially if you have a personal or family history of substance abuse.
1. https://web.archive.org/web/20210125224905/http://quittingad...
My thoughts upon reading this are:
1. If your ADHD hasn't made your life (at least at moments) a living hell, it's probably not something that needs to be addressed very urgently.
2. If you don't think your ADHD is a problem but a therapist thinks it might be, well... That's an ADHD thing, and it might help to entertain the idea and openly explore it with therapy and loved ones.
ADHD, whatever it really is, has made my life very difficult at times. I won't describe why because I don't think our situations and symptoms would align well enough for it to be relevant. I will say though that I managed to make it to 30 as a reasonably introspective, thoughtful, and open person without really cluing in to the fact that I had some severe problems stemming from ADHD. I know that seems contradictory, but the trouble with ADHD is that it's something of a self defeating condition. Some of your internal senses are finely tuned while others are extremely dull, and they often work against each other to suppress and hide each other. It's dangerously compounding. The people around you may never notice this, too - this only works to exacerbate your blind spots in terms of self awareness. It's often true that only the people closest to us, like a spouse or other immediate family, will ever become attuned to our issues. I can say confidently even now that my closest friends had no idea I had ADHD, and some even insisted my diagnosis was an error. I had a good job, I was disciplined, I was a good parent. I used to believe those things too, haha.
All that is to say that if you do have ADHD and think it's fine, well... It might actually be awful for those around you, and that's worth inspecting. However, if it is benign, just let it be.
Others quickly jumped to saying meds changed their life. They changed my perspective of what my life could be, which was useful. I didn't find them useful beyond that. I disliked the side effects, and I found the soft, fleeting rewiring to feel like a mental flip-flopping that made it difficult to pin down which thoughts and actions where "real" or "generated" by drugs. Just as taking LSD in the pursuit of opening your mind leads to unearned wisdom, I felt as though amphetamines lead to an unearned, poorly understood, unsustainable source of focus and executive function.
At any rate, if you're here asking us, there must be some salience in your mind that's pushing you to explore the possibility. I say yes, explore it. But do it openly with a critical mind. Don't assume this ends in a prescription. Consider it self work which could benefit you and your loved ones. Most importantly, don't assume this is a bad thing. ADHD is another permutation of human genetics and environment. It's not an innate disability or disease. You're the same person with or without the diagnosis, and the ultimate goal is to be the best you can be regardless of which mind or body you inherited.
1. If your ADHD hasn't made your life (at least at moments) a living hell, it's probably not something that needs to be addressed very urgently.
2. If you don't think your ADHD is a problem but a therapist thinks it might be, well... That's an ADHD thing, and it might help to entertain the idea and openly explore it with therapy and loved ones.
ADHD, whatever it really is, has made my life very difficult at times. I won't describe why because I don't think our situations and symptoms would align well enough for it to be relevant. I will say though that I managed to make it to 30 as a reasonably introspective, thoughtful, and open person without really cluing in to the fact that I had some severe problems stemming from ADHD. I know that seems contradictory, but the trouble with ADHD is that it's something of a self defeating condition. Some of your internal senses are finely tuned while others are extremely dull, and they often work against each other to suppress and hide each other. It's dangerously compounding. The people around you may never notice this, too - this only works to exacerbate your blind spots in terms of self awareness. It's often true that only the people closest to us, like a spouse or other immediate family, will ever become attuned to our issues. I can say confidently even now that my closest friends had no idea I had ADHD, and some even insisted my diagnosis was an error. I had a good job, I was disciplined, I was a good parent. I used to believe those things too, haha.
All that is to say that if you do have ADHD and think it's fine, well... It might actually be awful for those around you, and that's worth inspecting. However, if it is benign, just let it be.
Others quickly jumped to saying meds changed their life. They changed my perspective of what my life could be, which was useful. I didn't find them useful beyond that. I disliked the side effects, and I found the soft, fleeting rewiring to feel like a mental flip-flopping that made it difficult to pin down which thoughts and actions where "real" or "generated" by drugs. Just as taking LSD in the pursuit of opening your mind leads to unearned wisdom, I felt as though amphetamines lead to an unearned, poorly understood, unsustainable source of focus and executive function.
At any rate, if you're here asking us, there must be some salience in your mind that's pushing you to explore the possibility. I say yes, explore it. But do it openly with a critical mind. Don't assume this ends in a prescription. Consider it self work which could benefit you and your loved ones. Most importantly, don't assume this is a bad thing. ADHD is another permutation of human genetics and environment. It's not an innate disability or disease. You're the same person with or without the diagnosis, and the ultimate goal is to be the best you can be regardless of which mind or body you inherited.
Thank you.
ADHD-PI at 38.
Well, it didn't help except to try psychiatric meds that I can't tolerate. 25 years after dad declared "Damn psychologist [sic] quacks don't know what they're talking about. They're liberals trying to control boys with medication. It's a myth!"
And now I can't interact with people properly because they all think I'm a weirdo.
How many close friends do I have? 0
How many friends do I have? 0
How many acquaintances do I have? 0.25
How many family members do I have? 1
It's not even recognized or appreciated by Americans, they just automatically reject me and then must gossip about how I'm a terrible weirdo. I still try, but there's almost no return on effort. I shouldn't even bother because it's futile.
It's why I do most everything for myself, by myself, and I never depend on anyone else unless I pay them (transactionalization and commodification of every interaction).
If you don't plan on having a family, I highly-suggest staying in top physical and mental shape, or you'll end-up warehoused in some disgusting, horrible place at the end of your life where your life will be hell and cut short.
How many times have I thought about suicide? Hundreds. Seriously? Dozens.
Well, it didn't help except to try psychiatric meds that I can't tolerate. 25 years after dad declared "Damn psychologist [sic] quacks don't know what they're talking about. They're liberals trying to control boys with medication. It's a myth!"
And now I can't interact with people properly because they all think I'm a weirdo.
How many close friends do I have? 0
How many friends do I have? 0
How many acquaintances do I have? 0.25
How many family members do I have? 1
It's not even recognized or appreciated by Americans, they just automatically reject me and then must gossip about how I'm a terrible weirdo. I still try, but there's almost no return on effort. I shouldn't even bother because it's futile.
It's why I do most everything for myself, by myself, and I never depend on anyone else unless I pay them (transactionalization and commodification of every interaction).
If you don't plan on having a family, I highly-suggest staying in top physical and mental shape, or you'll end-up warehoused in some disgusting, horrible place at the end of your life where your life will be hell and cut short.
How many times have I thought about suicide? Hundreds. Seriously? Dozens.
This is harrowing. I hope you can keep finding energy to give people a chance. I believe everyone has their 'people' but the tragedy is that it can take an entire lifetime to discover them.
Finding someone with even less, and giving them some of yours, can have wildly unpredictable rewards. And even if there is no reward, it's still damned distracting in a way that we need.
Don't give up on people, even when they all let you down so far.
Finding someone with even less, and giving them some of yours, can have wildly unpredictable rewards. And even if there is no reward, it's still damned distracting in a way that we need.
Don't give up on people, even when they all let you down so far.
That's the "lite," family-friendly, optimistic version. Between the ages of 13-16, I fantasized repeatedly about how to blow myself up in the middle of nowhere to leave no trace.
When you do the same thing and expect a different result, isn't that the definition of stupidity or insanity? At some point, the problem is you if people react the similarly. So, it's either a matter of forcing other people to be uncomfortable, trying much harder to remember the thousands of ways to not make others uncomfortable, or giving up.
I am guilty of oversharing, of assuming familiarity too quickly, and of anxious-avoidance. And, more recently, I had a test result of testosterone come back as 200 when it was 800 (300-1000 normal)... no idea yet why it is so low, but I do have a headache, sleepiness, sleeplessness, and no energy at all all of the time.
I also need to look at it from another perspective: I am defective in the natural selection of things, or I would've been selected for. That's the breaks of mutations, recombination, and selection: not everyone can be a bulletproof, perfectly clear-headed, polyglot, polymath, artistic, model, comedian, and graceful social master.
Between about 19-20 (1998-9), I went hikikomori around the corner from eBay.
And then, 30-38 (2009-17) I lived in vehicles in the Valley.
I had to move during the pandemic but I don't know anyone in ATX. The neighbors I've met are by-and-large, immature, vain, gossiping kidults so intensely concerned about appearances and status amongst the other elitist, self-absorbed, self-esteem (learned narcissism), entitled nobodies. They're mostly sales people, low-level managers, marketing people, and coders of the Millennial generation from 75th-downwards colleges without advanced degrees who assume they're so amazing and living-it-up because they can afford a relatively-expensive apartment (it's cheap for me). They party too hard with substances, so I also backed-off.
Recently around the pool, I saw a guy who was a dead ringer for a Soviet illegal posing as a WASP from Spies Like Us. The two women he met were wearing dresses that looked like solid-colored Lolita packages with giant bows on the back. They were, of course, unwilling to acknowledge the presence of anyone but themselves. I thought I was watching performance art, some sort of kink, religious sect, foreign visitors, or they arrived on a time-machine from Massachusetts in 1987.
When you do the same thing and expect a different result, isn't that the definition of stupidity or insanity? At some point, the problem is you if people react the similarly. So, it's either a matter of forcing other people to be uncomfortable, trying much harder to remember the thousands of ways to not make others uncomfortable, or giving up.
I am guilty of oversharing, of assuming familiarity too quickly, and of anxious-avoidance. And, more recently, I had a test result of testosterone come back as 200 when it was 800 (300-1000 normal)... no idea yet why it is so low, but I do have a headache, sleepiness, sleeplessness, and no energy at all all of the time.
I also need to look at it from another perspective: I am defective in the natural selection of things, or I would've been selected for. That's the breaks of mutations, recombination, and selection: not everyone can be a bulletproof, perfectly clear-headed, polyglot, polymath, artistic, model, comedian, and graceful social master.
Between about 19-20 (1998-9), I went hikikomori around the corner from eBay.
And then, 30-38 (2009-17) I lived in vehicles in the Valley.
I had to move during the pandemic but I don't know anyone in ATX. The neighbors I've met are by-and-large, immature, vain, gossiping kidults so intensely concerned about appearances and status amongst the other elitist, self-absorbed, self-esteem (learned narcissism), entitled nobodies. They're mostly sales people, low-level managers, marketing people, and coders of the Millennial generation from 75th-downwards colleges without advanced degrees who assume they're so amazing and living-it-up because they can afford a relatively-expensive apartment (it's cheap for me). They party too hard with substances, so I also backed-off.
Recently around the pool, I saw a guy who was a dead ringer for a Soviet illegal posing as a WASP from Spies Like Us. The two women he met were wearing dresses that looked like solid-colored Lolita packages with giant bows on the back. They were, of course, unwilling to acknowledge the presence of anyone but themselves. I thought I was watching performance art, some sort of kink, religious sect, foreign visitors, or they arrived on a time-machine from Massachusetts in 1987.
Oh, dear God. I am so sorry to hear your story.
Don't give up, friend. There's a place on this earth for all of us, no matter how weird we are.
Maybe I just chose the wrong physical place to live amongst a bunch of shallow, narcissistic, Millennial, "party hard, bro!," "stock broker"-types who emotionally failed-to-launch past high school.
All the dudes I swear have an IQ about 105 and do exactly the same thing: show off their muscles everyday at the pool and try to impress the ladies with their physiques, their sunglasses, and backwards hats.
All the dudes I swear have an IQ about 105 and do exactly the same thing: show off their muscles everyday at the pool and try to impress the ladies with their physiques, their sunglasses, and backwards hats.
jiofih(2)
> I went to my therapist to handle a lingering family issue and now we've come up to the ADHD talk
Ditch your therapist.
Ditch your therapist.
That sounds like a very unhelpful response. People with ADHD are known to suffer much higher rates of divorce, because ADHD is largely emotional dis-regulation.
ADHD is often ignored in 'high-functioning' adults who present with anxiety, depression, and relationship issues but it is often the root-cause of these problems.
If a therapist suggest at least exploring ADHD then assume they have very good reason to do so!
ADHD is often ignored in 'high-functioning' adults who present with anxiety, depression, and relationship issues but it is often the root-cause of these problems.
If a therapist suggest at least exploring ADHD then assume they have very good reason to do so!
[deleted]
I'd recommend everyone who thinks he or she has ADHD to keep in mind that there are clinics who literally make money by diagnosing you. So make sure you don't go to one of those. This is a problem, even in the Netherlands https://www.trouw.nl/zorg/in-de-adhd-fabriek-is-de-diagnose-... I wish I could find a translated version for you.
Anyways, Methlyphinidate (ritalin) should be your very LAST step. Before that, clean up your workspace, disable distracting apps on your phone and computer, use a site blocker... And consider that a lack of discipline is not caused by ADHD.
I speak with experience here, because I was "diagnosed" with this "mental illness" before it was cool, about two decades ago, when the teachers noted I couldn't pay attention in class. Took ritalin for about a decade. Always thought I had trouble concentrating, like I was told right? Well, a few years ago I rented an office space with a friend of mine, just the two of us in a very spacious (100m2), light and well-ventilated office. We received no phone calls, there were no people walking in, or cats and girlfriends asking for attention. I had less distractions than I had at home, and much less than in a traditional office. And it was a dedicated area for "work". A comfortable desk and chair, two monitors and a fast pc. Having worked in such a proper environment, I will never say I have trouble concentrating again.
Anyways, what exactly do you think you have to gain by being "diagnosed" with ADHD?
Anyways, Methlyphinidate (ritalin) should be your very LAST step. Before that, clean up your workspace, disable distracting apps on your phone and computer, use a site blocker... And consider that a lack of discipline is not caused by ADHD.
I speak with experience here, because I was "diagnosed" with this "mental illness" before it was cool, about two decades ago, when the teachers noted I couldn't pay attention in class. Took ritalin for about a decade. Always thought I had trouble concentrating, like I was told right? Well, a few years ago I rented an office space with a friend of mine, just the two of us in a very spacious (100m2), light and well-ventilated office. We received no phone calls, there were no people walking in, or cats and girlfriends asking for attention. I had less distractions than I had at home, and much less than in a traditional office. And it was a dedicated area for "work". A comfortable desk and chair, two monitors and a fast pc. Having worked in such a proper environment, I will never say I have trouble concentrating again.
Anyways, what exactly do you think you have to gain by being "diagnosed" with ADHD?
Yeah, if _things_ distract you easily, it's one thing. Notifications are DESIGNED to distract you, if they do, that's not an indicator of anything.
ADHD is more like "I was cooking dinner and got distracted by the idea of cleaning the toilet, so here I am buying new socks. Oh, the unfinished dinner is still on the counter."
ADHD is more like "I was cooking dinner and got distracted by the idea of cleaning the toilet, so here I am buying new socks. Oh, the unfinished dinner is still on the counter."
Your example is a pretty extreme caricature; I suspect many of us are more familiar with the slower but broader version of this sequence where we gain and lose interest in careers/partners/lifestyles with alarming and exhausting frequency.
For some it's not a caricature. For me is how my life looks like without meds. But yeah, ADHD is probably a spectrum.
> Your example is a pretty extreme caricature;
It's a caricature? I've only recently learned that this is not something that everyone struggles with daily...
It's a caricature? I've only recently learned that this is not something that everyone struggles with daily...
> our example is a pretty extreme caricature
Extreme, yes, but far from a caricature.
You should see my office. I’m constantly surrounded by unfinished projects - I either unmedicated and don’t have the ability to finish them because I’m distracted by other things, or I’m medicated and don’t have time to finish them because I’m trying to catch up with the things that I’ve neglected because I didn’t have the ability to prioritize them.
Extreme, yes, but far from a caricature.
You should see my office. I’m constantly surrounded by unfinished projects - I either unmedicated and don’t have the ability to finish them because I’m distracted by other things, or I’m medicated and don’t have time to finish them because I’m trying to catch up with the things that I’ve neglected because I didn’t have the ability to prioritize them.
Wow, this is like a textbook example of how not to comment on ADHD.
1 - Ritalin is not the only treatment meted out to those with ADHD
2 - ADHD isn't an "excuse". If cleaning one's desk was the solution to it, we wouldn't be discussing it so much today - and it wouldn't be one of the most studied-conditions of all time.
1 - Ritalin is not the only treatment meted out to those with ADHD
2 - ADHD isn't an "excuse". If cleaning one's desk was the solution to it, we wouldn't be discussing it so much today - and it wouldn't be one of the most studied-conditions of all time.
> Anyways, what exactly do you think you have to gain by being "diagnosed" with ADHD? Except for an "excuse" for your problems?
For me it helped me realize that I not normal.
I excel at certain things (creative thinking, handling unexpected situations) and I'm hopeless at others (following through on plans that doesn't have to be acted on daily).
I have decided to not use it as an excuse and told my wife so so she doesn't feel sorry for me.
I've decided to exploit my disability for all that it is worth: I deal with tricky customers at work because it is easy for me, I wake up before certain others goes to bed etc etc. I am different and I not only accept it but actively enjoy it and take advantage of it.
Also I know I speak out more easily than others so I accept that I should raise my treshold for when to speak out.
My life has become better after doing this.
Oh, and not a bad word about Ritalin, but be aware that for some it works wonders, for others it has nasty side effects (muscle tension, weight loss) and also the exact brand and capsules makes a difference (yes, they are supposed to be identical but I guess it is something about the microbiome because I have seen it too many times no so.)
For me it helped me realize that I not normal.
I excel at certain things (creative thinking, handling unexpected situations) and I'm hopeless at others (following through on plans that doesn't have to be acted on daily).
I have decided to not use it as an excuse and told my wife so so she doesn't feel sorry for me.
I've decided to exploit my disability for all that it is worth: I deal with tricky customers at work because it is easy for me, I wake up before certain others goes to bed etc etc. I am different and I not only accept it but actively enjoy it and take advantage of it.
Also I know I speak out more easily than others so I accept that I should raise my treshold for when to speak out.
My life has become better after doing this.
Oh, and not a bad word about Ritalin, but be aware that for some it works wonders, for others it has nasty side effects (muscle tension, weight loss) and also the exact brand and capsules makes a difference (yes, they are supposed to be identical but I guess it is something about the microbiome because I have seen it too many times no so.)
As a counterpoint, I was diagnosed with ADD (now known as ADHD-PI) a couple decades ago as a child and initially took medication for it, but complained about the effects and so my parents agreed to stop giving me medication. This kind of decision seems manageable at the time if you're bright enough that you can skate through school regardless of how much work you actually do.
You cannot skate through adulthood this way. My condition, ADHD-PI, is characterized by the tendency to lose focus on dull activities while hyper-focusing on fun activities. If my current task is interesting then I could work even with a rock concert held 5 feet away. This sounds like a superpower but if a task is not interesting then the slightest distraction totally derails me. There are ways for me to trick myself but they are unreliable and my brain will eventually route around them.
I do my best to always work on something interesting, but this isn't always possible and the productivity hit can be quite large. My solution was to get a prescription for Adderall XR. With the benefit of hindsight I regret ever going off medication. I don't think it's always necessary but if you have these problems, you've been diagnosed, and it's severe enough that you have become depressed (this is very common among adults with ADHD) you should really consider it.
You cannot skate through adulthood this way. My condition, ADHD-PI, is characterized by the tendency to lose focus on dull activities while hyper-focusing on fun activities. If my current task is interesting then I could work even with a rock concert held 5 feet away. This sounds like a superpower but if a task is not interesting then the slightest distraction totally derails me. There are ways for me to trick myself but they are unreliable and my brain will eventually route around them.
I do my best to always work on something interesting, but this isn't always possible and the productivity hit can be quite large. My solution was to get a prescription for Adderall XR. With the benefit of hindsight I regret ever going off medication. I don't think it's always necessary but if you have these problems, you've been diagnosed, and it's severe enough that you have become depressed (this is very common among adults with ADHD) you should really consider it.
lose focus on dull activities
This doesn't sound like a mental illness, but rather a part of the human condition, don't you think?
This doesn't sound like a mental illness, but rather a part of the human condition, don't you think?
It all lies on a spectrum. No one likes doing something dull but with ADD it can become so intense as to be debilitating. You always procrastinate to the last second on everything, sometimes far past the last second. Left untreated you attain a reputation as a lazy flake and it affects your work, your relationships, etc.
Yes, and no. Yes, because people do get bored. No, because with ADHD, you can’t even force yourself to focus despite the boredom. Bribes, identification of potential consequences, punishment - none of these work.
> lose focus on dull activities
You mean like getting distracted while actively having sex by the way the light is filtering through the leaves outside my bedroom window?
How about missing half of what your spouse is saying to you because you suddenly remembered an insight you had about how relative speed and the perception of the passage of time are linked, thereby forming a universal constant connecting both?
… or maybe you mean not being able to remember anything you need while at the grocery store because instead you remembered you needed something from the auto parts store, and having to drive to the auto parts store and buy that thing because it completely fills your consciousness and makes you unable to think about what food you need for the week until you have it in your hand?
In all seriousness - whether an activity is “dull” or not has little bearing on whether I can focus on it. My focus is ephemeral, and feels like something completely out of my control most of the time. Medication gives me some ability to direct it.
I hear people talking about “not looking forward” to doing things. I can’t relate at all. I dread even the things I want to do, because I’m not sure if I’ll be able to do them.
You mean like getting distracted while actively having sex by the way the light is filtering through the leaves outside my bedroom window?
How about missing half of what your spouse is saying to you because you suddenly remembered an insight you had about how relative speed and the perception of the passage of time are linked, thereby forming a universal constant connecting both?
… or maybe you mean not being able to remember anything you need while at the grocery store because instead you remembered you needed something from the auto parts store, and having to drive to the auto parts store and buy that thing because it completely fills your consciousness and makes you unable to think about what food you need for the week until you have it in your hand?
In all seriousness - whether an activity is “dull” or not has little bearing on whether I can focus on it. My focus is ephemeral, and feels like something completely out of my control most of the time. Medication gives me some ability to direct it.
I hear people talking about “not looking forward” to doing things. I can’t relate at all. I dread even the things I want to do, because I’m not sure if I’ll be able to do them.
It sounds like you actually have ADHD but can control it with the perfect environment. Others are not so lucky; either lacking the ability to create the perfect ADHD haven or that haven only working for a while before they relapse.
> Anyways, what exactly do you think you have to gain by being "diagnosed" with ADHD? Except for an "excuse" for your problems?
Please don't dismiss mental illness this way.
> Anyways, what exactly do you think you have to gain by being "diagnosed" with ADHD? Except for an "excuse" for your problems?
Please don't dismiss mental illness this way.
That was too harsh, sorry.
Apology accepted. Emotional responses are an ADHD symptom :-)
Hahaha as are breathing and requiring water to stay alive I think
I am in the later half of an adventurous and successful career. I continue to grow, have a long-term stable marriage, good savings, great life. I went to my therapist to handle a lingering family issue and now we've come up to the ADHD talk.
They want to run neurological tests, said I'm 'twice exceptional' and I see this as an expensive and time consuming diversion of my goals. I do admit that there is some validity in the idea, I do see symptoms, but how would this help me at this point in my life?