Show HN: Optery – See the private info data brokers are posting about you online(optery.com)
optery.com
Show HN: Optery – See the private info data brokers are posting about you online
https://www.optery.com/introducing-optery-remove-yourself-from-150-people-search-sites-like-truthfinder-mylife-radaris-socialcatfish-spokeo-whitepages/
103 comments
Be very careful with any tool like this; you'll need to prove who you are by verifying an email address and / or phone number to your real name, which in turn will most likely "confirm" your data with all the upstream brokers (if you pay for some extra service you're twice a sucker with them most likely getting paid by brokers for proving your identity and by you as well for using the "service").
Note: this could be totally legit but in my personal experience, 100% of the tools that promise to do this were in fact shady as fuck and working with the brokers to enrich their data.
Note: this could be totally legit but in my personal experience, 100% of the tools that promise to do this were in fact shady as fuck and working with the brokers to enrich their data.
Hi! Co-creator of Optery here.
We do not sell data. We are not a data broker. We do not have any financial relationship with any data broker. We are not affiliated with any data broker.
We are privacy enthusiasts who believe consumers should be in full control of their data. You can learn more about our mission, background and values here: https://www.optery.com/about-us/
There are some bad actors out there unfortunately. The most well-known is OneRep, which has an opt out and removals business, but are owned by an ownership group that simultaneously runs the People Search Site data broker Nuwber. It's almost certain that they run off the same data spine, meaning your data is co-mingled. Another one is BrandYourself, which includes data brokers as part of its affiliate program. So if you pay them for removals, you are indirectly paying the data brokers. There are others that I have a strong suspicion of, but don't know for certain, so I won't risk sharing their names.
But please don’t lump the rest of us working hard to protect people from data brokers into that same bucket. Along with us, DeleteMe, PrivacyDuck, and Kanary and a few others are above-board with no affiliation or financial relationship with any data broker (to the best of my knowledge). Just working hard for consumer data rights.
The data brokers most likely already have info on you. There is a catch22 where in order to opt out, you have to tell them who you are. Other services use your own private email address to submit the opt outs. We do not share your private email address with any third party, including the data brokers we submit opt outs to.
We do not sell data. We are not a data broker. We do not have any financial relationship with any data broker. We are not affiliated with any data broker.
We are privacy enthusiasts who believe consumers should be in full control of their data. You can learn more about our mission, background and values here: https://www.optery.com/about-us/
There are some bad actors out there unfortunately. The most well-known is OneRep, which has an opt out and removals business, but are owned by an ownership group that simultaneously runs the People Search Site data broker Nuwber. It's almost certain that they run off the same data spine, meaning your data is co-mingled. Another one is BrandYourself, which includes data brokers as part of its affiliate program. So if you pay them for removals, you are indirectly paying the data brokers. There are others that I have a strong suspicion of, but don't know for certain, so I won't risk sharing their names.
But please don’t lump the rest of us working hard to protect people from data brokers into that same bucket. Along with us, DeleteMe, PrivacyDuck, and Kanary and a few others are above-board with no affiliation or financial relationship with any data broker (to the best of my knowledge). Just working hard for consumer data rights.
The data brokers most likely already have info on you. There is a catch22 where in order to opt out, you have to tell them who you are. Other services use your own private email address to submit the opt outs. We do not share your private email address with any third party, including the data brokers we submit opt outs to.
How do you guarantee any data you use is not sold later on down the line??
Per our Privacy Policy: “We don’t sell or rent your personal information to any third parties for any purpose. You are the only owner of your Personal Data and can request disclosure or deletion at any time.”
Also included in our Privacy Policy, as is standard terms in most privacy policies: “If we are involved in a merger, acquisition or asset sale, your Personal Data may be transferred.”
You can learn more from our Privacy Policy and Terms of Service here: https://www.optery.com/privacy-policy/ https://www.optery.com/terms-of-service/
Also included in our Privacy Policy, as is standard terms in most privacy policies: “If we are involved in a merger, acquisition or asset sale, your Personal Data may be transferred.”
You can learn more from our Privacy Policy and Terms of Service here: https://www.optery.com/privacy-policy/ https://www.optery.com/terms-of-service/
I've no idea if you're legit or not,
but wouldn't a bad actor say the same thing?
why should people trust you with their information?
but wouldn't a bad actor say the same thing?
why should people trust you with their information?
Does a good actor actually have a way to prove they are legit?
This comment is a little pointless because almost anything that need your data needs you to trust them.
This comment is a little pointless because almost anything that need your data needs you to trust them.
A good actor doesn't ask for PII in the first place.
In order to opt out of a data broker, you have to submit PII to them to tell them who you are, otherwise, they won't know who to opt out. The exception to this is if the data broker is using an anonymous identifier, like that stored in a browser cookie, in which case you would need to submit that anonymous identifier to them, or somehow give them access to it (e.g. via a browser request).
The People Search Sites we submit opt outs to all transact in raw PII, therefore, if you want to opt out, either you have to submit your own raw PII to them (or a hashed version, where you and the data broker share the key so the underlying profile can be matched) to the data broker so they can identify you, or you can utilize a third-party opt out service (such as Optery) to do this for you. In either case, submitting raw PII to the data broker for them to identify you and opt you out is required.
We only submit to data brokers the minimum amount of information necessary for them to locate your profile, and then remove it, which, in the majority of cases is: First Name, Middle Name, Last Name, City, State, and an email address. If you do a few manual searches at data brokers, you'll see all of this information is already out there.
Note that we never share our customers private email addresses with any third party, including the data brokers we submit opt outs to.
The People Search Sites we submit opt outs to all transact in raw PII, therefore, if you want to opt out, either you have to submit your own raw PII to them (or a hashed version, where you and the data broker share the key so the underlying profile can be matched) to the data broker so they can identify you, or you can utilize a third-party opt out service (such as Optery) to do this for you. In either case, submitting raw PII to the data broker for them to identify you and opt you out is required.
We only submit to data brokers the minimum amount of information necessary for them to locate your profile, and then remove it, which, in the majority of cases is: First Name, Middle Name, Last Name, City, State, and an email address. If you do a few manual searches at data brokers, you'll see all of this information is already out there.
Note that we never share our customers private email addresses with any third party, including the data brokers we submit opt outs to.
Right.
Then you sell your company.
Then the TOS about my PII changes because that TOS is a one way contract subject to the whims of whichever entity owns it at some particular point in time.
And then your company starts selling my PII, despite what you say in a non-legally binding comment on hacker news.
So no thank you.
Then you sell your company.
Then the TOS about my PII changes because that TOS is a one way contract subject to the whims of whichever entity owns it at some particular point in time.
And then your company starts selling my PII, despite what you say in a non-legally binding comment on hacker news.
So no thank you.
Hey there, good luck with the venture and look forward to an EU/UK option.
Just wanted to say IANAL but with putting your details out there as a founder and being in the US, unless you've had a lawyer check over your statements I would be very cautious about naming companies specifically. Would recommend anonymising it or deleting that comment if you can't edit it, unless you've already had it checked out.
Ethics isn't part of their business model so any statement without hard facts backing it can get you into trouble.
Just wanted to say IANAL but with putting your details out there as a founder and being in the US, unless you've had a lawyer check over your statements I would be very cautious about naming companies specifically. Would recommend anonymising it or deleting that comment if you can't edit it, unless you've already had it checked out.
Ethics isn't part of their business model so any statement without hard facts backing it can get you into trouble.
Would be interesting to know why there is no EU option. One possibility is they do not have enough data to offer it; that's good news for EU residents. Another is they want to avoid the costs of GCPR compliance and the possibility of regulatory action in the EU that is de minimis in the US. Either way, the fact they have no EU option does not inspire confidence they are on the users' side. The US is incredibly friendly to these shady "businesses". As such, US residents are "sitting ducks". Very sad. The way to stop this nonsense is with laws not more people accessing the data; trying to label "good guys" and "bad guys" does not work.
Incidentally the same "confirm your data" issue exists every time there is a data breach and people set up "Have I been pwned" websites allowing people to search for their name/e-mail address in the data. (Instead of allowing them download the data and providing instructions how to search it in private.) Not every one of those sites is legit. It is an easy way to at least confirm there is a live advertising target who is actively concerned about this data, and we have an originating IP address for that person. That seems to be what many tech companies want to know, "Is it really you?", so they can more convincingly market "you" as a real target for online advertising.
Incidentally the same "confirm your data" issue exists every time there is a data breach and people set up "Have I been pwned" websites allowing people to search for their name/e-mail address in the data. (Instead of allowing them download the data and providing instructions how to search it in private.) Not every one of those sites is legit. It is an easy way to at least confirm there is a live advertising target who is actively concerned about this data, and we have an originating IP address for that person. That seems to be what many tech companies want to know, "Is it really you?", so they can more convincingly market "you" as a real target for online advertising.
The EU fall under the GDPR and is an “opt in” regime. The U.S. falls under a makeshift patchwork of privacy laws and guidelines, and is an “opt out” regime. In an “opt in” regime (e.g. EU), the onus is on companies to obtain a user’s consent before they can use your data (i.e. they need to get you to “opt in” before they can legally use your data). In an “opt out” regime (e.g. U.S.), the onus is on the consumer to “opt out”, and companies basically have a free-for-all on a user’s data, unless the user exercises their right to “opt out”. (What's crazy is in most U.S. states, consumers have no legal right to opt out, which in the year 2021 is insane. Hopefully a federal privacy law will get passed soon.)
Given this, there is not as strong of a need for an “opt out” tool such as Optery in the EU because the GDPR is already doing a lot of work for you. However, in the U.S. (i.e. an “opt out” regime), the need for an opt out tool such as Optery is much greater because U.S. residents don’t have a privacy law in place like the GDPR to protect them. They either need to submit the opt outs themselves, or use a service like Optery.
That is why there is no EU option.
Given this, there is not as strong of a need for an “opt out” tool such as Optery in the EU because the GDPR is already doing a lot of work for you. However, in the U.S. (i.e. an “opt out” regime), the need for an opt out tool such as Optery is much greater because U.S. residents don’t have a privacy law in place like the GDPR to protect them. They either need to submit the opt outs themselves, or use a service like Optery.
That is why there is no EU option.
yeah, we need to make this kind of data harvesting 100% illegal, and then, tada, no catch 22 to deal with! it’s a non-sequitur to negotiate how much data can be collected and stored by random third parties. the answer should be an unequivocal “none”. then as a nice byproduct, we wouldn’t have stupid equifax mass data leaks every other month.
Whelp. You were right. Their first shady move is auto-opting all signups for their newsletter. Thank goodness I used a disposable email address.
Why would anything think it was a good idea to spam users?? I'm taking them for a test drive and the first thing these guys do is betray trust.
Why would anything think it was a good idea to spam users?? I'm taking them for a test drive and the first thing these guys do is betray trust.
Sadly, I doubt the brokers have much concern about their data being inaccurate!
I used a tool like this posted to HackerNews a couple years back (against my better judgement, eh), and the information on a few of the data brokers afterwards was not only not removed but actually showed a green checkmark ("verified").
It's entirely possible the data brokers are simply using the "opt out" requests as a way to validate the data, but it's just as likely that the tool works with the brokers to confirm information instead of actually removing it.
It's entirely possible the data brokers are simply using the "opt out" requests as a way to validate the data, but it's just as likely that the tool works with the brokers to confirm information instead of actually removing it.
The pricing page doesn't make it clear why it's charged monthly, when it seems like this should be a one-time thing. What happens if I pay for a month, get all the opt-outs, and stop paying?
My cynicism says that an unethical service in your position could hold my identity hostage and immediately re-publish anything as soon as I stop paying. I'm sure you're not doing that, but forgive me for thinking it; we're talking about an entire industry that rests on ethics that many of us would consider stalking and should be profoundly illegal, so the possibility of such behavior is palpable! So, it would be good to explain or clarify _that_ you're not holding me hostage, and lay out the value proposition for an ongoing subscription to what feels like a one-time event.
My cynicism says that an unethical service in your position could hold my identity hostage and immediately re-publish anything as soon as I stop paying. I'm sure you're not doing that, but forgive me for thinking it; we're talking about an entire industry that rests on ethics that many of us would consider stalking and should be profoundly illegal, so the possibility of such behavior is palpable! So, it would be good to explain or clarify _that_ you're not holding me hostage, and lay out the value proposition for an ongoing subscription to what feels like a one-time event.
Hi! Co-creator of Optery here.
Regarding our pricing. It is true that most of the opt out submissions and removals happen up front. If someone wanted to go this route, I'd recommend keeping the subscription active for a minimum of 3 months, and then cancelling the subscription. Some data brokers process opt out removals within 24 hours, but others take several weeks to comply. Also, the majority of data brokers honor opt out requests on the first try, but others require retries or follow ups over several weeks. In our experience, it can take up to 2 - 3 months of effort for the longtail to disappear.
The other consideration is that data brokers are inconsistent in how long they will honor an opt out. The California Consumer Privacy Act (the most strict privacy law in the U.S.) actually permits data brokers to stop honoring an opt out request after 1 year. Some data brokers honor opt outs indefinitely, but others require annual effort to ensure your name and personal info stays removed.
Like antivirus, the landscape is very dynamic. New data brokers come online regularly, data broker databases are constantly being updated and refreshed (sometimes overwriting prior opt out request flags), and we (Optery) are continually expanding our list of data brokers we cover for each paid subscription plan tier. So if you want a service that's continually scanning for your profiles and opting you out on an ongoing basis when new results turn up, that would be a good reason to keep a subscription active on an ongoing basis. But you are free to cancel, or delete your account entirely at any time!
Regarding your second point. We are not a data broker. We do not sell data. We do not publish data. We do not have any financial relationship with any data broker. We are not affiliated with any data broker. There are some opt out services out there that have financial partnerships and affiliations with data brokers – Optery is not one of them. We only submit to data brokers the minimum amount of information necessary for them to locate your profile, and then remove it, which, in the majority of cases is: First Name, Middle Name, Last Name, City, State, and an email address. Note that we never share our customers private email address with any third party, including the data brokers we submit opt outs to.
Regarding our pricing. It is true that most of the opt out submissions and removals happen up front. If someone wanted to go this route, I'd recommend keeping the subscription active for a minimum of 3 months, and then cancelling the subscription. Some data brokers process opt out removals within 24 hours, but others take several weeks to comply. Also, the majority of data brokers honor opt out requests on the first try, but others require retries or follow ups over several weeks. In our experience, it can take up to 2 - 3 months of effort for the longtail to disappear.
The other consideration is that data brokers are inconsistent in how long they will honor an opt out. The California Consumer Privacy Act (the most strict privacy law in the U.S.) actually permits data brokers to stop honoring an opt out request after 1 year. Some data brokers honor opt outs indefinitely, but others require annual effort to ensure your name and personal info stays removed.
Like antivirus, the landscape is very dynamic. New data brokers come online regularly, data broker databases are constantly being updated and refreshed (sometimes overwriting prior opt out request flags), and we (Optery) are continually expanding our list of data brokers we cover for each paid subscription plan tier. So if you want a service that's continually scanning for your profiles and opting you out on an ongoing basis when new results turn up, that would be a good reason to keep a subscription active on an ongoing basis. But you are free to cancel, or delete your account entirely at any time!
Regarding your second point. We are not a data broker. We do not sell data. We do not publish data. We do not have any financial relationship with any data broker. We are not affiliated with any data broker. There are some opt out services out there that have financial partnerships and affiliations with data brokers – Optery is not one of them. We only submit to data brokers the minimum amount of information necessary for them to locate your profile, and then remove it, which, in the majority of cases is: First Name, Middle Name, Last Name, City, State, and an email address. Note that we never share our customers private email address with any third party, including the data brokers we submit opt outs to.
Doesn't supplying all this info about myself just confirm that it is correct, thus further putting my privacy at risk?
> For each user, we typically turn up 2X – 5X more profile match results than Google, or any of our competitors
How? Is it different than manually looking up my info at each site listed under "which data brokers are covered by each plan?"
Not a bad idea for a business, you sell them my data then charge me to have them delete it. I didn't know you had competitors though, now I'm comparing your features to theirs.
> For each user, we typically turn up 2X – 5X more profile match results than Google, or any of our competitors
How? Is it different than manually looking up my info at each site listed under "which data brokers are covered by each plan?"
Not a bad idea for a business, you sell them my data then charge me to have them delete it. I didn't know you had competitors though, now I'm comparing your features to theirs.
We do not sell data. We are not a data broker.
People sign up with us to see what information data brokers are posting about them online, and then are provided with free and paid options to opt out and have themselves removed.
Yes - you could manually look up your info at each site listed under "which data brokers are covered by each plan?" - which would take you many, many hours, or you could create an account with Optery and have us do it for you automatically.
The data brokers most likely already have info on you. There is a catch22 where in order to opt out, you have to tell them who you are. Other services use your own private email address to submit the opt outs. We do not share your private email address with any third party, including the data brokers we submit opt outs to.
People sign up with us to see what information data brokers are posting about them online, and then are provided with free and paid options to opt out and have themselves removed.
Yes - you could manually look up your info at each site listed under "which data brokers are covered by each plan?" - which would take you many, many hours, or you could create an account with Optery and have us do it for you automatically.
The data brokers most likely already have info on you. There is a catch22 where in order to opt out, you have to tell them who you are. Other services use your own private email address to submit the opt outs. We do not share your private email address with any third party, including the data brokers we submit opt outs to.
Can I know your name, address, and phone number please?
Yup, and then they take it down, but re-buy it from a partner next month. And that’s why this service is recurring. They all working together.
I requested that they turn on 2FA, since they themselves will become an attack target by requesting so much PII
That said, my experience with trying to use any opt-out service (automated or otherwise) is filled with a lot of "Oops, server error, try again later" responses at the end of filling out a ton of forms about oneself, so I wonder if Optery has some secret sauce, is persistent in the face of server errors, or just is fire-and-forget and thus follows the "spray and pray" method of account removal
If I paid actual money for this, I'd want some observable metric showing that I had 166 public listings in June, followed by 66 in July, or something of the sort.
That said, my experience with trying to use any opt-out service (automated or otherwise) is filled with a lot of "Oops, server error, try again later" responses at the end of filling out a ton of forms about oneself, so I wonder if Optery has some secret sauce, is persistent in the face of server errors, or just is fire-and-forget and thus follows the "spray and pray" method of account removal
If I paid actual money for this, I'd want some observable metric showing that I had 166 public listings in June, followed by 66 in July, or something of the sort.
Yes - Multi-factor Authentication (MFA) is in development – this is almost ready and will be released soon.
No server errors have been reported like what you’ve experienced at other services. A few people received an error trying to log in without completing the second step in the signup process, but we resolved this immediately and now prevent people from logging in without completing the two-step registration.
Regarding your last comment, for our customers we deliver Removals Status Updates indicating the number of removals that have been completed, are pending, or are in process. The Removals Status Updates are configurable in account settings for delivery weekly, monthly (default), or never. The dashboard also has up-to-date status indicators for removals pending, in progress, not found, etc. Additionally, for our paying customers, we send Removals Reports approximately quarterly summarizing visually all the places customers have been removed and/or cannot be found.
No server errors have been reported like what you’ve experienced at other services. A few people received an error trying to log in without completing the second step in the signup process, but we resolved this immediately and now prevent people from logging in without completing the two-step registration.
Regarding your last comment, for our customers we deliver Removals Status Updates indicating the number of removals that have been completed, are pending, or are in process. The Removals Status Updates are configurable in account settings for delivery weekly, monthly (default), or never. The dashboard also has up-to-date status indicators for removals pending, in progress, not found, etc. Additionally, for our paying customers, we send Removals Reports approximately quarterly summarizing visually all the places customers have been removed and/or cannot be found.
2FA is live now for Optery - here's the help page for setting it up:
https://help.optery.com/en/article/how-to-add-multi-factor-a...
https://help.optery.com/en/article/how-to-add-multi-factor-a...
Aren't these sites all extortion schemes? If you guys are offering to remove someone's info from a site like that, it must mean that you're either hacking into their databases, or you're working with them.
I can see the value proposition here for those sites, because potential victims probably decide to not pay because they see that their information is posted in a lot of sites, and taking them all down would be too expensive. Having a centralized (and clean/fancy looking) service like yours could convince those people to finally pay up, and the profits are split between the network sites.
Or am I completely misunderstanding this?
I can see the value proposition here for those sites, because potential victims probably decide to not pay because they see that their information is posted in a lot of sites, and taking them all down would be too expensive. Having a centralized (and clean/fancy looking) service like yours could convince those people to finally pay up, and the profits are split between the network sites.
Or am I completely misunderstanding this?
The data broker sites sell information about consumers, that’s primarily how they make their money. It is true that some data broker sites will attempt to charge you for removing your information, but everyone can make these removal requests for free, so paying them is not necessary (and highly discouraged!)
To reiterate what I’ve mentioned a few times on this page: We are not a data broker. We do not sell data. We do not publish data. We do not have any financial relationship with any data broker. We are not affiliated with any data broker. Per our Privacy Policy: “We don’t sell or rent your personal information to any third parties for any purpose. You are the only owner of your Personal Data and can request disclosure or deletion at any time.” https://www.optery.com/privacy-policy/
We are a third party service, un-affiliated with any data broker, providing visibility to consumers for free on what private information data brokers are posting about them online. We then have free do-it-yourself tools consumers can use to submit opt outs themselves, or paid plans where we submit the opt outs for our customers.
There are misconceptions, and one of them is about what happens if a customer subsequently cancels our service. If that happens, over time, data brokers may start adding you back. For example, the California Consumer Privacy Act (the most strict privacy law in the U.S.) actually permits data brokers to stop honoring an opt out request after 1 year. Some data brokers honor opt outs indefinitely, but others require annual effort to ensure your name and personal info stays removed. However, under no circumstance will Optery ever re-send information to any data brokers for any kind of re-population effort. The only information we send to data brokers are opt out requests.
To reiterate what I’ve mentioned a few times on this page: We are not a data broker. We do not sell data. We do not publish data. We do not have any financial relationship with any data broker. We are not affiliated with any data broker. Per our Privacy Policy: “We don’t sell or rent your personal information to any third parties for any purpose. You are the only owner of your Personal Data and can request disclosure or deletion at any time.” https://www.optery.com/privacy-policy/
We are a third party service, un-affiliated with any data broker, providing visibility to consumers for free on what private information data brokers are posting about them online. We then have free do-it-yourself tools consumers can use to submit opt outs themselves, or paid plans where we submit the opt outs for our customers.
There are misconceptions, and one of them is about what happens if a customer subsequently cancels our service. If that happens, over time, data brokers may start adding you back. For example, the California Consumer Privacy Act (the most strict privacy law in the U.S.) actually permits data brokers to stop honoring an opt out request after 1 year. Some data brokers honor opt outs indefinitely, but others require annual effort to ensure your name and personal info stays removed. However, under no circumstance will Optery ever re-send information to any data brokers for any kind of re-population effort. The only information we send to data brokers are opt out requests.
Congrats on your product. I'm curious what lead to you all creating this product, after you spent "years working at data brokers."
Perhaps this is too harsh an analogy, but how is this different than someone who spends years working at a tobacco company and then launches a company which sells a smoking cessation product? As other comments here point out, even the process of opting out of these brokers via Optery requires disclosure of personal information and some level of trust. I can imagine the fact that you all previously worked at data brokers make people less likely to trust you with their personal information, rather than more.
Perhaps this is too harsh an analogy, but how is this different than someone who spends years working at a tobacco company and then launches a company which sells a smoking cessation product? As other comments here point out, even the process of opting out of these brokers via Optery requires disclosure of personal information and some level of trust. I can imagine the fact that you all previously worked at data brokers make people less likely to trust you with their personal information, rather than more.
I am also curious about this, and would like a response before signing up. You’ve established your knowledge of data brokerages, but not your motivations.
Did you all have a change of heart? Just see a product opportunity?
Did you all have a change of heart? Just see a product opportunity?
Co-creator of Optery here. Thanks for the good vibes.
The data broker industry is large, and there are hundreds of players across different sub-categories (e.g. people search, email, phone, audience targeting, geolocation, past purchases, TV content viewed, data enrichment, identity graph, etc). Personally, I worked in the audience targeting sub-category for delivering personalized online advertisements. I left the space ~5 years ago when I left Oracle Data Cloud (BlueKai). What we did was anonymized audience targeting for large consumer brand advertisers (i.e. not people search, email, phone, nor anything PII based).
A lot has changed since I entered the space in 2011, and indeed, since I left the space in ~2016. Data has become more weaponized, data brokers have become more brazen in the liberties they take with our data, and the ends they’ll go to circumvent consumer preferences and even privacy laws. Fortunately, a lot of progress is being made. People are becoming more aware, stronger laws are getting passed, technology is being put to better use, and privacy tech is emerging as a more important category.
We felt like we had a lot of inside knowledge of how the industry worked and felt called to put that knowledge to work helping people. This is why providing a Free Basic account that provides a lot of value for free was core to what we wanted to do. Trust is earned over time and we have a lot of work ahead of us given the distrust so many bad actors have established with people’s personal data. We are a new product and company we’re working hard to build trust with our users and customers every day.
The data broker industry is large, and there are hundreds of players across different sub-categories (e.g. people search, email, phone, audience targeting, geolocation, past purchases, TV content viewed, data enrichment, identity graph, etc). Personally, I worked in the audience targeting sub-category for delivering personalized online advertisements. I left the space ~5 years ago when I left Oracle Data Cloud (BlueKai). What we did was anonymized audience targeting for large consumer brand advertisers (i.e. not people search, email, phone, nor anything PII based).
A lot has changed since I entered the space in 2011, and indeed, since I left the space in ~2016. Data has become more weaponized, data brokers have become more brazen in the liberties they take with our data, and the ends they’ll go to circumvent consumer preferences and even privacy laws. Fortunately, a lot of progress is being made. People are becoming more aware, stronger laws are getting passed, technology is being put to better use, and privacy tech is emerging as a more important category.
We felt like we had a lot of inside knowledge of how the industry worked and felt called to put that knowledge to work helping people. This is why providing a Free Basic account that provides a lot of value for free was core to what we wanted to do. Trust is earned over time and we have a lot of work ahead of us given the distrust so many bad actors have established with people’s personal data. We are a new product and company we’re working hard to build trust with our users and customers every day.
Make sure you actually read their ToS and Privacy Policy. This is nearly useless at best and harmful at worst.
"If you purchase a paid subscription plan, as a condition to fulfilling your subscription plan, (i) you must provide your personally identifiable information(“PII”) such as full name, birth year and home address to Optery, Inc. and (ii) Optery, Inc. must send your PII to the data brokers and information aggregators included in the Removal Lists. This information is required by the data brokers and information aggregators in order to locate your record(s) and remove you from their database(s). We cannot control, guarantee or warranty how these third-parties will treat your PII or what they will do with it."
"If you purchase a paid subscription plan, as a condition to fulfilling your subscription plan, (i) you must provide your personally identifiable information(“PII”) such as full name, birth year and home address to Optery, Inc. and (ii) Optery, Inc. must send your PII to the data brokers and information aggregators included in the Removal Lists. This information is required by the data brokers and information aggregators in order to locate your record(s) and remove you from their database(s). We cannot control, guarantee or warranty how these third-parties will treat your PII or what they will do with it."
As has been mentioned elsewhere here, how exactly would it work otherwise? i.e. how do you suggest someone opts out of a data broker, without providing PII?
Opting out presents a catch-22 where in order to opt out, you have to tell them who you are, i.e. provide PII.
If you have a method for opting out of people search data brokers without providing PII, I’d love to hear how that works.
Opting out presents a catch-22 where in order to opt out, you have to tell them who you are, i.e. provide PII.
If you have a method for opting out of people search data brokers without providing PII, I’d love to hear how that works.
Congratulations on launching!
I signed up to take a look around. I’m excited that your free tier includes deep links to remove yourself.
What I would like more than this is a way to feed fake data into the system. Inadvertently I have done so in a variety of ways, such that I regularly receive AARP advertising materials and my landline is on a myriad of robocall lists for senior citizen scams. I would love to see a way to blast totally useless information associated with my name to make the data entirely useless.
I signed up to take a look around. I’m excited that your free tier includes deep links to remove yourself.
What I would like more than this is a way to feed fake data into the system. Inadvertently I have done so in a variety of ways, such that I regularly receive AARP advertising materials and my landline is on a myriad of robocall lists for senior citizen scams. I would love to see a way to blast totally useless information associated with my name to make the data entirely useless.
Thanks for the good vibes, and glad you found the deep links useful!
To your second point about introducing "noise" into your profile at data brokers to make it more useless. That's an interesting idea, but unfortunately, not something we would touch at Operty. Data brokers have hundreds of upstream partners who supply them with information to enrich their profile on you. We send opt out requests to data brokers, and nothing else.
To your second point about introducing "noise" into your profile at data brokers to make it more useless. That's an interesting idea, but unfortunately, not something we would touch at Operty. Data brokers have hundreds of upstream partners who supply them with information to enrich their profile on you. We send opt out requests to data brokers, and nothing else.
I figured you wouldn’t touch it, since you’re a legitimate business and all. But … as previous employees at such data broker companies there must be some strategies that individuals could take to do so :)
I'm currently using OneRep. Can someone please tell me if Optery is better and if OneRep will release all my information if I unsubscribe from them?
There is nothing besides OneRep or any agreements/contracts you have with OneRep that can answer that question for you.
I've often considered building something like this, but shy away each time when I remember that many brokers won't deal with you unless you're an authorized agent of the user you're representing. IIRC, DeleteMe works the way it does because it's actual humans behind the scenes doing a lot of the work.
Anyway, props on the launch, but it's ultimately a very sad indictment of our society that products like these even need to exist.
Anyway, props on the launch, but it's ultimately a very sad indictment of our society that products like these even need to exist.
Thank you for the kind words and for checking out Optery!
We are an Authorized Agent working on behalf of our customers. You can learn more in our Terms of Service here: https://www.optery.com/terms-of-service/
We are an Authorized Agent working on behalf of our customers. You can learn more in our Terms of Service here: https://www.optery.com/terms-of-service/
So I like removing myself from data brokers as a side hobby. In general they seem to be pretty quick to do so. However, OpenCorporates lists my name & home address, and absolutely refuses to remove it, as I'm self-employed and I have a corporate registration with my state. I eventually contacted the CEO directly and he said 'no, we won't remove you, go away'. They're based in the UK. Any general thoughts on them?
Best thing I can say is
(a) move
(b) do NOT register for USPS forwarding to your new address (USPS will help the data brokers)
(c) change your legal address for service of process to a registered agent service, not your residential address
(d) get a UPS mail box for your day-to-day corporate mail, and preferably most of your personal mail as well
Completely 100% refuse to ever give out your residential address for anything business-related.
In addition, a couple of other common culprits for unethically releasing addresses to data brokers:
- DMV -- opt out explicitly
- Voter registration - Don't register to vote if you aren't in a swing state
- Utilities -- opt out explicitly
- Credit cards -- opt out explicitly
- Random small e-commerce websites you need to receive packages from -- ship them to your UPS box or to your workplace if you can
(a) move
(b) do NOT register for USPS forwarding to your new address (USPS will help the data brokers)
(c) change your legal address for service of process to a registered agent service, not your residential address
(d) get a UPS mail box for your day-to-day corporate mail, and preferably most of your personal mail as well
Completely 100% refuse to ever give out your residential address for anything business-related.
In addition, a couple of other common culprits for unethically releasing addresses to data brokers:
- DMV -- opt out explicitly
- Voter registration - Don't register to vote if you aren't in a swing state
- Utilities -- opt out explicitly
- Credit cards -- opt out explicitly
- Random small e-commerce websites you need to receive packages from -- ship them to your UPS box or to your workplace if you can
> Voter registration - Don't register to vote if you aren't in a swing state
With all due respect: this is quite silly. There are many issues in American democracy besides the election of federal officials, and your vote is important. In my home state I voted on >15 ballot initiatives this year and several were decided by a few thousand votes, including kitchen table issues that meaningfully impact your life and immediate community in more tangible ways than our president or your senators.
I would much rather have a voice in e.g. how my community addresses homelessness than avoid the nuisance of cigarette coupons that have followed me across 7 addresses in 3 states.
With all due respect: this is quite silly. There are many issues in American democracy besides the election of federal officials, and your vote is important. In my home state I voted on >15 ballot initiatives this year and several were decided by a few thousand votes, including kitchen table issues that meaningfully impact your life and immediate community in more tangible ways than our president or your senators.
I would much rather have a voice in e.g. how my community addresses homelessness than avoid the nuisance of cigarette coupons that have followed me across 7 addresses in 3 states.
I would recommend against explicitly recommending voter fraud to people, regardless of the intent.
(I didn't think that was illegal if you were in the same district, but edited it anyway)
It is, and it is (I thought?) common knowledge due to the high profile cases where this was abused. There's nothing morally wrong about doing it, but it is illegal and people do face consequences for it.
Hm. So how do homeless people register to vote? Can I register in the same way? Cursory Google search seems to indicate you only need a mailing address, and your residence can be described as a cross street or some such.
I mean, I don't care if the government knows where I live, but I do care if they leak it to people without my explicit consent.
I mean, I don't care if the government knows where I live, but I do care if they leak it to people without my explicit consent.
Congrats on launching. This is a product category that I've been wanting to tackle for quite some time, and it looks like you've done a pretty good job. I also notice that many of the comments are raising the point about how to trust you and the catch-22 of having to provide PII to protect PII. I get it. I was going to launch a product like this as a second or third product of my company so there would be enough trust and good will built up to reduce everyone's apprehension. It's tough. :-/
I see in another comment you want to add support for opting out of zoominfo. Great idea. If I may humbly share some other suggestions:
* A family plan so I can monitor/remove my wife and children's data as well. Even a way to help my parents would be great.
* Opt out of junk snail mail.
* I don't know if this can be automated, but a way to get the credit card companies to stop selling our transaction data. I can't even count how many times Chase has sent us a letter telling us that they've updated their privacy policy, and if we want to opt out of their latest data selling scheme, we need to write a letter and mail it off to some mysterious address and pray that they actually do what they say they will do.
I see in another comment you want to add support for opting out of zoominfo. Great idea. If I may humbly share some other suggestions:
* A family plan so I can monitor/remove my wife and children's data as well. Even a way to help my parents would be great.
* Opt out of junk snail mail.
* I don't know if this can be automated, but a way to get the credit card companies to stop selling our transaction data. I can't even count how many times Chase has sent us a letter telling us that they've updated their privacy policy, and if we want to opt out of their latest data selling scheme, we need to write a letter and mail it off to some mysterious address and pray that they actually do what they say they will do.
Thank you for your thoughtful and encouraging words. Each of your suggestions is on our roadmap.
After adding Multi-Factor Authentication (MFA), which is nearly complete and will be released soon, our second most popular feature request is to add a family plan. This is high on our list and we plan to offer a solution for this in the coming months.
After adding Multi-Factor Authentication (MFA), which is nearly complete and will be released soon, our second most popular feature request is to add a family plan. This is high on our list and we plan to offer a solution for this in the coming months.
US only. Please make it clear before asking for email / pwd to sign up.
Sorry about that. We just updated our sign up page to make this more clear.
I signed up for an account and all I see on the dashboard is...
"Application error: a client-side exception has occurred (developer guidance)."
"Application error: a client-side exception has occurred (developer guidance)."
There are two steps in the signup process. Step 1 is for basic email and password. Step 2 is for the bare minimum information necessary to find your profiles at data brokers.
We found when people skipped step 2 and then logged in, they would get this error. We fixed the bug and have made step 2 required.
Here's more info: https://help.optery.com/en/article/why-does-optery-need-so-m...
We found when people skipped step 2 and then logged in, they would get this error. We fixed the bug and have made step 2 required.
Here's more info: https://help.optery.com/en/article/why-does-optery-need-so-m...
I did a version of this by Googling my name (as a phrase, with and without middle initial) combined with city names or street address fragments I’ve lived at. I then submitted removal requests for anything I found.
I ended up submitting about 10 requests, 7 or 8 of which were online.
Of course, not all data brokers have publicly indexed page, but a lot do.
I ended up submitting about 10 requests, 7 or 8 of which were online.
Of course, not all data brokers have publicly indexed page, but a lot do.
This is great! A lot of people prefer to submit the opt outs themselves. Our Free Basic account can be used to help people do-it-yourself faster by helping with the discovery process.
If you choose to sign up for Optery, next to each data broker listing we provide the opt out link and opt out email address to make it easy to navigate to.
When submitting your own opt outs to these companies directly, we highly recommend creating a disposable email address, and Not using your primary email address, as just reaching out to them with an email often adds you to their email lists.
If you choose to sign up for Optery, next to each data broker listing we provide the opt out link and opt out email address to make it easy to navigate to.
When submitting your own opt outs to these companies directly, we highly recommend creating a disposable email address, and Not using your primary email address, as just reaching out to them with an email often adds you to their email lists.
All you need to know:
> If you purchase a paid subscription plan, as a condition to fulfilling your subscription plan, (i) you must provide your personally identifiable information(“PII”) such as full name, birth year and home address to Optery, Inc. and (ii) Optery, Inc. must send your PII to the data brokers and information aggregators included in the Removal Lists. This information is required by the data brokers and information aggregators in order to locate your record(s) and remove you from their database(s). We cannot control, guarantee or warranty how these third-parties will treat your PII or what they will do with it. By purchasing and maintaining an active paid subscription, you approve Optery, Inc. to submit your PII to data brokers and information aggregators for the purposes submitting opt out, suppression and removal requests. If you do not wish to submit your PII to data brokers and information aggregators for the purposes submitting opt out, suppression and removal requests, then you should not use Optery, Inc.’s Removal Services.
> If you purchase a paid subscription plan, as a condition to fulfilling your subscription plan, (i) you must provide your personally identifiable information(“PII”) such as full name, birth year and home address to Optery, Inc. and (ii) Optery, Inc. must send your PII to the data brokers and information aggregators included in the Removal Lists. This information is required by the data brokers and information aggregators in order to locate your record(s) and remove you from their database(s). We cannot control, guarantee or warranty how these third-parties will treat your PII or what they will do with it. By purchasing and maintaining an active paid subscription, you approve Optery, Inc. to submit your PII to data brokers and information aggregators for the purposes submitting opt out, suppression and removal requests. If you do not wish to submit your PII to data brokers and information aggregators for the purposes submitting opt out, suppression and removal requests, then you should not use Optery, Inc.’s Removal Services.
> you approve Optery, Inc. to submit your PII to data brokers and information aggregators for the purposes submitting opt out, suppression and removal requests
I've successfully removed my address from almost every data broker without giving out this information. One who had my old address initially wanted more of my info to remove my info, so instead of doing that, I sent them a cease and desist, and that worked.
Can you please do that instead of sending more PII to people than what they already have?
I've successfully removed my address from almost every data broker without giving out this information. One who had my old address initially wanted more of my info to remove my info, so instead of doing that, I sent them a cease and desist, and that worked.
Can you please do that instead of sending more PII to people than what they already have?
Could you share your cease and desist template?
It's incredible how many companies exist solely to collect (and sell?) personal data. I was ignorant to just how wide spread bits of my data were until I fired up Optery. It was sorta shocking to see all the results.
I live in California. Will any of the data brokers actually delete their data about me, or do they just stop selling it for a while?
What about Acxiom?
What about Acxiom?
I don't understand why I need to upgrade from Core to Extended to find out if Ultimate is right for me?
That's a great question. This is our first time sharing publicly, and this is great feedback that we might we need to change that.
The intention is to tier the paid version of the product in terms of price and value, but that may not be the best place to do it.
That said, as soon as you receive your Exposure Report by email (typically within ~24 hours), it will include screen shots for the data brokers covered by the Ultimate plan, so you will have some visibility there for help deciding.
The intention is to tier the paid version of the product in terms of price and value, but that may not be the best place to do it.
That said, as soon as you receive your Exposure Report by email (typically within ~24 hours), it will include screen shots for the data brokers covered by the Ultimate plan, so you will have some visibility there for help deciding.
Can you share a sample report that your site can generate? I am on mobile and can only see one animation.
One product that I could see myself paying for is an app that poisons data brokers' profiles of me, but this, I am guessing, would be pretty hard to do.
One product that I could see myself paying for is an app that poisons data brokers' profiles of me, but this, I am guessing, would be pretty hard to do.
If you sign up for a free account, you will get a free Exposure Report that is usually very eye opening. Most people’s jaws drop when they see how exposed they are. Highly recommended!
Instead of opt out I’d like the option to poison the pool. I think opt out is too risky but flooding it with obviously bad data would be more useful as bad data will likely propogate between brokers
Pretty sure a free service to do this was posted here a few months ago. I used it to get a lot of stuff removed, was very effective.
I mentioned a free service posted here recently in another comment (pasted again below) – was this it?
The top comment in another data privacy Show HN shared recently illustrates the gap our tool fills: "Does it take into account whether or not a given data broker currently has my data? Since the deletion requests contain my personal info (for some, a fair amount of it), I'd rather not have that sent to 500 brokers if only 10 or 20 of them actually have me in their database." (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27146828)
The top comment in another data privacy Show HN shared recently illustrates the gap our tool fills: "Does it take into account whether or not a given data broker currently has my data? Since the deletion requests contain my personal info (for some, a fair amount of it), I'd rather not have that sent to 500 brokers if only 10 or 20 of them actually have me in their database." (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27146828)
How does this compare to DeleteMe (which I already pay for)?
If you click through the original Show HN posted link at the very top of the page, there's a section on the Introducing Optery page titled "How Is Optery Different From Competitors?" with differentiators from DeleteMe, OneRep, PrivacyDuck, and PrivacyBot there.
If you already have a DeleteMe subscription (or any other competitor opt out / removals service), you can sign up for Optery for free, and use the Free Basic account results to keep them honest and check their work.
In our experience, we typically find 20 - 40 profiles DeleteMe has missed and left exposed. If you do this, please send us a message and let us know what you find.
If you already have a DeleteMe subscription (or any other competitor opt out / removals service), you can sign up for Optery for free, and use the Free Basic account results to keep them honest and check their work.
In our experience, we typically find 20 - 40 profiles DeleteMe has missed and left exposed. If you do this, please send us a message and let us know what you find.
Doesn't work for Canada? Only lets me put in US states
Optery is U.S. only at this time
What about ZoomInfo? Can it remove my profile from there?
I mean if I am going to pay that much, would be nice to remove it from a huge provider that leads to tons of spammy sales calls, rather than the low hanging niche ones like spokeo
Hi! Co-creator of Optery here.
This is a great question. There are hundreds of data brokers across different categories (e.g. people search, email, phone, audience marketing, geolocation, past purchases, TV viewing, etc). Many data brokers operate across categories.
We've started off with the People Search Site category first because that's where we sensed the most pain from the users we spoke with.
We are constantly expanding our coverage, and will be adding more data broker categories in the near future. ZoomInfo is high up on the list to be added soon because we get asked about them a lot.
This is a great question. There are hundreds of data brokers across different categories (e.g. people search, email, phone, audience marketing, geolocation, past purchases, TV viewing, etc). Many data brokers operate across categories.
We've started off with the People Search Site category first because that's where we sensed the most pain from the users we spoke with.
We are constantly expanding our coverage, and will be adding more data broker categories in the near future. ZoomInfo is high up on the list to be added soon because we get asked about them a lot.
How and why are you better then onerep.com ?
If you click through the original Show HN posted link at the very top of the page, there's a section on the Introducing Optery page titled "How Is Optery Different From Competitors?" with differentiators from OneRep, DeleteMe, PrivacyDuck, and PrivacyBot there.
If you already have a OneRep subscription (or any other competitor opt out / removals service), you can sign up for Optery for free, and use the Free Basic account results to keep them honest and check their work.
In our experience, we typically find 20 - 40 profiles other services have missed and left exposed.
If you already have a OneRep subscription (or any other competitor opt out / removals service), you can sign up for Optery for free, and use the Free Basic account results to keep them honest and check their work.
In our experience, we typically find 20 - 40 profiles other services have missed and left exposed.
> After many years working at data brokers
So you worked for years at (immoral) data harvesters but now you're a changed man who pinky swears to not use people's data they submit to you in a bad way? Sorry, I don't trust this product yet.
So you worked for years at (immoral) data harvesters but now you're a changed man who pinky swears to not use people's data they submit to you in a bad way? Sorry, I don't trust this product yet.
The only way I'd trust such a service is if it's domain name ends in .gov (or equivalent for other countries) and is free or a nominal fee.
The USDS should work on stuff like this.
https://www.usds.gov
https://www.usds.gov
This feels like FTC territory. USDS is more about provisioning services AFAIK. However, new regulations would be required, and I don't really see that happening.
I see this like a hacker who grows up and realizes that what they did before was wrong. People change. And the best people to address these issues head on- unfortunately- almost always started on the “wrong” side of the issue.
Speaking from personal experience, you can reform yourself.
Speaking from personal experience, you can reform yourself.
>Speaking from personal experience, you can reform yourself.
I 100% agree that people can reform themselves, but I also can just as easily see it not happening. Currently the product is "trust me" with little other than that as far as I can see. If they go the distance to make sure everything is fully transparent then I would be more neutral. But when my personal data is on the line I try to be a bit more skeptical.
I 100% agree that people can reform themselves, but I also can just as easily see it not happening. Currently the product is "trust me" with little other than that as far as I can see. If they go the distance to make sure everything is fully transparent then I would be more neutral. But when my personal data is on the line I try to be a bit more skeptical.
I am a skeptic by nature but the amount of data they’re asking for is no more than what was already publicly available about me online. So my own personal risk assessment was low. As an FYI I requested my info dump from Verizon and they track all sorts of random data points - my estimated household income, hobbies, etc.!
If they asked for ssn, mother’s maiden name, and my third grade teachers name upon signup, ok yeah I’d pass. But it was no more than a google of my name and city/state already returns from these data brokers.
I find the skepticism here a little amusing considering the amount of data we share without even thinking about it - stuff that’s way more identifying and sensitive than your name and current city/state.
If they asked for ssn, mother’s maiden name, and my third grade teachers name upon signup, ok yeah I’d pass. But it was no more than a google of my name and city/state already returns from these data brokers.
I find the skepticism here a little amusing considering the amount of data we share without even thinking about it - stuff that’s way more identifying and sensitive than your name and current city/state.
I'd like to see beyondd (one of the co-founders on here) to address this
I responded to this question on this page under a different sub-thread
After many years working at data brokers such as BlueKai, Lusha, and Oracle Data Cloud, we've spent the last few months building a tool that provides granular visibility into the private information posted about you online by people search sites like TruthFinder, MyLife, Radaris, CellRevealer, Spokeo, WhitePages, etc.
After sign up, we provide deep links to your profile at over 100 of these sites, as well as an Exposure Report with screenshots so you can see exactly what these sites are posting about you. There are typically 40 - 60 matches for each user that signs up.
The top comment in another data privacy Show HN shared recently illustrates the gap our tool fills: "Does it take into account whether or not a given data broker currently has my data? Since the deletion requests contain my personal info (for some, a fair amount of it), I'd rather not have that sent to 500 brokers if only 10 or 20 of them actually have me in their database." (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27146828)
Full disclosure, signing up is free and provides the visibility into what data brokers are posting about you described above, but we also have paid subscription tiers where we submit and manage the opt outs and removals.
If you want to skip the overview content, you can go straight to the signup here: https://app.optery.com/signup
(We only support U.S. residents at this time.)