Beneath Istanbul, Archaeologists Explore an Ancient City's Byzantine Basements(npr.org)
npr.org
Beneath Istanbul, Archaeologists Explore an Ancient City's Byzantine Basements
https://www.npr.org/2021/07/23/1016814868/beneath-istanbul-archaeologists-explore-an-ancient-citys-byzantine-basements
28 comments
As an Istanbul citizen, my personal impression is that there is a much more pragmatic reason.
Istanbul still sees decent construction activity both downtown (where old buildings are torn down and replaced with taller ones) and in the suburbs (the city got so big that we inadvertently say "I'm going to Istanbul" when we really mean the city centre).
So in theory, as the construction teams dig not only a wider area but also deeper, they should discover more and more historical artifacts, right?..
In Turkey, law says you can own the land but not any natural resources found underneath. So if word gets out that you've stumbled upon oil, stuff of archeological importance, gold etc. etc. while digging to lay foundations, your construction project is halted until the authorities decide what to do with your discovery. You may even be forced to sell your property back for its fair market value (ie. you get a decent offer but you can't refuse it -- you can just sue to get the offer increased)
You probably see where this is going: The sytem as it is incentivizes any artifacts found during private construction activities to just vaporize. Tragic, but I don't know what could be done about this. Only stuff found on state-sponsored projects seem to see the light of day, and of those that do, only ones that are useful to politicians are made part of the daily government propaganda, so you don't really hear about others unless you make an effort.
With this said, as a counterpoint maybe, they found a decent amount of stuff from non-Turkish / non-islamic periods during the recent boring operations for the newest subway line and they should be on display somewhere.
Istanbul still sees decent construction activity both downtown (where old buildings are torn down and replaced with taller ones) and in the suburbs (the city got so big that we inadvertently say "I'm going to Istanbul" when we really mean the city centre).
So in theory, as the construction teams dig not only a wider area but also deeper, they should discover more and more historical artifacts, right?..
In Turkey, law says you can own the land but not any natural resources found underneath. So if word gets out that you've stumbled upon oil, stuff of archeological importance, gold etc. etc. while digging to lay foundations, your construction project is halted until the authorities decide what to do with your discovery. You may even be forced to sell your property back for its fair market value (ie. you get a decent offer but you can't refuse it -- you can just sue to get the offer increased)
You probably see where this is going: The sytem as it is incentivizes any artifacts found during private construction activities to just vaporize. Tragic, but I don't know what could be done about this. Only stuff found on state-sponsored projects seem to see the light of day, and of those that do, only ones that are useful to politicians are made part of the daily government propaganda, so you don't really hear about others unless you make an effort.
With this said, as a counterpoint maybe, they found a decent amount of stuff from non-Turkish / non-islamic periods during the recent boring operations for the newest subway line and they should be on display somewhere.
I'm Greek and the same thing you descrie happens in Greece also. People dig to lay the foundations of their new house and find ancient ruins or artifacts. They whistle innocently and pay the engineer to cover them up and say nothing because they know that if they call the authorities it will take a decade before building work can proceed because this kind of thing is nobody's priority and the red tape is like the infinite tapes of a UTM. The total value of archaeological treasures buried under the foundations of summer houses and condos must dwarf everything displayed in museums around the world.
As to Istanbul - the City has stood there for two and a half thousand years. If you dig under the Byzantine ruins, you'll find even more ancient ruins, thousands of years of layers of ancient ruins, one on top of the other like a mille-feuille. Who's going to excavate all that? Especially when there's, you know, people living on top.
And the same goes for all the large cities that have been inhabited since antiquity all around the world. Think Cairo, Alexandria, Rome, Naples, Plovdiv, Vukovar, Belgrade, Valencia, Damascus, Baghdad, Beijing, Nanjing, Kashgar, Delhi... phew. Here's more:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_continuously_in...
So it's got nothing to do with "Osmanic heritage" or nationalism. It's just not a problem that can easily be solved.
As to Istanbul - the City has stood there for two and a half thousand years. If you dig under the Byzantine ruins, you'll find even more ancient ruins, thousands of years of layers of ancient ruins, one on top of the other like a mille-feuille. Who's going to excavate all that? Especially when there's, you know, people living on top.
And the same goes for all the large cities that have been inhabited since antiquity all around the world. Think Cairo, Alexandria, Rome, Naples, Plovdiv, Vukovar, Belgrade, Valencia, Damascus, Baghdad, Beijing, Nanjing, Kashgar, Delhi... phew. Here's more:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_continuously_in...
So it's got nothing to do with "Osmanic heritage" or nationalism. It's just not a problem that can easily be solved.
I think there are a couple of reasons which work one for the other.
The first is the mentality of "conquest" that a part of the population (and the ruling party) share. Those people don't see byzantine-era artifacts as part of their history (unless it is a church converted to mosque). Many part of the ancient city have been left to rot and only with the latest (opposition-linked) administration some restoration work has started.
The second reason is corruption: big construction companies own a good amount of the turkish media and state sponsored projects are one way for the ruling party to thanks them for a pro-government information landscape. As such the state has little interest in blocking a construction project because some artefacts were found. As a bonus, whatever is found can be sold to smugglers
The first is the mentality of "conquest" that a part of the population (and the ruling party) share. Those people don't see byzantine-era artifacts as part of their history (unless it is a church converted to mosque). Many part of the ancient city have been left to rot and only with the latest (opposition-linked) administration some restoration work has started.
The second reason is corruption: big construction companies own a good amount of the turkish media and state sponsored projects are one way for the ruling party to thanks them for a pro-government information landscape. As such the state has little interest in blocking a construction project because some artefacts were found. As a bonus, whatever is found can be sold to smugglers
I think most countries have laws to handle archeology on building sites, in France it's called "archeologie preventive":
https://www.culture.gouv.fr/Regions/Drac-Grand-Est/patrimoin...
Then of course there is general attitude of the local population towards common goods like archeology and enforcement policies (or lack thereof).
https://www.culture.gouv.fr/Regions/Drac-Grand-Est/patrimoin...
Then of course there is general attitude of the local population towards common goods like archeology and enforcement policies (or lack thereof).
This direct quote from the article seems to avert that exact issue:
> Istanbul's Byzantine basement surfeit survives in part thanks to a 1980s cultural heritage code that allows people who find something ancient on their property to keep it, without worrying that the government will seize it.
> "Thanks to this new law, a lot of historical things were protected by the locals in Istanbul," Ozgumus says. "Before, they were destroying it."
> Istanbul's Byzantine basement surfeit survives in part thanks to a 1980s cultural heritage code that allows people who find something ancient on their property to keep it, without worrying that the government will seize it.
> "Thanks to this new law, a lot of historical things were protected by the locals in Istanbul," Ozgumus says. "Before, they were destroying it."
Keeping the artifact is one thing, your construction project being delayed for months because now team of archeologists takes over and starts looking for more artifacts is another.
It's not unrealistic that there are political preferences in Turkey. However, I think that is hard to say. I certainly would not state it in the absolute. Sites that are not connected to the Ottomans, easily excavated and then visible to tourists are naturally rare in Istanbul.
But many of the sites are not Ottoman in origin, and are quite central to the cities archeological portfolio. On the other hand, artifacts (like the ships they discovered during tunnel excavations) are also on display. They are just several layers under the Ottoman Istanbul so when you find them, it's not going to be a whole site you can visit.
Another hint might be that if you go outside of Istanbul, there are a lot of Greek era sites (or even earlier sites) that are "the" highlight of the adjacent region or city. Assos, Ephesus, Troy, many things in Bodrum, Cappadocia and many more. Here, the problem is clearly money. Take Assos. They do what they can, and it's fully excavated. There just don't seem to be the resources to feature it in a more exciting fashion.
Finally, knowing people who are Turkish archeologists, I would say they care about the entire history of the place just as any other archeologist would.
In any case, I also hope there will be (and it seems at times that there is) more resources to excavate, understand and display all the historical sites found in Turkey.
To be clear, I am not Turkish, but I go there often.
But many of the sites are not Ottoman in origin, and are quite central to the cities archeological portfolio. On the other hand, artifacts (like the ships they discovered during tunnel excavations) are also on display. They are just several layers under the Ottoman Istanbul so when you find them, it's not going to be a whole site you can visit.
Another hint might be that if you go outside of Istanbul, there are a lot of Greek era sites (or even earlier sites) that are "the" highlight of the adjacent region or city. Assos, Ephesus, Troy, many things in Bodrum, Cappadocia and many more. Here, the problem is clearly money. Take Assos. They do what they can, and it's fully excavated. There just don't seem to be the resources to feature it in a more exciting fashion.
Finally, knowing people who are Turkish archeologists, I would say they care about the entire history of the place just as any other archeologist would.
In any case, I also hope there will be (and it seems at times that there is) more resources to excavate, understand and display all the historical sites found in Turkey.
To be clear, I am not Turkish, but I go there often.
> I also hope there will be... more resources to excavate, understand and and display all the historical sites found in Turkey
I completely agree. I wish there was an international scientific funding body like the NSF. It could, for instance, provide grants to fund regional archaeology. Life is not easy for scientists in countries that don't fund it. It could be such a good thing for the world.
I completely agree. I wish there was an international scientific funding body like the NSF. It could, for instance, provide grants to fund regional archaeology. Life is not easy for scientists in countries that don't fund it. It could be such a good thing for the world.
Thanks for the background information. Highly appreciated.
Letting things fall into disrepair is at least a gentle iconoclasm !
Something I've wondered about art and traditions that predate Islam, is how many of those spiritual and material traditions were appropriated or assimilated into Islam and have survived for centuries by becoming mainstream. e.g. Christmas - the tree, the 3 days of the solstice relating to the resurrection, it was a long time before it became common knowledge that those "Christian" traditions pre-date Christ, right? So what ancient history is staring us in the face because we've been calling it Islamic all this time?
Something I've wondered about art and traditions that predate Islam, is how many of those spiritual and material traditions were appropriated or assimilated into Islam and have survived for centuries by becoming mainstream. e.g. Christmas - the tree, the 3 days of the solstice relating to the resurrection, it was a long time before it became common knowledge that those "Christian" traditions pre-date Christ, right? So what ancient history is staring us in the face because we've been calling it Islamic all this time?
Turkish culture is filled with traditions that predate Islam and have, what Turks like to call, "Shamanic" origin. The divide may even be more stark, because while they are common, they are in some way counter to fundamentalist views (which, to be fair, are not common there as they are in some Arab countries).
One way to approach the topic might be to watch "The Gift" on Netflix and realize that the book was written by a woman who practices (quite successfully, too) these Shamanic ideas. Then, the context would be that these sorts of stories and myths are extremely popular in Turkey (which is why the book was a hit) and that they live - in an uneasy, unspoken relationship - side by side with Islamic teachings that are culturally from a very different origin. Another option is to look at Sufism and its capricious relationship with official, state sponsored Islam. Many Turks I know like to view themselves as heavily inspired by Sufism.
Not sure if I am qualified to explicate on traditions in detail, but my feeling is your intuition holds quite true, at least in Turkey. Many little things, from reading coffee, to marriage rituals, to protection against "evil eyes" and spirits, personification of devils and angels, things that are bad luck and generally most "Islamic" things that you find are unique to Turkey compared to Arab countries - are probably things that predate Islam.
One way to approach the topic might be to watch "The Gift" on Netflix and realize that the book was written by a woman who practices (quite successfully, too) these Shamanic ideas. Then, the context would be that these sorts of stories and myths are extremely popular in Turkey (which is why the book was a hit) and that they live - in an uneasy, unspoken relationship - side by side with Islamic teachings that are culturally from a very different origin. Another option is to look at Sufism and its capricious relationship with official, state sponsored Islam. Many Turks I know like to view themselves as heavily inspired by Sufism.
Not sure if I am qualified to explicate on traditions in detail, but my feeling is your intuition holds quite true, at least in Turkey. Many little things, from reading coffee, to marriage rituals, to protection against "evil eyes" and spirits, personification of devils and angels, things that are bad luck and generally most "Islamic" things that you find are unique to Turkey compared to Arab countries - are probably things that predate Islam.
Very few. The meteor of Kabaa is an exception. Otherwise islamic cultures are known for destroying archeological sites (Buddha statues in Afghanistan, Palmyr) even of their own religion (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_early_Islamic...).
> Otherwise islamic cultures are known for destroying archeological sites
I’m not sure that this is an Islamic trait so much as a victor/oppressor behaviour.
You see this in buildings throughout history, where the dominant power converts existing structures to their usage, or destroys things they don’t want. It’s how rulers seek to dominate.
I’m not sure that this is an Islamic trait so much as a victor/oppressor behaviour.
You see this in buildings throughout history, where the dominant power converts existing structures to their usage, or destroys things they don’t want. It’s how rulers seek to dominate.
I remember when those Buddha statues were blown up by the Taliban in 2001. It was international news:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamiyan
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamiyan
Another point is that most Islamic heritage are mosques. It's very hard to find a mosque not cared for (even in quite poor countries). So Muslims will turn a blind eye on most things (their house, hospital, etc...) but not their mosque.
If they didn't want this heritage, they'd have already got rid of it through destruction (see Syria/Iraq); but my guess is that there isn't enough money to take care of it.
If they didn't want this heritage, they'd have already got rid of it through destruction (see Syria/Iraq); but my guess is that there isn't enough money to take care of it.
Eeh not really. People cares more of their houses definitely, the maintenance funding of mosques and hospitals are also entirely different. I don't think your assessment is realistic.
HN continues to amaze me, seeing this fascinating but obscure topic on the main page was a Sunday morning surprise.
There are many sources on these tunnels and passages, unfortunately not many of them in English. Here’s a video of one of the more accessible tunnels, under the hippodrome: https://youtu.be/TeP9BYjtiiI If you are curious, these were also featured in Expedition Unknown, streaming on Amazon Prime.
Many claim that there are tunnels from the city to Prince’ Islands, going under the sea, but these have not been found yet.
There are many sources on these tunnels and passages, unfortunately not many of them in English. Here’s a video of one of the more accessible tunnels, under the hippodrome: https://youtu.be/TeP9BYjtiiI If you are curious, these were also featured in Expedition Unknown, streaming on Amazon Prime.
Many claim that there are tunnels from the city to Prince’ Islands, going under the sea, but these have not been found yet.
Regarding the sources: It's amazing how much of the Latin corpus still hasn't been translated to English. (I'm working on a much later set of NeoLatin translations) I've found there are great tools like OCR4all and alpheios.net — but there is a huge amount of specialized labor involved and virtually no funding.
And, worth mentioning that the situation is far worse for Sanskrit and other Indian languages, where thousands of unknown texts are literally moulding away in temple basements. I personally think it is tragic to lose cultural legacy like that.
Reminds me of how Ankh-Morpork is mostly built on Ankh-Morpork, most people have basements they don't even know they have and dwards can dig through the lower, older layers of the city to get around without using the surface streets. I can't find a quote on the internet, but wikipedia says a few words about this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankh-Morpork#Geography
Edit: Oh, wait, found it, here:
"To William’s complete lack of surprise, the little cellar under the shed was much better built than the shed itself. But then, practically everywhere in Ankh-Morpork had cellars that were once the first or even second or third floors of ancient buildings, built at the time of one of the city’s empires when men thought that the future was going to last for ever. And then the river had flooded and brought mud with it, and walls had gone higher and, now, what Ankh-Morpork was built on was mostly Ankh-Morpork. People said that anyone with a good sense of direction and a pickaxe could cross the city underground by simply knocking holes in walls."
https://www.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/8pt83h/can_anyon...
Quoted from The Truth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankh-Morpork#Geography
Edit: Oh, wait, found it, here:
"To William’s complete lack of surprise, the little cellar under the shed was much better built than the shed itself. But then, practically everywhere in Ankh-Morpork had cellars that were once the first or even second or third floors of ancient buildings, built at the time of one of the city’s empires when men thought that the future was going to last for ever. And then the river had flooded and brought mud with it, and walls had gone higher and, now, what Ankh-Morpork was built on was mostly Ankh-Morpork. People said that anyone with a good sense of direction and a pickaxe could cross the city underground by simply knocking holes in walls."
https://www.reddit.com/r/discworld/comments/8pt83h/can_anyon...
Quoted from The Truth.
If underground things(ancient, modern, all of them) appeal to you - there is a book "Underground" by Will Hunt you may enjoy. He doesn't explore Istanbul, takes you on a tour of several other ancient ruins underneath modern day cities. If you're into that kinda thing, I recommend it.
Nothing is byzantine. It is either roman or greek. People living in these areas never called themselves byzantines.
Just because folks didn't call themselves byzantines doesn't mean that the Byzantine era did not exist.
Nice Work
But again this just my personal impression from visiting the area and maybe there are budgetary reasons instead of religious chauvinism.