Ask a bartender a question(datasecretslox.com)
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Ask a bartender a question
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84 comments
Dive bars are the best. They're the last parts on the fringes of society that's accessible to all, but where anything can still happen. You never know who will show up, where they'll be from, what may be going on in the bathroom stalls when you walk in, what drugs may be offered in the bathroom, what drugs will be getting consumed in the bathroom. Sadly they're slowly disappearing as real estate prices soar and and most of America's cities/towns slowly homogenize into a never-ending strip mall.
Yeah, it turns out all the "An X and a Y walked into a bar" jokes are based in reality.
Many years ago, my friends and I had a night in our favorite dive. That bar draws college kids, Brazilian immigrants, alcoholic townies, yuppies, punks - everyone. It was packed: there was nowhere to sit and hardly anywhere to stand. When we started pushing through to the open space in back, a literal giant of a man who had a booth to himself invited us to sit with him because he liked my tattoos. As the night wore on we discovered 1. the giant man had a peg leg; 2. he was a proud neonazi (and didn't realize we were Jews and Cubans); 3. he could chug a pitcher of Gansett in a few seconds. He even sold one of us some adderall.
I saw the same man a few weeks later at that bar, cheerfully asking a group of Indian grad students shooting pool where they were from, with some level of suggestion they should be sure to return when they finished their degrees.
We weren't going to be friends, and I'm sure he's found his way back to jail by now (and that he deserved it), but it was a night I'll not forget soon. None of that happens at Applebees.
Many years ago, my friends and I had a night in our favorite dive. That bar draws college kids, Brazilian immigrants, alcoholic townies, yuppies, punks - everyone. It was packed: there was nowhere to sit and hardly anywhere to stand. When we started pushing through to the open space in back, a literal giant of a man who had a booth to himself invited us to sit with him because he liked my tattoos. As the night wore on we discovered 1. the giant man had a peg leg; 2. he was a proud neonazi (and didn't realize we were Jews and Cubans); 3. he could chug a pitcher of Gansett in a few seconds. He even sold one of us some adderall.
I saw the same man a few weeks later at that bar, cheerfully asking a group of Indian grad students shooting pool where they were from, with some level of suggestion they should be sure to return when they finished their degrees.
We weren't going to be friends, and I'm sure he's found his way back to jail by now (and that he deserved it), but it was a night I'll not forget soon. None of that happens at Applebees.
Gansett
Ahhh, now I miss New England. They don't distribute Gannies in TX.
Ahhh, now I miss New England. They don't distribute Gannies in TX.
Yea but you guys have LoneStar which is pretty similar.
ODG LoneStar. Smells like skunk when it's fresh brewed and it goes downhill from there.
There is "dive bar life" after the homogenization. Working in Tokyo and Beijing, the anonymous corporate martini bars with no suits in sight have become the new dive bars. At different times of day, almost on shifts with how precise the change over occurs, the same bar will be filled for a half hour as a demographic's time shift transitions. At one point, it's female office staff, then it's delivery services on break, then it's the finance types on break, then the house wives meet socially, then the college kids waking or lunch breaking. Through these transitions there will be 2-3 people nursing their seats, holding them the entire day. I've noticed this type of rotating clientele in Spain too.
Your comment reminded me of an experience from many years ago at a dive bar. A friend and I were speaking to an older African-American gentleman. His breadth of knowledge was something to behold. AND he spoke five languages fluently. Total mind blow.
> Sports fans and enthusiasts are beyond my bar skills
I'll heartily second that! I'd rather plop down next to a guy who can't stop talking about his favorite video game. At least they're sure to be talking about something they actually do and there is none of that ridiculous "we" talk.
And they aren't fooled for a moment that it's all just a game they're obsessed with.
I'll heartily second that! I'd rather plop down next to a guy who can't stop talking about his favorite video game. At least they're sure to be talking about something they actually do and there is none of that ridiculous "we" talk.
And they aren't fooled for a moment that it's all just a game they're obsessed with.
Interesting take. I don't talk to most people and most people don't talk to me at a bar. What stuck out for me are the myriad warnings about not being an asshole. What is an asshole in this context?
Imposition is number 1.
You don't talk to people. People assume you don't want to be talked to. Sometimes dive bars are just for seeking oblivion.
Picking fights would be #2.
Getting mad when losing - you've chosen to interact in a friendly way, but getting pissed off when you're wrong, that's just not fair. You lose the fight, you own up to it.
Also, dive bars over serve, almost as a rule, in spite of the post. Getting drunk and hitting on women or men to excess, I dunno. hard to explain. If you're polite, you can get absurdly drunk. Don't inflict your drunken-ness on others.
--edit--
I realize after a moment #1 is confusing, especially for non Americans.
it's always ok to introduce yourself. if you get a grunt in response, it's a lack of interest. in the south, you might get a warm welcome, because that's just hospitable.
There's a bit of reading involved. If people try to engage you in conversation, asking you questions is a good example, you're welcome to participate. A dive is generally older men drinking away their pensions. But it's diverse, lots of ages, genders and income levels. You just sorta have to read the audience. Feel free to stick around for perhaps 5 minutes and listen, but if you're ignored, you're probably not welcome. An American would be loud and pushy and "be an asshole"
Also, dive bars over serve, almost as a rule, in spite of the post. Getting drunk and hitting on women or men to excess, I dunno. hard to explain. If you're polite, you can get absurdly drunk. Don't inflict your drunken-ness on others.
--edit--
I realize after a moment #1 is confusing, especially for non Americans.
it's always ok to introduce yourself. if you get a grunt in response, it's a lack of interest. in the south, you might get a warm welcome, because that's just hospitable.
There's a bit of reading involved. If people try to engage you in conversation, asking you questions is a good example, you're welcome to participate. A dive is generally older men drinking away their pensions. But it's diverse, lots of ages, genders and income levels. You just sorta have to read the audience. Feel free to stick around for perhaps 5 minutes and listen, but if you're ignored, you're probably not welcome. An American would be loud and pushy and "be an asshole"
This is good advice! I like to ask something like "how's your day going?" as a greeting. If you get more than a "good, you?", then this person wants to talk. You've made a friend for the evening.
Anyone else hear Piano Man while reading this comment?
> they're a social space I haven't found replicated anywhere else
Sounds a lot like many pubs.
Sounds a lot like many pubs.
What I feel a lot of people who've not experienced them don't get about your average British pub is that it's basically a communal living room. You're not just there for the pints (although they're very important too).
Fun story, when I was an intern there was a pub just outside the industrial estate where the office was situated. This pub was frequented so regularly by the company that one of the developers actually had access to the till. On hot days we'd walk right past the queue, pull our own pints, pay for them, and be out in the beer garden long before everyone else!
Fun story, when I was an intern there was a pub just outside the industrial estate where the office was situated. This pub was frequented so regularly by the company that one of the developers actually had access to the till. On hot days we'd walk right past the queue, pull our own pints, pay for them, and be out in the beer garden long before everyone else!
Yeah, that's exactly it. (E.g. at my local bar the regulars can just add another tally on the sheet at the bar and grab a beer.) Dive bars / neighborhood bars are just a shared living room with beer.
The catch is that something called a "pub" in most of the US implies it's a bit fancier.
Somewhere you're going for dinner, but not to chat with random folks. That's not necessarily the case in the midwest, but still, something labeled as an "Irish Pub" or "British Pub" here is going to be 1) slightly more upscale and 2) focused more on food.
So what you'd call a pub is a "dive bar" or "neighborhood bar" over here.
Food is typically a potluck or something grilled outside, as having a kitchen would make it a restaurant and result in different inspections/rules/etc. There's probably a potluck anytime there's a big game on TV. You're _highly_ likely to run into your neighbours. There will probably be at least one bar dog or bar cat.
The catch is that something called a "pub" in most of the US implies it's a bit fancier.
Somewhere you're going for dinner, but not to chat with random folks. That's not necessarily the case in the midwest, but still, something labeled as an "Irish Pub" or "British Pub" here is going to be 1) slightly more upscale and 2) focused more on food.
So what you'd call a pub is a "dive bar" or "neighborhood bar" over here.
Food is typically a potluck or something grilled outside, as having a kitchen would make it a restaurant and result in different inspections/rules/etc. There's probably a potluck anytime there's a big game on TV. You're _highly_ likely to run into your neighbours. There will probably be at least one bar dog or bar cat.
Which is doubly odd, since in the UK & Ireland traditional pubs are noticeably not focused on food. Although gastropubs and the like are starting to become more common.
In the UK many pubs struggle to make enough money without food.
that may be the case.
in the U.S. (I'm from the U.S. it's stratified by age and income and race, by default. Dive bars, amazingly, are not) I've had a hard time finding a casual space that didn't involve alcohol, where you can just sorta hang out and complain about stuff.
dive bars are perfect for this. great conversation with folks from all kinds of backgrounds. coffee shops don't really cut it. there aren't that many spots to just, chat.
dive bars are perfect for this. great conversation with folks from all kinds of backgrounds. coffee shops don't really cut it. there aren't that many spots to just, chat.
A dive bar is literally a pub.
You get one or more bars in a pub, but a bar is not a pub.
Oh my. We can all tell the parent poster is trying to connect an idea from English to American. I appreciate that you're fussy and pedantic, because I work with computers.
your observation is crisp in English, but irrelevant in American. apologies for the downvotes. I didn't do it, but I understand the root. And hopefully you do too, after my snide commentary.
In American English “bar” is the name of the establishment, not just the piece of furniture inside.
Likewise a jigsaw is not a puzzle; it's a type of saw. But we'll cut ;-) you some slack for the poor terminology if you'll let us name a drinking establishment for a piece of furniture.
As a non-American outsider, one thing I find so strange when visiting the States is the, how shall I say, "attitude" of bartenders. Everything else is extremely customer focused, but for some reason ordering a beer at a bar feels like having to play a constant game of favorites.
This hasn't happened to me anywhere else. And I try to be polite and tip well in the US.
This hasn't happened to me anywhere else. And I try to be polite and tip well in the US.
I used to work in a coffee shop in a touristy town, in the great white north. There was a theme - milk the tourists but butter the locals. That guy that comes in for the same simple drink at the same time every morning, is worth more than someone who buys all the foof and never comes back. Plus he's going to keep us going all winter, and you're not.
So there is a game of favourites - that local is near-on a thousand bucks a year. Plus tips. So if I get the chance to start his drink the moment I see him out the window, I'll take it. You might wait an extra 30 seconds. The change he drops in the jar will probably add up to a car payment over a year.
I can easily imagine bars are a similar situation but more so. The regulars are probably spending a little more than $20 a week.
So there is a game of favourites - that local is near-on a thousand bucks a year. Plus tips. So if I get the chance to start his drink the moment I see him out the window, I'll take it. You might wait an extra 30 seconds. The change he drops in the jar will probably add up to a car payment over a year.
I can easily imagine bars are a similar situation but more so. The regulars are probably spending a little more than $20 a week.
> That guy that comes in for the same simple drink at the same time every morning, is worth more than someone who buys all the foof and never comes back.
I'm this guy. The interaction with a coffee shop changes once they start treating you as a regular. The arrangement is somehow more mutually beneficial than the simple exchange of money for goods. Sadly, I find fewer and fewer shops have this attitude. In my current city, I notice the hot shops have a wild rotation of baristas such that by the time they remember my order (it's a black americano, not rocket science) they've moved on.
Small, family owned-and-operated shops are by far a better experience than any chain, even of their coffee isn't quite as good as a Blue Bottle or a Philz.
I'm this guy. The interaction with a coffee shop changes once they start treating you as a regular. The arrangement is somehow more mutually beneficial than the simple exchange of money for goods. Sadly, I find fewer and fewer shops have this attitude. In my current city, I notice the hot shops have a wild rotation of baristas such that by the time they remember my order (it's a black americano, not rocket science) they've moved on.
Small, family owned-and-operated shops are by far a better experience than any chain, even of their coffee isn't quite as good as a Blue Bottle or a Philz.
I wonder if it's a timing or location thing. A neighborhood bar on a rainy Wednesday afternoon in a smallish city is going to be really different from a large bar in a big city on Friday/ Saturday night. I'm wondering, given you were visiting the states, if you'd be more likely to be in the latter.
I think it's interesting how the meaning of "dive bar" has changed in the couple of decades I've been legally allowed in them. When I was in college, a dive bar was a place that you were taking your chances visiting and half the point was the frisson of "danger" to go along with shitty beer. Now it seems to often mean a good place you call a "dive bar" because you don't want it getting popular.
I miss our local in our town. It got popular, moved across the street to a larger building and started to be a full restaurant and then, fairly unsurprisingly, died because they weren't ready to be a different thing. Some of it was probably managing a larger staff, but I think a lot of it is dealing with the "General Public". A good dive bar is/ can be like an extended family and regulars sense the pace of the place and adjust accordingly, whether it's too let the bartender(s) grab a breath when it's busy or to be patient with the new bartender while they learn the ropes or usher a fellow regular out on a day they've lost the plot. To abuse an overused cliche of our times, there are no Karens in dive bars. Not for more than a minute or two anyway, because the entire place will let them know exactly what the world thinks of them in a way McDonalds' patrons will not.
I think it's interesting how the meaning of "dive bar" has changed in the couple of decades I've been legally allowed in them. When I was in college, a dive bar was a place that you were taking your chances visiting and half the point was the frisson of "danger" to go along with shitty beer. Now it seems to often mean a good place you call a "dive bar" because you don't want it getting popular.
I miss our local in our town. It got popular, moved across the street to a larger building and started to be a full restaurant and then, fairly unsurprisingly, died because they weren't ready to be a different thing. Some of it was probably managing a larger staff, but I think a lot of it is dealing with the "General Public". A good dive bar is/ can be like an extended family and regulars sense the pace of the place and adjust accordingly, whether it's too let the bartender(s) grab a breath when it's busy or to be patient with the new bartender while they learn the ropes or usher a fellow regular out on a day they've lost the plot. To abuse an overused cliche of our times, there are no Karens in dive bars. Not for more than a minute or two anyway, because the entire place will let them know exactly what the world thinks of them in a way McDonalds' patrons will not.
It's because the physical bar is small and crowded because it serves all the people in the room, not just the people sitting at the bar. At table service, the server can circulate across tables checking on people for orders.
It's not like small crowded bars are an exclusively American thing you know..
It's because of tipping culture. I've had bartenders ignore me because I didn't tip after getting drinks. I know it's a total douche move but when doing a pub crawl I don't always know if I'm sticking around and I really don't wanna break out the credit card and make a commitment.
I agree. This is the case for busy bars and especially the clubs. It is like being an arsehole is part of a job requirement for the bartenders.
The fact is that in the US people tend to congregate around the same time (happy hour or at night)in bars/clubs and the bartenders get overwhelmed and don’t care much about service. It is all about volume and who looks like is going to tip well.
At quiet times they tend to be chill and friendly though.
It is a pure supply and demand thing (of their services)
The fact is that in the US people tend to congregate around the same time (happy hour or at night)in bars/clubs and the bartenders get overwhelmed and don’t care much about service. It is all about volume and who looks like is going to tip well.
At quiet times they tend to be chill and friendly though.
It is a pure supply and demand thing (of their services)
This was a great read. I do some bartending in a very modern bar in Germany and it is sooo different :)
I also see the point where he says that he wants his regulars to come in, but also doesn't want them to come in for their own good. Pretty hard to serve these people so your bar makes money, knowing that it doesn't do them well.
I also see the point where he says that he wants his regulars to come in, but also doesn't want them to come in for their own good. Pretty hard to serve these people so your bar makes money, knowing that it doesn't do them well.
Not a bartender, but i do wonder if tipping the bartender is more of an American thing.
Will definitely think about tipping the next time I'm at a bar.
Will definitely think about tipping the next time I'm at a bar.
I quit tech about a year ago, sailed up the inside passage to SE Alaska in a little 30' sailboat, and ended up working at a dive bar similar to what this author describes for 8 months over the winter.
I met a ton of incredible people, and had a lot of fun, but also burned out. Never having bartended before, there were some surprises:
- No food in most of the bars in town, other than bags of chips. This made it hard to slow people down.
- No inventory control. Bottles weren't weighed or measured in any way. Any employee could, in theory, steal alcohol with absolutely no way for the bar to know (there were no cameras in the building, either). As a consequence, bartenders would pour quite heavy at times, especially for the regular day-drinking crowd (with tacit approval from the owner).
There is a huge dynamic where the money is so good (my take-home was normally in the range of 40-50/hour during the slow season for my Friday night shift), and most bartenders that I met didn't have any other options to earn that kind of money, so would keep bartending despite the burnout. The golden handcuffs are real.
I met a ton of incredible people, and had a lot of fun, but also burned out. Never having bartended before, there were some surprises:
- No food in most of the bars in town, other than bags of chips. This made it hard to slow people down.
- No inventory control. Bottles weren't weighed or measured in any way. Any employee could, in theory, steal alcohol with absolutely no way for the bar to know (there were no cameras in the building, either). As a consequence, bartenders would pour quite heavy at times, especially for the regular day-drinking crowd (with tacit approval from the owner).
There is a huge dynamic where the money is so good (my take-home was normally in the range of 40-50/hour during the slow season for my Friday night shift), and most bartenders that I met didn't have any other options to earn that kind of money, so would keep bartending despite the burnout. The golden handcuffs are real.
I stopped drinking about a year and a half ago. One thing I really miss is being in a bar and having conversations with interesting, relaxed strangers with things to say.
If you’re abstaining from alcohol because you’re addicted to it, it can be very hard to find that kind of social connection elsewhere. I think this is a problem in our society (at least in the United Kingdom): a lack of places to be sober and socialise warmly with strangers
If you’re abstaining from alcohol because you’re addicted to it, it can be very hard to find that kind of social connection elsewhere. I think this is a problem in our society (at least in the United Kingdom): a lack of places to be sober and socialise warmly with strangers
This was a fun read.
> However, I do judge you by your drink order. We all do. I give all respect to the patriots that drink their liquor with no mixer. Whiskey on the rocks- not all heroes wear capes. I don't trust rum drinkers, they don't like booze. A good buzz should be earned, not delivered in a sugar slurry.
If Socrates worked in a dive bar, I’m sure he’d agree.
> However, I do judge you by your drink order. We all do. I give all respect to the patriots that drink their liquor with no mixer. Whiskey on the rocks- not all heroes wear capes. I don't trust rum drinkers, they don't like booze. A good buzz should be earned, not delivered in a sugar slurry.
If Socrates worked in a dive bar, I’m sure he’d agree.
Yeah I firmly believe you are free to enjoy whatever alcohol you like, the way you prefer to drink it without worrying about getting made fun of. That said, if someone going to offer opinions like this I think they can expect a bit of push back so I don't feel too bad about writing the below :)
I imagine if someone seriously believes whiskey on the rocks is a drink for grizzled hard-men and that rum is for fancy lads[0] who can't handle alcohol then they're not particularly well versed with spirits, and are just repeating something they heard and thought sounded cool. Whiskey on the rocks is usually very easy going - and if you had something like sweeter like Eagle Rare, or delicate like Redbreast that's possibly one of lightest spirit-without-mixer drinks you can get. Then again, they might have just been joking.
[0] = I've used male-centric terms here because I cannot think of more suitable gender neutral ones, but I hope the intent is well understood :)
I imagine if someone seriously believes whiskey on the rocks is a drink for grizzled hard-men and that rum is for fancy lads[0] who can't handle alcohol then they're not particularly well versed with spirits, and are just repeating something they heard and thought sounded cool. Whiskey on the rocks is usually very easy going - and if you had something like sweeter like Eagle Rare, or delicate like Redbreast that's possibly one of lightest spirit-without-mixer drinks you can get. Then again, they might have just been joking.
[0] = I've used male-centric terms here because I cannot think of more suitable gender neutral ones, but I hope the intent is well understood :)
Ice makes the whisky lose its taste, so that whole line is nonsensical to me. He thinks people who don't like the taste of whisky are heroes without capes?
I dunno, while ice definitely takes a lot out of a whisky it leaves something there and is still IMO a totally acceptable way to drink it (particularly if it's a hot day or if it's cask strength). But I agree it's an odd selection for the "hero" drink :)
yea, whiskey neat would be the superman drink
Sounds like they've never tasted a good-quality rum. Havana Club 7 is a decent quality, middle-of-the-road rum for the price.
To be honest the entry level Appleton (just called "Appleton Signature" iirc?) would be a reasonably well-priced intro to the world of funky Jamaican rum and IMO would be a better way to show that rum isn't just about sweetness. I'm trying to think what the author had which would have lead him to this conclusion. Tbh if they'd only tried the darker "British" ones - like Pussers - might explain it? Pussers blue in particular has a caramelized demerara sugar taste that for me really needs to be mixed so that it's not overpowering.
All the mainstream stuff is extremely artificial tasting and gross. Spiced is bad too. Bacardi, Kraken, Captain Morgan, etc.
Havana Club, Appleton, Mount Gay are all fine. The best intro for sipping neat for most folks is probably Ron Diplomatico, it's on the sweeter side.
There is much, much greater breadth and depth to rums than whiskeys and scotches.
Havana Club, Appleton, Mount Gay are all fine. The best intro for sipping neat for most folks is probably Ron Diplomatico, it's on the sweeter side.
There is much, much greater breadth and depth to rums than whiskeys and scotches.
Given the description of the bar's demographic, I'm pretty sure "rum" translates to cheap bulk Captain Morgan and Bacardi.
As someone who never liked the taste of whiskey, I'm glad that there is Rum or even Vodka.
To me a Dark'n'Stormy is a great drink, in part due to imagining the pirates of the old time sailing on the high seas with nothing else but their wits and rum.
To me a Dark'n'Stormy is a great drink, in part due to imagining the pirates of the old time sailing on the high seas with nothing else but their wits and rum.
Rum is about mixology-is-fun, and about making a strong drink that showcases ingredients and doesn't taste strong. But yeah, aged scotch straight up.
What an awful, prohibition-warped system.
Wait til you hear about State Stores. The day after Prohibition, our state passed a law to explicitly make it as expensive and inconvenient as possible to obtain alcohol. Plus there's always a kickback somewhere: so they invented a system where the State would do the selling of liquor, bars could sell one six pack, and beer wholesalers could sell only cases. The liquor system persists, with its original mandate, having no legal competition. The beer system is loosening slightly: until very recently, it was literally impossible to buy, say three six packs, anywhere.
I moved from a western state where hard liquor is sold openly in the grocery stores, to an east-coast state with state-run liquor stores that have a monopoly on hard liquor. The east-coast state-run store prices are two-thirds of the western grocery store prices. Part of this is that the western state, despite having open sales, also imposed very high taxes, while the eastern state that restricts sales has low taxes.
In the end, the eastern state sold me more liquor at lower prices until I realized that I was drinking too much and quit. Everyone I knew back west drank; few do out east.
In the end, the eastern state sold me more liquor at lower prices until I realized that I was drinking too much and quit. Everyone I knew back west drank; few do out east.
I'm a new Colorado resident; I was quite surprised when I saw a full bar at many coffee shops. Asking what's up with the hard liquor, they said it was for shots in ones' coffee, want one? Wow! Growing up in Iowa, with State Liquor stores, and then school in Massachusetts where the puritan attitude still prevents liquor sales on Sunday, and then California where pot is preferred over booze... Colorado has shots in one's coffee from franchised coffee shops, what a world.
To be clear, what started with a Puritan attitude in New England is only still in place because of lobbying from the liquor stores. No one really wants Blue Laws anymore except those who profit from them.
What state do you live in? In my state we have to put up bilboards that its not okay to let teens drink at a parent hosted party. We can buy booze of any kind on any day, purchases as late as 9, and generally if youre a regular at a bar, drinks after last call. Cops really do not care. If you havent figured it our by now its Wisconsin. The state where teetotalers are less trusted than atheists.
I'd imagine Pennsylvania. They have some really weird alcohol laws and all liquor stores are state owned.
I used to live there and the only place to buy 6 packs was at a restaurant that also served food. They've since loosened up the beer laws, allowing grocery stores and convenience stores to sell beer as long as they have fresh food available and tables for dining.
I used to live there and the only place to buy 6 packs was at a restaurant that also served food. They've since loosened up the beer laws, allowing grocery stores and convenience stores to sell beer as long as they have fresh food available and tables for dining.
PA? I used to have to carry the 2 6 packs to my car, and go back in for 2 more on Sundays. Oh the good old days. I am down in South Carolina now, and from what I heard, until recently they only sold liquor in bars in the little airplane bottles.
Hehe... I'll just say I got to drinking age in Utah in 90's and leave it there :-).
I especially dislike the age requirement of 21 instead of 18 that result in being asked my ID when I'm in my 30's because it's very hard to differentiate between adults (in contrast someone under 18 is easy to spot, so there is way less ambiguity and ID asking, you really have to look like a kid to be asked).
I used to frequent a dive bar that was a converted auto shop. It was owned by around 15 friends, just a big co-ownership deal. One of the bartenders, who I really did love, had one main weakness... he'd give free drinks out, especially to attractive ladies. One time, one of the fifteen co-owners saw him at it and fired him on the spot. I liked the new bartender but they didn't have the same charm and personality, and they were much less good at trivia.
Capital Hill, Seattle?
[deleted]
What kind of forum is this? Super cool perspective
In a big nutshell:
There was a blog written by Scott Alexander called 'Slate Star Codex', which was read by a lot of big tech entrepreneurs. Last year the New York Times wrote a piece on it, and told him they would reveal his name.
Scott took issue with being doxxed (too much to unpack in this, but caused a bit of a stir including here in hackernews) and took down the blog in protest. The blog had regular open threads for discussion, with some quite active regulars in there. datasecretslox was created for some of those to keep that space for discussion.
Lately Scott moved to substack and writes at AstralCodexTen.
There was a blog written by Scott Alexander called 'Slate Star Codex', which was read by a lot of big tech entrepreneurs. Last year the New York Times wrote a piece on it, and told him they would reveal his name.
Scott took issue with being doxxed (too much to unpack in this, but caused a bit of a stir including here in hackernews) and took down the blog in protest. The blog had regular open threads for discussion, with some quite active regulars in there. datasecretslox was created for some of those to keep that space for discussion.
Lately Scott moved to substack and writes at AstralCodexTen.
Looking at the home page it's a nice small forum, reminds me of 'back when' before the big social networks took over. I've been active on and running them for close to 20 years now.
But the activity of that one also wanes and waxes, and the community is mostly active on our Discord channel now. But, I and the other 'regulars' have changed too, we don't have the mental energy, time, arsedness and powers of concentration anymore to read and write multi paragraph essays in threads spanning the ages.
Thankfully there's a lot less drama and crazies as well. We've seen some shit.
But the activity of that one also wanes and waxes, and the community is mostly active on our Discord channel now. But, I and the other 'regulars' have changed too, we don't have the mental energy, time, arsedness and powers of concentration anymore to read and write multi paragraph essays in threads spanning the ages.
Thankfully there's a lot less drama and crazies as well. We've seen some shit.
That small forum feel was what I appreciated. I thought they all disappeared by now, so it surprised me that the this post was added recently.
Its name is an anagram of Scott Alexander, Slate Star Codex, and Astral Codex Ten, so it is probably a forum for Scott's disciples.
> Its name is an anagram of Scott Alexander, Slate Star Codex, and Astral Codex Ten
That would be difficult, since those three phrases are not anagrams of each other.
Where is the 'n' in 'data secrets lox'?
That would be difficult, since those three phrases are not anagrams of each other.
Where is the 'n' in 'data secrets lox'?
It's an anagram of "Slate Star Codex" but not of the others.
It's the forum that frequent commenters on Slate Star Codex set up to chat while Slate Star Codex was on its NYT-induced hiatus. It seems to have developed a life of its own and is still in use even now that Slate Star Codex is back as Astral Codex Ten.
If anyone wants to visit a virtual dive bar, take a look at https://midnight.pub
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> Short aside: this is why a bartender can kick you out of the bar for any reason. That reason is that you were drunk.
I never understood this.
You serve someone until they're too drunk to deal with and kick them to the street where they'll likely get arrested for drunk and disorderly conduct.
Why not give them some water and let them wait it out? OP said himself 95% of people understand and only 5% get a little rowdy after they've been cut off. The 95% should at least be given a hour and some water, not kicked out.
I never understood this.
You serve someone until they're too drunk to deal with and kick them to the street where they'll likely get arrested for drunk and disorderly conduct.
Why not give them some water and let them wait it out? OP said himself 95% of people understand and only 5% get a little rowdy after they've been cut off. The 95% should at least be given a hour and some water, not kicked out.
Probably because they're too drunk, vomiting, disorderly conduct, yelling, arguing. I doubt he'd throw someone out who is quietly getting the spins in a booth.
they are adults - why does someone else have to protect them from the consequences of their own choices?
Even if they are adults, they might be inexperienced in drinking. It is very easy to slip up and have a couple of drinks too many if you haven't experienced it before. I think bartenders should stop serving at the point where they might harm themselves.
I think they try to, but its not like they know patron A is a super lightweight and patron B has no liver
A refreshing approach comes from a bartender's perspective; it seems quite hard as he has a lot of responsibilities and thinks that the only help available is a backup phone call from cops
All of my training is focused around persuading a machine to do what I want. I get pedantic. I think this is rooted in the computer not doing what I want all day, and me, little by little finding the correct path.
Lawyers and combat veterans are the absolute best to interact with. Lawyers will give you 6000 reasons why that blue car is actually red. Sometimes they get lucky, and strike upon a workable solution. Combat veterans believe what they believe for a reason, someone might die. They've really _really_ thought it through.
Lawyers and combat veterans don't get mad. They really want to either win or communicate the point, respectively- unless you're a complete asshole, don't do that. Being an asshole will get you kicked out, or your ass kicked. Drunken dive bar patrons genuinely want to help improve your understanding of the world. They're bored. They're literally killing time. Grad students and post docs are kinda shitty. I enjoy hearing people be passionate about things, but they have a zealotry that can be hard to take. there's a deep commitment there that gives zero space for beliefs that disagree with their own, especially when drunk. But you can learn a lot of high level perspective.
Sports fans and enthusiasts are beyond my bar skills. They require an encyclopedic knowledge of whatever they're into. it's hard (for me) to keep a conversation rolling. Machinists are pretty cool, they've become assembly programmers worried about crashing heads. I get of easy, I just rerun my program. They trashed a 5k piece of steel, and possibly damaged a very expensive machine.
There are lots of folks in dive bars. Most of them are willing to shoot the breeze. It can be a very mind expanding experience.
On the other hand, at a dive bar, you're probably interacting with the alcoholic version of X. That also applies to you. You'll find people that are more open and willing to talk and argue about whatever in a consequence free (unless you're an asshole) environment. But you also need to think hard about your level of consumption. It's probably not great.
Dive bars are a funny thing. they're a social space I haven't found replicated anywhere else.