I won over $55M in the lottery, but didn’t tell my friends or family(marketwatch.com)
marketwatch.com
I won over $55M in the lottery, but didn’t tell my friends or family
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i-won-over-55-million-in-the-california-lottery-but-didnt-tell-my-friends-or-family-did-i-do-the-right-thing-11625001363
261 comments
I don't think you need to win the lottery to be in this situation. Imagine having a cushy job in a FAANG company, where your base salary is probably more than what your parents make combined. It is in my case.
I made the mistake of telling them (roughly) what I earn and it definitely has changed the way they interact with me. I get remarks about my 'wealth' and that I can easily drop $10K on something frivolous. I get other remarks that compare their hard job to my 'easy' job that has catering and long lunch breaks. No one asks how my mental state is. No one asks whether I take my work home with me at the end of the day. No one asks how many hours I put in. All they see is a family member that will drop a ton of cash on a nice vacation or a larger house.
Word of advice: don't tell your family how much you make either.
I made the mistake of telling them (roughly) what I earn and it definitely has changed the way they interact with me. I get remarks about my 'wealth' and that I can easily drop $10K on something frivolous. I get other remarks that compare their hard job to my 'easy' job that has catering and long lunch breaks. No one asks how my mental state is. No one asks whether I take my work home with me at the end of the day. No one asks how many hours I put in. All they see is a family member that will drop a ton of cash on a nice vacation or a larger house.
Word of advice: don't tell your family how much you make either.
Meh. I have $1.5mm by 30. Make $400k/yr.
Parents at their peak earned maybe $60k together. Most of life they earned less and our house we got when growing up was only $120k. (They didn’t have a house until they were in their 40’s btw)
They have no envy. They still pay for dinner if I visit. You know why? Cause they know how hard I worked for it - they saw how many years I spent grinding. They’re proud more than envious by a large margin. They’ll brag to their peer group while still conveying that it wasn’t them that made it happen.
I think if you worked hard for it. I think if it’s apparent how much effort went in and that you’re not a person who is callous to others then people will treat you with respect.
This is one area of my life that does differ from some. I’m very upfront with how much I’ve struggled to get where I am. Extremely upfront. No one has a single ounce of envy for my life. I’ve professed many times that if I end up being a billionaire - I’d never relive my life even knowing I’d be a billionaire later because no amount of money will make up for the pain, suffering, and agony that I had to endure. Even now, it’s not like things are fantastic. I still don’t have what I want because what I want requires 10x what I have for SFBA. If I moved to BFE then it’d be no problem but then I wouldn’t have a job or a hope of a social life.
Parents at their peak earned maybe $60k together. Most of life they earned less and our house we got when growing up was only $120k. (They didn’t have a house until they were in their 40’s btw)
They have no envy. They still pay for dinner if I visit. You know why? Cause they know how hard I worked for it - they saw how many years I spent grinding. They’re proud more than envious by a large margin. They’ll brag to their peer group while still conveying that it wasn’t them that made it happen.
I think if you worked hard for it. I think if it’s apparent how much effort went in and that you’re not a person who is callous to others then people will treat you with respect.
This is one area of my life that does differ from some. I’m very upfront with how much I’ve struggled to get where I am. Extremely upfront. No one has a single ounce of envy for my life. I’ve professed many times that if I end up being a billionaire - I’d never relive my life even knowing I’d be a billionaire later because no amount of money will make up for the pain, suffering, and agony that I had to endure. Even now, it’s not like things are fantastic. I still don’t have what I want because what I want requires 10x what I have for SFBA. If I moved to BFE then it’d be no problem but then I wouldn’t have a job or a hope of a social life.
> Word of advice: don't tell your family how much you make either.
YMMV. I don't have any immediate family members who are at risk for monetary issues (luckily) and I have not had any issues with them knowing how much I earn. I'm also lucky that my family has been taught the value of a dollar since I was little. Not everyone has that advantage so I can definitely see why the default advice should be "don't tell them".
My dad's sisters and some cousins on the other hand...ya...they don't need to know.
YMMV. I don't have any immediate family members who are at risk for monetary issues (luckily) and I have not had any issues with them knowing how much I earn. I'm also lucky that my family has been taught the value of a dollar since I was little. Not everyone has that advantage so I can definitely see why the default advice should be "don't tell them".
My dad's sisters and some cousins on the other hand...ya...they don't need to know.
Yeah I told my parents when I started making six figures and the only thing that changed was now my dad doesn’t pay for all my food when I’m visiting.
Before my father passed he still grumbled about me buying a meal and he was retired!
My parents will still try to pay for me sometimes, but my mom has venmo now so I can at least fire her whatever my costs were.
For all the weird shit I put up with in my family, at least money doesn't really come up as an issue in that sense.
For all the weird shit I put up with in my family, at least money doesn't really come up as an issue in that sense.
Which, admittedly, is a real loss.
> Word of advice: don't tell your family how much you make either.
Your advice is cynical and unhelpful.
I have a healthy relationship with my family where talking about wealth, money, and unexpected windfalls is not a problem. Or, conversely, talking about death, disease, unemployment, or breakups. Of course, a healthy non-toxic relationship needs years of hard work and maintenance.
The kind of work most people don't want to put in.
Your advice is cynical and unhelpful.
I have a healthy relationship with my family where talking about wealth, money, and unexpected windfalls is not a problem. Or, conversely, talking about death, disease, unemployment, or breakups. Of course, a healthy non-toxic relationship needs years of hard work and maintenance.
The kind of work most people don't want to put in.
> Of course, a healthy non-toxic relationship needs years of hard work and maintenance.
By all parties involved.
You only have control over what you put in, but if the other side isn't interested in playing by the same rules there's often nothing you can do.
I also have a good relationship with my family, but I didn't realize how good I had it until I went to college and met students who were on bad terms with their families, weren't on speaking terms, or were completely estranged. It shocked me at the time, but this is the reality for a lot of people.
By all parties involved.
You only have control over what you put in, but if the other side isn't interested in playing by the same rules there's often nothing you can do.
I also have a good relationship with my family, but I didn't realize how good I had it until I went to college and met students who were on bad terms with their families, weren't on speaking terms, or were completely estranged. It shocked me at the time, but this is the reality for a lot of people.
No matter how much work you put in, you can’t choose your parents. Or your in-laws.
people are fast to judge based on what they see on the surface, most are superficial, very few have an interest in diving into the details. too bad when family is in the first category. hope you're doing alright
What you describe is true of many successes I find. Lots of people look at it as if you got some unfair or lucky break. Maybe that is true for the lottery, but for things like good grades, good job, wealth, or even access to leisure time (for example having time to exercise), many get defensive instead of being happy for the success. I've done it to, to some extent it's human nature, but it's something to try and avoid.
I disagree. Dropped out of community college, couch surfed late teens to early twenties, worked night stocking at grocery stores, phone support for Wells Fargo, and DSL tech support.
I suffer from ADD and depression(some anxiety). I drink too much too often as self-medication.
Yet somehow I'm grossing just over 300k this year not working for a FAANG company. It's incredibly easy for me to get a job and offers and has been for nearly a decade. I've received multiple offers after passing interviews quite hung over(hey, when your interviewing at a few companies interviews are bound to collide with drinks nights haha).
I consider my self extremely lucky that I'm somehow successful career wise despite myself. And it's a trope that people who are successful monetarily but have a lacking family situation look at those with a great family situation and believe them to be lucky. And vice versa.
Some people are able to quit smoking relatively "easy". Some people are not able to, or need to be exposed to the right method of quitting. Some never get exposed to the right method, and some try everything and still can't quit.
Sometimes I feel like we are all just riding out life experiencing something we have little control over. And what we believe we have control over, we don't actually have control over having that control. This outlook doesn't take away from trying to maximize my personal experience, but it makes me think more than twice before considering the difference between myself and others as "hard working" vs "lazy".
Just because it may be human nature to be jealous of those with success doesn't mean they weren't actually lucky. The best or worst luck anyone will ever get is probably the parents they were born to and the genes they inherited from them..
I suffer from ADD and depression(some anxiety). I drink too much too often as self-medication.
Yet somehow I'm grossing just over 300k this year not working for a FAANG company. It's incredibly easy for me to get a job and offers and has been for nearly a decade. I've received multiple offers after passing interviews quite hung over(hey, when your interviewing at a few companies interviews are bound to collide with drinks nights haha).
I consider my self extremely lucky that I'm somehow successful career wise despite myself. And it's a trope that people who are successful monetarily but have a lacking family situation look at those with a great family situation and believe them to be lucky. And vice versa.
Some people are able to quit smoking relatively "easy". Some people are not able to, or need to be exposed to the right method of quitting. Some never get exposed to the right method, and some try everything and still can't quit.
Sometimes I feel like we are all just riding out life experiencing something we have little control over. And what we believe we have control over, we don't actually have control over having that control. This outlook doesn't take away from trying to maximize my personal experience, but it makes me think more than twice before considering the difference between myself and others as "hard working" vs "lazy".
Just because it may be human nature to be jealous of those with success doesn't mean they weren't actually lucky. The best or worst luck anyone will ever get is probably the parents they were born to and the genes they inherited from them..
Totally agree! I make far more than my harder working, smarter friends outside of tech.
People with greater wealth don’t necessarily “deserve” it, whatever that means.
People with greater wealth don’t necessarily “deserve” it, whatever that means.
Ya, if you don't acknowledge the luck involved in things like getting that good job, it can offen imply everyone else is just lazy and it's hard to be congratulatory when most people just don't have the circumstances work out for them.
It could come down to your first job working out super well, paying well, and maybe you also happen to not find it extremely depressing. It helps if you're parents are still together and didn't have their own mental health issues, or less likely it helps of your family is so screwed that you had no other option than sacrificing yourself fully for money. That carries you forward. If however anything happened to impair that, you could be screwed.
It could come down to your first job working out super well, paying well, and maybe you also happen to not find it extremely depressing. It helps if you're parents are still together and didn't have their own mental health issues, or less likely it helps of your family is so screwed that you had no other option than sacrificing yourself fully for money. That carries you forward. If however anything happened to impair that, you could be screwed.
This is very cynical. If you can't even tell your family how much you make what's the point in having a family? What is a family for in your opinion then?
Maybe you feel you can trust everyone in your family, but this is far from universal. Many, _many_ people have family members who are self-entitled moochers who think that everything bad that has happened to them was because of other people instead of a lifetime of own poor choices. When they find out that someone close to them has come into some money, they feel (and act) like they "deserve" some of it and will try all manner of tactics to get at it, including pity and made-up stories, all the way up to blackmail, threats, and physical violence. In a word: toxic. Sometimes it's just one family member, sometimes it's the whole family.
If you have none in your family, consider yourself extremely blessed. Most of us are not so lucky.
If you have none in your family, consider yourself extremely blessed. Most of us are not so lucky.
Reminds me of the Filipino maid friends living in the middle east had working for them. The pay included airfare for going home for a few weeks once a year, but somehow she always declined and rather wanted to go on holiday with her employers (and the kids, so not really a holiday for her).
After 3 years they finally found out she actually really wanted to go home and see friends and family again. However she was so scared her family would guilt her into giving them all the money she had earned abroad, and making her dreams of what she would do with it impossible, she could never bring herself to book the ticket.
I have a friend from Croatia that lives in NYC. Does not earn much, especially by NYC standards. He loathes returning to Croatia because everyone thinks since he lives in the USA, he must make a lot of money.
I’ve heard lots of stories like this from folks who married into Filipino families.
The general idea I get is that the money of the extended family is considered accessible (at least to some extent) by the entire pool. This seems especially true for medical expenses, but also seems true for “investments”.
The boundaries seem really unhealthy to me, but I’m not part of that culture, so I don’t know how it really works (esp. for families with wealth disparities).
One “feel good” story I have heard was when a friend of mine flew from the US to the Philippines with a large sum of cash that paid for a life-saving surgery for grandmother (had to pay in advance).
I’d love to hear other stories.
The general idea I get is that the money of the extended family is considered accessible (at least to some extent) by the entire pool. This seems especially true for medical expenses, but also seems true for “investments”.
The boundaries seem really unhealthy to me, but I’m not part of that culture, so I don’t know how it really works (esp. for families with wealth disparities).
One “feel good” story I have heard was when a friend of mine flew from the US to the Philippines with a large sum of cash that paid for a life-saving surgery for grandmother (had to pay in advance).
I’d love to hear other stories.
You pretty much dotted the i’s and crossed the T’s on this one.
The general idea is too complex for me to give a solid, single piece of advice on how to identify genuine vs not, but what I can tell you is this:
I recently became aware of a very real death of a close Philippine friend’s grandmother and I knew their family couldn’t afford a proper burial. So I requested to talk to the eldest of the family, offered to cover cost (less than the price of a new iPad) with their approval to do so, and for my name to not be included in the justification.
For context - I’ve personally been to the Philippines a few times and seen some of the ups and downs (white American since birth). Never sent that friend or their family anything before nor felt compelled to do this. I’m grateful for what I have in life and for those who have done good toward me, so simply paying it forward.
The general idea is too complex for me to give a solid, single piece of advice on how to identify genuine vs not, but what I can tell you is this:
I recently became aware of a very real death of a close Philippine friend’s grandmother and I knew their family couldn’t afford a proper burial. So I requested to talk to the eldest of the family, offered to cover cost (less than the price of a new iPad) with their approval to do so, and for my name to not be included in the justification.
For context - I’ve personally been to the Philippines a few times and seen some of the ups and downs (white American since birth). Never sent that friend or their family anything before nor felt compelled to do this. I’m grateful for what I have in life and for those who have done good toward me, so simply paying it forward.
A significant chunk of the Philippine economy is fueled by remittances from overseas workers (in absolute amount, it's comparable to Mexico and behind only India and China). So it is pretty common for people to "share".
On the other hand, there are people like my father, who worked until he died because he didn't want to rely on his kids for support. He even got mad at me when I got his bank account number from my mom, and did a test wire transfer of $1000.
On the other hand, there are people like my father, who worked until he died because he didn't want to rely on his kids for support. He even got mad at me when I got his bank account number from my mom, and did a test wire transfer of $1000.
It probably depends where you are in life, how much money, your relationship to family, how comfortable they are, etc. Certainly seemed like the right call in this case.
On the other hand, if your family is comfortable, this happens to you when you're 35 and want to retire and travel the world at least for a while, it's probably hard to deny that you had some sort of real financial windfall.
On the other hand, if your family is comfortable, this happens to you when you're 35 and want to retire and travel the world at least for a while, it's probably hard to deny that you had some sort of real financial windfall.
Say you became a consultant.
In technology or really professional fields more broadly, saying you're a consultant is probably the best way to obfuscate a lot of travel, sort of vague job duties, etc. especially with friends and family who never really understood what you were paid for anyway.
Now, it will presumably be obvious that you now are comfortably well off but, so long as you don't buy that penthouse suite in Manhattan, they don't need to know how well off you are.
Now, it will presumably be obvious that you now are comfortably well off but, so long as you don't buy that penthouse suite in Manhattan, they don't need to know how well off you are.
>In technology or really professional fields more broadly, saying you're a consultant is probably the best way to obfuscate a lot of travel, sort of vague job duties, etc. especially with friends and family who never really understood what you were paid for anyway.
This is also what young women just out of college, typically having played varsity sports, do after setting themselves up as a call girl working for a madam: They say they are working in consulting.
This is also what young women just out of college, typically having played varsity sports, do after setting themselves up as a call girl working for a madam: They say they are working in consulting.
What am I consulting on? My girlfriend wanted to know what the best crème brûlée is in Paris. It took weeks of research and user studies.
"I'm an outside consultant to beach resorts and other interesting places."
I work on globally scalable and extremely complex systems.
Specifically, the ecosystem. I test it for enjoyment purposes.
Specifically, the ecosystem. I test it for enjoyment purposes.
A professional reviewer for a travel guide so prestigious it isn't even published and only has a single customer.
Sure, but you still don’t say anything.
When I was right out of college, I got a contract.
The contract was for 1/3 of the wages a person with that job would get, and zero benefits!
Thing is... for many people in my family it was still the most money they had ever seen, after I told my parents what my wages were, soon the entire family knew, and people started to treat me in weird ways, like making a tons of "jokes" asking money.
The contract was for 1/3 of the wages a person with that job would get, and zero benefits!
Thing is... for many people in my family it was still the most money they had ever seen, after I told my parents what my wages were, soon the entire family knew, and people started to treat me in weird ways, like making a tons of "jokes" asking money.
What if they are struggling with money issues and you want to help them? Or what if they are struggling with money issues in silence and you don't know about it?
Also... what if they find out about it later and you never told them? Wouldn't they think that you are a selfish doosh?
Also... what if they find out about it later and you never told them? Wouldn't they think that you are a selfish doosh?
You just help them without saying you got $55M.
As the GP mentioned, people, even family members will start treating you differently (nicer if you start giving them your money, worse if you don't). That's IMO a valid excuse why you didn't want to tell.
As the GP mentioned, people, even family members will start treating you differently (nicer if you start giving them your money, worse if you don't). That's IMO a valid excuse why you didn't want to tell.
What if their money issues are their own doing (they live way above their means)? If you give them money, you're an enabler.
Not sure why this is getting down voted. Most people who have money problems have them because of their own behaviors. I agree giving money to someone who is bad with money doesn't really help them it only wastes your money.
As long as you aren't giving them money to piss away on drugs or something similar, so what? You would give your family and/or friends an easier and happier life.
Maybe, but be careful. It doesn't have to be drugs. You can cover their food and some of their house payment, because they're broke, but they bought a new boat (or similar expensive item) anyways. Surely, they can't ask their rich relative for too many vacations, right? Or vacation houses?
For someone who keeps their word and is honest about their finances and asks for such-and-such, fine. For those who don't care for paying off the debt they have and always gets more, and you give them money, you're feeding their entitlement, and ultimately making no one happy.
For someone who keeps their word and is honest about their finances and asks for such-and-such, fine. For those who don't care for paying off the debt they have and always gets more, and you give them money, you're feeding their entitlement, and ultimately making no one happy.
What if they're not? It seems like the type of thing that requires individual judgement instead of a flat rule.
You have to have a fairly healthy family dynamic to be able to give or loan a lot of money to each other and not have everything ruined. And chances are that if you had that family dynamic already, you'd be less hesitant revealing your financial status.
> Wouldn't they think that you are a selfish doosh
I never cease to be amazed at how terrified people commonly are of trivial confrontation and worthless opinions.
A life spent placating other people to live by their low value opinions, will be a life very poorly lived. Rather than spending the effort on fretting about their low value opinions, that effort should go into mentally reducing the incorrect value being placed on said opinions.
People twist themselves into grotesque knots living under the unreasonable expectations of others, even living under the fantay projection opinions of those people (thoughts/opinions they don't even know to be the case, just things they fear may be the case), even when they quietly don't care about the person/s.
The sister in this story for example, she can go right fuck off. This guy wins $55m and is terrified of his own shadow, can't even deal with the sister (who he doesn't like at all, has zero interest in speaking to) he's afraid will demand that he donate half his wealth to her church. It's unbelievable behavior.
I never cease to be amazed at how terrified people commonly are of trivial confrontation and worthless opinions.
A life spent placating other people to live by their low value opinions, will be a life very poorly lived. Rather than spending the effort on fretting about their low value opinions, that effort should go into mentally reducing the incorrect value being placed on said opinions.
People twist themselves into grotesque knots living under the unreasonable expectations of others, even living under the fantay projection opinions of those people (thoughts/opinions they don't even know to be the case, just things they fear may be the case), even when they quietly don't care about the person/s.
The sister in this story for example, she can go right fuck off. This guy wins $55m and is terrified of his own shadow, can't even deal with the sister (who he doesn't like at all, has zero interest in speaking to) he's afraid will demand that he donate half his wealth to her church. It's unbelievable behavior.
> I never cease to be amazed at how terrified people commonly are of trivial confrontation and worthless opinions.
So... you don't care if your family never talks to you again? I would.
So... you don't care if your family never talks to you again? I would.
If your family refused to speak to you because you didn't share your "wealth" with them, you would pay them off just so they would speak to you again?
Lying to your family and not telling them that you came into a ton of money would be the thing that could piss them off the most. It would seem like either you are being selfish and want it all to yourself or they will think that you think they are money grubbing moochers.
Also, yea, I could see not sharing some of that wealth with your family could come off as bad as well.
It's not about paying them off. If you love someone, you want to help them and make them happy. Not doing so seems selfish and the opposite of that.
Also, yea, I could see not sharing some of that wealth with your family could come off as bad as well.
It's not about paying them off. If you love someone, you want to help them and make them happy. Not doing so seems selfish and the opposite of that.
Your position seems to be that:
1) If you have wealth, you are obligated to share your wealth with your extended family.
2) If you make a decision to not share your wealth with your extended family, they have a right to be mad at you.
This must be a cultural thing because I can't wrap my head around it. In my culture, money and family relationships are completely separate things. Our family connections are based on staying in touch with each other and spending time with the ones who are worth your time and attention. Money doesn't enter into the relationship at all. In fact, I'm reasonably certain that if I were to offer money anyone in my family, they would be deeply offended.
> If you love someone, you want to help them and make them happy.
This is a fallacy: money does not solve problems and it does not make anyone happy. You'll figure that out on your own eventually, though.
1) If you have wealth, you are obligated to share your wealth with your extended family.
2) If you make a decision to not share your wealth with your extended family, they have a right to be mad at you.
This must be a cultural thing because I can't wrap my head around it. In my culture, money and family relationships are completely separate things. Our family connections are based on staying in touch with each other and spending time with the ones who are worth your time and attention. Money doesn't enter into the relationship at all. In fact, I'm reasonably certain that if I were to offer money anyone in my family, they would be deeply offended.
> If you love someone, you want to help them and make them happy.
This is a fallacy: money does not solve problems and it does not make anyone happy. You'll figure that out on your own eventually, though.
I’ve wondered about this: when someone comes into a windfall and their loved ones see them differently, are they really different or is the person seeing them exactly as they are?
Best to not tell them and let them decide.
Most people don't even understand the notion of a random windfall, financially. It's something you should just put in the bank and literally forget about, unless you have high-interest debt to pay off or the like.
Drawing down on a windfall should be a very serious decision, not something done casually. That money you're spending on pure consumption is not coming back, ever, so only use it for experiences and endeavors that will meaningfully improve the life of yourself or whoever you care about.
Drawing down on a windfall should be a very serious decision, not something done casually. That money you're spending on pure consumption is not coming back, ever, so only use it for experiences and endeavors that will meaningfully improve the life of yourself or whoever you care about.
We didn’t have a lot when I was a kid so I didn’t understand this when I was suddenly making more than my dad. We ran up huge debts and it took a couple years of hard work and heavy discipline to pay it all off, then a couple more to be anywhere where we thought the money should make us feel like.
Those images of rock stars and athletes are fundamentally exploitative. The odds you will continue to make that kind of money going forward are tiny. The odds that you can re-make that kind of money without having to compromise your ideals are virtually nonexistent. Anyone who encourages you to spend it is not your friend.
You were lucky enough to get it the first time, if you blow it there might not be a next time. And I think in many cases the people who struggle their whole lives never learned that, which why they are down instead of OK. Get a little money it goes to steak or AC or a pool, or something else with additional lifetime costs. It would never go into preventative maintenance that actually saves you money later on.
Those images of rock stars and athletes are fundamentally exploitative. The odds you will continue to make that kind of money going forward are tiny. The odds that you can re-make that kind of money without having to compromise your ideals are virtually nonexistent. Anyone who encourages you to spend it is not your friend.
You were lucky enough to get it the first time, if you blow it there might not be a next time. And I think in many cases the people who struggle their whole lives never learned that, which why they are down instead of OK. Get a little money it goes to steak or AC or a pool, or something else with additional lifetime costs. It would never go into preventative maintenance that actually saves you money later on.
/Should/ be yes, but we repeatedly see people who come into a windfall blow it all almost immediately on fancy cars and vacations and end up worse off than when they started. (See: professional athletes.)
I'm doing okay but I worked for what I have. I'm pretty financially savvy compared to the median person and even /I/ can't say with 100% certainty that if I ran into $55 mil somehow that I would be able to save/invest it all responsibly.
I'm doing okay but I worked for what I have. I'm pretty financially savvy compared to the median person and even /I/ can't say with 100% certainty that if I ran into $55 mil somehow that I would be able to save/invest it all responsibly.
Nobody is different. The people around the newly rich person are just acting just as entitled as they always have. They just formerly never pointed that behavior in the direction of that person because they never had a reason to.
The relationship is different. They are seeing a side of them they didn't realize existed.
What was your experience? How did they treat you differently once they found out?
How much is a ton? (ballpark)
And what car did you buy?
I suppose having everyone treat you differently is a downside, but surely having the money is better than not?
And what car did you buy?
I suppose having everyone treat you differently is a downside, but surely having the money is better than not?
What is the point of writing a letter like this to a money advice column? His only question is, "Was I wrong in not telling anyone about my winnings?" Surely by 67 you should understand that wrong is the eye of the beholder. Only you can answer whether you did right or wrong, although I will say that sending a letter to an advice column is a signal that you are not completely satisfied with your decision. Honestly this comes off like a brag -- simply because he is not conveying any information other than his wealth and dislike for his family.
There are a bunch of different ways to approach having a lot of money. I have been lucky enough to be extremely well compensated these last few years. To the point where we are getting on toward having so much money that it doesn't seem possible to use it all, although we are nowhere in the range of this lottery winner. My family knows I'm doing well, but perhaps not exactly how well, which is a fine state of affairs as long as everyone understands that there are boundaries. I think you can use money like that to make life better for your loved ones without going all the way toward making them dependents, and personally it has felt right to do that for me. But everyone has their own views on what is best.
There are a bunch of different ways to approach having a lot of money. I have been lucky enough to be extremely well compensated these last few years. To the point where we are getting on toward having so much money that it doesn't seem possible to use it all, although we are nowhere in the range of this lottery winner. My family knows I'm doing well, but perhaps not exactly how well, which is a fine state of affairs as long as everyone understands that there are boundaries. I think you can use money like that to make life better for your loved ones without going all the way toward making them dependents, and personally it has felt right to do that for me. But everyone has their own views on what is best.
What is the point of writing a letter like this to
a money advice column?
But also: did somebody actually write this letter?
This is pure speculation but I'm about 99.99% certain that 99.99% of letters to advice columns are wholly fabricated by those who write the columns... right?
> Surely by 67 you should understand that wrong is the eye of the beholder.
Knowing that and feeling that are two different things. Sometimes you just need to hear it from another person (and, quite often, you should - it's easy to get stuck in a wrong view). There's nothing wrong with asking.
Knowing that and feeling that are two different things. Sometimes you just need to hear it from another person (and, quite often, you should - it's easy to get stuck in a wrong view). There's nothing wrong with asking.
is there some age at which it stops feeling good to be told you did the right thing?
I'm not sure about bragging, but it struck me that given that winners identity (at least names) are publicly available, the rough amount, and the rough time, he is pretty much outing himself. Maybe that has something to do with it.
Classic Reddit thread: https://old.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/24vzgl/you_just_...
> Congratulations! You just won millions of dollars in the lottery! That's great.
> Now you're fucked.
> No really.
> You are.
> You're fucked.
This guy did exactly the right thing.
> Congratulations! You just won millions of dollars in the lottery! That's great.
> Now you're fucked.
> No really.
> You are.
> You're fucked.
This guy did exactly the right thing.
It's such a low bar to pass. The guy in the article is 67, makes 1MM+ in interest a year, and won't even consider telling his friends or family? Or donating a penny of it? Is there not room for a middle ground here?
What about: "Hey, I made a million bucks in the lottery/stocks/crypto. I heard you're having a tough time, take this -- you don't owe me anything. Wishing you well, -Dave."
What about: "Hey, I made a million bucks in the lottery/stocks/crypto. I heard you're having a tough time, take this -- you don't owe me anything. Wishing you well, -Dave."
Word gets around and eventually you're going to get harassed, conned, and maybe even robbed.
I'll point out that, like it or not, the sort of money you're talking about is in the range of many CEOs or other senior execs of large US companies. Yes, some of these do have security services especially those at the high end of the range, but tens of millions of dollars pretty much puts you in the wealthy but not Uber-rich in the US.
Yeah, I think it’s the shape of the transition that makes the difference, and even then it can be weird.
If you’re an executive at a large company, you’ve spent so much time working on that that your social circle has changed. Even if you’re a startup founder, you’re not surrounded by the kids you went to high school with, you’re surrounded by enough other rich people that they aren’t gonna mooch off of you.
Winning the lottery is more like a rookie in a professional sports league signing their first contract. Sometimes that works out fine—they buy their mom a house and a new car—and sometimes they go broke supporting an entire entourage.
If you’re an executive at a large company, you’ve spent so much time working on that that your social circle has changed. Even if you’re a startup founder, you’re not surrounded by the kids you went to high school with, you’re surrounded by enough other rich people that they aren’t gonna mooch off of you.
Winning the lottery is more like a rookie in a professional sports league signing their first contract. Sometimes that works out fine—they buy their mom a house and a new car—and sometimes they go broke supporting an entire entourage.
Good comments.
As an extremely wealthy person or the very visible CEO of a company/division that stirs a lot of passion, you may want security against the nut cases. (I have some knowledge of this from trade shows.)
But for someone who has "just" become 8 figures wealthy over the course of their career, they may have some family branch that resents it but their relative success isn't an out of the blue thing. And CEOs are pretty good about saying no to people who want money for things.
As an extremely wealthy person or the very visible CEO of a company/division that stirs a lot of passion, you may want security against the nut cases. (I have some knowledge of this from trade shows.)
But for someone who has "just" become 8 figures wealthy over the course of their career, they may have some family branch that resents it but their relative success isn't an out of the blue thing. And CEOs are pretty good about saying no to people who want money for things.
And attracts stalkers and desperate? It may not be his friends or families, but strangers.
“Hi Dave,
Thanks for reaching out. You’re right that we were struggling and this generous gift really helped ease our minds.
Anyway, Auntie Venessa has come down with lung cancer and we’re finding it difficult to…”
etc
Thanks for reaching out. You’re right that we were struggling and this generous gift really helped ease our minds.
Anyway, Auntie Venessa has come down with lung cancer and we’re finding it difficult to…”
etc
"I never really liked Auntie Venessa"
Most humans suck at sorting out the cognitive dissonance between "I am a good guy" and "I let auntie Vanessa die".
Doesn't mean your approach isn't right. A lot of people just can't do that properly and it can cause stress and depression, so for them it's probably easier to just avoid having to think about it.
Humans aren't really the most sophisticated when it comes to situations like this. Almost like we weren't supposed to have 10,000x times more resources at our disposal compared to the person standing next to us.
But let's just ignore that and continue our game of monopoly. Maybe this time it'll end differently. I'm sitting next to the bank though, so the outcome is pretty much certain for me.
Doesn't mean your approach isn't right. A lot of people just can't do that properly and it can cause stress and depression, so for them it's probably easier to just avoid having to think about it.
Humans aren't really the most sophisticated when it comes to situations like this. Almost like we weren't supposed to have 10,000x times more resources at our disposal compared to the person standing next to us.
But let's just ignore that and continue our game of monopoly. Maybe this time it'll end differently. I'm sitting next to the bank though, so the outcome is pretty much certain for me.
This was already taken care of by saying that he won/made a million. So that would mean there is no money left for Auntie Venessa.
So his reply could literally be "I gave you a mil. Pay some of it forward."
So his reply could literally be "I gave you a mil. Pay some of it forward."
Psychologically, the middle ground turns out to be an unstable equilibrium. You can give them some money, but then they come back for more. If you say no, your family may find itself breaking apart unless you give up everything you got in the lottery
In that Reddit thread (assuming it is the one I'm thinking of) it seems there is also a high likelihood you get sued for giving people money because you didn't give them enough (under the same line of thought that if you regularly feed wild birds they will become dependent on your bird feeder and starve if you quit [don't know how true that is, but that is a common "wisdom"]). You also get harassed by local police, in addition to friends of your family breaking into your house/car.
> it seems there is also a high likelihood you get sued for giving people money because you didn't give them enough
Yup. Families can be like that.
Some distant relatives of mine, whom I never met, have been suing each other over some inheritance for what must be a good ~20 years now. I know because we're still getting an occasional mail from court calling my dad (who died many years ago) to stand witness in that case.
Yup. Families can be like that.
Some distant relatives of mine, whom I never met, have been suing each other over some inheritance for what must be a good ~20 years now. I know because we're still getting an occasional mail from court calling my dad (who died many years ago) to stand witness in that case.
No no, see, once you actually have money you stop caring about other people and just want to protect what you have. "Got mine, fuck you" and all that. At least, that's how it seems from all the advice that gets thrown around about people who suddenly come in to wealth. Weirdly no one gives advice related to the documented ways that people tend to change when they suddenly have much more money than the people around them.
> the documented ways that people tend to change when they suddenly have much more money than the people around them
Please share said documents. (Genuinely)
Please share said documents. (Genuinely)
The study that comes immediately to mind is Paul K Piff's Monopoly experiment. In it, one participant of each game was given twice as much starting money, twice as much Go money, and twice as many dice as the others. Consistently the "affluent" player would become more aggressive and less polite as the game went on. Other experiments conducted by Piff indicate a lack of empathy associated with increasing wealth. High wealth individuals being shown to be more likely to cut people off in traffic, lie during job interviews, cheat on tests, and in one experiment even more likely to steal candy from children.
One could, however, claim that Piff is biased, and for sure Psych studies have come under fire in general for being irreproducible. So I guess take it all with a grain of salt.
One could, however, claim that Piff is biased, and for sure Psych studies have come under fire in general for being irreproducible. So I guess take it all with a grain of salt.
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How much do you donate annually? 10 Million people donating 100$ per year is substantially more than he could ever donate.
Therefore he should not donate any? I don't see where to go from this position.
Everybody can choose to donate, nobody should donate (otherwise it is also not really a donation if you should). Singling out rich guys to donate who do not donate could actually be counterproductive (since people just feel the responsibility lies with the rich guys). Encouraging everybody to donate small amounts of money might lead to a better outcome.
I don't really see how that adds up. In order to collect $50B, everyone in the US would need to donate about $150. Or, Jeff Bezos could liquidate a 1/3 of his net worth. A bit exaggerated, and a bit of a cartoon, but you get the point.
Plus, the utility of an extra billion dollars to a billionaire is basically zero. Fight me if you disagree.
Plus, the utility of an extra billion dollars to a billionaire is basically zero. Fight me if you disagree.
Well Bezos donated 12 billion already, and who knows how much more he will donate. He probably couldn't donate every year that amount, so if you say in 20 years it is 150$/20=7.50per year which is less than a dollar per month (admittingly this is everybody in the US). This is a lot of money for a lot of people but I still believe the total possible donatable wealth of non rich people is orders of magnitude larger than rich people (couldn't find good stats, was looking a while ago)
“Three people can keep a secret if two are dead”
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What Dave does with his money is none of your concern. But since he put it out in the public, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
You see, that's the point of not telling anyone. Everyone has an opinion and once they know a little something about anything they want to share it. Most of those opinions are how to separate Dave from his money. Nobody needs that in their lives. Not Dave. Not anyone. He was right to keep quite and it looks like he had good reason to keep it quite in the first place. How you feel about finding a middle ground is the problem Dave was looking to avoid. See my first sentence.
You see, that's the point of not telling anyone. Everyone has an opinion and once they know a little something about anything they want to share it. Most of those opinions are how to separate Dave from his money. Nobody needs that in their lives. Not Dave. Not anyone. He was right to keep quite and it looks like he had good reason to keep it quite in the first place. How you feel about finding a middle ground is the problem Dave was looking to avoid. See my first sentence.
Our anonymous Dave has a tremendous excess of wealth that far exceeds his needs and his ability or desire to spend it. He asked "Was I wrong in not telling anyone about my winnings?"
My response was to that. Maybe sharing it, rather than concealing it, might actually make his life a little better (there is a soft joy in giving), and bring him closer to the needs of people around him.
I don't see why you think I crossed a line by giving my opinion. The man is asking for opinions!
My response was to that. Maybe sharing it, rather than concealing it, might actually make his life a little better (there is a soft joy in giving), and bring him closer to the needs of people around him.
I don't see why you think I crossed a line by giving my opinion. The man is asking for opinions!
What if Dave gets aggressive ALS and there is stem cell research that looks promising, but basically he has to help fund research? Does Dave need that now? Can he ask for it back?
I worked with people who tried to retire early but got embezzled. They knew someone whose wife got diagnosed with cancer months after retirement and that money just went poof. You can’t see the future, you don’t know.
What you know is that people overplan for emergencies and miss out on positive experiences because if it. These are not the same thing.
I worked with people who tried to retire early but got embezzled. They knew someone whose wife got diagnosed with cancer months after retirement and that money just went poof. You can’t see the future, you don’t know.
What you know is that people overplan for emergencies and miss out on positive experiences because if it. These are not the same thing.
> My response was to that. Maybe sharing it, rather than concealing it, might actually make his life a little better (there is a soft joy in giving), and bring him closer to the needs of people around him.
It would sure be nice to think that. But that's not how the world works. From the link I posted above, and very abridged:
> Jack Whittaker, a Johnny Cash attired, West Virginia native, is the poster boy for the dangers of a lump sum award. In 2002 Mr. Whittaker (55 years old at the time) won what was, also at the time, the largest single award jackpot in U.S. history. $315 million. At the time, he planned to live as if nothing had changed, or so he said. He was remarkably modest and decent before the jackpot, and his ship sure came in, right? Wrong.
> Mr. Whittaker became the subject of a number of personal challenges, escalating into personal tragedies, complicated by a number of legal troubles.
...
> Whittaker quickly became the subject of a number of financial stalkers, who would lurk at his regular breakfast hideout and accost him with suggestions for how to spend his money. They were unemployed. No, an interview tomorrow morning wasn't good enough. They needed cash NOW. Perhaps they had a sure-fire business plan. Their daughter had cancer. A niece needed dialysis. Needless to say, Whittaker stopped going to his breakfast haunt. Eventually, they began ringing his doorbell. Sometimes in the early morning. Before long he was paying off-duty deputies to protect his family. He was accused of being heartless. Cold. Stingy.
> Letters poured in. Children with cancer. Diabetes. MS. You name it. He hired three people to sort the mail. A detective to filter out the false claims and the con men (and women) was retained.
...
> Whittaker's car was twice broken into, by trusted acquaintances who watched him leave large amounts of cash in it. $500,000 and $200,000 were stolen in two separate instances. The thieves spiked Whittaker's drink with prescription drugs in the first instance. The second incident was the handiwork of his granddaughter's friends, who had been probing the girl for details on Whittaker's cash for weeks.
...
> Whittaker invested quite a bit in his own businesses, tripled the number of people his businesses employed (making him one of the larger employers in the area) and eventually had given away $14 million to charity through a foundation he set up for the purpose. This is, of course, what you are "supposed" to do. Set up a foundation. Be careful about your charity giving. It made no difference in the end.
...
> Today Whittaker is badly in debt, and bankruptcy looms large in his future.
It would sure be nice to think that. But that's not how the world works. From the link I posted above, and very abridged:
> Jack Whittaker, a Johnny Cash attired, West Virginia native, is the poster boy for the dangers of a lump sum award. In 2002 Mr. Whittaker (55 years old at the time) won what was, also at the time, the largest single award jackpot in U.S. history. $315 million. At the time, he planned to live as if nothing had changed, or so he said. He was remarkably modest and decent before the jackpot, and his ship sure came in, right? Wrong.
> Mr. Whittaker became the subject of a number of personal challenges, escalating into personal tragedies, complicated by a number of legal troubles.
...
> Whittaker quickly became the subject of a number of financial stalkers, who would lurk at his regular breakfast hideout and accost him with suggestions for how to spend his money. They were unemployed. No, an interview tomorrow morning wasn't good enough. They needed cash NOW. Perhaps they had a sure-fire business plan. Their daughter had cancer. A niece needed dialysis. Needless to say, Whittaker stopped going to his breakfast haunt. Eventually, they began ringing his doorbell. Sometimes in the early morning. Before long he was paying off-duty deputies to protect his family. He was accused of being heartless. Cold. Stingy.
> Letters poured in. Children with cancer. Diabetes. MS. You name it. He hired three people to sort the mail. A detective to filter out the false claims and the con men (and women) was retained.
...
> Whittaker's car was twice broken into, by trusted acquaintances who watched him leave large amounts of cash in it. $500,000 and $200,000 were stolen in two separate instances. The thieves spiked Whittaker's drink with prescription drugs in the first instance. The second incident was the handiwork of his granddaughter's friends, who had been probing the girl for details on Whittaker's cash for weeks.
...
> Whittaker invested quite a bit in his own businesses, tripled the number of people his businesses employed (making him one of the larger employers in the area) and eventually had given away $14 million to charity through a foundation he set up for the purpose. This is, of course, what you are "supposed" to do. Set up a foundation. Be careful about your charity giving. It made no difference in the end.
...
> Today Whittaker is badly in debt, and bankruptcy looms large in his future.
> Or donating a penny of it?
He's 67. If he's incredibly lucky, he'll have another 30 years to enjoy it. He has no kids.
I don't see anything wrong with donating it at/near death rather than now. We are not morally obliged to live the life of an ascetic.
He's 67. If he's incredibly lucky, he'll have another 30 years to enjoy it. He has no kids.
I don't see anything wrong with donating it at/near death rather than now. We are not morally obliged to live the life of an ascetic.
> Is there not room for a middle ground here?
Probably difficult. If I would do <something> it would trigger some sort of chain reaction => probably difficult to keep it contained => I would have to try to at least act slowly & do stuff step-by-step.
Personally for me it would be really hard if not impossible not to tell my parents, hehe.
But once a bigger audience would become aware of that, e.g. cousins, then it could start getting very complicated (e.g. if I would end up donating $ to cousin X because s/he has financial problems or I just want to be nice, then cousin Y or nephew W might want to know why s/he's not getting anything, etc...).
People to whom I donate money to might end up quickly losing it (bad investment because of multiple potential reasons, most famous one just not being used to have to deal with such an amount of money), then once they lost it they might come back to me asking for a "replay" (e.g. "pls. save me, you gave me $$ but I screwed up and made debts - you've done it once so can you give me a 2nd chance! Pleasepleaseplease!") and saying "no" will make them angry and because of the whole situation (which would basically be something which I triggered) I might end up feeling like I own them something, with the final result that the relationship would suffer even if originally it was good (all all $ would be gone).
All this is not irrealistic - e.g. I saw in the past some short documentaries about NFL and soccer players screwing up their lifes because of all the money they got all of a sudden.
Personally I think that I would probably try to create some kind of "cover story" (e.g. something involving having "earned" it the hard way - because just saying e.g. "I won it" might make people start to think "s/he got the $ easily therefore chances might be high that s/he'll easily share some of it with me" but on the other hand that's probably less likely to happen if I would say "I had to 100 hours a week during the last 5 years") and I would probably say that I got a lot less (e.g. 3-5M $) which would just be fine to give me a chance to raise a bit my standard of living and stop working after having paid taxes but not to give out left&right money for free. Even the question "stop working?" might not be easy to answer (maybe just do something part-time, otherwise by not working at all I would feel disconnected from all my friends & colleagues)
Even if I would manage to keep everything absolutely secret and not to do anything with that $, my bank WOULD call me asking what I plan to do with the $M that are parked on my account, probably asking for an appointment to tell me about many interesting investment opportunities => that's a difficult situation for any person who's not used to deal with this stuff, e.g. people might not want to admit (or just would not be aware) that they don't understand the risks linked to some investments/financial products/whatever. Saying "no" is often a lot harder than to say "yes" :)
Probably difficult. If I would do <something> it would trigger some sort of chain reaction => probably difficult to keep it contained => I would have to try to at least act slowly & do stuff step-by-step.
Personally for me it would be really hard if not impossible not to tell my parents, hehe.
But once a bigger audience would become aware of that, e.g. cousins, then it could start getting very complicated (e.g. if I would end up donating $ to cousin X because s/he has financial problems or I just want to be nice, then cousin Y or nephew W might want to know why s/he's not getting anything, etc...).
People to whom I donate money to might end up quickly losing it (bad investment because of multiple potential reasons, most famous one just not being used to have to deal with such an amount of money), then once they lost it they might come back to me asking for a "replay" (e.g. "pls. save me, you gave me $$ but I screwed up and made debts - you've done it once so can you give me a 2nd chance! Pleasepleaseplease!") and saying "no" will make them angry and because of the whole situation (which would basically be something which I triggered) I might end up feeling like I own them something, with the final result that the relationship would suffer even if originally it was good (all all $ would be gone).
All this is not irrealistic - e.g. I saw in the past some short documentaries about NFL and soccer players screwing up their lifes because of all the money they got all of a sudden.
Personally I think that I would probably try to create some kind of "cover story" (e.g. something involving having "earned" it the hard way - because just saying e.g. "I won it" might make people start to think "s/he got the $ easily therefore chances might be high that s/he'll easily share some of it with me" but on the other hand that's probably less likely to happen if I would say "I had to 100 hours a week during the last 5 years") and I would probably say that I got a lot less (e.g. 3-5M $) which would just be fine to give me a chance to raise a bit my standard of living and stop working after having paid taxes but not to give out left&right money for free. Even the question "stop working?" might not be easy to answer (maybe just do something part-time, otherwise by not working at all I would feel disconnected from all my friends & colleagues)
Even if I would manage to keep everything absolutely secret and not to do anything with that $, my bank WOULD call me asking what I plan to do with the $M that are parked on my account, probably asking for an appointment to tell me about many interesting investment opportunities => that's a difficult situation for any person who's not used to deal with this stuff, e.g. people might not want to admit (or just would not be aware) that they don't understand the risks linked to some investments/financial products/whatever. Saying "no" is often a lot harder than to say "yes" :)
That thread is really dumb. You can't just throw stuff out there like "You're 20x more likely to die of homicide!" and expect to be taken seriously.
1. The demographic that is likely to win lotteries might already be more likely to die of homicide (or become bankrupt, etc) than the general population.
2. Throwing large multiples out sounds flashy, but it doesn't mean much if the probability was already extremely low.
You're not fucked if you win the lottery... The amount you can afford with 100 million is incredible. Buy a huge lot and hire security. Hire great attorneys and financial firms to handle details. Don't spend more than you expect to make in interest yearly.
Boom, saved you from having to read a wall of Reddit lottery porn.
1. The demographic that is likely to win lotteries might already be more likely to die of homicide (or become bankrupt, etc) than the general population.
2. Throwing large multiples out sounds flashy, but it doesn't mean much if the probability was already extremely low.
You're not fucked if you win the lottery... The amount you can afford with 100 million is incredible. Buy a huge lot and hire security. Hire great attorneys and financial firms to handle details. Don't spend more than you expect to make in interest yearly.
Boom, saved you from having to read a wall of Reddit lottery porn.
That thread isn't particularly dumb. It's a completely normal level of dumbness for a reddit thread. You just happened to be able to smell the bullshit because you approached the topic in question with a critical eye.
They’re just nitpicking the unimportant bits while unwittingly(?) agreeing with the important bits (and adding some silliness of his own). But somehow that sort of smug contrarianism attracts this sort of self-congratulatory back rub about how “we” on hackernews are so much more enlightened than the blue forum’s masses…thus fulfilling the “normal level of dumbness” for an Orange Subreddit thread.
I never said it's any better here. All these "cram a bunch of disparate interest in one place" platforms are crap when it comes to discussion quality as far as I'm concerned. You want good discussion on a topic you gotta go where only the people who do that topic are and everyone else isn't.
I'm not nitpicking the unimportant bits. Half the thread is telling people why they're fucked (No really. You are. You're fucked.), and then using incorrect statistics and a long anecdote to back up their claim.
I am not making any claims on the dumbness on either platform, though.
I am not making any claims on the dumbness on either platform, though.
> You're not fucked if you win the lottery... The amount you can afford with 100 million is incredible. Buy a huge lot and hire security.
You're correct about not being fucked. It's dramatically easier than that though. Just go melt into New York City, where there are many thousands of people in that general wealth category.
The US has ~180,000 people with $30 million or more in wealth. 180,000!
You can trivially vanish in numerous major cities in the US if you have $100 million. No need to hire elaborate security or buy a fortress. With $1b it's still difficult to vanish; with $100m it's trivial. You won't show up on the money lists, the public won't know you exist, you won't be famous, the news media and paparazzi isn't going to hound you.
You're correct about not being fucked. It's dramatically easier than that though. Just go melt into New York City, where there are many thousands of people in that general wealth category.
The US has ~180,000 people with $30 million or more in wealth. 180,000!
You can trivially vanish in numerous major cities in the US if you have $100 million. No need to hire elaborate security or buy a fortress. With $1b it's still difficult to vanish; with $100m it's trivial. You won't show up on the money lists, the public won't know you exist, you won't be famous, the news media and paparazzi isn't going to hound you.
But I don't want to live in New York City. If I was forced to live in New York City, in terms of my personal life preferences and choices, I would characterize that as "fucked".
> You're not fucked if you win the lottery... The amount you can afford with 100 million is incredible. Buy a huge lot and hire security. Hire great attorneys and financial firms to handle details. Don't spend more than you expect to make in interest yearly.
If you bothered actually reading the thread, that's what it says to do.
If you bothered actually reading the thread, that's what it says to do.
I did read it. Why do you think I said "saved you from having to read a wall of Reddit lottery porn"?
There wasa reddit thread previously where a guy had 1,500 BTC in a wallet he couldnt recall the password for... I wrote to him calculating the value of the wallet at the time at $13 million.. I encouraged him to pay someone to help him crack the wallet and he agreed to give me 1% to assist him, which I did...
Then when he got the BTC, he ghosted.
If he succeeded, that BTC is $72 million today...
Then when he got the BTC, he ghosted.
If he succeeded, that BTC is $72 million today...
I made ~50 million in crypto. By far the most satisfying part was buying a house each for my friends and family. Having a paid off house is really a massive stress reducer for most people which imho gives you the 90% of the financial freedom of being super wealthy.
That's the dream right there. I've got 20 years to go on my note for my house and I just think wow, once this thing is paid off I've got it made in the shade. Good on you for helping them, much better investment than just buying them cars or gifts.
I agree with you, although I think it would be really easy to go overboard here. Did you have people come to you asking for houses? Maybe I'm being cynical, but I think that news would spread really quickly if someone in my friend group was buying houses for several people.
No, they kept it quiet. My close friend group is pretty distinct and tight so there wasn't really anyone on "the cusp".
That's probably a good clarification to make - some people have more friends than others so when you say you bought them each a house that could be just 4-5 people or 40-50. Good for you that you can share your good fortune with your friends without it affecting your relationship negatively.
No one has 40-50 close friends. Certainly not friends who you'd consider buying a house for.
Maybe I just have good friends but I feel like this fear is overblown.
I made a decent amount of money from a startup (enough to pay for a wedding + eventual retirement at a standard age). As part of this windfall I paid for a vacation for me and my close friends.
No one ever came asking for money. No one asked if we could do it again. Friends that didn't go have never asked for me to pay for their vacations. And if they did I would just say no.
I made a decent amount of money from a startup (enough to pay for a wedding + eventual retirement at a standard age). As part of this windfall I paid for a vacation for me and my close friends.
No one ever came asking for money. No one asked if we could do it again. Friends that didn't go have never asked for me to pay for their vacations. And if they did I would just say no.
I'm curious about how this works in practice. Did you just pick and buy houses for all of them? Or did they pick and you paid? If the latter, did you set some kind of price range?
Also, do you worry about any future expectations they might have?
Also, do you worry about any future expectations they might have?
Just gave them enuff money for a decent house each. Some already had a house they liked and paid off the mortgage and had a bit left over.
> By far the most satisfying part was buying a house each for my friends and family.
How did you decide who made the cut-off of being a "friend"? Seems like every acquaintance you ever had would suddenly become a fake friend if you were giving away free houses, no? Genuinely curious what that was like.
How did you decide who made the cut-off of being a "friend"? Seems like every acquaintance you ever had would suddenly become a fake friend if you were giving away free houses, no? Genuinely curious what that was like.
Isn't that easily solved by only including the friends you had before the windfall? I certainly know who I would pick for my best men and that's the same people that I would consider in a situation like that.
4 friends, minimum 20-30 year friendships, been either best man or groomsmen at each other's weddings, gone through lots together, been roommates, always been loyal and cool to each other.. not hard really
At my current ~2% mortgage interest rate, why do I want to pay off my house? I make more putting that money into investments returning me much better than that. I don't think the super wealthy keep their money needlessly tied up in real estate like that.
Because you are in a position to get a low interest mortgage, not everyone is. Then you have to consider that giving someone ₱250k to buy a house is different to buying someone a ₱250k house.
The super wealthy keep their money tied up in lots of things, including real estate. It's called diversity and investing in lots of things is significantly easier when you're... super wealthy.
If you invest in an S&P 500 index fund, you're diversified into 500 companies. Very easy to do.
The S&P 500 is certainly more diversified than individual stocks. But it's still only the largest US companies. By itself, it's only a somewhat diversified portfolio.
There are plenty of other index funds for whatever floats your boat. Even real estate funds. There's no problem being diversified.
Unless of course you invested in 2016 and it's Mar 2020 and it turns out you need the money now. You'll have no gain and fours years lost.
Diversification: It's All About (Asset) Class
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/financial-theory/08/as...
Diversification: It's All About (Asset) Class
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/financial-theory/08/as...
> why do I want to pay off my house?
Because its the poor-man's version of F-You money.
It instantly and dramatically lowers the monthly takings to have to make to keep your household going, and noticeably shifts the balance of power in all financial negotiations in your favour.
Try it. Trust me.
Because its the poor-man's version of F-You money.
It instantly and dramatically lowers the monthly takings to have to make to keep your household going, and noticeably shifts the balance of power in all financial negotiations in your favour.
Try it. Trust me.
It changed my life. I went from debt to significant savings/investments in under 5 years when I did it. Think of whatever your rent/mortgage is per month. Think of getting that sort of raise. How would it change your life? Money/debt became a tool instead of a burden for me personally.
Preach brother.
Its the psychological value, not some optimisation on a spreadsheet.
Its the psychological value, not some optimisation on a spreadsheet.
Even 'on the spreadsheet' it is borderline a wash. There is a very slight advantage to not paying it off depending on which state you live in and what their tax rates are. Thats if you can get the hypothetical 2% loan and 8% ROI per year. Many people forget taxes in that mix.
If you are comfortable with that go for it! Seriously. But paying it off simplified so many things in my life. I am now getting to a point where I could think about helping others with it. Which in and of itself is something you need to put thought into.
Also if you have a huge sum of cash you want 'safe bets' and 'gamble bets' and 'medium bets'. Buying property is usually in the 'safe bet' area. 'safe bets' you can realistically borrow against if something goes wrong with the other two catagories.
If you are comfortable with that go for it! Seriously. But paying it off simplified so many things in my life. I am now getting to a point where I could think about helping others with it. Which in and of itself is something you need to put thought into.
Also if you have a huge sum of cash you want 'safe bets' and 'gamble bets' and 'medium bets'. Buying property is usually in the 'safe bet' area. 'safe bets' you can realistically borrow against if something goes wrong with the other two catagories.
Not only that, but it is an unusually safe place to put money. If you have to go bankrupt, most other assets can be taken away from you, but the house you live in is usually safe.
I can't parse this comment. Shifts in power? Lowers the monthly takings? What?
If you expect to make 6-8% a year in the stock market and pay 2% in interest on a loan, you'd miss out on a lot of money paying it off.
You're essentially making another 4-6% a year on the amount of the loan. If that's a million dollar loan, that's $40-60k a year.
There are reasons not to do this, like if your interest rate was higher, or you want to be safer (it might not be 6-8% a year! You might even lose it all for some reason!), but I have no idea what your comment is saying.
If you expect to make 6-8% a year in the stock market and pay 2% in interest on a loan, you'd miss out on a lot of money paying it off.
You're essentially making another 4-6% a year on the amount of the loan. If that's a million dollar loan, that's $40-60k a year.
There are reasons not to do this, like if your interest rate was higher, or you want to be safer (it might not be 6-8% a year! You might even lose it all for some reason!), but I have no idea what your comment is saying.
You're focusing all on the math, but nothing on what it means to the person. Three questions:
1. How much are your monthly expenses?
2. How much of that is your mortgage payment?
3. If you had no payment, what would you do with that money?
Let's take an example:
1. Monthly expenses are $10,000 a month.
2. Mortgage is $4,000 a month.
3. If you had an extra $4,000 a month, you could work part time and volunteer more at that coding camp.
3. Because you have $80,000 saved, you could take a 6 month road trip, and still have time to find another job.
3. You could use that for one of the 15 side projects you've been thinking of.
3. You could go on a fancy vacation every year with your family.
3. All the while, no bank can evict you from your house, because you fully own it.
Are any of those things really worth foregoing extra 4-6% rate of return? For many people, they are. All it takes is no payments.
1. How much are your monthly expenses?
2. How much of that is your mortgage payment?
3. If you had no payment, what would you do with that money?
Let's take an example:
1. Monthly expenses are $10,000 a month.
2. Mortgage is $4,000 a month.
3. If you had an extra $4,000 a month, you could work part time and volunteer more at that coding camp.
3. Because you have $80,000 saved, you could take a 6 month road trip, and still have time to find another job.
3. You could use that for one of the 15 side projects you've been thinking of.
3. You could go on a fancy vacation every year with your family.
3. All the while, no bank can evict you from your house, because you fully own it.
Are any of those things really worth foregoing extra 4-6% rate of return? For many people, they are. All it takes is no payments.
...what are you talking about?
You don't just "have an extra $4,000 a month" if you pay off your house. You lose all the money that's currently earning you 4-6%.
$4k/mon is probably a million dollar loan or so, right? Well 4-6% of a million dollars is $40,000-$60,000 per year. $3,333 - $5,000 per month.
You can just fund everything you said using the interest gained on the million dollars, while at the same time putting money towards paying off the house.
Of course, we're talking about a 2% rate. If it was 4+% then it might not be worth the risk.
You don't just "have an extra $4,000 a month" if you pay off your house. You lose all the money that's currently earning you 4-6%.
$4k/mon is probably a million dollar loan or so, right? Well 4-6% of a million dollars is $40,000-$60,000 per year. $3,333 - $5,000 per month.
You can just fund everything you said using the interest gained on the million dollars, while at the same time putting money towards paying off the house.
Of course, we're talking about a 2% rate. If it was 4+% then it might not be worth the risk.
It's kinda crazy that people think you can only get this by being rich. Why don't we just eliminate the market in housing and make it super cheap to live? We have more houses than people.
Housing exists at a particular place, so there is always scarcity of location. More people would want to live across the street from (say) Disneyland than can physically fit, so a market will exist no matter what.
If you mean cheap or free housing should exist as a public works project, that is possible... and what you get without a profit motive is Soviet style apartment cinderblocks.
If you mean cheap or free housing should exist as a public works project, that is possible... and what you get without a profit motive is Soviet style apartment cinderblocks.
Soviet apartments were constrained by resources (the economy was balancing guns and butter for a long time). I think we can do better.
Also worth mentioning, much of our housing stock, especially rentals, are totally falling apart and unmaintained. Soviet housing was of higher quality to at least some of our existing stock -- especially in poor areas.
Also worth mentioning, much of our housing stock, especially rentals, are totally falling apart and unmaintained. Soviet housing was of higher quality to at least some of our existing stock -- especially in poor areas.
> Why don't we just eliminate the market in housing … we have more houses than people/
Sure tavaresh, I'd like a mine to be pied á terre in the Hamptons. You know, since there's no shortage.
Please try debug your suggestions first.
Sure tavaresh, I'd like a mine to be pied á terre in the Hamptons. You know, since there's no shortage.
Please try debug your suggestions first.
Debt is risk. You told the bank/lender that you would pay $x every month for n years. How do you do plan to meet that?
Pretend you lose your job in an economic recession. You can't make your mortgage payment anymore, and because recession, your investments aren't worth anything either. Lets pretend you have rental properties, too: there's an eviction moratorium, and small businesses are closing left and right, so almost no one's paying rent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_recession
OH F**K.
Pretend you lose your job in an economic recession. You can't make your mortgage payment anymore, and because recession, your investments aren't worth anything either. Lets pretend you have rental properties, too: there's an eviction moratorium, and small businesses are closing left and right, so almost no one's paying rent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_recession
OH F**K.
Those investments and returns are not risk free. You just can't equate getting out of an obligation, like a mortgage, with returns on a risky investment that you aren't otherwise involved in.
At 2%, especially if I was getting a tax deduction, I probably wouldn't be in a big hurry to pay off a mortgage if I had otherwise available investment capital. But that's paying off 2% guaranteed. I'm not going to earn that today with a risk-free investment. I'll probably earn more than that on a diversified investment, but it's not a given.
Did you have to pay a gift tax for each friend?
Did each friend have to pay income tax on the money/property you gave them?
How was the house actually paid for, did you give the friends cash or did you buy the house for them and somehow gift it to them?
Did each friend have to pay income tax on the money/property you gave them?
How was the house actually paid for, did you give the friends cash or did you buy the house for them and somehow gift it to them?
Wonder if people like you think about funding startups that are not attractive to traditional investors. I'm talking about funding outsiders with something that doesn't sound very exciting, but might work out
If this person wanted to hear about that sort of opportunity, they probably wouldn't have been so careful about secrecy.
> funding startups that are not attractive to traditional investors
It's a great way to lose a lot of money. It's why venture capitalists prefer to play with other people's money.
You better absolutely love playing god with start-ups, because there is a hellish nightmare that can go with allocating capital to high-risk new businesses, tracking everything, being responsible for it, enforcing legal agreements, dealing with lawyers and accountants, dealing with conflicts, watching people do incredibly stupid things with your money, and on and on and on it goes.
And you can't just hire people to entirely remove you from the annoying aspects, because that's an even faster way to lose a lot of money.
It's a great way to lose a lot of money. It's why venture capitalists prefer to play with other people's money.
You better absolutely love playing god with start-ups, because there is a hellish nightmare that can go with allocating capital to high-risk new businesses, tracking everything, being responsible for it, enforcing legal agreements, dealing with lawyers and accountants, dealing with conflicts, watching people do incredibly stupid things with your money, and on and on and on it goes.
And you can't just hire people to entirely remove you from the annoying aspects, because that's an even faster way to lose a lot of money.
Exactly, so if people don't really care about being rich - they might do this like some sort of charity. I understand there are lots of charlatans and con artists, but I think basically giving away money this way is a good way to make progress in research etc as a civilization. We need to fund boring stuff and randomly give money to people who can't raise from VCs.
It's just my overactive imagination. But how do you protect yourself? Like from robbers and other people with ill-intent.
Sweet username.
Was that before taxes, or did you pay taxes on a CEX only? Not that I am accusing you or expect you to admit even pseudonymously to tax evasion (and not that I judge you or know what your country’s laws are)—more just curious how the crypto-wealthy typically handle this.
This is the right thing to do if you want to keep it and stay sane. If I won I'd delete all social networking, change my phone number, set up an LLC and make purchases through that.
The quote of "I know that my parents would not have asked for a thing, but my sister would have told me to donate half to her church" makes my stomach turn.
The quote of "I know that my parents would not have asked for a thing, but my sister would have told me to donate half to her church" makes my stomach turn.
He should help his sister out by willing all his money to a religious cult deprogramming organization like Cult Awareness Network.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deprogramming
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_Awareness_Network
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deprogramming
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_Awareness_Network
Setting up an LLC to be used as your personal incognito identity is definitely illegal. LLCs are meant to be for operating a legitimate business, not a second personal identity.
IANAL, but this seems more theoretically correct than practically correct. The truly wealthy have hierarchies of LLCs for the purpose of tax "minimization".
IANAL as well, but I’m sure that is very well the case.
Edit: maybe it’s not illegal, just a bad idea:
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/llc-basics-30163.htm...
If owners don't treat the LLC as a separate business, a court might decide that the LLC doesn't really exist and find that its owners are really doing business as individuals who are personally liable for their acts.
Edit: maybe it’s not illegal, just a bad idea:
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/llc-basics-30163.htm...
If owners don't treat the LLC as a separate business, a court might decide that the LLC doesn't really exist and find that its owners are really doing business as individuals who are personally liable for their acts.
I have no criticisms of Nolo, but "the truly wealthy" hire lawyers. Those professionals are skilled at determining whether to set up partnerships, C-corps, LLCs, whatever. Besides we're talking about anonymity for anonymity's sake (well, also tax minimization and probably lots of other rich people priorities we peons can't imagine), not for dodging creditors. If the principal is poor enough to need to dodge creditors, probably the whole house of paper collapses.
(Probably also the lawyers are the first to know, so they'll get paid up front and be long gone at the time of collapse.)
(Probably also the lawyers are the first to know, so they'll get paid up front and be long gone at the time of collapse.)
Can you elaborate on this? I think perhaps there's a gap between what the structure is "meant to be for" (meant by who?) and what's legal.
IANAL, but yeah, I’m sure tons of people toe the line or try to use LLCs as their personal piggy bank but I imagine it can come back to bite you if you are taking business tax deductions for personal expenses. I think “influencer” Dan Bilzerian may be in hot water for this (or could be). Every major personal purchase of his is done through his company.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisroberts/2020/07/09/dan-bil...
> According to the suit, the accountants flagged $843,014.06 in company expenses that appeared to be “personal in nature.” These included payments for charges racked up on one of Dan Bilzerian’s credit cards: a half-million dollar yacht rental; a six-figure, two-night trip to London; a $65,000 “Four Elements Guns & Star Wars Set”; a $50,000 bed fame, a $75,000 paint-ball field, an $88,000 vault, “to name a few.”
Maybe it’s not illegal per-se and maybe just a bad idea:
If owners don't treat the LLC as a separate business, a court might decide that the LLC doesn't really exist and find that its owners are really doing business as individuals who are personally liable for their acts.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/llc-basics-30163.htm...
Maybe it’s not illegal per-se and maybe just a bad idea:
If owners don't treat the LLC as a separate business, a court might decide that the LLC doesn't really exist and find that its owners are really doing business as individuals who are personally liable for their acts.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/llc-basics-30163.htm...
Definitely consult a lawyer, but it is legal in some circumstances in some states to (for example) anonymously claim lottery winnings or buy real estate. See https://www.natlawreview.com/article/using-llc-or-trust-to-r... for more information.
That would make sense since many businesses invest in real estate and there’s a few states like Delaware that allow anonymous formation of LLCs.
This would never fly in Canada, where lottery winners must present themselves in person for wins, with publicity and all. Full names are given to the press, complete with home town and smiling face. Some winners have tried to skirt or directly challenge those regulations, to no avail. A winner cannot disappear behind an LLC or other apparatus. Frankly I'd be greatly worried about collecting a huge win from a Canadian lottery unless I departed the ceremony directly to a private plane for any of the well known tax havens in the Caribbean.
I believe it's true to at least some degree of some US states as well. I assume this is a transparency thing so people know that the governor's brother didn't by "sheer chance" win the lottery.
That would suck.
In China when you win the lottery, while they don't reveal your name, you still need to collect the prize/cheque in person and pose for publicity shots. This has lead to the amusing situation of most winners turning up in various masks or even full sports event mascot style costumes to collect the winnings.
In China when you win the lottery, while they don't reveal your name, you still need to collect the prize/cheque in person and pose for publicity shots. This has lead to the amusing situation of most winners turning up in various masks or even full sports event mascot style costumes to collect the winnings.
Could you just change your name & address before you claim your prize?
In Israel apparently too:
https://youtu.be/9PK-netuhHA?t=351
https://youtu.be/9PK-netuhHA?t=351
Probably a fake. I visit MarketWatch a couple of times a week and they always feature on the front page a letter of someone in a unusual financial situation who has taken, or is planning, questionable decisions about their money. The ghost writer behind this is quite good, I have to admit.
This reads/feels like an AITA thread on reddit. I used to enjoy the MarketWatch questions until I reached a tipping point where I believed they were all fake. Sigh.
I made a good deal from long-term crypto holdings and never told anyone, and it was much easier that way. I would still help family; they just didn't know how easy it was for me to help them, and so didn't ask for more.
Startup exit happened and a wrench got thrown in it all, though. Many acquaintances from years ago would text me about having had a class with me and having seen the news. I told myself I'd reply after a few weeks but in the end never did.
The paranoia since has made me a substantially worse person, and taken away how easily I trust.
When it comes to dating, I alternate between "money is now the most stable part of my life, so who cares if people partially like me over it? I earned it after all!" and "it's not as meaningful, I want someone who likes me solely for my other traits, but I can't trust whether that's the case."
Do everything you can to keep your success private.
Startup exit happened and a wrench got thrown in it all, though. Many acquaintances from years ago would text me about having had a class with me and having seen the news. I told myself I'd reply after a few weeks but in the end never did.
The paranoia since has made me a substantially worse person, and taken away how easily I trust.
When it comes to dating, I alternate between "money is now the most stable part of my life, so who cares if people partially like me over it? I earned it after all!" and "it's not as meaningful, I want someone who likes me solely for my other traits, but I can't trust whether that's the case."
Do everything you can to keep your success private.
~$11 million from a whistleblower reward.
Similar in some ways to winning the lottery, but there was no way to avoid some friends and family finding out. E.g. a friend and my dad helped edit my award claim submission.
I moved to a new city, kept it private, eventually told a couple new friends. Some people treat you the same, some people treat you differently (in a bad way, like another commenter mentioned). So it's useful as a filtering mechanism.
Similar in some ways to winning the lottery, but there was no way to avoid some friends and family finding out. E.g. a friend and my dad helped edit my award claim submission.
I moved to a new city, kept it private, eventually told a couple new friends. Some people treat you the same, some people treat you differently (in a bad way, like another commenter mentioned). So it's useful as a filtering mechanism.
Obvious question, the people you blew the whistle on didn't hire people to track and harass you? Or worse.
They did. I got a Belgian Malinois and a concealed carry permit.
Wow, can you say who you blew the whistle on? And where I can find a whistle like that? ;)
Seems like being somebody who blew the whistle would act as a pretty good filtering mechanism too. You probably don't get many invitations to hang out and party with Matt Gaetz...
Seems like being somebody who blew the whistle would act as a pretty good filtering mechanism too. You probably don't get many invitations to hang out and party with Matt Gaetz...
In contrast with the prototypical lottery winner who burns through all their money and ends up basically where they started, this guy didn't spend any significant amount of his money and ended up basically where he started.
Most people who suddenly make a lot of money blow through it in only seven years. (From "The Challenges of Wealth", 1988). This guy is doing the right thing.
Many of those people making at high salaries at FAANG companies need to be saving more of it, because they'll be over the hill in their 40s, with 40 years left to go.
Many of those people making at high salaries at FAANG companies need to be saving more of it, because they'll be over the hill in their 40s, with 40 years left to go.
There's a balancing act of saving vs spending. A lot of people pinch pennies and save for retirement, working 60-80 hr weeks, skipping vacations and family parties, buying the cheapest car, etc. When they get to be 65 their health prevents them from actually enjoying that money. Maybe they get to that age and they die and never get to spend any of it.
I do hope this guy is at least going on some trips and utilizing his gift while he can. Seems pretty pointless to hoard $50M to do nothing with it (yes, he collects the interest, but my point still stands.)
I do hope this guy is at least going on some trips and utilizing his gift while he can. Seems pretty pointless to hoard $50M to do nothing with it (yes, he collects the interest, but my point still stands.)
Except this guy never has to work again if he doesn't want to.
Just the network effect of, say, two degrees of Kevin Bacon here is interesting. When it gets to three, rather than directly be approached "hey old buddy old pal" what you would have to do is wonder what percentage of those folks are grifters, con artists, and your basic criminals.
I have a Cousin Tammy I've never met, who out of nowhere calls and tries to hit us up for money every so often. Two degrees. If Cousin Tammy knows some desperate people ...
You have to really weigh how much you trust each person you tell not to tell, and you have to also evaluate all of the people they might tell -- which is not an easy task. For example, I am estranged from my father who, if I went into why, most people here would easily agree, if not suggest pressing charges. Despite repeatedly asking my mother not to tell my father anything about me -- where I work, what I do, and so forth -- she does it.
Ergo, if I really want to keep something from my father, I cannot tell my mother.
Now, imagine doing this for everyone you know, plus a lot of money, which at fifty-five million dollars, which, in the words of The Way of the Gun "is not money. It's a motive with a universal adapter on it."
I have a Cousin Tammy I've never met, who out of nowhere calls and tries to hit us up for money every so often. Two degrees. If Cousin Tammy knows some desperate people ...
You have to really weigh how much you trust each person you tell not to tell, and you have to also evaluate all of the people they might tell -- which is not an easy task. For example, I am estranged from my father who, if I went into why, most people here would easily agree, if not suggest pressing charges. Despite repeatedly asking my mother not to tell my father anything about me -- where I work, what I do, and so forth -- she does it.
Ergo, if I really want to keep something from my father, I cannot tell my mother.
Now, imagine doing this for everyone you know, plus a lot of money, which at fifty-five million dollars, which, in the words of The Way of the Gun "is not money. It's a motive with a universal adapter on it."
In Finland tax records are public and papers make articles and search engines so anyone can look up how rich any person is (as long as they make more than 150k or so)
People complain and there has been talk and steps forward about changing the system but in the end I don’t think that much harm comes from it.
Ironically lottery winnings are tax free so they are the only people with stealth wealth.
People complain and there has been talk and steps forward about changing the system but in the end I don’t think that much harm comes from it.
Ironically lottery winnings are tax free so they are the only people with stealth wealth.
Wages are such a weird thing...
In HS I was a grocery bagger and I made $5.34/hr 1992-93
I then worked as head cad drafter (autocad) for multiple architects... When I announced I was quitting my firm to move to seattle, I told them I was moving and needed a raise so I could save up to move in 3 months, they laughed at my gall and granted me the raise from $8.50/hr to $9.25 -- 1994
I moved to Seattle then made $9.50 as head draftsman designing Fred Huchinson Cancer Research Center and a bunch of fast food restaurants and gas stations and cell sites... (Rent was $400/month for a 1 bedroom)
Moved back to the Bay in '97 and got a job as IT manager for a company making $42K/yr (Rent was $1,200 for 3-br
then $65k
then $70K
then $104K (mortgage $2400)
120, 150, 170, 250K
Now I am looking for work and make nothing...
I am happier making nothing than anytime I was on the clock 24/7/365 worrying about production uptime that made nothing better in this world....
In HS I was a grocery bagger and I made $5.34/hr 1992-93
I then worked as head cad drafter (autocad) for multiple architects... When I announced I was quitting my firm to move to seattle, I told them I was moving and needed a raise so I could save up to move in 3 months, they laughed at my gall and granted me the raise from $8.50/hr to $9.25 -- 1994
I moved to Seattle then made $9.50 as head draftsman designing Fred Huchinson Cancer Research Center and a bunch of fast food restaurants and gas stations and cell sites... (Rent was $400/month for a 1 bedroom)
Moved back to the Bay in '97 and got a job as IT manager for a company making $42K/yr (Rent was $1,200 for 3-br
then $65k
then $70K
then $104K (mortgage $2400)
120, 150, 170, 250K
Now I am looking for work and make nothing...
I am happier making nothing than anytime I was on the clock 24/7/365 worrying about production uptime that made nothing better in this world....
One thing I learned from reading The WEIRDest People in the World by Joseph Heinrich is that saving (delayed gratification) can be detrimental to a lot of people in various societies around the world.
Part of it is that if you have money, then it will make you a target for thieves or corruption. But also, family members will ask you to borrow money if they know you have some. And if no one has any saved money, whenever they have an emergency, they’ll go beg the lone person who might have some. So, you’re better off just spending any money you get right away so that you don’t have to give it over to a family member.
Clearly, that equilibrium is hard to break out of, and pretty much requires kin based institutions to be broken down first (which is the thesis of the book for how the rich world got rich).
Part of it is that if you have money, then it will make you a target for thieves or corruption. But also, family members will ask you to borrow money if they know you have some. And if no one has any saved money, whenever they have an emergency, they’ll go beg the lone person who might have some. So, you’re better off just spending any money you get right away so that you don’t have to give it over to a family member.
Clearly, that equilibrium is hard to break out of, and pretty much requires kin based institutions to be broken down first (which is the thesis of the book for how the rich world got rich).
The friend/family perception is real and one thing, but really i think this silence creates yet more separation creating ever more loneliness.
Ultimately, my fear for lottery winners is akin to discovering cheat codes in early video games. Turning on "Infinite Money" in $GAME was great... until it quickly sucked all of the joy out of the game. The limited resource challenge disappeared. I don't know anyone who has won the lottery, but i'd be worried you risk creating that very same sentiment, except about life itself. Scary, should you not have another well-established and faithfully-held purpose.
Ultimately, my fear for lottery winners is akin to discovering cheat codes in early video games. Turning on "Infinite Money" in $GAME was great... until it quickly sucked all of the joy out of the game. The limited resource challenge disappeared. I don't know anyone who has won the lottery, but i'd be worried you risk creating that very same sentiment, except about life itself. Scary, should you not have another well-established and faithfully-held purpose.
You could make the same argument about a steady food supply but I'm not going to start foraging exclusively.
I wouldn't worry about life itself. Life is not like a single-player games, the challenges thrown at you usually are not meant to be fun.
The more worrying part is the deteriorating social network. You go through life surrounded by friends and family, who are mostly in similar circumstances to you, face mostly similar problems. It's one of the biggest group-binding force. After a big windfall, you'll no longer have the same problems as other people in your life. That'll make it tricky to maintain relationships.
The more worrying part is the deteriorating social network. You go through life surrounded by friends and family, who are mostly in similar circumstances to you, face mostly similar problems. It's one of the biggest group-binding force. After a big windfall, you'll no longer have the same problems as other people in your life. That'll make it tricky to maintain relationships.
The cheat code feeling might only occur if your focus in life is earning lots of money. If you are instead pursuing to contribute something valuable in arts or sciences, a ton of money might just give you ease of mind and time to create something really worthwhile. Thinking about René Descartes, Charles Darwin and (as a more recent example) Jimmy Wales. It could indeed be that many of the former lottery winners ending up badly fell into the former camp.
> I also do not believe in loaning money to friends and relatives, no matter what.
This guy sounds like a special kind of asshole. Who wins $55 million dollars and thinks about “loaning” money to their parents? Lol. I get why you wouldn’t want to tell anyone you won the lotto, but you can tell a little white lie and claim to be doing well career wise so you have an excuse to give your parents some money.
This guy wants to justify being a greedy jerk IMO.
This guy sounds like a special kind of asshole. Who wins $55 million dollars and thinks about “loaning” money to their parents? Lol. I get why you wouldn’t want to tell anyone you won the lotto, but you can tell a little white lie and claim to be doing well career wise so you have an excuse to give your parents some money.
This guy wants to justify being a greedy jerk IMO.
Multiply this comment by x10000 and thats precisely what youll be dealing with as described exactly in this previously mentioned Reddit thread
https://old.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/24vzgl/you_just_...
https://old.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/24vzgl/you_just_...
Unless his parents were about to be evicted due to payment delinquencies, why would he need to give or lend them money?
And until such a time, he can at least give his parents the gift of not asking them for money.
Man, if I won that kind of money I'd treat my parents to crazy stuff like a nice classic car or a trip around the world... and I'm not even that close to them.
Low-Key's sister, is this you?
Nowhere near this money, but I did notice during this pandemic a situation where:
- Wife and I were in a tricky situation (stuck in a different country, living with parents since we couldn't go back home).
- It was stressful to be away from our home and not knowing when/if you'll be back.
- Nobody in the family offered any empathy to this situation since "what do you care? You have money."
We're nowhere near even the bottom mid of the most affected people by the pandemic, so don't take this as whining. I think others (especially those who don't have enough money not to worry) tend to believe that money would solve all their problems. Hence, they think you don't deserve empathy.
- Wife and I were in a tricky situation (stuck in a different country, living with parents since we couldn't go back home).
- It was stressful to be away from our home and not knowing when/if you'll be back.
- Nobody in the family offered any empathy to this situation since "what do you care? You have money."
We're nowhere near even the bottom mid of the most affected people by the pandemic, so don't take this as whining. I think others (especially those who don't have enough money not to worry) tend to believe that money would solve all their problems. Hence, they think you don't deserve empathy.
> ‘I have not donated money to anyone or any organization. I also do not believe in loaning money to friends and relatives, no matter what’
Smart man. He did the right thing and I would gladly do the same in exchange for that kind of money any day of the week. Ironically, the idealists who don't understand the risks of letting people know how much money you have are also the ones who will suffer the most when they hear people's sob stories about why they need $X or why things are so hard from them; so they have even more reason not to publicize their wealth.
Smart man. He did the right thing and I would gladly do the same in exchange for that kind of money any day of the week. Ironically, the idealists who don't understand the risks of letting people know how much money you have are also the ones who will suffer the most when they hear people's sob stories about why they need $X or why things are so hard from them; so they have even more reason not to publicize their wealth.
Donating is ok but I'd kind of recommend being anonymous or they'll bug you for more for ever after.
I've met Paul Allen, and I've always felt kind of sorry for him. I suspect he never had any real friends after he got rich. He did have a lot of "friends" who liked to party on his yacht.
This week I have had two of my few friendships hit the rocks who have approached me for money.
One is pushing me to invest in his business, and one approached me for a reasonably large loan.
I've explained to both that I don't feel able to, but I can tell that both feel I am being unreasonable because it's only $XXk which they know isn't that significant to me.
I wish they hadn't have asked as it feels fatal for the friendships.
I already feel a bit of an outsider for sometimes having money.
Maybe all of these problems are in my own head.....
Either way, the lottery winner had the right idea.
One is pushing me to invest in his business, and one approached me for a reasonably large loan.
I've explained to both that I don't feel able to, but I can tell that both feel I am being unreasonable because it's only $XXk which they know isn't that significant to me.
I wish they hadn't have asked as it feels fatal for the friendships.
I already feel a bit of an outsider for sometimes having money.
Maybe all of these problems are in my own head.....
Either way, the lottery winner had the right idea.
Unfortunate situation for sure, try to make friends with people who have similar levels of wealth I guess.
Struggling to understand the motivation for writing a letter like this, at that age. I wouldn't be surprised if the story was simply fabricated to attract traffic and site engagement.
Other than not donating any of it, he made the right call. The fact that the winner still has the money after 10 years is evidence he took the correct course.
I have worked in the nonprofit industry for 10 years. People with money have no moral obligation to give me money. The way the organizations I work with spend the money is about what you would expect for a business with no real economic incentive to be efficient or solve the advertised problem. Lots of politics, lots of waste, lots of egos.
I will never steward your life savings to improve the world as well as you would have stewarded it yourself. If you have resources and want to "give back" find ways to give back to the people and community around you. You can't outsource your goodness to some else.
There are good organizations out there of course. If you are in a position to give a large gift to a nonprofit, please do your research and use the principals of effective philanthropy.
I will never steward your life savings to improve the world as well as you would have stewarded it yourself. If you have resources and want to "give back" find ways to give back to the people and community around you. You can't outsource your goodness to some else.
There are good organizations out there of course. If you are in a position to give a large gift to a nonprofit, please do your research and use the principals of effective philanthropy.
> I will never steward your life savings to improve the world as well as you would have stewarded it yourself
You're too humble. Did you say you have a job working with people who have giant egos and politicking? If I ever won it big, my idea of philanthropy is to give random people on the street $100 for no reason, except I have agoraphobia and can't leave the house. Is that really the best use of $50mm if I won the lottery? I don't have the attention span to do better than that, plus the effective altruism people I've met in person are all douchebags.
Do you really think you'd not do a better job than just anybody that reads your comment? especially having seen some of the waste up front
You're too humble. Did you say you have a job working with people who have giant egos and politicking? If I ever won it big, my idea of philanthropy is to give random people on the street $100 for no reason, except I have agoraphobia and can't leave the house. Is that really the best use of $50mm if I won the lottery? I don't have the attention span to do better than that, plus the effective altruism people I've met in person are all douchebags.
Do you really think you'd not do a better job than just anybody that reads your comment? especially having seen some of the waste up front
If someone wanted to donate, which are the top organizations you'd recommend and which are the top ones you'd avoid given your knowledge on efficiency and grifting?
GiveWell and other "Effective Altruist" organizations are generally the most widely-trusted source for these recommendations. If you're OK with their starting principles and assumptions (which you should familiarize yourself with!) they seem pretty solid overall.
As other commenter mentioned, EA is a useful framework for thinking about giving (what is my dollar really buying and is that a step change in something like foundational research). But don't give to the mainstream EA causes, they already are sitting on billions. Find small groups of people doing speculative stuff and fund them for exploratory research.
> But don't give to the mainstream EA causes, they already are sitting on billions.
I have to partially disagree with this, because EA organizations do select causes with a decent amount of "room" for more funding. It hardly matters that they're getting billions, your money will still easily contribute 100× or plausibly 1000× to society-wide benefit compared to just spending it on yourself. Of course some people might be aware of some kind of neglected opportunity with even larger returns, but that's surely not that typical. And efforts like the Open Philanthropy Project exist to focus on higher-variance causes than what GiveWell deals with, that for this reason might not appeal to mainstream donors.
I have to partially disagree with this, because EA organizations do select causes with a decent amount of "room" for more funding. It hardly matters that they're getting billions, your money will still easily contribute 100× or plausibly 1000× to society-wide benefit compared to just spending it on yourself. Of course some people might be aware of some kind of neglected opportunity with even larger returns, but that's surely not that typical. And efforts like the Open Philanthropy Project exist to focus on higher-variance causes than what GiveWell deals with, that for this reason might not appeal to mainstream donors.
This is a common misconception. The only reason e.g. Against Malaria has a 'funding gap' is because the EA funds don't want to fill it out of fear of 'crowding out' individual donors which is a sketchy proposition.
This may have been true for some time in the past, but it seems that new funding opportunities/causes have cropped up which are competitive with AMF, so that the EA funds are once again constrained by the overall amount of funding.
You can also review OpenPhil's grant database and see that they don't really fund moon shots. They fund shovel ready, track record approved low-variance plays mostly.
To add to the other good comments, I think the best strategy is to find a really small organization with a laser focus, just a few million in run rate and less than a few dozen key staff. A small number of focused and passionate people can move mountains, just like in a startup. One you have vetted them, give them just enough to reach their next level of effectiveness, but with lots of strings and accountability. Think like a VC, is this team capable of getting the job done? Can their work be scaled with more capital?
There are good giant charities, but you're too small a fish for them. The "membership" programs at most charities are just lead gen pipelines for major gifts and breaking even on marketing cost is pretty normal no matter what the little expenses pie charts say. If you are wealthy enough that the CEO of MSF is talking to you then you then disregard what I just said and consult your staff who runs your personal foundation.
There are good giant charities, but you're too small a fish for them. The "membership" programs at most charities are just lead gen pipelines for major gifts and breaking even on marketing cost is pretty normal no matter what the little expenses pie charts say. If you are wealthy enough that the CEO of MSF is talking to you then you then disregard what I just said and consult your staff who runs your personal foundation.
Well, if conserving money is your goal then any course you took to conserve money is self-evidently a correct one.
The more interesting questions are if and why money conservation to this extent would be desirable. Neither is self-evident to me – but, admittedly, also not terribly interesting.
The more interesting questions are if and why money conservation to this extent would be desirable. Neither is self-evident to me – but, admittedly, also not terribly interesting.
I would not consider not donating to be wrong, or donating to necessarily be right.
Bioethicist/philosopher Peter Singer disagrees.
"if you are living comfortably while others are hungry or dying from easily preventable diseases, and you are doing nothing about it, there is something wrong with your behavior." [1]
I'm inclined to agree with him. This is my current moral quandry, since my income is about to dramatically increase.
I'm looking for a new car. I can pay in cash. I could pay $90K for a Porsche, or $20K for a used Honda and donate $70K to Doctors without Borders. (I don't drive much, so the difference in environmental impact is negligible.)
This is not theoretical. People in Haiti are dying just 1400 miles away, and $70K could really help.
1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/charity/duty_1.shtml
"if you are living comfortably while others are hungry or dying from easily preventable diseases, and you are doing nothing about it, there is something wrong with your behavior." [1]
I'm inclined to agree with him. This is my current moral quandry, since my income is about to dramatically increase.
I'm looking for a new car. I can pay in cash. I could pay $90K for a Porsche, or $20K for a used Honda and donate $70K to Doctors without Borders. (I don't drive much, so the difference in environmental impact is negligible.)
This is not theoretical. People in Haiti are dying just 1400 miles away, and $70K could really help.
1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/charity/duty_1.shtml
This is an age-old concern, and there's a traditional approach: tithing. Automatically donate 10% of your after-tax income to a charity you believe in. Then stop thinking about it except in special emergencies. Tune the percentage as you wish, but make that decision once (or infrequently) and keep it out of your daily anxieties.
10% seems appropriate for those of limited means. I'm not sure it applies to those of us more fortunate.
Yes, but you can spend your whole life worrying about appropriate amount to donate, without donating anything in the meantime.
10% is a good start. If you think it's too little, you can adjust upwards later. While you're making up your mind, you'll still be giving that 10%!
10% is a good start. If you think it's too little, you can adjust upwards later. While you're making up your mind, you'll still be giving that 10%!
Sure. But 10% is what 'tithe' means. Tweak to suit.
Think of spending $70k in Haiti (for example) as investing in the Society of Haiti, Inc.: what level of the problem would you like to address? Buying food will help people eat right now, but will not solve their long-term problem (unless it's truly just short-term). On the other hand, long-term thinking is unhelpful if they die of starvation first, so you need both. You could also invest through an organization that teaches Haitians skills that let them earn more than subsistence farming would. You could invest through an organization that (re)built homes and buildings. You could invest through an organization that drills wells to provide clean water. In a discussion a few weeks ago on Haiti here, one post compared the Dominican Republic and Haiti and noticed that Haitians were unwilling to learn (to overly summarize) and insisted on patterns of belief and thinking that keep them in poverty; you can invest through an organization that attempts to change culture. You could use the money to take six months off work (theoretically speaking) and volunteer in Haiti personally.
I think you'll be happier about your decision if you are investing in an area you really feel benefits, e.g. Haitians. I also think you'll be happier about the decision if you decide how much money you want to invest, rather than doing it out of guilt or from a reason-based ideological imperative.
I think you'll be happier about your decision if you are investing in an area you really feel benefits, e.g. Haitians. I also think you'll be happier about the decision if you decide how much money you want to invest, rather than doing it out of guilt or from a reason-based ideological imperative.
I'm not a fan of the charity tourism thing. Unless I have some special skill that's in demand in the area, I'm literally taking somebody else's (probably low-wage) job and doing it for free. I'm sure I'd feel good about it, but I'm not optimizing for my emotional fulfillment.
Certainly the selection of charity is a huge issue and is worthy of careful thought and research, but I think a bigger issue to me is how much to donate.
I already live beneath my means, but I could go a lot lower. I could get a roommate, I could get a cheaper place. I could work more hours at a second job.
Especially as I approach the one percenter territory, the degrees of freedom between living like a king and a pauper seem daunting.
Certainly the selection of charity is a huge issue and is worthy of careful thought and research, but I think a bigger issue to me is how much to donate.
I already live beneath my means, but I could go a lot lower. I could get a roommate, I could get a cheaper place. I could work more hours at a second job.
Especially as I approach the one percenter territory, the degrees of freedom between living like a king and a pauper seem daunting.
Unknown people in far away countries don't matter at all. Might as well put the money on fire, the outcome would be about the same.
There's probably enough people in your local community that need help of some sort where you could make an actual difference.
There's probably enough people in your local community that need help of some sort where you could make an actual difference.
What goes wrong in ones life to end up with a mindset like this.
If what you say is true, then you too very much don't matter at all, and the billionaires should quickly exterminate you as you're simply a waste of the planets finite resource of which they require.
If what you say is true, then you too very much don't matter at all, and the billionaires should quickly exterminate you as you're simply a waste of the planets finite resource of which they require.
"Unknown people in far away countries don't matter at all."
Citation needed.
Citation needed.
Funny how Peter Singer condemns comfort while living comfortably enough to have the time to write and publish a dozen books [1]. That time could've really helped a lot of people. Wonder what his thoughts on hypocrisy are.
For me, other people's problems aren't my problem. If I won a billion dollars I'd probably donate to things generously out of mild interest in trying to make the world more to my liking, but that's about it. Not my fault if others are suffering, nor is it my fault if I get lucky some day.
In my experience I've found that the more of a martyr someone tries to be, having a boat and trying to save others from drowning, the more they end up just being another body in the water, leaving the world worse off than if they had helped less.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Singer#Publications
For me, other people's problems aren't my problem. If I won a billion dollars I'd probably donate to things generously out of mild interest in trying to make the world more to my liking, but that's about it. Not my fault if others are suffering, nor is it my fault if I get lucky some day.
In my experience I've found that the more of a martyr someone tries to be, having a boat and trying to save others from drowning, the more they end up just being another body in the water, leaving the world worse off than if they had helped less.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Singer#Publications
He donates about 30% of his income. He freely admits he still lives comfortably. Would you have a higher opinion of him if he didn't donate any money instead of "only" 30%?
Peter Singer doesn't claim to be a martyr. I'm not sure where you get that. He is a philosopher/ethicist -- it is his job to think about moral issues and present his conclusions, right or wrong.
Peter Singer doesn't claim to be a martyr. I'm not sure where you get that. He is a philosopher/ethicist -- it is his job to think about moral issues and present his conclusions, right or wrong.
I would have a very high opinion of him if he lived by his own standards. It's not special or rare; there are plenty of Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, (etc) ascetics who renounce everything from income all the way to even clothing altogether.
Or if he acknowledged his own hypocrisy, like another philosopher (Diogenes? don't remember) who said something like "if you ask me directions, I'm not obligated to go down that way myself."
I made my comment because I find it worthless to reference someone who doesn't practice what they preach. You might as well quote Bezos or Zuck for some PR statement about how it's important to love your fellow man and donate. It's just cherry-picking a quote from somebody with status that already fits with your predetermined conclusions.
Or if he acknowledged his own hypocrisy, like another philosopher (Diogenes? don't remember) who said something like "if you ask me directions, I'm not obligated to go down that way myself."
I made my comment because I find it worthless to reference someone who doesn't practice what they preach. You might as well quote Bezos or Zuck for some PR statement about how it's important to love your fellow man and donate. It's just cherry-picking a quote from somebody with status that already fits with your predetermined conclusions.
In his book, "The Life You Can Save" (free to download as an audiobook or ebook from thelifeyoucansave.org) he does talk at length about the question of "how much is enough? how much is too much? what obligation do you have to your family and community vs helping distant strangers?"
In Chapter 10 of that book, "A Realistic Standard" he brings it all home. He has no problem recognizing that the philosophically perfect solution is unattainable for but a rare few, and that pragmatic solutions that fall short of it would still leave the worst off far better off than they are now.
> Hence in this chapter I propose a much easier target: roughly 5% of annual income for those who are financially comfortable, with less for those below that level, and significantly more for the very rich. My hope is that people will be convinced that they can and should give at these levels. I believe that doing so would be a first step toward restoring the ethical importance of giving as an essential component of a well-lived life. And if it is widely adopted, we’ll have more than enough money to end extreme poverty.
The corresponding website also has a calculator that has a progressive suggestion about what is a good target for someone of a certain income.
https://www.thelifeyoucansave.org/take-the-pledge/
He gives 30%. I don't think he is extremely rich, yet he gives at a rate 6 times what he suggests people who are comfortably well off should give. Do you still feel he is a hypocrite?
In Chapter 10 of that book, "A Realistic Standard" he brings it all home. He has no problem recognizing that the philosophically perfect solution is unattainable for but a rare few, and that pragmatic solutions that fall short of it would still leave the worst off far better off than they are now.
> Hence in this chapter I propose a much easier target: roughly 5% of annual income for those who are financially comfortable, with less for those below that level, and significantly more for the very rich. My hope is that people will be convinced that they can and should give at these levels. I believe that doing so would be a first step toward restoring the ethical importance of giving as an essential component of a well-lived life. And if it is widely adopted, we’ll have more than enough money to end extreme poverty.
The corresponding website also has a calculator that has a progressive suggestion about what is a good target for someone of a certain income.
https://www.thelifeyoucansave.org/take-the-pledge/
He gives 30%. I don't think he is extremely rich, yet he gives at a rate 6 times what he suggests people who are comfortably well off should give. Do you still feel he is a hypocrite?
> Do you still feel he is a hypocrite?
Unequivocally yes, because the bar he set was (apparently) saying that living in comfort beyond hunger and pain (or whatever the comment I responded to said) is "wrong". Random numbers don't change the fact that he's still living quite comfortably, which by his own standard is wrong. If he admitted to changing his views, or acknowledged his hypocrisy, then I'd think highly of him for his intellectual honesty. Otherwise I don't see much value in his points unless you happen to already agree with him, again, like the commenter I responded to originally
Unequivocally yes, because the bar he set was (apparently) saying that living in comfort beyond hunger and pain (or whatever the comment I responded to said) is "wrong". Random numbers don't change the fact that he's still living quite comfortably, which by his own standard is wrong. If he admitted to changing his views, or acknowledged his hypocrisy, then I'd think highly of him for his intellectual honesty. Otherwise I don't see much value in his points unless you happen to already agree with him, again, like the commenter I responded to originally
The comment you replied to originally has this quote:
"if you are living comfortably while others are hungry or dying from easily preventable diseases, and you are doing nothing about it, there is something wrong with your behavior."
You claim what Singer said was:
"living in comfort beyond hunger and pain is wrong"
You did "doing nothing is wrong" turn into living better than abject poverty is wrong?
"if you are living comfortably while others are hungry or dying from easily preventable diseases, and you are doing nothing about it, there is something wrong with your behavior."
You claim what Singer said was:
"living in comfort beyond hunger and pain is wrong"
You did "doing nothing is wrong" turn into living better than abject poverty is wrong?
>For me, other people's problems aren't my problem.
Just hope that in whatever society you live in, the people who do have problems don't get to a point in which they're so desperate they turn to violence against you, if you so have a lifestyle in which they feel you should be helping maintain said society.
Just hope that in whatever society you live in, the people who do have problems don't get to a point in which they're so desperate they turn to violence against you, if you so have a lifestyle in which they feel you should be helping maintain said society.
> if you so have a lifestyle in which they feel you should be helping maintain said society.
I don't understand this but protecting myself from other humans is part of my goals, just like making sure I'm never in serious danger from wild animals either.
I don't understand this but protecting myself from other humans is part of my goals, just like making sure I'm never in serious danger from wild animals either.
> For me, other people's problems aren't my problem.
If your luck runs out, we'll be here to help you.
If your luck runs out, we'll be here to help you.
I highly doubt that you, specifically, or any other commenter in this thread will do anything to help me if I run into trouble. And if one were willing to do something, I would hope that they'd choose to channel their help towards someone their know deserves it like a loved one; not me, who as far as you know could just make up a fake sob story to con selfless strangers on the internet.
Too late, we probably already paid for your K-12 education.
I'm not sure what your point is. I'm happy to benefit from others. If others are happy when I benefit from them then that's great for them, but I don't care much one way or another unless it's a loved one.
How Peter Singer lives is completely irrelevant to the argument. The argument stands on its own regardless of the provider.
Google "Ad Hominem".
Google "Ad Hominem".
Peter Singer himself is completely irrelevant. At the end of the day it's just an opinion.
The donor's dilemma: to whom when so many are needy? I'd suggest donating to a reputable agreggator, such as the United Way or Red Cross.
And there's the usual claim that many charities are super corrupt. Yes, there are lists of "good" charities. But you know.
If one is extraordinarily wealthy and never uses any of their resources to help others, that is rather fucked up in my opinion.
And I will even take a pretty broad view of “helping others”. But one should have put some real thought into it and sincerely believe in whatever approach they are taking.
Of course, you need to take of your own basic human needs as well. Which is sometimes easier said than done, even with immense wealth.
And I will even take a pretty broad view of “helping others”. But one should have put some real thought into it and sincerely believe in whatever approach they are taking.
Of course, you need to take of your own basic human needs as well. Which is sometimes easier said than done, even with immense wealth.
Why? What is the consequences of having a resource and not spending it?
It's just my opinion of how people should strive to live. I also would wager that the person sharing the resource will get great joy out of seeing others benefit from the sharing. A little bit of thoughtful sharing goes a long way, for both the giver and the receiver.
Why do I feel this way? That's a complicated question that I don't fully have the answer to. It probably has something to do with how humans are a social animal that has evolved to depend on each other for survival.
Why do I feel this way? That's a complicated question that I don't fully have the answer to. It probably has something to do with how humans are a social animal that has evolved to depend on each other for survival.
Donating is not necessarily an ethical "must", as it is entirely possible to continue being true to one's ethical principles while sitting on a huge stash of money, but from a philosophical perspective I'd say that "easy come, easy go" is as good as any a principle for releasing some of that cash towards those entities that align with one's aformentioned ethical principles. The money was neither earned nor owed for services rendered, yet there it sits, unused and inaccessible.
I had something similar happen, when my first successful company became successful. Many people who had been my friends or my wife's friends suddenly no longer saw me as me. They saw a wallet walking into the room. Not everyone acted that way, but so many did. I no longer associate with them. I have the utmost respect for those who were not changed by my privilege or fortune.
Way to humble brag about your winnings there fella.
I'd want to know did he at least help his parents be more comfortable in their final years. Has he enjoyed the money at all; taken some trips or had some experiences that only money can buy you?
It's fine if he didn't, but what's the point if you aren't enjoying it to some extent.
I'd want to know did he at least help his parents be more comfortable in their final years. Has he enjoyed the money at all; taken some trips or had some experiences that only money can buy you?
It's fine if he didn't, but what's the point if you aren't enjoying it to some extent.
I think you can enjoy money without spending it. It's nice to think "Hey, that's pretty cool, and I could buy it if I wanted to."
I would prefer a normal family and friends plus a comfortable $1m networth (am working towards it) over $55m plus not liking everyone in my circles. Money can only go so far, with $1m I can travel the world with my family or friend and share stories and experiences with them, and that is good enough for me..
I feel kind of dirty gossiping, but I also feel like Low-Key's story is a bit fishy. He's "the good child" who didn't tell his parents about lottery winnings that certainly would have been enough to, at the very least, give back to the people who raised him; however, he DID go out of his way to convince them to write his sister out of their will (we have no idea if the "horrible things" she supposedly did reasonably justified being disowned).
It's his money to do with what he wants, of course, but it feels as if we're hearing only one side, and that of a party who feels guilty and is looking for extrinsic support for their behavior. I'm trying to understand why someone who felt no qualms would post this publicly.
It's his money to do with what he wants, of course, but it feels as if we're hearing only one side, and that of a party who feels guilty and is looking for extrinsic support for their behavior. I'm trying to understand why someone who felt no qualms would post this publicly.
I made 25m with crypto over the last 10 years.
Never told anyone, not my friends, not my gf, not my family. Half a year ago I quit my job and now everyone thinks I am unemployed.
How to stop my friends sending me job offers for full-time php developement?
It's probably how you telegraph it to them. For example, you chose the username "brokeAF" ("broke as f***"), it could be a fun play with irony, but for someone who doesn't know about your wealth, it would just seem like you might be desperate for money.
I would suggest making up a white lie, like you found a gig to edit travel articles, so it's a remote/digital gig, and a benefit is you get discounted travel. If you don't travel, find something that works with whatever it is you do with your time.
I would suggest making up a white lie, like you found a gig to edit travel articles, so it's a remote/digital gig, and a benefit is you get discounted travel. If you don't travel, find something that works with whatever it is you do with your time.
You could say you work remotely as a consultant.
Say you punt crypto but imply you've only made a few $10k.
You could say you're working a modest remote job.
I have a thing where I made a "bunch" (not a lot for Westerners, but people in other countries can do it too) of money online and a couple blogs publicized it. It is not something I could hide as it is very public if you look correctly.
I get an absurd number of scam attempts, some of them very customized. Someone tried to fake a family stamp collection (I collect stamps). Also, random people who looked me up would introduce me when I met them with other people as "the guy who [did $thing to get $amount). Even people in North America. And we are talking about 30K ish here.
I get an absurd number of scam attempts, some of them very customized. Someone tried to fake a family stamp collection (I collect stamps). Also, random people who looked me up would introduce me when I met them with other people as "the guy who [did $thing to get $amount). Even people in North America. And we are talking about 30K ish here.
> You no doubt realize that money doesn’t change who you are. It can, however, change others’ perceptions of you. People project their own needs, resentments, insecurities and ambitions onto others. Compare and despair is an often unavoidable human trait.
This, so much. It doesn't even take that much money for some people to recategorize you in their head, once they figure out you have more than them.
This, so much. It doesn't even take that much money for some people to recategorize you in their head, once they figure out you have more than them.
Usually this would happen with lottery winners because ppl know it was made from stoke of pure luck so they feel giving them a little is fair. He’s right in not telling anyone. Most people know rich people but they don’t go up to them easily asking for hand outs because they know they don’t deserve their hard work.
Disclosing these details to a popular blog seems to go against principles that keep him anonymous. My curiosity wonders which of the details ($55M, California, “sister”) are actually true or skewed to sustain his anonymity.
Tip of the hat to him for going 10 years(!!!) without telling anyone he won the lottery.
Tip of the hat to him for going 10 years(!!!) without telling anyone he won the lottery.
> You no doubt realize that money doesn’t change who you are. It can, however, change others’ perceptions of you. People project their own needs, resentments, insecurities and ambitions onto others. Compare and despair is an often unavoidable human trait.
Hey, here's one for us in the bay area.
Hey, here's one for us in the bay area.
I made enough in bitcoin to buy myself a condo all in cash. I told friends it was a small inheritance.
If I had 55M, I would like to be able to tell my friends and family that I can help them with education/medical/bootstrapping expenses if they ever needed it. I’m not completely sure what everybody else is saving their money for if not that
Haha, from the article:
> We live in a culture where millions of people want to get rich quick — exhibit A: cryptocurrency, something that has no intrinsic value except as use as a form of exchange outside the banking system
I mean, a lot of people argue that is the value.
> We live in a culture where millions of people want to get rich quick — exhibit A: cryptocurrency, something that has no intrinsic value except as use as a form of exchange outside the banking system
I mean, a lot of people argue that is the value.
My father related to me a TV news story long ago about an Italian man who won the lottery. As the news was about to interview him, a man pushed him aside and announced "He's a good Communist Party member, and is going to give it to the Party!" The recipient in turn shoved him aside and said "No I'm not, I'm not a Communist anymore!"
I can't seem to find a solid statistical study on the lottery-winner murder rate. "That Reddit post" says it's 20X higher than within the general population, and elsewhere I've read that it's more than 30X. I know, [citation needed] and I mean that literally - anyone know of a study?
Of course plenty of anecdata is out there. A glance at any of these stories ought to be scary enough to at least give you pause:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelyn_Adams_(lottery_winner)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Carroll_(lottery_winne...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dampier
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavigueur_family
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Whittaker_(lottery_winner...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Shakespeare
You can also search for "Tiffani Hill" for an example from just 3 weeks ago.
It's not ALL bad news of course:
Keeps a low profile: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_R._Ginther
Donated most of it to charity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yodtong_Senanan
Used it to run for Congress: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gil_Cisneros
Also politics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Lohse
World's largest hummus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jawdat_Ibrahim
And yet... not all the good news is good either:
Went into... err... business: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Leyland
Of course plenty of anecdata is out there. A glance at any of these stories ought to be scary enough to at least give you pause:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelyn_Adams_(lottery_winner)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Carroll_(lottery_winne...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dampier
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavigueur_family
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Whittaker_(lottery_winner...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Shakespeare
You can also search for "Tiffani Hill" for an example from just 3 weeks ago.
It's not ALL bad news of course:
Keeps a low profile: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_R._Ginther
Donated most of it to charity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yodtong_Senanan
Used it to run for Congress: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gil_Cisneros
Also politics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Lohse
World's largest hummus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jawdat_Ibrahim
And yet... not all the good news is good either:
Went into... err... business: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Leyland
[deleted]
The point of this letter is to brag when the OP clearly cannot brag to the people he actually wants to.
Why not just vacation to a place where shallow people congregate (say... Las Vegas?) and stay in a ridiculously opulent hotel while renting a ridiculously fancy automobile? Stay a couple of weeks, eat fancy meals, receive the various plaudits of those who admire wealth, and when it all gets sickening one can just fly home. One would have to spend the extra money it takes to keep one's true identity confidential, but that's one of the many perks of wealth.
I didn't tell any of my friends, but did mistakenly tell one of my parents, who then felt it necessary to share this information with the rest of my family.
If you make a bunch of money: I would highly recommend not telling people. The will treat you differently (not in a good way).