PureOS – a pure Linux phone experience(puri.sm)
puri.sm
PureOS – a pure Linux phone experience
https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/pureos-mobile/
113 comments
I would suggest getting Pinephone is you want to dip your toes in the water. They are much cheaper, and generally take about a month to get from pine64 directly.
How are Purism and System76 related?
They both provide a means of running a user-first and privacy-first operating system on a laptop without supporting surveillance capitalists.
You can’t really buy a Dell or a MacBook, install Debian or some other *nix OS and make the same claim.
You can’t really buy a Dell or a MacBook, install Debian or some other *nix OS and make the same claim.
What I meant was: Why would System76 failing affect Purism (negatively)? I understand that there's some correlation as they're both targeting a similar audience, but it doesn't seem to me like they depend too much on one another.
Appreciate the clarification. I didn't know about the bootwork example, I meant reliant more generally.
System76 is one of the few Linux-first hardware companies. Dell and Lenovo do this but as an aside. System76 is 100% Linux.
If there were an entire ecosystem of Linux-first open hardware developers, Purism could simply provide a few hardware and software tweaks (ie hw switches for wifi) for enhanced privacy.
The problem is Purism is forced to bear the weight of being one of the few open hw/sw vendors AND all the additional anti-surveillance pieces too.
Curious if this explanation helped you.
System76 is one of the few Linux-first hardware companies. Dell and Lenovo do this but as an aside. System76 is 100% Linux.
If there were an entire ecosystem of Linux-first open hardware developers, Purism could simply provide a few hardware and software tweaks (ie hw switches for wifi) for enhanced privacy.
The problem is Purism is forced to bear the weight of being one of the few open hw/sw vendors AND all the additional anti-surveillance pieces too.
Curious if this explanation helped you.
It did. Thanks.
Purism is downstream to some of System76's coreboot work iirc
The difference is, most of System76’s laptops are barebones models from Clevo, whereas Purism designs its own laptops.
As a new System76 customer, I like their stepwise approach. It tells me they're thinking long term and not rushing. That's what I want to support is a longterm open hardware+software industry.
My understanding is they've started selling their own desktop models after selling white-labeled machines in the past. And that with laptops they are quite involved in the design process and are inching towards selling their own custom laptops.
If Purism fails it will likely be because they did too much from scratch. Taking on hardware and software all at once is a recipe for disaster. It's super expensive.
My understanding is they've started selling their own desktop models after selling white-labeled machines in the past. And that with laptops they are quite involved in the design process and are inching towards selling their own custom laptops.
If Purism fails it will likely be because they did too much from scratch. Taking on hardware and software all at once is a recipe for disaster. It's super expensive.
Keep in mind that both Purism and System76 still use proprietary CPUs (at least) so their machines are not completely open. There is a backdoor in every Intel and AMD chip that has full control over your computer. If you want 100% open hardware, there is https://www.raptorcs.com/.
I believe both these companies go to lengths to disable Intel ME & co (where possible). Raptor is a cool option if you have the money and want a desktop approach, but if you're after a laptop you're ultimately playing the game of "how much can I deal with binary blobs and proprietary bits".
Hell, for Purism's laptops it's not uncommon for people to shove in a different wifi card to get modern speeds - the card they use is used for being able to run with only open source drivers, which are old at this point.
Hell, for Purism's laptops it's not uncommon for people to shove in a different wifi card to get modern speeds - the card they use is used for being able to run with only open source drivers, which are old at this point.
Yes… the wireless card on the Librem 15 has given me some grief due to sticky roaming. I’ll have to look into this!
Good to know about this, had not heard of Raptor Computing Systems.
The complete open hardware model seems to require DIY chip fabrication at some level as a backstop. Will look for more opportunities to encourage this.
I wonder if System76 has considered Raptor processors for their desktops. What is their roadmap towards more open hardware? Here goes my first recommendation to their customer support. I would consider a mini-desktop with Talos by System76 even though I'm primarily a laptop user.
The complete open hardware model seems to require DIY chip fabrication at some level as a backstop. Will look for more opportunities to encourage this.
I wonder if System76 has considered Raptor processors for their desktops. What is their roadmap towards more open hardware? Here goes my first recommendation to their customer support. I would consider a mini-desktop with Talos by System76 even though I'm primarily a laptop user.
Intel ME is apparently disabled and not connected to the network interface in the Librem 13/15 if I remember correctly.
Disabled and neutralized [0], but there are still some blobs in it [1].
[0] https://puri.sm/projects/coreboot/
[1] https://puri.sm/learn/software-freedom-in-perspective/
[0] https://puri.sm/projects/coreboot/
[1] https://puri.sm/learn/software-freedom-in-perspective/
You can buy a Dell with Ubuntu already installed...
No longer available and was only ever limited distribution AFAIK. Also, their hardware has a habit of dying suddenly. For non-free vendors I recommend replacing Windows on current-era Lenovo laptop hardware, AFAIK so far everything just works out of the box.
...You can order it right now on their site. Admittedly, it takes digging through their similar but old listings.
https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-notebo...
https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-notebo...
There is one Dell laptop you can buy with Ubuntu: Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition [1]
Linux is a side project for Dell at best.
[1] https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-notebo... edit to add dell link
Linux is a side project for Dell at best.
[1] https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-notebo... edit to add dell link
Several of their business PCs support linux. https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/overview/cp/linuxsystem...
I don't even see that XPS available on dell.com anymore.
Search engines also seem to have trouble finding it. It turns up only when I enter "dell xps 13 developer edition":
https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-notebo...
Of the two people I know who ordered one, 0 have been delivered.
I'm well into worried this is another eve laptop / failed to deliver a real product situation.
So even if they are not sold out, Purism is not getting any money from me until I hear of delivered products to people I know.
I'm well into worried this is another eve laptop / failed to deliver a real product situation.
So even if they are not sold out, Purism is not getting any money from me until I hear of delivered products to people I know.
I am still waiting on my Librem 5 phone (since April 2020). However, I've had my Librem 15 laptop (same order date) since June 2020. They are an actual existing company that has shipped a lot of real actual laptops to people. It sucks that they're taking so long to deliver the Librem 5 phone.
That's good to hear, I don't know anyone who ordered the laptop so it's something to hear people online are receiving their products.
My friend received his, so it's not exactly pure vaporware.
But it's also not usable enough to be his daily driver either AIUI.
But it's also not usable enough to be his daily driver either AIUI.
I have fairly minimal needs, mostly basic mapping, calls, a Matrix client, and a web browser. I know that's pretty basic, even for ~2011.
That said, I'm using (and have been using) my Community Edition Pinephone as a daily driver for a couple weeks now. It's not impossible, it just varies based on what ones individual needs actually are :)
That said, I'm using (and have been using) my Community Edition Pinephone as a daily driver for a couple weeks now. It's not impossible, it just varies based on what ones individual needs actually are :)
Congrats on the System76 laptop! I'm excited for you. My advice would be to keep Pop OS in place at least until you're feeling confident. It's a good distro that you can use forever, but part of the fun of being a Linux user is freedom to explore and try things.
Do you have a community/destination to go for help if/when you need it? I would imagine you shouldn't need much unless you like to leave the beaten path, but it's always good to have some idea.
Do you have a community/destination to go for help if/when you need it? I would imagine you shouldn't need much unless you like to leave the beaten path, but it's always good to have some idea.
Appreciate the encouragement! I'm planning to pipe all feedback and expectations to System76 directly. I know what I bought likely isn't as good as my Mac from a look and feel standpoint. The Linux community seems incredible, and I'm looking for opportunities to pay money to do my part to push it.
I switched to System76 last year from being on a mac for about 15 years. I knew that there would be some things which would be lower quality (speakers, webcam, mic, trackpad, screen) but found a couple of things:
1/ my machine is way faster and lasts way longer; 2/ I have had really great support from System76 (esp. compared to Apple -- they helped me debug a hardware problem and then I just ordered a new card and popped it in myself); 3/ I actually don't mind the quality degradation compared to the massive improvement in my day-to-day experience.
I'm an Arch user (/fanatic -- aren't we all?), YMMV.
1/ my machine is way faster and lasts way longer; 2/ I have had really great support from System76 (esp. compared to Apple -- they helped me debug a hardware problem and then I just ordered a new card and popped it in myself); 3/ I actually don't mind the quality degradation compared to the massive improvement in my day-to-day experience.
I'm an Arch user (/fanatic -- aren't we all?), YMMV.
> but part of the fun of being a Linux user is freedom to explore and try things [from poster freedomben]
Make yourself a few virtual machines for that, initially...
Then try loading systems on the laptop from a USB Mass Storage Device (meaning, the non destructive way, without writing to the disk).
Make yourself a few virtual machines for that, initially...
Then try loading systems on the laptop from a USB Mass Storage Device (meaning, the non destructive way, without writing to the disk).
I highly recommend you adjust your perspective. Look for the positives not the negatives.
Isn't as easy to use as your Mac for some things, sure, but to start out thinking it isn't as good means you'll look for the things that are flawed instead of noticing the things that are amazing.
I've used Linux as a daily driver since 2016, yes there are things that would be easier if I just owned a Mac - somewhat ironically that includes Microsoft Office - but there are many things that are just amazing on Linux.
The ability to pipe audio from one program into another, or quickly create a virtual audio device that combines two get a lot of use from me on the unending stream of video calls.
The fact my home directory contains all my configs in plain test making it easy for me to have the same custom setup across 3 different computers (and all nicely versioned in git).
How about the fact that while I love a keyboard centric tiling window manager (i3wm) when my wife or son log in they get a KDE or Gnome desktop that is as familiar to them as their existing Window's computers.
Isn't as easy to use as your Mac for some things, sure, but to start out thinking it isn't as good means you'll look for the things that are flawed instead of noticing the things that are amazing.
I've used Linux as a daily driver since 2016, yes there are things that would be easier if I just owned a Mac - somewhat ironically that includes Microsoft Office - but there are many things that are just amazing on Linux.
The ability to pipe audio from one program into another, or quickly create a virtual audio device that combines two get a lot of use from me on the unending stream of video calls.
The fact my home directory contains all my configs in plain test making it easy for me to have the same custom setup across 3 different computers (and all nicely versioned in git).
How about the fact that while I love a keyboard centric tiling window manager (i3wm) when my wife or son log in they get a KDE or Gnome desktop that is as familiar to them as their existing Window's computers.
Good framing! I'll look for what's better not what's missing:
- I love that the laptop is user upgradable for RAM and drives.
- I love that I'm supporting a positive open hardware/software future
edit: just realized I can play Steam games natively! And also have a built in SD card slot.
edit: just realized I can play Steam games natively! And also have a built in SD card slot.
Also have a look at the unixporn subreddit. You'll find a lot of inspiration for beautiful and functional desktops that will consume all your time if you're not careful. But in a fun way.
> I know what I bought likely isn't as good as my Mac.
It's probably moreso the hardware that will bug you, not the software - Linux on System76 machines is probably the closest to "it actually just works" that I've seen and it's super cool, but at the end of the day it's still rebranded Clevo shells.
I like their desktop towers and I remain hopeful they can do their own laptop one day.
It's probably moreso the hardware that will bug you, not the software - Linux on System76 machines is probably the closest to "it actually just works" that I've seen and it's super cool, but at the end of the day it's still rebranded Clevo shells.
I like their desktop towers and I remain hopeful they can do their own laptop one day.
Appreciate the advice on this. Wonder if there's any hardware extras I can purchase that will ease the pain. Skins, adapters, dongles etc.
"Backordered" is something of an understatement. I placed my order in February 2018 and still haven't received it.
Yeah I had no issues with shipping my Librem 15 laptop, it was only a few weeks. The phone however I opted for the Evergreen release of the Librem 5 hoping to get something a little more polished. I’ve been waiting since summer 2019. It seems they’ve been having issues with manufacturing, possibly due to small order sizes plus semiconductor shortages plus COVID.
I think the reason system76 has less issues is that it isn’t custom silicon. I’m not sure about Pine but perhaps it’s the same case?
The Librem 15 is a decent laptop and is very serviceable / easy to repair but for the price it’s definitely not as good as the build quality of a Dell XPS for example.
I really like the idea of a quality open source phone (hardware and software) that isn’t sold by surveillance capitalists, which is why I support them but I still don’t know if I’ll use it as a daily driver.
I think the reason system76 has less issues is that it isn’t custom silicon. I’m not sure about Pine but perhaps it’s the same case?
The Librem 15 is a decent laptop and is very serviceable / easy to repair but for the price it’s definitely not as good as the build quality of a Dell XPS for example.
I really like the idea of a quality open source phone (hardware and software) that isn’t sold by surveillance capitalists, which is why I support them but I still don’t know if I’ll use it as a daily driver.
Oh wow! I had no idea. That's wild. Check out System76 for other Linux-first options.
Something that I would offer that, though Purism does advertise, I do wish they would hit it home more, they give a lot to the FOSS community. No really, they give back A LOT.
- Phosh, their phone shell, it being worked into upstream GNOME, and libhandy, which they started, is in upstream gtk4. GNOME Calls used to be a Purism app, now it is a GNOME app being maintained primarily by Purism.
- Several of their full time staff are Debian Maintainers and Debian Developers. One of the full time staff is a Mobian Developer and is very active in maintaining/developing Mobian.
- Purism has made a lot of effort to ensure that their applications and framework is available to the Pinephone, and to the greater community. Purism's work has helped advanced the Pinephone many times over.
- Several Purism employees are active in the Pinephone community, and help out not only the devs, but users who need help!
- For those that know my work (I have been working on MMS and VVM for the Pinephone/Librem 5), the Purism developers took a lot of time to help and mentor me so that I could get these features out there. They simply did not have to do that, but they did. I simply do not think those features would be available at all if it weren't for their help. (To those devs, I won't name you as I don't know if you want to be named, but you know who you are, You have my sincere gratitude.)
- Their Coreboot efforts has enabled others to port coreboot to other laptops. Here is one example: https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/50924.html?thread=1900524
These are just examples I am exposed to and can readily give off the top of my head.
To me, a company that does that sort of work, I do think they are sincere in the fact that they have supply chain troubles, which is why the Librem 5 has taken so long to get into users hands.
Also, I see that $799 price tag as not only buying the phone, but also paying the developers who do all of the wonderful things that I outlined above. As much as I like the Pinephone, the $150 you pay is for just that, the phone. Most of the software ecosystem you see from the Pinephone comes from unpaid volunteers (such as myself). I'm not saying that is a bad thing, I actually think having such a cheap phone is great! But I don't think a lot of folks have these things in mind when they see the difference in price.
And before it's asked, yes, my Librem 5 has shipped, I should get the package early next week.
- Phosh, their phone shell, it being worked into upstream GNOME, and libhandy, which they started, is in upstream gtk4. GNOME Calls used to be a Purism app, now it is a GNOME app being maintained primarily by Purism.
- Several of their full time staff are Debian Maintainers and Debian Developers. One of the full time staff is a Mobian Developer and is very active in maintaining/developing Mobian.
- Purism has made a lot of effort to ensure that their applications and framework is available to the Pinephone, and to the greater community. Purism's work has helped advanced the Pinephone many times over.
- Several Purism employees are active in the Pinephone community, and help out not only the devs, but users who need help!
- For those that know my work (I have been working on MMS and VVM for the Pinephone/Librem 5), the Purism developers took a lot of time to help and mentor me so that I could get these features out there. They simply did not have to do that, but they did. I simply do not think those features would be available at all if it weren't for their help. (To those devs, I won't name you as I don't know if you want to be named, but you know who you are, You have my sincere gratitude.)
- Their Coreboot efforts has enabled others to port coreboot to other laptops. Here is one example: https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/50924.html?thread=1900524
These are just examples I am exposed to and can readily give off the top of my head.
To me, a company that does that sort of work, I do think they are sincere in the fact that they have supply chain troubles, which is why the Librem 5 has taken so long to get into users hands.
Also, I see that $799 price tag as not only buying the phone, but also paying the developers who do all of the wonderful things that I outlined above. As much as I like the Pinephone, the $150 you pay is for just that, the phone. Most of the software ecosystem you see from the Pinephone comes from unpaid volunteers (such as myself). I'm not saying that is a bad thing, I actually think having such a cheap phone is great! But I don't think a lot of folks have these things in mind when they see the difference in price.
And before it's asked, yes, my Librem 5 has shipped, I should get the package early next week.
This looks very interesting. However, it does put into context how much value operational scale brings:
- The Librem 5 specs out in the ballpark of the 2016 iPhone 7 Plus.
- My goodness it's expensive. Similarly-specced iPhones still on the market are in the $300 range.
Obviously kill switches etc. are worth some money, but it's still surprising to see the magnitude of the value differential.
I'm always going to root for more competition in the market, so I hope this does well. But I am baffled at who the target market is. "Is okay with outdated phone but willing to pay 3x for it" would seem to be a very small market.
- The Librem 5 specs out in the ballpark of the 2016 iPhone 7 Plus.
- My goodness it's expensive. Similarly-specced iPhones still on the market are in the $300 range.
Obviously kill switches etc. are worth some money, but it's still surprising to see the magnitude of the value differential.
I'm always going to root for more competition in the market, so I hope this does well. But I am baffled at who the target market is. "Is okay with outdated phone but willing to pay 3x for it" would seem to be a very small market.
You are buying into the ideology/promise/cause. Is like buying a $200 poster, just because it has your favorite singer/politician/influencer/... on it.
Maybe. But you're also financing the development of free software that is used not only by Purism but other companies and FOSS groups.
> Obviously kill switches etc. are worth some money
It's much more than just kill switches:
https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...
It's much more than just kill switches:
https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...
Hence the "etc." in my comment.
But the product page on the website (not the community wiki, which is not linked from the product page) leads with the low specs and the next feature is kill switches. I didn't make the choice of how to position the product.
But the product page on the website (not the community wiki, which is not linked from the product page) leads with the low specs and the next feature is kill switches. I didn't make the choice of how to position the product.
If you want an actual (non-Android) Linux phone experience, there's only one that's actually shipping:
https://pine64.com/product/pinephone-beta-edition-with-conve...
https://pine64.com/product/pinephone-beta-edition-with-conve...
But note that it's significantly less performant than Librem 5: https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-p....
The thing is, neither of these devices is a usable daily driver yet for people outside of fanatics (and I don't say this with negativity - fanaticism is probably what builds these products, or sub your term here, e.g devoted).
If you're looking to dabble and write apps to contribute to the ecosystem, the PinePhone is arguably a steal. I grabbed one over the Librem 5 mostly due to price and availability.
If you're looking to dabble and write apps to contribute to the ecosystem, the PinePhone is arguably a steal. I grabbed one over the Librem 5 mostly due to price and availability.
True, but from $899 to > $2,000, it's also at least 4.5 times as expensive (!!!) as $199 for the PinePhone.
And, it exists today and runs an Arch Linux derivative like the SteamDeck.
As they say in the old country, a device in the hand is worth two in the bush.
And, it exists today and runs an Arch Linux derivative like the SteamDeck.
As they say in the old country, a device in the hand is worth two in the bush.
My PinePhone runs significantly faster than my Librem 5, on account of my Librem 5 not existing - even after being part of the original kickstarter-esq funding.
I am very curious about Linux phones and getting away from Android (Using Graphene OS RN). But my experience weren't very satisfying.
Could someone give me a quick overview or link to different Linux based OS for smartphones?
How is this one different from Sailfish?
Happy to hear from you! :-)
Could someone give me a quick overview or link to different Linux based OS for smartphones?
How is this one different from Sailfish?
Happy to hear from you! :-)
https://forums.puri.sm/t/comparing-specs-of-upcoming-linux-p...
Sailfish is proprietary, not FLOSS.
Sailfish is proprietary, not FLOSS.
Ah nice, short and concise and the link looks like what wanted, perfect
I have a few questions, stuff I couldn’t find out about on the web site. Does the USB-C port drive an external monitor supporting a Linux desktop? Will people buy the “all USA parts” version, given that it is more than twice as expensive?
Anyway, a great project.
Anyway, a great project.
> Does the USB-C port drive an external monitor supporting a Linux desktop
Yes, they call it "convergence": https://puri.sm/posts/mobile-desktop-convergence/.
> Will people buy the “all USA parts” version, given that it is more than twice as expensive?
Some people reported receiving their Librem 5 USA, so probably yes. See also: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque....
Yes, they call it "convergence": https://puri.sm/posts/mobile-desktop-convergence/.
> Will people buy the “all USA parts” version, given that it is more than twice as expensive?
Some people reported receiving their Librem 5 USA, so probably yes. See also: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque....
Thanks!, the mobile/desktop/convergence is what I was thinking of. The linked article says that it is still under development, but in the future that is what I am looking forward to: a powerful pocket device that can plug into a monitor/keyboard/mouse in my study, into a whole wall display in our living room, and public I/O devices in libraries, offices, malls, friends' homes, etc. One can dream, right?
There is another great alternative for the longer term future: compute would be everywhere as well as public I/O devices for user interaction. Wherever you are, you could be recognized and your personal environment would be right there.
Pardon me for going far-afield here, but I am a fan of Gibson's cyberpunk sci-fi future, and I enjoy imagining what the combination of tech/society/governance/etc. will be.
There is another great alternative for the longer term future: compute would be everywhere as well as public I/O devices for user interaction. Wherever you are, you could be recognized and your personal environment would be right there.
Pardon me for going far-afield here, but I am a fan of Gibson's cyberpunk sci-fi future, and I enjoy imagining what the combination of tech/society/governance/etc. will be.
> The linked article says that it is still under development, but in the future that is what I am looking forward to: a powerful pocket device that can plug into a monitor/keyboard/mouse in my study, into a whole wall display in our living room, and public I/O devices in libraries, offices, malls, friends' homes, etc. One can dream, right?
Well, according to many articles [0] and videos, this is practically a reality already. Also confirmed by people not affiliated with Purism [1].
[0] https://puri.sm/posts/my-first-week-of-librem-5-convergence/
[1] https://social.librem.one/tags/convergence.
Well, according to many articles [0] and videos, this is practically a reality already. Also confirmed by people not affiliated with Purism [1].
[0] https://puri.sm/posts/my-first-week-of-librem-5-convergence/
[1] https://social.librem.one/tags/convergence.
From the page:
> It is the only smartphone on the market today to ship with a fully-free and auditable operating system, from the ground up, that is created in your best interest instead of corporations’ bottom lines. It is the only project with a bona fide community instead of a “Big Corp” governance model.
Was this written before the PinePhone or does the PinePhone not count somehow?
> It is the only smartphone on the market today to ship with a fully-free and auditable operating system, from the ground up, that is created in your best interest instead of corporations’ bottom lines. It is the only project with a bona fide community instead of a “Big Corp” governance model.
Was this written before the PinePhone or does the PinePhone not count somehow?
Pinephone requires two binary blobs for the WiFi/Bluetooth in Linux kernel, and cannot run FSF-endorsed distros without adding those blobs. Concerning the community, you might be right, although Librem 5 was probably first here (announced in 2017).
>Pinephone requires two binary blobs for the WiFi/Bluetooth [...]
One binary blob for the WiFi/Bluetooth. The other binary blob is for the modem, for which an alternative OSS firmware has been in development for some time. There's also a third blob for the camera autofocus firmware.
>[...] in Linux kernel, [...]
All three blobs are firmware, not drivers. There are no blobs in the kernel. It's identical to the Librem 5 in this regard; the Librem 5 also has firmware blobs for WiFi/Bluetooth, modem, and some others, but no blob drivers.
>[...] and cannot run FSF-endorsed distros without adding those blobs.
You can disable the WiFi/Bluetooth, modem, and camera with hardware switches. Given that, and that the RYF criteria allows firmware blobs for auxiliary chips, I'm not sure why it would apply differently to the Librem 5 vs the PinePhone.
One binary blob for the WiFi/Bluetooth. The other binary blob is for the modem, for which an alternative OSS firmware has been in development for some time. There's also a third blob for the camera autofocus firmware.
>[...] in Linux kernel, [...]
All three blobs are firmware, not drivers. There are no blobs in the kernel. It's identical to the Librem 5 in this regard; the Librem 5 also has firmware blobs for WiFi/Bluetooth, modem, and some others, but no blob drivers.
>[...] and cannot run FSF-endorsed distros without adding those blobs.
You can disable the WiFi/Bluetooth, modem, and camera with hardware switches. Given that, and that the RYF criteria allows firmware blobs for auxiliary chips, I'm not sure why it would apply differently to the Librem 5 vs the PinePhone.
> All three blobs are firmware, not drivers. There are no blobs in the kernel.
Blobs means proprietary pieces of software. Firmware is software, too, it just runs not on the main CPU. If it resides in the OS, then the OS has "binary blobs", according to the definition by FSF. Librem 5 also has blobs, but they are not in the OS. They reside in the WiFi card and in the modem, both of which are replaceable pieces of hardware, not really parts of the the phone itself.
Blobs means proprietary pieces of software. Firmware is software, too, it just runs not on the main CPU. If it resides in the OS, then the OS has "binary blobs", according to the definition by FSF. Librem 5 also has blobs, but they are not in the OS. They reside in the WiFi card and in the modem, both of which are replaceable pieces of hardware, not really parts of the the phone itself.
Also, does it count as being on the market when you haven't delivered devices "pre-ordered" over 2 years ago?
I'm desperate to get off of the iPhone / Android ecosystem. The problem for me is that I live in a weird spot and no cell reception comes to my house. I bought a Pinephone, but it doesn't support WiFi calling... Is there an open source phone like this that supports WiFi calling? I used to own a femtocell back in the 3g days... but I'm on an MVNO who doesn't offer one, and WiFi calling is the only way I can get any service at my house. I have a landline, but it gets so many junk phone calls, I'm about to disconnect it completely... Maybe I need an LTE repeater with a big ass antenna mounted high above my house. Seems like the only option I have, if those even exist.
> open source phone like this that supports WiFi calling
Even on Android, WiFi Calling is done via a proprietary library, AOSP doesn't support it. As of now, no one has attempted to RE the protocol, so no open source solution exists.
Even on Android, WiFi Calling is done via a proprietary library, AOSP doesn't support it. As of now, no one has attempted to RE the protocol, so no open source solution exists.
You can get Chinese built repeaters for $100-200 I know of them as a friend was also thinking of installing one but he moved to another city so can't recommend a brand or anything
Big Ouch on that 2k phone
Only the made-in-USA version costs $2k.
Yeah, the other one cost 900. Not necessarily cheap.
https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-5/
https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-5/
if the bill can be flatten let's make it so
Yeah, I wonder why they didn't prioritize lowering the cost to make it more accessible to people? This project can only take of if lots of people start using the phone. I doubt a few hundreds of folks, mostly in first world countries, with a decently high income, would be a large enough crowd for this project's long time success, I hope they become successful. The laptop in the other hand, is decently priced, for what it offers.
Absolutely bonkers pricing. Looks like the niche market is die-hard people on FAANG engineer salaries.
Or journalists, or politicians, or dissidents... anyone whose livelihood depends on privacy.
i had that same confusion! they should clarify that on their site.
I'm always very nervous about replacing my phone with something not main stream.
My laptop is fine to tinker with, but I don't want some issue coming up making me unable to use my phone in a situation where I'd need it.
My laptop is fine to tinker with, but I don't want some issue coming up making me unable to use my phone in a situation where I'd need it.
Curious, is there a way to run android apps (either natively or in a vm)?
Is the expected Linus mobile os experience more of a mini laptop with a touchscreen or are they really going after the Android/iOS feel?
The latter. You can look up videos of "phosh" to see what it looks like.
If you want a mini-laptop OS because you always run it docked or something, you're of course free to use a desktop-first shell that provides that. Though the phone-first shells also support that already ("convergence").
If you want a mini-laptop OS because you always run it docked or something, you're of course free to use a desktop-first shell that provides that. Though the phone-first shells also support that already ("convergence").
The videos of 'phosh' one can see online are not that encouraging - the experience seems very sluggish and quite far from "daily driver" quality.
It depends on how old those videos are: https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-getting-faster-with-age/.
I'd love to buy Purism phone but their shipping delays seem insane.
Cool let me know when its available so I can buy one.
Consider supporting them with a preorder if you can. They have a hard time currently AFAIK.
180 day lead time with a warning about procurement delays doesn't instill a lot of confidence. Along with a $900 price tag seems a little too risky.
Is PureOS compatible with any other phone besides Librem?
Not itself, no - but Mobian is compatible with other similarly open phones (so basically the PinePhone and a few others) and runs essentially the same software: https://mobian-project.org/
For other Android phones there's Droidian which is downstream of Mobian; I've not used it myself though so can't speak to its current state: https://droidian.org/
For other Android phones there's Droidian which is downstream of Mobian; I've not used it myself though so can't speak to its current state: https://droidian.org/
Only smartphones which provide good, open documentation and specs can run alternative OSes. Pinephone is the only such smarptphone apart from Librem 5, and it can run PureOS: https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=9361.
And while I've yet to see anyone with a librem 5 other than journalists and youtubers my pinephone arrived last year when they said it would. It ain't perfect but its a real product.
Yes, they definitely have problems with the phone's supply chain: https://puri.sm/posts/the-ball-and-supply-chain/.
The only phone officially supported by PureOS is Librem 5. There were also people adapting it to PinePhone unofficially.
Back in March I was super excited to order the "shipping in June" librem 14 laptop. Contacted support, was told august 1st, no news.
I would stay clear of this company. They might have good intentions but clearly they suck at supply chain.
I would stay clear of this company. They might have good intentions but clearly they suck at supply chain.
The world sucks at supply chain right now.
Even with the best intentions and planning, lead times have been expanding faster than orders come in. Orders are being pushed back and cancelled by vendors, and parts are disappearing from distributors very quickly.
Even the huge players shipping millions of units (Apple [0], Toyota [1], Sony [2], Samsung [3]), who are usually able to order the manufacturers around (in what's really a "bank owns you" vs "you own the bank" situation), are having trouble building products. Why would you expect a low-volume manufacturer to be in any way capable of doing better?
[0] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/27/apples-iphone-hot-streak-wil...
[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58266794
[2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-15/sony-is-s...
[3] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-17/samsung-w...
Even with the best intentions and planning, lead times have been expanding faster than orders come in. Orders are being pushed back and cancelled by vendors, and parts are disappearing from distributors very quickly.
Even the huge players shipping millions of units (Apple [0], Toyota [1], Sony [2], Samsung [3]), who are usually able to order the manufacturers around (in what's really a "bank owns you" vs "you own the bank" situation), are having trouble building products. Why would you expect a low-volume manufacturer to be in any way capable of doing better?
[0] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/27/apples-iphone-hot-streak-wil...
[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58266794
[2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-15/sony-is-s...
[3] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-17/samsung-w...
Understood but you could expect a customer support to be candid about it.
They brushed me off with unpleasant tone + fake promises.
They brushed me off with unpleasant tone + fake promises.
Pine Phone (also a pure Linux phone experience) is delivering phones within three to four weeks. Purism has no excuse.
See here why they do have an excuse: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque....
"Purism could have avoided these delays by following the same model used by the PINE64 in designing the Pinephone by only using older components that already have good Linux support and launching with an existing mobile interface. If Purism had used the i.MX 6, the hardware would have been antiquated, but it could have avoided most of the problems it has encountered implementing the LCD screen, video out, cameras and power management. If Purism had used the i.MX 6 and Ubuntu Touch, it probably could have shipped in 2019, and avoided most of the delays, which have generated so much public criticism, but those would not have been good choices for the long-term future of the phone."
Note that "these delays" is referring to the time taken to develop the software for their choice of components, not sourcing the hardware of those components. The PinePhone doesn't have this problem not because of its choice of older components, but because Pine64 doesn't do any software and lets the community work it out, which it has.
That said, the problem of components shortage is real, which is why the PP's Beta Edition ships with identical hardware to the previous Community Edition but for needing to use a different, worse, magnetometer. ("Worse" because it has no driver in the mainline kernel yet so it can't be used.)
That said, the problem of components shortage is real, which is why the PP's Beta Edition ships with identical hardware to the previous Community Edition but for needing to use a different, worse, magnetometer. ("Worse" because it has no driver in the mainline kernel yet so it can't be used.)
We can't get anything electronic in a reasonable amount of time at a reasonable price right now, surely we could cut a major underdog a little slack.
Everyone "sucks at supply chain" today, even Apple [0] and Toyota [1].
[0] https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/04/28/apple-warns-of-ip...
[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58266794
By the way, many customers reported that they received their laptops on forums.
[0] https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/04/28/apple-warns-of-ip...
[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58266794
By the way, many customers reported that they received their laptops on forums.
I was looking for a certain GX-412TC based firewall mainboard a few days ago, so different hardware and different vendor: the delivery time was over 200 days.
It's not their fault, it's like that pretty much everywhere. Just try to buy a graphics card at 2019 prices; no way.
It's not their fault, it's like that pretty much everywhere. Just try to buy a graphics card at 2019 prices; no way.
PureOS is officially endorsed by the FSF [0], and it's the most popular one among the endorsed [1].
[0] https://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-adds-pureos-to-list-of-endorsed...
[1] https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=popularity
[0] https://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-adds-pureos-to-list-of-endorsed...
[1] https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=popularity
Is there any move towards a Linux-mobile equivalent of FlatPak, so that the same apps can be made to run on PureOS, Sailfish, Plasma Mobile, etc? It'd be in vendors' interest to collaborate on a common standard, as developers are going to find it a pain to have to target different distros, as has happened on desktop Linux. Given that it's a more or less brand new space, might as fix the problem before it becomes one.
There is, and it's called... well, Flatpak :)
Good - and there's legitimately consensus on using it in the various mobile os app stores?
https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Development_Environment/Wo...
> Linux-mobile equivalent
Librem 5 runs desktop GNU/Linux, so you don't need any equivalents really.
> Linux-mobile equivalent
Librem 5 runs desktop GNU/Linux, so you don't need any equivalents really.
My first step to switching off Apple is my laptop. I bought a System76 laptop. I also considered the Purism laptop. I'm a Linux newbie and went with System76, some explanation below. (Shipping times were also a factor in my decision)
Purism's challenge is they may be trying to solve a "2-miracles problem".
Miracle 1: open source hardware business
Miracle 2: privacy focused business
To the extent open source hw/sw SUPPORTS privacy, they're in alignment as a single miracle. But the alignment isn't perfect, it's all still so new. To put it another way, if Purism fails that doesn't affect System76 much. But if System76 fails that likely means a rough road ahead for Purism.
Those who can at all muster the courage and budget to buy Purism right now totally should. Lead the way where others cannot.