Ask HN: Founders of failed startups, what are you doing now?
Did you go back to a regular job? What was the transition like? Did you feel like your time was wasted or was your experience as a founder still valuable for what came after?
31 comments
As someone who has both founded a startup (and failed), as well as took 18 months to go overlanding -- and who now has a normal engineering job -- I found that interviewers were more impressed with the travel than the startup. The co-founder label still has some sort of negative connotation with certain interviewers. It seemed worse the larger the company was.
I had no problem finding my pick of companies to work for however.
The transition wasn't tough necessarily, but neither is the desk job very fulfilling. There's a sort of manifest destiny when you're building YOUR thing, and building anyone else's thing is just nowhere near the same -- regardless of the token scraps of RDUs or options or company outings they throw at ya. You're riding on the bus, not driving it. It just ain't the same.
Like the other poster, I would do it all over again as well.
I had no problem finding my pick of companies to work for however.
The transition wasn't tough necessarily, but neither is the desk job very fulfilling. There's a sort of manifest destiny when you're building YOUR thing, and building anyone else's thing is just nowhere near the same -- regardless of the token scraps of RDUs or options or company outings they throw at ya. You're riding on the bus, not driving it. It just ain't the same.
Like the other poster, I would do it all over again as well.
For the life of me, I can't figure out what RDUs mean. Help?
Also, I'm interested to know: Why do you think they were more impressed with the overlanding?
Also, I'm interested to know: Why do you think they were more impressed with the overlanding?
Likely a typo for "RSUs"
Sorry, yes, RDUs :)
Ok, that was confusing and no one seemed to care. Some Monty Python vibe here.
The interviewers may think you’ll be unhappy as a small fish in a big pond vs. running your own show.
I went from a 3 person startup doing low 6 figures in annual revenue to a startup in the same space that had just closed its series A.
I interviewed with FAANG’s and startups in nyc and the Bay Area. I felt like my experience was valued by most companies I interviewed with, to my surprise, and many others had similar stories to mine.
It felt like the right the step, like going to a version of my company that’d turned out (a lot) better. It’s been a great experience- went from senior dev to manager, and love doing both. Management allows me to wear a bunch of hats in a similar way I did as a founder, but with a safety net and much more support.
My experience as a founder was extremely valuable. It made me a much better engineer and a much better leader than I could’ve been if I hadn’t done my startup. Overall, my career trajectory is better than it would’ve been otherwise, barring some stroke of luck in the corporate world. I have no regrets.
It wasn’t all roses, though. For the first 18 months or so after we shut our startup down (and through my subsequent return to full time employment), I was hurting pretty bad, constantly thinking of what I could’ve done differently and still had many, many sleepless nights. It took those 18 months to really get it out of my system and move on.
I still itch for the next one.
I interviewed with FAANG’s and startups in nyc and the Bay Area. I felt like my experience was valued by most companies I interviewed with, to my surprise, and many others had similar stories to mine.
It felt like the right the step, like going to a version of my company that’d turned out (a lot) better. It’s been a great experience- went from senior dev to manager, and love doing both. Management allows me to wear a bunch of hats in a similar way I did as a founder, but with a safety net and much more support.
My experience as a founder was extremely valuable. It made me a much better engineer and a much better leader than I could’ve been if I hadn’t done my startup. Overall, my career trajectory is better than it would’ve been otherwise, barring some stroke of luck in the corporate world. I have no regrets.
It wasn’t all roses, though. For the first 18 months or so after we shut our startup down (and through my subsequent return to full time employment), I was hurting pretty bad, constantly thinking of what I could’ve done differently and still had many, many sleepless nights. It took those 18 months to really get it out of my system and move on.
I still itch for the next one.
> I was hurting pretty bad, constantly thinking of what I could’ve done differently and still had many, many sleepless nights. It took those 18 months to really get it out of my system and move on.
Thanks for this insight. I recently made the leap to quit my tech job to build a startup. I keep telling myself that if it doesn't work out (which is the statistically likely outcome) I can at least go back to another tech job. But tbh, I'd probably also be devastated for some time.
I guess if you had to do something differently for your next attempt, what would it be?
Thanks for this insight. I recently made the leap to quit my tech job to build a startup. I keep telling myself that if it doesn't work out (which is the statistically likely outcome) I can at least go back to another tech job. But tbh, I'd probably also be devastated for some time.
I guess if you had to do something differently for your next attempt, what would it be?
1. Start with a problem, not a solution. And validate that you can reach customers who will pay for your solution to solve their problem, before day 1.
2. Don’t pay attention or compare yourself to other startups/potential competition. No good comes of it.
3. Recognize how large a factor luck is. This means preparing for things to go wrong, but also accepting that factors beyond your control can hugely impact the trajectory of your business.
2. Don’t pay attention or compare yourself to other startups/potential competition. No good comes of it.
3. Recognize how large a factor luck is. This means preparing for things to go wrong, but also accepting that factors beyond your control can hugely impact the trajectory of your business.
Founded a startup with 2 co-founders, quickly found an investor, grew to 7 employees + 5-10 freelancers. Closed down 10 years ago.
Since then full-time software dev contractor, can't complain income wise. Apparently: Even running a page into the ground yields enough technological experience to make you interesting enough for other companies ;-)
Sometimes I felt the itch to try out a new venture with a friend. Some ideas including non-profit things. But quickly give up, because VCs are loaded with with requests, and those VCs that can shuffle free their calendar are not the ones you want to do business with.
YC never was an option because they demanded to move to California and (at least officially) little money.
Contracting delivers a very comfy cash-flow, but not really the fulfillment one might seek with a startup
Since then full-time software dev contractor, can't complain income wise. Apparently: Even running a page into the ground yields enough technological experience to make you interesting enough for other companies ;-)
Sometimes I felt the itch to try out a new venture with a friend. Some ideas including non-profit things. But quickly give up, because VCs are loaded with with requests, and those VCs that can shuffle free their calendar are not the ones you want to do business with.
YC never was an option because they demanded to move to California and (at least officially) little money.
Contracting delivers a very comfy cash-flow, but not really the fulfillment one might seek with a startup
Between '02 and '15 I was pioneering Automated Actor Replacement / Deep Fakes, but for streaming entertainment services advertising. I had a working system based on neural nets in key locations of a traditional VFX film pipeline, capable of global scale (125K 30-second video clips per hour, each with a unique person inserted as a key "actor".) Picture yourself in a pizza or car ad.
However, my tech being ready in '08 was in the middle of the global financial crisis. Plus, nobody ever heard of "automated actor replacement" back then, angel and VC investors simply did not believe it was possible. If they did, they wanted to pursue pornography, which I refused.
I went bankrupt. I ended up selling the global patents, which was an incredible achievement acquiring them in the first place. One of my technology providers was a facial recognition company that incorporated 3D reconstruction in their FR suite. So I went to work for them for about 7 years. I quit last spring, I guess a part of the great resignation. Far too many long hours, with no equity participation.
Currently, I enrolled in some graduate Machine Learning classes, and I am formally learning what I've been doing without the training for the last 7 years. I expect to be back in the market around the beginning of the new year, with a freshly minted formal understanding of the ML/DL aspects of the computer vision work I've been doing professionally for nearly a decade now.
However, my tech being ready in '08 was in the middle of the global financial crisis. Plus, nobody ever heard of "automated actor replacement" back then, angel and VC investors simply did not believe it was possible. If they did, they wanted to pursue pornography, which I refused.
I went bankrupt. I ended up selling the global patents, which was an incredible achievement acquiring them in the first place. One of my technology providers was a facial recognition company that incorporated 3D reconstruction in their FR suite. So I went to work for them for about 7 years. I quit last spring, I guess a part of the great resignation. Far too many long hours, with no equity participation.
Currently, I enrolled in some graduate Machine Learning classes, and I am formally learning what I've been doing without the training for the last 7 years. I expect to be back in the market around the beginning of the new year, with a freshly minted formal understanding of the ML/DL aspects of the computer vision work I've been doing professionally for nearly a decade now.
Is there a good way to contact you? Your account doesnt have an email.
Not really a failed startup but we had a disagreement between the founders and decided to split the company and I and another partner left. We fought over money and the company for a few months and eventually reached an agreement.
Since then I got a job, moved countries and am working on the next thing with my wife :)
It was an invaluable experience and I would do it all over again.
Since then I got a job, moved countries and am working on the next thing with my wife :)
It was an invaluable experience and I would do it all over again.
Thanks for sharing. Did you feel like it was hard to get a job after you left the startup? I guess it depends what stage and size your startup was at, but did you have any problems trying to leverage your experience as a founder with potential employers?
Not hard at all. We were 3 years in and we had around 20 employees by the time I left. I was the CTO and since we didn’t have a big development team, I still coded every day so I was sharper than ever and with more experience not only in technology but also with raising money, accounting, HR, sales, etc so I had multiple offers to choose from.
That experience was super useful for my next/current endeavor with my wife and also for my next job since I had to learn and grow a lot in terms of management, prioritization and dealing with lack of resources. Skills which are super valuable to companies and teams of all sizes.
When hiring, I’m biased towards ex-founders and people who tried to launch their own products. I believe that shipping something and asking for money for it is the ultimate proof that a developer can offer in terms of how far and how much they can do/learn so I always favor people who done something even if they failed. Launching a product/company requires tons of different skills which, as I said before, I believe are super valuable in addition to tech skills.
That experience was super useful for my next/current endeavor with my wife and also for my next job since I had to learn and grow a lot in terms of management, prioritization and dealing with lack of resources. Skills which are super valuable to companies and teams of all sizes.
When hiring, I’m biased towards ex-founders and people who tried to launch their own products. I believe that shipping something and asking for money for it is the ultimate proof that a developer can offer in terms of how far and how much they can do/learn so I always favor people who done something even if they failed. Launching a product/company requires tons of different skills which, as I said before, I believe are super valuable in addition to tech skills.
I wish "non-tech/well-rounded" were better valued or even understood in the mainstream. People mention them as cultural virtue-signals, but it's not part of any interview or screening I've been a part of, and I've done dozens in the last year.
I don't feel that "soft skills" are sought or even desired in an engineer -- I'm only ever asked about some certain framework or technique or algorithm (lol), not even tangential open-ended stuff like "hey how would you approach a customer complaining about X" or "How would you prioritize technical debt vs features in a product's lifecycle?" or, heck, even something fun and off the wall like "you've lost your wallet in a foreign country -- now what?"
I'm glad your startup experience was useful in your own search. Best of luck on your new endeavor! :)
I don't feel that "soft skills" are sought or even desired in an engineer -- I'm only ever asked about some certain framework or technique or algorithm (lol), not even tangential open-ended stuff like "hey how would you approach a customer complaining about X" or "How would you prioritize technical debt vs features in a product's lifecycle?" or, heck, even something fun and off the wall like "you've lost your wallet in a foreign country -- now what?"
I'm glad your startup experience was useful in your own search. Best of luck on your new endeavor! :)
> I wish "non-tech/well-rounded" were better valued or even understood in the mainstream. People mention them as cultural virtue-signals, but it's not part of any interview or screening I've been a part of, and I've done dozens in the last year.
> I don't feel that "soft skills" are sought or even desired in an engineer
An engineer who can communicate well will never be out of a job.
> I don't feel that "soft skills" are sought or even desired in an engineer
An engineer who can communicate well will never be out of a job.
If there is something I learned from politicians is that you should never respond to what was asked, but to what you wish was asked instead.
If you know what you are talking about you can still respond to "How would you prioritize technical debt" and offer way more than a direct technical answer. You have to take opportunity to "enhance" every question you are asked with information that portray you in a good light and directs the conversation towards where you think you can generate most value.
If you know what you are talking about you can still respond to "How would you prioritize technical debt" and offer way more than a direct technical answer. You have to take opportunity to "enhance" every question you are asked with information that portray you in a good light and directs the conversation towards where you think you can generate most value.
similar. except it wasn't months, we didn't reach an agreement, I got back to my country and it was not an invaluable experience.
Reflected on the experience, tried to figure out everything I could have done better, and then I started a new (startup) software project. I’m consulting a couple days a week to pay the bills.
How do you work for the couple of days? If you don't mind me asking.
Sorry, are you asking how to get part time gigs? Or what kind of work I’m doing? Or how to juggle part time with a new venture?
Not the person who asked, but I'm interested in the first two.
Oops, I missed a word. How do you find consulting work with that little of a time commitment?
Simply scope it as such.
Presuming you're working with your client directly and success is in measured in outcomes not hours, you get to craft exactly the engagement that works for both parties.
Presuming you're working with your client directly and success is in measured in outcomes not hours, you get to craft exactly the engagement that works for both parties.
That’s a good question. In my experience: most companies want to hire full time resources most of the time. Some tasks really are not compatible with part time work, e.g. anything with site-ops responsibilities.
Find a client that wants you bad enough to forgo their preference for full time, and make sure the work you’re doing allows for it.
It helps to be more senior and have a longer proven track record.
In one case I had a 6 month contract building internal tools for a large company. It was a very unpleasant job, but they really liked me. After the 6 months were up, they offered me a FTE position. I politely said I had other goals I wanted to pursue. I had no intention of continuing with them, but they were persistent and we were able to negotiate to two days a week.
In two other cases startups approached me and I was honest and said I liked them but I didn’t have 40 hours a week to devote to their project, and they were cool with part time.
Earlier in my career I also worked freelance gigs with variable hours, little projects or on-call. That wasn’t so great, haggling with clients, more overhead (billing, unpaid travel, etc.) —- a lot less money and more headaches.
Find a client that wants you bad enough to forgo their preference for full time, and make sure the work you’re doing allows for it.
It helps to be more senior and have a longer proven track record.
In one case I had a 6 month contract building internal tools for a large company. It was a very unpleasant job, but they really liked me. After the 6 months were up, they offered me a FTE position. I politely said I had other goals I wanted to pursue. I had no intention of continuing with them, but they were persistent and we were able to negotiate to two days a week.
In two other cases startups approached me and I was honest and said I liked them but I didn’t have 40 hours a week to devote to their project, and they were cool with part time.
Earlier in my career I also worked freelance gigs with variable hours, little projects or on-call. That wasn’t so great, haggling with clients, more overhead (billing, unpaid travel, etc.) —- a lot less money and more headaches.
really need this consulting too, got bills to pay
I still run the site which makes some side income. The income is enough to live in a developing country but then I moved to a developed country so I had to get a job.
I missed a billion product market back in 2014, here's what am doing now with our new product https://twitter.com/Tolulade_ato/status/1451164408588210180
The lesson made me a better founder, now am solving another problem- anomaly detection for companies.
The lesson made me a better founder, now am solving another problem- anomaly detection for companies.
Mobile apps startup almost a decade ago, for 2 years. Failed. Joined a FAANG company, initial months were depressing - narrow scope, cog in the wheel, shoddy culture.
On the plus side, the interviews were a breeze due to the depth I had built up on the tech side in my startup, and I had instant street-cred every time I talked to new coworkers.
Experience as a founder was very valuable due to the much bigger picture that I could see most of the time and easily switch my thinking hats from tech to product to business, and add value to most discussions, even with executives.
On the plus side, the interviews were a breeze due to the depth I had built up on the tech side in my startup, and I had instant street-cred every time I talked to new coworkers.
Experience as a founder was very valuable due to the much bigger picture that I could see most of the time and easily switch my thinking hats from tech to product to business, and add value to most discussions, even with executives.
Went back to the real world. Senior front end engineer to engineering manager at last job. Managing a team at DocuSign now.