Ask HN: Why there are no Android mini phones?
Although there are countless Android phone makers, there isn't a single one of them that makes compact phones. Sony was in the business for a while but it seems to lower the supply of the new models and mark them with super high prices.
That's very strange as there is clearly demand for smaller phones, shown by the iPhone mini. Apple offers an almost identical compact phone to it's regular model, but it seems that phone makers who usually copy Apple on everything, just skip this idea at all.
If anyone has thoughts on it or a compact model to recommend I'll be glad to hear.
181 comments
> there is clearly demand for smaller phones, shown by the iPhone mini
The iPhone mini might be a counter-example. The iPhone mini has sold poorly and it seems like Apple is unlikely to continue it when they redesign the form factor. They'll keep it around while they keep this form factor since they've already spent the money, but I doubt that we'll see an iPhone 15 mini (when they're likely to come out with a redesign based on their 3-year cadence).
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/02/09/iphone-12-mini-low-janu...
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/02/15/iphone-13-mini-expected...
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/05/iphone-12-mini-sales-la...
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/22/poor-iphone-12-mini-sal...
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/06/30/apple-ends-iphone-12-mi...
> it seems that phone makers who usually copy Apple on everything, just skip this idea at all
Making a smaller device is difficult. You still have to pack in the same guts, but you have less space to do it. This is particularly acute when it comes to battery.
Android phones often need 50-100% more battery to achieve similar battery life as the iPhone.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/17004/apples-iphone-13-series...
Here we see an iPhone 13 Pro with 3095 mAh battery getting 16.62 hours of battery life. The Asus ROG Phone 5 gets 16 hours with a 6000 mAh battery. The Samsung Galaxy S21 Ultra gets 15.91 hours with a 5000 mAh battery.
Android phone manufacturers need space for large batteries. The iPhone mini's 2406 mAh battery is smaller than an iPhone Pro, but it's less than half what a lot of Android phones are coming with. Android phones seem to have standardized on 5000+ mAh and that's more than double an iPhone mini's battery.
Then there's also the heat/cooling situation. With a smaller space, it becomes harder to engineer.
And if they create this smaller phone which might be harder to make, would customers be willing to pay as much for it? I was kinda shocked that Apple offered the iPhone mini for $100 less than the regular iPhone.
When it comes down to it, the iPhone mini probably nets Apple 1-2% of its revenue. Is that enough to keep it around? Maybe. But Android manufacturers don't have Apple's margins and they don't have Apple's volume.
The reason there aren't Android mini phones is that customers don't buy mini phones. Even if they say that they'd like a mini phone, they aren't willing to buy it. Every woman I know says that mini phones would be the biggest seller. Apple has tried that and it's only 5%. I love my iPhone mini and I'll be really sad if Apple gets rid of it. I don't see why people want giant phones. At the same time, I understand the engineering challenges of smaller phones and acknowledge that while I think everyone should want a smaller phone, they don't.
The iPhone mini might be a counter-example. The iPhone mini has sold poorly and it seems like Apple is unlikely to continue it when they redesign the form factor. They'll keep it around while they keep this form factor since they've already spent the money, but I doubt that we'll see an iPhone 15 mini (when they're likely to come out with a redesign based on their 3-year cadence).
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/02/09/iphone-12-mini-low-janu...
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/02/15/iphone-13-mini-expected...
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/05/iphone-12-mini-sales-la...
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/22/poor-iphone-12-mini-sal...
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/06/30/apple-ends-iphone-12-mi...
> it seems that phone makers who usually copy Apple on everything, just skip this idea at all
Making a smaller device is difficult. You still have to pack in the same guts, but you have less space to do it. This is particularly acute when it comes to battery.
Android phones often need 50-100% more battery to achieve similar battery life as the iPhone.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/17004/apples-iphone-13-series...
Here we see an iPhone 13 Pro with 3095 mAh battery getting 16.62 hours of battery life. The Asus ROG Phone 5 gets 16 hours with a 6000 mAh battery. The Samsung Galaxy S21 Ultra gets 15.91 hours with a 5000 mAh battery.
Android phone manufacturers need space for large batteries. The iPhone mini's 2406 mAh battery is smaller than an iPhone Pro, but it's less than half what a lot of Android phones are coming with. Android phones seem to have standardized on 5000+ mAh and that's more than double an iPhone mini's battery.
Then there's also the heat/cooling situation. With a smaller space, it becomes harder to engineer.
And if they create this smaller phone which might be harder to make, would customers be willing to pay as much for it? I was kinda shocked that Apple offered the iPhone mini for $100 less than the regular iPhone.
When it comes down to it, the iPhone mini probably nets Apple 1-2% of its revenue. Is that enough to keep it around? Maybe. But Android manufacturers don't have Apple's margins and they don't have Apple's volume.
The reason there aren't Android mini phones is that customers don't buy mini phones. Even if they say that they'd like a mini phone, they aren't willing to buy it. Every woman I know says that mini phones would be the biggest seller. Apple has tried that and it's only 5%. I love my iPhone mini and I'll be really sad if Apple gets rid of it. I don't see why people want giant phones. At the same time, I understand the engineering challenges of smaller phones and acknowledge that while I think everyone should want a smaller phone, they don't.
Giant phones are great if it's your only computing device. I have a desktop, tablet and laptop, and I love my iPhone mini, since I use it only for phone calls and sending messages. I don't need 6 inch screens for that, even as a big guy with big hands.
Typing on my wife's iPhone SE is an ordeal for me, and I don't even have large hands. For me that's a reason why I prefer largish phones (I have a Pixel 3a, which is not that big).
I use the phone for, you know, phone.
Scroll recents or contacts, pick one, call.
Don't need nothing else. No notifications, for sure. Also, f.ck text, call me.
Scroll recents or contacts, pick one, call.
Don't need nothing else. No notifications, for sure. Also, f.ck text, call me.
I don't agree the Android needs more battery part, but I don't have any good sources to back this up.
Since certain things are really different in life and sometimes reversed.
Since certain things are really different in life and sometimes reversed.
Anecdotally, many more things are actually running vs. using a system service to wake up a function on Android. Device manufacturers are aggressively shutting down background services and still, battery drain is very pronounced on Android.
It affects LiPo lifetime, which in turn affects CPU throttling etc.
But it is what it is.
It affects LiPo lifetime, which in turn affects CPU throttling etc.
But it is what it is.
It would seem like Japanese home appliances manufacturer Balmuda expects there's still a market for mini-phones, They've released a compact phone with 4.9" display[1] for $915!
Btw OP, There are plenty of non-name brand cheap compact android phones as well[2] although I'm sure they'd be filled with malware to the brim.
[1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/11/meet-this-unique-com...
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syB1ezRvKpU
Btw OP, There are plenty of non-name brand cheap compact android phones as well[2] although I'm sure they'd be filled with malware to the brim.
[1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/11/meet-this-unique-com...
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syB1ezRvKpU
I was looking for something like 3.7-4.2" max. At 5" that's a phablet IMO.
Btw, It's not just the screen size with Belmuda; They seem to have made several other aesthetic changes specifically for those with small palms.
I've stumbled on something called Unihertz Jelly 2 in this thread.
If only I could get one. They seem to not have made many to go around.
If only I could get one. They seem to not have made many to go around.
From the maker of the best ( and expensive ) Japanese toaster, Balmuda. But it is $900 though. Even smaller than the original iPhone.
>shown by the iPhone mini.
If anything iPhone mini has shown the market for expensive, mini iPhone is rather small. iPhone SE are still selling well because it fits the market of both price and size conscious segment. Possibly Touch ID although we dont have any Data to back this.
Even in Japan, the market which typically prefer smaller size phones, iPhone Mini has not been making as much sales as many have hoped.
So the people who want smaller phone are also those generally dont care much about latest camera, screen, or tech. And these market also tends to be low margin. iPhone SE starting at $399 is already considered expensive for a small phone.
I guess that is part of the reason why supply chain sources are pointing to a iPhone 14 Max rather than iPhone 14 Mini. Personally I am waiting for the iPhone 13 Mini to drop in price. Or if possible updated iPhone SE with Touch ID on power button.
https://www.engadget.com/japanese-toaster-maker-balmuda-firs...
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/11/meet-this-unique-com...
>shown by the iPhone mini.
If anything iPhone mini has shown the market for expensive, mini iPhone is rather small. iPhone SE are still selling well because it fits the market of both price and size conscious segment. Possibly Touch ID although we dont have any Data to back this.
Even in Japan, the market which typically prefer smaller size phones, iPhone Mini has not been making as much sales as many have hoped.
So the people who want smaller phone are also those generally dont care much about latest camera, screen, or tech. And these market also tends to be low margin. iPhone SE starting at $399 is already considered expensive for a small phone.
I guess that is part of the reason why supply chain sources are pointing to a iPhone 14 Max rather than iPhone 14 Mini. Personally I am waiting for the iPhone 13 Mini to drop in price. Or if possible updated iPhone SE with Touch ID on power button.
https://www.engadget.com/japanese-toaster-maker-balmuda-firs...
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/11/meet-this-unique-com...
My wife has declared her intention to buy an SE for her next phone because she hates dealing with the Face ID on her current iPhone
It’s interesting the preferences people have. My work phone has Touch ID and I’ve grown so accustomed to Face ID that Touch ID feels annoying. I also remember some time ago my wife refused to have something that didn’t have a physical keyboard (she used a Blackberry nonstop at work during that time). Then all it took was using an iPhone and now she has no desire to ever use a physical keyboard.
FaceID sucks with covid masks on. It also sucks with winter masks on. It was designed by people that live in Cupertino, a place where it never gets cold enough to need a face mask. I'm not saying it's bad, only that it's not a 100% perfect replacement for TouchID.
FaceID + Apple Watch solves the mask issue, but requires buying another Apple device.
There is the most common answer on FaceID problems. I just dont like the idea of a Timepiece that requires day to day charging. If they could have make a strap or band that last weeks if not months I may actually buy one.
That's the thing that prevents me from using my Apple Watch on a regular basis. On the one hand it has some nice features when it's basically tethered to my iPhone. But daily charging, especially when traveling, is a pain.
Came here to say this. My friend recently took a plane ride and every time he would move his mask slightly to unlock his phone through FaceID, a flight attendant would come to ask him to please put his mask back on or he would get in trouble.
Honestly Google perfected touchid on the pixel. I thought I'd hate having it in the middle of the back of the phone after using an iPhone, but it turned out my finger was always right there anyway. I'm actually disappointed they moved away from that on the 6.
If it's cold enough to need a face mask, you probably have gloves on too.
Well TouchID sucked with gloves on - so pick your poison.
Initially when I moved to a FaceID phone I liked it for the fact that it would unlock itself without me having to take gloves off while biking. That was a time-saver. But now in 2021 with face masks the amount of situations where TouchID would have been more time-saving is a lot higher.
Initially when I moved to a FaceID phone I liked it for the fact that it would unlock itself without me having to take gloves off while biking. That was a time-saver. But now in 2021 with face masks the amount of situations where TouchID would have been more time-saving is a lot higher.
They have accelerometers, don't they? Can't it please be a SECRET KNOCK?
I have both and Touch ID is much more dependable than Face ID. Face ID is convenient but it’s not dependable. There is one case where Face ID is better and that’s when you wear gloves, but often times if it’s cold enough for gloves you may have a scarf or head winter wear on as well which would defeat Face ID.
I feel they are complementary and both should be present so you can decide take my glove off or take my face coverings off.
I feel they are complementary and both should be present so you can decide take my glove off or take my face coverings off.
I agree with FaceID being less dependable. That's my biggest annoyance. It's awkward with the pandemic because you have to lift your mask up briefly in public to use your phone, or sit there typing a long password.
I had an iPhone SE before my current 13 Mini and I really miss the TouchID (even after a few months).
I had an iPhone SE before my current 13 Mini and I really miss the TouchID (even after a few months).
You can still use a shorter (4-6 digit) pin. That's just as long to type as what we had in the pre-touch/face-id era.
It really comes down to how often you have to use it with a mask on these days.
2020 or 2016?
> If anything iPhone mini has shown the market for expensive, mini iPhone is rather small.
Maybe, but Apple released the May 2020 iPhone SE 4 years after they released the previous SE, and without announcement, they released a Mini in September 2020. I would expect many people who had wanted a smaller phone to have jumped on the May 2020 SE, and then why would they get a Mini 6 months or even 18 months later?
> iPhone SE starting at $399 is already considered expensive for a small phone.
I would like to know what alternatives are available for cheaper that are the same quality as an iPhone SE.
Maybe, but Apple released the May 2020 iPhone SE 4 years after they released the previous SE, and without announcement, they released a Mini in September 2020. I would expect many people who had wanted a smaller phone to have jumped on the May 2020 SE, and then why would they get a Mini 6 months or even 18 months later?
> iPhone SE starting at $399 is already considered expensive for a small phone.
I would like to know what alternatives are available for cheaper that are the same quality as an iPhone SE.
So this is me. I was limping along on a 2016 SE with a bad battery and looking for any sort of reasonably sized yet modern iphone to buy. When they released the 2020 SE it was an instabuy. When the 12 mini came out half a year later the benefits compared to the SE weren’t big enough to upgrade again, especially since the biggest failing of the SE was the battery and the 12 mini did poorly on that front as well. However, I recently jumped to the 13 mini, because of the big jump in battery and camera quality, and I can wholeheartedly recommend it as an excellent phone.
Less sales may come from lack of TouchID. Even if not pandemic, there are plenty of people wear mask in winter. Such people stick iPhone SE/8 because it has still enough spec thanks to great SoC.
Balmuda releases joke. Not considered to viable option for who prefer smaller phones.
"mode1 GRIP" is lower end but interesting mini (width) phone. Its width (56mm) is smaller than iPhone 13 mini (64mm). It's sold only in Japan but I believe base ODM model exists somewhere. https://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/column/hothot/1360240.ht...
Balmuda releases joke. Not considered to viable option for who prefer smaller phones.
"mode1 GRIP" is lower end but interesting mini (width) phone. Its width (56mm) is smaller than iPhone 13 mini (64mm). It's sold only in Japan but I believe base ODM model exists somewhere. https://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/column/hothot/1360240.ht...
I think you may be on to something here. I have an iPhone mini and that's its main flaw IMO.
I love the phone and wouldn't want a larger form factor, but the lack of TouchID is seriously annoying.
I love the phone and wouldn't want a larger form factor, but the lack of TouchID is seriously annoying.
i think "phone size" is more about length than width. GRIP length is 138 mm which is the iphone SE size. the 13 mini is smaller.
It depends. For who think outer dimension is important, length (longer edge) would be most important. For who think grip is important, width would be most important because reachability to opposite edge is matter for many use cases, but reachability to top isn't so much (on Android) unless too long.
For me, both is important. When I need to move the phone in my hand to reach left upper or right lower edge, it's too big and I would not buy it.
> From the maker of the best ( and expensive ) Japanese toaster, Balmuda. But it is $900 though. Even smaller than the original iPhone.
According to the link you posted, it has a 4.9 inch display. How is that "small" by any means? The original iPhone screen was 3.5 inch.
According to the link you posted, it has a 4.9 inch display. How is that "small" by any means? The original iPhone screen was 3.5 inch.
The bezel is quite small on it.
I’ve an iPhone 12 mini. The body is only a tiny bit bigger than an iPhone 5, but the screen is basically the size of an iPhone 8.
I’ve an iPhone 12 mini. The body is only a tiny bit bigger than an iPhone 5, but the screen is basically the size of an iPhone 8.
The 5.5" iPhone 8 Plus has the dimension as 6.5" iPhone 11 Pro Max.
But it is a great marketing tricks a lot of consumer thought the inch was shown as a unit of area. And that is ignoring the difference in aspect ratio.
But it is a great marketing tricks a lot of consumer thought the inch was shown as a unit of area. And that is ignoring the difference in aspect ratio.
[deleted]
Unfortunately people like us seem to be the minority. I read the mini iPhones were like 10% of the sales or something and didn’t sell well. I’ve had the same problem of trying to find small android phones. I never found any that were really a substitute for my original iPhone SE.
I think the problem is people use their phone as a computer now so they want a big huge screen. I use a desktop computer or laptop for anything serious and just want a phone that is as unobtrusive and one handed as possible. I lament a generation that only uses a phone for “computing.”
I think the problem is people use their phone as a computer now so they want a big huge screen. I use a desktop computer or laptop for anything serious and just want a phone that is as unobtrusive and one handed as possible. I lament a generation that only uses a phone for “computing.”
i find the problem with the mini iphone is that the features of the bigger iphones cast a strong shadow over it. pairing this with people wanting to pay for phones based on screen size alone and it means the mini and other smaller phones don’t have the margin to include new features - essentially they become a one trick pony.
during the apple keynote the most time is usually spent showing all of the interesting things that can be done with the new tech - and that’s mostly stuff that doesn’t come on the mini.
as evidence of this: i feel the recent success of the 14” macbook pro is specifically because it packs essentially all capabilities of the 16” model into a compact unit - and with that the price difference between the two is around $200.
as evidence of this: i feel the recent success of the 14” macbook pro is specifically because it packs essentially all capabilities of the 16” model into a compact unit - and with that the price difference between the two is around $200.
I think the appeal of the 13 mini is that it actually has all the interesting features of the bigger phones (minus 120 hz and ProRes), just in a smaller phone. I would agree that this is true for the SE, though, but it's also significantly cheaper.
Isn’t the mini missing one of the cameras? When I got my iPhone 12 i would have preferred a smaller screen but prioritized the third camera over the smaller size.
If I could get a smaller screen with all the cameras I totally would.
If I could get a smaller screen with all the cameras I totally would.
I think the 13 might have brought camera parity between the 13 and 13 Mini. Camera differences are understandable compromises IMO for small phones because camera size doesn’t scale with phone size like battery and vibration motors do. If you’re truly strapped for space, I’m all for dropping a camera instead of losing 1 hour of battery life.
The Mini has the same cameras as the regular non-Pro iPhones. The extra camera is only part of the Pro lineup
I have an iPhone 12 mini, and the reason I like it so much is because I really don't care about having all the newest features in my smartphone.
I use a desktop computer and rarely use my phone for anything other than text messaging or sometimes checking my email. However, I do really care about the computer I own, as I got the new 16" Macbook Pro the day it was announced.
Different people like different things. Not everyone uses their phone as a computer or their computer as a Facebook scrolling machine.
I use a desktop computer and rarely use my phone for anything other than text messaging or sometimes checking my email. However, I do really care about the computer I own, as I got the new 16" Macbook Pro the day it was announced.
Different people like different things. Not everyone uses their phone as a computer or their computer as a Facebook scrolling machine.
What features do the mini iphones not have? I’m unsure they would even appeal to me or be necessary. Again I’m realizing how in the minority I am on this though haha.
Think it only has 2 cameras versus 3.
I don't think that even 1% of Apple's iPhone sales is a small market.
That has to be not it.
That has to be not it.
Unihertz have some interesting form factors. https://www.unihertz.com/
My phone is a Unihertz Atom L, I've had it for a few months now.
It's a good phone. Not the lightest, but the screen is a comfortable size and it has the most important feature of a phone for me - a headphone jack.
It's a good phone. Not the lightest, but the screen is a comfortable size and it has the most important feature of a phone for me - a headphone jack.
The Jelly was my son's first smartphone, much to his chagrin (imagine being a 15 year old pulling that thing out when your friends had iPhone Xs or whatever massive Samsung phones were on the market at the time). I've been using an old iPhone SE because I love that form factor. The Unihertz Titan is very tempting, though, particularly given the hardware keyboard.
i wish apple would have just left the original SE alone, or made it like 'the classic' model
if they let the outside design stay the same but just bumping the internals (and weatherproofing, water killed my original SE), i would literally buy that every year just to support that kind of business
if they let the outside design stay the same but just bumping the internals (and weatherproofing, water killed my original SE), i would literally buy that every year just to support that kind of business
Very nice. They even have phones with a keyboard.
I assumed only BlackBerry had this.
They're not the best keyboard-phones, though: for that, you probably need to look at Planet Computers' Cosmo Communicator, and the forthcoming-end-of-the-year Astro Slide: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transforme...
Depends on what you are looking for. Sliders are nice in that they have larger keyboards and screens but the downside is that you have to slide out the keyboard in order to use it.
Candybar keyboards are always on hand. If you prefer the candybar form factor then the Unihertz Titan and Titan Pocket are currently the best options.
And android 11! Feels like a winner to me. Crazy that it's $300 (assuming we're both talking about the Titan Pocket). Feels like a potential winner to me.
The Titan Pocket is pretty great, just make sure you understand how small the screen is compared to what you may be used to. It works well enough for many use cases but it's basically unusable for most modern games. Which can be a worthwhile trade-off depending on what you are looking for.
I might just pull the trigger and get a titan pocket.
I've had a Jelly 2 for 6 months. Loving it!
I used the first gen jelly pro for about a year and a half; it was a pretty decent phone with terrible battery life.
It worked fine and did everything I needed it to do, other than stay powered all day.
How's the second gen battery wise?
Also did they put android 11/12 on it, and have they released the stuff necessary to have lineage support them?
When my pixel 4a breaks, I'd be tempted to switch back to a reasonably sized phone.
It worked fine and did everything I needed it to do, other than stay powered all day.
How's the second gen battery wise?
Also did they put android 11/12 on it, and have they released the stuff necessary to have lineage support them?
When my pixel 4a breaks, I'd be tempted to switch back to a reasonably sized phone.
I charge the battery every third day. Granted I don't spend a lot of time using it, and I keep the battery saver mode on.
LineageOS works fine for me. I think I'm on Android 10, but maybe 11.
LineageOS works fine for me. I think I'm on Android 10, but maybe 11.
Me as well. Never even heard of it until someone mentioned it to me in an HN comment
I have been using a Cubot Mini (4") for sometime now (1+ year), and am pretty happy with the experience overall. Feels so good to have a phone that fits in any pocket.
https://cubot.net/Smartphones/king-kong-mini/8
https://cubot.net/Smartphones/king-kong-mini/8
I was interested until I saw Android 9. That seems to be the common problem with a lot of these older phones: dated software. We have a car with android auto integration that actually finally works well with h android 11 and better with 12. 9 and 10 were the reason we paid for the built in navigation in the infotainment system.
Just noticed they have a new version with android 10: https://cubot.net/Smartphones/KingKong-mini-2
I see visible screws on the backside.
Is it possible to screw a belt clip there? And I don't mean in a case, but physically attached to the back of the phone with screws?
Some Chinese work phones have that feature, and it's stupidly addictive to be able to clip your phone anywhere!
Is it possible to screw a belt clip there? And I don't mean in a case, but physically attached to the back of the phone with screws?
Some Chinese work phones have that feature, and it's stupidly addictive to be able to clip your phone anywhere!
The screws have a very easy direct access, I can see them being repurposed for other means with a bit of effort.
Looks tempting... two questions:
1. How's the keyboard? I'm specifically wondering about this because at the taller aspect ration the screen is narrower than that of an iPhone 5.
2. How's the battery life? It's obviously not a phone that's designed for hanging out on social media all day, but I'd like to be able to make a few phone/WhatsApp calls without having to run for the nearest charger.
The keyboard is a little small, and does take a bit to get used. Not recommended for big fingers.
Battery life is pretty good; I charge it at night, and usually is half-battery. My usage is pretty decent, but mostly on wifi.
Battery life is pretty good; I charge it at night, and usually is half-battery. My usage is pretty decent, but mostly on wifi.
Looks as exactly the right phone for me. But the amazon comments say it would break after some month/weeks. I can imagine that happens when you treat is as a phone for a construction area, as it looks. But maybee it just dies because it's bad quality. Does anyone have experience with the phone?
I have a https://www.unihertz.com/collections/smartphones/products/je... and a palm palm.
They are similar in size for height/width, but the jelly 2 is about twice the depth compared to the palm. Both are around the size of a credit card in width/height.
The palm works well if all you do is occasional sms, phonecalls and very little app useage (like I have my mobile banking app on it). It only runs a older android version (8). Make sure to de-bloat it aggressively if you get it (enable developer mode, connect via ADB and remove anything verizon and everything that sounds like it might have a phone-home "feature").
If you often listen to podcasts/music on your phone and don't want a mid-day charge the palm will not work. The jelly 2 is much more realistic when it comes to battery and with light usage I get 3 days out of it, normal usage (podcasts/music a few hours per day, some surfing and email) I get 1.5 days out of it. I don't use bluetooth headphones though, so not sure how much that impacts it.
I looked at a lot of "small" phones on chinese import sites, but most of them seem to run ancient android (like 4-5) and be really, really slow with bad battery life and questionable quality. Also if I buy from an unknown brand I'd want to run LineageOS to make sure I get updates and can remove potential spyware.
The palm is pretty cheap on ebay and works even if you don't have verizon (I'm in the EU and just removed the verizon apps and used a normal SIM).
In general there are no good options for small phones. The iphone mini is too large for my tastes, the jelly 2 is a bit too thick, and the palm is running old android and has too bad battery. Depending on your usage the palm or the jelly 2 are probably the least bad options.
They are similar in size for height/width, but the jelly 2 is about twice the depth compared to the palm. Both are around the size of a credit card in width/height.
The palm works well if all you do is occasional sms, phonecalls and very little app useage (like I have my mobile banking app on it). It only runs a older android version (8). Make sure to de-bloat it aggressively if you get it (enable developer mode, connect via ADB and remove anything verizon and everything that sounds like it might have a phone-home "feature").
If you often listen to podcasts/music on your phone and don't want a mid-day charge the palm will not work. The jelly 2 is much more realistic when it comes to battery and with light usage I get 3 days out of it, normal usage (podcasts/music a few hours per day, some surfing and email) I get 1.5 days out of it. I don't use bluetooth headphones though, so not sure how much that impacts it.
I looked at a lot of "small" phones on chinese import sites, but most of them seem to run ancient android (like 4-5) and be really, really slow with bad battery life and questionable quality. Also if I buy from an unknown brand I'd want to run LineageOS to make sure I get updates and can remove potential spyware.
The palm is pretty cheap on ebay and works even if you don't have verizon (I'm in the EU and just removed the verizon apps and used a normal SIM).
In general there are no good options for small phones. The iphone mini is too large for my tastes, the jelly 2 is a bit too thick, and the palm is running old android and has too bad battery. Depending on your usage the palm or the jelly 2 are probably the least bad options.
> ...if all you do is occasional sms, phonecalls and very little app useage (like I have my mobile banking app on it). It only runs a older android version (8). Make sure to de-bloat it aggressively if you get it (enable developer mode, connect via ADB and remove anything verizon and everything that sounds like it might have a phone-home "feature").
These three things go so well together. I have a 5 year old basic Moto that's been stripped down aggressively with ADB. It started as an experiment when battery life went south. I thought I'd be replacing it anyway. Battery life went from 7 hours of sitting quietly to 3-4 days, and suddenly it was a viable phone again. More than viable, in fact the best battery life of any mobile phone I've ever owned.
I'd add Netguard to those steps. Netguard is great for identifying which apps are phoning home, and blocking telemetry from the ones I choose to keep around, like the canned clock or contacts apps.
The few Play Store apps I have get updated by temporarily installing Aurora now and then, the rest come from FDroid. Dropping Play Store is what fixed my battery problem, that's primarily what was gorging on the watt-hours. I think that problem's been mediated since, but I've been fine without it.
These three things go so well together. I have a 5 year old basic Moto that's been stripped down aggressively with ADB. It started as an experiment when battery life went south. I thought I'd be replacing it anyway. Battery life went from 7 hours of sitting quietly to 3-4 days, and suddenly it was a viable phone again. More than viable, in fact the best battery life of any mobile phone I've ever owned.
I'd add Netguard to those steps. Netguard is great for identifying which apps are phoning home, and blocking telemetry from the ones I choose to keep around, like the canned clock or contacts apps.
The few Play Store apps I have get updated by temporarily installing Aurora now and then, the rest come from FDroid. Dropping Play Store is what fixed my battery problem, that's primarily what was gorging on the watt-hours. I think that problem's been mediated since, but I've been fine without it.
As other users on the thread I also needed to change phone recently (the old one was already 5 years old and was begging for a replacement).
I wanted an Android with a headphones Jack connector, and a "you can reach all the screen comfortably with you thumb while using one hand" size, nothing else (not even camera, I simply don't use it other than the occasional qr reading).
All "good" results are from even more than 5 year old phones and obsolete versions, and no sign to change unfortunately.
In the end I simply searched for the narrowest possible, and ended with the Xperia 10 III. 68mm wide, Android 11 from 2021, and decently fast. It's looong however (21:9 screen) but very usable with one hand because you can grab it without issue.
In the end I simply searched for the narrowest possible, and ended with the Xperia 10 III. 68mm wide, Android 11 from 2021, and decently fast. It's looong however (21:9 screen) but very usable with one hand because you can grab it without issue.
I’ve looked at the Xperia 10 III (boy, that name) a bit. I just don’t understand the screen choice. What the hell is the point of a super long screen like that? If it was half the height I would be more than happy. Extra height just means it’ll stick out of the top of my pants pocket!
Films. That's the main selling point of this device. You can watch films without any black bars, sad I'm not a movie person.
Oh, and better of all: it has absolutely no notch! All the screen for video!
Oh, and better of all: it has absolutely no notch! All the screen for video!
I recently bought a ZenFone 8 specifically for its size, it's slightly shorter than the Xperia 10 III, and the same width. Very easy to use with one hand. I really like it, it has a headphone jack, decent enough cameras, a 120hz screen, and a snapdragon 888, so it's basically as powerful as any other current android flagship, just smaller.
Twice the price too, but very good alternative indeed. It does have a camera hole (which I wanted to avoid) and less battery, but the smaller height may be worth it.
You touched on a possible answer to this question. Android phones tend to be taller and narrower than iPhones, so there’s less need for a special mini device. Also, as an iPhone user I find Android is better optimised for large screens (you can swipe in from either edge to return, buttons are lower on the screen etc.)
I don't know, these long devices are less common, or so I think, although it's true that usually phones are slightly taller than 16:9. I still prefer a 16:9 phone though, but as I said those phones are basically tablets nowadays.
(And yes, I enabled the gestures to try and I must say that swiping from the right edge to go back and from the bottom to go home is comfortable and you get used to it pretty quickly)
(And yes, I enabled the gestures to try and I must say that swiping from the right edge to go back and from the bottom to go home is comfortable and you get used to it pretty quickly)
I've similar requirements and I've seen the experia 10 III.
Last time I've looked at it, it had uninstallable bloatware like facebook and the facebook services preloaded on it.
I don't think it is acceptable. Has this changed? I'm still looking for a decent phone.
Facebook is preinstalled, yes, although you can disable it (and from adb maybe even uninstall it completely).
As for "Facebook services"...
I searched, and there are in fact 4 services! They are apparently disabled too, but I'm going to remove them from adb in any case, thanks!
I searched, and there are in fact 4 services! They are apparently disabled too, but I'm going to remove them from adb in any case, thanks!
I've heard that now you cannot really uninstall anything from adb (at least without root), only disable something for the current user
Pretty sure I read on HN the other day that iPhone minis are below 10% of sales and won’t be continued next gen.
I have to carry two phones for work and really like the second one to be small. Stuck it out with a 1st gen iPhone SE for a long time (headphone jack ftw), whereas the current gen SE is as big as a 6. Bah.
I have to carry two phones for work and really like the second one to be small. Stuck it out with a 1st gen iPhone SE for a long time (headphone jack ftw), whereas the current gen SE is as big as a 6. Bah.
Bearing in mind Apple sells 8 different form factors of iPhone, 10% sales seems viable. They can't all be the best seller. Even if you only count 'models' and not the different sized versions there are still 5 of them. In that context 10% of sales seems enough to justify doing a mini or SE version every other year at least.
I was about to buy mini, but compared to se 2020 it has no borders and a better camera. Camera I don’t care of, and no borders is actually a downgrade for me.
I like to 1) be able to hold my phone and not touch the screen by a “thumb butt”, 2) reading something with its bottom side sitting on my belly, where shirt or blanket folds may cover the screen if it’s full-height. No borders is just a designer’s delusion to me. I have a friend with mini and after every other telegram message he tries to record an audio because the record button is exactly at the bottom right of the case when the keyboard is hidden. If Apple stops making SEs, I’ll have to search for a special border extending case.
I like to 1) be able to hold my phone and not touch the screen by a “thumb butt”, 2) reading something with its bottom side sitting on my belly, where shirt or blanket folds may cover the screen if it’s full-height. No borders is just a designer’s delusion to me. I have a friend with mini and after every other telegram message he tries to record an audio because the record button is exactly at the bottom right of the case when the keyboard is hidden. If Apple stops making SEs, I’ll have to search for a special border extending case.
I have the 13 mini, it is thick enough (in a positive sense, not overly thick either) that I comfortably grip it without my fingers touching the screen unintentionally. I’d suggest visiting a store before giving up on the idea of them.
You may be referring to [1], which I believe showed up on here. This article seemed somewhat misleading to me as it mostly referred to the fact that apple had enough minis to meet demand until the next version, not that they were cancelling the product.
For what it’s worth I know several people that are extremely pleased with the mini, and that are far more likely to upgrade because of it.
[1] https://www.macrumors.com/2021/06/30/apple-ends-iphone-12-mi...
For what it’s worth I know several people that are extremely pleased with the mini, and that are far more likely to upgrade because of it.
[1] https://www.macrumors.com/2021/06/30/apple-ends-iphone-12-mi...
If Apple was going to nix the mini altogether, they wouldn't have just introduced the iPhone 13 mini.
I don’t think that’s related. Apple goes through many iterations of something the market does not want before they axe it: Touch Bar, butterfly keys, USB-C only ports, etc. These could all have been axed after the first year and were not.
Personally I rather like the minis and hope they don’t kill it, though I’m afraid that I might be in a minority. But it appears they sell more than other companies flagships, so maybe the market for it is underrated.
Personally I rather like the minis and hope they don’t kill it, though I’m afraid that I might be in a minority. But it appears they sell more than other companies flagships, so maybe the market for it is underrated.
To be fair, the regular iPhone 12/13 isn't that bigger than the iPhone 12/13 mini. Compared to what's left of the classic iPhone form factor (6s/7/8/SE), the minis are a bit smaller and the regular ones a bit larger. They're thicker, though, and don't slip as easily into a pocket.
The iPhone “mini” is comparable in size to the 6 also.
It is very noticably bigger than the SE
It is very noticably bigger than the SE
Noticeably smaller than the iPhone 6 from what I can recall.
About half way between iPhone 5 and iPhone 6. Or at least feels that way.
About half way between iPhone 5 and iPhone 6. Or at least feels that way.
I have been nerdsniped!
I actually had a 6s- though I gave it away.
But I still have the box and the iPhone 12 mini _does_ fit into the box, but it's exactly the same width as the 6s and approximately 3mm shorter. So it's still well into "iPhone 6" sizing territory, though it is smaller.
I also have a 5.
So I took some (awful) photos: https://imgur.com/a/wtDEyi8
(I had to use a really old android phone to take the photos, sadly)
I actually had a 6s- though I gave it away.
But I still have the box and the iPhone 12 mini _does_ fit into the box, but it's exactly the same width as the 6s and approximately 3mm shorter. So it's still well into "iPhone 6" sizing territory, though it is smaller.
I also have a 5.
So I took some (awful) photos: https://imgur.com/a/wtDEyi8
(I had to use a really old android phone to take the photos, sadly)
Answer: because Android/Google phones need as much screen space as possible to display what little content is left still between the ads ;) Another reason I can see is that phablets tend to hit ground faster than small phones, thereby pouring demand into the feedback loop.
Seriously, there used to be decent Android phones fitting in a pocket but clearly the market seems to have sorted those out. It's one of the reasons I'm using an iPhone after having used Android phones all the time - can't stand precarious phablets. Missing Mobile FF with uBO, though it's not that much of a problem I thought it was given what little browsing I'm still doing, and Safari is working well enough to regain some privacy I guess.
Seriously, there used to be decent Android phones fitting in a pocket but clearly the market seems to have sorted those out. It's one of the reasons I'm using an iPhone after having used Android phones all the time - can't stand precarious phablets. Missing Mobile FF with uBO, though it's not that much of a problem I thought it was given what little browsing I'm still doing, and Safari is working well enough to regain some privacy I guess.
I'd love to see a quantitative analysis of screen content, ads and screen size over time
They hit the ground at the same speed but with significantly more impulse.
I am very happy with my Unihertz Jelly 2: https://www.unihertz.com/products/jelly-2
This looks pretty good. As long as there were a child nearby to do the screen typing for me and read what my eyes cannot see, it would be perfect for me!
Seriously, this could be a great backup phone for traveling. I didn't know it existed... maybe they need more marketing?
Seriously, this could be a great backup phone for traveling. I didn't know it existed... maybe they need more marketing?
I have one too.
Typing was not as bad as I thought it would be (it's still not great, just more usable than I expected).
I'm only 40 so can't speak to reading small text...
Biggest issue is having to scroll in almost all apps. Still love it, and my next phone will be a Jelly 3 assuming they make one.
Also, I won't lie, it's fun that my teenagers cringe every time I take out such a tiny phone
Typing was not as bad as I thought it would be (it's still not great, just more usable than I expected).
I'm only 40 so can't speak to reading small text...
Biggest issue is having to scroll in almost all apps. Still love it, and my next phone will be a Jelly 3 assuming they make one.
Also, I won't lie, it's fun that my teenagers cringe every time I take out such a tiny phone
Would the new Razr be considered "mini"?
https://www.motorola.com/us/smartphones-razr-gen-2
For myself, I love my iPhone 12 Mini, and will lament the loss, if the form factor is deprecated.
https://www.motorola.com/us/smartphones-razr-gen-2
For myself, I love my iPhone 12 Mini, and will lament the loss, if the form factor is deprecated.
My problem with foldables as “mini” replacements (because they fit in your pocket) is that I literally do not want the larger screen. I don’t watch videos on my phone, picture viewing is fine on my current 4” screen… I’ve tried a larger screen and it just frustrates me that I can’t get a smaller one.
> Would the new Razr be considered "mini"?
Looks like it'd be pretty thick when folded (certainly would lead to a pocket bulge). And folding screens still have to prove their longevity.
Looks like it'd be pretty thick when folded (certainly would lead to a pocket bulge). And folding screens still have to prove their longevity.
If you're in the U.S. and are okay with Verizon, you're in luck: they sell, in stores only, the Palm Compact Phone by Palm: https://www.verizon.com/smartphones/palm-phone/
I was sorely tempted, but as I'm an inveterate web surfer, a conventional smartphone seemed a better choice.
I was sorely tempted, but as I'm an inveterate web surfer, a conventional smartphone seemed a better choice.
Has there been a refresh since it was launched in 2018? Buying a 3+ year old Android model seems quite iffy. From https://www.verizon.com/support/palm-palm-update/ it seems it stopped getting security patches over a year ago.
I have this phone, I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone. The main issue I had is the battery doesn’t last more then a few hours with very light use.
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I am not sure what motivates Android phone makers. They sell a lot of phones but make little, no or negative profit.
Apple probably gets more value out of Android than anybody else since Android’s existence keeps Apple out of antitrust court.
Apple probably gets more value out of Android than anybody else since Android’s existence keeps Apple out of antitrust court.
> Apple probably gets more value out of Android than anybody else since Android’s existence keeps Apple out of antitrust court.
Kind of an odd statement given Android's 3x worldwide install base. Unless you meant specifically for US consumers.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/272698/global-market-sha...
Kind of an odd statement given Android's 3x worldwide install base. Unless you meant specifically for US consumers.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/272698/global-market-sha...
Apple cares about profit margins, not absolute reach
>Apple probably gets more value out of Android than anybody else since Android’s existence keeps Apple out of antitrust court.
I don't understand this statement, it seems very strange given that Android is by far the largest player in the market. If anything, the exact opposite is probably true, since Android is far closer to a monopoly than iOS. In reality, it is Android that is quite happy for Apple's existence and keeping them out of the antitrust court.
I don't understand this statement, it seems very strange given that Android is by far the largest player in the market. If anything, the exact opposite is probably true, since Android is far closer to a monopoly than iOS. In reality, it is Android that is quite happy for Apple's existence and keeping them out of the antitrust court.
Android makes a lot of phones but not much money.
When it comes to "flagship phones" for instance it is a strange status game where presumably customers get $900 of value because their phone costs $900. Flagship Android phones tend to have so many flaws (starting with zero software updates) that it's hard to see them as premium products.
One wonders if companies like Samsung, HTC, and such are not out to make money with phones but rather create a halo for their other products or to impress investors.
When it comes to "flagship phones" for instance it is a strange status game where presumably customers get $900 of value because their phone costs $900. Flagship Android phones tend to have so many flaws (starting with zero software updates) that it's hard to see them as premium products.
One wonders if companies like Samsung, HTC, and such are not out to make money with phones but rather create a halo for their other products or to impress investors.
I'm excited to see the Zenfone 8's smaller footprint, but it's still 90cc compared to an iPhone mini's 65cc (38% larger). It's 13% taller and 7% wider. The Galaxy S 21 is actually smaller by volume at 85cc. The Zenfone is thick, presumably to make room for the 4000 mAh battery that they can't spread across a larger screen's area. The Galaxy S 21 is only 3% taller and 4% wider so the Zenfone 8 is a lot closer to a Galaxy S 21 than it is to an iPhone mini.
When Android phones get marketed as "compact" I get excited. Then I actually look at the dimensions and they aren't really compact. Thickness matters in terms of being able to reach across the screen and the Zenfone's thickness will impact that. Even discounting the thickness, it's basically the dimensions of a Galaxy S 21.
Heck, it's an iPhone regular! The iPhone regular is 105 cm^2 and the Zenfone 8 is 101cm^2 compared to an iPhone mini at 84 cm^2. The iPhone mini shaves a lot of size off a regular iPhone - 20%. The Zenfone shaves 3.46% off the iPhone regular's face size while actually being 11.72% larger overall due to its thickness.
Heck, a Pixel 4a is smaller.
Every time I see a "compact" Android phone, they end up being not so compact.
When Android phones get marketed as "compact" I get excited. Then I actually look at the dimensions and they aren't really compact. Thickness matters in terms of being able to reach across the screen and the Zenfone's thickness will impact that. Even discounting the thickness, it's basically the dimensions of a Galaxy S 21.
Heck, it's an iPhone regular! The iPhone regular is 105 cm^2 and the Zenfone 8 is 101cm^2 compared to an iPhone mini at 84 cm^2. The iPhone mini shaves a lot of size off a regular iPhone - 20%. The Zenfone shaves 3.46% off the iPhone regular's face size while actually being 11.72% larger overall due to its thickness.
Heck, a Pixel 4a is smaller.
Every time I see a "compact" Android phone, they end up being not so compact.
True, not sure why you were downvoted, but after reading your comment I saw that the Zenfone 8 is considerably bigger than the iPhone Mini. It is as compact as a Galaxy S21 or regular iPhone 11/12/13 as you can see in this comparison [0].
[0] https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Apple-iPhone-13-mini,...
[0] https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Apple-iPhone-13-mini,...
Zenfone 8's going back to smaller form factor on the same flagship line is intersting. Zenfone 7: 77.2mm width / 235g(!) weight, Zenfone 8: 68.5mm / 169g.
I suppose that Android is most popular in the mid-range category, which I assume it's where people who cannot afford/or doesn't want an iPhone use their phone as their main device. They need a device that excels in content consumption/gaming, and maybe even work - you probably don't want to watch a movie or play a game in a small screen -, so big is probably better here.
I think people looking for smaller phones think of it more as a secondary device, they have bigger screens on their main devices (desktop/laptop/tablets).
I have an iPhone SE (2016) and I'm looking for a mid-range compact Android device that doesn't weigh ~200g, but I'm giving up. Between availability in my region (or the lack of), phones without development/custom ROM support, and cost/benefit ratio, I'm left mostly with imported Xiaomi devices that a few years back we'd call "phablets".
I've been wanting to replace my iPhone SE for more than a year, even tried a Samsung Galaxy S10e (Exynos version) for a week, but it didn't feel like it worth the price for what I wanted.
The only "compact" Android phone available officially in my region is the Asus Zenfone 8, which is the price of an iPhone 12 Mini, and then it doesn't feel like a good deal in comparison.
There are some seller refurbished Pixels (3, 3a, 4a) on AliExpress, but from some comments, it seems they're using parts with questionable quality.
> but it seems that phone makers who usually copy Apple on everything, just skip this idea at all. If anyone has thoughts on it or a compact model to recommend I'll be glad to hear.
I was also hoping that the iPhone Mini would influence Android manufacturers to make compact phones, since they seem to follow in almost everything else, but seems it won't be the case, unfortunately.
I think people looking for smaller phones think of it more as a secondary device, they have bigger screens on their main devices (desktop/laptop/tablets).
I have an iPhone SE (2016) and I'm looking for a mid-range compact Android device that doesn't weigh ~200g, but I'm giving up. Between availability in my region (or the lack of), phones without development/custom ROM support, and cost/benefit ratio, I'm left mostly with imported Xiaomi devices that a few years back we'd call "phablets".
I've been wanting to replace my iPhone SE for more than a year, even tried a Samsung Galaxy S10e (Exynos version) for a week, but it didn't feel like it worth the price for what I wanted.
The only "compact" Android phone available officially in my region is the Asus Zenfone 8, which is the price of an iPhone 12 Mini, and then it doesn't feel like a good deal in comparison.
There are some seller refurbished Pixels (3, 3a, 4a) on AliExpress, but from some comments, it seems they're using parts with questionable quality.
> but it seems that phone makers who usually copy Apple on everything, just skip this idea at all. If anyone has thoughts on it or a compact model to recommend I'll be glad to hear.
I was also hoping that the iPhone Mini would influence Android manufacturers to make compact phones, since they seem to follow in almost everything else, but seems it won't be the case, unfortunately.
Exact same situation here — I don’t want to go larger than my 2016 SE, and I refuse to give up my headphone jack and fingerprint sensor because I use them many times per day and the alternatives suck.
I thought I broke my home button last night and practically had a heart attack trying to find a recent phone to replace it. I cannot belive how much of a monoculture smartphones have become. Kudos to Apple for creating the Mini — it’s just too bad that “courage” prevents them from supporting a headphone jack to bump airpod sales.
And un-kudos to Google, who decided 2021 is “year of the giant phone” and pushed the Pixel 5a, 6, AND 6 Pro to dimensions that rival the iPhone Max. Such a shame after the almost reasonable 4a and 5 sizes.
I thought I broke my home button last night and practically had a heart attack trying to find a recent phone to replace it. I cannot belive how much of a monoculture smartphones have become. Kudos to Apple for creating the Mini — it’s just too bad that “courage” prevents them from supporting a headphone jack to bump airpod sales.
And un-kudos to Google, who decided 2021 is “year of the giant phone” and pushed the Pixel 5a, 6, AND 6 Pro to dimensions that rival the iPhone Max. Such a shame after the almost reasonable 4a and 5 sizes.
I know the tech nerd meme is “I just want a phone that does the basics”, but even if you can agree on what “basic” means, actual consumers don’t want that.
This is their computer, and YouTube terminal, and video game console, and camera, and texting device, and banking, and…people use the hell out of their phones. And bigger phones mean you get bigger screens, bigger batteries, and bigger camera assemblies.
Even my mom, who up until last year had an iPhone 5-style SE upgraded to the full-size 12 model, because she wanted the battery life, and the bigger screen that she could, in turn, use the screen zoom feature to help with her aging eyesight. Bigger phones solve lots and lots of problems, at the cost of being maybe 2–4cm taller than “compact” phones.
This is their computer, and YouTube terminal, and video game console, and camera, and texting device, and banking, and…people use the hell out of their phones. And bigger phones mean you get bigger screens, bigger batteries, and bigger camera assemblies.
Even my mom, who up until last year had an iPhone 5-style SE upgraded to the full-size 12 model, because she wanted the battery life, and the bigger screen that she could, in turn, use the screen zoom feature to help with her aging eyesight. Bigger phones solve lots and lots of problems, at the cost of being maybe 2–4cm taller than “compact” phones.
If you want an iPhone mini sized Android phone, you'll probably have to make some serious trade-offs.
According to Wikipedia, the iPhone mini is 131.5 mm tall and 64.2 mm wide. Using the "Phone Finder" on GSMArena, the closest phone dimension-wise, released in 2021, is the Alcatel 1 (137.6 x 65.7). Of course, it runs Android 11 Go because it only has 1GB of RAM. There are also a couple of Samsungs (A01 and M01 Core) at 141.7 x 67.5, but they only go up to 2GB and run Android 10 Go.
So it doesn't look like there are any "premium" Android phones that are close in size to the iPhone mini. Which is a shame.
According to Wikipedia, the iPhone mini is 131.5 mm tall and 64.2 mm wide. Using the "Phone Finder" on GSMArena, the closest phone dimension-wise, released in 2021, is the Alcatel 1 (137.6 x 65.7). Of course, it runs Android 11 Go because it only has 1GB of RAM. There are also a couple of Samsungs (A01 and M01 Core) at 141.7 x 67.5, but they only go up to 2GB and run Android 10 Go.
So it doesn't look like there are any "premium" Android phones that are close in size to the iPhone mini. Which is a shame.
Try the Xperia XZ2 Compact. Snapdragon 845, 4 gigs of RAM, 135x65mm.
A 2018 phone that no longer receives updates, and that you would likely struggle to repair if anything broke. Not sure that’s a great choice for a phone as we near 2022.
A 2018 phone
The year is irrelevant when the performance crushes the other options.
that no longer receives updates
Pop LineageOS on it. Voila, security updates.
that you would likely struggle to repair if anything broke
What makes it more difficult than the other options, or smartphones in general?
The year is irrelevant when the performance crushes the other options.
that no longer receives updates
Pop LineageOS on it. Voila, security updates.
that you would likely struggle to repair if anything broke
What makes it more difficult than the other options, or smartphones in general?
Does the Samsung Z Flip3 count?
Folded it is 86.4x72.2x17 mm.
Folded it is 86.4x72.2x17 mm.
It looks like the mass market prefers huge 6in screen and big battery. I have difficulty to find new Android phone that does not make my not-so-big palm tired. I do not need big screen and battery, I will use my laptop or tv to watch videos. The closest decent model in this region is Xiaomi 11 Lite,150g, not too thick nor too wide, snapdragon 732 cpu, etc. It is around usd 250. I did a bit of g search, most of mini phones from other brands are either not produced anymore, low spec, too niche, etc.
I wish others would make something decent, similar to iphone se.
I wish others would make something decent, similar to iphone se.
Consumers don't really get a choice about this, same as with headphone ports. Every generation of phones is bigger and even if they buy the smallest of the bigger phones, the average still increases.
Voting with your wallet only works if there are options, but now it seems that the market is more like most democracies - big soup with the same stuff, but slightly different colours.
Voting with your wallet only works if there are options, but now it seems that the market is more like most democracies - big soup with the same stuff, but slightly different colours.
https://network.mobile.rakuten.co.jp/product/smartphone/raku... this exists, it's probably some rebrand of something else. Battery lasts less than a day though.
The first android phone I still remember owning was Sony/Ericsson Xperia Ray. It was 3.3 inches in size (~51.0% screen-to-body ratio). I could hold the whole device in my hand. It was awesome. Their next model even had a physical keyboard.
Obviously, this wasn't an internet browsing device, although that was possible.
Obviously, this wasn't an internet browsing device, although that was possible.
I got a couple of Sony compact models for longer battery life, every year for free with a new contract. But they also perform better then my big and newer ones in my number-crunching benchmarks. I also use them as private benchmarking cloud. Sony end of lifed them, but they are still good.
When Sony had their Xperia mini's, I always intended to make them "my next phone", but they always released at a bad time for my upgrade cycle and got passed over. It's a pity, because I think they did everything right with those: it was a premium phone with premium internals, just in a smaller form factor.
My current phone is a Galaxy S10e, which also has a smaller form factor and held onto a number of vanishing features (like a headphone jack and SD slot). It's smaller than my last phone, and I love it. I don't know what I'll do when Samsung stops sending it security updates, because they quite literally don't make them like this anymore.
My current phone is a Galaxy S10e, which also has a smaller form factor and held onto a number of vanishing features (like a headphone jack and SD slot). It's smaller than my last phone, and I love it. I don't know what I'll do when Samsung stops sending it security updates, because they quite literally don't make them like this anymore.
Aside from the supply chain & consumer preferences, energy consumption increases at a slower rate than battery capacity as you grow screen size. This means poorly done power management is easier to paper over in a larger chassis by growing the battery.
My mini 12 has a 25% smaller battery than my last Android. I can easily stretch the mini multiple days on a charge, but the Android phone struggled to hit eighteen hours despite my best efforts.
Google is in the best position to drive improvement in this regard, but they've shown no interest. Indeed, it seems Pixel phones have a reputation for poor battery life.
My mini 12 has a 25% smaller battery than my last Android. I can easily stretch the mini multiple days on a charge, but the Android phone struggled to hit eighteen hours despite my best efforts.
Google is in the best position to drive improvement in this regard, but they've shown no interest. Indeed, it seems Pixel phones have a reputation for poor battery life.
I don't know how "mini" it is, but the leaks for the upcoming s22 to be released in February point to a considerably smaller phone than the current models! I am super excited for it!
5G is one of the criminal. Now most non-low end phones are required to have 5G on spec sheet for sales (I don't think it really needed for now). But having 5G requires more antenna and drains more battery. It makes difficult to make smaller phones. Finally, battery consumption would be solved in the future. I don't know about antennas.
If Apple can fit the antenna in the Minis, I’m not sure this is a compelling argument. You could always return phones to 2015 thickness to fit extra battery, especially if you returned them to 2015 width/height (width and height creep have pushed manufacturers to thin their phones to keep them weildable…ish)
Apple is obviously one of the richest phone manufacturer for capital, human resource, and equipment. So it can't be simply applied for other competitors. (But I believe Samsung/Huawei can do)
For battery, Apple makes iPhone, not Android phone. It means they need less batteries because its OS is efficient and they make great SoC with the best fab (be sure that efficiency of Samsung 5nm is similar to TSMC 7nm). iPhone 13 mini only have 2,406mAh.
For battery, Apple makes iPhone, not Android phone. It means they need less batteries because its OS is efficient and they make great SoC with the best fab (be sure that efficiency of Samsung 5nm is similar to TSMC 7nm). iPhone 13 mini only have 2,406mAh.
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Sony used to make a nice mini version of the Xperia, but I guess they discontinued it due to lack of market demand.
Screens are hard to source. The market has trended towards larger phones over the years, which means that screen manufacturers have trended towards larger screens.
It's much harder to source a 4.5" screen than a 5.7" screen these days. As a designer, that constrains what you can practically build.
It's much harder to source a 4.5" screen than a 5.7" screen these days. As a designer, that constrains what you can practically build.
They everytime only copy the dumb things that Apple does, not the good things. And in my opinion the small iPhones are not small enough.
Currently I use a Samsung Galaxy S4 Mini, and I will not pay a new unused phone until any company will make a phone that is as small as this.
There is a small phone by Melrose, the S9 Mini. Not sure if it works on USA bands.
https://a.aliexpress.com/_vSfZuC
There are. I have a Jelly 2 from Unihertz running LineageOS. Quite happy with it. https://www.unihertz.com/
Because there isn't sufficient demand for it. Sony, the one OEM that made small phones, has basically abandoned the smartphone market altogether due to the competition outselling them.
Unihertz Jelly 2. https://www.unihertz.com/products/jelly-2
It is amazing for digital detoxing.
It is amazing for digital detoxing.
battery is one.. Android phones in general, even the Pixels, are already less energy efficient compared to the iPhones.. it will be much harder to work around that restriction with a smaller phone...
I use a Galaxy S10e, which is a "flagship" compact phone from few years back, and it has been a great phone that I still use today, but even on the day I bought it, battery life has been much shorter than what I was used (an IP8) to I suspected I got a lemon...
I use a Galaxy S10e, which is a "flagship" compact phone from few years back, and it has been a great phone that I still use today, but even on the day I bought it, battery life has been much shorter than what I was used (an IP8) to I suspected I got a lemon...
The Titan Pocket has a 4000mAh battery. Small devices tend to have different use patterns since they are less suited for watching movies or playing games. I charge mine every other night but I think it can get through 3-4 days if needed.
I'm not sure battery life is going to be worse just because it has a smaller battery. At a constant DPI, the CPU/GPU doesn't have as much work to do to paint with a smaller screen, not to mention the screen itself consuming less power. Even if the battery life were worse, I'd want a smaller phone.
I'm still using a Z3C with LineageOS. At some point it will kick the bucket. I barely use it save for phone calls, and minor conveniences (e.g. vaccination proof, tickets and such). Part of me thinks I should just bite the bullet, accept a larger screen, get a PinePhone, and find a way to start contributing. At least I'd get more software support 1 year out than from the Android manufacturers ;).
I'm still using a Z3C with LineageOS. At some point it will kick the bucket. I barely use it save for phone calls, and minor conveniences (e.g. vaccination proof, tickets and such). Part of me thinks I should just bite the bullet, accept a larger screen, get a PinePhone, and find a way to start contributing. At least I'd get more software support 1 year out than from the Android manufacturers ;).
I have an iPhone 12 mini, love it, but it looks old because it's small.
My requirement is to be able to tap the top-left corner with one hand (for going back on iOS).
My requirement is to be able to tap the top-left corner with one hand (for going back on iOS).
So that’s the reason they in the latest iOS they moved the URL bar and navigation buttons to the bottom of the screen, to use with one hand.
I prefer small phones (iPhone SE 2nd was the first ever iPhone I bought because of that reason) but mostly because it is more comfortable to keep in my pockets.
I prefer small phones (iPhone SE 2nd was the first ever iPhone I bought because of that reason) but mostly because it is more comfortable to keep in my pockets.
Interestingly Windows 8 and windows phones in general had the url bar at the bottom
Strange that you think it looks “old.” Personally tiny phones with advanced internals seem more futuristic than tablet-sized slabs that practically require me to sit at a desk just to use them.
yeah its kinda sad..
you have to look at older models.
currently im using a Sony Xperia XZ1 Compact with linage os (android 10).
While there are a few compact Android devices, the latest version of Android is not really well optimized for smaller screens.
A tip is to get used to using speech to text, which enables you to switch to a phone with a small screen at some point.
I don't think "mini" phones sell well. The mere fact that there were "mini" models by Samsung (S10e) and Sony, among others, and there aren't anymore, and it took Apple many years to come out with a mini model ( who's copying who now?) indicates, for my at least, that there just isn't sufficient demand.
> it took Apple many years to come out with a mini model
Apple has always had a mini model, they just haven't named them as such. For example, the iPhone 8 (2017) and the iPhone 13 Mini (2021) are almost the same size (incidentally about the same size as the S10e from 2019). Phones before the 8 were smaller, and there have been several models of equivalent size (SE 1, SE 2, 12 Mini) in the intervening years.
Apple has always had a mini model, they just haven't named them as such. For example, the iPhone 8 (2017) and the iPhone 13 Mini (2021) are almost the same size (incidentally about the same size as the S10e from 2019). Phones before the 8 were smaller, and there have been several models of equivalent size (SE 1, SE 2, 12 Mini) in the intervening years.
iPhone 8 and 2020 iPhone SE are the same size. The the 13 mini and 12 mini are the same size.
I have the 2020 iPhone SE and 13 mini in my household, and the 13 mini is noticeably smaller when using it and preferable if you want a smaller phone.
https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Apple-iPhone-13-mini,...
I yearn for an iPhone 4 form factor:
https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Apple-iPhone-4,Apple-...
I have the 2020 iPhone SE and 13 mini in my household, and the 13 mini is noticeably smaller when using it and preferable if you want a smaller phone.
https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Apple-iPhone-13-mini,...
I yearn for an iPhone 4 form factor:
https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Apple-iPhone-4,Apple-...
You can get all kinds of mini android phones in China. Check aliexpress
Cellular coverage in the US often sucks with those import phones. They don't implement the same frequency bands as US-targeted phones.
Before clicking the buy button just check if the frequencies match your country and cellular provider by using a couple of sites [1], [2]
[1] https://willmyphonework.net/ [2] https://www.frequencycheck.com/
[1] https://willmyphonework.net/ [2] https://www.frequencycheck.com/
I'm abundantly aware of sites on which to check the bands - I've also used https://www.kimovil.com/en/frequency-checker/US/fairphone-4 in the past.
I'm not claiming it's unknowable, I'm claiming it's often known to be terrible. Purism, PinePhone Pro, Fairphone, Sony Xperia, Nokia 8.3 One, and other desirable phones support maybe half of the bands I need!
I'm not claiming it's unknowable, I'm claiming it's often known to be terrible. Purism, PinePhone Pro, Fairphone, Sony Xperia, Nokia 8.3 One, and other desirable phones support maybe half of the bands I need!
Any latest models with Android 11?
I still miss my Sony Mini Pro 2 with slide out keyboard. :-(
Also why is there no ipod nano/shuffle alternative? I was hoping an apple watch would do the job but you can't download music onto it.
> but you can't download music onto it
You can, via the Watch app on the iPhone, though it’s not a great experience. Choose “Music” and then you can select albums or playlists to copy to the Watch.
It’s like syncing an iPod, except it’s only about a third as reliable and significantly slower.
You can, via the Watch app on the iPhone, though it’s not a great experience. Choose “Music” and then you can select albums or playlists to copy to the Watch.
It’s like syncing an iPod, except it’s only about a third as reliable and significantly slower.
You can load music on an Apple Watch, but it's probably not worth the effort for most people. The only time the feature is useful is if you're nowhere near your phone.
Yes but that's exactly why I got the watch, to be able to go on a run or to the gym without having to carry my + sized iPhone. I used to be able to clip the shuffle to my shirt and forget that it's there.
There's a Sony Walkman model running on Android, NW-A105 I think.
Check out the Palm Phone; android-ish.
I miss my S4 mini. Great size.
Motorola Razr 5G
I waited a little over 4 years to upgrade from the Samsung s7 to the iPhone 13 mini. I could gush over how much I love this phone, both the hardware and software are a delight.
I've owned the original iPod touch as my first foray into smart phones, it was small (~4.3 inches tall) and it was cheap (something like $300 for an iphone without cell service). Upgraded to the nexus 5, even though both had bars on the tops and bottoms of the screen, the extra inch it offered felt magical at the time, not too big, not too small, and the price (used) felt reasonable as 'real' phone. On top of that, stock android felt so much better than iOS at the time. I then 'upgraded' to an s7 and regretted it for 4 years. The phone was similarly sized to the nexus, but it didn't feel any larger to me. Similar to the Nexus, it was a behemoth of a phone that for my tiny hands made it difficult to hold without dropping it. Unlike the nexus, which had an incredible easy snap-off rubberized casing, the s7 had this awful glass casing, which screamed 'put a big bulky case on me!'. I got the seemingly best thing I could find, a big bulky OtterBox for $50, which seemed great, but the rubber blew apart after a year. Between the case never fitting snugly and the sheer bulk of the phone+case, getting it in and out of pockets was a serious ordeal, it also made the wireless charging not work at all for me, this meant that I had to fiddle with the stupid cables constantly. On top of all that, the OS that Samsung shipped with the phone was utter crap. For such an expensive product, I was shocked by how bad it was, and sure you can mess around with roms and such, but who has time for that crap? But hey, at least the battery was massive and I only needed to plug it in once a day.
Que, iPhone 13 mini. The phone has a slightly smaller profile than the s7, but the screen feels (and is!) massive. It's still made of glass, so I had to put a case on it, but apple sells great thin cases (tbd on lifespan) that look good, slide in out of my pockets well, and do not interfere with wireless charging, better yet, the mag-safe cases made it WAY easier to do so. With that said, it's not like I even have to charge it very often, I'm getting multiple days between charges, 3-4 if I put it into battery saver mode. I have 0 worry about ever running out of energy and being unable to charge, something that on all previous phones, compelled me to stash chargers everywhere I went and carry one around. It's a shame about the recent turn wrt to privacy, but aside from that, the software is a magical delight, miles ahead of android in my opinion. Given that I paid essentially the same price for the 13 mini as I did for the s7, and that the trade-up rates are fantastic, I view the price as an absolute steal for the phone. I truly don't see myself going back to android in the future, Apple gave me exactly what I wanted out of a phone and I pray they keep this smaller line of them around.
As to why there are no big Android contenders in the mini-space, I'd guess it's a combination of apples hardware/software being ahead of the curve, and that the perception is that the average android consumer wants a bigger phone. If I'm being a bit more cynical, companies probably also assume they can charge higher prices for bigger devices/batteries. If I were to place a bet, I'd guess that there will be a slight rebound away from phablets in the coming years, Apple proved they can strike an incredible balance between size and battery performance at a price that is reasonable compared to other flagship phones on the market. They've set the trends/pacing in the phone space for years now, I don't have a reason to believe it's going to be any different in the coming decade.
I've owned the original iPod touch as my first foray into smart phones, it was small (~4.3 inches tall) and it was cheap (something like $300 for an iphone without cell service). Upgraded to the nexus 5, even though both had bars on the tops and bottoms of the screen, the extra inch it offered felt magical at the time, not too big, not too small, and the price (used) felt reasonable as 'real' phone. On top of that, stock android felt so much better than iOS at the time. I then 'upgraded' to an s7 and regretted it for 4 years. The phone was similarly sized to the nexus, but it didn't feel any larger to me. Similar to the Nexus, it was a behemoth of a phone that for my tiny hands made it difficult to hold without dropping it. Unlike the nexus, which had an incredible easy snap-off rubberized casing, the s7 had this awful glass casing, which screamed 'put a big bulky case on me!'. I got the seemingly best thing I could find, a big bulky OtterBox for $50, which seemed great, but the rubber blew apart after a year. Between the case never fitting snugly and the sheer bulk of the phone+case, getting it in and out of pockets was a serious ordeal, it also made the wireless charging not work at all for me, this meant that I had to fiddle with the stupid cables constantly. On top of all that, the OS that Samsung shipped with the phone was utter crap. For such an expensive product, I was shocked by how bad it was, and sure you can mess around with roms and such, but who has time for that crap? But hey, at least the battery was massive and I only needed to plug it in once a day.
Que, iPhone 13 mini. The phone has a slightly smaller profile than the s7, but the screen feels (and is!) massive. It's still made of glass, so I had to put a case on it, but apple sells great thin cases (tbd on lifespan) that look good, slide in out of my pockets well, and do not interfere with wireless charging, better yet, the mag-safe cases made it WAY easier to do so. With that said, it's not like I even have to charge it very often, I'm getting multiple days between charges, 3-4 if I put it into battery saver mode. I have 0 worry about ever running out of energy and being unable to charge, something that on all previous phones, compelled me to stash chargers everywhere I went and carry one around. It's a shame about the recent turn wrt to privacy, but aside from that, the software is a magical delight, miles ahead of android in my opinion. Given that I paid essentially the same price for the 13 mini as I did for the s7, and that the trade-up rates are fantastic, I view the price as an absolute steal for the phone. I truly don't see myself going back to android in the future, Apple gave me exactly what I wanted out of a phone and I pray they keep this smaller line of them around.
As to why there are no big Android contenders in the mini-space, I'd guess it's a combination of apples hardware/software being ahead of the curve, and that the perception is that the average android consumer wants a bigger phone. If I'm being a bit more cynical, companies probably also assume they can charge higher prices for bigger devices/batteries. If I were to place a bet, I'd guess that there will be a slight rebound away from phablets in the coming years, Apple proved they can strike an incredible balance between size and battery performance at a price that is reasonable compared to other flagship phones on the market. They've set the trends/pacing in the phone space for years now, I don't have a reason to believe it's going to be any different in the coming decade.