Germany to admit 400k skilled immigrants annually(newsweek.com)
newsweek.com
Germany to admit 400k skilled immigrants annually
https://www.newsweek.com/us-companies-beg-applicants-germany-admit-400000-skilled-immigrants-annually-1673761
87 comments
Pssst… don’t work for “tech” companies in big German cities - work for old-school manufacturing firms in second-tier metro areas like Nürnberg and Braunschweig. Salaries are close to Munich/Berlin, housing is much closer to sane (but still rather fizzy at the moment, buy with caution!), and they’re grasping for any data scientist or DevOps engineer they can get ahold of (among others). German competence is a plus, but the only mandatory thing is that you show a willingness to learn some.
Advantage of old-school manufacturing IT/dev jobs in Germany: the ones paying less than about 90k EUR are covered by the IG-Metall union rules - 35/40 hour workweek (depending on your contract) that your employer is terrified of letting you exceed, plus 30 days vacation.
Advantage of old-school manufacturing IT/dev jobs in Germany: the ones paying less than about 90k EUR are covered by the IG-Metall union rules - 35/40 hour workweek (depending on your contract) that your employer is terrified of letting you exceed, plus 30 days vacation.
My dream is working in a eastern Germany city like Halle/Saale, Jena or better yet Thangermunde, Stendal or other of those tiny towns with great communication infrastructure. All this while working remotely for a good tech company.
The amount of cheap land and beautiful spaces in those ex-communist eastern German towns (Sachsen Anhalt) in amazing . I did research around those towns years ago, and got to know a lot of empty beautiful places.
The amount of cheap land and beautiful spaces in those ex-communist eastern German towns (Sachsen Anhalt) in amazing . I did research around those towns years ago, and got to know a lot of empty beautiful places.
I am guessing you are a white guy. I personally know friends who got attacked with knife in Dresden.
That's sad. Yeah racism is terrible in that part of Germany. I think magdeburg is horrible.
I'm pretty far from white haha. I'm a Mexican living in Mexico. I'm not dark brown, but deeefinitely look Latino. My wife is dark brown though.
We had an ok time while we lived in Germany. But we deffo got our share of racism . Nothing violent fortunately.
I'd exchange that with the sad/crazy violence state that my country is at though. Constant fear...
I'm pretty far from white haha. I'm a Mexican living in Mexico. I'm not dark brown, but deeefinitely look Latino. My wife is dark brown though.
We had an ok time while we lived in Germany. But we deffo got our share of racism . Nothing violent fortunately.
I'd exchange that with the sad/crazy violence state that my country is at though. Constant fear...
Munich is top 3 in most expensive German cities. Still, German city hubs are comparatively cheaper than those in other countries (e.g. Amsterdam, Paris, London, Barcelona) and with 60k€ you're around top 30% in Germany. I post these statistics just to say that other western european countries arent better than Germany in these regards. Also, I don't agree with the assignment that the salaries are a joke; it's just that the inequality in salaries is not as big as in America or elsewhere. Yes, this means that highly qualified people don't earn gangbusters (well, you could if you go freelancer) but this works for as long as there's no (significant) brain drain to other countries, which probably there is not as Germans like Germany. So, what I'm saying is that the "low" salaries are in a way the price for Germany being a nice place to live in.
Median household income in the US in 2019 was 62,400 EUR (69,560 USD). Median software developer salary in the US was 98,800 EUR (110,100 USD), and the US is known to be uniquely and grossly lucrative for software developers compared to the rest of the world. Considering 60k EUR per year individual income to be too little is a very SF tech area thing to say. As a mechanical engineer in Canada, I cannot relate to that at all.
And yet, in much cheaper Poland and even further much cheaper Ukraine software engineers easily make the same or higher amount. There is a popular topic on Ukrainian language developers forum dou.ua where they laugh about European IT salaries, exposing the obvious truth that living standards of developers there are several times lower than in Ukraine, and in the Valley, they are at best the same.
That said, it's quite likely that Putin will have the last laugh.
That said, it's quite likely that Putin will have the last laugh.
I can't really believe that devs in the ukraine make as much as in germany.
Why would then work a lot of devs here? Cost of living is a fraction there.
Why would then work a lot of devs here? Cost of living is a fraction there.
Because the outsourcing industry is really advanced there... People just figured how to make money off foreigners.
Typical salary for someone who is minimally capable of independently working (not senior level) is $4500 a month net. Rent is $400 a month, utilities are invisibly tiny (which isn't a surprise for a country with around $300 median salary). Developers have full time servants, gardeners, drivers etc., all in the middle of Europe.
But, surely there is a terrible infrastructure and the country is in the slow-baking civil war and permanently on the brink of foreign invasion...
But, surely there is a terrible infrastructure and the country is in the slow-baking civil war and permanently on the brink of foreign invasion...
If you pay a dev as much as in Germany, how are the supposed to offer cheaper services if also the agency takes a bige cut?
No one would nearshore work If it's not cheaper then at home.
No one would nearshore work If it's not cheaper then at home.
Because they outsource to the U.S., and for the U.S. customer there is no difference between Germany or Ukraine. In Ukraine they also pay a lot less (if any) taxes than they do in Germany. Plus, you can exploit people more in Ukraine for sure (they are happy anyway because they routinely get 20x the median income in their area, by the age of 40 it's typical to be independently rich and exit active work).
And no, these services are not 'cheaper' - people who want it cheaper, hire Indian companies.
And no, these services are not 'cheaper' - people who want it cheaper, hire Indian companies.
Then why hire them instead of local devs?
Local devs or local dev company? In which country? In Germany they just won't find one. There are few good devs and almost no good outsourcers. Way more in Ukraine and there is an established ecosystem - there are even "accelerators" and "incubators" for outsourcer companies. In the U.S.? Because U.S. companies will never do actual coding in the U.S. - they only have U.S. front offices. Many of these "local" companies are actually Ukrainian, with a few guys in the Valley and 500 in Kharkiv.
As for local devs, then well, of course reason is the same as why dev companies exist at all: clients don't know how to manage the project or properly hire devs.
As for local devs, then well, of course reason is the same as why dev companies exist at all: clients don't know how to manage the project or properly hire devs.
Munich is very expensive for German standards. 60k gross is not a lot of money there.
Zurich or SF are still on a different level of course.
Zurich or SF are still on a different level of course.
They are comparing it to the housing costs, not just abstractly calling it too little.
True but 1,800€ for a good appt. is amazingly cheap. I live in Tel-Aviv and here you'd be lucky to get anything for under 2,000EUR. There's no public transport other than buses so getting anywhere is a nightmare. Cost of living is through the roof. Especially essentials like food etc.
SF is MUCH worse. Healthcare there will kill you. It's easy to complain but things suck everywhere and the cost of living is rising all over. This is because of interest rates and commercialization of land ownership.
SF is MUCH worse. Healthcare there will kill you. It's easy to complain but things suck everywhere and the cost of living is rising all over. This is because of interest rates and commercialization of land ownership.
Finding solace by comparing oneself against outliers has never seemed to me to be a good strategy
You sure are picking very specific items from whole immigrating-to-another-country experience.
People who emigrate purely for money tend to end up miserable from my experience. Since you mention Poland it gets into ridiculous territory - its a joke of democracy, extremely religious to the point when its not even fun to joke about. That part alone would make me leave for better places. And there are many more reasons to leave, mostly unfixable in one's lifetime.
A week doesn't go by when I don't read about some horror story from Poland about pregnant woman dying due to hospital refusing to remove surgically fetus which died in her due to archaic religious laws, ending up predictably with sepsis and complete failure of organs. Women doing illegal abortions in shady places which end up in their deaths. 3rd world country proper. Utterly corrupted, and properly fucked up country just like its neighbors (I know since I was born in one of them and went countless times to Poland).
The salary disparities in metropoles you mention are true mostly anywhere in developed world, and certainly true in eastern Europe at this point (Bratislava, Prague, Budapest etc.).
If you plan kids its a nobrainer - every parent wants best for their children, and raising them in such society gives them already such a bad start in life. Yeah, i would take Munich above any place in Poland or countries around anytime.
People who emigrate purely for money tend to end up miserable from my experience. Since you mention Poland it gets into ridiculous territory - its a joke of democracy, extremely religious to the point when its not even fun to joke about. That part alone would make me leave for better places. And there are many more reasons to leave, mostly unfixable in one's lifetime.
A week doesn't go by when I don't read about some horror story from Poland about pregnant woman dying due to hospital refusing to remove surgically fetus which died in her due to archaic religious laws, ending up predictably with sepsis and complete failure of organs. Women doing illegal abortions in shady places which end up in their deaths. 3rd world country proper. Utterly corrupted, and properly fucked up country just like its neighbors (I know since I was born in one of them and went countless times to Poland).
The salary disparities in metropoles you mention are true mostly anywhere in developed world, and certainly true in eastern Europe at this point (Bratislava, Prague, Budapest etc.).
If you plan kids its a nobrainer - every parent wants best for their children, and raising them in such society gives them already such a bad start in life. Yeah, i would take Munich above any place in Poland or countries around anytime.
Paying 1/3 in after tax income on rent is generally considered affordable. In the US I have gone well past that threshold. It’s why having roommates in cities is so common.
If you are in tech, it's not common to need a roommate outside the few super high cost of living cities in the US. Many of my SoCal friends have roommates, but none of my Dallas or Atlanta friends do (of course you can have roommates if you want, but at around <30% rent on income, it's not really required in most cases).
It also depends on how recently you graduated and how much commute you’re willing to have. I like walking to work which often means much higher rent.
A bit disingenuous to complain that the most expensive city is expensive. Just move somewhere else.
Also, that equation changes completely if you have a family and kids and don't need to shell out (or save for) annual 5-6 digit day care or private school / college funds.
Also, that equation changes completely if you have a family and kids and don't need to shell out (or save for) annual 5-6 digit day care or private school / college funds.
Germany is a big place, you don't need to live in Munich.
I have a pretty comfortable life here compared with what I could ever achieve in Portugal, no need to dream with FAANG salaries.
I have a pretty comfortable life here compared with what I could ever achieve in Portugal, no need to dream with FAANG salaries.
Are software salaries even lower in Portugal?
Or is it that there are simply no companies/jobs/growth?
(also - doesnt the German weather get u down?)
Or is it that there are simply no companies/jobs/growth?
(also - doesnt the German weather get u down?)
You will be getting around 1000 euros netto straight out of university, with 14 month pay (christmas + summer packages).
If you happen to do consulting to the major groups (telecommunications, banking, insurances, international brands like OutSytems,...) your salary will top around 2000 netto, unless you move into management.
Those values are per month, and any fellow countryman/woman can gladly correct me for more up to date values.
And that is when one was lucky to take an university degree and land a job on the degree's area, the minimum wage should be around 400 euros nowadays.
Also you will also have the typical southern Europe culture that things get done when they are done, and in some sweatshops working conditions can be quite bad, and since not everyone can live on the main cities, sometimes that is the only software job in the area, so better not push it.
Yes the weather isn't the best, however in northern Portugal we do happen to have a similar weather, and without central heating (unless you happen to live in very recent buildings from the last 20 years), otherwise common heaters and fireplace.
Also the German region where I happen to live can have nice Summers as well.
If you happen to do consulting to the major groups (telecommunications, banking, insurances, international brands like OutSytems,...) your salary will top around 2000 netto, unless you move into management.
Those values are per month, and any fellow countryman/woman can gladly correct me for more up to date values.
And that is when one was lucky to take an university degree and land a job on the degree's area, the minimum wage should be around 400 euros nowadays.
Also you will also have the typical southern Europe culture that things get done when they are done, and in some sweatshops working conditions can be quite bad, and since not everyone can live on the main cities, sometimes that is the only software job in the area, so better not push it.
Yes the weather isn't the best, however in northern Portugal we do happen to have a similar weather, and without central heating (unless you happen to live in very recent buildings from the last 20 years), otherwise common heaters and fireplace.
Also the German region where I happen to live can have nice Summers as well.
Out of curiousity, why do you think the salaries have been so low in Germany? For certain sectors I can imagine outsourcing has occurred to lower wage jurisdictions in Central/Eastern Europe, so maybe that has put some downward pressure on salary growth - but what about localised professions, like blue collar jobs etc? Or is it just generally white collar wages that are not that high?
The question is rather why software salaries are so high in USA. That is the real anomaly.
Because US tech companies are the most successful in the world and there is an immense demand for workers located in US-friendly time zones. It's simple market economics. I wouldn't be surprised if there is more demand for highly skilled tech workers in California alone than any other country in the world.
Equality is much higher in europe then the US.
It's the same for lawyers, doctors etc.
It's the same for lawyers, doctors etc.
Cities in the US can be very steep too. I have a ~50 sq meter apartment that runs ~€3000 in Boston. When I lived in Germany, my salary was about half what it is here in the States. Taxes are much lower, my effective tax rate is closer to ~25% (state and local) than the 42% in Germany plus the 5% Soli.
You only pay 42% for anything above 57,000€. Germany does have progressive income tax.
Literally every "skilled immigrant" is supposedly earning 57k or more. Everything else is a strategic move to keep salaries low. So, evey skilled migrant looking to work harder and more is going to get taxed almost half of that effort plus social constributions (up to the limit) and soli (still exists). There are tax-free allowances like in night shift bonuses, but those apply not to most workers. The base tax exempted income is much too low as well. Should be at least double the current 10k or so.
No, you don't understand progressive taxation. You pay 0% on your first 10,000€, then a few percent for the next 12,000€ and so on.
In 2021 in Germany for an income of 60,000€ you need to pay 11,735€ income tax, roughly 19.5%. there is also no soli tax anymore unless you are earning a top-2% income.
In 2021 in Germany for an income of 60,000€ you need to pay 11,735€ income tax, roughly 19.5%. there is also no soli tax anymore unless you are earning a top-2% income.
I understand very well as I'm German.
Anybody who is usefully skillful and economically useful will be earning north of 57k. Anybody who is all that and earning less than the equivalent German is a means to keep salaries low. There is an oversupply of cheap labour fuelling the Niedriglohnsektor already.
That also means that high-performing individuals with an already appropriately high base income will be paying 42% on any € pay increase, which is not a good incentive to make people work more and/or more stressful and/or more highly skilled jobs /in Germany/. Why here, if you can be highly skilled and high earning in Switzerland and be able to achieve a multiple of net income and get a better pension system to boot?
Anybody who is usefully skillful and economically useful will be earning north of 57k. Anybody who is all that and earning less than the equivalent German is a means to keep salaries low. There is an oversupply of cheap labour fuelling the Niedriglohnsektor already.
That also means that high-performing individuals with an already appropriately high base income will be paying 42% on any € pay increase, which is not a good incentive to make people work more and/or more stressful and/or more highly skilled jobs /in Germany/. Why here, if you can be highly skilled and high earning in Switzerland and be able to achieve a multiple of net income and get a better pension system to boot?
I don't think the salaries are a bad joke, but if you bring that point up, also compare how worker rights etc. are a bad joke in the U.S.
Whatever salary you get here, you will get a much more secure life than the equivalent (inflated) salary in the U.S. gives you.
Whatever salary you get here, you will get a much more secure life than the equivalent (inflated) salary in the U.S. gives you.
You're right, an easy fix for this is to live and work outside of metropolitan areas where you get the same standard of living for a fraction of the cost.
Big name US tech companies pay much higher salaries than typical for software engineers in Munich. Just browse https://www.levels.fyi/comp.html?track=Software%20Engineer&c...
And they are a tiny fraction of german tech jobs.
I find the tone of entitlement a bit hard to take. Yes, cities like Munich have a huge structural problem with housing and rent. Solutions are unfortunately hard. But it’s a problem for locals just as much as it is for immigrants.
And of course Poland is a nice place to live as well, why do you make that sound like it’s a bad thing? It almost sounds as if you’re regretting some personal decisions, and are now blaming the country you moved to for not living up to unrealistic expectations.
And of course Poland is a nice place to live as well, why do you make that sound like it’s a bad thing? It almost sounds as if you’re regretting some personal decisions, and are now blaming the country you moved to for not living up to unrealistic expectations.
I am not from Poland. Some colleagues were. They did careful calculations and went home.
Do you see any viable solution how to end yearly 5% rent increase in Munich? I don’t. There’s enough empty land around the city in all directions.
Do you see any viable solution how to end yearly 5% rent increase in Munich? I don’t. There’s enough empty land around the city in all directions.
> Do you see any viable solution how to end yearly 5% rent increase in Munich?
Don't live and work in Munich?
Don't live and work in Munich?
> I am not from Poland. Some colleagues were. They did careful calculations and went home.
So what? Poland isn't a third world country by any stretch of the imagination. There's no law of nature that living in Warsaw must be worse than living in Munich.
So what? Poland isn't a third world country by any stretch of the imagination. There's no law of nature that living in Warsaw must be worse than living in Munich.
Why arent developers building more ?
Is it zoning? Need for infra structure ?
Is it zoning? Need for infra structure ?
Please make your substantive points without crossing into personal attack, which degrades discussion and evokes worse from others.
"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
The headline makes it sound like a new policy to bring in 400,000 people and then stop, but the German immigration system does not work on quotas.
Anyone from an EU country has equal rights to a German citizen, any job that can't be adequately filled by an EU applicant can be given to someone from outside the EU.
Anyone from an EU country has equal rights to a German citizen, any job that can't be adequately filled by an EU applicant can be given to someone from outside the EU.
Aside from taking a job in 1/4th of Germany (granted, not Munich) is likely to at least confront you with racist violence, if you don't get the pleasure of participating.
And yes, as an EU citizen too, white ... if they notice you don't know the language or have an accent, it'll be coming.
And yes, as an EU citizen too, white ... if they notice you don't know the language or have an accent, it'll be coming.
I can say from experience that skilled migrants are wanted only in very specific domains like IT, engineering and some areas of medicine, etc. If you’re not active in those domains, you will not get a job according to your qualifications even with good German skills.
I have many acquaintances that work e.g. in IT and while they don’t have problems finding a job, their spouses are facing serious difficulties leading to e.g. changing fields (with the associated loss of experience/earning potential), spending years getting another college diploma or settling for less. And I’m talking mainly about Europeans here, with already recognised diplomas and full rights on the labour market.
With that out of the way, I’m puzzled by the premise of the article. How do countries become unable to satisfy local demand through local supply? Something must be fundamentally wrong with the market. In medical care for example the conditions are bad and the salaries aren’t good.
And while in IT the average salary’s good compared to many other countries, it’s nowhere near what one can get in e.g. Zurich, London or the US. Software developer is just another middle class job. This lack of applicants seems to be at least partly driven by insufficient remuneration. Not surprising that the politicians and companies would rather import labour rather than developing the local market and motivating the locals.
I have many acquaintances that work e.g. in IT and while they don’t have problems finding a job, their spouses are facing serious difficulties leading to e.g. changing fields (with the associated loss of experience/earning potential), spending years getting another college diploma or settling for less. And I’m talking mainly about Europeans here, with already recognised diplomas and full rights on the labour market.
With that out of the way, I’m puzzled by the premise of the article. How do countries become unable to satisfy local demand through local supply? Something must be fundamentally wrong with the market. In medical care for example the conditions are bad and the salaries aren’t good.
And while in IT the average salary’s good compared to many other countries, it’s nowhere near what one can get in e.g. Zurich, London or the US. Software developer is just another middle class job. This lack of applicants seems to be at least partly driven by insufficient remuneration. Not surprising that the politicians and companies would rather import labour rather than developing the local market and motivating the locals.
> only in very specific domains like IT, engineering and some areas of medicine
Because these are globalized domains.
The expertise necessary to work in these areas is very much the same in Germany, Latin America or Asia. Therefore any immigrant can do them anywhere.
OTOH, the required knowledge to work in law, business and other related areas are dependent on the place it is applied.
Because these are globalized domains.
The expertise necessary to work in these areas is very much the same in Germany, Latin America or Asia. Therefore any immigrant can do them anywhere.
OTOH, the required knowledge to work in law, business and other related areas are dependent on the place it is applied.
At least on paper, if you have a college degree and a job offer, you can get an EU residence permit (people use the term "visa" but officially visas are just for visitors staying for a maximum of 3 months, if you want to stay longer you'll get a residence permits, in the first few years they are limited to 2 year increments): https://visaguide.world/europe/eu-blue-card/ . I know a non-EU-ian who got one for Germany because she got a job writing English descriptions of items for an online store..
> How do countries become unable to satisfy local demand through local supply?
Demand and supply are measured in units of money, and when they don't match, transactions don't take place.
Demand and supply are measured in units of money, and when they don't match, transactions don't take place.
> With that out of the way, I’m puzzled by the premise of the article. How do countries become unable to satisfy local demand through local supply?
The baby-boomer* generation is much bigger than other generation. Their retirement is not met with the same amount of young worker coming into the job market. Businesses need to produce just as much if not more as before. So basically we need to import the kids we did not have 20 to 30 years ago to maintain the same amount of workers. The same thing is happening in many developed countries.
* Germany's baby-boomers are younger than the one in the USA or Canada
https://www.populationpyramid.net/germany/2019/
The baby-boomer* generation is much bigger than other generation. Their retirement is not met with the same amount of young worker coming into the job market. Businesses need to produce just as much if not more as before. So basically we need to import the kids we did not have 20 to 30 years ago to maintain the same amount of workers. The same thing is happening in many developed countries.
* Germany's baby-boomers are younger than the one in the USA or Canada
https://www.populationpyramid.net/germany/2019/
> Their retirement is not met with the same amount of young worker
At retirement age, no one is active in IT at that level.
For many decades, IT/engineering has been a bad career choice, and this perception has become part of the culture value system.
At retirement age, no one is active in IT at that level.
For many decades, IT/engineering has been a bad career choice, and this perception has become part of the culture value system.
This is an article about Germany's immigration policy that ought to be about America's education system. If we could "manufacture" skilled workers, the debate over "importing" them would be moot.
A quote like "...our nation has far too many people without jobs, far too many jobs without people to fill them..." is a statement about education, plain and simple.
A quote like "...our nation has far too many people without jobs, far too many jobs without people to fill them..." is a statement about education, plain and simple.
> ought to be about America's education system
I think you're missing an important part of the puzzle: there are no people for the jobs, skilled or not.
Look at the list with the most critical shortage: construction, transportation and hospitality. These are not areas where complex education is required.
Without immigration every developed economy in the world will find it very hard to sustain growth, like in Japan, Eastern Europe and South Korea.
We're entering a totally new age in human history: the age of population decline. But very few people have noticed this.
I think you're missing an important part of the puzzle: there are no people for the jobs, skilled or not.
Look at the list with the most critical shortage: construction, transportation and hospitality. These are not areas where complex education is required.
Without immigration every developed economy in the world will find it very hard to sustain growth, like in Japan, Eastern Europe and South Korea.
We're entering a totally new age in human history: the age of population decline. But very few people have noticed this.
This is the correct reason. Putting aside the attrocious US education system the economy literally relies on immigration of both skilled and unskilled labour. They irony is some of the nation's most dependent on immigration (US/Australia) are the most vehemently against it, either because or causing racism. (chicken or egg I'm not sure). I can guarantee you no matter which populist you vote in their cabinet will not allow them to do any serious harm to immigration, noone wants to be the next Japan.
The weird paradox about Germany is that, while the political structure incentivise this kind of nuanced, fairly sensible policy, it's probably on the more immigrant-unfriendly side of european states, culturally speaking.
You're going to be a foreigner, when you're here, and that does mean that people will treat you badly. You will be expected to assimilate, and if you're black or brown, you can expect a lot of petty subtle/not-so-subtle racism from state employees.
I don't not recommend it (I'm an immigrant), but at the same time, you've got to be aware that some people are going to treat you as a second-class citizen as long as they are aware you're not german.
You're going to be a foreigner, when you're here, and that does mean that people will treat you badly. You will be expected to assimilate, and if you're black or brown, you can expect a lot of petty subtle/not-so-subtle racism from state employees.
I don't not recommend it (I'm an immigrant), but at the same time, you've got to be aware that some people are going to treat you as a second-class citizen as long as they are aware you're not german.
This is true for not just Germany but probably all the countries in this planet. Humankind is sucks
Kinda? It's on a scale. Where I grew up (London[0]), the concept of culture was that everybody brings their own, and it's cool to have a whole load of different cultures living side-by-side. In Germany, it's a lot more like you're supposed to become German, culturally.
It's much more obvious when you go through the immigration process and have to learn about 'german' culture, and by that, they mean a certain type of white west christian german cultural traditions.
[0]: I don't know if it's still like that.
It's much more obvious when you go through the immigration process and have to learn about 'german' culture, and by that, they mean a certain type of white west christian german cultural traditions.
[0]: I don't know if it's still like that.
Not every country. Certainly a lot less likely in countries whose populations majorly descend from people who emigrated there in the last few centuries.
A Venezuelan-Canadian I met once in Europe made an interesting remark I never forgot. In the USA/Canada people care about what you do. In Europe, they care about who you are. What you do is much more in your control than who you are.
A Venezuelan-Canadian I met once in Europe made an interesting remark I never forgot. In the USA/Canada people care about what you do. In Europe, they care about who you are. What you do is much more in your control than who you are.
Every country has its dynamics to implement discrimination among its people. It is because Humankind is sucking. Generally speaking, let's look at humans' known history for the past 2000 years. We are still missing a system that allocates resources so efficiently to make each of us happy.
Corporations & Companies that have such high margins made out of cheap foreign labor,constantly lobby for further cheap labor because the price of living in the west is constantly rising, and hiring local hands damages profits.
I'm seriously wondering if people are only pretending to be stupid when talking issues about issues akin to this one, where it's very easy to scream: "racism" instead of providing actual solutions, or even discussing the problem. Germany has a lot of problems, as do other countries that rely on the 'never-ending' supplying of foreign labor(which is unrealistic).When you cut the pipeline of cheap labor: see the 2014-2016 boom which ended with corona, people act surprised when local communities won't do the job because the pay is a joke for their needs.The solution is not regulation or creating volatile unions, after all the markets eventually truly balance out(assuming players play fair).The core issue to be tackled is the ease to which companies can strangle local economies because they rise the cost of living through the mentioned cycle.
Funnily enough, the article states that China will surpass US economically in the 30s, yet it maintains the rhetoric that immigration is the solution.It's not: If you're a fan and want to replicate the Chinese "success" at least acknowledge what they did: population boom(to such a high degree that now they have an aging problem), vastly increasing their middle class, etc.Some of the western corporatists applaud a nation that rose up in a fashion that has nothing to do with their own proposed solution: immigration in china is de facto null.('Maybe' it just has something to do with massive profits made there.)
Now i'm not saying let's replicate China, because nobody mentions their dead body in the closet, but let's also not propose a "solution" that has been tried so many times and besides being a brain drain, it's a constant push from companies showing their greed for 'cheap' profits.
I'm seriously wondering if people are only pretending to be stupid when talking issues about issues akin to this one, where it's very easy to scream: "racism" instead of providing actual solutions, or even discussing the problem. Germany has a lot of problems, as do other countries that rely on the 'never-ending' supplying of foreign labor(which is unrealistic).When you cut the pipeline of cheap labor: see the 2014-2016 boom which ended with corona, people act surprised when local communities won't do the job because the pay is a joke for their needs.The solution is not regulation or creating volatile unions, after all the markets eventually truly balance out(assuming players play fair).The core issue to be tackled is the ease to which companies can strangle local economies because they rise the cost of living through the mentioned cycle.
Funnily enough, the article states that China will surpass US economically in the 30s, yet it maintains the rhetoric that immigration is the solution.It's not: If you're a fan and want to replicate the Chinese "success" at least acknowledge what they did: population boom(to such a high degree that now they have an aging problem), vastly increasing their middle class, etc.Some of the western corporatists applaud a nation that rose up in a fashion that has nothing to do with their own proposed solution: immigration in china is de facto null.('Maybe' it just has something to do with massive profits made there.)
Now i'm not saying let's replicate China, because nobody mentions their dead body in the closet, but let's also not propose a "solution" that has been tried so many times and besides being a brain drain, it's a constant push from companies showing their greed for 'cheap' profits.
> after all the markets eventually truly balance out(assuming players play fair)
So you're saying your entire rant is meaningless. There's a massive imbalance in power which means players don't "play fair"
So you're saying your entire rant is meaningless. There's a massive imbalance in power which means players don't "play fair"
> I'm seriously wondering if people are only pretending to be stupid when talking issues about issues akin to this one, where it's very easy to scream: "racism" instead of providing actual solutions, or even discussing the problem. Germany has a lot of problems, as do other countries that rely on the 'never-ending' supplying of foreign labor(which is unrealistic).When you cut the pipeline of cheap labor:
To add to your point, the pipeline of cheap labor is also getting cut at the other end --- with quality of life increases, skill and education increase, manufacturing hubs like China are getting continuously more expensive to use vs already expensive local hands.
With this diminishing cost differential, the only way out is for the countries that were depending on that differential to increase their value-add to the global economy in order to eke out a new differential by being able to demand a premium on local products (knowledge products and physical products) because of tech/quality advantages.
Unfortunately, exactly in this regard Germany is also falling back in the world. After losing leading positions in consumer electronics (80s/90s), mobile communication technology (90s/00s) and so on, little is left except from big auto, and big auto is already generating most of their profits abroad rather than at home. Frankly, it's getting hard to see what the country is wanting to sell to the world. There might be some highly competitive businesses left (see BionTech by sheer luck, a so-called and often-praised hidden champion), but that's hardly entire sectors of the economy.
Again, I'm not able to discern what the selling point of Germany is supposed to be. And no politician has made any honest attempt to tell and plan instead of running on hope alone. At the moment, Germany's migration-fueled economy parts are growing based on the most primitive producitivity factor in existence --- head count. And head count is not going to be enough for the future. You need factor productivity, and that's not coming.
To add to your point, the pipeline of cheap labor is also getting cut at the other end --- with quality of life increases, skill and education increase, manufacturing hubs like China are getting continuously more expensive to use vs already expensive local hands.
With this diminishing cost differential, the only way out is for the countries that were depending on that differential to increase their value-add to the global economy in order to eke out a new differential by being able to demand a premium on local products (knowledge products and physical products) because of tech/quality advantages.
Unfortunately, exactly in this regard Germany is also falling back in the world. After losing leading positions in consumer electronics (80s/90s), mobile communication technology (90s/00s) and so on, little is left except from big auto, and big auto is already generating most of their profits abroad rather than at home. Frankly, it's getting hard to see what the country is wanting to sell to the world. There might be some highly competitive businesses left (see BionTech by sheer luck, a so-called and often-praised hidden champion), but that's hardly entire sectors of the economy.
Again, I'm not able to discern what the selling point of Germany is supposed to be. And no politician has made any honest attempt to tell and plan instead of running on hope alone. At the moment, Germany's migration-fueled economy parts are growing based on the most primitive producitivity factor in existence --- head count. And head count is not going to be enough for the future. You need factor productivity, and that's not coming.
The USA is not short of labor it is short of trained labor especially in the trades and hospitality industries. Illegal immigration in the last decade decimated participation in those industries and many people turned to drugs and made themselves unemployable. College level training is excellent but hands on training especially at the community college level needs to be revamped. The USA issues over one million green cards per year far more than any where else.
> The USA issues over one million green cards per year far more than any where else.
That number seems excessive.
> Each year, the U.S. issues a maximum of 140,000 green cards to immigrants sponsored by employers and approved for permanent residence — a number frozen since 1990. Another 226,000 “family preference” green cards are reserved for family members of U.S. citizens and permanent residents.
Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/80000-green-cards-ar...
That number seems excessive.
> Each year, the U.S. issues a maximum of 140,000 green cards to immigrants sponsored by employers and approved for permanent residence — a number frozen since 1990. Another 226,000 “family preference” green cards are reserved for family members of U.S. citizens and permanent residents.
Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/80000-green-cards-ar...
EU is terrible for software developers because there is too much competition from immigrants who are willing to accept lower pay and are more compliant employees; sometimes willing to carry out unethical activities on behalf of their bosses.
It forces locals to also accept lower pay and also engage in unethical activities if they want to stay employed.
Also, the funding environment is a mess. The government only seems to fund useless projects which are doomed to fail.
It forces locals to also accept lower pay and also engage in unethical activities if they want to stay employed.
Also, the funding environment is a mess. The government only seems to fund useless projects which are doomed to fail.
It's even worse. The company I'm working at is discovering "near shoring" in countries adjacent to the EU, like Serbia. Much cheaper than local labour and no less qualified. For me to say, the contractors we're working with from there are just as good or better than the average developer Joe from here. As long as you can communicate in English, you can nearshore a lot of stuff. And esp. in Germany lack of English communication ability on the German side is one of the last barriers keeping nearshoring out of a lot of firms.
Even so the trend now is to have a few intermediaries who are native German speakers manage the near-shore team. You don't need the full engineering team to speak German - just a few key coordinating managers - and it's nearly as efficient and productive.
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tranpolines(3)
Now if you are car mechanic or some clerk salary goes towards €40k and one cannot afford living in Munich at all.
Other cities might be better and salary will increase in the next job, but in total it’s not nice country for immigration. As a skilled guy in Poland I would have very similar lifestyle without going anywhere.