Show HN: Just Launched an App for Dads
145 comments
I like the idea, and it's definitely an under-served market. One comment off the bat: it's not at all clear to me what is the division between the free version and the "Grow" tier. I might be in the minority on this, but the conspicuous absence left me with a feeling of "What's the catch?"
I won't start using an app that doesn't let me do anything useful without paying, and I'm not going to sign up for a service if I don't know what I'm paying for, so I always look for that information up front before I even install.
I won't start using an app that doesn't let me do anything useful without paying, and I'm not going to sign up for a service if I don't know what I'm paying for, so I always look for that information up front before I even install.
oh, fair enough. I've gotten that comment before and I'm still wrestling with it. But you outline it simply. I might just need to give a clearer heads up in the app description for starters.
I looked at one guide and strangely it involved both scrolling down and then swiping R-to-L to get to the next chunk of text. I could understand wanting to chunk the text and requiring horizontal swipes to move through them, but I shouldn't also have to scroll up/down in each segment. Maybe this is just because I'm on a smaller phone (iPhone 13 Mini)?
I was put off that I have to create an account before seeing more than just the introduction to a guide, and that at that decision point I have no idea how much the paid membership will be. Please don't hide the ball and hope to hook people. If this is $5/year, I'd go through the sign up process and see how it looks. But if it's $15/month, I wouldn't spend the time trying it out because there's an incredibly small chance that I'd end up wanting to pay that much.
Honestly it looks like most of the content is just stuff gathered from the web (or very similar to content that is free on the web), which also tempers my interest. Some people might be interested in posting public photos of their kids, but I'd never do this in a public app. Maybe I'm not in the target audience, or I'm misunderstanding. But I'm a dad and entrepreneur, so I was curious enough to check this out. Just my 2 cents!
I was put off that I have to create an account before seeing more than just the introduction to a guide, and that at that decision point I have no idea how much the paid membership will be. Please don't hide the ball and hope to hook people. If this is $5/year, I'd go through the sign up process and see how it looks. But if it's $15/month, I wouldn't spend the time trying it out because there's an incredibly small chance that I'd end up wanting to pay that much.
Honestly it looks like most of the content is just stuff gathered from the web (or very similar to content that is free on the web), which also tempers my interest. Some people might be interested in posting public photos of their kids, but I'd never do this in a public app. Maybe I'm not in the target audience, or I'm misunderstanding. But I'm a dad and entrepreneur, so I was curious enough to check this out. Just my 2 cents!
The scrolling is clunky isn't it. Thanks for sharing. We're trying to find a balance between chunking up the content for when dads just have 2 minutes of free time with some of the quotes that are a bit longer.
Guide paywall, well, we offer the first guide for free so long as you register. The copy mentions that BUT it's not clear enough apparently. We'll need to work on this more. And then again, maybe the first guide is all free without registration but felt like the notice would help people choose the guide they wanted. Back to the drawing board on this one! Again, we should be clearer from the get go
Content of the guides: I see what you mean. 80% of the content is written in collaboration with parenting pros for the app, 20% is reformatted with the help of the original writers. Sure, you could find similar content online but it wouldn't be written specifically 'for dads' and we know that most dads don't look for that content online because it's a flood of crappy content written for mums. We're trying to be very specific here.
Thanks for your feedback!
Guide paywall, well, we offer the first guide for free so long as you register. The copy mentions that BUT it's not clear enough apparently. We'll need to work on this more. And then again, maybe the first guide is all free without registration but felt like the notice would help people choose the guide they wanted. Back to the drawing board on this one! Again, we should be clearer from the get go
Content of the guides: I see what you mean. 80% of the content is written in collaboration with parenting pros for the app, 20% is reformatted with the help of the original writers. Sure, you could find similar content online but it wouldn't be written specifically 'for dads' and we know that most dads don't look for that content online because it's a flood of crappy content written for mums. We're trying to be very specific here.
Thanks for your feedback!
> Guide paywall, well, we offer the first guide for free so long as you register. The copy mentions that BUT it's not clear enough apparently.
Oh no, this is clear. The point is that you don't tell me what the price will be, and I don't create accounts for apps/websites that are going to charge me an indeterminate amount of money later on.
> Sure, you could find similar content online but it wouldn't be written specifically 'for dads' and we know that most dads don't look for that content online because it's a flood of crappy content written for mums.
All you have to do is add +dad in your web search, right?
Oh no, this is clear. The point is that you don't tell me what the price will be, and I don't create accounts for apps/websites that are going to charge me an indeterminate amount of money later on.
> Sure, you could find similar content online but it wouldn't be written specifically 'for dads' and we know that most dads don't look for that content online because it's a flood of crappy content written for mums.
All you have to do is add +dad in your web search, right?
Or shudders read an article written in female terms
I don't think OP's point was that dads don't want to read articles that say "mum" in them. The point was that advice for dads is, in some cases, different than for moms.
Both actually.
As dads are finally becoming academic research subjects over the last 10 years, we're learning more about the impact of fatherhood on their body/brains, how support needs to be more specific to dads, how their impact on their kids' growth is different from mums'.
But I'll say that most dads we've spoken to over the past year, after having felt invisible in their perinatal journey (or considered like "the lesser parent"), have said that they wanted some validation and wanted to read articles that would refer to them as 'dads' and talk about them dads. That's also why there is a section in the app that aggregates media articles written about fatherhood.
As dads are finally becoming academic research subjects over the last 10 years, we're learning more about the impact of fatherhood on their body/brains, how support needs to be more specific to dads, how their impact on their kids' growth is different from mums'.
But I'll say that most dads we've spoken to over the past year, after having felt invisible in their perinatal journey (or considered like "the lesser parent"), have said that they wanted some validation and wanted to read articles that would refer to them as 'dads' and talk about them dads. That's also why there is a section in the app that aggregates media articles written about fatherhood.
Representation matters until it doesn’t? There is nothing wrong with people wanting to consume content created with them in mind.
For those reacting to the inclusion of "lonely" in the description: lonely isn't a dirty word. I worked at Meetup for over a decade and one thing I learned there was that loneliness is a normal experience when you start anything new in life.
You can be "lonely in a context" without being existentially lonely (though that's a very normal human experience also). Loneliness just means that at the present time, you don't know enough people who you can relate to in a certain context. You may have a million friends, but if you want to start a new career, you may be lonely in that context and feel the need to know more people in that industry. If you are newly diagnosed with a disease, you may be lonely in that context, not knowing anyone else who has been through the symptoms you're experiencing, even if you are surrounded by supportive family. And if you're a new dad or mom, you may have your spouse, you may have your kids, but you can absolutely feel the need to connect with other people who have experienced what you're experiencing.
Loneliness is just your emotions telling you that you could benefit from the presence of people who have travelled and are traveling the same road. It isn't a failing. It's fuel to reach out and connect.
You can be "lonely in a context" without being existentially lonely (though that's a very normal human experience also). Loneliness just means that at the present time, you don't know enough people who you can relate to in a certain context. You may have a million friends, but if you want to start a new career, you may be lonely in that context and feel the need to know more people in that industry. If you are newly diagnosed with a disease, you may be lonely in that context, not knowing anyone else who has been through the symptoms you're experiencing, even if you are surrounded by supportive family. And if you're a new dad or mom, you may have your spouse, you may have your kids, but you can absolutely feel the need to connect with other people who have experienced what you're experiencing.
Loneliness is just your emotions telling you that you could benefit from the presence of people who have travelled and are traveling the same road. It isn't a failing. It's fuel to reach out and connect.
Loneliness may not be a dirty word indeed, but there is a huge stigma associated with it for men, and the result is sobering: it's called the "silent killer of men":
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/fear-intimacy/202111...
"Loneliness in men is correlated with cardiovascular disease and stroke; 80 percent of successful suicides are men, and one of the leading contributing factors is loneliness (Murphy, et al., 2017)."
True!
The thing that myself and others found so disagreeable is that your copy sounded… maybe “whiny” is the right word?
It reminded me of the “buddy dad” that cares more about his kids thinking of him as a “best friend”, than being a father. Those are very different things.
Maybe your copy is right for your audience, depending on your goals, but it stuck a strong negative chord for me.
Email in profile, by the way. Happy to iterate and provide direct feedback, as fathers do need good resources.
The thing that myself and others found so disagreeable is that your copy sounded… maybe “whiny” is the right word?
It reminded me of the “buddy dad” that cares more about his kids thinking of him as a “best friend”, than being a father. Those are very different things.
Maybe your copy is right for your audience, depending on your goals, but it stuck a strong negative chord for me.
Email in profile, by the way. Happy to iterate and provide direct feedback, as fathers do need good resources.
Those same studies about it then go on to find being in a relationship and having a family are some of the most effective ways to fight loneliness. SO it is kind of weird to include "lonely" in the call to action.
Very well said. I feel as you age and add parent to your CV, you experience all of these things at one point or another in a life well lived. It's all about how you tackle them and for many people building community around their item is a very healthy coping mechanism.
My first instinctual reaction was I would love content like this, but why does it need to be an app? It's a great idea for a magazine or even a book series or a video series. The multimedia potential of interactive computing devices means you can do all 3 in one, so sure, an app is just a means of delivery, I guess.
Except, it isn't. I was excited that you have a web link, only it's a link that allows you to download the app. I don't want an app. I just want the content.
Is there any plan to ever publish the content you're having generated by any other means? Why not put it directly on the website?
Except, it isn't. I was excited that you have a web link, only it's a link that allows you to download the app. I don't want an app. I just want the content.
Is there any plan to ever publish the content you're having generated by any other means? Why not put it directly on the website?
Yeah this seems like something that could work as a traditional forum? you could even pay-gate some of it in a similar way. I'm not sure why everything tries to recreate the wheel as an app now. Is web discoverability/monetization so bad that everyone's moved on to app stores?
We've found that dads in the 0~6 year old range want to have the content at their fingertips for when they have a few minutes off (toilet breaks!!), and not having to fiddle with their laptop and get more distracted.
But I get that this might not work for everyone.
We think that we have better control over the experience in an app, and I'll add that the type of features we're currently building will be easier to interact with from an app than from desktop.
> Being a dad is a long, emotional, draining, and lonely journey.
Dad of more than one severely handicapped kid here. I have found the journey the greatest part of my life for going on 25 years. Not at all draining or lonely, and, because of our children, filled with joy even on days when there was tragedy.
Not trying to dis OP or the work they have done.
Dad of more than one severely handicapped kid here. I have found the journey the greatest part of my life for going on 25 years. Not at all draining or lonely, and, because of our children, filled with joy even on days when there was tragedy.
Not trying to dis OP or the work they have done.
is it that hard for people to assume OP meant "can be" rather than "is"?
I just wanted feedback on the app! heheh No, I'm grateful for all the feedback, and indeed meant "can be". Thanks for your support.
Good luck, broseph!
Words are important to me. And OP did in fact mean something different. Props to both of you.
So it's basically a blog and a forum, but in an app?
First pertinent criticism I've seen.
Fair enough. We try to offer a more relevant experience by reformatting the "blog posts" into more digestible chunks of content as decks of cards / guides. Forums: we're not even there yet, I wish.
We're working on new features that will make part of the experience more guided, and we'll focus on dads that want to work to improve their mental wellbeing and parenting. Sort of a guided micro journaling, with specific commitments around specific dad skills.
We're working on new features that will make part of the experience more guided, and we'll focus on dads that want to work to improve their mental wellbeing and parenting. Sort of a guided micro journaling, with specific commitments around specific dad skills.
Cool concept, but I don't really understand the value here. I have to pay to view articles that could likely be found online for free or have close alternatives?
I think it's cool that you were able to find a community, build a knowledge base of content for, and create an app for. That's impressive itself.
I just don't think I'd ever use it. I have more than enough resources already to figure out the dad thing, this is just another one to remember and one i'd probably not trust as much as a book, close relatives/friends, vetted articles on the internet.
I think it's cool that you were able to find a community, build a knowledge base of content for, and create an app for. That's impressive itself.
I just don't think I'd ever use it. I have more than enough resources already to figure out the dad thing, this is just another one to remember and one i'd probably not trust as much as a book, close relatives/friends, vetted articles on the internet.
Not a dad, but I imagine a bunch of people would be ready to pay a nominal amount for a decent lost of compiled resources and a community.
I am and I'm not willing to pay for that. Love the idea but it seems greedy to charge for freely available text-content. r/daddit acts as a pretty good aggregator of this info already (downside - you have to go on reddit).
yeah people will pay for just about anything packaged in a better form. These types of things come and go though. Hoping the author the very best they can make this work long term!
I'm into it. I see that a lot of content is either relevant to US/English speaking dads, or hard to understand to "those other" dads, but still see some nice content I can relate to. There is definitely a room for it and I love the attempt to create community. Would love to see such thing in my native tongue.
I fully agree on that "a blog and a forum, but in an app" opinion, but I still like that. It's hard to find sites that provides a lot of resources in clear form, even if paid. Sites with clickbaity titles with barely any content and ads on 70% of the page is becoming a on my local sites. I miss old school forums and simple web pages. I browse on mobile a lot and haven't seen more then 3-4 mobile friendly sites that were actually mobile friendly, so an app suits me.
I absolutely hate navigation and all negatives I found are UI related.
- Swipe left on every paragraph? A big no!
- It's not comfortable (physically) to do that all the time. I haven't really used an app that requires that, ever.
- It's hard to grasp larger context (especially when using second language)
- There is no way of copying text - oh come on, how am I supposed to use a dictionary, or send part of text (the app sends the whole screen)?
- Many places requires using the "x" button at the very top. Sorry, it's around 7 years since a had a phone where I could do that with one hand.
- It displays "full screen", hiding my system-native navigation buttons, so I can't get out of settings easily.
- It's even worse when reading an article - system navigation "back" button does nothing. That is just too aggressive for me.
- There is a "like"/heart button on every page, but it's hard to tell what it does. I found it eventually, but by accident. It also doesn't say where is the "card" I liked - what article was that from?
Also I find it a bit too expensive, as this will not be anything I'm relying on. I would prefer it to be one time payment, not a subscription. I know, I know, "it's just $3" (or whatever it is, I see my local currency), but to be honest I have way to many "just $3" apps and services already and am not going to invest in any more of them. It's slightly more expensive then lowest google drive/one subscription. For me a one time payment is easier to control and accept, as it feels more like buying a newspaper or book.
I fully agree on that "a blog and a forum, but in an app" opinion, but I still like that. It's hard to find sites that provides a lot of resources in clear form, even if paid. Sites with clickbaity titles with barely any content and ads on 70% of the page is becoming a on my local sites. I miss old school forums and simple web pages. I browse on mobile a lot and haven't seen more then 3-4 mobile friendly sites that were actually mobile friendly, so an app suits me.
I absolutely hate navigation and all negatives I found are UI related.
- Swipe left on every paragraph? A big no!
- It's not comfortable (physically) to do that all the time. I haven't really used an app that requires that, ever.
- It's hard to grasp larger context (especially when using second language)
- There is no way of copying text - oh come on, how am I supposed to use a dictionary, or send part of text (the app sends the whole screen)?
- Many places requires using the "x" button at the very top. Sorry, it's around 7 years since a had a phone where I could do that with one hand.
- It displays "full screen", hiding my system-native navigation buttons, so I can't get out of settings easily.
- It's even worse when reading an article - system navigation "back" button does nothing. That is just too aggressive for me.
- There is a "like"/heart button on every page, but it's hard to tell what it does. I found it eventually, but by accident. It also doesn't say where is the "card" I liked - what article was that from?
Also I find it a bit too expensive, as this will not be anything I'm relying on. I would prefer it to be one time payment, not a subscription. I know, I know, "it's just $3" (or whatever it is, I see my local currency), but to be honest I have way to many "just $3" apps and services already and am not going to invest in any more of them. It's slightly more expensive then lowest google drive/one subscription. For me a one time payment is easier to control and accept, as it feels more like buying a newspaper or book.
Thanks (!!) for sharing all this thoughtful feedback. I promise to reply later.
Awesome. I see now that lack of "back" button support is everywhere. This means that I need to use both top left and top right side, even to navigate through forum posts, which are often short. So all the time.
will fix this asap.
Thanks for all the thoughtful feedback. Some great food for thought and some quick fixes needed immediately. Grateful.
Looks nice enough, so I downloaded it. Lost me at the signup step within the first guide. I don’t see the need for this if don’t plan on subscribing to your paid plan. Though I can understand it form a business perspective.
Fair enough. It's a balance between experience and business. And we may adjust this in the future.
Question for you: had the first guide been freely readable without a sign-in, what do you think would have been your reaction when starting the second one and being showing a paywall? (even if there would be ways to warn you softly)
I think I would have liked to have one free guide. Then I can make an informed decision whether to commit to using the app. I also was irritated that the "sign-in/paywall" only showed up after few pages into the guide. Be upfront about it, be honest. Clearly indicate that sign is required.
I’m struggling to find a way to word this that doesn’t seem dismissive or snarky, but I’m genuinely curious so I’m going to take a stab at it anyways.
I am a dad who has felt all of the things you mention and my interest in this platform is high, but you mention that you started this off as an instagram group and it sounds like a lot of your content and focus is going to be around what you learned from people that I don’t identify with at all.
I have never felt comfortable with the social aspects of social media; I don’t have a Facebook or Instagram because I simply don’t feel that the social constructs there are healthy for me. It’s not a dig at people who do it, it just isn’t for me. I like being social, I just have never felt comfortable with the feedback cycle pushed by the big platforms.
Do you feel like your platform is going to be biased or weighted towards the type of people who do value social media? How are you distinguishing yourself from that?
I am a dad who has felt all of the things you mention and my interest in this platform is high, but you mention that you started this off as an instagram group and it sounds like a lot of your content and focus is going to be around what you learned from people that I don’t identify with at all.
I have never felt comfortable with the social aspects of social media; I don’t have a Facebook or Instagram because I simply don’t feel that the social constructs there are healthy for me. It’s not a dig at people who do it, it just isn’t for me. I like being social, I just have never felt comfortable with the feedback cycle pushed by the big platforms.
Do you feel like your platform is going to be biased or weighted towards the type of people who do value social media? How are you distinguishing yourself from that?
I've spent a year researching and talking to parenting professionals, academic researchers, therapists, parent support group organizers (online and offline).
We ended up working with 18 parenting professionals, most of them PhDs, to write content that is relevant to the spectrum of needs that dads are expressing.
The social network side of things was to try and reach dads where I was able to (being a non parenting professional) and validate that dads were indeed looking for such support on this range of subjects. Dads are on social networks and it's a great place to reach out to them. We agree that social networks are a terrible interface to offer support. We use it as a beacon to say, we hear you, we see you and we have our app if you want more qualified support.
The social network side of things was to try and reach dads where I was able to (being a non parenting professional) and validate that dads were indeed looking for such support on this range of subjects. Dads are on social networks and it's a great place to reach out to them. We agree that social networks are a terrible interface to offer support. We use it as a beacon to say, we hear you, we see you and we have our app if you want more qualified support.
I appreciate the recognition and the attempt to make a dad-based community. After having a kid it seems like moms are much better at this kind of thing, and I've felt pretty isolated (even before the pandemic). I've found myself interacting with other moms more than other dads, simply because they're more likely to be the ones putting themselves out there... plus I'm not really the sports/beers/bbq type of guy.
Thank you. Moms are great at creating social networks around them. Dads... not so much, and we're not great at opening up in the first place.
> Dads... not so much, and we're not great at opening up in the first place.
s/we're/some fathers
This isn't universal. Please don't present it as such.
s/we're/some fathers
This isn't universal. Please don't present it as such.
Thank you for creating this app and NOT requiring an account / login just to check it out.
I’m a new dad with a 13 month old and look forward to using this app going forward!
I’m a new dad with a 13 month old and look forward to using this app going forward!
Right?! So many apps don't even let you see the home screen without signing up.
Hi. Dad here. I don't care much about emotional or whatever support.
I do care very much about very practical things. For example right now I'm trying to figure out a way to protect my kid from all the insane and stupid things on the internet ... while at the same time allowing them access all the brilliant knowledge on the internet.
Current plan is two wifi routers one for kids one for adults. And the kids one has a firewall I maintain .. and I'll whitelist whatever sites they request (so long as they are good sites). This maybe is difficult to maintain though.
I do care very much about very practical things. For example right now I'm trying to figure out a way to protect my kid from all the insane and stupid things on the internet ... while at the same time allowing them access all the brilliant knowledge on the internet.
Current plan is two wifi routers one for kids one for adults. And the kids one has a firewall I maintain .. and I'll whitelist whatever sites they request (so long as they are good sites). This maybe is difficult to maintain though.
How did you get the parenting professionals to write the guides? Did you pay out of your pocket to write the guides and be available for on-demand support initially? Reason I am asking is I am working on something in a different health field and want to know how to convince the right medical professionals to get onboard.
Great question. Worked hard to convince a couple of higher profile parenting professional to join as advisors. No cash but a tiny share of equity. Then used that and the early traction that I could demonstrate on the Instagram account and our MVP to approach other parenting professionals and it snowballed from here. But it took in between 2 to 6 months per professional (we ended up with 16 professional partners - unpaid for now until the app gains traction) so I'd say that you need to be very organized and approach many people in parallel. If you email me, I can share more details.
Thank you. How can I find your email?
Soon-to-be-dad of twin girls (due in June), downloaded the app and it looks nice. I'm wondering if there's a way to connect with other Dad's of say twins in my area. Also interested to see if your partnering with other content from Dad's on YouTube. Nice job, and I signed up for the Grow Membership!
I'm a dad of twin girls too. The only advice you're going to need for the first two years is "don't worry, it does get easier". After that it becomes insanely fun and much easier than parenting just one as they have each other to keep amused.
well, there you go, who needs Dadditude when the HN community is looking out for each other like this! (As a dad of 1, I feel triggered by your last words... I wish we'd bought a duo pack)
Ha. You wouldn’t be happy with that purchase for the first two years, that bit is a living hell.
Father of 5 with 3 yr old identical twins. Hopefully you’ve got family nearby to help, if not look around and lost on facebook nanny groups and look for a nanny who’s had twins. Makes a HUGE difference.
I found talking to other dad's that were not in my area was helpful. I like getting the outside opinion and support but I don't want to see them at the grocery or the pub.
Oh!! <3
A sort of "Buddy System" where you get paired with other dads in same situation, yes!! It's on the roadmap.
Honestly, I agree that it can be draining and lonely. That doesn't mean it isn't rewarding or that it is somehow regrettable. Maybe it is just me, but I do feel that men in general have trouble sharing the load they carry. Being busy, which you definitely are if you are parenting little kids, will make that self evident. If you aren't able to share your thoughts and emotions, it can make you feel both of those things. I am a bit of an introvert so I drift in this direction at times and am always refreshed when I talk to other parents for a bit. I should do it more, but it is not in my nature. I could see a resource like this being useful.
Just a bit of a warning with the whole login blockade that seems to be rubbing people the wrong way. At least for Apple, having a quick install -> uninstall flow for your app completely tanks your app store ranking
Gotcha, thanks for the heads up. You mean, short time between install and uninstall?
We'll need to balance that with the need to keep the lights on. People seem generally OK with signing-up to post a question or tip but to read a free guide, there is resistance. Hey, that's why posting the HN is so great!
Thanks for your feedback.
This is a cool concept and I applaud your efforts to focus on improving parenting for Dads. With my close friends I have an outlet to vent about all the challenges of parenting and I find that most helpful - to be heard and to hear their challenges. In general there’s no “safe space” to vent about how difficult parenting is. If you do it on social media you’re likely to get skewered or misinterpreted - just look at this thread as an example. To the degree you can create a safe space to vent and feel heard without judgment I think that’s the greatest potential value.
Targeting dads specifically might be kinda like all the resources out there specifically for mums? Why not put this out there for parents?
I’m increasingly aware of my insecurities (largely thanks to The Blindboy Podcast, which started as a book promo and then mental-health-for-men and now it’s for everyone, he says, after growing up a bit more), and I’m more willing to read and learn from advice targeted at women, and not take it personally that I’m not included.
Maybe dadditude will be another bridge to better parenting in general, to help us grow up so our actual and ideal selves overlap.
I’m increasingly aware of my insecurities (largely thanks to The Blindboy Podcast, which started as a book promo and then mental-health-for-men and now it’s for everyone, he says, after growing up a bit more), and I’m more willing to read and learn from advice targeted at women, and not take it personally that I’m not included.
Maybe dadditude will be another bridge to better parenting in general, to help us grow up so our actual and ideal selves overlap.
It is incredible amount of time you invest in development... However, as father of tree, I'm not into apps and generally I would never ever look for "life hacks" online. Maybe I'm too old, but I prefer personal sharing with other families or even talk about fatherhood with other friends in pub. It is actually very stress revealing to socialize IRL. More screen time makes me more anxious. Sorry about that, just my personal opinion.
Btw, fatherhood has so many attributes. But definitely not "lonely".
Btw, fatherhood has so many attributes. But definitely not "lonely".
Soon-to-be-dad here, I’m going to give this a spin.
So far I really appreciate that I can just open the app and have a look, no account creation or anything. Truly a breath of fresh air.
It looks quite clean too, nice work!
Thanks! It's still early days but we're trying to create an experience that offers a break from the craziness of the rest of our internet experience. No ads, subdued design, relatable illustrations on launch. Some might find it too bland. We'll improve.
Played with it for 5 min. Decent free content, abysmal privacy. They keep your info as long as they deem necessary, and almost everything required linking an account. 2/5 stars, uninstalled.
Thanks so much for your work. I am a father of two and also recently assumed the role of father figure to my 8 year old nephew. I’ll definitely be checking this out.
You're welcome. Don't hesitate to reach out with comments or questions in the future over email - from within the app.
I don’t know why so many comments are railing against the characterization of fatherhood as being a ‘long, emotional, draining, and lonely journey.’ If you’re a father and have never experienced any of that then bully for you. I have. I can absolutely say that fatherhood is the biggest blessing of my life next to my marriage and I also agree with the quote. It’s possible for something to be both a blessing and difficult, draining, and all the rest.
I like to say that being a parent didn't make me happier on a day to day basis, but it made me more fulfilled; which makes me happier overall. Long term enjoyment of my life, vs short term enjoyment of any one day.
That's a good way to put it. I think there's also an element of sacrifice if you're even at least trying to be a good parent. And I'm more and more convinced that sacrifice is the ultimate source of fulfillment, as counterintuitive as that might sound.
In my case it did make me happier day to day, and also waaaay more fulfilled. I wish I had kids earlier.
How old are your kids, if you don't mind me asking? I wonder if a lot of opposing and strong opinions in this thread are due to different parenting experiences at different ages (of parents and children). I've been a dad for almost six years now and I think that's long enough to say there are definitely different experiences at different years and stages of growth and development.
5 y/o but it's been good all the time, hope it goes on like this :)
This is my experience exactly. Very well stated.
Thanks. Beautiful articulation. We've spoken to countless father support organizations over the past year (local, online) and these are the 4 most accurate words I could find to describe the stories I've heard.
This article helps understand the state of affairs for dads right now (and by all means, it's not any better for moms - it's worse)
https://www.parents.com/parenting/dads/sad-dads/
"A 2014 study published in Pediatrics found that depression among new dads increases by 68 percent during the first five years of Baby's life."
In 2014, when dads were barely starting to become a serious subject of academic research...
I'll check out that article. I'd like to commend Anthony Bradley's work to you. It's a tangent to what you're working on. He focuses a lot on the relationship between fathers and sons specifically but I'm sure you'd find lots of interesting stuff on his socials, podcast, etc.
https://twitter.com/drantbradley
https://twitter.com/drantbradley
Thank you, will take a look. This entire project has been so eye opening. Helping me see fatherhood from more than my little corner. And things are even more fascinating when you look at the dynamics around men and fathers in other countries and cultures.
Is "lonely" one of the top 4 adjectives you'd pick to describe fatherhood? top 25? Maybe if they've described the costs in terms of benefits (as you did) it would be more accurate; I think they might mean it CAN BE emotional, draining, (still not sure about lonely) AT TIMES. If I was betting on it I'd guess they came to this characterization while trying to come up with their call to action, (probably subconsciously). Nothing sinister just off the mark.
I think it depends on how you interpret lonely. I've always had a great support system in family and friends so I haven't been physically lonely. But feeling a sense of failure or that I'm dealing with a specific issue that no one around me understands does make me feel lonely or isolated. From other comments in the thread I got the impression that OP has done a lot of research that led them to use "lonely" as one of the main emotions worth mentioning in their pitch.
> If you’re a father and have never experienced any of that then bully for you
I guess this was autocorrect, did you mean "good" or something else?
I guess this was autocorrect, did you mean "good" or something else?
"Bully for you" is an idiom that basically means "good for you" https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Bully+for+you!
Bully as an adjective means "good". It's mostly archaic at this point, but you do still hear people use the idiom "bully for you" occasionally. Theodore Roosevelt liked to use the adjective, and he is where the term "bully pulpit" came from.
I don't know about "lonely," but I feel bad for the partner of any parent who's never found parenthood to be difficult or emotionally draining, since I think the most likely explanation is that that parent isn't pulling their weight.
I pretty much lost all my friends once I had kids. I could not figure out how to balance working, being a father and having a social life. So the social life lost out. Its been 10 years and I have still not found the time to get new friends and not even sure I would know how now. Pretty much entirely related to having kids. Don't get me wrong, would not change a thing as far as my kids go and most of it is on me for not being able to figure it out but it definitely led to loneliness on my part.
Thanks for sharing. Feels very relatable, including "would not change a thing as far as my kids go". There is lies some of the challenge isn't it? Which leads to the feeling of gilt that has come out in our discussions with dads. "How can this be the happiest time of my life and also the hardest?" And since they don't have the outlet to share this, they keep that to themselves, with adverse consequences.
I don't want to pry but did you lose those friends or was it a pause in your relationship? I had kids earlier than most of my friends, and like you, my social life got put on hold. Now that the kids are older, I've been able to get together with those friends again - although the burden is often on them now to work around kids' schedules.
Are your kids involved in sports or group activities?
For me, after I had kids, almost all my non-work social interaction was with parents of other kids who were involved in the same activities.
No, once you are a parent, you are not spending Friday night at a bar with your buddies. That part of your life is over (at least until your kids are grown).
For me, after I had kids, almost all my non-work social interaction was with parents of other kids who were involved in the same activities.
No, once you are a parent, you are not spending Friday night at a bar with your buddies. That part of your life is over (at least until your kids are grown).
Great idea, as a recent new Dad can definitely see the value of this. What is the technology you used to develop it? Flutter...?
“Being a dad is a long, emotional, draining, and lonely journey.”
This statement seems like a useful filter for finding your target audience.
This statement seems like a useful filter for finding your target audience.
Even with 7-8 hours of childcare I'm struggling to find time to code. How do you find time?
My son just turned 13, so things are a little bit easier at home. I first had the idea for this service 10 years ago but "life" got in the way... in the best possible way... and so here I am, after a "short" delay.
Downloading now and will come back to this with more comprehensive commentary!
Appreciated.
I mean r/daddit...
...is an inspiration for sure! And a proof of the need for more support for dads. But it's also a gigantic mess. We're trying to build a resource for dads wrapped in a more quiet experience.
I'm a Dad who wants to improve his parenting, I'll give it a look and let you know!
I will say that I was initially a bit confused by the web page; it took me a minute of looking around for a register/login link, for sample guides, or for the community boards... before I realized that the web page is just a brochure for the mobile apps and a place to link your 'gram. I prefer to consume long-form content on my PC rather than my phone, so that was a bit of a disappointment.
On downloading the Android app, I was greeted with this error message:
https://i.imgur.com/gi0MfZz.png
Hopefully that's just HN's Dad hug of doom (I'm on solid wifi and have a great network connection; it's almost certainly not on my end as the message implies).
Starting to page through the app now; looks like you have lots of content! I'll let you know when I have more time to really dig into a few articles and the features.
Another place I go to for Dadditude-like conversations is https://www.reddit.com/r/daddit. We do have a very limited policy for self-promotion, see https://www.reddit.com/r/daddit/wiki/blogs for details (or message the mods), in particular self-promotion should be <<10% of your content. But if you are already a redditor who wants to help fathers you're probably already there, encouraging and commiserating with us over people who call dads parenting 'babysitting', cleaning up the messes of our kids, and trying to be better dads...
PS: I'll echo and slightly disagree with the sibling commenter who was distracted by the first paragraph of your pitch: "Being a dad is a long, emotional, draining, and lonely journey. Through our research we learned that dads want to improve their parenting but are too shy to ask for help, and are tired of reading content online written for mums. We set out to fix that and create a platform that would help dads feel seen, validated, and supported."
Wow, that's a depressing framing to everything that follows. Try something more positive, and be willing to qualify it with some weasel words where you have to: Being a Dad should be an rewarding, amazing, fulfilling, awesome journey, that has commensurately high challenges and requirements, and it can sometimes feel draining or lonely. Asking for help is hard, and it's difficult to find quality, precise help when you do ask. We want to help dads be the best Dads they can be, recognize the work they're putting in, and support them in the important role they have in their families.
Good luck!
I will say that I was initially a bit confused by the web page; it took me a minute of looking around for a register/login link, for sample guides, or for the community boards... before I realized that the web page is just a brochure for the mobile apps and a place to link your 'gram. I prefer to consume long-form content on my PC rather than my phone, so that was a bit of a disappointment.
On downloading the Android app, I was greeted with this error message:
https://i.imgur.com/gi0MfZz.png
Hopefully that's just HN's Dad hug of doom (I'm on solid wifi and have a great network connection; it's almost certainly not on my end as the message implies).
Starting to page through the app now; looks like you have lots of content! I'll let you know when I have more time to really dig into a few articles and the features.
Another place I go to for Dadditude-like conversations is https://www.reddit.com/r/daddit. We do have a very limited policy for self-promotion, see https://www.reddit.com/r/daddit/wiki/blogs for details (or message the mods), in particular self-promotion should be <<10% of your content. But if you are already a redditor who wants to help fathers you're probably already there, encouraging and commiserating with us over people who call dads parenting 'babysitting', cleaning up the messes of our kids, and trying to be better dads...
PS: I'll echo and slightly disagree with the sibling commenter who was distracted by the first paragraph of your pitch: "Being a dad is a long, emotional, draining, and lonely journey. Through our research we learned that dads want to improve their parenting but are too shy to ask for help, and are tired of reading content online written for mums. We set out to fix that and create a platform that would help dads feel seen, validated, and supported."
Wow, that's a depressing framing to everything that follows. Try something more positive, and be willing to qualify it with some weasel words where you have to: Being a Dad should be an rewarding, amazing, fulfilling, awesome journey, that has commensurately high challenges and requirements, and it can sometimes feel draining or lonely. Asking for help is hard, and it's difficult to find quality, precise help when you do ask. We want to help dads be the best Dads they can be, recognize the work they're putting in, and support them in the important role they have in their families.
Good luck!
Hi Dad. Dad here. Here's _general_ guidelines for being a competent Dad:
Remember SOS:
S = Self-awareness. You need a sense of your own insecurities, biases and an awareness of your feelings.
O = Objectivity. With that self-awareness hopefully comes objectivity. The ability to look at the world from your child's perspective and not in a manner governed by your own ambitions, dreams, fears and hopes.
S = Selflessness. This can be the grueling part. Sacrificing other priorities (sleep, work, wind down time, personal interests) to support your child in their interests, with their difficulties, and often to expose them to different activities and ideas so they can identify what is right for them.
My kids are older now, but I still run down this list frequently in my mind as a way of ensuring I am preparing the kids for life in age appropriate and healthy ways.
Remember SOS:
S = Self-awareness. You need a sense of your own insecurities, biases and an awareness of your feelings.
O = Objectivity. With that self-awareness hopefully comes objectivity. The ability to look at the world from your child's perspective and not in a manner governed by your own ambitions, dreams, fears and hopes.
S = Selflessness. This can be the grueling part. Sacrificing other priorities (sleep, work, wind down time, personal interests) to support your child in their interests, with their difficulties, and often to expose them to different activities and ideas so they can identify what is right for them.
My kids are older now, but I still run down this list frequently in my mind as a way of ensuring I am preparing the kids for life in age appropriate and healthy ways.
Thanks for sharing. Love this.
> and not in a manner governed by your own ambitions, dreams, fears and hopes.
and emotions, personal childhood trauma, stress...
We have some great content on "Parenting Blindspots".
> and not in a manner governed by your own ambitions, dreams, fears and hopes.
and emotions, personal childhood trauma, stress...
We have some great content on "Parenting Blindspots".
Error message: Eeeek. Sorry for the less than optimal first experience. It seems fine on my end though. Please consider visiting a bit later? Looking fwd to your additional feedback.
r/daddit: I'm a long time lurker and I'm so grateful for this resource. Sounds like you're quite involved there. Thank you! I've wondered how I could introduce Dadditude there but I think I prefer to wait until the offering is more differentiated. Unless you think there is a way to do it now.
Thank you for the rephrasing suggestions, that is so helpful and I'll definitely incorporate some of this next time I pitch. I love the concept of weasel words (as a non-native speaker).
r/daddit: I'm a long time lurker and I'm so grateful for this resource. Sounds like you're quite involved there. Thank you! I've wondered how I could introduce Dadditude there but I think I prefer to wait until the offering is more differentiated. Unless you think there is a way to do it now.
Thank you for the rephrasing suggestions, that is so helpful and I'll definitely incorporate some of this next time I pitch. I love the concept of weasel words (as a non-native speaker).
Don't want an app, only want the web.
Also... > Being a dad is a long, emotional, draining, and lonely journey.
Paints being a Dad as something I've not experienced. So perhaps your app isn't for me.
And your website doesn't include a cookie banner, instead just begins tracking me through Google. So you don't meet your own GDPR statement in your privacy policy.
Hard pass.
Also... > Being a dad is a long, emotional, draining, and lonely journey.
Paints being a Dad as something I've not experienced. So perhaps your app isn't for me.
And your website doesn't include a cookie banner, instead just begins tracking me through Google. So you don't meet your own GDPR statement in your privacy policy.
Hard pass.
App: Yeah, we wanted to be able to control the full experience and remove distractions (other tabs etc). But the future might include a web component. Why do you only want the web, if you don't mind me asking?
Cookie banner, apologies, we're fixing this. No harm intended. We actually track as little as possible.
Cookie banner, apologies, we're fixing this. No harm intended. We actually track as little as possible.
I don't interact with forums on my phone. Long form discussion is far better used where I can type using a keyboard.
To give it a try:
web: http://www.dadditude.app
ios: https://apps.apple.com/app/id1558653576
android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dadditude....
> Being a dad is a long, emotional, draining, and lonely journey.
This is a strong, negative and questionable statement.
This is a strong, negative and questionable statement.
I think long and emotional are pretty much a given, and aren't at all negative.
Draining can be seen as negative but, if you see it in the same vein as "working on complex problems all day is mentally draining" (which is how I assume it was meant), then it loses that negative connotation.
That really only leaves lonely. When you consider how many moms groups there are, all boosting each other up with discussions of how wonderful they are (and, in some contexts, reassurance that they're not bad moms because of something)... dads (in general) are lonelier; they just don't have as much available support. It's not like that for all dads but, as a group trend overall, I'd say it's a fact.
Draining can be seen as negative but, if you see it in the same vein as "working on complex problems all day is mentally draining" (which is how I assume it was meant), then it loses that negative connotation.
That really only leaves lonely. When you consider how many moms groups there are, all boosting each other up with discussions of how wonderful they are (and, in some contexts, reassurance that they're not bad moms because of something)... dads (in general) are lonelier; they just don't have as much available support. It's not like that for all dads but, as a group trend overall, I'd say it's a fact.
Agreed. Sounds like something a person would say after lamenting having children, paints fathers as helpless and pathetic. Personally, it's one the most rewarding challenges that one can step up to.
I don't agree. You yourself describe it as a challenge - if it wasn't hard it wouldn't be a challenge.
Of course it's long, it's something you start often in your 20s or 30s and hopefully do for the rest of your life.
Of course it's emotional. It's one of the largest life experiences many of us will go through.
Of course it can be draining at times. It takes a lot out of you, and it can be hard after
Painting people as helpless and pathetic because they're finding something hard and still doing it and while seeking help to improve seems ridiculous.
Perhaps the issue people are having with this is that they're inserting "and not worth it" or "not rewarding" at the end, which isn't there. With "but worth it" added, would so many of you disagree?
Of course it's long, it's something you start often in your 20s or 30s and hopefully do for the rest of your life.
Of course it's emotional. It's one of the largest life experiences many of us will go through.
Of course it can be draining at times. It takes a lot out of you, and it can be hard after
Painting people as helpless and pathetic because they're finding something hard and still doing it and while seeking help to improve seems ridiculous.
Perhaps the issue people are having with this is that they're inserting "and not worth it" or "not rewarding" at the end, which isn't there. With "but worth it" added, would so many of you disagree?
I agree.
Being a dad is fire and ice. Some wonderful times, some hard times. Not lonely at all. I get to help good, small people become good, big people, and I grow along the way.
Being a dad is fire and ice. Some wonderful times, some hard times. Not lonely at all. I get to help good, small people become good, big people, and I grow along the way.
I substituted "Being a dad _can be and commonly is_ a long, emotional, draining, and lonely journey", perhaps unfairly. This could really just be seen as an expanded version of "being a dad is hard", which some people will identify with and others won't.
This is also something that could be spoken from the perspective of that person.
"Being a dad is a long, emotional, draining, and lonely journey _for me_."
This is also something that could be spoken from the perspective of that person.
"Being a dad is a long, emotional, draining, and lonely journey _for me_."
yes, good point. I should have added "can be", and the platform currently is targeted at dads that identify with that statement.
Yep, my reaction exactly. That's a very bitter take on the fatherhood.
Perhaps the context here is that of single fathers?
Perhaps the context here is that of single fathers?
This is questionable projection for something innocuous
Yep. I’m a single dad of three and it’s amazing on all fronts.
[deleted]
andrew_(17)
First time posting on HN. We're looking for feedback from parents.
We're 2 dads who started working on Dadditude in the midst of covid lockdowns last year.
Being a dad can be a long, emotional, draining, and lonely journey. Through our research we learned that dads want to improve their parenting but are too shy to ask for help, and are tired of reading content online written for mums. We set out to fix that and create a platform that would help dads feel seen, validated, and supported. By helping dads, we hope to support moms and partners too, because all parents deserve more support.
Quick timeline so far: We started a community of dads on Instagram last Feb to test hypothesis and learn about their needs. We then launched an MVP in April, a super simple app serving weekly coaching guides created with a parenting professional partner. We made several updates in summer and fall, working like crazy in the background to convince parenting professionals to write coaching guides for us. Especially hard when you're a nobody. But people are kind and we found all the support we needed. We launched a v1 app mid-December with 50 coaching guides and a more full fledge community board (and a paid membership tier). We've just added on-demand parenting professional support in Jan. And last week added a picture board for dads to upload pics of their families, and that's become more popular than the forums!! ← I knew dads wanted to feel more visible but I love these discoveries!
Super proud of the work done so far, but still so much to do to smooth out the product experience, and get closer to PFM. So much learning.
web: http://www.dadditude.app ios: https://apps.apple.com/app/id1558653576 android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dadditude....
(part of the experience is behind a paywall, but you can test nearly all paid features once for free - so long as you register through Apple or Google)
All thoughts and feedback welcome in the comments below, especially if you're a parent entrepreneur. TYIA
[edited top statement to "can be long..." for the dads here who felt it was too gloomy - it was]