Are smartphones serving as adult pacifiers?(washingtonpost.com)
washingtonpost.com
Are smartphones serving as adult pacifiers?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/02/26/cellphones-security-blankets/
78 comments
Quick take: this is second rate research (b-school professors have all the irrelevance of real academics with none of the substance).
The research from UPenn seems blissfully unaware of any previous research on attachment objects from psychology. They start with a click bait title and then try to bolt on some poorly construed studies. You would never throw away an attachment object after 2 years. A smartphone is a meta object that acts as a portal to a great variety of potentialities. Trying to describe it in terms of a physical object ignores the last 50 years of media theory.
There is the CS's famed eletism and gate keeping. Just because its not Harvard or Stanford its not relevant?
I am a CS grad myself but there is so much toxicity in the community when looking at places like HN.
And I am not saying anything about your point. Maybe you are right, I just hate that you start off with 'b-school bad' argument.
UPenn is a well regarded school. Its business school is generally regarded to be the best of the lot. Wharton professors are generally not on the receiving side of elitism. This research is simply very low quality. It maybe gratifies a certain sensibility. We all know that using our phones too much can be a problem and this research makes for a pithy form of name calling. But beyond a quick insult against a perceived threat the core thesis just makes no sense in light of the past 50 years of research on psychology and media.
Then make a point that the research sucks. Don't entrench a system of "elite" universities, especially when it's the inverse here.
I think you mistook "b-school" to mean "second tier". The GP meant "business school".
I think what they actually said was "Just because it's business school it's not relevant"
My initial vitriol against academics was perhaps unnecessary. The research is clearly uninterested in the large body of serious research around this subject. It is perhaps unfair to say that low quality research is inherent to business school academics in general.
Well, somebody can just falsify that claim by posting some well known excellent scientific research written by business school academics.
Which is why we don't judge research based on single studies but rather of a population of them.
What does the population average of business school research look like?
What does the population average of business school research look like?
Which is why we don't judge a race based on individuals but rather of a population of them.
What does the population average of <insert race here> look like ?
What does the population average of <insert race here> look like ?
Race is not a empirically valid construct
> You would never throw away an attachment object after 2 years.
When upgrading to a new device, even though all the data is copied over and the Home Screen looks identical, I still briefly feel a bit of empathy(?) for the old device as I’m packing it up getting ready to sell it. It’s been in my pocket or at my side pretty much 24x7 for the past 2-3 years, and if nothing else I feel a bit mindful and thankful for its service.
There’s definitely a level of attachment there, even if it doesn’t meet some clinical definition of “attachment object”.
When upgrading to a new device, even though all the data is copied over and the Home Screen looks identical, I still briefly feel a bit of empathy(?) for the old device as I’m packing it up getting ready to sell it. It’s been in my pocket or at my side pretty much 24x7 for the past 2-3 years, and if nothing else I feel a bit mindful and thankful for its service.
There’s definitely a level of attachment there, even if it doesn’t meet some clinical definition of “attachment object”.
It’s common for kids to run through multiple identical attachment objects, especially when they break easily and have therefore been replaced before.
Here’s one study where 5 of 18 kids decide to keep a “new” duplicate in favor of the original item. http://minddevlab.yale.edu/sites/default/files/files/Childre...
Here’s one study where 5 of 18 kids decide to keep a “new” duplicate in favor of the original item. http://minddevlab.yale.edu/sites/default/files/files/Childre...
I read that study the opposite way around. That children will accept duplicates if an object is "desirable" but they have no particular attachment to it. However if there is a strong existing attachment to a specific object (e.g. security blanket) the copy is less valued.
You literally throw away actual pacifiers and replace them.
I'm currently watching a major military conflict unfold in near real-time via Reddit, so I'm going to go with either no, or yes but the definition of pacifier is really weird.
Glibness aside, I think sure, for some people all of the time, and for all people some of the time, a phone is just a pacifier. But it's also our window into basically the entire wealth of human knowledge, indexed better than it has ever been in all of history. So I really think that's something worth not selling so short.
Glibness aside, I think sure, for some people all of the time, and for all people some of the time, a phone is just a pacifier. But it's also our window into basically the entire wealth of human knowledge, indexed better than it has ever been in all of history. So I really think that's something worth not selling so short.
> But it's also our window into basically the entire wealth of human knowledge
If you're consuming all of your coverage through reddit, I think you're conflating one side's propaganda with "knowledge". It (the internet) used to be a window into a wealth of human knowledge, but at the current state of things it is merely another vector to help you mainline <insert large company's> propaganda engine and, for most that don't run ad blockers, stuff you full of advertisements.
Ten, maybe 15 years ago your statement would have been more true, but the internet has become progressively smaller and the content more curated by big money interests than any time in the past.
If you're consuming all of your coverage through reddit, I think you're conflating one side's propaganda with "knowledge". It (the internet) used to be a window into a wealth of human knowledge, but at the current state of things it is merely another vector to help you mainline <insert large company's> propaganda engine and, for most that don't run ad blockers, stuff you full of advertisements.
Ten, maybe 15 years ago your statement would have been more true, but the internet has become progressively smaller and the content more curated by big money interests than any time in the past.
Reddit and Facebook basically the same thing these days. Both seem to have audiences 35+, both are full of PR/propaganda and both have valuable niche information.
The internet sucks now, basically.
The internet sucks now, basically.
There is now an infinitely larger internet that's not Facebook or Reddit than there ever was. The internet is just as awesome as it used to be, and now the awesomeness has virtually infinite scale. Just don't visit Reddit and Facebook (and Twitter).
I am a millennial, the source of reddits power. I am also blinded by it. How do you access the rest of this infinitely awesome internet? Google searching for things doesn't help me and it seems like most new things are behind locks/discord instances.
Context: Am early 20's. Am also on mobile atm, so sorry for any bad formatting.
Follow links, not search engines. Use HN, or link aggregators to find sites interesting to you.
I've founf goodwebsites.org to have some interesting reads - but that is only curated by page quality, not content. Some sites linked there have very innacurate content much like the rest of the internet.
Also, https://1mb.club/ has a list of sites, many of which are interesting.
Follow links, not search engines. Use HN, or link aggregators to find sites interesting to you.
I've founf goodwebsites.org to have some interesting reads - but that is only curated by page quality, not content. Some sites linked there have very innacurate content much like the rest of the internet.
Also, https://1mb.club/ has a list of sites, many of which are interesting.
Thanks! I'll look around. Tragic that search engines no longer work.
No problem.
It's how it goes. Any system that can be gamed will be - it's just a matter of time. I do have a short list of search engines at https://a-shared-404.com/other-stuff/ , some of those may help on occasion as well.
It's how it goes. Any system that can be gamed will be - it's just a matter of time. I do have a short list of search engines at https://a-shared-404.com/other-stuff/ , some of those may help on occasion as well.
I use kagi and it's "noncommerial" lens that attempts to surface some of the old-school content internet randos create. It works pretty well. (It does end up including some commercially sourced content but IME it's less of the typical ad-sponsored nonsense.)
My impression of Reddit is that it's riddled with 15-21 year olds. I wonder if there's some accurate demographic data available.
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Could be. Maybe it's just the sub's I find myself in. Or some kind of selection bias.
I recently re-discovered the Wikipedia Current Events portal, located here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Current_events. It’s an unbiased index of major events happening in the world crowdsourced and vetted by Wikipedia contributors with sources to the news articles they came from.
This + non-front Reddit subs like /r/PoliticalDiscussion + Hacker News gives me as much of a 360 degree sphere of coverage as I can come up with that doesn’t take hours to curate and vet.
That said, yes, the Internet is an ad-optimized heap of disinformation, misinformation, and FUD, generally speaking.
(I found /r/politicaldiscussion and /r/neutralpolitics by searching for “unbiased political subreddits site:reddit.com” on Google. I always recommend newcomers to Reddit to unsubscribe from all of the default subreddits (as they are heavily manipulated) and use Google to find subs relevant to their interests.)
This + non-front Reddit subs like /r/PoliticalDiscussion + Hacker News gives me as much of a 360 degree sphere of coverage as I can come up with that doesn’t take hours to curate and vet.
That said, yes, the Internet is an ad-optimized heap of disinformation, misinformation, and FUD, generally speaking.
(I found /r/politicaldiscussion and /r/neutralpolitics by searching for “unbiased political subreddits site:reddit.com” on Google. I always recommend newcomers to Reddit to unsubscribe from all of the default subreddits (as they are heavily manipulated) and use Google to find subs relevant to their interests.)
The current internet is captured in semi open but hard to search and discover groups like Slack, Discord, Telegram, Facebook groups etc. That’s where the majority of useful information has moved and just like before Google indexed classical webpages, there’s currently nothing indexing that information because the gates are pretty well defended and the current players don’t have an interest or are actively trying to keep those gates up.
The Internet used to be full of potential, but very empty. I remember.
It took a ton of human labor (literal billions of human-hours) to get as much on as we have now. Unfortunately, that, of course, means for any given topic, the signal-noise ratio suffers (consider, in one's own mind, how much knowledge is useful and how much is pop music lyrics).
It took a ton of human labor (literal billions of human-hours) to get as much on as we have now. Unfortunately, that, of course, means for any given topic, the signal-noise ratio suffers (consider, in one's own mind, how much knowledge is useful and how much is pop music lyrics).
> But it's also our window into basically the entire wealth of human knowledge…
Yes, true, but the article discusses how physical presence of the device itself reassures its owner, and conversely how upsetting it can be for the owner to be without their device. Part of that reassurance may come from, as you say, having a window into the entire wealth of human knowledge, or from having a connection to friends and family, etc.
Yes, true, but the article discusses how physical presence of the device itself reassures its owner, and conversely how upsetting it can be for the owner to be without their device. Part of that reassurance may come from, as you say, having a window into the entire wealth of human knowledge, or from having a connection to friends and family, etc.
I recall that the Japanese were the first to make waterproof mobile phones so that people could keep chatting while taking a shower.
On a personal observation: in the beginning I frequently forgot my phone. Now it is as standard to me as a wallet or keys. I can subconsciously feel its weight in my pocket.
On a personal observation: in the beginning I frequently forgot my phone. Now it is as standard to me as a wallet or keys. I can subconsciously feel its weight in my pocket.
Interestingly I forget my wallet and keys all the time (to the extent it is possible since most trips require driving where I am).
My phone and wedding ring are the only items that give me the "something is missing" spidey sense.
My phone and wedding ring are the only items that give me the "something is missing" spidey sense.
I put a label “INTERNET HATE MACHINE” on my iPad after a while, because what I really used it for was getting outraged by crap on Twitter instead of going to bed. I deleted Twitter.app and started playing casual games instead, and slept slightly better. Finally I got rid of the iPad and moved my phone charger to the far side of my bedroom. My sleep improved a lot. Then I had another baby! All I have the energy for now is shallow web browsing and memes.
Do you say this because the people producing the content are using smartphones to post videos and live updates?
Because I can access the entire wealth of human knowledge just fine by sitting down with my laptop, avoiding some of the issues with having a smartphone on me at all times. I'm currently listening to Digital Minimalism (audiobook on my smartphone, haha) and Cal Newport makes the case that most things should wait until you can get home and use your laptop.
Because I can access the entire wealth of human knowledge just fine by sitting down with my laptop, avoiding some of the issues with having a smartphone on me at all times. I'm currently listening to Digital Minimalism (audiobook on my smartphone, haha) and Cal Newport makes the case that most things should wait until you can get home and use your laptop.
Is legacy media wasting my time with click bait?
Click bait from all content producers exists to waste our time. The one goal of clickbait is to get you to click so their ads load and they make a few cents.
Has anyone seen this trend on YT recently? The videos are much shorter and much more click-baity. I do worry that it's pushing our attentions down down to the lowest common denominator, which seems to be 30-60 seconds.
Has anyone seen this trend on YT recently? The videos are much shorter and much more click-baity. I do worry that it's pushing our attentions down down to the lowest common denominator, which seems to be 30-60 seconds.
there was an indication that YT shorts was able to be gamed, and it was unstoppable. I tested the theory and it was true for a short while, but it looks like google was able to "stop it". If you uploaded a #shorts tagged video it would be fed to everyone seemingly "at random" and you would get a ton of views and interaction. I uploaded a dumb 8 second video about the local mail truck and it got 800 views, far more than any other video i've uploaded in the last decade.
I don't know that google even actually fixed it, i think the idea that it could be gamed sort of fixed it by deluge of #shorts videos, this diluting the pool so that your video was less likely to appear at random.
This is simplified a bit; but the point is, once upon a 2008ish, youtube decided that monetization should be harder, and this was around the time that fully monetized videos were required to be 10 minutes long. This was a paradigm shift, considering that in the old days there were length limits to individual videos imposed on youtube (and google videos), first being quite short (possibly even 10 minutes) and eventually ran out to 30 minutes, and now where i'm unsure if there's even a 'real' limit on video length. I know there are some 20+ hour videos on youtube.
So in order to appease advertisers, youtube made it so content producers had to fill their time with fluff, which is why there was an adage that still holds true - on a computer, when a youtube video starts, press "3" to skip the irrelevant stuff (hey guys its... hit the like and...).
Tiktok and instagram have brought back the drive-by short videos, youtube attempted to capitalize on the short video craze (originally vine et al started the trend, but further back even ytmnd and .webm did it as well), and now it's a race to the bottom. I fully expect the most popular video by view count and impact to be less than 8 seconds long in 2022.
I don't know that google even actually fixed it, i think the idea that it could be gamed sort of fixed it by deluge of #shorts videos, this diluting the pool so that your video was less likely to appear at random.
This is simplified a bit; but the point is, once upon a 2008ish, youtube decided that monetization should be harder, and this was around the time that fully monetized videos were required to be 10 minutes long. This was a paradigm shift, considering that in the old days there were length limits to individual videos imposed on youtube (and google videos), first being quite short (possibly even 10 minutes) and eventually ran out to 30 minutes, and now where i'm unsure if there's even a 'real' limit on video length. I know there are some 20+ hour videos on youtube.
So in order to appease advertisers, youtube made it so content producers had to fill their time with fluff, which is why there was an adage that still holds true - on a computer, when a youtube video starts, press "3" to skip the irrelevant stuff (hey guys its... hit the like and...).
Tiktok and instagram have brought back the drive-by short videos, youtube attempted to capitalize on the short video craze (originally vine et al started the trend, but further back even ytmnd and .webm did it as well), and now it's a race to the bottom. I fully expect the most popular video by view count and impact to be less than 8 seconds long in 2022.
When hasn’t it done so
It's funny to see words like "isolation" when so many people use their phone for what they'd more likely describe as "solitude," but also "protection," and in many cases things like "connection," etc.
So instead of allowing ourselves to be railroaded by someone's unfortunately one-sided choice of descriptors, maybe we should ask:
- Pacifier _and also_ therapeutic assistant?
- Adult _and also_ continually developing human?
Otherwise, playing one side of the dichotomy is by its nature demonstrating something far worse than a smart phone, which itself is a practical ocean of different engagement levels, options, and tools. It's demonstrating a single engagement level, a single option, a single way of using a tool.
So instead of allowing ourselves to be railroaded by someone's unfortunately one-sided choice of descriptors, maybe we should ask:
- Pacifier _and also_ therapeutic assistant?
- Adult _and also_ continually developing human?
Otherwise, playing one side of the dichotomy is by its nature demonstrating something far worse than a smart phone, which itself is a practical ocean of different engagement levels, options, and tools. It's demonstrating a single engagement level, a single option, a single way of using a tool.
At first glance: Very intriguing way to look at it. On second thoughts: The analogy doesn’t seem to hold. People who put their phone away for the weekend actually report feeling happier and more relaxed. I don’t think that would be true of a baby if you take its pacifier away (provided the baby is conditioned to use one for emotional self regulation).
It depends if those feelings of happiness are immediate or eventual. A child does need to eventually give up the comfort of nipple or womb. I am sceptical if people report immediate feelings of happiness, though. That sounds more like novelty and wanting it to be true.
If you took a baby's pacifier away and actually gave it your full attention it probably would.
...are you a parent? Apparently not!
Two parents can give a child their full attention, but infants can be fickle, picky creatures. I've been stuck in quite a few situations where the pacifier got driven off in Mom's car and the backup isn't in my bag - stranded away from supply lines without the required materiel. My son would only pull on his thumb or mine for a couple seconds before wailing...and, yes, trying again, but it was a pretty short attempt and a high duty cycle on the crying.
You do parents a disservice and assume the worst, probably based on a few narcissistic jerks, sure, but if there was anything I or many other parents could do for their kids we would do it. If I could have made my son comfortable in those situations I would have.
Sometimes they don't want Mom and they don't want Dad, they don't have to poop and they don't want to sleep, they don't want to play, they don't want to eat, they don't want to bounce, they don't want to sing....they want their pacifier. Nothing else will do. Not even Grandma...
Two parents can give a child their full attention, but infants can be fickle, picky creatures. I've been stuck in quite a few situations where the pacifier got driven off in Mom's car and the backup isn't in my bag - stranded away from supply lines without the required materiel. My son would only pull on his thumb or mine for a couple seconds before wailing...and, yes, trying again, but it was a pretty short attempt and a high duty cycle on the crying.
You do parents a disservice and assume the worst, probably based on a few narcissistic jerks, sure, but if there was anything I or many other parents could do for their kids we would do it. If I could have made my son comfortable in those situations I would have.
Sometimes they don't want Mom and they don't want Dad, they don't have to poop and they don't want to sleep, they don't want to play, they don't want to eat, they don't want to bounce, they don't want to sing....they want their pacifier. Nothing else will do. Not even Grandma...
That’s precisely why we never introduced a pacifier in the first place. I believe it is a crutch for emotional self-regulation. The peace it brings you now will be paid for tenfold in the future. That being said, I know that it is a hard thing to do as a parent to resist the temptation to use one. I’d just suggest keeping the above in mind. It might give you the strength not to do it in spite of the short and mid term rewards.
Also, in my experience with four kids, the pacifier is most useful as a "sleep prop" for naps and nighttime. It really never let me give my kids less attention while they were up and awake, but it helped us both get some much needed sleep.
I put my smartphone in airplane mode, or turn it off, when it's time to sleep.
I put my smartphone in airplane mode, or turn it off, when it's time to sleep.
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Very true. Wouldn’t need a pacifier in the first place then!
Pacifiers aren’t necessarily bad. We all need some help feel better
Is radio serving as an adult pacifier? Are newspapers serving as adult pacifiers? Are books serving as adult pacifiers?
They're ways of distributing information and how you use them is entirely up to you. I'm sure some people are. Some aren't. It has very little to do with mobile computers with wireless modems.
They're ways of distributing information and how you use them is entirely up to you. I'm sure some people are. Some aren't. It has very little to do with mobile computers with wireless modems.
The analogy to pacifiers may be overly condescending (equating adults to children), but in general I have adopted the view that smartphone usage in public is essentially second-hand smoke, and that hopefully within the next 1-2 decades the public will finally begin to recognize this as widespread addiction and begin setting some limits.
I got into computers when I was in early elementary school, and that began my track toward exploration and software development. There's no doubt that my mom's worries of me being addicted to the computer were absolutely true - entire summers were spent on the computer.
What's different about computer addiction and smartphone addiction is that computer usage is more limited in where you can do it. My computer-addicted young self would not have been able to whip out a desktop computer at a restaurant, barbershop, or waiting in line to pick up an order. But with smartphones essentially being "pocket computers", people can use them anywhere - even driving.
I do believe in personal choice, so I don't want to be heavy handed, but I imagine our society will need to grapple with this problem. I see couples on dates with each other in restaurants, both on their phones nearly the entire time scrolling through endless feeds. I watch sports events where any small break in play people need to pull out their phones. There is no presence anymore, and public space (along with suburbanization) has rapidly eroded over the past 10-15 years since smartphones were invented. Now commercials for phones/5G normalize the idea that you should be able to download/stream a movie on your phone walking down a sidewalk.
There's a balance that needs to be struck here, and it's going to be difficult to reach because we're still relatively in the infancy of these fancy electronic gadgets. Particularly in the US where individualism and personal choice is so deeply part of our culture, it will be difficult to restore the public space so that we can come to expect if you go out in public, people are actually... present and there. But somehow we eventually came to the same conclusion with banning smoking in restaurants et. al.
I got into computers when I was in early elementary school, and that began my track toward exploration and software development. There's no doubt that my mom's worries of me being addicted to the computer were absolutely true - entire summers were spent on the computer.
What's different about computer addiction and smartphone addiction is that computer usage is more limited in where you can do it. My computer-addicted young self would not have been able to whip out a desktop computer at a restaurant, barbershop, or waiting in line to pick up an order. But with smartphones essentially being "pocket computers", people can use them anywhere - even driving.
I do believe in personal choice, so I don't want to be heavy handed, but I imagine our society will need to grapple with this problem. I see couples on dates with each other in restaurants, both on their phones nearly the entire time scrolling through endless feeds. I watch sports events where any small break in play people need to pull out their phones. There is no presence anymore, and public space (along with suburbanization) has rapidly eroded over the past 10-15 years since smartphones were invented. Now commercials for phones/5G normalize the idea that you should be able to download/stream a movie on your phone walking down a sidewalk.
There's a balance that needs to be struck here, and it's going to be difficult to reach because we're still relatively in the infancy of these fancy electronic gadgets. Particularly in the US where individualism and personal choice is so deeply part of our culture, it will be difficult to restore the public space so that we can come to expect if you go out in public, people are actually... present and there. But somehow we eventually came to the same conclusion with banning smoking in restaurants et. al.
I'd hate to see them regulated, or... how would I ever remember anything? With paper? I'd be hosed if I lost it, and I lose... everything.. including my keys and wallet.... all the time, which I also use my phone to find.
The 1990s solution was just to really amplify the public space. Things like the rainforest cafe were very normal aesthetically. We essentially used clickbait in real life.
Smartphones are one half of it. The other half is we have kind of deprecated public spaces as an idea. We hardly even have them besides restaurants!
Even virtually, we don't have anything like true community forms to the degree we used to. Single player epics are a major game genre. Watching netflix is the new pastime, etc. Most of our big cultural things are fairly private now.
We even talk about privacy probably more than any other technical topic, and that is very new. Nobody but pirates would have known what a VPN was till know, and it was common to not care what the NSA knows about you(Ok, a lot of us like me are still like that).
And at the same time, everything has become about sex more than ever before, and even that seems to be more of a private thing than a public Hollywood drama spectacle.
The concept of a "dream job" is widely mocked. Everything seems to be seen as just some infrastructure to support private life.
What do you... do in public exactly? We are told every day it's just place you go to get ready to be at home.
Banning phones would just lead to everyone staring at a wall instead of a phone, until we actually restablish the public sphere as a real thing.
The 1990s solution was just to really amplify the public space. Things like the rainforest cafe were very normal aesthetically. We essentially used clickbait in real life.
Smartphones are one half of it. The other half is we have kind of deprecated public spaces as an idea. We hardly even have them besides restaurants!
Even virtually, we don't have anything like true community forms to the degree we used to. Single player epics are a major game genre. Watching netflix is the new pastime, etc. Most of our big cultural things are fairly private now.
We even talk about privacy probably more than any other technical topic, and that is very new. Nobody but pirates would have known what a VPN was till know, and it was common to not care what the NSA knows about you(Ok, a lot of us like me are still like that).
And at the same time, everything has become about sex more than ever before, and even that seems to be more of a private thing than a public Hollywood drama spectacle.
The concept of a "dream job" is widely mocked. Everything seems to be seen as just some infrastructure to support private life.
What do you... do in public exactly? We are told every day it's just place you go to get ready to be at home.
Banning phones would just lead to everyone staring at a wall instead of a phone, until we actually restablish the public sphere as a real thing.
We've been very unconscious about our acceptance and deployment of technologies, and I don't know that there's really any way around that. It's sort of a Catch-22, technologies empower the individual. Reflecting on it, they tend to create a path of least resistance which is typically isolated (visiting Radio Shack in person as opposed to online). This isolation is inhumane though, we're social animals at heart, but it's way easier to find exactly what you want in the online catalogue of literally everything than it is to move around in the physical world, dealing with x, y, and z. Ultimately, as an arbitrary unit (society?), we've sort of walled ourselves into a really undesirable landscape that I'd argue we're pretty actually fucking averse to.
We hand off these novelties to future generations without any real bearing, all the organizations, traditions, adaptations, and more or less say "You figure it out." And the craziest thing is just the fucking rapidity of it all. Think of life in the 1920's. People have lived that long, 100 years. Imagine the cognitive whiplash watching highways and motor vehicles emerging, radio, television, the nuclear bomb, commercial airliners and transcontinental travel being trivialized, mass warfare, helicopters, wireless communication, calculators, computers, internet and the list goes on - every alteration of the nuanced fiber weave of the social fabric that all those techniques have shorn, altered or displaced.
We have no real reference point in the here and now that can comprehensively assist us in a meaningful convergence, we've sort of been shot into a dark vacuum entirely unconscious of the consequences with the pretense that it's what we desire. But I think we're quickly coming to find, at least those conscious of the implications, is that what we desire isn't necessarily good for us.
But the thing is, I don't think it's probable that we could really retard the unraveling of a technology. If it wasn't Ford it would've been someone else. I don't think it's possible to limit human curiosity, if not culture A, then culture B will ask the questions.
We hand off these novelties to future generations without any real bearing, all the organizations, traditions, adaptations, and more or less say "You figure it out." And the craziest thing is just the fucking rapidity of it all. Think of life in the 1920's. People have lived that long, 100 years. Imagine the cognitive whiplash watching highways and motor vehicles emerging, radio, television, the nuclear bomb, commercial airliners and transcontinental travel being trivialized, mass warfare, helicopters, wireless communication, calculators, computers, internet and the list goes on - every alteration of the nuanced fiber weave of the social fabric that all those techniques have shorn, altered or displaced.
We have no real reference point in the here and now that can comprehensively assist us in a meaningful convergence, we've sort of been shot into a dark vacuum entirely unconscious of the consequences with the pretense that it's what we desire. But I think we're quickly coming to find, at least those conscious of the implications, is that what we desire isn't necessarily good for us.
But the thing is, I don't think it's probable that we could really retard the unraveling of a technology. If it wasn't Ford it would've been someone else. I don't think it's possible to limit human curiosity, if not culture A, then culture B will ask the questions.
>it's way easier to find exactly what you want in the online catalogue of literally everything than it is to move around in the physical world
Perhaps if cities and communities were pleasant places to walk and bicycle this could change. In that case, the traveling is a positive addition and makes the trip enjoyable rather than a negative cost.
Perhaps if cities and communities were pleasant places to walk and bicycle this could change. In that case, the traveling is a positive addition and makes the trip enjoyable rather than a negative cost.
>The other half is we have kind of deprecated public spaces as an idea
We used to use the coffee house/bar in my town as the public house, where news was spread and discussions took place. The demise of such places has been very unfortunate and our interaction is now much poorer in both quantity and quality. Facebook/Twitter/Reddit are poor replacements, although I do like my town's subreddit.
I really don't know how we are going to reestablish public places again but I hope it happens. I would love to see something like the cafeterias in Mexico City where people go to have coffee, eat, talk, play games, and catch up with each other.
We used to use the coffee house/bar in my town as the public house, where news was spread and discussions took place. The demise of such places has been very unfortunate and our interaction is now much poorer in both quantity and quality. Facebook/Twitter/Reddit are poor replacements, although I do like my town's subreddit.
I really don't know how we are going to reestablish public places again but I hope it happens. I would love to see something like the cafeterias in Mexico City where people go to have coffee, eat, talk, play games, and catch up with each other.
> how would I ever remember anything? With paper?
memory is a skill. Paper is useful.
If I want to remember something I write it down, or I train the memory. The phone is so ephemeral, just a vague cloud without landmarks or permanence-- how would I find the information again after I put it in my phone?
Your system (probably) works well for you, and I'm happy you have something which serves your needs.
memory is a skill. Paper is useful.
If I want to remember something I write it down, or I train the memory. The phone is so ephemeral, just a vague cloud without landmarks or permanence-- how would I find the information again after I put it in my phone?
Your system (probably) works well for you, and I'm happy you have something which serves your needs.
Memory has a limit. I'm about 90% sure I have dyspraxia which is an ADD/Dyslexia/etc type condition, and have essentially never been able to learn.... anything to a 100% reliable level.
At the moment I'm using a custom app called Drayer Journal which is designed to solve the permanence and search issue with P2P sync, Heirachal organization, and exporting subtrees as shareable documents. Unfortunately it's a KivyMD prototype and I'm not sure I want to rewrite it in something less buggy.
It does seem that for whatever reason, most artistic fields were doing better without present day tech though.
At the moment I'm using a custom app called Drayer Journal which is designed to solve the permanence and search issue with P2P sync, Heirachal organization, and exporting subtrees as shareable documents. Unfortunately it's a KivyMD prototype and I'm not sure I want to rewrite it in something less buggy.
It does seem that for whatever reason, most artistic fields were doing better without present day tech though.
> essentially second-hand smoke
Even if we took this as a valid statement on its face, it's also
- A personal safety tool used by vulnerable people to protect themselves, from joggers to the mentally ill
- A way of checking in on one's family member suffering from illness
- Access to information that is contextually important like specific venue masking guidelines
- A means of spending time with family; as long as work knows they can reach you, you are good.
Etc.
I think it's a good idea to ask not only if we still want to be "blame the tool" people, or "blame the people" people, but also whether we want to open up this general context where we enshroud efforts to project values in a casement that looks like generalized blame of device and person both.
IMO we can do better than methods that turn into "see something, shame something" especially when so many details matter.
Even if we took this as a valid statement on its face, it's also
- A personal safety tool used by vulnerable people to protect themselves, from joggers to the mentally ill
- A way of checking in on one's family member suffering from illness
- Access to information that is contextually important like specific venue masking guidelines
- A means of spending time with family; as long as work knows they can reach you, you are good.
Etc.
I think it's a good idea to ask not only if we still want to be "blame the tool" people, or "blame the people" people, but also whether we want to open up this general context where we enshroud efforts to project values in a casement that looks like generalized blame of device and person both.
IMO we can do better than methods that turn into "see something, shame something" especially when so many details matter.
I'm not sure I agree that it's second-hand smoke to the public, but it's definitely first-hand smoke to the user.
I mean, yea it's great you can use the smartphone to do those noble things you listed, but that's not what 99% of the people standing in line, head crooked down, eyes glazed, thumb flying back and forth are doing. They're scrolling insta or snap, or tiktok, chasing that continuous dopamine drip. I remember pre-pandemic walking past a huge line outside of a movie theater, and every single person was scrolling content, eerily silent, not even talking to the people they were with. These people were not checking in on local safety information.
I'm not going to shame them. If that's how you want to live your life, it doesn't affect me. I don't care if the guy in front of me in line is high on drugs or high on instagram as long as 1. I don't smell it and 2. he moves forward along with everyone when the line moves.
I mean, yea it's great you can use the smartphone to do those noble things you listed, but that's not what 99% of the people standing in line, head crooked down, eyes glazed, thumb flying back and forth are doing. They're scrolling insta or snap, or tiktok, chasing that continuous dopamine drip. I remember pre-pandemic walking past a huge line outside of a movie theater, and every single person was scrolling content, eerily silent, not even talking to the people they were with. These people were not checking in on local safety information.
I'm not going to shame them. If that's how you want to live your life, it doesn't affect me. I don't care if the guy in front of me in line is high on drugs or high on instagram as long as 1. I don't smell it and 2. he moves forward along with everyone when the line moves.
Sounds pretty serious. Why not take a moment and ask them what they are doing and why their phones help them out, rather than projecting your worst expectations onto them en masse? It'd be much easier to help them out that way, if you are really interested in assisting via your personal values.
Otherwise it appears indistinguishable from shaming them inwardly, which could be even worse than doing it loudly, in person, and giving them a chance to defend themselves.
Otherwise it appears indistinguishable from shaming them inwardly, which could be even worse than doing it loudly, in person, and giving them a chance to defend themselves.
> essentially second hand smoke
This is a weird argument to me, since second hand smoke causes cancer. I agree that we're probably more distracted than is good for us, and there are contexts where that's a public health risk (specifically when driving), but until we see evidence that public phone use causes bystanders to get cancer, equating the two seems hyperbolic.
This is a weird argument to me, since second hand smoke causes cancer. I agree that we're probably more distracted than is good for us, and there are contexts where that's a public health risk (specifically when driving), but until we see evidence that public phone use causes bystanders to get cancer, equating the two seems hyperbolic.
I get your sentiment, but treating it like second hand smoke seems a bit silly. There's no health risk if a stranger on the train wants to be on their phone instead of talking to me.
Before covid, I went to a few speed dating events with a "no phone" policy. And no one had any trouble with that. We also already have "no phone" on occasion, like on quiet cars on trains.
So do we need cell phone free spaces enforced by law instead of social politeness? What spaces should be cell phone free.
Before covid, I went to a few speed dating events with a "no phone" policy. And no one had any trouble with that. We also already have "no phone" on occasion, like on quiet cars on trains.
So do we need cell phone free spaces enforced by law instead of social politeness? What spaces should be cell phone free.
As a parent of a three year old, one of the worst things to me is seeing other parents pushing a pram with the baby facing the parent, but the parent facing their smartphone; their mind somewhere else. I know I'm an outsider on this topic; I don't have a smartphone¹, but I just can't fathom how you can let that thing get between you and your child in that crucial bonding phase babies go through. How is this not an addiction?
I fully agree with your smoking analogy. I wonder how long it will be before the majority sees it that way too.
1: Technically speaking I do, but its a smartphone with Ubuntu on it (Meizu sold them years ago). As it is now long out of updates and as society is pushing hard to have certain apps available (banking, authentication, messaging), I will probably have to get an Android soon. I have no intention of changing my behaviour with these devices though.
I fully agree with your smoking analogy. I wonder how long it will be before the majority sees it that way too.
1: Technically speaking I do, but its a smartphone with Ubuntu on it (Meizu sold them years ago). As it is now long out of updates and as society is pushing hard to have certain apps available (banking, authentication, messaging), I will probably have to get an Android soon. I have no intention of changing my behaviour with these devices though.
Off-topic anecdote: I made one of those smartphone magnetic stands/hand supports with a pacifier just to annoy younger colleagues that were glued to their phones.
I got a pacifier with a solid base, clipped off any small pertrusions, sand papered it flat, drilled a small pit and glued a magnet in. Smoothed out the edges, applied a thin layer of epoxy as lacquer and support.
The best part is that I used a strong magnet so that I could hold the phone in my mouth by the pacifier whenever I needed both hands.
Anyway, fashion changed and suddenly my pockets became a little bit too tight, so I stopped using it.
I got a pacifier with a solid base, clipped off any small pertrusions, sand papered it flat, drilled a small pit and glued a magnet in. Smoothed out the edges, applied a thin layer of epoxy as lacquer and support.
The best part is that I used a strong magnet so that I could hold the phone in my mouth by the pacifier whenever I needed both hands.
Anyway, fashion changed and suddenly my pockets became a little bit too tight, so I stopped using it.
> Are smartphones serving as adult pacifiers?
Absolutely yes!
I wrote plenty about it in Digital Vegan but there's only time and space to touch the surface of the psychology and research in a short accessible book.
https://digitalvegan.net
I'm working on a new study with attachment theory experts looking at the ways we form emotional bonds with digital devices and how they become transitional or proxy objects.
Absolutely yes!
I wrote plenty about it in Digital Vegan but there's only time and space to touch the surface of the psychology and research in a short accessible book.
https://digitalvegan.net
I'm working on a new study with attachment theory experts looking at the ways we form emotional bonds with digital devices and how they become transitional or proxy objects.
“Digital Vegan contains 50 short chapters suitable for daily reading…”
Hey, just about right for this year’s Lent, in which I intend to closely examine my relationship with technology, because I can’t tell where “mommy brain” stops and where a deeper problem with attention and concentration driven by how I’m using the internet begins. I’m kicking it off with Carr’s “The Shallows,” but your book might be a good way to ensure I get through something every day.
Hey, just about right for this year’s Lent, in which I intend to closely examine my relationship with technology, because I can’t tell where “mommy brain” stops and where a deeper problem with attention and concentration driven by how I’m using the internet begins. I’m kicking it off with Carr’s “The Shallows,” but your book might be a good way to ensure I get through something every day.
FWIW Mandie, here's my list of modern pop tech critique, all topics
that DV touches at least tangentially. Far more than 40 days and
nights worth of reading
Shoshana Zuboff Big Other (surveillance capitalism)
Virginia Eubanks Automating Inequality
Sophie Brickman Baby Unplugged
Cory Doctorow Radicalized
Mike Monteiro Ruined by Design
Nick Srnicek Platform Capitalism
Paul Kingsnorth Life versus the machine
Heather Burns Understanding Privacy
Roger McNamee Zucked: Waking Up to the Facebook Catastrophe
Siva Vaidhyanathan Antisocial Media: How Facebook Disconnects Us
Catherine Price How to Break Up With Your Phone
Thomas Kersting Disconnected: Protect Your Kids Against Device Dependency
Nicholas Kardaras Glow Kids
Zeynep Tufekci Twitter and Tear Gas
Lelia Green Technoculture
Douglas Rushkoff Team Human
Jaron Lanier Ten Arguments For Deleting Your Social Media
Carissa Véliz Privacy is Power: Why You Should Take Back Control
Xiaowei Wang Blockchain Chicken Farm
Jenny Oddell How to Do Nothing: Resisting the Attention Economy
Wendy Liu Abolish SIlicon Valley
Jonathan Taplin Move Fast and Break Things
Andrew L. Shapiro The Control Revolution
Lawrence Lessig Code and Other Laws of Cyberspace
David Shenk Data Smog
Douglas Rushkoff Cyberia
Paulina Borsook Cyberselfish.
Shoshana Zuboff Big Other (surveillance capitalism)
Virginia Eubanks Automating Inequality
Sophie Brickman Baby Unplugged
Cory Doctorow Radicalized
Mike Monteiro Ruined by Design
Nick Srnicek Platform Capitalism
Paul Kingsnorth Life versus the machine
Heather Burns Understanding Privacy
Roger McNamee Zucked: Waking Up to the Facebook Catastrophe
Siva Vaidhyanathan Antisocial Media: How Facebook Disconnects Us
Catherine Price How to Break Up With Your Phone
Thomas Kersting Disconnected: Protect Your Kids Against Device Dependency
Nicholas Kardaras Glow Kids
Zeynep Tufekci Twitter and Tear Gas
Lelia Green Technoculture
Douglas Rushkoff Team Human
Jaron Lanier Ten Arguments For Deleting Your Social Media
Carissa Véliz Privacy is Power: Why You Should Take Back Control
Xiaowei Wang Blockchain Chicken Farm
Jenny Oddell How to Do Nothing: Resisting the Attention Economy
Wendy Liu Abolish SIlicon Valley
Jonathan Taplin Move Fast and Break Things
Andrew L. Shapiro The Control Revolution
Lawrence Lessig Code and Other Laws of Cyberspace
David Shenk Data Smog
Douglas Rushkoff Cyberia
Paulina Borsook Cyberselfish.
Thanks - ones dealing with children and tech are especially interesting to me, as I've got a toddler who I've so far been able to (mostly) keep away from the glowing screens, but who has already started grabbing my tablet and smacking the keyboard when I'm working from home and he's not at daycare.
I've seen the effects of too much device access at too young an age on younger relatives, and I really, really don't want that for my kid.
I've seen the effects of too much device access at too young an age on younger relatives, and I really, really don't want that for my kid.
Same situation, 5 yo daughter. I'm very split on this. So, after the
keyboard bashing I gave her a disused keyboard to play at while I
work. Soon she wanted to join me and type so we actually turned it to
a positive. She can type her name and lots of other words aged 5.
Those must be good motor skills, and I am not too worried because
there's' lots of bike riding, jui-jitsu and climbing in our lives too.
Then I created a special "OS" (in bash/python) just for her - obviously no network but she can start her favourite music my typing "music" and stuff like that.
I think it's the small screens, swiping and infantile apps that bother me. I have no smartphone or tablet, so she doesn't see behaviour to copy. Some of her friends have phones (I am furious at those parents) but we laugh at how they "get stuck on them" and that "phones are for babies". She tells her friend she's a "real hacker" - which I am sure will lead to some fun situations at school at some point.
My theory is that it's about how much of an interest you take.
I forgot to mention Sherry Turkle too. She has some good ideas on technology, attachment and kids.
Then I created a special "OS" (in bash/python) just for her - obviously no network but she can start her favourite music my typing "music" and stuff like that.
I think it's the small screens, swiping and infantile apps that bother me. I have no smartphone or tablet, so she doesn't see behaviour to copy. Some of her friends have phones (I am furious at those parents) but we laugh at how they "get stuck on them" and that "phones are for babies". She tells her friend she's a "real hacker" - which I am sure will lead to some fun situations at school at some point.
My theory is that it's about how much of an interest you take.
I forgot to mention Sherry Turkle too. She has some good ideas on technology, attachment and kids.
I know a thing well: smartphones do serve very well for deep and spread surveillance. They are almost substantially mandatory (many banks in many country mandate their own app for web auth, for instance) and they are macro-spy instead of micro ones, that instead of being payed bye the one who spy are payed by the one that get spied who also ensure proper power and connectivity.
Other side effects are far, far less relevant...
Other side effects are far, far less relevant...
It amazes me that the form factor of a phone has stayed with us for so long. I genuinely thought there would be some brain-computer interface by now that is invisible and we could interact with Google et al when we needed to quickly summon information about a topic / situation.
Nueralink and their ilk haven't killed enough animals yet. That's why you don't have these devices attached to your head.
Give it a decade or so
Give it a decade or so
It's not the smart phones, it's the social media app's on them. I don't remember anyone staring into their nokia 3110 every 5 minutes (except for a quick game of snake in the waiting line perhaps :) )
If you're at a rave, pacifiers are serving as adult pacifiers.
archive link https://archive.is/QuZGr
Fair point. I might need an actual pacifier that says, "Just look back down to your cell phone" on the front.
is the republican party serving as pacifiers for political action?
As they say on Twitter: it's bad on purpose to make you click.