Apple’s Universal Control(500ish.com)
500ish.com
Apple’s Universal Control
https://500ish.com/it-really-just-works-d359cfcdffe6?gi=5e5236274b4e
272 comments
This is exactly what Apple have done again and again and yet people are still surprised when it happens.
Touch screens, FaceTime, AirDrop, Handoff, Sidecar. These are generally polished and reliable iterations of existing ideas that don’t require a bunch of other apps and configuration. They are usually marketed and smartly named, unlike Windows where they can’t seem to name anything or features are locked behind different tiers of the OS.
Even the PC Master Race brigade who love to shout that they could build a better machine for less than whatever desktop Apple releases miss the point. Macs are appliances. They work reliably and do so for a long time and you know what you’re getting in terms of functionality.
Touch screens, FaceTime, AirDrop, Handoff, Sidecar. These are generally polished and reliable iterations of existing ideas that don’t require a bunch of other apps and configuration. They are usually marketed and smartly named, unlike Windows where they can’t seem to name anything or features are locked behind different tiers of the OS.
Even the PC Master Race brigade who love to shout that they could build a better machine for less than whatever desktop Apple releases miss the point. Macs are appliances. They work reliably and do so for a long time and you know what you’re getting in terms of functionality.
I’ve never been an real Apple user, however I got a MacBook Pro from my employer. Recently my android broke, and a friend gave me an 2020 iPhone SE as temporary replacement while I look for a replacement.
The thing that really blew my mind was the shared clipboard, I’ve always been sending myself messages through Signal or Discord to share my clipboard. Now it’s just automatic. The only thing I would have liked was a better way to discover this, I only did by accident.
I’ve used KDE connect in the past, and this feels like the polished version of it.
edit: Mac Pro -> MacBook Pro
The thing that really blew my mind was the shared clipboard, I’ve always been sending myself messages through Signal or Discord to share my clipboard. Now it’s just automatic. The only thing I would have liked was a better way to discover this, I only did by accident.
I’ve used KDE connect in the past, and this feels like the polished version of it.
edit: Mac Pro -> MacBook Pro
My recent/related iOS hack is screenshotting difficult-to-select text in sites and apps. Live Text immediately performs OCR on the screenshot and the text can then be copied/pasted.
Shared clipboard in an age of 2FA is amazing.
For the windows and Android users (of which I am one), the first party "your phone" app in windows 10/11 gives you this along with a lot of other amazing features (running your phone apps on desktop, access to photos and sms, notifications, calling and answering through your computer).
For the windows and Android users (of which I am one), the first party "your phone" app in windows 10/11 gives you this along with a lot of other amazing features (running your phone apps on desktop, access to photos and sms, notifications, calling and answering through your computer).
> The thing that really blew my mind was the shared clipboard
I wasn't aware this was a thing, and my mind just got blown. Thanks.
I wasn't aware this was a thing, and my mind just got blown. Thanks.
It’s the kind of thing they’ll talk up and demo at their keynotes and maybe on their webpage when the latest OS drops, so unless you’re actively paying attention to them all of this goes unseen. Sometimes the annoying tips app may pop up and tell you too.
Yeah, I'm pretty new to the ecosystem and I frequently have a nagging feeling that I should do a deep dive into documentation and guides just to catch up. Especially when it comes to wrangling Finder.
While you are at it take a look at all the trackpad gestures. They are quite useful. I wasn’t aware of two of them for a long time. Four finger close gesture to show all the apps. Two finger swipe from the right edge to open up notifications tray.
Yeah, the Trackpad section in Settings is absolutely fantastic at teaching these options.
Thanks for reminding me about it. My problem has been kinda the opposite: I trigger the notification center by accident too often. So this was enough for me to finally rebind it to a hot corner.
Thanks for reminding me about it. My problem has been kinda the opposite: I trigger the notification center by accident too often. So this was enough for me to finally rebind it to a hot corner.
Ha I also discovered this by accident, mind blown. Do you know about the long press space bar that turns it in a sorta ‘trackpad’ to move the cursor around in text (ios)?
Shared clipboard has been huge for me, especially when prepping things like DMing or D&D haha
Consider my mind blown as well. Holy shit this works well.
You can also scan a document from your iPhone and insert the image anywhere from the context (right click) menu. All it’s really doing is removing a few steps from the need to unlock your phone, open the notes app, select the scan document option and share/airdrop the result. It’s simple and effective.
I’ve seen so many students upload images for online exams via things like cam scanner unaware that they don’t need third party solutions. They complain about the time needed to get the images off their phones and onto their laptops for exams because of these supposedly hidden features.
(On Windows you can browse your android’s phone’s photos via the photos app via USB)
Similarly they go to extremes with various oddball apps to make PDFs with cam scanner images in all sorts of orientations with nasty watermarks because they’re unaware of the power of Preview.
I’ve seen so many students upload images for online exams via things like cam scanner unaware that they don’t need third party solutions. They complain about the time needed to get the images off their phones and onto their laptops for exams because of these supposedly hidden features.
(On Windows you can browse your android’s phone’s photos via the photos app via USB)
Similarly they go to extremes with various oddball apps to make PDFs with cam scanner images in all sorts of orientations with nasty watermarks because they’re unaware of the power of Preview.
Previews signature feature has made life so much easier. The ability to quickly sign W9’s/contracts as a freelancer is a god send
Highly underrated, and highly unknown feature. If someone emailed you a PDF, you can literally sign it and reply to the email all within Mail. Using you saved signature. Quite heavenly.
Also most people don’t know that when you Screenshot a webpage, there’s actually a tab at the top to capture the entire webpage (even if it’s way taller than your screen) as a pdf. Essentially “print to pdf”.
Also most people don’t know that when you Screenshot a webpage, there’s actually a tab at the top to capture the entire webpage (even if it’s way taller than your screen) as a pdf. Essentially “print to pdf”.
Continuity has been a wonderful feature that I use only from time to time, but when I use it it's been absolutely glorious in removing mental friction for menial tasks. Copying TOTP codes is one thing that just makes 2FA that much less of an annoyance.
It's infectious. So much so that I'm constantly annoyed that Music supports neither Continuity nor some form of remote control. It feels like the feature was released and then they suddenly stopped adding more apps to support it.
It's infectious. So much so that I'm constantly annoyed that Music supports neither Continuity nor some form of remote control. It feels like the feature was released and then they suddenly stopped adding more apps to support it.
Also would be nice if it worked for Siri… I’m always hey Siri-ing my watch for timers and my phone is like “there is no timer set”
With a HomePod you can transfer music from a phone to the speaker by holding it near it. It’s not AirPlay it just switches over. A similar feature for MacOS would be nice.
You can also use an Apple Watch as a remote for music playing on any device in your home. Apple want your money.
You can also use an Apple Watch as a remote for music playing on any device in your home. Apple want your money.
There is a Remote app for Music (and TV) on both iOS and watchOS, though it’s a separate download on iOS.
How do you se for 2FA?
If you’re on your Mac or iOS device and you get a sms with a 2FA code the OS pops the code up for you for autocomplete. You can have iMessage send and receive sms from macOS.
>Even the PC Master Race brigade who love to shout that they could build a better machine for less than whatever desktop Apple releases miss the point.
Apple locks their ecosystem so nobody else can make a smooth seamless experience. They ensure that only they can deliver such an integrated experience. I respect the effort of their engineers, but there are countless smart UX people and engineers in the world.
Apple locks their ecosystem so nobody else can make a smooth seamless experience. They ensure that only they can deliver such an integrated experience. I respect the effort of their engineers, but there are countless smart UX people and engineers in the world.
>Apple locks their ecosystem so nobody else can make a smooth seamless experience
KDE Connect and GS Connect do virtually the same things between Linux and Android, and sometimes even more than what Apple can do[1], and is proof that you don't need vendor lock-in and a 3 trillion $ valuation to achieve the same features, just a group of dedicated enthusiasts with a vision and free time on their hands. That's the beauty of FOSS.
Unfortunately, the Apple apologetics brigade will shout loudly that vendor lock in is the key to Apple delivering these features and that openness is somehow bad as it will only hurt the ecosystem and get you hacked.
Not hating on Apple or Apple users, just stating my POV.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8Uwh0hAhW8
KDE Connect and GS Connect do virtually the same things between Linux and Android, and sometimes even more than what Apple can do[1], and is proof that you don't need vendor lock-in and a 3 trillion $ valuation to achieve the same features, just a group of dedicated enthusiasts with a vision and free time on their hands. That's the beauty of FOSS.
Unfortunately, the Apple apologetics brigade will shout loudly that vendor lock in is the key to Apple delivering these features and that openness is somehow bad as it will only hurt the ecosystem and get you hacked.
Not hating on Apple or Apple users, just stating my POV.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8Uwh0hAhW8
I don't see how it's a dichotomy.
It's entirely possible that a closed ecosystem enables a large number of features with a certain set of tradeoffs, and an open ecosystem enables a large number of features with a different set of tradeoffs, and there is overlap between the feature sets.
Does that mean that there is no need for an open ecosystem, when you can get what you need from a closed ecosystem? No, because while all the features you care about may be in both, the tradeoffs you have to make to use the closed ecosystem might not be the tradeoffs you want to make.
And the converse is equally plausible: That you can get all the features you care about in both, but it does not mean that there is no need for a closed ecosystem, because while all the features someone cares about may be available in both, the tradeoffs they want to make may align more closely with the closed ecosystem's tradeoffs than with teh open ecosystem's tradeoffs.
I think it is true that given some set of features, we can nearly always find a set of open source products/packages to deliver the required functionality, and for a very pedantic literal sense of "need, " OSS does everything people need.
But hardware and software products are more than just a set of features. They're the other tradeoffs that form a messy collection of affordances and pain points, and different people have different needs from the entire product's perspective.
It's entirely possible that a closed ecosystem enables a large number of features with a certain set of tradeoffs, and an open ecosystem enables a large number of features with a different set of tradeoffs, and there is overlap between the feature sets.
Does that mean that there is no need for an open ecosystem, when you can get what you need from a closed ecosystem? No, because while all the features you care about may be in both, the tradeoffs you have to make to use the closed ecosystem might not be the tradeoffs you want to make.
And the converse is equally plausible: That you can get all the features you care about in both, but it does not mean that there is no need for a closed ecosystem, because while all the features someone cares about may be available in both, the tradeoffs they want to make may align more closely with the closed ecosystem's tradeoffs than with teh open ecosystem's tradeoffs.
I think it is true that given some set of features, we can nearly always find a set of open source products/packages to deliver the required functionality, and for a very pedantic literal sense of "need, " OSS does everything people need.
But hardware and software products are more than just a set of features. They're the other tradeoffs that form a messy collection of affordances and pain points, and different people have different needs from the entire product's perspective.
KDE connect does what the Remote Hippo app did a decade ago, from what I’m seeing of it’s documentation - let’s you use your phone as a trackpad and maybe share files and such. Yes, it’s more advanced, but it’s not a rethinking of things.
This feature is indeed innovative yet iterative - it’s like a zero-configuration Synergy or Logitech Flow where you can use the same mouse on multiple devices - but it requires basically no configuration at all to do so. And the impressive part is how it built on top of previous work to add shared clipboard between devices and other “handoff” features, plus has a similarity to features that shipped before handoff such as airdrop.
To underscore how impressive it is, Microsoft still has yet to ship a suite of such features and they should have very similar resources available. Apple might be all marketing and sometimes buggy, confusing or unexpected, but there is an undeniable sense of progression when you look at the 5-10 year improvements.
The caution I would have is that it works so well I was confused when my mouse cursor disappeared and showed up on another screen. And it can’t automatically figure out the positioning of displays or computers, which is annoying now that Apple is experimenting with chips that can precisely position devices relative to each other. [Full disclosure, I have a couple shares in Apple.]
This feature is indeed innovative yet iterative - it’s like a zero-configuration Synergy or Logitech Flow where you can use the same mouse on multiple devices - but it requires basically no configuration at all to do so. And the impressive part is how it built on top of previous work to add shared clipboard between devices and other “handoff” features, plus has a similarity to features that shipped before handoff such as airdrop.
To underscore how impressive it is, Microsoft still has yet to ship a suite of such features and they should have very similar resources available. Apple might be all marketing and sometimes buggy, confusing or unexpected, but there is an undeniable sense of progression when you look at the 5-10 year improvements.
The caution I would have is that it works so well I was confused when my mouse cursor disappeared and showed up on another screen. And it can’t automatically figure out the positioning of displays or computers, which is annoying now that Apple is experimenting with chips that can precisely position devices relative to each other. [Full disclosure, I have a couple shares in Apple.]
>KDE connect does what the Remote Hippo app did a decade ago, from what I’m seeing of it’s documentation - let’s you use your phone as a trackpad and maybe share files and such. Yes, it’s more advanced, but it’s not a rethinking of things.
It does way more than that:
It will pause your PC music/movie when you get a call.
It lets you sync clipboards.
Syncs notifications, SMS, etc and can even reply to SMS from your PC.
Remote view of photos and files on your phone from the PC.
Take phone call on your PC.
And I might be missing a couple.
But, yes, the fact that Microsoft hasn't delivered such features on Windows is baffling. They did try with the Your Phone app, but that's worse than KDE connect.
It does way more than that:
It will pause your PC music/movie when you get a call.
It lets you sync clipboards.
Syncs notifications, SMS, etc and can even reply to SMS from your PC.
Remote view of photos and files on your phone from the PC.
Take phone call on your PC.
And I might be missing a couple.
But, yes, the fact that Microsoft hasn't delivered such features on Windows is baffling. They did try with the Your Phone app, but that's worse than KDE connect.
SMS sync and taking calls from the computer have been a feature in the apple ecosystem since at least 2017.
I agree with the other commenters - it's nice, but it's not nearly the same. The beauty of it is really that 'it just works' - you don't need to know about it, you don't need to open a specific app, find something by name and press 'connect', there are no options. The behaviour just slots in perfectly between the existing model of icloud / sharing / handoff. This kind of long-term design vision is difficult to achieve and very rare in FOSS, maybe with the exception of Elementary.
I agree with the other commenters - it's nice, but it's not nearly the same. The beauty of it is really that 'it just works' - you don't need to know about it, you don't need to open a specific app, find something by name and press 'connect', there are no options. The behaviour just slots in perfectly between the existing model of icloud / sharing / handoff. This kind of long-term design vision is difficult to achieve and very rare in FOSS, maybe with the exception of Elementary.
Of course but considering the cost of the Apple ecosystem HW and subscription fees, it's expected to be better than stuff anyone can get for free, no?
From your own earlier comment:
> and is proof that you don't need vendor lock-in and a 3 trillion $ valuation to achieve the same features
> the Apple apologetics brigade will shout loudly that vendor lock in is the key to Apple delivering these features and that openness is somehow bad
Can't have it both ways.
> and is proof that you don't need vendor lock-in and a 3 trillion $ valuation to achieve the same features
> the Apple apologetics brigade will shout loudly that vendor lock in is the key to Apple delivering these features and that openness is somehow bad
Can't have it both ways.
There is no Android and PC that I can buy where KDE connect is just installed and works. That's the difference.
I buy a new iPad and MacBook, log in with my iCloud account, and boom, it works.
I buy a new iPad and MacBook, log in with my iCloud account, and boom, it works.
>There is no Android and PC that I can buy where KDE connect is just installed and works. That's the difference.
Sure, but now we're moving the goal posts and arguing about semantics. The original comment I replied to, said Apple features are only achievable due to their ecosystem and I disproved him, that's it. The fact that the Linux community doesn't have billions of $ for marketing and commercialization of their products is a separate issue that's been the thorn of Linux adoption on the desktop since forever.
>I buy a new iPad and MacBook, log in with my iCloud account, and boom, it works.
Unfortunately, some people in the world that don't earn western wages can't afford to own several Apple products worth multiple times their salaries to enjoy the ecosystem, so it's great that FOSS alternatives exist that do the same things so those less fortunate can enjoy them at a fraction of the cost.
Sure, but now we're moving the goal posts and arguing about semantics. The original comment I replied to, said Apple features are only achievable due to their ecosystem and I disproved him, that's it. The fact that the Linux community doesn't have billions of $ for marketing and commercialization of their products is a separate issue that's been the thorn of Linux adoption on the desktop since forever.
>I buy a new iPad and MacBook, log in with my iCloud account, and boom, it works.
Unfortunately, some people in the world that don't earn western wages can't afford to own several Apple products worth multiple times their salaries to enjoy the ecosystem, so it's great that FOSS alternatives exist that do the same things so those less fortunate can enjoy them at a fraction of the cost.
> The original comment I replied to, said Apple features are only achievable due to their ecosystem
No, they said those features are only achievable on Apple systems by Apple because of they close everyone else out of their ecosystem.
> so it's great that FOSS alternatives exist that do the same things so those less fortunate can enjoy them at a fraction of the cost.
I agree 1000%, but that's not what we were talking about.
No, they said those features are only achievable on Apple systems by Apple because of they close everyone else out of their ecosystem.
> so it's great that FOSS alternatives exist that do the same things so those less fortunate can enjoy them at a fraction of the cost.
I agree 1000%, but that's not what we were talking about.
Your comment bothered me, and I wanted to retort, but couldn't determine a way to do so without being a dickhead.
I have the western income and I have multiple Apple products as a result, and I should really appreciate that more than I do.
I have the western income and I have multiple Apple products as a result, and I should really appreciate that more than I do.
>Your comment bothered me, and I wanted to retort, but couldn't determine a way to do so without being a dickhead.
Why did my comment bother you? I did not insult anyone.
Why did my comment bother you? I did not insult anyone.
No, it was me feeling guilty. Wasn’t anything you did.
When I was a young and broke student I had more time to tinker with old computers and free (and pirated) software and get things fun things working. I also hated on Apple.
Now that I have a comfortable middle class western lifestyle I can appreciate the appliance nature of Apple’s products. I use them for work because they are reliable and do indeed just work.
In the lab I can still tinker with computers but I try to leave that to my students so they can have the same wonderful experience I had.
I haven’t build a PC in a few years and hope to build something new in a couple of years. It’s not a monoculture just because I prefer Macs for getting work done and I’m not going to apologise for my situation. Apple know their users and I’m happy that they can meet most of my needs.
Now that I have a comfortable middle class western lifestyle I can appreciate the appliance nature of Apple’s products. I use them for work because they are reliable and do indeed just work.
In the lab I can still tinker with computers but I try to leave that to my students so they can have the same wonderful experience I had.
I haven’t build a PC in a few years and hope to build something new in a couple of years. It’s not a monoculture just because I prefer Macs for getting work done and I’m not going to apologise for my situation. Apple know their users and I’m happy that they can meet most of my needs.
I'm in a similar situation...Whats worse is when you compare the Best of Apple with the best of the PC side of things. My work Dell precision is a science workstation desktop replacement...2 hours of battery life I can understand, fuel efficiency wasn't anywhere in the top ten list of priorities.
But it has ZERO sleep modes. There are 4 exposed to the OS in most cases, non are supported by the BIOS...the only thing I can reasonably do is 'hibernate with lid close.'
The mac is half the price, half the weight, twice the CPU...I'm a little disappointed in Dell and sad that my office requires it use.
But in the context of this thread, I really need a dose of humility and a recognition of what I have due to my geography.
But it has ZERO sleep modes. There are 4 exposed to the OS in most cases, non are supported by the BIOS...the only thing I can reasonably do is 'hibernate with lid close.'
The mac is half the price, half the weight, twice the CPU...I'm a little disappointed in Dell and sad that my office requires it use.
But in the context of this thread, I really need a dose of humility and a recognition of what I have due to my geography.
I think you misunderstood - What I meant was nobody except Apple can do it for the APPLE ecosystem.
No one but apple has access to the apple ecosystem like apple.
In a windows/linux/notApple ecosystem, you've got to give permission to an application to fully control other devices...that's...not a good idea, from a security standpoint. It's how Bonzi Buddy gets a really crappy hold of your information. But apple has spent a lot of time building a reputation where they can be trusted to do so()
=and yet...
In a windows/linux/notApple ecosystem, you've got to give permission to an application to fully control other devices...that's...not a good idea, from a security standpoint. It's how Bonzi Buddy gets a really crappy hold of your information. But apple has spent a lot of time building a reputation where they can be trusted to do so()
=and yet...
>n a windows/linux/notApple ecosystem, you've got to give permission to an application to fully control other devices...that's...not a good idea, from a security standpoint.
Apple should provide safe defaults - but ultimately the user should be making that decision. Its entirely possible to do this safely, Apple simply chooses not to and pretends its something to do with security.
> But apple has spent a lot of time building a reputation where they can be trusted to do so()
Regardless of whatever "reputation" they've built, Apple products are riddled with bugs and security problems. As a technical user, I never think "security" when I think Apple. I guess for most people security is something that is easily marketed.
Apple should provide safe defaults - but ultimately the user should be making that decision. Its entirely possible to do this safely, Apple simply chooses not to and pretends its something to do with security.
> But apple has spent a lot of time building a reputation where they can be trusted to do so()
Regardless of whatever "reputation" they've built, Apple products are riddled with bugs and security problems. As a technical user, I never think "security" when I think Apple. I guess for most people security is something that is easily marketed.
Feel free to deliver this smooth experience on android or microsofts mobile platforms. The reality for me is that android stuff plays LESS well together and is less smooth.
Sadly, neither of those are open platforms.
The polish isn't as shiny as it once was. Let's fix the Music app no? How about passwords? What about the complete failure of a window manager on macOS.
Feature bloat has plagued Apple developers to the point nobody knows how to wrangle all the gestures and interactions properly. Even a man as diligent as Steve, I suspect, wouldn't know what to do with the current state of things. He'd probably just burn it all down and start over with the front end, as is the natural order of things.
Feature bloat has plagued Apple developers to the point nobody knows how to wrangle all the gestures and interactions properly. Even a man as diligent as Steve, I suspect, wouldn't know what to do with the current state of things. He'd probably just burn it all down and start over with the front end, as is the natural order of things.
A massive company with dozens of apps have some that don’t meet your arbitrarily high bar? Shocker.
Music works fine. Passwords work fine. The window manager works fine.
Revolutionary? No. Needing an update? I think so.
A failure? Only in your fevered dreams.
Music works fine. Passwords work fine. The window manager works fine.
Revolutionary? No. Needing an update? I think so.
A failure? Only in your fevered dreams.
Feel the same way. There are some uninspiring apps but they can't update all apps all the time. 2 things matter: 1) they are not being decprecated or ignored. Thats for google to do. and 2) when they do finally get a non-incremental update, they usually are much better. Meaning, they batched together a bunch of things that were true problems and fixed them in a smart/clever way.
There are a few core features music is missing on top of their semi-unintuitive interface.
For starters, it’s as hard for me to plug my phone in on multiple computers without licensing alerts going nuts/blocking certain songs despite the fact the music was bought through them. That is baffling to me given how synchronized Apple ID usually is.
For starters, it’s as hard for me to plug my phone in on multiple computers without licensing alerts going nuts/blocking certain songs despite the fact the music was bought through them. That is baffling to me given how synchronized Apple ID usually is.
I wish they'd fix the home/end key. It's on their external keyboard but it's mostly useless without third party os extensiosns
What do you mean? I use fn left and fn right arrow for home and end.
I try to use the home and end keys but unlike Linux and windows they are generally broke in various apps including system apps
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MQ052LL/A/magic-keyboard-...
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MQ052LL/A/magic-keyboard-...
I know X11 WMs have had all sorts of fancy features for decades, but I've never seen any particular benefit from them personally.
The Mac desktop works extremely well when used more or less as intended for the vast majority of Mac users (ie, on a laptop): with a multi-touch trackpad, flicking rapidly between virtual desktops, and flicking up to see everything at once.
The Mac desktop works extremely well when used more or less as intended for the vast majority of Mac users (ie, on a laptop): with a multi-touch trackpad, flicking rapidly between virtual desktops, and flicking up to see everything at once.
>flicking rapidly between virtual desktops
Honestly, that's a terrible workflow for me. Due to the nature of my work, many times I need to tile 2, 3 or 4 windows on the same screen so I can view them all at once. Flicking quickly between them instead of having them all static in front of me is a UX nightmare that gives me eye strain just thinking about it.
I have no idea how people mange to multi task efficiently by flicking and not get headaches, or on desktop with a mouse and keyboard, but maybe Apple thinks most of its customers are content creators who should just be focusing on one app at a time and never need to tile several. I guess I just wasn't meant to be an Apple customer.
For my type of work, I much prefer the Windows/Linux way of having the flicking option for laptops but also great out of the box tiling built in.
Honestly, that's a terrible workflow for me. Due to the nature of my work, many times I need to tile 2, 3 or 4 windows on the same screen so I can view them all at once. Flicking quickly between them instead of having them all static in front of me is a UX nightmare that gives me eye strain just thinking about it.
I have no idea how people mange to multi task efficiently by flicking and not get headaches, or on desktop with a mouse and keyboard, but maybe Apple thinks most of its customers are content creators who should just be focusing on one app at a time and never need to tile several. I guess I just wasn't meant to be an Apple customer.
For my type of work, I much prefer the Windows/Linux way of having the flicking option for laptops but also great out of the box tiling built in.
You don’t have to flick anything. Windows align against each other and you can position them how you like. You can even configure it to always open specific apps in a particular virtual desktop should you chose.
If you want a full screen app that you flick through like an iPad you can. If you want a mess of windows on one desktop you can use App Exposé to see only the ones from a particular app. If you want a tiling manager you can install one.
If you want to turn off all the gestures you can.
It’s a mature desktop OS that has many ways of doing things.
If you want a full screen app that you flick through like an iPad you can. If you want a mess of windows on one desktop you can use App Exposé to see only the ones from a particular app. If you want a tiling manager you can install one.
If you want to turn off all the gestures you can.
It’s a mature desktop OS that has many ways of doing things.
Yeah, but I don't need any of that swiping most of the time, nor do I wish to install a tiling window manager to do the tiling automatically for me all the time, as I only need the tiling sometimes and I prefer to do the tiling myself.
I just want my OS to give me the option, out of the box, to quickly tile on demand 2 to 4 windows on the same screen in a sane layout that I can choose that's easily resizable to my current needs. That's it.
Kind of like this:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/desktop/modern...
I just want my OS to give me the option, out of the box, to quickly tile on demand 2 to 4 windows on the same screen in a sane layout that I can choose that's easily resizable to my current needs. That's it.
Kind of like this:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/desktop/modern...
Have you tried rectangle? https://rectangleapp.com/
Yeah, ever since Expose launched in 10.3 (Panther?) I haven't seen a better window manager for a laptop.
People forget that iTunes was a mess while Steve was still alive. Now it's considerably improved.
It gets worse, and it gets better.
Apple Music still won't sync all of my wife's MP3 songs to her iPhone 13 Pro, even though she pays for the subscription. Some stuff goes through. Some doesn't. It's very random.
My iPhone X syncs fine, even wirelessly, with the same library, though.
I'm just glad (OK, amazed) that Apple Music still syncs songs with my 17-year-old first-generation iPod Shuffle. I used it just yesterday. My only complaint is that the icon displayed in the Finder sidebar for the second-generation Shuffles has the wrong aspect ratio. Still the best music player on the planet.
Apple Music still won't sync all of my wife's MP3 songs to her iPhone 13 Pro, even though she pays for the subscription. Some stuff goes through. Some doesn't. It's very random.
My iPhone X syncs fine, even wirelessly, with the same library, though.
I'm just glad (OK, amazed) that Apple Music still syncs songs with my 17-year-old first-generation iPod Shuffle. I used it just yesterday. My only complaint is that the icon displayed in the Finder sidebar for the second-generation Shuffles has the wrong aspect ratio. Still the best music player on the planet.
I’m curious what era in particular you are talking about. Maybe I have rose tinted glasses but I remember iTunes being pretty great in the late 2000’s/early 2010s.
I use Rectangle for tiling and Bitwarden desktop app for passwords. Highly recommend them!
It’s kind of baffling how clunky/featureless/unintuitive apple’s Music app is, right? Most of their apps are slick and intuitive, but Music is just so…bad. Especially given how amazing iTunes used to be!
It used to be so great... :-(
They are usually marketed and smartly named
People really underestimate the contagiousness of Apple brand names.
Earlier this week I was listening to several non-technical people in the real world talking about their "AirTags." Eventually one of them took hers out, and it turned out they were talking about their Tile trackers. Nobody says "Tile," but everyone says "AirTags" now.
And in my company, everyone says "FaceTime," but nobody means FaceTime because it's a Windows-only organization. They mean Teams, or Zoom, or even BlueJeans, but they never actually mean FaceTime.
People really underestimate the contagiousness of Apple brand names.
Earlier this week I was listening to several non-technical people in the real world talking about their "AirTags." Eventually one of them took hers out, and it turned out they were talking about their Tile trackers. Nobody says "Tile," but everyone says "AirTags" now.
And in my company, everyone says "FaceTime," but nobody means FaceTime because it's a Windows-only organization. They mean Teams, or Zoom, or even BlueJeans, but they never actually mean FaceTime.
It goes all the way down to the naming of system utilities. Disk Utility has a distinct name and icon (and questionable functionality). You can easily find it in Spotlight and launch it with a few key strokes. The familiar icon appears and you’ve found what you want.
In Windows you search for Disk Management and you not only have to type the entire name but the result you get is not the program you’re looking for but some long winded description that makes you stop and have to decipher it. It adds friction and confusion.
At least since Windows 10 Start-X opens a useful list of utilities.
In Windows you search for Disk Management and you not only have to type the entire name but the result you get is not the program you’re looking for but some long winded description that makes you stop and have to decipher it. It adds friction and confusion.
At least since Windows 10 Start-X opens a useful list of utilities.
>questionable functionality
Legitimately asking this: how so? I don’t really have any issues with it and I’m formatting drives all the time off of it. Are there some other features that are janky?
Legitimately asking this: how so? I don’t really have any issues with it and I’m formatting drives all the time off of it. Are there some other features that are janky?
When Apple does this, it's really hard to undersell the "reliable" aspect of it.
The responsiveness and web experience of the first iPhone was just, a generational leap.
Same thing with Universal Control. I've used Synergy, ShareMouse and basically every clone, and I've never seen close to this same precision as Universal Control which Just Works out of the box.
I'm actually upgrading to a new Mac right now, and Universal Control is an absolute game changer for that workflow.
The responsiveness and web experience of the first iPhone was just, a generational leap.
Same thing with Universal Control. I've used Synergy, ShareMouse and basically every clone, and I've never seen close to this same precision as Universal Control which Just Works out of the box.
I'm actually upgrading to a new Mac right now, and Universal Control is an absolute game changer for that workflow.
The smug face I had while making similar claims with so much confidence and zeal got crushed when started seeing weird shit like the infamous green lines on the screen and the fucking "stage light effect".. I love how even embarrassing failures of this company have fancy names!
For me the "just works" that does it is the seamless copy and paste between my Macbook and iPhone, I never set it up and honestly I don't even looked how it works, it's just here when I need it.
Apple also locks down their ecosystem so nobody except them can actually make a "just works" product. How many smart UX people and engineers do we have on HN itself?
"But Apple has to lock it down, otherwise it would be a shitty ecosystem, just look at Windows lol" is a lame defense (IMO). There are countless ways to design open APIs, open data standards, etc while still having sane defaults for the non-pro users.
"But Apple has to lock it down, otherwise it would be a shitty ecosystem, just look at Windows lol" is a lame defense (IMO). There are countless ways to design open APIs, open data standards, etc while still having sane defaults for the non-pro users.
I enjoyed the drag and drop between windows and Samsung Galaxy device. It's certainly not as great as the highlighted apple's one, but it was really super nice!
This insight seems to be key -- thanks for sharing.
Pity that MG Siegler did not realise the opportunity to report more than what goes beyond an off-puttingly biased and superficial analysis. I recall his TechCrunch times more favourably; this article in contrast seems to not only have been written in haste, but written poorly at that.
Pity that MG Siegler did not realise the opportunity to report more than what goes beyond an off-puttingly biased and superficial analysis. I recall his TechCrunch times more favourably; this article in contrast seems to not only have been written in haste, but written poorly at that.
I've been in Apple's ecosystem (MacBook Pro + iPhone 11 + AirPod Pro) for 2.5 years. The harmony between the devices is just fantastic. Even after all these months I discover a nifty little feature that's super useful. The latest is copy/paste works across devices. Once discovered I began using it more often.
Apple epitomises the power of compounding. The level of deep integration they have built across and within devices (their own CPU, OS, and app etc.,) is impressive to say the least.
To pick another example; I just can't use any web browser other than Safari because of things like touch-ID enabled password store; privacy relay, hide my email and they keep piling on such thoughtful features once or twice a year. To an extent I'm now contemplating migrating from Fastmail (have my own domain) to Apple Mail.
Apple epitomises the power of compounding. The level of deep integration they have built across and within devices (their own CPU, OS, and app etc.,) is impressive to say the least.
To pick another example; I just can't use any web browser other than Safari because of things like touch-ID enabled password store; privacy relay, hide my email and they keep piling on such thoughtful features once or twice a year. To an extent I'm now contemplating migrating from Fastmail (have my own domain) to Apple Mail.
I use 1Password, so I get touch ID-enabled logins in any browser. Works pretty well.
I'm also a Fastmail user, but I (a long time Apple product user) don't have the impression of their services being quite as solid as some of the others, so I wouldn't switch my mail over yet. Plus, Fastmail has some other features I like (easy to set up aliases, including their new "masked email" feature, which integrates with 1Password).
All of that said, I've been all-in on Apple stuff for a number of years for exactly the reason you cite. There's a lot of good stuff that works well together. Like getting a security code via SMS and having Safari (on the iPhone) offer that as an autofill option.
I'm also a Fastmail user, but I (a long time Apple product user) don't have the impression of their services being quite as solid as some of the others, so I wouldn't switch my mail over yet. Plus, Fastmail has some other features I like (easy to set up aliases, including their new "masked email" feature, which integrates with 1Password).
All of that said, I've been all-in on Apple stuff for a number of years for exactly the reason you cite. There's a lot of good stuff that works well together. Like getting a security code via SMS and having Safari (on the iPhone) offer that as an autofill option.
> Like getting a security code via SMS and having Safari (on the iPhone) offer that as an autofill option.
BTW, this works with native apps too — just did it 30m ago with the Dave & Busters app. (My guess is that this works via the iOS keyboard.)
BTW, this works with native apps too — just did it 30m ago with the Dave & Busters app. (My guess is that this works via the iOS keyboard.)
I get this on Android.
Did I set something custom up and forget about it, or is this standard?
Did I set something custom up and forget about it, or is this standard?
It looks like this became a standard OS feature in Android 9 and iOS 12, both of which came out in late 2018.
It’s so fast that Safari always offers it for the form field before the audible alert and notification for the text itself.
Yeah I've noticed similar things, really thoughtful, not just "Apple VPN" but real thought in the process. And tons of things that you effectively can't market, that went into the integrity of the T2 security chip, if you dig really deep it's really really good.
That good, huh? Better than Fastmail?
I'm asking because I'm now prioritizing digital subscriptions. It's just such good ROI, it's a unique kind of product that goes for subscriptions. Not so much into products as services. The really good services all require subscriptions, and can justify their cost easily.
Apparently subscriptions transform businesses at an "technology of business" to say it one way, at that level. Like it looks much better on their balance sheet to have subscriptions, and for good reason. But it's deeper than that.
That good, huh? Better than Fastmail?
I'm asking because I'm now prioritizing digital subscriptions. It's just such good ROI, it's a unique kind of product that goes for subscriptions. Not so much into products as services. The really good services all require subscriptions, and can justify their cost easily.
Apparently subscriptions transform businesses at an "technology of business" to say it one way, at that level. Like it looks much better on their balance sheet to have subscriptions, and for good reason. But it's deeper than that.
> That good, huh? Better than Fastmail?
I suppose feature wise Fastmail is slightly better. Just that I need to pay about 8$/e-mail/month and it's free part of iCloud subscription. Plus, more convenient to manage from one place. But on the downside; it leads to single point of failure so I'm still weighing that decision.
I suppose feature wise Fastmail is slightly better. Just that I need to pay about 8$/e-mail/month and it's free part of iCloud subscription. Plus, more convenient to manage from one place. But on the downside; it leads to single point of failure so I'm still weighing that decision.
Yeah, it's clever to be able to control an iPad from a Mac. But it's real utility is controlling multiple Macs. I have a personal and a company laptop, and I use both all the time. This just made things much easier (and yes, I know about Synergy, but just never bothered to try it).
But it does not "just work" by any stretch. I ran into the same typical crap that I see with Handoff and Airdrop. It "just works" until it inexplicably stops working, for no apparent reason, and nothing but a reboot fixes it. Even getting my two Macs to see each other was a PITA (a 16" M1 Max, and a 14" M1 Pro). I thought at first it was because one was hardwired (but also on the local wifi), but no. Disabling ethernet made no difference. Multiple reboots, no dice. Later on, 10 minutes after deciding to give up, it just decided to start working, a fact which I only discovered because I lost control of my mouse on one machine, not realizing I had moved it to the other.
Now that they "know" one another, we'll see if it works more consistently now.
But it does not "just work" by any stretch. I ran into the same typical crap that I see with Handoff and Airdrop. It "just works" until it inexplicably stops working, for no apparent reason, and nothing but a reboot fixes it. Even getting my two Macs to see each other was a PITA (a 16" M1 Max, and a 14" M1 Pro). I thought at first it was because one was hardwired (but also on the local wifi), but no. Disabling ethernet made no difference. Multiple reboots, no dice. Later on, 10 minutes after deciding to give up, it just decided to start working, a fact which I only discovered because I lost control of my mouse on one machine, not realizing I had moved it to the other.
Now that they "know" one another, we'll see if it works more consistently now.
Every time I find handoff or shared clipboard not working it’s been because my devices are on different Wi-Fi networks.
For me that has been when SSIDs foo and foo-5 are both available (home, vacation house, work), so I’d tell my Mac (which tells my other devices) to try both.
Once I stopped doing this these features became rock solid. Note that editing your WiFi list (removing obsolete ones and ordering the search list) will speed up connecting to WiFi on all your devices.
PS: typing w, i, f, and i on my ipad resulted in the two different expansions above!
For me that has been when SSIDs foo and foo-5 are both available (home, vacation house, work), so I’d tell my Mac (which tells my other devices) to try both.
Once I stopped doing this these features became rock solid. Note that editing your WiFi list (removing obsolete ones and ordering the search list) will speed up connecting to WiFi on all your devices.
PS: typing w, i, f, and i on my ipad resulted in the two different expansions above!
That's nice, but I've had shared clipboard break numerous times, and all devices were on the same SSID. It hasn't happened recently, which to me says that the past failures were caused by bugs in Apple's implementation. But I just had Airdrop fail last night transferring files to my wife's phone. It just suddenly stops transferring, and claims the device is out of space. It had 64GB free, and 1.5TB free on iCloud. Restarted the phone, and it started working again. Fail, Apple.
Have the exact same setup, 16" M1 Max, and a 14" M1 Pro and handoff issues can get annoying. Sometimes the issue is caused by switching the initializing screen push from one computer to the other. In essence changing the master, which decides who’s peripherals will be shared. This definitely feels “beta” as they’ve labeled it. A lot of progress but beta and I tip my hat to the team working on it.
Exact same experience here.... (M1 Air (personal) and 14" pro (intel) work)..
Driving me fucking insane. I've gone back to just having two keyboards and trackpads on my desk.
Driving me fucking insane. I've gone back to just having two keyboards and trackpads on my desk.
It boggles the mind to read this because I’ve been using Synergy (and now Barrier, and soon Barrier’s new fork once they ship) to do the same between Mac and Windows for many years, so… it’s nothing really new.
It is cute (I’m typing this on my iPad controlled by my MacBook Pro), but just doesn’t seem very reliable at the moment (and does not work at all from an older MacBook Air). There’s a bucketload of polish in the experience, but I would refrain from calling it groundbreaking or liberating… Just a little better (UI-wise) and a little worse (no PC support).
It is cute (I’m typing this on my iPad controlled by my MacBook Pro), but just doesn’t seem very reliable at the moment (and does not work at all from an older MacBook Air). There’s a bucketload of polish in the experience, but I would refrain from calling it groundbreaking or liberating… Just a little better (UI-wise) and a little worse (no PC support).
I've been Synergy user years ago but then I got fed up with amount of issues that simply couldn't be resolved (third mouse button issues, wrong key mappings, special keys pressed during crossing the boundary could mess things up on the new computer). So in the end I just put two keyboard and mice for two computers on the table.
Synergy left the impression as something opposite of "it just works".
Synergy left the impression as something opposite of "it just works".
And it doesn't even support basic gestures. Useless with a trackpad.
Synergy/Barrier straight up don't forward multitouch, which really sucks because part of the reason I want to use a Mac is because of their phenomenal support for gestures baked in throughout the OS.
Actually, I think Barrier does, at least between my Mac and my PC. But it's the weekend now, so I'm not going to fire up my work machine for anything...
It does not work well for multi touch, even from Mac to Mac in my experience.
You're right. My use case is also Mac to Mac and Barrier/Synergy does not provide the UC experience. No multi gestures support - and the thing that annoys me the most - trackpad scrolling events aren't mapped one to one, you end up scrolling lines on the target, not the precision you're expecting.
To be honest I'm not sure if Barrier developers could actually mimic that without resorting to some sort of undocumented APIs and/or obscure techniques.
To be honest I'm not sure if Barrier developers could actually mimic that without resorting to some sort of undocumented APIs and/or obscure techniques.
The APIs are all there on Quartz events, it’s just that nobody seems to use them :(
In my case, my always-on workstation is a windows machine, and I also need a 3-button mouse for a decent CAD experience. So, I just give up on gestures and multitouch anyway (I prefer this consistency over having slightly different behavior across machines). Probably for similar reasons, it would be difficult to make barrier work as we wished on MacOS and still be multi-platform.
I agree. I'm a Mac user, still I've been using Synergy for years to do the very same thing with a Linux Desktop. I remember using it in like 2006.
Now, Synergy doesn't run on iPads, and Universal Control is certainly "better" than synergy (in technical terms) because the Apple Behemoth invested a lot of money into this, but I can't help but wonder.. why: I don't see the use case, there's not a single app on the iPad that I'd like to control from the Mac.
i use an ios chinese dictionary called pleco that, for some reason, the developers don’t allow to be installed on macos. i primarly use my macbook to study, and before this update, i just checked definitions using the app on my phone. now, i have my ipad directly next to my macbook on a stand, and i can easily drag the mouse across and and look up entries without needing to unlock my phone and peck out or copy/paste characters. these kind of small optimizations to workflow are really helpful.
I think Pleco's developers are more focused on improving the dictionary than porting it to computers (they have an Android version too), but it would be very nice to have a computer version that can look up words if you right click them, for example.
yeah, i can understand that. i should have mentioned that i’m using an m1 mac, and as far as i understand it, there’s no extra overhead on the developer side for enabling an ios app to be downloaded from the app store and used by someone with an m1 + macos. it’s actually something the developer has to explicitly disallow (someone should correct me if i’m mistaken).
If you were using it as a second screen to watch something or do some basic browsing for reference material, they are probably hoping this will address the desire to cast the screen contents from the Macbook. If you seamlessly are passing your mouse and keyboard inputs, you'll likely just have your iPad do the video streaming or browsing directly.
My “why” is because it allows me to use the native iPad versions of apps which only have resource hungry and sometimes more quirky web/electron versions on desktop. Currently the iPad is responsible for handling Slack and Discord, but that list may grow.
Can't you install iPad apps on Macs now? Seems like that would be an easier solution to your needs.
There are ways but last I knew, if the dev has disabled installing the iOS version on macOS (as Slack and Discord regrettably have), you need to turn off SIP to be able to decrypt the iOS app bundles, then re-sign them and re-enable SIP.
My only M1 mac is a company machine and I don’t like the idea of disabling SIP on it, even temporarily.
My only M1 mac is a company machine and I don’t like the idea of disabling SIP on it, even temporarily.
>there's not a single app on the iPad that I'd like to control from the Mac.
Any software that has a native iOS version, but only has an Electron version on the Mac comes instantly to mind.
The Electron version of Slack's resource usage can be insane.
Any software that has a native iOS version, but only has an Electron version on the Mac comes instantly to mind.
The Electron version of Slack's resource usage can be insane.
But do Synergy and Barrier Just Work? It has to Just Work, otherwise it's a defective product, or a rough prototype for some Apple product.
See, that's the thing. My guess is you had to configure Synergy, and as a techie you're blind to this effort. But it is still effort, hence a time sink and a cognitive burden. The Apple version is none of these and a joy to use because Apple puts the emphasis on making it Just Work with zero configuration if possible.
Hundreds of millions more people will experience multi-device control for the first time with Apple Universal Control, than will have ever heard of Synergy.
See, that's the thing. My guess is you had to configure Synergy, and as a techie you're blind to this effort. But it is still effort, hence a time sink and a cognitive burden. The Apple version is none of these and a joy to use because Apple puts the emphasis on making it Just Work with zero configuration if possible.
Hundreds of millions more people will experience multi-device control for the first time with Apple Universal Control, than will have ever heard of Synergy.
> Apple puts the emphasis on making it Just Work
They really, really don't. I have constant Bluetooth issues with all of my Apple devices, and since all of their flashy stuff relies on Bluetooth most of it breaks every couple of days.
Universal clipboard failures, AirDrop failures, AirPod pairing issues when trying to switch between devices, and total Bluetooth stack crashes.
They get things working to 80% and then just stop maintaining them.
They really, really don't. I have constant Bluetooth issues with all of my Apple devices, and since all of their flashy stuff relies on Bluetooth most of it breaks every couple of days.
Universal clipboard failures, AirDrop failures, AirPod pairing issues when trying to switch between devices, and total Bluetooth stack crashes.
They get things working to 80% and then just stop maintaining them.
> But do Synergy and Barrier Just Work? It has to Just Work, otherwise it's a defective product.
I don't own any apple products so correct me if I'm wrong, but if there was a way to make a program to "just work" will Apple allow it? From what I've heard devs complain apple's walled garden is pretty restrictive when it comes to things you can and cannot do especially when mobile devices are involved.
I don't own any apple products so correct me if I'm wrong, but if there was a way to make a program to "just work" will Apple allow it? From what I've heard devs complain apple's walled garden is pretty restrictive when it comes to things you can and cannot do especially when mobile devices are involved.
I’m an Apple developer, and own lots of Apple products.
Apple gear and software always has a low-level advantage, as they own the SDK, but I haven’t seen them actually use this to deliberately disadvantage competitors (unlike some other companies that I won’t mention).
That said, I have seen them “Sherlock” developers, though; where they implement integrated versions of products made by independent devs. This has been fairly controversial, as they have not always paid/given credit to the developers they plowed under. That sucks, because it would, literally, cost them nothing to simply mention the product that inspired their work. I suspect that’s because lawyers.
I tend to like Apple for the same reason that other developers hate them. That “walled garden” is a big fat PItA, but it is also the reason for an enormous, lucrative, market. We need to learn to take the bad with the good, if we want to be happy.
Apple gear and software always has a low-level advantage, as they own the SDK, but I haven’t seen them actually use this to deliberately disadvantage competitors (unlike some other companies that I won’t mention).
That said, I have seen them “Sherlock” developers, though; where they implement integrated versions of products made by independent devs. This has been fairly controversial, as they have not always paid/given credit to the developers they plowed under. That sucks, because it would, literally, cost them nothing to simply mention the product that inspired their work. I suspect that’s because lawyers.
I tend to like Apple for the same reason that other developers hate them. That “walled garden” is a big fat PItA, but it is also the reason for an enormous, lucrative, market. We need to learn to take the bad with the good, if we want to be happy.
> Apple gear and software always has a low-level advantage, as they own the SDK, but I haven’t seen them actually use this to deliberately disadvantage competitors (unlike some other companies that I won’t mention).
Try to write code for macOS that can stream data from disk as fast as Logic Pro. Maybe there's really no magic, and I'm just an idiot, but I certainly couldn't do it.
Try to write code for macOS that can stream data from disk as fast as Logic Pro. Maybe there's really no magic, and I'm just an idiot, but I certainly couldn't do it.
I’m not exactly sure what that has to do with disputing the quoted sentence. It’s actually what I was talking about. Everybody knows that Apple has "internal APIs," giving them access that non-Apple software does not have. This does make it difficult for independent developers to offer competing functionality (this has happened with me), but I have not felt that Apple has deliberately targeted competition. It's just that they have the ability to deliver something that serves the user, and their internal access gives them an advantage.
As an independent developer, I can certainly understand why I would not be allowed to access some of these private APIs, and I don't feel that it is because Apple is afraid of any competition from li'l ol' me. I have always assumed that it's because access at that level may bypass some security methods.
As an independent developer, I can certainly understand why I would not be allowed to access some of these private APIs, and I don't feel that it is because Apple is afraid of any competition from li'l ol' me. I have always assumed that it's because access at that level may bypass some security methods.
You have just described "deliberately disadvantaging" the competition, which was what you said you did not believe Apple had done.
The approach he described is consistent with non-malicious failure to turn a new API into something robust, reliable, external, and well documented. If you’ve got a hot new way to move bytes the long term stability of the API is a real concern. You break things if you change it.
No. "Deliberately disadvantaging" is doing something like adding code to slow down disk write operations used by a direct competitor.
Listen, I'm not gonna play this game. I said my piece, you said yours, we're done.
Listen, I'm not gonna play this game. I said my piece, you said yours, we're done.
Do you really trust the average individual to install apps that with zero configuration can read your screen from any of your devices?
This walled garden is 100% a feature.
This walled garden is 100% a feature.
I’ve used barrier for years and love it. It’s great for separating personal and work devices but having access to both at once. But it requires some effort to run if the server is a static always on workstation, and constant effort if the server is a laptop which goes to sleep and/changes its IP address. I would never recommend it to someone that might need support.
> Hundreds of millions more people
It's a pretty niche feature. I have used both Barrier and Synergy in the past but as a workflow, visually manipulating multiple computers like this sucks. Few people need to do it and life is better if you can avoid needing to do it at all. Multiplatform development is the greatest win but still, the more you can minimise on-target testing, the better. A fast test harness on your dev machine is much nicer.
IMHO remoting into a machine is much less hassle than having a dedicated screen. Most use cases typically involve poking it now and again and having an occasional window on your main display is nicer than giving up desk space and properly aligning another display. If it's not part of your permanent setup then this extra display is often an ergonomic pest. You may be able to share peripherals but if you have to contort your neck to see it then ugh, it's not fun. It can be ergonomically nicer to use their own dedicated peripherals on a side table rather than sharing them.
If it's about sharing data then obviously network accessible storage (cloud, NAS or mount a remote machine's drive) is better.
It's a pretty niche feature. I have used both Barrier and Synergy in the past but as a workflow, visually manipulating multiple computers like this sucks. Few people need to do it and life is better if you can avoid needing to do it at all. Multiplatform development is the greatest win but still, the more you can minimise on-target testing, the better. A fast test harness on your dev machine is much nicer.
IMHO remoting into a machine is much less hassle than having a dedicated screen. Most use cases typically involve poking it now and again and having an occasional window on your main display is nicer than giving up desk space and properly aligning another display. If it's not part of your permanent setup then this extra display is often an ergonomic pest. You may be able to share peripherals but if you have to contort your neck to see it then ugh, it's not fun. It can be ergonomically nicer to use their own dedicated peripherals on a side table rather than sharing them.
If it's about sharing data then obviously network accessible storage (cloud, NAS or mount a remote machine's drive) is better.
Does anything that relies on “Linux on the desktop” just work? Of course not. I say this as a user.
How do I universal control my iPad from my Linux computer? Just Works within your own ecosystem, Never Works outside of it.
Yeah, but nothing sucks quite like Synergy.
On Windows if you accidentally move your mouse off of the login screen you are _completely_ unable to user your client computer. You literally need to use the power button to recover your machine. This issue persisted for years before I gave up on Synergy and all of its suckiness.
On Windows if you accidentally move your mouse off of the login screen you are _completely_ unable to user your client computer. You literally need to use the power button to recover your machine. This issue persisted for years before I gave up on Synergy and all of its suckiness.
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This sounds a lot like the famous comment from yore that Dropbox “was just rsync between a computer and a mounted FTP server” or something.
Your comment makes it sound like not needing to setup apps, not having limitations and having all complexity abstracted away on an OS level are “polishing” or nice to have.
For most people, those thing are the feature.
Chance my mom will use Synergy? 0%. Chance she’ll use Universal Control at some point? I’d say pretty high.
Your comment makes it sound like not needing to setup apps, not having limitations and having all complexity abstracted away on an OS level are “polishing” or nice to have.
For most people, those thing are the feature.
Chance my mom will use Synergy? 0%. Chance she’ll use Universal Control at some point? I’d say pretty high.
such an apple-y article. "genius", "just work", "holy shit", "incredible"
I love how they sell their Mac studio as being "modular" /s
Common mistake.
Modular as in buy-one-of-our-displays-and-connect-to-it modular. Not replace-or-upgrade-a-part-in-it, modular.
Modular as in buy-one-of-our-displays-and-connect-to-it modular. Not replace-or-upgrade-a-part-in-it, modular.
It is. Just you have stick the modules on the outside. Hmm.
TBF at least it’s not another iMac. I see so many of them stacked up for recycling where the logic board or power supply is duff. They still have perfectly good 5k 27” screens attached which are not duff.
I bought a studio display yesterday because I suspect it’ll outlast the iMac it’s no longer attached to.
TBF at least it’s not another iMac. I see so many of them stacked up for recycling where the logic board or power supply is duff. They still have perfectly good 5k 27” screens attached which are not duff.
I bought a studio display yesterday because I suspect it’ll outlast the iMac it’s no longer attached to.
And you connect those modules to each other via industry standard cables. Perfectly modular, see!?
If this is "holy shit", what would they call it if someone made quantum computers perform practical work?
They'll pretend they didn't know that was a thing until Apple "invents" it
Really depends if it was milled from one piece of aluminum and how thin this quantum computer is
Man, there are some cynics in this thread. So it's a feature they loved and found incredible. So what? If you don't agree that's fine, no need to be so negative.
Yeah i was thinking the same thing. Sure it a cute little feature if it works, but to say that "it breaks your brain." is taking hyperbole to a whole new level. Either this person is very easily amused or has been drinking the apple kool aid for a very long time.
It will completely break my brain if it actually works.
I have used Synergy, Mouse Without Border, Multiplicity, and more. They all suck. They. ALL. Suck.
Every single one of them needs to be reconnected multiple times a day. I fix this by using a schedule task that restarts them. lol
They ALL have clipboard issues where the clipboard stops working at some random point in the day.
Some of them have system breaking issues like the Synergy login screen issue. Where if you are at the lock screen (as happens throughout the day) and you move your mouse to another screen, your mouse is 100% stuck on the other screen. The only way to recover your client computer is via the power button. So take all that work you left when you got up to go to the bathroom, take it all and flush it down the toilet. Thanks Synergy. Fuck you Synergy.
They all have issues with more than two machines. Sometimes you can only access the left 100 pixels of a certain machine. Who knows!? It's fun isn't it!? Sometimes a specific screen will just... stop working. Who knows!? You were just sitting there. And now your workday has stopped.
Fuck you Synergy. Fuck you Mouse Without Borders. Fuck you Multiplicity. You all suck. You are all half-ass attempts at something that very much needs to "just work".
I have used Synergy, Mouse Without Border, Multiplicity, and more. They all suck. They. ALL. Suck.
Every single one of them needs to be reconnected multiple times a day. I fix this by using a schedule task that restarts them. lol
They ALL have clipboard issues where the clipboard stops working at some random point in the day.
Some of them have system breaking issues like the Synergy login screen issue. Where if you are at the lock screen (as happens throughout the day) and you move your mouse to another screen, your mouse is 100% stuck on the other screen. The only way to recover your client computer is via the power button. So take all that work you left when you got up to go to the bathroom, take it all and flush it down the toilet. Thanks Synergy. Fuck you Synergy.
They all have issues with more than two machines. Sometimes you can only access the left 100 pixels of a certain machine. Who knows!? It's fun isn't it!? Sometimes a specific screen will just... stop working. Who knows!? You were just sitting there. And now your workday has stopped.
Fuck you Synergy. Fuck you Mouse Without Borders. Fuck you Multiplicity. You all suck. You are all half-ass attempts at something that very much needs to "just work".
Maybe this is a legitimately cool feature, and you’re just used to it by now from other ecosystems and products. Then both your and the author’s reactions can valid.
But this is exactly how Apple products are (and some others, like Dropbox and Toyota). It’s the same core concept as what you can get elsewhere, but much more reliable with less user fussing/configurability.
Genuine question: what are some practical use cases for this? I use my Macbook and iPad but always exclusively for different purposes and never both at the same time.
What are some potential things that this can unlock? I might well try it but just can't think of a practical use case for me.
What are some potential things that this can unlock? I might well try it but just can't think of a practical use case for me.
The iPad is a pretty good art device. At least when it comes to drawing. For final editing touches, I prefer using a desktop.
Being able to treat my iPad and MacBook as one seamless device for art work sounds great.
3D artists, for example, pretty much have to do their 3D modeling work on a desktop. But the iPad is a better device for drawing 2d textures. If I could drag and drop textures onto 3D projects, that’d be nice. Or even just drawing layers on my iPad and dragging them into a desktop photoshop project or something.
Outside of art, it seems much less useful though.
Being able to treat my iPad and MacBook as one seamless device for art work sounds great.
3D artists, for example, pretty much have to do their 3D modeling work on a desktop. But the iPad is a better device for drawing 2d textures. If I could drag and drop textures onto 3D projects, that’d be nice. Or even just drawing layers on my iPad and dragging them into a desktop photoshop project or something.
Outside of art, it seems much less useful though.
I usually do my email and messaging on the iPad now with my Mac’s keyboard and mouse. I can do that while I’m watching something full screen on the mac.
Also it’s really useful when you’re writing up documentation. I draw up draft diagrams in GoodNotes with Apple Pencil and you can just drag them straight across the screens into the target document!
It’s pretty remarkable. I think people will find use cases for it as time goes on because it’s so new it’s not well understood yet.
I like it though. A lot.
Edit: also experimenting with sharing two screens at once on zoom. One with presentation (iPad) and one with code/IDE on it (mac)
Also it’s really useful when you’re writing up documentation. I draw up draft diagrams in GoodNotes with Apple Pencil and you can just drag them straight across the screens into the target document!
It’s pretty remarkable. I think people will find use cases for it as time goes on because it’s so new it’s not well understood yet.
I like it though. A lot.
Edit: also experimenting with sharing two screens at once on zoom. One with presentation (iPad) and one with code/IDE on it (mac)
It's a portable second screen that is thin, has a 10+ hour battery life, can open documents + websites. It's the dream!
You can code on your mac, while reading documentation / keeping an eye on your email on the iPad propped up next to you from any café in the world.
You can code on your mac, while reading documentation / keeping an eye on your email on the iPad propped up next to you from any café in the world.
This sounds like a use case better suited to Sidecar to use the iPad as an external display. I’m not sure I see how it benefits very much from the additional Universal Control features, but having never used it I’m quite open to being wrong.
Sidecar is basically AirPlay mirroring, with the lag and quality degradation that entails.
But can you really context switch between programming and a totally unrelated email without destroying your code quality? I mean this as a genuine question because I work single screen and I typically also need headphones to get in the zone.
With practice yes. I still manage to write decent code while being hammered on slack constantly.
I usually connect to Google Meet calls using my iPad, so I can carry it around if I need to. If I'm working on my computer, the iPad is placed a bit out of reach to make the camera angle work a bit better.
Universal Control means I can now control my mic and hang up using my mouse, instead of having to awkwardly reach to the screen. It's a stupid and basic use case, but hey, it works!
There's no need to have this enable complex new workflows. Sometimes it's about those simple things.
Universal Control means I can now control my mic and hang up using my mouse, instead of having to awkwardly reach to the screen. It's a stupid and basic use case, but hey, it works!
There's no need to have this enable complex new workflows. Sometimes it's about those simple things.
If you're into the grind that comes with being an app developer, this makes testing your apps on real devices much easier.
You can also connect multiple Macs, no iPad needed. I’ve an iMac in my office and I bring my MacBook Pro to lectures, the lab or meetings. I’ll often have both machines on my desk and will need to move some files from one machine to another, usually via Airdrop or some Cloud service.
This just removes some of that friction.
This just removes some of that friction.
I was peer-reviewing some papers yesterday, which I do by annotating PDFs on my iPad with the Pencil. After I finish annotating, I write the review on my laptop. While writing, I moved my cursor over to the iPad to select a sentence I wanted to quote, copied it, and pasted it into my review. Pretty cool.
> annotating PDFs on my iPad with the Pencil
How do you do the annotation? The markup tool or something else?
How do you do the annotation? The markup tool or something else?
I used to use Notability but recently switched to Good Notes. iCloud sync would cause Notability to freeze and the recent Notability subscription drama made Good Notes cheap to switch.
Documents by Readdle for me, but many people use Good Notes.
Some apps only work on one platform (eg. instagram), and this makes using them much simpler.
But there shouldn’t be any restrictions for apps to run on only one device in the first place.
But there shouldn’t be any restrictions for apps to run on only one device in the first place.
Drag and drop files between devices is handy when you quickly need to move media files from one to the other.
connect Ipad->hdmi dongle->hdmi grabber dongle->mac
now you have video source device that looks like webcam.
This feature makes the setup easier to control
You could also use OBS Virtual Camera feature[0] to capture your desktop as a webcam instead of the iPad.
[0]: https://obsproject.com/
[0]: https://obsproject.com/
Files drag n drop
How does this compare with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X2x? x2x is over 25 years old. I'm sure UC is more streamlined, however the basic premise is the same. I did actually use x2x for a while (but normally just "exported the display" back to my home system. X-windows was/is rather amazing.
It's hilarious to see everyone in the linked Twitter thread lose their minds over this feature. It's neat, I'm sure, but we have had Mouse without Borders and several other similar apps for over a decade now doing exactly this.
Ideas are cheap. Hacking together a PoC is too. Shipping some kind of product is a bit more difficult but the first to ship is usually a complete failure. You can point to almost <i>any</i> product category - whether computer related or not - and this holds true. Revolutionary ideas are ahead of their time both technologically and culturally. The makers don't know how to put the ideas to productive use. Then people flail around throwing product ideas at the wall to see what sticks. The implementation is often full of caveats, missing features, or is mere novelty (it folds! why? ... shutup, it folds ok).
Getting the details right is <i>really</i> hard and takes a lot of work. The last 10% takes as much work as the first 90%. Then the next 10% also takes 90%. Repeat a few more times and somehow it ends up being 1000% more difficult than you expected at the start. Often it requires merging multiple major ideas to create something that is more than the sum of its parts (then you get to watch fools who only got 1 of 50 parts correct claim they invented the whole thing).
Be assured that if you are successful a lot of people will rush to make sure you don't get any credit. I recommend you ignore them... their opinions don't matter and listening to them won't help you make better products or delight more customers.
Stay focused on what matters. Even if Slashdot calls your product "lame" it can still make a few billion. Even if HN says your idea can be done already trivially by "any linux user with curlftpfs" you can still create a startup, IPO, and become very rich. Even if someone says "we have had Mouse without Borders [...] for over a decade" you can still deliver a better experience that people will pay money for.
Just because there are existing "solutions" out there doesn't mean they are a) good or b) doing the job customers actually want them to do.
Getting the details right is <i>really</i> hard and takes a lot of work. The last 10% takes as much work as the first 90%. Then the next 10% also takes 90%. Repeat a few more times and somehow it ends up being 1000% more difficult than you expected at the start. Often it requires merging multiple major ideas to create something that is more than the sum of its parts (then you get to watch fools who only got 1 of 50 parts correct claim they invented the whole thing).
Be assured that if you are successful a lot of people will rush to make sure you don't get any credit. I recommend you ignore them... their opinions don't matter and listening to them won't help you make better products or delight more customers.
Stay focused on what matters. Even if Slashdot calls your product "lame" it can still make a few billion. Even if HN says your idea can be done already trivially by "any linux user with curlftpfs" you can still create a startup, IPO, and become very rich. Even if someone says "we have had Mouse without Borders [...] for over a decade" you can still deliver a better experience that people will pay money for.
Just because there are existing "solutions" out there doesn't mean they are a) good or b) doing the job customers actually want them to do.
Sure... but it seems that all the available solutions have their quirks and oddities. Some people (like yourself and the author of the top-level article) seem to think it is literally perfect, while others have issues and irritating experiences (see this [1] comment from this very thread).
Of course if Apple senses there is something cool out there that looks like it has only had e.g. $200k spent on it they could decide to put a bunch of devs on the same issue, spend much more money/time, and get a better product out. IMO that doesn't automatically mean they should go around calling it revolutionary if it does similar things but better or whatever.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30732528
Of course if Apple senses there is something cool out there that looks like it has only had e.g. $200k spent on it they could decide to put a bunch of devs on the same issue, spend much more money/time, and get a better product out. IMO that doesn't automatically mean they should go around calling it revolutionary if it does similar things but better or whatever.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30732528
> IMO that doesn't automatically mean they should go around calling it revolutionary if it does similar things but better or whatever.
It's revolutionary in that it introduces a new capability to the average user (ignoring either tails), changing the way they interact with their computing devices. The mouse was revolutionary, for example. It existed, but the way it was integrated and became the focal point of UI interactions -- revolutionary. Will this be that? Most likely not, but we'll see.
The touchpad on Mac laptops is a better analogy here. Apple got the touchpad right a decade before Windows based machines. It was smooth, responsive, and gestures just worked. This is now an industry standard, but even 10 years ago wasn't a given that you'd have a Windows laptop with the right hardware and drivers. It feels like what they're doing here is very similar.
You seem to think all these problems are solved by throwing money at them, they're so easy. Apple knew the touchpad would be important and invested and vertically integrated. It took laptop manufacturers and Microsoft a decade to coordinate and catch up. I don't even like Apple as a company, but give credit where it's due.
It's revolutionary in that it introduces a new capability to the average user (ignoring either tails), changing the way they interact with their computing devices. The mouse was revolutionary, for example. It existed, but the way it was integrated and became the focal point of UI interactions -- revolutionary. Will this be that? Most likely not, but we'll see.
The touchpad on Mac laptops is a better analogy here. Apple got the touchpad right a decade before Windows based machines. It was smooth, responsive, and gestures just worked. This is now an industry standard, but even 10 years ago wasn't a given that you'd have a Windows laptop with the right hardware and drivers. It feels like what they're doing here is very similar.
You seem to think all these problems are solved by throwing money at them, they're so easy. Apple knew the touchpad would be important and invested and vertically integrated. It took laptop manufacturers and Microsoft a decade to coordinate and catch up. I don't even like Apple as a company, but give credit where it's due.
> The touchpad on Mac laptops is a better analogy here. Apple got the touchpad right a decade before Windows based machines.
And maybe just as important, the "feel" of touchpads on non-Apple laptops is still generally "meh" to outright bad. People choose Apple products because it's clear that Apple prioritizes the UX.
And maybe just as important, the "feel" of touchpads on non-Apple laptops is still generally "meh" to outright bad. People choose Apple products because it's clear that Apple prioritizes the UX.
I have this Logitech software that does the same on my Windows work PC and Mac home Mac, and I can drag the mouse over and use it on both machines. Unfortunately, it does not work when my PC is on VPN (which it is all the time). Apple uses a separate Wifi connection for Universal Control, and it simply always works.
And this is what Apple has been doing for well over a decade now. Pulling to together a bunch of related ideas and solutions that on their own are nothing overly special, but combined turn into something "wow".
Their genius isn't necessarily in being first or even inventing something (touch screen phone), it's tweaking the edges and getting it "just right".
Their genius isn't necessarily in being first or even inventing something (touch screen phone), it's tweaking the edges and getting it "just right".
That’s what I pay them for.
I don’t want to be experimented on like the bleeding edge companies are doing constantly. I want something solid that works.
Of course it’s not perfect but the whole ecosystem integration and solidness is far far far above anything else out there.
I don’t want to be experimented on like the bleeding edge companies are doing constantly. I want something solid that works.
Of course it’s not perfect but the whole ecosystem integration and solidness is far far far above anything else out there.
It also solves some other "ecosystem" problems.
For example I have a few iPad apps installed on my Mac, the reason being that I wanted keyboard/mouse and easier copying of content into and out of the iPad app while I was working on my desktop machine. With universal control I don't need to have the dual installs anymore, nor have to deal with the problems that would come with that (e.g. having to duplicate content across both installs).
There's also plenty of apps which the developer has barred from installing on macOS where this is the only real solution.
For example I have a few iPad apps installed on my Mac, the reason being that I wanted keyboard/mouse and easier copying of content into and out of the iPad app while I was working on my desktop machine. With universal control I don't need to have the dual installs anymore, nor have to deal with the problems that would come with that (e.g. having to duplicate content across both installs).
There's also plenty of apps which the developer has barred from installing on macOS where this is the only real solution.
> There's also plenty of apps which the developer has barred from installing on macOS where this is the only real solution.
You can bypass that with iMazing. It’ll export the raw iPad app, which you can then install on your Mac, and it’ll probably run fine.
You can bypass that with iMazing. It’ll export the raw iPad app, which you can then install on your Mac, and it’ll probably run fine.
This was shut down in the latest updates where it would check the app I believe. There’s a workaround kind of but it’s too troublesome to go through.
this - I used so many different tools and methods to get this same functionality. It's not new or novel. But apple gets it right. They spent the time to make it appear magical.
My first try with iCloud, not long after got introduced, was a disaster. Test disaster only, but a definite disaster.
I turned it on, added a document, turned off, then got notified that my local file will be deleted. Forced the 'iCloud first'paradigm on me. Tried, I was scared away right away and hard.
All this after the security and privacy concern of storing my important data tied to an online account on some sort of who knows what computer location somewhere and some way, non-trasparent.
Since then I put considerable effort avoiding this shitshow, which is not easy, it bugs me to turn on at every possible occasion (updates, new installs, or just for the heck of it sometimes) on a 'small print' way to opting out, it is not a straightforward choice of yes no and that's it but work to choose the other way, confirm that I surely want to go other way. My phone bugs me logging in all the time, update and settings notifications stick permanently, f.g obtrusive.
Never ever will I consider this based on my almost completely negative experiences.
(I used only for syncing contacts but turning it off once on my phone and say yes to the question 'do you want to keep a local copy of contacts' it deleted ALL my contacts from the phone.)
The rumour going around is that the real use case for this feature is Apple Reality.
In AR it will allow you to control devices you physically pickup.
In VR it will create a fake-device and the real screen will be translated and superimposed.
In AR it will allow you to control devices you physically pickup.
In VR it will create a fake-device and the real screen will be translated and superimposed.
Apple’s focus has been on pushing iPhone sales, however it seems now they are acknowledging that golden calf is tired and they are looking at making the ecosystem and services work more. So we’re seeing a merging of device functionality and increased interoperability.
With that in mind what uses would AR/VR offer that go beyond the usual gimmicks? Full floating 2D displays doesn’t seem like something Apple would do. They already do really well with placing 3D models in a space and their LiDAR scanner is impressive. I’d imagine they’re going to do something that makes you need several Apple products with any AR/VR head set.
Like the Apple Watch it’ll require an iPhone to work. It will extend the display of iPads and Macs. Stuff like the Touch Bar does will be shoved off to the side so you can use your fancy display entirely for viewing your content but UI elements will be pushed to the side off screen and you can push your mouse out of the screen to interact with it.
And some Lego AR game or something.
With that in mind what uses would AR/VR offer that go beyond the usual gimmicks? Full floating 2D displays doesn’t seem like something Apple would do. They already do really well with placing 3D models in a space and their LiDAR scanner is impressive. I’d imagine they’re going to do something that makes you need several Apple products with any AR/VR head set.
Like the Apple Watch it’ll require an iPhone to work. It will extend the display of iPads and Macs. Stuff like the Touch Bar does will be shoved off to the side so you can use your fancy display entirely for viewing your content but UI elements will be pushed to the side off screen and you can push your mouse out of the screen to interact with it.
And some Lego AR game or something.
I honestly don't get the appeal of the Apple ecosystem.
Yes, some bits "just work", and yes I wish that parts of the Linux and Windows ecosystems "just worked" too.
But....
There are aspects that not only don't "just work", they are aggressively terrible. For example, I still get wildly infuriated every time I try to share my partner's MacBook screen to my Linux laptop so I can build iOS apps, while my partner is logged into the MacBook. It's staggeringly bad. If I had a few spare thousand currency, sure, I'd buy a separate MacBook and a new iPhone, but that's not an option. Remote X windowing has worked for literally decades; Android remote screen access is trivial. Apple is waaaaaay behind the curve here, and it seems deliberately so, in order to encourage sales of multiple devices.
Small organisations and individual developers make their livings from addressing these issues. Then Apple re-implements the missing functionality, sometimes aggressively shutting out the third party provider; for example, remember f.lux's experience?
https://justgetflux.com/news/2016/01/14/apple.html
But when the missing functionality is added by Apple, the fan-boiz go wild:
https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iphone-night-shift-rev...
...including articles in the mainstream press
https://amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2016/apr/...
I'm sure similar happens in other ecosystems, but the level of hyperbole among Apple fans and degree of seemingly-deliberate brokenness and profiteering makes Apple utterly unappealing to me.
Yes, some bits "just work", and yes I wish that parts of the Linux and Windows ecosystems "just worked" too.
But....
There are aspects that not only don't "just work", they are aggressively terrible. For example, I still get wildly infuriated every time I try to share my partner's MacBook screen to my Linux laptop so I can build iOS apps, while my partner is logged into the MacBook. It's staggeringly bad. If I had a few spare thousand currency, sure, I'd buy a separate MacBook and a new iPhone, but that's not an option. Remote X windowing has worked for literally decades; Android remote screen access is trivial. Apple is waaaaaay behind the curve here, and it seems deliberately so, in order to encourage sales of multiple devices.
Small organisations and individual developers make their livings from addressing these issues. Then Apple re-implements the missing functionality, sometimes aggressively shutting out the third party provider; for example, remember f.lux's experience?
https://justgetflux.com/news/2016/01/14/apple.html
But when the missing functionality is added by Apple, the fan-boiz go wild:
https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iphone-night-shift-rev...
...including articles in the mainstream press
https://amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2016/apr/...
I'm sure similar happens in other ecosystems, but the level of hyperbole among Apple fans and degree of seemingly-deliberate brokenness and profiteering makes Apple utterly unappealing to me.
Exactly my experience too. It's amazing how people get invested in the brand and emotionally attached to the vendor locked walled garden. When you ask for something as simple as universal HiDPI scaling on Apple forums. A feature which many Linux distros have for 5 years now and Windows for even longer. I got passive-aggressive comments of how I should just buy the high-end Apple or LG displays and Apple docks which are literally 3x more expensive.
> It's amazing how people get invested in the brand and emotionally attached to the vendor locked walled garden.
IMO it's just as interesting as the people who hate Apple as if they are some kind of devil incarnate. And then talk down to Apple users like they're dumb, or cult members, etc. The vitriol is fascinating.
I can't decide if the haters are a reaction to the fans, or the fans a reaction to the haters. Probably both at this stage.
IMO it's just as interesting as the people who hate Apple as if they are some kind of devil incarnate. And then talk down to Apple users like they're dumb, or cult members, etc. The vitriol is fascinating.
I can't decide if the haters are a reaction to the fans, or the fans a reaction to the haters. Probably both at this stage.
You know macOS has a built-in bog-standard VNC server right?
The speed of the VNC server is pretty atrocious though. I've tried RealVNC, TightVNC, all the others. Could never get more than 2-3 fps out of it.
In the end wound up buying Jump Desktop which works well.
In the end wound up buying Jump Desktop which works well.
Google Remote Desktop works great and takes troubleshooting network routing out of the equation.
NoMachine for Mac also works quite well.
Yep. Now, tell me how to reliably remotely interact with my MacBook desktop while my partner is logged in to that MacBook and I'm using a separate machine. Note -- and I can't believe this needs spelling out -- I want to see my desktop. Not the login screen, not my partner's desktop.
Also note: reliably. As in repeatably. As in, it "just works". Ha.
I gratefully await your advice.
Meanwhile, I'll refrain from tales of doing this 25 **ing years ago without breaking a sweat.
Sigh.
(Edit: s/view/interact/)
Also note: reliably. As in repeatably. As in, it "just works". Ha.
I gratefully await your advice.
Meanwhile, I'll refrain from tales of doing this 25 **ing years ago without breaking a sweat.
Sigh.
(Edit: s/view/interact/)
> Yep. Now, tell me how to reliably remotely interact with my MacBook desktop while my partner is logged in to that MacBook and I'm using a separate machine. Note -- and I can't believe this needs spelling out -- I want to see my desktop. Not the login screen, not my partner's desktop.
Wouldn’t Screen Sharing work here ? I have to test when I get home today but I’m sure this is possible.
Wouldn’t Screen Sharing work here ? I have to test when I get home today but I’m sure this is possible.
I just created a second user on my MacBook, enabled the built-in VNC server, switched back to the first user, and was able to access the second user's desktop remotely with a VNC client on Windows while the MacBook itself displayed the first user's desktop.
it just works, except when it doesn't.
Two ipads, same settings, one works, the other doesn't. No way to troubleshoot.
Two macs, extending screen from A to B terminates universal control from B to A.
If this is beta, then why was it announced as soon to be released last year?
Two macs, extending screen from A to B terminates universal control from B to A.
If this is beta, then why was it announced as soon to be released last year?
You are forgetting the point that this post is astoturfing .
Just ignore the Apple hypesphere and go about your life.
Just ignore the Apple hypesphere and go about your life.
Astroturfing is fake, this is probably real. Real as in a real person expressing their real opinion. Plenty of people worship the Apple god.
Feels pretty fake to me. I dont know anyone who gets so excited over software KVM.
My 2¢: it's cool, but it doesn't work nearly as well as described here, and this is definitely something that deserves the "beta" label. What's mystifying to me is why this is difficult, because I wrote my own version of this to work between Macs and it works far better than Apple's version, at least theoretically (as in, it works for me, and isn't broken in the ways that Apple's is broken, it's just not ready for release because I haven't polished the UI yet).
Apple's implementation requires you to have all the devices signed into the same iCloud account…well, guess which two computers on my desk I would like to share my input devices across? Yeah, my personal and work laptops, but I'm definitely not going to sign into iCloud on one of them, so the feature is useless for that right out of the gate. (And this is why I made my own thing, to be clear.) Putting that usecase aside, there's a Mac mini under the desk that I use for kernel debugging sometimes, and an iPad next to the monitor. Does it work with those?
For the iPad, if it's on, then sure, it works most of the time. Helpful when I am working on Swift Playgrounds I guess, since the Mac app doesn't have any of the app-making features I want to play with. If I didn't have the iOS Slack and Discord apps running on my Mac, I can see it being useful for that too. But otherwise, I don't really have a need to actually do anything on my iPad if I'm at my Mac, although I would be super interested to hear what people are using this for.
For the Mac mini, things are substantially worse. It's sleeping most of the time, because I'm not using it, and that just means Universal Control doesn't work. It's kind of hilarious because often I will poke it with my software, which uses functionality that Apple already ships (try screensharing into a sleeping Mac!) to wake up the computer, but Universal Control doesn't seem to use it. Even when the computer is on getting it to recognize the device is hit-or-miss, even though they're on the same home network and feet from each other. It seems worse at discovering the device than AirDrop is, which is saying something.
Speaking of which, even when you've got all your devices all linked up, the display configuration part is super janky, for reasons I think are extremely Apple. It looks super cool to do a keynote demo where the mouse approaches the screen edge and jumps over to the device on that side, but in the real world, people have computer layouts that don't match that. My monitors don't always match where devices are in the real world, so I frequently have the cursor appear on the wrong side of the display, and then I need to go into System Preferences anyways to fix the thing, so the magic is completely gone at that point. Plus, the configuration doesn't save and the preference pane to rearrange displays clearly didn't get the necessary love to do screen layout correctly (it's non-trivial, but not actually that hard…a fun exercise in geometric algorithms to make sure all the displays are contiguous and things like snapping work). So things will just jump around, and you'll find that certain displays can't be placed in certain positions. If you get things wrong you might lose your cursor in the "abyss", although I think it tries really hard to keep the cursor on a screen visible.
Honestly, I don't get why the feature is like this. Apple spent months working on this past the initial ship date, and it's still in "beta", and it still seems really finicky. I get the whole "things are hard actually and it's not always obvious why" but I made this thing (and I'd really love to share it, but I just can't yet) and I am not seeing why what Apple did is significantly harder than forming a secure network connection and forwarding Quartz events over it, which is what I'm doing, and seemingly works far better than their implementation does for the purposes of controlling another Mac. What am I missing?
Apple's implementation requires you to have all the devices signed into the same iCloud account…well, guess which two computers on my desk I would like to share my input devices across? Yeah, my personal and work laptops, but I'm definitely not going to sign into iCloud on one of them, so the feature is useless for that right out of the gate. (And this is why I made my own thing, to be clear.) Putting that usecase aside, there's a Mac mini under the desk that I use for kernel debugging sometimes, and an iPad next to the monitor. Does it work with those?
For the iPad, if it's on, then sure, it works most of the time. Helpful when I am working on Swift Playgrounds I guess, since the Mac app doesn't have any of the app-making features I want to play with. If I didn't have the iOS Slack and Discord apps running on my Mac, I can see it being useful for that too. But otherwise, I don't really have a need to actually do anything on my iPad if I'm at my Mac, although I would be super interested to hear what people are using this for.
For the Mac mini, things are substantially worse. It's sleeping most of the time, because I'm not using it, and that just means Universal Control doesn't work. It's kind of hilarious because often I will poke it with my software, which uses functionality that Apple already ships (try screensharing into a sleeping Mac!) to wake up the computer, but Universal Control doesn't seem to use it. Even when the computer is on getting it to recognize the device is hit-or-miss, even though they're on the same home network and feet from each other. It seems worse at discovering the device than AirDrop is, which is saying something.
Speaking of which, even when you've got all your devices all linked up, the display configuration part is super janky, for reasons I think are extremely Apple. It looks super cool to do a keynote demo where the mouse approaches the screen edge and jumps over to the device on that side, but in the real world, people have computer layouts that don't match that. My monitors don't always match where devices are in the real world, so I frequently have the cursor appear on the wrong side of the display, and then I need to go into System Preferences anyways to fix the thing, so the magic is completely gone at that point. Plus, the configuration doesn't save and the preference pane to rearrange displays clearly didn't get the necessary love to do screen layout correctly (it's non-trivial, but not actually that hard…a fun exercise in geometric algorithms to make sure all the displays are contiguous and things like snapping work). So things will just jump around, and you'll find that certain displays can't be placed in certain positions. If you get things wrong you might lose your cursor in the "abyss", although I think it tries really hard to keep the cursor on a screen visible.
Honestly, I don't get why the feature is like this. Apple spent months working on this past the initial ship date, and it's still in "beta", and it still seems really finicky. I get the whole "things are hard actually and it's not always obvious why" but I made this thing (and I'd really love to share it, but I just can't yet) and I am not seeing why what Apple did is significantly harder than forming a secure network connection and forwarding Quartz events over it, which is what I'm doing, and seemingly works far better than their implementation does for the purposes of controlling another Mac. What am I missing?
I'm interested in your solution between Macs as my second one (MBP 2015) is not supported by Apple's feature.
I haven’t tried it on my older Macs but I don’t see why it shouldn’t work with them, too.
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I noticed a big battery drain on my iPad though. Now it will lose a lot of power just because this option is switched on, even when I don’t use it.
Hmm. .Mac and MobileMe always worked for me, happily synching my contacts and calendars. There was a hiccup when it was transitioned from .Mac to MobileMe which was blamed on my use of the mac.com variant of my account name instead of me.com. Nevertheless, this was quickly resolved thanks to an Apple Executive Team intervention, it continues to Just Work.
All I need now is a small extension to Universal Control that would let some direct control be delegated to my AppleID and one of my devices, to temporarily control, for setup and short show+teach sessions, family iPhone and iPad devices in remote locations.
All I need now is a small extension to Universal Control that would let some direct control be delegated to my AppleID and one of my devices, to temporarily control, for setup and short show+teach sessions, family iPhone and iPad devices in remote locations.
Wait having to involve the executive team isn't a disqualifier for "just works"?!
MobileMe didn't work for anyone in the world (parts of the service) in the first month after the launch.
EDIT: need a break for sure
No offense but I Honestly think you need a break. You are letting comments and random people get to you.
What are you talking about? This article is praising Apple for a smooth feature rollout. He gave a rather honest mention of an older botched rollout, but I don't see any bashing at all.
This seems similar to Barrier in Zorin OS. Not across tablets and such, but across Zorin OS devices. I remember using this to share keyboard/mouse across my desktop and laptop, but I rarely end up actually using it.
It seems like one of those things that is interesting in concept, but I can't say I'm seeing the need/use case for it outside of that...
It seems like one of those things that is interesting in concept, but I can't say I'm seeing the need/use case for it outside of that...
For the record, the upstream version of Zorin Connect (KDE Connect) is available on all Linux distros, and also supports mouse control on Android devices.
If this works, it means pretty soon will work sending whole application window from iPad to macOS and vice versa inside some "iEnvelope" Swift wrapper which will allow much higher interoperability. Will be exciting to see it, but at the same time it's disappointing how slow the progress of improving end user OS UIs is.
Whenever I have to copy and paste long passwords or authentication tokens etc. I wonder - is it really a good idea to put a password onto the clipboard?
But it's not as if I'm going to type it, especially into an iPhone, and not all apps support icloud keychain.
But it's not as if I'm going to type it, especially into an iPhone, and not all apps support icloud keychain.
Maybe they could invent a way for PadOs to do something useful?
CoreUSB? XCode? A working Terminal? AppleScript? Logic? Any update at all to GarageBand?
It has literally the same logic inside it. Why do they hobble it like this?
CoreUSB? XCode? A working Terminal? AppleScript? Logic? Any update at all to GarageBand?
It has literally the same logic inside it. Why do they hobble it like this?
With the power of the M1 chip it's amazing how little it can do.
Seriously! What does Apple think you’re supposed to want to do with it?
Yet, it randomly works for me. I use a M1 air with a ethernet cable.. To get it started initially I had to turn on wifi (which drops my download speed from 20MB/s to 2MB/s in my office) and then, disabled wifi, and it still works. Cool! Then, after a while, it stops working...
Turn on wifi to see if there's some retard dependency on the physical layer and nada.. Still not working. Ach, whatever...
Then throughout the day, it just randomly works and doesn't on ethernet.
Da fuq. Ship working code or don't. What is this nonsense? It's, I imagine, a fucking service running on the iPad that receives a stream of events from my Mac like (moved a bit forward on the trackpad). How hard is it?
Turn on wifi to see if there's some retard dependency on the physical layer and nada.. Still not working. Ach, whatever...
Then throughout the day, it just randomly works and doesn't on ethernet.
Da fuq. Ship working code or don't. What is this nonsense? It's, I imagine, a fucking service running on the iPad that receives a stream of events from my Mac like (moved a bit forward on the trackpad). How hard is it?
> How hard is it?
Just keep both network interfaces fired up, and sort them by priority in Network preferences panel (I assume ethernet, then wifi for you use case). Then you can forget about everything and do work, tethered or not.
Turn the bluetooth on as well while you're at it.
This is the way.
Just keep both network interfaces fired up, and sort them by priority in Network preferences panel (I assume ethernet, then wifi for you use case). Then you can forget about everything and do work, tethered or not.
Turn the bluetooth on as well while you're at it.
This is the way.
This worked; I didn’t know this was even a thing, so — many thanks synthmeat!
What would impress me is if each of the devices knew spatially it’s own position and that of all of the other devices. A local 3-D model of local radio emitters.
I use Synergy and gave Universal Control a go. Unfortunately, it doesn't work with the scroll wheel on my Logitech mouse.
Is there any suggestion it will be rolled out to Apple TVs?
I don’t understand this use case. Why would you want to use your mouse and keyboard with tvOS? There’s nothing to drag and drop either.
You can screen share to an Apple TV however.
You can screen share to an Apple TV however.
Random situation: I often sit with either my Macbook or iPad open while watching TV with my SO, there are a bunch of situations (skipping intro, quickly pausing, skipping forward/back) where I need to grab the remote to interact with the TV (or go through a bit of a hassle with pulling up the remote on iPad). Nothing super important but would be kind of neat to have.
I’d imagine the Control Centre remote widget on iOS/iPadOS/WatchOS will come to the Mac. A swipe and a tap isn’t much hassle!
It works. Yet I have no idea what I should use it for.
Wow amazing turns out if you prevent app developers from writing a feature for 10 years, when you do it yourself there's a big demand! Thanks Apple!
It works between Macs as well.
Not that useful do, I use my Macs via ethernet, but I need to turn wifi on in order to use this feature, it really sucks that I need to do that.
You can use both Wi-Fi and Ethernet, just rearrange the interface order in system preferences and your networking will all go through Ethernet and all these features will use Wi-Fi.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202480
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202480
This is surprising. What's in a WiFi connection that is not there in an Ethernet one?
Do they ignore the home network and communicate directly WiFi card to WiFi card?
Do they ignore the home network and communicate directly WiFi card to WiFi card?
It's probably based on AWDL, same as AirDrop. So yes, that's a proprietary peer-to-peer protocol that ignores your home network.
If you disable automatic connection for that network, you can have Wi-Fi on without being connected (I have this setup on a work Mac connected via Ethernet so I can use AirDrop).
You don’t even need to do that, just rearrange the interface order.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202480
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202480
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"It just works" is a lie. It does not just work.
It fails all the time for inexplicable reasons. Eg. one computer has two users signed in -- doesn't work, silent failure, no error message.
Computer not yet booted -- does not work, no way to type in the login password. (Granted this is hard to solve, but would be what I need to get away without a KVM switch)
One computer crashes -- your second Mac is now mouseless for 5 minutes until some time out occurs.
Multiple monitors stacked vertically: You can only move the cursor across one of the borders, the other one doesn't work.
Using a 3rd party mouse with extra functions: can't use them or scrolling won't work anymore.
The problem is that when something fails, there is no error message, no log message, no indication what you need to do to make it work.
As with all Apple solutions, it's a seamless experience if it happens to work, but if it doesn't work you'll be pulling your hairs.
It fails all the time for inexplicable reasons. Eg. one computer has two users signed in -- doesn't work, silent failure, no error message.
Computer not yet booted -- does not work, no way to type in the login password. (Granted this is hard to solve, but would be what I need to get away without a KVM switch)
One computer crashes -- your second Mac is now mouseless for 5 minutes until some time out occurs.
Multiple monitors stacked vertically: You can only move the cursor across one of the borders, the other one doesn't work.
Using a 3rd party mouse with extra functions: can't use them or scrolling won't work anymore.
The problem is that when something fails, there is no error message, no log message, no indication what you need to do to make it work.
As with all Apple solutions, it's a seamless experience if it happens to work, but if it doesn't work you'll be pulling your hairs.
Even the "just works" experience isn't great because it's just not intuitive to setup. There's no confirmation that yes, your iPad and this other machine are connected. It either fails silently, or you realize you can move your cursor over. But where do you move your cursor? You also need to setup Sidecar to tell it where your screens are located. The only way I got it to work was to look through third-party articles. I'd love to see a dropdown list of what machines I'm connected with.
In addition, going from my Mac to an iPad is laggy and it had the caps lock flipped between each machine!
What is really fun though is Synergy, which a few years ago was running a Mac, a Linux box, and an O2 all from the same keyboard and mouse.
In addition, going from my Mac to an iPad is laggy and it had the caps lock flipped between each machine!
What is really fun though is Synergy, which a few years ago was running a Mac, a Linux box, and an O2 all from the same keyboard and mouse.
> The problem is that when something fails, there is no error message, no log message, no indication what you need to do to make it work.
> As with all Apple solutions, it's a seamless experience if it happens to work, but if it doesn't work you'll be pulling your hairs.
This is probably the thing that annoys me the most about Apple stuff, particularly over the last 5 years or so. I know they're never gonna give us knobs and dials to fiddle with this stuff when it goes wrong, but for christ's sake at least tell me what's wrong, or even that something is wrong. Prodding at the controls on my phone trying to work out why the hell it won't connect to the AirPods that are right there is not a good experience for anyone.
> As with all Apple solutions, it's a seamless experience if it happens to work, but if it doesn't work you'll be pulling your hairs.
This is probably the thing that annoys me the most about Apple stuff, particularly over the last 5 years or so. I know they're never gonna give us knobs and dials to fiddle with this stuff when it goes wrong, but for christ's sake at least tell me what's wrong, or even that something is wrong. Prodding at the controls on my phone trying to work out why the hell it won't connect to the AirPods that are right there is not a good experience for anyone.
My favourite example is Airdrop. It never ever was reliable for me, hidden problems made it inoperational between changing combination of 3 apple products (2 MacBooks and one iPhone) most of the time.
Mostly it does not work. The other device does not appear on the 'radar'. Even when works then one file at a time, choosing 3 options for each single one, e.g. transfer 4 pdf I require on the road for travel, drag only one (4 at the same time is refused), accept teansfer, select where to put it let's say files, then select where in files. repeated 4 times. Not even remotely user friendly or making life easier as it was supposed to. But if you have a picture (e.g. screenshot you have no choice at all, it decides that it WILL go among pictures, that's it!
Right now I only can send files from one Mac to iPhone but not the other way around. It was working two ways before until an update on one of the devices, don't remember which one. And remained so even after repeated updates on both (one is an old SE so that may be just behind features or what, but I don't care why! I am not for my f.g phone but the other way around! I paid for it to help me not for solving mysteries! It should just work but it just not!)
Ha, I found the same thing. It’s very buggy right now. But I think there’s still an important grain of truth in the idea that it “just works”. OK it’s buggy, so it doesn’t always work. But when it does, it just works. It’s all or nothing. That’s why people prefer Apple stuff and are willing to overlook bugs. Their competitor’s products come with caveats that go way beyond “it’s got a few bugs we haven’t ironed out yet”.
> But when it does, it just works.
Until it doesn't. A few files in iCloud drive just stopped syncing a handful of times. Is it a network issue? A temporary glitch? Should I restart the computer? Or just wait a little? Nobody knows!
I switched to Syncthing for syncing files. It also fails sometimes. But it shows a clear, actionable error message when it fails (eg: file name contains characters not supported on target device). And there's a button to manually trigger a sync in case the file system observation didn't work.
With iCloud it's always a surprise. Is it going to sync? Probably. When? In the next minute probably. It's been 5 minutes, is there a way to sync right now? Try restarting the computer, maybe that'll fix it.
Until it doesn't. A few files in iCloud drive just stopped syncing a handful of times. Is it a network issue? A temporary glitch? Should I restart the computer? Or just wait a little? Nobody knows!
I switched to Syncthing for syncing files. It also fails sometimes. But it shows a clear, actionable error message when it fails (eg: file name contains characters not supported on target device). And there's a button to manually trigger a sync in case the file system observation didn't work.
With iCloud it's always a surprise. Is it going to sync? Probably. When? In the next minute probably. It's been 5 minutes, is there a way to sync right now? Try restarting the computer, maybe that'll fix it.
> Their competitor’s products come with caveats that go way beyond “it’s got a few bugs we haven’t ironed out yet”.
The unspoken truth. Yes, you may get more debug output in other ecosystems but there are going to be mountains of bugs and a kludge of workarounds to get “seamless” integration.
Can this particular problem be solved better now? Yes. Can every other cross device integration be solved as well? No way!
The pain stretches across software and hardware.
The unspoken truth. Yes, you may get more debug output in other ecosystems but there are going to be mountains of bugs and a kludge of workarounds to get “seamless” integration.
Can this particular problem be solved better now? Yes. Can every other cross device integration be solved as well? No way!
The pain stretches across software and hardware.
I’ve had similar issues, but I believe one of the issues you’re encountering is intentional:
> Multiple monitors stacked vertically: You can only move the cursor across one of the borders, the other one doesn't work.
Once two devices are connected, you can rearrange them in Display preferences just like any other monitors. I found this to work as expected. By default, the connected devices have their monitors aligned such that the corner of one monitor touches the corner of another, but you’re free to change that.
On the other hand, I’ve encountered additional issues. Even with a Magic Mouse or built-in trackpad, there are odd lag spikes.
Scrolling will randomly stop working.
Some first-party iPadOS apps will randomly freeze, including Settings. They’ll stop responding to touch input as well. Other apps will continue to work.
Overall, though, it works well enough that I’ve been using it to run Slack on my iPad while working on my MacBook.
> Multiple monitors stacked vertically: You can only move the cursor across one of the borders, the other one doesn't work.
Once two devices are connected, you can rearrange them in Display preferences just like any other monitors. I found this to work as expected. By default, the connected devices have their monitors aligned such that the corner of one monitor touches the corner of another, but you’re free to change that.
On the other hand, I’ve encountered additional issues. Even with a Magic Mouse or built-in trackpad, there are odd lag spikes.
Scrolling will randomly stop working.
Some first-party iPadOS apps will randomly freeze, including Settings. They’ll stop responding to touch input as well. Other apps will continue to work.
Overall, though, it works well enough that I’ve been using it to run Slack on my iPad while working on my MacBook.
It's not intentional. I know I can rearrange the displays.
Here's my setup (I hope ASCII art works here):
Mac B has a portrait monitor.
I can move between A2 and B. I can't move between A1 and B.
Here's my setup (I hope ASCII art works here):
┌─────┐ ┌───┐
│ A1 │ │ │
├─────┤ │ B │
│ A2 │ │ │
└─────┘ └───┘
Mac B has a portrait monitor.
I can move between A2 and B. I can't move between A1 and B.
That’s intentional. What you’re actually getting is this:
That being said, it’s been far from reliable, and Universal Control is both very late and very much unfinished. I’ve been experiencing different issues from the ones you mentioned, but they’ve been issues nonetheless.
┌─────┐
│ A1 │
├─────┤ ┌─┐
│ A2 │ │B│
└─────┘ └─┘
┌─────┐
│ A1 │ ┌─┐
├─────┤ │B│
│ A2 │ └─┘
└─────┘
That being said, it’s been far from reliable, and Universal Control is both very late and very much unfinished. I’ve been experiencing different issues from the ones you mentioned, but they’ve been issues nonetheless.
> That arrangement had been working for me
Well, it has not been working for me. And I've tried rearranging the displays. I'm not stupid. I had a similar setup with a single Mac before, and it worked fine. The layout looks correct in System preferences.
When moving the mouse between A2 and B, the cursor comes out in the right position. I just can't move from B to A1. (A detail I omitted for brevity: I can move the mouse from A1 to B, but then the cursor jumps down as if it was coming from A2.)
It's definitely a bug, it's not intentional.
Well, it has not been working for me. And I've tried rearranging the displays. I'm not stupid. I had a similar setup with a single Mac before, and it worked fine. The layout looks correct in System preferences.
When moving the mouse between A2 and B, the cursor comes out in the right position. I just can't move from B to A1. (A detail I omitted for brevity: I can move the mouse from A1 to B, but then the cursor jumps down as if it was coming from A2.)
It's definitely a bug, it's not intentional.
Yea i have this issue also. The only alternative was to put the ipad to left of the monitor in displays and drag across to get to it. Works but not good. Hopefully apple will fix soon.
> one computer has two users signed in -- doesn't work, silent failure, no error message
Surely that is an extremely rare scenario. Personally, I've never seen it in real life.
Surely that is an extremely rare scenario. Personally, I've never seen it in real life.
I don’t actually care how rare this is, when you have a major feature of your Operating System like Fast User switching which can leave two accounts logged in simultaneously, then it’s inexcusable to not test under these basic scenarios.
This is just more evidence of the systemic issues Apple has with maintaining software. Forgetting to test new features work with Fast User Switching is a failure to maintain the fast user switching feature of your operating system!
This is just more evidence of the systemic issues Apple has with maintaining software. Forgetting to test new features work with Fast User Switching is a failure to maintain the fast user switching feature of your operating system!
Sadly "Fast User switching" seems to be full of bugs in itself (in my experience).
It does seems to be a feature that gets very little testing or quality control. I'm not surprised at all if it causes issues with Universal Control.
It does seems to be a feature that gets very little testing or quality control. I'm not surprised at all if it causes issues with Universal Control.
I use 2 users constantly on my mac. 1 for personal. 1 for work.
I enjoy the hard separation. separate desktops. seperate windows. seperate instances of apps. seperate download folder. etc etc.
I enjoy the hard separation. separate desktops. seperate windows. seperate instances of apps. seperate download folder. etc etc.
Rare? My wife and me use this all the time on the “living room MacBook” and universal control works without problems.
Try mouse without borders if you’re on windows as well - works without login, across multiple borders, with 3rd party mouse buttons and crashes cause quick disconnect.
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... in beta!
Airdrop has been out for years and it still has the same types of issues, so I have no hopes that they are going to fix it.
Edit: I'm not complaining that there are bugs or corner cases. Every software has that. My complaint is mainly that when something goes wrong, there are no error messages, no diagnostic tools, and the documentation is severely lacking. You have to randomly try things. How do you figure out that fast user switching breaks universal control? I just figured that out by accident. Your only hope is googling the issue and hope that someone figured it out and wrote a blog post about it.
Edit: I'm not complaining that there are bugs or corner cases. Every software has that. My complaint is mainly that when something goes wrong, there are no error messages, no diagnostic tools, and the documentation is severely lacking. You have to randomly try things. How do you figure out that fast user switching breaks universal control? I just figured that out by accident. Your only hope is googling the issue and hope that someone figured it out and wrote a blog post about it.
'Just werks' is great marketing but not backed up by reality. I have the displeasure of being handed an M1 Mac for a new ML and NLP job.
Let's not even talk about the issues osx-arm64 architecture brings for DevOps.
Bluetooth: devices do not disconnect when the device ID put to sleep. If I don't disconnect my headphones before leaving my laptop, I can't connect to my phone. My guess this is done for some Apple Bluetooth features, anyone using not-Apple is SooL.
HiDPI: Not using an Apple monitor? Too bad no hdpi scaling for you.
Yeah the hardware quality and design is nice, software and OS is hot garbage. My Linux Mint ThinkPad had higher UX polish than Macos Monterey.
Let's not even talk about the issues osx-arm64 architecture brings for DevOps.
Bluetooth: devices do not disconnect when the device ID put to sleep. If I don't disconnect my headphones before leaving my laptop, I can't connect to my phone. My guess this is done for some Apple Bluetooth features, anyone using not-Apple is SooL.
HiDPI: Not using an Apple monitor? Too bad no hdpi scaling for you.
Yeah the hardware quality and design is nice, software and OS is hot garbage. My Linux Mint ThinkPad had higher UX polish than Macos Monterey.
Good HiDPI scaling on my external Monitor is one of the reasons i switched back to os x. For me that works very good independent of the monitor manufacturer.
Any notebook with Windows and multiple Linux distros work with HiDPI scaling on any combination of my various docks, monitors, and cables.
Apple definitely does not "just work" in this case. They really "think different" as in different standards to ensure consumer lock-in in their walled garden.
Apple definitely does not "just work" in this case. They really "think different" as in different standards to ensure consumer lock-in in their walled garden.
IME, macOS handles mixed HiDPI better than any other OS. I'm currently using a MBP with it's HiDPI screen and it's driving an LG 4k and a Dell 1920x1200 - all work and look fine.
I've tried Linux a few times in the past and it's been a mess - particularly in a mixed DPI environment. It also seems to come down to individual apps rather than the desktop manager. Not long ago I really wanted to make linux worked and so was asking questions on forums on how to make HiDPI work well, and a common response was 'no one needs HiDPI'...got it.
I've tried Linux a few times in the past and it's been a mess - particularly in a mixed DPI environment. It also seems to come down to individual apps rather than the desktop manager. Not long ago I really wanted to make linux worked and so was asking questions on forums on how to make HiDPI work well, and a common response was 'no one needs HiDPI'...got it.
Interesting. I have the complete opposite experience. HiDPI works great and consistently looks better on macOS than on Ubuntu, e.g..
I'd love to hear what your DevOps issues are. I got an M1 laptop a few months ago and at that point everything just worked out-of-the-box. Ansible, Terraform, Docker.. no issues so far.
I'd love to hear what your DevOps issues are. I got an M1 laptop a few months ago and at that point everything just worked out-of-the-box. Ansible, Terraform, Docker.. no issues so far.
I’ve also had a terrible experience with DPI scaling under Linux.
My Thinkpad Nano has a screen resolution that works best with its UI scaled to 150% or 175%. Windows does this pretty well, with mainly a tiny handful of old stuff where the dev flung a binary over the wall many moons ago and forgot about it not working right. macOS handles this scenario decently too, though at a slight performance hit since it renders at a higher resolution and then scales down.
Linux on the other hand has been a mess. I’ve tried GNOME, KDE, and Cinnamon on the latest Fedora both with X11 and Wayland (except for cinnamon, which is X11 only), and none of them get non-integer scaling 100% right across both the DE and all apps. This is the exacerbated by different UI toolkits having minds of their own and needing independent configuration, where on macOS and Windows they obey the system.
In fact, in my experience Linux works best if you have a boring ultra common setup — Intel iGPU with Intel networking with a single normal DPI monitor. As soon as you start deviating from that, expect things to start getting quirky.
My Thinkpad Nano has a screen resolution that works best with its UI scaled to 150% or 175%. Windows does this pretty well, with mainly a tiny handful of old stuff where the dev flung a binary over the wall many moons ago and forgot about it not working right. macOS handles this scenario decently too, though at a slight performance hit since it renders at a higher resolution and then scales down.
Linux on the other hand has been a mess. I’ve tried GNOME, KDE, and Cinnamon on the latest Fedora both with X11 and Wayland (except for cinnamon, which is X11 only), and none of them get non-integer scaling 100% right across both the DE and all apps. This is the exacerbated by different UI toolkits having minds of their own and needing independent configuration, where on macOS and Windows they obey the system.
In fact, in my experience Linux works best if you have a boring ultra common setup — Intel iGPU with Intel networking with a single normal DPI monitor. As soon as you start deviating from that, expect things to start getting quirky.
>I'd love to hear what your DevOps issues are.
Same. I've been using m1's since they came out and early on Terraform didn't work (had to wait on Go to support apple silicon), but that was over a year ago at this point. Now, everything works great...
Maybe the OP relies on Docker?
Same. I've been using m1's since they came out and early on Terraform didn't work (had to wait on Go to support apple silicon), but that was over a year ago at this point. Now, everything works great...
Maybe the OP relies on Docker?
Docker for Mac has been so bad for so long. I finally moved to running all docker images on a linux box and using syncthing to sync code changes. My battery thanks me.
Yeah I rely on Docker. Anaconda gave a lot of issues too, but that is not my choice for python package mgmnt anyway. All issues are fixed with specifying Linux/amd64 as the build platform and only installing conda in containers. Installing conda locally is not something you should ever do in any case, it makes a mess of your home, shell profiles and environment variables.
Still having OOM 'Killed' errors in builds that I should investigate. Don't know for sure if there are memory limits in default Docker settings on Macos, could be it. In any case, I should respec cleaner builds anyway because right now it's a mess.
Still having OOM 'Killed' errors in builds that I should investigate. Don't know for sure if there are memory limits in default Docker settings on Macos, could be it. In any case, I should respec cleaner builds anyway because right now it's a mess.
Regarding the Bluetooth thing, it's indeed very annoying. I've found this utility that helps: https://github.com/odlp/bluesnooze
Thanks that's one everyday frustration down!
I hate magic spells like this but option+click on “Scaled” and you might get lucky.
Make sure you are using a good cable. Nothing made me hate cables like USB-C
Make sure you are using a good cable. Nothing made me hate cables like USB-C
Why do you need to disconnect your headphones from your laptop to connect them to your phone? When I switch from laptop to iPhone I just go to Bluetooth settings and select the headphones and they connect.
I did turn off the auto-switching for AirPods as that caused some unintended switching and offered too little benefit.
I did turn off the auto-switching for AirPods as that caused some unintended switching and offered too little benefit.
The comments here are actually hard to read.
The only thing I can think of in context of the current world situation is these are "Apple Assets" that are posting on this thread. Or maybe Apple bots. Or just deluded Apple fan boys?
This technology pre-dates Apple and it is not just magic. There is in fact a program running somewhere. But the idea is cool.
HN needs a way to denote bots though or people who think like bots at least.
The only thing I can think of in context of the current world situation is these are "Apple Assets" that are posting on this thread. Or maybe Apple bots. Or just deluded Apple fan boys?
This technology pre-dates Apple and it is not just magic. There is in fact a program running somewhere. But the idea is cool.
HN needs a way to denote bots though or people who think like bots at least.
You know what is more tiring than Apple fan boys? Haters. If this topic does not interest you, close this submission and move on to the next one. HN even provides you a handy little "Hide" link that will keep you from ever seeing it again.
> You know what is more tiring than Apple fan boys? Haters.
I digress. Haters don't spam HN with useless Apple related astroturfing.
I digress. Haters don't spam HN with useless Apple related astroturfing.
My first thought when I read this article was: Dude, I used this probably 20 years ago and even then it had copy and paste between devices and drag and drop.
The case with this, though, is - as the article says - it just works. That's not the case with a single OSS KVM solution I know of. You'll always have to do some amount of configuration apart from installation that prevents widespread adoption.
The case with this, though, is - as the article says - it just works. That's not the case with a single OSS KVM solution I know of. You'll always have to do some amount of configuration apart from installation that prevents widespread adoption.
Yeah I too used this tech many years ago.
Instead of what I consider spam and then all the bots/fanboys. It would be great to hear about how they implemented it. Or how they made it seamless. Much more interesting than an apple circle jerk.
Instead of what I consider spam and then all the bots/fanboys. It would be great to hear about how they implemented it. Or how they made it seamless. Much more interesting than an apple circle jerk.
The other thing to consider is that Apple will be able to integrate at a lower deeper level than third party apps. It’s the drag and drop between devices that is going to be the game changer, that isn’t currently possible with the iPad with a third party app, the APIs don’t exist.
So yes, it’s not new but it is new to 99% of people. Just like smart phones, tablets or portable music “jukebox” players weren’t new but apple took them mainstream.