Ask HN: Is Facebook Dying?
I'm not talking about Meta the company, but rather thier Facebook property. I've been on for about 13 years. My newsfeed lately is a graveyard only populated by ads and some groups I belong to. The only friends left are narcissists or people selling something. I'm not motivated to post anything because I get much less engagement in the form of likes or comments than I used to. Just curious if this is just me or everyone knows it's dying.
239 comments
I think so. From what I gather from people who do use it, it's all about marketplace and business related groups. So it's basically Craigslist and yellowpages for cold calling at this point. These sorts of features simply don't work on their own, real use is what let's you get away with sticking ads in there, if all anyone ever sees are ads they change the channel.
Personally I think all the old guard of social media is dying, and doing their best to hide it. You smell the desperation in their decisions. YouTube, Instagram, twitter, Facebook, reddit, they all seem out of style and things like tiktok, discord and Snapchat seem to be where the hype is. Of course, they're dying at different rates, but they seem to have decided at some point that ux innovation was over, they were done iterating and began to focus on increasing profitability regardless whether decisions improve ux or not, meanwhile new companies began experimenting with different ux approaches and business models. I expect in a few decades it will be common wisdom that social media trends change fast and no social media company will expect to be able to rest on their size and buy up the competition forever.
Personally I think all the old guard of social media is dying, and doing their best to hide it. You smell the desperation in their decisions. YouTube, Instagram, twitter, Facebook, reddit, they all seem out of style and things like tiktok, discord and Snapchat seem to be where the hype is. Of course, they're dying at different rates, but they seem to have decided at some point that ux innovation was over, they were done iterating and began to focus on increasing profitability regardless whether decisions improve ux or not, meanwhile new companies began experimenting with different ux approaches and business models. I expect in a few decades it will be common wisdom that social media trends change fast and no social media company will expect to be able to rest on their size and buy up the competition forever.
I wonder how Snapchat could be any popular or hyped. The only time I encounter it are Tinder profiles trying to sell me over Snapchat their time-expiring photos for EUR 30 per item.
Snapchat is privacy. You can send a snap and it's deleted -- and importantly your mom can't find the pictures of you smoking weed.
Didn't I hear that this was false? Maybe its deleted from your device but not their servers
I tried using Snapchat once and as a privacy conscious person, it felt more like spyware than an actual program. So many dark patterns and automatic turning on of cameras. I shared as little data as I could and I still got recommended family members.
TL;DR: DO NOT USE SNAPCHAT
TL;DR: DO NOT USE SNAPCHAT
That is not why people use Snapchat, it's for privacy from other people, not privacy from the corporation itself.
Snapchat already came and went. TikTok killed it.
There are still people using ICQ, but it doesn't mean it's not dead.
There are still people using ICQ, but it doesn't mean it's not dead.
Snapchat is biiiiiig among gen z
A twelve year old laughed at me for using Facebook - and I mean a genuine, mirthful, hearty laugh. I'm thirty. If I'm being laughed at by someone from generation Z for using Facebook... how will Facebook grow? And I don't even use Facebook that much; most of my social activity occurs on Discord.
I don't mind being on a platform that's not used by 12 year olds. I'm looking for interesting social/political/philosophical/technological content and engagement, and I suspect only a minority of teenagers are really interested in that.
And while teenagers are on Discord, my impression is that their content there isn't great either. The interesting stuff on Discord is also mostly from 40-somethings.
Thing is, facebook has never been a great place for these things. I still have a FB account, but I haven't checked it in years, and back in the days when I did, there was only one person posting really interesting stuff. Everything else was just lame crap. For a while, I set FB to notify me when that guy posted anything and just ignored everything else, but I really wish he'd just post on a better platform.
And while teenagers are on Discord, my impression is that their content there isn't great either. The interesting stuff on Discord is also mostly from 40-somethings.
Thing is, facebook has never been a great place for these things. I still have a FB account, but I haven't checked it in years, and back in the days when I did, there was only one person posting really interesting stuff. Everything else was just lame crap. For a while, I set FB to notify me when that guy posted anything and just ignored everything else, but I really wish he'd just post on a better platform.
Discord has a discovery problem. Your in channels you get invited to or made aware of, and most of those channels are echo chambers where the people running the channel are obsessed with getting you to post in them (even if its complete nonsense)
There are some quality discord channels, but how do you learn about or get invited to them in the first place?
There are some quality discord channels, but how do you learn about or get invited to them in the first place?
In this particular case, one of my favourite RPG writers posted about it on MeWe. He, together with some other RPG writers, runs the place. It's tied to their Patreon, they organise talks and workshops for members. Most of the channels are about RPGs of course, but they have channels about tons of other topics too. One of my favourites is their channel about TV & movies, because there I get to discuss TV shows and movies with people who tend to have a similar taste as I do.
It's absolutely an echo chamber; it's mostly people who grew up with British roleplaying games in the 1980s and still love them today. But it's a fun group.
It's absolutely an echo chamber; it's mostly people who grew up with British roleplaying games in the 1980s and still love them today. But it's a fun group.
Wikisocial comes to mind. Have you tried that?
12 year-olds have always laughed at Facebook and instead used, X (kik, Snap, Tiktok, etc). They are a fickle bunch with no interest in being on the same platform as their parents. This is not anything new.
I'd argue that the NYT's war on FB and Apple's policies around privacy (e.g. "Tracking your data" when FB and "Enhancing your user experience" when APPL).
I'd argue that the NYT's war on FB and Apple's policies around privacy (e.g. "Tracking your data" when FB and "Enhancing your user experience" when APPL).
When my cohort was 12 facebook was cool as hell. Things really have changed, and I think OP is right. The facebook property has an expiration date.
But when your cohort was 12, were your parents on Facebook? Or were they on another platform (or no platform at all)? Facebook was the cool hen MySpace was the ew after all.
I quit Facebook when my mom and grandma started sending me friend requests. Maybe around 2009 or so.
Meta is cool, like Xi!
I read an article a while ago saying that for millennials, they love follower counts and likes, while zoomies will freely move between platforms with the days' trends without really caring about that stuff.
Personally I don't care about follower counts and likes and other such nonsense. I stick to one platform because I've met people there I like to chat with
I'm also not just consuming content and trying to stay ahead of trends.
I'm also not just consuming content and trying to stay ahead of trends.
Your view seems to ignore the temporal aspect, for one the original userbase of FB was students, they certainly weren't parents. FB hasn't been around that long, so to suggest anything has 'always' been the case ignores how this has been a very rapidly evolving ecosystem of software, from a generational point of view.
You're missing the forest for the tree. It doesn't matter what software platforms or communications methods are involved - children (or rather descendants, since they may be adults) generally do not wish to share the same social platform as their parents / older relatives.
I totally agree, that's the point of my comment even. This is a moving target, nothing 'always' about it. We're discussing the decline of facebook over time, and it started being popular with an entirely different age group than it is now.
I also think it's worth noting these are relatively new phenomenon, we haven't even had social networks for long enough to pin down trends so absolutely.
I also think it's worth noting these are relatively new phenomenon, we haven't even had social networks for long enough to pin down trends so absolutely.
I appreciate my parents being on FB. But I’m an adult. I also left FB for a time though too.
I think FB can do real psychological harm so you have to be psychologically prepared for it.
I think FB can do real psychological harm so you have to be psychologically prepared for it.
Those college students grew up and that age group make up the bulk of facebook with their parents on as well.
Exactly, so it's not the case that FB has 'always' been for old people, is my point. It has evolved over time, as we're seeing most social networks doing. It seems hard to become a long term incumbent, but it's evolving in front of us.
My little nephew categorized all Facebook users as "40 year old Moms drinking wine". Among a certain generation, the possession of a Facebook login is a cause for ridicule.
Well that's how I describe it too tbh
That kid knows what's up
Sounds legit
> how will Facebook grow?
Probably by buying the next up and coming networks, just like they did with Instagram and Whatsapp.
Probably by buying the next up and coming networks, just like they did with Instagram and Whatsapp.
I think this would have certainly been in the cards in the past, but at least for the moment there is regulatory backlash against anything seen as anticompetitive, especially buyouts like you referenced. (I Work with M&A teams)FB is having to pay significantly above market to attract and retain talent, and the use patterns are not well aligned to homegrown competitors to tik tok. Some might argue this is why such a big bet is being placed on the “metaverse” business plan. But these trends may be the biggest long term challenge they have faced since the rise of mobile.
There's no chance in hell regulators let them get away with it. They couldn't even acquire Giphy, let alone something more serious.
> most of my social activity occurs on Discord.
Explain like I’m 60? How do you use it?
Explain like I’m 60? How do you use it?
well, like IRC.
Like IRC, but instead of controlling a server, channel or user account yourself you are in full merci of the auto ban bots on a closed platform. Instead of using one of thousands of thin clients you are forced to use one of their few thick ones, hungry for memory. And because nobody but discord can actually moderate, the platform is full of spam and scam. What they do against spam? Nothing, but requiring a phone number that works with their 2fa what automatically locks out people without a (supported) phone number, for a online chat.. what a time to be alive
Just like IRC, but doing everything wrong that made IRC great.
Just like IRC, but doing everything wrong that made IRC great.
What's the problem with moderation? Not only can you do all the same kinds of kicking/banning you could on IRC manually, there's a pretty clean API that lets you write bots to do it, and plenty of third party bots able to automate common tasks if you don't feel like writing one yourself.
All the other points stand, and the platform is indeed full of spam and scam - because many "servers" are run and inhabited by kids who don't investigate any of the moderation options and/or actively participate in the spamming themselves - but it certainly doesn't mean it can't be done.
(IRC was full of spam and scam as well as soon as you stepped away from the better kept communities; and also things like DOS wars and hostile channel takeovers during network splits, which Discord seems so far largely free of)
All the other points stand, and the platform is indeed full of spam and scam - because many "servers" are run and inhabited by kids who don't investigate any of the moderation options and/or actively participate in the spamming themselves - but it certainly doesn't mean it can't be done.
(IRC was full of spam and scam as well as soon as you stepped away from the better kept communities; and also things like DOS wars and hostile channel takeovers during network splits, which Discord seems so far largely free of)
Go into any crypto related community and wait a day until the spam bots start bombarding your with DMs. Sometime stupid, sometimes downright well done scam. Sometimes things you are expect to answer. No visual difference there if you don't know all the verification bots by name & Id. In my point of view it's a dangerous platform because of the lack of general moderation.
It shouldn't be the server owners problem to repeat the same lines warning against the same things again and again because they lack actual control.
It shouldn't be the server owners problem to repeat the same lines warning against the same things again and again because they lack actual control.
"Allow direct messages from server members" is a setting you can control. You can toggle it per server, and also set the default for new servers you join. This is more control than the IRC protocol offers - you can globally ignore all private messages there, or permit them. (You can also block individual users, of course, which you could also do with IRC). Private message spam is also a thing on IRC (though there it tends to be the "lonely women in your area" sort rather than crypto).
This really feels like a social problem, not a technical one; and not one specific to Discord, though it sounds like you have encountered some particularly bad communities there.
This really feels like a social problem, not a technical one; and not one specific to Discord, though it sounds like you have encountered some particularly bad communities there.
> Go into any crypto related community
Lie down with dogs, and get fleas.
Lie down with dogs, and get fleas.
> What's the problem with moderation?
The OP mentioned a bunch of problems spawning from the platform's lack of moderation, among which there's spam and scams.
The OP mentioned a bunch of problems spawning from the platform's lack of moderation, among which there's spam and scams.
OP didn't mention discord at all. Do you mean my post's parent? They said "because nobody but discord can actually moderate", which is counter to my experience; therefore my post asking for clarification. I'm keen to understand what the moderation tasks are that discord can accomplish that the users who are discord server admins cannot; perhaps I will learn something new, or perhaps I may be able share something I know.
Certainly, as I mentioned, I do see problems with scams and spamming in some communities due to the admins of those communities choosing not to moderate, or not knowing/caring that it is possible, but those problems do not seem specific to discord - IRC also had them, as do other platforms. Hence my confusion.
Certainly, as I mentioned, I do see problems with scams and spamming in some communities due to the admins of those communities choosing not to moderate, or not knowing/caring that it is possible, but those problems do not seem specific to discord - IRC also had them, as do other platforms. Hence my confusion.
I think what makes/made IRC great is not any of those things, but the people that use it. Most people don't use a platform for the platform itself, but for the people that use it.
How does Discord spam work? I only really follow one Discord community (which has a few dozen channels), and it feels like the people organising it are in full control. I certainly haven't seen any spam there. It's a nice place to hang out with like-minded people (which in this case means middle-aged people who grew up with WFRP).
If you go to more generalized (ie. Tech) or especially crypto related servers and you'll get flooded with DMs.
The spam is kinda neglaceable 8f you just ignore all DMs, the smart scam I've seen is outright dangerous tho.
The spam is kinda neglaceable 8f you just ignore all DMs, the smart scam I've seen is outright dangerous tho.
So it’s like AOL and AIM but with more features.
not disagreeing with anything there. i use irc more, myself.
merely noting that the social interaction mode with other users is IRC style.
merely noting that the social interaction mode with other users is IRC style.
Stepped into that one
It's just like Slack, but for people without jobs. /s
So why not just use IRC? What makes Discord different/better?
'Everybody' is already on Discord and I doubt I can convince all of them to move to IRC. Plus voice and video chat.
Not having to use bouncers, being able to use it on multiple devices at once, SSL-only. Using IRC on a phone is a giant PITA.
I wouldn't wish having to use EFNet on anyone, either.
I wouldn't wish having to use EFNet on anyone, either.
The audience, voice and video chat built in, more advanced bot support.
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I have used discord intensively in the past but it was tightly linked to very narrow interests, like video games. I never discovered anything on discord, I rather got discord invites from other forums or what have you.
Are there discovery features in discord I may not be aware of?
Are there discovery features in discord I may not be aware of?
The lack of discovery is precisely why it's so popular, in my opinion. Communities have a much easier time gatekeeping so you avoid redditization and have a much greater sense of privacy.
> much greater sense of privacy.
This could have been the case, but Discord blocks me from making new accounts without a separate, expensive mobile phone number.
You can’t even join most servers without having a bot ping your name publicly. This name is then searchable by any user in that server by searching for “mentions:yourcurrentname#tag”. This applies even if you changed your username since then.
You also cannot turn off the ability for someone to see what mutual servers or mutual friends you have.
Any of the above issues would be manageable as a single issue, but when combined, Discord is the worst tool for privacy, bar none.
This could have been the case, but Discord blocks me from making new accounts without a separate, expensive mobile phone number.
You can’t even join most servers without having a bot ping your name publicly. This name is then searchable by any user in that server by searching for “mentions:yourcurrentname#tag”. This applies even if you changed your username since then.
You also cannot turn off the ability for someone to see what mutual servers or mutual friends you have.
Any of the above issues would be manageable as a single issue, but when combined, Discord is the worst tool for privacy, bar none.
There's always been endless third party websites, and I believe they added first-party discovery for public community servers a while ago. Community servers have been getting some serious features, too. They really are rapidly (and successfully) becoming something more like traditional social media.
I had no idea this was a thing, but I'm probably about the same, Discord is my main social media platform. Used to be HN.
HN is/was a social media site? And discord a general social media site? From what I’ve seen of discord it comes across as a site for gamers around gaming world and then proceeding to include also those “interest groups” (ie eating Telegram’s lunch) where those people are active who keep messaging incessantly, memes, LOL kinda things and all.
(I mean of course in a pedantic way a lot of site of the Internet will be considered social media sites but we are talking about Facebook specifically here)
(I mean of course in a pedantic way a lot of site of the Internet will be considered social media sites but we are talking about Facebook specifically here)
Yes, these are social networks. Arguably even a vBulletin forum is a social network and I’ve met some of my best friends in life on those when I was a young lad.
If you can post somewhere as a person, build a reputation or identity there, interact with a community and build relationships: congrats, you have a social network. The mechanics of me replying to you on HN, sending an iMessage to a girl, sending a Slack message to my boss or posting to a group in Discord are nearly identical but the people and the intricacies of the software differ. This is one of the reasons I’ve never been a fan of the “Facebook is a social media monopoly” line of thinking, at least in America. Just doesn’t work if you sit down and think about it, it’s just another website that does a few things better than some others and they are massively successful because of what they’ve chosen to be good at.
HN is a lot like /., Digg or very early Reddit to me, and it makes sense because it was started with a lot of the same ideas towards the end of that era, but with a purpose to serve Y Combinator’s needs.
If you can post somewhere as a person, build a reputation or identity there, interact with a community and build relationships: congrats, you have a social network. The mechanics of me replying to you on HN, sending an iMessage to a girl, sending a Slack message to my boss or posting to a group in Discord are nearly identical but the people and the intricacies of the software differ. This is one of the reasons I’ve never been a fan of the “Facebook is a social media monopoly” line of thinking, at least in America. Just doesn’t work if you sit down and think about it, it’s just another website that does a few things better than some others and they are massively successful because of what they’ve chosen to be good at.
HN is a lot like /., Digg or very early Reddit to me, and it makes sense because it was started with a lot of the same ideas towards the end of that era, but with a purpose to serve Y Combinator’s needs.
HN is a social network as much as LinkedIn. They might not look the same and have the same features, but people connect with each other in varying ways on here.
Discord it depends, but if you join the right communities, it's like joining the perfect Facebook Groups.
Discord it depends, but if you join the right communities, it's like joining the perfect Facebook Groups.
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I’m 30 and I don’t want anyone to know I open Facebook. I only use it for marketplace and to receive messages from my older relatives. I feel like it’s associated with dumb content and being manipulated to watch hollow nonsense. But I also don’t use TikTok for the same reasons.
I do install Instagram every now and then because many of my friends send me memes there and I don’t want to ignore them forever, but it’s just a touch and go.
Facebook is lucky to not have to chase the 12 year old market. They get bored quickly, have no money, and are impossible to keep interested for very long.
Having the boomers is something everyone mocks FB for, and no one realizes it's why they're so successful.
Having the boomers is something everyone mocks FB for, and no one realizes it's why they're so successful.
Did he laugh at you for oculus or instagram?
Well, the subject of this topic is the original Facebook itself, not its other properties like Instagram.
That said, if I'm not mistaken I think Instagram too is deemed to be something for "old" folks by the current set of teens, tweens, and younger twentysomethings.
That said, if I'm not mistaken I think Instagram too is deemed to be something for "old" folks by the current set of teens, tweens, and younger twentysomethings.
The fortysomethings I know also think it's only for old folks. Do thirtysomething's still use Facebook ironically, or something?
> Do thirtysomething's still use Facebook ironically, or something?
Not among my peers. Facebook is seen as a way to communicate with older and tech-challenged relatives. It's in the same category as LinkedIn -- a social network whose content is mostly cringe and that you're only on as a means to an end, not because it's a good product.
Not among my peers. Facebook is seen as a way to communicate with older and tech-challenged relatives. It's in the same category as LinkedIn -- a social network whose content is mostly cringe and that you're only on as a means to an end, not because it's a good product.
I was ridiculed in my local cafe for not having a Facebook account. This was by people in my age group (mid fifties).
I had an account years ago but abandoned it as soon as they started to monetise (same for Twitter).
I had an account years ago but abandoned it as soon as they started to monetise (same for Twitter).
> most of my social activity occurs on Discord.
Same here.
Same here.
This makes me happy. Facebook is abusive, evil, and lame. They’ve completely lost touch and deserve that laugh.
I don't use FB but maybe when that 12 year old gets older they will start using it.
Can confirm, would've laughed too.
- at the end of last year they recorded a decrease in users
for the first time
- their users are about a quarter of the world's population; at that scale even a downward trajectory will take ages and it will likely stabilisie at some point
- there's many people who aren't like you out there in the world, there are more people like you on HN so it will be easier to find similar opinions to yours
- their users are about a quarter of the world's population; at that scale even a downward trajectory will take ages and it will likely stabilisie at some point
- there's many people who aren't like you out there in the world, there are more people like you on HN so it will be easier to find similar opinions to yours
"How did you go broke?"
"Slowly at first, then all at once."
"Slowly at first, then all at once."
It seems like myspace and digg died pretty fast, so it's definitely possible.
Digg fired the ultimate footgun when they literally reformatted their entire site and ignored feedback.
That’s how I found reddit - the great digg exodus, about 15 years ago.
That’s how I found reddit - the great digg exodus, about 15 years ago.
Given that Facebook bafflingly renamed their entire company “Meta”, I wouldn’t put a Digg-like move past them.
I think the name change pretty clearly indicates that Facebook, er, Meta agrees with the OP.
The Facebook property itself has pretty clearly already reached the high water mark. So they change the parent company name to make the distinction that Meta is not just Facebook, which they're hoping will insulate themselves from one of their products fading away as they bring up new separate social products that solve the generational silo requirement of the market.
The Facebook property itself has pretty clearly already reached the high water mark. So they change the parent company name to make the distinction that Meta is not just Facebook, which they're hoping will insulate themselves from one of their products fading away as they bring up new separate social products that solve the generational silo requirement of the market.
That rename certainly doesn't inspire much confidence.
They both had a direct competitor that had been stalking them for years before implosion, and neither were as well established or well funded as Meta/Facebook.
For sure. That was a pretty different era though! There was still uncertainty about who would win, but Facebook is the Google of social media networks at this point. There is an incredible amount of resistance to uproot them.
Is google really that sticky in 2022? Android is bleeding market share, maps and search are undifferentiated. They have an ad network and an office suite, but the network effects of those last two are middling, at best.
Sure, there's switching inertia, but there's no "killer app" that consumers lose by leaving the google ecosystem. (Except YouTube, I guess.)
Sure, there's switching inertia, but there's no "killer app" that consumers lose by leaving the google ecosystem. (Except YouTube, I guess.)
Android is bleeding marketshare to whom? PalmOS? Windows Mobile? Outside of the Great Firewall they dominate everything.
Apple's IOS is shrinking globally due to Apple chasing premium customers and pricing itself out of the market. An iPhone SE is $399 after discounting, the average selling price for a smartphone outside the US is about $90.
The iPhone 13 is a truly fantastic product, state of the art with an SOC that is years ahead of the competition. I'm truly privileged not only to own one, but to live in a country where the average man on the street can also afford to buy one for every member of his family. But I'm part of a tiny minority.
Apple's IOS is shrinking globally due to Apple chasing premium customers and pricing itself out of the market. An iPhone SE is $399 after discounting, the average selling price for a smartphone outside the US is about $90.
The iPhone 13 is a truly fantastic product, state of the art with an SOC that is years ahead of the competition. I'm truly privileged not only to own one, but to live in a country where the average man on the street can also afford to buy one for every member of his family. But I'm part of a tiny minority.
In the US at least, iOS has higher uptake than android for the first time ever in younger age cohorts https://fburl.com/2m6hv5lb
I recall a recent article on HN about this
I recall a recent article on HN about this
Google search is not going anywhere and nobody is building a popular android alternative anytime soon.
The posting of status updates has declined, but at least for me there's still a lot of worthwhile content there which I can't get anywhere else.
I am a member of a number of active Facebook Groups for neighbourhood news, some niche hobbies too small to have their own forums, etc.. I also quite come across planned sport/music events which have only a very basic website, with all updates about the event posted on Facebook.
I think the killer feature is the to the ability to post photos along with text and then discuss it, without relying on external services. Forums can't handle photos well, and Instgram doesn't deal with long form text or extensive discussion well.
I am a member of a number of active Facebook Groups for neighbourhood news, some niche hobbies too small to have their own forums, etc.. I also quite come across planned sport/music events which have only a very basic website, with all updates about the event posted on Facebook.
I think the killer feature is the to the ability to post photos along with text and then discuss it, without relying on external services. Forums can't handle photos well, and Instgram doesn't deal with long form text or extensive discussion well.
Fingers crossed, praying and wishing that it's dying!!
I grew up during the Cold War and instantly recognized FB as a Stasi-wet-dream surveillance tool. Never signed up and never will.
I'm encouraged that younger folks are rejecting it though I worry they may simply substitute something else equally bad (e.g. TikTok).
I grew up during the Cold War and instantly recognized FB as a Stasi-wet-dream surveillance tool. Never signed up and never will.
I'm encouraged that younger folks are rejecting it though I worry they may simply substitute something else equally bad (e.g. TikTok).
They use Instagram
No they don't, that's old news. 28 year olds chasing validation use Instagram. It's on its way out too. Real young people use discord, Snapchat and tiktok.
Nah they def use Instagram, but more as a landing page, Its not cool to post a lot, people in their 20s will have their old posts,rarely posting new ones, but with updated stories.. Teens will have 1 or ZERO actual posts(much cooler), and sparingly use stories, and the stories collections/archive on display above posts are the 'new' way to post. Hardly know any teen or 20 something that uses snapchat as tiktok replaced it years and years ago
The point still stands, though. Tiktok tracks just as much user data as facebook does.
What we should be doing is use non-commerical, decentralised, people-centric social networks that aren't looking for every opportunity to monetise everything.
What we should be doing is use non-commerical, decentralised, people-centric social networks that aren't looking for every opportunity to monetise everything.
True except for Snapchat, it was never popular here in Asia. Instead of snapchat, zoomers here use FB Messenger, often under a throwaway FB account. It is the same for their tiktoks, also using a throwaway account/anonymous. A stark contrast from millennials/boomers who use their nickname or even their real name on their social medias
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The younger generations seem to have long abandoned it, first in favor of Instagram (I know it's also a FB property), then to others - i.e. TikTok, etc. At least in the US.
The only people I see still regularly posting personal updates to FB are older people.
The only people I see still regularly posting personal updates to FB are older people.
Yes. My older relatives are still on Facebook and most of them use it heavily. My younger relatives, while most of them do have an account, are seldom if ever on there.
I stay on because the older relatives are there, and I like to stay in touch with the extended family. If it weren't for them, I'd be gone as well.
I stay on because the older relatives are there, and I like to stay in touch with the extended family. If it weren't for them, I'd be gone as well.
Same for me. I'm at the age that I feel straddles the social media generational gap (thirties).
I use Instagram far more than FB, but still have enough (older) friends/family on FB to check it out now and then.
The bulk of my social circle ranges from late 20s to early 40s and they seem to be heavily active on Instagram. I don't have a TikTok account at all (yet)...unsure if anyone I am close to uses it or not.
I use Instagram far more than FB, but still have enough (older) friends/family on FB to check it out now and then.
The bulk of my social circle ranges from late 20s to early 40s and they seem to be heavily active on Instagram. I don't have a TikTok account at all (yet)...unsure if anyone I am close to uses it or not.
There also seems to be a component to internet culture that transcends generation a bit. Like if you are into gaming and play new releases, you'll be playing along with all age groups that enjoy gaming. There isn't really a clear divide between "Games for young adults" and "Games for old people".
One place I have noticed some divides for myself at least is in memes, because naturally they tend to be in jokes between tighter knit social groups that eventually become popularized. By the time I see a new meme it's already uncool.
One place I have noticed some divides for myself at least is in memes, because naturally they tend to be in jokes between tighter knit social groups that eventually become popularized. By the time I see a new meme it's already uncool.
Same for me.
This is a strong indicator that FB meaningful usage will fall off a cliff when older relatives start dying. Also lots of risk of dead people's accounts getting hacked.
This is a strong indicator that FB meaningful usage will fall off a cliff when older relatives start dying. Also lots of risk of dead people's accounts getting hacked.
Facebooks one thing that I find valuable is the marketplace. Like Craigslist but easier to verify if user is real.
Where do the young folk who don’t use Facebook sell their random crap they’re getting rid of because they’re moving?
Where do the young folk who don’t use Facebook sell their random crap they’re getting rid of because they’re moving?
The young folk don’t own anything.
Not much point owning stuff if you can't afford a house to keep it in.
This is so very true. You nailed the young cohort's attitude on the head. We own cars, clothes, laptops, phones, and rent everything else. It is not always a pleasant way to be.
OfferUp is what I use
> Where do the young folk who don’t use Facebook sell their random crap they’re getting rid of because they’re moving?
Serious question - do people not use eBay any more?
Serious question - do people not use eBay any more?
I find that for almost every thing on Facebook, there's another app that does it better. It's just that if you don't want to deal with a bunch of different apps, there's always Facebook.
Mercari, Depop, ThredUp, and Poshmark are all clothing focused but I've seen more and more random crap pop up over time.
Offerup and craigslist
I thought they abandoned it years ago for Snapchat, then switched to TikTok
personally I abandoned it for nothing almost 10 years ago, I don't see any added value, though wife use their marketplace to sell things to clueless people for more than they cost on regular classifieds sites, so I guess that would be only beneficial reason I can see in using FB if you want get more money for your used stuff
personally I abandoned it for nothing almost 10 years ago, I don't see any added value, though wife use their marketplace to sell things to clueless people for more than they cost on regular classifieds sites, so I guess that would be only beneficial reason I can see in using FB if you want get more money for your used stuff
Funny enough young people (teenagers) seem to prefer facebook where I live.
Where I live in Asia it’s indispensable, but still pleasant.
I only participate on heavily moderated local groups about local issues. It’s a wonderful way to communicate with people in your community and learn what’s going on.
I unfollowed everyone I know in America and don’t interact with any of them.
I only participate on heavily moderated local groups about local issues. It’s a wonderful way to communicate with people in your community and learn what’s going on.
I unfollowed everyone I know in America and don’t interact with any of them.
> Where I live in Asia it’s indispensable, but still pleasant.
What would happen if it disappeared?
What would happen if it disappeared?
It would be really difficult to find anything because businesses are so terrible at advertisement and sales in general here.
The government is also terrible at communicating, so it would be very difficult to figure out when laws have changed, and how they are being implemented in practice (very important during Covid).
There are other community based websites here, but they are much less well moderated and skew towards scams and vulgarity.
This is all from an Expat's perspective, but there aren't any local language alternatives either for reliable community information.
The government is also terrible at communicating, so it would be very difficult to figure out when laws have changed, and how they are being implemented in practice (very important during Covid).
There are other community based websites here, but they are much less well moderated and skew towards scams and vulgarity.
This is all from an Expat's perspective, but there aren't any local language alternatives either for reliable community information.
Literally impossible to find out about new restaurants. There's no other alternative for finding out about what's happening in my local metropolis. No idea how I'd find out about events. I'm not very proactive about legal updates, that information usually gets propogated through fb or STEP.
There seems a weird bubble or disconnect from the world in such questions, and in comments like this, from this page: "I think so. From what I gather from people who do use it, it's all about marketplace and business related groups. So it's basically Craigslist and yellowpages for cold calling at this point."
I've read so many times on HN that no-one uses FB. Meanwhile, I have friends in many countries around the world I chat with on FB. In India, Russia, SE Asia, Australia, west & east Europe, Africa, latin america etc. The majority of their siblings, parents, children if they have them, are on FB too. So are all their friends. Just about everyone in a lot of countries, seemingly almost all of them, is on there.
I haven't posted anything much in years, maybe once a year. I very rarely look at the news feed. Mostly I'm on FB to chat with friends, and look at their pics if we didn't chat in a while. We exchange pictures, audio, video, PDFs, links etc in the chat. One of these "No-one uses FB" people might look at my wall and think I'm never on FB any more, too, I guess.
I'm not sure if the HN meme of "No-one uses FB" means just "in my circle" and/or "in the USA".. but in the wider world, it does seem like everyone, from 8 to 80, uses it. Everyone with a phone/internet, anyway.
Also, not sure why some people seem to have the idea that FB is just about the news feed and nothing else. As if one is forced to spend all time on FB scrolling the news feed, and if that's bad then FB is useless.
I've read so many times on HN that no-one uses FB. Meanwhile, I have friends in many countries around the world I chat with on FB. In India, Russia, SE Asia, Australia, west & east Europe, Africa, latin america etc. The majority of their siblings, parents, children if they have them, are on FB too. So are all their friends. Just about everyone in a lot of countries, seemingly almost all of them, is on there.
I haven't posted anything much in years, maybe once a year. I very rarely look at the news feed. Mostly I'm on FB to chat with friends, and look at their pics if we didn't chat in a while. We exchange pictures, audio, video, PDFs, links etc in the chat. One of these "No-one uses FB" people might look at my wall and think I'm never on FB any more, too, I guess.
I'm not sure if the HN meme of "No-one uses FB" means just "in my circle" and/or "in the USA".. but in the wider world, it does seem like everyone, from 8 to 80, uses it. Everyone with a phone/internet, anyway.
Also, not sure why some people seem to have the idea that FB is just about the news feed and nothing else. As if one is forced to spend all time on FB scrolling the news feed, and if that's bad then FB is useless.
It's the classic HN echo chamber. It's the same people that say nobody uses Amazon anymore, Google search doesn't work, everybody codes in Clojure now etc. etc.
“We're all dying. That's what defines the condition of living."
But it's going to take a long, long time. Facebook Marketplace draws users of all ages, and there's always the chance of some innovation along the way that might draw younger people in.
I wouldn't bet on Facebook dying any faster than Twitter or Snapchat.
-Winston S. Churchill
But it's going to take a long, long time. Facebook Marketplace draws users of all ages, and there's always the chance of some innovation along the way that might draw younger people in.
I wouldn't bet on Facebook dying any faster than Twitter or Snapchat.
IMHO people around me have been using FB more in the last couple of years, partly due to the pandemic (UK):
1. generally keeping in touch with people they couldn't see due to travel restrictions, including FB Messenger
2. organising events for people with shared interests / hobbies. I've connected with a lot of new people on hiking and music groups recently that I didn't know before
3. advertising and placing orders on micro businesses e.g. micro breweries, food outlets
FB has a platform that can cope with this without any work on the admin side and no cost. The type of things I mentioned in 2/3 often wouldn't exist if the people had to support their own website. Google works for businesses (3) to an extent, but I'm finding listings on fb more common for small events. I'm not sure the other social platforms really cater well for any of these things in my country.
This only works because most people in the target demographic are already on fb
1. generally keeping in touch with people they couldn't see due to travel restrictions, including FB Messenger
2. organising events for people with shared interests / hobbies. I've connected with a lot of new people on hiking and music groups recently that I didn't know before
3. advertising and placing orders on micro businesses e.g. micro breweries, food outlets
FB has a platform that can cope with this without any work on the admin side and no cost. The type of things I mentioned in 2/3 often wouldn't exist if the people had to support their own website. Google works for businesses (3) to an extent, but I'm finding listings on fb more common for small events. I'm not sure the other social platforms really cater well for any of these things in my country.
This only works because most people in the target demographic are already on fb
Here in Brazil, Facebook is a kind of synonym for old people. If you use Facebook people tell you are old. I'm 22, and i don't know anyone from my age group who uses facebook. Youg people are using TikTok and then instagram.
Just look at Facebooks last quarterly results and guidance. When the company itself tells investors it's dying, it probably is.
> Just look at Facebooks last quarterly results and guidance.
https://investor.fb.com/investor-news/press-release-details/...
https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/1326801/0001...
They look really good to me actually
https://investor.fb.com/investor-news/press-release-details/...
https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/1326801/0001...
They look really good to me actually
He specified Facebook the property, not Meta the company.
I have been told by acquaintances within the company that Facebook is considered a legacy product. IMO the corporate rebranding was canny. But I also have little/no faith that their internal bureaucracy will be able to pull off "the metaverse." Their only hope is pulling off more Instagram-style acquisitions.
I have been told by acquaintances within the company that Facebook is considered a legacy product. IMO the corporate rebranding was canny. But I also have little/no faith that their internal bureaucracy will be able to pull off "the metaverse." Their only hope is pulling off more Instagram-style acquisitions.
Their metaverse has to contend with the fact that a bored talking cat's weekend projects keep outdoing anything they come up with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpSEtKnU_vw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpSEtKnU_vw
Facebook is so feature bloated now. I rarely log in anymore because it is just too overwhelming.
I literally have 30 menu options in the side bar. This is not an exaggeration. There are stores, memories, groups, marketplaces, messaging, live, watch. It's insanity.
They've gotten too good at keeping your attention. My mom is addicted to facebook. She can't put it down. She is constantly telling me about news articles and crap I don't care about.
Facebook is a cancer that people should cut out. Instagram isn't as bad (yet).
I literally have 30 menu options in the side bar. This is not an exaggeration. There are stores, memories, groups, marketplaces, messaging, live, watch. It's insanity.
They've gotten too good at keeping your attention. My mom is addicted to facebook. She can't put it down. She is constantly telling me about news articles and crap I don't care about.
Facebook is a cancer that people should cut out. Instagram isn't as bad (yet).
Before Facebook we were on Hi5 and Myspace, before that Usenet, Geocities,...
The time will come for Facebook as well.
The time will come for Facebook as well.
Here in Italy, most of the people I know stopped using it, nowaday it is mostly used by our parents and granparents (yea I'm serious)
We can only hope. I hear AARP has a hot new social network for most of the demographic on Facebook.
I’m actually very excited to see AARP’s social network go live. It’ll be run by a non profit specifically for the cohort that’ll be using it, which better aligns the org’s incentives with that of its users. Yet another effort in clawing back power and audience from Big Tech.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/03/aarp-backed-soci...
https://community.seniorplanet.org/
“The social network was developed by an AARP affiliate, Older Adults Technology Services. OATS started out giving computer classes to older folks in New York City and has expanded its physical footprint over the years. During the pandemic, those classes moved online, and Senior Planet Community grew from that transition.”
“Besides its focus on the 50-plus set, Senior Planet Community stands apart from Facebook in that it’s not commercial. The site has no advertising or membership fees. Unless the cost to run the site grows substantially, that probably won’t present much of a problem. AARP isn’t saying how much it has put into Senior Planet Community, but the organization is famously well-capitalized, with $2.3 billion in net assets and $1.7 billion in revenue in 2020.”
(disclosure: AARP member)
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/03/aarp-backed-soci...
https://community.seniorplanet.org/
“The social network was developed by an AARP affiliate, Older Adults Technology Services. OATS started out giving computer classes to older folks in New York City and has expanded its physical footprint over the years. During the pandemic, those classes moved online, and Senior Planet Community grew from that transition.”
“Besides its focus on the 50-plus set, Senior Planet Community stands apart from Facebook in that it’s not commercial. The site has no advertising or membership fees. Unless the cost to run the site grows substantially, that probably won’t present much of a problem. AARP isn’t saying how much it has put into Senior Planet Community, but the organization is famously well-capitalized, with $2.3 billion in net assets and $1.7 billion in revenue in 2020.”
(disclosure: AARP member)
I'm in my 30s, and wanted to create an account out of curiousity (and maybe because there might be good discussions that I would be interested in). The sign-up page asks for your birthdate, and then says the community is exclusively for people over 50. I have more friends over 50 than under 50 lol.
I'm in my 30's and am in the same boat. A lot of my older colleagues and mentors are over 50 and won't use this service because half their network is excluded.
The most toxic people on Nextdoor and Facebook are over 60, are just a little bit racist as old people are, and haven't learned the social norms of internet use. Moderation is going to be a very expensive exercise for them if they don't want the site to turn full neo-nazi like Parler did seemingly overnight.
The most toxic people on Nextdoor and Facebook are over 60, are just a little bit racist as old people are, and haven't learned the social norms of internet use. Moderation is going to be a very expensive exercise for them if they don't want the site to turn full neo-nazi like Parler did seemingly overnight.
Yes, but Facebook marketplace is lit.
Facebook marketplace is terrible. It makes you look at just as many scams and ads as legitimate ads for what you need.
you just gotta get the filters right
Yes and facebook will sustain itself by providing these other “jobs to be done”. Connecting people to sell your stuff. Connecting people to date. Connecting people to find a good babysitter/dogsitter in the neighborhood. And, its the only way to reach your parents. Not going anywhere (and i hate this)
In our rural area FB marketplace is the place to buy things. They certainly have the network effect. However, I cannot think of a single market that is more user hostile. Functional searches are impossible, as it feeds you what it thinks you want.
That's another thing Instagram might replace though.
It really feels Instagram is the new Facebook, which is great for me, because there is no expectation to be on Instagram within my circles so I can avoid social media, and pseudonymously follow the couple of Insta accounts I do like.
It really feels Instagram is the new Facebook, which is great for me, because there is no expectation to be on Instagram within my circles so I can avoid social media, and pseudonymously follow the couple of Insta accounts I do like.
I would guess that monetizing marketplace to a level that moves the needle on Meta's earning will be nearly impossible. I would be very surprised if it ever goes anywhere. I'm surprised it exists at all tbh.
It is mostly all stolo.
First they killed messaging without the spying app. mbasic is no more.
Then they killed the editbox by an upgrade which didn't work. you cannot post sentences anymore, just word's.
yes, they killed it. Messenger on purpose, other core features by incompetence.
yes, they killed it. Messenger on purpose, other core features by incompetence.
Has anyone else noticed Facebook getting more aggressive in its attempts to get you back on the platform? Just this morning, I actually received an SMS about one of my old uni professors sharing a link. And that's on top of more popup notifications, emails, etc.
I started using it around 2009ish and stopped using it years ago, only logging like once or twice a year. One reason was nobody was posting anything interesting anymore, that has been going on for over 5 years. A bit hard to generalize because near the end my feed was dominated by 1-2 very active people and I got all their interactions with other people, so only my greater bubble was being silent, not everyone everyone.
Hard to tell and you'll probably get a skewed picture here, of people who probably were early adopters (pre 2010) and have since moved on (unless it's big in their family).
Hard to tell and you'll probably get a skewed picture here, of people who probably were early adopters (pre 2010) and have since moved on (unless it's big in their family).
More like stagnation, I think pretty much everybody in the world has either decided to use or not use Facebook, there is nowhere for growth since it doesn't appeal to young people and their brand is pretty toxic.
I am willing to bet they have an increasing number of dead accounts. The utility just isn’t there anymore. I see more old people using WhatsApp than Facebook.
Or single purpose accounts that laid dormant. My anonymous marketplace-only account was banned from logging into Facebook after a few months of activity for being what they identified as a "bot account".
They say I can send them photographs of my license and a selfie to unlock it, ostensibly so they can use those for Clearview AI to build a profile. I've declined.
They say I can send them photographs of my license and a selfie to unlock it, ostensibly so they can use those for Clearview AI to build a profile. I've declined.
I noticed a huge decline in friends posting in late 2021. I got a new phone and didn't install the app. I have to go on FB every once in a while because an older app I run has a facebook page, and people sometimes contact me through that. But I just respond to send me an email.
When I do look at my feed, much like you, it's no longer my friends posting.
The rate of decline could be as strong as facebook's rate of growth back in the day. The less people are engaged, the less people will come back, which leads to a cycle.
When I do look at my feed, much like you, it's no longer my friends posting.
The rate of decline could be as strong as facebook's rate of growth back in the day. The less people are engaged, the less people will come back, which leads to a cycle.
Somebody else already mentioned Brazil but I feel like in the rest of Latin America, alas, it's going strong. Lots of pages and groups still working with lots of engagement.
Here in Mexico everyone is on Facebook. But they don't use it in the classic way, posting vacation photos and family updates. Instead it's a way to find out the hours and location of a restaurant, what night your favorite band is playing, what barrio is having a fiesta this weekend, etc. Most businesses have a Facebook page but no web site.
SEAsia too. And not just for typical social; many businesses dont have websites, just a FB page. A lot of online shopping via messenger and paid in cash on delivery, because so many people dont have credit cards.
In many parts of SEAsia FB is synonymous with internet, because FB heavily subsidizes data plans.
I find it funny that Facebook is now dying because it's considered "too mature" by the youth because back in the day the whole reason why Facebook got so popular was because it was "more mature" than the pre-teen infested social media platforms that preceded it.
I wonder if there is going to be a shift from global to local too. That would be fun to witness. Facebook killed all our national social media platforms the same way it killed myspace in the US.
I wonder if there is going to be a shift from global to local too. That would be fun to witness. Facebook killed all our national social media platforms the same way it killed myspace in the US.
I think nope. Where do you live, the US? In some Asian and African countries, Facebook is indeed popular. They will still share everything there, and chat with each other. Maybe you can say Facebook is dying in the US when there're twitter, IG, WhatsApp. But global, I think Facebook, the app itself, is still the largest social media in thr worly and still will be for a very long time unless Meta wants to shut it down on Africa and Asia
I get a feeling that the news feed was never really what social people wanted. And when they included stories, there was even less reason to post to the news feed.
I think the most social value of Facebook is in groups. There are some amazing groups where people self-organize, share knowledge and generally help each other.
The public FB is mostly about media companies sharing stuff, but groups is where people are actually involved and that part is very much alive.
I think the most social value of Facebook is in groups. There are some amazing groups where people self-organize, share knowledge and generally help each other.
The public FB is mostly about media companies sharing stuff, but groups is where people are actually involved and that part is very much alive.
FB Groups - that's mostly what I go to FB for. For some kinds of communities it's better than subreddits.
Dont worry, by moving into VR they are totally going to turn the ship around.
About which principal axis?
Are you looking for HN anecdotal sampling or larger data sets? How would you go about getting actual statistically significant data sets?
Just HN. I was looking for opinions from people who are likely attuned to the industry. I guess I wanted to know what the 'word on the street" (god I hate that phrase) was about Facebook.
A good chunk of the board game industry is on Facebook (and if not there, then on Twitter), across a handful of board game promotional or design discussion groups. Facebook is nice in that if any of those people I'm friends with post in one of those groups it'll notify me and I can pop in and comment and maintain my network / see what they're up to that way, and I can share what I'm working on and see what people are interested in it.
Outside of that, it mostly seems to be another receptacle for hot takes nowadays, which doesn't really interest me (why I'm barely on Twitter). When I want to discuss current events I'll go to a subreddit and discuss it more or less anonymously, I'd rather not risk annoying or pissing off (or myself becoming pissed off at) people in my Facebook friends list.
Outside of that, it mostly seems to be another receptacle for hot takes nowadays, which doesn't really interest me (why I'm barely on Twitter). When I want to discuss current events I'll go to a subreddit and discuss it more or less anonymously, I'd rather not risk annoying or pissing off (or myself becoming pissed off at) people in my Facebook friends list.
Yes, it is, but it will be a long and painful one, as they are the biggest social network, by far. Developers and other platforms are slowly decoupling from Facebook (FB Login, Ads, etc) and it's impacting their business. As they lose users, and engagement, they will lose ad dollars. This will cause them to make short term decisions to make up for the loss, which may hurt them in the long run.
The saving grace is if they somehow deliver on their Metaverse promise. Zuck knew FB was dying before everyone else, hence the full on pivot. We'll see if they can reinvent themselves to become the leader in Web3, which could ultimately save the company. As it stands today, with war waging on multiple fronts, regulation, user sentiment, competition, emerging trends and so on, they are dying.
The saving grace is if they somehow deliver on their Metaverse promise. Zuck knew FB was dying before everyone else, hence the full on pivot. We'll see if they can reinvent themselves to become the leader in Web3, which could ultimately save the company. As it stands today, with war waging on multiple fronts, regulation, user sentiment, competition, emerging trends and so on, they are dying.
Thing is people I was friends 10 years ago I'm not now... Fb biggest mistake was insistence connecting only with people you know. Of course I don't wanna see what timmy from English class in hs is doing now and even if I see anything I'm not respond after 10 years of silence.. then Facebook made sure your every activity was broadcasted to entire network and having two accounts is highly discouraged. So once entire 4 generations were there I couldn't even like a meme without thinking how it's gonna look to granddad. Now timeline became even more garbage ads and ads.... I truly think idea of timeline is more fundamental whether it's newsfeed, Twitter, YouTub... It's rewarding to keep scrolling and keep finding great stuff...
Its really hard as an individual to judge how facebook is doing, because if you ask 10 people you will get 10 different answers based off what the facebook algorithm has decided to show them.
For some people it is a wasteland of advertisements because their peers have moved on.
For some people it is a wasteland of advertisements because their peers have moved on.
Facebook is full of MLM shit and found dogs.
well - my feed is literally dying. i've got an "oops, something went wrong" error message (instead of the feed) for months, the console is full of errors. only news i get are from notifications.
I don't know. I'm using FB only for sharing links to my portfolio page. I don't consume anything on FB over 3 yeas. RSS give me much more control over my daily feed and I'm ok with that.
Seems like it. Now they are trying to switch to the vr/ar stuff and monetize it heavily, possibly by some crypto scheme. Risky move, probably isn’t gonna pan up.
It's in decline, but there are a couple of local groups on it that I find useful, and it's convenient for sharing pictures with extended family. Some of our younger extended family members only have an FB account to occasionally stay in touch with older relatives but don't use it otherwise.
But the local groups might work better as WhatsApp groups, so it's mostly inertia.
But the local groups might work better as WhatsApp groups, so it's mostly inertia.
I'm 29 and I only use my Facebook as a log-in tool for one or two sites. I left a message on my FB page saying that I'm no longer going to be active there. This was two years ago. My older sister has moved to Instagram. I myself prefer Discord.
If I'm representative of younger people—and I have no idea if that's the case—Facebook proper is in deep trouble.
If I'm representative of younger people—and I have no idea if that's the case—Facebook proper is in deep trouble.
Incidentally, using Instagram still gives money and stats to the same parent company - Meta.
So what's the difference? It's still lining Mark Zuckerfuck The Soulless' pockets with gold.
So what's the difference? It's still lining Mark Zuckerfuck The Soulless' pockets with gold.
I get that, but I'm not the one using Instagram. It's my older sister.
I myself don't use Instagram, and I'm meaning to talk to her about it.
I myself don't use Instagram, and I'm meaning to talk to her about it.
People in Israel, Brasil, Colombia, use it very regularly as it is a means of commerce and basically the only way to find apartments or do so many essential activities. Especially in Israel. I notice that Colombians and Brazilians use Instagram more to make online stores, and home delivery for all kinds of stuff from clothing to beauty products
It won't die like myspace but it is long past it's peak. To me, dead means it is no longer a platform where advertising on it has good ROI. I can't imagine it being in the less than 10M in the US or 100M global daily use count in the next decade, even with a decline I think it can keep up much more addicts coming back to it.
Yes. The question is now: Is Instagram dying?
Meta (pun intended) answer: Everything is dying, slowly or fast, from the moment of inception. Instagram included.
But observing my surrounding, it seem that Insta is the sh*t currently, with money, influencers and generally nice pictures, while facebook is for parents to post pictures of their kids.
But observing my surrounding, it seem that Insta is the sh*t currently, with money, influencers and generally nice pictures, while facebook is for parents to post pictures of their kids.
And the answer to that question is also yes
[deleted]
Facebook is king for niche groups and I just don't know why. I'd love to give it up but I honestly don't know a better way to interact with these micro groups i've grown to love. P.S the answer is most definitely not reddit
I deleted my Facebook for the exact reason you describe. it was a graveyard and Facebook's didn't even have enough content it was recycling content for days....I only wanted it for groups and those were getting to be dead too...
They will die for sure when they show 99% ads and 1% of the post is cringe. Why should they show me feed that I never care? And, it seems my profile is full of some motivational, ostentatious people which I really don't like
I expect to stay connected periodically on FB to hear about deaths and funerals. For the generation that embraced it, communicating the fact of death seems mostly done over FB.
It died when it became non-exclusive to students and let everyone in. Sure they got a broader market, but at this point it is 99% ads in my feed. Why would anyone want that?
If you're saying it died before it went to 25% of the world's population as a userbase, then you are using a definition of "death" that no one else is using.
I would define it as turning from something loved by a smaller number of people into something most of the world hates a little.
The latter made it a lot of money.
Money is a lagging indicator. The love gave it a lot of value early and that value converted to money several years later. Network effects means it takes a lot of time to switch to a new product, but if they do, it will happen quickly and seemingly suddenly.
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Yes, for a good long time, probably 5 years at least. All of my activity has been on Instagram for ~6 years, and there's basically nothing on FB except marketplace
I've been using Facebook more lately but not as a social network. I've bought and sold a few items on Facebook marketplace. I also now belong to a few obscure technology groups that only exist on Facebook and I have a Quest VR headset.
I also use it to see which relatives are now Qanon or Qanon-adacent.
I also use it to see which relatives are now Qanon or Qanon-adacent.
>I also use it to see which relatives are now Qanon or Qanon-adacent.
I kept my parents off it because I know they would succumb.
I kept my parents off it because I know they would succumb.
Facebook messenger still being used a lot but I don't see a lot of people browsing their timeline anymore. Specialised groups get some attention though.
I still have an account, but use it infrequently. Its really just life support for friendships and connections which have been in a vegetative state for years.
I think so, too. Increasingly, work communication comes from Twitter, Linkedin, and communities on Reddit and IH
Facebook died long ago. Perhaps was really alive only for few years. What we see are the leftovers…
If they are it'll be a long slow death, they still make a lot of money.
I use it for messaging, events and birthday updates.
it already is dead, new generations are on tiktok, so facebook userbase doesn't get renewed, hence it'll die by demography
It’s about time.
And taking down the world with them.
not in the slightest. it's a portal to the web for a very large amount of people.
In Bangladesh it's booming
Yes - slowly, but surely!
God, I hope so.
Yes
Speaking as a creative working with clients up and down the S&P500 in the last years there was a feeling that Facebook got more and more restrictive with creative advertising. In the beginning you could integrate your own apps and interact with pretty much the whole Facebook api you had creative freedom and you could track the effectiveness yourself. After Burger Kings "Sacrifice a friend for a whopper campaign" [0] everything changed. Year after year it got more restrictive even now in their newer offerings you are more and more restricted (Not more than 20% text in ads, no static animations in sparkAR filters the list goes on and on.) AND they are basically just asset flips from other social media or ad networks. Carousel Ads, Stories, SparkAR everything is already there but better from other providers creatives don't like to work on Facebook ads anymore and media companies don't like that they can't sell more adaptions because Facebook Ads are just resells.
There was a lot of hype about the metaverse because everyone hoped that there will be creative freedom again but when talking to their agency representatives it looks like it's even more restrictive. At the moment Facebook is basically the garbage dump for assets you already created for other networks, there is no creative freedom and their AR offerings are lacking behind snap and TikTok. In the 2000s and 2010s you sold whole campaigns because of Facebook, now Facebook Ads are just a chart you spend 1 second in a presentation. I believe it's dying and it can't come soon enough for the creative industry. For us, Facebook is now a waste of time and energy.
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq_SbjxNvc8
There was a lot of hype about the metaverse because everyone hoped that there will be creative freedom again but when talking to their agency representatives it looks like it's even more restrictive. At the moment Facebook is basically the garbage dump for assets you already created for other networks, there is no creative freedom and their AR offerings are lacking behind snap and TikTok. In the 2000s and 2010s you sold whole campaigns because of Facebook, now Facebook Ads are just a chart you spend 1 second in a presentation. I believe it's dying and it can't come soon enough for the creative industry. For us, Facebook is now a waste of time and energy.
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq_SbjxNvc8
Sorry to be blunt, advertisers on Facebook have been a major contributor to its decline, driving out content that people wanted to see, masquerading as real people, etc.
Creative advertising like the Burger King ad from the post above are ads people want to interact with because they are fun or if you are really good get people to think. Stuff you would share on your own instead of getting it artificially pushed into your feed. The kind of ads you describe are called "prokbelly ads" because you would find them on the flyers of your favorite supermarket. No creative wants to touch them with a poking stick.
All advertising is bad faith communication. Full stop. There is no justification otherwise. In fact, the more creative advertising is, the more bad faith and exploitative it becomes.
You tell yourself that because you're making money from it.
No, it's because I know there can be different versions of something. There can be good movies, there can be shit movies. There can be good apps, there can be shit apps. The same goes for advertising pretending that it doesn't is hybris.
Are there good con artists and bad con artists? Or is the entire profession bad? Some things don’t benefit society as a whole, just the in-group engaging in it.
Yes, there are good and bad con artists. Do you believe woman like Joan of Arc or similar stories are no con artists? You probably are some sort of con artist yourself without you even recognizing it but I get it ignorance really is bliss and the world is so much easier to understand when everything is just black and white.
Dear diary! Today on HN, some advertising person compared advertising persons to Joan of Arc, and by the way, everyone's a con artist anyway so why worry?
There are nuances, but there is also bullshitting yourself.
There are nuances, but there is also bullshitting yourself.
Hate to break it to you, but there really are different qualities in ads. The pure crap at the bottom of news articles (which take you to articles that are like 100 clicks) with headlines like "100s of unsold SUVs waiting to be purchased for pennies on the dollar" are both total lies, totally annoying and get you reaching for the ad block.
And there are original creatives (now maybe more on instagram) which are relatively targeted, explain product, good call to action. I click through a few business SAAS type pitches and its been interesting.
I for one appreciate that someone from the "Dark side" gives their view and relatively unique perspective. It's MUCH nicer to hear from them then the same old tired crap about ads are bad. I would ban all billboards and hate ads, but another perspective here is nice to hear. I also know someone in the measurement space, and the reality is folks IN the space are paying very VERY close attention to where users are, who they are, what is working.
Anyways, thanks throwmeriver1 - was nice to hear from the marketing side. Youtube shorts seems to be a dumping ground for tiktok stuff as well - though with youtube scale I could see that changing.
And there are original creatives (now maybe more on instagram) which are relatively targeted, explain product, good call to action. I click through a few business SAAS type pitches and its been interesting.
I for one appreciate that someone from the "Dark side" gives their view and relatively unique perspective. It's MUCH nicer to hear from them then the same old tired crap about ads are bad. I would ban all billboards and hate ads, but another perspective here is nice to hear. I also know someone in the measurement space, and the reality is folks IN the space are paying very VERY close attention to where users are, who they are, what is working.
Anyways, thanks throwmeriver1 - was nice to hear from the marketing side. Youtube shorts seems to be a dumping ground for tiktok stuff as well - though with youtube scale I could see that changing.
Where did I compare myself to Joan of Arc? He said that there are probably only bad con artists and I told him with an example that there are not. Are you so full of bias and prejudice that you lost the ability for reading comprehension? The funniest thing is we know each other IRL Andreas and I would have expected more but alas. That's why you can't tell people in OSS and in CCC circles what you are really doing... can be the most intelligent people around as soon as they hear advertising they tilt.
Okay, so I guess you were intentionally running too far with the question you were asked as a kind of sarcasm. But anyway.
I don't know, but I have two things to say. First, did you consider that it isn't everybody else who is wrong? Somehow, even some people from the advertising industry think it's pretty rotten (Frédéric Beigbeder wrote a book about it). Second, it's healthy to accept why you do what you do. I do work that is morally not great, not terrible, and I'd rather accept that than tell myself it's 100% fine (and I won't work on everything). I like dealing with code, and I like getting paid for it, and I will do things as long as they aren't very (according to my arbitrary definitions) unethical. If you said I like to get paid to come up with wild ideas, fine. Naughty but honest is something that most people can accept. If you are the person that I think you are, that is how you talked about it in person, actually.
I don't know, but I have two things to say. First, did you consider that it isn't everybody else who is wrong? Somehow, even some people from the advertising industry think it's pretty rotten (Frédéric Beigbeder wrote a book about it). Second, it's healthy to accept why you do what you do. I do work that is morally not great, not terrible, and I'd rather accept that than tell myself it's 100% fine (and I won't work on everything). I like dealing with code, and I like getting paid for it, and I will do things as long as they aren't very (according to my arbitrary definitions) unethical. If you said I like to get paid to come up with wild ideas, fine. Naughty but honest is something that most people can accept. If you are the person that I think you are, that is how you talked about it in person, actually.
Facebook groups is pretty good. Gotta join the right group.
If your asian there was the whole subtle Asian thing a couple years back that generated tons of sub groups like subtle Asian rock climbing.
Don't have to be asian too join and I'm positive there's groups outside of the whole subtle Asian thing.
If your asian there was the whole subtle Asian thing a couple years back that generated tons of sub groups like subtle Asian rock climbing.
Don't have to be asian too join and I'm positive there's groups outside of the whole subtle Asian thing.
No, but Instagram is dominating.
Probably. But Facebook doesn't care. They have Instagram, WhatsApp and soon the metaverse. They have enough pans on the fire to keep cooking. I left it long ago too. But WhatsApp is harder to do without. I think their company is doing fine and they seem to diversify very well.
The only boat that they really seem to have missed is the community that tiktok serves. But it seems to offer the lowest standard of viral memes and stupid joke videos.. I'm not on tiktok but every time someone sends me a video I really hate, it has their logo on it. I've literally never seen anything that came across my WhatsApp with that logo that was worth watching. So I'm definitely not tempted to try. For some reason it really rubs me the wrong way. It seems to embody everything I hated about what Facebook became. If I were leading Facebook I'd not want to double down on that direction either.
For what it's worth, when I was on Facebook I also hated people (re)sharing memes and videos. I used it to see what my friends were up to in their lives but the amount of crap became too high. Too many people sharing memes, 'funny' videos, petitions or trying to sell/promote stuff. I think it's the algorithms egging them on. Trying to get as many likes and followers as they can. Eventually people got disillusioned with that rat race on Facebook, and I think the same will happen to the tiktok crowd.
But maybe social media is just not for me. The more algorithms involved, the worse it seems to get at showing me what I want to see. I have very little patience for wading through a timeline of stuff I'm not interested in trying to find the one bit of worthwhile information. WhatsApp has pretty much taken over that function for me. Because it doesn't do any prioritising or inserting ads or content it thinks I will like, it just passes messages like it should do. Just like Facebook used to do before it went down the toilet. Most of my real friends I now have in WhatsApp groups.
But of course that's also owned by Facebook.. So yes I think Facebook the company (now meta) will be fine. Facebook the service not. I think the metaverse is a risky bet but potentially very rewarding.
The only boat that they really seem to have missed is the community that tiktok serves. But it seems to offer the lowest standard of viral memes and stupid joke videos.. I'm not on tiktok but every time someone sends me a video I really hate, it has their logo on it. I've literally never seen anything that came across my WhatsApp with that logo that was worth watching. So I'm definitely not tempted to try. For some reason it really rubs me the wrong way. It seems to embody everything I hated about what Facebook became. If I were leading Facebook I'd not want to double down on that direction either.
For what it's worth, when I was on Facebook I also hated people (re)sharing memes and videos. I used it to see what my friends were up to in their lives but the amount of crap became too high. Too many people sharing memes, 'funny' videos, petitions or trying to sell/promote stuff. I think it's the algorithms egging them on. Trying to get as many likes and followers as they can. Eventually people got disillusioned with that rat race on Facebook, and I think the same will happen to the tiktok crowd.
But maybe social media is just not for me. The more algorithms involved, the worse it seems to get at showing me what I want to see. I have very little patience for wading through a timeline of stuff I'm not interested in trying to find the one bit of worthwhile information. WhatsApp has pretty much taken over that function for me. Because it doesn't do any prioritising or inserting ads or content it thinks I will like, it just passes messages like it should do. Just like Facebook used to do before it went down the toilet. Most of my real friends I now have in WhatsApp groups.
But of course that's also owned by Facebook.. So yes I think Facebook the company (now meta) will be fine. Facebook the service not. I think the metaverse is a risky bet but potentially very rewarding.
Isn't Instagram suffering from the same problem, just lagging?
Teens, tweens, and younger twentysomethings already seem to regard Instagram as something for "old" people.
My main social circle heavily uses Instagram, but its composed of late-20s to early-40s people, which does seem to be the prime Instagram demographic right now.
Instagram kinda feels like the original Facebook as it was back in the late 2000s to early 2010s.
Teens, tweens, and younger twentysomethings already seem to regard Instagram as something for "old" people.
My main social circle heavily uses Instagram, but its composed of late-20s to early-40s people, which does seem to be the prime Instagram demographic right now.
Instagram kinda feels like the original Facebook as it was back in the late 2000s to early 2010s.
> Teens, tweens, and younger twentysomethings already seem to regard Instagram as something for "old" people.
Not really. I'm in a pretty diverse sport and the high schoolers I'm familiar with are still using Instagram too.
Not really. I'm in a pretty diverse sport and the high schoolers I'm familiar with are still using Instagram too.
They definitely care!
Metaverse is.. highly speculative
> and soon the metaverse
That assumes Meta's plans for the metaverse ever pay off, and in my humble opinion, that's less than certain.
That assumes Meta's plans for the metaverse ever pay off, and in my humble opinion, that's less than certain.
I think it will do well. I really like VR and I see the added value. It really offers something new.
I'm not sure if I trust Facebook with making it something worth using for me. They seem focused on becoming the middle man for selling content like Apple with their app store. Which sounds good. I can get on board with that.
But I think their mindset will draw them back into datamining, 'engagement' and ads anyway. They're just employing too many people that are really good at it.. It's hard to turn the corporate equivalent of an aircraft carrier around. But I hope I'm wrong.
However when it becomes a success, competitors will come up with a different focus. They will have demonstrated the added value and others will jump in. Either way it's going to be good for VR.
I think they really have something with this. And it's a ballsy move going all-in on it. They regained some of my respect for it.
I'm not sure if I trust Facebook with making it something worth using for me. They seem focused on becoming the middle man for selling content like Apple with their app store. Which sounds good. I can get on board with that.
But I think their mindset will draw them back into datamining, 'engagement' and ads anyway. They're just employing too many people that are really good at it.. It's hard to turn the corporate equivalent of an aircraft carrier around. But I hope I'm wrong.
However when it becomes a success, competitors will come up with a different focus. They will have demonstrated the added value and others will jump in. Either way it's going to be good for VR.
I think they really have something with this. And it's a ballsy move going all-in on it. They regained some of my respect for it.
I think VR will definitely take off as a gaming medium. I don't think it's going to take off as a Metaverse for social media. From what I can gather, most people don't want to work and live with an Oculus Rift headset on most of the day.
Heck, a lot of people couldn't stand being restricted to Zoom and other internet interaction during lockdown (admittedly I didn't mind as most of my social life was online anyway prior to the lockdown.) Imagine trying to make all of that happen via VR headsets instead of tablets and screens.
Heck, a lot of people couldn't stand being restricted to Zoom and other internet interaction during lockdown (admittedly I didn't mind as most of my social life was online anyway prior to the lockdown.) Imagine trying to make all of that happen via VR headsets instead of tablets and screens.