Ask HN: How do I find my “purpose”?
238 comments
Start one level up: why do you want or need a "purpose"?
Purpose/calling is meaningless IMHO. I opted for "pushing my comfort zone". Something I learned from a woman I was dating when I was 20 (she was 9 years older and entering the Peace Corp). Now rapidly reaching the other side of 50, I seek to be content and without dissonance in my day-to-day life. I have routines I enjoy, no bucket list, and time to let my mind wander to whatever tickles my fancy.
Instead, expand your horizons as much as possible. Read. Study. Try new things. They don't have to be expensive things, this isn't about privilege. Anyone can try drawing, or writing music, or reading philosphy, or long distance running, or volunteering, or sexual experimentation, ... things that push your comfort zone and force you to see the world a new way. If you have the means, travel to foreign countries and get lost, skydive, surf, scuba dive, play in a band, take a dance class, take any class at a college that seems interesting, take a Toastmasters class and give speeches, change jobs.
The more you bend yourself (without breaking) the more you will learn about what gives your life contour.
You might never find purpose, but hopefully you will find peace and delivery from the restlessness you have expressed.
Purpose/calling is meaningless IMHO. I opted for "pushing my comfort zone". Something I learned from a woman I was dating when I was 20 (she was 9 years older and entering the Peace Corp). Now rapidly reaching the other side of 50, I seek to be content and without dissonance in my day-to-day life. I have routines I enjoy, no bucket list, and time to let my mind wander to whatever tickles my fancy.
Instead, expand your horizons as much as possible. Read. Study. Try new things. They don't have to be expensive things, this isn't about privilege. Anyone can try drawing, or writing music, or reading philosphy, or long distance running, or volunteering, or sexual experimentation, ... things that push your comfort zone and force you to see the world a new way. If you have the means, travel to foreign countries and get lost, skydive, surf, scuba dive, play in a band, take a dance class, take any class at a college that seems interesting, take a Toastmasters class and give speeches, change jobs.
The more you bend yourself (without breaking) the more you will learn about what gives your life contour.
You might never find purpose, but hopefully you will find peace and delivery from the restlessness you have expressed.
He answers your first question in the first paragraph:
> There are plenty of studies that show that having a "purpose" and working after it is correlated with higher happiness or well being.
I'm not denying that what you mention can bring happiness, but you can do all that and still benefit from having "a purpose".
Your answer can be helpful to some but it's the same as this StackOverflow meme of "How do I do A in B? Do C instead".
> There are plenty of studies that show that having a "purpose" and working after it is correlated with higher happiness or well being.
I'm not denying that what you mention can bring happiness, but you can do all that and still benefit from having "a purpose".
Your answer can be helpful to some but it's the same as this StackOverflow meme of "How do I do A in B? Do C instead".
Shouldn't you be posing the same question to yourself though? Why do you want or need to push your comfort zone?
Ah, excellent question!
Words are funny things, they have different meanings, and in the case of words with such broad opportunity it is my responsibility to clarify myself. That's why philosophy books always start out defining terms.
I put "purpose" and "calling" (and "mission") into a category of fixed, one-dimensional, outcomes. "My calling is thing X, that is all I do."
Same thing with "meaning". It is too big to be meaningful, ironically.
For me, what gives life value is experiencing peace of mind and detachment from suffering: it is what it is, along with novelty so that it doesn't get boring.
There is no "meaining" in there, no "purpose", no "calling", in this world-view.
I'm trying to steer OP away from a certain fixity, which in my experience (both in myself and in observing others, and in reading) only leads to more anxiety.
Words are funny things, they have different meanings, and in the case of words with such broad opportunity it is my responsibility to clarify myself. That's why philosophy books always start out defining terms.
I put "purpose" and "calling" (and "mission") into a category of fixed, one-dimensional, outcomes. "My calling is thing X, that is all I do."
Same thing with "meaning". It is too big to be meaningful, ironically.
For me, what gives life value is experiencing peace of mind and detachment from suffering: it is what it is, along with novelty so that it doesn't get boring.
There is no "meaining" in there, no "purpose", no "calling", in this world-view.
I'm trying to steer OP away from a certain fixity, which in my experience (both in myself and in observing others, and in reading) only leads to more anxiety.
Interesting thoughts, thanks for the reply! I am very much in agreement with you on some of these points. I think you're absolutely right that people can think in a way that is too existentially broad and disconnected from concrete reality in a way that actually magnifies their suffering, rather than reducing it.
That said, I think "value" can be just as broad/general and, in some uses, might actually be being used as synonymous with "purpose." I don't think people generally have in mind the Aristotelian "final cause" (the end, that for the sake of which a thing is done) when they use the word "purpose". OP may have been, I don't know.
The way I think about it — and I think what most have in mind when they ask such questions, although, not necessarily OP, I acknowledge — is a feeling that you are using your time in a way that is worthwhile. Or, perhaps, in psycho-physiological terms, experiencing a signaling that says "there aren't more important things you I could be occupying myself with" (not at every moment, but generally).
Jordan Peterson was once asked about meaning and the way he articulated it gave me a lot of food for thought. He said: "To me, meaning is implication for action for reorganization of the perceptual frames that frame action." I think this is very useful and sort of responds to some of your points/concerns in that it anchors the question of meaning in action.
That said, I think "value" can be just as broad/general and, in some uses, might actually be being used as synonymous with "purpose." I don't think people generally have in mind the Aristotelian "final cause" (the end, that for the sake of which a thing is done) when they use the word "purpose". OP may have been, I don't know.
The way I think about it — and I think what most have in mind when they ask such questions, although, not necessarily OP, I acknowledge — is a feeling that you are using your time in a way that is worthwhile. Or, perhaps, in psycho-physiological terms, experiencing a signaling that says "there aren't more important things you I could be occupying myself with" (not at every moment, but generally).
Jordan Peterson was once asked about meaning and the way he articulated it gave me a lot of food for thought. He said: "To me, meaning is implication for action for reorganization of the perceptual frames that frame action." I think this is very useful and sort of responds to some of your points/concerns in that it anchors the question of meaning in action.
Careful there, no reason to risk triggering an existential crisis on otherwise happy folks :P
I would welcome it! :P
As an aside: I'm glad I've spent years getting used to roller-coasters, because I've found aging health issues are an entirely new comfort zone challenge that I don't have control over. I've had some "prep" so to speak, but they are coming and I have to be ready to just go with the new body changes, whatever they may be.
As an aside: I'm glad I've spent years getting used to roller-coasters, because I've found aging health issues are an entirely new comfort zone challenge that I don't have control over. I've had some "prep" so to speak, but they are coming and I have to be ready to just go with the new body changes, whatever they may be.
Boredom is real. You can always decide you’ve pushed enough and slow down. But if you get lazy and lounge around for too long, you may forget how to get off your ass and do something.
“Get busy living or get busy dying.” - Ellis Boyd “Red” Redding (played by Morgan Freeman in The Shawshank Redemption)
“Get busy living or get busy dying.” - Ellis Boyd “Red” Redding (played by Morgan Freeman in The Shawshank Redemption)
> But if you get lazy and lounge around for too long, you may forget how to get off your ass and do something.
I've had this conversation with my own therapist, and other therapists that I know over the years. It is a form of anxiety: "oh, no, I'll forget to be productive."
According to them, it is VERY common in engineers, apparently. Perhaps because of technology's rapid pace? Personally, I was able to control this little demon of a thought by looking at my entire life OUTSIDE of work, and how I simply can't stop learning: I do it constantly, I'm always picking up new things to try when I'm bored, and I revisit the same things at larger epicycles (know how many times I've picked up a big C++ project since the 90's, just for fun?)
I've had this conversation with my own therapist, and other therapists that I know over the years. It is a form of anxiety: "oh, no, I'll forget to be productive."
According to them, it is VERY common in engineers, apparently. Perhaps because of technology's rapid pace? Personally, I was able to control this little demon of a thought by looking at my entire life OUTSIDE of work, and how I simply can't stop learning: I do it constantly, I'm always picking up new things to try when I'm bored, and I revisit the same things at larger epicycles (know how many times I've picked up a big C++ project since the 90's, just for fun?)
It's fun
thanks for sharing!
I take issue with traditional advice on the subject-- it's all self-centered. Finding MY purpose. MY life meaning. MY values. The path to getting there involves MY consumption of <drugs>, acquisition of wealth, influence, or other forms of self-indulgence. Everything is about MY happiness.
Consider that perhaps you don't find your "calling." Instead, it finds you.
The only "trick" here is that you have to be reachable by putting yourself out there, and keeping in mind that you're fishing, not hunting. Coming back empty-handed is not a sign of failure, it's one round in a process of elimination.
Volunteer work is a good start, missionary work is even better. Or pick up a holiday shift in retail or a temp job. Help out at homeless outreach, animal control and domestic violence centers. Attend a service at a church, a temple and a mosque. Go on a ride-along with the local cops. Visit your national parks and memorials.
Most of this is an exercise in forced association with people and situations you'd otherwise overlook-- you'll hang out with the poor, the wealthy, the criminal, the pious, and everything in-between enough to at least get a sense for the breadth of the struggles of the human condition-- and present you with a buffet of experiences broad enough to encounter a perspective that resonates with you.
My pet theory is that triumph over struggle is the real driver of happiness and the only universal purpose any of us have. Once people transcend the struggle, there is nothing left for them to overcome, and they never again feel any sense of satisfaction.
ESID, and not everyone is meant for servitude, but it works for me. Best of luck to you.
Consider that perhaps you don't find your "calling." Instead, it finds you.
The only "trick" here is that you have to be reachable by putting yourself out there, and keeping in mind that you're fishing, not hunting. Coming back empty-handed is not a sign of failure, it's one round in a process of elimination.
Volunteer work is a good start, missionary work is even better. Or pick up a holiday shift in retail or a temp job. Help out at homeless outreach, animal control and domestic violence centers. Attend a service at a church, a temple and a mosque. Go on a ride-along with the local cops. Visit your national parks and memorials.
Most of this is an exercise in forced association with people and situations you'd otherwise overlook-- you'll hang out with the poor, the wealthy, the criminal, the pious, and everything in-between enough to at least get a sense for the breadth of the struggles of the human condition-- and present you with a buffet of experiences broad enough to encounter a perspective that resonates with you.
My pet theory is that triumph over struggle is the real driver of happiness and the only universal purpose any of us have. Once people transcend the struggle, there is nothing left for them to overcome, and they never again feel any sense of satisfaction.
ESID, and not everyone is meant for servitude, but it works for me. Best of luck to you.
> Volunteer work is a good start, missionary work is even better.
I couldn’t disagree more with regard to missionary work.
Having someone tell me why their sky friend needs to be in my life is outright offensive. I get a fair few US 20-25 year olds trying this crap out at my home in Auckland, New Zealand.
I couldn’t disagree more with regard to missionary work.
Having someone tell me why their sky friend needs to be in my life is outright offensive. I get a fair few US 20-25 year olds trying this crap out at my home in Auckland, New Zealand.
On the other hand, beneficiaries of missionary work may be more interested in the actual tangible benefits they receive from missionary initiatives than they are in your imaginations about reality (which is what they are).
[deleted]
Missionaries also have "imaginations about reality" but they think that their imaginations are so much more important and meaningful than everyone else's. It's annoying. I don't care that they get value out of it. They get value out of something that's annoying and offensive to others; that's just selfish.
I wasn't suggesting anything secular. Programs like Doctors Without Borders was more what I had in mind, but that particular example requires specialization and longer-term commitment.
The point is to travel, see the real rest of the world, and to get something from the experience other than hangovers and gonorrhea.
Door-to-door evangelism amounts to harassment and is not at all in scope.
The point is to travel, see the real rest of the world, and to get something from the experience other than hangovers and gonorrhea.
Door-to-door evangelism amounts to harassment and is not at all in scope.
jstarfish did not say that missionary work would benefit the target audience of the missionary, and you did nothing to disabuse what he did say.
Same issue in Wellington. Really grinds my gears.
Indeed. But you should try to put yourself in a position where you can define the struggle you want to triumph over.
I find that there’s too much emphasis on “finding your bliss.” My ‘purpose’ is to negate other’s control over me. Wealth is independence, so my jobs are income (not status) generators. At the beginning of my career I consistently asked for higher pay & left if refused. Over time, the greater my wealth, the greater my ability to say “no,” and conversely the better employers have treated me. I’m offered promotions, stock options, etc without asking for them and I basically do what I want and get paid well for it. So my negative purpose, avoiding being controlled, has worked out for me.
Notice what makes you smile despite yourself.
Think about the things you did over and over again between the ages of six to twelve.
Think of the times when you had to choose between different problems to solve, homework to do, questions to answer, whatever, and you chose what you chose.
As I type this, I am aware it sounds bonkers. But when you pay close attention to what accomplished, creative people say when they talk about their life's work, you notice it all sounds so very, very similar.
They could be in science or art or sports or music or politics or really anything, and they'd point to some foundational behavior or event at a young age. And then they'll also talk about not WHY they love the thing they're doing, but rather how they just SEEMED TO DO the thing they're doing, and they kinda decided they may as well do more of it, or do it properly.
It's not about a big reveal. Rather, it's like a tiny voice, and the more attentively you listen, the clearer it becomes.
As I type this, I am aware it sounds bonkers. But when you pay close attention to what accomplished, creative people say when they talk about their life's work, you notice it all sounds so very, very similar.
They could be in science or art or sports or music or politics or really anything, and they'd point to some foundational behavior or event at a young age. And then they'll also talk about not WHY they love the thing they're doing, but rather how they just SEEMED TO DO the thing they're doing, and they kinda decided they may as well do more of it, or do it properly.
It's not about a big reveal. Rather, it's like a tiny voice, and the more attentively you listen, the clearer it becomes.
"Making the world a better place, through minimal message oriented transport layers." -Hooli
What is important to you, what do you care about? Who depends on you for what? What skills, abilities, connections, positions, etc. do you have that can be useful in the world?
I think too often people want some grand overall narrative about making a big impact on the world, which, if you adopt it without really truly believing and caring about it, will be actually demotivating. For the most part, anyone can find purpose by doing a better job at what they are already doing in life. Be a better whatever you are. Go deeply into it, and put more energy into it.
What is important to you, what do you care about? Who depends on you for what? What skills, abilities, connections, positions, etc. do you have that can be useful in the world?
I think too often people want some grand overall narrative about making a big impact on the world, which, if you adopt it without really truly believing and caring about it, will be actually demotivating. For the most part, anyone can find purpose by doing a better job at what they are already doing in life. Be a better whatever you are. Go deeply into it, and put more energy into it.
I also highly recommend these books:
* Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl
* The Enchiridion by Epictetus
* Meditations by Marcus AureliusI don't think you should buy it; you've been programmed to believe it so that it becomes self-fulfilling prophecy. I think people are more satisfied with life when they have a purpose because they think they need a purpose, but that seems to me like a symptom of a prevalent mode of thought--Heidegger described the modern myth that we work with is that everything kind of represents a flat plane of potential to exploit and turn into utility or usefulness, and searching for some kind of overriding purpose seems like a consequence of that.
I think you should just explore religion (esp. Zen, Dzogchen, Mahamudra, Advaita), philosophy, literature, and yourself through first person experience until you intuitively feel the error of this entire mode of thought. It won't do to tell yourself that, although reaching the conclusion analytically makes for a first step. You have "meaning" and "purpose" sapping assumptions built into you, like modern materialist reductionism. Reductionism says that a thing amounts to the sum of its parts, but it's obviously fallacious. Try cutting a cat in half and putting the two parts back together and seeing if you have what you started with. Reductionism is a powerful mode of thought in certain circumstances, but it's not absolutely true.
I think we need to acknowledge what there is outside of ourselves, and recognize that the universal is always and only found in the the particular. Every blade of grass is alive with meaning, but it doesn't speak it in terms of utility and materialist reductionism.
I think you should just explore religion (esp. Zen, Dzogchen, Mahamudra, Advaita), philosophy, literature, and yourself through first person experience until you intuitively feel the error of this entire mode of thought. It won't do to tell yourself that, although reaching the conclusion analytically makes for a first step. You have "meaning" and "purpose" sapping assumptions built into you, like modern materialist reductionism. Reductionism says that a thing amounts to the sum of its parts, but it's obviously fallacious. Try cutting a cat in half and putting the two parts back together and seeing if you have what you started with. Reductionism is a powerful mode of thought in certain circumstances, but it's not absolutely true.
I think we need to acknowledge what there is outside of ourselves, and recognize that the universal is always and only found in the the particular. Every blade of grass is alive with meaning, but it doesn't speak it in terms of utility and materialist reductionism.
That’s an interesting take.
I would add that while you don’t necessarily need your life to have a purpose, having a job (or hobbies) that have a purpose is important. Whether the purpose is helping others, knowledge, money… just find something that has meaning to you.
That wasn’t the original poster’s question though, but Thought it would be a nice precision.
I would add that while you don’t necessarily need your life to have a purpose, having a job (or hobbies) that have a purpose is important. Whether the purpose is helping others, knowledge, money… just find something that has meaning to you.
That wasn’t the original poster’s question though, but Thought it would be a nice precision.
I think the words "meaning" and "calling" are a bit strong. They all kind of imply the notion that there is one thing that will make you happy and that you have to find it.
In reality, I think there are lots of different (company, position) that can make you happy.
You also used the word "value", which I think is more on point.
We all have a different set of values. If you do things that are in conflict with those values, you will feel bad. So finding a job where the most important values you have are fulfilled is a key point to being happy.
I don't have any particular resource, but I think there must be a lot of books on how to find and understand those values. I personnally worked on that with a therapist.
My example :
I was working in a 45k-employee engineering service company (not sure of the english translation), where I was working on an ERP software for (military) aviation. The tech stack and the human organization was terrible.
It conflicted with some of my values (knowledge, peace, creativity, autonomy...) and was starting to make me feel anxious and angry. I also felt that what I did had no real purpose.
I knew I needed a place where kindness and knowledge were important. When I finally found that, working in a place were I feel the end product makes the world better, my life really was better.
You also used the word "value", which I think is more on point.
We all have a different set of values. If you do things that are in conflict with those values, you will feel bad. So finding a job where the most important values you have are fulfilled is a key point to being happy.
I don't have any particular resource, but I think there must be a lot of books on how to find and understand those values. I personnally worked on that with a therapist.
My example :
I was working in a 45k-employee engineering service company (not sure of the english translation), where I was working on an ERP software for (military) aviation. The tech stack and the human organization was terrible.
It conflicted with some of my values (knowledge, peace, creativity, autonomy...) and was starting to make me feel anxious and angry. I also felt that what I did had no real purpose.
I knew I needed a place where kindness and knowledge were important. When I finally found that, working in a place were I feel the end product makes the world better, my life really was better.
In plain english, "Ikigai" is the intersection of:
- what you enjoy doing
- what you are good at doing
- what you can get paid for doing
Imagine a a circle for each of those categiries as a Venn diagram - the middle of the 3 would be "Ikigai."
Try making a list of all three, then see if there is overlap.
- what you enjoy doing
- what you are good at doing
- what you can get paid for doing
Imagine a a circle for each of those categiries as a Venn diagram - the middle of the 3 would be "Ikigai."
Try making a list of all three, then see if there is overlap.
I tried that and it completely broke me working with other people who did a shitty job of what I loved doing and didn't care.
I now worked out the thing to do is earn lots of money turning something you hate but are good at into something tolerable. That gives you time, energy and money for the things you love.
I now worked out the thing to do is earn lots of money turning something you hate but are good at into something tolerable. That gives you time, energy and money for the things you love.
Speaking of purpose, that's the purpose of friends, not of coworkers. For example, think of the Gates and Buffett friendship. Or scroll down to the bottom of any pg essay to see: "…and by the way these are my friends."
Do what lets you afford your hobbies.
[deleted]
Unfortunately, once you start getting paid, and especially if it's what you rely on to live, the joy often disappears. Not always, but it seems to be quite common.
See: hedonic adaptation [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill]
It's not hedonic adaptation. Work has a tendency has a tendency to extract as much as it can until it kills and corrupts it the entire way there.
I once read on one my social media timelines someone wrote that "pursuing your passion is a luxury".
Certainly nice to have, but just make sure you have a decent living first.
:)
Certainly nice to have, but just make sure you have a decent living first.
:)
Yes, because usually job is done for client or employee, not for you or your close ones. Then place for self expression is limited.
I think you are forgetting one more category: what the world needs
OP may find this helpful: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-aKPqgFP1m1Y/WdVP2sfqAmI/AAAAAAAAl...
OP may find this helpful: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-aKPqgFP1m1Y/WdVP2sfqAmI/AAAAAAAAl...
That’s what the pay is indicative of. If people want it, they will pay for it, and your employer will pay you to deliver it. Unless you’re talking about being driven by a goal outside of any business (i.e. market) needs.
The world is full of market failures but yeah, they approximate each other.
This came up in the Tim Ferris interview with Jim Collins [0].
Collins has a notion called the "Hedgehog Concept". Which is the same as you're noting, but a bit more concise.
- What you love to do
- What you are encoded for (not just good at)
- What you can be paid to do
I think the reframing of the 2nd bullet is important. There's a difference being good at something and being encoded for something. You can be good at math, but relative to someone encoded for math, you're going to face significantly more friction.
This is a hard question and requires a high degree of self-honesty, but I believe it is the crucial differentiator in identifying your "purpose".
0. https://tim.blog/2019/02/20/the-tim-ferriss-show-transcripts...
Collins has a notion called the "Hedgehog Concept". Which is the same as you're noting, but a bit more concise.
- What you love to do
- What you are encoded for (not just good at)
- What you can be paid to do
I think the reframing of the 2nd bullet is important. There's a difference being good at something and being encoded for something. You can be good at math, but relative to someone encoded for math, you're going to face significantly more friction.
This is a hard question and requires a high degree of self-honesty, but I believe it is the crucial differentiator in identifying your "purpose".
0. https://tim.blog/2019/02/20/the-tim-ferriss-show-transcripts...
These 3 criteria seem rather narrow to define a concept as existentially loaded as ikigai. There's a related narrower Japanese word for purely work/task-related satisfaction, "yarigai", which seems closer to what you're talking about.
There are many things I enjoy doing. And I have been well paid for doing one of those things for decades. The fact that I have been employed at it for decades might indicate that I am good at it. So, maybe the trick is to enjoy doing many things so that maybe someone will pay you to do one of those things.
I mean, I'm not even sure if it's legal to own aquatic marine mammals of that size, but I can see how that relationship would be meaningful.
I'd probably start with some marine biology classes. Then maybe you could find an internship or job at a large aquarium. After that you'd need to forge relationships with handlers and suppliers. Start reaching out and asking "hypothetical questions" about sourcing "for the aquarium" ;)
While you're trying to make the deal you'll need to setup a space for your new friend. You'll probably need a source for fish in bulk and maybe a free water source. Municipal water would be expensive.
Good luck!
I'd probably start with some marine biology classes. Then maybe you could find an internship or job at a large aquarium. After that you'd need to forge relationships with handlers and suppliers. Start reaching out and asking "hypothetical questions" about sourcing "for the aquarium" ;)
While you're trying to make the deal you'll need to setup a space for your new friend. You'll probably need a source for fish in bulk and maybe a free water source. Municipal water would be expensive.
Good luck!
{slow clap}
Most of the adult search for meaning cases i’ve met (including myself) comes down to disguising one of these underlying issues:
1. Depression and similar type of disorders. You seek for some “purpose” as a magic pill that will suddenly make your troubles go away.
2. Fear of taking responsibility for your own life and decisions. Sort of a passive infantile position when you subconsciously hope that Santa Claus will finally give you some ultimate gift that will make all major decisions for you and will give you some magical motivation, guidance and answers to major questions out of nothing.
3. Form of addiction when all the usual stimulations like social media, porn, eating, smoking, alcohol etc. are not enough anymore to give you high, but your wise mind blocks you from switching to heavy drugs and masks this as a socially acceptable and even encouraged noble “search for meaning”.
All this doesn’t mean there is no purpose or it cant be found.
But my personal observations suggest, that once you’re out of the games you play with yourself and healthy enough physically — you don’t need a dedicated process for that, it comes more or less naturally.
And usually in a very unique way that can hardly be extrapolated to other people. Despite the opposite view of all those fancy bestsellers that not worth the paper they printed on.
This is the reason you haven’t found yet and ’ll never do any certain final answer, but just tons and tons of materials circling around and never hitting the target.
The best you can count on is to find someone who’s life, values, circumstances, personality are close enough to yours so you get some spark pushing you to your own answers.
1. Depression and similar type of disorders. You seek for some “purpose” as a magic pill that will suddenly make your troubles go away.
2. Fear of taking responsibility for your own life and decisions. Sort of a passive infantile position when you subconsciously hope that Santa Claus will finally give you some ultimate gift that will make all major decisions for you and will give you some magical motivation, guidance and answers to major questions out of nothing.
3. Form of addiction when all the usual stimulations like social media, porn, eating, smoking, alcohol etc. are not enough anymore to give you high, but your wise mind blocks you from switching to heavy drugs and masks this as a socially acceptable and even encouraged noble “search for meaning”.
All this doesn’t mean there is no purpose or it cant be found.
But my personal observations suggest, that once you’re out of the games you play with yourself and healthy enough physically — you don’t need a dedicated process for that, it comes more or less naturally.
And usually in a very unique way that can hardly be extrapolated to other people. Despite the opposite view of all those fancy bestsellers that not worth the paper they printed on.
This is the reason you haven’t found yet and ’ll never do any certain final answer, but just tons and tons of materials circling around and never hitting the target.
The best you can count on is to find someone who’s life, values, circumstances, personality are close enough to yours so you get some spark pushing you to your own answers.
The universe is doomed to death by entropy, only life can reverse entropy.
Genesis 1:28 is your purpose; "Be fruitful and multiply"
It's best to implement that with another person who shares your purpose and helps enable the objects of your purpose to implement theirs.
Everything else you do are trade-offs to making the implementation of your purpose as enjoyable as possible for you and your partner.
Genesis 1:28 is your purpose; "Be fruitful and multiply"
It's best to implement that with another person who shares your purpose and helps enable the objects of your purpose to implement theirs.
Everything else you do are trade-offs to making the implementation of your purpose as enjoyable as possible for you and your partner.
I think most people find purpose either in religions or in generalized religions (altruism, consumerism, political activism) or simply in having a family.
Starting a family is definitely the safest bet, probably long term too because these ideologies tend to lose their appeal over time.
But hey, I don't even seek happiness myself. I'd be glad to just know WTF all this was about before I die. Being some 10^28 particles out of 10^80 particles in a weird universe which doesn't seem to have any obvious purpose on one hand, and yet we're in this specific one and not in any other.
On the one hand it's so mind bogging huge and yet on large scale everything is pretty predictable, and the only interesting calculation as far as we can see in universe is actually right here. Humanity could explode into the Galaxy or it could die silently and predicting it is harder than the most complex physics of any known star.
Starting a family is definitely the safest bet, probably long term too because these ideologies tend to lose their appeal over time.
But hey, I don't even seek happiness myself. I'd be glad to just know WTF all this was about before I die. Being some 10^28 particles out of 10^80 particles in a weird universe which doesn't seem to have any obvious purpose on one hand, and yet we're in this specific one and not in any other.
On the one hand it's so mind bogging huge and yet on large scale everything is pretty predictable, and the only interesting calculation as far as we can see in universe is actually right here. Humanity could explode into the Galaxy or it could die silently and predicting it is harder than the most complex physics of any known star.
Just to piggy back on this post, don't start a family because you want to find your purpose. Start a family because you want a family, no other reason.
To add to this, start a family because you want to nurture and care for a family - not just to 'have' one.
Children are not trophies or status symbols - they need care, love and attention, as well as independence and respect, to flourish.
If you have a family, their wellbeing and future should be your purpose.
Children are not trophies or status symbols - they need care, love and attention, as well as independence and respect, to flourish.
If you have a family, their wellbeing and future should be your purpose.
The "purpose" question is easier when someone is trying to kill you - your purpose is to survive. If you zoom out in time and space, considering the Fermi paradox, humanity is in a "default dead" state. This would be true even if climate change, nuclear war, etc was off the table. This implies that humanities purpose is to survive, against all odds.
So, if someone is trying to kill you, survive. If they aren't (and I hope that is the case!), try to find ways to help humanity survive in a universe that, if nothing is done, will kill all of us and our descendants sooner rather than later.
Now, assuming that we figure it out, and spread life beyond Earth in a sustainable way (which includes making Earth life sustainable), our descendants can address the question of purpose more fully. But until then, our only reasonable purpose is to give them the chance to ask.
So, if someone is trying to kill you, survive. If they aren't (and I hope that is the case!), try to find ways to help humanity survive in a universe that, if nothing is done, will kill all of us and our descendants sooner rather than later.
Now, assuming that we figure it out, and spread life beyond Earth in a sustainable way (which includes making Earth life sustainable), our descendants can address the question of purpose more fully. But until then, our only reasonable purpose is to give them the chance to ask.
There's this Ramen place near me that has incredible soup. The dude who runs the place puts his entire self into making the best soup he can. You don't have to change the world and save the human species, it's okay to spend your time trying to make the best soup around because you love watching people smile when they slurp your soup.
Wonderful! Reminds me of "Jiro Dreams of Sushi". That is the quality of most human endeavor, which is neutral, or slightly positive (or negative) on the scale of protecting Life itself. Those who find true meaning and purpose at a human scale are quite fortunate. The purpose I speak of is the best purpose, in the Aristotelian sense, and so should be the purpose of global human leadership, and every individual's experience shaped by that purpose. There is still room for excellent ramen in such a world. And in fact that total commitment, the attainment of "flow", is exceptional and serves as a good example for everyone else.
To save Life in the long term will be the task of millions over many years, and the work will be easier with good raman in the belly.
To save Life in the long term will be the task of millions over many years, and the work will be easier with good raman in the belly.
Why are you concerned with the far future of humanity when millions of people don't have access to food, safe shelter, and clean drinking water?
I agree with you that we should allow our descendants to ask the purpose question, but there are much more urgent issues.
Our purpose should be to first eliminate basic human suffering in the present, and then expand our time horizons periodically after that. These problems are solvable. We can become a post-scarcity society.
I agree with you that we should allow our descendants to ask the purpose question, but there are much more urgent issues.
Our purpose should be to first eliminate basic human suffering in the present, and then expand our time horizons periodically after that. These problems are solvable. We can become a post-scarcity society.
I don't think existential risk is so far in the future. Climate change and nuclear holocaust remain urgent threats, and need to be dealt with first, obviously.
Just because my first priority is survival doesn't mean I have no other priorities - in general, I think society functions better with more "catch up" mechanics and fewer "win more" mechanics. I am not entirely convinced a "post scarcity" society can be achieved in real life, wonderful SF stories notwithstanding, and indeed if it could be achieved it might have disasterous consequences.
Consider the case of FTL flight. An FTL drive would solve this problem. But, it would also make possible doomsday weapons that would inevitably be used against whole planets. In the same way, post-scarcity implies that nothing will be scarce, including really bad things. My conservative believe is that solving our problems are going to be very difficult, from a political and engineering standpoint, and there will be no magic bullet. So: gird yourself for some messy, hard work!
Just because my first priority is survival doesn't mean I have no other priorities - in general, I think society functions better with more "catch up" mechanics and fewer "win more" mechanics. I am not entirely convinced a "post scarcity" society can be achieved in real life, wonderful SF stories notwithstanding, and indeed if it could be achieved it might have disasterous consequences.
Consider the case of FTL flight. An FTL drive would solve this problem. But, it would also make possible doomsday weapons that would inevitably be used against whole planets. In the same way, post-scarcity implies that nothing will be scarce, including really bad things. My conservative believe is that solving our problems are going to be very difficult, from a political and engineering standpoint, and there will be no magic bullet. So: gird yourself for some messy, hard work!
> Zoom out. Imagine this hypothetical paradox. An abstract problem. Therefore…
This doesn’t tickle me. Maybe if I imagined myself as an Asimov character.
This doesn’t tickle me. Maybe if I imagined myself as an Asimov character.
Survival & reproduction.
You should read Carl Newport thoughts on "finding your passion" on "So Good They Can't Ignore You":
His thoughts on "finding your passion" are that most people don’t have a clear passion to follow, and that we don’t have evidence having a job based on an interest makes you more likely to find that work satisfying. He believes that is better to master valuable niche skills and then use them as leverage to steer your work to directions that resonate with you.
He also has develop a framework for life called Deep Life where he separates the Deep Life into 4 areas: Community (family, friends, etc.), Craft (work and quality leisure), Constitution (health), and Contemplation (matters of the soul).
"To me, the deep life is about focusing with energetic intention on things that really matter — in work, at home, and in your soul — and not wasting too much attention on things that don’t". – Cal Newport
I leave you some links:
Book "So Good They Can't Ignore You" https://www.calnewport.com/books/so-good/
On Passion and Its Discontents https://www.calnewport.com/blog/2018/06/30/on-passion-and-it...
The Deep Life: Some Notes https://www.calnewport.com/blog/2020/03/17/the-deep-life-som...
His thoughts on "finding your passion" are that most people don’t have a clear passion to follow, and that we don’t have evidence having a job based on an interest makes you more likely to find that work satisfying. He believes that is better to master valuable niche skills and then use them as leverage to steer your work to directions that resonate with you.
He also has develop a framework for life called Deep Life where he separates the Deep Life into 4 areas: Community (family, friends, etc.), Craft (work and quality leisure), Constitution (health), and Contemplation (matters of the soul).
"To me, the deep life is about focusing with energetic intention on things that really matter — in work, at home, and in your soul — and not wasting too much attention on things that don’t". – Cal Newport
I leave you some links:
Book "So Good They Can't Ignore You" https://www.calnewport.com/books/so-good/
On Passion and Its Discontents https://www.calnewport.com/blog/2018/06/30/on-passion-and-it...
The Deep Life: Some Notes https://www.calnewport.com/blog/2020/03/17/the-deep-life-som...
This is a topic I think about quite regularly, so I think it is safe to say I don't have it all figured out.
But the one belief I've come to is that we do ourselves a disservice when we fall pray to the idea that the universe has some purpose for us. In reality, we are just animals like the all the rest, just more intelligent. We don't believe that there is some grand purpose behind the squirrels you see in your yard, and it is hard to imagine they put much thought into it either.
Instead, if we look at our lives as just one thread of existence among all the others, it takes a lot of the pressure off of us having to live some preordained path. Instead, we can choose our own path and follow wherever our interests and experiences bring us.
Of course, being biological creatures, there is always our internal "purpose" of continuing the human race. Whether that is through having kids, ensuring our environment isn't going to be uninhabitable in a few generations, or the propagation of our species beyond our planet, there are things we can all do towards this end (with wildly differing degrees of challenge admittedly). But these are the purposes we all share to some degree.
But beyond that, your life is yours to live as you wish. Find the things that you are drawn to and where spending hours on it feels effortless and you'll be on your way to a good life.
I think the big temptation that many of us face, in big part due to our environments, is the belief that we need to become wealthy to live a good and purposeful life. In some cases the purpose you decide upon will naturally, and conveniently, lead towards the acquisition of wealth. But for most it will not. And pursuing wealth when you could be pursuing the things you actually want to spend your time (your most valuable resource) on is often a mistake.
But the one belief I've come to is that we do ourselves a disservice when we fall pray to the idea that the universe has some purpose for us. In reality, we are just animals like the all the rest, just more intelligent. We don't believe that there is some grand purpose behind the squirrels you see in your yard, and it is hard to imagine they put much thought into it either.
Instead, if we look at our lives as just one thread of existence among all the others, it takes a lot of the pressure off of us having to live some preordained path. Instead, we can choose our own path and follow wherever our interests and experiences bring us.
Of course, being biological creatures, there is always our internal "purpose" of continuing the human race. Whether that is through having kids, ensuring our environment isn't going to be uninhabitable in a few generations, or the propagation of our species beyond our planet, there are things we can all do towards this end (with wildly differing degrees of challenge admittedly). But these are the purposes we all share to some degree.
But beyond that, your life is yours to live as you wish. Find the things that you are drawn to and where spending hours on it feels effortless and you'll be on your way to a good life.
I think the big temptation that many of us face, in big part due to our environments, is the belief that we need to become wealthy to live a good and purposeful life. In some cases the purpose you decide upon will naturally, and conveniently, lead towards the acquisition of wealth. But for most it will not. And pursuing wealth when you could be pursuing the things you actually want to spend your time (your most valuable resource) on is often a mistake.
> But the one belief I've come to is that we do ourselves a disservice when we fall pray to the idea that the universe has some purpose for us.
I spent my 20's agonizing over whether or not I was working toward a purpose. While there is value in introspection, I regret that I devoted so much time to this question. I was not living in the moment, I was not enjoying my life. I'd constantly question whether I was on the wrong path, if I could have been more impactful if I had only taken that job at the risky climate-focused start-up, gone back to school for a PhD, quit everything and traveled the world, etc.
Do not fall into this trap. We cannot know our purpose of our life until it is over. Like many others in this thread, I highly recommend "Man's Search for Meaning" by Viktor Frankl. It's probably the only book on this topic that I actually found helpful.
I spent my 20's agonizing over whether or not I was working toward a purpose. While there is value in introspection, I regret that I devoted so much time to this question. I was not living in the moment, I was not enjoying my life. I'd constantly question whether I was on the wrong path, if I could have been more impactful if I had only taken that job at the risky climate-focused start-up, gone back to school for a PhD, quit everything and traveled the world, etc.
Do not fall into this trap. We cannot know our purpose of our life until it is over. Like many others in this thread, I highly recommend "Man's Search for Meaning" by Viktor Frankl. It's probably the only book on this topic that I actually found helpful.
I suspect that one important part is to get rid of other people's ideas.
For example, in this discussion, currently the most upvoted answer says that your purpose must be a source of income. Well, not really. Some people have a day job to keep their bills, and write poetry at night, and they consider the poetry to be their purpose. Of course, it is awesome if your purpose can also become a source of income (because then you can spend more time doing it), but do not put the cart before the horse. First find out what your purpose is, only then start thinking about making money from it.
Similarly, "what you are good at doing" is a nice thing, but that often comes with practice. Do not give up on trying new things.
Try different things. Afterwards, notice the emotions connected with your memories of doing those things. Explore around the things that felt good; try doing something similar but different.
For example, in this discussion, currently the most upvoted answer says that your purpose must be a source of income. Well, not really. Some people have a day job to keep their bills, and write poetry at night, and they consider the poetry to be their purpose. Of course, it is awesome if your purpose can also become a source of income (because then you can spend more time doing it), but do not put the cart before the horse. First find out what your purpose is, only then start thinking about making money from it.
Similarly, "what you are good at doing" is a nice thing, but that often comes with practice. Do not give up on trying new things.
Try different things. Afterwards, notice the emotions connected with your memories of doing those things. Explore around the things that felt good; try doing something similar but different.
Follow your curiosity. Don't worry about finding the one true path. There are many great paths you can take. As long as you feel that you are learning new things, keep going.
https://stephanango.com/solving-problem-finding
https://stephanango.com/solving-problem-finding
One notable person's answers to your question: https://sive.rs/faq
I found them useful, myself.
Derek's "Don't Be A Donkey" post is also applicable here: https://sive.rs/donkey
Have you considered that the question may be a trap and/or pointless to begin with?
I found them useful, myself.
Derek's "Don't Be A Donkey" post is also applicable here: https://sive.rs/donkey
Have you considered that the question may be a trap and/or pointless to begin with?
I have considered it, and that may be the answer. However, studies do show that "have a purpose" is correlated with happiness.
Cause vs correlation perhaps.
People with a purpose have less decisions to make on their own - their purpose directs them - and therefore they have less stress, and more happiness.
It's why many people are drawn to religion - it removes some responsibility and decision, and focuses life.
People with a purpose have less decisions to make on their own - their purpose directs them - and therefore they have less stress, and more happiness.
It's why many people are drawn to religion - it removes some responsibility and decision, and focuses life.
Exactly.
I can speak to this.
First, listen to affinity effects, but listen critically.
What I mean is: if you find that you just so happen to get along really great with haberdashers, you find yourself at haberdashery conventions, and you have an ample collection of hats: take note of this! *But let this be one factor among others.* Some of the most important, purposeful years of my life came from people and contexts I didn't think I related to at all.
Next, get yourself a bunch of free time and a space to experiment in.
Try out stuff you're curious about! For me, it was textile design, music, and calligraphy. I'm terrible at all of these things, but I never would have figured out what I do want to do, which is design & build user interfaces.
And when I do, I think a lot about how tailors make garments that feel so good and right and true, but still look amazing. This metaphor informs and enriches my software practice.
The key ingredients are time, money, safety, and space.
You need time -- no one can experiment if they have only an hour or two of freedom per day.
You need money -- no one can experiment without making purchases.
You need safety -- it has to be safe to experiment. No one innovates when the consequences of failure are homelessness and death.
And finally, you need physical space to house whatever equipment and resources you need for your explorations.
First, listen to affinity effects, but listen critically.
What I mean is: if you find that you just so happen to get along really great with haberdashers, you find yourself at haberdashery conventions, and you have an ample collection of hats: take note of this! *But let this be one factor among others.* Some of the most important, purposeful years of my life came from people and contexts I didn't think I related to at all.
Next, get yourself a bunch of free time and a space to experiment in.
Try out stuff you're curious about! For me, it was textile design, music, and calligraphy. I'm terrible at all of these things, but I never would have figured out what I do want to do, which is design & build user interfaces.
And when I do, I think a lot about how tailors make garments that feel so good and right and true, but still look amazing. This metaphor informs and enriches my software practice.
The key ingredients are time, money, safety, and space.
You need time -- no one can experiment if they have only an hour or two of freedom per day.
You need money -- no one can experiment without making purchases.
You need safety -- it has to be safe to experiment. No one innovates when the consequences of failure are homelessness and death.
And finally, you need physical space to house whatever equipment and resources you need for your explorations.
>There are plenty of studies that show that having a "purpose" and working after it is correlated with higher happiness or well being.
I wouldn't even consider debating this with anyone. It's too true.
>"Purpose" is vague enough, so to make things worse I am going to conflate it with "life meaning", "calling" or "personal values".
What is the purpose of the yeast which makes bread? It is life, it has a purpose. What is the purpose of a grape vine? It is life and has a purpose.
Purpose is vague because it technically has to be simple because it's true of single celled organisms as well.
>I recently came across the Japanese "Ikigai" which seems related.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LE5bel_GvU
Only place I've ever seen the word. Possibly the same video you found?
>Ok, I buy this, however, what is this "purpose/ meaning/ calling/ value" thing? What does it mean, really? How do I find mine?
Another great video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-STKInWhpU
When you wake up in the morning. You could stay in bed and stay warm, but instead you jump out of bed and get dressed. You then move onto another task and another task. Imagine you're fulfilling missions. Even if they are small side missions, there is a reward in each mission. Making your bed, cleaning the garbage off the ground. Each thing does have a reward.
There will be a side mission sometime in the day which when you actually do it, it becomes your purpose. It's going to be something you would never have done. Perhaps you're in the grocery store and some old lady is struggling to grab something. You grab it for them, and its wierd, you never do this. You didnt expect anything in return but you did get a reward. Not from the lady, but you did receive a reward.
I wouldn't even consider debating this with anyone. It's too true.
>"Purpose" is vague enough, so to make things worse I am going to conflate it with "life meaning", "calling" or "personal values".
What is the purpose of the yeast which makes bread? It is life, it has a purpose. What is the purpose of a grape vine? It is life and has a purpose.
Purpose is vague because it technically has to be simple because it's true of single celled organisms as well.
>I recently came across the Japanese "Ikigai" which seems related.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LE5bel_GvU
Only place I've ever seen the word. Possibly the same video you found?
>Ok, I buy this, however, what is this "purpose/ meaning/ calling/ value" thing? What does it mean, really? How do I find mine?
Another great video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-STKInWhpU
When you wake up in the morning. You could stay in bed and stay warm, but instead you jump out of bed and get dressed. You then move onto another task and another task. Imagine you're fulfilling missions. Even if they are small side missions, there is a reward in each mission. Making your bed, cleaning the garbage off the ground. Each thing does have a reward.
There will be a side mission sometime in the day which when you actually do it, it becomes your purpose. It's going to be something you would never have done. Perhaps you're in the grocery store and some old lady is struggling to grab something. You grab it for them, and its wierd, you never do this. You didnt expect anything in return but you did get a reward. Not from the lady, but you did receive a reward.
>>I recently came across the Japanese "Ikigai" which seems related.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LE5bel_GvU Only place I've ever seen the word. Possibly the same video you found?
I had not seen this. Thanks.
I have come across multiple articles, books, podcasts, etc. (Though only recently, so I haven't gone down that rabbit hole yet)
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LE5bel_GvU Only place I've ever seen the word. Possibly the same video you found?
I had not seen this. Thanks.
I have come across multiple articles, books, podcasts, etc. (Though only recently, so I haven't gone down that rabbit hole yet)
To me, regardless of what you call it, it comes down to two things: 1. finding something you enjoy/willingly put great effort into, 2. looking back on your life at the end and not regretting the time spent.
I can't say I know I've found mine but I have from a young age enjoyed understanding and making machinery, now extended to software. I try to improve and apply my ability at a company that doesn't suck and share anything useful I've learned. I still greatly enjoy learning and applying new knowledge in this area.
Conversely every now and then, I wonder if I wouldn't have more appreciated following an artistic path, say off the top of my head like Aphex Twin (without the fame & success). Probably some of both makes sense. The most important thing is probably not to get caught up not doing anything. You rarely know it's "the thing" while you're doing it, only in retrospect might you realize it was.
Caveat: enjoying (1) is optional if (2) is significant enough and you can endure. :-)
I can't say I know I've found mine but I have from a young age enjoyed understanding and making machinery, now extended to software. I try to improve and apply my ability at a company that doesn't suck and share anything useful I've learned. I still greatly enjoy learning and applying new knowledge in this area.
Conversely every now and then, I wonder if I wouldn't have more appreciated following an artistic path, say off the top of my head like Aphex Twin (without the fame & success). Probably some of both makes sense. The most important thing is probably not to get caught up not doing anything. You rarely know it's "the thing" while you're doing it, only in retrospect might you realize it was.
Caveat: enjoying (1) is optional if (2) is significant enough and you can endure. :-)
I talked to a therapist about this once and he told me to volunteer or have kids. Haven't talked to a therapist again since those were dumb suggestions.
Settled into just enjoying my life and building for the future. Work out, have a dog, have a partner, build cool things. No more existential dread about purpose.
Settled into just enjoying my life and building for the future. Work out, have a dog, have a partner, build cool things. No more existential dread about purpose.
From my experience, volunteering directly helping people has been highly rewarding.
Ideally, find somewhere you can volunteer the specific skills or interests you have to help people who otherwise wouldn't benefit from what you can bring to the table.
Ideally, it would also be physically active and interfacing directly with others in some way. (And not too closely related to what you do for your day job.)
Ideally, find somewhere you can volunteer the specific skills or interests you have to help people who otherwise wouldn't benefit from what you can bring to the table.
Ideally, it would also be physically active and interfacing directly with others in some way. (And not too closely related to what you do for your day job.)
Your purpose is something that can shift over time.
Some are lucky to find it quickly, others it takes awhile.
For me it has shifted as I’ve grown.
In my past I’ve been: A Christian preacher A Navy submarine sailor A wedding DJ A cyber security guy for the feds A software engineer
I’ve been lucky to find fulfillment in my work, my mission. Other ways I’ve found is to give back in some way. For example I use my technical talents to help secure police and 911 systems for my state as a volunteer, others help at shelters or with disaster relief. Others still are big brothers and big sisters. Some find it in religion.
It’s hard to feel unfulfilled when you’re making the world a better place. It’s a good place to start.
Take the scenic route through life, give freely of yourself to others, in this you will find peace.
Some are lucky to find it quickly, others it takes awhile.
For me it has shifted as I’ve grown.
In my past I’ve been: A Christian preacher A Navy submarine sailor A wedding DJ A cyber security guy for the feds A software engineer
I’ve been lucky to find fulfillment in my work, my mission. Other ways I’ve found is to give back in some way. For example I use my technical talents to help secure police and 911 systems for my state as a volunteer, others help at shelters or with disaster relief. Others still are big brothers and big sisters. Some find it in religion.
It’s hard to feel unfulfilled when you’re making the world a better place. It’s a good place to start.
Take the scenic route through life, give freely of yourself to others, in this you will find peace.
I don't believe in purpose anymore. Some people may think they have it, but I think a lot of us are just going to find fun/interesting things until they die and that's okay.
Re: ikigai, I hate this concept, though I'm unlucky enough that the things I love either 1) don't pay enough economically (unless you're stupidly lucky) or 2) you can get paid for it, but it will corrupt it and you'll have a hard time loving it any more. I think the best thing most of us can do is to find something you won't kill yourself doing and make money until you can buy your freedom (some might call that retirement). Maybe it'll be possible to do something truly meaningful afterwards.
Re: ikigai, I hate this concept, though I'm unlucky enough that the things I love either 1) don't pay enough economically (unless you're stupidly lucky) or 2) you can get paid for it, but it will corrupt it and you'll have a hard time loving it any more. I think the best thing most of us can do is to find something you won't kill yourself doing and make money until you can buy your freedom (some might call that retirement). Maybe it'll be possible to do something truly meaningful afterwards.
What if purpose isn't something you find, like coins on the sidewalk, but something you choose?
There may be many things you like or think have some value or that more of it should exist in the world. But maybe expecting one of those things to grab you in a cone of ethereal light is expecting too much. Perhaps the point is that you can choose and you should.
Go read Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl.
There may be many things you like or think have some value or that more of it should exist in the world. But maybe expecting one of those things to grab you in a cone of ethereal light is expecting too much. Perhaps the point is that you can choose and you should.
Go read Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl.
My observation, which also applies to finding a SO, is to get out there and do a bunch of different things, and it will find you.
You cannot read a book and find your calling, though it may give you ideas about interesting things to try.
You cannot read a book and find your calling, though it may give you ideas about interesting things to try.
"You, seed of an evil genius and precarious offspring of hard fortune, whose life is but for a day, why do you compel me to tell you those things of which it is better you should remain ignorant? For he lives with the least worry who knows not his misfortune; but for humans, the best for them is not to be born at all, not to partake of nature's excellence; not to be is best, for both sexes. This should be our choice, if choice we have; and the next to this is, when we are born, to die as soon as we can." - Silenus
... and this my friend is how the best form of literature known to man kind was born! Out of despair. Because for them, there was no paradise, only Hades. Jesus wasn't around and they didn't believe life after death was something worth bothering with, it was dark, cold and muddy!
> Is there any research that goes into what is "purpose" and how to figure it out
Is there some sort of research that can prove with certainty that you're in love?
Logic was invented long time ago to solve a communication problem. The most powerful expression of logic is mathematics. But purpose is beyond logic's scope. Mathematics can tell you how to get from pointA to pointB, can't tell you _why_ you have to go from pointA to pointB.
The fact you're even asking this questions is commendable. Most ppl are not as courageous. However, no one can do the work for you, you have to figure that for yourself.
... and this my friend is how the best form of literature known to man kind was born! Out of despair. Because for them, there was no paradise, only Hades. Jesus wasn't around and they didn't believe life after death was something worth bothering with, it was dark, cold and muddy!
> Is there any research that goes into what is "purpose" and how to figure it out
Is there some sort of research that can prove with certainty that you're in love?
Logic was invented long time ago to solve a communication problem. The most powerful expression of logic is mathematics. But purpose is beyond logic's scope. Mathematics can tell you how to get from pointA to pointB, can't tell you _why_ you have to go from pointA to pointB.
The fact you're even asking this questions is commendable. Most ppl are not as courageous. However, no one can do the work for you, you have to figure that for yourself.
"A man with a why can endure any how."
You can't force something to be your "why", it has to be natural, so if you haven't found it yet just keep exploring and enjoying the journey.
The older I get the more I find acceptance plays a role in all of this. At some point you may have make the choice to accept what you have and what you don't, embrace it, and let yourself be happy putting your all into that little universe. This doesn't have to conflict with having goals/dreams either!
Introspection through meditation can be helpful for this sort of stuff too.
You can't force something to be your "why", it has to be natural, so if you haven't found it yet just keep exploring and enjoying the journey.
The older I get the more I find acceptance plays a role in all of this. At some point you may have make the choice to accept what you have and what you don't, embrace it, and let yourself be happy putting your all into that little universe. This doesn't have to conflict with having goals/dreams either!
Introspection through meditation can be helpful for this sort of stuff too.
I am facing sort of a similar problem. I recently joined a $BIGTECH company. I work in the business development / product management area in technical capacity. Think of my role as a technical advisor, solutions architect or mini CTO to help my company's partners to build products together. Lately I have observed that a lot of folks I deal with at my $BIGTECH company as well as partner companies don't really do any real work. They attend meetings and sometimes they have update which basically is 'i am working on it'. The inflated titled executives (VP of strategy, Sr. director for finance industry etc) from partner companies just update a couple of words on 2 year old slide decks all day long and don't have tangible deliverable for months to show for. They don't have any valuable feedback on other's work. The partner companies I deal with are with 10k+ employees and these folks are supposed to be senior leaders thinking about 3, 5, 10 years vision. It's very demotivating to see people around me are either mediocre or not working at all. My work depends on they doing their job well and its stressful for me to deal with this. I feel like wasting my work-life just pretending.
I quit my previous job at another $BIGTECH company due to similar problem where people didn't want to work.
Is this a new thing since pandemic that people don't want to do real work? Or it was always like that.
I was a consultant for the last 15 years before becoming a full time bigtech employee a few years ago. I didn't have visibility into inner workings of tech companies.
I think I should do something of my own. But don't know what it should be.
I quit my previous job at another $BIGTECH company due to similar problem where people didn't want to work.
Is this a new thing since pandemic that people don't want to do real work? Or it was always like that.
I was a consultant for the last 15 years before becoming a full time bigtech employee a few years ago. I didn't have visibility into inner workings of tech companies.
I think I should do something of my own. But don't know what it should be.
There is no "Purpose" defined for you from external sources; "Purpose" is only defined by You yourself which can be anything and nothing at all. Your are a collection of "Streams of Thought-Forms" and it is entirely up to you whether you want to stay with one stream (i.e. Purpose) or not.
A couple of my previous comments are relevant here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32920232 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32920420
The following two books helped me wrestle with this problem;
* The Sea-Wolf by Jack London - Some relevant excerpts can be found here: https://old.reddit.com/r/books/comments/1jqpar/what_book_sin...
* Philosophy in a Meaningless Life: A System of Nihilism, Consciousness and Reality by James Tartaglia - You can download a free copy from here: https://www.bloomsburycollections.com/book/philosophy-in-a-m...
A couple of my previous comments are relevant here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32920232 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32920420
The following two books helped me wrestle with this problem;
* The Sea-Wolf by Jack London - Some relevant excerpts can be found here: https://old.reddit.com/r/books/comments/1jqpar/what_book_sin...
* Philosophy in a Meaningless Life: A System of Nihilism, Consciousness and Reality by James Tartaglia - You can download a free copy from here: https://www.bloomsburycollections.com/book/philosophy-in-a-m...
This is one area thats very clear to me. You should search for not purpose but Meaning. Purpose is subset of the things that give meaning to life. Purpose is goal with meaning and is more action oriented. "man's search for meaning" by victor frankl is very good read in this area.
One should search for meaning and happiness will come as a by product. This is better than being hedonistic and searching for happiness.
There are 2 meanings implicit and third one you can persue. 1) Search for meaning is meaningful itself.
2) Human life has intrinsic meaning. I dont agree with nihilism that life has no meaning. Life has no 'given' meaning - correct. But since we are conscious, there is a living being going through experiences, there is intrinsic meanining to human life. Consciousness gives meaning to everything. In absense of consciouness, nothing has meaning. This intrinsic meaning is irrespective of life success. Even for a complete failure, since a real living being went through this life, the life still has meanining.
3) External meaning. This is related to success happiness relationships helping others etc. This is a bit fragile, since if you lose these things then you lose meaning. And if you are not successful, life might feel meaningless.
A healthy life is a balance of persuing external meaning and accepting and giving value to internal meaning.
note - This way of thinking is not happiness vs meaning. happiness is one of the things that gives meaning to human life.
One should search for meaning and happiness will come as a by product. This is better than being hedonistic and searching for happiness.
There are 2 meanings implicit and third one you can persue. 1) Search for meaning is meaningful itself.
2) Human life has intrinsic meaning. I dont agree with nihilism that life has no meaning. Life has no 'given' meaning - correct. But since we are conscious, there is a living being going through experiences, there is intrinsic meanining to human life. Consciousness gives meaning to everything. In absense of consciouness, nothing has meaning. This intrinsic meaning is irrespective of life success. Even for a complete failure, since a real living being went through this life, the life still has meanining.
3) External meaning. This is related to success happiness relationships helping others etc. This is a bit fragile, since if you lose these things then you lose meaning. And if you are not successful, life might feel meaningless.
A healthy life is a balance of persuing external meaning and accepting and giving value to internal meaning.
note - This way of thinking is not happiness vs meaning. happiness is one of the things that gives meaning to human life.
Ha Ha 8-)
I take it from your username that this post is intended to trigger trolls, so I thought I'd respond...
Of course, the answer is, you have no "purpose", or you can have any "purpose" you choose.
Since "purpose" is a completely fictional concept, in the exact same way as finance. You take all the people away, there is no "purpose" to the universe.
Gravity, electromagentism, they're totally happy chugging along with no humans in sight.
But "purpose" evaporates as soon as you get rid of all the monkeys.
This "increase in happiness" you're talking about is just how monkeys think of themselves.
So, you can dive into the rabbit hole of that deep and dark world between your ears, or, you can face reality. OK, who's really going to do that? Not too many people, that's for sure.
I mean come on, you're awesome at Mario Cart right? Who wants to give the major successes in their lives only to face the fact that all of that stuff is bullshit?
So, slink off into the recesses of your neurotic primate consciousness and forget all about ever hearing about this thing called the "real world".
Just ask yourself, who's better off: someone who wrote a 900 page tome on human history, or someone who just wrote a "popular" novel?
Reality is not for the weak... There is no "purpose" except what you invent for yourself...
Of course, the answer is, you have no "purpose", or you can have any "purpose" you choose.
Since "purpose" is a completely fictional concept, in the exact same way as finance. You take all the people away, there is no "purpose" to the universe.
Gravity, electromagentism, they're totally happy chugging along with no humans in sight.
But "purpose" evaporates as soon as you get rid of all the monkeys.
This "increase in happiness" you're talking about is just how monkeys think of themselves.
So, you can dive into the rabbit hole of that deep and dark world between your ears, or, you can face reality. OK, who's really going to do that? Not too many people, that's for sure.
I mean come on, you're awesome at Mario Cart right? Who wants to give the major successes in their lives only to face the fact that all of that stuff is bullshit?
So, slink off into the recesses of your neurotic primate consciousness and forget all about ever hearing about this thing called the "real world".
Just ask yourself, who's better off: someone who wrote a 900 page tome on human history, or someone who just wrote a "popular" novel?
Reality is not for the weak... There is no "purpose" except what you invent for yourself...
Hehe. Mostly I just troll but I did mean this seriously.
I spent a lot time on this topic and in the end, I settled with "reproduction of genes". Maybe I am not exactly going to pursue my purpose, but it feels good to know once I pass on my genes, I have accomplished my purpose. Then I just enjoy my life without worrying about my purpose.
I’ve been working intentionally on this for over a year after I got laid off and decided I didn’t want to work for someone else again
The best explanation in what I’ve read is, purpose is “living the truest expression of yourself as a human being” - Oprah
To get there I recommend her book, “The Path Made Clear.” Go through it slowly. Your path will unfold in parallel.
I’m working on living authentically (saying what I need to say in the moment not thinking of it after the fact) which is needed to find and live your purpose.
Tactically, at its core, the first level is getting your basic needs met. Beyond that, it’s figuring out who you want to serve and how to use the gifts of your personality to serve them in a way that’s fulfilling to you.
In my year off I took many courses and read many books. 100DaysOfNoCode.com, 30 podcasts in 30 days, Pencil Pirates, Hassan Osman’s course creation course, Decafquest’s philosophy course. I recommend following your curiosity and taking courses that pique your interests. Through this I discovered I could draw. It’s been therapeutic and useful in many ways.
I’ve found my purpose, now I’ve got to figure out how to make a living off it. My purpose unfolded organically. I tried to ignore it because I couldn’t figure out how to make a living off it, but it kept coming up. It brings joy to myself and others. It’s something I couldn’t have figured out by following someone else’s path.
My purpose is to help people get unstuck. I can do it in 15 minutes with only 3 questions. The framework I developed evolved organically. There are 6 categories of questions to help people get unstuck. People love the sessions. Seeing them start with concern or uncertainty and end with relief and confidence is the most rewarding experience for me.
I wish you all the best on your journey
The best explanation in what I’ve read is, purpose is “living the truest expression of yourself as a human being” - Oprah
To get there I recommend her book, “The Path Made Clear.” Go through it slowly. Your path will unfold in parallel.
I’m working on living authentically (saying what I need to say in the moment not thinking of it after the fact) which is needed to find and live your purpose.
Tactically, at its core, the first level is getting your basic needs met. Beyond that, it’s figuring out who you want to serve and how to use the gifts of your personality to serve them in a way that’s fulfilling to you.
In my year off I took many courses and read many books. 100DaysOfNoCode.com, 30 podcasts in 30 days, Pencil Pirates, Hassan Osman’s course creation course, Decafquest’s philosophy course. I recommend following your curiosity and taking courses that pique your interests. Through this I discovered I could draw. It’s been therapeutic and useful in many ways.
I’ve found my purpose, now I’ve got to figure out how to make a living off it. My purpose unfolded organically. I tried to ignore it because I couldn’t figure out how to make a living off it, but it kept coming up. It brings joy to myself and others. It’s something I couldn’t have figured out by following someone else’s path.
My purpose is to help people get unstuck. I can do it in 15 minutes with only 3 questions. The framework I developed evolved organically. There are 6 categories of questions to help people get unstuck. People love the sessions. Seeing them start with concern or uncertainty and end with relief and confidence is the most rewarding experience for me.
I wish you all the best on your journey
As far as books goes, aside from The Path Made Clear, read those that help you go deep into whatever it is you’re exploring so you can quickly get over the discomfort of learning something new.
If you’re over 40, read From Strength to Strength. If you don’t already, learn to meditate. There are many different methods. Find one that feels right for you. Move your body in the way you naturally wanted to as a child. For example, I loved riding my bike and doing cartwheels so I bicycle and do yoga.
I recommend Meditations of Marcus Aurelius. The next book on my reading list is Soulcraft by Bill Plotkin.
As far as happiness, it’s not a destination. It comes in moments. You have happiness. We all do. The trick is to be present when it happens. The key to happiness is decreasing the moments of unhappiness, learning how to let go. A mentor of mine told me to figure out how to only give 1 fuck a week. It changed my life.
Journal, analyze what brings you moments of unhappiness and structure your life to eliminate as many of those as possible. Write what brings you more moments of happiness and how to increase those.
If you’re over 40, read From Strength to Strength. If you don’t already, learn to meditate. There are many different methods. Find one that feels right for you. Move your body in the way you naturally wanted to as a child. For example, I loved riding my bike and doing cartwheels so I bicycle and do yoga.
I recommend Meditations of Marcus Aurelius. The next book on my reading list is Soulcraft by Bill Plotkin.
As far as happiness, it’s not a destination. It comes in moments. You have happiness. We all do. The trick is to be present when it happens. The key to happiness is decreasing the moments of unhappiness, learning how to let go. A mentor of mine told me to figure out how to only give 1 fuck a week. It changed my life.
Journal, analyze what brings you moments of unhappiness and structure your life to eliminate as many of those as possible. Write what brings you more moments of happiness and how to increase those.
If you make your purpose helping others find and fulfill their purpose, get through their sorrows, and find joy in their lives, you will have a life with very few regrets and plenty of motivation.
And in that endeavor, you will find your unique purpose. That is, what talents, passions, and resources you have that best enable you to live a life of service and love to those around you.
Regardless of circumstance there is _always_ something we can do for one another.
Full disclosure: I am a Christian and that greatly informs my values and worldview.
And in that endeavor, you will find your unique purpose. That is, what talents, passions, and resources you have that best enable you to live a life of service and love to those around you.
Regardless of circumstance there is _always_ something we can do for one another.
Full disclosure: I am a Christian and that greatly informs my values and worldview.
Explore exploit is my basic mental model for everything. When you don't know what to do randomly sample your options. When you start finding things you like begin shifting your efforts towards exploiting what you know.
If you don't know what your purpose is, try different things - art, making money, helping people, socializing, etc. Figure out low cost ways you can try new stuff. When you start to enjoy an area invest more in that area. When you start to imagine possible plans, increase your focus.
If you don't know what your purpose is, try different things - art, making money, helping people, socializing, etc. Figure out low cost ways you can try new stuff. When you start to enjoy an area invest more in that area. When you start to imagine possible plans, increase your focus.
Well, I think a change in perspective might help. Namely, you do not find your purpose because it's not lost. You create or choose your purpose. A purpose is not necessarily inherent, or given to you by the Universe. On a related note, work hard to understand that point enough to stop feeling bad about not having one. We evolved to want a purpose or goals for fitness purposes, but there's no rule coming from the Universe that says you're supposed to have one. That can be liberating to realize. On the other hand, you do have built in constraints as a human. So, when creating a purpose, I think it's useful to start with Maslow's hierarchy. Do you have the base levels covered. What about the one's above that? Etc. If not, then I think you should mainly make your purpose getting those needs filled before expanding. If you're lucky enough to live in the USA, or another such country, and you get a reasonably good education, then you probably already have basic needs taken care of. Part of your purpose, then, is to maintain your basic needs. Once you're good there, I would focus on researching well being and happiness. Make your main purpose exploring which of those things works for you. Purpose itself is one of those things, so this is self-referential, but there are many other things. Pay attention to your unique combination of traits and strengths. Which of those will give you the best chance of making an impact in your own life and in the world. Can you make any of those your purpose? Keep exploring. Importantly, I think mindfulness training will help give you a way to enjoy or be at peace moment to moment, so explore that too.
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My "purpose", though it feels rather grand to call it that, is simply to have a good time.
Do I derive some sort of great spiritual meaning from working on side-projects, reading lots of books, playing tabletop RPGs, and planning to get a dog some day? No. But those things bring me satisfaction and happiness, and that's all that is necessary.
Purpose, meaning, and cosmic significance is overrated. This life is all we have: there's nothing after it. Just do what makes you happy.
Do I derive some sort of great spiritual meaning from working on side-projects, reading lots of books, playing tabletop RPGs, and planning to get a dog some day? No. But those things bring me satisfaction and happiness, and that's all that is necessary.
Purpose, meaning, and cosmic significance is overrated. This life is all we have: there's nothing after it. Just do what makes you happy.
Exactly. And when someone talks about this "purpose" I get a feeling they're trying to scam me. All I have are these little things in life that make me smile and feel good, today it was catching this funny little bug in my code, tomorrow it might be going for a run, on Saturday it may be a message from my mom, and that's all there is :)
I'm a religious person but I think I can abstract this so it doesn't require a religion.
I think your purpose is to overcome evil. Most of the evil that we have the ability to overcome is internal and if everyone did that the world would be a much better place.
In reading The Gulag Archipelago there is a part where the author has spent chapter after chapter describing the horrible conditions of the prison he is. It seems like a horrible place. A place where there can be no meaning, no hope for those inside it. Then he says this:
“Bless you, prison!”
I . . . have served enough time there.
I nourished my soul there, and I say without hesitation: “Bless you, prison, for having been in my life!
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justin-taylor/aleks...
You see he realized that prison had given him the humility to see the flaws in his own character and to deal with those flaws. He felt much better off having been through that and transformed by it.
Many of us try to find meaning in things that inspire us or make us feel good. But if we find meaning in the the things that transform us into something better we can find joy in even the most horrible circumstances. We can truly become someone better.
I think your purpose is to overcome evil. Most of the evil that we have the ability to overcome is internal and if everyone did that the world would be a much better place.
In reading The Gulag Archipelago there is a part where the author has spent chapter after chapter describing the horrible conditions of the prison he is. It seems like a horrible place. A place where there can be no meaning, no hope for those inside it. Then he says this:
“Bless you, prison!”
I . . . have served enough time there.
I nourished my soul there, and I say without hesitation: “Bless you, prison, for having been in my life!
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justin-taylor/aleks...
You see he realized that prison had given him the humility to see the flaws in his own character and to deal with those flaws. He felt much better off having been through that and transformed by it.
Many of us try to find meaning in things that inspire us or make us feel good. But if we find meaning in the the things that transform us into something better we can find joy in even the most horrible circumstances. We can truly become someone better.
Check out the book “So Good They Can’t Ignore You”, purpose is overrated, being a skilled professional is underrated.
I second this. However I'd like to note that in the later chapters, Cal Newport does develop the concept of 'mission' which has some overlap with the concept of purpose but is defined more constructively.
Purpose: Commit to something and stick to it.
We can easily wallow in a sea of possibility and never commit to anything, because whatever you commit to is at the expense of other things you could have done.
So we sit there considering and reconsidering the possibilities and looking for new ones. The implicit hope is that one will show up that is so much brighter than the rest that it’ll absolve us from the burden of commitment.
That’s a mirage. Decide what you want to be and commit to it.
We can easily wallow in a sea of possibility and never commit to anything, because whatever you commit to is at the expense of other things you could have done.
So we sit there considering and reconsidering the possibilities and looking for new ones. The implicit hope is that one will show up that is so much brighter than the rest that it’ll absolve us from the burden of commitment.
That’s a mirage. Decide what you want to be and commit to it.
PASSION:
1. "You don't find a purpose, you choose it" ~ anonymous
2. Please read the book "Be so good they can't ignore you" by Cal Newport. The world has bombarded us with the 'work on what you are passionate about and you'll never work a day' idea. They don't tell us what 'passion' is and how to 'develop' it. One should start to focus on their only/various interests. These slight interests are either innate or are a product of their environment. Either way, one should try to spend some time on them, get better. Then after reaching a certain skill level by incremental improvement and incremental +ve feedback, this interest will convert into a 'passion'.
---------------------------
MEANING:
1. Wacth Jordan Peterson's "Meaning of life" lecture on youtube.
2. To find meaning in your life (*existential crisis), all you need to do is consistently pick up any load/responsibility in life - raising kids, managing a team/company, volunteer work, open-source software etc. This will help you see yourself as a useful entity in your own eyes.
1. "You don't find a purpose, you choose it" ~ anonymous
2. Please read the book "Be so good they can't ignore you" by Cal Newport. The world has bombarded us with the 'work on what you are passionate about and you'll never work a day' idea. They don't tell us what 'passion' is and how to 'develop' it. One should start to focus on their only/various interests. These slight interests are either innate or are a product of their environment. Either way, one should try to spend some time on them, get better. Then after reaching a certain skill level by incremental improvement and incremental +ve feedback, this interest will convert into a 'passion'.
---------------------------
MEANING:
1. Wacth Jordan Peterson's "Meaning of life" lecture on youtube.
2. To find meaning in your life (*existential crisis), all you need to do is consistently pick up any load/responsibility in life - raising kids, managing a team/company, volunteer work, open-source software etc. This will help you see yourself as a useful entity in your own eyes.
> Ok, I buy this, however, what is this "purpose/ meaning/ calling/ value" thing? What does it mean, really? How do I find mine?
Human purpose is ultimately rooted in human nature and its ends. We often seem to think that either purpose is something arbitrary in relation to us or that there is some secret purpose within us that we must discover. Both fall into extremes because on the one hand, human nature determines what is valuable activity, and on the other hand, the concrete ends we engage in are various and open ended, even though they are determinations of what holds generally. Happiness is ultimately rooted in the fulfillment of human nature and its end(s), and (we cannot attain perfect fulfillment in this life), at the very least, avoiding doing things which are directly opposed to our natures.
So I would begin by trying to understand human beings by way of natural law. You'll see virtue come up in this context. The virtues are like a ladder of habits (in the sense of habitus) that lead to happiness.
Given that, I think the grand question of "finding" your purpose starts to look a bit uninteresting. Certainly, we might say some people perceive a calling, but I would be very careful not to construe this in emotional terms. All the pop culture talk about "following your passions" is absolutely disastrous. You don't follow your passions, you follow reason. This is not to say the two must be in opposition, only that the passions are often treated with an absurd reverence, as if they were some great source of hidden wisdom or "true identity".
So I wouldn't worry so much about "finding" this grand purpose of yours. If you live virtuously, you will know how to respond to the world.
Human purpose is ultimately rooted in human nature and its ends. We often seem to think that either purpose is something arbitrary in relation to us or that there is some secret purpose within us that we must discover. Both fall into extremes because on the one hand, human nature determines what is valuable activity, and on the other hand, the concrete ends we engage in are various and open ended, even though they are determinations of what holds generally. Happiness is ultimately rooted in the fulfillment of human nature and its end(s), and (we cannot attain perfect fulfillment in this life), at the very least, avoiding doing things which are directly opposed to our natures.
So I would begin by trying to understand human beings by way of natural law. You'll see virtue come up in this context. The virtues are like a ladder of habits (in the sense of habitus) that lead to happiness.
Given that, I think the grand question of "finding" your purpose starts to look a bit uninteresting. Certainly, we might say some people perceive a calling, but I would be very careful not to construe this in emotional terms. All the pop culture talk about "following your passions" is absolutely disastrous. You don't follow your passions, you follow reason. This is not to say the two must be in opposition, only that the passions are often treated with an absurd reverence, as if they were some great source of hidden wisdom or "true identity".
So I wouldn't worry so much about "finding" this grand purpose of yours. If you live virtuously, you will know how to respond to the world.
There are also people without purpose who have high happiness and well being. And even if people who happen to have purpose are often happier, it does not follow that the pursuit of purpose will lead to happiness for you.
Why do you see having purpose in particular as your vehicle to obtain happiness and well being? Answering that question (for yourself) may give you some clues as to the direction your life should take.
Why do you see having purpose in particular as your vehicle to obtain happiness and well being? Answering that question (for yourself) may give you some clues as to the direction your life should take.
My attitude is it (meaning) is entirely sensory, not rationalized, and elicited through action. Bias, then, towards action. There's also no reason to believe that some obscure as-of-yet discovered vocation is the only thing that could grant meaning. Realistically, you could find all sorts of jobs meaningful. If you don't have a peculiar obsession, so be it. I dislike the term purpose.
Dull work with lots of lulls, or lots of passive consumption, or too little social contact won't usually equate to a sense of meaning. And real-world impact of your work won't really matter here, because that is just an abstraction. If you find "flow" in work, you'll feel what people peg as sense of meaning. You might also from receiving gratitude in-person for your help - it feels good. We're social beings. If you've ever tried the self-shaming route of rationalizing that you "ought" to be content with your lot, you'll know from experience that does not stick. That is not how our monkey brains work. If something feels bad, that's symptomatic.
Dull work with lots of lulls, or lots of passive consumption, or too little social contact won't usually equate to a sense of meaning. And real-world impact of your work won't really matter here, because that is just an abstraction. If you find "flow" in work, you'll feel what people peg as sense of meaning. You might also from receiving gratitude in-person for your help - it feels good. We're social beings. If you've ever tried the self-shaming route of rationalizing that you "ought" to be content with your lot, you'll know from experience that does not stick. That is not how our monkey brains work. If something feels bad, that's symptomatic.
I used to have a list of almost a dozen values that I thought were great, but weren't truly meaningful to me. I didn't fully live into them and there were too many to do that practically anyway.
At some point I came across this exercise for getting to core values which involves figuring out your "origin story". The idea is that you don't choose your values but that you recognize them. It involves reflecting back on some of your earliest, most salient memories, especially as a child. What can you learn from those memories and how have they shaped who you are today?
For me I looked back and remembered some core memories that reminded me that I've always wanted to be a helper. Somewhere along the way I became jaded and lost touch with it. Today I hold just two values as primary: Connection and Compassion. I see my purpose as to live into these as fully as I can.
(I don't remember where I found the exercise but if you search "origin story values exercise" you'll find a few variations)
At some point I came across this exercise for getting to core values which involves figuring out your "origin story". The idea is that you don't choose your values but that you recognize them. It involves reflecting back on some of your earliest, most salient memories, especially as a child. What can you learn from those memories and how have they shaped who you are today?
For me I looked back and remembered some core memories that reminded me that I've always wanted to be a helper. Somewhere along the way I became jaded and lost touch with it. Today I hold just two values as primary: Connection and Compassion. I see my purpose as to live into these as fully as I can.
(I don't remember where I found the exercise but if you search "origin story values exercise" you'll find a few variations)
This article about fundamental principles thinking and just asking ”why?” until you’re at the base of the tree was super helpful for me in finding my fundamental driving force. https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/11/the-cook-and-the-chef-musks-s...
I suggest that you create a purpose for your life, rather than finding it.
This is going to be downvoted on HN..
We are religious being. Our religion is what connect us together and what made our society possible.
Disconnecting of religious leave us aimless, meaningless. You become materialist, nihilist.
Some will chase money or success and will keep them going for a while, but that’s not a good goal. You might reach your FU money and then realise that after a while you are still aimless and fun isn’t fun anymore.
So my atheist understanding of our ’God’ is that our goal should always be truth and love.
Aim toward the best thing you can toward truth and love and see where it lead. Money can be useful, is needed to move forward but it’s not the goal in itself. The same is true of compassion, it sound good and is important, but can never take the place of truth (the current social justice propaganda is a good example)
These things are called "false idols" thing we chase to our own detriment.
Your purpose is thus to orient yourself toward the highest goal of truth and love you can imagine at the moment. Say your truth even if it cost you your job (without being stupid), that should be a adventure in itself.
Maybe your purpose today will be to help someone you know, or to clean something, or to make the best software for someone, or to make someone smile with a good joke on a rainy day. Or it come become a big plan to start a company, etc.
It’s not one thing or a material thing, it’s the alignment of your being toward truth and love as long as possible, as often as possible. It’s a never ending journey, you can always be a bit better tomorrow.
Pray, ask the questions you have in your mind. Listen to the answer that come and see where it lead you. rince, repeat. Start reading the bible (it surprised me how good it is)
We are religious being. Our religion is what connect us together and what made our society possible.
Disconnecting of religious leave us aimless, meaningless. You become materialist, nihilist.
Some will chase money or success and will keep them going for a while, but that’s not a good goal. You might reach your FU money and then realise that after a while you are still aimless and fun isn’t fun anymore.
So my atheist understanding of our ’God’ is that our goal should always be truth and love.
Aim toward the best thing you can toward truth and love and see where it lead. Money can be useful, is needed to move forward but it’s not the goal in itself. The same is true of compassion, it sound good and is important, but can never take the place of truth (the current social justice propaganda is a good example)
These things are called "false idols" thing we chase to our own detriment.
Your purpose is thus to orient yourself toward the highest goal of truth and love you can imagine at the moment. Say your truth even if it cost you your job (without being stupid), that should be a adventure in itself.
Maybe your purpose today will be to help someone you know, or to clean something, or to make the best software for someone, or to make someone smile with a good joke on a rainy day. Or it come become a big plan to start a company, etc.
It’s not one thing or a material thing, it’s the alignment of your being toward truth and love as long as possible, as often as possible. It’s a never ending journey, you can always be a bit better tomorrow.
Pray, ask the questions you have in your mind. Listen to the answer that come and see where it lead you. rince, repeat. Start reading the bible (it surprised me how good it is)
You don't, you design it. A popular book on this topic: https://designingyour.life/the-book/
I haven't read that book, but yes exactly! I wish I had the ability to remove "find your purpose" from our language. You can't find a purpose or passion lying around. You can't take someone else's. You have to build it up yourself slowly over time.
I started writing code when I was young, and I decided early to be a software engineer early in my life. I often heard comments like "wow you found your passion so young!" I feel like that "found" thinking ignores all the time spent coding and messing around on computers. Also all the things I didn't do with that time. Kids probably have a few cheat codes, but I think most adults can set aside time and plan to do the same types of things.
At the end of the day, I think building a passion is an investment in yourself. It's something that does cost a lot of time and effort. It's worth searching around and trying new things, but don't let yourself just flip through a "purposes" list. Trust yourself to build a purpose worth your time.
I started writing code when I was young, and I decided early to be a software engineer early in my life. I often heard comments like "wow you found your passion so young!" I feel like that "found" thinking ignores all the time spent coding and messing around on computers. Also all the things I didn't do with that time. Kids probably have a few cheat codes, but I think most adults can set aside time and plan to do the same types of things.
At the end of the day, I think building a passion is an investment in yourself. It's something that does cost a lot of time and effort. It's worth searching around and trying new things, but don't let yourself just flip through a "purposes" list. Trust yourself to build a purpose worth your time.
In broad strokes:
It's already made plain how to live, what to do, what the most high is looking for in men and women.
It’s quite simple: Do what is fair and just to your neighbor, be compassionate and loyal in your love, And don’t take yourself too seriously.
But don't get too in your head about comparing your work to others:
I want you to think about how all this makes you more significant, not less. A body isn’t just a single part blown up into something huge. It’s all the different-but-similar parts arranged and functioning together. If Foot said, “I’m not elegant like Hand, embellished with rings; I guess I don’t belong to this body,” would that make it so? If Ear said, “I’m not beautiful like Eye, transparent and expressive; I don’t deserve a place on the head,” would you want to remove it from the body? If the body was all eye, how could it hear? If all ear, how could it smell?
Try to build, not tear down. And whatever gets in the way of the work, is the work.
It's already made plain how to live, what to do, what the most high is looking for in men and women.
It’s quite simple: Do what is fair and just to your neighbor, be compassionate and loyal in your love, And don’t take yourself too seriously.
But don't get too in your head about comparing your work to others:
I want you to think about how all this makes you more significant, not less. A body isn’t just a single part blown up into something huge. It’s all the different-but-similar parts arranged and functioning together. If Foot said, “I’m not elegant like Hand, embellished with rings; I guess I don’t belong to this body,” would that make it so? If Ear said, “I’m not beautiful like Eye, transparent and expressive; I don’t deserve a place on the head,” would you want to remove it from the body? If the body was all eye, how could it hear? If all ear, how could it smell?
Try to build, not tear down. And whatever gets in the way of the work, is the work.
I like this passage from "Demian" by Herman Hesse:
And at this point I felt the truth burning within me like a sharp flame, that there was some role for everybody but it was not one which he himself could choose, re-cast and regulate to his own liking. One had no right to want new gods, no right at all to want to give the world anything of that sort! There was but one duty for a grown man; it was to seek the way to himself, to become resolute within, to grope his way forward wherever that might lead him. The discovery shook me profoundly; it was the fruit of this experience. I had often toyed with pictures of the future, dreamed of roles which might be assigned to me --- as a poet, maybe, or prophet or painter or kindred vocation.
All that was futile. I was not there to write poetry, to preach or paint; neither I nor any other man was there for that purpose. They were only incidental things. There was only one true vocation for everybody - to find the way to himself.
He might end as poet, lunatic, prophet or criminal - that was not his affair; ultimately it was of no account. His affair was to discover his own destiny, not something of his own choosing, and live it out wholly and resolutely within himself.
Anything else was merely a half life, an attempt at evasion, an escape into the ideals of the masses, complacency and fear of his inner soul. The new picture rose before me, sacred and awe-inspiring, a hundred times glimpsed, possibly often expressed and now experienced for the first time.
I was an experiment on the part of nature, a 'throw' into the unknown, perhaps for some new purpose, perhaps for nothing and my only vocation was to allow this 'throw' to work itself out in my inner most being, feel its will within me and make it wholly mine. That or nothing!
And at this point I felt the truth burning within me like a sharp flame, that there was some role for everybody but it was not one which he himself could choose, re-cast and regulate to his own liking. One had no right to want new gods, no right at all to want to give the world anything of that sort! There was but one duty for a grown man; it was to seek the way to himself, to become resolute within, to grope his way forward wherever that might lead him. The discovery shook me profoundly; it was the fruit of this experience. I had often toyed with pictures of the future, dreamed of roles which might be assigned to me --- as a poet, maybe, or prophet or painter or kindred vocation.
All that was futile. I was not there to write poetry, to preach or paint; neither I nor any other man was there for that purpose. They were only incidental things. There was only one true vocation for everybody - to find the way to himself.
He might end as poet, lunatic, prophet or criminal - that was not his affair; ultimately it was of no account. His affair was to discover his own destiny, not something of his own choosing, and live it out wholly and resolutely within himself.
Anything else was merely a half life, an attempt at evasion, an escape into the ideals of the masses, complacency and fear of his inner soul. The new picture rose before me, sacred and awe-inspiring, a hundred times glimpsed, possibly often expressed and now experienced for the first time.
I was an experiment on the part of nature, a 'throw' into the unknown, perhaps for some new purpose, perhaps for nothing and my only vocation was to allow this 'throw' to work itself out in my inner most being, feel its will within me and make it wholly mine. That or nothing!
The assigning of purpose to a human life is some unholy paradoxical combination of a vast flattering overestimation of its worth, on the one hand, and a blasphemous insulting affront against its dignity on the other. The purpose of life is life itself, that's why it's an insult to demand some other purpose. And by the same token, none of us has the kind of purpose your mind is demanding, that's why it's flattery. If you don't have a sense of purpose, don't worry about it, that's how it is for most people. Try a technique from acting improvisation: say an emphatic yes to the next thing that comes along. Lean into it. Does it lead somewhere good? Keep doing it! Does it lead somewhere bad? Change direction! Repeat. Construct the grand narrative later, as a retrospective.
A calling is something you hear. If you can't hear it, it isn't calling. You may never hear it. It might come tomorrow. You can't find it. It will find you.
Serious comment, no judgment meant or implied to you or others:
As one who grew up without the usual structures of family or cultural supports, and who banged up against cultural guardrails more than a few times, consider the idea that books may help and the chosen author's angle on the question of purpose still boils down to what are you going to do today?
If you can at least mentally strip away the comforts of your life, what will you do to survive, assuming you want to succeed (on your terms, not the world's) at something that gets you up in the morning? You'll probably begin to ask yourself what am I good at, what do I want to learn, how can I learn it? Reality is a constraint, and you have to figure that out.
This may not work for people in certain mental states or stages in life, but I hope this helps.
If you can at least mentally strip away the comforts of your life, what will you do to survive, assuming you want to succeed (on your terms, not the world's) at something that gets you up in the morning? You'll probably begin to ask yourself what am I good at, what do I want to learn, how can I learn it? Reality is a constraint, and you have to figure that out.
This may not work for people in certain mental states or stages in life, but I hope this helps.
"Ok, I buy this, however, what is this "purpose/ meaning/ calling/ value" thing? What does it mean, really? How do I find mine?"
You need to be responsible for something. A dog. A kid. A dying mom. A goldfish. Without that yes, life just moves along with no purpose.
You need to be responsible for something. A dog. A kid. A dying mom. A goldfish. Without that yes, life just moves along with no purpose.
For me, I found my core principles through art (specifically music) and introspection. And then I waited my entire career to realize those principles had also been my calling / purpose.
I have always listened to a LOT of music. One lyric caught my attention when I was in college... "I crucified my hate and held the world within my hand." I thought about that lyric deeply and why it was there. That led to an experiment where I decided not to use the word "hate" for a year. It was hard at first, but as time went by I found that looking for other ways to express issues was transforming my thinking - language can be quite powerful that way.
After that year, I decided to continue not to use that word towards living beings. I might use it towards their actions, but not towards them. With reflection, I realized that a corollary was to use love as a motivation in everything I do - to try hard to find some amount of love for everyone I interact with. It made a lot of my life, especially in hard times, make more sense.
Now it's ~35 years since the initial experiment and I'm retired. I continue to mentor a number of people that I worked with, and others that they now work with (for pleasure, I don't take money). And when things like the current tech layoffs happen, many of them and others come to me for support and contextualization. Only now do I realize that this focus on love has been my purpose for nearly my entire adult life. These people see it (probably intuitively rather than explicitly) and come to me when they struggle to find productive ways to think about hard things in life.
Looking back, it defined me as a leader toward the end of my career. As I was retiring, a manager that I had advocated for thanked me for "leading the org from a place of love". I had avoided using the word "love" in that context for fear of misunderstanding, replacing it with components of love like caring / compassion / supporting / understanding / nurturing etc., but it was always an underlying motivation. It was wonderful that she could see the root of it all. And it was funny that I didn't realize it was my calling until later.
I have always listened to a LOT of music. One lyric caught my attention when I was in college... "I crucified my hate and held the world within my hand." I thought about that lyric deeply and why it was there. That led to an experiment where I decided not to use the word "hate" for a year. It was hard at first, but as time went by I found that looking for other ways to express issues was transforming my thinking - language can be quite powerful that way.
After that year, I decided to continue not to use that word towards living beings. I might use it towards their actions, but not towards them. With reflection, I realized that a corollary was to use love as a motivation in everything I do - to try hard to find some amount of love for everyone I interact with. It made a lot of my life, especially in hard times, make more sense.
Now it's ~35 years since the initial experiment and I'm retired. I continue to mentor a number of people that I worked with, and others that they now work with (for pleasure, I don't take money). And when things like the current tech layoffs happen, many of them and others come to me for support and contextualization. Only now do I realize that this focus on love has been my purpose for nearly my entire adult life. These people see it (probably intuitively rather than explicitly) and come to me when they struggle to find productive ways to think about hard things in life.
Looking back, it defined me as a leader toward the end of my career. As I was retiring, a manager that I had advocated for thanked me for "leading the org from a place of love". I had avoided using the word "love" in that context for fear of misunderstanding, replacing it with components of love like caring / compassion / supporting / understanding / nurturing etc., but it was always an underlying motivation. It was wonderful that she could see the root of it all. And it was funny that I didn't realize it was my calling until later.
You don't find it, you create it. Life is a blank page to be written on, not a puzzle to work out. Choose the best purpose you can imagine right now.
Start by asking yourself what you like! Then dig into that. Don't consume passively, consume actively. When you see something that makes you feel joy, explore why. Explore what part of the thing you saw made something light up in you.
If this makes sense to you, you can explore Visa's writing. I used to neglect taste and aesthetics. I get that you're asking for purpose. But those are related. In order to find your purpose, you must know what you value, and what you like. Visa has an angle on taste that works for me.
https://mobile.twitter.com/visakanv/status/13309873667150643...
If this makes sense to you, you can explore Visa's writing. I used to neglect taste and aesthetics. I get that you're asking for purpose. But those are related. In order to find your purpose, you must know what you value, and what you like. Visa has an angle on taste that works for me.
https://mobile.twitter.com/visakanv/status/13309873667150643...
Maybe start with a values sorting activity and go from there. No one else can identify your purpose but you. And in truth, purpose is often chosen. Don’t be afraid to try a few on, and keep trying until you find something that works for you, helps you be your best self, and is consistent with your values.
There are fun, well-designs versions on Amazon, but you can always just print or write your own cards for the activity. https://casaa.unm.edu/inst/Personal%20Values%20Card%20Sort.p...
Most of the values sound good on paper, so it is helpful to set a limit to force you to prioritize.
There are fun, well-designs versions on Amazon, but you can always just print or write your own cards for the activity. https://casaa.unm.edu/inst/Personal%20Values%20Card%20Sort.p...
Most of the values sound good on paper, so it is helpful to set a limit to force you to prioritize.
I think making the world a better place is probably the best thing one can be doing with their lives.
Thankfully there are great resources that can help; my top recommendation is 80,000 Hours - named after the roughly 80,000 hours that one will spend in their lives working. Given how much time that is, it's worth doing something good with it.
https://80000hours.org/
Following your passion may not be the best way to go - https://80000hours.org/articles/dont-follow-your-passion/
Thankfully there are great resources that can help; my top recommendation is 80,000 Hours - named after the roughly 80,000 hours that one will spend in their lives working. Given how much time that is, it's worth doing something good with it.
https://80000hours.org/
Following your passion may not be the best way to go - https://80000hours.org/articles/dont-follow-your-passion/
One might view purpose as a property that every person has. It is a field that must be filled. Having an unfilled purpose field results in a feeling of emptiness which is unpleasant resulting in motivation to escape that feeling by finding meaning.
This is a poor model.
Viktor Frankl's man's search for meaning said that purpose is to live life as if every moment had purpose. At first I found that tautological and meaningless. Running on empty is a book that addresses this topic that I found very relevant and clarifying. It is a book about childhood emotional neglect. Effectively your parents probably didn't recognize your emotions and teach you how to handle them, they might not have seen you. This can result in extreme emotional repression, complete inability to manage yourself, counter dependence (being extremely against depending on anyone for anything), the feeling that if someone knew you they wouldn't like you, and a host of other problems. When you have blunted emotions, life feels empty. This emptiness is then interpreted as lack of purpose.
So you are asking a question that protects your ego. "Finding meaning" is the ego protecting version of "feeling less empty." Feeling empty is the result of blunted emotions. Blunted emotions are a result of lessons you didn't learn during childhood (that your parents might not have learned either).
This brings us back to Viktor Frankl's living every moment as if it had purpose. Living every moment as if it has purpose is equivalent to ensuring every moment is not empty which is equivalent to living a life for which the time you spend results in feeling. If you aren't consciously aware of your feelings (if your EQ is not high) or you are not able to manipulate them, it makes it really hard to understand what it means to be in search of feeling which makes it hard to grok what these "normal" people are trying to communicate when they say something like "live every moment as if it has purpose."
Feeling is purpose. Lack of purpose is lack of feelings -> lack of feelings is lack of purpose.
So what makes you feel?
This is solidly in the territory of a therapy level problem because if your emotions are blunted there is something you don't know you don't know because there is a host of things missing from your childhood. There are things that didn't happen as opposed to things that happened that were bad.
Running on empty was a pretty good book. It is worth a read to see if it resonates with you.
This is a poor model.
Viktor Frankl's man's search for meaning said that purpose is to live life as if every moment had purpose. At first I found that tautological and meaningless. Running on empty is a book that addresses this topic that I found very relevant and clarifying. It is a book about childhood emotional neglect. Effectively your parents probably didn't recognize your emotions and teach you how to handle them, they might not have seen you. This can result in extreme emotional repression, complete inability to manage yourself, counter dependence (being extremely against depending on anyone for anything), the feeling that if someone knew you they wouldn't like you, and a host of other problems. When you have blunted emotions, life feels empty. This emptiness is then interpreted as lack of purpose.
So you are asking a question that protects your ego. "Finding meaning" is the ego protecting version of "feeling less empty." Feeling empty is the result of blunted emotions. Blunted emotions are a result of lessons you didn't learn during childhood (that your parents might not have learned either).
This brings us back to Viktor Frankl's living every moment as if it had purpose. Living every moment as if it has purpose is equivalent to ensuring every moment is not empty which is equivalent to living a life for which the time you spend results in feeling. If you aren't consciously aware of your feelings (if your EQ is not high) or you are not able to manipulate them, it makes it really hard to understand what it means to be in search of feeling which makes it hard to grok what these "normal" people are trying to communicate when they say something like "live every moment as if it has purpose."
Feeling is purpose. Lack of purpose is lack of feelings -> lack of feelings is lack of purpose.
So what makes you feel?
This is solidly in the territory of a therapy level problem because if your emotions are blunted there is something you don't know you don't know because there is a host of things missing from your childhood. There are things that didn't happen as opposed to things that happened that were bad.
Running on empty was a pretty good book. It is worth a read to see if it resonates with you.
Wow, this one was different. Thanks. Will look.
Live life, encounter problems, try to solve problems.
If you think you can do it better to solve a problem than what you have found, then you have discovered a possible purpose.
If you still struggle, maybe read Dice Man, a book about contrived purpose.
If you think you can do it better to solve a problem than what you have found, then you have discovered a possible purpose.
If you still struggle, maybe read Dice Man, a book about contrived purpose.
"How do I find my “purpose”?"
You don't. Nobody has a purpose. Life is only what you make it, within the confines of the circumstances. If you want to assign a purpose, you can, but that's just bias or artificial labels.
You don't. Nobody has a purpose. Life is only what you make it, within the confines of the circumstances. If you want to assign a purpose, you can, but that's just bias or artificial labels.
First world problems.
maybe you find a greater purpose, maybe you don't.
But a purpose can be just "breathe, eat, crap until you die." That's a purpose. This is the purpose of most people in the world. You have someone who didn't graduate from high school and not Einstein, they might work as a convenience store clerk for their entire life. Nothing wrong with that at all, but it's not like it is Norman Borlaug, whose Green Revolution fed billions of people and kept them from starving to death.
All this "find your purpose" stuff just puts a lot of unwarrented pressure on peole and if you can't find one, it is a negative. It won't give you higher happiness or well-being. It will just be a massive frustration and make your life miserable. I guess I'd be more of the mindfulness/live-in-the-moment kind of person.
I have no life purpose or meaning of life. I'm like everyone else, though. Mostly average days, some great days, some shit days. The gaussian distribution, right? I don't think that people who have a "purpose" in life live every day as a 12 hour orgasm. Everyone has mostly average days, some great, some bad.
As far as happiness goes, at least 50% of it is genetic. If you have shitty genetics and have unhappy genes, even if you are happy with the other 50%, you'll never be as happy or at peace as someone with happy genetics. Never. No higher purpose will make someone with unhappy genetics as happy as someone with happy genetics.
So my point would be to not worry about it. Do the best you can do. Plan where you can. Do what you can. Get your pleasures where you can. Before we are turned into dirt.
Maybe take 3 entire hours and listen to Thích Nhất Hạnh's Peace Is Every Step: The Path of Mindfulness in Everyday Life
maybe you find a greater purpose, maybe you don't.
But a purpose can be just "breathe, eat, crap until you die." That's a purpose. This is the purpose of most people in the world. You have someone who didn't graduate from high school and not Einstein, they might work as a convenience store clerk for their entire life. Nothing wrong with that at all, but it's not like it is Norman Borlaug, whose Green Revolution fed billions of people and kept them from starving to death.
All this "find your purpose" stuff just puts a lot of unwarrented pressure on peole and if you can't find one, it is a negative. It won't give you higher happiness or well-being. It will just be a massive frustration and make your life miserable. I guess I'd be more of the mindfulness/live-in-the-moment kind of person.
I have no life purpose or meaning of life. I'm like everyone else, though. Mostly average days, some great days, some shit days. The gaussian distribution, right? I don't think that people who have a "purpose" in life live every day as a 12 hour orgasm. Everyone has mostly average days, some great, some bad.
As far as happiness goes, at least 50% of it is genetic. If you have shitty genetics and have unhappy genes, even if you are happy with the other 50%, you'll never be as happy or at peace as someone with happy genetics. Never. No higher purpose will make someone with unhappy genetics as happy as someone with happy genetics.
So my point would be to not worry about it. Do the best you can do. Plan where you can. Do what you can. Get your pleasures where you can. Before we are turned into dirt.
Maybe take 3 entire hours and listen to Thích Nhất Hạnh's Peace Is Every Step: The Path of Mindfulness in Everyday Life
[deleted]
Counter argument: Only insane people have purpose…
What is the Purpose of Life? - Sadhguru
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ7ZvPghdy8
What is the Purpose of Life? - Sadhguru
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ7ZvPghdy8
Research suggests otherwise.
I strongly agree with the importance of your question! It affects so many things, like prioritizing, finding peace etc.
I suggest A) if you are religious, to come to know God and follow His plan, and B) if not, consider working to elevate mankind by honesty, the Golden Rule, learning and service, to help by kind example and teaching and work so we all reach some better state.
I have written much more at my tech-simple web site (in profile, suggestions welcome; I also tried to write how I know what I know).
I suggest A) if you are religious, to come to know God and follow His plan, and B) if not, consider working to elevate mankind by honesty, the Golden Rule, learning and service, to help by kind example and teaching and work so we all reach some better state.
I have written much more at my tech-simple web site (in profile, suggestions welcome; I also tried to write how I know what I know).
From my own search on this topic:
Science can only do so much with the 'internal' meaning. All people I've read are inadequate or point to religion.
Religions, across the board, sure seems to be solely focused on purpose and meaning.
If you want purpose outside yourself, I'd look to a religion or a group that functions similarly. I dug Alan Watts and the like for awhile. More recently have liked St Augustine and other apologetics.
I know the concept religion causes raised flags but I do suggest that you are least give it an open mind while you search.
Science can only do so much with the 'internal' meaning. All people I've read are inadequate or point to religion.
Religions, across the board, sure seems to be solely focused on purpose and meaning.
If you want purpose outside yourself, I'd look to a religion or a group that functions similarly. I dug Alan Watts and the like for awhile. More recently have liked St Augustine and other apologetics.
I know the concept religion causes raised flags but I do suggest that you are least give it an open mind while you search.
As an atheist, I obviously disagree. Purpose and meaning have to be based in truth, scientific truth, if you will. Otherwise, you run the risk of harming someone. Dogmatic belief systems based on revelation are risky at best.
I am glad you found meaning in science and facts! Maybe I didn't read the right scientists.
I couldn't get past what Plato would call 'shadows on a cave wall' when it comes to finding 'truth' but once again, I am probably not reading the right people or the 'right works'. If you have anything you'd recommend I'd love to read it.
I couldn't get past what Plato would call 'shadows on a cave wall' when it comes to finding 'truth' but once again, I am probably not reading the right people or the 'right works'. If you have anything you'd recommend I'd love to read it.
> I am glad you found meaning in science and facts!
I did not say that. I think I said purpose and meaning need to be grounded in facts / science and should not be derived from belief systems based on "revelation" and other collective delusions.
I did not say that. I think I said purpose and meaning need to be grounded in facts / science and should not be derived from belief systems based on "revelation" and other collective delusions.
I apologize for misunderstanding your statement. Thank you for clarifying! I'd still be interested in who you read that have lead you to this if you're interested in sharing more.
Sam Harris is the one who comes closest to my world view and has shaped it quite a bit. He is one of the few who is careful with his words and emotions when articulating his arguments.
That's fair, and what little I've come across seems to agree.
>There are plenty of studies that show that having a "purpose" and working after it is correlated with higher happiness or well being. "Purpose" is vague enough, so to make things worse I am going to conflate it with "life meaning", "calling" or "personal values".
Some subjective sense being correlated with blah blah blah doesn't mean any such thing objectively exists. It doesn't. You have no purpose. Nobody designed you. You're free.
Some subjective sense being correlated with blah blah blah doesn't mean any such thing objectively exists. It doesn't. You have no purpose. Nobody designed you. You're free.
Why, I agree that there's no "externally designed" purpose, it does exist if people think it does (to them). It may be just "stuff I like doing". That's why I am asking here.
Try new things, preferably outside and with others
https://www.bluezones.com/1-blue-zones-life-why-what-where-w... > https://www.bluezones.com/2016/11/power-9/
This works: Imagine your purpose as the centre of a sphere bounded by a perimeter representing the limits of the experiences which you want in your life. Spend as long as is necessary testing the bounds of the sphere in every direction.
Try loads of things, especially bonkers ones which might seem counter to your nature. Find where those boundaries lie, and then identify your purpose in the middle of it all.
The trouble is you are using the word "my". It's only when you lose yourself in someone else (or something else) that you find yourself.
Do lots of things that you find interesting. With any hope you will naturally gravitate towards something (or things) that you enjoy and look forward to.
I have been a web developer since the late 90s. In the last few years, I’ve moved somewhat into shooting travel content - getting paid to go on adventures. It happened after I turned 40 and I wouldn’t have seen it coming even just a year prior.
I have been a web developer since the late 90s. In the last few years, I’ve moved somewhat into shooting travel content - getting paid to go on adventures. It happened after I turned 40 and I wouldn’t have seen it coming even just a year prior.
In my experience, finding purpose is not an easy process, but it is at least a simple one to start.
Personal values are the things you care about. Going through a list of core values[0] and rating them on a 1–5 scale should give clarify on what really matters to you, so you can cleave away the rest. (I’ve also found thinking about conflict in terms of values to be incredibly helpful; when someone is upset about something, and it’s not clear why, my experience has been that it’s because one of their values are being violated.)
Personal values shift somewhat over time (e.g. a financial windfall may make wealth feel less important; having fewer opportunities to meet people may make relationships feel more important), but you’re likely to find that you have a particularly strong affinity to a few key values that don’t really change over time. Using those as a compass, you can find the ‘right’ activities for you by asking whether or not they’re in line with your key values. By doing this, you’re able to live a life that feels more fulfilling.
Once you’ve done this, there will probably be various things that come up where you find yourself uncertain or still not quite like you know what your purpose is, but it is hopefully enough to get going on the right path. Books providing an overview of all the different philosophies and their evolution over time might be interesting too to pick one of those that feels most right for your life. Good luck!
[0] There are a nearly infinite number of these on the internet. I don’t know of any one in particular that’s especially good. https://www.qualitycharters.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/H... is one option that came up for me that seems reasonable.
Personal values are the things you care about. Going through a list of core values[0] and rating them on a 1–5 scale should give clarify on what really matters to you, so you can cleave away the rest. (I’ve also found thinking about conflict in terms of values to be incredibly helpful; when someone is upset about something, and it’s not clear why, my experience has been that it’s because one of their values are being violated.)
Personal values shift somewhat over time (e.g. a financial windfall may make wealth feel less important; having fewer opportunities to meet people may make relationships feel more important), but you’re likely to find that you have a particularly strong affinity to a few key values that don’t really change over time. Using those as a compass, you can find the ‘right’ activities for you by asking whether or not they’re in line with your key values. By doing this, you’re able to live a life that feels more fulfilling.
Once you’ve done this, there will probably be various things that come up where you find yourself uncertain or still not quite like you know what your purpose is, but it is hopefully enough to get going on the right path. Books providing an overview of all the different philosophies and their evolution over time might be interesting too to pick one of those that feels most right for your life. Good luck!
[0] There are a nearly infinite number of these on the internet. I don’t know of any one in particular that’s especially good. https://www.qualitycharters.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/H... is one option that came up for me that seems reasonable.
If you don't yet have a purpose, your purpose is to find your purpose.
This advice could make someone miserable.
You'll know it when you see it.
In the meantime, have fun, take care of those you care about, and try to leave your corner of the world better than the way you found it. Cultivate a skill you enjoy. Touch grass and talk to people without a technological intermediary. That's not a presumptuous insult to your lifestyle, we all have to keep that in mind.
In the meantime, have fun, take care of those you care about, and try to leave your corner of the world better than the way you found it. Cultivate a skill you enjoy. Touch grass and talk to people without a technological intermediary. That's not a presumptuous insult to your lifestyle, we all have to keep that in mind.
I was thinking about this earlier this year and Cal Newports work helped me completely reframe the question. He discusses it in this video.
https://youtu.be/sjiP6sDyN-E
This in addition to some Stoic concepts (take care of things you can control, etc.) really helped me.
This in addition to some Stoic concepts (take care of things you can control, etc.) really helped me.
It is the same question as a "meaning of life" and the answer is the same. There's no predefined purpose/meaning, everyone just deciding it for themselves. It is also okay to revise and change your meaning with time passing and you yourself changing as a person.
I'm not sure if meaning is decision for yourself. We live in society, in relationships, not for yourself even though mainstream says opposite.
Sacrifice for others could be purpose of our mortal life.
Sacrifice for others could be purpose of our mortal life.
It could, but it not necessary have to. It a but depends on your "sociality" and reliance on other's opinion to define yourself.
From experience. Keep trying a lot of things, and keep introspecting and reflecting on things which have gone well, where interesting and felt less like work or effort; but where rather fun and enjoyable. Over time, you'll get a taste of what is purposeful, and then you keep going that way, while continuing to introspect and reflect.
Would you be interested in another opinion?
Purpose is the reason you had your own "hero" story
The unique road you had from your birth till now gave you the strengths and uniqueness to do something you are capable of
I work with engineers to find the balance, and to identify your own calling or purpose
should you be interested, my email is in my profile and we can schedule a 22 min call
Purpose is the reason you had your own "hero" story
The unique road you had from your birth till now gave you the strengths and uniqueness to do something you are capable of
I work with engineers to find the balance, and to identify your own calling or purpose
should you be interested, my email is in my profile and we can schedule a 22 min call
Life is what happens while you're waiting for it to start.
"Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans.”
– John Lennon.
– John Lennon.
Ray Bradbury:
"Life is trying things to see if they work."
"Life is trying things to see if they work."
> Ok, I buy this, however, what is this "purpose/ meaning/ calling/ value" thing? What does it mean, really? How do I find mine?
Have children.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEfJ8Q6keRk
Have children.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEfJ8Q6keRk
Maybe you'll enjoy a story of my own journey toward purpose that lead me to quit tech to become a therapist: http://glench.com/WhyIQuitTechAndBecameATherapist/
I really enjoyed this story and associated links, thank you
Don't think too hard about it. You can make many constant and/or changing purposes/reasons in life. What does your instincts tell you?
You can think about your most treasured memories or possessions or relationships and draw from them.
You can think about your most treasured memories or possessions or relationships and draw from them.
do drugs. travel alone. try lots of different kinds of jobs.
good luck.
I concur. A mushroom or LSD trip in nature is the quintessential human experience and has been immensely helpful even for those than never continued use of the substance.
> A mushroom or LSD trip in nature is the quintessential human experience and has been immensely helpful even for those than never continued use of the substance
I'd like to provide a counter-example - I've never had any benefits from using LSD or shrooms. The first time I was just tripping and deluded myself into thinking I've discovered something very profound, when in fact I was looking at some basic mathematics like Fibonacci sequence and thinking thoughts like "wow this is so much similar to real life, things repeat, but they also change". Every subsequent time has been progressively worse. One time I've spent an hour feeling most depressed I've ever felt in my life while crying in a fetal position. Last time I tried shrooms, every single noise was amplified 10x and scared the shit out of me. Afterwards, it just wasn't worth trying anymore.
My best friend from high school, a very bright and intelligent young man, met a girl who was very into psychedelics. They started doing them, had lots of fun. I did it with them a few times too, mostly had a good time. At first sight, one would say that the drugs actually benefited them, made them more "open". But after some time, they internalized the stance that they were "immune to bad things" that can happen from drug abuse. Few years later, the friend ran away from home, talking about how his parents are narcissistic and abusing him (which I'm fairly sure they weren't - he told me all about his relationship with parents for years, and there's never been a single sign of narcissism or abuse in his stories, and I've personally met them, hanged out at his house, they were always nice to us and never showed a single sign of any issues), cut off his fingers with a knife, and disappeared without a trace. To this day I haven't been able to find him anywhere online, and I only hope he's alive.
Psychedelics are fun, but to say that they're "immensely helpful even for those than never continued use of the substance" is a huge generalization, requires a lot more data than most people consider to gather, and is harmful as general advice.
A better advice would be something along the lines of "try it and see how it works for you, there's a chance it might help you out".
Also, if you're depressed or anxious, avoid psychedelics, especially heavy doses. At some point it's hard not to start thinking about the white elephant, and once you start falling in the abyss, there's not much that can pull you out.
I'd like to provide a counter-example - I've never had any benefits from using LSD or shrooms. The first time I was just tripping and deluded myself into thinking I've discovered something very profound, when in fact I was looking at some basic mathematics like Fibonacci sequence and thinking thoughts like "wow this is so much similar to real life, things repeat, but they also change". Every subsequent time has been progressively worse. One time I've spent an hour feeling most depressed I've ever felt in my life while crying in a fetal position. Last time I tried shrooms, every single noise was amplified 10x and scared the shit out of me. Afterwards, it just wasn't worth trying anymore.
My best friend from high school, a very bright and intelligent young man, met a girl who was very into psychedelics. They started doing them, had lots of fun. I did it with them a few times too, mostly had a good time. At first sight, one would say that the drugs actually benefited them, made them more "open". But after some time, they internalized the stance that they were "immune to bad things" that can happen from drug abuse. Few years later, the friend ran away from home, talking about how his parents are narcissistic and abusing him (which I'm fairly sure they weren't - he told me all about his relationship with parents for years, and there's never been a single sign of narcissism or abuse in his stories, and I've personally met them, hanged out at his house, they were always nice to us and never showed a single sign of any issues), cut off his fingers with a knife, and disappeared without a trace. To this day I haven't been able to find him anywhere online, and I only hope he's alive.
Psychedelics are fun, but to say that they're "immensely helpful even for those than never continued use of the substance" is a huge generalization, requires a lot more data than most people consider to gather, and is harmful as general advice.
A better advice would be something along the lines of "try it and see how it works for you, there's a chance it might help you out".
Also, if you're depressed or anxious, avoid psychedelics, especially heavy doses. At some point it's hard not to start thinking about the white elephant, and once you start falling in the abyss, there's not much that can pull you out.
It's alright. Definitely a cool experience. I wouldn't go so far as to claim it changed my life or even perspective. But it did push me to do some new things that I had been considering for a long time but slacking on.
The deepest, most significant, and heroic purpose to live one's life is taking on responsibility in service to others. Responsibility to the level where you can barely stand it. Then grow into it. Be more pro-social than you can imagine anyone being.
Finding the thing that drives you is probably not something you can study for. Try meditating. You might come to the conclusion that you just want to be a parent, or you maybe come to the conclusion that you want to make humans an interplanetary species.
You don't need a purpose. Find something you enjoy doing and then keep doing that.
Purpose for me is an actualized version of who I really am. Deep down there is a kernel of who you really are, and the goal is to tap into that identity as much as possible, and bring it out from within, into the deeper world around you.
It’s an experimental process. You can just try out all things people do for their purpose in life. You will intuitively know whether it’s working or not, when to move on, and what to try next. There’s no other way.
Related:
Ask HN: What's the Point of Life? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28866558 - October 14, 2021 (164 comments)
Ask HN: What's the Point of Life? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28866558 - October 14, 2021 (164 comments)
Recommend reading "Man's Search for Meaning" by Viktor Frankl.
Kurosawa film, "Ikiru" is worth a watch too
Otherwise I believe finding purpose is a deeply personal journey for every single person on the planet. Good luck!
Kurosawa film, "Ikiru" is worth a watch too
Otherwise I believe finding purpose is a deeply personal journey for every single person on the planet. Good luck!
you don’t have a purpose. though, i hope you see people that need help that you provide, then you provide it.
if humans have a purpose, it is to help other humans. silicon valley types do not agree with this in my experience (they seem to require profit potential to do anything it seems) and that is a cancerous view, so don’t adopt it.
just help people once you are in a position to do it without harming yourself. Not for profit; for free. because it is the right thing. if anyone has a purpose, that is it. all else is selfishness and greed.
if humans have a purpose, it is to help other humans. silicon valley types do not agree with this in my experience (they seem to require profit potential to do anything it seems) and that is a cancerous view, so don’t adopt it.
just help people once you are in a position to do it without harming yourself. Not for profit; for free. because it is the right thing. if anyone has a purpose, that is it. all else is selfishness and greed.
Values come first.
Purpose is then to live a life where you don’t compromise on your values.
Purpose is then to live a life where you don’t compromise on your values.
How do you decide which values to prioritize?
It can be hard. :)
I usually ask someone else who I trust to help me think through it.
For decisions that cannot be undone, usually, you one takes a leap of faith and goes for one value over the other.
I usually ask someone else who I trust to help me think through it.
For decisions that cannot be undone, usually, you one takes a leap of faith and goes for one value over the other.
The ones that hurt most when you compromise on them.
Try a bunch of different things. See which ones resonate. Talk to lots of people, learn about new things to try. Adjust your direction and try some more. Repeat as needed (or until death).
Values come first.
Then figure out what pain your willing to sustain.
Cannot recommend the Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck enough. Read it and you'll figure out your values and your purpose.
Cannot recommend the Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck enough. Read it and you'll figure out your values and your purpose.
If AvE is to be believed, there is no purpose. You choose a goal and you getting to that goal is your purpose. Choose unachievable goal, a moonshot, and you're set for life.
This a thousand times! Pithy and to the Point.
PS: What is "AvE"?
PS: What is "AvE"?
AvE (Arduino vs. Evil) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7RgtMGL7CA
> I think this is the kind of thing a fair amount of people here in HN have thought about, so I thought of asking.
It would truly surprise me if many people _actively_ find their purpose, and it would surprise me almost as much if most people find theirs at all. Mine, i discovered rather by accident while not thinking about it at all. Instead, it simply occurred to me one day that i had found, and been living, my purpose for a good long while before realizing it.
It would truly surprise me if many people _actively_ find their purpose, and it would surprise me almost as much if most people find theirs at all. Mine, i discovered rather by accident while not thinking about it at all. Instead, it simply occurred to me one day that i had found, and been living, my purpose for a good long while before realizing it.
Good to hear that. How did it happen? Any suggestions to move towards that direction? If you feel comfortable, you can share your purpose finding journey. And what happened next?
> How did it happen?
i was walking down the road doing something completely unrelated, not thinking about anything in particular, and it hit me.
> Any suggestions to move towards that direction?
If it doesn't happen on its own, it seems unlikely to me to ever happen. It's like falling in love: if you look for it, if you try to force it, it's not going to work.
> If you feel comfortable, you can share your purpose finding journey.
My purpose is not to change the world, but to support those who do. i've spent approximately a quarter of my life supporting/contributing to Richard Hipp's projects (mainly the Fossil SCM and, more recently, sqlite), and have found that niche to fit my purpose perfectly. It was, however, only about a year ago that i realized that that was my purpose.
> And what happened next?
Same thing as the day before: keep contributing.
i was walking down the road doing something completely unrelated, not thinking about anything in particular, and it hit me.
> Any suggestions to move towards that direction?
If it doesn't happen on its own, it seems unlikely to me to ever happen. It's like falling in love: if you look for it, if you try to force it, it's not going to work.
> If you feel comfortable, you can share your purpose finding journey.
My purpose is not to change the world, but to support those who do. i've spent approximately a quarter of my life supporting/contributing to Richard Hipp's projects (mainly the Fossil SCM and, more recently, sqlite), and have found that niche to fit my purpose perfectly. It was, however, only about a year ago that i realized that that was my purpose.
> And what happened next?
Same thing as the day before: keep contributing.
Ask an expert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkSFIWzi7aA
And another one: https://theoatmeal.com/comics/unhappy
what is this "purpose/ meaning/ calling/ value" thing?
It's actually a pretty interesting question, one that David Chapman tackles in his work-in-progress book Meaningness. In fact, the appetizer for the book tackles it starting from the idea of purpose: https://meaningness.com/an-appetizer-purpose
It's actually a pretty interesting question, one that David Chapman tackles in his work-in-progress book Meaningness. In fact, the appetizer for the book tackles it starting from the idea of purpose: https://meaningness.com/an-appetizer-purpose
I think that's personal for everyone. Just know you don't have to find "it." Try out a lot of things and see what works for you.
Kinda boomerish but a great one nonetheless - Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Pirsig .
I don't think that a purpose is particularly helpful for people. If you don't have one, then live your life as well as you can and you will see patterns emerge. Follow them, be yourself even when it is hard. Good luck!
I don't think that a purpose is particularly helpful for people. If you don't have one, then live your life as well as you can and you will see patterns emerge. Follow them, be yourself even when it is hard. Good luck!
What if you dedicated yourself to becoming enlightened as quickly as possible for the benefit of all beings?
Try serve several kinds of people in various kinds of services.
The one you like most is your purpose.
I keep this poem on my bookmarks bar to occasionally read. Take from it what you will but I think it's beautiful and full of wisdom. Hope it will help.
http://mwkworks.com/desiderata.html
http://mwkworks.com/desiderata.html
Look up John Vervaeke and watch his series on the meaning crisis.
Otherwise read philosophy given that’s the main topic.
Otherwise read philosophy given that’s the main topic.
Vervaeke said in one of those videos that we wish to know the meaning of life as we would know the meaning of a sentence.
For this one person’s answer, watch it until the end:
https://youtu.be/vo1BzyBwZ1E
https://youtu.be/vo1BzyBwZ1E
"The universe is a cruel, uncaring void. The key to being happy isn't a search for meaning. It's to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense, and eventually, you'll be dead." - Mr. PeanutButter
The famous people I'm fans of who are known to be happy seemed to keep themselves busy with what you could call important nonsense. I'm thinking Feynman and Buffett, respectively trying to understand the world and teach, or buying/running business, teaching, giving it all away. They still end up dead but seem to have fun along the way, and get more respect than if they were doing dumb stuff.
I think they were both happy with their stuff before getting rich/famous.
I think they were both happy with their stuff before getting rich/famous.
Personally, I think Allan Watts has some interesting things to say on the topic.
> I think Allan Watts has some interesting things to say on the topic.
One example which comes to mind, from his "The Book":
The man behind the microscope has this advice for you: instead of asking what it is just as "what does it do?"
One example which comes to mind, from his "The Book":
The man behind the microscope has this advice for you: instead of asking what it is just as "what does it do?"
Your purpuse is what you are doing right now. Can't escape it.
watch Soul film by Pixar...
Counselor Jerry: A spark isn't a soul's purpose. Oh, you mentors and your passions. Your "purposes." Your "meanings of life." So basic.
Counselor Jerry: A spark isn't a soul's purpose. Oh, you mentors and your passions. Your "purposes." Your "meanings of life." So basic.
You don’t find your purpose, you develop it.
https://youtu.be/3rO9DiK7DOg
https://youtu.be/3rO9DiK7DOg
Create a post-scarcity society that eliminates all human suffering that comes from deprivation of basic human needs.
This is a solvable problem.
This is a solvable problem.
Truly intelligent machines. Got it.
Some research and expert guidance you might find useful:
1. Frank Martela and Michael F Steger. The three meanings of meaning in life: Distinguishing coherence, purpose, and significance. The Journal of Positive Psychology, 11(5):531–545, 2016. doi:10.1080/17439760.2015.1137623.
2. Roy F Baumeister. Meanings of life. Guilford Press, 1991.
3. Viktor E Frankl. Man’s search for meaning. Simon and Schuster, 1985.
4. Roy F Baumeister, Kathleen D Vohs, Jennifer L Aaker, and Emily N Garbinsky. Some key differences between a happy life and a meaningful life. The journal of positive psychology, 8(6): 505–516, 2013. doi:10.1080/17439760.2013.830764.
5. Crystal L Park and Login S George. Assessing meaning and meaning making in the context of stressful life events: Measurement tools and approaches. The Journal of Positive Psychology, 8 (6):483–504, 2013.
6. Blake A Allan, Ryan D Duffy, and Richard Douglass. Meaning in life and work: A developmental perspective. The Journal of Positive Psychology, 10(4):323–331, 2015. doi:10.1080/17439760.2014.950180.
7. Samantha J Heintzelman and Laura A King. On knowing more than we can tell: Intuitive processes and the experience of meaning. The Journal of Positive Psychology, 8(6):471–482, 2013. doi:10.1080/17439760.2013.830758.
8. Michael F Steger. Experiencing meaning in life: Optimal functioning at the nexus of well-being, psychopathology, and spirituality. In The human quest for meaning, pages 211–230. Routledge, 2013.
9. Bryan J Dik, Ryan D Duffy, and Brandy M Eldridge. Calling and vocation in career counseling: Recommendations for promoting meaningful work. Professional Psychology: Research and Practice, 40 (6):625, 2009. doi:10.1037/a0015547.
10. Lindsay G Oades, Michael Steger, Antonelle Delle Fave, and Jonathan Passmore. The Wiley Blackwell handbook of the psychology of positivity and strengths-based approaches at work. John Wiley & Sons, 2017.
11. Michael F Steger and Bryan J Dik. If one is looking for meaning in life, does it help to find meaning in work? Applied Psychology: Health and Well-Being, 1(3):303–320, 2009. doi:10.1111/j.1758-0854.2009.01018.x.
12. Bryan J Dik and Ryan D Duffy. Make your job a calling: How the psychology of vocation can change your life at work. Templeton Foundation Press, 2012.
13. Login S George and Crystal L Park. Are meaning and purpose distinct? An examination of correlates and predictors. The Journal of Positive Psychology, 8(5):365–375, 2013. doi:10.1080/17439760.2013.805801.
1. Frank Martela and Michael F Steger. The three meanings of meaning in life: Distinguishing coherence, purpose, and significance. The Journal of Positive Psychology, 11(5):531–545, 2016. doi:10.1080/17439760.2015.1137623.
2. Roy F Baumeister. Meanings of life. Guilford Press, 1991.
3. Viktor E Frankl. Man’s search for meaning. Simon and Schuster, 1985.
4. Roy F Baumeister, Kathleen D Vohs, Jennifer L Aaker, and Emily N Garbinsky. Some key differences between a happy life and a meaningful life. The journal of positive psychology, 8(6): 505–516, 2013. doi:10.1080/17439760.2013.830764.
5. Crystal L Park and Login S George. Assessing meaning and meaning making in the context of stressful life events: Measurement tools and approaches. The Journal of Positive Psychology, 8 (6):483–504, 2013.
6. Blake A Allan, Ryan D Duffy, and Richard Douglass. Meaning in life and work: A developmental perspective. The Journal of Positive Psychology, 10(4):323–331, 2015. doi:10.1080/17439760.2014.950180.
7. Samantha J Heintzelman and Laura A King. On knowing more than we can tell: Intuitive processes and the experience of meaning. The Journal of Positive Psychology, 8(6):471–482, 2013. doi:10.1080/17439760.2013.830758.
8. Michael F Steger. Experiencing meaning in life: Optimal functioning at the nexus of well-being, psychopathology, and spirituality. In The human quest for meaning, pages 211–230. Routledge, 2013.
9. Bryan J Dik, Ryan D Duffy, and Brandy M Eldridge. Calling and vocation in career counseling: Recommendations for promoting meaningful work. Professional Psychology: Research and Practice, 40 (6):625, 2009. doi:10.1037/a0015547.
10. Lindsay G Oades, Michael Steger, Antonelle Delle Fave, and Jonathan Passmore. The Wiley Blackwell handbook of the psychology of positivity and strengths-based approaches at work. John Wiley & Sons, 2017.
11. Michael F Steger and Bryan J Dik. If one is looking for meaning in life, does it help to find meaning in work? Applied Psychology: Health and Well-Being, 1(3):303–320, 2009. doi:10.1111/j.1758-0854.2009.01018.x.
12. Bryan J Dik and Ryan D Duffy. Make your job a calling: How the psychology of vocation can change your life at work. Templeton Foundation Press, 2012.
13. Login S George and Crystal L Park. Are meaning and purpose distinct? An examination of correlates and predictors. The Journal of Positive Psychology, 8(5):365–375, 2013. doi:10.1080/17439760.2013.805801.
Thanks!
Thank you for your responses. I will be going through all of them.
I strongly recommend this [0] lecture by Abraham Maslow on the nature of purpose. TLDR: Puepose is the defining motivation behind self-actualization.
[0]: https://www.esalen.org/podcasts/abraham-maslows-1966-lecture...
[0]: https://www.esalen.org/podcasts/abraham-maslows-1966-lecture...
[deleted]
By not looking for it.
Highly recommend the 2020 film by Pixar: Soul
I highly don’t recommend the 2020 film by Pixar: Soul.
Are you excited to get to know all about an aspiring jazz pianist who is trying to make it in nyc?! Well tough luck, that’s not what this film is about. Instead, after getting hooked on a character and his goals, you are instead treated to a 30m-1h sequence of “lessons” (similar to a video game tutorial that’s overstayed its welcome) about how this meta afterlife world works. Everything is explained. But the explanations suck. But I’m not even here to start taking notes on the mechanisms of this after life world (which end up being broken anyway). It’s very… boring.
The best parts of the movie are in the real world. Who is this guy? What’s his life like? What are his dreams, how does he fall short? Those are also the shortest parts of the movie.
The movie is mainly the main guy running and bouncing around trying to get back to the actual interesting part of the film.
The after life world characters are bland. They are mechanical (on purpose), which makes them difficult to connect to. I had no sympathy for their goals and struggles.
Overall Soul is a big miss for Pixar. And I love Pixar. I can see what they were going for, they wanted to make a movie about life, death, purpose, etc. This movie is not that. It’s a weird adaptation of intangible concepts personified but not done well. It’s also way too much like Inside Out, which was better (but also not anything amazing).
If you need your Pixar fix, I recommend: - Ratatouille - Coco - WallE
Are you excited to get to know all about an aspiring jazz pianist who is trying to make it in nyc?! Well tough luck, that’s not what this film is about. Instead, after getting hooked on a character and his goals, you are instead treated to a 30m-1h sequence of “lessons” (similar to a video game tutorial that’s overstayed its welcome) about how this meta afterlife world works. Everything is explained. But the explanations suck. But I’m not even here to start taking notes on the mechanisms of this after life world (which end up being broken anyway). It’s very… boring.
The best parts of the movie are in the real world. Who is this guy? What’s his life like? What are his dreams, how does he fall short? Those are also the shortest parts of the movie.
The movie is mainly the main guy running and bouncing around trying to get back to the actual interesting part of the film.
The after life world characters are bland. They are mechanical (on purpose), which makes them difficult to connect to. I had no sympathy for their goals and struggles.
Overall Soul is a big miss for Pixar. And I love Pixar. I can see what they were going for, they wanted to make a movie about life, death, purpose, etc. This movie is not that. It’s a weird adaptation of intangible concepts personified but not done well. It’s also way too much like Inside Out, which was better (but also not anything amazing).
If you need your Pixar fix, I recommend: - Ratatouille - Coco - WallE
I kinda give up and accept what it is.
I've been exploring this exact question and have come to some unexpected conclusions. For me, the responses you've gotten so far aren't very helpful primarily because they misunderstand the problem.
I start with the premise that 1) We can identify periods of our lives that felt meaningful/purposeful, etc and 2) Creating a life where we feel that way more often is an attractive goal.
If you don't agree with those premises then the rest of what I'm going to write won't be relevant. My guess is you do, and so do most of the people responding to this thread.
Now the tricky thing is that while we can identify the periods of our lives that felt most meaningful, it's incredibly difficult to define meaning/purpose in the abstract. This is an unfamiliar problem for most of us. It's my experience that most analytically gifted people live their lives by establishing a set of clear goals that we then use as lenses for making day to day decisions.
If my goal is to have a large impact on the world I have enough of a sense for what that looks like that I can make decisions about what to focus on to make it more likely that will happen. The same can be said about spending more time with friends, or working on challenging problems. We can confidently visualize what the world looks like where we are doing those things, and set ourselves to the task of making it a reality. (Goals are actually proxies for feelings we want, but that's a topic for another day).
The confidence (accurate or not) that we can achieve these goals is what gives us the motivation to pursue them. From an adaptive perspective it's clear why this is the case. Pursuing impossible goals leads to wasted time and resources, so you would expect our motivation system to be directly influenced by the likelihood of success.
This presents a challenge for our desire to experience more meaning and purpose. Without the ability to define meaning in the abstract we can't confidently visualize a future where they are present. This makes it extremely difficult to know what to orient towards, and even we can tell ourselves a story that seems plausible, challenging to conjure the motivation to pursue it.
It may be that this is in fact by design. We have all had the experience of returning to activities or modes of being that once felt extremely meaningful, but no longer produce the desired effect. Simply replicating what's been meaningful in the past isn't the best strategy. My belief is that meaning/purpose is a different kind of thing and we need to use a different mechanism than we do to achieve other kinds of goals in order to produce more of it in our lives.
We can't orient towards meaning and purpose in the way we do for professional success, but we can train ourselves to make decisions that lead to more of it. The first step I recommend people take is to describe the meaningful experiences in their past in as much detail as possible. This has two benefits. First you're training your brain to recognize those states. The more detail you go into and the more experiences you unpack, the more you're conditioning yourself to recognize all the subtleties that made that experience meaningful. Focus on the other feelings that were present during those periods. Did you feel challenged? Supported in a certain way? Were you learning? Playing? In my experience the specific constellation of feelings associated with meaning will differ for each person which is why the prescriptive definitions of meaning don't resonate for most of us.
I think of feelings as highly compressed data formed by our lived experience rather than the ideas we have in our minds. This is the domain of meaning, and in order to orient towards persistently meaningful lives, we need to actively engage with that system.
By training yourself to recognize the feelings associated with your past experiences of meaning, that awareness becomes available to you in your day to day life. You can ask yourself if a particular choice is more or less likely to lead to more meaning, and with enough practice you will feel an answer. You can think of this a lot like physical skills that you learn. You know how to ride a bike, but you couldn't teach someone else how to do it simply by describing it to them. Your body learns the highly complex series of motions you need to perform in order to stay balanced while peddling, all without you needing any conscious understanding of how it works.
The world is infinitely complex and we can't pay attention to everything in our environment. When you climb onto a bike you automatically attune to the inputs you need to be aware of in order to ride it successfully. Orienting towards meaning requires a similar action. You need to proactively put yourself in a frame of mind that preferences the inputs that will help you make decisions that lead to more meaning.
Once you've trained yourself well enough on your past experiences you can ask yourself if a certain decision is likely to lead to more meaning, and more often than not you'll get a felt answer of yes or no.
Another way to think of this feeling system is as an AI that's simply processing too much data for you to be consciously aware of. It learns the incredibly complex pattern of meaning by training on your past experiences, and is going to be far more effective than your analytical mind in determining what future experiences are likely to produce.
There's some subtlety in how to train yourself most effectively, but this is the general idea, I hope it's helpful!
I start with the premise that 1) We can identify periods of our lives that felt meaningful/purposeful, etc and 2) Creating a life where we feel that way more often is an attractive goal.
If you don't agree with those premises then the rest of what I'm going to write won't be relevant. My guess is you do, and so do most of the people responding to this thread.
Now the tricky thing is that while we can identify the periods of our lives that felt most meaningful, it's incredibly difficult to define meaning/purpose in the abstract. This is an unfamiliar problem for most of us. It's my experience that most analytically gifted people live their lives by establishing a set of clear goals that we then use as lenses for making day to day decisions.
If my goal is to have a large impact on the world I have enough of a sense for what that looks like that I can make decisions about what to focus on to make it more likely that will happen. The same can be said about spending more time with friends, or working on challenging problems. We can confidently visualize what the world looks like where we are doing those things, and set ourselves to the task of making it a reality. (Goals are actually proxies for feelings we want, but that's a topic for another day).
The confidence (accurate or not) that we can achieve these goals is what gives us the motivation to pursue them. From an adaptive perspective it's clear why this is the case. Pursuing impossible goals leads to wasted time and resources, so you would expect our motivation system to be directly influenced by the likelihood of success.
This presents a challenge for our desire to experience more meaning and purpose. Without the ability to define meaning in the abstract we can't confidently visualize a future where they are present. This makes it extremely difficult to know what to orient towards, and even we can tell ourselves a story that seems plausible, challenging to conjure the motivation to pursue it.
It may be that this is in fact by design. We have all had the experience of returning to activities or modes of being that once felt extremely meaningful, but no longer produce the desired effect. Simply replicating what's been meaningful in the past isn't the best strategy. My belief is that meaning/purpose is a different kind of thing and we need to use a different mechanism than we do to achieve other kinds of goals in order to produce more of it in our lives.
We can't orient towards meaning and purpose in the way we do for professional success, but we can train ourselves to make decisions that lead to more of it. The first step I recommend people take is to describe the meaningful experiences in their past in as much detail as possible. This has two benefits. First you're training your brain to recognize those states. The more detail you go into and the more experiences you unpack, the more you're conditioning yourself to recognize all the subtleties that made that experience meaningful. Focus on the other feelings that were present during those periods. Did you feel challenged? Supported in a certain way? Were you learning? Playing? In my experience the specific constellation of feelings associated with meaning will differ for each person which is why the prescriptive definitions of meaning don't resonate for most of us.
I think of feelings as highly compressed data formed by our lived experience rather than the ideas we have in our minds. This is the domain of meaning, and in order to orient towards persistently meaningful lives, we need to actively engage with that system.
By training yourself to recognize the feelings associated with your past experiences of meaning, that awareness becomes available to you in your day to day life. You can ask yourself if a particular choice is more or less likely to lead to more meaning, and with enough practice you will feel an answer. You can think of this a lot like physical skills that you learn. You know how to ride a bike, but you couldn't teach someone else how to do it simply by describing it to them. Your body learns the highly complex series of motions you need to perform in order to stay balanced while peddling, all without you needing any conscious understanding of how it works.
The world is infinitely complex and we can't pay attention to everything in our environment. When you climb onto a bike you automatically attune to the inputs you need to be aware of in order to ride it successfully. Orienting towards meaning requires a similar action. You need to proactively put yourself in a frame of mind that preferences the inputs that will help you make decisions that lead to more meaning.
Once you've trained yourself well enough on your past experiences you can ask yourself if a certain decision is likely to lead to more meaning, and more often than not you'll get a felt answer of yes or no.
Another way to think of this feeling system is as an AI that's simply processing too much data for you to be consciously aware of. It learns the incredibly complex pattern of meaning by training on your past experiences, and is going to be far more effective than your analytical mind in determining what future experiences are likely to produce.
There's some subtlety in how to train yourself most effectively, but this is the general idea, I hope it's helpful!
So I've been searching for my "purpose" for about 10 years, and unlike some other commenters here my personal experience makes me believe it's possible to consciously discover/create your purpose. But I don't see purpose as anything particularly religious or dramatic–simply that you can reflect on the life you have in front of you and feel content/at peace with where you are.
Nowadays, I consider myself fairly happy. Here is an incomplete list of things I did to get closer to answering the ever elusive question:
- I retraced my childhood memories to resurface long forgotten hobbies and activities that brought me joy, focus, and interest. For instance, as a kid I used to spend hours and hours drawing my favourite FFVII characters, puzzling over difficult math problems, playing piano, and more. Not all of these turned out to still be interesting to the adult me, but if you're looking for ideas on what kind of activites might bring you fulfilment, your childhood interests (or their underlying motivations) are often a good place to start.
- I attempted a bunch of new things over the course of multiple years. A non-exhaustive list of things I tried: learning German, living in 3 different countries, running a marathon, doing a triathlon, going to law school, taking watercolor painting lessons, doing a sculpting course, learning jazz piano, spending time in a Buddhist temple, creating a mobile app, etc. etc. Most of these I invested 3+ months of regular commitment to give them a proper shot, but some only ~20 hours. And if you want to know how many actually stuck with me, optimistically I'd say about 20%–but going through the 80% to find this 20% was more than worth it for me. Point being, I spent a lot of time (and energy) trying out things I didn't really end up liking in order to find the few that I did.
- Lots and lots of introspection and self-inquiry regarding my emotions, motivations, and values. What do I stand for? What can I not live without? Why do I do the things I do? Why did I choose the paths I chose? What do I wish I could have chosen? What did I stop doing? Where are these emotions coming from? Nobody could answer these questions for me, and oftentimes neither could I. But I didn't stop turning them over and over in my head throughout all the years, and slowly over time I started to form half-answers and then eventually full answers to some of these questions.
- Sometimes I landed at major crossroads in my life, and I just couldn't decide. For a long time I remained in this limbo state, agonizing over which path to take, until I learned that just picking something and moving on is a much better approach. Biasing towards action helped me gain key information faster than just sitting around thinking, and I learned either that I do in fact enjoy the path I chose or that I would I rather be doing <x> activity instead–in which case I promptly changed to doing <x> instead. (Note that this kind of goes against the point above on introspecting a lot. I guess the key takeaway is to make sure you're doing both, but people tend to overthink and underact.)
- Whenever I wasn't sure about how much I valued something, I just cut it out of my life. The things that are truly important to me have a way of coming back to haunt me until the point I can't stand not pursuing them any longer. Example 1: I didn't play piano for a few years, and deeply missed it by the second year. Example 2: I didn't do any rigorous academic study for 5+ years, and one day realized how important intellectual rigor was to my own sense of identity. I don't know if I actually recommend this method though, as it's an expensive way to learn a lesson and some consequences are difficult to reverse (if at all). I often wonder if there are better ways of determining what's valuable to myself without going through this separation process.
I'm going to stop here before I end up rambling; I hope the above will help you in one way or another. All in all, I believe it's worth searching for a life of purpose, whatever that might mean to you. To strive for anything less feels like doing yourself a disservice, because what's the point of living if you're not enjoying life in all its glorious suffering and beauty?
So good luck, I'll be racing you to the peak!
Nowadays, I consider myself fairly happy. Here is an incomplete list of things I did to get closer to answering the ever elusive question:
- I retraced my childhood memories to resurface long forgotten hobbies and activities that brought me joy, focus, and interest. For instance, as a kid I used to spend hours and hours drawing my favourite FFVII characters, puzzling over difficult math problems, playing piano, and more. Not all of these turned out to still be interesting to the adult me, but if you're looking for ideas on what kind of activites might bring you fulfilment, your childhood interests (or their underlying motivations) are often a good place to start.
- I attempted a bunch of new things over the course of multiple years. A non-exhaustive list of things I tried: learning German, living in 3 different countries, running a marathon, doing a triathlon, going to law school, taking watercolor painting lessons, doing a sculpting course, learning jazz piano, spending time in a Buddhist temple, creating a mobile app, etc. etc. Most of these I invested 3+ months of regular commitment to give them a proper shot, but some only ~20 hours. And if you want to know how many actually stuck with me, optimistically I'd say about 20%–but going through the 80% to find this 20% was more than worth it for me. Point being, I spent a lot of time (and energy) trying out things I didn't really end up liking in order to find the few that I did.
- Lots and lots of introspection and self-inquiry regarding my emotions, motivations, and values. What do I stand for? What can I not live without? Why do I do the things I do? Why did I choose the paths I chose? What do I wish I could have chosen? What did I stop doing? Where are these emotions coming from? Nobody could answer these questions for me, and oftentimes neither could I. But I didn't stop turning them over and over in my head throughout all the years, and slowly over time I started to form half-answers and then eventually full answers to some of these questions.
- Sometimes I landed at major crossroads in my life, and I just couldn't decide. For a long time I remained in this limbo state, agonizing over which path to take, until I learned that just picking something and moving on is a much better approach. Biasing towards action helped me gain key information faster than just sitting around thinking, and I learned either that I do in fact enjoy the path I chose or that I would I rather be doing <x> activity instead–in which case I promptly changed to doing <x> instead. (Note that this kind of goes against the point above on introspecting a lot. I guess the key takeaway is to make sure you're doing both, but people tend to overthink and underact.)
- Whenever I wasn't sure about how much I valued something, I just cut it out of my life. The things that are truly important to me have a way of coming back to haunt me until the point I can't stand not pursuing them any longer. Example 1: I didn't play piano for a few years, and deeply missed it by the second year. Example 2: I didn't do any rigorous academic study for 5+ years, and one day realized how important intellectual rigor was to my own sense of identity. I don't know if I actually recommend this method though, as it's an expensive way to learn a lesson and some consequences are difficult to reverse (if at all). I often wonder if there are better ways of determining what's valuable to myself without going through this separation process.
I'm going to stop here before I end up rambling; I hope the above will help you in one way or another. All in all, I believe it's worth searching for a life of purpose, whatever that might mean to you. To strive for anything less feels like doing yourself a disservice, because what's the point of living if you're not enjoying life in all its glorious suffering and beauty?
So good luck, I'll be racing you to the peak!
Read about Islam
You pass butter.
You pass butter.
I may be a little late to the party, but I'd like to offer a few thoughts. I write this as much to clarify my own thinking as to possibly help you.
Preface: I feel at peace, and guided by inner purpose now. Experience has taught me that all is fleeting, so I am quite confident there will a time where I don't feel this way. Therefore, take all I am about to write with a grain of salt, even as it applies to my experience. These thoughts all reset on certain "spiritual" assumptions that are true in my experience. I ask that you use discipline in your thinking and clarify what is true to you and your experience and not assume that anything I say is supposed to be taken as true, for you, or in any absolute sense.
Everything seems a bit paradoxical to me these days.
Purpose appears to be something that just is, like a knife's (primary) purpose is to cut, an apple tree's purpose is to bear apples, and somewhere far removed in complexity, each human has a purpose that is as clear as those two examples. Simultaneously, we/consciousness possess or appears to possess some kind of free will, or ability to chose that allows us some latitude in defining our purpose.
The proverbial fruit in the Biblical garden of eden story is from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I have come to interpret that as marking a turning point where animals became "man" and "woman", because our purpose was no longer sole encoded in our biology, but something changed where we could chose to work in alignment, or against our biology.
As beings with free will, but also living in or as biological machines, we have this dual existence where some of our purpose is given to us, as certain genetic differences manifest as "advantages" in certain areas of life, and we are also free to steer our lives. Expand genetics to include our environment, "nurture", and even "karma" (why are two identical twins often so different?, and we are always existing in a certain state, with some hardware (our bodies including brains), and software (our minds, emotions, any woo stuff you're into). This is where we "find" our purpose, as it is something inherent to the nature of the state of our system. However, I'd argue that as beings with free will, we can introspect and sculpt this state and also create our purpose, by changing the hardware and software that we experience "the world" through.
To summarize that, we are both spirit (consciousness with free will), and also biology, so "finding" a purpose to me has been balancing and harmonizing what is currently true with my desires and intentions, knowing that even my desires and intentions come through the user interface that is our biology.
The following statements might sound like platitudes, and yet for me they have been immensely transformative.
No amount of pure thinking ever got me anywhere. At some point, lived experience was (and continues to be) the only way "forward". Our minds are only maps to some extent, and until we've walked the territory, it's all just conjecture. I can't overstate how important good food, sleep, exercise, meditation, and "inner work" have been. It's been so important to just be present in the moment, in my body, with my feelings and emotions. The present is all there ever is, so being there seems rather important.
Preface: I feel at peace, and guided by inner purpose now. Experience has taught me that all is fleeting, so I am quite confident there will a time where I don't feel this way. Therefore, take all I am about to write with a grain of salt, even as it applies to my experience. These thoughts all reset on certain "spiritual" assumptions that are true in my experience. I ask that you use discipline in your thinking and clarify what is true to you and your experience and not assume that anything I say is supposed to be taken as true, for you, or in any absolute sense.
Everything seems a bit paradoxical to me these days.
Purpose appears to be something that just is, like a knife's (primary) purpose is to cut, an apple tree's purpose is to bear apples, and somewhere far removed in complexity, each human has a purpose that is as clear as those two examples. Simultaneously, we/consciousness possess or appears to possess some kind of free will, or ability to chose that allows us some latitude in defining our purpose.
The proverbial fruit in the Biblical garden of eden story is from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I have come to interpret that as marking a turning point where animals became "man" and "woman", because our purpose was no longer sole encoded in our biology, but something changed where we could chose to work in alignment, or against our biology.
As beings with free will, but also living in or as biological machines, we have this dual existence where some of our purpose is given to us, as certain genetic differences manifest as "advantages" in certain areas of life, and we are also free to steer our lives. Expand genetics to include our environment, "nurture", and even "karma" (why are two identical twins often so different?, and we are always existing in a certain state, with some hardware (our bodies including brains), and software (our minds, emotions, any woo stuff you're into). This is where we "find" our purpose, as it is something inherent to the nature of the state of our system. However, I'd argue that as beings with free will, we can introspect and sculpt this state and also create our purpose, by changing the hardware and software that we experience "the world" through.
To summarize that, we are both spirit (consciousness with free will), and also biology, so "finding" a purpose to me has been balancing and harmonizing what is currently true with my desires and intentions, knowing that even my desires and intentions come through the user interface that is our biology.
The following statements might sound like platitudes, and yet for me they have been immensely transformative.
No amount of pure thinking ever got me anywhere. At some point, lived experience was (and continues to be) the only way "forward". Our minds are only maps to some extent, and until we've walked the territory, it's all just conjecture. I can't overstate how important good food, sleep, exercise, meditation, and "inner work" have been. It's been so important to just be present in the moment, in my body, with my feelings and emotions. The present is all there ever is, so being there seems rather important.
This post really resonated with me and I sense a lot of commond ground in your world-view, confirmed by reading some of your other posts on HN. Super off-topic but I'd love to chat to you about your ideas on "government is a superstition", feel free to email me at [email protected] if you're interested :)
ah damn that mailbox doesn't work as expected :( feel free to email the one in my bio!
I think it comes down to ROI. You exist (for now), which means you have a finite resource of "life time" to invest, and humans are happier and healthier when we feel like we're creating a good return on our investment. We want our "life time" to be put to good use rather than being squandered. This is how I think of "purpose" and as many others have suggested, "Man's search for meaning" really unpacks this idea.
Skills, strengths and passion get lumped into "purpose" but I argue that they are vehicles rather than the destination itself. More on that later.
So the goal is to have visibility of ROI and to be working to make the number go up. Only I can determine my ROI, and it's based on a criteria which is shaped by my values and world-view [0].
For visibility, get clear on your values and world-view. There's a bunch of value-finder exercises online to get the ball rolling, and you can always refine them over time until you have words that resonate deeply for you. [1] If your world-view adds additional metrics for ROI, write those down too.
To make the number go up, align your investment of "life time" with these criteria. This will inevitably get you out of your comfort zone, taking risks and engaging with life on a deeper level.
I've recently realized that my cushy job isn't aligned with my value of effectiveness, and the low ROI has been enough to shake me out of my complacency. I'm now spending nights and weekends working on a new career path with high ROI, and I feel a sense of direction, motivation and meaning in this pursuit. It's got me more engaged in my life and more willing to take risks because there's a purpose to it all now. Notice how these are all benefits of having "purpose".
Aligning "life time" with values creates a positive ROI, while leveraging skills, strengths and passion helps us increase this number. I propose that a passionate and gifted programmer working on a product that isn't aligned with their values is going to have a lower ROI than their colleague who is just phoning it in for their paycheck.
Doing things you're good at increases your output, and doing things you're passionate about makes the work less-taxing. Mark Manson has an excellent article about finding your favorite flavor of shit sandwich [2] and it's essentially activities in which you have a competitive advantage - let's call this your "niche". Working in your niche helps you do more easier, which amplifies your rate of ROI.
The best tool I've used for finding my niche was doing the Clifton Strengths Assessment with a certified coach [3]. It's nice to have a cute list of "my top 10 strengths" but the real value is how those strengths interact with each other to create the beautiful and unique human that you are, and that takes a professional to really unpack it.
TLDR (courtesy of GPT3): The purpose of life is to create a positive return on investment (ROI) of our "life time". To do this, we need to be clear on our values and world-view, and then align our actions with these. This may mean taking risks and getting out of our comfort zone, but it will ultimately lead to a more fulfilling life. Skills, strengths and passion can help us achieve our purpose, but they are not the purpose itself.
[0] - As seen in other comments, certain world-views have a prescribed purpose built in to the equation, such as "relationship with God" and "having kids". Others tend to have more of a "do what makes you happy" flavor. This is evident in the ongoing debate between "you have to change the world!" and "no you don't".
[1] - Most systems constrain it to a list of ~6 core values and I've found this is about my limit for keeping them in working-memory.
[2] - https://markmanson.net/life-purpose
[3] - https://www.gallup.com/cliftonstrengths/en/252137/home.aspx
So the goal is to have visibility of ROI and to be working to make the number go up. Only I can determine my ROI, and it's based on a criteria which is shaped by my values and world-view [0].
For visibility, get clear on your values and world-view. There's a bunch of value-finder exercises online to get the ball rolling, and you can always refine them over time until you have words that resonate deeply for you. [1] If your world-view adds additional metrics for ROI, write those down too.
To make the number go up, align your investment of "life time" with these criteria. This will inevitably get you out of your comfort zone, taking risks and engaging with life on a deeper level.
I've recently realized that my cushy job isn't aligned with my value of effectiveness, and the low ROI has been enough to shake me out of my complacency. I'm now spending nights and weekends working on a new career path with high ROI, and I feel a sense of direction, motivation and meaning in this pursuit. It's got me more engaged in my life and more willing to take risks because there's a purpose to it all now. Notice how these are all benefits of having "purpose".
Aligning "life time" with values creates a positive ROI, while leveraging skills, strengths and passion helps us increase this number. I propose that a passionate and gifted programmer working on a product that isn't aligned with their values is going to have a lower ROI than their colleague who is just phoning it in for their paycheck.
Doing things you're good at increases your output, and doing things you're passionate about makes the work less-taxing. Mark Manson has an excellent article about finding your favorite flavor of shit sandwich [2] and it's essentially activities in which you have a competitive advantage - let's call this your "niche". Working in your niche helps you do more easier, which amplifies your rate of ROI.
The best tool I've used for finding my niche was doing the Clifton Strengths Assessment with a certified coach [3]. It's nice to have a cute list of "my top 10 strengths" but the real value is how those strengths interact with each other to create the beautiful and unique human that you are, and that takes a professional to really unpack it.
TLDR (courtesy of GPT3): The purpose of life is to create a positive return on investment (ROI) of our "life time". To do this, we need to be clear on our values and world-view, and then align our actions with these. This may mean taking risks and getting out of our comfort zone, but it will ultimately lead to a more fulfilling life. Skills, strengths and passion can help us achieve our purpose, but they are not the purpose itself.
[0] - As seen in other comments, certain world-views have a prescribed purpose built in to the equation, such as "relationship with God" and "having kids". Others tend to have more of a "do what makes you happy" flavor. This is evident in the ongoing debate between "you have to change the world!" and "no you don't".
[1] - Most systems constrain it to a list of ~6 core values and I've found this is about my limit for keeping them in working-memory.
[2] - https://markmanson.net/life-purpose
[3] - https://www.gallup.com/cliftonstrengths/en/252137/home.aspx
Purpose is made, not found.
The meaning of life is to create meaning.
Now let's get to the real question; How do you live with mindful intention? How do you create the meaning you want?
This is the hard part:
First, you have to know where you are starting from. You have to be honest with yourself. What do you value? Not 'what do you feel like you /should/ value?'. What do you /really/ value? This takes dispassionate introspection. Recall your physically manifested behavior over time. How would someone observing you describe how you spend your time? What conclusions would they come to about what you value based on your behavior? It's important not to have selective memory here. Your mind will rebel. You'll probably tell yourself nice stories about your motivations or circumstances that explain away behavior that isn't, at first blush, ideal. Just be honest. Assume that the person you have been was perfectly rational and has completely fulfilled what they truly value with their behavior. What are those values?
Now, the point of that introspection isn't to beat yourself up. Watch a ton of TV? Perhaps you value a well-told story or time to relax. Spend yourself into debt? Perhaps you value living in the moment and the experiences that spending brings. It's ok, and you probably should, put the best possible spin on the values that motivate the observed behaviors. This is your baseline. These are your current values that you actually hold. This is your current purpose and meaning. Don't like them? Change them. Like the values but not how they currently manifest in your behavior? Change the behaviors, but don't ignore the values and motivations that lead to those behaviors.
It doesn't get easier from here. While going through that exercise you may have had some negative emotions. Guilt. Denial. Shame. Confusion. Envy of an imagined self living a better life. You may have imagined 'better' ways you could have behaved. Now you have to decide, knowing what you now know about yourself and where you currently stand, which of those emotions are intrinsic and which are externally imposed. You want to keep as much of the intrinsic motivators and dump as much of the external motivators as possible. They are not always easy to tell apart. Decide what behaviors would satisfy your intrinsic motivators and work those behaviors into your life. Revisit this process often. External motivators may masquerade as intrinsic. You can tell them apart by whether these new behaviors are fulfilling over time or continue to be a painful struggle.
You'll learn to recognize Yourself over time and you won't need to look backward and pick yourself apart too much to figure out your Intent. Finding something motivating, formulating intent, and acting to realize that motivation will become just how you live. You'll be creating meaning and purpose from moment to moment.
The meaning of life is to create meaning.
Now let's get to the real question; How do you live with mindful intention? How do you create the meaning you want?
This is the hard part:
First, you have to know where you are starting from. You have to be honest with yourself. What do you value? Not 'what do you feel like you /should/ value?'. What do you /really/ value? This takes dispassionate introspection. Recall your physically manifested behavior over time. How would someone observing you describe how you spend your time? What conclusions would they come to about what you value based on your behavior? It's important not to have selective memory here. Your mind will rebel. You'll probably tell yourself nice stories about your motivations or circumstances that explain away behavior that isn't, at first blush, ideal. Just be honest. Assume that the person you have been was perfectly rational and has completely fulfilled what they truly value with their behavior. What are those values?
Now, the point of that introspection isn't to beat yourself up. Watch a ton of TV? Perhaps you value a well-told story or time to relax. Spend yourself into debt? Perhaps you value living in the moment and the experiences that spending brings. It's ok, and you probably should, put the best possible spin on the values that motivate the observed behaviors. This is your baseline. These are your current values that you actually hold. This is your current purpose and meaning. Don't like them? Change them. Like the values but not how they currently manifest in your behavior? Change the behaviors, but don't ignore the values and motivations that lead to those behaviors.
It doesn't get easier from here. While going through that exercise you may have had some negative emotions. Guilt. Denial. Shame. Confusion. Envy of an imagined self living a better life. You may have imagined 'better' ways you could have behaved. Now you have to decide, knowing what you now know about yourself and where you currently stand, which of those emotions are intrinsic and which are externally imposed. You want to keep as much of the intrinsic motivators and dump as much of the external motivators as possible. They are not always easy to tell apart. Decide what behaviors would satisfy your intrinsic motivators and work those behaviors into your life. Revisit this process often. External motivators may masquerade as intrinsic. You can tell them apart by whether these new behaviors are fulfilling over time or continue to be a painful struggle.
You'll learn to recognize Yourself over time and you won't need to look backward and pick yourself apart too much to figure out your Intent. Finding something motivating, formulating intent, and acting to realize that motivation will become just how you live. You'll be creating meaning and purpose from moment to moment.
No offense, but how many years have you lived in this world? Have you seen it? Have you never cared yet? If not, what is your problem? How about you actually go and when you read a piece of news or see a problem out in this world, you CARE. For one second in your life, you actually dont just look at yourself and do everything for your own higher happiness and well being and you actually try to help somebody else or fix a serious problem or stop some evil that is going on out there. We live in a messed up world of wars and pain and suffering of immense proportions. And yet you come here and ask like a child: "ohh gee, I wanna have a purpose because I'll be even more happy than I already am, I heard it gives me an even bigger high!" I'm paraphrasing. It's almost offensive honestly. Not almost, it is offensive.
This is a really bad take. Adopting a random pet cause from the news, on an issue that is completely outside one’s sphere of influence, is a recipe for becoming angry and bitter, or idiotically throwing soup on paintings.
Well I agree with you on one thing, I certainly asked myself whether it even makes sense to even attempt to reason with someone who has lived his entire life with no purpose and no God and apparently no morality that would compell him to care about something other than himself. That's a dangerous individual to me, to me, it's crazy. It's like attempting to tell a politician to please stop only stealing for yourself and actually do something useful and fix something. It's expecting a total change in character and morality from someone. Then add to that the danger that they pick an absolutely terrible, misguided shallow purpose prepared by politicans and their propaganda. My advice is to look into the bible and attempt to find God. Only that can revert your character in a way necessary that would help avoid the problems.
So your advice is their purpose is to find god.
Just say that instead of some rant about being offended next time, mkay?
Saying as someone with no purpose and no God and apparently no morality.
Just say that instead of some rant about being offended next time, mkay?
Saying as someone with no purpose and no God and apparently no morality.
Is it offensive to want to be happy / happier without first solving someone else's problems? What's the appropriate amount of happiness to feel before it should turn to guilt?
You don't know anything about me or about why I am asking the question. Chill. You don't get a cookie.
pretty big assumption reader viewing on-line & private mode disabled.
Obviously, typical HN'ers purpose is finding/using a local minimum balanced set of paranthetical s-expression(s) that can be quoted with out being concerned over how things stack up.
aka (text.[0-9]) such that cons(text) is the appropriate set of macros for quote([0-9])
Aforementioned used approrpiately with Nyquist[1], does modify things to allow finding defun of reading between the line of the Beach Boys 'Good Vibrations' and Eurythmics 'Sweet Dreams' independent of sound off.
But, haven't found the HN ARC for that yet.
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[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist_(programming_language)
Obviously, typical HN'ers purpose is finding/using a local minimum balanced set of paranthetical s-expression(s) that can be quoted with out being concerned over how things stack up.
aka (text.[0-9]) such that cons(text) is the appropriate set of macros for quote([0-9])
Aforementioned used approrpiately with Nyquist[1], does modify things to allow finding defun of reading between the line of the Beach Boys 'Good Vibrations' and Eurythmics 'Sweet Dreams' independent of sound off.
But, haven't found the HN ARC for that yet.
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[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist_(programming_language)
There are plenty of studies that show that having a "purpose" and working after it is correlated with higher happiness or well being. "Purpose" is vague enough, so to make things worse I am going to conflate it with "life meaning", "calling" or "personal values". I recently came across the Japanese "Ikigai" which seems related.
Ok, I buy this, however, what is this "purpose/ meaning/ calling/ value" thing? What does it mean, really? How do I find mine?
I think this is the kind of thing a fair amount of people here in HN have thought about, so I thought of asking.
Is there any research that goes into what is "purpose" and how to figure it out? I've come across plenty that talks about how good it is, but nothing that goes into how to find it. Any serious books that you may recommend?