Turkey earthquake: please keep 28.540 clear for communications(forums.qrz.com)
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Turkey earthquake: please keep 28.540 clear for communications
https://forums.qrz.com/index.php?threads/turkey-earthquake-please-keep-28-540-clear-for-communications.850385/
137 comments
> The tech has already been proven—carriers just need to be mandated to add it because there's no business reason to do so.
People say that but in the decades since it was thought up mesh networks have never actually managed to work, not at any scale. Routing efficiently is extremely complex especially when all the nodes keep moving around. I concede it may be better than nothing in an emergency but I strongly suspect it's just not very useful in general, which is probably why carriers haven't mandated it. After all if it worked you wouldn't need carriers at all, yet here they are...
People say that but in the decades since it was thought up mesh networks have never actually managed to work, not at any scale. Routing efficiently is extremely complex especially when all the nodes keep moving around. I concede it may be better than nothing in an emergency but I strongly suspect it's just not very useful in general, which is probably why carriers haven't mandated it. After all if it worked you wouldn't need carriers at all, yet here they are...
A route on a mesh network is only as big as the smallest link. Of course as a general substitute for connectivity it holds little promise. Like any technology it has its pluses and minuses.
In situations without access to a fat, centralized link or situations where resilience is more important than bandwidth or latency, mesh networks are a great choice. Emergencies are such situations but remote areas or low power needs are other situations suited for mesh networks.
In situations without access to a fat, centralized link or situations where resilience is more important than bandwidth or latency, mesh networks are a great choice. Emergencies are such situations but remote areas or low power needs are other situations suited for mesh networks.
I've played around with a few different "simple" mesh techs in my time, some of the really cheap/easily available stuff can be really useful. I've seen examples of people sending entire kilobytes-per-second of data over a kilometer with the right antennas and line-of-sight with cheap, sub-£100 kit.
Things like LoRa which I've not had a chance to play with yet look extremely promising too for long range, low bandwidth.
If there was good reason for it, and sufficiently easy to set-up kit, I don't see why more people wouldn't help build out networks by setting up routing nodes in their homes; everyone installs a WiFi router because their ISP tells them to, but what about if people's only choice to get internet was to add a femtocell or similar (and it was legal and cost effective)? People would do it.
The real hold up, I'd say, is not so much effectiveness, but need. Nobody _needs_ to usurp the role of their carrier and build out a community network, so it doesn't happen.
If for example, using that network became so costly, say for example, like electricity recently has in the UK and Europe, that for many, building out their own infrastructure with solar and batteries became cost effective, I could see it happening here too; with frequency band licensing etc likely being the main barrier.
Things like LoRa which I've not had a chance to play with yet look extremely promising too for long range, low bandwidth.
If there was good reason for it, and sufficiently easy to set-up kit, I don't see why more people wouldn't help build out networks by setting up routing nodes in their homes; everyone installs a WiFi router because their ISP tells them to, but what about if people's only choice to get internet was to add a femtocell or similar (and it was legal and cost effective)? People would do it.
The real hold up, I'd say, is not so much effectiveness, but need. Nobody _needs_ to usurp the role of their carrier and build out a community network, so it doesn't happen.
If for example, using that network became so costly, say for example, like electricity recently has in the UK and Europe, that for many, building out their own infrastructure with solar and batteries became cost effective, I could see it happening here too; with frequency band licensing etc likely being the main barrier.
i really don't want to be this person, but Starlink is a mesh network, i have a crap connection to it, and i still routinely get over 200mbit download and 30-50mbit uploads. and a ping 1/3rd of my at&t connection (minimums around 19ms, which i haven't seen since i lived on the west coast)
> After all if it worked you wouldn't need carriers at all, yet here they are...
It'd work fine in more dense areas. Probably not the higher band 5G stuff, but lower bands and 4G. There's no carrier incentive to do this, that's why OP said "mandated".
> After all if it worked you wouldn't need carriers at all, yet here they are...
It'd work fine in more dense areas. Probably not the higher band 5G stuff, but lower bands and 4G. There's no carrier incentive to do this, that's why OP said "mandated".
I'm not sure I'd call it a mesh. If you have both full control over all the nodes and monitoring from a central place, the problem is significantly simpler. Mesh typically implies independent/unpredictable actors and self reorganisation / self healing.
Centrally pushing new routes based on quality/load data is not it.
Centrally pushing new routes based on quality/load data is not it.
> Starlink is a mesh network
Are the inter-satellite links actually active yet? Last I heard Starlink satellites all still needed to be in range of a ground station (explaining the lack of ocean coverage for their marine service)
Are the inter-satellite links actually active yet? Last I heard Starlink satellites all still needed to be in range of a ground station (explaining the lack of ocean coverage for their marine service)
my internet exit point varies. Sometimes it's in TX, but the last time i checked i was exiting in Bellevue, WA. as opposed to any other provider around me which always exits from an F5 in Dallas-Fort Worth, TX.
I'm not sure this proves it, but i can't think of many reasons for that to be the case.
I'm not sure this proves it, but i can't think of many reasons for that to be the case.
Does any handset anywhere actually implement LTE Direct?
My understanding has been that it was specified for Public Safety LTE to have feature parity with TETRA.
Especially the infrastructure-less TETRA DMO Direct Mode Operation for ad-hoc communications with the trunking infrastructure down, out of range or over capacity.
And everybody in the Public Safety radio space seems to always laugh when LTE Direct is brought up. Apparently poorly specified and adopted by no vendors.
Especially the infrastructure-less TETRA DMO Direct Mode Operation for ad-hoc communications with the trunking infrastructure down, out of range or over capacity.
And everybody in the Public Safety radio space seems to always laugh when LTE Direct is brought up. Apparently poorly specified and adopted by no vendors.
How does LTE Direct impact battery-life? Seems like something that could obliterate a handset's battery in the space of an hour or so?
Digital Data Comms if needed:
Dial frequency 14.1023 USB
- at 1000Hz and 2000Hz for AFSK.300 (two channels for multiple access) - at 1500Hz for VARA or ARDOP OFDM
EMCOM Services available: Winlink RMS gateways, APRS HF Relays.
Manned Stations prepared on this frequency
IW2OHX - Italy Winlink EI2GYB-5 - Ireland - Winlink PE1RRR-8 - Netherlands - Winlink
It’s not much but it’s a network nexus with an insane number of backbone links for redundancy.
Software and setup tutorial:
https://eindhoven.space/radio-experiments/packet-radio/qtter...
Dial frequency 14.1023 USB
- at 1000Hz and 2000Hz for AFSK.300 (two channels for multiple access) - at 1500Hz for VARA or ARDOP OFDM
EMCOM Services available: Winlink RMS gateways, APRS HF Relays.
Manned Stations prepared on this frequency
IW2OHX - Italy Winlink EI2GYB-5 - Ireland - Winlink PE1RRR-8 - Netherlands - Winlink
It’s not much but it’s a network nexus with an insane number of backbone links for redundancy.
Software and setup tutorial:
https://eindhoven.space/radio-experiments/packet-radio/qtter...
I’ve created a portal in bash to allow HF access to emergency web content, here’s a demo of it going 900km loading HN.
https://youtu.be/5CN1nD_xciU
https://youtu.be/5CN1nD_xciU
This is super cool.
Do you have more details about hardware, software and radio interface?
my pactor modem doesn't do vara or ardop, are those more common around there? I do know that winlink does that in software modems (and iirc Vara costs money), but without a dedicated and maintained laptop or computer digital modes are fairly awful. Having/using hardware makes stuff like emcom less painful and require less attention.
Honestly very disappointed that phone makers haven't implemented radio in phones.
Am I too old? We did, but no one wants it (normally). It would require gov intervention to widespread require it.
We had the weird thing involving wired headphones, yes.
I hadn't realized this was something that was happening. My Oppo A53 (?) still has FM radio via head phones. Same with the Nokia 2710 flip.
Being someone that usually lives in the low end, I have never had a phone without FM.
Being someone that usually lives in the low end, I have never had a phone without FM.
A good rule of thumb is that if your phone has a headphone jack, it also has FM radio. And whether it has a headphone jack depends on whether the phone aims to be waterproof.
Waterproof phone = no headphone jack = no FM radio. There are some exceptions, but it's more often true than not.
Waterproof phone = no headphone jack = no FM radio. There are some exceptions, but it's more often true than not.
> Waterproof phone = no headphone jack
The Asus Zenfone 9 has a headphone jack and is rate IP68 (up to 1.5m for 30 mins):
* https://www.asus.com/mobile/phones/zenfone/zenfone-9/
* https://www.gsmarena.com/asus_zenfone_9-11656.php
The iPhone 14 Plus is also IP68 (up to 6m for 30 mins):
* https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_14_plus-11862.php
GSM Arena's search criteria shows >200 phones that have 3.5mm jacks and IPx8 IP Certification:
* https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3
The Asus Zenfone 9 has a headphone jack and is rate IP68 (up to 1.5m for 30 mins):
* https://www.asus.com/mobile/phones/zenfone/zenfone-9/
* https://www.gsmarena.com/asus_zenfone_9-11656.php
The iPhone 14 Plus is also IP68 (up to 6m for 30 mins):
* https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_14_plus-11862.php
GSM Arena's search criteria shows >200 phones that have 3.5mm jacks and IPx8 IP Certification:
* https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3
> GSM Arena's search criteria shows >200 phones that have 3.5mm jacks and IPx8 IP Certification
Released in last five years: 303 with IPx8 certification, out of which 122 also have a headphone jack.
So out of every three waterproof models, two don't have a headphone jack. Seems to support my rule of thumb.
Released in last five years: 303 with IPx8 certification, out of which 122 also have a headphone jack.
So out of every three waterproof models, two don't have a headphone jack. Seems to support my rule of thumb.
Your rule of thumb is wrong a third of the time which is a D grade.
Technically passing, I suppose.
Technically passing, I suppose.
Yes, that's what rule of thumb means.
It doesn't imply it's always the case, just more often than not. >60% is more often than not.
It doesn't imply it's always the case, just more often than not. >60% is more often than not.
I think you're a bit off on what rule of thumb means. Something that's false 1 out of 3 times is not "generally true".
If it was a 51/49 split in probability would you still call it a rule of thumb?
If it was a 51/49 split in probability would you still call it a rule of thumb?
> A good rule of thumb is that if your phone has a headphone jack, it also has FM radio
Another good rule of thumb, if your device was intended to be sold in the US, then the carrier had the radio disabled for anti-consumer reasons.
Another good rule of thumb, if your device was intended to be sold in the US, then the carrier had the radio disabled for anti-consumer reasons.
Every Samsung galaxy flagship from the S4 to the S10 had a headphone jack and was waterproof. This heuristic only works for recent models where headphone jack means it's a budget model and they've probably skimped on waterproofing.
How come different connector can be sealed but jack not?
They can, but it's much much cheaper to get rid of them altogether.
the USB connector is a box that is not open to the inside of the phone, at least every one i've seen. I've even seen a couple of phones where the box that held the USB connector also had a speaker in it. I guess a headphone jack could be put inside of a similar box, but the main difference is all the contacts in TRR plugs are spring metal that are attached to the outside of the plastic housing and poke through, and that's if the spec calls for any sort of reinforcement. The simplest headphone jacks are just spring metal in empty space.
radio in englisch is quite overloaded, what do you mean? an fm receiver? a shortwave transceiver (as is the case in the 10m band)? a vhf/uhf transceiver to participate in lpd/pmr/fmrs, 2m/70cm ham?
I believe in this context "radio" is "commercial radio", like what's available in a car.
My bet is countries having all kind of taxes, stamp fees etc when it comes to adding such features and phone makers not wanting to pay the fee. Or maybe it is a patent fee. Your device can support FM or can play radio? You need to pay 20 cents per device!
No, it's just that apple disabled it first and many others blindly followed. My samsung s10 still has FM radio (and phone jack). It's also energy efficient
Many phones had FM, but if you look the models for Verizon had FM disabled. The international versions had FM, AT&T had FM, Verizon didn't. They are also much more likely to lock their bootloader, and other anti-consumer things.
HTC Evo on Sprint 4G had an FM radio. Used the plug-in headphones for antenna.
The older Freestyle (IIRC) also had this. It was my first "smartphone" before I got a real smartphone. I actually kind of miss being able to listen to the radio that way. Not sure how well it'd work these days since most people use wireless headphones.
My Ulefone Power Armor 13 has FM radio and doesn't require headphones to be connected.
WiPhone is working on a LoRA module: https://wiphone.io/docs/LoRa/latest/
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They are implemented in the existing chips just not enabled in software. Qualcomm's ubiquitous LTE modem chip has FM radio baked in. There was a whole push by the FCC in the US as well as some FM broadcasters to mandate it be enabled. See:
"Your Phone Has An FM Chip. So Why can't you listen to the radio?":
https://archive.is/YMLsM#selection-1393.0-1393.64
and
"Dinosaur Broadcasters Turn to Congress to Mandate Their Relevance":
https://www.forbes.com/sites/garyshapiro/2012/06/06/dinosaur...
and
"Trump’s FCC chief wants it to be easier to listen to free FM radio on your smartphone":
https://www.vox.com/2017/2/16/14638304/trump-fcc-free-fm-rad...
"Your Phone Has An FM Chip. So Why can't you listen to the radio?":
https://archive.is/YMLsM#selection-1393.0-1393.64
and
"Dinosaur Broadcasters Turn to Congress to Mandate Their Relevance":
https://www.forbes.com/sites/garyshapiro/2012/06/06/dinosaur...
and
"Trump’s FCC chief wants it to be easier to listen to free FM radio on your smartphone":
https://www.vox.com/2017/2/16/14638304/trump-fcc-free-fm-rad...
Implemented? Or enabled?
I think it's because the antennas are different.
My old flip phone used the earphone as the antenna. The radio wouldn't work without it plugged in.
EDIT: It was a Nokia 6086, and the radio was an FM receiver.
https://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_6086-1798.php
https://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=1138
EDIT: It was a Nokia 6086, and the radio was an FM receiver.
https://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_6086-1798.php
https://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=1138
Anything that plugs into the head phone jack acts as the antenna.
Mesh is a bit like fusion research so
> phone makers haven't implemented radio in phones
It's a ragulation thing.
It's a ragulation thing.
is it? please provide proof. afaik it's a kneefall to Spotify/apple music/youtube music
it's a kneefall to Spotify/apple music/youtube music
That seems unlikely, radio (even Satellite radio) is not the same product as streaming music. My car has an AM/FM radio, the only thing I've ever used it for is tuning in to roadside traffic alerts when the sign is lit. The car came with 6 months of XM/Sirius satellite radio -- I tried out the Satellite Radio on a long road trip but didn't last a day before I went back to Spotify where I have full control over the music that's playing and can skip and rewind songs at will.
I don't think streaming music has anything to fear from FM radio on phones, I think the reason phones don't still offer it as a feature is because no one wants it.
That seems unlikely, radio (even Satellite radio) is not the same product as streaming music. My car has an AM/FM radio, the only thing I've ever used it for is tuning in to roadside traffic alerts when the sign is lit. The car came with 6 months of XM/Sirius satellite radio -- I tried out the Satellite Radio on a long road trip but didn't last a day before I went back to Spotify where I have full control over the music that's playing and can skip and rewind songs at will.
I don't think streaming music has anything to fear from FM radio on phones, I think the reason phones don't still offer it as a feature is because no one wants it.
I know about an Italian law from 2017 mandating that "all devices with FM radio must also receive Dab + services" [1]. Phones with only a FM chip obviously don't receive digital radio so I remember that as unintended (?) consequence Samsung was releasing updates to disable the chip. However the FM radio in my A40 still works.
[1] https://www.world-today-news.com/goodbye-to-fm-radio-on-smar...
[1] https://www.world-today-news.com/goodbye-to-fm-radio-on-smar...
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Interesting that they are using such a high frequency, I hope it serves them well.
Should be reasonably free of long range interference.
But surprised that there are no 3.5MHz/7MHz/14MHz band frequencies in use for regional communications. Or they have not been declared yet for emcom use like with Nepal and Puerto Rico.
But surprised that there are no 3.5MHz/7MHz/14MHz band frequencies in use for regional communications. Or they have not been declared yet for emcom use like with Nepal and Puerto Rico.
They will use separate bands for regional "nets", the net controllers will forward any necessary information to whoever is the regional emcom person, and that person will get the message out over the 28.540 (or whatever winlink frequencies.)
28.540 has the benefit that you can push it rather far on a modest antenna -at any hour - much like CB, and with digital modes you don't need to be able to "hear" it to copy and send copyable text. Most regional nets will be on VHF, UHF, or NVIS HF (the 3.5, 7, etc) depending on the conditions and time of day.
28.540 has the benefit that you can push it rather far on a modest antenna -at any hour - much like CB, and with digital modes you don't need to be able to "hear" it to copy and send copyable text. Most regional nets will be on VHF, UHF, or NVIS HF (the 3.5, 7, etc) depending on the conditions and time of day.
Once Turkiye's best mobile network (Turkcell) introduced a drone cell tower (never has been used, I think because of battery issues?):
https://www.telecomsinfrastructure.com/2019/07/dronecell-tur...
https://www.telecomsinfrastructure.com/2019/07/dronecell-tur...
At the moment, I am not getting any traffic on this channel. I am in central Italy, not far away, from a radio perspective, to Turkey.
I've made this comment here on HN before, but this reminds me of a tweet that I saw last year in which someone said:
"In breaking news moments like this, there should be a type of podcast you can listen to in real time, easily accessible for free."
To which someone replied: "Radio. You're thinking of radio."
https://twitter.com/jodyavirgan/status/1234998790139940865
It's always nice to see this technology (and the community) lean in to support disasters like this.
"In breaking news moments like this, there should be a type of podcast you can listen to in real time, easily accessible for free."
To which someone replied: "Radio. You're thinking of radio."
https://twitter.com/jodyavirgan/status/1234998790139940865
It's always nice to see this technology (and the community) lean in to support disasters like this.
I thought governments had stuff like that? During the pandemic, when I got into my car, I got a Radio message delivered by the police. Not sure if phones support stuff like that but the government can collaborate with network providers to send SMSes.
Radio does have the downside of being limited in range. I suppose it's alright because most breaking news is localized.
Many hand-cranked emergency radios can receive on the shortwave band (2-22MHz), like this one: https://www.amazon.com/Raynic-Emergency-Portable-Flashlight-...
Note that all portable multiband radios will have an antenna optimized for 87-108MHz. If you want to receive shortwave better you'll need to add a couple dozen feet of wire to the antenna: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortwave_broadband_antenna
Note that all portable multiband radios will have an antenna optimized for 87-108MHz. If you want to receive shortwave better you'll need to add a couple dozen feet of wire to the antenna: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortwave_broadband_antenna
couple alligator clips and a slinky toy will do in a pinch. although it is possible to construct a jam-proof and noise-reducing antenna for shortwave with a few strips of aluminum foil and some paper or wax paper (ideally). It lays flat on a floor or bed, and you "tune" it by moving the "frame" shape closer or further apart. there's a book involved.
It was used to have secret, covert, etc radios. It's believed to be used by assets in the field to receive numbers stations, especially when there's a lot of man made noise in the area.
It was used to have secret, covert, etc radios. It's believed to be used by assets in the field to receive numbers stations, especially when there's a lot of man made noise in the area.
You’re thinking of typical radio broadcasts. Hams use radio for intercontinental communication all the time.
During the outbreak of the Ukraine war, this role was taken up by Twitter Spaces.
Twitter Spaces... perhaps for people in the West with intellectual curiosity about the play by play.
For people on the ground it was Telegram groups and channels. "TG" is huge in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus.
For people on the ground it was Telegram groups and channels. "TG" is huge in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus.
It's really odd that people on HN see the world as west vs. Slavic countries.
The world is MUCH bigger than that, and telegram has much wider spread than that. But yes, twitter spaces is tiny fringe space even in the "west"(a term that always bothered me given how the world is round, and how Australia, New Zealand, and Japan are somehow part of "the West").
The world is MUCH bigger than that, and telegram has much wider spread than that. But yes, twitter spaces is tiny fringe space even in the "west"(a term that always bothered me given how the world is round, and how Australia, New Zealand, and Japan are somehow part of "the West").
For what it's worth, when I hear "the West" I think of what would on a global, historical scale be known as the "far west", i.e. mainly north and western Europe. (The "near west" would be the cultures just to the east of the Mediterranean, I suppose.)
I would never bunch Oceanic or Asian cultures in there.
I'm surprised to hear other people use it in a broader sense. At some point one is talking about cultures that are so different it's no longer meaningful to generalise across them.
I would never bunch Oceanic or Asian cultures in there.
I'm surprised to hear other people use it in a broader sense. At some point one is talking about cultures that are so different it's no longer meaningful to generalise across them.
in political context, "the West" is referring to the concept of "Western democracies"
I suppose that's because they are heavily influenced by western European countries. Two of the countries you mentioned are part of the British Commonwealth.
> a term that always bothered me given how the world is round
I have substituted "gesundheit" ("health") for "bless you" for this very reason.
Likewise. It's pretty amazing how widespread a German word such as this managed to become.
At some point gesundheit made it into the zeitgeist and I feel schadenfreude for the people who said it wouldn't.
Well if any German word isn't kaputt we should definitely borrow it into English.
Why not simply say "Health" then? How is cultural assimilation any better than a phrase that has not had religious connotations for a century and a half?
Sounds like a shortened "Your health!" which as a toast should be accompanied by all present having a charged glass in their hand.
Yeah, Twitter spaces is a tiny niche. I know nobody who has used them for anything, but almost everybody uses Telegram.
And I'm "In the West".
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How can I stream this?
Is it 28540KH?
From this site in Washington there's nothing - http://na5b.com:8901/
A site in France seemed to have nothing.
How close does it have to be?
[edit] I will say WebSDR is fucking cool. Closest I can see is http://94.137.189.166:8901/ Tbilisi - Georgia 500 miles away but doesn't have anything, unless I'm using this wrong.
Is it 28540KH?
From this site in Washington there's nothing - http://na5b.com:8901/
A site in France seemed to have nothing.
How close does it have to be?
[edit] I will say WebSDR is fucking cool. Closest I can see is http://94.137.189.166:8901/ Tbilisi - Georgia 500 miles away but doesn't have anything, unless I'm using this wrong.
there's a good chance you won't be able to hear it. If you're seeing a kiwisdr "web radio" it will have a waterfall. Zoom in so you can only see about 500kc on either side of 28.540, and fiddle with the settings. winlink radio sessions are bursty and quick.
here's a complete session to check my winlink mail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA6JRB560eM the actual transmission starts about a minute in, the first minute is my station waiting its turn
here's a complete session to check my winlink mail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA6JRB560eM the actual transmission starts about a minute in, the first minute is my station waiting its turn
the 10m band typically has a reach like line of sight. it is also very likely that many rescuers will broadcast simultaneously so a wide reach (like > 20 kms/miles) is actually not good
This is mild pedantry from me, sorry.
Fortunately, the 10m band these days has a reach of up to 11000km due to the solar activity. You are quite right that during LOS conditions it’s limited to the elevation of the antenna.
Its relatively small antenna needed (5m dipole) and can be used to access some distances, just not ones that might be in the same country as origin because of the skip dead zone from the ionospheric refraction angle. Which depending how it might be used, could be useful.
The general rule of thumb is to check the MUF Rating at the time of day collected from ionosondes such as that on https://prop.kc2g.com/
Fortunately, the 10m band these days has a reach of up to 11000km due to the solar activity. You are quite right that during LOS conditions it’s limited to the elevation of the antenna.
Its relatively small antenna needed (5m dipole) and can be used to access some distances, just not ones that might be in the same country as origin because of the skip dead zone from the ionospheric refraction angle. Which depending how it might be used, could be useful.
The general rule of thumb is to check the MUF Rating at the time of day collected from ionosondes such as that on https://prop.kc2g.com/
I'm not trained in emergency ham operations, but I assume they know what they are doing. They're a community which is enthusiastic about their utility in crisis, I mean this in a good way.
Some localities they are useful and some they get in the way. Emergency ham operation is not always required or welcome. It’s very specific to certain localities.
The radio thing is interesting but this is the first I am hearing of this quake, so here is a Reuters article with basic facts. Thousands of lives lost. A serious tragedy.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/major-earthquake-s...
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/major-earthquake-s...
Breaking news is rarely on HN (guidelines: "If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic."). So users don't submit it. It doesn't mean it's ignored by users. It's just assumed that people also read mainstream news websites besides HN already.
When breaking news makes it to HN that's when it's the most worrying
It was posted here, though likely rather quickly deranked. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34672314
Please, and I do not mean this offensively - I wish I could be as disengaged from world events as you are - can you tell me how you manage it? It used to be useful for me to be on top of everything, but I've been questioning that lately.
Not that person, but I'm the same way.
You just... stop caring. The only two good reasons to pay attention to news are if it affects you in some way, or if you can do anything about it. The vast majority of news is in neither group.
That's the first pass. From there, you adjust your definition of "affects you". I'm in the US, for example, and our government does plenty of bad things I do not approve of. But most of them, even the ones that ostensibly should affect me, don't actually noticeably change anything in my life. After a while, it all blurs into "my team scored a point" or "the other team scored a point".
Is this privileged? Of course. But it's also a requirement for my mental health. Paying attention to it wouldn't even improve anything for the people who are suffering, so there's not even any sort of utilitarian tradeoff. It would just be making my life worse for no reason, so I don't.
You just... stop caring. The only two good reasons to pay attention to news are if it affects you in some way, or if you can do anything about it. The vast majority of news is in neither group.
That's the first pass. From there, you adjust your definition of "affects you". I'm in the US, for example, and our government does plenty of bad things I do not approve of. But most of them, even the ones that ostensibly should affect me, don't actually noticeably change anything in my life. After a while, it all blurs into "my team scored a point" or "the other team scored a point".
Is this privileged? Of course. But it's also a requirement for my mental health. Paying attention to it wouldn't even improve anything for the people who are suffering, so there's not even any sort of utilitarian tradeoff. It would just be making my life worse for no reason, so I don't.
Works until it doesn't - see the high amount of dead Russian soldiers, especially the mobilised soldiers. They delegated political decisions until someone literally grabbed them from their workplace and sent them to die in a ditch. I.e. somewhere along the way they found out that despite them not having an interest in politics the politics found some serious interest in them.
Your personal opinions, feelings, thoughts, and emotions aren't going to matter in the least bit to someone who is going to send you off to die in their war.
You think the ones in Russia that followed the news are any better off?
Yes. They left the country.
Uh, absolutely. They saw the way things were going and fled the country before they could be pressganged.
Also this would not have happened had they actually acted on time and had they cared. The level of depoliticisation and degeneration of that society is insane. Consider the practice of hiring an ambulance to get through traffic quickly. Yes, it is a thing. Now you and me would think that it is completely unacceptable to abuse the system in such a way and protest. But many Russians see that and think "gee, I should have that kind of money too".
Timothy Snyder half-jokingly asks whether Russia is even a country. Sure, it exists as a state (for example it can wage a war, ineptly but still), however the civil society is nearly entirely demolished. It wasn't always so.
Timothy Snyder half-jokingly asks whether Russia is even a country. Sure, it exists as a state (for example it can wage a war, ineptly but still), however the civil society is nearly entirely demolished. It wasn't always so.
That passes both of our ancestor's tests:
- it affects you in some way
and
- you can do something about it
- it affects you in some way
and
- you can do something about it
I think this is helpful and honest. For example this kind of disengagement is much harder for my female friends of child birthing age in certain states, but it is also emotionally exhausting for them even when they feel like they can’t disengage because… yknow… lol
As someone in another often-politically-attacked group... yeah. It sucks when it's things that actually do affect you. Those are the times I'm glad I saved my mental energy so I can properly deal with it.
I'll admit to sometimes taking this too far and continuing to ignore things that I probably shouldn't. Eventually, someone mentions the actually important things to me, so I continue to get away with it.
I'll admit to sometimes taking this too far and continuing to ignore things that I probably shouldn't. Eventually, someone mentions the actually important things to me, so I continue to get away with it.
People are apparently really surprised but I simply had a busy day today. I have not been sleeping well so I was tired this morning. I woke up and worked on a programming problem that had been on my mind all weekend, listened to one of my favorite youtube channels that talks about news usually a day or two after it happens, posted an update on my programming project to mastodon without reading the feed, entertained my cat before leaving the house, ordered lunch from a local takeout place, made my partner a matcha latte, picked up lunch, brought my partner the matcha and gave them a beanie I knit last week, then drove to work listening to a couple podcasts. At work I got a delivery of circuit boards and I am now debugging a hardware problem and listening to the latest episode of Well There's Your Problem.
Idk one thing I do not ever do is open a website like CNN or NYT and read the front page. Please don't misunderstand that statement of fact as a judgement, but you asked about my media habits so I am sharing that. I will hear about major news events, as this very post makes clear. It seems I am hearing about this major earthquake in Turkey 14 hours or so after it happened... which seems fine. There is nothing I can do.
I tend to get news from youtube sources (not major outlets though) and these creators take a day or two to produce their videos. Sometimes I listen to Democracy Now or the KPFA evening news (available online), but I do not regularly consume that kind of thing. I am doing as much as I can to help the world with my little nonprofit thing. I learn about things like the police killing in Memphis police killing, the situation with the police training center outside of Georgia, and various foolish things politicians do. But I don't have much appetite for the firehose of details that come out of major news outlets.
Idk one thing I do not ever do is open a website like CNN or NYT and read the front page. Please don't misunderstand that statement of fact as a judgement, but you asked about my media habits so I am sharing that. I will hear about major news events, as this very post makes clear. It seems I am hearing about this major earthquake in Turkey 14 hours or so after it happened... which seems fine. There is nothing I can do.
I tend to get news from youtube sources (not major outlets though) and these creators take a day or two to produce their videos. Sometimes I listen to Democracy Now or the KPFA evening news (available online), but I do not regularly consume that kind of thing. I am doing as much as I can to help the world with my little nonprofit thing. I learn about things like the police killing in Memphis police killing, the situation with the police training center outside of Georgia, and various foolish things politicians do. But I don't have much appetite for the firehose of details that come out of major news outlets.
> Idk one thing I do not ever do is open a website like CNN or NYT and read the front page. Please don't misunderstand that statement of fact as a judgement, but you asked about my media habits so I am sharing that.
You're not the only one. I like only occupying my mind with stuff that affects me and I can do something about. Or things I can create.
I see more and more people around me doing the same by the way. A lot more since the pandemic, I think everyone got a bit fed up with bad news every day and after it was over started focusing more on the real life they'd been missing out on.
It's funny because when I was young everyone would sit down for the 8 o'clock news every day and most would read the paper in the morning. Now news is everywhere and I consume less of it than back then.
You're not the only one. I like only occupying my mind with stuff that affects me and I can do something about. Or things I can create.
I see more and more people around me doing the same by the way. A lot more since the pandemic, I think everyone got a bit fed up with bad news every day and after it was over started focusing more on the real life they'd been missing out on.
It's funny because when I was young everyone would sit down for the 8 o'clock news every day and most would read the paper in the morning. Now news is everywhere and I consume less of it than back then.
I also want to be direct with intent to offend. What is it about world events that demands your attention? Are outcomes going to be worse for your lack of awareness? Will people be hurt if you stop paying attention or be helped if you do?
I personally take a great interest in the challenges my local community faces because I can be directly and verifiably helpful.
I personally take a great interest in the challenges my local community faces because I can be directly and verifiably helpful.
Yup. National and world news is mostly a spectacle that lets us feel engaged even when there’s almost nothing of consequence gained from our rapt, immediate attention. If we get meaningfully involved at all, the extent of our consequential involvement is usually captured in a vote or a donation, and it usually takes all of a late minute’s briefing to catch up enough on a news item to hone in on how we’d proceed with those.
The easiest way to disengage is to humbly admit that you’re not important enough to matter very much to almost any issue on that stage, and that the people who do matter probably spend less time soaking up coverage about it than you do.
If you want to be anxious or have enthralling dinner party conversations about big events, by all means keep up your hobby. There’s sincerely nothing any more wrong with it than any other idle hobby.
But if you think the news is important and that your attention is a resource to invest in things that matter, look to the news from your family, your friends, and your community.
The easiest way to disengage is to humbly admit that you’re not important enough to matter very much to almost any issue on that stage, and that the people who do matter probably spend less time soaking up coverage about it than you do.
If you want to be anxious or have enthralling dinner party conversations about big events, by all means keep up your hobby. There’s sincerely nothing any more wrong with it than any other idle hobby.
But if you think the news is important and that your attention is a resource to invest in things that matter, look to the news from your family, your friends, and your community.
You can just not read the news. I generally don't, since I've found it rarely enhances my life.
Speaking personally, I just don't usually open Twitter or news sites while I'm at the office.
It's not that I don't care. (I do.) I just read everything at a digest at the end of the day. Most news doesn't require a real-time response. Trying to stay on top of everything happening, as it happens 24x7, just leads to emotional exhaustion.
If it's not something I have direct control over, I don't need a real-time feed of it. The news will still be there to read in the evening when I get home.
It's not that I don't care. (I do.) I just read everything at a digest at the end of the day. Most news doesn't require a real-time response. Trying to stay on top of everything happening, as it happens 24x7, just leads to emotional exhaustion.
If it's not something I have direct control over, I don't need a real-time feed of it. The news will still be there to read in the evening when I get home.
Yep, just don't check the news. Very little affects your day to day.
Grab the Sunday paper if you want to be periodically checked in. I think I'd be happier if I did this. I don't need to read the nyt opinion section every day, or what lie some congressman from New York just told.
I need to fold my clothes and schedule my vacation and research for work.
Grab the Sunday paper if you want to be periodically checked in. I think I'd be happier if I did this. I don't need to read the nyt opinion section every day, or what lie some congressman from New York just told.
I need to fold my clothes and schedule my vacation and research for work.
This happened quite recently: Had my head in a screen of code pretty much and first I heard of this. Shocked that I didn’t hear it over slack though.
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Thanks for this. I'm also hearing about it for the first time here and now.
I read the newspaper once a day in the morning, HN a couple of times during the day, that's it.
No other news or social media at all. I get a lot done. I recognize this lifestyle isn't for everyone.
I read the newspaper once a day in the morning, HN a couple of times during the day, that's it.
No other news or social media at all. I get a lot done. I recognize this lifestyle isn't for everyone.
It's okay. If you are in the West (Europe) you probably heard of this. If you are in the US or Australia, probably not. I am in SEA and no one has any idea of this going on. It goes the same way though, the Middle-East doesn't hear much about earthquakes in the Philippines or Indonesia.
The only exception I can think of is Japan. It seems everyone is aware of Japan earthquakes/Tsunamis.
The only exception I can think of is Japan. It seems everyone is aware of Japan earthquakes/Tsunamis.
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What newspaper do you read, that didn't cover this news today?
A printed copy of the FT that is delivered to my home. I'm sure that news of the quake will be in tomorrow morning's edition.
I’ve been commenting to my partner all day that it’s crazy how little this has shown up in social media without me actively looking for it by searching on Twitter. I think I saw maybe on post on FB all day and maybe 2 in my main Twitter feed. No company wide email from the thoughts and prayers crowd either. It’s been eerily silent for such a major disaster.
Interesting. For me, this started popping up last night all over facebook and instagram, and every major news outlet in Australia started talking about it during the night.
on fediverse you can search @[email protected] which is a bot that posts every earthquake that is reported. I saw a 4.5 magnitude sometime this weekend in that country. When i first saw the articles, i was a bit taken aback, both at the delay in reporting and that such a small earthquake had done so much destruction.
It is possible i am misremembering, but it could have been a fore-shock, as well.
Note: i don't watch fediverse or any social network enough to have seen any other reporting or whatever on this. My phone spammed me about it, the first such notification i've received this year, and i live in a Gulf state in the US.
It is possible i am misremembering, but it could have been a fore-shock, as well.
Note: i don't watch fediverse or any social network enough to have seen any other reporting or whatever on this. My phone spammed me about it, the first such notification i've received this year, and i live in a Gulf state in the US.
It’s front page news globally, I’m amazed you weren’t aware! Also trending Twitter etc…
I also didn't find out until this evening. I don't watch TV (only prerecorded series/movies), don't use Twitter at all, and I only really read tech news sites during the day. I don't even have a live TV subscription anymore. Most of it is just so commercial and crap and I was sick of paying for it. :) I have zero interest in sports. And I never do podcasts nor YouTube.
I generally just don't care enough about what happens in the world anymore, though this particular quake is really terrible of course. But there's nothing I can do about it.
Just once a day or so I might check the local newspaper website, for things that might affect me. Which is where I heard about it because something this big will make the front page even there.
But generally I don't miss the world news at all, I don't feel FOMO or less informed. I'm not a boring person either IMO, I just like being active in tech and the creative (maker) community, with things I can actually influence. I'm very interested in people I meet. It's more about taking control of information.
I do the same with instant messaging. I can be quite active but only on my terms. All my group chats are muted, and all but the most important people too. I'll see your messages eventually but when it suits me. If it was urgent you'd have called anyway.
It's good to know about this band assignment though as I'm also a HAM operator. But I don't use the 10m band that this frequency is on anyway.
I generally just don't care enough about what happens in the world anymore, though this particular quake is really terrible of course. But there's nothing I can do about it.
Just once a day or so I might check the local newspaper website, for things that might affect me. Which is where I heard about it because something this big will make the front page even there.
But generally I don't miss the world news at all, I don't feel FOMO or less informed. I'm not a boring person either IMO, I just like being active in tech and the creative (maker) community, with things I can actually influence. I'm very interested in people I meet. It's more about taking control of information.
I do the same with instant messaging. I can be quite active but only on my terms. All my group chats are muted, and all but the most important people too. I'll see your messages eventually but when it suits me. If it was urgent you'd have called anyway.
It's good to know about this band assignment though as I'm also a HAM operator. But I don't use the 10m band that this frequency is on anyway.
There's a certain calm that comes from closing the news sites and social networking feeds, and just checking everything as a digest at the end of the work day.
Staying informed is good, but there are relatively small number of things that need a reaction in real-time. Eventual consistency is sufficient, and frees cognitive cycles for things I have immediate influence over.
Staying informed is good, but there are relatively small number of things that need a reaction in real-time. Eventual consistency is sufficient, and frees cognitive cycles for things I have immediate influence over.
No need to be amazed. I have had a busy day, I don't use Twitter much anymore, and I haven't checked any news sites today. Anyway there were no comments and I just wanted to add context for anyone who missed it (like me).
Germany has a huge number of people who are either from Turkey or have relatives in Turkey and yet the media coverage of this was surprisingly low-key considering the number of casualties and that it's an ongoing crisis. It was hard to miss if you actually checked news sources but the sheer number of casualties and missing persons is easy to overlook from how it is being reported on.
I was deep into a hyper fixation hole at work today and crawled out of it only to hear about this tragedy. It felt pretty weird...
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The tech has already been proven—carriers just need to be mandated to add it because there's no business reason to do so.