YouTube using antipattern to force people enable history
68 comments
I was waiting for this feature for years!
I often go to youtube to find explaination to different things, but usually I ended up watching 10 other very interesting videos and even sometimes forgetting what for I came in the first place!
It's either a weak will of mine or great algorithms serving what I would love to watch. Now it's an easy game: only what I came for and no distractions!
Best move ever, YT!
I often go to youtube to find explaination to different things, but usually I ended up watching 10 other very interesting videos and even sometimes forgetting what for I came in the first place!
It's either a weak will of mine or great algorithms serving what I would love to watch. Now it's an easy game: only what I came for and no distractions!
Best move ever, YT!
The Unhook extension for Chrome [0] and Firefox [1] is a great way to keep yourself from falling into the YouTube blackhole.
[0] https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/unhook-remove-yout...
[1] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-recom...
[0] https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/unhook-remove-yout...
[1] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-recom...
It's unbelievable how effective this extension has been for me.
YouTube has become something I catch up with, just like RSS.
YouTube has become something I catch up with, just like RSS.
I love and share this view—whenever a website uses dark patterns like this to try and get me to do something I just close the website and thank them for helping me reduce my screen time!
indeed!
i only see subscriptions and videos i care about now. and through my subscriptions, i discover videos related to what i care about. they should do away with the home page all together for people who have watch history turned off.
best move ever!
i only see subscriptions and videos i care about now. and through my subscriptions, i discover videos related to what i care about. they should do away with the home page all together for people who have watch history turned off.
best move ever!
It’s true! Finally no recommendations, no pushed subscriptions, no tricks to subconsciously force me to keep watching. Now if only they could do the same in the video pages.
> and even sometimes forgetting what for I came in the first place!
I do that too but thankfully I have history enabled so I just check there.
I do that too but thankfully I have history enabled so I just check there.
And here I am thinking "I can disable the YouTube homepage by disabling history?? Sign me the fuck up!"
i thought the exact same thing. I've had the the watch history disabled for tiiiime and today i saw that i have no homepage and i went from 'this is strange' to 'wow i feel much better navigating youtube and i'm not feeling very angered or disappointed or distracted'
wow i feel much better navigating youtube
How do you navigate it? Does search start working once history is gone?
How do you navigate it? Does search start working once history is gone?
Search has always worked for me, but I mean the experience of going onto YouTube and then deciding what I want to watch. Instead of seeing a bunch of random stuff I don't care about I can just go directly to my subscription page without any noise.
I've found searching in an app like NewPipe to be loads better than searching on anything YouTube can create a fingerprint for (browser, in YT app). I get a lot of very helpful, low view count videos in DIY, programming, and research of old tech things.
I don't really care since I immediately switch to the subscriptions tab as soon as I open the app, and my bookmark on my desktop browser is set to subscriptions too.
Just another anti-user annoyance, like having to click 3 different menus to hand-pick a specific video quality on the app and having it not stored as your preference. Thankfully it's all fixed by Revanced.
By the way, a bug that I found a few minutes ago on YT for TV: if you're watching a video with subs on (manual subs, not autogenerated) and an ad rolls in, it switch to automatic subtitles for the ad, and then doesn't switch back when the ad is over.
Just another anti-user annoyance, like having to click 3 different menus to hand-pick a specific video quality on the app and having it not stored as your preference. Thankfully it's all fixed by Revanced.
By the way, a bug that I found a few minutes ago on YT for TV: if you're watching a video with subs on (manual subs, not autogenerated) and an ad rolls in, it switch to automatic subtitles for the ad, and then doesn't switch back when the ad is over.
I use FreeTube now, but when I used to go to Youtube, I used a plugin which was very bluntly titled Replace Youtube's Home with Subscriptions, which I recommend to all. The Youtube home page is a clear example of putting growth above user preference, and one of those reasons why everybody uses YT, but few people really ... like it.
You can long tap the app icon (depends on the launcher) to open the app shortcuts. One of them is to open the subscriptions tab. You can long tap + drag to move it to your desktop (again, depends on the launcher) so this way you can open YouTube directly to the subscriptions!
I didn't know this, thanks!
If you are not logged in to YouTube you get generic crappy recommendations, why not this for someone without history turned on?
I use the YouTube recommender extensively and understand the issues about getting increasing crap in recs. I really have no interest in fake science crap or conspiracy theory crap! So I aggressively "do not like" videos or channels that turn up with this junk. I'm not sure I could use YouTube without the recommender and would not use it if I got constant crap. The "do not like" tells the recommender not to send that particular type of crap and though more crap will inevitably drift in, the result is a pretty useful feature.
I use the YouTube recommender extensively and understand the issues about getting increasing crap in recs. I really have no interest in fake science crap or conspiracy theory crap! So I aggressively "do not like" videos or channels that turn up with this junk. I'm not sure I could use YouTube without the recommender and would not use it if I got constant crap. The "do not like" tells the recommender not to send that particular type of crap and though more crap will inevitably drift in, the result is a pretty useful feature.
That's pretty much what's been happening for the last decade. I turned off search history an age ago and I've had a slightly tailored (based on subscriptions) but mostly generic home page since them.
It's not a cas where they can't. They decide on this course of action.
On a related note, they already show an (almost) totally generic feed for Shorts. If you turn search history off, you see a lot of Andrew Tate, anti-trans, and "masculinity is under attack" messaging. It's disgusting to think that's what Google are showing to new sign users.
It's not a cas where they can't. They decide on this course of action.
On a related note, they already show an (almost) totally generic feed for Shorts. If you turn search history off, you see a lot of Andrew Tate, anti-trans, and "masculinity is under attack" messaging. It's disgusting to think that's what Google are showing to new sign users.
Very good move by YouTube, helps me avoid getting distracted and increases my overall happiness :)
I kind of like it this way. It’ll help me focus on watching what I came for and nothing more. I’m absolutely going to leave history off.
My main guess is that it uses a separate data pipeline to make those suggestions, and that that data pipeline is not cost effective.
Thus, they simplified it down to one recommendation tool, that uses history in it
Thus, they simplified it down to one recommendation tool, that uses history in it
But it worked fine with or without history enabled previously, and continues to work in other clients (like the Xbox client). Whether or not you believe it was malevolent, this was a user experience choice.
It’s weird since their homepage already showed suggested videos based on who you subscribed to. Not sure why they’d kill their metrics over watch history that you know they totally track anyways.
A half decent workaround is to enable watch history, watch one video, and then pause watch history again without clearing the video. For some reason this shows recommendations again
This sucks for smaller YouTubers. Discovery is everything.
Tell HN: YouTube requires watch history on for home screen https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37158674
Tell HN: YouTube is not showing home recommendations when watch history is off https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37157835
YouTube Will Display a Blank Home Feed If Your Watch History Is Turned Off https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37151135
YouTube will stop showing videos on the homepage if your watch history is off https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37066718
YouTube no longer suggests videos if your ‘watch history’ is turned off https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37058189
YouTube will stop showing videos on the homepage if your watch history is off https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37054233
YouTube will now show a blank homepage if you don’t have watch history on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37053817
Ash HN: YouTube home page blank when history is off https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36963702
YouTube Will Display a Blank Home Feed If Your Watch History Is Turned Off https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37151135
YouTube will stop showing videos on the homepage if your watch history is off https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37066718
YouTube no longer suggests videos if your ‘watch history’ is turned off https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37058189
YouTube will stop showing videos on the homepage if your watch history is off https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37054233
YouTube will now show a blank homepage if you don’t have watch history on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37053817
Ash HN: YouTube home page blank when history is off https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36963702
Sick of this. Like, OP, you're either paying attn or search or something. Day after day repeated posts
I was trying to find a way to provide feedback on this issue; but, I'm supposed to go to their YouTube forums to handle it, and the top voted post on those forums is how they've disabled posting on the forums for several months.
Use NewPipe, a massively better interface with features you actually want to use: https://newpipe.net
I won't be enabling it. And frankly I'm glad for one less wolf at the door of my attention.
Jokes on them: I'm very happy that slow loading and often useless display has been disabled on page load. It had a bad habit of recommending dozens of shows over five years old A QWLL. That option is staying off forever.
This is fine. Just makes me actually watch the stuff I subscribed too
Seems pretty benign as far as dark patterns go.
Once in a while HN provides absolute gems. Would never have known about this anti procrastination feature otherwise!
Its very rare that anyone should consume youtube directly. RSS feeds of subscribed channels are the way to go, then you direct link to videos you want and it makes it easy to switch to an alternate provider if youtube breaks the channel. Its dead simple to set this up with freshrss, for example.
the hilarious thing is that this pattern is orthogonal to their "mini player" feature which is supposed to keep your video playing while you are browsing.
now you have a "mini player" on an almost blank page.
now you have a "mini player" on an almost blank page.
I don't think openly asking you to enable history is a dark pattern, at all. that doesn't matter, though.
so, seems to me that what they're doing is encouraging users to watch more videos, so Google can serve more ads, and thus increase revenue.
Surely they understand that this has to end at some point, right? They keep taking steps to get users to watch more, so they can serve more ads, "earning" more money from advertisers. Users will continue to resist changes like this, which will encourage Google to get more aggressive about getting people to "play along" which will push more users away, and so on.
at some point, SURELY, Google will understand that previous growth rates are impossible to sustain, right? and that this is a normal thing when you have an entire market completely and totally dominated across all demographics? Right?
Like, how far are they going to go? until every last video on the Internet is served by them? until everyone either pays for YT Premium or watches 6 ads every 90 seconds?
They understand that they are just creating a dystopia so that people click ads, right? They obviously know, because they measure the performance of the company by how many people watch ads, click on ads, and pay for YT Premium. So they're aware that they're creating something unsustainable and they're doing it anyway? for a good evaluation on their performance review?
what the fuck?
"Successfully wore down enough people so they stopped blocking ads and watched more videos served with ads, wasting literally millions of person-hours per year, and lowering the quality of life for those users so that value can be extracted from their activities more completely, all for the glory of Google quarterly reports."
at this point, if you work for any company that puts ads in front of people's eyes, please sit down for a minute and think about how you'll feel after retirement when you recount how you spent your gift of time on Earth. Ask yourself if you are proud of what you have done in exchange for the meager raises you have earned. Is that the best way you could have spent your time? Really? Think about what you've done when you want to watch something on television or in the theater, or even in a book, and you get annoyed by ads which you know were put there solely to "capture value from users." think about how enjoyable it is for you to be a user who is having a penny's worth of value extracted, and ask yourself if 20 minutes of your life per hour of television time is worth that penny you provided someone.
so, seems to me that what they're doing is encouraging users to watch more videos, so Google can serve more ads, and thus increase revenue.
Surely they understand that this has to end at some point, right? They keep taking steps to get users to watch more, so they can serve more ads, "earning" more money from advertisers. Users will continue to resist changes like this, which will encourage Google to get more aggressive about getting people to "play along" which will push more users away, and so on.
at some point, SURELY, Google will understand that previous growth rates are impossible to sustain, right? and that this is a normal thing when you have an entire market completely and totally dominated across all demographics? Right?
Like, how far are they going to go? until every last video on the Internet is served by them? until everyone either pays for YT Premium or watches 6 ads every 90 seconds?
They understand that they are just creating a dystopia so that people click ads, right? They obviously know, because they measure the performance of the company by how many people watch ads, click on ads, and pay for YT Premium. So they're aware that they're creating something unsustainable and they're doing it anyway? for a good evaluation on their performance review?
what the fuck?
"Successfully wore down enough people so they stopped blocking ads and watched more videos served with ads, wasting literally millions of person-hours per year, and lowering the quality of life for those users so that value can be extracted from their activities more completely, all for the glory of Google quarterly reports."
at this point, if you work for any company that puts ads in front of people's eyes, please sit down for a minute and think about how you'll feel after retirement when you recount how you spent your gift of time on Earth. Ask yourself if you are proud of what you have done in exchange for the meager raises you have earned. Is that the best way you could have spent your time? Really? Think about what you've done when you want to watch something on television or in the theater, or even in a book, and you get annoyed by ads which you know were put there solely to "capture value from users." think about how enjoyable it is for you to be a user who is having a penny's worth of value extracted, and ask yourself if 20 minutes of your life per hour of television time is worth that penny you provided someone.
I wish you could disable Shorts! Most stupid thing ever.
They're pretty easy to filter on desktop with uBlock Origin
I've been playing a game of cat and mouse, it's disgusting how much they're pushed IMO
Every couple weeks I have to change the filter
I've been playing a game of cat and mouse, it's disgusting how much they're pushed IMO
Every couple weeks I have to change the filter
Because the feature doesn't work without it?
A month ago it didn't work that way. You used to be able to disable watch history and have it base recommendations on your subscriptions, liked/disliked content, etc.
What videos would they recommend to you anyway?
The same ones they used to? They can surface up videos from channels you’re subbed to that you haven’t watched. They could show you videos you started to watch like netflix does. They could show next up for playlists. Lots of options if they actually cared about their product and not just getting you into an algorithm loop
> They can surface up videos from channels you’re subbed to that you haven’t watched. They could show you videos you started to watch like netflix does.
All of those things depend on tracking your viewing history.
All of those things depend on tracking your viewing history.
It could also show you videos that are trending and watched by people that are subbed to the same things you're subbed to. They definitely have that information. Or old videos of people you're subbed to and haven't upvoted or downvoted or whatever.
This *was* a very powerful and useful feature they've ripped from us.
This *was* a very powerful and useful feature they've ripped from us.
Mysteriously I'm also seeing videos I already watched(!) and what I can only imagine is videos that someone paid to promote and Google doesn't care I'm not remotely the target audience
They could show what's popular across the platform, what's new and/or popular in your subscriptions, etc.
Do users here actually want youtube to show you "what's popular across the platform" i.e. the default youtube homepage?
I do, but on closer thought, perhaps I shouldn't
It's good in the "I just want to peruse and find something unusual/interesting" sense
If nothing else, absently happening across what's new or popular
It's a massive time sink and probably best spent elsewhere
It's good in the "I just want to peruse and find something unusual/interesting" sense
If nothing else, absently happening across what's new or popular
It's a massive time sink and probably best spent elsewhere
I wish they'd recommend me local videos or videos about my area.
same as for non-logged in users, namely popular for various categories
I uninstalled the app, browse youtube anonymously, and periodically clear cookies. My browser has all the history I need.
Correction: If your display of the videos from your history is off. I am sure they are still logging them.
I'm not so sure. I got called out on this theory. It would violate GDPR and stuff.
Most articles I can find seem convinced that if you disable YouTube history, it's disabled and not logged. If you delete it, it's deleted and it's gone.
I suppose Google could secretly or surreptitiously log it and save it, but nobody seems able to prove that.
There are certainly a lot of other trails left. Any link, dislike, or comment you leave is a historical marker. Every URL you visit goes into your browser history, so is that disabled too? All your DNS queries, though these won't pinpoint individual videos.
Most articles I can find seem convinced that if you disable YouTube history, it's disabled and not logged. If you delete it, it's deleted and it's gone.
I suppose Google could secretly or surreptitiously log it and save it, but nobody seems able to prove that.
There are certainly a lot of other trails left. Any link, dislike, or comment you leave is a historical marker. Every URL you visit goes into your browser history, so is that disabled too? All your DNS queries, though these won't pinpoint individual videos.
Still they didn't got me lol
I use revanced on my phone I don't even know what YouTube is supposed to look like.
Best thing youtube did. I don't get pulled in any direction mentally.
I'm not sure it's a trick.
It's just a thing IMO.
It's just a thing IMO.
[dupe]
Tell HN:
did you mean Dark Pattern?
[deleted]
Why would you ever even log into youtube?!
Many reasons. Subscriptions, saved videos, upload videos
You can use RSS/Atom instead of subscribe
Any ideas why are they using this trick?