The Ingenious Cardboard Bed(newatlas.com)
newatlas.com
The Ingenious Cardboard Bed
https://newatlas.com/good-thinking/ingenious-cardboard-bed/
117 comments
From past experience, NGOs are rarely buying the cheapest things available off Alibaba. They tend to work with large, enterprise-y vendors, which certainly don't charge that way (regardless of the ultimate source of the goods).
Also, this piece is specifically about the resources that are used in the initial 24-48h of deployment, when the camp beds are still sitting in a warehouse half a continent away. If you can use closest packaging factory to pump out designs within hours of the disaster, that's actually really useful.
Also, this piece is specifically about the resources that are used in the initial 24-48h of deployment, when the camp beds are still sitting in a warehouse half a continent away. If you can use closest packaging factory to pump out designs within hours of the disaster, that's actually really useful.
> From past experience, NGOs are rarely buying the cheapest things available off Alibaba. They tend to work with large, enterprise-y vendors, which certainly don't charge that way (regardless of the ultimate source of the goods).
Of course. Did you think NGOs were there to benefit others? That is just words. They take a more administrative role for managing things - but do so with a charitable status, to lessen the tax burden. Look at any of these foundations - Bill and Melinda Gates, or whatever - these organisations are simply undertaking the preparatory work, to assist greater corporate control.
Of course. Did you think NGOs were there to benefit others? That is just words. They take a more administrative role for managing things - but do so with a charitable status, to lessen the tax burden. Look at any of these foundations - Bill and Melinda Gates, or whatever - these organisations are simply undertaking the preparatory work, to assist greater corporate control.
It's mostly militaries and NGOs like the Red Cross that handle rapid disaster response, so I think clarifying that NGOs don't buy random stuff off AliExpress is a valid response to someone asking why they're paying more than AliExpress prices.
The AliExpress comment is meant to be indicative of the approximate global wholesale price for the type of product being compared against. The article claims it’s as much as $200 at quantities of 1000, which simply is not true in the real world, where it is more like $10-20.
If it’s an innovation to be able to provide a cardboard bed at a production cost of $17 each, then surely it would also be worthwhile in some cases for NGOs to consider cutting their cost base even lower for a more reusable product.
If it’s an innovation to be able to provide a cardboard bed at a production cost of $17 each, then surely it would also be worthwhile in some cases for NGOs to consider cutting their cost base even lower for a more reusable product.
Its a virtue signalling advertisement for a cardboard bed subscription service to these NGOs. Just give people durable beds. The cardboard beds would be broken after the first use. Just more garbage. Not very eco. Like you said, tube and canvas beds are durable and can be reused. What those cardboard bed makers are after is a subscription service.
Subscription services and charities looking for the minimal definition of "bed". Countless charities will buy these and then claim to be "buying X beds to refugees". After some creative accounting a flatpack of cardboard, or an online order for a flatpack of cardboard, will become a thousand-dollar tax deduction for donating a "bed" to some refugee fund. If any are ever actually delivered, i suspect they will be put to better use as kindling.
>Also, why on earth would we be manufacturing new beds for each new occupant in every case?
I can think of multiple scenarios: disaster relief is often staged in temporary regions where the most important thing - once the humans have rested - is to evacuate the region, and - also important, leave the beds behind, i.e. pandemic situations, mass casualty events, etc.
In addition, it should not be overlooked that the beds can be used as an energy source, so if you air-drop 100 of them to a camp site with 10 victims and 15 responders, they also have something to feed into the kettles while they triage/evacuate.
>Tube and canvas camp beds are durable and reusable.
In certain response scenarios, this is a liability - i.e. have to be portaged in and out. These cardboard beds could probably survive rather a longer fall from the back of a helicopter or out the back of a speeding emergency response vehicle.
>Humanitarian work should be praised, but not if it’s counterproductive self-congratulation.
I'm not sure the depth of your critique of this device matches the breadth of its potential application - the extension of which is, after all, the purpose of these kinds of "puff piece"'s .. but I would like to point out that insulting comments are a dime a dozen - whereas a creative conjecture might actually prove a bit more fruitful - especially in the humanitarian context.
I can think of multiple scenarios: disaster relief is often staged in temporary regions where the most important thing - once the humans have rested - is to evacuate the region, and - also important, leave the beds behind, i.e. pandemic situations, mass casualty events, etc.
In addition, it should not be overlooked that the beds can be used as an energy source, so if you air-drop 100 of them to a camp site with 10 victims and 15 responders, they also have something to feed into the kettles while they triage/evacuate.
>Tube and canvas camp beds are durable and reusable.
In certain response scenarios, this is a liability - i.e. have to be portaged in and out. These cardboard beds could probably survive rather a longer fall from the back of a helicopter or out the back of a speeding emergency response vehicle.
>Humanitarian work should be praised, but not if it’s counterproductive self-congratulation.
I'm not sure the depth of your critique of this device matches the breadth of its potential application - the extension of which is, after all, the purpose of these kinds of "puff piece"'s .. but I would like to point out that insulting comments are a dime a dozen - whereas a creative conjecture might actually prove a bit more fruitful - especially in the humanitarian context.
A couple criticisms of this, having been in more than a few rough parts of the world including refugee camps:
1. Cardboard will almost certainly soak up the liquids and smells of a place like a refugee camp, which are typically not in nice flat, dry warehouses. This is bad when you need to be able to clean/sterilize the beds. Structurally, once these are soaked I imagine they're unusable again.
2. Not sure about those corners; these beds become your home and your 'zone' and you spend a LOT of time there, often sitting upright; I wouldn't want to plop down on one of those. Also, most people don't lay perfectly flat – and they often have a child with them which could create an imbalance.
3. Storage. Crime in refugee camps is rampant; folks often use the cots with legs as 'storage' and drape blankets over their personal goods to conceal them – especially important if you have kids, traveling with your most valuable currency, critical paperwork, etc.
4. Fire hazard which is SUBSTANTIAL in these scenarios.
I like the idea and I see where they might be helpful, but I could think of a handful of design changes that might make it a lot better.
a) It's basically a 'flat pack' design and I'd imagine there's other materials out there that might be more stable/durable/lightweight.
b) Probably we could spend some time thinking through the geometry, for example, adding 'feet' at the far corners might make it more stable on uneven ground.
1. Cardboard will almost certainly soak up the liquids and smells of a place like a refugee camp, which are typically not in nice flat, dry warehouses. This is bad when you need to be able to clean/sterilize the beds. Structurally, once these are soaked I imagine they're unusable again.
2. Not sure about those corners; these beds become your home and your 'zone' and you spend a LOT of time there, often sitting upright; I wouldn't want to plop down on one of those. Also, most people don't lay perfectly flat – and they often have a child with them which could create an imbalance.
3. Storage. Crime in refugee camps is rampant; folks often use the cots with legs as 'storage' and drape blankets over their personal goods to conceal them – especially important if you have kids, traveling with your most valuable currency, critical paperwork, etc.
4. Fire hazard which is SUBSTANTIAL in these scenarios.
I like the idea and I see where they might be helpful, but I could think of a handful of design changes that might make it a lot better.
a) It's basically a 'flat pack' design and I'd imagine there's other materials out there that might be more stable/durable/lightweight.
b) Probably we could spend some time thinking through the geometry, for example, adding 'feet' at the far corners might make it more stable on uneven ground.
The soaking and required dry floor critique is a significant factor.
The "wouldn't want to plop down on one of those" point might be imagined, the article asserts that:
As for Storage - these are literally flip top (unfloored) "boxes" - lifting the top reveals a walled interior, easily as 'safe' | 'secure' as a stuff on a bed with a blanket over the top.
The "wouldn't want to plop down on one of those" point might be imagined, the article asserts that:
In Humanitaria's cardboard bed design, the cardboard bed can support up to 350 kilograms of weight, well above the 150 kilograms supported by the usual camping beds used by NGOs.
As for Storage - these are literally flip top (unfloored) "boxes" - lifting the top reveals a walled interior, easily as 'safe' | 'secure' as a stuff on a bed with a blanket over the top.
Just clean the floor and give them the mat you would put on the box. This is also a more robust and less wasteful method. They could instead make shelving and that would beore.usefull in a shelter
it’s not very clear, but i think this is without a matress, like a camping cot
it’s worth doing this because it raises the person up from the floor which if concrete drains heat quickly, or is less sanitary, and helps caregivers not bend down as much
it’s worth doing this because it raises the person up from the floor which if concrete drains heat quickly, or is less sanitary, and helps caregivers not bend down as much
It may seem less wasteful for someone who is rather limber, but it is not practical when some people have difficulty getting down onto or up off of the floor, particularly as we age.
If you're having that problem, look into DDPY yoga, they have a whole section on how to get up off the floor when you're not young and limber.
A floor can get relatively cold, and may act as a heat sink.
Sometimes there are bugs on the ground.
having slept on a mat on the floor for ~1 year until I dislocated my spouse's shoulder throwing a cockroach off the bed in a sleepy panic, I would strongly suggest against it.
Are you trying to say this wouldn’t have happened in another bed?
I’m not sure how being raised off the floor would change things.
I’m not sure how being raised off the floor would change things.
yes, they're way less likely to crawl up. only ever had it happen on the floor
yeah I wonder why they don't do that. must have a reason?
Practical (bending down is harder), sanitary (the dirt is usually on the floor), safety (connecting any medical equipment is more dangerous, administering drugs is awkward and also more dangerous), etc. It's hard to impress some people with innovation.
Well bending all the way down to the floor is much more difficult for caregivers, for one thing.
I am surprised that cardboard (corrugated fibreboard) furniture is not more common. It is an impressively durable and strong material despite its low cost. We could all have the option of cheap, lightweight, easy-to-move, utilitarian, eco-friendly furniture. There are only a few companies, like https://www.chairigami.com/ , that produce such furniture.
Bugs.
Cockroaches and similar bugs love to lay eggs in the corrugation. It’s dark, may be slightly damp, and well protected. Also it’s practically impossible to tell until they have hatched. If you look up people raising big populations they often use corrugated board as an egg substrate.
Cockroaches and similar bugs love to lay eggs in the corrugation. It’s dark, may be slightly damp, and well protected. Also it’s practically impossible to tell until they have hatched. If you look up people raising big populations they often use corrugated board as an egg substrate.
IKEA has some pieces, such as the lack table (https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/lack-side-table-white-30449908/).
This bloody table... it's everywhere and it chips and disintegrates under slightest stress. One expects to be able to sit on a table at least. Be careful what you wish for when asking for a "furnished apartment".
Yah this table is awful. But it is $14 I guess. Lol.
> There are only a few companies, like https://www.chairigami.com/ , that produce such furniture.
As someone moving quite a bit at the moment and looking for cheap, quick, recyclable furniture, I was excited, but Chairigami was quite disappointing.
It seems extremely expensive for what it is? I know how much cardboard costs, with markup, and this is a long way off. Their profit margin on this furniture must be vast. Not exactly the accessibility that I was expecting.
Others have mentioned the issues with this sort of construction and that all limits lifespan. Even the thin veneers that Ikea put on top of cardboard furniture will improve lifespan by multiples, and yet Ikea is typically priced significantly lower than Chairigami.
I can only conclude that Chairigami is effectively conducting a form of virtue-signalling. They're luxury goods – vast profit margins resting on design and "vibes" – rather than disruptive goods changing accessibility environmental responsibility for the masses.
As someone moving quite a bit at the moment and looking for cheap, quick, recyclable furniture, I was excited, but Chairigami was quite disappointing.
It seems extremely expensive for what it is? I know how much cardboard costs, with markup, and this is a long way off. Their profit margin on this furniture must be vast. Not exactly the accessibility that I was expecting.
Others have mentioned the issues with this sort of construction and that all limits lifespan. Even the thin veneers that Ikea put on top of cardboard furniture will improve lifespan by multiples, and yet Ikea is typically priced significantly lower than Chairigami.
I can only conclude that Chairigami is effectively conducting a form of virtue-signalling. They're luxury goods – vast profit margins resting on design and "vibes" – rather than disruptive goods changing accessibility environmental responsibility for the masses.
There is an obscene amount of wealth being amassed while masking as virtue-signalling.
So many eco-friendly product variations at an unacceptable markup vs. production cost, and people are gobbling it all up without blinking, while being lightning-fast at pointing fingers at someone who tossed a tin can in the wrong recycle bin.
I think there should be more whistleblowing going around, personally it irks me how many people are profiteering from the eco movement.
So many eco-friendly product variations at an unacceptable markup vs. production cost, and people are gobbling it all up without blinking, while being lightning-fast at pointing fingers at someone who tossed a tin can in the wrong recycle bin.
I think there should be more whistleblowing going around, personally it irks me how many people are profiteering from the eco movement.
This is so true. Another example is the many packaging-free/plastic-free shops cropping up in cities. I can buy a plastic packet of oats for £0.80 for 1kg, or I can buy without a packet at one of those shops for £5/kg. Same for rice. Same for flour. etc.
No one is going to have an impact on the environment charging >5x for products because no one in their right mind will switch, especially for undifferentiated commodities like food basics. These shops are only appealing to people with too much money and too little sense.
There are a few cases where products actually do need to be priced higher to price in all the externalities that aren't being accounted for at the moment, but even in those cases I believe that meeting consumers where they're at right now, providing value and changing behaviour, and then advocating for change when you have market share, is likely to be a much better approach in the long run.
No one is going to have an impact on the environment charging >5x for products because no one in their right mind will switch, especially for undifferentiated commodities like food basics. These shops are only appealing to people with too much money and too little sense.
There are a few cases where products actually do need to be priced higher to price in all the externalities that aren't being accounted for at the moment, but even in those cases I believe that meeting consumers where they're at right now, providing value and changing behaviour, and then advocating for change when you have market share, is likely to be a much better approach in the long run.
I just checked their website and their prices are insane. $250 for a cardboard bookcase? I can get significantly nicer stuff for less than that at a bunch of other places.
Lol they say their 3 ply cardboard is the important part.
I might have to make my own furniture. https://www.packagewarehouse.com/boxes/cardboard-boxes/corru...
I might have to make my own furniture. https://www.packagewarehouse.com/boxes/cardboard-boxes/corru...
Interestingly 4x8 1/2" OSB at my Home Depot is the same price as their 4x8 sheets: https://www.homedepot.com/b/Lumber-Composites-Plywood/1-2/N-...
Plus, fewer cockroaches per this appealing comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37722691
Plus, fewer cockroaches per this appealing comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37722691
As others have said, IKEA has been making furniture out of cardboard for years. Cut into the wrong bit of any of their cheap melamine faced furniture and it's just corrugated cardboard inside. They use little bits of chipboard here and there for stronger joints.
Personally I hate that kind of furniture. When furniture made of chipboard, particle board, fibreboard etc is damaged it's basically scrap. Real wood ages nicely - it's more robust to start with and the damage it does take often adds to the aesthetic.
I've been slowly getting rid of chipboard furniture, replacing it with pieces that stand on their own. A 70 year old table, a 100 year old coffee table, or building it myself from nice wood. It's lovely when your furniture brings you joy.
Personally I hate that kind of furniture. When furniture made of chipboard, particle board, fibreboard etc is damaged it's basically scrap. Real wood ages nicely - it's more robust to start with and the damage it does take often adds to the aesthetic.
I've been slowly getting rid of chipboard furniture, replacing it with pieces that stand on their own. A 70 year old table, a 100 year old coffee table, or building it myself from nice wood. It's lovely when your furniture brings you joy.
Same here! Solid wood furniture, despite being more expensive and considerably heavier, is just so much nicer. You can cut into them to modify them, you can sand them down and refinish them, and they don't turn to scrap as soon as someone dings it or god forbid you tighten a screw too hard..
An extra component to the whole thing is fire safety. Compared to proper wood furniture these fiber- and cardboard pieces are much more flammable. It's to the point where fire departments are considering new guidelines for leaving burning buildings because the time to raging fire has been shortened so much by modern furniture and fabrics.
An extra component to the whole thing is fire safety. Compared to proper wood furniture these fiber- and cardboard pieces are much more flammable. It's to the point where fire departments are considering new guidelines for leaving burning buildings because the time to raging fire has been shortened so much by modern furniture and fabrics.
Water/dampness might be an issue?
It's because if they get wet at all they are destroyed.
Just go to Ikea if you want your bed made out of cardboard
If you want expensive cardboard furniture simply buy it at IKEA.
> In Humanitaria's cardboard bed design, the cardboard bed can support up to 350 kilograms of weight, well above the 150 kilograms supported by the usual camping beds used by NGOs.
That's enough for.. menage a trois where each participant weighs 257 lbs. Impressive if true.
Wasn't there something about the cardboard beds at the Olympics not holding up and collapsing from a regular pounding by 2 people? Most Olympians don't weigh even 200 lbs.
That's enough for.. menage a trois where each participant weighs 257 lbs. Impressive if true.
Wasn't there something about the cardboard beds at the Olympics not holding up and collapsing from a regular pounding by 2 people? Most Olympians don't weigh even 200 lbs.
If you like this watch the 'Japanology' episode about cardboard. It's free on the NHK app on Apple TV. Thats where I first learned of this and all the other amazing carboard things they make in Japan.
I wonder how they do the 350kg load test. I can't imagine the corners of the flat piece will support very much weight at all.
I noticed that in the photos they're all sitting above the bit where the reinforcements are at the edge of the bed. I couldn't see any reinforcement in the middle, ~but there might be some on more detailed plans~ the videos on their site don't show any support either, but I am willing to believe that the load can be distributed by the pair of cardboard sheets.
You would hope that the 350kg is from a point load in the middle of the bed. If anyone finds out, I would also be interested to know.
You would hope that the 350kg is from a point load in the middle of the bed. If anyone finds out, I would also be interested to know.
"The cost of 1,000 beds for a refugee camp ranges from €100,000 to €200,000 (US$110 to $220) a bed"
What? Has nobody involved with this article ever seen a military camp? A military cot is setup in seconds, can be shipped basically instantly, will not disintegrate in contact with water, and has served millions of soldiers well for decades. Amazon can deliver one to my house for less than 100$. If you need beds for people, dont obsesse over labels. It doesnt matter whether it is sold as a bed or as a cot. What matters is having a safe place to put it.
What? Has nobody involved with this article ever seen a military camp? A military cot is setup in seconds, can be shipped basically instantly, will not disintegrate in contact with water, and has served millions of soldiers well for decades. Amazon can deliver one to my house for less than 100$. If you need beds for people, dont obsesse over labels. It doesnt matter whether it is sold as a bed or as a cot. What matters is having a safe place to put it.
In the choice between sponsoring the costs of $100*1000 beds plus chartering planes and logistics personnel to bring them from wherever they may be warehoused, or calling up packaging manufacturers and truckers close to the disaster site to churn out and ship pallets of beds in hours, it's a no-brainer.
Have you ever worked in logistics? Products don't magically materialize when you click "Order now" on a website. They either have to be stored somewhere (somehow always inconvenient vs where you want them to be) or manufactured to order.
The reason the military is so good at this is because they learned in WWII that winning wars is largely a matter of logistics and attrition. Their movements are planned weeks or months in advance and they're constantly shipping things around to accommodate those plans. (Ironically this made them vulnerable to guerrilla warfare and its emphasis on stochastic sabotage tactics, which is why they lost in Vietnam and the Middle East, but that's besides the point.) Commercial logistics systems don't have this kind of central planning because of the fetishism around market forces so you are at the whim of whoever has the stuff you want (or the means of production) when you want it.
Have you ever worked in logistics? Products don't magically materialize when you click "Order now" on a website. They either have to be stored somewhere (somehow always inconvenient vs where you want them to be) or manufactured to order.
The reason the military is so good at this is because they learned in WWII that winning wars is largely a matter of logistics and attrition. Their movements are planned weeks or months in advance and they're constantly shipping things around to accommodate those plans. (Ironically this made them vulnerable to guerrilla warfare and its emphasis on stochastic sabotage tactics, which is why they lost in Vietnam and the Middle East, but that's besides the point.) Commercial logistics systems don't have this kind of central planning because of the fetishism around market forces so you are at the whim of whoever has the stuff you want (or the means of production) when you want it.
Imagine how much more durable it would be if they waxed the cardboard. Prolly make it non-recyclable tho.
Makes me suspect the point of the effort is not the people using the product. The sales literature here is certainly aimed at the people who want to purchase lack of concern for details like utility, along with their humanitarian donations.
Edit: makes me wonder what the cardboard "shipper coffins" cost. it appears the funeral industry keeps the prices high but it seems like any box company should be able to slap these together, with custom printing, at competitive prices.
Makes me suspect the point of the effort is not the people using the product. The sales literature here is certainly aimed at the people who want to purchase lack of concern for details like utility, along with their humanitarian donations.
Edit: makes me wonder what the cardboard "shipper coffins" cost. it appears the funeral industry keeps the prices high but it seems like any box company should be able to slap these together, with custom printing, at competitive prices.
Todays coffins are sponsored by RAGE SHADOW LEGENDS
...lord take me now
...lord take me now
Are commenters here intentionally ignoring the point or just not bothering to read the article closely enough to get it?
The first 24-48 hours of disaster relief invariably sees a need for a field hospital and temporary accommodations to be set up. Other NGOs will be flying in with more semi-permanent solutions (days, weeks, months) while the first responders are setting up. This product is for the first responders. If you can address a 1000-bed need immediately (injuries being expected to be distributed as a power law with few major injuries and many minor ones), then only need 100 beds after the several days these cardboard beds are likely to last, that buys the logistics people with the semi-permanent solutions enough time to come in and set something up more amenable even if those amenities take a bit longer to pack, ship, unpack, and install.
Water could be an issue, except plastic sheets pack even better than cardboard and are fully waterproof.
Bugs could be an issue, except by the time these beds have become infested better amenities will have already arrived.
And cardboard can be cut up and reused for quite a few things. Based on the attitudes of these commenters I'd wager they can't imagine the human ingenuity that becomes available in such dire situations.
The first 24-48 hours of disaster relief invariably sees a need for a field hospital and temporary accommodations to be set up. Other NGOs will be flying in with more semi-permanent solutions (days, weeks, months) while the first responders are setting up. This product is for the first responders. If you can address a 1000-bed need immediately (injuries being expected to be distributed as a power law with few major injuries and many minor ones), then only need 100 beds after the several days these cardboard beds are likely to last, that buys the logistics people with the semi-permanent solutions enough time to come in and set something up more amenable even if those amenities take a bit longer to pack, ship, unpack, and install.
Water could be an issue, except plastic sheets pack even better than cardboard and are fully waterproof.
Bugs could be an issue, except by the time these beds have become infested better amenities will have already arrived.
And cardboard can be cut up and reused for quite a few things. Based on the attitudes of these commenters I'd wager they can't imagine the human ingenuity that becomes available in such dire situations.
I actually have a full queen size cardboard bed that looks similar to this, and they're amazing! I bought it as a temporary bed while I waited for my furniture to arrive during a cross-world move, and never gave it up. It's quite comfortable, and really easy to move, and includes under the bed drawers. I've been using it for 5 years now and its still holding up (with a matress, which these don't have, but still). My apartment is a different experience than the refugee camp for sure, but for all the people who are dispariging these vs. steel cots for their lack of durability, they're surprisingly tough. It'll easily survive a couple glass of water spilled on it without being destroyed, it won't handle a flood or a wet floor, but logistically a cardboard bed is amazing and works surprisingly well.
And once you eat it, they can stuff you in the very coffin-shaped bed/box you lay on, and bury you in an eco-friendly grave.
Seems very uncomfortable and only useful if someone really can't afford the $100-300 for a normal camping air or self-inflating pad, which seems miles better than this.
And if you are OK with uncomfortable then a simple closed-cell foam mat, while possibly a bit more expensive, seems far more reliable, durable and cleanable than this.
And if you are OK with uncomfortable then a simple closed-cell foam mat, while possibly a bit more expensive, seems far more reliable, durable and cleanable than this.
Your options are sleeping on a concrete floor (if you're lucky) or more likely dirt... or this bed? This is an amazing option. Is it the bestest life of luxury? Hell no. But your home has been destroyed by a war or disaster and you're lucky to get a warm meal. Now you get a bed? Even if not an amazing bed? It's worlds better than the alternative.
Dirt (in a forest) is a great option by the way (just need an insulation layer because it is cold). Concrete is of course horrible.
I have a cheap folding metal cot that is likely a significantly better alternative for not much difference in price.
These cardboard beds cost 16-17 euros to produce. There are 100 million displaced people in the world. Your cheap folding metal cot will never be so cheap as to even come close to being a competitor on economic terms.
Why on earth not? Tube steel and canvas are incredibly inexpensive. The article is blatantly lying about the wholesale cost of traditional cots to make their pricing sound reasonable. At even modest bulk quantity, folding metal cots can be obtained on alibaba for $14/ea or less. At humanitarian scales, quite a lot less.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/HOMFUL-Hot-Sale-600D-...
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Outdoor-Aluminium-Fol...
The article doesn’t mention how long the cardboard beds are intended to last before being disposed or recycled.
Between the cardboard bed and one of those I know which I’d prefer, and since cost is not actually a factor, I’m not sure what the advantage of the cardboard beds is.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/HOMFUL-Hot-Sale-600D-...
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Outdoor-Aluminium-Fol...
The article doesn’t mention how long the cardboard beds are intended to last before being disposed or recycled.
Between the cardboard bed and one of those I know which I’d prefer, and since cost is not actually a factor, I’m not sure what the advantage of the cardboard beds is.
And it probably lasts 1-3 days a week max before it needs to be replaced. That camping cot will last long enough for the war or disaster to play out which could be years
And any water on them instantly ruins them?
Waterproof sheets exist and pack down quite small for logistics purposes.
That's good for the top of it, what about the bottom, on the cement? If someone spills water, or mops the floor, it will get damaged very easily.
Silly idea IMO - metal framed beds are extremely durable.
Silly idea IMO - metal framed beds are extremely durable.
And much harder to pack and ship. You could probably fit 1000 cardboard beds in the same volume of a cargo hold as 100 metal cots. Also, there are many local shops who already have the tools to mass-produce cardboard boxes with arbitrary shapes; the same cannot be said of cots.
And as the article explicitly states, these are intended for the first responders, not for long-term infirmary. They don't need to last more than a few days.
And as the article explicitly states, these are intended for the first responders, not for long-term infirmary. They don't need to last more than a few days.
I don't think it's 10:1 volume, maybe weight.
"Don't need to last more than a few days" well, maybe not, but they will be used for a while absolutely.
"Don't need to last more than a few days" well, maybe not, but they will be used for a while absolutely.
People in refugee camps can't spend hundreds of dollars on a bed, not to mention that even if they could, you can't get tens or hundreds of thousands of those short notice.
This can be used with a closed cell foam mat, It's about getting people off the ground in emergency situations where the low cost means the difference between beds for everyone or beds for 10% of them or even less
This can be used with a closed cell foam mat, It's about getting people off the ground in emergency situations where the low cost means the difference between beds for everyone or beds for 10% of them or even less
The specially mentioned refugee camps who often come with no money or supplies and only the clothing on their back. Or disasters where people gather in haste with no access to supplies as infrastructure has been destroyed. The logistics of sending larger mats is also harder. These can be made with existing facilities in any large city and deployed almost immediately. Of course there are better options or even sleeping on the floor would work in a pinch.
Try reading the article without an adblocker. It's basically one long ad for packing machines and extras. "Build cool thing with cardboard" is to get people in the door.
Refugee camps mean sanitation problems. Hygiene is always an issue. These cardboard beds as absorbant, impossible to clean, and full of void spaces. And as paper they are likely even edible by something unpleasant. They will quickly become literal nests for everything but humans.
For a refugee camp you want hard surfaces that can be sprayed with bleech and no uncleanable crevices or voids. In most any refugee situaion, these things will become roach and rat motels within days.
For a refugee camp you want hard surfaces that can be sprayed with bleech and no uncleanable crevices or voids. In most any refugee situaion, these things will become roach and rat motels within days.
They talk about production being in every major city. But would those be available in a crisis? At that moment? And on other hand a few thousand of the more expensive priced ones don't seem that big of investment on global scale. Just store them near major cities with airports... Same thing...
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According to the article the startup is called "Humanitaria". Where can I find more information about them? Is there a link? I would like to buy a couple of these beds for when relatives visit.
It was linked at the VERY end of the article: https://www.humanitaria.es/
Buy something comfortable instead, such as an Exped Megamat 15 LXW plus a memory foam topper and maybe a foldable cot.
Cool!
Although I sweat so much that I'd destroy that thing in one evening.
Although I sweat so much that I'd destroy that thing in one evening.
Your sleep quality is likely suffering quite bad if you sweat that much regularly while asleep
That it does. That it does.
I live in a hot ass condo with no air conditioning and only a fan. So happy fall is here. In the summer I just ... bake.
I live in a hot ass condo with no air conditioning and only a fan. So happy fall is here. In the summer I just ... bake.
Surely you can afford AC. Not getting quality sleep is akin to driving drunk for tech people imho.
A plastic sheet would solve that issue
This is a bug problem waiting to happen no? Couldn't imagine these lasting for any length of time. Silverfish city.
Is the purpose of your Amazon box to last forever? No.
They said at the very start, the purpose is to be able to CHEAPLY and QUICKLY produce and deliver beds when disaster strikes. If you've months to prepare, then you can buy and ship decent beds from anywhere in the world via sea/train/truck. But if you absolutely positively need 10,000 beds tomorrow? This is the answer.
They said at the very start, the purpose is to be able to CHEAPLY and QUICKLY produce and deliver beds when disaster strikes. If you've months to prepare, then you can buy and ship decent beds from anywhere in the world via sea/train/truck. But if you absolutely positively need 10,000 beds tomorrow? This is the answer.
There are a well known list of priorities in a humanitarian relief situation. Beds are not on it.
Do you have a source for this list? I suspect it's not as well known as you hope.
Here is an example of MSF's priority list: https://evaluation.msf.org/sites/default/files/2021-12/The%2...
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Wouldn't a camp bad have mattress?
Isn't a camp bed going to have a longer life span?
Isn't a camp bed going to have a longer life span?
Where can I buy one?
Buy? They’re free.
https://store.usps.com/store/product/shipping-supplies/prior...
I meant the bed for a normal sized human.
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Unsupported edges right where people will sit.
Warning: keep floor dry.
And perfect flat and level
I mean, you could shave off edges as required to match the floor.
Just don't move it after.
Just don't move it after.
That is not a bed, that's just a flat and fucking uncomfortable surface
Would you really want to stay on a surface with no barriers for you to block from falling down while sick?
Turn around and you will be thankful for the medical staff already present
Would you really want to stay on a surface with no barriers for you to block from falling down while sick?
Turn around and you will be thankful for the medical staff already present
If you're a refugee you might be glad of a place to lie down that's not on the cold floor. Or dirty.
Sure the comfort level is pretty low, but maybe futon style mats could be used?
Sure the comfort level is pretty low, but maybe futon style mats could be used?
They spent half the article describing what this is replacing and every picture of it in any realistic situation has mat on top of it.
Sorry but i see a very cost efficient waste of money
If that's all the local industry can produce, it's better than nothing.
If the "Cardboard Bed" was to be produced and used in the local area, I'd be a fan. Instead, these are created somewhere else and brought in. From the article:
> "The cost of 1,000 beds for a refugee camp ranges from €100,000 to €200,000 (US$110 to $220) and it takes up to two weeks to produce them, another two weeks to ship them (by land or sea) and more than 24 hours to install and set them up”, said Juan Sanz, Humanitaria’s CEO.
Humanitaria seems like they need to work on streamlining their manufacturing process if a thousand beds takes two weeks to produce. At 8 hours a day, 5 days a week this suggests 1000/80 = 12.5 beds per hour. This manufacturing appears to be simply cutting cardboard and packaging it. I'm really hoping this 12.5 beds per hour (one bed every 5 minutes) is inexperienced manual labor from one worker.
If Humanitaria _is_ actually automating this process in their centralized location, why is it so slow?
At the scales/speeds they are operating on, these beds cannot be produced rapidly in response to a crisis. Given the constant harping on low cost, I'm skeptical that these beds are actually even a good idea. I'm skeptical of the motivation to make a cut-every-corner "solution" for bedding needs. Are 1000 of these beds actually more useful than 100 more rugged beds? Outside of emergency situations which Humanitaria cannot produce sufficient quantities for, I'd prefer 100 real beds to 1000 cardboard beds.
> "The cost of 1,000 beds for a refugee camp ranges from €100,000 to €200,000 (US$110 to $220) and it takes up to two weeks to produce them, another two weeks to ship them (by land or sea) and more than 24 hours to install and set them up”, said Juan Sanz, Humanitaria’s CEO.
Humanitaria seems like they need to work on streamlining their manufacturing process if a thousand beds takes two weeks to produce. At 8 hours a day, 5 days a week this suggests 1000/80 = 12.5 beds per hour. This manufacturing appears to be simply cutting cardboard and packaging it. I'm really hoping this 12.5 beds per hour (one bed every 5 minutes) is inexperienced manual labor from one worker.
If Humanitaria _is_ actually automating this process in their centralized location, why is it so slow?
At the scales/speeds they are operating on, these beds cannot be produced rapidly in response to a crisis. Given the constant harping on low cost, I'm skeptical that these beds are actually even a good idea. I'm skeptical of the motivation to make a cut-every-corner "solution" for bedding needs. Are 1000 of these beds actually more useful than 100 more rugged beds? Outside of emergency situations which Humanitaria cannot produce sufficient quantities for, I'd prefer 100 real beds to 1000 cardboard beds.
You misread the article - the bit you quoted is about existing camp-beds. It goes on to say:
> By comparison, 1,000 Humanitaria beds cost $17,000, can be produced in hours on existing, readily-available packaging machinery in every major city in the world, delivered folded flat by plane next day and can be set up in 20 minutes.
> By comparison, 1,000 Humanitaria beds cost $17,000, can be produced in hours on existing, readily-available packaging machinery in every major city in the world, delivered folded flat by plane next day and can be set up in 20 minutes.
I am sorry? You would "prefer" 100 real beds to 1000 cardboard beds when there is a need for 1000 beds? That's nice, the rest 900 people can sleep on the ground as along as this is your preference.
Yes 100/1000 people on beds is preferable to 1000 that have beds today and no beds tomorrow or the rest of their stay.
Do you think anyone involved in this project ever tested and evaluated this bed? How do you think businesses work in general? They built a bed that lasts only 1 day but decided to go ahead and ship it to disaster areas because why not.
Why is it always some dude on an Internet forum that knows better than a business dedicated to solving a particular problem...
Why is it always some dude on an Internet forum that knows better than a business dedicated to solving a particular problem...
I’m sure they did but in typical sv startup culture they probably did not consider all the design objectives that a product they serves refugee camps needs to meet. Need a bed vs need a bed that can survive a hostile environment are 2 different objectives. Cardboard beds were tried at the Japan onlymics btw and they weren’t great there either
Yeah, i think businesses makes bad decisions for the public interest because the business does care about it's profits and not the public interest , that seems about right.
> "By comparison, 1,000 Humanitaria beds cost $17,000, can be produced in hours on existing, readily-available packaging machinery in every major city in the world, delivered folded flat by plane next day and can be set up in 20 minutes. The first 24 hours is critical in disaster response and this invention brings massive promise!"
You misinterpretted that portion of the artical, the CEO is contrasting their beds to what 1000 beds currently take to set-up.
You misinterpretted that portion of the artical, the CEO is contrasting their beds to what 1000 beds currently take to set-up.
This sort of thing is already stocked by the UN (and various charities) and ready to transport out at a moment's notice.
The UN have a warehouse in Copenhagen with the more special stuff (medicines, schoolbooks, toys etc), and several others with the basics (food, beds etc).
The UN have a warehouse in Copenhagen with the more special stuff (medicines, schoolbooks, toys etc), and several others with the basics (food, beds etc).
Honestly i could even argue that in fact it is not better than nothing.
A bad solution is a problem because it would lead to not providing a good solution.
A bad solution is a problem because it would lead to not providing a good solution.
This is a puzzling display of confidence. Have you ever slept on the ground after a long hard day of dealing with a natural or a man-made disaster? Getting into ANY bed is the only thing you can think about (this plus eating, of course). Being able to distribute 10K beds on the day they are first needed is an incredible advantage over having to wait for several days for more comfortable beds (it's not even clear whether they are indeed more comfortable).
Yeah, i would prefer a pile of random clothing on the ground to a fucking box i could fall from anytime i sneeze
Would you prefer to sleep on the ground for a month before getting a camp-bed, or get one of these inside 24 hours? That's the trade-off here.
The first words you see in the article are:
24 hours vs 20 minutes makes me think they are not comparing apples to apples. Either they are comparing the time it takes to set up 1000 beds with that of a single one or they are claiming the total setup time for these beds from flat pack to usable is 1.2s.
And 1000 camp beds in 24 hours is only 1.4 minutes per bed. Elsewhere in the article they say that “A single person can set up 70 beds in an hour”, which is 51 seconds, not so far off from the camp bed figure.
Also, why on earth would we be manufacturing new beds for each new occupant in every case? Tube and canvas camp beds are durable and reusable. Just because these beds necessarily can only be used when brand new and must be discarded after doesn’t mean you get to assume the same negative qualities for the thing you are comparing against.
The $100-200 claimed wholesale price for camp cots is also an order of magnitude off reality, as a few seconds browsing alibaba can confirm.
This is the worst kind of credulous “behold the power of design!” puff piece, complete with an insulting comment questioning the intelligence of the people at humanitarian agencies that this work is supposed to benefit:
Humanitarian work should be praised, but not if it’s counterproductive self-congratulation.