Microsoft blocks even more customization apps in Windows 11 version 24H2(neowin.net)
neowin.net
Microsoft blocks even more customization apps in Windows 11 version 24H2
https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-blocks-even-more-customization-apps-in-windows-11-version-24h2/
165 comments
I don't think it's so much Linux getting better as Windows getting worse. Like even beyond having ads in the start menu and having the default browser open up to a gigantic chumbox, a lot of the things Linux was historically getting crap for like the inconsistent UI elements; that stuff is so much worse on Windows now. Running KDE apps in Gnome or vice versa looks significantly more visually consistent than running Windows apps in Windows.
Go boot up and use a vm with kde3 then kde4 then kde5 then kde6 and i think you will rescind your claim. Its night and day better over time. I suspect even gnome has improved but i dont have the experience with it so i cant authoritatively comment.
Both KDE and GNOME have improved dramatically over the years in stability and user-friendliness. The leap from KDE Plasma 5 to 6 was massive and brought proper DPI scaling to all displays for both X11 and Wayland applications, on par with what Windows offers.
When they kill Windows 10 support and the newest Windows is still garbage, I'll switch to Linux. Most apps are compatible with Linux anyway, and these that aren't can be run within a VM, or I can have dual-boot, or whatever. I don't want my computer to be actively fighting against my comfort.
I did the same recently. I never stopped using linux, I used it only for work though.
i saw Windows 11 which is less and less for power users, to the point of going against it.
2 weeks ago I installed Kubuntu on a second nvme SSD in my gaming desktop and I discovered that: working on a desktop is so much more pleasant and working on Kubuntu satisfies all my needs except gaming.
BUT since I got a steam deck, I have been playing mostly there anyway. And yes steam deck is linux too.
I tried and fought enough with macOS, Windows is betraying their own users and not having bash is frustrating. so here we go, full linux.
My children first OS is going to be Kubuntu, let's see how it goes
2 weeks ago I installed Kubuntu on a second nvme SSD in my gaming desktop and I discovered that: working on a desktop is so much more pleasant and working on Kubuntu satisfies all my needs except gaming.
BUT since I got a steam deck, I have been playing mostly there anyway. And yes steam deck is linux too.
I tried and fought enough with macOS, Windows is betraying their own users and not having bash is frustrating. so here we go, full linux.
My children first OS is going to be Kubuntu, let's see how it goes
Microsoft still haven't implemented a native vertical taskbar after all the years of it being in the top voted[1] request (part of the request to move to any side of the screen) and the fact it's been part of Windows for like 15 years. It's a dealbreaker tbh.
Third-party tools that restored the W10 taskbar in W11 allowed users to continue having a taskbar that's usable for them yet the latest W11 betas show they're removing that legacy code. It'd be fine if they were replacing it with an equivalent but they're not.
[1] https://www.neowin.net/news/ability-to-move-the-windows-11-t...
Third-party tools that restored the W10 taskbar in W11 allowed users to continue having a taskbar that's usable for them yet the latest W11 betas show they're removing that legacy code. It'd be fine if they were replacing it with an equivalent but they're not.
[1] https://www.neowin.net/news/ability-to-move-the-windows-11-t...
It's because the Windows 11 UI was designed by people who've never used anything other that an Apple Mac.
Yes, Microsoft hires employees with zero Windows experience to design their operating system.
That's why the Windows 11 taskbar has the icons centred -- because Apple OSX does too.
That's why there's no way to drag the taskbar around -- because Apple OSX doesn't allow this either.
Etc...
Yes, Microsoft hires employees with zero Windows experience to design their operating system.
That's why the Windows 11 taskbar has the icons centred -- because Apple OSX does too.
That's why there's no way to drag the taskbar around -- because Apple OSX doesn't allow this either.
Etc...
You can move the Dock to the side of the screen and in fact many people do. What's the excuse for not copying that functionality?
this assumes the programmer knows how to change app settings; ive seen many a great programmers know quite little about the actual apps they install (or comes with) and use; dont even get me started about folks who "program" but simply just edit a file and dont use the actual app to test things (and instead rely on build-systems) - strange i must say, but it happens so much im not surprised by it, just forever saddened
I've seen my share of horror stories, but I'm also the type of idealist that believes the people whom a $3T corporation hires to work on one of its core products would know better. It's more than likely that ultimately the decision was not in the hands of a technical (or seemingly even a computer literate) person.
> That's why there's no way to drag the taskbar around -- because Apple OSX doesn't allow this either.
It does though.
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mchlp1119/mac
It does though.
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mchlp1119/mac
Designers don’t make things based on their experience with the product.
They do research, evaluate multiple variations, get buy in from stakeholders and then AB test the final result.
It’s definitely not as simple as let’s do this because I saw it somewhere before.
They do research, evaluate multiple variations, get buy in from stakeholders and then AB test the final result.
It’s definitely not as simple as let’s do this because I saw it somewhere before.
Icons in the middle of a task bar is objectively, measurably less user-friendly than left aligned icons.
With the standard Windows layout users can develop “muscle memory”, especially for the bottom left corner of the screen — which is very easy to hit with a mouse because the edges of the screen “trap” the cursor.
With middle aligned icons, every new app shifts the existing icons.
Also there is no icon in an easy to hit location.
Windows 11 has some other design elements that broke Microsoft’s own integrations. As a random example: “Open with VS Code” and “Terminal here” are hidden submenus now.
With the standard Windows layout users can develop “muscle memory”, especially for the bottom left corner of the screen — which is very easy to hit with a mouse because the edges of the screen “trap” the cursor.
With middle aligned icons, every new app shifts the existing icons.
Also there is no icon in an easy to hit location.
Windows 11 has some other design elements that broke Microsoft’s own integrations. As a random example: “Open with VS Code” and “Terminal here” are hidden submenus now.
Apple allows to drag the taskbar “around”. Mine auto hides away, since I barely use it (I try to use the mouse as little as possible).
You're being downvoted on only 1/4 of the points you made, but the other 3/4 is true: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30019307
I've always been fascinated by forum up/down voting patterns. It's a lens onto human group behaviour.
I've said things that are totally wrong and been voted up, and said things that are essentially correct except for some tiny detail and been voted down into oblivion.
What especially gets people riled up is if there's an element of tribalism involved. Can be anything: text editors, political party, operating system, programming language, or whatever. You don't even have to be pro/anti any specific tribe. Just mentioning anything to do with such a topic gets people worked up and angry even if your point is strictly neutral or objective.
It's always fun to watch this play out in the microcosm of some obscure topic...
I've said things that are totally wrong and been voted up, and said things that are essentially correct except for some tiny detail and been voted down into oblivion.
What especially gets people riled up is if there's an element of tribalism involved. Can be anything: text editors, political party, operating system, programming language, or whatever. You don't even have to be pro/anti any specific tribe. Just mentioning anything to do with such a topic gets people worked up and angry even if your point is strictly neutral or objective.
It's always fun to watch this play out in the microcosm of some obscure topic...
Apple and Microsoft are competing on who can make the worst UX in the desktop arena. Window management is so bad in osx and I refuse to pay for add-ons to make things slightly better when Linux and the small galaxy of window managers have been doing it so well, and for free, for literally decades.
I recently got a m3 macbook pro (mainly because the general notebook market has been shit for a decade now, I needed to replace my more than a decade old one, and there's pretty much nothing apart from apple which is relatively small, has long battery life, a shitload of RAM and a powerful CPU).
Once there's Linux support for M3 I'll probably switch (have an M1 macbook air with Linux which is doing well) - until then I got things close enough to my Linux Hyprland setup with yabai that it is relatively painfree to use.
Once there's Linux support for M3 I'll probably switch (have an M1 macbook air with Linux which is doing well) - until then I got things close enough to my Linux Hyprland setup with yabai that it is relatively painfree to use.
Are you always using full screen apps? If you are, yeah it’s bad. If you got a big enough screen, know the shortcuts, and you are not using full screen apps, macOS is untouchable.
Funny, how many GNU/Linux desktop environments allow you to do that easily, while being developed by a handful of people, while MS has probably hordes of people working on the UI of Windows. They just don't seem to get it or have complelety incapable UI/UX designers or something.
It's because Microsoft has OKRs to hit that have nothing to do with UI customizability or even giving users what they want.
I realized this in the 90s. Windows 9x, theoretically, should never have existed. I knew this because a DOS subsystem with great speed and compatibility, DOSEMU, existed for Linux. You could play Doom with sound at full speed in DOSEMU on contemporary Pentium hardware. If the open source community could do that, Microsoft, the developers of DOS, could develop a DOS layer for Windows NT that was much better than the sluggish, feature-incomplete layer they did ship. But they didn't prioritize the effort it would take to do so, especially since dividing the Win32 ecosystem into 9x, NT workstation and NT server allowed binning of different Windows versions at different price points.
I realized this in the 90s. Windows 9x, theoretically, should never have existed. I knew this because a DOS subsystem with great speed and compatibility, DOSEMU, existed for Linux. You could play Doom with sound at full speed in DOSEMU on contemporary Pentium hardware. If the open source community could do that, Microsoft, the developers of DOS, could develop a DOS layer for Windows NT that was much better than the sluggish, feature-incomplete layer they did ship. But they didn't prioritize the effort it would take to do so, especially since dividing the Win32 ecosystem into 9x, NT workstation and NT server allowed binning of different Windows versions at different price points.
Windows 9x was significantly lower in resource requirements than NT (mostly from memory, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_95#System_requirements / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT_4.0#System_requirem... seems to agree). I'd 100% believe that MS was going for market segmentation, but I don't think it was just leaving out DOS compat.
Every configuration option is a support burden. I say tihs as a KDE user who installed Gnome for the parents.
So how come, that far fewer people can role out such a feature easily, while MS cannot? "No need to offer support." I hear you say, but is that really it? If the feature just works well, because it has been developed well, and does not cause many if any support cases, then that point would be invalid. Lets take for example XFCE panels. I can stick them wherever I like. If there is a problem, then it is with panels themselves, not with their position. And for things like deskbar mode I can write a wiki article and point people to that.
I think support shouldn't be such an issue, if things are well done. And of course you can always have less-power users, who will have some issue. But they will have issues anyway, if not with a deskbar kind of thing, then with some other thing. Should MS therefore strip their OS of all features? It seems ridiculous. Why not release a "Windows for computer illiterate" version then and keep a capable version?
I think support shouldn't be such an issue, if things are well done. And of course you can always have less-power users, who will have some issue. But they will have issues anyway, if not with a deskbar kind of thing, then with some other thing. Should MS therefore strip their OS of all features? It seems ridiculous. Why not release a "Windows for computer illiterate" version then and keep a capable version?
Let's be real, MS doesn't give a flying flip about support. They use their customers as alpha and beta testers. It has been a few years, but the last time I used Premium Support it was a miserable experience. The agents knew about as much as I did and wasted my time waiting around for a call backs that solved nothing. They don't care. I would hang my head in shame to be associated with such a rotten organization like MS. I don't know how some of those folks sleep at night working for MS.
I'd be fine with it being part of Powertoys.
I get that but if so many people want it then why isn’t the improvement to their lives with the additional support cost?
This is complete insanity that vertical task bar is still not implemented, pretty much what OS has to do - manage memory, manage processes/threads, manage windows to enable smooth UX with multiple programs. It more and more fails on the last one. Seems the policies have changed to drop support for everything that is used for example less than 1% of users, (just neglecting 10 million users, costing likely billions $ time and sweat for those users, nbd). Even if it would cost MS like tow part time developers time/money.
It is such a neccessary multitasking functionality on work environments that I'm quite lost when Win 10 support ends and the alternative taskbar tools do not work reliably then. Small hope that Windows 12 or whatever comes next would be the better one.
It is such a neccessary multitasking functionality on work environments that I'm quite lost when Win 10 support ends and the alternative taskbar tools do not work reliably then. Small hope that Windows 12 or whatever comes next would be the better one.
Not being able to customise my environment is a dealbreaker for me. I will be converting my day to day machine to Linux rather than being nagged into a user hostile OS upgrade.
Clearly Microsoft has given up on powerusers, the people who notice and sometimes fix flaws in their monolith. Seems shortsighted.
Clearly Microsoft has given up on powerusers, the people who notice and sometimes fix flaws in their monolith. Seems shortsighted.
I am not sure if the apps mentioned here really target power users. It seems that they are actually blocking apps by name (!) that reached some popularity in bringing back the old windows style interface. Those apps are bypassing Microsofts efforts to place ads all over the place and monetize the start menu. Those new featured content and AI stuff seems all very hacked into the interface and breaks easily. My taskbar even gets stuck from time to time (missed meetings because of the stuck clock). So this seems all just collateral damage in using windows to sell cloud stuff.
Annoying how previous abilities are also being removed e.g. docking the windows start bar vertically on the side of the screen is no longer allowed in Windows 11, but is possible on Windows Server and Windows 10
Choose KDE if you want the most options to customise the user interface, while retaining something fairly similar to Windows.
Indeed. I moved to Linux back in the WinXP/Win7 days, and KDE's been my pretty much "go-to" desktop environment of choice since pretty much day one. I've tried and used many others for various purposes over the years, but always end up back on KDE for the most overall "familiar" (most like the Windows I had spent many years on), "integrated" (KDE apps tend to "play nice" together), and customizable interface.
I've been considering this more and more lately.
The Steam Deck is actually what's pushed me closer to adopting Linux on my desktop. I usually run Windows just because it's the easiest OS to run games on, but the Steam Deck has really shown that with Proton you can run... basically anything!
Every tool that I use is cross-platform these days, anyway. VS Code, Blender, Inkscape, Godot, etc.
The Steam Deck is actually what's pushed me closer to adopting Linux on my desktop. I usually run Windows just because it's the easiest OS to run games on, but the Steam Deck has really shown that with Proton you can run... basically anything!
Every tool that I use is cross-platform these days, anyway. VS Code, Blender, Inkscape, Godot, etc.
There is 1 game stopping me from making the switch and its battlefield 2042. Every other game I play has a linux equivalent. Even some games with EAC.
EA just simply will not allow it
EA just simply will not allow it
How good is running Windows in a VM with a Linux host nowadays? Does it work well for office users who want to run Office? How about people who want to run Adobe or Autodesk software? These use cases seem to be causing the most friction for the transition in my circles (apart from gaming, which is a different story).
Steam/Valve made a point of running Windows games under Linux as good or better as under.Windows. that is, Wine and Proton are really good these days.
Running genuine MS Windows® in a VM is very possible but much less necessary than, say, 10 years ago, if you want to run some non-esoteric Windows software. It also technically requires a license.
Running genuine MS Windows® in a VM is very possible but much less necessary than, say, 10 years ago, if you want to run some non-esoteric Windows software. It also technically requires a license.
They asked about Office, Adobe, and Autodesk. I’d say the situation is still the opposite there. In the early 00s, you could run Microsoft Office etc. pretty well with CrossOver Office and the likes. But these applications barely work anymore if at all, most likely because their complexity increased a lot over the years.
Using a Windows VM is a pretty good solution. Though last time I tried only commercial solutions like VMWare work very well, because KVM-based solutions didn’t have great graphics support. Maybe VirtualBox is better, but Oracle.
Using a Windows VM is a pretty good solution. Though last time I tried only commercial solutions like VMWare work very well, because KVM-based solutions didn’t have great graphics support. Maybe VirtualBox is better, but Oracle.
These days they tend to work very well, and if you're rich you can even redirect a spare GPU with a screen directly.
Interesting about KVM limitations, because I am constrained to use that. VirtualBox... yes indeed, Oracle.
If you have the hardware for it, VFIO setups can be amazing. I've been running graphics accelerated Windows inside a VM for a few months now, and apart for some random crashes, it's perfect.
I've been using Capture One (lightroom alternative) and Affinity Photo 2 inside the VM and it's been great.
Haven't really tried video editing, but it might not be as great.
I've been using Capture One (lightroom alternative) and Affinity Photo 2 inside the VM and it's been great.
Haven't really tried video editing, but it might not be as great.
How exactly does graphic acceleration work when you run a VM? Do you need two graphic cards (one for the host, another for the guest)?
Edit: to contribute a little to the grandparent question - I have Windows on QEMU for the Office suite and it works pretty smoothly. I had to make some config changes, most of them outlined in these reddit threads:
https://www.reddit.com/r/qemu_kvm/comments/18z8609/qemu_wind...
https://www.reddit.com/r/ChromeOSFlex/comments/ucno4b/qemukv...
I also disabled animations in Windows settings because everything felt clunky.
No crashes, clipboard and shared folders work fine after installing guest tools.
Edit: to contribute a little to the grandparent question - I have Windows on QEMU for the Office suite and it works pretty smoothly. I had to make some config changes, most of them outlined in these reddit threads:
https://www.reddit.com/r/qemu_kvm/comments/18z8609/qemu_wind...
https://www.reddit.com/r/ChromeOSFlex/comments/ucno4b/qemukv...
I also disabled animations in Windows settings because everything felt clunky.
No crashes, clipboard and shared folders work fine after installing guest tools.
Very good info, I am also planning to set something up over QEMU.
As a 20 year full-time Linux desktop user doing Enterprise IT consulting, running a windoze VM has never NOT been an entirely functional experience for me.
I've used both QEMU and Virtualbox to run them, mostly Virtuabox (yes, oracle sucks, it was still sun when I started), and probably the most demanding things I do on it is Visio, which I use for some very complex design docs in windows it general struggles with already. I used windoze xp in vm for ages even past its date of expiration, basically until newer Visio's no longer supported it, and all windows versions tried (7 and 10) have worked fine outside their own UI quirks.
I don't even enable 3d drivers, or try to make it do graphics-heavy things. Everything else I can do fully in Linux (including gaming), and this has been in supporting most any and every sort of enterprise across those years in technology.
Anyone that tells you Linux can't/doesn't work is being obstinate, ignorant, or lazy.
I've used both QEMU and Virtualbox to run them, mostly Virtuabox (yes, oracle sucks, it was still sun when I started), and probably the most demanding things I do on it is Visio, which I use for some very complex design docs in windows it general struggles with already. I used windoze xp in vm for ages even past its date of expiration, basically until newer Visio's no longer supported it, and all windows versions tried (7 and 10) have worked fine outside their own UI quirks.
I don't even enable 3d drivers, or try to make it do graphics-heavy things. Everything else I can do fully in Linux (including gaming), and this has been in supporting most any and every sort of enterprise across those years in technology.
Anyone that tells you Linux can't/doesn't work is being obstinate, ignorant, or lazy.
VMWare works really well for me, as do Proton and Lutris for Linux gaming. That said, I'm a software developer so not a typical user.
I'm not a professional Office user, but I personally found OnlyOffice to be a very suitable replacement (you can get the FOSS version on Flathub)
Depends on how powerful your machine is
What kept you on their platform this long if you don’t mind my asking?
Not OP, but in my case it's Visual Studio. It's just the best IDE for me, and I have literally decades of muscle memory using it.
I first tried Linux sometime in the late 90s, and this might finally be the year I switch over. I do everything else in a Linux VM now, may as well run Linux as host and Windows as a VM.
I first tried Linux sometime in the late 90s, and this might finally be the year I switch over. I do everything else in a Linux VM now, may as well run Linux as host and Windows as a VM.
In my case not just visual studio but the work it would require to figure out all I figured out on windows. Creating VMs, websites, interacting with system features, lots of trivial and not so trivial things to learn. I have tons of home scripts in C#, would probably need to rewrite most of them, likely using different libraries, I am still stuck on .net 4.8 because of that. I would love to switch though. I just don't have the bandwidth.
You can use Visual Studio on Linux, I would assume you can configure it to use the same hotkeys as on Windows but I'm not sure.
Are you maybe thinking of VS Code? I'm talking about its parent: https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/community/
Yes, my bad.
Isn't that just vscode, that ugly abomination that I've given up trying to configure in a reasonable fashion after like 5 minutes every time I tried it out again?
Anyways, I'm on jetbrains these days and never looked back.
Anyways, I'm on jetbrains these days and never looked back.
Yes, you're right, it's VS Code they're referring to and it's not the same thing.
I tried JetBrains Rider and stopped using it after the console window didn't auto scroll as I logged stuff into it - I don't know how something so basic doesn't work properly.
I should probably try again, as so many people recommend it that I can only assume I did something wrong to mess up the console.
(Edited, I originally misunderstood your comment)
I tried JetBrains Rider and stopped using it after the console window didn't auto scroll as I logged stuff into it - I don't know how something so basic doesn't work properly.
I should probably try again, as so many people recommend it that I can only assume I did something wrong to mess up the console.
(Edited, I originally misunderstood your comment)
> I tried JetBrains Rider and stopped using it after the console window didn't auto scroll as I logged stuff into it - I don't know how something so basic doesn't work properly.
I use JetBrains IDEs as my daily drivers, nowadays they're pretty good and feel more responsive than the previous versions (you can even choose between the older type of UI and something more minimalist).
As for the console, is it possible that you weren't scrolled all the way to the bottom? For example, if you scoll up a bit and want to look at specific lines, the console will append the text to the bottom but won't move your viewport, whereas if you scroll back down to the bottom (or use the button for that), it'll start scrolling automatically again.
I use JetBrains IDEs as my daily drivers, nowadays they're pretty good and feel more responsive than the previous versions (you can even choose between the older type of UI and something more minimalist).
As for the console, is it possible that you weren't scrolled all the way to the bottom? For example, if you scoll up a bit and want to look at specific lines, the console will append the text to the bottom but won't move your viewport, whereas if you scroll back down to the bottom (or use the button for that), it'll start scrolling automatically again.
For me it's the hardware support in windows. I've been using Linux on and off for 15 years, but every time I've tried to switch my home desktop I've always run in to issues. I used mint Linux for quite a while and it makes a very good stab at competing with windows.
Recently I got a steam deck and I'm surprised how good it is in desktop mode, and also at running windows games in proton. I'm actually considering getting a dock and ditching my desktop atx tower. The tracking and telemetry in windows has really put me off it.
Recently I got a steam deck and I'm surprised how good it is in desktop mode, and also at running windows games in proton. I'm actually considering getting a dock and ditching my desktop atx tower. The tracking and telemetry in windows has really put me off it.
It's been fine for me over the last decade, but I took the easy route and ran it on thinkpad T series mostly.
I've cobbled together a random ryzen system with an A380 half a year ago and didn't even check for Linux compat before buying, and steam with proton works pretty well on debian 13.
Deal breakers are usually those games that bundle the EA or Epic launcher, those two are fucking dumpster fires when it comes to proton. Like, you fiddle for an hour to get a stupid fucking launcher going that wants an additional account signup and then the whole AAA Windows game runs perfectly fine.
Makes you appreciate Steam/Proton/Valve even more every time.
I've cobbled together a random ryzen system with an A380 half a year ago and didn't even check for Linux compat before buying, and steam with proton works pretty well on debian 13.
Deal breakers are usually those games that bundle the EA or Epic launcher, those two are fucking dumpster fires when it comes to proton. Like, you fiddle for an hour to get a stupid fucking launcher going that wants an additional account signup and then the whole AAA Windows game runs perfectly fine.
Makes you appreciate Steam/Proton/Valve even more every time.
Not OP, but compatibility, familiarity and inertia.
also my initial choice for a Linux os that I daily drove back in uni, became infested with snap packages which I've had numerous issues with.
(This is not an invite for anyone to tell me about Arch or "$x distro is clearly best", I've settled with pop_os for trials)
also my initial choice for a Linux os that I daily drove back in uni, became infested with snap packages which I've had numerous issues with.
(This is not an invite for anyone to tell me about Arch or "$x distro is clearly best", I've settled with pop_os for trials)
Judging by replies here should really be a "why are you still on windows" askHN.
Besides other reasons here, when you have decades of experience on how things work, hundreds of little utils and tools... and you want to finally concentrate more on productive work in your life and not start the whole hurdle anew.
Maybe if a perfect, seamless VM environment would exist, but that still leaves the HW problems.
Besides other reasons here, when you have decades of experience on how things work, hundreds of little utils and tools... and you want to finally concentrate more on productive work in your life and not start the whole hurdle anew.
Maybe if a perfect, seamless VM environment would exist, but that still leaves the HW problems.
I think I would miss how seamless is RDP too. I have a lots of VMs at home (simplifies backups, or allows to have a machine behind a VPN without affecting connectivity of the main machines).
RDP is excellent, but xrdp[1] works pretty well (although most of the time I stick to SSH sessions and don't bother with remote GUI)
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xrdp
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xrdp
Design software, games and lazyness.
I have a linux running as my home server, so I have tried out various distros, currently using Mint Xfce.
I have a linux running as my home server, so I have tried out various distros, currently using Mint Xfce.
It's not always you who picks the platform. In an enterprise usually choices are limited or it's not worth your time invested.
For me it's the games. Granted, I've been glancing more and more at the compatibility chart lately...
Given the hard time I am having installing Linux on a Gigabyte NUC that was given to me, due to UEFI issues, I am quite close to either get rid of it, or install Windows 11, make use of WSL if needed, and call it a day.
Congratulations! You baited the rage in the headline.
I’m still holding off updating to windows 11 as it still doesn’t have feature parity with windows 10.
The biggest one was the option to not merge apps in the taskbar down to one icon, and the option to show titles. They finally brought that feature to 11, but apparently the smaller taskbar is gone too? The only option was a larger one that always takes up much more space. I like it to show all the time, so I’d prefer a thinner taskbar.
Sure there are these hacky third party apps, but it’s not native. I don’t understand why they took all these power-user features away. As far as I know you can’t put the taskbar on the side or top edges of the screen either.
The biggest one was the option to not merge apps in the taskbar down to one icon, and the option to show titles. They finally brought that feature to 11, but apparently the smaller taskbar is gone too? The only option was a larger one that always takes up much more space. I like it to show all the time, so I’d prefer a thinner taskbar.
Sure there are these hacky third party apps, but it’s not native. I don’t understand why they took all these power-user features away. As far as I know you can’t put the taskbar on the side or top edges of the screen either.
I don’t know what microsoft is thinking, there is no real reason to use windows 11, it is a downgrade in a lot of ways. At least windows 10 held directx12 hostage as an incentive to upgrade. Its funny, everytime I boot up one of my systems that still has windows 7 installed it feels so nice, even better than 10 much less 11.
I think microsoft is playing a dangerous game with messing around with windows like this, it could lead to a domino effect causing a mass exodus of users.
Google is going through the same thing now, it was the king of search but now search sucks and I and my friends are using other search engines more and moving away from google tools. I don’t even remember the last time I used gmail.
I think microsoft is playing a dangerous game with messing around with windows like this, it could lead to a domino effect causing a mass exodus of users.
Google is going through the same thing now, it was the king of search but now search sucks and I and my friends are using other search engines more and moving away from google tools. I don’t even remember the last time I used gmail.
Yes, they are losing users over this. Although I have also heard of technologically capable people running into having their system auto-upgraded somehow and now using 11. Don't ask me how in the world they accept this. If that happened to me, I would reinstall the previous OS, even out of principle alone.
And then MS seems to think they are doing any better with their online office suite. Well no, there are many people, who even want to quit their jobs, because of having to use that shit and how dystopian bad it is. MS losing more reputation there as well.
I feel there is a notion now, that MS is simply no longer able to make any quality software product. They got VSCode, but that will be enshittified before long as well.
And then MS seems to think they are doing any better with their online office suite. Well no, there are many people, who even want to quit their jobs, because of having to use that shit and how dystopian bad it is. MS losing more reputation there as well.
I feel there is a notion now, that MS is simply no longer able to make any quality software product. They got VSCode, but that will be enshittified before long as well.
Some people have a higher tolerance for abuse and I think we are the canary in the coal mine, the first to be killed by the enshittification and a warning to other users.
Even VSCode is starting to turn to shit. They are adding all this voice bloat to VSCode, at no time ever while programming have I ever wanted to leave a voice comment, it's inefficient and stupid. I could understand if it was a plugin or extension but to add it to the core? Plus all the other garbage they are shoveling in it which could have just been extensions. They have lost the plot. Also I feel it getting a little sluggish to the point where I am planning on finding a good enough past version and locking on it and rejecting all future updates.
With the March update the only thing that seemed it could be useful was the "locked scrolling" feature.
Even VSCode is starting to turn to shit. They are adding all this voice bloat to VSCode, at no time ever while programming have I ever wanted to leave a voice comment, it's inefficient and stupid. I could understand if it was a plugin or extension but to add it to the core? Plus all the other garbage they are shoveling in it which could have just been extensions. They have lost the plot. Also I feel it getting a little sluggish to the point where I am planning on finding a good enough past version and locking on it and rejecting all future updates.
With the March update the only thing that seemed it could be useful was the "locked scrolling" feature.
They did not take them away. They decided not to add them. Windows 11 is a result of taking Windows 10, adding arbitrary cpu limitation to it, and bolting on a bunch of crap from the cancelled https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10X
This is a deal breaker for me too. I updated to Windows 11 only once I found ExplorerPatcher.
Were it not for sizeable investments in Windows-specific apps, I would have moved away.
I am currently using:
* ExplorerPatcher (replace taskbar)
* OpenShell (replace start menu)
* ProcessExplorer (replace task manager)
* XYPlorer (replace file manager)
* Utilities like Notepad++, Paint.net
* Winsplit Revolution (Window management)
* BatteryCare (Power management)
* USBSafelyRemove (USB device management)
* Etc.
Were it not for sizeable investments in Windows-specific apps, I would have moved away.
I am currently using:
* ExplorerPatcher (replace taskbar)
* OpenShell (replace start menu)
* ProcessExplorer (replace task manager)
* XYPlorer (replace file manager)
* Utilities like Notepad++, Paint.net
* Winsplit Revolution (Window management)
* BatteryCare (Power management)
* USBSafelyRemove (USB device management)
* Etc.
There is no deal, you’re effectively modding an os in unintended ways
Maybe I'm too old, but since when is simply using another software as opposed to built-ins considered modding? Most of these seem like replacements to me.
If doing that little is now considered "modding" a desktop OS, we've fucked up somewhere. Even phone OSes like Android let you download replacements of built-ins (such as another launcher, file manager, photo app) right from their app store.
If doing that little is now considered "modding" a desktop OS, we've fucked up somewhere. Even phone OSes like Android let you download replacements of built-ins (such as another launcher, file manager, photo app) right from their app store.
> Maybe I'm too old, but since when is simply using another software as opposed to built-ins considered modding? Most of these seem like replacements to me.
ExplorerPatcher /is/ modding. It's not killing explorer.exe and launching another UI that is independent from the os like, say, what blackbox for windows or litestep did. It's patching running executables in memory in a way that could break whenever any data structure gets changed in a Windows update, which is a big deal because Windows is a rolling release OS that constantly adds and remove features. Users of explorer patcher found themselves having to boot in windows safe mode to disable it in the past after windows update ran. It's literally breaking your machine in a way that computer users that aren't very savvy might not understand how to fix. It's very bad publicity for MS who might get blamed by some: "my computer isn't starting anymore after a windows update, I hate MS" so it makes perfect sense to prevent this program from launching in a new major update.
And it's relying on the assumption that the old code paths it depends on won't disappear in the future. EP doesn't have a replica of the old windows taskbar: it's merely disabling Windows 11's new one and forcing the old one to appear, and it can do that because the code for the Windows 10 task bar is still there. You surely don't expect this to survive all future refactorings and cleanups?
ExplorerPatcher is the kind of software that would have been neat in the old world of Windows where a release of Windows gets frozen and sees no major changes past security updates except for the release of a Service Pack which you have to manually install yourself. It is a terrible idea in the current world of a rolling release state OS.
ExplorerPatcher /is/ modding. It's not killing explorer.exe and launching another UI that is independent from the os like, say, what blackbox for windows or litestep did. It's patching running executables in memory in a way that could break whenever any data structure gets changed in a Windows update, which is a big deal because Windows is a rolling release OS that constantly adds and remove features. Users of explorer patcher found themselves having to boot in windows safe mode to disable it in the past after windows update ran. It's literally breaking your machine in a way that computer users that aren't very savvy might not understand how to fix. It's very bad publicity for MS who might get blamed by some: "my computer isn't starting anymore after a windows update, I hate MS" so it makes perfect sense to prevent this program from launching in a new major update.
And it's relying on the assumption that the old code paths it depends on won't disappear in the future. EP doesn't have a replica of the old windows taskbar: it's merely disabling Windows 11's new one and forcing the old one to appear, and it can do that because the code for the Windows 10 task bar is still there. You surely don't expect this to survive all future refactorings and cleanups?
ExplorerPatcher is the kind of software that would have been neat in the old world of Windows where a release of Windows gets frozen and sees no major changes past security updates except for the release of a Service Pack which you have to manually install yourself. It is a terrible idea in the current world of a rolling release state OS.
> It's very bad publicity for MS who might get blamed by some: "my computer isn't starting anymore after a windows update, I hate MS" so it makes perfect sense to prevent this program from launching in a new major update.
They deserve to be blamed but for something else: 1) create a problem, 2) refuse to solve it, 3) prevent third-party solutions. People used to ungroup tasks and have the taskbar to the side etc. for two decades. At least the ungrouping thing is coming back but Microsoft stubbornness about blocking the remaining features makes me thing something else might be at play other than someone's hurt ego or some designers aesthetic vision.
They deserve to be blamed but for something else: 1) create a problem, 2) refuse to solve it, 3) prevent third-party solutions. People used to ungroup tasks and have the taskbar to the side etc. for two decades. At least the ungrouping thing is coming back but Microsoft stubbornness about blocking the remaining features makes me thing something else might be at play other than someone's hurt ego or some designers aesthetic vision.
> You surely don't expect this to survive all future refactorings and cleanups?
The Win10 bar code has been there, since October 2021, though? I don't know how frequent refactorings are (at M$FT) but given it's been there for nigh three years, I don't see how that's a relevant factor.
Even _if_ it were refactored (and/or cleaned-up), it wouldn't be omitted from the release notes, right?
Unless it's on the roadmap _for_ cleanup, this change to try to "disallow" the program, purely based on the program name and no other identifiers, doesn't give me (don't know about anyone else) much faith that removal would either be executed or executed well (e.g.: legacy Win code spaghetti'd to other code that they haven't changed/fixed, yet).
If I were a betting person, new feature 'x' for cloud or advertising purposes would take priority over any modification[s] or clean-up/removal.
In other words, there's no ROI (read: profit) in fixing their technical debt, currently, and there hasn't been for almost three years (if we go with the lifetime of the Win10 bar code existing still in the Win code-base).
Why would that suddenly change?
The Win10 bar code has been there, since October 2021, though? I don't know how frequent refactorings are (at M$FT) but given it's been there for nigh three years, I don't see how that's a relevant factor.
Even _if_ it were refactored (and/or cleaned-up), it wouldn't be omitted from the release notes, right?
Unless it's on the roadmap _for_ cleanup, this change to try to "disallow" the program, purely based on the program name and no other identifiers, doesn't give me (don't know about anyone else) much faith that removal would either be executed or executed well (e.g.: legacy Win code spaghetti'd to other code that they haven't changed/fixed, yet).
If I were a betting person, new feature 'x' for cloud or advertising purposes would take priority over any modification[s] or clean-up/removal.
In other words, there's no ROI (read: profit) in fixing their technical debt, currently, and there hasn't been for almost three years (if we go with the lifetime of the Win10 bar code existing still in the Win code-base).
Why would that suddenly change?
> The Win10 bar code has been there, since October 2021, though?
And it could be removed tomorrow. That's the point.
And it could be removed tomorrow. That's the point.
"Could" is, by-and-far, a long stretch from considered, posited, or even planned.
Historical patterns (thus far) have leaned more towards "could not" (three years is not a modicum of time measured in the software lifecycle).
Historical patterns (thus far) have leaned more towards "could not" (three years is not a modicum of time measured in the software lifecycle).
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Man I really miss Litestep at times.
I agree.
The very reason why those tools exist though is because there's a sizeable enough demand. What's under question is that 'unintention', all the more so when features are being removed, without leaving some settings in for power users. Some user experience changes seem backward steps.
The very reason why those tools exist though is because there's a sizeable enough demand. What's under question is that 'unintention', all the more so when features are being removed, without leaving some settings in for power users. Some user experience changes seem backward steps.
He is altering the deal. Pray that he don't alter it any further.
It's worth reminding yourself that there are people at MS actively working to make your lives worse. I'm curious how they feel about implementing such things --- or, when they initially decided to come up with the idea of rewriting the taskbar and removing a bunch of features, was there no opposition from the employees who clearly use Windows themselves? No power users work at MS?
I wonder how long it'll be before someone comes out with a "distro" that combines the Windows 11 kernel with the Windows 2000/XP userland. WinPE 11 exists, and it actually has some bits of UI that still look like Win7.
I wonder how long it'll be before someone comes out with a "distro" that combines the Windows 11 kernel with the Windows 2000/XP userland. WinPE 11 exists, and it actually has some bits of UI that still look like Win7.
Wouldn't wonder if there is a ms internal bullshit free win distro.
I doubt it, based on what some MS employees have commented here in the past.
There are plenty of reasons to skewer Microsoft, but this isn't one of them.
Microsoft isn't blocking all customization apps here, of course. They're blocking known [1][2] unreliable, poorly written, high crash rate software that is extremely sensitive to OS changes, hotfixes, and/or upgrades due to the nature of the software (e.g. hooking functions, patching memory, etc).
The block is geared towards a specific revision of the software. The authors will just need to fix the bugs, rev the executable version, and they're good to go. Again.
[1] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-health/res...
[2] https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher/issues
Microsoft isn't blocking all customization apps here, of course. They're blocking known [1][2] unreliable, poorly written, high crash rate software that is extremely sensitive to OS changes, hotfixes, and/or upgrades due to the nature of the software (e.g. hooking functions, patching memory, etc).
The block is geared towards a specific revision of the software. The authors will just need to fix the bugs, rev the executable version, and they're good to go. Again.
[1] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-health/res...
[2] https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher/issues
If they offered decent in house customisability then people wouldn’t need to resort to unreliable 3rd party solutions.
Why can’t I have a vertical taskbar? Is that really beyond the combined technical ability of a three trillion corp? Obviously not so it’s a conscious choice to not give users options and control
Why can’t I have a vertical taskbar? Is that really beyond the combined technical ability of a three trillion corp? Obviously not so it’s a conscious choice to not give users options and control
The other alternative to blocking is, of course, to offer good UI with robust customization capabilities so others could change "the nature of " their "software" to something more simple and less crash-prone
> They're blocking known [1][2] unreliable, poorly written, high crash rate software that is extremely sensitive to OS changes, hotfixes, and/or upgrades due to the nature of the software (e.g. hooking functions, patching memory, etc).
That people still somehow prefer over native Windows. Makes you realize how bad Windows actually is.
That people still somehow prefer over native Windows. Makes you realize how bad Windows actually is.
Is there any evidence that the software is actually poorly written? Isn't the only reason they use undocumented/unstable hacks that Microsoft refuses to provide a documented or stable way of doing what they want to do?
I linked to the GitHub issue tracker and a documented instance of the software preventing users from booting up Windows.
I think Microsoft's long term vision is to turn all personal computing machines into dumb terminals that must slurp from the azure/office cloud. Enterprise focused with the ability to claim that this way there is DLP built in from your security risks (employees).
In a world where decision makers only need to think of the short term (cloud computing as global/general panacea), I absolutely see this strategy mixed with some 'AI' buzz words seeing traction.
For retail customers, turning the Windows 11+ machine into a console-like brings further advantages.
In a world where decision makers only need to think of the short term (cloud computing as global/general panacea), I absolutely see this strategy mixed with some 'AI' buzz words seeing traction.
For retail customers, turning the Windows 11+ machine into a console-like brings further advantages.
Another indication that the soul searching and decay inside Microsoft is doing its thing (in cycles). It’s a pity seeing a multibillion company not focusing on its core values.
HN readers of a certain age, will for sure remember Windows 8, Windows Vista and Windows Me :-) Windows 11 feels the same for me, and is the reason why it’s not installed in any of my PCs.
Mind you, it’s not that macOS is in a better situation, it’s following the same trajectory for some years now.
This is what happens when a big and established company gets tired and starts loosing its soul (see Boing).
HN readers of a certain age, will for sure remember Windows 8, Windows Vista and Windows Me :-) Windows 11 feels the same for me, and is the reason why it’s not installed in any of my PCs.
Mind you, it’s not that macOS is in a better situation, it’s following the same trajectory for some years now.
This is what happens when a big and established company gets tired and starts loosing its soul (see Boing).
It's really annoying to see microsoft spend 100s of billions on AI and not have side aligned task bar.
I just want some basic functions that were present in all previous Windows versions. Classic start bar in a vertical position on the second screen only. hear my prayers Microsoft
I'm currently sitting on Windows 10 LTSC IoT and refuse to move.
I am now planning, because my laptop is a little old now, to purchase an M3 iMac in a few months or at the end of the year.
I've tried 11 a few times. I do not like it, I do not like the look of it and most of all I absolutely HATE that I cannot have the taskbar on the left hand side of the screen.
I've tried 11 a few times. I do not like it, I do not like the look of it and most of all I absolutely HATE that I cannot have the taskbar on the left hand side of the screen.
Switched to MacOS 10 years ago. Never looked back. And I started with DOS, teached WindowsNT on admin level and kept my Windows installations “alive” through fiddling with the registry (while everyone reinstalled it). Nowadays I live more and more in the terminal…
Extract from Adventures in application compatibility: The case of the jump into the middle of an instruction from nowhere by Raymond Chen. https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20230324-00/?p=10...
> What happened is that we recently made changes to this internal function, and apparently those changes were enough to cause the patcher to go haywire. This is unfortunately a regular occurrence: Whenever a new build goes out, there’s a spike of Explorer crashes because all of these patchers start patching the wrong code, and Explorer starts crashing across all the systems that have these “shell enhancement” programs installed. If you’re really unlucky, their rogue patch crashes something in the Explorer startup path, and users finds themselves stuck with an unusable machine due to Explorer crash loops.
I'm all for blaming Microsoft for all the world's ills, but I'd be inclined to assume good faith on this one.
> What happened is that we recently made changes to this internal function, and apparently those changes were enough to cause the patcher to go haywire. This is unfortunately a regular occurrence: Whenever a new build goes out, there’s a spike of Explorer crashes because all of these patchers start patching the wrong code, and Explorer starts crashing across all the systems that have these “shell enhancement” programs installed. If you’re really unlucky, their rogue patch crashes something in the Explorer startup path, and users finds themselves stuck with an unusable machine due to Explorer crash loops.
I'm all for blaming Microsoft for all the world's ills, but I'd be inclined to assume good faith on this one.
From that same post:
> The interesting thing here was how the program decided where to install its patches, and in particular how it managed to patch an function that was never exported or stored in a vtable: It found the function by contacting the Microsoft symbol server to get the names of all the functions in Explorer and their addresses!
I don't think anyone would make a program do hacky binary patching like that just for fun. Presumably, they did it that way because Microsoft doesn't offer any reasonable way to accomplish the same functionality. If enough people used the hacky binary patch that it produced a noticeable spike in crashes, then I do blame Microsoft for making it necessary in the first place.
> The interesting thing here was how the program decided where to install its patches, and in particular how it managed to patch an function that was never exported or stored in a vtable: It found the function by contacting the Microsoft symbol server to get the names of all the functions in Explorer and their addresses!
I don't think anyone would make a program do hacky binary patching like that just for fun. Presumably, they did it that way because Microsoft doesn't offer any reasonable way to accomplish the same functionality. If enough people used the hacky binary patch that it produced a noticeable spike in crashes, then I do blame Microsoft for making it necessary in the first place.
Frankly, if you want to customize windows, write your own shell instead patching a closed source binary. At the very least, crc before you patch.
Yet the root cause is Microsoft breaking compatibility with user expectations. That program their computer-savvy nephew installed for them? It was installed because Microsoft decided that it would be fine for aunty to re-learn everything. Likely because everybody with a say on the design team is using Macs.
That doesn't jibe with the fix being just simply to rename the executables. If they actually were flawed, renaming them wouldn't remove the flaw...
How do you know renaming them removes the flaw? All we know is that Taras Buria (or their sources) didn't encounter any crashes when they tried it, but not all correctness bugs are immediately obvious.
Okay, then maybe they could stop messing things up instead of blaming their users? I would love to not have to run a third-party patcher to put my taskbar at the top of the screen where I've had it for a decade and a half.
I'd be more sympathetic if microsoft didn't keep making everything worse in each new version of windows since W7.
> Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Even the main picture in the article shows the error message that clearly states:
"A new version might be available"
"A new version might be available"
If they're blocking these programs by the name of the .exe file, then wouldn't a new version still be blocked?
and from my experience, explorer can go haywire with certain file types (eg.: Opus) and merely sleeping and starting the machine again, after a couple of uses.
And some windows machines from the windows 7 era can freeze program by program after some days just being on. On windows 10 you can replicate it by just pulling outages until you see this effect, or someing worse.
And some windows machines from the windows 7 era can freeze program by program after some days just being on. On windows 10 you can replicate it by just pulling outages until you see this effect, or someing worse.
The opus issue is truly unforgivable. The only way to reasonably browse folders that contain opus files for me has been to change the view to a list type, without any metadata detail, then go to the options in explorer to apply that view to all folders of the same type (explorer will automatically pick a set of configurations that changes depending on file type contained in a folder. In this case, it's the "music" type if it detects a majority of audio files).
The issue is caused by the metadata parser and since it doesn't get prompted if you don't use a detailed column view you don't hit the issue that way. Of course, this represents a loss in functionality since you won't be able to sort things by metadata columns like artists/composer/album title etc.
The issue is caused by the metadata parser and since it doesn't get prompted if you don't use a detailed column view you don't hit the issue that way. Of course, this represents a loss in functionality since you won't be able to sort things by metadata columns like artists/composer/album title etc.
It's a pity Microsoft is taking this direction, it's almost like they are completely abandoning their old user base. I feel that they should be doing the opposite of what Apple is doing - remove telemetry and ads, perhaps charge for a "developer" version of the OS, encourage independent software development and help with discovery (i.e. give away free code-signing keys)...
I moved away from Windows as my desktop in 2002 and opted for Apple, and if MS changed their direction - at least for me as a developer - I would embrace "switching back". I'm completely sick of what Apple is doing, and yet aside from open source - where is the large-scale commercial competition that's screaming "we are the opposite of Apple."? I can only speak for myself, however I would be the hugest fanboy for Microsoft if they showed some leadership and actually gave me what I wanted...
Microsoft built its business on developers - some people want to customise their UI - what is the compelling argument to marginalise this minority?
I moved away from Windows as my desktop in 2002 and opted for Apple, and if MS changed their direction - at least for me as a developer - I would embrace "switching back". I'm completely sick of what Apple is doing, and yet aside from open source - where is the large-scale commercial competition that's screaming "we are the opposite of Apple."? I can only speak for myself, however I would be the hugest fanboy for Microsoft if they showed some leadership and actually gave me what I wanted...
Microsoft built its business on developers - some people want to customise their UI - what is the compelling argument to marginalise this minority?
What is Apple doing? macOS doesn’t seem to have changed much in the last few versions, which is great, because it’s a mature OS.
macOS had been completely uneventful for me the last few years and recovered well from the terrible Mojave/Catalina days with the slow overheating Intel MacBooks.
macOS had been completely uneventful for me the last few years and recovered well from the terrible Mojave/Catalina days with the slow overheating Intel MacBooks.
I suppose I'm talking about how they continue to lock-down the os, in combination with their App-store. For example, hooking into the kernel is now very difficult - apps like Little Snitch running on Sonoma have a much harder job. Apple has wholesale telemetry going on that nobody seems to talk about. Apple have very little commitment to backwards compatibility, which is something that Microsoft took very seriously. In terms of GUI, look at what Apple did with the settings menu - it's pretty horrible IMHO - however Microsoft still has the old Control Panel for users that have grown up with it. Distributing an app for OSX outside of the App Store is painful, no cert - the OS just won't run it, it requires diving into the settings menu and forcing it to run - in more extreme cases it requires command-line intervention to force it to run the application... so on and so on...
It's just a trend that makes me unhappy as a developer.
Contrast this with the "old" Apple in 2005/6, I could write a game, put it up for download as a DMG file - and even post it to Apple's website for help with promotion and discovery! There were plenty of 3rd party payment solutions available, Apple didn't take a 30% cut. What they were back in the day is actually helpful.
It's just a trend that makes me unhappy as a developer.
Contrast this with the "old" Apple in 2005/6, I could write a game, put it up for download as a DMG file - and even post it to Apple's website for help with promotion and discovery! There were plenty of 3rd party payment solutions available, Apple didn't take a 30% cut. What they were back in the day is actually helpful.
The only reason Microsoft still have the old control panel is because they haven't gotten around to removing it entirely yet. The old UI has been slowly being killed off for years now. If you think that they're keeping it around to keep people happy then you're very much mistaken.
It's a shame really. I find the big software world so strange now, back in the day companies were really concerned with keeping their user base happy - I wonder why things have gotten to the point where this no longer seems to hold true. Is it because of a lack of alternatives? Or people are being trained to just accept it rather than pushing back?
Weak antitrust enforcement in decades prior allowed Microsoft to gain a near monopoly over desktop operating systems.
Now that the monopoly is established, users don't need to be kept happy.
Now that the monopoly is established, users don't need to be kept happy.
Contrast this with the "old" Apple in 2005/6, I could write a game, put it up for download as a DMG file
You still can? The binary has to be notarized, but Apple doesn’t take a cut, you can run your own store and sell a game.
For example, hooking into the kernel is now very difficult - apps like Little Snitch running on Sonoma have a much harder job.
For most people that’s a good thing. I had many family members that had all kinds of crap installed, including dubious kexts. If you are a more knowledgeable user, you can still disable most protections. Also, about little snitch specifically, obdev now sells are more user-friendly version in the App Store that uses the new user space filtering API. Every kext is a possible compromise with access to kernel space. It’s good that they are deprecating them in favor of user space drivers.
You still can? The binary has to be notarized, but Apple doesn’t take a cut, you can run your own store and sell a game.
For example, hooking into the kernel is now very difficult - apps like Little Snitch running on Sonoma have a much harder job.
For most people that’s a good thing. I had many family members that had all kinds of crap installed, including dubious kexts. If you are a more knowledgeable user, you can still disable most protections. Also, about little snitch specifically, obdev now sells are more user-friendly version in the App Store that uses the new user space filtering API. Every kext is a possible compromise with access to kernel space. It’s good that they are deprecating them in favor of user space drivers.
> You still can? The binary has to be notarized, but Apple doesn’t take a cut, you can run your own store and sell a game.
Yes, however the binary did not have to be signed back then - and I didn't need to pay apple for the privilege of writing software for their OS.
> Also, about little snitch specifically, obdev now sells are more user-friendly version in the App Store that uses the new user space filtering API.
And again, Apple takes their cut and more or less forced Obdev to go in that direction. I agree with you about dubious kexts - however it's just a trend I note - antivirus / third party software filled that hole in the past.
Yes, however the binary did not have to be signed back then - and I didn't need to pay apple for the privilege of writing software for their OS.
> Also, about little snitch specifically, obdev now sells are more user-friendly version in the App Store that uses the new user space filtering API.
And again, Apple takes their cut and more or less forced Obdev to go in that direction. I agree with you about dubious kexts - however it's just a trend I note - antivirus / third party software filled that hole in the past.
I’ll push back on that. Notarization is a great feature. The fact computing didn’t include it was what led to decades of malware stealing billions from people.
Properly implemented, everyone could freely and easily notarize every single piece of code they need to run. Total freedom, with notarized code to give the leeway to the OS maker to remove code when it’s malware.
The fact of the matter is that the OS makers are greedy AF, and don’t stop at requiring notarization. Windows could get rid of most of its malware issues if they allowed everyone to freely notarize, yet they try and ram the Windows Store down everyone’s throat with their locked down Windows attempts. Can’t let a feature get in the way of a play at even more rent-seeking, am I right ?
Properly implemented, everyone could freely and easily notarize every single piece of code they need to run. Total freedom, with notarized code to give the leeway to the OS maker to remove code when it’s malware.
The fact of the matter is that the OS makers are greedy AF, and don’t stop at requiring notarization. Windows could get rid of most of its malware issues if they allowed everyone to freely notarize, yet they try and ram the Windows Store down everyone’s throat with their locked down Windows attempts. Can’t let a feature get in the way of a play at even more rent-seeking, am I right ?
I completely agree - free and easy digital signing would be excellent. Doubly so if there was a way that I could identify myself to the government and receive some kind of hash that could be verified by the OS maker without exposing my identity. This would be a way of protecting my privacy, while also empowering the OS maker to report to the government if something illegal is happening. Of course, I haven't thought this through - and it's reliant upon a government we can absolutely trust not to abuse this. Looking forward to seeing us evolve as a species though ;-)
I think this is a sensationalist article. The unsupported software are blocked on a pre release version of Windows, this is not a final release to consumers. It's very likely to be because some underlying OS changes break these tools which either will be fixed by the authors or by Microsoft before release.
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I'm already being extremely cautious with Windows 11 updates. This includes doing a full disk image backup before installing them. I don't want to get that one special update that breaks ExplorerPatcher, or another update that denies Local Accounts.
So I have all automatic updating blocked, and done in such a way that I can revert back if any important features broke.
In the meantime, is this update that's being named in the article actively going out to people who aren't beta testers? Maybe I'll do my 'final' update for a while soon as long as ExplorerPatcher continues to work.
So I have all automatic updating blocked, and done in such a way that I can revert back if any important features broke.
In the meantime, is this update that's being named in the article actively going out to people who aren't beta testers? Maybe I'll do my 'final' update for a while soon as long as ExplorerPatcher continues to work.
> Like in the case of StartAllBack, you can bypass the block by simply renaming the executable to something else. If you want to upgrade to a newer build, delete the app, update your system, and then launch it using a renamed executable.
This is ridiculous.
I assume they just want to prevent average Joanne to use the tool, but she wouldn't do it either way or even get the idea to look for it. I mean...there are still people out there browsing the internet without UBlock.
So what's the point?
This is ridiculous.
I assume they just want to prevent average Joanne to use the tool, but she wouldn't do it either way or even get the idea to look for it. I mean...there are still people out there browsing the internet without UBlock.
So what's the point?
>So what's the point?
The point is if it breaks after an update you have to get into windows safe mode to unbreak your system if ExplorerPatcher causes an explorer crash loop (which it did in the past after windows updates ran). Even not-too-average Joe might get stumped by this and not immediately know what to do. The process of getting into safe mode is very cumbersome in itself if you need to do it from a system that boots into the desktop without any issue (windows doesn't consider the explorer crashing infinitely to be an issue): you need to forcefully shut down your computer three times /during the boot process of windows/ so that windows thinks "there's an issue" and gets you into the Recovery mode.
It's not like during Windows 7 and older releases where you only needed to press the F8 key to get a menu for safe mode boot. Anything that forces you to attempt to get into safe mode to fix is thoroughly undesirable and unfun to experience.
The point is if it breaks after an update you have to get into windows safe mode to unbreak your system if ExplorerPatcher causes an explorer crash loop (which it did in the past after windows updates ran). Even not-too-average Joe might get stumped by this and not immediately know what to do. The process of getting into safe mode is very cumbersome in itself if you need to do it from a system that boots into the desktop without any issue (windows doesn't consider the explorer crashing infinitely to be an issue): you need to forcefully shut down your computer three times /during the boot process of windows/ so that windows thinks "there's an issue" and gets you into the Recovery mode.
It's not like during Windows 7 and older releases where you only needed to press the F8 key to get a menu for safe mode boot. Anything that forces you to attempt to get into safe mode to fix is thoroughly undesirable and unfun to experience.
I'd love to know why Microsoft takes this sort of passive aggressive breaking of applications to try to change and fix their obviously sub-par UI in Windows 11, trying to force users to accept and adapt to it, vs improving it by putting it back to what it was a built-in option, and now blocking software to do so. It's like someone there takes public hatred of their changes personally as an affront, and insists users should just deal with it and the crappy UI changes everyone hates. It is like the stink of Steve Ballmer never left.
I use Linux for everything desktop for almost 20 years now, but keep a windoze vm for Visio, Project, or random other windoze-only crap, and windows 11 just looks grating to even consider. As most do historically, I skip every other windoze version, it has literally added nothing I need since windows xp, and would continue to use it if I could get OS security patches still as a runtime environment for the few mentioned applications.
For the little I do use it, ie. basic navigation and launching apps in the task bar, Microsoft almost ruins what I do have to habitually since XP. I never wanted or needed anything added in 7, 8, 10, or 11.
I use Linux for everything desktop for almost 20 years now, but keep a windoze vm for Visio, Project, or random other windoze-only crap, and windows 11 just looks grating to even consider. As most do historically, I skip every other windoze version, it has literally added nothing I need since windows xp, and would continue to use it if I could get OS security patches still as a runtime environment for the few mentioned applications.
For the little I do use it, ie. basic navigation and launching apps in the task bar, Microsoft almost ruins what I do have to habitually since XP. I never wanted or needed anything added in 7, 8, 10, or 11.
If gaming anticheat and media DRM worked on Linux I’d be so gone
Widevine kind of works on Linux IIRC, but hardware accelerated VP9 decode is a huge issue still. It was fine for a while, then Google broke support in Chromium and made it work only in their ecosystem (ChromeOS).
>Widevine kind of works on Linux IIRC
Haven't looked at it in a while, but last I did it "worked". Resolution on netflix ends up being fine - 1080p - but I couldn't help shake the feeling that its worse.
...check bitrates and sure enough...less than half. Never worked out why, but that's a bit of a show stopper when combined with no online shooters.
Haven't looked at it in a while, but last I did it "worked". Resolution on netflix ends up being fine - 1080p - but I couldn't help shake the feeling that its worse.
...check bitrates and sure enough...less than half. Never worked out why, but that's a bit of a show stopper when combined with no online shooters.
Not the first time something like this has happened. You can try lying about your User Agent next time, it could work!
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022/07/microsofts-xcloud-gam...
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022/07/microsofts-xcloud-gam...
Expecting this to be continuously possible on a proprietary OS is a lost cause. Even the LLM world has practically mirrored this.
It was possible for literal decades, what are you going on about?
It was also possible to install an OS without needing to create an account.
Renaming the files fixes it, you can run them as usual.
It's like they are actively trying to force users to switch to something different.
Microsoft gonna Microsoft. It's to be expected that they try to shape user behavior to what they want with scary messages about "security and performance". Wait till they do the same with e.g. non-Edge browsers.
I'm unfamiliar with the majority of these customization apps as I remain on Windows 10. Are the two apps mentioned (ExplorerPatch and StartAllBack) the most common user tweaking utilities atm?
For taskbar.
Many other utilities are there. Most are normal apps. Some tweak registry. Taskbar replacement uses deeper tweaks, hence the claim that they are creating security issues.
Many other utilities are there. Most are normal apps. Some tweak registry. Taskbar replacement uses deeper tweaks, hence the claim that they are creating security issues.
Guess it's time to jump to macOS finally.
I've always wanted to try that but due to prohibitive costs never did.
But with more and more Windows shenanigans I guess it's time to bite the bullet and make the switch .
I've always wanted to try that but due to prohibitive costs never did.
But with more and more Windows shenanigans I guess it's time to bite the bullet and make the switch .
I don't think the right solution for feeling hostage of a proprietary OS is to switch to another proprietary OS.
as someone with about 15y exclusive (and then on and off basis) windows experience and then 10y of mac experience I'm finally contemplating moving to Linux... before I moved to mac I already tried to use open source, multi platform apps (libre office, thunderbird for example) so the switch was relatively painless. And I also stopped playing that many games (age and mac limitations). I also use a lot of Linux (mostly servers and mac shell) and got steam deck recently and oh gosh it's so nice - everything just works, you can run virtually any game and it's not so imposing as windows or mac
I expect this will be resolved with an update quickly, but ExplorerPatcher is wonderful and absolutely key to my enjoyment of Windows 11.
> you can bypass the block by simply renaming the executable to something else
what a theater!
what a theater!
this is why you run hellzerg/optimizer on install and never update windows again. sigh…
Windows = Adware
Windows? Oh I'd forgotten about that giggles behind Linux desktop
You've forgotten about the most popular OS on this planet?
I wouldn't take an OS recommendation from a person who happened to forget about that.
I wouldn't take an OS recommendation from a person who happened to forget about that.
> "You've forgotten about the most popular OS on this planet?"
Android? That's Linux-based.
Android? That's Linux-based.
Sorry to have offended you - it was intended in humour as I have switched from using Windows as a daily driver and now I'm happily using Fedora. But don't worry, you can continue to use whatever you prefer.
You did not offend me...you've posted one of the most annoying memes on internet forums and communities. It stopped being funny many years ago. Especially on Windows topics, it only displays an attitude of ignorance while simultaneously derailing any relevant discussion.
Ah. Well in that case I'm sorry for whatever is eating at you, because it surely isn't just a random internet person gloating about their choice of operating system. I wish you a better day, truly.
What really made me worry about the future of the Windows ecosystem is the increasing amount of telemetry and Microsoft's endless attempts at trying to monetise every part of the system at the expense of my user experience, even if I paid for a license.
Making the base OS usable by disabling telemetry (and Cortana) hidden away in the settings has become a hassle. The UX dark patterns trying to make me switch from Firefox to Edge has become tiring for me. Them experimenting with ads in the file system, even if it was an experimental feature that was "never meant" for public release, made me wonder how far they were willing to push it in future Windows iterations, so I made the switch.
Edit: Worth mentioning that I switched to Fedora XFCE and I stuck with it because it doesn't get in the way of my workflow. I also noticed that it doesn't use as much background resources as W10 which is great.