Balaji Srinivasan calls for tech to "exit democracy" and seize local governments(newrepublic.com)
newrepublic.com
Balaji Srinivasan calls for tech to "exit democracy" and seize local governments
https://newrepublic.com/article/180487/balaji-srinivasan-network-state-plutocrat
110 comments
If I had any illusions that big tech could run the world better than anybody else, I'd be more sympathetic to this position. I'd love to see a tech company try to function in a world where they can't just lay people off, or pivot in another direction, or sell off assets. In the real world, governments need stability, continuity, and at least some level of concern for people rather than OKRs. Tech companies are successful at making money—some of them, some of the time—but there is absolutely no evidence that they'd be good at doing anything else. They're optimized around a different set of rules, and a different game than governments are. It's just hubris and ignorance that would lead them to think they can apply their ridiculous systems to the world outside their gates.
>They're optimized around a different set of rules, and a different game than governments are. It's just hubris and ignorance that would lead them to think they can apply their ridiculous systems to the world outside their gates.
What's ridiculous is that you can look at governments today, at any level, and imagine them being run worse.
What's ridiculous is that you can look at governments today, at any level, and imagine them being run worse.
It's incredibly easy, we have examples of dictatorships and fascism in living memory.
I’m going to guess that people that look at democracy and denounce it as the worst possible system have either not heard of fascism, or have heard of it and think that they would do well being ruled by literally anyone that happens to run the system that imposes it
Yes, believe it or not, government is not always maximally evil, corrupt and incompetent at all levels, all of the time.
We live in a complex reality full of nuance, not a cartoon.
We live in a complex reality full of nuance, not a cartoon.
It's really easy for me to imagine my government being run worse than it is today.
But anyway, it's a fallacy to think that just because something is bad, replacing it with just anything at all would be an improvement. The thing you replace government with would have to be better suited to it, which there is just no basis for saying Silicon Valley is. In fact, there's enough evidence that SV is bad at governing their own very very small kingdoms, even with the benefit of an existing infrastructure and rule of law, established by others, in place.
Man, it's weird for me to be in the position of defending government. I'm not that guy. But tech leadership is just laughably unsuited to replacing them.
But anyway, it's a fallacy to think that just because something is bad, replacing it with just anything at all would be an improvement. The thing you replace government with would have to be better suited to it, which there is just no basis for saying Silicon Valley is. In fact, there's enough evidence that SV is bad at governing their own very very small kingdoms, even with the benefit of an existing infrastructure and rule of law, established by others, in place.
Man, it's weird for me to be in the position of defending government. I'm not that guy. But tech leadership is just laughably unsuited to replacing them.
Tech people tend to be good at tech (duh), but not as good at relating to people. Well, government, politics, and civics are all about relating to people - many of them who are different from you, and different from each other.
So, as you say, the tech people are unsuited for this role - maybe even uniquely unsuited. But they don't know what they don't know, and in blissful, arrogant ignorance, they decide that of course they'd be great at it. They wouldn't. They'd be terrible at it, even at local government.
So, as you say, the tech people are unsuited for this role - maybe even uniquely unsuited. But they don't know what they don't know, and in blissful, arrogant ignorance, they decide that of course they'd be great at it. They wouldn't. They'd be terrible at it, even at local government.
Tech: "Government is easy, just kill everyone and replace them with robots".
Of course that isn't significantly different than authoritarianism: "Government is easy, just kill anyone that says anything bad about you".
Turns out democracy is just really hard.
Of course that isn't significantly different than authoritarianism: "Government is easy, just kill anyone that says anything bad about you".
Turns out democracy is just really hard.
You don’t need to imagine. Just look at some other countries. Look at Russia, for example, it’s even the worst one.
Americans are so spoiled by their state, it can be better, but it can be so much worse.
Americans are so spoiled by their state, it can be better, but it can be so much worse.
Yes, very easily. Go to a second or third world country and you will see what a bad government looks like.
The stability of western governance breeds the idea that this is just the natural state of things. Same thing with anti-vaxxers thinking we don’t need vaccines because they have no memory of what life was like before them.
The stability of western governance breeds the idea that this is just the natural state of things. Same thing with anti-vaxxers thinking we don’t need vaccines because they have no memory of what life was like before them.
> What's ridiculous is that you can look at governments today, at any level, and imagine them being run worse.
That's a pithy and meaningless statement that doesn't add anything constructive to the conversation. If we take it as true, then we'd have to assume that you're actually optimistic about government, since it suggests that the only direction we can go is up.
But of course the reality is that that for as dysfunctional or corrupt as we might see some operating government, of course it could still be even much worse so still. That doesn't even require imagination, since examples abound across modern geography and even recent history.
If you can't even imagine things that are plainly visible in reality, then, sure I can see why you might struggle to imagine what could be worse. But we're not all so afflicted.
That's a pithy and meaningless statement that doesn't add anything constructive to the conversation. If we take it as true, then we'd have to assume that you're actually optimistic about government, since it suggests that the only direction we can go is up.
But of course the reality is that that for as dysfunctional or corrupt as we might see some operating government, of course it could still be even much worse so still. That doesn't even require imagination, since examples abound across modern geography and even recent history.
If you can't even imagine things that are plainly visible in reality, then, sure I can see why you might struggle to imagine what could be worse. But we're not all so afflicted.
I'm not sure if you're aware of how much irreducible complexity the overall government apparatus deals with.
Yeah there are simple things that can be improved, like not using physical mail, and better appointment handling and such. That exists. But if you talk to people working in this business... those are the easy parts and people are working on those.
Then there is thousands of requests for building permits and these have to be checked, or people die because of buildings collapsing. And you need a skilled person to look at each individual location one at a time, because of physics. Those parts are really hard.
Yeah there are simple things that can be improved, like not using physical mail, and better appointment handling and such. That exists. But if you talk to people working in this business... those are the easy parts and people are working on those.
Then there is thousands of requests for building permits and these have to be checked, or people die because of buildings collapsing. And you need a skilled person to look at each individual location one at a time, because of physics. Those parts are really hard.
Well let's look into history on Red Khmers or pre-WW2 massacres of Stalin's Russia. Yes it can be much worse.
I am not having any illusions about Tech companies who are either running as dictatorship or feudalism (Board + C-suites making decisions like aristocracy), rest either goes along or is punished.
I am not having any illusions about Tech companies who are either running as dictatorship or feudalism (Board + C-suites making decisions like aristocracy), rest either goes along or is punished.
[deleted]
Writing something like this should be socially equivalent to soiling yourself in public, and yet a number of higher-ups in the SV/VC space (plus plenty or regular techies) seem to support this guy. It is truly disturbing.
This is so insane that it’s hard to believe.
Morons like him are the reason I almost never talk about working in tech to most people. It seems pretty clear to me at this point that the bubble a large number of VCs/"tech bros" (for lack of a better term) exist in is psychologically harmful.
me too,
its so embarassing that the types of people like balaji represent us as an industry. my friends outside of tech world now treat being a software developer as a red flag
its so embarassing that the types of people like balaji represent us as an industry. my friends outside of tech world now treat being a software developer as a red flag
insane, and childlike in its binary vision of what humanity is. it's like YA fiction. The notion that grown adults in 2024 in San Francisco, of all places, would be down with wearing a uniform in daily life, is so out to lunch I am presuming/hoping he means it as some kind of joke.
i see plenty of patagonia uniforms in SF :)
what do you think a hoodie with a corporate logo is?
Free clothing
This is a good point. Nobody wears uniforms that are just given to them
downvote if you suffer from cognitive dissonance :)
I had to check if it was April 1.
Any of the creators of the "Silicon Valley" TV show want a pitch for a new season?
Any of the creators of the "Silicon Valley" TV show want a pitch for a new season?
Impressive, this is some of the most absolutely batshit crazy ranting I have seen in quite a while, and one of my hobbies is talking to crazy people.
I assume “grays” is riffing on the alleged alien type, and truly the whole master plan is like a caricature of a conspiracy theory.
Yes fellow humans, you enjoy your so called “banquets” do you not? Prepare to submit to my rule!
I assume “grays” is riffing on the alleged alien type, and truly the whole master plan is like a caricature of a conspiracy theory.
Yes fellow humans, you enjoy your so called “banquets” do you not? Prepare to submit to my rule!
Greys is a reference to Slate Star Codex: https://www.slatestarcodexabridged.com/I-Can-Tolerate-Anythi...
Originally described in 2014 as: "typified by libertarian political beliefs, Dawkins- style atheism, vague annoyance that the question of gay rights even comes up, eating paleo, drinking Soylent, calling in rides on Uber, reading lots of blogs, calling American football “sportsball”, getting conspicuously upset about the War on Drugs and the NSA, and listening to filk – but for our current purposes this is a distraction and they can safely be considered part of the Blue Tribe most of the time"
But since then the tech world went off the deep end into anti-wokeness and the left has (rightfully imo) come to resent tech and tech companies so they've moved to be on the side of the "red tribe"
Originally described in 2014 as: "typified by libertarian political beliefs, Dawkins- style atheism, vague annoyance that the question of gay rights even comes up, eating paleo, drinking Soylent, calling in rides on Uber, reading lots of blogs, calling American football “sportsball”, getting conspicuously upset about the War on Drugs and the NSA, and listening to filk – but for our current purposes this is a distraction and they can safely be considered part of the Blue Tribe most of the time"
But since then the tech world went off the deep end into anti-wokeness and the left has (rightfully imo) come to resent tech and tech companies so they've moved to be on the side of the "red tribe"
Most of the 'gray tribe' stuff I remember was them being performatively over-upset with anyone left of Republicans, and mysteriously quiet about Republicans. A whole lot of 'both sides are the same' on drugs and war.
So basically, they were Republican kids from Republican families too embarressed to admit that to themselves or others.
For gay rights, see Log Cabin Republicans, out and proud gay Republicans, so basic acceptance of gay people having a right to exist doesn't make you automatically Blue.
So basically, they were Republican kids from Republican families too embarressed to admit that to themselves or others.
For gay rights, see Log Cabin Republicans, out and proud gay Republicans, so basic acceptance of gay people having a right to exist doesn't make you automatically Blue.
The funny thing is, the red tribe hates them anyway. Trump isn't a tech guy, he's a politically untreatable NPD[1] case, and he only values sycophants that will stay consistently loyal to him. Big Tech banning Trump off social media[0] means that, whether they wanted to or not, they took the blue tribe's side.
And of course, blue tribe hates them, too. Grey tribe's social progressiveness is mostly an accident. They're perfectly fine selling weapons to war criminals just as much as they're fine selling lattes at a gay pride parade. And the shit they did to build up and then tear down red tribe's electoral chances could easily just be applied to blue tribe this time around.
[0] After four years of deliberately exempting him from their own moderation rules, of course
[1] Narcissistic personality disorder
And of course, blue tribe hates them, too. Grey tribe's social progressiveness is mostly an accident. They're perfectly fine selling weapons to war criminals just as much as they're fine selling lattes at a gay pride parade. And the shit they did to build up and then tear down red tribe's electoral chances could easily just be applied to blue tribe this time around.
[0] After four years of deliberately exempting him from their own moderation rules, of course
[1] Narcissistic personality disorder
> Grey tribe's social progressiveness is mostly an accident
It’s not an accident. It’s rooted in the counter culture moment that was that basis for Silicon Valley moving beyond weapons manufacturing and embracing the internet.
It’s not an accident. It’s rooted in the counter culture moment that was that basis for Silicon Valley moving beyond weapons manufacturing and embracing the internet.
kmeisthax(1)
It's pretty clearly tongue in cheek
> “Grays should embrace the police, okay? All-in on the police,” said Srinivasan. “What does that mean? That’s, as I said, banquets. That means every policeman’s son, daughter, wife, cousin, you know, sibling, whatever, should get a job at a tech company in security.”
Politicians do this today. Deep blue politicians in New York have the police in their pocket just as much as in any red state.
> “A huge win would be a Gray Pride Parade with 50,000 Grays,” said Srinivasan. “That would start to say: ‘Whose streets? Our streets!’ You have the AI Flying Spaghetti Monster. You have the Bitcoin parade. You have the drones flying overhead in formation ... You have bubbling genetic experiments on beakers … You have the police at the Gray Pride Parade. They’re flying the Anduril drones…”
> Everyone would be welcome at the Gray Pride march—everyone, that is, except the Blues. Srinivasan defines the Blue political tribe as the liberal voters he implies are responsible for the city’s problems. Blues will be banned from the Gray-controlled zones, said Balaji, unlike Republicans (“Reds”).
This is literally what a gay pride march is.
> While the Blues would be excluded, they would not be forgotten. Srinivasan imagines public screenings of anti-Blue propaganda films: “In addition to celebrating Gray and celebrating Red, you should have movies shown about Blue abuses … There should be lots of stories about what Blues are doing that is bad.”
Ever watch a Michael Moore film?
> “Grays should embrace the police, okay? All-in on the police,” said Srinivasan. “What does that mean? That’s, as I said, banquets. That means every policeman’s son, daughter, wife, cousin, you know, sibling, whatever, should get a job at a tech company in security.”
Politicians do this today. Deep blue politicians in New York have the police in their pocket just as much as in any red state.
> “A huge win would be a Gray Pride Parade with 50,000 Grays,” said Srinivasan. “That would start to say: ‘Whose streets? Our streets!’ You have the AI Flying Spaghetti Monster. You have the Bitcoin parade. You have the drones flying overhead in formation ... You have bubbling genetic experiments on beakers … You have the police at the Gray Pride Parade. They’re flying the Anduril drones…”
> Everyone would be welcome at the Gray Pride march—everyone, that is, except the Blues. Srinivasan defines the Blue political tribe as the liberal voters he implies are responsible for the city’s problems. Blues will be banned from the Gray-controlled zones, said Balaji, unlike Republicans (“Reds”).
This is literally what a gay pride march is.
> While the Blues would be excluded, they would not be forgotten. Srinivasan imagines public screenings of anti-Blue propaganda films: “In addition to celebrating Gray and celebrating Red, you should have movies shown about Blue abuses … There should be lots of stories about what Blues are doing that is bad.”
Ever watch a Michael Moore film?
I totally disagree with your politics,
but I do think that your explanations make sense, or rather- while I think he is earnest in wanted a new state ruled by "Grey Tribe", given the book listed at the top he wrote: The Network State: How To Start a New Country, but these specific complaints do feel like he's doing a mean Haha gotcha, how would it feel now ?? sort of style
Or I guess put another way, I think he is both earnestly wanting it but also choosing these examples to be a comparison so it seems "fair"
but I do think that your explanations make sense, or rather- while I think he is earnest in wanted a new state ruled by "Grey Tribe", given the book listed at the top he wrote: The Network State: How To Start a New Country, but these specific complaints do feel like he's doing a mean Haha gotcha, how would it feel now ?? sort of style
Or I guess put another way, I think he is both earnestly wanting it but also choosing these examples to be a comparison so it seems "fair"
This is the problem with living in a democracy while working for a feudal corporation. You might get it in your head that a feudal political structure is somehow more efficient, rewarding, or just, and bring this with you to the voting booth.
We desperately need more democracy in the workplace.
We desperately need more democracy in the workplace.
Why is this article flagged? It seems very appropriate to be here.
Most politics is off-topic for HN. Also, it typically leads to shouting matches, which are terrible discussions. It's not what HN aims for, and so political articles usually get flagged.
Arguably, this one is more on-topic than most politics. Also arguably, the discussion hasn't degenerated (yet). So, maybe flagged just because of politics, rather than because the discussion is awful.
By the way, flagging is done by users, not by the moderators. So it's us, not YC, that thinks this is problematic (or likely to become so).
Arguably, this one is more on-topic than most politics. Also arguably, the discussion hasn't degenerated (yet). So, maybe flagged just because of politics, rather than because the discussion is awful.
By the way, flagging is done by users, not by the moderators. So it's us, not YC, that thinks this is problematic (or likely to become so).
From the article:
>"described a speech in which he “told a group of young entrepreneurs that the United States had become ‘the Microsoft of nations’: outdated and obsolescent.”
“The speech won roars from the audience at Y Combinator, a leading start-up incubator,”
I think this article is the most on-topic there could be.
The users here that want Tech News and Tech News only are doing themselves, and the community a disservice.
>"described a speech in which he “told a group of young entrepreneurs that the United States had become ‘the Microsoft of nations’: outdated and obsolescent.”
“The speech won roars from the audience at Y Combinator, a leading start-up incubator,”
I think this article is the most on-topic there could be.
The users here that want Tech News and Tech News only are doing themselves, and the community a disservice.
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I fear the flagging is most likely by people who sympathize with Balaji's worldview, and don't like reading the comments criticizing it.
Are not posts where there is a potential conflict of interest explicitly called out as something that HN works to not censor?
User flags can be overridden by moderators. There are some very notable examples, usually I have been very impressed by this.
So far, this is not one of those cases.
User flags can be overridden by moderators. There are some very notable examples, usually I have been very impressed by this.
So far, this is not one of those cases.
Well this part of the article could be one reason why:
>Even more disturbing, however, is Balaji’s tight connection with Tan, the Y Combinator CEO who has publicly aligned himself with the Network State for years. “I legit believe [Y Combinator] is a prototype model for what @balajis talks about when he says the Network State,” wrote Tan in August 2022, shortly before he was named CEO.
>Even more disturbing, however, is Balaji’s tight connection with Tan, the Y Combinator CEO who has publicly aligned himself with the Network State for years. “I legit believe [Y Combinator] is a prototype model for what @balajis talks about when he says the Network State,” wrote Tan in August 2022, shortly before he was named CEO.
Because $$$
I didn't know Garry Tan, the current Y Combinator CEO, was such a nut job...
The quotes cited are straight up fascism...
The quotes cited are straight up fascism...
As I love this website, and the societal benefit which real YC disruption has accomplished, so very much, I wish that I could disagree with you.
I must be misunderstanding something. Please someone explain this to me.
I must be misunderstanding something. Please someone explain this to me.
> The idea, he said, is to do to San Francisco what Musk did to Twitter.
This is such a wonderful, perfect metaphor for who Balaji is and the merit of his ideas.
Please leave SF alone. It’s a city with a ton of problems, but it’d be a whole lot worse as whatever, um, this is.
I honestly genuinely hate that I have to push back against non-tech folks hating on tech people and assuming we’re all like Balaji and Musk. However, the amount of people who support them makes me take a step back and realize that I really might not fit in with the tech community at all. Stuff like this disgusts me.
This is such a wonderful, perfect metaphor for who Balaji is and the merit of his ideas.
Please leave SF alone. It’s a city with a ton of problems, but it’d be a whole lot worse as whatever, um, this is.
I honestly genuinely hate that I have to push back against non-tech folks hating on tech people and assuming we’re all like Balaji and Musk. However, the amount of people who support them makes me take a step back and realize that I really might not fit in with the tech community at all. Stuff like this disgusts me.
Balaji is a clown, a few years ago he was calling bitcoin a battery, because you can sell it and buy electricity with the money you got.
By this logic everything is a battery, a $100 bill is a battery, ...
By this logic everything is a battery, a $100 bill is a battery, ...
He lost one million dollars in an insane bet he made with a guy on Twitter about hyperinflation.
> Everyone would be welcome at the Gray Pride march—everyone, that is, except the Blues. Srinivasan defines the Blue political tribe as the liberal voters he implies are responsible for the city’s problems. Blues will be banned from the Gray-controlled zones, said Balaji, unlike Republicans (“Reds”).
So a reverse CHAZ?
So a reverse CHAZ?
It's either this or face another Nika riot of 532.
Balaji (2021):
> Btw, I rarely post personal news on here, but I moved to Asia awhile back and will be splitting time between India and Singapore .
> Why? They are optimistic on technology, they’ve brought hundreds of millions of people online, and they both speak தமிழ் & have great dosas!
https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1355088787286544384
---
Meta Edit: I would just like to add that this one of the most vibrant recent discussions, with many 5 digit karma posters, and this is not a flame war.
This seems to happen a lot in the last couple years. Some of the most interesting discussions now appear to happen, post-flag. What does this mean for HN?
> Btw, I rarely post personal news on here, but I moved to Asia awhile back and will be splitting time between India and Singapore .
> Why? They are optimistic on technology, they’ve brought hundreds of millions of people online, and they both speak தமிழ் & have great dosas!
https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1355088787286544384
---
Meta Edit: I would just like to add that this one of the most vibrant recent discussions, with many 5 digit karma posters, and this is not a flame war.
This seems to happen a lot in the last couple years. Some of the most interesting discussions now appear to happen, post-flag. What does this mean for HN?
A creative mind that follows many trails spends time in very odd places. I too have some, uh, highly idiosyncratic notions, but that I prefer not to mention. I suspect that people who don't have been following fewer trails. I value these odd characters as scouts that happen to report the occasional bigfoot. If you take them as oracles, yeah they're horrible. If you take them as a source for "anything that good hackers would find interesting", there are pearls in the dross.
There are plenty of other idiosyncratic people out there who aren't, entirely literally, calling for ethnic cleansing.
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
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I haven't been to SF since many years. Is it really that bad? Moving around, especially for rich tech people, especially within the US and the developed world in general, is really easy. If SF is really such a catastrophe, why are so many still there? To me it sounds a bit like some of the tech bros want to get into politics as a hobby and they picked this issue because it's especially salient to them. From far away it looks ... bizarre.
> it sounds a bit like some of the tech bros want to get into politics as a hobby and they picked this issue because it's especially salient to them
It's pretty much this.
SF has issues, but a lot of that is visible only because the Financial District directly neighbors the poorest part of the city (Tenderloin, 6th street, civic center)
It's pretty much this.
SF has issues, but a lot of that is visible only because the Financial District directly neighbors the poorest part of the city (Tenderloin, 6th street, civic center)
Yeah. I’ve been there less recently than I used to go. Maybe the last time I was at the Moscone for an event I was sort of steeling myself for the zombie apocalypse. And yeah it’s not great around there and Union Square. I usually stay towards the Ferry Building to avoid the worst. But it’s not IMO much worse than it’s been for years and years.
Some of this has to do with modern reporting, in specific by a few major news outlets, but that gets carried over into online discussions.
One particular one I saw recently was an individual in NYC saying "I was really afraid to come here because of what they are saying on the news, but really this is not much different than my hometown homelessness wise".
Seems like a new form of "Missing white woman syndrome".
One particular one I saw recently was an individual in NYC saying "I was really afraid to come here because of what they are saying on the news, but really this is not much different than my hometown homelessness wise".
Seems like a new form of "Missing white woman syndrome".
Yep. I think most recent Bay Area transplants got used to how clean and shiny SF was in the 2010-17 period, which was inherently an anomaly in SF's history.
It's always had a transient issue, and the high availability of support resource, the conversions of RSOs into hotels and airbnbs made visible, and the increased gentrification of SF (upper middle class white collar families didn't live in Mission, much of the SoMA-Potrero flatlands, much of Castro, etc until the 2010s) made these extremely visible.
Now that hybrid work has been normalized, I expect to see housing in the inner city (Tenderloin, Union Square) portion of SF to become significantly affordable, as those boutique hotels are returning to their RSO roots. And it already has based on the lack of rent increases with my former landlord's management company (all the 1-2 bdrms their renting out have stabilized in the $1500-2000/mo range in the inner city areas)
The city still has a lot of value in the tech ecosystem, but there's a reason the tech industry is called "Silicon Valley", not San Francisco. The gravity has always been in Santa Clara County, and always will be, but now San Francisco County has a decent bigtech scene as well (which didn't really exist there before the 2000s).
It's always had a transient issue, and the high availability of support resource, the conversions of RSOs into hotels and airbnbs made visible, and the increased gentrification of SF (upper middle class white collar families didn't live in Mission, much of the SoMA-Potrero flatlands, much of Castro, etc until the 2010s) made these extremely visible.
Now that hybrid work has been normalized, I expect to see housing in the inner city (Tenderloin, Union Square) portion of SF to become significantly affordable, as those boutique hotels are returning to their RSO roots. And it already has based on the lack of rent increases with my former landlord's management company (all the 1-2 bdrms their renting out have stabilized in the $1500-2000/mo range in the inner city areas)
The city still has a lot of value in the tech ecosystem, but there's a reason the tech industry is called "Silicon Valley", not San Francisco. The gravity has always been in Santa Clara County, and always will be, but now San Francisco County has a decent bigtech scene as well (which didn't really exist there before the 2000s).
I’m not sure I’d describe San Francisco as a whole as being clean and shiny at any point in probably in living memory if you take cities like Singapore as benchmarks. But in 1990s- maybe 2000s say it was probably not advised to walk on Howard especially after dark and generally south of Market was often viewed as sketchy.
I’m not sure it’s just about hybrid either. To the degree that at least certain cities are increasingly seen as having more cons than pro I expect a lot more people will pass especially to the degree they’re not more convenient for working. Of course this can become a cycle as it has in the past.
I’m not sure it’s just about hybrid either. To the degree that at least certain cities are increasingly seen as having more cons than pro I expect a lot more people will pass especially to the degree they’re not more convenient for working. Of course this can become a cycle as it has in the past.
[deleted]
[deleted]
I think most “Tech Bros” rarely live outside of a few neighborhoods as well - SOMA, Mission/Mission Bay, Marina (rarer) or Pac Heights for the executives.
Much of the city has issues and it spills into the other neighborhoods, but campaigning primarily on the plight of those specific neighborhoods (which, with exception to pac heights and Mission bay, are where much of the problems are most severe) isn’t going to get you elected to citywide offices.
Much of the city has issues and it spills into the other neighborhoods, but campaigning primarily on the plight of those specific neighborhoods (which, with exception to pac heights and Mission bay, are where much of the problems are most severe) isn’t going to get you elected to citywide offices.
[deleted]
[deleted]
“Balaji is a friend of mine and is neither a dumbshit nor a clown,” tweeted economics blogger Noah Smith last June, defending Balaji from critics.
I think there's a lack of appropriate adjectives for people like Balaji and also Musk or even Marc Andreesen. It's plainly obvious that none of them are actually dumb. These are clearly people with high IQs and active imaginations. Where they fall down is in being prone to being wildly irrational. They're also just self-absorbed and seemingly lacking in empathy and compassion.
> These are clearly people with high IQs and active imaginations. Where they fall down is in being prone to being wildly irrational. They're also just self-absorbed and seemingly lacking in empathy and compassion.
What you are missing is that extreme wealth insulates them from any significant personal consequences of their logical imaginativeness, so such feedback never gets incorporated into their logic.
If the rest of us espoused fascism and then lost our jobs and standing in our communities, we would be in real trouble.
For the tech uber-wealthy (pun intended), money is community. Your community (peers or acolytes) will keep boosting you as long as you have it, because it completes the circular logic that explains your success.
What you are missing is that extreme wealth insulates them from any significant personal consequences of their logical imaginativeness, so such feedback never gets incorporated into their logic.
If the rest of us espoused fascism and then lost our jobs and standing in our communities, we would be in real trouble.
For the tech uber-wealthy (pun intended), money is community. Your community (peers or acolytes) will keep boosting you as long as you have it, because it completes the circular logic that explains your success.
The most dangerous thing to the dictators is yes men.
I tend to see it the opposite way. Yes men are the ones who enable dictators (also cult leaders). Perhaps that's what you actually meant?
This is a weird case of yes to both...
Think of it this way, the yes man will enable the leader to drive the fully loaded truck at 100MPH even when the brakes are bad. The yes man also won't tell the leader they are rapidly approaching a cliff either.
Think of it this way, the yes man will enable the leader to drive the fully loaded truck at 100MPH even when the brakes are bad. The yes man also won't tell the leader they are rapidly approaching a cliff either.
I call it "Engineer Brain" after watching a talented relative descend into madness trying learn virology during the pandemic. It was further crystalized after the Titan submersible incident and reading about the terminal hubris of Stockton Rush.
We spend our lives specializing into ever smaller subdomains of already small domains. A lifetime of bending your brain in one direction, being well compensated, being told you are smart... it leads to tremendous gaffs once you step out of your little specialized world.
It's important to maintain a deep humbleness and acknowledge the gaps in your knowledge. Don't disregard experts in other fields because they are saying things that conflict with your biases. Learn to identify your biases and think about how they may limit you from gaining understanding. It's much more fun to go through life with the attitude of not knowing everything and listening to people who know what they know.
We spend our lives specializing into ever smaller subdomains of already small domains. A lifetime of bending your brain in one direction, being well compensated, being told you are smart... it leads to tremendous gaffs once you step out of your little specialized world.
It's important to maintain a deep humbleness and acknowledge the gaps in your knowledge. Don't disregard experts in other fields because they are saying things that conflict with your biases. Learn to identify your biases and think about how they may limit you from gaining understanding. It's much more fun to go through life with the attitude of not knowing everything and listening to people who know what they know.
It would be far worse to silo everything off to "experts" in their field. Usually such deference is just a cop out for not learning what they learned.
Often the best work is done when combining the knowledge of people from different fields. Humility is important but more collaboration is needed, not less.
Often the best work is done when combining the knowledge of people from different fields. Humility is important but more collaboration is needed, not less.
I don't disagree. My two examples were people who not only did not collaborate, but actively resented the knowledge offered from experts different fields.
I do think that past successful collaboration can lead to a bias though. As a programmer I've solved problems for a variety of disparate industries and fields. I know just enough to know I'm vastly ignorant of those fields save for a little part that I helped solve problems for. But I've seen colleagues go the opposite route.
I do think that past successful collaboration can lead to a bias though. As a programmer I've solved problems for a variety of disparate industries and fields. I know just enough to know I'm vastly ignorant of those fields save for a little part that I helped solve problems for. But I've seen colleagues go the opposite route.
When criticized by people outside the field the reaction seems to be either to ignore or to explain.
Lately I've been watching videos tangential to conspiracies. Too many choose defensiveness when the truth is easier and more interesting.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=MhkTo9Rk6_4 https://youtu.be/RJTbcfHY3AU
Lately I've been watching videos tangential to conspiracies. Too many choose defensiveness when the truth is easier and more interesting.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=MhkTo9Rk6_4 https://youtu.be/RJTbcfHY3AU
No, I don't think this is engineer brain. That's something more neutral, more similar to a hacker mentality, IMO.
This is wealth brain.
> A lifetime of bending your brain in one direction, being well compensated, being told you are smart... it leads to tremendous gaffs once you step out of your little specialized world.
That's not explained by simple engineer brain, plenty of us engineers are not in this position. But those who are wildly, exceptionally successful under capitalism, get their ideas (good and bad) reinforced more and more. They look at their success - money, power, fame, influence, and believe it is due to the correctness of their ideas, not due to the exact stupidity of humans they look down upon.
This is wealth brain.
> A lifetime of bending your brain in one direction, being well compensated, being told you are smart... it leads to tremendous gaffs once you step out of your little specialized world.
That's not explained by simple engineer brain, plenty of us engineers are not in this position. But those who are wildly, exceptionally successful under capitalism, get their ideas (good and bad) reinforced more and more. They look at their success - money, power, fame, influence, and believe it is due to the correctness of their ideas, not due to the exact stupidity of humans they look down upon.
I agree completely that wealth plays a critical role, if not the most critical role, in all of this. Especially at the higher end with Balaji and all the other would be tech John Galts.
I have just observed that the threshold is low enough that many middle-class engineers achieve it (I've always lived in low cost of living areas where engineers get to live pretty comfortable lives relative to their surroundings. But that's just my one data point). Their folly tends to be more banal, like ordering Ivermectin from Mexican pharmacies or endlessly talking about nuclear power in a near utopian fashion. Admittedly, pretty harmless stuff compared to the article.
I have just observed that the threshold is low enough that many middle-class engineers achieve it (I've always lived in low cost of living areas where engineers get to live pretty comfortable lives relative to their surroundings. But that's just my one data point). Their folly tends to be more banal, like ordering Ivermectin from Mexican pharmacies or endlessly talking about nuclear power in a near utopian fashion. Admittedly, pretty harmless stuff compared to the article.
I think it could easily be both. A lot of people who fall into this trap aren't all that wealthy. Certainly not to the degree of being isolated from society unless they choose to be.
It's a different form of rationality, one that is self-referential. They understand the Internet as a medium for discourse, where the audience is extremely large but the number of other memes competing for attention is also very large. They also understand that the more outrageous and anger-provoking a statement is, the more likely it is to go viral. Therefore, the way to ensure that your statements actually have an impact is to hype them up to the most provocative, outrageous form that you can, see who bites, piss people off, and get them talking.
We're discussing this article, after all, right? We know who Balaji is. While look at how many very rational "Show HN" posts here fail to get traction or reach the front page.
Oftentimes, there's a kernel of a true idea behind the hype, but it's been taken to the most extreme form possible simply because the most extreme form is the only one that goes viral.
We're discussing this article, after all, right? We know who Balaji is. While look at how many very rational "Show HN" posts here fail to get traction or reach the front page.
Oftentimes, there's a kernel of a true idea behind the hype, but it's been taken to the most extreme form possible simply because the most extreme form is the only one that goes viral.
> the most extreme form is the only one that goes viral.
Thus social media drives society insane.
Thus social media drives society insane.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc
This video will make you angry is correct yet again.
This video will make you angry is correct yet again.
But they are doing just fine. Only those of us who see this as the insanity that it is, are falling down.
What mechanisms can fix this?
What mechanisms can fix this?
> These are clearly people with high IQs and active imaginations.
I only see evidence of wealth. Not talent, skill or ability.
I only see evidence of wealth. Not talent, skill or ability.
To those unfamiliar with Noah Smith, he is a leftist and very, very blue.
Noah is only a leftist if anyone to the left of Attila the Hun is a leftist. Noah is very much a neoliberal.
Leftist simply means someone on the left side of the political spectrum, despite attempts to gatekeep the term as something more specific.
adding to this:
From the wikipeida: Smith has appeared on the Neoliberal Project's podcast multiple times[21] and was labeled the "Chief Neoliberal Shill" by the group in 201
And to be completely clear, noeliberalism and leftism are NOT one and the same. Leftism is defined by a goal of communism or socialism. "Smith has expressed disagreements with socialism and communism". Calling Noah (Or Biden, Or most mainstream democrat politicians) leftist is totally incorrect and one of my pet peeves that online commenters tend to do.
From the wikipeida: Smith has appeared on the Neoliberal Project's podcast multiple times[21] and was labeled the "Chief Neoliberal Shill" by the group in 201
And to be completely clear, noeliberalism and leftism are NOT one and the same. Leftism is defined by a goal of communism or socialism. "Smith has expressed disagreements with socialism and communism". Calling Noah (Or Biden, Or most mainstream democrat politicians) leftist is totally incorrect and one of my pet peeves that online commenters tend to do.
> Leftism is defined by a goal of communism or socialism.
Not necessarily true, see: anarchism. There are certainly anarcho-communists, but not every anarchist is a communist.
Not necessarily true, see: anarchism. There are certainly anarcho-communists, but not every anarchist is a communist.
"Leftism is defined by a goal of communism or socialism"—but that is just communism. No other ideology seeks communism as a goal, and socialism is just a stepping stone to communism, or at least that is what they taught me in my Soviet high school.
> or at least that is what they taught me in my Soviet high school.
You ever stop and think that the authoritarians may have been lying to you?
You ever stop and think that the authoritarians may have been lying to you?
Lenin more or less defined "socialism" to mean that
Of course, that is how I knew the communists wrote those books.
> "Leftism is defined by a goal of communism or socialism"—but that is just communism. No other ideology seeks communism as a goal, and socialism is just a stepping stone to communism, or at least that is what they taught me in my Soviet high school.
Outside of communist thought (wherein socialism is a stage on the route to communism—and the only concrete stage to which there is a roadmap in most communist thought, though different schools of communism have different maps), socialism is a thing sought in its own right by socialists who are not communists.
Obviously, its unsurprising that a Soviet high school would only teach the dogma of the particular brand of communism then currently held to be orthodox in the USSR, but that's a rather limited view.
Outside of communist thought (wherein socialism is a stage on the route to communism—and the only concrete stage to which there is a roadmap in most communist thought, though different schools of communism have different maps), socialism is a thing sought in its own right by socialists who are not communists.
Obviously, its unsurprising that a Soviet high school would only teach the dogma of the particular brand of communism then currently held to be orthodox in the USSR, but that's a rather limited view.
Yeah, imo communism is a subset of leftism, which includes other ideas all of which are defined by a general opposition to global free market capitalism.
I'm sure there's better definitions too, but neoliberals are not a leftist in any of them.
I'm sure there's better definitions too, but neoliberals are not a leftist in any of them.
But you defined leftism as a subset of communism. Not the other way around
I've tried to describe it as a general opposition to current laissez-faire capitalism, if it came out differently I'm sorry
It could come from the misunderstanding that Communism is the only alternative to global capitalism, which isn't the case.
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I've genuinely never understood a single thing he's talked about ever. I remember he was on Sam Harris' podcast talking about his ideas and none of it made sense to me at all. I don't think I'll get a response, but I'll try anyway. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
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Concerning considering the amount of tech douche's who worship at the feet of 'Balaji'.
Ironic since Balaji is name of a god in India
Maybe Balaji and Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh would be in good company.