Spotify Car Thing will be discontinued(support.spotify.com)
support.spotify.com
Spotify Car Thing will be discontinued
https://support.spotify.com/us/article/car-thing-discontinued/
239 comments
I firmly believe that permanent key fusing to lock bootloaders should be outlawed. At the very least the keys (and schematics) should be released once the device reaches EOL.
Otherwise we're just manufacturing e-waste.
Otherwise we're just manufacturing e-waste.
Agreed. We really need some sort of regulation that prevents companies from bricking devices they sold. It's just so unethical, and wasteful, to put these devices out there and then just turn them into trash.
It should be required from day one. This tying of specific user-environment software to hardware is a straightforward antitrust issue, and frankly should never have been allowed to fester as long as it has.
The industry should be made to move to security models that don't revolve around baking in manufacturer-privileged keys (verification or attestation). Internal groups developing any default user-environment software should have to stay at an arms length from the hardware team, and only be using published documentation.
The industry should be made to move to security models that don't revolve around baking in manufacturer-privileged keys (verification or attestation). Internal groups developing any default user-environment software should have to stay at an arms length from the hardware team, and only be using published documentation.
Or just stop this nonsense of needing updates to keep things working, which then allows updates that break things.
Have proper standards how music is transmitted. Have devices support those standards. Have those standards be long-running.
Have proper standards how music is transmitted. Have devices support those standards. Have those standards be long-running.
Any connected device NEEDS continual updates in order to continue to be secure.
This is particularly true of internet connected devices, but is also true for IOT devices that only connect to the internet indirectly. Security holes get found, if you can't patch and update devices in the field then you are leaving your customers unprotected.
This is particularly true of internet connected devices, but is also true for IOT devices that only connect to the internet indirectly. Security holes get found, if you can't patch and update devices in the field then you are leaving your customers unprotected.
> Any connected device NEEDS continual updates in order to continue to be secure.
And I feel that updates are being abused too much by device makers now:
-allows making devices worse, say "optimizing" the UI e.g. to make you spend more time in the parts they (not necessarily the user) want you to see
-allows releasing half-finished games since they can just be updated later anyway
-allows breaking old functionality for whatever reason
-allows the device makers to choose when to do the update rather than the user, say just when you want to start playing a game
It's a shame there's no less invasive way to ensure devices are secure. It sure is convenient for the device makers that the solution to security also gives them continuous control over your device's features and when you can actually use it
And I feel that updates are being abused too much by device makers now:
-allows making devices worse, say "optimizing" the UI e.g. to make you spend more time in the parts they (not necessarily the user) want you to see
-allows releasing half-finished games since they can just be updated later anyway
-allows breaking old functionality for whatever reason
-allows the device makers to choose when to do the update rather than the user, say just when you want to start playing a game
It's a shame there's no less invasive way to ensure devices are secure. It sure is convenient for the device makers that the solution to security also gives them continuous control over your device's features and when you can actually use it
There is security and there is cargo cult. "unprotected" really depends on what the user is using the device for, what the vulnerabilities are, and what's the worst thing someone with total root level access to the device can actually do.
If the device is using a read-only firmware, has a secure boot chain of trust, lives behind a firewall and only makes outgoing connections, the risk is very limited. You can't directly connect to it, so your only option is to tamper with traffic in transit and exploit some buffer overflow in how it parses replies to its requests - that's already a very targeted attack that's really hard to scale, and with an intact secure/trusted boot chain it still means you can't persist so you'd need to redo this every time the device is rebooted.
And finally, assuming you manage to do all the above, what't the payoff? For a "Car Thing", the payoff is quite limited. I guess you can blast obnoxious music at full volume against the user's wishes?
If the device is using a read-only firmware, has a secure boot chain of trust, lives behind a firewall and only makes outgoing connections, the risk is very limited. You can't directly connect to it, so your only option is to tamper with traffic in transit and exploit some buffer overflow in how it parses replies to its requests - that's already a very targeted attack that's really hard to scale, and with an intact secure/trusted boot chain it still means you can't persist so you'd need to redo this every time the device is rebooted.
And finally, assuming you manage to do all the above, what't the payoff? For a "Car Thing", the payoff is quite limited. I guess you can blast obnoxious music at full volume against the user's wishes?
It's not just security, but simple functionality too. Connected devices rely on remote services, by definition. Those services' APIs will change and get deprecated over time. At the very least, you need to keep clients up-to-date to conform to those API changes.
I would argue that connected devices should only rely on your services - otherwise how do you know that they're not going away?
And if they're your services then you can maintain their stability.
And if they're your services then you can maintain their stability.
"Your services" aren't entirely yours. Practically speaking, no one builds systems entirely from scratch. A service likely has remote dependencies too, some of which will trickle down to the clients of your service. For Spotify specifically, they rely on SSO providers and third-party payments services; if those APIs change, then the client will likely require updates even though Spotify didn't change anything in their own core functionality.
I have never updated my ethernet switches. Ever.
Doesn't sound like its an update that bricks them, thought the article is a bit confusing on that point. Sounds to me like they broke the API (or just blocked this particular User-Agent)
Situation: there are now 15 competing music streaming standards.
FM and AM were only 2 and were long running
EU legislation on power chords gave us micro-USB phones, when USB-C could have been a better option, but a real solution would be let consumers decide inputs/outputs.
Micro-USB was legislated years ago when each phone had a different charger plug. Currently the standard is USB-C. I also suspect that the EU only mandates a charging & plug standard but it's up to the industry to choose one.
A regulation requiring companies to "let consumers decide inputs/outputs" would be much more burdensome than merely standardizing one specific connector per ~decade. With the compactness of modern devices, they'd basically have to spin a new board for every connector type a consumer might what. But you're right - it would be kind of neat if I could have Google make me a new Pixel 8 with the bespoke data connector from my old SPH-A580, so I'd finally once again have a use for that cable that's just sitting around in a box. This is what you meant, right?
Yup, or alternately mandate a standard and incorporate the charging port into an open-source case, or some such.
> EU legislation on power chords
Regular major and minor chords were unaffected though :)
(I actually started reading this comment as a pun, as in "The EU can regulate music streaming - they already regulated power chords", and that made me smile)
Regular major and minor chords were unaffected though :)
(I actually started reading this comment as a pun, as in "The EU can regulate music streaming - they already regulated power chords", and that made me smile)
I thought the same thing and was going to reply before I saw your comment. I wonder if there’s a term for typos/mis-spellings that form an unintended word or phrase that still makes sense for that particular context.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_chord
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_chord
Whatever it is, it needs to be a pun on "oak trees", because they're _eggcorns_ that grew up.
This is a fascinating misunderstanding of history. Were you not around when phones all had unique, non USB charging cables? It was a nightmare trying to charge a phone or device if you forgot your charger.
The EU legislation will require USB-C, not micro USB
> but a real solution would be let consumers decide inputs/outputs.
When trillion-dollar companies consider a serial connector to be a proprietary and DRM-enabled apparatus I think the "real solution" is precluded by entirely unnecessary corporate greed.
When trillion-dollar companies consider a serial connector to be a proprietary and DRM-enabled apparatus I think the "real solution" is precluded by entirely unnecessary corporate greed.
Realistically how many people are going to bother reflashing their devices? This case is exceptional because it was EOLed so early, but for the typical phone that reaches EOL in 2 years I doubt more than 1% of people are going to make use of this ability.
It's a chicken and egg problem. There isn't much firmware being developed for these devices because there is no easy path for users to install them.
If installing alternative/third-party firmware becomes easy and normalized, there will also be more options to choose from, because it will actually become worthwhile for people/companies to develop said firmware.
If installing alternative/third-party firmware becomes easy and normalized, there will also be more options to choose from, because it will actually become worthwhile for people/companies to develop said firmware.
I think if the process was made easy, it would save quite a bit more than 1% of these devices from the landfill, assuming you have enough power users to build a community. Plenty of people flash their chromebooks to MrChromebox UEFI to give them a new life, because it's easy enough for mere mortals, and because Google doesn't lock them down.
I believe if given the tools, people would gladly donate their time to make something fun with it. Heck, that's what I do in my spare time. But it's impossible if everything is completely locked down, as if a music streaming box contains nuclear launch codes that must be protected at all costs.
I believe if given the tools, people would gladly donate their time to make something fun with it. Heck, that's what I do in my spare time. But it's impossible if everything is completely locked down, as if a music streaming box contains nuclear launch codes that must be protected at all costs.
People? Not that many. Companies? quite a few.
If you have an easy way to flash any phone and plenty of firmware available, it makes sense to turn flashing into a business. Buy used phones off people who don't need them any more, reflash them with a newer and debloated Android, and then sell them off for more than you got them for.
This would very quickly lead to abuses though. If PC OEMs are bad, imagine what a small mom-and-pop shop, subject to a lot less scrutiny and having much less respect for the law could do.
If you have an easy way to flash any phone and plenty of firmware available, it makes sense to turn flashing into a business. Buy used phones off people who don't need them any more, reflash them with a newer and debloated Android, and then sell them off for more than you got them for.
This would very quickly lead to abuses though. If PC OEMs are bad, imagine what a small mom-and-pop shop, subject to a lot less scrutiny and having much less respect for the law could do.
You are saying you can reduce e waste by whole integer percent with a simple bit of legislation? That's a clear win.
>You are saying you can reduce e waste by whole integer percent with a simple bit of legislation?
Well no, because not all e-waste are devices that you can conceivably reflash. For instance a monitor equals at least 10 phones in terms of e-waste volume, but I doubt legislation like this is going to make a dent in monitor e-waste. The proposal only realistically makes a difference for computing devices with short EOL periods and locked bootloaders, so basically phones and tablets.
Well no, because not all e-waste are devices that you can conceivably reflash. For instance a monitor equals at least 10 phones in terms of e-waste volume, but I doubt legislation like this is going to make a dent in monitor e-waste. The proposal only realistically makes a difference for computing devices with short EOL periods and locked bootloaders, so basically phones and tablets.
If anybody at Spotify with the influence to make it happen is reading this: please publish an open source firmware loader (or specs to build one, or similar) to allow community driven projects to be developed on this hardware. You'd gain a lot of good will by doing this.
Seems maybe its already been hacked: https://www.xda-developers.com/spotify-car-thing-root/
I bought one of these for $25 back then hoping someone would create something sweet with it. Well its still in the box, no cool hacks had been released last time I checked. I believe the thing barely has any ram.
some subreddits to monitor:
https://www.reddit.com/r/carthinghax/
https://www.reddit.com/r/SpotifyCarThingJBreak/
some subreddits to monitor:
https://www.reddit.com/r/carthinghax/
https://www.reddit.com/r/SpotifyCarThingJBreak/
If anyone at Spotify is reading this, I just cancelled my account. You guys deserve considerably less money than you have now, but this is the best I can do.
"I am very tough"
It's not a great move, but I don't think it calls for wishing harm on anyone, let alone a majority of people who at most had a hand in making something you did feel was useful enough to pay for.
It was possible to drive in silence before and it's possible now. Perhaps explore a radio station.
It's not a great move, but I don't think it calls for wishing harm on anyone, let alone a majority of people who at most had a hand in making something you did feel was useful enough to pay for.
It was possible to drive in silence before and it's possible now. Perhaps explore a radio station.
Don't denigrate him, he's done the one thing that is simultaneously most likely to affect change at a company, and also the hardest thing for an individual to do: vote with their wallet. He's right, Spotify does deserve less money for their godawful decent into the lower rungs of mediocrity.
Meh, when I boycott a place I just revoke my money and/or review the place accurately, but I don't posture about it. When I get bad food at a restaurant, I might mention it if it's really rough and ask for something different, but I'm not going to berate the server or kitchen staff; unimaginable. People have enough shit to deal with, like fearing impending layoffs and the likelihood that because the product didn't bring in enough money, they'll be out of a job for god knows how long if they don't turn things around.
I have personal grievances with my iPad, but I'm not about to say "If anyone at Apple is listening, I hope you do worse financially".
I presume they were a bit upset and chose overly broad language, it's not a big deal either way, I don't believe they truly wanted harm on anyone, it just seemed like a silly tone to choose.
I have personal grievances with my iPad, but I'm not about to say "If anyone at Apple is listening, I hope you do worse financially".
I presume they were a bit upset and chose overly broad language, it's not a big deal either way, I don't believe they truly wanted harm on anyone, it just seemed like a silly tone to choose.
> I'm not going to berate the server or kitchen staff; unimaginable.
Who is advocating berating staff? I don't see that in OPs post, nor my own. No one suggests being aggressive towards anyone. Saying the company deserves less money is a capitalistic statement aimed at the corporation, not its diligent employees. You're welcome to to silently withdraw your money from a place of business and leave them with no feedback as to why. But 'posturing' about the reasons of a boycott while also withdrawing money is a great way to attach feedback to an action the company might actually listen to.
Who is advocating berating staff? I don't see that in OPs post, nor my own. No one suggests being aggressive towards anyone. Saying the company deserves less money is a capitalistic statement aimed at the corporation, not its diligent employees. You're welcome to to silently withdraw your money from a place of business and leave them with no feedback as to why. But 'posturing' about the reasons of a boycott while also withdrawing money is a great way to attach feedback to an action the company might actually listen to.
There are engineers at Spotify who read Hacker News. They've noticed the threads. Maybe there's one reading at this very minute. Create a burner and speak your mind, comrade.
Here's hoping, but my inner cynic says it's unlikely since it doesn't do anything for those quarterly numbers.
However, I am curious what could be done with the stock OS... This repo here seems to suggest that the UI on the CarThing is just a webapp: https://github.com/williamtcastro/carthing-non-premium-spoti...
If we could take this and rip out the existing frontend, I wonder if we could turn it into a Chumby-like device at the very least. Though I suppose the tricky bit is to enable the bluetooth connection for any kind of network data transfer...
However, I am curious what could be done with the stock OS... This repo here seems to suggest that the UI on the CarThing is just a webapp: https://github.com/williamtcastro/carthing-non-premium-spoti...
If we could take this and rip out the existing frontend, I wonder if we could turn it into a Chumby-like device at the very least. Though I suppose the tricky bit is to enable the bluetooth connection for any kind of network data transfer...
Absolutely! It's nice hardware, and it will be sad if they all just end up in the landfill
I think they probably fired anybody at Spotify with influence in the relevant teams in their Christmas cull. Which is probably why they are discontinuing it, because there is no one left who knows how it works.
Seconded! This is a huge opportunity to avoid unnecessary waste in the landfill.
They'll be extra cheap on ebay for a while. I see a few for US$20.
> What should I do with the device?
> We recommend resetting your Car Thing to factory settings and safely disposing of your device following local electronic waste guidelines.
It's not everyday that the manufacturer of a working product tells you "throw it in the trash". I wish someone would force them to make a recall instead.
> We recommend resetting your Car Thing to factory settings and safely disposing of your device following local electronic waste guidelines.
It's not everyday that the manufacturer of a working product tells you "throw it in the trash". I wish someone would force them to make a recall instead.
Taking the piss, people paid $80 for these only 2 years ago. Make the waste of a PM that decided "it no longer aligned with the Spotify vision" tour the globe to personally pick up these things and hand people back their money.
You think a PM made this decision? Not at least someone at a VP or higher level?
Exactly, PM's kill features but they don't kill products.
This is a decision by the person who hires the PM. This is a VP/director-level decision.
This is a decision by the person who hires the PM. This is a VP/director-level decision.
> I wish someone would force them to make a recall instead.
It seems that they are refunding anyone who asks.
https://old.reddit.com/r/carthinghax/comments/1d0ida1/just_g...
It seems that they are refunding anyone who asks.
https://old.reddit.com/r/carthinghax/comments/1d0ida1/just_g...
That is ridiculous. At least they're not forcing people to throw away batteries.
It would be easy to flip a couple GitHub repos to "public" and call it a day.
It would be easy to wipe proprietary IP from the latest version, shove whatever's left in a ZIP file, and upload it somewhere online.
It would be easy to do literally nothing except publish instructions on how to wipe the flash. That alone would be enough to allow some clever people online to get a normal Android installation onto these things.
Somehow, all of these options are too much for Spotify to stomach. Shameful.
Honestly, I forgot Car Thing even existed. I hardly remembered it at all. Given how my car is over 20 years old and I make extensive use of Spotify while driving, I imagine I was probably the target audience for Car Thing. Makes me wonder if Car Thing's biggest problem was marketing.
It would be easy to wipe proprietary IP from the latest version, shove whatever's left in a ZIP file, and upload it somewhere online.
It would be easy to do literally nothing except publish instructions on how to wipe the flash. That alone would be enough to allow some clever people online to get a normal Android installation onto these things.
Somehow, all of these options are too much for Spotify to stomach. Shameful.
Honestly, I forgot Car Thing even existed. I hardly remembered it at all. Given how my car is over 20 years old and I make extensive use of Spotify while driving, I imagine I was probably the target audience for Car Thing. Makes me wonder if Car Thing's biggest problem was marketing.
I had just remembered it existed recently, glad I didn't look into getting one. My assumption was that it had lost support but would work indefinitely, how naive of me.
It's a nice well-built device, running Android and a stripped-down Chromium Engine to render the Spotify webapp.
Which makes it even more puzzling that they can't keep it running...
Which makes it even more puzzling that they can't keep it running...
This happened a few times at Meta (remember the Portal?!). I think leadership just wants a clean break and doesn't want any support calls, liability, brand relationship to the device, etc etc
If they don't want support calls, liability, or brand association, then they shouldn't have made the fucking product in the first place! I know this is HN and I'm preaching to the choir, but it's infuriating.
Spotify stopped making Car Thing around July 2022 [0] But the device has also been jailbroken for a couple of years now [1] It even runs Debian [2]
[0] https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/27/23280357/spotify-stops-ma...
[1] https://github.com/err4o4/spotify-car-thing-reverse-engineer...
[2] https://github.com/bishopdynamics/superbird-debian-kiosk
[0] https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/27/23280357/spotify-stops-ma...
[1] https://github.com/err4o4/spotify-car-thing-reverse-engineer...
[2] https://github.com/bishopdynamics/superbird-debian-kiosk
Spotify only offers chat support via its website. Attempts to receive a refund have been met with request for customer location and receipt. Support mentions the backend team will reach out by email, "after a few hours." No followup has been sent after 24 hours and requests for update.
As a decade-long Spotify premium user, I am disappointed by this poor experience and wastefulness. Over the course of using their product, there have been few new, impactful features. I do not believe the company can offer a compelling service at their pricepoint and will seek alternatives.
As a decade-long Spotify premium user, I am disappointed by this poor experience and wastefulness. Over the course of using their product, there have been few new, impactful features. I do not believe the company can offer a compelling service at their pricepoint and will seek alternatives.
> Over the course of using their product, there have been few new, impactful features.
What new features do you want for a music player? Better audio quality? More discovery features? Lower memory usage? More responsive UI?
What new features do you want for a music player? Better audio quality? More discovery features? Lower memory usage? More responsive UI?
- Reliability: Spotify’s IOS and Mac apps regularly refuse to play and require killing and restarting. If you’re in the car, several times. Similar issues with bluetooth speakers. When browser or Youtube app happily play, Spotify struggles.
- Improved UX: Still can’t filter for unheard episodes of a podcast. Not sure why the repeat button has no tooltip and has to be so cryptic. One tap repeats the (imaginary?) playlist and 2 taps repeats the song? Who knows? Why can’t I see a stream of the songs I played so I can easily find what I recently played and play it again? No, recently played albums/radios don’t help. How do I search for business podcasts that aren’t from my country? Why does the shuffle of an album start playing random other artists? Well, actually I know, those artists are cheaper to play.
- Proper Listings: Bo Burnham’s Make Happy isn’t a podcast and those are not 3 minute long podcast episodes. Hitting next must go to the next track and start from the beginning, NOT from minute 4.
It’s unbelievable that in the last 10 years the only positive change was the podcast UI and addition of podcasts with videos etc. At the expense of app reliability. And how hard is it to allow me to find business podcasts from US? (Yes, I am hung up on it after Google decided to kill the Podcasts app) Or at least sort by globally most listened?
Actually, happy with the car thing dying. Maybe they will pull the super obstructive car UI from the app. It comes back from time to time even though it’s turned off and it’s a major safety risk, despite trying the opposite.
- Improved UX: Still can’t filter for unheard episodes of a podcast. Not sure why the repeat button has no tooltip and has to be so cryptic. One tap repeats the (imaginary?) playlist and 2 taps repeats the song? Who knows? Why can’t I see a stream of the songs I played so I can easily find what I recently played and play it again? No, recently played albums/radios don’t help. How do I search for business podcasts that aren’t from my country? Why does the shuffle of an album start playing random other artists? Well, actually I know, those artists are cheaper to play.
- Proper Listings: Bo Burnham’s Make Happy isn’t a podcast and those are not 3 minute long podcast episodes. Hitting next must go to the next track and start from the beginning, NOT from minute 4.
It’s unbelievable that in the last 10 years the only positive change was the podcast UI and addition of podcasts with videos etc. At the expense of app reliability. And how hard is it to allow me to find business podcasts from US? (Yes, I am hung up on it after Google decided to kill the Podcasts app) Or at least sort by globally most listened?
Actually, happy with the car thing dying. Maybe they will pull the super obstructive car UI from the app. It comes back from time to time even though it’s turned off and it’s a major safety risk, despite trying the opposite.
It's so ridiculous we can't see a history of songs played. I've been complaining about Spotify's lack of UX improvement for years.
Managing or finding playlists on mobile is a nightmare. There's no organization or folders on mobile (despite being on desktop). Searches are always sluggish, even when searching downloaded songs or playlists.
Managing or finding playlists on mobile is a nightmare. There's no organization or folders on mobile (despite being on desktop). Searches are always sluggish, even when searching downloaded songs or playlists.
While the UI is not my favorite, I can see a history of my songs played. On android, click on home, click your avatar (top left). A menu should slide out with "Listening history" in it.
Oh my gosh... well... thanks for that. I've been wanting that feature for many years.
That is bizarre UI/UX. I should just be able to scroll up when viewing my play queue or have a button directly on that page to see the history.
That is bizarre UI/UX. I should just be able to scroll up when viewing my play queue or have a button directly on that page to see the history.
I agree with basically everything you said. But funnily, this feature:
> Why can’t I see a stream of the songs I played so I can easily find what I recently played and play it again?
is available on their Linux client which isn't even officially supported. (It's in the play queue screen.)
> Why can’t I see a stream of the songs I played so I can easily find what I recently played and play it again?
is available on their Linux client which isn't even officially supported. (It's in the play queue screen.)
> What new features do you want for a music player? Better audio quality? More discovery features? Lower memory usage? More responsive UI?
You just perfectly highlighted the business mindset that never fixes a goddamn thing they rushed out.
You just perfectly highlighted the business mindset that never fixes a goddamn thing they rushed out.
I can think of ten thousand things I'd like the Spotify player to do.
- First of all, stop changing the layout every goddamn day
- Stop pushing podcasts
- Better 'ignore' functionality so I can listen to something without it influencing my recommendations. I know Private Mode exists but it's clumsy and all-or-nothing. I want it to be more granular and available on an as-needed basis.
- Support for player cursors, which is like 'queue', but with the ability to tell Spotify to 'resume playing from this point in the playlist'. Maybe even expand this, and add multiple simultaneous cursor support, allowing for on-demand blackout zones or something.
- Bring back the 30 second press-to-hold song preview. Removing this feature was a crime. "low usage" my ass, so what? Keep it in, you scoundrels, even the SDK still supports it.
- Support for song start/end offsets. This is the #1 most requested feature on their feedback forums, has been open for 10 years, and they only ever occasionally chime in to say "we hear you, but not right now". If the issue is legal, just say so and stop leading us all on.
- Allow me to re-order my Liked Songs.
- Do what Apple Music did and require artists upload lyrics. Partnering with Genius was a dumb move. Genius is inconsistently available, and more often than not, just straight up incorrect.
There are so many more. Their UI is just barely on the right side of acceptable and not one inch further than that. I stay on Spotify because their music discovery is really excellent, I look forward to the new recommendations from Discover Weekly and Release Radar, and I think the Spotify Wrapped is a lot of fun every year. But as a music player, it is deficient to the highest degree.
- First of all, stop changing the layout every goddamn day
- Stop pushing podcasts
- Better 'ignore' functionality so I can listen to something without it influencing my recommendations. I know Private Mode exists but it's clumsy and all-or-nothing. I want it to be more granular and available on an as-needed basis.
- Support for player cursors, which is like 'queue', but with the ability to tell Spotify to 'resume playing from this point in the playlist'. Maybe even expand this, and add multiple simultaneous cursor support, allowing for on-demand blackout zones or something.
- Bring back the 30 second press-to-hold song preview. Removing this feature was a crime. "low usage" my ass, so what? Keep it in, you scoundrels, even the SDK still supports it.
- Support for song start/end offsets. This is the #1 most requested feature on their feedback forums, has been open for 10 years, and they only ever occasionally chime in to say "we hear you, but not right now". If the issue is legal, just say so and stop leading us all on.
- Allow me to re-order my Liked Songs.
- Do what Apple Music did and require artists upload lyrics. Partnering with Genius was a dumb move. Genius is inconsistently available, and more often than not, just straight up incorrect.
There are so many more. Their UI is just barely on the right side of acceptable and not one inch further than that. I stay on Spotify because their music discovery is really excellent, I look forward to the new recommendations from Discover Weekly and Release Radar, and I think the Spotify Wrapped is a lot of fun every year. But as a music player, it is deficient to the highest degree.
Apple Music does not require artists to upload lyrics, it’s optional. They just make it easier than Spotify where you need to submit through Musixmatch.
> What new features do you want for a music player?
I want playlist folders (which do exist) to be playable in their entirety, or just the sub-list. I want to be able to turn an existing playlist into the top-level one, i.e. categorise within it. I want to find songs I've liked that are not in any playlist. In short: playlist management.
You asked for 'new features', but mainly I want the bugs fixed, and they're not doing that either. (I'm sure they must be, but obviously I mean the visible bugs that prominently affect me.)
I want playlist folders (which do exist) to be playable in their entirety, or just the sub-list. I want to be able to turn an existing playlist into the top-level one, i.e. categorise within it. I want to find songs I've liked that are not in any playlist. In short: playlist management.
You asked for 'new features', but mainly I want the bugs fixed, and they're not doing that either. (I'm sure they must be, but obviously I mean the visible bugs that prominently affect me.)
I find Spotify's library system deeply lacking. The only update I have seen is they changed like/dislike songs to 'hearting' songs - and they removed the default view from 'Custom Order' playlists to 'Recently Listened.'
I want control over how my library is organized and made accessible to me. Any basic library system would allow me to tag music and create ways of organizing music in a way that works for me.
For example, I can't view a catalogue of my downloaded songs - only albums and playlists.
What if I could explore music by entering a mode to listen to music as if I were at the time I was in college, considering what I was listening to then?
What if I want to listen to the music I've listened to the most- view the stats of what I listen to, like last.fm's scrobbling?
Why hasn't there been a music video made available in Spotify?
Why isn't there a way for Artists to interact with fans in a meaningful way beyond promotions? Why is there still a barrier to entry for Artists to make their music accessible to an audience- they still have to go through an costly, label-esque intermediary. Why haven't they attracted the DIY scene of bandcamp and built better goodwill?
Further, Spotify's playlist/song centric model promotes only listening to a small number of songs from a large number of artists. I wish they invested in allowing for listeners to discover music in different modalities- like enabling someone who wants to seek out and listen to a whole new album.
A common take, but their recommendations are tired and often just songs I already listen to. Why must their recommendation also be kept behind small sample sizes like the 'Discover Weekly?' Why can't I query/paginate through recommendations- such as viewing artists I might like if I like these sets of artists?
My really only options for discovery are finding music on a lucky chance on a radio- or actively clicking through "Related Artists." - or more likely, not on Spotify.
Further, I cannot get Spotify to understand that I have multiple listening profiles. I sometimes want to listen to jazz or post-rock for background music. In terms of music discovery- I want to find more in my preferred genres, and not have lofi-hip-hop interrupt my listening session. This has never been possible.
They used to support native app integrations- the only way you could use a music visualizer- not anymore.
New features I can think of- there's been the recent DJ- which is a worse version than an app that predated it, Radiant- which is more creative and does a better job at blending AI by taking the form of a robotic person who can provide weather updates.
To then hear that they are investing on building B2B software with commercializing Backstage is concerning. It further hurts their ethos to learn that they are pushing 'Ghost' artists to avoid paying royalties to deserving artists.
I want control over how my library is organized and made accessible to me. Any basic library system would allow me to tag music and create ways of organizing music in a way that works for me.
For example, I can't view a catalogue of my downloaded songs - only albums and playlists.
What if I could explore music by entering a mode to listen to music as if I were at the time I was in college, considering what I was listening to then?
What if I want to listen to the music I've listened to the most- view the stats of what I listen to, like last.fm's scrobbling?
Why hasn't there been a music video made available in Spotify?
Why isn't there a way for Artists to interact with fans in a meaningful way beyond promotions? Why is there still a barrier to entry for Artists to make their music accessible to an audience- they still have to go through an costly, label-esque intermediary. Why haven't they attracted the DIY scene of bandcamp and built better goodwill?
Further, Spotify's playlist/song centric model promotes only listening to a small number of songs from a large number of artists. I wish they invested in allowing for listeners to discover music in different modalities- like enabling someone who wants to seek out and listen to a whole new album.
A common take, but their recommendations are tired and often just songs I already listen to. Why must their recommendation also be kept behind small sample sizes like the 'Discover Weekly?' Why can't I query/paginate through recommendations- such as viewing artists I might like if I like these sets of artists?
My really only options for discovery are finding music on a lucky chance on a radio- or actively clicking through "Related Artists." - or more likely, not on Spotify.
Further, I cannot get Spotify to understand that I have multiple listening profiles. I sometimes want to listen to jazz or post-rock for background music. In terms of music discovery- I want to find more in my preferred genres, and not have lofi-hip-hop interrupt my listening session. This has never been possible.
They used to support native app integrations- the only way you could use a music visualizer- not anymore.
New features I can think of- there's been the recent DJ- which is a worse version than an app that predated it, Radiant- which is more creative and does a better job at blending AI by taking the form of a robotic person who can provide weather updates.
To then hear that they are investing on building B2B software with commercializing Backstage is concerning. It further hurts their ethos to learn that they are pushing 'Ghost' artists to avoid paying royalties to deserving artists.
better ux for listening in groups
I was suspicious when they advertised on sale for $30 last year. Maybe Lina Khan will peruse the emails that lead to that clearance.
Though it's no surprise Spotify failed at hardware given their general software competency. Broke the Chromecast app for years after the big mobile redesign. Not sure how it's possible to have such bugs in an app that shows three buttons, a progress bar, and a picture, but 2,000 engineers will find a way. Liked page on the phone app doesn't even load with bad service, which is like your umbrella not opening in the rain.
Anyone know of alternatives, even alternative clients?
Though it's no surprise Spotify failed at hardware given their general software competency. Broke the Chromecast app for years after the big mobile redesign. Not sure how it's possible to have such bugs in an app that shows three buttons, a progress bar, and a picture, but 2,000 engineers will find a way. Liked page on the phone app doesn't even load with bad service, which is like your umbrella not opening in the rain.
Anyone know of alternatives, even alternative clients?
There are so many examples of this. It's been hard to express and advocate for my severe distrust of proprietary garbage (my choice of words isn't hyperbole in this case) to others around me. But with so much of this race to the bottom, I can't help but wonder: how much will consumers take?
I'll admit, my FOSS prefering, DIY leaning use of tech is tedious, but is it worse than dealing with the churn companies force you (and your wallet) to deal with?
I'll admit, my FOSS prefering, DIY leaning use of tech is tedious, but is it worse than dealing with the churn companies force you (and your wallet) to deal with?
The cassette tape adapter powered by the cigarette lighter is the gold standard of interoperability.
Today, most electronics manufacturers have sold off their operations, so we're left with proprietary pap like CarPlay and Android Auto.
Today, most electronics manufacturers have sold off their operations, so we're left with proprietary pap like CarPlay and Android Auto.
Don’t worry, by breaking your device, we’re allowing us to focus on what we want to do.
Some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make
How can such an expensive thing be deprecrated in two years? It seems malicious. IoT devices need to come with some sort of "works until" or something.
This largely feels like a failure of consumer protection. Perhaps my understanding of the legal situation is wrong but as a UK resident - regardless of additional warranties provided or not provided by the vendor - products should work for a "reasonable" length of time and you are entitled to replacement or refund if they fail.
Obviously I would expect an electronic device like this to last more than 2 years, so if Spotify is going to cause it to stop working then they'd have to refund me. Having to do that for their entire customer base would probably result in some different decision making!
Obviously this product was only sold in the US (AFAIK), which has much less in the way of consumer protection, which allows for this crappy treatment of consumers.
Obviously I would expect an electronic device like this to last more than 2 years, so if Spotify is going to cause it to stop working then they'd have to refund me. Having to do that for their entire customer base would probably result in some different decision making!
Obviously this product was only sold in the US (AFAIK), which has much less in the way of consumer protection, which allows for this crappy treatment of consumers.
I've really enjoyed using the Car Thing in my 14 year old Mazda CX9. My car shows no signs of failing, so I don't anticipate replacing it anytime soon for one with Carplay.
The Car Thing is so much more convenient than unlocking iPhone with my face, opening spotify, futzing around on the phone to change songs or playlists or whatever. And its easily accessible to my passenger. Its a far better interface than phone for use in the car! Its one of the main reasons I haven't switched to Apple Music which is bundled with my cell phone plan. I guess Spotify just wants me to got to Apple Music.
The Car Thing is so much more convenient than unlocking iPhone with my face, opening spotify, futzing around on the phone to change songs or playlists or whatever. And its easily accessible to my passenger. Its a far better interface than phone for use in the car! Its one of the main reasons I haven't switched to Apple Music which is bundled with my cell phone plan. I guess Spotify just wants me to got to Apple Music.
You can probably get a really nice wireless CarPlay compatible head unit installed by a local shop for less than $1.5k to $2k.
https://www.crutchfield.com/g_300/All-Car-Stereos.html
https://www.crutchfield.com/g_300/All-Car-Stereos.html
You don't need to spend that much, especially if you DIY the install. I installed a cheap Linux based head unit (ATOTO F7 WE) in my wife's old commuter car last weekend. $180 Canadian for the head unit, $25 for an aftermarket wiring harness adapter. Took a few hours to splice the harness together and install the head unit in the dash.
The head unit's software is definitely a little janky, but it doesn't really matter as all she uses it for is CarPlay anyway. It even supports wireless CarPlay so she doesn't need to take her phone out of her work bag - our brand new Kia with an expensive infotainment system doesn't even support wireless.
The head unit's software is definitely a little janky, but it doesn't really matter as all she uses it for is CarPlay anyway. It even supports wireless CarPlay so she doesn't need to take her phone out of her work bag - our brand new Kia with an expensive infotainment system doesn't even support wireless.
I out one of these ATOTO head units in an old jeep I bought.
It works extremely well.
It works extremely well.
> for less than $1.5k to $2k.
A bargain compared to the Car Thing's ~$90 price tag.
A bargain compared to the Car Thing's ~$90 price tag.
The people who are unhappy about only getting 2 years of service out of an $80 investment are probably not the people who are giddy about only spending $2,000 on a new radio for their car which will be practically worthless once it is installed.
Why would CarPlay/Android auto compatible head unit be worthless once installed? If anything, it adds to the car’s resale price.
Only by a small fraction of the value of the head unit. You would be lucky to get $250 back out of a $2000 head unit.
It's one thing to discontinue selling the product.
It's another to discontinue service (i.e. Music) to the product.
Did the hardware generate a lot of support requests?
Does it require too much engineering to keep secure with updates, etc.?
It's another to discontinue service (i.e. Music) to the product.
Did the hardware generate a lot of support requests?
Does it require too much engineering to keep secure with updates, etc.?
Seriously.
I can't repeat this enough: there needs to be LEGISLATION against this.
If a product needs cloud functionality to operate, there needs to be a legal minimum number of years (5?), and the company should be required to prominently advertise the length of time (so they can compete to guarantee for longer periods of time, like 10 years).
I can't repeat this enough: there needs to be LEGISLATION against this.
If a product needs cloud functionality to operate, there needs to be a legal minimum number of years (5?), and the company should be required to prominently advertise the length of time (so they can compete to guarantee for longer periods of time, like 10 years).
I think the courts are much better suited to resolving this kind of issue, because it's very product and advertising specific. Courts could easily rule that e.g. Spotify breached the covenant of good faith and fair dealing, or possibly civil fraud, or something else, by failing to prominently disclose the minimum number of years / bricking the devices too soon.
A judicial solution would be much more measured and flexible.
Unfortunately, lawyers and courts have a undeservedly bad reputation which is often created by poor legislation which is beset by political motives and disadvantaged by having to draft prospective rules that can apply to a broad set of differing circumstances.
Edit: Why don't court do this more? Often because of terrible, over-reaching legislation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Arbitration_Act
A judicial solution would be much more measured and flexible.
Unfortunately, lawyers and courts have a undeservedly bad reputation which is often created by poor legislation which is beset by political motives and disadvantaged by having to draft prospective rules that can apply to a broad set of differing circumstances.
Edit: Why don't court do this more? Often because of terrible, over-reaching legislation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Arbitration_Act
There is legislation against this in many places. I don't know if this product was offered for sale in New Zealand but if it was Spotify is in violation of the Consumer Guarantees Act and must issue a refund to all customers who request one.
That's like a minimum wage law. The flip side is that companies will be more guarded about releases. Can you live with that?
Absolutely, just like I can live with minimum wage.
And companies can still stop selling the thing. They just need to keep the cloud servers running and maintaining their integrations with the rest of their code.
If maintaining servers for 5 years is the tipping point for them to judge that the product won't be profitable and therefore won't release it, then yeah it doesn't sound like it should be worth selling in the first place.
And companies can still stop selling the thing. They just need to keep the cloud servers running and maintaining their integrations with the rest of their code.
If maintaining servers for 5 years is the tipping point for them to judge that the product won't be profitable and therefore won't release it, then yeah it doesn't sound like it should be worth selling in the first place.
I can live with companies not turning my 2-year-old device into a doorstop, yeah.
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Minimum wage laws work great. I live in the country with the highest minimum wage in the world, every country should be like this.
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Incidentally, I just installed Navidrome on my Alpine Linux server for test, and it's currently scanning all my local music library. The heck if I'm going to depend to any proprietary device/format that is going to become a brick, then e-waste, as soon as the company behind it makes it obsolete. Happened a million times and will happen again.
https://www.navidrome.org/
Yes, I would totally push for legislation forcing manufacturers to unlock bootloaders and release tech info when they stop selling devices, so that hardware can be repurposed; landfills are already full of perfectly functioning stuff that could be put again in operation if manufacturers weren't so stubbornly hostile to anything Open Source.
https://www.navidrome.org/
Yes, I would totally push for legislation forcing manufacturers to unlock bootloaders and release tech info when they stop selling devices, so that hardware can be repurposed; landfills are already full of perfectly functioning stuff that could be put again in operation if manufacturers weren't so stubbornly hostile to anything Open Source.
Are you going to hook speakers up to your server? I'm planning my Google Home replacement strategy for if/when they add a subscription like Alexa. I want an offline whole home sound system with independent room controls, seems like Navidrome might work...
No need to use the server, Navidrome allows any client to connect remotely (WAN included) and play music that is hosted on the server. It also can be set up to transcode on the fly uncompressed music when it is accessed from a metered connection to minimize bandwidth usage. I barely scratched its surface, but it looks promising. The only requirement is that it needs the correct metadata to identify songs and download the correct lyrics, album images etc. There's a software called Musicbrainz Picard however that can be used to identify songs with incomplete or missing id3 tags data and it works using audio fingerprinting against a remote database so it should be accurate.
https://picard.musicbrainz.org/
Back to your post, if you need to play music from the server, take a look at the mpd daemon and its remote interfaces. It does the opposite as it plays from the server while the clients would be used as remote controls so that you can for example install mpd on a small single board computer (or more scattered around the house), configure them to access local or remote mount point, then grab your phone and tell the server to play the desired song.
https://www.musicpd.org/
https://picard.musicbrainz.org/
Back to your post, if you need to play music from the server, take a look at the mpd daemon and its remote interfaces. It does the opposite as it plays from the server while the clients would be used as remote controls so that you can for example install mpd on a small single board computer (or more scattered around the house), configure them to access local or remote mount point, then grab your phone and tell the server to play the desired song.
https://www.musicpd.org/
I like how they don’t actually answer the “why” question, “streamlining” is not an answer. They basically said because we’re changing things and this is one of the things we’re changing. Not being snarky but imo it would have been better PR copy to just not have the question at all.
I think they did answer it. Streamlining means that they no longer want to spend resources on this.
They don't mind that their customers paid them for it.
They don't mind that their customers paid them for it.
The weird thing is, CarThing is just a stripped-down Android with 512MB RAM, running a bare-bone Browser-engine to render the Web-App.
It's a Web-App. So what's the effort to keep this thing running for a while longer?
My guess is that they reached a stage where they should touch the OS again, and there's no-one in the company who can do it...
It's a Web-App. So what's the effort to keep this thing running for a while longer?
My guess is that they reached a stage where they should touch the OS again, and there's no-one in the company who can do it...
Off topic, but I cannot resist to comment on that line under the headline:
> By Chris Welch, a reviewer specializing in personal audio and home theater. Since 2011, he has published nearly 6,000 articles, from breaking news and reviews to useful how-tos
So 13 years, that’s around 460 publications per year. That sounds pretty high, you would have to be writing non stop for more than a decade. I know nothing about the tech new industry but is that realistic or just a fantasy?
> By Chris Welch, a reviewer specializing in personal audio and home theater. Since 2011, he has published nearly 6,000 articles, from breaking news and reviews to useful how-tos
So 13 years, that’s around 460 publications per year. That sounds pretty high, you would have to be writing non stop for more than a decade. I know nothing about the tech new industry but is that realistic or just a fantasy?
A lot of "tech news" journalism is just copy pasting a press release. They might also be counting every single article they were on the byline for, but they might not have actually substantially written that much. An example is some review of the "Best Headphones" where the article is huge, but he only wrote a paragraph.
I think you might also be underestimating how easy it becomes to just churn out article after article if that's your day-job. You're not writing literature or a longform article in the New Yorker; you're just bashing out 2-4 paragraphs, then rinse and repeat all day.
I think you might also be underestimating how easy it becomes to just churn out article after article if that's your day-job. You're not writing literature or a longform article in the New Yorker; you're just bashing out 2-4 paragraphs, then rinse and repeat all day.
Former journalist here. I worked at a business dot-com where the writers were expected to churn out at least 5 market briefs a day, and the majority of them did more. I also worked at a daily newspaper where it wasn't uncommon for me to write 8-10 news briefs a day, but they were largely just rehashing police reports or otherwise summarizing content that was already in front of me (as opposed to doing boots-on-the-ground reporting).
I dont know if i would call something like this[1] an article. Taking a bus ad and writing a few sentences about it. He seems great at copy pasting promotional emails he gets I guess
[1] https://www.theverge.com/2015/12/28/10674048/verizon-will-pa...
[1] https://www.theverge.com/2015/12/28/10674048/verizon-will-pa...
A "publication"in the digital media space includes 200 word blog posts, many of which simply link to other blog posts for the details.
In any case, the "website writer" jobs are known for overwork and low pay, so these numbers are par for the course.
In any case, the "website writer" jobs are known for overwork and low pay, so these numbers are par for the course.
Rant: I have all my shitify notifications turned off in the app. But, I still get those obnoxious "concert near you" banner that pushes the display down (changing all the button locations that I have memorized) and doesn't disapeered ubtil you click the tiny x.
It drives me bonkers.
I pay for family and am considering moving everyone to deezer out of spite
It drives me bonkers.
I pay for family and am considering moving everyone to deezer out of spite
Fair concern. You could be driving. And given the performance of their car UI and integration with car play, this banner could cause an accident.
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I don't have one of these and and this irritates me as a Spotify subscriber.
The least they could do is credit accounts with Spotify Premium, for those that bought these devices.
The least they could do is credit accounts with Spotify Premium, for those that bought these devices.
If they had done this, like, giving 1 year of subscription for free, that would have been an ethical and environmental scandal but the fact they did nothing is just insulting their customers.
I'm nearly a day one subscriber but i'm currently exploring my options to leave.
I'm nearly a day one subscriber but i'm currently exploring my options to leave.
Tidal is alright. They're mostly fine with doing their job instead of bombarding you with new pointless crap all the time. They haven't made a car thing. They aren't doing podcasts. They aren't reshuffling their UI every week. Basically they're (mostly, could be even better) just shutting the fuck up and it's definitely nicer than using Spotify was.
I subscribed to Tidal relatively early and could tell the difference in audio quality with some songs. I stuck with Spotify because I couldn't justify paying more for a smaller catalog.
I've been slowly frustrated with the changes Spotify keeps introducing... breaking my "Starred" songs by replacing it with "Liked" songs, tampering with song shuffle, and routinely switching me to "Autoplay". Some of the curated playlists have gone down in quality as well, they'll start off great and halfway through I'm wondering why the playlist changed so drastically.
I can't say for certain the discontinuation of Car Thing will have me end my subscription, but I will say this is the start of a wake up call for how Spotify treats their most loyal customers.
I've been slowly frustrated with the changes Spotify keeps introducing... breaking my "Starred" songs by replacing it with "Liked" songs, tampering with song shuffle, and routinely switching me to "Autoplay". Some of the curated playlists have gone down in quality as well, they'll start off great and halfway through I'm wondering why the playlist changed so drastically.
I can't say for certain the discontinuation of Car Thing will have me end my subscription, but I will say this is the start of a wake up call for how Spotify treats their most loyal customers.
You should check back their pricing. What you said was true some years ago but now that Spotify increased their prices multiple times, the pricing is the same (in Europe, the family plan is even 1€ cheaper).
I was always surprised car thing didn't have an aux out, it would have made it so much more useful for older cars.
Yes. Absolutely. In many ways, I think Car Thing did the inverse of what I expected it to do. It was mounted on my dash for a total of about 5 minutes.
How old are we talking? I've never owned a car that had an aux input unless I replaced the head unit - and if I replaced the head unit, then I would have Bluetooth too.
And EU is totally fine with this?
Should force them to open source it.
Should force them to open source it.
They never sold it in EU iirc, only US.
So this time, the US needs to handle this on their own...
So this time, the US needs to handle this on their own...
Here is a poll on Spotify's community asking to open source it - already almost 800 "signatures":
https://community.spotify.com/t5/Live-Ideas/Car-Thing-Develo...
https://community.spotify.com/t5/Live-Ideas/Car-Thing-Develo...
There was a poll with probably more signatures than that for adding "swipe to queue" to Android that they sat on for years until they finally implemented it.
What are the actual practical nuts and bolts problems with making bricking devices like this illegal? Someone in comments mentioned licensing contracts and things that might require them to but that seems resolvable. This seems so anti-social, anti-environment and not even benefitting them selfishly. Just a waste
I suspect it’s just a matter of it being easier to tell people to bin it than going through the hurdles of opening it (legal, drm, engineering, getting a budget, publishing instructions…) Plus doing anything at all beyond pulling the plug sounds like it will cost some amount of money (no matter how little) so someone somewhere will have to convince bean counters to allocate a budget for and capacity it.
It seemed clear they were at end of life when they started selling them for next to nothing last year.
We really need legislation to unlock devices like this when they reach EOL, the hardware here is very simple and could easily be reused.
We really need legislation to unlock devices like this when they reach EOL, the hardware here is very simple and could easily be reused.
I have never had confidence in Spotify's roadmap.
What's most disgusting is the tone and wording of the e-mail linked in the Reddit post. It reads like they're outright delighted to be breaking your 90-dollar piece of hardware. Not even a fake apology. Tech bros are getting more and more brazen.
That email would be fine if they were just discontinuing a feature of their ongoing service - it's disappointing, but you got value out of it while you were paying for it and now we're stopping and won't charge you any further.
But this is a stand-alone piece of hardware that they sold without an explicit expiry date, in a product category (car audio) that generally lasts decades (as they are solid-state devices with no moving parts) and now they're outright making it useless 2 years later without any refunds.
That email would be fine if they were just discontinuing a feature of their ongoing service - it's disappointing, but you got value out of it while you were paying for it and now we're stopping and won't charge you any further.
But this is a stand-alone piece of hardware that they sold without an explicit expiry date, in a product category (car audio) that generally lasts decades (as they are solid-state devices with no moving parts) and now they're outright making it useless 2 years later without any refunds.
Agreed it’s obnoxious. It also shows the balance of power between consumers and large businesses internet companies.
Best of luck safe travels buh-bye!!
Best of luck safe travels buh-bye!!
See also the recent Sonos app situation https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40397777
I would love to have a "real language" version of these corporate press releases. They sold a product, got your money, and now aren't just stopping updates but are actively bricking the device in 6 months. And telling you to throw it out 'safely' too.
I wanna sell something that I can just disable a year or so after I've sold it.
I wanna sell something that I can just disable a year or so after I've sold it.
It’s ok because they “deeply appreciate” our “support” (money).
What the hell does this even mean?
I was happy with this on my old civic. Now I’m switching to tidal.
What the hell does this even mean?
I was happy with this on my old civic. Now I’m switching to tidal.
What I always find so disappointing in these scenarios is when companies are too chicken-shit to just give a reasonable honest explanation to requests like open sourcing this to avoid them all turning into e-waste.
It feels like adding insult to injury for everyone who put faith in the product/company.
I've been a long-time premium subscriber of Spotify, but I've already decided I will never buy a hardware device from them (even before Car Thing came out) or do something like pay annually for their services, because I don't trust their commitment to anything for more than 30 days at a time at this point.
It feels like adding insult to injury for everyone who put faith in the product/company.
I've been a long-time premium subscriber of Spotify, but I've already decided I will never buy a hardware device from them (even before Car Thing came out) or do something like pay annually for their services, because I don't trust their commitment to anything for more than 30 days at a time at this point.
The honest explanation is that they lost so much money on the idea that they grimace at spending even another hour of developer time on them.
They don't care about waste, they don't care about the consumers, all decisions boil down to profit.
They don't care about waste, they don't care about the consumers, all decisions boil down to profit.
I agree. It’s so obvious that they’re trying way too hard to _not_ be the thing that I’m paying them for (music streaming).
> We're discontinuing Car Thing as part of our ongoing efforts to streamline our product offerings. We understand it may be disappointing, but this decision allows us to focus on developing new features and enhancements that will ultimately provide a better experience to all Spotify users.
But we just don't care. And what are you going to do?
But we just don't care. And what are you going to do?
apparently they're rootable so maybe some hobbyists will still be able to squeeze something cool out of the hardware (unlikely) but this is so malicious. https://www.xda-developers.com/spotify-car-thing-root/
So, how much did people pay for these devices that are now worthless?
$90 at release, not including the Spotify Premium subscription
I think it’s about time for me to give Apple Music another try. I don’t care for the direction that Spotify has been going over the last few years, especially with podcasts and audiobooks in the app. Spotify is a blight on the podcast ecosystem. I really don’t like Spotify‘s attitude towards Apple and cutting off their own nose to spite their face (See AirPlay 2) and the only reason I was still using Spotify is some of the UI/UX, which has gotten worse and worse over the last few years.
At one point I cared about the ability to integrate nicely with my Amazon echoes (it was much nicer than the Apple Music integration at the time) which I’ve been replacing with Sonos speakers anyways, which support AirPlay 2.
At one point I cared about the ability to integrate nicely with my Amazon echoes (it was much nicer than the Apple Music integration at the time) which I’ve been replacing with Sonos speakers anyways, which support AirPlay 2.
Someone should jailbreak it and publish a method for installing Linux on the hardware
It's an android device. There are already guides online for customising it using ADB. (mostly to get it to work without a premium account)
Remind me why I shouldn't be able to put my own version of Android on this again?
You might incorrectly assume you owned the device you bought.
Really upset by this, I love my Car Thing and the voice control Spotify built into it is second to none - it's quick, always hears me perfectly even with noise in the car, and most importantly, it actually plays what I want it to play.
It seems like it's integrated with my music history, so if I ask it to play a song that I listen to a lot but it has a very common name, it'll still get it right - it's like magic.
Google Assistant is absolute trash in comparison, even on the (rare) occasion that it finds the right song, it's super slow and half the time it won't even start the music. And good luck asking it to play a song that shares a name with a movie, it'll think you're trying to play the movie.
Really disappointed that Spotify is going to stop me from using a piece of hardware that I paid for, and by making me switch to Google Assistant is going to make listening to music in the car hell.
It seems like it's integrated with my music history, so if I ask it to play a song that I listen to a lot but it has a very common name, it'll still get it right - it's like magic.
Google Assistant is absolute trash in comparison, even on the (rare) occasion that it finds the right song, it's super slow and half the time it won't even start the music. And good luck asking it to play a song that shares a name with a movie, it'll think you're trying to play the movie.
Really disappointed that Spotify is going to stop me from using a piece of hardware that I paid for, and by making me switch to Google Assistant is going to make listening to music in the car hell.
The Spotify app used to have great speech recognition built in. I'm not sure but a furor over its privacy aspects might have played a part in its removal :(
The Car Thing is using the same voice control that used to be in the app, it's the only way you could still use their voice control up to now.
They cant open source it, I think, because it's filled with stolen open source code.
I retired my Car Thing three months after purchasing. All of the functionality was better on my phone with the exception of a large, tactile button.
I didn't expect any refund here but it does remind me of when Apple bought lala, the music streamer, for their track upload technology to be added to iTunes. I eventually got a check from Apple refunding the $25 I paid that had enabled the ability to play tracks more than once, in this case, 100 of them. I wasn't expecting anything but it was a nice gesture.
The Spotify experience continues to remind me I miss lala (and rdio).
I didn't expect any refund here but it does remind me of when Apple bought lala, the music streamer, for their track upload technology to be added to iTunes. I eventually got a check from Apple refunding the $25 I paid that had enabled the ability to play tracks more than once, in this case, 100 of them. I wasn't expecting anything but it was a nice gesture.
The Spotify experience continues to remind me I miss lala (and rdio).
Yeah this is absolutely sh*t news to be getting in an email from Spotify...
I use my CarThing as dedicated Spotify controller for my desktop PC and they're just straight up making it a paperweight rather than leaving in the current level of support for it so it could still function in the future without the need for constant updates (not that there ever seemed to be any anyway).
I hope they think again and reconsider either making it open source as people have suggested or just leaving the current level of functionality.
They will loose a lot of followers if they go down this road and potentially also get quite a lot of bad press.
I use my CarThing as dedicated Spotify controller for my desktop PC and they're just straight up making it a paperweight rather than leaving in the current level of support for it so it could still function in the future without the need for constant updates (not that there ever seemed to be any anyway).
I hope they think again and reconsider either making it open source as people have suggested or just leaving the current level of functionality.
They will loose a lot of followers if they go down this road and potentially also get quite a lot of bad press.
I frankly don't get what's so complicated for Spotify to keep this thing running as-is.
CarThing is a web application running on Chrome within a stripped-down Android core with 512MB RAM.
What happened, vulnerabilities which are not disclosed now?
I got one on sale a year ago, it's a really well-built nice device, would be great if they open-source the missing parts of it (the GPL'd kernel was released some time ago, but it's not the latest I think)
What happened, vulnerabilities which are not disclosed now?
I got one on sale a year ago, it's a really well-built nice device, would be great if they open-source the missing parts of it (the GPL'd kernel was released some time ago, but it's not the latest I think)
My favorite part of the announcement
> This decision wasn't made lightly
"We thought long and hard about the money we make and the stuff we sold our customers, and frowned when we realized we prefer the former"
> and we want to assure you that our commitment to providing a superior listening experience remains unchanged
That is: unless you are using car thing, in which case your experience will become much worse
> This decision wasn't made lightly
"We thought long and hard about the money we make and the stuff we sold our customers, and frowned when we realized we prefer the former"
> and we want to assure you that our commitment to providing a superior listening experience remains unchanged
That is: unless you are using car thing, in which case your experience will become much worse
Are there not already "right to repair" laws that clearly give the user of a legally purchased device that stops functioning because of a defect (even if the defect's origin is that Spotify has defectuous management) the right to repair that device?
I do not see how the right to repair does not mandate that Spotify publish any and all keys and documentation to allow the purchased devices to be repaired.
RIGHT?
I do not see how the right to repair does not mandate that Spotify publish any and all keys and documentation to allow the purchased devices to be repaired.
RIGHT?
If you paid with PayPal you can still file a dispute there. The seller in the U.S. was called Luzern (working on behalf of Spotify).
EDIT: don't waste your time, PayPal auto-denied it because it's been >180 days since the transaction ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
EDIT: don't waste your time, PayPal auto-denied it because it's been >180 days since the transaction ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Small claims court should work though.
"So you're bankrupt and can no longer provide the product you sold? Is this just a legal switcheroo, or is your C-suite team really to the point of personally being out on the street, with their pockets turned out empty?"
"Oh, goodness, no! We're doing great! But we already took that money, and we know our customers are too weak and airheaded to put law enforcement or regulators on us, nor to sue us for more than a free Big Mac coupon settlement received only after several years of foot-dragging. And most all of you pathetic worms will keep paying us money. If you can't hear us laughing at you, that's because you're plugged into one of our other products like a mindless zombie."
"Oh, goodness, no! We're doing great! But we already took that money, and we know our customers are too weak and airheaded to put law enforcement or regulators on us, nor to sue us for more than a free Big Mac coupon settlement received only after several years of foot-dragging. And most all of you pathetic worms will keep paying us money. If you can't hear us laughing at you, that's because you're plugged into one of our other products like a mindless zombie."
This was a stupid product to begin with. It solved a non-existent problem and had to... pair to your phone to work anyways which begs the question... why not literally just use the spotify app on your phone?
It has aux output which is the only way to input audio for many older cars. Your phone automatically connects via Bluetooth and you have a convenient display on the dash you can use to see what's playing and change the song. Not too many smartphones still have headphones jacks and having to connect your phone each time in the car with a USB to aux adapter cable is a little annoying. It also flexes all of the features Bluetooth audio supports (like album art) that even cars with Bluetooth don't always do. I almost bought one for my car but instead just cobbled together something using an FM modulator that was near useless in my area and a tape deck adapter. Works great and I have some basic playback controls in easy reach although a screen would have been nice. Buying an aftermarket stereo with Bluetooth would have been pretty expensive with the massive trim kit and the other crap I'd have to buy to keep my steering wheel controls working. I've also seen people using it on home stereos systems as well.
It's a perfect device to fill a specific niche for when you want Bluetooth audio but your existing audio system only has aux input or a tape deck.
It's a perfect device to fill a specific niche for when you want Bluetooth audio but your existing audio system only has aux input or a tape deck.
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How could they discontinue this product due to low demand when it was released to market in February 2022 and discontinued in July 2022? It wasn't on shelves long enough to assess demand.
They were probably selling it at a loss or at least not enough profit to have it stand on its own. It only works with Spotify premium accounts so they could easily see who bought one and upgraded their account to use it. I'm guessing they just saw mostly existing premium users buying them and definitely not enough of them. There are plenty of ways to get audio off your phone and into your non-bluetooth car stereo for less money so it's more of a luxury than a necessity.
Who is this product for? Someone that is willing to spend money on a relatively expensive Bluetooth receiver and a premium account and someone that is driving an older car (possibly 8-10 years old at least) that lacks bluetooth. Frugal car owners might not have a lot of overlap with those with the disposable income for premium audio equipment and music subscriptions.
For $100, you can pretty much buy a new stereo that has Bluetooth and you don't need Spotify premium to use it. Even just $15 on Amazon will buy you a Bluetooth receiver that works with your car's aux jack or a cassette adapter. It's a neat device and definitely filled a niche for some people but it wasn't going to convert many users to a paid account.
Who is this product for? Someone that is willing to spend money on a relatively expensive Bluetooth receiver and a premium account and someone that is driving an older car (possibly 8-10 years old at least) that lacks bluetooth. Frugal car owners might not have a lot of overlap with those with the disposable income for premium audio equipment and music subscriptions.
For $100, you can pretty much buy a new stereo that has Bluetooth and you don't need Spotify premium to use it. Even just $15 on Amazon will buy you a Bluetooth receiver that works with your car's aux jack or a cassette adapter. It's a neat device and definitely filled a niche for some people but it wasn't going to convert many users to a paid account.
What surprised me in the article was
> “The goal of our Car Thing exploration in the U.S. was to learn more about how people listen in the car,” the company said in an emailed statement to TechCrunch.
The goal was not to build a consumer device for users who actually wanted to use the damned thing! So it apparently was never about demand to begin with, it was a learning exercise. Apparently the RLHF was so disastrous it only took 5 months to train this feature out of Spotify's business plan.
> “The goal of our Car Thing exploration in the U.S. was to learn more about how people listen in the car,” the company said in an emailed statement to TechCrunch.
The goal was not to build a consumer device for users who actually wanted to use the damned thing! So it apparently was never about demand to begin with, it was a learning exercise. Apparently the RLHF was so disastrous it only took 5 months to train this feature out of Spotify's business plan.
I guess Spotify has made the strategic decision not to pursue the consumer car market and instead to cede that space to Sirius. Because this absolutely poisons the well against anyone buying hardware from Spotify again.
This product was always doomed. Android Auto and CarPlay entirely negate the need for this.
I knew this would happen when they had a fire sale on these - but surprised that it won't work at all anymore. Hope they open source the firmware, unlock the boot loader so nerds like us can do something with it
Unrelated but what's going on with the cookie prompt on this site. There's a bunch of cookies used for advertising that you cannot say no to. I can't imagine that this is allowed.
Well this is about as legal as bricking (aka vandalizing) a device people paid money for, but hey when you're a company breaking the law/regulations is just normal business practice.
What the hell are they discontinuing? The hardware won't change. Streaming MP3 shouldn't be rocket science that requires 50 engineers.
Even if the internal API-s change, can't they just create mappings the devices need? They are not even willing to put that effort in.
So sad to see software companies treat hardware as a failed hobby project then flat out say customers to bring their devices to an e-waste dump like they do in their FAQ.
Even if the internal API-s change, can't they just create mappings the devices need? They are not even willing to put that effort in.
So sad to see software companies treat hardware as a failed hobby project then flat out say customers to bring their devices to an e-waste dump like they do in their FAQ.
> 50 engineers
50?? Try 1600+ (from https://engineering.atspotify.com/opensource/)
50?? Try 1600+ (from https://engineering.atspotify.com/opensource/)
I was referring to the team to maintain Car Thing :)
Mail the device to Spotify’s headquarters. Better, a Swedish artist should build a memorial made of these devices in front of Spotify’s headquarters.
How much work could it possibly be to simply deprecate the software, let alone open-source it? Flipping the switch to break every existing device is frankly malicious.
Some discussion I saw elsewhere speculated that it was to avoid liability since they won't update it anymore, although there's no reason they couldn't open source it as an at-your-own-risk way to keep using it (or at least provide some documentation to the people already jailbreaking them).
There is a DIY alternative:
https://github.com/witnessmenow/Spotify-Diy-Thing
https://github.com/witnessmenow/Spotify-Diy-Thing
Hardly an alternative unfortunately.
The biggest benefit of the Car Thing for me was flawless voice control that leagues ahead of Google Assistant, the Car Thing was much more than a screen that showed album art.
The biggest benefit of the Car Thing for me was flawless voice control that leagues ahead of Google Assistant, the Car Thing was much more than a screen that showed album art.
I have to second this, I've never had an issue with Car Thing's voice recognition. As you'd mentioned, even in a windy or loud car and with tough to pronounce names, it's always understood what I was asking - or opening the correct playlists from my library.
I haven't found a similar replacement for that.
I haven't found a similar replacement for that.
I don't know why folks would grow a dependency upon a middleman between you and your music collection.
What's wrong with a usb pen drive full of tunes?
You get to keep the files!
What's wrong with a usb pen drive full of tunes?
You get to keep the files!
They provide a really pleasant service in return: new music discovery
I may not keep the files, but if I left Spotify I’m still left with a list of thousands of songs I enjoy and almost certainly wouldn’t have discovered otherwise.
I may not keep the files, but if I left Spotify I’m still left with a list of thousands of songs I enjoy and almost certainly wouldn’t have discovered otherwise.
> What's wrong with a usb pen drive full of tunes?
I don't know about you, but my whole life is in the cloud these days. /s
I don't know about you, but my whole life is in the cloud these days. /s
This is infuriating. I bought the CarThing for a Christmas present for someone just six months ago.
I understand it was no longer supported at the time, but there is no reason why it couldn't still function as a controller, there solution is just to throw it away?
Hate the PR speak here "This decision wasn't made lightly, and we want to assure you that our commitment to providing a superior listening experience remains unchanged."
So what superior listening experience are they committed too exactly? When all they are doing is lowering the experience?
I understand it was no longer supported at the time, but there is no reason why it couldn't still function as a controller, there solution is just to throw it away?
Hate the PR speak here "This decision wasn't made lightly, and we want to assure you that our commitment to providing a superior listening experience remains unchanged."
So what superior listening experience are they committed too exactly? When all they are doing is lowering the experience?
> I bought the CarThing for a Christmas present for someone just six months ago
Depending on your jurisdiction, this may be a short enough window to warrant a refund. Or at the very least a chargeback.
Depending on your jurisdiction, this may be a short enough window to warrant a refund. Or at the very least a chargeback.
When their main competitors have been streaming high res, lossless and atmos content for a while now, it’s rough to see them claim they are committed to a superior listening experience with 320kbps ogg being the best they have in 2024.
Perhaps pruning projects like this helps them deliver on higher quality streams, which they have been alluding to for years now. Spotify Hifi was announced in 2021.
Perhaps pruning projects like this helps them deliver on higher quality streams, which they have been alluding to for years now. Spotify Hifi was announced in 2021.
I'm not sure how it would. The Spotify Car thing is just a controller for your phone, it doesn't actually do the streaming of the music, that is still handled by the app on the phone. It's just a kick in the teeth for users that bought into it, I get it's a failed product but that should be the cost of business that they support it at least somewhat, it wouldn't take much, but they are killing it completely.
The fact is, 99% of people do not care about high quality audio (me included)
Would be nice if they just open sourced it but that would require Spotify to allow playback control outside of their terrible, janky apps.
Any state AG want a class action lawsuit, bricking a device I use seems like a crime of some kind.
At first I thought it was an Onion headline, as if "Car Thing" was a real name...
Spotify, another great example of the VC funded tech cancers that came to disrupt and turned out to be even worse then what came before…
We deserve this shit, because we keep buying into it
We deserve this shit, because we keep buying into it
I am not clear where the sound comes from. Does the thing itself have speakers?
Car Thing is just a bluetooth remote control for Spotify or other audio applications. The music still comes from the phone - to the car's speaker system via whatever method your phone is connected (bluetooth, aux jack, etc..)
If that's really what it is then why does it matter if they won't be made anymore? There must be more to it such as always online DRM service also closing.
Nobody cares that it isn't being made anymore. People are upset that their already purchased devices are being turned into paperweights because they won't maintain the online infrastructure they required to use it. It's wasteful and unfair to the people who bought it and should not be allowed legally.
Yeah I understand that. That wasn't my point. If it was just a "bluetooth remote control" as the GP describes it why does it stop working when some remote service is turned off? It clearly isn't one.
Ah, OK thanks. I had never heard of it.
It's surprising to me that people see examples like this and somehow still think, "well, it's one bad apple. One bad decision from one company" rather than a systematic problem with incentive structures.
Capitalism, and particularly capitalism that emphasizes profit, warps incentives away from building things for people.
And we have other functioning models! Open source is about as close to anarchist theory in practice as there is, for example. "Wellbeing for all" isn't some pipe dream we could never achieve, FOSS is built on the principle of "I'll build it, use it if you like. Help me if you can."
Capitalism, and particularly capitalism that emphasizes profit, warps incentives away from building things for people.
And we have other functioning models! Open source is about as close to anarchist theory in practice as there is, for example. "Wellbeing for all" isn't some pipe dream we could never achieve, FOSS is built on the principle of "I'll build it, use it if you like. Help me if you can."
When IoT means InOperable Technology! :-)
Friendly reminder that if a you agree to a terms of service for a hardware device you don't own it.
It's one thing for software to be a service. Hardware? No thanks. I will never, ever "buy "something still controlled by the manufacturer after I take it home, and I discourage everyone from doing so.
It's one thing for software to be a service. Hardware? No thanks. I will never, ever "buy "something still controlled by the manufacturer after I take it home, and I discourage everyone from doing so.
"If purchase isn't ownership, then stealing remotely-brickable devices isn't theft."
*cracking
Stealing devices is still theft.
Stealing devices is still theft.
Not surprising, given the awkward position the product was in, targeting customers who don’t already have CarPlay or Android Auto (lower end of the market), but are also willing to pay for Spotify Premium and a good smartphone data plan (higher end of the market).
This is somewhat out of touch.
Even a cheap car car costs £1000's up front (or £100's/mo financed), with recurring > £100 a month in insurances, fuel, and repairs.
A spotify subscription costs £12/mo, and a family plan £20/mo.
A more than good enough data plan is £10/mo.
A more than good enough smartphone is £100.
The vast majority of older car owners can easily afford a Spotify subscription.
Even a cheap car car costs £1000's up front (or £100's/mo financed), with recurring > £100 a month in insurances, fuel, and repairs.
A spotify subscription costs £12/mo, and a family plan £20/mo.
A more than good enough data plan is £10/mo.
A more than good enough smartphone is £100.
The vast majority of older car owners can easily afford a Spotify subscription.
I guess the US has more of a culture of buying new cars but here in Ireland, basically everyone I know has some form of unlimited data and no one has a car from the last two years. Our new car sales are about 120,000/yr compared to a licensed vehicle count of 2,800,000, which implies that most cars get driven for 20 years before being retired, which from the distribution of cars I see on the road seems entirely plausible. Our registration plates have the year of first licensing printed prominently on them, and there are many 2008 cars still on the road.
In short, the top ~10% might have modern cars. The top ~90% have unlimited data or data where the limits will not be reached by playing Spotify. I could see someone going "Hmm, that's 80% of the market we could sell this too".
In short, the top ~10% might have modern cars. The top ~90% have unlimited data or data where the limits will not be reached by playing Spotify. I could see someone going "Hmm, that's 80% of the market we could sell this too".
This seems like a very US-centric view or the world. If you make a decent amount of money you have to spend it on a car? Lots of people don’t care about cars and/or don’t spend a enough time in them to justify spending a lot on it.
What a weird critique. American or not, if you don't have a car you're probably not in the target market for a CarThing
I purchased mine without any intent on using it in a car, and in fact I never did, but it was clear that I was engaging in out-of-bounds behavior in doing so.
I purchased mine without any intent on using it in a car, and in fact I never did, but it was clear that I was engaging in out-of-bounds behavior in doing so.
> What a weird critique. American or not, if you don't have a car you're probably not in the target market for a CarThing
It wasn't about having a car or not. It was the assumption that if you have a higher income you are automatically willing to spend a sizeable chunk on it on a car. Not all people are as obsessed with cars as the average American.
I do pretty well for myself and I can think of a thousand things I'd rather spend my money on than on a car.
It wasn't about having a car or not. It was the assumption that if you have a higher income you are automatically willing to spend a sizeable chunk on it on a car. Not all people are as obsessed with cars as the average American.
I do pretty well for myself and I can think of a thousand things I'd rather spend my money on than on a car.
The parent didn't say "no car" they said "cheap car". Most people can't afford to buy new cars.
I was recently looking at starter cars for my daughter as a college graduation present, and I think you'd be surprised how far down-market those features have moved.
A brand new Toyota Corolla is $22k and comes with both. For older cars, you can get a nice stereo for $300. If you aren't an audiophile, probably $100.
A brand new Toyota Corolla is $22k and comes with both. For older cars, you can get a nice stereo for $300. If you aren't an audiophile, probably $100.
I drive a 20+ year old SUV, mostly just for commute. It’s too noisy to bother with a good stereo.
You can get a Bluetooth-capable stereo with hands-free microphone for around $100, and while I haven’t yet installed it, I just bought a 7” screen double-DIN stereo for under $300 that has (wired) CarPlay and Android Auto integration, plus a backup camera. It even has ports for a front camera if you want one, though you’ll have to buy it separately. That’s a huge capability upgrade for very little money, and not at a discount retailer either. I got it from Crutchfield, whose value proposition is extensive installation advice and lifetime tech support from actual experts based in the US.
You can get a Bluetooth-capable stereo with hands-free microphone for around $100, and while I haven’t yet installed it, I just bought a 7” screen double-DIN stereo for under $300 that has (wired) CarPlay and Android Auto integration, plus a backup camera. It even has ports for a front camera if you want one, though you’ll have to buy it separately. That’s a huge capability upgrade for very little money, and not at a discount retailer either. I got it from Crutchfield, whose value proposition is extensive installation advice and lifetime tech support from actual experts based in the US.
> I just bought a 7” screen double-DIN stereo for under $300 that has (wired) CarPlay and Android Auto integration, plus a backup camera
$300 is more than I spend on gas each year. Not worth it.
$300 is more than I spend on gas each year. Not worth it.
What does the price of gasoline have to do with whether or not it's worth it. You have to spend that on gas regardless, so why not have a nice screen while you're doing that driving that you have to do anyway for?
It’s not about the price of gas, it’s to illustrate how little I use my car.
I mean, if you don't really drive it, then yeah, it's a waste. But if so, why do you even own a car? Renting is pretty cheap if you only need one occasionally.
Backup cameras aren't necessary, but they're damned handy. I thought front cameras were kind of silly until I drove a car with one, but it turns out they're very useful in the right situations.
Backup cameras aren't necessary, but they're damned handy. I thought front cameras were kind of silly until I drove a car with one, but it turns out they're very useful in the right situations.
> why do you even own a car? Renting is pretty cheap if you only need one occasionally.
Because owning a small, cheap car doesn’t cost much and is way more convenient than renting one.
For example. I use my car when I need to transport something I can’t take on my bike. I might need to pick up a package from the nearest parcel point that’s too big or too heavy to transport otherwise. This is about 500 meters from my house, just too far to walk with a heavy package (done that, not fun) but renting a car for a 2 minute trip seems a bit ridiculous.
Or I may want to buy a few crates of beer for a party. A bit inconvenient to get by bike (although possible). This is a 1 kilometer trip. Again, not worth the trouble renting a car for but not a problem if I already have a car anyway.
Or I may need to take some stuff to the recycling center. Again a short trip (2 kilometers).
You may start to see a pattern here. If I had to rent a car for those situations then it would take me more time to pick up and retrieve a rental than for the trip I need it for.
Because owning a small, cheap car doesn’t cost much and is way more convenient than renting one.
For example. I use my car when I need to transport something I can’t take on my bike. I might need to pick up a package from the nearest parcel point that’s too big or too heavy to transport otherwise. This is about 500 meters from my house, just too far to walk with a heavy package (done that, not fun) but renting a car for a 2 minute trip seems a bit ridiculous.
Or I may want to buy a few crates of beer for a party. A bit inconvenient to get by bike (although possible). This is a 1 kilometer trip. Again, not worth the trouble renting a car for but not a problem if I already have a car anyway.
Or I may need to take some stuff to the recycling center. Again a short trip (2 kilometers).
You may start to see a pattern here. If I had to rent a car for those situations then it would take me more time to pick up and retrieve a rental than for the trip I need it for.
Fine, but if you own a car that you use for that level of convenience, you shouldn’t care that much about a $300 one-time expense. It’s just not that much compared to the cost of owning a car.
You may not care about the features of that sound system, and so don’t want one, but that’s a different story than “it’s too expensive”.
You may not care about the features of that sound system, and so don’t want one, but that’s a different story than “it’s too expensive”.
The American assumption is that cars are purchased new, and are recent enough to have integrated android auto/carplay.
Or it means that the people who can afford fast phones and expensive internet are capable of buying a $300 car stereo with AA/CP capability.
My 2001 Jeep Wrangler has both
My 2001 Jeep Wrangler has both
My phone plan costs $14/month and could power music indefinitely at high speeds. Notably, it's something I already have and already pay for.
$300 more for a new stereo is still a lot to many people. Plus, if I buy beater cars but put a nice stereo in them I'm at risk of theft. And I have to pay install fees again if I buy my next beater.
$300 more for a new stereo is still a lot to many people. Plus, if I buy beater cars but put a nice stereo in them I'm at risk of theft. And I have to pay install fees again if I buy my next beater.
This just further illustrates OP's point, of how very limited this market segment must be
The buyers of this product are people who:
The buyers of this product are people who:
- spend enough time in their car to want streaming audio
- spend money on phone and internet
- have a desire to improve their car to have streaming audio
- but not enough to replace the car
- and also not enough to replace the stereo
- but definitely enough to pay money to add it
- and are willing to remove the item they are paying for every time they leave the car to prevent its attractiveness to thievesI think its less about high-end/low-end, after all carplay did not hit Toyota until around 2018. Its simply that you still need a phone to use the device, might as well connect your phone to your cars audio and use your phones screen.
That’s the crux of it. Someone already paying for Spotify and practically any smartphone can just buy a car mount and get pretty much the same experience. My high/low comment missed the mark. Someone in that position (without CarPlay) is more likely buy a $20 mount for their phone than a $100 one-trick pony device.
But the real question is why brick it? What requires so much maintenance?
A wild guess? Maybe enhanced DRM so the audio path can't be MITM'd, and the digital audio data captured?
Not that it's an acceptable reason, but could they be paying some kind of ongoing license for a codec or some other licensed software on the thing?
DevOps, monitoring, support costs, ongoing security burden. You can’t just ship a device specific API anymore and call it done. Those services will have at least monthly security updates, plus all the shimming and API back-compact work that has to be done as the backend Spotify services change.
I understand, at the same time the api shouldn't be too different to what is used by other devices (otherwise they would be just shooting themselves in the foot)
somnic(1)
I miss the era when I was a customer paying for a product. Now I'm apparently some kind of traveller that's on a journey with dozens of companies as they try to find local maxima of profit.