The Naughty Words the FAA Removed from the Sky(beautifulpublicdata.com)
beautifulpublicdata.com
The Naughty Words the FAA Removed from the Sky
https://www.beautifulpublicdata.com/trump-naughty-faa-waypoints/
45 comments
This is a complete waste of taxpayer dollars. If I'm reading correctly the Florida waypoints referenced were renamed because a busybody NY Times reporter complained?
I'm astonished that changing instrument approach procedures required only 50 hours and $11,000. I would have guessed an order of magnitude more than that.
for FAA / FRA (aviation / railroad) I'd have assumed easily an order of magnitude.
e.g. 11k just to get a team together for a day to evaluate the safety implications of the change.
e.g. 11k just to get a team together for a day to evaluate the safety implications of the change.
Karen Schwartz, a stringer for the New York Times, asked if we are considering renaming three air traffic fixes near Palm Beach International Airport because of Donald Trump’s recent “racist statements about Mexicans.
Asked != complained.
Asked != complained.
Karen, eh? Schwartz, eh?
Let's not play games with semantics. You know quite well what is implied. No one asks a specific question like that (with loaded language like 'racist') unless they expect action.
Journalists do.
Everything journalists do is for attention. Stirring up fake controversy for views is not something to be respected.
Trump did call Mexicans rapists and murders (among other things). That’s unquestionably racist. There is nothing loaded about calling a spade a spade.
Like, he said that at least one Mexican is a rapist or murderer? Or did he say all Mexicans are murderers and rapists? Or something else?
Please don't show me the quote. I know it. I want to hear your understanding of the quote, and how you can square it with how you described the quote.
Please don't show me the quote. I know it. I want to hear your understanding of the quote, and how you can square it with how you described the quote.
So, the statement wasn’t racist? Sure thing bud.
Where did I say it wasn't racist? I'm asking you who you believe he was talking about with the rapists and murderers statement. Some people think Trump said "Mexicans are rapists and murderers", which is why I'm asking.
He claimed Mexico was sending mostly rapists and criminals. And possibly some good people too. It was unquestionably a racist statement, so I’m confused why a reporter calling it such is somehow controversial.
He was referring to specifically MS-13 gang members, a phenomenon that ironically originated in California but became a machismo thing in MX and Central America. And he was referring to individuals who had committed heinous crimes and also just happened to have body art that proclaimed their involvement in these gangs. It is something no public figure of any party would refrain from noticing. So a bunch of deceitful journalists got together and decided to "pretend" ignorance of the context and generalize his remarks. Trump correctly and righteously declared the MS-13 violent criminals were "animals". They pretended that he had declared it about migrants in general and clipped him saying "animals" with little surrounding context. Find the whole section of speech and see if he really said anything you'd disagree with.
Here's the full transcript of that speech...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/06...
Nowhere does he mention MS-13 by name or even hint at them. Just an awkward transition from Japanese cars and Chevrolets to Mexico sending criminals across the border.
Nowhere does he mention MS-13 by name or even hint at them. Just an awkward transition from Japanese cars and Chevrolets to Mexico sending criminals across the border.
> Here's the full transcript of that speech [...] Nowhere does he mention MS-13 by name or even hint at them.
He doesn't mention "animals" in that one either. The "animals" thing resulted from queries to Trump over his policy to deport violent criminals. This video contains 3 clips:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/K7N9aNfp8e2z/
0-0:17 , a clip from a deceptively edited video presentation at the 2020 Democratic Convention where a young girl alleges she is "an orphan because of you" and Trump's only response is to scream "They're animals!"
0:17-0:37 , from a press conference. Animals refers to MS-13 who have committed violent crimes.
0:37-1:04 , from a rally: "So Bob Casey, doesn't mind MS-13 coming in. These are the 'slicers' [slicing gesture], they slice people up and they're... and you remember I told them 'animal' and Nancy Pelosi scolded me. 'How DARE he call another human being an animal.' They're animals!"
So that is the clip the DNC used. I wonder if they told the little girl that Trump was referring to people who stab and cut others. Or just her parents.
He doesn't mention "animals" in that one either. The "animals" thing resulted from queries to Trump over his policy to deport violent criminals. This video contains 3 clips:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/K7N9aNfp8e2z/
0-0:17 , a clip from a deceptively edited video presentation at the 2020 Democratic Convention where a young girl alleges she is "an orphan because of you" and Trump's only response is to scream "They're animals!"
0:17-0:37 , from a press conference. Animals refers to MS-13 who have committed violent crimes.
0:37-1:04 , from a rally: "So Bob Casey, doesn't mind MS-13 coming in. These are the 'slicers' [slicing gesture], they slice people up and they're... and you remember I told them 'animal' and Nancy Pelosi scolded me. 'How DARE he call another human being an animal.' They're animals!"
So that is the clip the DNC used. I wonder if they told the little girl that Trump was referring to people who stab and cut others. Or just her parents.
There is however a sad true core, most dangerous, poor or authoritarian places produce young repeat offenders who then migrate away from that place when draconian punishment looms. Europe its marroko, algeria and egypt. Then again, a ton of them use this chance to turn their lifes around..
I don't know, it doesn't seem racist to me, it seems more like an (incorrect) comment on the type of people who cross the border illegally, which is only a fraction of all Mexicans.
> When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. […] They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people
I can't imagine undoubtedly racist people, like saying the Grand Master of the KKK, making a statement like that and then throwing in a comment about how some black people are good people.
> When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. […] They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people
I can't imagine undoubtedly racist people, like saying the Grand Master of the KKK, making a statement like that and then throwing in a comment about how some black people are good people.
"[He] has gathered millions of the dirty, immoral, drunken, filthy-mouthed, lazy and repulsive people sneeringly called 'n***' and inspired them to the point where they are clean, sober, honest, hard working, dignified, dedicated and admirable human beings in spite of their color..."
- George Lincoln Rockwell on Elijah Muhammad
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lincoln_Rockwell#Black_...
- George Lincoln Rockwell on Elijah Muhammad
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lincoln_Rockwell#Black_...
Don't worry, these are the kinds of people who also claim phrases like 'basket of deplorables' and 'people who cling to guns and religion' as well as “they’re worried that they’ll be vaccinated and deported.” or "That’s like saying you... before you got in this program, you’re take a test whether you’re taking cocaine or not... What do you think? Huh? Are you a junkie?” are racist --obviously.
It's not like this money was actually spent. From what I understand, they calculated it in terms of time spent by full-time employees, who would need to be paid for that time regardless. People don't work at 100% efficiency, so this likely just meant a higher workload for a few people for a week or so.
Also, 11k is tiny when it comes to something like the FAA and it's not like it can be spent for something you deem more worthy once it's budgeted to them.
And I for one think removing names of assholes like Trump from places they have no right being is worth the little effort it takes.
Also, 11k is tiny when it comes to something like the FAA and it's not like it can be spent for something you deem more worthy once it's budgeted to them.
And I for one think removing names of assholes like Trump from places they have no right being is worth the little effort it takes.
I'd call that reading poorly-supported enough to be incorrect. The report establishes that waypoint names are changed somewhat frequently for reasons that are largely left to mystery, but can include "a basketball player I like died." Additionally, "This is on fire right now" suggests some relevant context beyond "a single reporter sent us a nosy email." So while it may technically be true that the email preceded the name change in the chain of causality, its framing as the principal cause appears to be a narrative built of incomplete information. The linked NYT article also mentions pushback from pilots.
> If I'm reading correctly the Florida waypoints referenced were renamed because a busybody NY Times reporter complained?
Do you suppose that if a so-called busybody complained about a waypoint the FAA didn’t care about, they’d bother to change it?
It was $11k. You could probably pay that with the change in your couch.
Do you suppose that if a so-called busybody complained about a waypoint the FAA didn’t care about, they’d bother to change it?
It was $11k. You could probably pay that with the change in your couch.
It cost the FAA that. There's probably many more downstream costs.
> It was $11k. You could probably pay that with the change in your couch.
I'm nominating this for 2024 Hacker News out-of-touch comment of the year.
I'm having flashbacks of Bill Gates on the Ellen show years ago thinking a packet of crisps costs $10.
I'm nominating this for 2024 Hacker News out-of-touch comment of the year.
I'm having flashbacks of Bill Gates on the Ellen show years ago thinking a packet of crisps costs $10.
The comment GP was responding to was in relation to taxpayer dollars. $11000/about 340000000 people in the US = 0.003 cents per person. Sure, not all people pay the same amount of taxes, but that's really not that much compared to other things that the federal government spends money on.
Conclusion? Yeah, the average person probably has more than 0.003 cents in their couch.
Conclusion? Yeah, the average person probably has more than 0.003 cents in their couch.
Ah, my mistake. The intent behind my comment was that in aggregate there are infinitely better ways of spending $11k of government money, whether that went to a worthy social cause or what should be the FAA's primary mission: improving aviation safety. Arbitrary renaming of waypoints for emotional reasons is ridiculous.
A similar situation in Seattle a few years ago, they renamed the "Red Line" branch of their new metro system because people said it was racist. True story. The effort to reprint maps, repaint the trains, etc. cost much, much more than $11k. The system is behind schedule and grossly over budget to the tune of ~$0.5B.
A similar situation in Seattle a few years ago, they renamed the "Red Line" branch of their new metro system because people said it was racist. True story. The effort to reprint maps, repaint the trains, etc. cost much, much more than $11k. The system is behind schedule and grossly over budget to the tune of ~$0.5B.
The system isn't behind and over budget because of renaming the branch, that's peanuts. It's behind (at least the I-90 segment) because they managed to screw up laying the concrete twice. The second time they just didn't measure right and were off by two inches - after pouring the whole thing. Again.
Focusing on wokeness just serves to distract from the mundane but more serious problem of incompetence.
Focusing on wokeness just serves to distract from the mundane but more serious problem of incompetence.
Zooming into my local area is a fun bit of puzzling over some of the changes.
I guess I see why XXWNG is changed to EXWNG (less ambiguous), but why is Colorado's BRNKO changed to VONNN? (edit: aha, maybe local hero Lindsey Vonn) HASHE is changed to JURKY, maybe because the former could be a drug reference to Colorado, and HIPPE is changed (though it was in a decidedly non-crunchy part of Colorado).
FLAIL became DEELO, and if I was forced to guess it's because saying "flail" over a radio would be something I'd tend to slowly overpronounce. CENTN was presumably changed because it's almost the name of the nearest airport (KAPA, Centennial Airport).
I guess I see why XXWNG is changed to EXWNG (less ambiguous), but why is Colorado's BRNKO changed to VONNN? (edit: aha, maybe local hero Lindsey Vonn) HASHE is changed to JURKY, maybe because the former could be a drug reference to Colorado, and HIPPE is changed (though it was in a decidedly non-crunchy part of Colorado).
FLAIL became DEELO, and if I was forced to guess it's because saying "flail" over a radio would be something I'd tend to slowly overpronounce. CENTN was presumably changed because it's almost the name of the nearest airport (KAPA, Centennial Airport).
> VONNN
`My girlfriend is named Lynn. She spells her name "Lynn". My old girlfriend's name is Lyn, too, but she spells it "Lyn". Every now and then I screw up, I call my new girlfriend by my old girlfriend's name, and she can tell because I don't say "n" as long.'
`My girlfriend is named Lynn. She spells her name "Lynn". My old girlfriend's name is Lyn, too, but she spells it "Lyn". Every now and then I screw up, I call my new girlfriend by my old girlfriend's name, and she can tell because I don't say "n" as long.'
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40504467 1 day ago 4 comments
Is there a time limit before these can be reused somewhere else? I assume it's not immediate, or it might cause confusion. Most of these names are only bad because of the area they're over.
I appreciate the creativity put into some of these though, I assume that makes most of the notable navpoints more memorable.
I appreciate the creativity put into some of these though, I assume that makes most of the notable navpoints more memorable.
Looks like DROWN is still out there.
https://opennav.com/waypoint/US/DROWN
https://opennav.com/waypoint/US/DROWN
My all time favorite is HPSTR waypoint outside PDX.
Many of these aren't obviously problems?
KOYEV TFTBP IPNAW etc.
KOYEV TFTBP IPNAW etc.
I assume the article included all changed navpoints over that time period on the 19 page table. There's even some duplicates for some reason like COYNU, I presume because the renaming didn't go through.
Nothing gold can stay...
> Southwest of Cleveland, OH, there was a cluster of now removed waypoints: WHHAT, THATZ and MYMOM.
> Southwest of Cleveland, OH, there was a cluster of now removed waypoints: WHHAT, THATZ and MYMOM.
What I’m getting from this story is that the FAA has too many employees and too much money.
At one point there was a FUBAR waypoint near Phoenix.
> Therefore, there offensive and derogatory nature went unnoticed until the recent comments of Donald Trump’s speech.
I'm not quite sure what they mean by that. If the sequence was TRMMP DPORT MXCNS maybe.
I'm not quite sure what they mean by that. If the sequence was TRMMP DPORT MXCNS maybe.
SFO has some appropriately Silicon Valley-themed waypoints: the SSTIK5 departure procedure has "CISKO", "EBAYE" and "UTOOB". SFO also has the SNTNA2 departure which has "KYNNG", "KRLOS" and "SNTNA" (in that order).
LAS has the GAMES2 arrival which has "FUULL", "HOUZZ" and "BYNGO".
My personal favourites, however, are at Philadelphia (PHL), where there are there two arrivals named after cheesesteak restaurants: JIIMS4 and PAATS4.
LAS has the GAMES2 arrival which has "FUULL", "HOUZZ" and "BYNGO".
My personal favourites, however, are at Philadelphia (PHL), where there are there two arrivals named after cheesesteak restaurants: JIIMS4 and PAATS4.
And yet, they kept SHART. Love it. https://skyvector.com/?ll=40.49952904132459,-98.213836672882...
I'm sure Philadelphians were glad that JAWNS from the SouthEast US got renamed!
YIYUY -> CFVKH
How do you even spell that.
How do you even spell that.
How do you say it, you mean? You don't. They are CNFs - computer navigation fixes, used primarily by FMSs and not ATC.