Ask HN: Who wants to be fired? (February 2025)
As the software development market shows no signs of recovery this year, and with the Gen AI bubble potentially about to burst as well, how many of us are considering quitting our jobs and moving into other fields?
77 comments
I'd love to, but I don't really have a choice at the moment.
Maybe I'm just at the wrong place at the wrong time, but as a software engineer I don't feel like I'm doing any actual engineering and solving meaningful problems, just spaghetti gluing random frameworks, packages and services together. The only problems I get to solve are those caused by the quirks of all these incompatible things being forced to work together. It's draining.
Maybe I'm just at the wrong place at the wrong time, but as a software engineer I don't feel like I'm doing any actual engineering and solving meaningful problems, just spaghetti gluing random frameworks, packages and services together. The only problems I get to solve are those caused by the quirks of all these incompatible things being forced to work together. It's draining.
Sounds like software engineering…
This is the job most of the time, especially at large corporations. You’re mostly fixing legacy decisions and trying to patch together solutions to current problems (instead of fixing tomorrow’s problems). Hang in there.
This is the job most of the time, especially at large corporations. You’re mostly fixing legacy decisions and trying to patch together solutions to current problems (instead of fixing tomorrow’s problems). Hang in there.
Guys, maybe software development and government are the same: mostly boring thankless activities entirely necessary but only observed in absence.
"Hang in there" implies that the situation is going to improve. It won't. You end up ratcheting your title and pay upwards until you find yourself in the position of doing nothing useful all day for an amount of money that precludes switching to another career without a drastic pay cut. And you're probably hitting your mid-life crisis zenith right around this time too.
"Boo hoo" I know, but it is its own little Dante's Inferno.
"Boo hoo" I know, but it is its own little Dante's Inferno.
This is exactly what I'm seeing everywhere these days. It's chaotic and exhausting.
This hits so deep, and you can't even quit, or you will starve to death.
Me too, doing all that isn’t why I signed up for this career.
I consider my job to be being a skilled practitioner that develops solutions for complex problems using technology. New technology is available to allow me to do that for my employer and potentially many others. This does not worry me, but does demonstrate I have learning to do. I have set out on a journey to do that learning, and found it pleasant so far. I have enjoyed the changes it provides to my development workflow and find myself more productive.
Times always change, but being useful and providing answers will continue to provide value to business and society, and if one wants to focus on that over the minutiae of programming, they will probably have a much better time as things change more and faster.
Times always change, but being useful and providing answers will continue to provide value to business and society, and if one wants to focus on that over the minutiae of programming, they will probably have a much better time as things change more and faster.
I've worked in software development for over 25 years and made a decision last year to change careers. It will take a long time and I will reduce my number of days working as a dev as the other career ramps up. Step one is some online training starting this month and then some volunteer work in my new field.
What career are you transitioning to?
Counselling. I won't be a psychologist or anything but there's a need for counselors. At first, I'll be volunteering with a phone and text based crisis support organisation (https://www.lifeline.org.au/). Eventually, I hope to open my own counselling service but that will be a few years down the track.
Curious if you would share what that new career is.
Counselling. I won't be a psychologist or anything but there's a need for counselors. At first, I'll be volunteering with a phone and text based crisis support organisation (https://www.lifeline.org.au/). Eventually, I hope to open my own counselling service but that will be a few years down the track.
Ha ha, Akash Bobba, Edward Coristine, Luke Farritor, Gautier Cole Killian, Gavin Kliger, and Ethan Shaotran want to be fired.
This isn’t directly related, but close enough. I used to be bullish on tech, thinking it would secure and streamline business flows.
But now after decades in risk management, I’ve seen firsthand that tech alone doesn’t solve much - the real challenges are people, process, and execution.
Even with the best tools, most (~70%) of digital transformations fail, often due to poor adoption, bad processes, or simple human error.
And after all these efforts... we’re finding more vulnerabilities than ever, maybe showing that security isn’t just about better tech — it’s about people making the right decisions.
The older I get, the more I focus on these challenges, because without solving them, even the best tech/software/code is just another liability.
But now after decades in risk management, I’ve seen firsthand that tech alone doesn’t solve much - the real challenges are people, process, and execution.
Even with the best tools, most (~70%) of digital transformations fail, often due to poor adoption, bad processes, or simple human error.
And after all these efforts... we’re finding more vulnerabilities than ever, maybe showing that security isn’t just about better tech — it’s about people making the right decisions.
The older I get, the more I focus on these challenges, because without solving them, even the best tech/software/code is just another liability.
I am thinking about becoming a personal trainer, with a specialty in fixing the hunched shoulders of other recovering software devs. Tech seems desperate to escape the human body, but it's been pretty gratifying to me to actually use it.
Have also been playing with the idea of "body dev for devs"... let's connect?
What exercises do you recommend?
Broadly speaking, for lower back health, you should look at anterior chain work, e.g. deadlifts or kettlebell swings. For upper back health, some type of overhead pressing (military press, side press, etc.) I would avoid bench press, as it could make forward head posture worse. In general, I am a fan of Kettlebell work, though any modality can accomplish these things.
I would also add some light mobility/stability work, like the reset video another commenter posted here. I like Original Strength a lot, in particular quadruped rocking and bird dogs.
These in combination should massively improve quality of life for desk guys. A close examination of ergonomics is in order, as well. The challenge is finding programming that works for you, but in general software development is pretty flexible in allowing that.
I would also add some light mobility/stability work, like the reset video another commenter posted here. I like Original Strength a lot, in particular quadruped rocking and bird dogs.
These in combination should massively improve quality of life for desk guys. A close examination of ergonomics is in order, as well. The challenge is finding programming that works for you, but in general software development is pretty flexible in allowing that.
100% right - I've been training for +20 years and have indirectly coached a bunch of people around me hoping they would get motivated... My son also joined me 7-8 years ago he's now 20 and feels great working out regularly.
If it helps anyone - training regularly not only builds muscles it destresses you and keeps your mind in check. What used to be stressful is now much easier to manage as I'm able to pass these challenges during a training session.
Kudos to anyone starting out - it's never too late to feel better. Cheers.
If it helps anyone - training regularly not only builds muscles it destresses you and keeps your mind in check. What used to be stressful is now much easier to manage as I'm able to pass these challenges during a training session.
Kudos to anyone starting out - it's never too late to feel better. Cheers.
I love this. I've only been training very seriously for a year and a half or so, so I'm certainly not an expert of any kind. It just makes me feel good! I used to go to the chiropractor all the time, now I just work out and I feel better than I ever have. Instead of temporary fixes, my body works the way it was meant to. I think as a "tech guy" I always underestimated how powerful physical challenges can be for your mental fortitude.
That is interesting I never thought about bench press doing that, and I have that issue but I love bench. I do a lot of other back exercise work so hopefully that and your tips can balance it out. Thanks!
Bench is super fun! It caused enough trouble for me that I just prioritized other things. I'd love to start it up again. I think it I were going to work on it, I would work on an "Easy Strength" program for it, e.g. low reps, high intensity. I would try to build up without soreness or tightness. I'd probably avoid hypertrophy and focus just on neuron development because I still have to keep my laptop shoulders in check.
> ...finding programming that works for you
I see what you did there :D
I see what you did there :D
Face pulls counteract slouched shoulders
Face pulls are great! I also had some good luck with banded rows. Stretching that front side helps too. I like the one where you stick your arms in the doorway and lean forward. The egyptian stretch for shoulders also rules.
In general, I think you could summarize as: stretch out and relax the front side, strengthen the opposing muscles in the back, and fix your posture.
Original Strength was what really broke the dam for me personally. That, combined with overhead shoulder work, has completely changed the way my shoulders sit on my body.
In general, I think you could summarize as: stretch out and relax the front side, strengthen the opposing muscles in the back, and fix your posture.
Original Strength was what really broke the dam for me personally. That, combined with overhead shoulder work, has completely changed the way my shoulders sit on my body.
I can’t express just how much I loathe logging in. Banking is an incredibly boring industry, gluing together one tired system to another is painful and slow. We have so called agile project managers who know so little they must be constantly prompted for the right bits of backlog to be promoted. Lately our performance is being judged on story points, an arbitrary and stupid system controlled by these glassy eyed dullards who don’t understand the products or the processes.
Got a job interview tomorrow in another industry, at this point I would flip burgers instead of work in banking.
Got a job interview tomorrow in another industry, at this point I would flip burgers instead of work in banking.
There will always be a market for smart people who are willing to be fearless of the unknown, willing to be lifelong learners and who are in technology because they can't imagine doing anything else.
I got in to this space because it was fascinating. It still is. I worry a lot of people got in to software because they couldn't decide what else to do while in high school? If that's you, find the overlap between what you like to do, what you are good at and what pays enough for you to live.
I got in to this space because it was fascinating. It still is. I worry a lot of people got in to software because they couldn't decide what else to do while in high school? If that's you, find the overlap between what you like to do, what you are good at and what pays enough for you to live.
The market has never demonstrated caring about any of that, nor does it reward it.
There will always be a market for smart people who are willing to be fearless of the unknown, willing to be lifelong learners and who are in technology because they can't imagine doing anything else.
Nice. Added to https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup
Nice. Added to https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup
> There will always be a market for smart people who are willing to be fearless of the unknown, willing to be lifelong learners and who are in technology because they can't imagine doing anything else.
Eh, that's not really a tangible marketable skill though, or if it is, it can be very hard to identify or convince someone to hire you based on; usually it's quite the opposite. If you're a programmer of some sort normally, and find yourself out of work, it might be quite difficult to get hired for anything else if the local economy isn't absolutely stellar. If anything, you might have a shot at re-training from scratch, getting a categorically different credential, or starting a business, but often an employer would look at your resume and think "This person will jump ship as soon as they can" or "what is any of this supposed to mean to me, I need someone who's good with customers".
It depends on your region as well though. Losing a job in Canada as a software person last month, last year, 2 years ago, would potentially be crippling for a _long_ time, but now it's worse, and it's worse for everyone else too, and you'd be right to be nervous about the future. Bet against easy transferability, and do your best to actually have a compelling case for an alternative when/if the necessity comes around.
Also relying on being fascinated to pay the bills works until it really doesn't, and if a person never needs to contend with that, they should consider themselves lucky. If at any point the work starts getting dull, and duller, and dullest, you've got quite an existential crisis on your hands, and it's important to develop a healthier relationship with the thing that pays the bills before you face homelessness.
Eh, that's not really a tangible marketable skill though, or if it is, it can be very hard to identify or convince someone to hire you based on; usually it's quite the opposite. If you're a programmer of some sort normally, and find yourself out of work, it might be quite difficult to get hired for anything else if the local economy isn't absolutely stellar. If anything, you might have a shot at re-training from scratch, getting a categorically different credential, or starting a business, but often an employer would look at your resume and think "This person will jump ship as soon as they can" or "what is any of this supposed to mean to me, I need someone who's good with customers".
It depends on your region as well though. Losing a job in Canada as a software person last month, last year, 2 years ago, would potentially be crippling for a _long_ time, but now it's worse, and it's worse for everyone else too, and you'd be right to be nervous about the future. Bet against easy transferability, and do your best to actually have a compelling case for an alternative when/if the necessity comes around.
Also relying on being fascinated to pay the bills works until it really doesn't, and if a person never needs to contend with that, they should consider themselves lucky. If at any point the work starts getting dull, and duller, and dullest, you've got quite an existential crisis on your hands, and it's important to develop a healthier relationship with the thing that pays the bills before you face homelessness.
I think the benefit is not that you can literally put "smart & adaptable" on a resume, just that being smart and adaptable makes it easier to land on your feet regardless of how the economic winds are blowing.
As a dual citizen that lived in Canada from 2004-2022, I do hear where you are coming from. I love Canada. I adopted it as my home and lived there until I just couldn't any more.
We're all afraid of the future. That's normal for most people. I have rarely in my career ever bothered with certifications, yet I'm collecting them like a hobby this year.
I don't mean to read in to your comment, but I offer an ear if you want to reach out. There is an email on my HN profile.
We're all afraid of the future. That's normal for most people. I have rarely in my career ever bothered with certifications, yet I'm collecting them like a hobby this year.
I don't mean to read in to your comment, but I offer an ear if you want to reach out. There is an email on my HN profile.
Ya, it's tricky. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's broadly sensible to be afraid for/of the future, but to have tempered expectations for how transferrable or marketable one's skills might be, especially cross industry but even at like a local coffee shop. Work is comically scarce right now, and it's worth being prepared for a surprisingly steep uphill battle if a person's been consistently employed for >5 years.
> I don't mean to read in to your comment, but I offer an ear if you want to reach out. There is an email on my HN profile.
I appreciate the invitation. I know it sounds like I'm in a dark place, but thankfully things eventually worked out... for now, I just came out with some perspective. It has been a repeating cycle of literally 6 months to a year employed and then a year off for the last decade, and you get some time to think if you let yourself take it.
> I don't mean to read in to your comment, but I offer an ear if you want to reach out. There is an email on my HN profile.
I appreciate the invitation. I know it sounds like I'm in a dark place, but thankfully things eventually worked out... for now, I just came out with some perspective. It has been a repeating cycle of literally 6 months to a year employed and then a year off for the last decade, and you get some time to think if you let yourself take it.
When I was struggling, this really helped me:
https://archive.jamesaltucher.com/blog/reinventing-yourself/
I mostly find James Altucher quite annoying. But this is good.
https://archive.jamesaltucher.com/blog/reinventing-yourself/
I mostly find James Altucher quite annoying. But this is good.
I'd love it. I've been shoring up finances, paid off the house, and am ready for an income reduction and whatever pivot presents itself. The signs are all there, from what I can tell.
However, I've also been bearish for like the last 15 years, so these financially conservative moves I have made in reality will portend massive stock market gains, bountiful employment and prosperity. :)
You're welcome.
However, I've also been bearish for like the last 15 years, so these financially conservative moves I have made in reality will portend massive stock market gains, bountiful employment and prosperity. :)
You're welcome.
No salary reviewal in the past 3 years, from full-remote to 80% in presence with 1 weekend of advance notice, 2.5-3 hours of commute each day, impossible to find a place to park the car around the office... so yes... fire me please or perhaps I'll find something else before that happens.
Well, I'm kinda fucked now that cannabis will likely not finish being rescheduled legally. I was hoping to push forward once rescheduling was official with my actual medical certification and go get my commercial drivers' license.
I wanted to do over-the-road trucking, but I consume for PTSD-related insomnia at bed -- that's worse than parking up for the night and downing a suitcase or two of beer and getting up in the morning to drive fully hungover, according to the feds.
Maybe non-CDL hotshotting[1] could be a thing in my future - man with a cargo van sounds adventurous.
[1]"hot shot" cargo - small, expedient packages by truck and van, all those mysterious Sprinters on the highways.
I wanted to do over-the-road trucking, but I consume for PTSD-related insomnia at bed -- that's worse than parking up for the night and downing a suitcase or two of beer and getting up in the morning to drive fully hungover, according to the feds.
Maybe non-CDL hotshotting[1] could be a thing in my future - man with a cargo van sounds adventurous.
[1]"hot shot" cargo - small, expedient packages by truck and van, all those mysterious Sprinters on the highways.
You must be high if you think federal rescheduling will make trucking jobs stop drug testing.
While I'm not a lawyer, if I understand it; once rescheduled as long as I have a prescription for it, it's a valid substance if I "fail" the test. I could be wrong, but that was the interpretation I understand (since you can take opioids and still maintain a CDL - they verify the script after you fail for it).
You’ll be a SAD driver. Doesn’t matter if it’s rescheduled or not, you can’t consume and drive commercially. Period.
Alcohol isn’t scheduled, benzos aren’t schedule 1, doesn’t mean you can be strung out on them while driving. I can write a prescription for all, doesn’t mean shit.
Rescheduling doesn’t make you a protected class, a trucking company isn’t obligated to accept that liability.
I don't know how it works in the states, but in Canada you still get a DUI if driving while high.
MJ stays in your body long after the effects have worn off. You can test positive weeks after consumption.
Any field that requires a certification and cannot be done from a computer is worth looking into.
So... any trade?
Some trades are more physically demanding on the body. I was thinking more along the lines of any field that requires a gov't license like nurse/counselor/barber/pharmacist/CPA/lawyer/administrator/teacher/air traffic controller/operator of some heavy machinery.
last time I looked you had to apply to the ATC academy before turning 31. FYI for those considering the big trade: staring at a rectangular screen for staring at a squircle screen instead. :)
I want to, at least if I get the same kind of severance package that people got in the last round of layoffs.
Stuck in this job at a senior level with >25 years of experience, in part because there is no plan/budget for promotions to principal engineer and in part because only few engineers are left in this country. Working from Europe in a global remote team of a well-known US company in rapid decline. Still profitable though. When interested in an open management position, I have been told that I am too technical for the role - which is kind of right, but I have worked as a tech lead and other people told me to that it would be a good fit for me. I'd just quit, but 100% remote is important because of my current family situation; the work itself is fine; I have a good reputation and am always put into the most interesting projects; it's quite relaxed (no overtime, no on-call) and the salary is ok'ish. The looming severance package in the next round of layoffs, which seems inevitable, would also offer financial security to start a new career, like freelancing. Unfortunately I seem to be too valuable to fire so far, but maybe they just end software development at this location.
Stuck in this job at a senior level with >25 years of experience, in part because there is no plan/budget for promotions to principal engineer and in part because only few engineers are left in this country. Working from Europe in a global remote team of a well-known US company in rapid decline. Still profitable though. When interested in an open management position, I have been told that I am too technical for the role - which is kind of right, but I have worked as a tech lead and other people told me to that it would be a good fit for me. I'd just quit, but 100% remote is important because of my current family situation; the work itself is fine; I have a good reputation and am always put into the most interesting projects; it's quite relaxed (no overtime, no on-call) and the salary is ok'ish. The looming severance package in the next round of layoffs, which seems inevitable, would also offer financial security to start a new career, like freelancing. Unfortunately I seem to be too valuable to fire so far, but maybe they just end software development at this location.
Went from 25 years in this industry, started out writing games in QBasic at 10 (in 1992-ish) and did just about anything in Java, C/++, Python, Javascript.
Just finished framing my own house (1 man build) including foundation starting last summer. I have to put my shingles on next but we're in the middle of an atmospheric river right now. I still have a lot more to go, but I think I'm at 50% now.
I hope to break into the construction game after I finish it since I'll be dead broke after.
Just finished framing my own house (1 man build) including foundation starting last summer. I have to put my shingles on next but we're in the middle of an atmospheric river right now. I still have a lot more to go, but I think I'm at 50% now.
I hope to break into the construction game after I finish it since I'll be dead broke after.
Honestly, I wish i would be replaced by an AI soon, I spent 4 hours today, trying to figure out why my injected html tag is refusing to focus (missing tab index), whilst I ve been doing this job for years now, I think it's enough, let the AI read and write the docs and implement the tech itself, while people can just tell it what they need in general sense.
I m leaning more toward farming nowadays, and doing work that has more impact.
> I m leaning more toward farming
Farmers aren't having a good time, either.
Farmers aren't having a good time, either.
Over 40 and still thinking about getting into a system programming job. Gonna give myself another 3-5 years and then give up.
I don't want to, but it looks like I'm going to be PIP'd for no reason. Looking to move into some sort of analyst role since dev roles have been harder to find recently in my area.
I'm 19, been doing software (as a hobby) for the past five years, should I continue pursuing it or look into something else?
Do things you like. The economic situation will go up and down, but spending your life doing something you dislike will never be worth it.
See my other comment. But, IMHO, you sit at a time where you will be able to make more cool things faster than anyone has ever been able to before. And that if you are a curious person and/or voracious absorber of information, you could become a skilled developer quite quickly and begin to use the tools in more meaningful ways and have a lot of fun and a cool career ahead of you.
I have been doing this about 12 years, and am quite comfortable in my position though. I can understand anxieties for new entrants in an industry that historically has been solid and reliable alongside high-paying. But fundamental shifts in how we work don't necessarily mean gloom. It means innovation on fronts that we haven't had to think about it for a while.
If making things excites you, its a great time to be doing it.
I have been doing this about 12 years, and am quite comfortable in my position though. I can understand anxieties for new entrants in an industry that historically has been solid and reliable alongside high-paying. But fundamental shifts in how we work don't necessarily mean gloom. It means innovation on fronts that we haven't had to think about it for a while.
If making things excites you, its a great time to be doing it.
I wholeheartedly agree with you, but:
> I can understand anxieties for new entrants in an industry that historically has been solid and reliable alongside high-paying
I started in tech in the 90's. Between 1994-2014 I worked _way_ more than most people in most industries because IT (and management) is one of those exempt labor categorizes. High-paying, sure... but when you spend a decade or two working 50-55 hours a week the hourly rate ain't so good. :)
> I can understand anxieties for new entrants in an industry that historically has been solid and reliable alongside high-paying
I started in tech in the 90's. Between 1994-2014 I worked _way_ more than most people in most industries because IT (and management) is one of those exempt labor categorizes. High-paying, sure... but when you spend a decade or two working 50-55 hours a week the hourly rate ain't so good. :)
I guess it depends on how you come in. I was in a position where I came around 2012 with some self taught skills and managed to start out with a 50-60 hour grind but 70k wage and climb slowly into the 250+ range in the ~decade since.
However, I location-optimized. I started in rural Ohio ~2hrs from Detroit, and ended up in New York City after some bouncing to smaller tech cities climbing the ladder. But I think my hourly rate comes out pretty great, even historically to my career beginning, especially for a non-college-grad.
However, I location-optimized. I started in rural Ohio ~2hrs from Detroit, and ended up in New York City after some bouncing to smaller tech cities climbing the ladder. But I think my hourly rate comes out pretty great, even historically to my career beginning, especially for a non-college-grad.
I want to echo some of my sibling comments… none of us believe that GOOD software engineering is going anywhere soon.
If you can pass a fizz-buzz interview screen, that’s a different story.
I would also suggest creating content about to interests. Live coding or explanatory videos that could be useful to somebody else, attract attention to you, and prove you are no AI-fraud if they actually hire you.
Depending on your skill, consulting offers will (probably) come your way without much marketing effort.
If you can pass a fizz-buzz interview screen, that’s a different story.
I would also suggest creating content about to interests. Live coding or explanatory videos that could be useful to somebody else, attract attention to you, and prove you are no AI-fraud if they actually hire you.
Depending on your skill, consulting offers will (probably) come your way without much marketing effort.
Keep doing it, get formal training if you can or better any job getting your foot in the door.
Anyone telling you you'll be replaced by AI soon is delusional.
Anyone telling you you'll be replaced by AI soon is delusional.
I have had recent meetings with management teams that believe this. I mean, yea, some of them are delusional (and not just about AI) but they are so excited about the idea of not having to pay humans any more.
Here's the thing: I see management at software companies salivating with the idea of replacing developers with AI, but where is the value add? Why would companies (especially eneterprise) pay them? for their sales teams or executives? If AI takes over customers can just do it themselves with the in-house IT teams, so developers are likely to be the last impacted if this ever happens.
Oh I fully believe managers think this is just around the corner, but the evidence that it is is just not there. There'll be layoffs and as there are there'll be new opportunities to backfill all the positions when the magic AI doesn't deliver - even if it's just "yes I totally wrote this with AI" while doing normal coding things.
Though I'd say the bigger hallmark it's nowhere near is the more obvious one: code has to work, which AI isn't good at. It's very good at sending emails though - replacing the managers is the more likely thing to happen first. Why have a layer of middle management when scheduling software, AI summaries and agentic tools could empower 1 person to direct multiple teams and where hallucinations or mistakes are more easily corrected since nothing crashes you just have a slightly confused subordinate at times?
Though I'd say the bigger hallmark it's nowhere near is the more obvious one: code has to work, which AI isn't good at. It's very good at sending emails though - replacing the managers is the more likely thing to happen first. Why have a layer of middle management when scheduling software, AI summaries and agentic tools could empower 1 person to direct multiple teams and where hallucinations or mistakes are more easily corrected since nothing crashes you just have a slightly confused subordinate at times?
Wait, maybe I do want an AI-powered project manager than proactively manages risk.....
At Sun, instead of firing incompetent executives, the would promote them to "Vice President in Charge of Looking for a New Job".
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Fired from being retired.
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