7.7 magnitude earthquake hits Southeast Asia, affecting Myanmar and Thailand(twitter.com)
twitter.com
7.7 magnitude earthquake hits Southeast Asia, affecting Myanmar and Thailand
https://twitter.com/TaraBull808/status/1905534938558157139
118 comments
shakemap: https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/us7000pn9s...
Mandalay looks to be almost exactly in the center of the worst of it...
Mandalay looks to be almost exactly in the center of the worst of it...
That straight line in the map doesn't look like the maps for any earthquakes I've felt. It looks like it was on the Sagaing Fault which is a different type of fault from the ones I've experienced.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagaing_Fault
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagaing_Fault
2023 Turkey-Syria Earthquake has a ShakeMap similar to this event [1]; We often think of the epicenter as a single point in earth where the energy then radiates outward. In reality, a fault is more similar to line [2]. The energy radiates outward around the entire fault line.
(Note: since earthquake magnitude is correlated with the amount of area moved, it is safe to assume that larger earthquake will have larger fault rupture)
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Turkey%E2%80%93Syria_eart... [2] https://earth-planets-space.springeropen.com/articles/10.118...
(Note: since earthquake magnitude is correlated with the amount of area moved, it is safe to assume that larger earthquake will have larger fault rupture)
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Turkey%E2%80%93Syria_eart... [2] https://earth-planets-space.springeropen.com/articles/10.118...
Interesting, the idea that a fault is a more of a line source makes sense it is hard for me to think of a way to have a single point source slip with enough energy. I guess I've thought in subduction faults the depth of the slip might explain why there is a point source. For example in the Pacific Northwest the earthquake from the Juan de Fuca plate look to be substantially deeper than this one. (50km vs 10km) Of course I expect the depth from today to be preliminary and be adjusted later, I can see the extent of red region in the shakemap changed to be longer from when I looked at it an hour or two ago.
Do you know if the line source model comes from having more and better seismographs or has there been a change in how people think about the motion of a fault in an earthquake?
Do you know if the line source model comes from having more and better seismographs or has there been a change in how people think about the motion of a fault in an earthquake?
quoting from the 'Hazard' section:
> The length of fault running 260 km (160 mi) from 19.2°N to 21.5°N, on the Meiktila segment, is designated a seismic gap due to the absence of major earthquake ruptures since at least 1897. At least 2 m (6 ft 7 in) of slip has accumulated along the fault corresponding to a magnitude 7.9 earthquake.
Science did pretty well here with the magnitude. Wonder how much more research is needed to be able to predict an event let's say a full minute before it happens...
> The length of fault running 260 km (160 mi) from 19.2°N to 21.5°N, on the Meiktila segment, is designated a seismic gap due to the absence of major earthquake ruptures since at least 1897. At least 2 m (6 ft 7 in) of slip has accumulated along the fault corresponding to a magnitude 7.9 earthquake.
Science did pretty well here with the magnitude. Wonder how much more research is needed to be able to predict an event let's say a full minute before it happens...
> Estimated economic losses are 6-70% GDP of Burma.
6-70% holy crap what a range.
6-70% holy crap what a range.
Probably meant 60-70%
It's worth noting that the scale of the graph above it has a _logrithmic_ scale so I do think it is actually 6% to 70%.
That page is estimating fatalities of 10k to 100k people and economic losses of 10B to 100B USD.
(For context: Myanmar GDP is about 67B USD, according to Wolfram Alpha.)
That page is estimating fatalities of 10k to 100k people and economic losses of 10B to 100B USD.
(For context: Myanmar GDP is about 67B USD, according to Wolfram Alpha.)
I think they are making that prediction from nothing more than their seismographs, the population density and GDP at the affected locations.
If so, it isn’t surprising there’s a lot of uncertainty in their estimates.
Also look at the histogram with of “Estimated Fatalities”. The highlighted bar is for “10,000 to 100,000”
If so, it isn’t surprising there’s a lot of uncertainty in their estimates.
Also look at the histogram with of “Estimated Fatalities”. The highlighted bar is for “10,000 to 100,000”
60-70% loss in GDP would mean the literal end of the country, it's a ludicrously large figure no one could ever rebuild from. This is a 7.7 earthquake; it probably is 6–7% GBP which is still significant.
It’s only $40B, Myanmar is exceptionally poor. For example, AAPL’s net profit is higher than Myanmar’s GDP.
I’m pretty sure China can dig around in their couch cushions and help them out, the military junta is heavily reliant on China already.
Probably the ‘shadow GDP’ of Myanmar from heroin and scam call centers is higher than the official GDP, but that’s pure speculation on my part.
I’m pretty sure China can dig around in their couch cushions and help them out, the military junta is heavily reliant on China already.
Probably the ‘shadow GDP’ of Myanmar from heroin and scam call centers is higher than the official GDP, but that’s pure speculation on my part.
Not Myarmar, but in Cambodia scams are soon or already larger business than official GDP
https://thediplomat.com/2024/09/laos-and-cambodia-dont-inclu...
https://thediplomat.com/2024/09/laos-and-cambodia-dont-inclu...
it is possbile , we are at literal end of the country with Junta bombing whatever they want and Revolution forces fighting to save the country .
[deleted]
60% loss can be recouped by 10 years of compounding 5% growth.
Mathematically valid, but...
If Myanmar had a stable and reliably growing economy, the world would be a different place.
Turning Myanmar into a country with a stable economy that could grow at 5% annually would be worthy of a Nobel Prize in economics.
Practically, recovery costs in the neighborhood of 60% of Myanmar's GDP represents many decades of development. Or enormous foreign aid from China. I'm not sure how valuable Myanmar is to China though.
If Myanmar had a stable and reliably growing economy, the world would be a different place.
Turning Myanmar into a country with a stable economy that could grow at 5% annually would be worthy of a Nobel Prize in economics.
Practically, recovery costs in the neighborhood of 60% of Myanmar's GDP represents many decades of development. Or enormous foreign aid from China. I'm not sure how valuable Myanmar is to China though.
We almost had that chance back in 2010-2020.. only if coup and COVID didn't happened..
That's assuming otherwise zero growth, or other nations standing still or stuff like that.
Also, 10 years of constant 5% growth is a lot to ask for in general. Maybe not impossible, but really hard. Now, think that you need to have 5% growth in the first year after the earthquake, in a devastated nation. Infrastructure destroyed, people killed. Lots.
It sounds pretty near to impossible.
These numbers have some meaning you know. It's easy to type "5% growth". Much, much harder to actually achieve it.
How is the dead part of the population being replaced in this scenario? Who is achieving this growth if the population is decimated?
Also, 10 years of constant 5% growth is a lot to ask for in general. Maybe not impossible, but really hard. Now, think that you need to have 5% growth in the first year after the earthquake, in a devastated nation. Infrastructure destroyed, people killed. Lots.
It sounds pretty near to impossible.
These numbers have some meaning you know. It's easy to type "5% growth". Much, much harder to actually achieve it.
How is the dead part of the population being replaced in this scenario? Who is achieving this growth if the population is decimated?
I'm not sure about any of these questions, I am just pointing out how wrong it is to suggest that a -60% economic setback is historically fatal. The economy of Myanmar increased 8-fold in the last 30 years.
60% loss in GDP is roughly 60% loss in population. You don't recoup citizens in 10 years with 5% growth.
I hope not... I'd rather this was indeed 6-70 with a mode much closer to 6 than 70
It also appears to have gone through the heart of Tatmadaw territory [1].
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myanmar_civil_war_(2021%E2%8...
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myanmar_civil_war_(2021%E2%8...
Yeah several Junta building destroyed including notorious tataroo military Air field which is responsible for bombing several hundred of innocent civilian's.
How is the state of the various other bridges beside Saigang (eg. Chauk, Pakokku, Magway, Pyay, Tigyaing)?
Much of Saigang, Rakhine, and Kachin might be cut off from the rest of Myanmar, dramatically affecting logistics (though I think land logistics to Rakhine have already largely ended before the earthquake)
Also, I hope your family hasn't been drastically impacted.
Much of Saigang, Rakhine, and Kachin might be cut off from the rest of Myanmar, dramatically affecting logistics (though I think land logistics to Rakhine have already largely ended before the earthquake)
Also, I hope your family hasn't been drastically impacted.
That shakemap looks really suspicious, relative to the damage being reported in Thailand, especially Bangkok. 600 miles away (~1000 km) and the shakemap's reporting numbers like 3 to 4 on the intensity scale. When they reported the skyscraper collapsing in Thailand, at first I thought it was Chiang Mai near the border of Myanmar, not Bangkok 600 miles away. For Americans, that's like the big one hits the Cali fault, and skyscrapers are falling down in Salt Lake City or Phoenix.
Wonder whether that's just automated simulation output, rather than actual measurements from stations? Numbers 3 and 4:
3 - Felt noticeably indoors, especially in tops of buildings, yet many do not even notice there's an earthquake.
4 - Felt indoors by many, felt outside by few. Sensation like heavy truck striking a building.
Bangkok's reporting sensations, crowd behavior, and events more like a 6 to 7. Everybody runs, furniture moves, plaster falls, considerable damage to poorly built (partially finished) structures. A 3-4 is like, you barely notice, or think a really heavy vehicle just crashed or something. Not, everybody in town runs in panic, describes all the ceilings collapsing, cracks in walls afterward. [1][2][3][4]
Expect there's probably going to be some re-evaluation of the magnitude and scale of the earthquake based on what was actually reported by observers, cameras, and damage afterward. They're reporting slight damage and cracks even in relatively well constructed buildings.
Edit: This story from ChannelNewsAsia in Singapore has camera footage from somebody on the ground near the skyscraper collapse. Visibly shaking the camera holder. [5]
[1] Intensity, Text Descriptions: https://sciencefest.indiana.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/m...
[2] Semi-common Cone Chart with Energy Comparison: https://basecampconnect.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/eartq...
[3] Japanese Chart with Pictures: https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1400/1*Ca_yV0l_zkWiFtg...
[4] Another Picture Chart: https://d9-wret.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/assets/palladium/...
[5] ChannelNewsAsia, https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/massive-quake-kills-nea...
Wonder whether that's just automated simulation output, rather than actual measurements from stations? Numbers 3 and 4:
3 - Felt noticeably indoors, especially in tops of buildings, yet many do not even notice there's an earthquake.
4 - Felt indoors by many, felt outside by few. Sensation like heavy truck striking a building.
Bangkok's reporting sensations, crowd behavior, and events more like a 6 to 7. Everybody runs, furniture moves, plaster falls, considerable damage to poorly built (partially finished) structures. A 3-4 is like, you barely notice, or think a really heavy vehicle just crashed or something. Not, everybody in town runs in panic, describes all the ceilings collapsing, cracks in walls afterward. [1][2][3][4]
Expect there's probably going to be some re-evaluation of the magnitude and scale of the earthquake based on what was actually reported by observers, cameras, and damage afterward. They're reporting slight damage and cracks even in relatively well constructed buildings.
Edit: This story from ChannelNewsAsia in Singapore has camera footage from somebody on the ground near the skyscraper collapse. Visibly shaking the camera holder. [5]
[1] Intensity, Text Descriptions: https://sciencefest.indiana.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/m...
[2] Semi-common Cone Chart with Energy Comparison: https://basecampconnect.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/eartq...
[3] Japanese Chart with Pictures: https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1400/1*Ca_yV0l_zkWiFtg...
[4] Another Picture Chart: https://d9-wret.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/assets/palladium/...
[5] ChannelNewsAsia, https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/massive-quake-kills-nea...
Bangkok is built on a muddy floodplain. The soft ground accentuates the ground motion by the jello-wobble resonance effect. High-rise buildings that do not have seismic isolation or counter-weight damping (like Taipei 101) will suffer dramatic whiplash shaking at the top.
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/tuned-mass-damper-of-tai...
Some cities closer to the epicenter, such as Chiang Mai, are also on floodplains, but have many fewer high-rise buildings. Some smaller condo blocks there have been deemed unsafe after the earthquake.
https://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/citynews/general/following...
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/tuned-mass-damper-of-tai...
Some cities closer to the epicenter, such as Chiang Mai, are also on floodplains, but have many fewer high-rise buildings. Some smaller condo blocks there have been deemed unsafe after the earthquake.
https://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/citynews/general/following...
USGS Shakemap intensity is based on the peak ground acceleration (PGA). It has been known that, in some cases, PGA does not correlates well with structural damages. The peak ground velocity (PGV) has better correlation with structural damages [1].
Even so, they are only describing the peak values, it does not describe the ground motion frequency or other ground motion characteristic [4]. It is hard to compress a complex phenomenon into single value.
My colleagues suspect that the soil condition in Bangkok (soft soil and basin) and the distance from the epicenter amplifies long period/low frequency content of earthquake waves, making skycraper to be more vulnerable to damages. Example of basin effect is 1985 Mexico City Earthquake [2] and example of long period effect is the 2011 Tohoku EQ [3]
(Note: Magnitude value would probably be stable, they are based on the energy released by the earth (Moment Magnitude), Intensity is just the on-the-ground observation of the earthquake and it can be subjective.) [1] https://www.cwa.gov.tw/Data/service/hottopic/20191213_SC_New... ; https://www.ncdr.nat.gov.tw/CEOCworkshop/cwb_2.pdf [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_Mexico_City_earthquake [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_period_ground_motion [4] https://www.iitk.ac.in/nicee/wcee/article/WCEE2012_5499.pdf
Even so, they are only describing the peak values, it does not describe the ground motion frequency or other ground motion characteristic [4]. It is hard to compress a complex phenomenon into single value.
My colleagues suspect that the soil condition in Bangkok (soft soil and basin) and the distance from the epicenter amplifies long period/low frequency content of earthquake waves, making skycraper to be more vulnerable to damages. Example of basin effect is 1985 Mexico City Earthquake [2] and example of long period effect is the 2011 Tohoku EQ [3]
(Note: Magnitude value would probably be stable, they are based on the energy released by the earth (Moment Magnitude), Intensity is just the on-the-ground observation of the earthquake and it can be subjective.) [1] https://www.cwa.gov.tw/Data/service/hottopic/20191213_SC_New... ; https://www.ncdr.nat.gov.tw/CEOCworkshop/cwb_2.pdf [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_Mexico_City_earthquake [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_period_ground_motion [4] https://www.iitk.ac.in/nicee/wcee/article/WCEE2012_5499.pdf
The geometry of the fault may have something to do with it, maybe some constructive interference at play...?
Casualties rising so far
Estimated to be thousands.
People trapped inside collapsed building and calling for help .
https://www.reddit.com/r/myanmar/s/IlrSbGtqfV
https://www.reddit.com/r/myanmar/s/SrpgBsfO8l
https://www.reddit.com/r/myanmar/s/IlrSbGtqfV
https://www.reddit.com/r/myanmar/s/SrpgBsfO8l
Death toll in Mandalay 14 so far.
A friend from Mandalay report that aftershock are still going on ( 3 hr later) . Her house is totally collapsed and she don't know where to stay. She managed to get out just in time , only injury she had was kettle fall on her legs.
More videos from Mandalay
https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=96191531281452...
https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=96191531281452...
> A construction in Pathunam collapsed.
Damn, I was staying in a hotel right next to there only 6 weeks ago.
I remember getting to the hotel and seeing warnings not to use the elevator in case of earthquakes.
Damn, I was staying in a hotel right next to there only 6 weeks ago.
I remember getting to the hotel and seeing warnings not to use the elevator in case of earthquakes.
[deleted]
Compilation
https://youtu.be/197HVsjdsGU?si=jhbLyvY3GTDu-tQK
Another compilation - https://x.com/VertigoWarrior/status/1905613070636122443
Tracking-free link: Compilation https://youtu.be/197HVsjdsGU
[deleted]
Death toll over 40 do far in Mandalay.
distance from Mandalay to Bangkok: ~580 km
Yeah quite strange that it effects here strong and looks like death toll gonna high here too. Huge construction collapse,80 construction workers missing.. from the video.. not many will survive and that's all happened in Bangkok
According to Google Maps "measure distance" tool it's ~630 miles, or ~1000 km. I am very surprised it was felt so strongly at such a distance.
I’m in Bangkok right now, didn’t even think about it being an earthquake and thought my building was coming down. Sprinted out of the building, watching our rooftop pool collapse and rain down debris and water.
I think that’s the most scared I’ve ever been, thinking that was it for me.
I think that’s the most scared I’ve ever been, thinking that was it for me.
> Sprinted out of the building, watching our rooftop pool collapse and rain down debris and water.
Drowning multiple floors above sea level due to an earth quake. That’s insane!
Drowning multiple floors above sea level due to an earth quake. That’s insane!
[deleted]
Mega quake centered on a major city in a developing economy state. Information is slow to come out because of the Junta no doubt but the death toll is likely to be far far larger then folks initially are reading.
So bizarre to see a lot more news coverage about places like Bangkok when the epicenter was on a large city in another country. But it's a reminder that information flows more slowly out of these closed societies
So bizarre to see a lot more news coverage about places like Bangkok when the epicenter was on a large city in another country. But it's a reminder that information flows more slowly out of these closed societies
Bangkok has many tall buildings, so it was probably felt a lot more strongly here than other places closer to the epicenter. I was on the 32nd floor and saw and heard large cracks forming in the walls.. definitely a scary experience. They just let us back into the building, but not sure I'll stay here for a few days.
I’m glad you are ok. Stay safe!
The quake was in northern Myanmar, so the major city (Yangon) in the south was apparently not too badly affected.
Early reports indicate significant damage in Naypyidaw, the new and thus not particularly large capital, and one spectacular but isolated construction site collapse in Bangkok, Thailand, quite far from the epicenter. I presume most of the damage will be in country towns near the epicenter, but Myanmar is dysfunctional at best of times and roiled by active civil war right now, so it'll take time for information to filter out.
Early reports indicate significant damage in Naypyidaw, the new and thus not particularly large capital, and one spectacular but isolated construction site collapse in Bangkok, Thailand, quite far from the epicenter. I presume most of the damage will be in country towns near the epicenter, but Myanmar is dysfunctional at best of times and roiled by active civil war right now, so it'll take time for information to filter out.
> the new and thus not particularly large capital
Naypyidaw (3rd largest city) has almost 1 million people now.
Furthermore, the epicenter was right outside Mandalay (2nd largest city), which has a population of almost 2 million.
In addition, the epicenter is also smack dab in the Central Lowlands, where much of Myanmar's population lives. Around 7-10 million people must live within 200 miles of the epicenter.
Naypyidaw (3rd largest city) has almost 1 million people now.
Furthermore, the epicenter was right outside Mandalay (2nd largest city), which has a population of almost 2 million.
In addition, the epicenter is also smack dab in the Central Lowlands, where much of Myanmar's population lives. Around 7-10 million people must live within 200 miles of the epicenter.
To add on (and not to pile on you), I know you were trying to be sympathetic, but every death is a tragedy tbh.
Not your fault of course, but some tragedies are worth giving a moment of silence for.
Not your fault of course, but some tragedies are worth giving a moment of silence for.
Felt it in Northern Thailand, I've lived through many earthquakes around here but this was on completely different level - usually I notice some open doors and hanging things shaking and can slightly feel it, but today I felt worried if my house is going to crash down and all my neighbors ran to the street. (our houses are built on ~1m stilts to protect from floods)
Sadly didn't receive a notification from Android this time, last time I got it about ten seconds before the shaking began.
Sadly didn't receive a notification from Android this time, last time I got it about ten seconds before the shaking began.
I would at least expect a Cell Broadcast to be deployed (The TelCo Authorities/Providers and Disaster Management Authority has been testing it last year and expected to be deployed in Q2 2025). According to the press conference, the system can be activated, but it wasn't until 2:30 PM that the Disaster Management Authority decided to ask the TelCo to send SMS (not via Cell Broadcast). In my case, it wasn't until 7:40 PM that I received guidance from the authority.
Some people are claiming that they received alerts from other apps that target Thai people, such as gaming app, novel reading app and call screening app. Even the SNS account of online gambling site (illegal in Thailand) managed to provide guidance faster than the government's own response. Red Tapes on triggering the warning means no one was even sure what is going on, and has to resort for self-reporting or SNS.
Some people are claiming that they received alerts from other apps that target Thai people, such as gaming app, novel reading app and call screening app. Even the SNS account of online gambling site (illegal in Thailand) managed to provide guidance faster than the government's own response. Red Tapes on triggering the warning means no one was even sure what is going on, and has to resort for self-reporting or SNS.
Google turned it off after the mishap in Brazil, iirc.
Looks like they only disabled it in Brazil [1].
1. https://www.theverge.com/news/613572/google-earthquake-detec...
1. https://www.theverge.com/news/613572/google-earthquake-detec...
Did they ever follow up on the outcome of that investigation and report on what caused the false detection?
The page is still up: https://crisisresponse.google/android-alerts/
And according to some Googling, they had only disabled it in Brazil while investigating why the false alarm happened.
And according to some Googling, they had only disabled it in Brazil while investigating why the false alarm happened.
Is that even slightly proportional? One wrong warning- vs 1 right..
Two years ago Turks didn't receive notifications either. I wonder what is not working in Android.
Turkey case was different and wilfully evil intentioned. They knowingly disabled base stations.
One of the craziest things - water falling out of the high rise building's roof top pool: https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1jlpma0/...
Video of building under construction collapse:
Close up: https://x.com/nongmeaw33/status/1905511502435791007
Distant: https://x.com/120119_/status/1905515797234991340
Close up: https://x.com/nongmeaw33/status/1905511502435791007
Distant: https://x.com/120119_/status/1905515797234991340
Holy F2k. Hope nobody was seriously injured - as unlike as this hope may be.
It’s extremely surreal to be sitting in sun, half way around the world, drinking coffee and watching these images.
It’s amazing and frightening at the same time - the disconnect between the folks affected by this disaster and me scrolling around here at HN.
At the same, the immediacy of world events and the inability to actual do anything about them.
For many this was their last day and may their rest in peace, tomorrow could be ours. Once again nature shows us who is boss.
It’s extremely surreal to be sitting in sun, half way around the world, drinking coffee and watching these images.
It’s amazing and frightening at the same time - the disconnect between the folks affected by this disaster and me scrolling around here at HN.
At the same, the immediacy of world events and the inability to actual do anything about them.
For many this was their last day and may their rest in peace, tomorrow could be ours. Once again nature shows us who is boss.
81 construction workers trapped and 3 passed away [0].
Sadly, hundreds of similar incidents happened across the border in Myanmar, as the epicenter is right outside of Myanmar's 2nd largest city.
[0] - https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g0gr8gl0wo
Sadly, hundreds of similar incidents happened across the border in Myanmar, as the epicenter is right outside of Myanmar's 2nd largest city.
[0] - https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g0gr8gl0wo
>the inability to actual do anything about them
That is called trained helplessness. You could be on a flight today if you want. You could be donating to relief in minutes without leaving your computer chair.
That is called trained helplessness. You could be on a flight today if you want. You could be donating to relief in minutes without leaving your computer chair.
I can give money to an anonymous organization that might or might not use that money to help the people on the ground.
But then I’ve scrolled on in HN (or wherever) and the next disaster has happened - the same feeling of disconnect.
The immediacy of social media makes everyone my neighbour - that’s what I was trying to say.
But then I’ve scrolled on in HN (or wherever) and the next disaster has happened - the same feeling of disconnect.
The immediacy of social media makes everyone my neighbour - that’s what I was trying to say.
I'm just saying that immediacy doesn't have be accompanied with helplessness.
I was wondering about the collapsed building in Thailand that was under construction.
Do civil engineers take precautions for under-construction buildings? Do they minimize the risk somehow? I'm guessing there's inevitably a window during which an earthquake would be catastrophic, even if the end product is earthquake resistant.
Do civil engineers take precautions for under-construction buildings? Do they minimize the risk somehow? I'm guessing there's inevitably a window during which an earthquake would be catastrophic, even if the end product is earthquake resistant.
It's not inevitable by any means. There's definitely a way to build buildings so that at any point they are as resistant to earthquakes as they will be at the end.
Actually I think it would take special effort to make it so it's vulnerable during construction but safe at the end.
For example, do you think the foundation of the building is somehow weaker during construction but gets stronger at the end? How could that possibly work?
Actually I think it would take special effort to make it so it's vulnerable during construction but safe at the end.
For example, do you think the foundation of the building is somehow weaker during construction but gets stronger at the end? How could that possibly work?
Concrete foundations get stronger as the concrete cures (around a month).
Framing is much more resistant to collapse once you put sheathing on it, a roof, etc. Before that it is easier to fall over.
A half built wood frame wall only supported at one end is like a wet noodle if you don't put in some temporary braces.
Framing is much more resistant to collapse once you put sheathing on it, a roof, etc. Before that it is easier to fall over.
A half built wood frame wall only supported at one end is like a wet noodle if you don't put in some temporary braces.
The concrete is supported by formwork and props until it cures, which appear to have been removed on all floors, suggesting that the concrete structure was now complete and the building is about as strong as it ever will be.
The collapse must have been due to a design or construction mistake.
The collapse must have been due to a design or construction mistake.
There are a number of post concrete cured enhancements to buildings that improve earthquake resistance that may not yet have been added (if planned) .. antisway damping, additional bracing and or bridge like cabling, etc.
There's stuff like tuned mass dampers that reduce sway. The top floors would not necessarily be completely attached either. Can see them falling and taking out the lower levels with them.
It doesn't seem like the state of being under construction would have been the problem. It's a reinforced, poured-in-place concrete building. It should be as strong in that state as it would ever have been. Suggests a design error.
[deleted]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Sagaing_earthquake
I'm in Hanoi, also about 1,000km from the epicenter (similar to Bangkok). Some people apparently felt tremors and building fixtures shaking, but nothing as serious as the videos I saw in Bangkok.
I'm in Hanoi, also about 1,000km from the epicenter (similar to Bangkok). Some people apparently felt tremors and building fixtures shaking, but nothing as serious as the videos I saw in Bangkok.
I'm living in Thailand for almost 40 years and this is the first time I have a nausea due to earthquake even it is very far from its origin. I can't imagine how much catastrophe the Myanmar has from this earthquake.
The video of a rooftop swimming pool waterfalling from a highrise building is wild ( https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/c20d0nxr2lmo ).
Nothing compared to the high rise collapse though :/
Nothing compared to the high rise collapse though :/
That is big. Praying the people are okay and safe from Tsunamis. The Netflix documentary about the Boxing Day 2004 disaster is excellent.
The epicenter was in the center of Myanmar, far from the ocean, so shouldn't be any risk of tsunamis. But starting to see some pictures. The fatalities are going to be a lot higher than being reported now.
That is very sad, at least there's no tsunamis to be thankful for. It would be so scary to be inside a building collapsing. Not the best way to go, and the rescue and rebuild is difficult.
I am living in Saigon (Ho Chi Minh City) Vietnam and today around one or so,a bit later, my wife was taking a nap and I was working in the computer. The building started to shake, I live in a tower.
I told my wife: it is an earthquake, did you notice? Look: I pointed to the frame of a door so that she could hold herself there to notice the shaking. Lean on it and do not move. She said: no, it is you. I turn back: look at the hanging lamp. The lamp was zig-zagging lol. Actually you can throw a nuclear bomb when my wife is taking a nap and she would continue sleeping. She is so insensitive for those things...
So when we went downstairs like 30 or 40 more people had also left their homes. It could also be noticed from Hanoi.
Here people noticed it in district 3, 10, Thu Duc, Binh Thanh and District 2 at least.
It was just replicas but hey, noticeable.
I told my wife: it is an earthquake, did you notice? Look: I pointed to the frame of a door so that she could hold herself there to notice the shaking. Lean on it and do not move. She said: no, it is you. I turn back: look at the hanging lamp. The lamp was zig-zagging lol. Actually you can throw a nuclear bomb when my wife is taking a nap and she would continue sleeping. She is so insensitive for those things...
So when we went downstairs like 30 or 40 more people had also left their homes. It could also be noticed from Hanoi.
Here people noticed it in district 3, 10, Thu Duc, Binh Thanh and District 2 at least.
It was just replicas but hey, noticeable.
Incredibly sad. The people of Myanmar were already suffering a terrible civil war.
The tremors were felt all the way in Saigon and Delhi as well, so this was a fairly massive earthquake.
Hope everyone affected at ground zero in Saigang can get the help they need.
Hope everyone affected at ground zero in Saigang can get the help they need.
It is important to realize that the greatest effect and harm of a major disaster is often the result, not of the shaking, but rather in the social unrest that results from a government's inability to cope with the disaster. Given Myanmar's problematic government, that may be the case here. If you want examples, consider the Managua earthquake that led to the overthrow of Somoza or the 1976 Tangshan earthquake which contributed to the cultural turmoil accompanying the death of Mao that led to the end of the Cultural Revolution.
The earthquake seemed to be originated from Myanmar, but most reporting from Thailand. Is it because they are affected less?
> but most reporting from Thailand
Myanmar is on the border between a failed state and one in civil war [1]. Put simply, we will probably never know the fatality county because there is nobody who can reliably do the counting.
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myanmar_civil_war_(2021%E2%8...
Myanmar is on the border between a failed state and one in civil war [1]. Put simply, we will probably never know the fatality county because there is nobody who can reliably do the counting.
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myanmar_civil_war_(2021%E2%8...
I think Thailand is much more integrated to the West in all sorts of ways. And Myanmar is deep into a civil war and that I assume reduces greatly the number of foreign journalists, foreigners in general, social media access, etc.
Burma/Myanmar has been largely ruled by the junta since 1962, with brief periods of semi-stability in between, and it has largely been isolated from the rest the world.
Up until mid-2000's, the entire country was reliant on a single – modem – internet connection to Singapore (the Singaporean government had a long history of propping up successions of military governments in Myanmar until China arrived on the scene).
Up until mid-2000's, the entire country was reliant on a single – modem – internet connection to Singapore (the Singaporean government had a long history of propping up successions of military governments in Myanmar until China arrived on the scene).
> Up until mid-2000's, the entire country was reliant on a single – modem – internet connection to Singapore
Myanmar’s internet infrastructure was limited and tightly controlled, but it was not dependent on a single modem connection to Singapore. In the 1990s-2000s, Myanmar had rudimentary internet via satellite links and state-controlled gateways. The first internet services were introduced in the 2000s, primarily via Myanmar Posts and Telecommunications (MPT), often routed through various international satellite providers.
> the Singaporean government had a long history of propping up successions of military governments in Myanmar until China arrived on the scene
Singapore has historically maintained business and diplomatic ties with Myanmar, also during military rule; and yes, some unscrupulous Singapore-based firms sell arms to the junta. But saying Singapore propped up military regimes suggests active political or military support by the government, which is factually incorrect. Most regional engagement with Myanmar, including by Singapore, was done through ASEAN’s policy of non-interference.
Myanmar’s internet infrastructure was limited and tightly controlled, but it was not dependent on a single modem connection to Singapore. In the 1990s-2000s, Myanmar had rudimentary internet via satellite links and state-controlled gateways. The first internet services were introduced in the 2000s, primarily via Myanmar Posts and Telecommunications (MPT), often routed through various international satellite providers.
> the Singaporean government had a long history of propping up successions of military governments in Myanmar until China arrived on the scene
Singapore has historically maintained business and diplomatic ties with Myanmar, also during military rule; and yes, some unscrupulous Singapore-based firms sell arms to the junta. But saying Singapore propped up military regimes suggests active political or military support by the government, which is factually incorrect. Most regional engagement with Myanmar, including by Singapore, was done through ASEAN’s policy of non-interference.
You are painting an unnecessarily rosy and overly romanticised picture of the actual history.
> In the 1990s-2000s, Myanmar had rudimentary internet via satellite links and state-controlled gateways.
Satellite internet did not exist in the 1990s and in the early 2000s. Iridium, the first commercial provider of internet access via satellites, began the deployment of the satellites in 1997 and did not complete the deployment until 2005 – when global coverage was achieved. The 1st generation of Iridium suffered from very slow speeds, poor reception inside buildings, and – most importantly – required prohibitively expensive equipment to connect to the satellites. Such equipment was entirely out of reach for any impoverished country, such as Myanmar at the time.
Myanmar Post started offering email service (not full internet service!) around 1997, where the email was stored on a central server and was routinely delayed because each email had to be reviewed by a junta-appointed censor before being relayed via a modem (even if it was IDSN, it was still a single modem connection) to an ISP in Singapore. Burmese hotels did not have websites back then; they had email addresses hosted on that central server instead. Extremely limited internet access was only allowed via internet cafes, which were prohibitively expensive to the locals (deliberately) who were presented with the sanitised, local Burmese «intranet» and access to a very limited number of global websites that the junta had sanctioned. I have the second-hand experience of this as a close friend of mine was travelling in Burma at the time, and our communication was severely hampered, partially for this reason.
> But saying Singapore propped up military regimes suggests active political or military support by the government, which is factually incorrect.
This is factually correct, the SG government is absolutely complicit, and it is the sole reason why the military junta has managed to survive.
SG has been the largest economic investor in Myanmar since the crackdown of the 8888 Uprising in 1988, and the SG government semi-openly or covertly has supported the military rule since then, with Lee Kuan Yew going on to state in 1996 that Burma could only be ruled by the military suggesting democracy activist Aung San Suu Kyi stay «behind a fence, and be a symbol»[0]. For the record, Lee Kuan Yew and Ne Win were also friends since 1962 – at least for a few decades.
Without the SG economic investment and the SG government support, the junta would have collapsed decades ago. This does not include other shenanigans, the SG government has been involved in, which has included providing a safe haven to former dictators Ne Win and Than Shwe, allowing them and their cronies to siphon the money they had embezzled from their people into Singaporean banks. The Singaporean banks have also been implicated in money laundering for Burmese heroin from the Golden Triangle as well as for their ties to Lo Hsing Han, which resulted in the US sanctioning Singaporean companies with connections to Lo. Since 2021 (the latest coup), Singapore has been a major equipment supplier for the junta's weapons factories, allowing the junta to continue on with their dirty business today. The list can go on and on. This does not include other shady shenanigans that the SG businesses, with the tacit approval of their government, have been involved with (arms shipments, etc.). None of that has gained any love from the Burmese[1].
I happen to have a soft spot for Singapore, but let's not try to rewrite the history and swipe the dirt under the rug.
[0] https://www.jstor.org/stable/192263
[1] https://www.irrawaddy.com/opinion/commentary/suu-kyi-singapo...
> In the 1990s-2000s, Myanmar had rudimentary internet via satellite links and state-controlled gateways.
Satellite internet did not exist in the 1990s and in the early 2000s. Iridium, the first commercial provider of internet access via satellites, began the deployment of the satellites in 1997 and did not complete the deployment until 2005 – when global coverage was achieved. The 1st generation of Iridium suffered from very slow speeds, poor reception inside buildings, and – most importantly – required prohibitively expensive equipment to connect to the satellites. Such equipment was entirely out of reach for any impoverished country, such as Myanmar at the time.
Myanmar Post started offering email service (not full internet service!) around 1997, where the email was stored on a central server and was routinely delayed because each email had to be reviewed by a junta-appointed censor before being relayed via a modem (even if it was IDSN, it was still a single modem connection) to an ISP in Singapore. Burmese hotels did not have websites back then; they had email addresses hosted on that central server instead. Extremely limited internet access was only allowed via internet cafes, which were prohibitively expensive to the locals (deliberately) who were presented with the sanitised, local Burmese «intranet» and access to a very limited number of global websites that the junta had sanctioned. I have the second-hand experience of this as a close friend of mine was travelling in Burma at the time, and our communication was severely hampered, partially for this reason.
> But saying Singapore propped up military regimes suggests active political or military support by the government, which is factually incorrect.
This is factually correct, the SG government is absolutely complicit, and it is the sole reason why the military junta has managed to survive.
SG has been the largest economic investor in Myanmar since the crackdown of the 8888 Uprising in 1988, and the SG government semi-openly or covertly has supported the military rule since then, with Lee Kuan Yew going on to state in 1996 that Burma could only be ruled by the military suggesting democracy activist Aung San Suu Kyi stay «behind a fence, and be a symbol»[0]. For the record, Lee Kuan Yew and Ne Win were also friends since 1962 – at least for a few decades.
Without the SG economic investment and the SG government support, the junta would have collapsed decades ago. This does not include other shenanigans, the SG government has been involved in, which has included providing a safe haven to former dictators Ne Win and Than Shwe, allowing them and their cronies to siphon the money they had embezzled from their people into Singaporean banks. The Singaporean banks have also been implicated in money laundering for Burmese heroin from the Golden Triangle as well as for their ties to Lo Hsing Han, which resulted in the US sanctioning Singaporean companies with connections to Lo. Since 2021 (the latest coup), Singapore has been a major equipment supplier for the junta's weapons factories, allowing the junta to continue on with their dirty business today. The list can go on and on. This does not include other shady shenanigans that the SG businesses, with the tacit approval of their government, have been involved with (arms shipments, etc.). None of that has gained any love from the Burmese[1].
I happen to have a soft spot for Singapore, but let's not try to rewrite the history and swipe the dirt under the rug.
[0] https://www.jstor.org/stable/192263
[1] https://www.irrawaddy.com/opinion/commentary/suu-kyi-singapo...
Thank you for your detailed response. I concede that you seem to know much more about the relationship between Burma and Singapore, and I will check out the sources that you shared.
Just to clarify: I wasn't deliberately trying to sweep dirt under the rug. I was under the impression that Singapore's government took a strong stance against the Burmese junta based on reporting like this: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/12/singapore-tightens-...
Just to clarify: I wasn't deliberately trying to sweep dirt under the rug. I was under the impression that Singapore's government took a strong stance against the Burmese junta based on reporting like this: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/12/singapore-tightens-...
Thailand is much more open in terms of media connections.
Thailand is among the most developed states on continental SEA and accordingly, it's telecomms and media.
More details from Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/strong-earthquake...
It looks like the supply of hard drives is going to be a bit precarious for a while.
I wonder if yesterdays geomagnetic solar storm has any correlation...
The largest coronal hole in years was streaming to Earth while the earthquake occurred. Link up of coronal hole with Earth’s geomagnetic system is associated with earthquakes. The storm was caused by charged particles from that stream.
hope everyone is alright
Given two buildings collapsing in the one video (in Mandalay) napkin math maybe thousand+ dead in Myanmar - https://x.com/cheguwera/status/1905541137504354763
I was upstairs, at third floor and was going down to have lunch and it shook whole house. At first I thought I am having nausea due to not having any food yet then thing starts to shake violently almost knocked me off stairs . And glasses started to rumble.
A construction in Pathunam collapsed.
Some house of friends of mine in Mandalay - Myanmar collapsed. One girl managed to get out in time.
One construction in Mandalay collapsed - 2 died.
Historic Mandalay Palace wall and entrance collapsed .
Airport in naypyitaw collapsed, there are report of many airport workers died.
Bridges collapsed, one of the longest standing historic bridges of Myanmar - Sagaing Bridge collapsed.
One other bridge in Mandalay brings down two cars with it, casualties unknown.
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/18bsATAEKS/
Many Junta gov buildings collapsed
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1BYV644DmY/