At least $9B billed across 14 Medicaid services in Minnesota may be fraudulent(cbsnews.com)
cbsnews.com
At least $9B billed across 14 Medicaid services in Minnesota may be fraudulent
https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/billions-paid-out-by-medicaid-in-minnesota-may-be-fraudulent-us-attorney/
36 comments
It says right in the first para, "could be" $9B. They obviously have no real idea. It sounds like the audit turned up a large amount of spending that can't be positively accounted for. Similar to the multiple trillions missing in all recent DoD audits. We really don't know how much has truly been "stolen" versus just not being properly recorded.
I know so many honest citizens who could have benefitted from a tiny fraction of that money.
But it's been under investigation for 4.5 years as I understand, and the theoretical numbers thrown by politicians (hype/lies) are increasingly confusing. So what's the hope for any correction?
But it's been under investigation for 4.5 years as I understand, and the theoretical numbers thrown by politicians (hype/lies) are increasingly confusing. So what's the hope for any correction?
I don’t hear many people in Minnesota trying to pretend the existence of these crimes is a hoax, fake news, etc. - so the hope is that we take our prosecutorial responsibilities seriously. Perhaps, so seriously that we set an expectation for the investigation and criminal prosecution of fraud and corruption vertically as well.
It’s not like multi-billion Medicare / Medicaid fraud is unheard of. What makes you certain it’s not a serious number?
To my understanding, the total spending is around $18B, so the allegation that 50% of all spending is fraudulent requires quite the sniff test. Additionally, large multi-billion dollar fraud causes are usually associated with large organizations (like a hospital or insurance system) which is not the case here.
Could it be $9B+? Stick enough vague qualifying words around your presentation of the probable truth then yea, sure - at least $9B in spending could be fraudulent.
Could it be $9B+? Stick enough vague qualifying words around your presentation of the probable truth then yea, sure - at least $9B in spending could be fraudulent.
It’s not 50% of all Medicaid spending. Minnesota spends about 18B a year (federal + state) on Medicaid). This is an alleged 9b of fraud over 7 years in specific services, so about a billion a year. An organization Minnesota knew was likely fraudulent at the time was still able to steal 250m in a year during COVID so a billion a year doesn’t seem too far fetched.
That would make it a more compelling argument, yes. However, the known ~$250M fraud was stolen over several years (rather than a single year’s take), so it’s not clear what could account for the remaining $8.75B.
I've not been keeping up with the news lately though I'd heard about this in passing. Was this tipped off from prior investigations wrapping up finally, or the current federal gov's hatred of Walz and Omar?
I mainly ask because it makes me curious how much fraud exists in other states - basically are we picking on MN, or are they the exception?
I mainly ask because it makes me curious how much fraud exists in other states - basically are we picking on MN, or are they the exception?
It seems people in this thread are getting downvoted for pointing out that your questions are reasonable.
There's a lot of disputes between state and federal authorities about this. The 9B figure is being disputed, and there's a lot of claims that the state has been kept in the dark about it intentionally, with claims that MN GOP House members on fraud investigation committees have been purposely withholding information from the state, forwarding their information instead to federal prosecutors. These House members don't seem to deny this:
https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/house-fraud-committee-wi...
https://www.startribune.com/walz-says-theres-no-evidence-of-...
I'm not sure people are really disputing that the fraud happened. I think there are disagreements about the scope of it and about the way in which the investigation has been happening, and the motives for the way in which it has happened.
Here's the whistleblower portal they set up earlier this year for example:
https://mnhouserepublicans.com/whistleblower-portal/
They then forwarded tips to the federal DOJ and not the state.
So are they picking on MN? I don't think the fraud, to the extent it is there, is them picking on them. The way in which this has unfolded might be.
There's a lot of disputes between state and federal authorities about this. The 9B figure is being disputed, and there's a lot of claims that the state has been kept in the dark about it intentionally, with claims that MN GOP House members on fraud investigation committees have been purposely withholding information from the state, forwarding their information instead to federal prosecutors. These House members don't seem to deny this:
https://kstp.com/kstp-news/top-news/house-fraud-committee-wi...
https://www.startribune.com/walz-says-theres-no-evidence-of-...
I'm not sure people are really disputing that the fraud happened. I think there are disagreements about the scope of it and about the way in which the investigation has been happening, and the motives for the way in which it has happened.
Here's the whistleblower portal they set up earlier this year for example:
https://mnhouserepublicans.com/whistleblower-portal/
They then forwarded tips to the federal DOJ and not the state.
So are they picking on MN? I don't think the fraud, to the extent it is there, is them picking on them. The way in which this has unfolded might be.
Yeah, I usually shy away from these threads because any hint of politicism drives tribalism and people assuming whatever I said is on the enemy side, whatever that is. I just wanted to get more informed thoughts and opinions.
In any event, thank you for the response and links.
In any event, thank you for the response and links.
[deleted]
There is plenty of fraud to go around but most of it is sophisticated and distributed (ie. lots of individual fraudulent PPP loans from somewhat real businesses exaggerating their expenses). The difference in MN is the fraud is jaw-droppingly stupid. Just read the Feeding our Future wikipedia page [1].
The fraudsters knew they were under suspicion, still got money from the state ,sued the state to force them to pay more - claiming racism, won, a judge forced the state to pay them 250m, blatantly spent the money on sports cars (again - knowing they were being investigated), got caught, tried to pay off the jury, the person who tried to pay of the jury stole the bribe money.
The investigation was wrapped up some time ago, but it did not get a lot of attention for obvious political reasons.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feeding_Our_Future
The fraudsters knew they were under suspicion, still got money from the state ,sued the state to force them to pay more - claiming racism, won, a judge forced the state to pay them 250m, blatantly spent the money on sports cars (again - knowing they were being investigated), got caught, tried to pay off the jury, the person who tried to pay of the jury stole the bribe money.
The investigation was wrapped up some time ago, but it did not get a lot of attention for obvious political reasons.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feeding_Our_Future
If Florida is anything to go by, the person responsible for this will run for Governor then Senator while winning both elections.
Friendly reminder: The Mayo Clinic is located in Minnesota.
The Mayo Clinic does a lot of groundbreaking research, new techniques, ultra-rare diseases... stuff that is super awesome, but nonetheless relatively unlikely to have established billing norms.
I will also remind you that in most U.S. states, the largest employer in the state is either a university or Walmart. In Minnesota, it's Mayo.
The Mayo Clinic does a lot of groundbreaking research, new techniques, ultra-rare diseases... stuff that is super awesome, but nonetheless relatively unlikely to have established billing norms.
I will also remind you that in most U.S. states, the largest employer in the state is either a university or Walmart. In Minnesota, it's Mayo.
If true, it’s an eye watering amount for such a small state.
Pretty average size population for a US state.
Just a reminder, the poor don't do the billing. Businesses do.
"Up to 100% of immigrants may be criminals."
That statement is not factually incorrect. Neither is this statement: “Up to 100% of US citizens may be criminals”
Yes.
“Up to 100% of politicians may be criminals”
And we keep getting them elected. Imagine an election where candidates are liable for the veracity of every claim they make, with immediate penalties to their candidacy, and only verified facts are allowed in ads.
> Imagine an election where candidates are liable for the veracity of every claim they make, with immediate penalties to their candidacy, and only verified facts are allowed in ads
You cease to have a democracy. The real power sits with the verifier in that system.
You cease to have a democracy. The real power sits with the verifier in that system.
Important point.
Says federal government whose credibility is worthless and has likely caused fraud multiple times this baseless estimate.
The press release is 100% political.
As someone who lives in Minnesota, I wish the US Attorney’s office would provide data about the alleged Medicare fraud to the MN state government, like they have requested.
Instead, they speculate about a ridiculous amount of money being stolen ($9B) that is likely an order of magnitude larger than the actual loss, providing no proof, and sharing zero information with the relevant agencies in Minnesota’s government.
If there is fraud, please prosecute it and collaborate with my state’s government to uncover it so our tax dollars can go towards medical care for real people.
Actual fraud has happened here in MN, an organization called Feed Our Future stole hundreds of millions of dollars by claiming to provide food to students. [0], [1] We’d appreciate any actual help the federal government can provide, instead we get politicized press releases.
[0] https://www.irs.gov/compliance/criminal-investigation/minnea...
[1] https://www.justice.gov/usao-mn/pr/78th-defendant-charged-fe...
As someone who lives in Minnesota, I wish the US Attorney’s office would provide data about the alleged Medicare fraud to the MN state government, like they have requested.
Instead, they speculate about a ridiculous amount of money being stolen ($9B) that is likely an order of magnitude larger than the actual loss, providing no proof, and sharing zero information with the relevant agencies in Minnesota’s government.
If there is fraud, please prosecute it and collaborate with my state’s government to uncover it so our tax dollars can go towards medical care for real people.
Actual fraud has happened here in MN, an organization called Feed Our Future stole hundreds of millions of dollars by claiming to provide food to students. [0], [1] We’d appreciate any actual help the federal government can provide, instead we get politicized press releases.
[0] https://www.irs.gov/compliance/criminal-investigation/minnea...
[1] https://www.justice.gov/usao-mn/pr/78th-defendant-charged-fe...
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> As someone who lives in Minnesota, I wish the US Attorney’s office would provide data about the alleged Medicare fraud to the MN state government, like they have requested.
Your governor has been subpoenaed by House due to accusations that he was aware of the fraud. I’m not surprised the state isn’t in the loop.
Your governor has been subpoenaed by House due to accusations that he was aware of the fraud. I’m not surprised the state isn’t in the loop.
> Your governor has been subpoenaed by House due to accusations that he was aware of the fraud.
No he hasn't.
No he hasn't.
Ah, you’re right. I got my Minnesota fraud investigations confused.
https://nypost.com/2024/09/04/us-news/tim-walz-hit-with-hous...
https://nypost.com/2024/09/04/us-news/tim-walz-hit-with-hous...
Wow, Najmo Ahmed, Said Ereg and Abdirashid Bixi Dool really did that?
What is this supposed to mean? Elaborate
The state government already failed with Feeding our Future and nothing has changed. The judge who "suggested" the payment of 250m is still serving his term, Jacob Frey (who's aide was indicted as part of it) is still in office, despite a literal vote rigging attempt to primary him.
This should be handled at the federal level, even just to reduce the chances of another jury bribe attempt!
This should be handled at the federal level, even just to reduce the chances of another jury bribe attempt!
I remember when I could trust Federal Prosecutors when they announced a crime had been committed.
As a Minnesotan, I’m appalled by the scale of these thefts, but glad they are actively investigating and charging these people for their crimes. If we had an honest and right minded political/justice system, we would be seeking to uncover and prosecute fraud through the nation.