How does FreedomPop make money?(latimes.com)
latimes.com
How does FreedomPop make money?
http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-freedompop-stokols-20170825-htmlstory.html
71 コメント
Project Fi seems cool and something I would happily subscribe to. Too bad it only works with Google phones.
Agreed. And currently available phones are really expensive. Supposedly the Moto X4 will work on Fi soon, but that's gone from a lower cost phone to a higher one, last I read. Around $400. I was hoping for $250-300, in case one of my 3 5x's bootloops or dies.
At this point, I really, really like Project Fi. Too bad Google can't get more phones out, though.
At this point, I really, really like Project Fi. Too bad Google can't get more phones out, though.
I can't speak to any agreements or conditions of use, but technically you need only a supported Google phone to activate the SIM card and tie it to a Google account. Afterwards, the card works in any phone.
My Nexus 5X (purchased through Fi, by the way, but recently using my Verizon SIM because of certain network coverage, etc.) bootlooped. I'm waiting for the Pixel 2, unless I decide on something else, and I picked up a Motorola G5+ to tide me over until then or I "unbootloop" the 5X and decide I can trust it.
Anyway, comments on Amazon and/or Newegg about using the G5+ on Fi state that it works but that calls can only be made on the T-Mobile network. IIRC -- this wasn't a factor, for me, so I didn't make a mental note to self to particularly remember that detail.
Anyway, comments on Amazon and/or Newegg about using the G5+ on Fi state that it works but that calls can only be made on the T-Mobile network. IIRC -- this wasn't a factor, for me, so I didn't make a mental note to self to particularly remember that detail.
Fair enough, but that means I have to find someone who has one of those phones ;)
No idea how payments work, but was it through credit card by any chance? Since you mentioned colections agency, but wanted to ask.
Pretty straight-forward submarine here.
The article is overloaded with gonna and might and could be and by end of x date. And then of course the not subtle money revs. Whatever PR firm put together this submarine, made them sound desperate:
"The Los Angeles company says its emergence over the last six years has led" ... "a near-acqusition for as much as $450 million"
"The company is reviewing a previously undisclosed acquisition offer, but discussions are continuing about potentially going public next year."
"A near-bankrupt FreedomPop was hours away from selling to Sprint in 2015 when a new $30-million investment came in from venture capitalists. Stokols isn’t in a cash crunch this time around."
"Investors are equivocal about when to sell, saying that they’ll weigh any offers, like the one on the table now, but that they generally want to see the company remain independent for some time."
"If they hold out, investors could turn into potential acquirers." (har har, nice fake spin by the PR firm on trying to project power)
So what you're really saying is: you want to sell (soon!), you're going to hit a money crunch because the business has no margin and it's very expensive to compete (but we could IPO any minute now, so you better buy us first), your investors are worried (we like putting more money into a red ink machine that nearly went under before), you're fake-touting strength when you're actually not in that position at all (we might buy the entire telecom industry!), and everything you might accomplish is forecast to x date into the future (when you hope to have already sold, so the cash burning 'business' is a problem for someone else).
Want to know what this really is? History rhymes. It's PeoplePC from the dotcom bubble.
The article is overloaded with gonna and might and could be and by end of x date. And then of course the not subtle money revs. Whatever PR firm put together this submarine, made them sound desperate:
"The Los Angeles company says its emergence over the last six years has led" ... "a near-acqusition for as much as $450 million"
"The company is reviewing a previously undisclosed acquisition offer, but discussions are continuing about potentially going public next year."
"A near-bankrupt FreedomPop was hours away from selling to Sprint in 2015 when a new $30-million investment came in from venture capitalists. Stokols isn’t in a cash crunch this time around."
"Investors are equivocal about when to sell, saying that they’ll weigh any offers, like the one on the table now, but that they generally want to see the company remain independent for some time."
"If they hold out, investors could turn into potential acquirers." (har har, nice fake spin by the PR firm on trying to project power)
So what you're really saying is: you want to sell (soon!), you're going to hit a money crunch because the business has no margin and it's very expensive to compete (but we could IPO any minute now, so you better buy us first), your investors are worried (we like putting more money into a red ink machine that nearly went under before), you're fake-touting strength when you're actually not in that position at all (we might buy the entire telecom industry!), and everything you might accomplish is forecast to x date into the future (when you hope to have already sold, so the cash burning 'business' is a problem for someone else).
Want to know what this really is? History rhymes. It's PeoplePC from the dotcom bubble.
For those wondering what a submarine is: http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html
I, too, have seen the fnords.
I had a FreedomPop mifi box for 18 months which was great, cost me about $60 from memory for the hardware and a few dollars/mo in fees when I upgraded something. It stopped when Sprint turned off Wimax.
I think there is a big market for people that want to pay $5-$15/mo for a small data only plan for people that will use Wifi on their phone 90% of the time but want to use mobile data just occasionally. Most of the major plans start way over that.
I see they're selling data-only SIMs for phones. Is that new? I thought Apple & Google insisted phones must have plan with a phone line. (If its good I think I'll go back to data only (with Google Voice))
I think there is a big market for people that want to pay $5-$15/mo for a small data only plan for people that will use Wifi on their phone 90% of the time but want to use mobile data just occasionally. Most of the major plans start way over that.
I see they're selling data-only SIMs for phones. Is that new? I thought Apple & Google insisted phones must have plan with a phone line. (If its good I think I'll go back to data only (with Google Voice))
Google Voice just used to use data to set up a PSTN call. Has something changed?
Yes. About 4 years ago they integrated full VoIP calling into something they call the Hangouts Dialer. Outbound works well, although I often have to initiate a call twice due to setup connectivity weirdness on LTE. Inbound basically never works, so I leave the PSTN forwarding on for that reason.
I think you mean Google Hangouts if you are taking a about the app(which is confusing and frankly my work on both on Android) and incoming calls only works on Android.
> I think you mean Google Hangouts
No, Google Voice predates Google Hangouts.
No, Google Voice predates Google Hangouts.
I misread the comment.
> Google Voice just used to use data to set up a PSTN call. Has something changed?
Google Voice did not originally support data only calling(VOIP) like I said read the comment above me. He is supporting what I was saying.
> Yes. About 4 years ago they integrated full VoIP calling into something they call the Hangouts Dialer. Outbound works well, although I often have to initiate a call twice due to setup connectivity weirdness on LTE. Inbound basically never works, so I leave the PSTN forwarding on for that reason.
I have been on Google Voice for a fairly long time. Google Voice used to only supports PSTN calling although it uses data to trigger the call.
> Google Voice just used to use data to set up a PSTN call. Has something changed?
Google Voice did not originally support data only calling(VOIP) like I said read the comment above me. He is supporting what I was saying.
> Yes. About 4 years ago they integrated full VoIP calling into something they call the Hangouts Dialer. Outbound works well, although I often have to initiate a call twice due to setup connectivity weirdness on LTE. Inbound basically never works, so I leave the PSTN forwarding on for that reason.
I have been on Google Voice for a fairly long time. Google Voice used to only supports PSTN calling although it uses data to trigger the call.
Exactly - I can have a data-only plan to receive calls on a number.
> I see they're selling data-only SIMs. Is that new? I thought Apple & Google insisted phones must have plan with a phone line.
I'm not sure why you think Google or Apple can dictate terms to operators who do not even sell their phones.
Data-only SIM's are quite common, they are used in tablets, 4G USB-sticks for laptops, portable 4G-wifi routers, etc.
I'm not sure why you think Google or Apple can dictate terms to operators who do not even sell their phones.
Data-only SIM's are quite common, they are used in tablets, 4G USB-sticks for laptops, portable 4G-wifi routers, etc.
> FreedomPop pays Sprint and AT&T based on customer usage. The two big carriers can see what websites FreedomPop users are checking out, but neither they nor FreedomPop can record or monitor calls as long as only FreedomPop users are participants.
I wonder if the major carriers track and log web browsing history of their own customers as well? And if we can opt out...
I wonder if the major carriers track and log web browsing history of their own customers as well? And if we can opt out...
Of course they can. Of course you cannot.
T-Mobile, for example even monitors and freaking blocks your usage to certain sites when on airplane mode and on wifi - even when you have wifi assist disabled.
Further, they even deduct from you data usage wifi use!
It's provable! I've proved it and T-Mobile Philippines call center says "oops let me reset your data plan" when called on it.
I proved it by only being in airplane mode and used wifi calling, and seeing that data was being deducted from my account when I wasn't using cell data.
T-Mobile, for example even monitors and freaking blocks your usage to certain sites when on airplane mode and on wifi - even when you have wifi assist disabled.
Further, they even deduct from you data usage wifi use!
It's provable! I've proved it and T-Mobile Philippines call center says "oops let me reset your data plan" when called on it.
I proved it by only being in airplane mode and used wifi calling, and seeing that data was being deducted from my account when I wasn't using cell data.
It's a shitty system, but they openly admit to doing this: https://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-1680
If you have a plan that doesn't offer unlimited calling, calls made over Wi-Fi Calling count against your plan minutes. For Pay In Advance prepaid lines, calls made over Wi-Fi deduct from the plan bucket just like regular calls.
If you have a plan that doesn't offer unlimited calling, calls made over Wi-Fi Calling count against your plan minutes. For Pay In Advance prepaid lines, calls made over Wi-Fi deduct from the plan bucket just like regular calls.
That’s one thing but he’s saying it’s counting Data. I can’t believe that.
Believe it. They confirmed it last night when I spoke to them, they changed my plan without permission - tried to swindle me, but I got them to revert my data plan... too much to type on mobile, I'll come back and post more.
Oh, that's crazy. I just saw "wifi calling" and automatically assumed it was their crappy policy on plan minutes (AT&T doesn't charge them).
That seems very hard to believe
Yes & No (unless use TOR). To ask the question is to answer...they will do whatever they can get away with. Haven't you heard of the Snowden revelations?
TOR does not protect DNS queries out of the box. You must configure your PC to query through TOR or all of your DNS queries have the potential to leak to your ISP
https://tor.stackexchange.com/questions/8/how-does-tor-route...
Verizon has been adding headers for tracking for some time (probably via Blue Coat ProxySG forward proxy or similar technology) https://www.verizonwireless.com/support/unique-identifier-he...
https://tor.stackexchange.com/questions/8/how-does-tor-route...
Verizon has been adding headers for tracking for some time (probably via Blue Coat ProxySG forward proxy or similar technology) https://www.verizonwireless.com/support/unique-identifier-he...
Recently I looked into moving some family members onto cheaper plans. I did look at freedompop, but decided to try mintsim; freedompop seemed... "sketchy".
But the problem was I ran into barriers for byop. The 1st phone was a verizon phone, which, while unlocked, they disabled access to configure APN settings.
The second phone was a net10 android one phone. When I called them, they said they couldn't technically unlock the phone and the best they could do would be to send me $5 dollars for it.
But the problem was I ran into barriers for byop. The 1st phone was a verizon phone, which, while unlocked, they disabled access to configure APN settings.
The second phone was a net10 android one phone. When I called them, they said they couldn't technically unlock the phone and the best they could do would be to send me $5 dollars for it.
thanks mintsim actually looks great. Aside from the $15 2GB/mo LTE, unlimited 2G is gold, is good enough for getting messages, email and traffic in navigation.
"but neither they nor FreedomPop can record or monitor calls as long as only FreedomPop users are participants."
If Freedompop has a couple million customers, chances are that 95+% are not calls only involving 2 Freedompop customers... So 95+% of Freedompop customers' calls are likely monitored and recorded by Sprint or AT&T. This is scary.
If Freedompop has a couple million customers, chances are that 95+% are not calls only involving 2 Freedompop customers... So 95+% of Freedompop customers' calls are likely monitored and recorded by Sprint or AT&T. This is scary.
The money shot, albeit unsurprising:
"FreedomPop collects data about users’ backgrounds and phone habits."
"FreedomPop collects data about users’ backgrounds and phone habits."
I've actually had surprisingly good luck with their AT&T LTE sim. I use Google Voice as my primary phone number, so as long as I have an internet connection, I'm golden. The Freedompop sim goes in a burner phone that I take to the beach or out on the water.
The trick here is to realize that they are basically a scam company and treat them as such. I used a temporary credit card number to prevent any unwanted charges. As long as they're willing to give me a backup LTE connection for free, I'm willing to take it. When they inevitably implode, oh well.
The trick here is to realize that they are basically a scam company and treat them as such. I used a temporary credit card number to prevent any unwanted charges. As long as they're willing to give me a backup LTE connection for free, I'm willing to take it. When they inevitably implode, oh well.
> There are limits on monthly usage (500 megabytes in the U.S.) and caps on calling and texting (three hours and 500 messages).
I think I'm paying something like CAD$40/month for this level of service in Canada.
I think I'm paying something like CAD$40/month for this level of service in Canada.
The details may be complicated, but the answer to the question is the same as for other "free" services:
If you don't pay for the product, YOU are the product.
If you don't pay for the product, YOU are the product.
Ting costs just a little more than this, but I had amazing customer service when I was with them, and pretty good coverage. They were super helpful with porting over from Verizon and back to them a few years later. Back in 2013 when I started with them they would help you look on eBay for a compatible used phone, but I can't find that on their website today.
Remember NetZero?
freedom pop is sketchy AF. without clicking that link, based on my experience its: hiding fees, making it difficult to cancel service, not actually canceling service once the service has been canceled.
FreedomPop is operating on a scamming shady level by not being honest about what they are selling.
They don't give you a real phone number, just some app you need to use to call.
Avoid them.
Edit: Is it how hacker news community is? downvoting because I tell the truth how their service is? I had the experience of getting charged for months without warning. They use your credit card, instead of direct debit in the UK so even more annoying for cancelling. And no requiring customer to read every details of your contract is not fair. Fair is an important part of any contract, finding you are getting a VoIP number is not normal.
They don't give you a real phone number, just some app you need to use to call.
Avoid them.
Edit: Is it how hacker news community is? downvoting because I tell the truth how their service is? I had the experience of getting charged for months without warning. They use your credit card, instead of direct debit in the UK so even more annoying for cancelling. And no requiring customer to read every details of your contract is not fair. Fair is an important part of any contract, finding you are getting a VoIP number is not normal.
It's real data and a VoIP number, looks okay to me. I thought they make money off the no confirmation "upgrades" with monthly fees.
While sketchy, it is actually free after the "activation fee" etc.
There was also ring+ which shut down, pay a few hundred up front for 5GB data "for life" + a real non VoIP phone number.
All in all unless you can't afford cell service at all, it really isn't worth the hassle (no real phone number, just VoIP so it gets rejected for verification).
While sketchy, it is actually free after the "activation fee" etc.
There was also ring+ which shut down, pay a few hundred up front for 5GB data "for life" + a real non VoIP phone number.
All in all unless you can't afford cell service at all, it really isn't worth the hassle (no real phone number, just VoIP so it gets rejected for verification).
If you take the price I paid for RP data and divide it over the number of months for which I had service, it still comes out with a competitive rate. So I'm not too disappointed there.
I tried out a FreedomPop phone once and they ended up taking my credit card number and began billing me at the end of some term they had. I tried to cancel the service using their online service and got an email confirmation that it was canceled, but they billed me for months and I had to keep filing disputes with my credit card company. I won't touch or recommend FreedomPop.
>> They don't give you a real phone number, just some app you need to use to call.
A lot of ultra-low budget phone plans are like this (TextNow for example)
A lot of ultra-low budget phone plans are like this (TextNow for example)
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Please don't complain about being downvoted
I had read about FreedomPop when it first launched...I'm surprised it has lasted 4+ years now.
Is the Sprint/FreedomPop network compatible with AT&T and T-Mobile phones?
I have an unlocked T-Mobile iPhone 5s that I put a Freedom Pop sim in as a "guest phone" for my visiting Non-US Friends and Family.
It seems to work just fine. It is strange that its not a real phone number, only a VOIP style app - but it still works with iMessage and WhatsApp, and they can make and receive calls in a pinch.
It seems to work just fine. It is strange that its not a real phone number, only a VOIP style app - but it still works with iMessage and WhatsApp, and they can make and receive calls in a pinch.
FreedomPop sells AT&T SIMs. The phones they sell are for Sprint. I have accounts on both. I use the free AT&T SIM in my car and get 1GB free/month, which is more than sufficient for my Google Maps/Earth and directions usage.
BTW how does that "LTE SIM" actually work? I have a few of their pre-LTE "global" SIMs. The MNC is actually some UK company, and it actually does route through the UK. Horrible latency (and they marketed this for VOIP, lol), it's NATted, and the IP address actually ends in 0! (not wrong under CIDR, just unusual). But it does roam onto both AT&T and T-mobile towers.
It's complicated. In general, no, due to different base technologies (GSM vs CDMA), and the US carriers' unlock policies (the carriers can sometimes lock your phone to their network). In specific, maybe, because some phones (mostly new iPhones and Nexus/Pixel devices) can be used on all US networks, and the CDMA carriers have started to use SIM cards like the GSM carriers.
Not an easily answerable question, and no one is giving you the real answer:
look at the specific bands that your phone supports. there is no other way of knowing. a good amount of phones are CDMA and GSM. if your phone is carrier locked, you will also need to find a way of undoing that.
look at the specific bands that your phone supports. there is no other way of knowing. a good amount of phones are CDMA and GSM. if your phone is carrier locked, you will also need to find a way of undoing that.
Freedom pop has a contract with at&t as well, you need one of their at&t sims tho.
I have one in a spare Verizon note 4 - it gets h+ networking rather than 4g, but its useable.
I have one in a spare Verizon note 4 - it gets h+ networking rather than 4g, but its useable.
TL;DR: It doesn't.
"Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline...
(I suppose a corollary: in the negative if grammatically appropriate)
(I suppose a corollary: in the negative if grammatically appropriate)
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FreedomPop in Spain was a free service until recently. It was completely unusable. They were selling Three (UK) cards that worked here in roaming. The internet service simply didn't work. They were assigning telephone numbers they borrowed from another company. That company didn't have a licence to lend their assigned numbers, that was illegal, so they had to stop providing their services and I suppose they'll get fined, big time.
Now they stopped giving that free service, and you have to pay. I don't think many people will pay anything. It's a scam.
Now they stopped giving that free service, and you have to pay. I don't think many people will pay anything. It's a scam.
It seems the CNMC forbid their number provider (Parlem... previously known as FonYou) from reselling those numbers to be used as VoIP numbers, and FreedomPop took in a rush the route of porting everything to MasMovil and forcing you to buy new MasMovil 4G cards for 2€ shipping and port your Parlem number to them to keep your free service. And announced all of this on the middle of August when pretty much half of Spain is on holidays.
The advantage is that the new cards are pretty much plain Masmovil simcards, so calls and SMS go over GSM directly and 4G works at decent speed over the Orange network.
But if you look at the whiteboard behind the CEO on the picture on the article, they were intelligent enough to leave written on it things about their roadmap like "Blocking SMS" or "Masmovil = ?appnet? calls + SMS" which leads to think that they will migrate both to their app in the future.
At least they also have "holiday" written on the whiteboard, so probably they also thought about how bad of an idea is to do all of this on summer holidays.
The advantage is that the new cards are pretty much plain Masmovil simcards, so calls and SMS go over GSM directly and 4G works at decent speed over the Orange network.
But if you look at the whiteboard behind the CEO on the picture on the article, they were intelligent enough to leave written on it things about their roadmap like "Blocking SMS" or "Masmovil = ?appnet? calls + SMS" which leads to think that they will migrate both to their app in the future.
At least they also have "holiday" written on the whiteboard, so probably they also thought about how bad of an idea is to do all of this on summer holidays.
Huh? I have two FreedomPop SIM cards, which I made a one-time payment of 3 € for (with no monthly fee), and it's been mostly reliable so far. Are you saying they're gonna add a monthly fee, or is the one-time payment new?
https://bandaancha.eu/foros/freedompop-dejara-sin-servicio-c...
I received an email regarding this this morning.
I received an email regarding this this morning.
Oh wow, what a trainwreck. Thanks for letting me know -- I didn't receive anything!
I used straight talk for years, and I'm now on project fi. Both are miles above FreedomPop.