Show HN: Generate a fake app to replace any addictive app(detoxify.app)
detoxify.app
Show HN: Generate a fake app to replace any addictive app
https://www.detoxify.app/
65 コメント
How does this help with addiction as opposed to uninstalling said apps?
I was addicted to TV when I was in high school. After school I alwys lied down in front of a tv for few hours. Switching channels, getting a little bit entertained but more and more tired.
When I wanted to break that routine I asked my mom to put a parental lock on the TV.
Even though TV showed jo channel for me I still lied down in front of it, twiddled with remote. Sometimes for many minutes. My dumb brain gradually learned that TV is not fun anymore (not that it was much fun in the first place).
I think similar mechanism might help you shake off your app addiction.
Not sure if this tool does this but maybe you could even have you fake facebook app show you static screenshot of facebook and let you scroll up and down a bit. You might have additional twists like scrolling locking up after few minutes forcing you to abandon or restart. Or maybe screenshot might be blurred a bit.
When I wanted to break that routine I asked my mom to put a parental lock on the TV.
Even though TV showed jo channel for me I still lied down in front of it, twiddled with remote. Sometimes for many minutes. My dumb brain gradually learned that TV is not fun anymore (not that it was much fun in the first place).
I think similar mechanism might help you shake off your app addiction.
Not sure if this tool does this but maybe you could even have you fake facebook app show you static screenshot of facebook and let you scroll up and down a bit. You might have additional twists like scrolling locking up after few minutes forcing you to abandon or restart. Or maybe screenshot might be blurred a bit.
This is the exact feeling that I have had recently when trying to cut the phone addiction. I deleted all games and social networks from my phone, then turned it to black and white. It's still tough since I can just go to reddit or hacker news on the browser, not much I can do about that since even flip phones have internet. The interesting thing was that my phone pick ups remained the same for a week or so, but the time on my phone when dramatically down.
The disturbing part is that even weeks later, if I am really bored I will reach for my phone and pick it up. There just isn't much to do on there anymore, so I put it down. I think I'm going to start leaving it places altogether so I lose the habit of having it on my at all times.
The disturbing part is that even weeks later, if I am really bored I will reach for my phone and pick it up. There just isn't much to do on there anymore, so I put it down. I think I'm going to start leaving it places altogether so I lose the habit of having it on my at all times.
> not much I can do about that
You could root the device and redirect reddit and hn domains to 127.0.0.1 with /etc/hosts file (does android have that).
You could root the device and redirect reddit and hn domains to 127.0.0.1 with /etc/hosts file (does android have that).
Install a good book-reader app and buy/download epubs on the internet. Always good to a have the content of fresh reading material.
Good on you for realizing that as a teenager. I use to read the TV section of the newspaper and plan a binge for a few hours. That was a different pattern to switching channels. I was extremely bored of the kind of TV you'd see if it was just unplanned "let's see whats on..."
> You might have additional twists like scrolling locking up
The real Facebook for sure does this!
The real Facebook for sure does this!
I used to remove apps but I'd end up re-installing them after a while. Unlearning a habit (aka forming a new habits to replace the old one) is about having a cue. The fake app acts as a cue/signal to remind you about your goal and boost learning the new habit of not visiting the app randomly based on the habit.
By installing the fake app, you'll be surprised how many times you unconsciously you open them, although you are aware that they are fake apps. It feels like our brain is on auto-pilot, once we're hooked/addicted to unconsciously open addictive apps.
By installing the fake app, you'll be surprised how many times you unconsciously you open them, although you are aware that they are fake apps. It feels like our brain is on auto-pilot, once we're hooked/addicted to unconsciously open addictive apps.
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I think the idea is that out of habit people will open the app and be greeted with a reminder of there habits.
Uninstalling can just leave you searching for the app before you remember.
I don't really know if it will help any more than just uninstalling but I suppose for some it could.
Uninstalling can just leave you searching for the app before you remember.
I don't really know if it will help any more than just uninstalling but I suppose for some it could.
Some people have more success weaning off an addiction as opposed to cold turkey.
How does it work? There is no clear message about how it works or how it's supposed to help.
@faeyanpiraat described it very well:
"It can put an icon on your homescreen looking like an app that you want to stop using. Then when you try to instinctively open for example twitter, a simple page comes up that counts how many times you tried opening it. To make it work open the page, click a popular app click the install button then follow the instructions."
We're far from having a good UX, so please feel free to provide your suggestions, or contribute directly to the repo (it's open source).
We're far from having a good UX, so please feel free to provide your suggestions, or contribute directly to the repo (it's open source).
That should be written in the website (even on about page or similar, just an opinion/idea)
I asked a related question 2 days ago. This is a great idea. But how does one make money selling such ideas/apps? Do we make partnerships? Do we list the app on appstore for a small amount? Any other ideas?
Is it inspired by this [0] xkcd by any chance?
[0] https://xkcd.com/2183
[0] https://xkcd.com/2183
That appears to be the current xkcd comic (published 2019-07-31), but the github for this application has commits going back a month, with the domain registered on 2019-07-06, so I think it is likely a coincidence or the inspiration goes the other way.
Has this study been replicated?
This isn't a study; it's a web comic.
Has a bot been exposed?
What's the privacy policy around this?
Will the count be used later?
Will the count be used later?
We don't store anything, everything is in the localstorage. We only use Google Analytics without any custom code, we don't use it to track specific metrics.
The app is open-source, you can have a look at the code.
The app is open-source, you can have a look at the code.
Missed opportunity IMO, I would pay good money to get access to that kind of data, especially as it acquired more users.
So it's a missed opportunity to make money without regard to the ethics of user privacy?
Thanks for being part of the problem I guess?
Thanks for being part of the problem I guess?
It’s anonymous data. I don’t see how getting data on which applications are getting hits and around what times they occur is violating anyone’s privacy.
gross
Doesn't work for me, the counter remains at 1 on iOS 12.4
We would like to hear you feedback so keep them coming:)
I don't understand what this does.
It can put an icon on your homescreen looking like an app that you want to stop using. Then when you try to instinctively open for example twitter, a simple page comes up that counts how many times you tried opening it. To make it work open the page, click a popular app click the install button then follow the instructions.
That's a technical description of what it does. But what is the benefit, compared to just uninstalling the real app?
Edit: I can kind of see how it might work for some people: just uninstalling a 'toxic' app like Twitter doesn't always work for long, as you can usually still go on the website, or even reinstall it absent-mindedly (e.g. when drunk or low on willpower). Having a fake app on your homescreen might help as a sort of reinforcement tool in those situations. For example, when you want to go on Twitter, you open the fake app, and because it's missing the usual toxic notification dopamine hit, you can gradually unlearn the association. Maybe.
Edit 2: I made the above edit before seeing the replies :)
Edit: I can kind of see how it might work for some people: just uninstalling a 'toxic' app like Twitter doesn't always work for long, as you can usually still go on the website, or even reinstall it absent-mindedly (e.g. when drunk or low on willpower). Having a fake app on your homescreen might help as a sort of reinforcement tool in those situations. For example, when you want to go on Twitter, you open the fake app, and because it's missing the usual toxic notification dopamine hit, you can gradually unlearn the association. Maybe.
Edit 2: I made the above edit before seeing the replies :)
I used to remove apps but I'd end up re-installing them after a while. Unlearning a habit (aka forming a new habits to replace the old one) is about having a proper cue (referring to the habit loop from the "The Power of Habit" book). The fake app acts as a cue/signal to remind you about your goal and boost learning the new habit of not visiting the app randomly based on the habit.
By installing the fake app, you'll be surprised how many times you unconsciously you open them, although you are aware that they are fake apps. It feels like our brain is on auto-pilot, once we're hooked/addicted to instinctively open addictive apps.
By installing the fake app, you'll be surprised how many times you unconsciously you open them, although you are aware that they are fake apps. It feels like our brain is on auto-pilot, once we're hooked/addicted to instinctively open addictive apps.
You can measure your addiction to different apps :)
Ahhh, it's about mobile apps. Nothing on the site made that clear to me. Thanks!
Do you collect any data from use of this app?
We don't store anything, everything is in the localstorage. We only use Google Analytics without any custom code, we don't use it to track specific metrics.
The app is open-source, you can have a look at the code.
Somebody reads xkcd
I made something similar as a weekend hack: https://quit.social
It helped me quit my Instagram habit, so it's already more than paid for itself. Next is Twitter. :(
Detoxify looks a lot better though, and definitely has clearer instructions!
It helped me quit my Instagram habit, so it's already more than paid for itself. Next is Twitter. :(
Detoxify looks a lot better though, and definitely has clearer instructions!
It has clearer instructions for sure, but you got the icons right (at least for Instagram, the borders are rounded). It's enough to make me use it! Because the ones from detoxyfy are pure square on my home screen, and just because of that I know there's something wrong and I don't tap. Plus on yours I still get stats after 2 openings ;-)
If you reload the page 3 times, it blurs out the counter and message. While I see that this is to make people donate, it would be pretty nice to state, that in order to see it again - you must donate. I was thinking it was a bug at first.
Thanks I updated the message with "For us, in order to be able to cover our server costs, we ask our users to contribute a tiny amount if they find the app useful. Donate to see the detox counter again." I basically added "Donate to see the detox counter again." what do you think ?
What server costs are you talking about? How much does hosting this run you? $5/mo?
$3 donation is never going to get us rich, especially when the conversation rate for such apps are normally below 5% of the user base. The primary reason for asking donation is to measure and validate your idea. One of the way to check your market-fit is to who's freely willing to pay for it.
The other reason is to cover our Heroku cost ($7 per month) and any other costs (e.g. domain name, the time we put in making/maintaining it, etc.). Nevertheless, please can just ignore and continue using the app for free.
But thanks for the feedback, you are right about the message, we thought it's too long to describe it all, but we'll try to come up with a better and clearer message.
The other reason is to cover our Heroku cost ($7 per month) and any other costs (e.g. domain name, the time we put in making/maintaining it, etc.). Nevertheless, please can just ignore and continue using the app for free.
But thanks for the feedback, you are right about the message, we thought it's too long to describe it all, but we'll try to come up with a better and clearer message.
Just say you want money for your app. Put a pay-what-you-want or heck, bill for it monthly.
I really don't think it's the right idea to blatantly lie, it's quite obvious that server costs are negligible here. No one is denying your work or effort.
I really don't think it's the right idea to blatantly lie, it's quite obvious that server costs are negligible here. No one is denying your work or effort.
What's wrong with the donation model? That way this website can help people as well as stay afloat.
Yeah, I agree with the other comment.
> "For us, in order to be able to cover our server costs, we ask our users to contribute a tiny amount if they find the app useful. Donate to see the detox counter again."
As far as this message goes, I'd just remove the word "server". We all know that's not the only cost associated, so pointing it out as the only cost seems... dishonest? Maybe you'd want to link the word "costs" to a web page that elaborates on the costs a bit. Not with concrete numbers, but more like percentages: 60% on the time maintaining it, 10% for the server and domain(s) etc.
As far as the funding model goes, I feel like pay-what-you-want would be a good strategy for this use case, but that's up to you to decide. I'm certainly bad at monetizing my projects, so I'm in no position to make suggestions.
> "For us, in order to be able to cover our server costs, we ask our users to contribute a tiny amount if they find the app useful. Donate to see the detox counter again."
As far as this message goes, I'd just remove the word "server". We all know that's not the only cost associated, so pointing it out as the only cost seems... dishonest? Maybe you'd want to link the word "costs" to a web page that elaborates on the costs a bit. Not with concrete numbers, but more like percentages: 60% on the time maintaining it, 10% for the server and domain(s) etc.
As far as the funding model goes, I feel like pay-what-you-want would be a good strategy for this use case, but that's up to you to decide. I'm certainly bad at monetizing my projects, so I'm in no position to make suggestions.
Dont be a jerk. There must be some other costs involved. It's a nice way for asking the donation.
This is a static site that tricks users into using it, then after several uses disables functionality and demands a "donation" to cover server costs, but the person asking how much the server actually costs is being a jerk?
You don't have to use it. It is a service, not a human right. The question about margins on this thing is a perfectly valid one however, but do we all think that when we buy something in a store that nobody makes a profit?
Who is arguing that this is a human right?
Let's change context. You go to a restaurant because it is advertising free meal opening night. You go, you eat, you have a good time. When you stand up to leave you are informed that in order to leave you have to pay the door tax.
A restaurant like that would be sued for false advertising. How is willfully gathering data about yourself only to be extorted money to access that data later on any different?
Let's change context. You go to a restaurant because it is advertising free meal opening night. You go, you eat, you have a good time. When you stand up to leave you are informed that in order to leave you have to pay the door tax.
A restaurant like that would be sued for false advertising. How is willfully gathering data about yourself only to be extorted money to access that data later on any different?
That would be a good analogy if OP told you that you had used $5 worth of resources and now have to pay, then calls the police on you when you close your tab.
It’s not about making a profit. Everyone wants to atleast cover their costs (including their own time). And personally I like money. I like having it and I like spending it. So I’m not going to bitch at anyone for seeking a profit.
My objection to the current wording is that it comes across as the server costs are though the roof. As a static site with a little thinking it can be heavily cached both online and on device, “New” apps could be generated offline and uploaded or auto generated using a server less (I still hate that term) back-end, knocking down that $7 per month to pennies per month. To the point where the domain name is the most expensive part of the site. Heck I can think of ways to use GitHub pages to run the site and get those server costs down to $0p/m.
But for me personally that can countered by simply remove the word server (Anyone who really knows the term “server” will have an idea of the cost). Removing the ref to their overheads removes that from you thought process when deciding on if dropping a few bucks is a good value. For me personally the message feels like they are struggling to cover their overheads when I know they will be small (To the point where personally I would run it for the shits and giggles of it). If they are even struggling to cover server costs the owners of the site won't be motivated to maintain the site.
Infact remove the word “costs”. When we walk into a supermarket we don’t think of the stores costs when we are purchasing things. By removing the wording I wouldn't be thinking about their server costs and thinking about it as more like dropping the creators a few bucks.
IMO being honest and a little bit cheeky can get you a long way. So personally I would word it like “Hey, want to see the number of times you have opened this app? Well for the low price of a cup of coffee instead of this Annoying message that is exactly what you see. Click here...”
But that's just my own opinion on the matter.
My objection to the current wording is that it comes across as the server costs are though the roof. As a static site with a little thinking it can be heavily cached both online and on device, “New” apps could be generated offline and uploaded or auto generated using a server less (I still hate that term) back-end, knocking down that $7 per month to pennies per month. To the point where the domain name is the most expensive part of the site. Heck I can think of ways to use GitHub pages to run the site and get those server costs down to $0p/m.
But for me personally that can countered by simply remove the word server (Anyone who really knows the term “server” will have an idea of the cost). Removing the ref to their overheads removes that from you thought process when deciding on if dropping a few bucks is a good value. For me personally the message feels like they are struggling to cover their overheads when I know they will be small (To the point where personally I would run it for the shits and giggles of it). If they are even struggling to cover server costs the owners of the site won't be motivated to maintain the site.
Infact remove the word “costs”. When we walk into a supermarket we don’t think of the stores costs when we are purchasing things. By removing the wording I wouldn't be thinking about their server costs and thinking about it as more like dropping the creators a few bucks.
IMO being honest and a little bit cheeky can get you a long way. So personally I would word it like “Hey, want to see the number of times you have opened this app? Well for the low price of a cup of coffee instead of this Annoying message that is exactly what you see. Click here...”
But that's just my own opinion on the matter.
He doesn't HAVE to use it.
But it is absolutely his RIGHT to complain about an unexpected nag message.
You don't have to agree with him. But don't ask him to shut up if you don't.
But it is absolutely his RIGHT to complain about an unexpected nag message.
You don't have to agree with him. But don't ask him to shut up if you don't.
They should say that then, I'm not sure how a simple app like this could cost more than a few dollars per month on hosting.
PWAs are offline first and there's one database with the number of opens.
I'm not saying that they don't deserve money, but should they ask disingenuously?
PWAs are offline first and there's one database with the number of opens.
I'm not saying that they don't deserve money, but should they ask disingenuously?
> one database
You mean one field in local storage [1]
Using github pages or similar, this could be completely free to run.
[1] https://imgur.com/JKSo6lP.png
You mean one field in local storage [1]
Using github pages or similar, this could be completely free to run.
[1] https://imgur.com/JKSo6lP.png
Domains aren't free and neither is time, so a simple ask for a donation is never a big issue. You can always make it yourself if you don't want to pay
Donations are never an issue, I had a donation link on my blog for years.
I didn't ever say that it was to "cover server costs" because even years ago I barely paid pennies a day for hosting.
I didn't ever say that it was to "cover server costs" because even years ago I barely paid pennies a day for hosting.
Hilarious. "Server cost" donations make sense for large free forums but this is just static files. Sigh
What I'm hearing is if they replaced "for server costs" with "for costs", people would be fine.
Any website asking for a donation should:
1. publish an overview of donations annually,
2. justify roughly what costs were covered with the donations.
If websites don't do this, then I'm not donating.
1. publish an overview of donations annually,
2. justify roughly what costs were covered with the donations.
If websites don't do this, then I'm not donating.
What’s nice about being disingenuous to get donations?
He even says everything is stored locally.
He even says everything is stored locally.
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Use Github pages. Will virtually cost nothing to operate than the domain name.