Do you struggle with anxiety from work?
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Anxiety runs rampant among knowledge workers. It appears a good half of all programmers are affected, most of them do not know it. Pretty much 100% of grad students have severe anxiety problems. You're not alone in this.
I recommend against changing careers - you have gotten into it for a reason that mattered to you, don't get out until you can articulate a good reason for changing it. And it pays the bills rather well. Shifting jobs to lower responsibility will probably give you immediate relief and is worth considering, but it might just get you worried less about your work and more about yourself/covid/politics/etc. Reducing responsibility only works well as a method of making room for better things.
The best thing you can do right now is regular exercise. I know, I used to roll my eyes and quietly hate on people who suggested that because as god is my witness I have tried. The trick is twofold - it must be the right kind (strength building does not work), and something that you will enjoy. Personally I find mountain biking to be an euphoric miracle - a difficult trail profile provides the HIIT aspect and the change in terrain and scenery keeps attention firmly planted outside my head (on pain of bruises and scraped knees). Consider dancing/martial arts (well, not with covid I suppose?), rock climbing, mountain biking, windsurfing, yoga, running(eh...). Rumors have it that any sort of HIIT works miracles. For some people the social aspect of sports matters a lot - e.g. running with a mate is a good motivator and for you a social experience you seem to be missing.
Last but not least you will need to see two specialist - a psychiatrist and a therapist. If you have any serious psychosomatic effects (e.g. a serious sleep disruption, panic attacks, etc) the psychiatrist can put you on the level keel for a few weeks - just enough to get started with the therapy. Ask trusted friends for a referral and failing that just go by geographical proximity.
I recommend against changing careers - you have gotten into it for a reason that mattered to you, don't get out until you can articulate a good reason for changing it. And it pays the bills rather well. Shifting jobs to lower responsibility will probably give you immediate relief and is worth considering, but it might just get you worried less about your work and more about yourself/covid/politics/etc. Reducing responsibility only works well as a method of making room for better things.
The best thing you can do right now is regular exercise. I know, I used to roll my eyes and quietly hate on people who suggested that because as god is my witness I have tried. The trick is twofold - it must be the right kind (strength building does not work), and something that you will enjoy. Personally I find mountain biking to be an euphoric miracle - a difficult trail profile provides the HIIT aspect and the change in terrain and scenery keeps attention firmly planted outside my head (on pain of bruises and scraped knees). Consider dancing/martial arts (well, not with covid I suppose?), rock climbing, mountain biking, windsurfing, yoga, running(eh...). Rumors have it that any sort of HIIT works miracles. For some people the social aspect of sports matters a lot - e.g. running with a mate is a good motivator and for you a social experience you seem to be missing.
Last but not least you will need to see two specialist - a psychiatrist and a therapist. If you have any serious psychosomatic effects (e.g. a serious sleep disruption, panic attacks, etc) the psychiatrist can put you on the level keel for a few weeks - just enough to get started with the therapy. Ask trusted friends for a referral and failing that just go by geographical proximity.
I second the exercise thing. I needed to get out of the house when Covid first hit, and ended up hopping on my bike and just exploring around. I gradually wanted to hit up more of the city, and in SF that meant hills. Both my anxiety and my resting heart rate plunged as a result. I now listen to my heart to fall asleep because it's so gentle.
I imagine the hills essentially provide the HIIT type situation for me, and my previous realization before reading this was that I absolutely need to be out of breath, heart pounding, at least once a day.
It makes a world of difference.
I imagine the hills essentially provide the HIIT type situation for me, and my previous realization before reading this was that I absolutely need to be out of breath, heart pounding, at least once a day.
It makes a world of difference.
I think what you describe is not uncommon among high achievers (especially younger ones like you); and a lot of times, some combination of aging and significant life events can help one take a step back and see bigger pictures in life. For myself, it was probably a combination of quitting the company where I made my most significant professional contribution and leap upwards (where I spent several years, went from Engineer to Architect, and earned a significant portion of my current wealth; a period of time in my life where the career was my identity), as well as various life events (getting married, having a kid, etc.) that helped me step back, gradually over time, and see bigger pictures and adjust my perspectives on most things in life (work included).
In our lives we're often shown examples of people who've made big jumps in changing their lives, but smaller steps are possible too. For example, you don't necessarily have to quit your job to fix this. You can look into switching teams or roles within the company. You can even have a talk with your manager and gradually move out of some responsibilities. Perhaps you'd have to be okay with change in career trajectory in the company, if you do such a talk. The point is, the action you take doesn't have to be drastic. Small steps can help over time.
In our lives we're often shown examples of people who've made big jumps in changing their lives, but smaller steps are possible too. For example, you don't necessarily have to quit your job to fix this. You can look into switching teams or roles within the company. You can even have a talk with your manager and gradually move out of some responsibilities. Perhaps you'd have to be okay with change in career trajectory in the company, if you do such a talk. The point is, the action you take doesn't have to be drastic. Small steps can help over time.
> significant life events can help one take a step back and see bigger pictures in life.
I still get anxious some days. But nothing close to before a family member was diagnosed with cancer. Of course, everyone has their own response to these things, but for me the response was to realize how unimportant work is to me in the bigger picture.
Trying to meet project deadlines while going through that time in my life is something I don't ever want to deal with again. I almost lost it, and ended up emerging stronger than before.
I still get anxious some days. But nothing close to before a family member was diagnosed with cancer. Of course, everyone has their own response to these things, but for me the response was to realize how unimportant work is to me in the bigger picture.
Trying to meet project deadlines while going through that time in my life is something I don't ever want to deal with again. I almost lost it, and ended up emerging stronger than before.
Absolutely. I often feel bored, depressed, and anxious being a corporate software developer. It crushes my soul that we coddle junior developers so extensively instead of mentor them and that coddling defines everything from product quality to what code we are allowed to write and how fast we are allowed to ship it.
I was recently mobilized in the Army reserves to a deployment in Kuwait where I am a junior director in charge of help desk operations for a large military command. I am a late arrival to the unit. When I got here morale was low, productivity was low, things were falling through the cracks. Now things are really turning around. I am working 70-80 hours per week and it’s great. I building new software products that auto prioritize the work. The team sees the progress they are making in terms of numbers from day to day. Productivity is up and working harder with necessary direction has caused morale to jump up.
The military thing is less pay for longer hours but it’s so much more fulfilling to know we can set our own short term goals and crush them. I get to use my software skills to produce products that influence my leadership style and advertise team success in raw numbers. There is nobody complaining about how hard life is to slow me down. Since I am allowed to produce products at my own speed and since software product creation is generally foreign to the military my team is able to influence and empower its own success in a way others cannot and seeing that success in real time has been awesome.
Deployments are temporary though and I know I have to go back to dicking around with slow application code and large incompetent frameworks in the corporate world. About the last month of a deployment gets super depressing.
I was recently mobilized in the Army reserves to a deployment in Kuwait where I am a junior director in charge of help desk operations for a large military command. I am a late arrival to the unit. When I got here morale was low, productivity was low, things were falling through the cracks. Now things are really turning around. I am working 70-80 hours per week and it’s great. I building new software products that auto prioritize the work. The team sees the progress they are making in terms of numbers from day to day. Productivity is up and working harder with necessary direction has caused morale to jump up.
The military thing is less pay for longer hours but it’s so much more fulfilling to know we can set our own short term goals and crush them. I get to use my software skills to produce products that influence my leadership style and advertise team success in raw numbers. There is nobody complaining about how hard life is to slow me down. Since I am allowed to produce products at my own speed and since software product creation is generally foreign to the military my team is able to influence and empower its own success in a way others cannot and seeing that success in real time has been awesome.
Deployments are temporary though and I know I have to go back to dicking around with slow application code and large incompetent frameworks in the corporate world. About the last month of a deployment gets super depressing.
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Honestly I have been consumed by this kind of anxiety the last two years as a remote worker. Constant paranoia about what the team is doing and saying and what people are really motivated by.
The politics of my remote teams Have driven me to depression and constant fear.
What has genuinely helped me is to change my diet. I switched to a diet of nothing but meat and vegetables and began supplementing vitamin D.
I have noticed that my mood and emotional responses are significantly better when I fix my health. Like it or not, my crappy diet was causing me all kinds of problems and making my anxiety worse.
Another thing: I have a team member who literally sees everything positively. Whenever something happens, he automatically defaults to “this is a good thing because...” and tells a story to himself about why this is a positive thing.
I started trying to think that way.
When you have anxiety every miscommunication or misunderstanding gets rounded to a negative reaction. When your diet and health are bad, you have a much higher chance of being in an exhausted or poor mood and taking things the wrong way.
And yes - I understand some people suffer from more mental conditions. But even if you do have a mental condition of some sort, fixing your nutrition helps regardless.
The politics of my remote teams Have driven me to depression and constant fear.
What has genuinely helped me is to change my diet. I switched to a diet of nothing but meat and vegetables and began supplementing vitamin D.
I have noticed that my mood and emotional responses are significantly better when I fix my health. Like it or not, my crappy diet was causing me all kinds of problems and making my anxiety worse.
Another thing: I have a team member who literally sees everything positively. Whenever something happens, he automatically defaults to “this is a good thing because...” and tells a story to himself about why this is a positive thing.
I started trying to think that way.
When you have anxiety every miscommunication or misunderstanding gets rounded to a negative reaction. When your diet and health are bad, you have a much higher chance of being in an exhausted or poor mood and taking things the wrong way.
And yes - I understand some people suffer from more mental conditions. But even if you do have a mental condition of some sort, fixing your nutrition helps regardless.
>> What has genuinely helped me is to change my diet. I switched to a diet of nothing but meat and vegetables and began supplementing vitamin D.
>> I have noticed that my mood and emotional responses are significantly better when I fix my health. Like it or not, my crappy diet was causing me all kinds of problems and making my anxiety worse.
Been hearing a lot of this lately. I hope you don't mind me asking but, were you overweight prior to starting the diet?
I ask because I changed my diet for 1 week by cutting out all carbohydrates, only eating home cooked meat and vegetables. I didn't feel better. In fact, I felt worse.
I workout a lot though, and I'm in "good" shape. So my thinking was, maybe the lack of calories made me feel crappy.
>> I have noticed that my mood and emotional responses are significantly better when I fix my health. Like it or not, my crappy diet was causing me all kinds of problems and making my anxiety worse.
Been hearing a lot of this lately. I hope you don't mind me asking but, were you overweight prior to starting the diet?
I ask because I changed my diet for 1 week by cutting out all carbohydrates, only eating home cooked meat and vegetables. I didn't feel better. In fact, I felt worse.
I workout a lot though, and I'm in "good" shape. So my thinking was, maybe the lack of calories made me feel crappy.
What you are describing sounds like a "keto diet". It is expected that people don't feel so good until the body adjusts to the low-carb diet. Often people speak of "keto flu" in the initial days.
I wonder if it's worth staying on for me? I've listened a lot to how insulin is genuinely bad for everyone.
But, I don't suffer at all from weight issues. I have been lucky, and never have. I can eat all the carbs and sugar I want, and I don't feel bad, or get negative results.
This is making me wonder if the whole "insulin is bad" theory is true for everyone. I find I feel better, and have more energy, if I've eaten a lot. And of course this would be a problem, if I gained weight, had high blood pressure, etc.
The only thing I suffer from, that I'd like to improve, is a general apathy and lack of real spark. I lack a genuine DRIVE to really kick my ass into gear. Not sure if that's because of diet, or what...
But, I don't suffer at all from weight issues. I have been lucky, and never have. I can eat all the carbs and sugar I want, and I don't feel bad, or get negative results.
This is making me wonder if the whole "insulin is bad" theory is true for everyone. I find I feel better, and have more energy, if I've eaten a lot. And of course this would be a problem, if I gained weight, had high blood pressure, etc.
The only thing I suffer from, that I'd like to improve, is a general apathy and lack of real spark. I lack a genuine DRIVE to really kick my ass into gear. Not sure if that's because of diet, or what...
I am no dietician or doctor. However, I can say that you didn't try the diet long enough to conclude if it had any beneficial effect for you. Also, given that you were not aware about the possibility of keto-flu, I suppose you also didn't gather enough information about it before going on such a diet. I strongly recommend that you learn more about the diet before you try it again (if you do choose to do so). It is easy to fall into a pattern where you fail to get all your micronutrients on such a diet.
When I tried such a diet, it had a very positive effect on me and I will eventually go back to it.
When I tried such a diet, it had a very positive effect on me and I will eventually go back to it.
I’m aged 31, and completely relate. I think it really started with my current role but I haven’t been able to pinpoint when exactly, having been here just shy of 2.5 years now. I’ve lost count of the Sunday nights I’ve had filled with dread for the week ahead, or feeling a failure for not completing work quickly enough. Current COVID situation hasn’t made things any easier really. I often fantasise about leaving tech altogether, I feel like I’m slowly losing the mental energy needed to keep going day by day. Unfortunately, this is the only area in skilled in and with a partner to support I feel I need to think very carefully even though I’d like nothing more than to just resign tomorrow.
Echoing what others have said, I have found exercise helpful at times to quiet feelings of anxiety and stress, but I do still feel things lingering at the back of my mind at the beat of times.
Echoing what others have said, I have found exercise helpful at times to quiet feelings of anxiety and stress, but I do still feel things lingering at the back of my mind at the beat of times.
I have been in a lot of stress lately because of the workplace dynamics. Initially I couldn’t even know if it’s actually work related or if I am going through some kind of health issues. After thorough investigation I kind of realized its mostly the work pressure which is acting on my nerves and causing me to trip. Here is the rough approach I followed to start debugging myself.
Physical: 3 major components...
Sleep: Are you getting the right quantity and quality of sleep.
Exercises: Are you getting enough physical activity? Make sure your routine involves some sort of sport which you are excited about and one which takes you out in nature and sunlight.
Nutrition: Monitor what you are putting in your body and more importantly when. Cook food, real food. Make sure you are taking the necessary supplements like Vitamin D( most are deficient).
Mental:
Meditation: I am still trying to get the hang of it. Hearing a lot of great things and trying to spend at least half an hour in a sit.
Journaling: Game changer for me. https://neilkakkar.com/the-human-log.html
Learning: Last but not the least reading, listening or watching to new and interesting ideas and people.
Spiritual:
This is personal and you need to sit with yourself and analyse what's working and what’s not. Take some time off and listen to yourself. This is always the most tricky one.
Hope this rambling is of some value! Cheers!
Physical: 3 major components...
Sleep: Are you getting the right quantity and quality of sleep.
Exercises: Are you getting enough physical activity? Make sure your routine involves some sort of sport which you are excited about and one which takes you out in nature and sunlight.
Nutrition: Monitor what you are putting in your body and more importantly when. Cook food, real food. Make sure you are taking the necessary supplements like Vitamin D( most are deficient).
Mental:
Meditation: I am still trying to get the hang of it. Hearing a lot of great things and trying to spend at least half an hour in a sit.
Journaling: Game changer for me. https://neilkakkar.com/the-human-log.html
Learning: Last but not the least reading, listening or watching to new and interesting ideas and people.
Spiritual:
This is personal and you need to sit with yourself and analyse what's working and what’s not. Take some time off and listen to yourself. This is always the most tricky one.
Hope this rambling is of some value! Cheers!
I’ve driven my entire career off of anxiety. I recommend you do not quit what you are doing, but instead draw a line between personal and work life.
Your career choice may lend itself to anxiety, but know that the anxiety comes from the self and not the career.
Invest in your own health. Someone here said weight lifting isn’t as effective as other forms of exercise but I disagree.
You get runner’s high from cardio but what is critical is that you spend time doing a physical activity where you focus on your body doing the work.
If you’re lifting, focus on the muscles being used and your breathe. If you’re running, focus on the motion of your legs and your breathe. You get the idea.
Your career choice may lend itself to anxiety, but know that the anxiety comes from the self and not the career.
Invest in your own health. Someone here said weight lifting isn’t as effective as other forms of exercise but I disagree.
You get runner’s high from cardio but what is critical is that you spend time doing a physical activity where you focus on your body doing the work.
If you’re lifting, focus on the muscles being used and your breathe. If you’re running, focus on the motion of your legs and your breathe. You get the idea.
Additionally consider seeing a therapist. You can figure this on your own, this is valid, however a (good) therapist will put you down the path much quicker.
If you aren’t sure about therapy, or want to tackle it yourself, watch Dr. K on HealthyGamerGG https://twitch.tv/healthygamer_gg.
He also has the videos in podcast form.
If you aren’t sure about therapy, or want to tackle it yourself, watch Dr. K on HealthyGamerGG https://twitch.tv/healthygamer_gg.
He also has the videos in podcast form.
It seems like long time ago but I was in similar situation. I worked for a startup where I had lots of responsibilities. In the same time I had no control, I could not hire more people, I could not change the product road-map, I could not relax some silly requirements (requirements that users don't ask but management wants to see just because it looks cool).
I was in worse situation than you, when I wanted to quit I was threatened that I will be sued. I would have panic attacks at night, like constant flow of thoughts that would just continue no matter what I tried. Some nights I had weird feeling in my chest, like heart wanted to jump out (or stop).
To leave such toxic environment was healing experience. From the perspective of time I think I should have just left when I felt it's the right time and let them sue me..
Well, I hope you will find the right solution to your situation.
I was in worse situation than you, when I wanted to quit I was threatened that I will be sued. I would have panic attacks at night, like constant flow of thoughts that would just continue no matter what I tried. Some nights I had weird feeling in my chest, like heart wanted to jump out (or stop).
To leave such toxic environment was healing experience. From the perspective of time I think I should have just left when I felt it's the right time and let them sue me..
Well, I hope you will find the right solution to your situation.
Glad you are feeling better. Out of curiosity, what would be the reason for an employer suing you, assuming you behave with integrity? Did you sign a paper saying you were going to stay N years or deliver X, Y and Z? Never heard of that before.
It was boiling down to badly written contract. It was saying I'd stay with them for X years with Y months notice period if I wanted to leave. When I consulted this with lawyer she said it could be understood as Y months notice period from the time I'd give it (within X years period) - or Y months notice period but not before X years period was over. I learned very important lesson, to always consult documents with lawyer before signing them, even when they look OK at first glance and when you deal with people who you think you know.
Find a therapist. They will help you. But one way to deal with anxiety is to fully confront it and go straight through. Let the anxiety overwhelm you and then come out the other side of it. But I’d recommend doing that with a therapist but there are books too that will help. Basically imagine the worse case scenario and what would happen. Would you get fired? Demoted? Loss of face? Laughed out of the room? Most likely the worst case is not that bad. You are clearly a good programmer/developer so think of that rather than the job you have. Imagine yourself in a bunch of terrible jobs. Do those define you?
Thanks. Your response helps.
Thanks! You’re welcome. Glad to have done something helpful. A key part of it is to write down on paper what you think will happen, rate it on a scale of 100% and then provide evidence for that claim and then assess how likely is it that the bad thing would happen. The key part is to write this stuff down. Chronic anxiety can lead to depression etc... this happens when people feel trapped. You have no debt so I’d say you aren’t stuck in a job if you really hate it. If you are in the Bay Area, I’d recommend the feeling good institute. They have intensive programs if you are up for them that take a week. I’ve never done one but I follow their podcast with David Burns etc...
Some anxieties are things we have to confront that we put off. Almost like phobias. So if you are say anxious about being in conflict you need to practice being in conflict and visualize it. You can role play these things and do role reversal etc... lots of great tools to learn.
One thing in business is that if you identify a systematic or existential risk, you shouldn’t shoulder it alone. The business should have a team and a process around the risk. Then an individual can only manage so much risk and needs to delegate etc... or at least give it some prioritization. If the business can’t do that then you have to ask yourself if you want to be in that business and if you have the means/role to get them to where they should be. These are kind skills you can learn on the job, with a performance coach, or in therapy! You should be able to push back on unreasonable demands.
Some anxieties are things we have to confront that we put off. Almost like phobias. So if you are say anxious about being in conflict you need to practice being in conflict and visualize it. You can role play these things and do role reversal etc... lots of great tools to learn.
One thing in business is that if you identify a systematic or existential risk, you shouldn’t shoulder it alone. The business should have a team and a process around the risk. Then an individual can only manage so much risk and needs to delegate etc... or at least give it some prioritization. If the business can’t do that then you have to ask yourself if you want to be in that business and if you have the means/role to get them to where they should be. These are kind skills you can learn on the job, with a performance coach, or in therapy! You should be able to push back on unreasonable demands.
treat your job like job. at quitting time go_the_f*ck_home and don't even think about work. i know it's hard to do, but this is where all the anxiety is coming from, you are bringing your work home with you.
also... another reason i've experienced that caused anxiety is financial uncertainty. if you're making "several hundred thousand a year", how much are you investing, not saving? do you have a bunch of stocks and property? or is everything spent the second you get it? putting together a financial future for yourself through investments with diminish the anxiety entirely.
also... another reason i've experienced that caused anxiety is financial uncertainty. if you're making "several hundred thousand a year", how much are you investing, not saving? do you have a bunch of stocks and property? or is everything spent the second you get it? putting together a financial future for yourself through investments with diminish the anxiety entirely.
I'm 45 and got my first tech job at 38. Before that, I had been homeless for 2 years, from which I have PTSD. My first tech job was for $70k and no stock in SoCal. From there, I went to a startup making $105k with some worthless stock options to another startup making $140k with some more worthless stock options, to my current gig at a public company making about $210k with RSUs that are real money.
I got fired from the first 3 jobs because my PTSD got the better of me. Whenever I feel the slightest bit insecure at work, my anxiety instantly goes through the roof. I've been seeing a therapist for the past 6 or 7 years who's helped me immensely, but this whole forced WFH and inability to do anything outside of home is causing my anxiety to skyrocket. I recently had to take almost a month off to deal with it.
In spite of all that, I think I'm in the best place I've ever been with the PTSD and anxiety. Until I got my third tech job, I hadn't been able to put a meaningful amount of money away. At that third job was when I finally started feeling somewhat financially secure, because I'd put together a 6 month emergency fund.
After I got fired from that job, a 5 month job search ensued. By cutting expenses and applying for unemployment benefits, I had managed to only burn through 2/3 of that money, but, boy, was I just constantly triggered for about the last 3.5 months of the search.
My triggers are mostly based on financial security. When I feel like work isn't going well, I still see myself getting fired and ending up homeless, even though in the past year, I've managed to put away over a years' worth of expenses in savings and investment accounts that I can tap if I need to. Add on the stress of COVID and a general feeling of unproductivity at home, and, well, let's just say I'm feeling the strain, even after that entire month off work.
If we weren't going through both a plague and Great Depression II at the same time, and I could go into an office to work with my team, I'd probably be doing fine, just like I was before everything hit. Besides taking time off, I've been making sure to see my therapist regularly, seen a psychiatrist, and started taking CBD, magnesium, and GABA supplements, in addition to the vitamin D I take regularly.
All that, plus the support of my girlfriend, who's also lucky enough to still have her job working from home is pretty much what's keeping me together right now.
Other than COVID and WFH, there's also the fact that I'm a 45 year old software engineer. Let's just say I'm not looking forward to my next couple of job searches.
I got fired from the first 3 jobs because my PTSD got the better of me. Whenever I feel the slightest bit insecure at work, my anxiety instantly goes through the roof. I've been seeing a therapist for the past 6 or 7 years who's helped me immensely, but this whole forced WFH and inability to do anything outside of home is causing my anxiety to skyrocket. I recently had to take almost a month off to deal with it.
In spite of all that, I think I'm in the best place I've ever been with the PTSD and anxiety. Until I got my third tech job, I hadn't been able to put a meaningful amount of money away. At that third job was when I finally started feeling somewhat financially secure, because I'd put together a 6 month emergency fund.
After I got fired from that job, a 5 month job search ensued. By cutting expenses and applying for unemployment benefits, I had managed to only burn through 2/3 of that money, but, boy, was I just constantly triggered for about the last 3.5 months of the search.
My triggers are mostly based on financial security. When I feel like work isn't going well, I still see myself getting fired and ending up homeless, even though in the past year, I've managed to put away over a years' worth of expenses in savings and investment accounts that I can tap if I need to. Add on the stress of COVID and a general feeling of unproductivity at home, and, well, let's just say I'm feeling the strain, even after that entire month off work.
If we weren't going through both a plague and Great Depression II at the same time, and I could go into an office to work with my team, I'd probably be doing fine, just like I was before everything hit. Besides taking time off, I've been making sure to see my therapist regularly, seen a psychiatrist, and started taking CBD, magnesium, and GABA supplements, in addition to the vitamin D I take regularly.
All that, plus the support of my girlfriend, who's also lucky enough to still have her job working from home is pretty much what's keeping me together right now.
Other than COVID and WFH, there's also the fact that I'm a 45 year old software engineer. Let's just say I'm not looking forward to my next couple of job searches.
I'm not dealing with WFH that great. I miss the social interactions.
If it were me, I would, for the time being, chalk this up to the pandemic and look for ways to safely get my social needs better met.
I would not quit or do anything drastic. I would go into crisis management mode, which means take care of essential physical stuff, distract myself with games and videos when I'm too overwhelmed and assume things will improve when the pandemic is over.
If it were me, I would, for the time being, chalk this up to the pandemic and look for ways to safely get my social needs better met.
I would not quit or do anything drastic. I would go into crisis management mode, which means take care of essential physical stuff, distract myself with games and videos when I'm too overwhelmed and assume things will improve when the pandemic is over.
I do sometimes get anxious. Quitting caffeine and doing 10-20 minutes meditation everyday has helped my anxiety. Meditation has had a cumulative effect on my mental well-being. That is, the more time I spent meditating, the better I became at it and feel more at peace when compared to when I just started. Meditation also helped my sleep schedule which I believe helped with anxiety in turn. N=1 but may be it helps you too.
Sometimes. I sought out counseling, it really does make a difference. And if you don't feel like you can, presently, discuss these feelings with your husband or other close family/friends, a counselor is a good option. Or a priest if you're religious.
An important thing to face is that anxiety, severe anxiety especially, has a tendency to spiral. You feel stressed and your thoughts get dark ("I'm not good enough." "They all know I'm a fraud."). These thoughts increase your stress and the rate of such thoughts. You also tend to find yourself procrastinating or otherwise underperforming compared to your previous levels which again increases the stress and thoughts and leads to further, potential, drops in performance.
You have to break the cycle. Knowing that you're experiencing anxiety is incredibly important to accomplishing that. The next step is to seek help or, and this can be very hard to do, break that cycle yourself. You're already taking a break from work. Seek out a therapist or counselor, and just vent. Discuss what you're feeling. A good one will not prescribe anything unless it's actually needed (none of mine have ever even brought it up, as we found CBT and other approaches worked for me).
Also consider discussing with your boss ways to lighten your workload. I have had bosses do that for me in the past. Usually a month or so with fewer things on my plate, an ability to focus on the high priority things, was enough to reset myself. A lot of anxiety from work (for me) is caused by having too much to do, and feeling like nothing is getting done (too much multitasking, what should be 1 week tasks take 1-2 months because I'm not able to dedicate a solid week to them, things of that sort).
An important thing to face is that anxiety, severe anxiety especially, has a tendency to spiral. You feel stressed and your thoughts get dark ("I'm not good enough." "They all know I'm a fraud."). These thoughts increase your stress and the rate of such thoughts. You also tend to find yourself procrastinating or otherwise underperforming compared to your previous levels which again increases the stress and thoughts and leads to further, potential, drops in performance.
You have to break the cycle. Knowing that you're experiencing anxiety is incredibly important to accomplishing that. The next step is to seek help or, and this can be very hard to do, break that cycle yourself. You're already taking a break from work. Seek out a therapist or counselor, and just vent. Discuss what you're feeling. A good one will not prescribe anything unless it's actually needed (none of mine have ever even brought it up, as we found CBT and other approaches worked for me).
Also consider discussing with your boss ways to lighten your workload. I have had bosses do that for me in the past. Usually a month or so with fewer things on my plate, an ability to focus on the high priority things, was enough to reset myself. A lot of anxiety from work (for me) is caused by having too much to do, and feeling like nothing is getting done (too much multitasking, what should be 1 week tasks take 1-2 months because I'm not able to dedicate a solid week to them, things of that sort).
I've been looking into dropping out of my tech job specifically to start a consulting practice helping individual and teams through such things, because there are some common threads that everyone seems to struggle with. You said some of them yourself - areas out of your control, responsibility without authority, self-identity wrapped up in work. I hear those three all the time.
So you are not alone.
You are on the right track with how to cope - identify the problems and take some vacation time. The next step would be to discuss the problems with your boss - tell them what you need, and what you want. Tell them you aren't OK where things stand right now. Draw some boundaries about what is or is not OK in your work environment.
Also take some time to think about what areas of your work are truly your responsibility. Do people count on you because it is your job description to be the linchpin holding your team together? Or do they count on you because they know you can be counted on, without that actually being your role? I typically hear from people in the latter case - and when you bring it up with your boss, tell them that something needs to change - if you are the key person, your job title and compensation need to match that responsibility. You also need the autonomy to control everything you will be held accountable for. If they do not grant you those things, then you should step back and tell people to count on someone else, because they aren't giving you the tools you need to fulfill that role. Push the pressure you feel uphill to your boss, who is truly accountable for your team.
Those conversations can be tough. But in a situation like your where you don't hate the job, you just hate how it makes you feel, your employer wants the same thing you do (usually) - to make it a place where you want to work. Help them get you to that place by talking to them. Odds are, you'll work something out. If not, it is time to look for new work, but cross that bridge only if and when you come to it... for starters, just get the conversations going. After all, you have nothing to lose - if you don't fix this, you'll quit at some point anyway when the mental strain grows too much. So give them a chance to help you fix your job.
So you are not alone.
You are on the right track with how to cope - identify the problems and take some vacation time. The next step would be to discuss the problems with your boss - tell them what you need, and what you want. Tell them you aren't OK where things stand right now. Draw some boundaries about what is or is not OK in your work environment.
Also take some time to think about what areas of your work are truly your responsibility. Do people count on you because it is your job description to be the linchpin holding your team together? Or do they count on you because they know you can be counted on, without that actually being your role? I typically hear from people in the latter case - and when you bring it up with your boss, tell them that something needs to change - if you are the key person, your job title and compensation need to match that responsibility. You also need the autonomy to control everything you will be held accountable for. If they do not grant you those things, then you should step back and tell people to count on someone else, because they aren't giving you the tools you need to fulfill that role. Push the pressure you feel uphill to your boss, who is truly accountable for your team.
Those conversations can be tough. But in a situation like your where you don't hate the job, you just hate how it makes you feel, your employer wants the same thing you do (usually) - to make it a place where you want to work. Help them get you to that place by talking to them. Odds are, you'll work something out. If not, it is time to look for new work, but cross that bridge only if and when you come to it... for starters, just get the conversations going. After all, you have nothing to lose - if you don't fix this, you'll quit at some point anyway when the mental strain grows too much. So give them a chance to help you fix your job.
Yes. It’s not all due to responsibility and the content of the work. It’s also pressure coming from myself to do a good job and feeling angry at myself if I think I’m not performing up to my standards.
Generally by the time the anxiety or stress gets bad enough I make moves to switch jobs. It’s also likely you’re overworking and people won’t really notice or care if you take it easy for a month or two.
If you’re a manager or TL you can also look into delegating work. Even as an IC you can perhaps ask your manager to take something or for them to re-assign it.
Generally by the time the anxiety or stress gets bad enough I make moves to switch jobs. It’s also likely you’re overworking and people won’t really notice or care if you take it easy for a month or two.
If you’re a manager or TL you can also look into delegating work. Even as an IC you can perhaps ask your manager to take something or for them to re-assign it.
You earn several hundred thousand per year?!
Just quit when you can't take it anymore. You might need to move to a lower cost of living area or adjust your lifestyle, but you are in the 1% and would be fine.
Just quit when you can't take it anymore. You might need to move to a lower cost of living area or adjust your lifestyle, but you are in the 1% and would be fine.
If it is the Bay Area, you are mistaken in the ideal that there would be money saved up. An apartment is ~4K. A mortgage on the normal 1m plus home is at minimum 3k. At that salary you basically have zero tax deductions except for your house and any charity. Tax rate fed+state, insurance, 401k will reduce take home to ~150K (at 200K salary). If that pay number is not base and includes RSU which is taxed at a higher rate... even more in taxes. So take the middle ground 3500 per month on housing that is 42K. Property taxes in CA on $1m is around another 14K. Then home owners insurance, auto insurance, etc. is another 10K. The number goes down fast.
You can sell that expensive house and move to a lower cost of living. Even in the bay area, $300-500k is a good salary (they said several hundred thousand). $200k in that area would be different, and I think you might be missing some costs in your breakdown since that seems like a lot left over. Even if you could save $50k per year on $150k take-home pay, that's a lot better than most of us.
I can relate to this. Took a job in product management that some days makes me feel great and other days just makes me want to shut everything down and walk away. It’s cripplingly stressful sometimes the amount of responsibility and lack of time to get actual work done.
I find myself thinking about finding lower paying jobs with less responsibility often, but at the same time I feel exactly like you mentioned - I just need to get control over my thoughts and realize it’s just a job.
Anxiety is an odd beast.
I find myself thinking about finding lower paying jobs with less responsibility often, but at the same time I feel exactly like you mentioned - I just need to get control over my thoughts and realize it’s just a job.
Anxiety is an odd beast.
First, you need for your career not to be your identity. You're really going to have a hard time not having anxiety at work if work is your identity, because that makes stuff at work threatening to you - not just to your career, but to you.
Second, if he is at all supportive, talk to your husband. Of all people, he is the one who should most be on your side. If he doesn't know what fight you're fighting (even internally), how can he help you fight it?
Second, if he is at all supportive, talk to your husband. Of all people, he is the one who should most be on your side. If he doesn't know what fight you're fighting (even internally), how can he help you fight it?
Try this, whenever you feel anxious/sad etc. say to yourself "i forgive myself for having anxiety, i am only human" similarly if you are worried about something not happening just repeat "i forgive myself if it did not happened, i tried my best". If feelings are directed towards other person just forgive them and forgive yourself. This somehow calms the mind not sure why.
+1 on finding a Therapist and exercise. HIIT per other comments is great OR do medium intensity cardio to the point where you are tired (45-60 min @ 60% of max heart rate)...this will lower your anxiety and help you calm down and sleep. I'd also recommend learning some breathing/meditation techniques - box breathing is good. Anxiety is something you can learn to control with the right training and attention. I'd focus on these before making a major life-change. Medications are useful in the short term while you learn skills/tools. I'd stay away from benzodiazepines unless you are having panic attacks, etc. (they are hard to wean off of and can cause rebound syndrome -> make anxiety worse). You may want to explore high-quality broad-spectrum CBD oil supplementation. There is a lot of info available on reddit, etc.
I feel like I'm reading my exact same thoughts from the past year. (Other than the "several hundred thousand a year." After talking to my manager, it sounds like metaphorically, I'm on poverty line in the software world)
Exercise helps me a lot, especially with our current situation. I don't see anything wrong with sharing it with your husband as long as you're rational about it.
Regarding work, do you still think about work when you go home? Are you able to drop those thoughts once you head home? I just write notes down first if I still have my thoughts in my head that I don't want to lose. More social interactions might help too but you'll likely have to be more proactive about it than other people to get it going.
Exercise helps me a lot, especially with our current situation. I don't see anything wrong with sharing it with your husband as long as you're rational about it.
Regarding work, do you still think about work when you go home? Are you able to drop those thoughts once you head home? I just write notes down first if I still have my thoughts in my head that I don't want to lose. More social interactions might help too but you'll likely have to be more proactive about it than other people to get it going.
Not thinking about work when I’m at home is something I try to do but actively struggle with.
The note taking technique sounds helpful. I’ve tried this to some degree when I’m at work - going as far as to use note taking/organization software just to collect my thoughts and not accidentally drop things.
I’ll try it out with a pen and paper when I’m not at work.
The note taking technique sounds helpful. I’ve tried this to some degree when I’m at work - going as far as to use note taking/organization software just to collect my thoughts and not accidentally drop things.
I’ll try it out with a pen and paper when I’m not at work.
I felt pretty anxious for much of 2019 and let it affect relationships at home and my general mental state, though from the general outside view I continued to function and perform at a high level like it sounds like you have. I likewise thought about work waking up and going to sleep, and ascribed much of my anxiety to my work situation.
I started by looking at the root cause for why work was stressing me out, rather than focusing on trying to remediate the symptoms like lower sleep quality and nausea. In my case, I found that my work was successful but didn't encourage the creative thinking that energizes me... My Sunday scaries and bouts of anxiety largely stemmed from the fact that I chose a job where performing a huge number of tasks very quickly was an important part of success. I know you say you don't feel talking to others will help, and that may be the case, but I found weekly therapy talking through this root cause to be super illuminating for what steps to take. Take that with a grain of salt because I'm an extrovert and process well out loud.
The solution, as frankly non-scientific and silly as it might sound, was to listen to my gut by doing things that allowed me to sense what energized me. I was really focused on what I was good at, rather than what I liked doing. So I started [1] cancelling and then not making as many social plans, [2] using Insight Timer for a 3m meditation in the morning and night, and [3] scheduling 6 hour blocks on Saturdays where I couldn't plan anything or do chores to self-soothe. I also [4] deleted social media apps from my phone to avoid anxious scrolling. I found that these tactics exposed me to more boredom and immediate anxiety symptoms, but eventually cleared enough headspace for me to imagine what would feel good to do. Surprise, surprise, the answer wasn't more work.
Partially as a result of these steps, I pulled a dramatic switch and quit to start a company, and have had an about-face in my anxiety levels. But quitting was only a solution because the actual type of work I was doing wasn't energizing, and the relevant thing to do was to quiet down for a few months and listen to myself.
In the meantime, sending you so much support. Anxiety is so tough, but it will get better as you process what comes next.
I started by looking at the root cause for why work was stressing me out, rather than focusing on trying to remediate the symptoms like lower sleep quality and nausea. In my case, I found that my work was successful but didn't encourage the creative thinking that energizes me... My Sunday scaries and bouts of anxiety largely stemmed from the fact that I chose a job where performing a huge number of tasks very quickly was an important part of success. I know you say you don't feel talking to others will help, and that may be the case, but I found weekly therapy talking through this root cause to be super illuminating for what steps to take. Take that with a grain of salt because I'm an extrovert and process well out loud.
The solution, as frankly non-scientific and silly as it might sound, was to listen to my gut by doing things that allowed me to sense what energized me. I was really focused on what I was good at, rather than what I liked doing. So I started [1] cancelling and then not making as many social plans, [2] using Insight Timer for a 3m meditation in the morning and night, and [3] scheduling 6 hour blocks on Saturdays where I couldn't plan anything or do chores to self-soothe. I also [4] deleted social media apps from my phone to avoid anxious scrolling. I found that these tactics exposed me to more boredom and immediate anxiety symptoms, but eventually cleared enough headspace for me to imagine what would feel good to do. Surprise, surprise, the answer wasn't more work.
Partially as a result of these steps, I pulled a dramatic switch and quit to start a company, and have had an about-face in my anxiety levels. But quitting was only a solution because the actual type of work I was doing wasn't energizing, and the relevant thing to do was to quiet down for a few months and listen to myself.
In the meantime, sending you so much support. Anxiety is so tough, but it will get better as you process what comes next.
It’s so good to hear so many others feel like this and it’s not just me.
"the subtle art of not giving a fuck"
there are only a few fucks we can give in this world, make them count.
for me its family, health, and then bills in that order.
if i feel im being stressed out at work or side projects, i remind myself its just work i can replace it if they fire me.
there are only a few fucks we can give in this world, make them count.
for me its family, health, and then bills in that order.
if i feel im being stressed out at work or side projects, i remind myself its just work i can replace it if they fire me.
I think you could check out expertownership.com for the principles that will help in finding meaning and purpose to work. These are by the benhambrothers.com. They also have an app that you could check out.
If you were in it for the love of computing and still do, you owe it to yourself to find that love again. If not, quit, yolo.
Take some time off. A week isn’t time off. Take a year. Downsize if necessary.
> Do others here have similar feelings? How do you cope?
Yes - I don't know how I cope, but I have for decades. I've been feeling anxiety ridden since my 20s.
I'm not going to give you advice. I'm just going to be honest about how I feel right now. Honestly, I'm tired of people's advice. I really don't want to bother reading half of these comments. I'm sure a lot of the advice is solid.
I'm just not in the mood for it. Also, I feel like I can give you something better than advice. I can give you an honest glance at how I feel.
I feel tired and empty.
I'm in my 40's. I don't earn several hundred thousand a year, but I have a lot of responsibility. If I got hit by a bus, I could see my company spending 3-5 years of my salary to replace work I've done. I don't use that to get a raise. I leverage it too keep my job.
My anxiety is high. My random panic is very old hat these days, but I still feel it. Sometimes I deal with it better, sometimes I don't.
I've thought about suicide daily for years but it hasn't been an active thought lately. I really don't care about your thoughts about suicide and I'm not interested in talking to a therapist. I don't see much purpose in the world and I realize I've pretty much conditioned myself to work all the time. I feel like a shell of a person. I'm running on an anxiety driven autopilot.
I'm tired.
I don't talk about with my wife, not because I'm ashamed, but because she wants to leave this earth too. She's ready to go, but in reality, she isn't. Neither am I.
We don't because we don't want to devastate our family. It's not reflexive, we deeply care about them and don't want to scar them with us killing ourselves. We don't have kids, but our parents are still alive. I have siblings and they have children. Also, my siblings' health isn't great so I often wonder if I'm ever going to have to step in and help raise them at some point in the future. I don't want to abandon them.
But my wife and I talk about our "retirement plan" on occasion. We talk about it the same way other people talk about going to Paris, but the truth is we have no idea if it's actually going to happen.
I've been working from wake to sleep for years. I lose vacation time. I've been burned out for so many years it's not even worthy of small talk anymore. It's just the same thing. I haven't taken a real vacation in over a decade.
I'm the only one who works. If I lose my job, it will hurt. I haven't lost a job in 20 years. We don't own a home because I never felt like I could afford it, because we've lived in placed with high costs of living. I work really hard to keep my job because I'm afraid to go out and interview.
I try to be calm and collected and I'm surprised at how many people actually buy it. I try to act emotionally intelligent, but I'm not. Some believe it, others see through it. I really like half of my coworkers and despise about 10%.
I'm tired. I'm working late, but this is normal.
I'm not posting this for you. I'm posting it for everyone else who's absolutely burned out for too long and who doesn't feel like they have the luxury of quitting their job.
I don't even feel like I have it bad, but I wonder on a daily basis if this is my last good day. When does it all start going down hill? At what point will my wife and I execute on our retirement plan? Will we go to Paris first?
Don't be a fucking idiot. Your job isn't everything and it can consume you if you're a fucking idiot.
Yes - I don't know how I cope, but I have for decades. I've been feeling anxiety ridden since my 20s.
I'm not going to give you advice. I'm just going to be honest about how I feel right now. Honestly, I'm tired of people's advice. I really don't want to bother reading half of these comments. I'm sure a lot of the advice is solid.
I'm just not in the mood for it. Also, I feel like I can give you something better than advice. I can give you an honest glance at how I feel.
I feel tired and empty.
I'm in my 40's. I don't earn several hundred thousand a year, but I have a lot of responsibility. If I got hit by a bus, I could see my company spending 3-5 years of my salary to replace work I've done. I don't use that to get a raise. I leverage it too keep my job.
My anxiety is high. My random panic is very old hat these days, but I still feel it. Sometimes I deal with it better, sometimes I don't.
I've thought about suicide daily for years but it hasn't been an active thought lately. I really don't care about your thoughts about suicide and I'm not interested in talking to a therapist. I don't see much purpose in the world and I realize I've pretty much conditioned myself to work all the time. I feel like a shell of a person. I'm running on an anxiety driven autopilot.
I'm tired.
I don't talk about with my wife, not because I'm ashamed, but because she wants to leave this earth too. She's ready to go, but in reality, she isn't. Neither am I.
We don't because we don't want to devastate our family. It's not reflexive, we deeply care about them and don't want to scar them with us killing ourselves. We don't have kids, but our parents are still alive. I have siblings and they have children. Also, my siblings' health isn't great so I often wonder if I'm ever going to have to step in and help raise them at some point in the future. I don't want to abandon them.
But my wife and I talk about our "retirement plan" on occasion. We talk about it the same way other people talk about going to Paris, but the truth is we have no idea if it's actually going to happen.
I've been working from wake to sleep for years. I lose vacation time. I've been burned out for so many years it's not even worthy of small talk anymore. It's just the same thing. I haven't taken a real vacation in over a decade.
I'm the only one who works. If I lose my job, it will hurt. I haven't lost a job in 20 years. We don't own a home because I never felt like I could afford it, because we've lived in placed with high costs of living. I work really hard to keep my job because I'm afraid to go out and interview.
I try to be calm and collected and I'm surprised at how many people actually buy it. I try to act emotionally intelligent, but I'm not. Some believe it, others see through it. I really like half of my coworkers and despise about 10%.
I'm tired. I'm working late, but this is normal.
I'm not posting this for you. I'm posting it for everyone else who's absolutely burned out for too long and who doesn't feel like they have the luxury of quitting their job.
I don't even feel like I have it bad, but I wonder on a daily basis if this is my last good day. When does it all start going down hill? At what point will my wife and I execute on our retirement plan? Will we go to Paris first?
Don't be a fucking idiot. Your job isn't everything and it can consume you if you're a fucking idiot.
I have no debt. I earn several hundred thousand a year.
Some of the things at my work are under my control. Other things aren’t under my control. I feel like I have a lot of responsibility and lots of people are counting on me.
Lately, my anxiety level is sky high. I wake up in the morning with random work related thoughts that make me almost panic.
I keep all this to myself — my husband isn’t aware, and I’m not sure telling him about it will help anyone.
Do you work in tech? Have you thought about just quitting? I am not entirely sure what to do next. My career has essentially become my identity.
I’m not dealing with WFH that great. I miss the social interactions.
I grew up in a poor household. Most of my life has been to work hard but the follow the rules. Creativity or big ideas aren’t something I’m great at.
I’m considering quitting my job and finding a lesser paying job with lesser responsibility. On the other hand, I don’t feel that I need to really quit my job. I just need control over my anxiety and a better ability to control my thoughts?
Do others here have similar feelings? How do you cope?