Pro1 X: A Linux smartphone with slideout keyboard(fxtec.com)
fxtec.com
Pro1 X: A Linux smartphone with slideout keyboard
https://www.fxtec.com/pro1x
358 コメント
So a scam, like the Escobar phone[1]?
[1] Marques Brownlee - The Truth About the Escobar Folding Phone! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8FJSjy3bXA
[1] Marques Brownlee - Escobar Responds! A PSA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns8ydpZ5-4o
[1] Marques Brownlee - The Truth About the Escobar Folding Phone! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8FJSjy3bXA
[1] Marques Brownlee - Escobar Responds! A PSA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns8ydpZ5-4o
Guess there’s always the Gemini - bonus is that it effectively has a Psion 5 keyboard https://store.planetcom.co.uk/products/gemini-pda-1
Or even their next product which looks very promising: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transforme...
Looks nice, seriously tempted!
They overpromised and communicated horribly. But clearly not scam, I'm typing this with my pro1. And in the forum there were a bunch of people requesting a refund and reporting that they received them quickly.
There is a comment further down saying they received theirs 7 months after the promised delivery date.
So not a scam, but certainly over-optimistic promises.
So not a scam, but certainly over-optimistic promises.
I still consider my old Nokia E70[0] my favorite phone of all time, so I am definitely in the target demographic for this, as I'm 100% sold on the usefulness of a physical keyboard on a phone... However the CPU just doesn't match the "pro" branding, or the price range. I'd personally rather throw an extra $200-300 on top to get a flagship CPU and then it would be close to a perfect phone for me! As it currently is, the Snapdragon 662 shipped in the pro-1x gets blown away by my current Pixel 5's Snapdragon 765G - and Pixel phones recently have been generally characterized as having "above-average hardware specs but not enough to justify flagship prices".
Separately, I am also curious for a phone like this that could run Android, LineageOS, and Ubuntu Touch - are there "dual boot" options in the mobile space? With 256GB storage it seems like it should be possible. I'd like to have old reliable Android as a daily driver, but maybe periodically drop into a less stable but more flexible environment like ubuntu.
[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_E70
Separately, I am also curious for a phone like this that could run Android, LineageOS, and Ubuntu Touch - are there "dual boot" options in the mobile space? With 256GB storage it seems like it should be possible. I'd like to have old reliable Android as a daily driver, but maybe periodically drop into a less stable but more flexible environment like ubuntu.
[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_E70
Seems like we're looking for similar things. I am currently waiting for delivery of my Astro Slide [0]
[0]: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transforme... which has android / linux dual boot. Not sure if performance are what you are looking for.
[0]: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transforme... which has android / linux dual boot. Not sure if performance are what you are looking for.
I had a Cosmo Communicator and sold it in short order when I realized that:
- Pinephone has better Linux support and always will. Planet Computers' phones all have mediatek chips, which will be stuck on ancient kernels with dogshit driver support for things like the camera.
- It will be impossible to find parts, so I would have to gingerly baby the thing and worry about the hassle productivity loss if my phone broke.
- The thing is huge. Just about the size of a pinephone if not larger. The keyboard addon to the pinephone looks like it will turn into something identical, albeit with a slower processor and ancient GPU but at least parts are found plenty if something breaks. It's something to think about.
I love the pinephone (I own one) but the specs are pretty weak. Is the situation with support forthe SOCs used in the Planet devices as dire as you suggest? I was considering them but being stuck on an archaic kennel is a deal breaker.
I'm more than ready to pay for a premium device with the same level of hardware support the Pinephone has but I guess I'll need to keep waiting.
I'm more than ready to pay for a premium device with the same level of hardware support the Pinephone has but I guess I'll need to keep waiting.
This looks much more like what I'm looking for alright! Doing some background research it looks like they had some issues with their chipset supplier and had to downgrade the chip a little, but performance benchmarks put it ~around the same place as my Pixel 5's current CPU, which I'd say is much more acceptable (if not totally cutting edge flagship-tier) for a phone in 2021!
At $576 (Edit: now $621, looks like the early bird just sold out!) this also seems like a much better deal than the pro-1x at $800! I'm always worried though when the "pledge store" for these things says things like "Ships March 2021!" but their most recent update says they've just finalized their PCB and are just starting testing...
At $576 (Edit: now $621, looks like the early bird just sold out!) this also seems like a much better deal than the pro-1x at $800! I'm always worried though when the "pledge store" for these things says things like "Ships March 2021!" but their most recent update says they've just finalized their PCB and are just starting testing...
Yeah, there was some weirdness on that - they tried to change it and things went wrong.
If you have a look at the updates, specifically the Week 42 Update, they have a revised timeline:
Final Astro - PCB March 2021
Production Master - March 2021
Final Testing and Debugging - May 2021
Device Certifications - May 2021
Mass Production Start – June 2021
First shipping - June 2021
They're more or less on track, it seems...
If you have a look at the updates, specifically the Week 42 Update, they have a revised timeline:
Final Astro - PCB March 2021
Production Master - March 2021
Final Testing and Debugging - May 2021
Device Certifications - May 2021
Mass Production Start – June 2021
First shipping - June 2021
They're more or less on track, it seems...
Not sure if that's still true, but a few months ago when I ordered mine early bird had always 0~3 in stock and they added some back the day after it sold out, every time. Check again tomorrow if you're interested but only at a discount.
Wow you're entirely correct, I just checked again 3 days later and there's now magically 3 in stock again :) Thanks for the tip!
August is likely target date for astro.
Are you sure that thing is legit? As a designer, I’m looking over the pics and my gut feel is that something is off. Look at the picture of the girl taking the selfie, where’s the hinges like the guy to the left, or the sandwhich line which isn’t visible?
Anyone else have comments on the included photos?
I mean I do hope it is legit.
Anyone else have comments on the included photos?
I mean I do hope it is legit.
I do hope too, and it seems so to me. At least the product seems real, they're sending updates on the board etc. they're building. And their previous products are real ones, with users right here on this thread.
Also, the overall design changed a bit since those pictures were made. They had some issue with the processor not being available anymore iirc, and they made some changes. Changes including a significantly smaller battery, and we all complained about it so they went back to the original battery _but_ with a thicker phone.
I still have some doubts. I have a blackberry keyone that I loved but that is half broken since a bike accident so I have to replace it. And a linux phone (with multi boot to android in case linux isn't up to the task for a phone, which I doubt a little) seemed like a good replacement. But portrait keyboard, and blackberry's keyboard quality might be a lot better than this solution.. I wish they didn't stop making blackberry (on android) phones after keytwo =/
Also, the overall design changed a bit since those pictures were made. They had some issue with the processor not being available anymore iirc, and they made some changes. Changes including a significantly smaller battery, and we all complained about it so they went back to the original battery _but_ with a thicker phone.
I still have some doubts. I have a blackberry keyone that I loved but that is half broken since a bike accident so I have to replace it. And a linux phone (with multi boot to android in case linux isn't up to the task for a phone, which I doubt a little) seemed like a good replacement. But portrait keyboard, and blackberry's keyboard quality might be a lot better than this solution.. I wish they didn't stop making blackberry (on android) phones after keytwo =/
I have a Gemini that can triple boot ex. between Android, Debian, and Sailfish, so it's been done, but that was designed in by the manufacturer. There used to be some Android multiboot hack (multirom or something?), but I don't know details or if it's still around.
The Nokia E72 was my favourite phone form-factor. I really wanted to try Android but was so resistive to keyboardless-phones that I bought a HTC ChaCha, regretted it immediately, and finally relented. I still miss a keyboard.
There's "dual boot" in mobile space https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GjXQFnMHGY :)
I still think the best keyboard smartphone were my BlackBerries, and I still miss typing on a HW keyboards.
There's no free lunch, and it's easy to overlook the compromises involved in the devices that used to have physical keyboards. By modern standards, blackberrys had a woefully small screen and phones with slideout keyboards were very fat. This device doesn't look fat which suggests to me that the compromise might be either battery life or low processor power.
That said, although this is definitely not for me, it's generally good for the market to have some devices that are genuinely different rather than just another "me too" Samsung/iphone lookalike.
That said, although this is definitely not for me, it's generally good for the market to have some devices that are genuinely different rather than just another "me too" Samsung/iphone lookalike.
It's kind of crazy to me that people are concerned about the thickness of phones, yet nobody bats an eye when they keep getting bigger and bigger in the other dimensions. I guess screen size trumps all other concerns.
Right. My Palm Pre fit in my pocket better than any modern smartphone where almost all models are starting to push a 6" diagonal. The corner invariably digs into my hip when I sit down.
For women it matters less since pockets in women's clothing are a joke
For women it matters less since pockets in women's clothing are a joke
Same here. It's near impossible to get a <5" phone nowadays, and everything else is too big for me. I really really liked my Pre3, maybe I'll just start using it again when my Samsung A3 finally dies :)
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It's to do with pockets, at a guess. There's no penalty for expanding in the height and width dimensions up to the limits of a back pocket, which is comparatively huge.
If you expand in the depth direction, the pocket can't expand far before it starts to feel uncomfortable, particularly if you sit on it.
If you expand in the depth direction, the pocket can't expand far before it starts to feel uncomfortable, particularly if you sit on it.
I put my phone in my front pocket. My front pocket can accommodate reasonably thick items like my wallet, but if they're too wide and long, it interferes with my ability to bend at the waist.
Keys and change go in front pockets. Things with screens don't go in those pockets.
Keys in my left pocket, phone in my right.
People sit on their phones?
It might be local clothing design, but I haven't seen a back pocket so low that you could actually sit on a phone.
The geometry works out that the pocket is halfway from your back and your leg, so when you sit the phone would be at a 45 degree angle.
Half of it would be under compression from your weight in the horizontal direction, and the other would be in tension from the pocket pulling it into the vertical direction.
Not a healthy situation for your comfort, your phone's integrity, and the pocket's half-life, regardless of a phone's dimensions. In fact, a larger surface-area phone would work even more as a lever than a vaguely thicker one.
So I just put the phone in the front pockets.
The geometry works out that the pocket is halfway from your back and your leg, so when you sit the phone would be at a 45 degree angle.
Half of it would be under compression from your weight in the horizontal direction, and the other would be in tension from the pocket pulling it into the vertical direction.
Not a healthy situation for your comfort, your phone's integrity, and the pocket's half-life, regardless of a phone's dimensions. In fact, a larger surface-area phone would work even more as a lever than a vaguely thicker one.
So I just put the phone in the front pockets.
I didn't suggest it was a good place to put it, just that people do.
It is really fat: about 14mm, nearly twice as thick as most current phones.
That's the thickness of the original Motorola Droid, which was comfortable imo, I loved that phone.
Although the display is bigger on this Pro1X, I don't think it would be that uncomfortable to use, as the times of being able to grip the phone by both sides with one hand are long past. The way I hold them now is by having 4 fingers behind and praying it doesn't slip, I guess.
Although the display is bigger on this Pro1X, I don't think it would be that uncomfortable to use, as the times of being able to grip the phone by both sides with one hand are long past. The way I hold them now is by having 4 fingers behind and praying it doesn't slip, I guess.
I don’t mind more thick than current phones. There’s absolutely no reason to think every user has the same demands for form factors. Just like some people would only ever buy a truck and others sedans.
I don't get the use case for thin phones, and believe it's just marketing-driven preference. We're told thin phones are better over and over, and slowly the market starts to believe it because the message is saturated and there's no counter-message to it.
It couldn't be that thick phones are heavier to carry around. The difference between a 8mm phone and a 16mm phone couldn't be more than 200 grams or so. That's making you sweat as you carry it? It couldn't be that it's tough to hold up to your ear. My Nokia 7210 was probably one of my best phones ever and it was by today's standards a thick brick. Google tells me it was a whopping 17.5mm thick. So what is it? What practical benefit do you get from a thin phone? The only thing I can think of is the ability to carry it stealthily in your pocket, but is that really the driving use case?
It couldn't be that thick phones are heavier to carry around. The difference between a 8mm phone and a 16mm phone couldn't be more than 200 grams or so. That's making you sweat as you carry it? It couldn't be that it's tough to hold up to your ear. My Nokia 7210 was probably one of my best phones ever and it was by today's standards a thick brick. Google tells me it was a whopping 17.5mm thick. So what is it? What practical benefit do you get from a thin phone? The only thing I can think of is the ability to carry it stealthily in your pocket, but is that really the driving use case?
The HTC Dream was 17.1mm thick. That was a nice size because you could thumb it open with one hand. It also had a decent keyboard with tactile feedback. I'm not sure anyone wants a clicky-clicky mechanical keyboard on a phone but I doubt they want a sea of dead chiclets either. So some thickness given over to key travel and click is IMHO perfectly fine.
And that's without a case! I can't even imagine what a case would start to look like for this thing. It would be its own feat of engineering...
Then again, if you're always holding it with two hands, who needs a case, right? :þ
Then again, if you're always holding it with two hands, who needs a case, right? :þ
Half-height, allowing the screen to slide out? Probably with a separate one with 4-corner shock bumpers on the screen.
A completely removable sleeve is more useful for such a phone imo
It does look like two phones. I wonder if it wouldn't be better to make it actually two phones (or separate phone-sized devices), so you can use the touchscreen part as a phone, and have the other part be a pluggable keyboard + powerbank.
Issue with separate devices is now half the time I won't be carrying the keyboard because it's extra optional bulk. Also the connection would probably be much crappier meaning the form factor won't be as convenient, the keyboard being part of the phone means they're pretty well connected where the two separate pieces version doesn't have one.
The textblade (https://waytools.com/ ) would be the ideal form factor in my mind. Unfortunately, it has been 6 years since they said they were going to release it though there have been people (testers) using it for real for several years.
If it's not released it's pretty suspicious that they let you buy one without mentioning that.
edit: this thing looks like a total scam. Announced as being 12 weeks out in 2015, taking orders, and still not released in April 2021, yet still taking orders? That's more than a blown deadline at this point. They're lucky they haven't seen legal action.
edit: this thing looks like a total scam. Announced as being 12 weeks out in 2015, taking orders, and still not released in April 2021, yet still taking orders? That's more than a blown deadline at this point. They're lucky they haven't seen legal action.
I saw the Textblade the first day it appeared on HN and I still droll over it. It's a real shame the company has been so shady (and they were from the start). I would really love for someone to clone it and actually bring it to market.
I own one. Mine feels no thicker than the Samsung Galaxy in a case. As long as it perceptually feels more or less like a box of playing cards, I'm not worried about thickness.
That's about as thick as most phones with a "Tuf" case.
This is such a pointlessly negative comment. Not all phones are designed for you personally, and what you perceive as a "compromise" can be a selling point for someone else.
My favorite keyboard phone was the Blackberry Passport. It had a 1:1 4.5in screen, and a physical keyboard with capacitive sensors on it so that you could scroll by swiping your thumb on the keyboard rather than the screen (among many other useful gestures).
IMO that's the best form-factor for a phone ever. Peak productivity and excellent build quality, a great screen, and a perfect size. The only problem was that it came from a doomed company.
Maybe you think the 4.5in screen is a "compromise", or the 1:1 aspect ratio, or the shape of the device (exact dimensions of an actual passport). All of those were things were why I loved the phone so much.
It's just a shame it came from a doomed company.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry_Passport
My favorite keyboard phone was the Blackberry Passport. It had a 1:1 4.5in screen, and a physical keyboard with capacitive sensors on it so that you could scroll by swiping your thumb on the keyboard rather than the screen (among many other useful gestures).
IMO that's the best form-factor for a phone ever. Peak productivity and excellent build quality, a great screen, and a perfect size. The only problem was that it came from a doomed company.
Maybe you think the 4.5in screen is a "compromise", or the 1:1 aspect ratio, or the shape of the device (exact dimensions of an actual passport). All of those were things were why I loved the phone so much.
It's just a shame it came from a doomed company.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry_Passport
The Unihertz Titan could be described as a spiritual successor to the BlackBerry Passport: similar form factor, rugged build quality and long battery life, but runs Android 10. I'm typing on one right now.
I don't like using phones without a case because they're too thin for me. I get cramps.
So thickness wouldn't be an issue for me. I hope I'm not the only one.
So thickness wouldn't be an issue for me. I hope I'm not the only one.
I've used its predecessor the Pro1 with Sailfish OS for 4 weeks. (While having fond memories of using my Nokia Communicator in the past for SSHing into servers to fix things.)
For me, the compromises were not worth it. The phone is too clunky and heavy and virtual keyboards are good enough these days.
For me, the compromises were not worth it. The phone is too clunky and heavy and virtual keyboards are good enough these days.
> For me, the compromises were not worth it. The phone is too clunky and heavy and virtual keyboards are good enough these days.
There are compromises like I said in previous posts. Frankly I love the physical keyboard not for long form text, but for my terminal operations or just plain old character-by-character cut/copy/paste edits in text. If there were a virtual Ctrl key on my on screen keyboard so I could do Ctrl + V, then maybe I would swap to something else too, but for now this fxtec takes the mobile cake for anything more than a 7 word swype reply to a text.
There are compromises like I said in previous posts. Frankly I love the physical keyboard not for long form text, but for my terminal operations or just plain old character-by-character cut/copy/paste edits in text. If there were a virtual Ctrl key on my on screen keyboard so I could do Ctrl + V, then maybe I would swap to something else too, but for now this fxtec takes the mobile cake for anything more than a 7 word swype reply to a text.
>If there were a virtual Ctrl key on my on screen keyboard so I could do Ctrl + V, then maybe I would swap to something else too
Hacker's Keyboard and AnySoftKeyboard have this. Also, Termux can add these keys above your keyboard for terminal tasks at least.
Hacker's Keyboard and AnySoftKeyboard have this. Also, Termux can add these keys above your keyboard for terminal tasks at least.
> and virtual keyboards are good enough these days
Good ebought for what, a quick comment on HN?
I made four onscreen errors just typing that first sentence because my fingers weren't perfectly centred on the pretend keys. And look, Gboard has no idea how to correct ebought.
Good ebought for what, a quick comment on HN?
I made four onscreen errors just typing that first sentence because my fingers weren't perfectly centred on the pretend keys. And look, Gboard has no idea how to correct ebought.
IMO the Nokia E7 was the perfect phone in all dimensions. Modern phones are impractically large. Man, I'd love to see some innovation in phone design. How did we go so far backwards?
For english language, swipe typing coupled with autocorrect works astonishingly well. So much so that I use it regularly because of lazyness.
What segment does the physical keyboard appeal to? Youngins were born and raised touching the screen, so it's archaic to them. Old timers are jaded at this point to either wait for their dream phone or buy any cheap crap.
So who's the target for this 900 usd device?
What segment does the physical keyboard appeal to? Youngins were born and raised touching the screen, so it's archaic to them. Old timers are jaded at this point to either wait for their dream phone or buy any cheap crap.
So who's the target for this 900 usd device?
Honestly, I find that it works astonishingly poorly. Autocorrect is often wrong, sometimes showing the right thing milliseconds before second-guessing itself into a totally wrong word, so now I'm having to backspace because for some reason typing the actual letters I want is bad user interface.
Agreed regarding target audience, though.
Agreed regarding target audience, though.
I turned off autocorrect years ago and never looked back. Sometimes I misspell a word but it’s better than typing a word slightly wrong and having a completely different word pop out. I’ll still use autocomplete sometimes to save some typing.
Apple? My swiftkey on android is sooo much better.
I used Swype for a long time and loved it.
Then it was killed, and Android shipped its default keyboard ("gboard") with one that included swiping. I've used it ever since, not thinking about it, but it has never been as good as Swype, and about 20% of my words are errors. I don't think about it much because their autocorrect suggestions are pretty good when you tap on a word, but it really is annoying. Honestly, it's insane that I keep swiping because it would be faster just to type than to swipe and correct every fifth word.
I have now downloaded Swiftkey. We'll see if it's any better. My first gripe is that the backspace key doesn't delete a whole word, which, when you're swiping, seems natural to me (either the whole word is right or it's not), but I'm sure there are settings and improvements I can make as I get used to it.
(Edit: The translate as you type feature is a perhaps-niche but killer feature for me. I often have to write to people in my poor Spanish, and always had to go back and forth between the Translate app and the app I was writing it. Doing it as I type is amazing.)
Then it was killed, and Android shipped its default keyboard ("gboard") with one that included swiping. I've used it ever since, not thinking about it, but it has never been as good as Swype, and about 20% of my words are errors. I don't think about it much because their autocorrect suggestions are pretty good when you tap on a word, but it really is annoying. Honestly, it's insane that I keep swiping because it would be faster just to type than to swipe and correct every fifth word.
I have now downloaded Swiftkey. We'll see if it's any better. My first gripe is that the backspace key doesn't delete a whole word, which, when you're swiping, seems natural to me (either the whole word is right or it's not), but I'm sure there are settings and improvements I can make as I get used to it.
(Edit: The translate as you type feature is a perhaps-niche but killer feature for me. I often have to write to people in my poor Spanish, and always had to go back and forth between the Translate app and the app I was writing it. Doing it as I type is amazing.)
The one thing that made Swype awesome compared to GBoard is the configurability. On GBoard, it appears to be impossible to turn off auto space insertion after a predicted swipe whereas on Swype, one could turn that off: this allowed swiping away at long urls a word at a time.
Swype was killed? I still have and use it. It came preinstalled on my Galaxy S6.
It was killed from the app store. Maybe it's still available to OEMs to preinstall on their devices.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/21/17030216/nuance-discontin...
https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/21/17030216/nuance-discontin...
Swype or at least the functionality behind it still exists with Swiftkey on Android.
Ayer having tried Swiftkey for a few hours, I've reverted back to gboard. I don't know if my old keyboard knows me more or I know it, but Swiftkey just could not get words right, even when I could clearly see the trail hitting the letters.
Maybe its prediction was turned up too high, and yet not correctly? When I finally gave up I had been trying to write The Warmth of Other Suns, and it could not get "Suns," no matter how slowly and accurately I did it, presumably because "subs" or "sins" are much more common words. (Actually gboard has trouble with Suns right now too, but not as bad.)
I'm waiting for one of these to come installed with GPT-3. Presumably a GPT-3 model could look at a sentence and work out which sword doesn't fit...
Maybe its prediction was turned up too high, and yet not correctly? When I finally gave up I had been trying to write The Warmth of Other Suns, and it could not get "Suns," no matter how slowly and accurately I did it, presumably because "subs" or "sins" are much more common words. (Actually gboard has trouble with Suns right now too, but not as bad.)
I'm waiting for one of these to come installed with GPT-3. Presumably a GPT-3 model could look at a sentence and work out which sword doesn't fit...
Yeah, I'm not using swype. Just SwiftKey but I find it gets it wrong most of the time. It occasionally picks up typos and I'm actually writing this comment without manually correcting any errors. To try and gauge how well it does. And I don't type well. It seems. To be decent enough. Almost anyway.
Tkl that last sentence.ortoq.
(till that last sentence of two...)
Tkl that last sentence.ortoq.
(till that last sentence of two...)
I've been getting increasingly annoyed with SwiftKey lately. It's so fucking dumb, is unbelievable. I'll be typing a sentence with a really common phrase in it and it will substitute some absolutely ridiculous word I've never used in my life for the everyday one I wanted to type.
Inspired by this thread, I just went looking for an alternative and found Yandex.Keyboard. I've been using their browser on Android for a long time but had no idea they did a keyboard too. First impressions are pretty good. In typing this comment, I've had to correct 2 words so far. With SwiftKey, I'd have had that many corrections to do in each sentence!
YMMV --as I said, I've only been using it for under an hour
Inspired by this thread, I just went looking for an alternative and found Yandex.Keyboard. I've been using their browser on Android for a long time but had no idea they did a keyboard too. First impressions are pretty good. In typing this comment, I've had to correct 2 words so far. With SwiftKey, I'd have had that many corrections to do in each sentence!
YMMV --as I said, I've only been using it for under an hour
Apple swipe is f'n horrible. I've disabled every autocorrect I can and it still goes back and will change previous words to the word I've typed when it decides I don't know what the hell I'm typing.
I have a hybrid experience where I really need swipe to get things done fast, but I always disable autocorrect, because when I actually type I don't like to be corrected. This way I can put the anger on me rather than the software.
I'm the same way. Nothing makes me want to throw a device through the wall like it autocorrecting me in a way I don't want. this is actually a reason I still use android phones even though I agree iphone probably has better security
You can have both, with no drawbacks.
My favourite phone ever designed was the BlackBerry Priv. It was an Android-based smartphone with a full-sized (5.4in) touchscreen, an completely-hidden slide-out physical keyboard, that also doubled as a touch-sensitive pad.
You could "swipe" (touchscreen-style) over the keys, and then press down on those same physical keys simultaneously. But you could also slide it back into the phone, and use it just like any other iPhone or Android ever made.
It's the best of both worlds, really.
My favourite phone ever designed was the BlackBerry Priv. It was an Android-based smartphone with a full-sized (5.4in) touchscreen, an completely-hidden slide-out physical keyboard, that also doubled as a touch-sensitive pad.
You could "swipe" (touchscreen-style) over the keys, and then press down on those same physical keys simultaneously. But you could also slide it back into the phone, and use it just like any other iPhone or Android ever made.
It's the best of both worlds, really.
Yes, plus not losing 1/2 the screen to an on-screen keyboard.
Was almost pure android, incredibly secure. Blackberry got it right, then bailed.
Was almost pure android, incredibly secure. Blackberry got it right, then bailed.
My KeyOne is actually better due to losing half the screen - I remember trying to open a webpage and a notes app and type in some notes from the page. My Oneplus 3, whenever I pulled up the keyboard, would shift everything up, making it impossible to see what I had focused on. My KeyOne never shifted the view though, because the keyboard was already there.
Even better is the effect this has on battery life. The screen is the biggest battery drain on nearly every phone, and so having a little less means my phone lasts all weekend on a single charge. Because I don't watch video on my phone (or read the bottom half of the screen) anyways, there's really no drawback for me to "losing" a third of my screen, only benefits
Even better is the effect this has on battery life. The screen is the biggest battery drain on nearly every phone, and so having a little less means my phone lasts all weekend on a single charge. Because I don't watch video on my phone (or read the bottom half of the screen) anyways, there's really no drawback for me to "losing" a third of my screen, only benefits
My comment was about how on-screen, software keyboards eat 1/2 the active screen.
The Priv had a slide out hardware keyboard, the optimal solution IMO. Full size screen on the device, hardware keyboard too.
I know what you mean, but the keyone didn't lose 1/2 its screen, to lose something, you have to have it first. If it lost 1/2 its screen, it would end up with 1/4 of phone's length with usable screen.
Agree with all you said about software keyboards.
The Priv had a slide out hardware keyboard, the optimal solution IMO. Full size screen on the device, hardware keyboard too.
I know what you mean, but the keyone didn't lose 1/2 its screen, to lose something, you have to have it first. If it lost 1/2 its screen, it would end up with 1/4 of phone's length with usable screen.
Agree with all you said about software keyboards.
My mistake then, I completely misread what you meant. I thought it was more in the Steve Jobs meaning of losing half the screen; I.E., it's taken up by the keyboard.
Ex-Blackberry here. BB didn't bail; not enough people were buying the phones for hardware manufacturing to be self-sustainable.
Yes, but, you cannot build a new brand in a couple of years. If you look at the Wikipedia article, you'll see the Priv, the first all android Blackberry, was released in 2015, and they bailed in late 2016.
You cannot re-invent a brand in a bit more than a year. They should have expected years to see significant adoption.
Worse, the people who trusted Blackberry, often didn't want a Chinese company making their hardware.
Sad really.
You cannot re-invent a brand in a bit more than a year. They should have expected years to see significant adoption.
Worse, the people who trusted Blackberry, often didn't want a Chinese company making their hardware.
Sad really.
What really got me, was how much people I showed the Priv to, and the slide out keyboard loved it.
An example, I was on a plane. Guy next to me, a Canadian, had never heard of or seen the Priv, and had a Samsung.
When he saw me scrolling a webpage up and down with the touchpad/hardware keyboard, use it for gestures, then type with swipe completion via the hardware keyboard, and keep a full screen, he immediately wanted one.
I had to tell him the last security update was 2 months ago, and it looked like the end of line.
How many people didn't even know? I wonder that, to this day.
Further to that, phone purchase cycles are often 3 or 4 years. They gave it no chance IMO.
An example, I was on a plane. Guy next to me, a Canadian, had never heard of or seen the Priv, and had a Samsung.
When he saw me scrolling a webpage up and down with the touchpad/hardware keyboard, use it for gestures, then type with swipe completion via the hardware keyboard, and keep a full screen, he immediately wanted one.
I had to tell him the last security update was 2 months ago, and it looked like the end of line.
How many people didn't even know? I wonder that, to this day.
Further to that, phone purchase cycles are often 3 or 4 years. They gave it no chance IMO.
> 2015
iPhone happened 2007, Android, 2008. Their “people love our software never hardware” self deception had completely wiped positive brand values by that point, along with trust from the market towards mobile hardware keyboard, because BB engaged anyone getting close to their level of sophistication in the technology, rendering competitors’ implementations inconsistent and lackluster as the result.
I still don’t fully understand serial suicides in phone market 2007-2012, it was strange times. Lots of companies were politely asked to finish their free lunch session and most decided to burn their retirement instead of accepting it.
iPhone happened 2007, Android, 2008. Their “people love our software never hardware” self deception had completely wiped positive brand values by that point, along with trust from the market towards mobile hardware keyboard, because BB engaged anyone getting close to their level of sophistication in the technology, rendering competitors’ implementations inconsistent and lackluster as the result.
I still don’t fully understand serial suicides in phone market 2007-2012, it was strange times. Lots of companies were politely asked to finish their free lunch session and most decided to burn their retirement instead of accepting it.
I think, in a market like this, if a new type of product appears, and starts gaining massive traction?
The CEO, the board, the top execs, marketing, etc, need to force use that product exclusively. So they know. So they get it.
Because it seemed like many floundered by not understanding the differences, what was important.
RIM could have done so much, but they didn't even get it, or seem to understand why people were bailing.
Where was RIM's board? CEO replacement took too long too.
Ah well.
The CEO, the board, the top execs, marketing, etc, need to force use that product exclusively. So they know. So they get it.
Because it seemed like many floundered by not understanding the differences, what was important.
RIM could have done so much, but they didn't even get it, or seem to understand why people were bailing.
Where was RIM's board? CEO replacement took too long too.
Ah well.
The phone had a lot of complaints about getting hot while in use. The camera was also quite poor, which in 2015 was a dealbreaker.
I did run into someone using it though, and when I asked him how he liked it, he said it was great. The keyboard was more important to him than anything else.
I did run into someone using it though, and when I asked him how he liked it, he said it was great. The keyboard was more important to him than anything else.
BlackBerry's keyboard software is excellent too. I use BlackBerry Keyboard[1] on my compact Xperia. The auto-suggests appear on the keys themselves. This saves valuable real-estate compared to having an extra row of words above the keyboard.
Sadly BlackBerry haven't released new hardware for ~3 years and their software is barely on life support. A shame since they have a knack for functional design.
[1]https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.blackberry...
Sadly BlackBerry haven't released new hardware for ~3 years and their software is barely on life support. A shame since they have a knack for functional design.
[1]https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.blackberry...
I was going to try that keyboard out but it isn't compatible with my phone (Android 10). Not sure why.
BlackBerry only lets BlackBerry hardware install it from the playstore. BlackBerry Manager[1] was an MIT licensed program that let you patch and install on unauthorized devices.
Sadly, it looks like repository was deleted in the last few months(DMCA?). Silly considering they haven't released any Android 10 devices.
Maybe there's still BlackBerry Manager apks around. I'd recommend trying it out, it's still an excellent typing experience. Haven't found anything to replace it yet.
[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20201121204253/https://github.co...
Maybe there's still BlackBerry Manager apks around. I'd recommend trying it out, it's still an excellent typing experience. Haven't found anything to replace it yet.
[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20201121204253/https://github.co...
What is your baseline for how good swipe typing is?
Pre-smartphone plenty of people touch typed text messages. No need to be staring at the screen. Stealth messages could be sent without taking the phone out of your pocket.
Physical keyboards probably appear to a significant section of people who would like to use their phone as a productivity device. Surely if swipe typing is so good it would be an option in Windows 10?
I agree on the price but I am still considering purchasing this phone.
Pre-smartphone plenty of people touch typed text messages. No need to be staring at the screen. Stealth messages could be sent without taking the phone out of your pocket.
Physical keyboards probably appear to a significant section of people who would like to use their phone as a productivity device. Surely if swipe typing is so good it would be an option in Windows 10?
I agree on the price but I am still considering purchasing this phone.
> Stealth messages could be sent without taking the phone out of your pocket
Remember when phones were predictable enough that you could remember where everything was and navigate anywhere through memory alone?
Nowadays you need to be very skillful to even open the app you meant to, let alone press the right keys on a keyboard.
Heck, sometimes between all of notifications, video overlays, recommendations, ads, frequent redesigns, non-deterministic search results and whatnot, you might congratulate yourself for being able to do the thing you meant to at all!
(And no, I don't have any physical, vision or mental impairment, and I have grown up with technology)
Remember when phones were predictable enough that you could remember where everything was and navigate anywhere through memory alone?
Nowadays you need to be very skillful to even open the app you meant to, let alone press the right keys on a keyboard.
Heck, sometimes between all of notifications, video overlays, recommendations, ads, frequent redesigns, non-deterministic search results and whatnot, you might congratulate yourself for being able to do the thing you meant to at all!
(And no, I don't have any physical, vision or mental impairment, and I have grown up with technology)
Personally, I can get 75-80 WPM with two-handed non-swipe typing on my iPhone, with autocorrect on, albeit making a few uncorrected errors. Now, I have never spent any significant amount of time with physical phone keyboards, so I can’t personally compare the experience. But from some Googling, 75 WPM seems to be at the high end of what people could achieve on old BlackBerries. So or oductivity-wise, it doesn’t seem like I’m missing out on much. YMMV.
That said, autocorrect only works for English text. If I’m trying to, say, type a shell command into an SSH session, I do have to slow down quite a bit.
That said, autocorrect only works for English text. If I’m trying to, say, type a shell command into an SSH session, I do have to slow down quite a bit.
I almost never swipe type unless I am in bed with one hand. Otherwise, tap typing is what I prefer. I have sort of a weird grip but can type at about 80-90wpm on my phone with enough accuracy that autocorrect works the majority of the time. I can also type reasonably well under my desk without looking, but that would be much easier with physical buttons.
Does everyone else swipe type now?
Does everyone else swipe type now?
> I have sort of a weird grip but can type at about 80-90wpm on my phone with
enough accuracy that autocorrect works the majority of the time.
I'm quite curious about your `weird grip'; 80-90 wpm on a touchscreen sounds absurdly fast.
I'm quite curious about your `weird grip'; 80-90 wpm on a touchscreen sounds absurdly fast.
I can get around 75-80 WPM tap-typing on my iPhone. No weird grip.
Though, to measure that I had to make my own typing test, because after trying multiple websites and native apps, I couldn’t find any tests that didn’t disable autocorrect. Accuracy without autocorrect may be interesting to measure, but in real-world typing, I intentionally sacrifice accuracy for speed and let autocorrect pick up the slack. A test of practical typing speed should take that into account.
If anyone else wants to try, here is my very barebones test:
https://a.qoid.us/typetest.html
Though, to measure that I had to make my own typing test, because after trying multiple websites and native apps, I couldn’t find any tests that didn’t disable autocorrect. Accuracy without autocorrect may be interesting to measure, but in real-world typing, I intentionally sacrifice accuracy for speed and let autocorrect pick up the slack. A test of practical typing speed should take that into account.
If anyone else wants to try, here is my very barebones test:
https://a.qoid.us/typetest.html
Ah excellent, I agree most type sites are terrible for mobile. This is much appreciated
So I type with my left pointer finger and right thumb.
My left hand has the middle finger on the side edge, thumb on the bottom edge. The rest of the fingers hang.
My right hand supports the back of the phone with 3 fingers, pointer on the side edge and the thumb types.
Hope they helps describe it. My family and friends make fun of how fast and loud I type and my weird grip, but I do take pride in my speed :)
My left hand has the middle finger on the side edge, thumb on the bottom edge. The rest of the fingers hang.
My right hand supports the back of the phone with 3 fingers, pointer on the side edge and the thumb types.
Hope they helps describe it. My family and friends make fun of how fast and loud I type and my weird grip, but I do take pride in my speed :)
First of all, there are other languages than English.
Some of them are programming languages.
Also a touchscreen can not be operated with sweaty fingers or slightly unusual conditions.
No they really can not be reliably used, recent years’ improvements notwithstanding.
If I ever need to use my phone in an emergency outside in the cold with wet, sweaty perhaps bloody hands, I’d appreciate a 100% physical keyboard controllable one.
Touchscreens are handy though as an auxiliary control in the ideal circumstances.
Some of them are programming languages.
Also a touchscreen can not be operated with sweaty fingers or slightly unusual conditions.
No they really can not be reliably used, recent years’ improvements notwithstanding.
If I ever need to use my phone in an emergency outside in the cold with wet, sweaty perhaps bloody hands, I’d appreciate a 100% physical keyboard controllable one.
Touchscreens are handy though as an auxiliary control in the ideal circumstances.
>Some of them are programming languages.
Are you doing programming on your smartphone?
I agree with the rest - sweaty fingers or wet fingers in general, or god forbid you want to wear gloves where it's cold.
But programming on a smartphone?
Are you doing programming on your smartphone?
I agree with the rest - sweaty fingers or wet fingers in general, or god forbid you want to wear gloves where it's cold.
But programming on a smartphone?
When I had a Nokia N900, I programmed on the device all the time. Nothing especially big, of course, but the traditional-Linux environment and physical keyboard on that phone allowed you to quickly knock out a small shell or Python script if you had some task you wanted to automate.
I don't know about programming but I have definitely used a remote shell session from my phone while on the subway.
Can't now because my device doesn't have sufficient access, but I used to have VPN on it.
Can't now because my device doesn't have sufficient access, but I used to have VPN on it.
> I have definitely used a remote shell session from my phone while on the subway.
Out of necessity or just for fun/curiosity?
Out of necessity or just for fun/curiosity?
I have SSHed into a remote server from my phone out of necessity many, many times. When you get that e-mail on debian-security-announce that some package on one of your servers has just received a security update to fix some serious vulnerability, then ideally you install that update and reload the service right away, instead of putting it off for later.
Is this for a personal server or for a server that is being used by a paying client? If the latter, doesn't it make sense to have an oncall rotation with someone else on your team?
Personal servers.
It was for work but mostly to see if I could. I got a code review approval email while commuting and logged in to submit.
>Are you doing programming on your smartphone?
No, mostly because it lacks a physical keyboard.
No, mostly because it lacks a physical keyboard.
> If I ever need to use my phone in an emergency outside in the cold with wet, sweaty perhaps bloody hands
Man, we have very different lifestyles. Are you a serial killer? :)
> Some of them are programming languages
You’re the first person I’ve known who programs on phone hardware rather than using a larger computer with emulators. It must be quite painful for you!
Man, we have very different lifestyles. Are you a serial killer? :)
> Some of them are programming languages
You’re the first person I’ve known who programs on phone hardware rather than using a larger computer with emulators. It must be quite painful for you!
Most people carry around several liters of blood inside them. It's surprisingly easy to get some out, even by accident.
While it is undeniably more comfortable to program with a nice keyboard and big monitor, emergencies can demand that you work with what you have. Typing
cat /tmp/accumulatedfiles | while read line ; do sed -i '/inner\;/outer\;/' < $line ; done
can be rather frustrating without a real keyboard.
While it is undeniably more comfortable to program with a nice keyboard and big monitor, emergencies can demand that you work with what you have. Typing
cat /tmp/accumulatedfiles | while read line ; do sed -i '/inner\;/outer\;/' < $line ; done
can be rather frustrating without a real keyboard.
Yup, I've had to troubleshoot servers over SSH on Android more times than I care to count and it's time consuming. Due to this I often bring my backpack with laptop just in case. With a daily driver like this with a physical keyboard I wouldn't have to bother.
The size of this (as well as the Astro Slide[0]) deters me from buying though. Well COVID as well since I'm not on the move as much as I used to. But size-wise it's just too big, a phone this size doesn't comfortably fit in my pocket. Wish someone made something N900-sized (but lighter and thinner). The large size is great when used in computer mode, but most of the time you're using it in phone mode so I'd prefer to have it smaller.
[0] https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transforme...
The size of this (as well as the Astro Slide[0]) deters me from buying though. Well COVID as well since I'm not on the move as much as I used to. But size-wise it's just too big, a phone this size doesn't comfortably fit in my pocket. Wish someone made something N900-sized (but lighter and thinner). The large size is great when used in computer mode, but most of the time you're using it in phone mode so I'd prefer to have it smaller.
[0] https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transforme...
[deleted]
> Most people carry around several liters of blood inside them.
Emphasis on “most”.
Emphasis on “most”.
I really worry about the exceptions to that.
Only on HN would I be incentivized to Google "amount of blood in a baby". It turns out babies have about 75mL of blood per kg, so an 8 pound baby would have about 270 mL of blood. Infants/toddlers up to ~29lbs (between 2~4 years old) will have less than a liter of blood.
> Man, we have very different lifestyles. Are you a serial killer? :)
It wasn't an emergency, but I've certainly wanted to use my phone recently while outside shoveling after a blizzard, with hands that are simultaneously cold, wet and sweaty. Heck, I can hardly use my phone when I'm done at the gym. And one doesn't have to be a serial killer to get blood on their hands in say, a fall while hiking, a crash while biking, or when dialing 911 while rendering aid to someone else whose blood is now on your hands.
There are 2 types of people in this world: people who would like a phone to work at such times, and people who feel like they have to do things like panic-buy toilet paper during a pandemic.
It wasn't an emergency, but I've certainly wanted to use my phone recently while outside shoveling after a blizzard, with hands that are simultaneously cold, wet and sweaty. Heck, I can hardly use my phone when I'm done at the gym. And one doesn't have to be a serial killer to get blood on their hands in say, a fall while hiking, a crash while biking, or when dialing 911 while rendering aid to someone else whose blood is now on your hands.
There are 2 types of people in this world: people who would like a phone to work at such times, and people who feel like they have to do things like panic-buy toilet paper during a pandemic.
This is the difference between country and city life. Help, or trip to a hospital is quite often longer than you'd survive if you were bleeding out.
Those who have never lived a more rugged life do not understand.
Those who have never lived a more rugged life do not understand.
Heck - I had to call 911 for an active domestic violence situation in the middle of New York, with a guy high on drugs yelling imminent death threats. The response time was well over an hour and all that was left to do was tell the police that we had gotten rid of the guy ourselves.
Of course, this is now far removed from the topic of how easily your fingers can dial 911 - but yes. In general I don't understand how people, even in cities, can think emergencies just don't happen in this day and age and if they do you'll always have help. It's like we haven't lived in the same world for the last year.
Of course, this is now far removed from the topic of how easily your fingers can dial 911 - but yes. In general I don't understand how people, even in cities, can think emergencies just don't happen in this day and age and if they do you'll always have help. It's like we haven't lived in the same world for the last year.
Preparing for those situations isn't stupid, similarly using seatbelts and creating backups is usually a good idea. Sure, you can go without and you'll be fine...until you're not. And then you'll be glad for every little measure you took beforehand.
You don't need to write code on your phone? Me neither. But if some server suddenly starts acting weird while I'm on a roadtrip and everything I have is a smartphone, I sure as hell would not enjoy the typical SSH session using swype and autocorrect.
You don't need to write code on your phone? Me neither. But if some server suddenly starts acting weird while I'm on a roadtrip and everything I have is a smartphone, I sure as hell would not enjoy the typical SSH session using swype and autocorrect.
> But if some server suddenly starts acting weird while I'm on a roadtrip.
This sort of example always strikes me as odd because it seems far better to have a an oncall rotation for this sort of thing.
Granted that nobody has this for their personal servers, but that by definition is not an emergency.
However, if it's for a service you are providing to a paying client, I'd hope they aren't relying on a server being reset by a single individual who might be on a road trip.
This sort of example always strikes me as odd because it seems far better to have a an oncall rotation for this sort of thing.
Granted that nobody has this for their personal servers, but that by definition is not an emergency.
However, if it's for a service you are providing to a paying client, I'd hope they aren't relying on a server being reset by a single individual who might be on a road trip.
I guess someone has never been in a car crash. Or had to fix a problem on the train home after leaving work. Must be nice.
Emergency mode on an iPhone is activated with physical buttons. If I’m on the train leaving work, I have my laptop in my bag...
This device is really interesting, but I agree that the product market fit is slim.
This device is really interesting, but I agree that the product market fit is slim.
I can tell you from several unfortunate emergency experiences that you don’t just call 911. In fact if you are the one in the accident, it’s often the case that someone else calls 911 before you find your phone. What you do is call or text your family/coworkers/significant other/etc. I mean I won’t buy a phone just for this use case, but someone who routinely works in harsh environments might.
As far as programming on the phone, I used to leave my computer at work and have a computer at home. On the commute I would only have my phone. If I am at the grocery store and the client calls and says their server is acting funny, I might not want to wait to SSH to it from home or run to the office.
I think this is all a moot point in that you are right: at this point most people don’t have the need for a physical keyboard. But at the same time, I think some small subset of people will want a physical keyboard.
As far as programming on the phone, I used to leave my computer at work and have a computer at home. On the commute I would only have my phone. If I am at the grocery store and the client calls and says their server is acting funny, I might not want to wait to SSH to it from home or run to the office.
I think this is all a moot point in that you are right: at this point most people don’t have the need for a physical keyboard. But at the same time, I think some small subset of people will want a physical keyboard.
There are a cohort of people who abhor touchscreens for typing but there currently exists nothing that caters to them.
Everyone making phones caters to the 80% case, there are economic reasons for this (supply chain runoffs, manufacturing equipment and software) so making something for the remaining 20% cases is increasingly expensive.
To answer your question directly, me (a 31 year old white man technologist) and my friend (a 28 year old white man technologist)
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Everyone making phones caters to the 80% case, there are economic reasons for this (supply chain runoffs, manufacturing equipment and software) so making something for the remaining 20% cases is increasingly expensive.
To answer your question directly, me (a 31 year old white man technologist) and my friend (a 28 year old white man technologist)
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This targets me exactly! Well, sort of. The original Moto Droid was my first Android device, and I loved the slide out physical keyboard (paired with SwiftKey prediction and autocorrect!). It was the best of both worlds. I miss that typing experience.
This phone looks perfect! Up until I saw the processor. A snapdragon 662 sounds like it would be a step back in time.
So I guess I'm on the jaded list. My dream phone would have a landscape physical keyboard and a Samsung/Wacom pressure sensitive stylus. All with a flagship quality CPU/GPU. I could care less about multiple camera lenses. Anyways, never gonna happen.
This phone looks perfect! Up until I saw the processor. A snapdragon 662 sounds like it would be a step back in time.
So I guess I'm on the jaded list. My dream phone would have a landscape physical keyboard and a Samsung/Wacom pressure sensitive stylus. All with a flagship quality CPU/GPU. I could care less about multiple camera lenses. Anyways, never gonna happen.
Yeah, no idea how that happened. 662 is an early 2020 11nm midrange SoC. For comparison the 1.5 year older Apple A12 is twice as fast. Considering the price point I'd rather pay an extra 200 dollars and buy a 7" One Mix laptop.
I miss my Droid keyboard. It was so much more convenient than the current screen keyboards, even with swipe. Swipe + auto-correct gets every 3rd word wrong for me.
>What segment does the physical keyboard appeal to?
Sysadmins, hackers, etc. Ever tried ”swipe typing coupled with autocorrect” in an SSH session?
Sysadmins, hackers, etc. Ever tried ”swipe typing coupled with autocorrect” in an SSH session?
I just wonder how practical it really is to do any kind of meaningful sysadmin work on a phone. Yeah you can ssh and type long commands better, but if you're in an enterprise setting you have to vpn in, then connect to a jump server so you have ssh aliases and pki certs. Or have them ready on your phone, but how do you keep it up to date? What about auxiliary programs that are needed to make better decisions once ssh is established (monitoring)?..
I'm saying maybe it's legit, maybe I'm just oldfashioned.
I'm saying maybe it's legit, maybe I'm just oldfashioned.
Definitely not "true enterprise", but I have fixed server issues with my phone on a half-hour train ride. Back then I just used SSH password auth to connect to a server, so no security measures stopped me. Nowadays I'd probably wake up my home desktop and SSH into that and go from there.
Yeah, but then I hope their OS is super optimized and runs like a demon on the Snapdragon 662. Most likely, if it's Android, at some point it will lag even while typing using that physical keyboard.
It's running Lineage OS which is pretty close to stock Android sans a lot of the invasive Google telemetry so it will probably run smoother than you would expect given the specs.
Think thin-client. I do on-call duty often, having entire smartphone screen available for terminal/remote desktop plus hw keyboard is priceless. No need to carry a laptop everywhere I go, esp. outdoor and during trips.
My current emergency set: stock Android phone (with OTG), Termux, VPN client, RDP client, cheap lap phone stand with USB keyboard which I keep in my car. I also keep my own jumpbox servers with software required by employer/customer, which is not easily installable on phone without quirks.
My todo: check some Dex dongle with HDMI to use hotel TV as external screen; figure out if I can cast phone screen onto car's screen with Mirrorlink.
My current emergency set: stock Android phone (with OTG), Termux, VPN client, RDP client, cheap lap phone stand with USB keyboard which I keep in my car. I also keep my own jumpbox servers with software required by employer/customer, which is not easily installable on phone without quirks.
My todo: check some Dex dongle with HDMI to use hotel TV as external screen; figure out if I can cast phone screen onto car's screen with Mirrorlink.
> What segment does the physical keyboard appeal to?
I definitely welcome this. Swipe typing has been completely unusable for me, personally (I must be doing it wrong, Galaxy S10) and the display registers so many typos when I type that I often break out the whole laptop to type a simple whatsapp message.
The price is steep; if the phone is good though, it definitely interests me.
I definitely welcome this. Swipe typing has been completely unusable for me, personally (I must be doing it wrong, Galaxy S10) and the display registers so many typos when I type that I often break out the whole laptop to type a simple whatsapp message.
The price is steep; if the phone is good though, it definitely interests me.
Whoa... maybe it’s the jenky touchwiz software Samsung bundles on galaxies (if that’s still the case?). Try installing the default google keyboard and setting it as default. Back when I used android, the Google keyboard swipe capability was solid, this was on an LG G6 with some debloated vanilla android rom.
Although I have to say, moving back to iOS has been pretty amazing. Swiping on the normal iOS keyboard allowed me to type this entire message from bed with one hand... barely any autocorrect kicked in...
Although I have to say, moving back to iOS has been pretty amazing. Swiping on the normal iOS keyboard allowed me to type this entire message from bed with one hand... barely any autocorrect kicked in...
Different software keyboards definitely have different swiping requirements. I've found that Samsung swiping keyboards need sharper angles at direction changes to help with recognition. Other swiping keyboards are more okay with smooth continuous curves.
> For english language, swipe typing coupled with autocorrect works astonishingly well.
That's great. Meanwhile text input on phones is astonishingly frustrating in many other languages; for one because we also use english words and expressions in our native language, and this alone will already completely derail >90% of text correction and completion systems. Now add another "smart prediction" layer on top with swipe input and the result switches between "decent" and "totally unusable" from one sentence to the next.
And without swype I find touchscreen-based text input just as frustrating. It's a constant cycle of fixing typos using the worst UI possible. We need a "UI dark pattern from hell" award just so we can give one to the genius who came up with Android's pixel-perfect cursor placement mechanism to select text(which Google, for whatever reason, just refuses to fix in any way).
That's great. Meanwhile text input on phones is astonishingly frustrating in many other languages; for one because we also use english words and expressions in our native language, and this alone will already completely derail >90% of text correction and completion systems. Now add another "smart prediction" layer on top with swipe input and the result switches between "decent" and "totally unusable" from one sentence to the next.
And without swype I find touchscreen-based text input just as frustrating. It's a constant cycle of fixing typos using the worst UI possible. We need a "UI dark pattern from hell" award just so we can give one to the genius who came up with Android's pixel-perfect cursor placement mechanism to select text(which Google, for whatever reason, just refuses to fix in any way).
I'm 25 - I loved qwerty physical keyboards on those "texting phones" from the late 2000s. The Sidekick, the enV, the Octane, etc. To me, as a kid, it looked like a small laptop, and I wanted to run real applications on it and use the web. I was very fast on that little keyboard, too. When I got my first smartphone, it took me awhile to get used to it. I can't type without the tactile feedback, and I don't like using the terminal on a touch keyboard. Adding that I'm a nerd for pocket computers in general, I guess I'm the target audience.
I bought a Pro1, their first-gen model. Termux had packages for both vim, kubectl, and the Teleport client binary (tsh). Unfortunately, it didn't work because Termux refused (refuses?) to run within the Android work profile, but if it did, it would have permitted running kubectl commands - checking status, restarting deployments, scaling deployments, etc., all from the phone in your pocket.
Running kubectl edit and then using vim from a physical keyboard is very doable. Trying to do it from a touch keyboard is a nightmare.
Running kubectl edit and then using vim from a physical keyboard is very doable. Trying to do it from a touch keyboard is a nightmare.
If you can't type on an actual keyboard, touchscreen typing is barely a downgrade from hunting and pecking.
If you can type quickly, touchscreen typing is really fucking awful.
If you can type quickly, touchscreen typing is really fucking awful.
They probably aren't the designed target market but I wonder if a physical keyboard would be easier to use for the vision impaired. Especially with the ridges on the home keys, they could rely less on the audio feedback experience of glass screen keyboards
I have been waiting for a phone like this since I had a Samsung Captivate Glide [0] in 2011. The fact that it can come with Linux preinstalled is a huge bonus for me.
I can't really say why I like typing on a physical keyboard, but not losing half of your screen to a virtual keyboard and also having access to modifier keys like shift, ctrl and alt are the top two reasons I prefer having the physical keyboard. Also it slides out so you only need to use it when it will help.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Captivate_Glide
I can't really say why I like typing on a physical keyboard, but not losing half of your screen to a virtual keyboard and also having access to modifier keys like shift, ctrl and alt are the top two reasons I prefer having the physical keyboard. Also it slides out so you only need to use it when it will help.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Captivate_Glide
I used swype up to a few years ago, and now I use speech to text all the time. It isn't perfect, and for some reason loves to confuse pronouns (I becomes HE, why Google?). But it's ease of use and speed is unmatched.
Typing on a physical keyboard feels like going back a couple steps. I would like actual buttons on the phone though - for gaming. And maybe a little touchpad? That's what I'd put on a pull out pad. Now the problem becomes getting support for those things...
Typing on a physical keyboard feels like going back a couple steps. I would like actual buttons on the phone though - for gaming. And maybe a little touchpad? That's what I'd put on a pull out pad. Now the problem becomes getting support for those things...
If typing on a screen was really as enjoyable and productive as a keyboard, we wouldn't see the enormous collapse in long-form text blogging over the last decade in favor of just uploading images with a much smaller amount of text.
Physical keyboards appeal to, besides those who just like to write a lot of text, also people who often need to SSH into a server and enter extended characters, or who run Emacs on their phone and want to easily use the power of packages like org-mode.
Physical keyboards appeal to, besides those who just like to write a lot of text, also people who often need to SSH into a server and enter extended characters, or who run Emacs on their phone and want to easily use the power of packages like org-mode.
It targets me since my hands are way too fat and I need to type Norwegian. None of the keyboards from apple (who doesn't even have swipe in Norwegian), google or microsoft supports compound words.
Combine that with my fat fingers that generally press 3-4 keys on my iphone at the same time I have to spend a lot of time erasing what I just wrote. A physical slide out keyboard would be great.
Combine that with my fat fingers that generally press 3-4 keys on my iphone at the same time I have to spend a lot of time erasing what I just wrote. A physical slide out keyboard would be great.
> For english language, swipe typing coupled with autocorrect works astonishingly well.
Yes! I love it. But when I'm typing in a morphologically complex language that has poor autocorrect coverage (dictionary too small), swipe typing is unpleasant. I hate swipe-less touch typing. Keyboard is right up my alley (though I'd love to see improvements in non-English autocorrect more).
Yes! I love it. But when I'm typing in a morphologically complex language that has poor autocorrect coverage (dictionary too small), swipe typing is unpleasant. I hate swipe-less touch typing. Keyboard is right up my alley (though I'd love to see improvements in non-English autocorrect more).
Most of what I wrote makes no sense. The previous sentence has only one to be to get the just.
I swiped the above and you can see the results.
I swiped the above and you can see the results.
I have yet to see an even half working autocorrect on phone (even in English). I'm using Samsung S10P and when typing autocorrect can't correct even a simple 1 character typos (e.g. "cha4acter" or "5ypo"). Also trying to put a cursor in the desired place happens usually only after several tries.
For the cursor part, most keyboard allow precise cursor movements by swiping the space bar.
Wow,i never realized you could do that, such a game changer! Thanks for the tip.
[deleted]
Probably the people that bought the previous Android iteration of this, the FxTec Pro 1 from 2019.
I’ve actually heard people with certain handicaps find they can type better with the physical keyboard. I’m not sure what those handicaps are - I read it a long time ago. I think one thing may have been poor eyesight and being able to feel the keys helped aid them.
> born and raised touching the screen
What does this have to do with the market? People don't want physical keyboards because they are "used to" them. They want because the experience of typing is different.
What does this have to do with the market? People don't want physical keyboards because they are "used to" them. They want because the experience of typing is different.
I would have bought this style of phone 8 or 9 years ago. I had the original G1 (actually the ADP1) and Samsung Sidekick 4G, and loved the keyboards on those phones. With some practice, I could get close to 30 wpm on the keyboards.
Since those phones were current though, I've needed to switch to "normal" smartphones without physical keyboards. At first I really disliked them, but with practice, and especially with better swipe-capable keyboards, I got used to it.
Now, I don't know that I'd worry about going back. I'd rather have a phone with long-term software support.
Since those phones were current though, I've needed to switch to "normal" smartphones without physical keyboards. At first I really disliked them, but with practice, and especially with better swipe-capable keyboards, I got used to it.
Now, I don't know that I'd worry about going back. I'd rather have a phone with long-term software support.
IMO autocorrect only works well if all of the following are true:
1. You only speak one language, and never find yourself in a situation where you encounter transliterated foreign words or names.
2. You never use any obscure or technical words. No jargon or slang.
3. You also never find yourself in a situation where you have to come up with new terms and abbreviations.
4. You never use the keyboard for any notation other than prose. No code.
5. You agree 100% with the orthographic choices of whoever made your autocorrect.
Personal experience tells me that as a result anyone who has autocorrect on tends to be a boring conversation partner.
1. You only speak one language, and never find yourself in a situation where you encounter transliterated foreign words or names.
2. You never use any obscure or technical words. No jargon or slang.
3. You also never find yourself in a situation where you have to come up with new terms and abbreviations.
4. You never use the keyboard for any notation other than prose. No code.
5. You agree 100% with the orthographic choices of whoever made your autocorrect.
Personal experience tells me that as a result anyone who has autocorrect on tends to be a boring conversation partner.
I often have a shell open on my phone, but far less often than I would if there were good options for typing. I'm very excited by the prospect.
I honestly found keyboards like this cumbersome because I can only use two fingers. I thought that was there reason we got away from them in the first place? Then haptic feedback made it so touching the screen feels better, but the original iPhone showed you didn't need a keyboard. I am so confused on who would buy this device.
>I thought that was there reason we got away from them in the first place?
Yes, and that reason was "Apple did it and everyone else imitated them." There were other reasons too, having a keyboard on the phone itself like a Blackberry took up valuable screen real estate, and slide-outs made the phone ticker (when all manufacturers were crazy about making them thinner and thinner) and adds a mechanical point of failure. But other than that, it was largely trend-chasing.
Yes, and that reason was "Apple did it and everyone else imitated them." There were other reasons too, having a keyboard on the phone itself like a Blackberry took up valuable screen real estate, and slide-outs made the phone ticker (when all manufacturers were crazy about making them thinner and thinner) and adds a mechanical point of failure. But other than that, it was largely trend-chasing.
> Then haptic feedback made it so touching the screen feels better
ACTUAL MECHANICAL HAPTICS
vs
vibrating-slab-of-glass
vs
non-vibrating-slab-of-glass
cough yeah, have fun with your glass bricks
ACTUAL MECHANICAL HAPTICS
vs
vibrating-slab-of-glass
vs
non-vibrating-slab-of-glass
cough yeah, have fun with your glass bricks
Once 'haptic' found its way into phone marketing, 'a slab of glass that vibrates when you touch it' quickly supplanted any more complete definition of the word in this context.
> So who's the target for this 900 usd device?
The cynic in me says: No one. Or as close to no one as possible: too few people. And too fickle people (enthusiasts are notorious for being fickle and changing their minds about tech every 5 minutes). We just won't notice anything as this product dies a silent death, a few months from now.
The cynic in me says: No one. Or as close to no one as possible: too few people. And too fickle people (enthusiasts are notorious for being fickle and changing their minds about tech every 5 minutes). We just won't notice anything as this product dies a silent death, a few months from now.
swipe typing is great until you fudge it just a little bit. Then it gets hilarious horrible really fast.
Everyone who remembers how much better phones with slide-out keyboards were.
Commenters here seem to be focusing on the available OSes, but most flagship phones from a few years ago without a locked bootloader will run Lineage or Uubuntu Touch. FXtec's offering here is just that the bootloader won't be uncooperative.
The real killer feature is the keyboard. Those questioning the utility of a slide-out keyboard on a phone have obviously never used one. The speed and precision possible is miles ahead of an on-screen keyboard, plus there's all the extra screen real estate. While you can't touch type in the classic 4-fingers-on-home-row way, you certainly can learn to 'touch type' with your thumbs. Those who want proper touch typing can sit down in front of a Gemini, a slide-out keyboard excels at blasting out messages while standing on the metro.
There are plenty of us still holding onto our Motorola Photons and Droids (now so old the hardware is beginning to fail), blackberries (permanently locked bootloader) and Geminis (not a real phone, clamshell keyboard). For us, this is as close to the dream phone we've been waiting for as we'll likely ever see.
> swipe typing coupled with autocorrect works astonishingly well Last I checked, AnySoftKeyboard had the only FOSS implementation of swipe typing, and it wasn't very good. All the providers of decent swiping keyboards have a profit incentive to mine your data, and a keyboard that leaks information makes any other protections redundant.
Commenters here seem to be focusing on the available OSes, but most flagship phones from a few years ago without a locked bootloader will run Lineage or Uubuntu Touch. FXtec's offering here is just that the bootloader won't be uncooperative.
The real killer feature is the keyboard. Those questioning the utility of a slide-out keyboard on a phone have obviously never used one. The speed and precision possible is miles ahead of an on-screen keyboard, plus there's all the extra screen real estate. While you can't touch type in the classic 4-fingers-on-home-row way, you certainly can learn to 'touch type' with your thumbs. Those who want proper touch typing can sit down in front of a Gemini, a slide-out keyboard excels at blasting out messages while standing on the metro.
There are plenty of us still holding onto our Motorola Photons and Droids (now so old the hardware is beginning to fail), blackberries (permanently locked bootloader) and Geminis (not a real phone, clamshell keyboard). For us, this is as close to the dream phone we've been waiting for as we'll likely ever see.
> swipe typing coupled with autocorrect works astonishingly well Last I checked, AnySoftKeyboard had the only FOSS implementation of swipe typing, and it wasn't very good. All the providers of decent swiping keyboards have a profit incentive to mine your data, and a keyboard that leaks information makes any other protections redundant.
This. I haven't seen a good phone with a 5-row keyboard since my first android phone, a G-1. Having that fifth row means that all the punctuation goes where you expect it to be, and you don't have to learn another key layout. I've been making do with swiping text since about 4 phones ago, but it makes typing on a phone painful and about 10x slower. So far I've had to correct about 3 words per sentence. I can't wait to be able to order this phone!
G1, G2, Droid, Droid 2, Droid 4, Photon Q, Dell Venue Pro (windows phone), Priv, Pro1.
The road for keyboard phones is long and winding.
The portrait sliders like Dell Venue Pro and BB Priv are the best IMHO. With glossy silver metal sides to protect the screen, mmmm.
The road for keyboard phones is long and winding.
The portrait sliders like Dell Venue Pro and BB Priv are the best IMHO. With glossy silver metal sides to protect the screen, mmmm.
I have long yearned for the sliding keyboards of yore; better touch typing, adds some articulation and yes, size, to phones that are too small and smooth for many hands, all while preserving screen real estate from onscreen keyboards AND visual obstruction from our moving fingers. To this last point, I have given up on physical keyboards returning to phones, but why can't we have a physical scroll wheel on the side? Handles so many use screentime use cases (infinite scroll...), unobstrusive, precise, piggybacks on accessibility UIs, etc. Early ipods were all scroll wheel, and there is great versatility in the clicking and smooth-vs-stepped modes of modern mouse scroll wheels. If we haven't gotten a decent keyboard in any device for years, at least give us a wheel!! Touch screens are like wearing cheap cellophane gloves, this is why nobody looks cool while using their smartphone, because there is no possibility of virtuosity in the dead, time lagged UI.
[deleted]
Imagine a world where some people speak more than one language on a daily basis.
Wild, I know.
Wild, I know.
The pre-order site https://store.fxtec.com/product/fxtec-pro%C2%B9-x-256-8gb/#t... says
"Be one of the first to pre-order your Pro1 today. Shipping globally is estimated to be September 2019." ? Is it in the pre-order state since then?
That page you linked to is for the Pro-1. The OP is about the newer Pro-1x.
Well, was the Pro-1 ever delivered!?
Yes. I have one. Mine was ordered in Feb 2019 for shipping in August 2019. Come February 2020 it finally came in.
Biggest favorite is that I love they keyboard. I run the LineageOS 17.1 simply because I've been too lazy to flash LineageOS 18 unofficial. tdm the primary developer did a great job making the keyboard act well, and other developers made it behave via an app in Stock Android.
Second biggest favorite is that it has the trifecta of features I require from any phone: unlockable bootloader, microsd card, headphone jack. I prefer a removable battery but alas those are as thin as hen's teeth.
My biggest beef with this phone is that it has spotty voice reception. I have to stand in a particular spot in my house to not have my UDP packets drop off. Data reception is fine and when I do calls over signal or duo (wifi) it works a treat.
My second biggest beef would be the lack of snap-on case options like the old Nokias. I'm trying to figure out if someone does a 3d printed case or what, but with this curved screen, I'm nervous that each day could be this phone's last with just one fall.
Biggest favorite is that I love they keyboard. I run the LineageOS 17.1 simply because I've been too lazy to flash LineageOS 18 unofficial. tdm the primary developer did a great job making the keyboard act well, and other developers made it behave via an app in Stock Android.
Second biggest favorite is that it has the trifecta of features I require from any phone: unlockable bootloader, microsd card, headphone jack. I prefer a removable battery but alas those are as thin as hen's teeth.
My biggest beef with this phone is that it has spotty voice reception. I have to stand in a particular spot in my house to not have my UDP packets drop off. Data reception is fine and when I do calls over signal or duo (wifi) it works a treat.
My second biggest beef would be the lack of snap-on case options like the old Nokias. I'm trying to figure out if someone does a 3d printed case or what, but with this curved screen, I'm nervous that each day could be this phone's last with just one fall.
Top comment as of right now says [1] they ordered one but was never delivered, and the seller never answered to emails.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26662123
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26662123
Well, the top comment says they waited for 6 months until they requested a chargeback. The grand parent says they got theirs after 7 months. Not a contradiction.
The have been numerous such alternative phone and tablet projects during the last 12 years or so. Crowding funding or with a bit more of a commercial touch. All have failed to to deliver on time I would claim. Many if not most have failed to deliver at all. I would not call the founders dishonest. But whoever starts such a project lacks realism. It's incredibly complicated to make a phone, let alone a good one.
(I don't say the world would be a better place without optimists and over-optimists.)
The have been numerous such alternative phone and tablet projects during the last 12 years or so. Crowding funding or with a bit more of a commercial touch. All have failed to to deliver on time I would claim. Many if not most have failed to deliver at all. I would not call the founders dishonest. But whoever starts such a project lacks realism. It's incredibly complicated to make a phone, let alone a good one.
(I don't say the world would be a better place without optimists and over-optimists.)
I've got a 100% fail rate with crowd sourced hardware. You won't see me throw money at hardware through indiegogo or kickstarter again.
Yes, there are several Youtube videos with reviews of the device.
FAQ says the following, unsure if it's a typo or perpetually in pre-order.
https://store.fxtec.com/product/fxtec-pro%C2%B9-x-256-8gb/#t...
"
The current estimated shipping date to pre-order customers is September, watch out for updates over email or on social media:
Twitter (@thefxtec), Instagram (@fxtec), Facebook (fxtec)"
Other commenter is right, the Pro 1X has the following:
"SHIPPING IN AUGUST 2021"
https://store.fxtec.com/product/fxtec-pro%C2%B9-x-256-8gb/#t...
"
The current estimated shipping date to pre-order customers is September, watch out for updates over email or on social media:
Twitter (@thefxtec), Instagram (@fxtec), Facebook (fxtec)"
Other commenter is right, the Pro 1X has the following:
"SHIPPING IN AUGUST 2021"
I bought into the Planet Gemini on the promise of a Linux-multiboot Android phone with a physical keyboard. The keyboard is too small (and poor) to be usable, the Linux distributions never progressed beyond alpha quality (not graphics acceleration even!) and the Android base was abandoned after two major revs. This one looks very much the same, down to the software base. I've learned my lesson about these kinds of devices, and I won't be going back to the well for another drink. I'd encourage you to consider well before getting too excited.
I really wish they would just make some keyboard-case-love-child for some of the more popular mainstream devices. I really want a physical keyboard, but I don't want to give up my daily driver for a $900 unknown variable.
They were supposed to. This company was launched on an ill-fated Kickstarter for a slide-out keyboard attachment called "Livermorium" for the Moto Z. It's the reason I owned a Moto Z.
I have no interest in buying a no-name brand phone, though.
I have no interest in buying a no-name brand phone, though.
Problem is, Motorola took its time certifying the keyboard and by the time they were done, hardware components where no longer available, so they had to redesign. Same thing happened again, but they successfully delivered a few prototypes. After which Motorola discontinued the attachment ports altogether.
So fuck Motorola, never again.
And from what I've seen in the Pro1 (no X), it works pretty well, does what it is supposed to. Price could be lower, but there is always something.
So fuck Motorola, never again.
And from what I've seen in the Pro1 (no X), it works pretty well, does what it is supposed to. Price could be lower, but there is always something.
Okay, the cert delay killing it sucks... but discontinued? There were 4 generations of Moto Z with the port. That's a long window.
I got the Moto Z keyboard attachment, and it was too clunky to use compared to e.g. my current Pro1 or whatever I had back then (BlackBerry Priv probably).
The PinePhone will be coming out with a keyboard add-on soon
Hopefully not as a slideout. My wife is handicapped and don't manage fiddly slideouts. She is happy with Blackberry Key2 style keyboards.
There's renderings on [1] and [2] and prototype photos on [3] and [4] that makes it look like more of a clamshell / laptop shape with the phone screen and keyboard folded against each other when it's closed. Kind of like a tablet with a keyboard case. Apparently the keyboard will also have a 22Wh/6000mAh batter in it.
[1]: https://www.pine64.org/2020/12/15/december-update-the-longes...
[2]: https://www.pine64.org/2021/01/15/january-update-happy-new-g...
[3]: https://www.pine64.org/2021/02/15/february-update-show-and-t...
[4]: https://www.pine64.org/2021/03/15/march-update/
Search for "keyboard" or just scroll about halfway down each of the pages to see the pictures.
[1]: https://www.pine64.org/2020/12/15/december-update-the-longes...
[2]: https://www.pine64.org/2021/01/15/january-update-happy-new-g...
[3]: https://www.pine64.org/2021/02/15/february-update-show-and-t...
[4]: https://www.pine64.org/2021/03/15/march-update/
Search for "keyboard" or just scroll about halfway down each of the pages to see the pictures.
Thanks. What's needed: no fiddly mechanics like folding or sliding out. The keyboard of the Blackberry Key2 is perfect.
That looks rather promising!
Samsung used to make these for their flagships, but stopped after the Galaxy S8 in 2017. I had the case for the GS7, it was pretty good if expensive at CAD 70.
After 2 years though it started missing keystrokes, and I needed to take it off and clip it back on to get it to work.
After 2 years though it started missing keystrokes, and I needed to take it off and clip it back on to get it to work.
I agree! I'd really love a case that added a keyboard, battery, MicroSD slot, and a headphones jack!
It's astonishing to me that folks are still releasing phones which have no IP rating, let alone devices that are not fully waterproof (IP67). I'm probably in a class of folks who are in and around water more than most, however the flagships have all adopted this.
This will always be a problem, because the problem is basically "It suprises me that not everyone has the fancy features advertised 3 years ago on a flagship device".
It's like people being suprised that the newest laptops don't all have high DPS displays and thin bezels, but they ignore that 1 - those aren't easy to engineer and 2 - they sacrifice things like repairability, reliability, and manufacturing cost to do so.
It's like people being suprised that the newest laptops don't all have high DPS displays and thin bezels, but they ignore that 1 - those aren't easy to engineer and 2 - they sacrifice things like repairability, reliability, and manufacturing cost to do so.
AFAIK it's very hard for a small company to make their device waterproof. And we certrainly need more competition in the smartphone duopoly.
"LINEAGEOS, UBUNTU TOUCH or ANDROID" is a euphemism for "we did not do the important, hard work of upstreaming drivers".
This phone might be perfectly nice, but it's a "Linux phone" in a marketing sense only; nobody has properly ported Linux to it, and you'll be stuck with an ancient kernel full of proprietary userspace blobs.
I'd love to hear otherwise, but I've seen this pattern repeat a number of times (the Gemini PDA and successors, various "secure" phones, essentially all the Ubuntu Touch devices https://phone.docs.ubuntu.com/en/devices/devices, etc.) and those who do put in the critical driver work are in-touch enough to know it's worth being explicit about upfront.
This phone might be perfectly nice, but it's a "Linux phone" in a marketing sense only; nobody has properly ported Linux to it, and you'll be stuck with an ancient kernel full of proprietary userspace blobs.
I'd love to hear otherwise, but I've seen this pattern repeat a number of times (the Gemini PDA and successors, various "secure" phones, essentially all the Ubuntu Touch devices https://phone.docs.ubuntu.com/en/devices/devices, etc.) and those who do put in the critical driver work are in-touch enough to know it's worth being explicit about upfront.
You can't really blame a tiny manufacturer for not having all the drivers upstreamed. They probably don't have access to the relevant datasheets even if they had the money/time/developers to pursue full upstreaming. Upstreaming drivers is the vendors responsibility.
even the rPi has a bunch of firmware that just is not open sourced, they used their own kernel for years because of that.
Last summer, Maksym and I (2 co-founders of NewsCatcher, full team) went to the beach. It was like 1 hour walk from the place we were (where all laptops were).
By the time we were at the beach, we began receiving the alarms that our ElasticSearch does not receive any new data.
Maksym had to debug from my iPhone XR (and he actually succeeded in 20 mins). That was this time I though it would be nice to have a phone like Pro1X.
By the time we were at the beach, we began receiving the alarms that our ElasticSearch does not receive any new data.
Maksym had to debug from my iPhone XR (and he actually succeeded in 20 mins). That was this time I though it would be nice to have a phone like Pro1X.
While it is badass that you guys fixed a prod issue on the beach using an iPhone, I don’t think this new device is the only / best solution. The situation could also be solved by keeping a laptop or an iPad with a keyboard case in your car / bag if you are the one constantly ‘on-call’... most people have predefined on-call hours and wouldn’t need to sacrifice their stable daily driver cell just for physical keys
I agree, however, I'd prefer just putting this phone into my pocket.
iPad with a keyboard is definitely better but it's also not compact. Plus, I don't really want to bring it to the beach (because no matter what I always end up cleaning all my stuff from the sand)
iPad with a keyboard is definitely better but it's also not compact. Plus, I don't really want to bring it to the beach (because no matter what I always end up cleaning all my stuff from the sand)
A small folding bluetooth keyboard can be awesome in this situation.
I bought into the original project and still looking forward to receiving it, even with design changes.
Currently have a 5+ old phone that stopped being updated after 2 years by one of those big players. Hopefully this will push to the Linux mainline and have longer security.
Only use these as a phone, messaging, and reading news / articles. Don't game or other things. Hate using touch keyboard so much that when I'm reading and wish to comment I waiting until I get home and have access to a real keyboard.
Even installed KDE Connect so I can use my laptop / desktop keyboard to type messages. Hate touch keyboards so much when you actually want / need to convey information.
Specs are not the best but that is not my focal point. An usable phone with long security updates that runs a mainline Linux kernel is. Hoping in the long run hackers will pick at it and find a way to de-blob to evolve it even more.
Currently have a 5+ old phone that stopped being updated after 2 years by one of those big players. Hopefully this will push to the Linux mainline and have longer security.
Only use these as a phone, messaging, and reading news / articles. Don't game or other things. Hate using touch keyboard so much that when I'm reading and wish to comment I waiting until I get home and have access to a real keyboard.
Even installed KDE Connect so I can use my laptop / desktop keyboard to type messages. Hate touch keyboards so much when you actually want / need to convey information.
Specs are not the best but that is not my focal point. An usable phone with long security updates that runs a mainline Linux kernel is. Hoping in the long run hackers will pick at it and find a way to de-blob to evolve it even more.
Nerd in me: This is badass, I want one.
Brooklyn in me: My entire office is going to absolutely clown me for life if they ever see me with this goofy thing.
It's a brave device, that's for sure.
Brooklyn in me: My entire office is going to absolutely clown me for life if they ever see me with this goofy thing.
It's a brave device, that's for sure.
Going to school, age 17, in 1995 gleefully making notes on a Psion Series 3a was brave!
Carrying around a no-name phone in 2021 that your friends take the piss out of, means you just need new friends.
Carrying around a no-name phone in 2021 that your friends take the piss out of, means you just need new friends.
once I stopped respecting coworkers personal decisions, it made more sense to just ignore them and get what makes sense to me.
they don't like my phone, too bad for them. I don't like theirs.
they don't like my phone, too bad for them. I don't like theirs.
Huh, everyone is always intrigued by my Pro1 (looks same as Pro1X but black).
I have another British 'phone with a better keyboard on order for delivery starting in June: The Astro Slide 5G from Planet Computers: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transforme...
I bought their Gemini offering which is a great PDA but not so good as a mobile phone. Their new offering promises to provide a solution for both.
I bought their Gemini offering which is a great PDA but not so good as a mobile phone. Their new offering promises to provide a solution for both.
I'm also looking forward to the Slide. Interesting to note that even with all the kerfuffle surrounding their processor "downgrade" during production, the Astro Slide should be a bit more powerful [1]
Hopefully it will land sooner too...
[1] https://nanoreview.net/en/soc-compare/qualcomm-snapdragon-66...
Hopefully it will land sooner too...
[1] https://nanoreview.net/en/soc-compare/qualcomm-snapdragon-66...
Yep, I'm in the Astro early bird group, too. Looking forward to trying it out; I haven't used the Gemini or Cosmo, so I ain't really sure what to expect, but it looks nice enough.
Pro^1 X? What kind of name is that? That's like calling a sports car the Sport^GT R
... or a programming language C♯
I wonder why such devices have such a "meh" processor. This thing has a worse one than my several year old OnePlus 5.
Don't know if it can do HDMI or DisplayPort output, but assuming that (and using a bluetooth keyboard and mouse) it might be a ultra-portable work machine for me, so I don't need to schlep my laptop around. But not with a meh processor, then it is only a phone with a keyboard.
Don't know if it can do HDMI or DisplayPort output, but assuming that (and using a bluetooth keyboard and mouse) it might be a ultra-portable work machine for me, so I don't need to schlep my laptop around. But not with a meh processor, then it is only a phone with a keyboard.
But a non-meh processor means less battery time. I'd prefer meh processor to meh battery life. Meh.
That's not necessarily true, if it remains clocked down most of the time and is using the low power 'little' cores the difference isn't going to be that significant.
Can someone expand on this? My anecdotal experience contradicts this and I don't know much about CPUs.
ARM chips are heterogenous, so while they may claim to have 8 cores, not all of those cores are the same. Some are low-power cores meant to save battery power, and the high power cores are only activated when necessary.
Plus regardless of that, just because a CPU is old doesn't mean it's more power efficient than a new one. If anything, it's usually the other way around.
edit: more info at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_big.LITTLE
Plus regardless of that, just because a CPU is old doesn't mean it's more power efficient than a new one. If anything, it's usually the other way around.
edit: more info at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_big.LITTLE
For Linux device I would expect a system slider setting like "speed/battery".
Part of the problem is they have been selling this phone for years. After constantly having his shipping date pushed back my friend was able to get his money back for his preorder back in 2017
Most SoC manufacturers are very user/developer hostile or just sloppy. It takes a long time to clean up the mess to the degree that you can run a decent OS.
Don't expect support as good as a PinePhone. If this is anything like the Gemini PDA, it will only really work well with Android, and there will be many proprietary blobs that are reused via libhybris because of drivers being Android-only.
There are phones that only officially support Android and get mainlined and can run postmarketOS, but the shim that sorta-kinda works may dissuade people from doing this proper level of support. Again, look at the Gemini PDA and how its pmOS support is worse than some Samsung phones.
MediaTek and binary blobs are the source of the problem, but a company choosing these parts and then over-promising GNU/Linux support should not be ignored either. If you've ever shopped for a router to put OpenWrt on, or tried to run the Linux-libre kernel on a laptop, you'll know some companies are to be avoided. Broadcom in a router is never good, for example, and because ASUS chooses them often, ASUS is not really good either.
There are phones that only officially support Android and get mainlined and can run postmarketOS, but the shim that sorta-kinda works may dissuade people from doing this proper level of support. Again, look at the Gemini PDA and how its pmOS support is worse than some Samsung phones.
MediaTek and binary blobs are the source of the problem, but a company choosing these parts and then over-promising GNU/Linux support should not be ignored either. If you've ever shopped for a router to put OpenWrt on, or tried to run the Linux-libre kernel on a laptop, you'll know some companies are to be avoided. Broadcom in a router is never good, for example, and because ASUS chooses them often, ASUS is not really good either.
For another option, along similar lines, which has been shipping for a while now, there's https://store.planetcom.co.uk/collections/devices
Note that Planet Computers are currently developing the Cosmo Communicator, which kinda-sorta resembles the Pro1X layout, except with the (vastly superior) Psion-descended keyboard design of the earlier PC machines:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transforme...
As it's their third iteration I'm reasonably confident that this isn't vapourware and will ship some time after June (it was originally promised for March but COVID19 has hit everyone -- along with chip shortages).
For those who haven't used a Gemini PDA or a Cosmo Communicator, the Planet Computers smartphones have a keyboard descended from the late 1990s Psion Series 5 PDA, which actually has reasonable travel and tactile feedback rather than the chiclet style keys of the Nokia N900 or Blackberry or Pro1X. This means the Astro Slide is inevitably going to be a bit fatter than the Pro1X, but be easier to type on (and has a similar dual-mode use case, with a big touchscreen and a slide-out keyboard). The Astro Slide also promises 5G connectivity, 8Gb of RAM, and support for Linux OSs as well as Android.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transforme...
As it's their third iteration I'm reasonably confident that this isn't vapourware and will ship some time after June (it was originally promised for March but COVID19 has hit everyone -- along with chip shortages).
For those who haven't used a Gemini PDA or a Cosmo Communicator, the Planet Computers smartphones have a keyboard descended from the late 1990s Psion Series 5 PDA, which actually has reasonable travel and tactile feedback rather than the chiclet style keys of the Nokia N900 or Blackberry or Pro1X. This means the Astro Slide is inevitably going to be a bit fatter than the Pro1X, but be easier to type on (and has a similar dual-mode use case, with a big touchscreen and a slide-out keyboard). The Astro Slide also promises 5G connectivity, 8Gb of RAM, and support for Linux OSs as well as Android.
I owned the Gen 1 Gemini PDA (RIP).
It was a breath of fresh air in a world of samey Iphoney devices. Eagerly awaiting my Astro Slide.
My only real complaint (having been a Nokia 9290 and E90 owner) is that the screen didn't have a variable angle it could sit at.
Solid hardware, solid software (to the extent you can get Android software which functions in landscape mode). I never got around to installing Linux on it.
It was a breath of fresh air in a world of samey Iphoney devices. Eagerly awaiting my Astro Slide.
My only real complaint (having been a Nokia 9290 and E90 owner) is that the screen didn't have a variable angle it could sit at.
Solid hardware, solid software (to the extent you can get Android software which functions in landscape mode). I never got around to installing Linux on it.
They seem to have better keyboards, however clam-shell design disadvantage is that you always have to have the keyboard out in order to use the device.
It's more like a miniature laptop than a phone.
It's more like a miniature laptop than a phone.
The Astro Slide isn't a clam-shell, unlike their first two offerings. I have a Gemini which I use as a PDA and it's great. The Astro Slide should give me the best of both worlds, (I have one on order).
Yeah I've looked at the Gemini and Cosmo before but the sliding design of ProX and Astro Slide is what makes me seriously consider buying one of these devices (in which case I'd lean towards the Astro).
Ubuntu touch is the worst of all choices for a linux phone right now. It is based on obsolete ubuntu sources and the browser is really limited
From what I've seen, Ubuntu Touch is the best mobile "Linux" distributions. Other, purely Linux operating systems lack common apps, have janky UIs and are barely functional on most hardware.
Ubuntu Touch runs on whatever the manufacturer or Qualcom have put down as a basis, instead of relying on a standard, open Linux kernel with open drivers. This has all the downsides of the Android kernel, but at least it's functional.
The point of having it run Ubuntu Touch is to show that the phone is not locked down like nearly every other (usable) phone in the market today. If pmOS or KDE Plasma get ported to the device, those systems will probably have the preference of most die-hard Linux users. Doing so requires a lot of work, though, and I wouldn't be surprised if improving or even just using the reverse-engineered drivers for many kinds of smartphone hardware would violate the NDA manufacturers sign with Qualcom.
To me, this device looks like what the Oneplus One looked like when it was first announced: an Android phone that doesn't lock its users out of the system. Getting any non-Android OS to run on the device underlines that without going through the effort to make everything nice and open.
Ubuntu Touch runs on whatever the manufacturer or Qualcom have put down as a basis, instead of relying on a standard, open Linux kernel with open drivers. This has all the downsides of the Android kernel, but at least it's functional.
The point of having it run Ubuntu Touch is to show that the phone is not locked down like nearly every other (usable) phone in the market today. If pmOS or KDE Plasma get ported to the device, those systems will probably have the preference of most die-hard Linux users. Doing so requires a lot of work, though, and I wouldn't be surprised if improving or even just using the reverse-engineered drivers for many kinds of smartphone hardware would violate the NDA manufacturers sign with Qualcom.
To me, this device looks like what the Oneplus One looked like when it was first announced: an Android phone that doesn't lock its users out of the system. Getting any non-Android OS to run on the device underlines that without going through the effort to make everything nice and open.
> Other, purely Linux operating systems lack common apps, have janky UIs and are barely functional on most hardware.
You should probably take a look at Sailfish OS, they had about 5 years of head start to other mobile interfaces on top of vanilla linux. Jolla is one of the few companies that tried to innovate in the mobile UX space over this time in my opinion.
You should probably take a look at Sailfish OS, they had about 5 years of head start to other mobile interfaces on top of vanilla linux. Jolla is one of the few companies that tried to innovate in the mobile UX space over this time in my opinion.
It's not that bad, it was way ahead of it's time with the way the full screen navigation was handled. It's obviously a bit dated now but more due to a lack of users and interest than anything else, I'm sure it could be brought back to a more modern stack if the community was there.
Not so sure. Even native apps did not look great so not sure what devs can actually deliver with it even if they try.
Ubuntu Touch is alive and kicking as its new avatar at ubports.org. It has some rough edges, but I think it has lots of potential.
Still does not invalidate my point that the browser is downright horrible.
I didn't even know it was still around. I remember installing it on my Nexus 4 to play around with it in like 2014 and it seemed like a mockup. All the "apps" were just links to mobile sites. Which I suppose is to be expected since Twitter or Facebook is never gonna make an app for a platform with no users.
But it is far more likely to actually work. Obsolete sources or not, they're further ahead for actual phone stuff than basically anyone else.
I see positive comments about the keyboard, but is it really a good UX to type on such a small keyboard? I mean, when you use your laptop, pretty much all of your fingers are involved in the process of typing, whereas if the same keyboard is part of a mobile phone, you only use your thumbs, which is the opposite of how qwerty keyboards supposed to be used. It feels like the idea of a full-blown keyboard on a mobile phone sounds cool, but when it comes to practice, must be a complete misuse of a technology. It's like if smartwatches were made with 8K display – sounds cool, but how practical it really is?
I think the main advantage is blind typing. No amount of muscle memory can trump the tactile feedback of raised keys and home-row notches. When you're forced to rely on sight, you make more errors and are limited to using just one finger at a time (because your eyes can only focus on one spot at once).
With that being said, I can blind type on my smartphone, just not with a QWERTY IME. I instead use a 4x4 grid-layout (MessagEase [1]) that's large enough to consistently hit the correct zones without any visual feedback.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MessagEase
With that being said, I can blind type on my smartphone, just not with a QWERTY IME. I instead use a 4x4 grid-layout (MessagEase [1]) that's large enough to consistently hit the correct zones without any visual feedback.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MessagEase
and are limited to using just one finger at a time (because your eyes can only focus on one spot at once).
That isn't entirely accurate. It's not because you focus at point x, that another finger cannot be moving at x + y cm and perform the correct action there. I never learned to type blindly. Or at least not in the way this is normally done. However I do have enough muscle memory by now that I can look down at the keyboard, put a couple of fingers in what roughly looks like the right spot and then start typing away with multiple fingers, from time to time laying focus in the center of the keyboard only.
That isn't entirely accurate. It's not because you focus at point x, that another finger cannot be moving at x + y cm and perform the correct action there. I never learned to type blindly. Or at least not in the way this is normally done. However I do have enough muscle memory by now that I can look down at the keyboard, put a couple of fingers in what roughly looks like the right spot and then start typing away with multiple fingers, from time to time laying focus in the center of the keyboard only.
The n900 had a _tiny_ keyboard. But it was practical to type are almost normal keyboard speeds. Unlike on a touch screen, where auto correct gets in the way.
N900 benefitted from tinyness, because thumbs could reach all keys easily. On modern-sized phone you'd need to stretch far more to reach the middle with thumbs
> where auto correct gets in the way.
Even without autocorrect (say, with Hacker's Keyboard on Termux), I still get frustrated by mistyped keys. "Up arrow" instead of space in bash, "o" instead of "p" in org-mode (with speed-commands).
I miss my N900 physical keyboard.
Even without autocorrect (say, with Hacker's Keyboard on Termux), I still get frustrated by mistyped keys. "Up arrow" instead of space in bash, "o" instead of "p" in org-mode (with speed-commands).
I miss my N900 physical keyboard.
It is indeed faster and more accurate to use physical keys on a smaller device.
The competition is the exact same thing btw, with less screen and tactile feedback. Both will give you text thumb repetitive stress problems, but doing that on a hard screen will more so. Remember, this isn't theoretical, we used to use these all the time.
The drawbacks of a physical keyboard are in things like flexibility (you can't easily remap or change the size of the keys) and thickness.
The competition is the exact same thing btw, with less screen and tactile feedback. Both will give you text thumb repetitive stress problems, but doing that on a hard screen will more so. Remember, this isn't theoretical, we used to use these all the time.
The drawbacks of a physical keyboard are in things like flexibility (you can't easily remap or change the size of the keys) and thickness.
The keyboard is actually a little bit too big for most hands, but I have been using this device for about 2 years now and generally it is a dream to type on. It took about a month to get comfortable with the layout but I can thumb type without looking at the phone. I have never owned a pure-touch based phone so I can't really compare to the modern touchscreen experience though.
Some handicapped people, like my wife, need a physical keyboard. My wife is happy with the keyboard in Blackberry Key2.
I don't know how this keyboard will perform but I use the BlackBerry Key2 as my daily driver and typing on the keyboard is such a satisfying feeling for me, I don't really think I am more accurate or faster though.
Added benefit of having a physical keyboard is having shortcuts.
Added benefit of having a physical keyboard is having shortcuts.
It's worlds better than using a touchscreen keyboard, at any rate. I find those absolutely horrible to use and will buy phones with a phsyical keyboard as long as they are available.
See historical: Danger Hiptop, aka Sidekick
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_Hiptop
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_Hiptop
Like the concept, but $800 for a phone with Snapdragon 662[1]? Even with the keyboard and other pluses, that's a hard sell. That processor will be fine for most applications, but I'd hope for something slightly more powerful, like a 730G. I feel like a 662 might be too limiting, and at $800, that's a very crowded market, even if you are targeting a more open device.
[1] https://www.notebookcheck.net/Qualcomm-Snapdragon-662-Proces...
[1] https://www.notebookcheck.net/Qualcomm-Snapdragon-662-Proces...
They probably don't have the quantity to get access to better chips+support.
Yeah, I was fully on board until I saw the processor.
I used to use a Motorola Milestone/Droid. It was great, I really loved the slideout keyboard and could touch type on it. Even with just two fingers actively in use, it felt great. Also being able to type something in landscape mode while still being able to see anything but the textbox and keyboard was phenomenal.
All of that said, typing on a touch screen is fine and I don't think I'm willing to pay the premium for such a device anymore.
All of that said, typing on a touch screen is fine and I don't think I'm willing to pay the premium for such a device anymore.
The first consumer smartphone to run lineage out of the box is a bogus claim. I personally owned a whileyfox for some years which I bought only because of that.
AFAIK it has proprietary drivers probably preventing future updates (like for other Android phones). I prefer Purism Librem 5 instead, which gives true freedom.
Yes, it's really absurd that a niche phone "that gives you control" shuts off most of its potential clients by offering them a phone based on non-free software that they cannot modify.
If you would have asked me 10 years ago, this would have been my ideal phone. But not anymore. For two reasons:
1) touchscreens have gotten a lot better...they're not perfect, but they're finally good enough for a phone. And not having a physical keyboard means fewer moving parts, and fewer physical design constraints, which translates to higher reliability and better performance.
2) Android and linux in general are not good enough for phones. I want a better security model. Android could have been built on top of any kernel...they had to build all of the userland and drivers from scratch. I'm disappointed that Linux was chosen instead of something like L4 or QNX, which would have allowed us to sandbox code that could be potentially malicious, deny access to sensitive resources like location, etc. It would also be far more reliable, with the ability to restart individual malfunctioning driver code instead of your whole phone. And most of the freedoms that come from rooting your phone would be built in.
1) touchscreens have gotten a lot better...they're not perfect, but they're finally good enough for a phone. And not having a physical keyboard means fewer moving parts, and fewer physical design constraints, which translates to higher reliability and better performance.
2) Android and linux in general are not good enough for phones. I want a better security model. Android could have been built on top of any kernel...they had to build all of the userland and drivers from scratch. I'm disappointed that Linux was chosen instead of something like L4 or QNX, which would have allowed us to sandbox code that could be potentially malicious, deny access to sensitive resources like location, etc. It would also be far more reliable, with the ability to restart individual malfunctioning driver code instead of your whole phone. And most of the freedoms that come from rooting your phone would be built in.
It's a sad fact of life that if you want a good phone that will age okay, and be supported for at least a few years with OS/security updates, and will have decent customer support if you run into issues, you're just gonna have to get a phone from one of the big guys.
Making a phone is hard. Every time I see one of these niche phones that tries to appeal to a crowd with offers of "privacy" or "user control" I think it's neat and it would be nice if it was realistic. But it's just gonna be another poorly-supported phone, offered by a small company that doesn't have resources to handle the inevitable complications of selling a smartphone, and where you have the option of being either in:
* Google's privacy nightmare Android ecosystem
* Un-Googled Android where you can't use the Play Store and a bunch of apps you'd want to use don't work
* Some kind of Linux distro for phones that will probably have an even worse app ecosystem than the previous option
Making a phone is hard. Every time I see one of these niche phones that tries to appeal to a crowd with offers of "privacy" or "user control" I think it's neat and it would be nice if it was realistic. But it's just gonna be another poorly-supported phone, offered by a small company that doesn't have resources to handle the inevitable complications of selling a smartphone, and where you have the option of being either in:
* Google's privacy nightmare Android ecosystem
* Un-Googled Android where you can't use the Play Store and a bunch of apps you'd want to use don't work
* Some kind of Linux distro for phones that will probably have an even worse app ecosystem than the previous option
> It's a sad fact of life that if you want a good phone that will age okay, and be supported for at least a few years with OS/security updates, and will have decent customer support if you run into issues, you're just gonna have to get a phone from one of the big guys.
This is not true. Librem 5 will have a lifetime support, beating both Google and Apple, because Purism upstreams all their drivers to get the main Linux support [0].
Any app from Debian repositories should work (except possibly problems with the small screen). Many apps are already available [1].
[0] https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque....
[1] https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...
This is not true. Librem 5 will have a lifetime support, beating both Google and Apple, because Purism upstreams all their drivers to get the main Linux support [0].
Any app from Debian repositories should work (except possibly problems with the small screen). Many apps are already available [1].
[0] https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque....
[1] https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...
> except possibly problems with the small screen
That's the number 1 problem by far. A lot of programs run on it, but that doesn't mean they're usable. Until we start seeing responsive linux apps, the linux smartphone is going to remain a gimmick.
The only people seemingly interested in tackling this problem are Librem and the KDE team (with Plasma Mobile/Kirigami).
That's the number 1 problem by far. A lot of programs run on it, but that doesn't mean they're usable. Until we start seeing responsive linux apps, the linux smartphone is going to remain a gimmick.
The only people seemingly interested in tackling this problem are Librem and the KDE team (with Plasma Mobile/Kirigami).
>* Some kind of Linux distro for phones that will probably have an even worse app ecosystem than the previous option
I have a pinephone and it's the first phone I've had with what I would consider a decent app ecosystem. All the apps I use on my laptop run on it just fine.
I have a pinephone and it's the first phone I've had with what I would consider a decent app ecosystem. All the apps I use on my laptop run on it just fine.
All good points. However, just as an fyi, you can use stuff like GApps to use Playstore Apps without having to buy into Google's digital anal probing.
I never needed customer support for a phone and never done any updates (I have not updated my phone for like 3 years, because I know the next update disables call recording).
I'd love a phone with good specs, as many open parts as possible and with all schematics and BOM so I could fix it myself if something goes wrong.
I'd love a phone with good specs, as many open parts as possible and with all schematics and BOM so I could fix it myself if something goes wrong.
I had the secure enclave in my iPhone 8 fail about 6 months after I bought it. Solution was to spend about half an hour on the phone with Apple while they ran remote diagnostics and then take it to an Apple store 30 minutes drive away. 10 minutes spent with Apple store employee while they ran even more diagnostics resulted in them handing me a replacement phone and I walked out.
The ability to fairly quickly resolve my hardware problem greatly impressed me. I expect I could get a similar level of service with a Samsung device at a non-Samsung retailer, or if I bought the phone originally through a mobile phone operator's storefront and brought it back to the same store for warranty, but there's no promise of that.
For something which is critical to the operation of my life, I have chosen to compromise on some desires and will likely continue to buy iPhones in the future simply because they work fairly well and when they don't I can get it fixed rather easily and with minimal downtime by Apple itself.
The ability to fairly quickly resolve my hardware problem greatly impressed me. I expect I could get a similar level of service with a Samsung device at a non-Samsung retailer, or if I bought the phone originally through a mobile phone operator's storefront and brought it back to the same store for warranty, but there's no promise of that.
For something which is critical to the operation of my life, I have chosen to compromise on some desires and will likely continue to buy iPhones in the future simply because they work fairly well and when they don't I can get it fixed rather easily and with minimal downtime by Apple itself.
I would never give my phone to the support under any circumstances. I just don't trust that they'll handle my data securely and who knows where my phone will land - some subcontractors instead of disposing it could try to refurbish. I've seen cases where someone bought a phone still with someone's data on it.
I look on forums to see what kind of problems people have with a particular phone and if there is nothing serious, then I consider buying it.
If something happens to my phone I destroy it myself and get a new one.
That's a very security minded methodology. But I cannot comfortably afford to throw away a phone which is under warranty when it has a hardware issue.
The Apple store employee made sure to show me they were executing the erase of my phone before I left the table. I had to put in my passcode to initiate the erase.
The Apple store employee made sure to show me they were executing the erase of my phone before I left the table. I had to put in my passcode to initiate the erase.
> I have not updated my phone for like 3 years
So you are using an outdated browser with security bugs? Good luck with that...
So you are using an outdated browser with security bugs? Good luck with that...
I think the browser itself gets updates, but I have not updated the OS. I also only visit a handful of websites that I trust.
If I want to "wander off" then I am using Tails on a dedicated computer.
Seems pretty cool. This SOC is bound to have pretty good upstream linux support to, since the Snapdragon 660 is in very good shape.
The 662 is much newer (what a weird numbering scheme…) so there's probably many differences to the 660..
It is likely based on an older silicon base design. Snapdragon 662 seems to have the internal Qcom id sm6115[1]. Being based on linux v4.19[2] also seems to point in this direction. Another hint is it shipping the same CPU core versions as the 660.
It seems to be a 11nm part as opposed to the 660 which is a 14nm part.
This all being said, it won't be plug & play with upstream linux today. But probably soon enough. This project likely is based on Qcom downstream kernels for the moment.
[1] https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/qualcomm/snapdragon_600/662
[2] https://github.com/moto-sm6115/kernel_motorola_bengalito
It seems to be a 11nm part as opposed to the 660 which is a 14nm part.
This all being said, it won't be plug & play with upstream linux today. But probably soon enough. This project likely is based on Qcom downstream kernels for the moment.
[1] https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/qualcomm/snapdragon_600/662
[2] https://github.com/moto-sm6115/kernel_motorola_bengalito
So many OS options, but no webOS open source edition. I might get one just to port it. I miss that OS and my Palm Pre.
webOS was such a good mobile OS, the Palm Pre is hands down my favourite phone.
Imagine how awesome webOS would be today with the support of PWAs?
Imagine how awesome webOS would be today with the support of PWAs?
Will this have mainline Linux support?
Happy there are more Linux phones on the market. When there is a good premium Linux phone with open boot loader I will buy one. Smartphones are really small computers and we should be able to run whatever operating system one wants on them. Freedom as free choice of os.
Physical keyboards have interesting usage modalities.
One of my colleagues told me she missed physical keyboards because touchscreens are harder to use with acrylic nails. They can be used without turning the screen on, etc.
I wonder to what extent input technologies have a fashion cycle.
One of my colleagues told me she missed physical keyboards because touchscreens are harder to use with acrylic nails. They can be used without turning the screen on, etc.
I wonder to what extent input technologies have a fashion cycle.
I've had phones with landscape and portrait mode keyboards, and the latter were invariably better. Maybe it's just that Palm and RIM were better at making keyboards, but I'm not interested in a landscape keyboard at this point
I would put an offensively large bet on BlackBerry putting absurd amounts of effort into their keyboards, instead of landscape being inherently worse. Based on everything I've ever seen, heard, and read, they cared deeply about hardware design. "Losing the Signal", regarding the rise and fall on BlackBerry, made it clear they tested for things like drops extensively, and (IIRC) went as far as literally throwing at least one device around to ensure it would survive.
And then they were pushed to push the Storm out the door, which pushed many people away. Things only really went downhill from there, sadly. That said, my KeyOne is still my favourite phone ever, and I'll carry on with it as long as I can purchase replacement components :)
And then they were pushed to push the Storm out the door, which pushed many people away. Things only really went downhill from there, sadly. That said, my KeyOne is still my favourite phone ever, and I'll carry on with it as long as I can purchase replacement components :)
On further reflection, I think that it's just not that much worse to two-thumb type on a narrow keyboard, and a landscape isn't big enough to five finger type, but to big to single-thumb type.
I would buy a Linux smartphone with a Blackberry style keyboard (this means no fiddly slideouts) for my handicapped wife as long as Android apps can be made to work, by sideloading, emulating or whatever.
I would like to see the keyboard layout but I can't find any photo.
See [1], source: FTA.
This is the spiritual successor of the Nokia N900, and it isn't a very good keyboard (but a better layout than N900). Its pretty much a rebrand of the same device with the same name from 2019 without the 'X'. Difference is it has better OS support (thanks to XDA, I guess), different SOC (recent SD600 series instead of SD835), and a different colour (blue instead of grey).
If you want a very good hardware keyboard use whatever BT or USB (such as HHKB) or try one of the Planet devices (Gemini/Cosmo/Astro). I own a Cosmo, the keyboard is superb. They all have the very same keyboard. Right now, I'd opt for an Astro instead of Cosmo. Also slider instead of candybar + horizontal flip, and a more recent SOC (D800), with a proven track record of keyboard.
[1] https://www.fxtec.com/images/pro1x-landscape.jpg
This is the spiritual successor of the Nokia N900, and it isn't a very good keyboard (but a better layout than N900). Its pretty much a rebrand of the same device with the same name from 2019 without the 'X'. Difference is it has better OS support (thanks to XDA, I guess), different SOC (recent SD600 series instead of SD835), and a different colour (blue instead of grey).
If you want a very good hardware keyboard use whatever BT or USB (such as HHKB) or try one of the Planet devices (Gemini/Cosmo/Astro). I own a Cosmo, the keyboard is superb. They all have the very same keyboard. Right now, I'd opt for an Astro instead of Cosmo. Also slider instead of candybar + horizontal flip, and a more recent SOC (D800), with a proven track record of keyboard.
[1] https://www.fxtec.com/images/pro1x-landscape.jpg
Astro Slide 5G Transformer seems like a really good phone, one that I actually might get once it's past the Indiegogo stage.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transforme...
EDIT: and it has a backlight keyboard!
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transforme...
EDIT: and it has a backlight keyboard!
I bought it on IGG because I want to support these guys while getting it early with discount (though less warranty), plus I like the Cosmo, but YMMV. They regularly got deals with discounts, not only limited to something like BF. Just bit of a bummer the downgrade from D1000 to D800, but its still a huge up from Cosmo. Plus, slide is more practical, I believe.
PS: Re, backlight: aye, it does (at least Cosmo/Astro, not sure Gemini), and you can put it lower/higher/off (I pref to have it on as low as possible). Even on Linux (Gemian / Debian for Cosmo). There's some minor bleeding, esp on side, but IMO not annoying.
PS: Re, backlight: aye, it does (at least Cosmo/Astro, not sure Gemini), and you can put it lower/higher/off (I pref to have it on as low as possible). Even on Linux (Gemian / Debian for Cosmo). There's some minor bleeding, esp on side, but IMO not annoying.
> This is the spiritual successor of the Nokia N900
There was next iteration called N950 which resembles this device even more. Sadly, it never shipped but I think Nokia shipped 100-200 prototypes to app devs before whole burning platform happened.
There was next iteration called N950 which resembles this device even more. Sadly, it never shipped but I think Nokia shipped 100-200 prototypes to app devs before whole burning platform happened.
It can't really be called the spiritual successor of the Nokia N900 if it runs Android. What made the N900 special wasn't just the hardware, it was also that it was running a traditional Linux environment, which means you could use that physical keyboard for all the hacking you can do on your desktop computer.
Termux. Also, all of these devices (F(x)tec Pro1 X, Planet Gemini/Cosmo/Astro, ...) run a myriad of OSes, so if you don't want to run Android you got alternatives (including AOSP-based). As does Nokia N900, just not out of the box back in the days.
There's a photo on the front page...
thanks was from mobile and I couldn't see it. Now from desktop I can see it.
Is the chipset supported by the mainline kernel? Their earlier "linux phones" basicly needed an android kernel and Linux support was close to non-existant.
Am I the only one who thinks that "finger model" on the landingpage is a poor choice?
It looks like you couldn't even use the device with those nails.
Yeah, with nails that long that keyboard would be borderline unusable. You'd need a keyboard with near-zero travel because you can't apply much force to the tips, and the layout of that keyboard is too dense to use the flat part of your nails or your fingertips.
A touchscreen is not very hard to operate, at least, but it's still a bit more difficult and I think having the keyboard out would also make the touchscreen unusable with long nails.
Probably not a big concern for their target audience, but definitely a problem for me.
A touchscreen is not very hard to operate, at least, but it's still a bit more difficult and I think having the keyboard out would also make the touchscreen unusable with long nails.
Probably not a big concern for their target audience, but definitely a problem for me.
No, it's a fine choice. If you can use it with those nails, then most people can use it. And with long acrylics, where there's a will, there's usually a way.
The promo video barely showed someone actually using the keyboard too. From what they did show, it looked cheap.
I type so incredibly fast on an iPhone keyboard that I have a hard time understanding the appeal of a (physical) tiny little keyboard like this.
I mostly just speak to my Android. The speech recognition is so good now I rarely have to "type" anything.
What is the advantage of the slideout keyboard? It might save some pixels while you type, but it looks very uncomfortable.
Rotate the phone to horizontal and you pretty much have 1 line on the screen. Typing ssh commands over the touch interface is a lot of cognitive load, physical keyboard maybe a nicer interface..
Being able to touch-type is the reason I want one. You just can't do that with a touchscreen keyboard.
Can you touch type with only your thumbs? I don't think I could, but you'd have to with a keyboard that small.
Long-term Blackberry user (and I still have a Blackberry Key2) - Yep. I can type out entire grammatically correct paragraphs without looking at the phone at all. That muscle memory was carefully honed in the late 2000s high school classroom!
It's only if I get into the infrequently used symbols that I have to check what I'm typing.
In a quick online typing test I get around 60wpm/300cpm (characters per minute), 0.0% errors.
It's only if I get into the infrequently used symbols that I have to check what I'm typing.
In a quick online typing test I get around 60wpm/300cpm (characters per minute), 0.0% errors.
I was able to touch-type very quickly on my palm pre and palm pixi. Even a modern touchscreen swipe keyboard can barely compete, and you can't use a swipe keyboard without looking at it (well, not accurately).
It's been long enough that I can't guarantee it, but I recall it being very comfortable and fast to touch type on a Danger Hiptop as well.
It's been long enough that I can't guarantee it, but I recall it being very comfortable and fast to touch type on a Danger Hiptop as well.
I was able to touch type with my thumbs on my blackberry, in the before-times
touch type is just muscle memory - you absolutely can touch type with physical keyboards once you learn how.
touch typing on a virtual keyboard on a flat glass screen is hard because they keys are less accurate and don't give you feedback to whether you actually hit a key or not. So you CAN touch type on a screen, just with errors. Way too many errors. Which is why autocorrect is aggressive on all phones these days.
Back when we had physical keyboards on every phone, we didn't need autocorrect because the typing was accurate.
touch typing on a virtual keyboard on a flat glass screen is hard because they keys are less accurate and don't give you feedback to whether you actually hit a key or not. So you CAN touch type on a screen, just with errors. Way too many errors. Which is why autocorrect is aggressive on all phones these days.
Back when we had physical keyboards on every phone, we didn't need autocorrect because the typing was accurate.
You may also like Pinephone with a hardware keyboard mentioned here: https://www.pine64.org/2021/02/15/february-update-show-and-t....
Hmm, is it possible to touch-type on a keyboard of that size?
Of course, it's even possible to touch type on a Nokia E55.
That was my favorite phone; I wish someone would make a modern version of it.
That was my favorite phone; I wish someone would make a modern version of it.
I used to do it on a Blackberry, which had an even smaller keyboard.
I think that actually is easier on a smaller keyboard, since you can reach the keys without stretching your thumbs. On this phone, you'll definitely be stretching your thumbs (on my iPhone 12, I can barely touch my 2 thumbs when holding the phone horizontally)
I have long thumbs so Blackberries were actually a bit too cramped for me to properly enjoy it. Touch typing was still possible, but less comfortable for me than on a side-sliding keyboard like the Droid line had.
If it is anything like the old HTC Desire Z, then it will be super comfy. The downside is the thickness and the increased risk of breakage due to having moving parts.
Looks quite cool, and seeing that the order page is taking a hammering, I'm sure lots of orders are being placed. However the name reminds me of HBOs Silicon Valley show where they end up over-jargoning the product names. I wish they had come up with a more friendlier and catchy name like "Slidey" or something.
And they could then call NFC "Slidey sense".
The promo for Pro1X makes privacy claims but doesn't Ubuntu collect telemetry data from their OSes?
As to the phone, at first I thought the mechanical keyboard is useless, however I can think of situations where on-screen keyboard would cover too much of screen real-estate. External keyboard lets you see more, unobstructed.
As to the phone, at first I thought the mechanical keyboard is useless, however I can think of situations where on-screen keyboard would cover too much of screen real-estate. External keyboard lets you see more, unobstructed.
Ubuntu collects:
Ubuntu version
OEM/Manufacturer
Device model number
BIOS info
CPU details
GPU details
Installed RAM
Partition Info
Display(s) details
Auto-login status
Live Patching status
Desktop environment
Display server
Timezone
Can't you turn that off, though?
I think I turned it off on my laptop.
How do you turn it off?
I think I turned it off on my laptop.
How do you turn it off?
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may they also would need less energy if you can create a smaller screen and instead add a keyboard (no net loss of content screen space). I do not need a big screen.
Display area is one major benefit. I had a google g1 long ago and I’ve missed that keyboard ever since. Imo pressing physical keys is far superior to pressing glass.
Which CPU is shipped in this phone?
https://www.fxtec.com/index says: Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 MSM8998
however, https://www.fxtec.com/pro1x says: Qualcomm Snapdragon 662
https://www.fxtec.com/index says: Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 MSM8998
however, https://www.fxtec.com/pro1x says: Qualcomm Snapdragon 662
For full keyboard I would suggest the Titan [0] from unihertz for $340 (QWERTY 4G Rugged Smartphone) with 6GB RAM and 128GB Storage. I don't, but the specs look interesting.
[0] https://www.unihertz.com/titan.html
[0] https://www.unihertz.com/titan.html
This brings about fond memories of my htc tyntyn. Shame it ran windows but it was a cool device. I could ssh into my servers back when almost no one even saw a touch screen, and the keyboard albeit small, was amazing. If this device delivers then i am 100% buying it.
Had been waiting for something like this few years back and with Ubuntu. But with M1 chip's success, I think we are much closer and it could be worth waiting for an iPhone (or a bulky iPhone) with something like MacOS that docks into a desktop or lapdock.
Website is slow to load but I finally got to see the price after a few attempts: $899 USD.
I love the idea and really need a new phone but man I wish it was a little cheaper. $500 or so it would be a no brainer but at close to a grand I feel the need to shop around.
I love the idea and really need a new phone but man I wish it was a little cheaper. $500 or so it would be a no brainer but at close to a grand I feel the need to shop around.
https://vimeo.com/471380106#t=105s
The moment when the woman tries to multitask Excel and Slack at the same time is hard to take seriously!
The moment when the woman tries to multitask Excel and Slack at the same time is hard to take seriously!
It's all nice and stuff, but does it support VoLTE ? With impending shutdown of 3G networks in USA next year, without VoLTE, you can't really use phone part of the smartphone
Disabling the 3G network doesn't mean they are going to disable the older 2G networks that are widely used to make calls even if connected through LTE. Here (Czech Republic) the 3G network was disabled today and the phone part of my phone works even though VoLTE is not being used.
2G networks are already down here.
Operators won't activate phones that do not support VoLTE and sending emails for past year+ warning of shutdown of 3G network
Promising but I will wait until to see some independent reviews.
The reviews for other Linux phones are always terrible so I am really looking for a simple smartphone running Linux
The only change between this phone and the pro1 (non-X) is the downgraded processor -- so I encourage you to check out the original pro1 reviews. For the most part they are 'if you want a keyboard it is a good phone--it is otherwise mediocre in every way'.
Also - the 'linux' support is a bit of a stretch, the community ported over ubuntu touch which is basically just android.
The Nokia Communicator dream never dies. The original 9000 series was first introduced impressive 25 years ago.
At one point I had a HP Jornada 720 running Jlime Linux with a PCMCIA WiFi card for wardriving (15 years ago).
One of my first smartphones was Xperia Mini Pro with a slide-out keyboard and I loved that thing (10 years ago). This is also around the time of Nokia N900 which had a deserved cult following.
These days I think regular smartphones are good enough for quickly replying to a mail, for any serious work I'd use a laptop.
I don't see a niche for this any more.
At one point I had a HP Jornada 720 running Jlime Linux with a PCMCIA WiFi card for wardriving (15 years ago).
One of my first smartphones was Xperia Mini Pro with a slide-out keyboard and I loved that thing (10 years ago). This is also around the time of Nokia N900 which had a deserved cult following.
These days I think regular smartphones are good enough for quickly replying to a mail, for any serious work I'd use a laptop.
I don't see a niche for this any more.
I had the original Nokia Communicator as well. And I still have a Jornada 720. I also had a Psion 5 and a Psion-style keyboard (from the same designer) is being used on the Astro Slide mobile phone which is scheduled to ship in June, (I have one on order).
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transforme...
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transforme...
I feel like there's not going to be a lot of overlap between people who want physical keyboards and people who like curved screens.
HTC Apache was the last phone I used w/ a full keyboard. I've wished several times I had a full keyboard on my phone.
Reminds me of that failed kickstarter campaign
Welp, the pre-order site is down, I guess due to the hug of death from HN? I'd also really like to order one of those.
I don't need a permanent keyboard. Can someone suggest a good portable Bluetooth keyboard for Android?
I see little advantage vs. any other Android smartphone + Bluetooth keyboard of your choice.
Being built right into the phone is a huge advantage! Even if you manage to get a perfect bluetooth connection (which, on Android, is a much bigger ask than many realize), and ignore the fact that you now have another separate device to charge - there's no beating this form factor. Your options are to use a horrible oversized clamshell design (eg [0]) that turns your phone into a tablet, or don't physically attach to your phone at all and end up being a 2nd device / accessory to carry around with you / manage / lose.
[0]https://www.amazon.com/BESTLIFE-Universal-Wireless-Bluetooth...
[0]https://www.amazon.com/BESTLIFE-Universal-Wireless-Bluetooth...
I used to own an HTC one with a slide out similar to this, that was a good phone..
Would this have access/capability to install apps from the google app store?
Sure, if you use Android on it. I have the Pro1 (previous gen) and it is fully Google certified.
Probably not if you use Ubuntu on it.
Probably not if you use Ubuntu on it.
No way, I can type an order of magnitude faster on a soft keyboard.
likely doesn't run GNU/Linux, as only android drivers-supporting distros are listed as supported
so plenty of blobs and not much to upstream
A keyboard is under development for the PinePhone.
I tell you: this is the year of Linux on Smartphones.
jk
jk
Uhhh, that lady's long fingernails using the small keyboard in the promotional video are annoying.
give me a smartphone with a slide-out t9 compatible physical keyboard
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can't wait for when they come out with a N900/N810 style keyboard!
It sucks, because, I would really love phone with a hardware keyboard. I would place an order, but am afraid of the same thing happening again.