Electric Vehicles as a Subscription(autonomy.com)
autonomy.com
Electric Vehicles as a Subscription
https://www.autonomy.com/
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It's ~$636 per month with nothing down on a 7-year loan.
At the end of 7 years, you can expect the car to be worth more than $20k (obviously depends on usage).
That's $17k in present value.
That reduces you're real payment to ~$410/m.
This is way worse for cash-flow. Way worse short-term, and obviously worse long-term, too.
I'm not sure how companies like this can find customers.
At the end of 7 years, you can expect the car to be worth more than $20k (obviously depends on usage).
That's $17k in present value.
That reduces you're real payment to ~$410/m.
This is way worse for cash-flow. Way worse short-term, and obviously worse long-term, too.
I'm not sure how companies like this can find customers.
One cynical take I can come up with after spending some time on the Tesla forums: Teslas are enjoyable to drive, but buying a Tesla is a quality crapshoot. Rather than roll the dice and see if the particular Tesla you purchase is one of the ones that’s fine or one of the ones that’s in the shop constantly, you can subscribe and if you get a dud, swap it for another. Dealing with the quality issues is Autonomy’s problem, not the individual driver’s problem.
Still doesn’t seem worth Autonomy’s prices to me though.
Still doesn’t seem worth Autonomy’s prices to me though.
Some people have poor math skills and low impulse control; some people have great math skills and high impulse control; and some people have great math skills, high impulse control, and a high priority on having a car without owning a car.
Between the 3 groups, the company might be able to find enough customers to make it happen. Given the egregious profit margins baked into their model, they don't even need to find that many to make it happen.
Between the 3 groups, the company might be able to find enough customers to make it happen. Given the egregious profit margins baked into their model, they don't even need to find that many to make it happen.
Also, used EVs will eventually be easy to obtain and reasonably priced.
At $20K, the first auto loan calculator I tried estimates a $278 payment, zero down, ignoring resale value.
Unless this service lets you switch EV types at will (sedan, SUV, compact, truck, rivian, etc...), I really don't see the point of paying the startup fee.
At $20K, the first auto loan calculator I tried estimates a $278 payment, zero down, ignoring resale value.
Unless this service lets you switch EV types at will (sedan, SUV, compact, truck, rivian, etc...), I really don't see the point of paying the startup fee.
One use case I can think of might be as a way to drive a Tesla now without having to wait a couple years for the supply chain issues to die down. I waited 9 months for a new one, and according to the guys who installed my charger a lot of people pay a large premium on lightly used Teslas just to not have to wait 6-9 months for delivery. All I can say is the wait for a new one is worth it. Pretend you have car payments already and set those payments aside every month. Put all of that towards the payment upon delivery.
it makes sense for people with no or bad credit because they’re substituting the insane fee for a credit check
It "makes sense" only so far as it's an option. Most people with crap credit probably shouldn't be taking advantage of this.
I can think of more than a few high income recent immigrants who can’t qualify for a Honda Civic lease.
This sounds like a rebranded auto lease.
$6000 to start and $500 a month sounds like the terms of a car loan. If you just get a car loan for 5 years or whatever, it might even be less. But then the payment goes away! Yes there are maintenance fees, but those can be covered by insurance for vehicles under 100,000 miles. Don't forget modern cars are generally extremely reliable, and anybody can easily google the reliability of a specific model. Unless you're one of the very few Americans living in a dense urban center, you probably should just buy a car instead. And while it loses value considerably once off the lot, at least you have some sort of net worth intact at the end of a few year term.
$6000 to start and $500 a month sounds like the terms of a car loan. If you just get a car loan for 5 years or whatever, it might even be less. But then the payment goes away! Yes there are maintenance fees, but those can be covered by insurance for vehicles under 100,000 miles. Don't forget modern cars are generally extremely reliable, and anybody can easily google the reliability of a specific model. Unless you're one of the very few Americans living in a dense urban center, you probably should just buy a car instead. And while it loses value considerably once off the lot, at least you have some sort of net worth intact at the end of a few year term.
Of course, with an actual lease, you can often (though not always) buy the car at the end.
"In the future you'll own nothing, and you'll be happy."
Unless your Social Credit score gets too low. In that case, you'll get a free trip to the re-education camp.
Unless your Social Credit score gets too low. In that case, you'll get a free trip to the re-education camp.
> you'll get a free trip to the re-education camp.
In your own "subscription" autonomous EV when it quietly locks all doors and reroutes to the nearest facility.
You won't have noticed though; too distracted by the UberHD++ remaster of 2001: A Space Odyssey playing on the holographic windscreen.
In your own "subscription" autonomous EV when it quietly locks all doors and reroutes to the nearest facility.
You won't have noticed though; too distracted by the UberHD++ remaster of 2001: A Space Odyssey playing on the holographic windscreen.
You guys are scaring me.
In all seriousness, though, I'm currently car-shopping, and I would gladly pay a massive premium for a car with the minimum-viable amount of electronic/connected nonsense.
As far as I can tell, the only legally-required bit of electronic shenanigans is the backup cameras. I'd love a car that just had that, mechanical switches for everything else, and some USB-C/USB-A/aux ports where I can plug in my devices.
In all seriousness, though, I'm currently car-shopping, and I would gladly pay a massive premium for a car with the minimum-viable amount of electronic/connected nonsense.
As far as I can tell, the only legally-required bit of electronic shenanigans is the backup cameras. I'd love a car that just had that, mechanical switches for everything else, and some USB-C/USB-A/aux ports where I can plug in my devices.
Actually, my car has the parallel-parking assist, and I've learned to use it to get a perfect parking job, first time every time! So I've got that going for me, which is nice.
The emissions logic is non trivial. Also, it’s just more expensive to build analog everything these days, and most consumers will think digital is shinier anyways.
If you're looking for an EV in particular I don't think there's much if any "dumb" models, but otherwise if you're not looking for a new car either, then there's plenty on the used and even classic/vintage market.
This.
Increasingly, this is true of ICE vehicles, too. It's why I've pretty much given up on the idea of having a new car at all.
Increasingly, this is true of ICE vehicles, too. It's why I've pretty much given up on the idea of having a new car at all.
Not sure why you're downvoted when even non-electric cars can be hacked and rerouted. The Grand Future also wants fully autonomous cars to not even have old-fashioned things like steering wheels and dashboards.
Eh, it feels like they're merely trying to undercut Tesla's Lease offers. Sure, call it a subscription, and talk about low time commitments (3 months vs 36 through Tesla), but it is the same idea.
Like leasing, this comes with the downsides of car ownership (maintenance, fuel, parking) without the upside of "equity". Based on the submission title, I was expecting something more akin to ZipCar (but only electric vehicles).
Like leasing, this comes with the downsides of car ownership (maintenance, fuel, parking) without the upside of "equity". Based on the submission title, I was expecting something more akin to ZipCar (but only electric vehicles).
Ah, well, if it's basically the same as leasing: never mind.
Funny, I got a ZipCard and never used it.
Funny, I got a ZipCard and never used it.
my first thought also. you might be debt free but you no longer own the things needed for survival (assuming food/work/etc are drive distance).
Realistically speaking that's already the case today because there's already a recurring expense that you have to pay: property taxes.
Not everywhere. Also, one recurring expense doesn't necessarily mean people want another.
I’m ok with own nothing but I’m not ok with pay an large upfront ownership lite fee and get no actual rights Or ownership model
This is not a good deal. The price is not that much cheaper than a 4 year loan (~500 vs 750/mo), you still need a down payment, still pay for power and insurance and parking, and you don't even get equity!
I can't see this being used by anything other than short term rentals and corporations who like stable expenses.
I can't see this being used by anything other than short term rentals and corporations who like stable expenses.
I can assure you for many people, $500 vs $750 is significantly cheaper.
For the folks for whom this is true (and I totally get it. This was me not even that long ago, so no judgments), a $6000 down payment / start fee / whatever is nearly unattainable.
Most people capable of covering a 6,000$ down payment and 500$/month for a car, have the financial flexibly to make better financial decisions.
That still doesn't make it make sense to go for a Tesla vs another kind of car.
This seems similar to https://on.to/. We used this at my last company to test our smart charging app and it seemed like a good deal. It removed the hassle of having to sort insurance, breakdown cover and servicing. It also included free charging at BP, Shell and Instavolt chargers, which I used on a number of occasions.
They did raise their prices recently, but from my calculation it still seemed like a fair offer and it's something I'd use.
They did raise their prices recently, but from my calculation it still seemed like a fair offer and it's something I'd use.
The thing that stands out to me immediately in the comparison is that, unlike Autonomy's very substantial "start fee", that service has no upfront cost, so you really can just rent a car for a month or two as desired.
Onto actually kind of makes sense if say your car got damaged and you need a long term rental. The linked service is shit
The start fee kills this for me. I'd subscribe for a few months just for fun otherwise.
I got excited initially when I thought this was something that would work for day-trips. I recently moved to NYC and sold my Tesla, so the idea of being able to borrow a Tesla for two or three days to get out of the city is definitely something I'd pay $400-500 dollars for if it meant not having to worry about insurance and where to park it when I'm done.
Short-term car use doesn't appear to work in the market. I remember seeing a lot of advertising for Zipcar and thinking it'd be great to engage a zipcar in order to travel somewhere (say, to visit my family a couple hours away) and not have to pay the full cost of renting a car for the duration of the trip.
Except that's not allowed. Zipcar is (was?) exactly the same thing as a car rental. You pay for all the time you're in possession of the car. You're not allowed to return the car anywhere except the exact location you picked it up from.
What was the advantage supposed to be?
Except that's not allowed. Zipcar is (was?) exactly the same thing as a car rental. You pay for all the time you're in possession of the car. You're not allowed to return the car anywhere except the exact location you picked it up from.
What was the advantage supposed to be?
Convenience. Renting from a rental shop involved ordering online using a bad UI, showing up at an office, waiting in line, getting told the car you'd requested isn't available, would you like this instead, would you like to buy more insurance, make sure to bring it back with a full tank, and you're paying for a full day, even if you just need groceries from costco.
Zipcar involved looking for the nearest location in the app (typically a few blocks away, if near SF), picking your car and timeframe, showing up, and driving away. Fuel is included, just use the included credit card. No human contact or upselling required, and you can return the car at 3am.
If you only need a car for a few hours, Zipcar is much more efficient than a traditional rental.
Zipcar involved looking for the nearest location in the app (typically a few blocks away, if near SF), picking your car and timeframe, showing up, and driving away. Fuel is included, just use the included credit card. No human contact or upselling required, and you can return the car at 3am.
If you only need a car for a few hours, Zipcar is much more efficient than a traditional rental.
I tried and rejected ZipCar for exactly that reason. But more recently, Free2Move is offering point-to-point rentals (in Portland) that seem to work well. I tried it once and was happy with the experience. The price wasn’t much less than an Uber, though.
Dang, you can get an older vw tdi and a tank of biodiesel for less than the price of their startup cost - and never pay a monthly fee.
It seems this service works for some people and good for them. Kind of an interesting space Autonomy fills between daily/hourly car shares and a vehicle lease?
Maybe the startup fee should more be considered “club membership” or possibly a buy-in to a cooperative business structure.
This current business model just kind of leaves me feeling the customer is getting fleeced; (vehicle) ownership has many upsides including the opportunity to “add value to” a vehicle along with resale.
Im additionally curious how this sub model works because of the ev infrastructure - sure you can always charge it at a public place (know people who do this) but for convenience a home charging setup seems like a reasonable investment. And if one is going to do that they may as well purchase the vehicle.
Im additionally curious how this sub model works because of the ev infrastructure - sure you can always charge it at a public place (know people who do this) but for convenience a home charging setup seems like a reasonable investment. And if one is going to do that they may as well purchase the vehicle.
Few things I’m never going to have on subscription.
My house, my car, my bike
My house, my car, my bike
I like how the company is called Autonomy.
Subscription handcuffs are the opposite of autonomy.
Subscription handcuffs are the opposite of autonomy.
I spend the summer driving a Dacia spring.
150 euros / month, then 0.13 € / KM.
I payed a whopping total of 650€ for 2 months. And they’re is no string attached at all.
Edit : I know it’s not the same category than a Tesla ( by far … )
But a new Dacia spring cost 12k€, with government discount on EV, it’s roughly the same price as the deposit for this service.
But then you’re driving a cube of plastic. I like it.
150 euros / month, then 0.13 € / KM.
I payed a whopping total of 650€ for 2 months. And they’re is no string attached at all.
Edit : I know it’s not the same category than a Tesla ( by far … )
But a new Dacia spring cost 12k€, with government discount on EV, it’s roughly the same price as the deposit for this service.
But then you’re driving a cube of plastic. I like it.
The only way I could see this working is as an actual subscription for someone who travels a lot. When I was traveling regularly I would have loved to have a subscription package that would have allowed me to bypass the rental counters and just pick up a car and go. What's described here is just an overpriced rental.
Seems like a great, timely idea (given the right financing). I 'spect there are a lot of people who need to use a car without the expense of owning a car (so it can sit unused for 20 hours most days).
How is this different from leasing a car?
"You will own nothing and you will love it".
No thanks
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I like that they're trying to get people into EVs. Given the lack of availability of EVs in general it seems this might get more interest than it would have say, last year.
The fact that they only have Tesla vehicles seems to indicate that Tesla is executing where other manufacturers are not able to.
The fact that they only have Tesla vehicles seems to indicate that Tesla is executing where other manufacturers are not able to.
> The fact that they only have Tesla vehicles seems to indicate that Tesla is executing where other manufacturers are not able to.
I think it says more about the subscription company than it does about Tesla. It may imply a bias towards Tesla, a private negated deal, or an investor requirement.
I think it says more about the subscription company than it does about Tesla. It may imply a bias towards Tesla, a private negated deal, or an investor requirement.
While the deposit is refundable, the start fee doesn’t appear to be. So in 1yr, your total outlay is $16,680 for a $48,600 car. That’s essentially a 3 year payoff + 500 for deposits, and you don’t end up with a car after.
It’s not immediately clear what the advantage is here, I guess unless you can’t qualify for a regular car loan. But the equity cost here is very high.
They claim a loan on this car at 4.25% would cost 1900/mo, but it’s more like 1300. And Tesla financing is as low as 2.9%, which is 1277/mo if you put 4500 down. Those go to 1203/mo and 1178/mo respectively if you put down 7900.
I dunno. Nothing about this seems like a particularly good deal or good for it’s users. They don’t get the tax credits, they don’t get the equity, they just get a more economical rental. It doesn’t even look like there’s a purchase option in the end like a regular lease.
Maybe I’m being cynical here, and I will admit I have never quite understood the appeal of leasing anyway, but this concept just totally escapes me, and the numbers don’t make a good deal of sense to me either.