The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot (2018)(atlasobscura.com)
atlasobscura.com
The Humble Brilliance of Italy's Moka Coffee Pot (2018)
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/make-coffee-moka-pot
318 comments
And this is the ultimate HN answer.
Even in a thread about coffee, it must mention ThinkPads
But I also have the same moka. It’s good
Even in a thread about coffee, it must mention ThinkPads
But I also have the same moka. It’s good
It's not the ultimate thread, though, until someone mentions that ThinkPads are made by Lenovo who got caught including spyware in their laptops. That reply will get at least 2 replies that say, 'yah but never in the thinkpad lineup'
yah but never in the thinkpad lineup
yah but never in the thinkpad lineup
yeah but never in the thinkpad lineup
I believe the 9090 doesn’t usually have a red flourish, but this[0] anniversary edition does, and if you look at other Sapper work[1] you’ll see how the red highlight, like the track point[2] seems to fit into a theme of his he works into various products.
[0] https://www.finnishdesignshop.com/design-stories/classic/ale...
[1] https://www.artemide.com/en/subfamily/18869/tizio
[2] https://money.cnn.com/gallery/technology/2015/01/08/thinkpad...
[0] https://www.finnishdesignshop.com/design-stories/classic/ale...
[1] https://www.artemide.com/en/subfamily/18869/tizio
[2] https://money.cnn.com/gallery/technology/2015/01/08/thinkpad...
To be fair, it's like a combination of their two favorite things
If you go on the ThinkPad forums all they talk about is Moka Pots.
It's turtles all the way down!
It's turtles all the way down!
To save anyone from googling this
https://eu.alessi.com/products/9090-espresso-coffee-maker
The problem with traditional moka pots is that they can not be used on induction stoves. As people move from gaz to induction, they abandon Bialetti and Alessi gadgets.
You can just use the ones suitable for induction stoves, though? I love my Bialetti induction moka pot.
From what I've seen, stainless steel Bialettis (what you need for induction) are not the original "made in Italy". Not that it is necessarily a bad thing, but there is little point sticking with the Bialetti brand if you want an induction moka pot.
I've found that you have to use less heat on them so that the coffee extracts slower than the traditional bialetti and the "knockoff" that I bought was about as good. With similar heat I coudl tell just by the color it wasn't extracting the same
Generally you want to use as little heat as possible when brewing with a moka pot. The most common issue people have with them is bitter coffee caused by burning their ground. The usual advice is to boil the water before filling and chilling as soon as the pot starts bubbling.
From my point of view, if what you are looking for is a very finicky way of making coffee, you have two options: a cheap moka pot or an expensive coffee machine. Then again, I do have a Silvia. Finicky has a certain appeal.
From my point of view, if what you are looking for is a very finicky way of making coffee, you have two options: a cheap moka pot or an expensive coffee machine. Then again, I do have a Silvia. Finicky has a certain appeal.
Adapters also exist, which I use
> The problem with traditional moka pots is that they can not be used on induction stoves.
Wrong. Any kind of ferromagnetic sheet of metal (ie even your random iron pie pan) will pick up induction. I regularly use a standard moka pot on my induction stove.
Wrong. Any kind of ferromagnetic sheet of metal (ie even your random iron pie pan) will pick up induction. I regularly use a standard moka pot on my induction stove.
Aren't a lot of them aluminum? Or are those not "traditional"?
The traditional ones are aluminum and therefore need an adapter to use on an induction stove which can be a simple ferrous sheet. The gp was quite obnoxious about saying that though.
Well then TIL that my moka is not a standard one... It was bought recently tho (like ~5 years ago), so perhaps it's gone standard to put some ferrous thing at the bottom, idk.
Meh, you simply need an "adapter", a disk of metal that is compatible with induction stoves and will warm the moka pot on top.
Alessi 9090 is suitable for induction. Source: me. I used to use it on induction and you can also check on Alessi website (https://eu.alessi.com/products/9090-espresso-coffee-maker). I'm now using it on gas without any problem.
My induction doesn't recognize small diameters.
Bialetti (and others) manufactures also stainless steel ones, not sure why would one buy aluminium ones (when we phased out aluminium from basically all other cookware).
I am super happy with mine, close to a thousand coffees made with 0 maintenance, for 5% of the price of a good coffee machine. And the only waste is coffee grind itself.
I am super happy with mine, close to a thousand coffees made with 0 maintenance, for 5% of the price of a good coffee machine. And the only waste is coffee grind itself.
We have an aluminium Bialetti, but I really hate the feel of the aluminium after a while; I touch it with my fingers but I feel it in my teeth, I honestly can't stand it, just thinking about it puts my teeth on edge.
Long story short, we bought a stainless steel version, and I love it so much. Probably made 3,000 coffees with it, and it's almost as good as the day we bought it. No a single part replaced or damaged.
Really happy to hear they are coming back from the brink.
Long story short, we bought a stainless steel version, and I love it so much. Probably made 3,000 coffees with it, and it's almost as good as the day we bought it. No a single part replaced or damaged.
Really happy to hear they are coming back from the brink.
Yes, just get a steel one. Aluminium ones feel unpleasant to the touch and they don't survive the dishwasher. Two of mine have been killed that way. (To be clear, it's not me who put them in the dishwasher).
They sell Bialetti's that work with induction these days, example: https://www.johnlewis.com/bialetti-venus-induction-stove-top...
I have a Bialetti Venus as my first and only moka pot, and it's still fabulous.
From Alessi’s site:
https://us.alessi.com/products/moka-espresso-coffee-maker-in...
https://us.alessi.com/products/moka-espresso-coffee-maker-in...
Bialetti makes several stainless steel models. They all work on induction and are easier to clean than aluminum anyway.
I prefer Giannina's - they're steel as well and the lock mechanism is wonderfully solid. In my family we had exactly 3: one at my grandparents', one at my parents', and one at my house. The 3-6 cup filter is a nice touch for when people comes over for dinner.
I thought $200 for the Thinkpad Designer's was expensive. Then I saw the price of the Giannina.
I'm sure the locking mechanism and aesthetics are much better, and they're a pleasure to use. But something about a $10 thrift store moka pot works well. And no qualms about taking it on a camping trip, to use over a fire.
I'm sure the locking mechanism and aesthetics are much better, and they're a pleasure to use. But something about a $10 thrift store moka pot works well. And no qualms about taking it on a camping trip, to use over a fire.
what? a giannina is about 60€.
and I assure you they last a lifetime (my parents still use one of them daily from before I was born, 40 years ago)
May you share where? From a cursory glance, US retailers only sell them for 1.5x the price: ~120 USD
Just randomly found one at 99 here https://us.consiglioskitchenware.com/collections/giannina-es... (buyer beware I don't know the details) seems a fair price for the import costs.
The 60€ price I mentioned was from the Italian Amazon.
The 60€ price I mentioned was from the Italian Amazon.
Thank you. I should've specified I was looking at larger 6/3 cup variant. Seems like Amazon.it has that for 75€ versus 120 USD, but I agree that it's a fair price given import costs, running a business, and theoretical customer support.
> 200$
idk here even on amazon it's like 60eur new.
anyway, I'd bring a Giannina over a campfire than any aluminium thrift moka. sure bottom will blacken a little externally, but ours lasted so long they all eventually blackened outside anyway.
idk here even on amazon it's like 60eur new.
anyway, I'd bring a Giannina over a campfire than any aluminium thrift moka. sure bottom will blacken a little externally, but ours lasted so long they all eventually blackened outside anyway.
How’s long have you been using it? How do you like it as a daily driver? If the handle/latch stays tight, it certainly does improve on the twist/twist/twist/twist… of (eg) Bialetti pots.
Three months only, but without a doubt it's the best moka I've had. As a daily driver it's great:
- For some reason it succeeds at temperatures lower than other mokas I've had, which is good for the taste as well as for energy savings and the life expectancy of the rubber piece.
- It doesn't drip! All mokas I've had dripped at some point.
- It doesn't have a plastic handle that will melt if you forget to turn off the stove (yup I've done this).
I'm comparing it to an IKEA moka and several Bialetti mokas. Not fair in terms of price.
- For some reason it succeeds at temperatures lower than other mokas I've had, which is good for the taste as well as for energy savings and the life expectancy of the rubber piece.
- It doesn't drip! All mokas I've had dripped at some point.
- It doesn't have a plastic handle that will melt if you forget to turn off the stove (yup I've done this).
I'm comparing it to an IKEA moka and several Bialetti mokas. Not fair in terms of price.
If you want actual espresso without using much more space, check out the wacaco picopresso. Super happy with it
As Italian I really suggest to buy a Kamira (https://www.espressokamira.net/) if you want to make espresso at home without an automatic cofee machine.
Coffee made with moka is great, but it's a little different from the espresso.
With Kamira, you can have espresso with the simplicity and portability of a moka.
that's an interesting design. never seen that anywhere. do they hold the patent but fail to scale beyond italy? I find usual espresso machines to be too complicated and technical - also too expensive.
[deleted]
> do they hold the patent but fail to scale beyond italy?
Probably yes. It's just a "new" technology, so I don't know what are their plans for the future.
Probably yes. It's just a "new" technology, so I don't know what are their plans for the future.
how does the taste compare to a "normal" espresso machine?
I'm currently using ESE pads with a La Piccola machine but want to move on because of all the trash the packaging of pads makes. The taste is quite good though, even compared to a "normal" espresso machine.
edit: and how hard is it to find the correct temperature? I've often had the problem of my Bialetti getting to hot on the stove
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx5-tBAiOM0&list=PLKby2eyvN3... looks really foamy, I'm not sure whether that's a good thing?
edit: and how hard is it to find the correct temperature? I've often had the problem of my Bialetti getting to hot on the stove
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx5-tBAiOM0&list=PLKby2eyvN3... looks really foamy, I'm not sure whether that's a good thing?
> how does the taste compare to a "normal" espresso machine?
The taste is really comparable with the espresso that you can get at the bar.
> how hard is it to find the correct temperature?
This is the real issue with Kamira. Finding the perfect temperature is a bit tricky and it's not easy to do if you are in hurry in the morning.
> looks really foamy, I'm not sure whether that's a good thing?
The foam is fine.
The taste is really comparable with the espresso that you can get at the bar.
> how hard is it to find the correct temperature?
This is the real issue with Kamira. Finding the perfect temperature is a bit tricky and it's not easy to do if you are in hurry in the morning.
> looks really foamy, I'm not sure whether that's a good thing?
The foam is fine.
thanks!
Ooh, thank you - I think I see a potential present for my Italian Partner, grazie!
(She's recently been using a Nespresso ..spit Thing - a gift from her parents no less - over her usual Bialetti, and I refuse to make her a morning coffee using the damned thing. This might put us back on the path to morning harmony :) )
(She's recently been using a Nespresso ..spit Thing - a gift from her parents no less - over her usual Bialetti, and I refuse to make her a morning coffee using the damned thing. This might put us back on the path to morning harmony :) )
For sure!
She will appreciate it as the espresso that she can drink at the bar in Italy for 1€/cup
Ooh, thanks for this pointer - it could free me from the slavery of Nespresso... TBH it looks like it cannot entirely match the simplicity of Nespresso (I can drop a capsule and push a button in the morning when I don't even know my name, and there is nothing to clean), but it looks much cheaper, definitely easier on the environment, and a great bootstrap story coming from a "difficult" part of Italy.
[deleted]
Have tried the Kamira. Apart from it being a bit weird looking, the coffe does come out really good. Not an espresso though, but a very good coffee.
Thank you for the suggestion, I just ordered one as a christmas present for my girlfriend!
Worth noting they offer a really cheap personalized message option and are on black friday sale till the 30th!
Worth noting they offer a really cheap personalized message option and are on black friday sale till the 30th!
As an American, I never used a moka pot until I moved to the Dominican Republic. Almost everyone there uses moka pots, which they call a greca cafetera. When I learned how to use one, I fell in love, and because of that people started telling me I was "aplatanao" (assimilated). Now I live in Hungary. Here a moka pot is called a kotyogos kávézógép, and when I make coffee with it, people say "you're so Hungarian". Everyone technically knows it was originally invented in Italy, but because of it's simplicity and ubiquity, in many places it's considered "the people's" way of making coffee.
I absolutely love it. It's the simplest way to make a good coffee, and the only form of coffee I enjoy more is a proper espresso made with a fancy machine.
I absolutely love it. It's the simplest way to make a good coffee, and the only form of coffee I enjoy more is a proper espresso made with a fancy machine.
> the only form of coffee I enjoy more is a proper espresso
I'm with you, but my mum (Italian) nowadays just refuses to drink espresso. She worked in hospitals, and they would make coffee with mokas all day long, so that's what she wants. At home, I have to keep a Bialetti and a single pack of Lavazza just for her, for when she comes over once a year.
I'm with you, but my mum (Italian) nowadays just refuses to drink espresso. She worked in hospitals, and they would make coffee with mokas all day long, so that's what she wants. At home, I have to keep a Bialetti and a single pack of Lavazza just for her, for when she comes over once a year.
I've seen the moka on the Croatian side as well, where they call it a "kafeterija." Here's one neat trick some of the moka users there have: put about 1 teaspoon of sugar in your cup, then as soon as the water starts to percolate (about 1cm of coffee in the top compartment) take it off the heat and pour about 1cm over the sugar. Put back on heat to finish percolating. Meanwhile use the back of a teaspoon to grind the sugar into the coffee, really press into it like a mortar and pestle. You need the consistency to be about the viscosity of honey. Then fill your cup and stir. You end up with a delicious, rich, sweet white foam at the top.
Amusing that you say this, since it’s mentioned in the article:
> the Cuban concoction cafecito is made by quickly whipping the first few drops of moka pot coffee with sugar, creating a paste that both flavors the coffee and simulates a classic espresso foam.
> the Cuban concoction cafecito is made by quickly whipping the first few drops of moka pot coffee with sugar, creating a paste that both flavors the coffee and simulates a classic espresso foam.
I come from the town where Bialetti, Alessi, Lagostina and a bunch of other brands were founded. Think about Silicon Valley but for kitchenware.
All these products enjoyed (and still enjoy) great success around the world but all these companies are not in good shape anymore, mostly due to the fact that the product they built were long lasting, therefore they are not forcing customers to buy new products every few years.
All these products enjoyed (and still enjoy) great success around the world but all these companies are not in good shape anymore, mostly due to the fact that the product they built were long lasting, therefore they are not forcing customers to buy new products every few years.
It's a real shame that the economic incentive is to produce cheap, disposable crap that needs to be repurchased for each use
Indeed. And the story of Alessi and Bialetti is a clear example.
I have several Lagostina pans, I'm not expecting to need to replace them in my lifetime.
> mostly due to the fact that the product they built were long lasting
I reckon the real problem is that the Chinese can now produce equivalent wares at remarkably lower prices (because hey, almost-slave labor is cheap), and the competition from actual-espresso makers (Nespresso) is now intense (because, again, they can produce in Asia and hence sell at low prices).
There is always demand for new kitchenware, as people grow and move out of their parents' house. But that demand is typically for cheap kitchenware, which you cannot make in "old countries" anymore without being destroyed on price by hungry upstarts.
I reckon the real problem is that the Chinese can now produce equivalent wares at remarkably lower prices (because hey, almost-slave labor is cheap), and the competition from actual-espresso makers (Nespresso) is now intense (because, again, they can produce in Asia and hence sell at low prices).
There is always demand for new kitchenware, as people grow and move out of their parents' house. But that demand is typically for cheap kitchenware, which you cannot make in "old countries" anymore without being destroyed on price by hungry upstarts.
People have lost the appreciation for quality goods. My Bialetti has traveled once around the world with me, it doesn't burn me when I pour it, there's no rough casting causing it to lock together when it's hot, the plastic handle is made to take the heat and doesn't melt onto the stove, it also doesn't break at the point of connection. All problems I've had with cheaper brands and other person's mokas.
I like getting good deals on things, but if its something that I'm going to use every day, I will buy a quality item over a cheap item because I know that it will cost me less in the long run.
I like getting good deals on things, but if its something that I'm going to use every day, I will buy a quality item over a cheap item because I know that it will cost me less in the long run.
I argue what you’re actually observing is the vanishing middle market. People still appreciate quality, but with the market bifurcating your only choices are cheap crap or expensive luxury. Quality at a reasonable cost is frequently just not an option.
I haven’t figured out the ‘why’ - dwindling middle class? Min-max consumer purchase patterns? Perhaps planned obsolescence is actually optimal on average? (e.g. home mechanics just don’t need Snap-On quality)
I haven’t figured out the ‘why’ - dwindling middle class? Min-max consumer purchase patterns? Perhaps planned obsolescence is actually optimal on average? (e.g. home mechanics just don’t need Snap-On quality)
I’ve thought this, too, and like you I don’t have a compelling explanation. It’s true that the middle class is dwindling, but even the poor today have more _stuff_ than the middle class used to. But it is, as you say, mostly crap.
I’m not sure what you mean by consumer min-maxing, but perhaps this — one thing I’ve thought is that the amount and variety of crap you own in this culture is more important than the quality. And not from a utility perspective, rather because our dominant entertainment reinforces it. It’s a given that you must own a dishwasher, so you get a cheap one — yet it’s literally worse than hand-washing dishes, and needs to be replaced every 5 years. You can’t own one good kitchen knife, you must get a wooden knife block like the chefs have, even if all seven knives are crap.
Many of the cheap tools you buy at Harbor Freight will literally break the first time you use them as intended. This is all told a shocking waste of human effort — every scrap of resource and moment of time spent creating this crap is wasted, burned forever. When often just making something 20% better will leave it “good enough.”
I’m not sure what you mean by consumer min-maxing, but perhaps this — one thing I’ve thought is that the amount and variety of crap you own in this culture is more important than the quality. And not from a utility perspective, rather because our dominant entertainment reinforces it. It’s a given that you must own a dishwasher, so you get a cheap one — yet it’s literally worse than hand-washing dishes, and needs to be replaced every 5 years. You can’t own one good kitchen knife, you must get a wooden knife block like the chefs have, even if all seven knives are crap.
Many of the cheap tools you buy at Harbor Freight will literally break the first time you use them as intended. This is all told a shocking waste of human effort — every scrap of resource and moment of time spent creating this crap is wasted, burned forever. When often just making something 20% better will leave it “good enough.”
That’s an interesting idea, essentially that media teaches us to aspire to goods we can’t afford, thus as a result we buy knock offs instead of humble yet quality.
Min-max’ing refers to an idea that instead of having evenly OK kitchenware (for example) you pinch pennies on the flatware and dishes and so forth so you can buy & enjoy an exotic Damascus steel knife, or fine teak cutting board. It actually dovetails quite well with your idea about being taught to aspire to things we can’t really afford.
Min-max’ing refers to an idea that instead of having evenly OK kitchenware (for example) you pinch pennies on the flatware and dishes and so forth so you can buy & enjoy an exotic Damascus steel knife, or fine teak cutting board. It actually dovetails quite well with your idea about being taught to aspire to things we can’t really afford.
A bit late but a coffee-loving tea drinker here who's struggled to buy a water kettle for their mother and found it completely exasperating.
Part of the problem too is fraud and its downstream effects on purchasing decisions.
I haven't bought a new kettle in about 12 years. Ours at the time was about 70 USD and now costs 250. In that time I've noticed counterfeits of our kettle become a problem everywhere.
A kettle is a simple thing. My wife's kettle she got for a tiny amount somewhere before it rusted out after years.
The first kettle we recently purchased for my mom, a well respected brand, rusted profusely within two weeks.
If you read reviews of kettles, they're filled with comments about them falling apart, rusting, the enamel chipping and the the steel rusting, and so forth and so on.
I doubt the company making this recent kettle wanted this spec; it probably is being produced under spec fraudulently.
What happens is, you buy an expensive kettle, and its a fraud, either because it's a knockoff, or because it's authentic but the actual production models are different from bidding prototypes. So now you're out the same as if you bought a cheap one. Is buying more expensive worth it?
After awhile it becomes pervasive because it's everywhere. It's hard to separate signal from noise in purchasing.
I completely agree about problems in the race to the cheapest, but sometimes I think even when the consumer is willing to pay a bit more for higher quality, if you can't discriminate anymore because of fraud it becomes rational to save your money.
(FWIW, we returned the kettle and got an even more expensive one — we'll see how this one goes.)
Part of the problem too is fraud and its downstream effects on purchasing decisions.
I haven't bought a new kettle in about 12 years. Ours at the time was about 70 USD and now costs 250. In that time I've noticed counterfeits of our kettle become a problem everywhere.
A kettle is a simple thing. My wife's kettle she got for a tiny amount somewhere before it rusted out after years.
The first kettle we recently purchased for my mom, a well respected brand, rusted profusely within two weeks.
If you read reviews of kettles, they're filled with comments about them falling apart, rusting, the enamel chipping and the the steel rusting, and so forth and so on.
I doubt the company making this recent kettle wanted this spec; it probably is being produced under spec fraudulently.
What happens is, you buy an expensive kettle, and its a fraud, either because it's a knockoff, or because it's authentic but the actual production models are different from bidding prototypes. So now you're out the same as if you bought a cheap one. Is buying more expensive worth it?
After awhile it becomes pervasive because it's everywhere. It's hard to separate signal from noise in purchasing.
I completely agree about problems in the race to the cheapest, but sometimes I think even when the consumer is willing to pay a bit more for higher quality, if you can't discriminate anymore because of fraud it becomes rational to save your money.
(FWIW, we returned the kettle and got an even more expensive one — we'll see how this one goes.)
Koken man myself. But I appreciate your points and the points of the subcomment.
There is definitely an aspiration to own more crap. My family is a key example of this and I used to be the same. Now I'm happy with my 1 good kitchen knife.
As for the gutting of the middle class, it feels like there has been a point sometime in the last 10 years where the ship sailed. Those on board with a house and life setup are destined only to get richer while the rest are left on the shore, paying rent for their lives.
There is definitely an aspiration to own more crap. My family is a key example of this and I used to be the same. Now I'm happy with my 1 good kitchen knife.
As for the gutting of the middle class, it feels like there has been a point sometime in the last 10 years where the ship sailed. Those on board with a house and life setup are destined only to get richer while the rest are left on the shore, paying rent for their lives.
IMHO is just the usual capitalist pressure to maximize profits. You can't make stable profits year-in year-out selling the same widget with the same profit margin, nope - you have to grow. So you either push volume, which inevitably drives quality down; or you push price, which drives quality up but inevitably restricts the audience.
Nespresso is debatably an actual espresso maker
> I reckon the real problem is that the Chinese can now produce equivalent wares at remarkably lower prices (because hey, almost-slave labor is cheap)
It's also that they have no problem copying designs instead of innovating and creating their own. So the western companies pays for R&D and marketing and the Chinese CopyCat just tries to match the product as much as it can and flood online retailers.
It's also that they have no problem copying designs instead of innovating and creating their own. So the western companies pays for R&D and marketing and the Chinese CopyCat just tries to match the product as much as it can and flood online retailers.
it's not just about price, but i think market saturation. Apple is selling expensive phones that competitors are selling for a fraction of Apple phones, but Apple expects an average lifespan of 3 years for their phones. Which means, every year someone is upgrading their phone.
In fact Apple got some issues around this with iPad, whereas people are not upgrading their tablets (or laptops) as often as their phones.
If you have sturdy moka coffee pot, you will most probably get one in a lifetime. Same goes for other long lasting products (my mum has still her pressure cooker from Lagostina from a couple of decades ago).
In fact Apple got some issues around this with iPad, whereas people are not upgrading their tablets (or laptops) as often as their phones.
If you have sturdy moka coffee pot, you will most probably get one in a lifetime. Same goes for other long lasting products (my mum has still her pressure cooker from Lagostina from a couple of decades ago).
“Moka 101”: an (almost) scientific approach for the perfect coffee by Ubi de Feo (an obsessive compulsive coffee maniac and great hacker, among other things).
Part 1 & 2 https://www.instagram.com/tv/CTE25jEFg8U https://www.instagram.com/tv/CTE6VpKjvzu
Part 1 & 2 https://www.instagram.com/tv/CTE25jEFg8U https://www.instagram.com/tv/CTE6VpKjvzu
I adopted a few tricks from either [1] or a similar video from James Hoffman’s Youtube channel some time ago (including the foaming milk with a French press one) and it vastly improved my lockdowns. The one useful thing they don’t say is (imo) it’s easier to get it right with a smaller size pot.
[1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rpyBYuu-wJI
[1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rpyBYuu-wJI
Thanks! I just gave a thorough clean to mine, tweaked times and heat and had my best coffee of the year.
I appreciate it, mate.
I'm planning a (shorter) video on gasket priming, which many underestimate :)
I recommend putting googly eyes on the top lid[0]. That way, even if you're home alone you will start your day with a happy friend who will gladly pour you a cup of comfort. Always cheers me up a bit!
[0] https://i.imgur.com/MGUj9cV.png
[0] https://i.imgur.com/MGUj9cV.png
Don't those get hot? Adhesives and heat don't really mix well.
– Tried to once fix an electric kettle with duct tape.
– Tried to once fix an electric kettle with duct tape.
Speaking of duct tape, I'm using it as a bandaid right now. It really is a universal 'fix all.' haha
Yes. The rules of DIY: If it moves when it shouldn't, use duct tape[0]. If it doesn't move when it should, use WD40
[0] A slightly heretical alternative here is to use cable ties, daisy-chained if necessary for larger jobs.
[0] A slightly heretical alternative here is to use cable ties, daisy-chained if necessary for larger jobs.
Arguably cable ties are the plastic edition of pre-tape bailing wire
High temperature silicon based sealants are used for sealing engines. Hardware stores usually sell small tubes (50ml or so) which is enough for odd repair jobs like that.
As you can see in the photo, there is discoloration on the plastic. Yes these have almost melted several times.
Correct, but it doesn't touch the coffee nor do I have to touch that part of the lid, so I'm not too worried (also I just pretend my buddy is getting old and blind with age)
Googly eyes improve absolutely everything. Change my mind.
QED: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=eD8QVQXQevA
QED: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=eD8QVQXQevA
Googly eyes and a dinosaur. For when you want to leave nothing to chance
For the longest time, I used a GSI single-shot moka. It's sold as camping gear; they sell little cups for it... but it's a terrible setup the handle tends to hang over the stove flame and then you can't drink your coffee. Instead, I used turkish teacups of an appropriate size. I used it camping exactly once (used enough gas to boil an entire pot of water), but it's great for use at home. The best coffee I've ever had came out of that thing, cooked on a wood stove, the temperature was just so and the coffee came out one pendulous drip at a time while I sat next to the stove doing homework one cold winter day...
Most of us don't have 15 minutes to wait for our coffee in the morning, but that shot was absolutely divine. Of course, I never did get the wood stove to exactly that temperature again, but now that I'm working at home, it would be worth experimenting with a PID controller.
These days, I use a phin filter and a hot-water pot. Highly optimized for getting me out the door quickly -- I can wash the filter, make a coffee, feed the cat and the kid all in a flurry and it's always to taste.
Most of us don't have 15 minutes to wait for our coffee in the morning, but that shot was absolutely divine. Of course, I never did get the wood stove to exactly that temperature again, but now that I'm working at home, it would be worth experimenting with a PID controller.
These days, I use a phin filter and a hot-water pot. Highly optimized for getting me out the door quickly -- I can wash the filter, make a coffee, feed the cat and the kid all in a flurry and it's always to taste.
Sometimes I think the thing I want more than anything in the world is the time to spend 15 minutes making a coffee in the morning.
I feel like you've just given me my new life goal, a career and lifestyle that enables that.
I feel like you've just given me my new life goal, a career and lifestyle that enables that.
Well, that's kinda the thing that I'm realizing. I want my first coffee about... 10 minutes before I wake up. Add the chaos of getting the kid to school, and I'm not retiring the phin filter any time soon. But, sitting at home, I very well may fashion a rig on my desk that makes the perfect low&slow espresso for my second cup. And, hey, that's a lower dose of caffeine, so I can justify a third cup!
As someone that isn't content with their life, but has 15 minutes to brew coffee in the morning and savour the experience, you've made me appreciate how fortunate I actually am. Thanks.
Your goal is closer than you might think: I've found the time to brew my coffee when I quit the 9-5 rat race and I do remote consulting now, working my own hours. Good luck.
Your goal is closer than you might think: I've found the time to brew my coffee when I quit the 9-5 rat race and I do remote consulting now, working my own hours. Good luck.
This is my daily driver coffee maker. Mine is over 15 years old.
Drinking coffee like an Italian grandma makes me happy.
As an aside, in 2008, I saw a production of Tosca, by Opera North (Yorkshire, England). https://web.archive.org/web/20081025105247/http://www.leedsg... In it was a priest, who glumly watched the action unfold around him, powerless to stop it. His only consolation was the ritual of making coffee in his Moka. Sometimes I think about that opera while brewing my coffee...
Drinking coffee like an Italian grandma makes me happy.
As an aside, in 2008, I saw a production of Tosca, by Opera North (Yorkshire, England). https://web.archive.org/web/20081025105247/http://www.leedsg... In it was a priest, who glumly watched the action unfold around him, powerless to stop it. His only consolation was the ritual of making coffee in his Moka. Sometimes I think about that opera while brewing my coffee...
Italian born and raised, but moved around in various contries.
I own a handful of Bialetti mokas of different sizes. A couple of those are from my teenager years, I don't even remember buying them, they might have been from my parents. I still use them multiple times daily.
Mokas are for life. As long as you replace the plastic gasket once in a while (a couple bucks) and you don't accidentally melt the handle (which you can replace anyway) they'll outlive all of us.
I own a handful of Bialetti mokas of different sizes. A couple of those are from my teenager years, I don't even remember buying them, they might have been from my parents. I still use them multiple times daily.
Mokas are for life. As long as you replace the plastic gasket once in a while (a couple bucks) and you don't accidentally melt the handle (which you can replace anyway) they'll outlive all of us.
Came here to say this. Everytime i look at a moka I am delighted about how sturdy it is, and think about how no one builds stuff built to last as long anymore. cast aluminum ftw.
Exactly: at its core a moka is just a casted aluminium blob. Good luck breaking that one.
Replaceable parts are a few euros.
Replaceable parts are a few euros.
I love the simplicity and perfection of a moka pot.
The Dualit toaster is another piece of "built to last" kitchen equipment.
https://www.dualit.com/products/classic-toasters
Pressed steel panels and all parts available since 1946. They're made for caterers so you probably won't ever need to repair it if you're using it domestically.
We've had ours since 2004ish and it still looks and works exactly like new.
The Dualit toaster is another piece of "built to last" kitchen equipment.
https://www.dualit.com/products/classic-toasters
Pressed steel panels and all parts available since 1946. They're made for caterers so you probably won't ever need to repair it if you're using it domestically.
We've had ours since 2004ish and it still looks and works exactly like new.
I went ahead and bought one (couldn't find my old one anywhere) when my 5 year old Nespresso machine broke a few months ago
The coffee is delicious and I don't have to use plastic pods. And I now spend a pittance on coffee
The coffee is delicious and I don't have to use plastic pods. And I now spend a pittance on coffee
And its like 20 seconds to make, come back in 5 minutes, delicious coffee.
Hats off to the marketing team on Nespresso
Hats off to the marketing team on Nespresso
What scares me about trying moka is I might enjoy it more than espresso (which I add water or milk to anyway) and obsolete my espresso machine and the effort I’ve gone into mastering the basics!
It's doubtful you will. It doesn't make espresso like an espresso machine does; it's more like coffee. I like them both and like a moka and a french press, they aren't really substitutes for each other.
"20 seconds to make, come back in 5 minutes" - how does that work?
The sad thing about moka pots is that they never break or wear out and no one can sell you a subscription for pods or filters. They have a quiet presence and reassurance which is drowned out by the clamour of commerce hammering at your door to sell you something slightly less messy and slightly more convenient at the expense of the planet and your soul.
My flatmate keeps forgetting his moka pot on the hob and needs to buy new rubber seals pretty regularly.
And the great thing is Bialetti sells these parts for pretty cheap: https://www.bialetti.com/us_en/accessories/spare-parts.html
I love that products and companies like these still exist, sad indeed that they have such a hard time to survive.
I love that products and companies like these still exist, sad indeed that they have such a hard time to survive.
I got in the habit of setting an alarm on my phone for 5 minutes after I put the pot on. Even if I think I'm going to stay in the kitchen and watch it, I set the alarm. It's amazing how I get distracted, forget that I put the damn thing on as if it never existed, then the alarm goes off and I think "oh yeah!! the coffee!".
The electric moka shuts itself off with the same system as a rice cooker and is extremely durable as long as it is an all metal exterior. I don't know why they are so hard to find.
To accompany the simple moka pot, buy a simple mechanical bell timer.
Brew time is pretty much precisely 6 minutes.
Set pot on stove, set timer. When bell rings, coffee is ready.
(A timer built into your cooker / microwave can also work, I find their alarms are not loud enough.)
Brew time is pretty much precisely 6 minutes.
Set pot on stove, set timer. When bell rings, coffee is ready.
(A timer built into your cooker / microwave can also work, I find their alarms are not loud enough.)
It really depends on high you turn on gas/electric
In my experience it had more to do with how high the person making the coffee was.
Good point.
Presuming high heat, it's pretty consistent. I've noted this across a dozen or more cooktops.
The surface area of the pot bottom is the limiting factor more than anything else.
Sure, low heat and widely-divergent hobs exist. Standards and conventions help ensure reasonable convergence.
The surface area of the pot bottom is the limiting factor more than anything else.
Sure, low heat and widely-divergent hobs exist. Standards and conventions help ensure reasonable convergence.
[deleted]
Check my comment above about Silicone-made seals
I have stopped using the aluminium ones which tend to go bad, very fluffy and rusty-looking. The Stainless steel models seem much cleaner over time and only need new rubber seals. Unless you forget about it on the hob and melt down the handle (don't do this!)
I for one nuked one by placing it in the dishwasher where it enjoyed a full wash cycle. The metal became irreversibly damaged, or discoloured / phased. The beautiful Bialetti pot was not so pretty any more. So I bought another one!
You never wash throughly a moka, it loses the taste of coffee and you have to start again. The first few coffees in a new moka are not good. You wash with water and fingers, no soap.
it happened to a friend of mine. Funny thing, his father was working at Alessi (also another moka maker) and we both come from the town where Bialetti started. So his father did not understand how his son managed to do such a mistake.
I was helping clear up at a friend's after she had a group of us round for dinner, and i put her moka pot in the dishwasher :(.
It wasn't clear to me whether the pot was no longer functional, or just whether the previously elegant aluminium surface was now rather ugly.
It wasn't clear to me whether the pot was no longer functional, or just whether the previously elegant aluminium surface was now rather ugly.
Aren’t they just (nice) hunks of pure aluminum cast pieces? Pure aluminum surfaces are impossible to undo when chemically damaged but quite easy to sand down and refinish.
In my experience, aluminum left in the dishwasher leaves a residue that can be hard to get off completely. I'm not an expert on the subject, but aluminum is a neurotoxin and is harmful in large amounts, so I would be hesitant to continue to use it whether or not it's still functional.
“Migration of aluminum from food contact materials to food—a health risk for consumers? Part II of III: migration of aluminum from drinking bottles and moka pots made of aluminum to beverages” ⌘ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5388725/
Findings are that drinking coffee from a moka pot made by aluminum will result in a TWI (tolerable weekly intake) of 4%, and that washing the pot in the dishwasher sigificantly increases the aluminum concentration in subsequence brews.
Findings are that drinking coffee from a moka pot made by aluminum will result in a TWI (tolerable weekly intake) of 4%, and that washing the pot in the dishwasher sigificantly increases the aluminum concentration in subsequence brews.
Not sure why people don't use stainless steel versions of them, more durable, nicer, can be used on induction plates. Bialetti has excellent products for this (their pans, not so much).
Practically unkillable if taken a bit of care. At home I use it exclusively for making coffee.
Practically unkillable if taken a bit of care. At home I use it exclusively for making coffee.
Pods also aren’t the same. The coffee was roasted and ground a long time ago, and it’s about 6g or coffee, compared to 22g in a cafe “double“ espresso. You get better result buying a grinder and moka pot for the same price as the pod machine and also it’s a lot cheaper per gram.
That's making the assumption of buying beans as an alternative, but the pods are the coffee purchase. You can also buy reusable pods into which you can put your own grinds - but then you are explicitly responsible for grind size, choice of bean etc, at which point you might as well get an espresso machine. The pod machine is very quick, and pours a cup automatically.
Incidentally, I have a Gaggia classic machine, a grinder and bean, as well as a Nespresso pod machine. The Gaggia is more customisable, but also more work, not just how to pour a cup, but the work establishing consistency in the first place e.g. finding a good grinder, and the right setting, how much coffee in the basket and how much pressure to apply, when to clean and what mods to use etc etc etc
Compared to all that, pods are just as available as beans/espresso grind (maybe more so) and v easy. You don't even have to watch the machine while waiting for it to heat up and pour, and with the right pods the results aren't vastly inferior to the espresso, but much more consistent.
Incidentally, I have a Gaggia classic machine, a grinder and bean, as well as a Nespresso pod machine. The Gaggia is more customisable, but also more work, not just how to pour a cup, but the work establishing consistency in the first place e.g. finding a good grinder, and the right setting, how much coffee in the basket and how much pressure to apply, when to clean and what mods to use etc etc etc
Compared to all that, pods are just as available as beans/espresso grind (maybe more so) and v easy. You don't even have to watch the machine while waiting for it to heat up and pour, and with the right pods the results aren't vastly inferior to the espresso, but much more consistent.
Yeah I come from a house using mokas and the Nespresso in comparison is much more idiot-proof: nothing to spill, (almost) nothing to clean, nothing to get burnt with, and the result is extremely consistent. Mokas and traditional espresso machines are much more temperamental, the latter don't even make decent cups until everything is warmed up properly - which is why bars literally throw away the first half-dozen coffees every day.
I get the environmental critique, and the Nespresso system is definitely more expensive, lock-in, etc etc, but DAMN it's so convenient and good enough for the everyday workload of a single or couple.
I get the environmental critique, and the Nespresso system is definitely more expensive, lock-in, etc etc, but DAMN it's so convenient and good enough for the everyday workload of a single or couple.
Came to know these devices after moving from Northern Europe to South few years ago. First two of these were destroyed when I repeatedly forgot to fill them with water - the plastic handle just melted before I realized my error. Seals usually last years even if you use the device several times a day. Apart from that, they indeed never break.
as a digital nomad I struggle to fit everything into my bag and so the Bialetti is the item that always gets left behind as a "present" to who comes after me. I've been doing this the past 14 years now and like to think I'm the reason why this post finally made it into your reality / timeline :)
I used to feed my addiction via Nespresso capsules and am glad I stopped because it was really expensive but also:
> Recent research (PDF) conducted by a UK-based coffee brand found that, of the 39,000 capsules produced worldwide every minute, 29,000 of them end up in landfills -- https://bbia.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/CAF26_52_Sust...
I used to feed my addiction via Nespresso capsules and am glad I stopped because it was really expensive but also:
> Recent research (PDF) conducted by a UK-based coffee brand found that, of the 39,000 capsules produced worldwide every minute, 29,000 of them end up in landfills -- https://bbia.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/CAF26_52_Sust...
"K-Cup creator John Sylvan regrets inventing Keurig coffee pod system":
* https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/k-cup-creator-john-sylvan-r...
* https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35605927
Discussed in 2018:
* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18718039
* https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/k-cup-creator-john-sylvan-r...
* https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35605927
Discussed in 2018:
* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18718039
All true, of course, which is why I strongly recommend reusable cups like those from Solofill, my favorite. One of those charged with, say, Peet's Mocha-Java, makes a fine cup of coffee.
Still using the first 3-cup ½ Moka pot I bought after moving to Uni when 18yrs old, now serving me for the past 20 years O_O. Have "burned" it three times by forgetting it on the hob and being awaken by the burned smell of plastic. Always managed to get it back to life with a good scrub and a new set of spares.
Some 13 years ago, for the office I got a "modern" Elettrika Bialetti which is a normal 2-cup ½ standard Bialetti with a resistor on the bottom to make it electric. It uses standard computer cables to get power. It powered 11yrs of PhD, postdoc, and academic work.
Last update for my Mokas (~6yrs ago) is to get seals made of silicone. They last a lifetime and now I don't even need to change the seal every four months anymore.
Some 13 years ago, for the office I got a "modern" Elettrika Bialetti which is a normal 2-cup ½ standard Bialetti with a resistor on the bottom to make it electric. It uses standard computer cables to get power. It powered 11yrs of PhD, postdoc, and academic work.
Last update for my Mokas (~6yrs ago) is to get seals made of silicone. They last a lifetime and now I don't even need to change the seal every four months anymore.
Similar experience here, I bought a aluminum one (knockoff I think) when I moved out from my parents, used that throughout higher education and just recently, almost 20 years later "upgraded" to a genuine Bialetti one.
But I somewhat dislike the aluminum ones as they tend to get somewhat yucky over time ... but Bialetti also sells a stainless steel one, the Bialetti Venus. Big fan.
But I somewhat dislike the aluminum ones as they tend to get somewhat yucky over time ... but Bialetti also sells a stainless steel one, the Bialetti Venus. Big fan.
Oh wow, that looks almost perfect. My complaint about the Mika is that it is a pain to clean.
> 3-cup
The sizes of "cups" when it comes to coffee seems to be a bit chaotic.
The sizes of "cups" when it comes to coffee seems to be a bit chaotic.
I've always found "Cup" as a measurement to be fun, in an engine of chaos kind of way.
Tasse - 120ml (4oz-ish), this is historically the base UOM of "coffee cup" originally encountered on coffee things. Often carelessly translated to "cup" in countries new to coffee, regardless of overlap with existing alternate meanings of "cup" as a measurement.
Demitasse - 60ml (2oz-ish), a cup for espresso.
Mug - Wikipedia says 8-12oz.
The USA definition of "coffee cup" as an amount one would serve themselves ranges anywhere from 8oz through over 20oz, depending on who you ask. USA-made coffee machine markings also vary, but are always smaller than consumers expect. Currently Black and Decker's "cup" is 5oz and Bunn's is 7oz, which means Bunn's standard 10 cup machine makes substantially more coffee than B&D's standard 12 cup machine.
Unless of course it is a cup of coffee in a recipe, in which case consider the provenance of your recipe and which standardized (or not...) version of a "cup" measurement is indicated before proceeding: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cup_(unit)
Tasse - 120ml (4oz-ish), this is historically the base UOM of "coffee cup" originally encountered on coffee things. Often carelessly translated to "cup" in countries new to coffee, regardless of overlap with existing alternate meanings of "cup" as a measurement.
Demitasse - 60ml (2oz-ish), a cup for espresso.
Mug - Wikipedia says 8-12oz.
The USA definition of "coffee cup" as an amount one would serve themselves ranges anywhere from 8oz through over 20oz, depending on who you ask. USA-made coffee machine markings also vary, but are always smaller than consumers expect. Currently Black and Decker's "cup" is 5oz and Bunn's is 7oz, which means Bunn's standard 10 cup machine makes substantially more coffee than B&D's standard 12 cup machine.
Unless of course it is a cup of coffee in a recipe, in which case consider the provenance of your recipe and which standardized (or not...) version of a "cup" measurement is indicated before proceeding: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cup_(unit)
It's wild. I believe the cup is somewhere between double espresso and Victorian teacup.
"3 cup" = 1 cup, "8 cup" = 3 cups
I have a 3 cup Moka pot from them too, recently replaced the seal with a similar rubber one but I'd be very interested in trying out the silicone one as well, but it doesn't seem like a common occurrence - mind if I ask where you got it from? Was it an online store?
Online stores like Amazon or eBay have plenty of those (sometimes called also gaskets). The seal tends to become brown over time as the silicone absorbs some quantity of coffe in the process, but that does not affect the taste of coffee and the seal keeps doing its job impeccably (up until ~6 yrs at least, ymmv).
> The sad thing about moka pots is that they never break or wear out
I have a slightly different experience. I have 2 Moka pots, but both no longer seem useable after leaving it on the stove too long. Now anything I brew using them tastes burned. I've tried cleaning them, but I still haven't been able to get rid of blackish residue in the water reservoir base. Any tips on how to fix them?
I have a slightly different experience. I have 2 Moka pots, but both no longer seem useable after leaving it on the stove too long. Now anything I brew using them tastes burned. I've tried cleaning them, but I still haven't been able to get rid of blackish residue in the water reservoir base. Any tips on how to fix them?
A few months ago I gave a sturdy, 6-cup Bialetti to a friend as a present. He recently admitted that he managed to accidentally melt (!) the damn thing down, as he forgot to switch off the fire. I was curious if he really managed to melt the metal. But unfortunately he has not shared a picture of it; he was too embarrassed about it, and he just tossed it into the trash.
Some sibling comments mentioned replacing the rubber seal fixes the issue of burnt taste. I took a look at my rubber seals and they did have a burnt smell, so I'm gonna give that a shot. Thanks for sharing and good luck with your friend's Moka pot!
There's no more Moka pot; now he's on his own. ;-) I'm really surprised that my friend managed to melt the goddamned metal. I was wondering did the metal really melt? How long did he leave it on fire for the metal to melt? The bugger didn't answer these questions.
i think he obviously just melted the plastic handle, you just can't melt aluminium (let alone steel) with even a gas stove's burner.
A drill with a small hard sponge attachment could work? Using a drill with a sponge has been the only way I managed to clean my stove top within reasonable time when something particularly nasty has managed to get burnt there. Maybe a smaller version of it could work with Moka pot too?
Baking soda
IDK why they use rubber whereas knock-offs use silicone gaskets which make a more tight seal (even if said knockoffs never really work).
The knockoffs don't function properly (burn and spit coffee) probably due to different dimensions - I invite anyone to explain what is so critical about the original design. Here's one that doesn't work: https://homla.com.pl/mia-mokka-zestaw-kawiarka-czarna-z-2-fi...
The knockoffs don't function properly (burn and spit coffee) probably due to different dimensions - I invite anyone to explain what is so critical about the original design. Here's one that doesn't work: https://homla.com.pl/mia-mokka-zestaw-kawiarka-czarna-z-2-fi...
> what is so critical about the original design
Maybe material/thickness which acts as thermal buffer and prevents too quick heating?
Maybe material/thickness which acts as thermal buffer and prevents too quick heating?
I do not think so, the knockoff uses more aluminum than Moka Express.
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Well, you still need to replace the rubber sealing ring.
We have a 12-cup Bialetti as our daily driver. Our 6-cup Bialetti is now the travel pot, currently sitting on the inlaw's stove. It goes with us nearly everywhere. I don't take it backpacking, but I have pulled off making coffee with it on top of my backpacking stove. The stack looks like a rocket on the launchpad, ready to topple over, but, so far, it hasn't.
Wonderful technology. Like a Guy Clark song, it's 'Stuff That Works.'
Wonderful technology. Like a Guy Clark song, it's 'Stuff That Works.'
And once again this article ignores the fact that biggest threat to Bialetti's own sales are not other ways to brew, but clones. Simplicity of the design means copies are just as good. I once bought 2cup pot in Aldi for only 4 euros because Airbnb where I stayed only had huge 12 cup version and it was just me drinking coffee. I simply left it there when I moved out.
Which is actually another problem - they don't work very well when partially loaded. So you can't own only one if you ever have guests and don't want to do multiple runs.
Which is actually another problem - they don't work very well when partially loaded. So you can't own only one if you ever have guests and don't want to do multiple runs.
I have a couple of moka pots which I like to use in the summer to make iced coffee. The small one is annoyingly too small for a decently sized drink. So I got a huge Bialetti, since it seemed rude to buy a cheap clone. It makes about a pint of strong coffee which is enough for a couple of very long cold lattès.
Or - given they are pretty cheap - you get a small one for your personal morning coffee, and a large one for when you have guests over.
The moka pot is super cool and I thought it made great coffee...until I discovered that I preferred almost every other possible brew method.
The moka pot is very hard to dial in and almost always burns the coffee. It requires care, focus, and attention. They're much more inconsistent than pour over and even the lever espresso machines I've used are less work.
I think moka pots are fun and worth experimenting with but I find it hard to believe people really love the results. But if you are always adding milk and sugar, then I can definitely see the appeal.
The moka pot is very hard to dial in and almost always burns the coffee. It requires care, focus, and attention. They're much more inconsistent than pour over and even the lever espresso machines I've used are less work.
I think moka pots are fun and worth experimenting with but I find it hard to believe people really love the results. But if you are always adding milk and sugar, then I can definitely see the appeal.
What is it that makes it hard to dial in? Is it the amount of heat? I had very little experience with moka pots until recently, even though I lived in Italy and the apartment I rented included at least five Bialetti pots varying in size from small to large - I didn't understand how they worked, so I never tried, and it was easier to just go outside to the nearest coffee bar.
But this summer I rented a motor home for the holidays (yeah yeah covid vacation -again), which came with a Bialetti. So I looked up how to use it, and every morning I would make a couple of cups for myself and the wife, on the gas stove.
Perfect coffee every time, very easy, no problems whatsoever. The gas stove I used was on max every time, no changes, so maybe that's why it was consistent.. but I don't really see how it matters, as the heat is just making steam after all. So how can you get burned coffee?
But this summer I rented a motor home for the holidays (yeah yeah covid vacation -again), which came with a Bialetti. So I looked up how to use it, and every morning I would make a couple of cups for myself and the wife, on the gas stove.
Perfect coffee every time, very easy, no problems whatsoever. The gas stove I used was on max every time, no changes, so maybe that's why it was consistent.. but I don't really see how it matters, as the heat is just making steam after all. So how can you get burned coffee?
You can get burned coffee because the same container you use to heat the water to make the steam also holds the coffee and that still heats up. If you start with cold water that's more time for the coffee grinds to heat up and if you don't take it off the stove when it's done and cool it down right away that's time for the brewed coffee to start to burn as it's sitting in a heated hot pot.
Most other methods don't have you heat the coffee and the water together so you can only really burn it if you put it on a heating element after.
Most other methods don't have you heat the coffee and the water together so you can only really burn it if you put it on a heating element after.
James Hoffmann [1] and many others recommend starting with really hot water at the bottom, so the coffee grinds have less time to heat up.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpyBYuu-wJI
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpyBYuu-wJI
The main problem I have is that our range uses halogen elements. Which reach a specific temp then cycle on and off to stay there. You’re either too low temp. So the water boils then stops. Or too high, so it bubbles over and burns the coffee.
They work best on gas hobs where you can control the flame height and provide consistent heating.
Optimal brewing temperature is ~93.0°C. So steam is too hot.
Done properly, steam shouldn’t be going through the coffee grounds in a moka pot. The expansion of the air (and evaporation of the water as well admittedly) in the lower chamber pushes the hot water up through them.
If the water steams enough to rise the pressure its definitely not 93 degrees. Also the grounds are heated by the moka itself.
I would think that is the best brewing temperature at 0 bar? An espresso machine is going to reach higher temperatures and makes a good coffee.
https://www.valvesonline.com.au/references/steam-tables/
https://www.valvesonline.com.au/references/steam-tables/
Electric ones are great. Turn on and walk away.
Two tips that worked for me: fill it with boiling water and use Lavazza Qualita Oro. Other combinations do indeed taste sour or burned.
I've been making coffee on moka pots (both aluminum and stainless steel) daily for the past 30+ years and I have never experienced the problems you are talking about. On the contrary: I've tried a number of other coffee makers (french press, aeropress, percolator, …), but after a short time I wall always return to the moka pot.
Just now, because of this thread, I have ordered a Kamira Espresso maker. We'll see how it goes.
Just now, because of this thread, I have ordered a Kamira Espresso maker. We'll see how it goes.
Agreed. I had to read through a lot of praise to find your comment - I agree entirely.
Moka pots are definitely great if they're available, but IMO they're outcompeted if you're in the market as an enthusiast by Aeropresses in the mid-range ($30-$50) and generic steel coffee filters in the low range ($10).
As others have commented, the coffee itself is the most important thing to get right - a great bean brewed normally will beat a mediocre bean brewed perfectly :)
As others have commented, the coffee itself is the most important thing to get right - a great bean brewed normally will beat a mediocre bean brewed perfectly :)
For anybody wondering how a moka pot works, have a look at this neutron imaging of the pot in action: https://youtu.be/VESMU7JfVHU
Every day, twice a day, I grind my coffee and put my trusty old aluminium Bialetti Moka pot on the hob. It's my ritual, and no crappy pods can ever take that away from me. As long as I remember to swap out its rubber gasket, I know for a fact that this pot will neither break nor stop functioning. It's one thing of beauty, the Moka pot. A great feat of ingenuity.
The only thing that saddens me a bit is that when (not if) I will switch to an induction stove I will have to buy a new steel pot, or switch to an electric one. Until then, she's my mainstay.
The only thing that saddens me a bit is that when (not if) I will switch to an induction stove I will have to buy a new steel pot, or switch to an electric one. Until then, she's my mainstay.
You're not worried about Alzheimer's disease? Even if there is no current moka pot-specific evidence (there haven't been a lot of studies), why take the chance?
Rest easy:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5388725/
> Additional human inner aluminum exposure through the proper use of aluminum moka pots is negligible. Even under the worst-case scenario of washing the moka pots in a dishwasher, the uptake amounts to only 4% of TWI [total weekly intake]. The manufacturers expressly warn not to clean the aluminum moka pots in the dishwasher.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5388725/
> Additional human inner aluminum exposure through the proper use of aluminum moka pots is negligible. Even under the worst-case scenario of washing the moka pots in a dishwasher, the uptake amounts to only 4% of TWI [total weekly intake]. The manufacturers expressly warn not to clean the aluminum moka pots in the dishwasher.
You could argue that basically everything has the potential of being harmful in the long term. Red meat, gas hobs, living in a polluted city, plastic, ... People are exposed to so many substances that we actually know for a fact they are either carcinogenic or bad for our health, and yet most don't do that much about it. If you start cutting out of your life even things that are not demonstrated to be bad for you, you're left with basically nothing. One thing is to have actual evidence that something is harmful, one other is to follow any suspicion that is waved around.
We know aluminum is harmful and implicated in multiple serious health conditions.
The only unknown here is the degree of aluminum leeching from the pot to the coffee. For something you do twice a day, this is a different kind of preventable exposure to risk than eating red meat or living in a polluted city.
IMO one would be a fool to accept this risk, even if small.
IMO one would be a fool to accept this risk, even if small.
My 2 cents:
- Al is a known neurotoxin
- Al does not, typically, rust, despite being far more thermodynamically favorable than Fe because a kinetic barrier, AlO2, forms stopping further oxidation
- AlO2 is an extremely durable coating. Extremely inert. It's crystal lattice constant is similar to Al's to it does not flake
- Al does rust in salty environments.
Conclusion:
The moka is fine. Just don't use vinegar or salt water to brew your coffee.
- Al is a known neurotoxin
- Al does not, typically, rust, despite being far more thermodynamically favorable than Fe because a kinetic barrier, AlO2, forms stopping further oxidation
- AlO2 is an extremely durable coating. Extremely inert. It's crystal lattice constant is similar to Al's to it does not flake
- Al does rust in salty environments.
Conclusion:
The moka is fine. Just don't use vinegar or salt water to brew your coffee.
Okay what are you going on about ? Care to source this ?
First of all, thank you for sourcing it. I don't have access to the paper, but the synopsis is very interesting.
I do however find it very weird. For example, how far-spread is Alzheimer's in Italy, where the Al intake must be through the roof. If this was to be believed, then all italians would have AD. (I am fully aware that logically, this is not correct, and that they could perhaps have developed some sort of immunity).
The same could be said about soda/beverage cans. Their use is so widespread that virtually everyone in America should have AD.
The scientific argument may have some truth to it, but I still find it weird that it's not "evident" in populations where Al intake would be through the roof.
I do however find it very weird. For example, how far-spread is Alzheimer's in Italy, where the Al intake must be through the roof. If this was to be believed, then all italians would have AD. (I am fully aware that logically, this is not correct, and that they could perhaps have developed some sort of immunity).
The same could be said about soda/beverage cans. Their use is so widespread that virtually everyone in America should have AD.
The scientific argument may have some truth to it, but I still find it weird that it's not "evident" in populations where Al intake would be through the roof.
>soda/beverage cans
They are coated inside.
They are coated inside.
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> I will switch to an induction stove I will have to buy a new steel pot, or switch to an electric one
Or buy an induction plate adapter. I have not used one, so I cannot tell how practical they are, just saying they exist.
Or buy an induction plate adapter. I have not used one, so I cannot tell how practical they are, just saying they exist.
I have always heard people warning about adapters, because they have a tendency of causing discolouration on black induction hobs due to how unevenly they heat up. I guess that switching to a stainless steel pot isn't the end of the world, it's the only thing made out of aluminum I own.
I came here to say this. I tried the adapter very briefly, and it's very convenient (especially if you already heat your water before putting the grounds in).
A great video guide from chefsteps and James Hoffman on brewing with a Moka pot: https://youtu.be/rpyBYuu-wJI
> Espresso machines, then and now, are gigantic, expensive, difficult to use, and incredibly inefficient from an energy perspective. They do not really make sense for the home.
The author talks about the La Pavoni Ideale, but I don't get how they missed La Pavoni's current bread and butter, the Europiccola and Professional, both of which are more than small enough to fit in a kitchen, make great espresso, and have been sold since the 1960s.
The author talks about the La Pavoni Ideale, but I don't get how they missed La Pavoni's current bread and butter, the Europiccola and Professional, both of which are more than small enough to fit in a kitchen, make great espresso, and have been sold since the 1960s.
If we are talking about efficiency, you can brew wonderful coffee w/o ever getting up to 100C. Using steam to diffuse out the essence from the grounds is one great way, but there are so many other ones as well.
Coffee brewing is like a thermodynamic engine diagram, lots of different routes along the temperature, pressure, mass, flow rate, ground size and packed density dimensions.
Coffee brewing is like a thermodynamic engine diagram, lots of different routes along the temperature, pressure, mass, flow rate, ground size and packed density dimensions.
I love the idea of a La Pavoni hand pump machine. Such a beautiful design.
Sadly though, the truth is I can barely work my existing semi-automatic espresso maker until I've had my first shot of the day!
If I had a fully manual machine that first shot would end in some kind of Clouseauesque[1] destruction of my kitchen...
1. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Clouseauesque
Sadly though, the truth is I can barely work my existing semi-automatic espresso maker until I've had my first shot of the day!
If I had a fully manual machine that first shot would end in some kind of Clouseauesque[1] destruction of my kitchen...
1. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Clouseauesque
If your Moka is making bitter coffee you are setting the temperature too high. It's easy to experiment with this. Setting the heat to 4 on a Panasonic induction cooktop gets me a non bitter brew everytime. 5 is okay if I'm in a rush. 6 is always terrible. This is with a Bialetti stainless steel pot.
As mentioned elsewhere where in this discussion the Moka does not make coffee through boiling but rather via vapor pressure.
As mentioned elsewhere where in this discussion the Moka does not make coffee through boiling but rather via vapor pressure.
Also consider your grind size. If it's bitter, try a slightly coarser grind. I see a lot of people using espresso grind for their Moka, but personally I find going somewhere around halfway between espresso and pour over (erring on the side of pour over) to give a much nicer flavour.
Another tip I picked up from can't-remember-where: Heat the water before installing the coffee. A kettle is best but I've preheated the bottom half on the stove as well. Brewing starts right away, without baking the grounds for minutes in advance while the rest of the operation gets up to temp.
Best done with extreme caution, as near boiling water will do your fingers in if it goes over. I set the bottom on a grippy surface, wind the top on, and only have to get a grip on the base for the final cinch.
Best done with extreme caution, as near boiling water will do your fingers in if it goes over. I set the bottom on a grippy surface, wind the top on, and only have to get a grip on the base for the final cinch.
> Best done with extreme caution, as near boiling water will do your fingers in if it goes over. I set the bottom on a grippy surface, wind the top on, and only have to get a grip on the base for the final cinch.
Pro-tip: get yourself an ove-glove or equivalent knock-off and never burn your hand again:
https://www.amazon.com/Ove-Glove-Resistant-Resistance-Househ...
Pro-tip: get yourself an ove-glove or equivalent knock-off and never burn your hand again:
https://www.amazon.com/Ove-Glove-Resistant-Resistance-Househ...
> Best done with extreme caution, as near boiling water will do your fingers in if it goes over. I set the bottom on a grippy surface, wind the top on, and only have to get a grip on the base for the final cinch.
Yeah, that's probably the most troublesome part of my daily moka experience too.
I use a paper towel and grip it at the valve to minimise contact.
Yeah, that's probably the most troublesome part of my daily moka experience too.
I use a paper towel and grip it at the valve to minimise contact.
Just beware of cheap china replicas, a study from some time ago found alarming levels of lead in many of these. Always buy the original one, you can't go wrong anyway as they really can last a lifetime.
> Espresso machines, then and now, are gigantic, expensive, difficult to use, and incredibly inefficient from an energy perspective.
Interestingly that's not my experience with Moka Coffe Pots. The 2-pot Bialetti I have takes a long while to heat and is almost always too small for the heat source I have available. Electric stove fields are too wide, and camping gas heaters seem to wrap the flames more around the pot than boiling it properly. After the water is steaming, you also need to sustain the heat for a bit to let the steam travel through. In total, it feels like a lot of wasted heat energy for a little bit of coffee.
I have a Flare Espresso machine (piston, manually operated) that just requires boiling water that I can get from a more efficient source like a pot matching the stove, a water boiler or even a good thermos (!) when travelling ;-) And the result I get out of that is a "proper" espresso because you can easily hit 10 bars of pressure, by applying gentle pressure on the lever.
Interestingly that's not my experience with Moka Coffe Pots. The 2-pot Bialetti I have takes a long while to heat and is almost always too small for the heat source I have available. Electric stove fields are too wide, and camping gas heaters seem to wrap the flames more around the pot than boiling it properly. After the water is steaming, you also need to sustain the heat for a bit to let the steam travel through. In total, it feels like a lot of wasted heat energy for a little bit of coffee.
I have a Flare Espresso machine (piston, manually operated) that just requires boiling water that I can get from a more efficient source like a pot matching the stove, a water boiler or even a good thermos (!) when travelling ;-) And the result I get out of that is a "proper" espresso because you can easily hit 10 bars of pressure, by applying gentle pressure on the lever.
> The 2-pot Bialetti I have takes a long while to heat
Do you put cold water in the bottom thingy and heat it up on the stove? When I started using moka pots, I read that you should put pre-boiled hot water in there and then put it on medium to low heat on the stove. Even with that I still find it a bit too quick sometimes.
Do you put cold water in the bottom thingy and heat it up on the stove? When I started using moka pots, I read that you should put pre-boiled hot water in there and then put it on medium to low heat on the stove. Even with that I still find it a bit too quick sometimes.
Surprised to read about problems of Bialetti. I see their moka pots in the kitchen shops everywhere. I have two. I guess you never know what's going on behind the scenes.
These days I use an aeropress more often, it's similar in terms of convenience but is faster and more importantly I find it doesn't require heating the coffee as much, which makes it taste better.
These days I use an aeropress more often, it's similar in terms of convenience but is faster and more importantly I find it doesn't require heating the coffee as much, which makes it taste better.
I have three, 1 cup, 3 cup and 9 cup.
1 cup is for me and my wife (we wait while the other finishes)
2 cup is for when we a guest
9 cup is for my 70 year old parents. I cringe just seeing them drink 4.5 cups each.
1 cup is for me and my wife (we wait while the other finishes)
2 cup is for when we a guest
9 cup is for my 70 year old parents. I cringe just seeing them drink 4.5 cups each.
I haven't used a moka pot for decades; IME, they made bitter coffee. Since they still work the same way, I don't imagine that's changed.
It's possible that my taste in coffee has changed over time, though; back then I didn't really like strong coffee, now I do.
The article doesn't deal much with the character of the coffee produced, nor the effect of the huge difference in pressure between a moka pot and a (professional) Gaggia. My tame barrista makes a big deal about how important the correct pressure is. Also: I wonder whether the pressurised boiling chamber results in water that is hotter than 100C, yielding bitter coffee.
It's possible that my taste in coffee has changed over time, though; back then I didn't really like strong coffee, now I do.
The article doesn't deal much with the character of the coffee produced, nor the effect of the huge difference in pressure between a moka pot and a (professional) Gaggia. My tame barrista makes a big deal about how important the correct pressure is. Also: I wonder whether the pressurised boiling chamber results in water that is hotter than 100C, yielding bitter coffee.
Beans and roast matter, and I've found that beans better suited to drip or pressed coffee don't do well in a Moka pot. Dark / espresso roast FTW.
> Espresso machines, then and now, are gigantic, expensive, difficult to use, and incredibly inefficient from an energy perspective.
Every one of these four statements is so comically false that you cannot help to attribute a dose of bad faith in the author. You can buy a real espresso machine that fits in a 15cm x 30cm base (like two bottles of water side by side) for about 100EUR, which is definitely easier to use than a moka pot, and does not waste energy by heating the air in the kitchen.
Every one of these four statements is so comically false that you cannot help to attribute a dose of bad faith in the author. You can buy a real espresso machine that fits in a 15cm x 30cm base (like two bottles of water side by side) for about 100EUR, which is definitely easier to use than a moka pot, and does not waste energy by heating the air in the kitchen.
Which one did you get?
What machine are you referring to?
They are probably referring to the Delonghi Dedica. Out of the box it comes with a pressurized basket. If you are not familiar with coffee machines, this type of basket will not give you espresso like at an espresso bar. Coffee ground for espresso on this machine will choke it. Instead it is designed to be more forgiving of grind size. You can put store bought pre-ground coffee in it. The basket itself provides resistance and the value will open when it hits 9bar internally.
You can get a normal basket for it since the pump can hit the required pressures for espresso. But they use their own basket size, so just be careful what you get. The steam wand also uses a froth-aider so you won't be getting the silky microfoam that can pour art. I've used the Dedica before and it's ok.
For my money I'd get the Breville Bambino if you want this style of machine. I believe the latest model comes with a pressurized and normal basket. And the automated milk steamer is actually quite impressive. Milk foams up well enough to pour art and it does an admirable job at soy milk.
You can get a normal basket for it since the pump can hit the required pressures for espresso. But they use their own basket size, so just be careful what you get. The steam wand also uses a froth-aider so you won't be getting the silky microfoam that can pour art. I've used the Dedica before and it's ok.
For my money I'd get the Breville Bambino if you want this style of machine. I believe the latest model comes with a pressurized and normal basket. And the automated milk steamer is actually quite impressive. Milk foams up well enough to pour art and it does an admirable job at soy milk.
I don't want to make publicity of a brand here, but I just went to a local shop and got the smallest one that got to 19 bar. It makes excellent expressos with cream and all (if you buy appropriately ground coffee).
EDIT: just look for "thin espresso machine" on a search engine, there's plenty of choice!
EDIT: just look for "thin espresso machine" on a search engine, there's plenty of choice!
> It makes excellent expressos with cream and all (if you buy appropriately ground coffee).
Most cheap espresso machines achieve crema and pressure via a pressurised portafilter [1].
Nothing wrong with having one as a beginner, but you're stuck with using coarser grinds because of the always-there pressure, and it limits the number of variables you're able to play with to "dial in" beans.
[1] https://coffee.stackexchange.com/questions/2641/how-big-of-a...
Most cheap espresso machines achieve crema and pressure via a pressurised portafilter [1].
Nothing wrong with having one as a beginner, but you're stuck with using coarser grinds because of the always-there pressure, and it limits the number of variables you're able to play with to "dial in" beans.
[1] https://coffee.stackexchange.com/questions/2641/how-big-of-a...
I'm definitely a "beginner", but still can see that from moka pot to cheap espresso there is a world of difference, and from cheap expresso to "serious" espresso the difference is very subtle (to my tastebuds).
Nespresso's promise 19 bar as well, but they use a simple PTC element to heat the water as they pass over it so in reality it's "up to 19 bar"
I got an espresso machine at the start of last year and I just can’t imagine using anything else now. They aren’t immediacy obvious how to use, but after a quick read of the manual, anyone could do it. And the thing uses such a trivial amount of energy I could just turn my house heating off for a day to save several years worth of coffee making.
Strange that this crops up now because my mother just found one at her second hand store and started using it last week. Showed it to me this weekend when I visited.
She's bosnian so she's made coffee with a turkish coffee pot directly on the stove most of my life. As a kid I would also grind beans for her in an old brass hand cranked grinder from Bosnia. When you grind the beans yourself by hand they do tend to be a bit coarser, fitting for the moka pot.
She's bosnian so she's made coffee with a turkish coffee pot directly on the stove most of my life. As a kid I would also grind beans for her in an old brass hand cranked grinder from Bosnia. When you grind the beans yourself by hand they do tend to be a bit coarser, fitting for the moka pot.
Honestly - I like the Mokapot my dad uses it religiously - but reading this comment thread makes it sounds like Mokapot is getting its lunch eaten by more wasteful products (and it is) but I wager it is that they aren't in the same product category even though they are all under the coffee umbrella. Also its in a highly differentiated/competitive marketplace over the last 15 years where before that (in its glory days) there wasn't much competition to stack up against.
However the reason it is getting its lunch eaten is that people prioritize convenience and the Mokapot is a different product category although under the coffee vertical. A Mokapot takes bit of education and a bit of time in the morning to dial it in. The general coffee consumption market is not interested / technically savy to do this. It's losing because its a more complicated and higher quality product --> different consumers. I don't think those junky nespresso buyers would even be in the mokapot category to begin with. Its similar to how lyft/uber brought more people into riding cabs (also took cab market share).
However the reason it is getting its lunch eaten is that people prioritize convenience and the Mokapot is a different product category although under the coffee vertical. A Mokapot takes bit of education and a bit of time in the morning to dial it in. The general coffee consumption market is not interested / technically savy to do this. It's losing because its a more complicated and higher quality product --> different consumers. I don't think those junky nespresso buyers would even be in the mokapot category to begin with. Its similar to how lyft/uber brought more people into riding cabs (also took cab market share).
> a more complicated and higher quality product [...] those junky nespresso buyers
It was inevitable that a thread on coffee would attract the snobbery.
I was literally raised with moka and coffee from Italian bars, and Nespresso is absolutely fine. For me, like for loads of other Italian migrants in "barbaric" Northern lands (where "baristas" couldn't make a decent cup to save their lives), it has been an absolute lifesaver. I know plenty of Italian foodies with absolutely no qualms about it. You can criticize the environmental impact (sure), the cost (eh), the commercial model (you in SaaS too?), the tax-dodging, whatever. But when it comes to quality, it's really just the worst hipster snobbery that stops people from accepting that it's actually pretty good. The machines can last for ages with minimal maintenance, and the coffee is good and consistent with zero effort. The rest is just audiophile-level bullcrap.
It was inevitable that a thread on coffee would attract the snobbery.
I was literally raised with moka and coffee from Italian bars, and Nespresso is absolutely fine. For me, like for loads of other Italian migrants in "barbaric" Northern lands (where "baristas" couldn't make a decent cup to save their lives), it has been an absolute lifesaver. I know plenty of Italian foodies with absolutely no qualms about it. You can criticize the environmental impact (sure), the cost (eh), the commercial model (you in SaaS too?), the tax-dodging, whatever. But when it comes to quality, it's really just the worst hipster snobbery that stops people from accepting that it's actually pretty good. The machines can last for ages with minimal maintenance, and the coffee is good and consistent with zero effort. The rest is just audiophile-level bullcrap.
I take issue with everything about nespresso machines. The quality/convenience is not worth the disgusting level of waste.
Is the coffee fine? Yes its fine, its not great but man are those machines so incredibly wasteful.
Is the coffee fine? Yes its fine, its not great but man are those machines so incredibly wasteful.
nepresso offers to take back your spent aluminum capsules and recycles them
harvesting and roasting the beans is also incredibly resource intensive, but we do it because we consider it valuable
harvesting and roasting the beans is also incredibly resource intensive, but we do it because we consider it valuable
I don't find it complicated to use. Like any other stove top item, you can't leave it on to burn. I can see how this might be difficult for some in a morning rush.
When I need a break from the computer, I find the ritual relaxing.
Can't see myself buying a Nestle contraption.
When I need a break from the computer, I find the ritual relaxing.
Can't see myself buying a Nestle contraption.
Recently moved from the US to Europe, and (re)discovered the moka pot, after many years of having one and never used (received as a gift, and stored in my kitchen more as a curiosity, then left behind me, when moving). Acquiring one, once in Europe, and starting using it (alongside my more commonly used French Press), I discovered new ways to bring up flavour in coffee. I doubt this is a dying breed ...
I always wondered why they didn't combine a Moka pot with an electric kettle. It would work much faster, would be safer (can turn off after time if you forget water), and can max the temperature at 80 degrees Celsius so you don't get bitter coffee. Also, it could have different sizes for the coffee grind for when you have company over.
Bialetti does seem to make one https://www.bialetti.com/us_en/coffee-makers/moka/moka-elett...
Came here to comment the same - but it looks like they exist! https://www.thedrinksmaker.com/best-electric-moka-pot/
As an Italian living abroad I can tell you that one or two old Moka always travel with you. There's always space for a Moka in your luggage.
My experience is also that the best coffee comes from the old beaten up and a bit burned Moka owned by your old grandma.
> Cuban coffee in a Cuban or Cuban-American home is almost always made with a moka pot; the Cuban concoction cafecito is made by quickly whipping the first few drops of moka pot coffee with sugar, creating a paste that both flavors the coffee and simulates a classic espresso foam.
We make cafecitos with a Bialetti moka pot in my house. It took quite a few tries to get it right, the sugar paste especially, but they're a real treat now that we have it figured out.
Here's our recipe and a few notes: https://snippi.com/s/jrn4ig3 Note that we're using brown sugar instead of table sugar. This is simply a preference.
Enjoy!
We make cafecitos with a Bialetti moka pot in my house. It took quite a few tries to get it right, the sugar paste especially, but they're a real treat now that we have it figured out.
Here's our recipe and a few notes: https://snippi.com/s/jrn4ig3 Note that we're using brown sugar instead of table sugar. This is simply a preference.
Enjoy!
To add to the above, if you have a Nespresso machine at home then try the Scuro double espresso + a hefty amount of your sweetener of choice (I like maple syrup). It produces a very similar cup to the cafecito recipe in my last comment.
If I'm staying in an Airbnb and want to be able to make something like an espresso, are these any good? I'm not really a fan of plunger coffee, which seems like the other travel-friendly non-instant alternative?
Or... buy an Aeropress instead?
Or... buy an Aeropress instead?
With good coffee, (preferably freshly ground, but you do what you have to) and a bit of technique, yeah, they can make quite good coffee. It's stronger than pour over or french press, but still probably only a third to a half as strong as espresso.
I've never had an aeropress so it's hard for me to compare quality etc., but when I've had coffee with friends who use them, the aeropress does seem bit more cumbersome and messy than the mokka pot.
I've never had an aeropress so it's hard for me to compare quality etc., but when I've had coffee with friends who use them, the aeropress does seem bit more cumbersome and messy than the mokka pot.
With aeropress, the brewing is more manual (you control how hot is the water, how long you keep it brewing, etc), which has its pros and cons. So you can make really good coffee, or really bad coffee.
But one thing where aeropress shines is cleaning. I'd use my moka pot more often, purely for consistency without effort, if it was as easy to clean as aeropress.
But one thing where aeropress shines is cleaning. I'd use my moka pot more often, purely for consistency without effort, if it was as easy to clean as aeropress.
For me, aeropress is much less cumbersome than mokka pot and much easier to clean. Both make good coffee, but since I've found one specific coffee brand that I like (one of the cheaper ones), no other coffee tastes as good for me, but I'll drink anything that's available.
However for people who already like aeropress, they are kind of popular to being for camping/hiking. But sharing coffee with more than one person takes time.
Whenever I go camping I always take a small moka pot with me. If you use good quality coffee then it never fails to deliver a very decent cup. It's not going to be equal to a coffee shop espresso, but it gets you 80% there. And you may be able to pick one up for 20 bucks. The only part that needs replacing every now and then is the rubber ring that seals the pot when you screw it together. Other than that they're virtually indestructible. At home I have the large De'Longhi, but if that can't be used there is always a moka pot on standby.
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Dirty secret about coffee brewing... it's 90% the quality of the beans. If you use stale Starbucks beans, you will never have good coffee. If you use ones from a local roaster that are fresh, and grind them at brew time, you'll have amazing coffee even if you just throw the grounds in a pot (cowboy coffee, Turkish coffee, or Ethiopian brewing are all valid methods that are unfiltered). Before you go crazy testing Aeropress vs. v60 vs. chemex... Just try whatever brewing method you use with beans from a local roaster.
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If I use Starbucks beans I get something that tastes like coffee. If I use fancy beans from coffee hipsters I get something that tastes like manure. Not a fan.
It depends on your tastes and expectations.
I've had some really high end coffees that I thought tasted like garbage. Then again I wasn't prepared for what they were going to taste like. For instance, when I tried light roasts for the first time, I thought they were absolute trash. I only drank dark roasts though and based my expectations on that. I've since warmed up to them and now prefer a medium roast for my daily drink.
Some people have different tastes. Some folks really like the burnt flavors of Starbucks and associate it with coffee, so everything else tastes terrible. That's especially true if you don't drink coffee black and require a certain flavor after adding heaps of cream and sugar. Other people are more sensitive to bitterness or acidity and need something to cater to their tastes.
Personally I just stick with Peet's beans because I find them to be cheap and convenient and not all that bad. I still occasionally get a bag of terrible coffee from them, but it's terrible in the sense that I just can't get a cup of coffee that I like after adjusting all the parameters(temp, time, dilution(yeah, I use an aeropress), etc).
Tastes are a subjective thing. I've had $400 Michelin dinners that tasted like shit, and $8 burritos that were some of the best things I've ever put in my mouth. People like to get all judgmental about it but really you just have to know yourself and go with it.
I've had some really high end coffees that I thought tasted like garbage. Then again I wasn't prepared for what they were going to taste like. For instance, when I tried light roasts for the first time, I thought they were absolute trash. I only drank dark roasts though and based my expectations on that. I've since warmed up to them and now prefer a medium roast for my daily drink.
Some people have different tastes. Some folks really like the burnt flavors of Starbucks and associate it with coffee, so everything else tastes terrible. That's especially true if you don't drink coffee black and require a certain flavor after adding heaps of cream and sugar. Other people are more sensitive to bitterness or acidity and need something to cater to their tastes.
Personally I just stick with Peet's beans because I find them to be cheap and convenient and not all that bad. I still occasionally get a bag of terrible coffee from them, but it's terrible in the sense that I just can't get a cup of coffee that I like after adjusting all the parameters(temp, time, dilution(yeah, I use an aeropress), etc).
Tastes are a subjective thing. I've had $400 Michelin dinners that tasted like shit, and $8 burritos that were some of the best things I've ever put in my mouth. People like to get all judgmental about it but really you just have to know yourself and go with it.
Were those beans stale?
Then something isn't right.
You're probably buying lighter roasts, which are in vogue but are more difficult to brew.
You're probably buying lighter roasts, which are in vogue but are more difficult to brew.
They must be spectacularly difficult to brew, because they taste just as bad when I have them at coffee shops. I basically can't order coffee in most places now because these flavours have taken over. I'd love to be able to live vicariously through someone else's palate and understand the appeal.
Real coffee does taste "bad" if you're not used to it. What you're enjoying is bland coffee. If that's enough for you, there's no imperative to go for the better stuff.
There's no reason to claim that the better stuff is not better, that's just pointless anti-elitism. As a kid, I certainly enjoyed a McDonalds burger over a rare tenderloin. The tenderloin obviously was better though.
There's no reason to claim that the better stuff is not better, that's just pointless anti-elitism. As a kid, I certainly enjoyed a McDonalds burger over a rare tenderloin. The tenderloin obviously was better though.
I've been trying for several years! I have worked hard to acquire many acquired tastes, I don't want to have to flash my snob card here. But this taste just completely eludes me. My only hope is that other comments elsethread are right, and my town in Yorkshire maybe isn't home to the most talented or knowledgeable baristas and roasters, and they genuinely are serving garbage. In the meantime, when I need a coffee, I will have a cup of coffee and not a mouthful of the water at the bottom of my fridge's vegetable drawer.
I'll be honest, if they're using an automatic coffee maker (one where the puck is ground and processed internally), this very well could be the case. Also keep in mind that flavor profiles are generally targeted for espresso (either a double shot of something slightly watered down).
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Using the the same methods and amounts for stale coffee (whole beans or ground) and fresh recently roasted beans will not work.
You need to adjust it for each new roast, even when the bean is from the same origin as the previous batch you used. Fluctuations will be smaller though.
Also be aware that some people do not enjoy some roast levels.
I for one used to think I loved dark French roasts in my early twenties. Now I am more for the lighter floral notes in my filters and the earthier nutty notes in my espresso. But nothing ever as dark as French roast.
Rules of thumb;
* buy fresh whole bean
* that are all from the same source
* not a robusta
* that has its roast date on the packaging
* store in airtight container away from sunlight
* do not freeze the beans
* and use it within 3-4 weeks of that date (earlier for espresso)
* enjoy the coffee you like and do not let anyone else tell you otherwise. But perhaps, experiment with your tastes.
You need to adjust it for each new roast, even when the bean is from the same origin as the previous batch you used. Fluctuations will be smaller though.
Also be aware that some people do not enjoy some roast levels.
I for one used to think I loved dark French roasts in my early twenties. Now I am more for the lighter floral notes in my filters and the earthier nutty notes in my espresso. But nothing ever as dark as French roast.
Rules of thumb;
* buy fresh whole bean
* that are all from the same source
* not a robusta
* that has its roast date on the packaging
* store in airtight container away from sunlight
* do not freeze the beans
* and use it within 3-4 weeks of that date (earlier for espresso)
* enjoy the coffee you like and do not let anyone else tell you otherwise. But perhaps, experiment with your tastes.
I'll be honest, I have this problem in most cafes the last few years as well, it's not just at home. It just all tastes disgustingly sour to me (and again, horrible hints of compost and manure). I assume I just don't like what modern coffee drinkers like, but I cannot imagine ever acquiring a taste for it however hard I try.
The advice I always had from local roasters is to store the beans in a fridge.
I have the luxury to have a stepless grinder, and I can observe the difference when I have to adjust the grain size between beans that are freshly roasted, stored in fridge and stored at room temperature.
At fridge temperatures, beans stay wet and oily much longer.
I have the luxury to have a stepless grinder, and I can observe the difference when I have to adjust the grain size between beans that are freshly roasted, stored in fridge and stored at room temperature.
At fridge temperatures, beans stay wet and oily much longer.
Fridge might be alright. I haven't tried.
But surprisingly many believe that freezing the beans make for a good cup for longer.
Which is not going to be the case when the bean has not thawed and is so brittle it gives an uneven grind (and thus uneven extraction).
Better, if possible, is to buy smaller amounts more frequently and use them all up before getting more.
It isn't like you get high quality whole bean in bulk anyway.
But surprisingly many believe that freezing the beans make for a good cup for longer.
Which is not going to be the case when the bean has not thawed and is so brittle it gives an uneven grind (and thus uneven extraction).
Better, if possible, is to buy smaller amounts more frequently and use them all up before getting more.
It isn't like you get high quality whole bean in bulk anyway.
I'm the same way. I find that I can't even enjoy drinking the coffee at those shops. It's not a manure flavor, but there's definitely an acidity and strong flavor that I do not enjoy.
And, ftr, I am tired of Starbucks coffees too. It's hard to find an in between.
And, ftr, I am tired of Starbucks coffees too. It's hard to find an in between.
I mean, I don't know what manure tastes like obviously, but it's not a flavour I like being in my mouth. I've tried, I would love to be able to partake of this culture, but I just can't physically force 'third wave' coffee down my throat.
Try a South Indian coffee filter?
I love the aeropress for ease of use, would definitely recommend.
I've only used a moka pot a few times (one provided at an airBnB actually), and I'm interested in getting one, but haven't yet.
I think there's less temperature control with a Moka pot, and I'd say cleanup is more effort than a simple aeropress puck.
I think there's less temperature control with a Moka pot, and I'd say cleanup is more effort than a simple aeropress puck.
I love my aeropress. Light weight. Super easy to clean by just giving it a rinse. And most importantly, makes a very good clean cup of coffee no matter what.
I like the moka as well. But it's harder to master. It will play different on different stoves. The original is in aluminum, so won't work on induction. But when you get the nack it will make you steaming darkness.
I like the moka as well. But it's harder to master. It will play different on different stoves. The original is in aluminum, so won't work on induction. But when you get the nack it will make you steaming darkness.
I'll swear by the Aeropress esp for travel since it's plastic and lightweight. You can get the metal filters to be eco & travel friendly.
In my personal order of importance for good coffee:
1. Beans
2. Water Temp
3. Method
4. Grind
A distant 5 is process and by process I mean exact steps, timing etc. If you follow the world champion steps[0], even loosely, it will significantly up your coffee game. While you don't need a fancy grinder at all, I def covet the EK43.
Also much love for a V60 for travel as well.
[0] https://aeropress.com/pages/wac-recipes
In my personal order of importance for good coffee:
1. Beans
2. Water Temp
3. Method
4. Grind
A distant 5 is process and by process I mean exact steps, timing etc. If you follow the world champion steps[0], even loosely, it will significantly up your coffee game. While you don't need a fancy grinder at all, I def covet the EK43.
Also much love for a V60 for travel as well.
[0] https://aeropress.com/pages/wac-recipes
Yeah for home use, futzing with the stove and rubber gasketed contraptions seems pointless. Pourover works well.
I used to use aeropress but the rubber plunger degrades and builds up grime, I also find pourover more fun to use.
Having a source of hot water ready to go makes it even easier.
I used to use aeropress but the rubber plunger degrades and builds up grime, I also find pourover more fun to use.
Having a source of hot water ready to go makes it even easier.
A good electric kettle with temp control is a must to get past the "futzing"
There's a great video with coffee expert James Hoffmann on making coffee in a moka pot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpyBYuu-wJI
However a moka pot generally doesn't make espresso as much as strong coffee. If you want something that makes espresso, check out the 9bar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcZMGx15QBU
Of course you'll want a good hand grinder for either, but especially espresso. You can't get anything close to espresso with pre-ground or a cheap grinder.
However a moka pot generally doesn't make espresso as much as strong coffee. If you want something that makes espresso, check out the 9bar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcZMGx15QBU
Of course you'll want a good hand grinder for either, but especially espresso. You can't get anything close to espresso with pre-ground or a cheap grinder.
There are mobile solutions for Espressos.
- Presses, like Picopresso, where you need to use your own muscles to create the espresso. If you got any pains in your hands or wrists there are a no go.
- Stovepots like Moka pots, but who create enough pressure, like 9Barista, expensive, needs to cool down between making shots
- Aeropress alikes, like Cafflano Kompresso, who are cheaper and lighter than the rest, but it depends on your control how the resulting espresso tastes.
Aeropress is for coffee. If coffee is good enough I recommend Espro P1 or P0, they filter is its money worth and they allow for making a mug of coffee on the go and keep it warm. I was able to make multiple on the go with just a small box of ground coffee and an insulation can with hot water. Personally I got a P1, and the lid can be hard to open, without also screwing open the middle part, but one gets used to it.
- Presses, like Picopresso, where you need to use your own muscles to create the espresso. If you got any pains in your hands or wrists there are a no go.
- Stovepots like Moka pots, but who create enough pressure, like 9Barista, expensive, needs to cool down between making shots
- Aeropress alikes, like Cafflano Kompresso, who are cheaper and lighter than the rest, but it depends on your control how the resulting espresso tastes.
Aeropress is for coffee. If coffee is good enough I recommend Espro P1 or P0, they filter is its money worth and they allow for making a mug of coffee on the go and keep it warm. I was able to make multiple on the go with just a small box of ground coffee and an insulation can with hot water. Personally I got a P1, and the lid can be hard to open, without also screwing open the middle part, but one gets used to it.
It depends on whether you're ok with something that resembles espresso, or if you actually want espresso.
Espresso is nothing more than hot water pushed through coffee grounds at 7-9+ PSI or pressure. There are several travel brewers, such as the Flair NEO, that aren't particularly expensive and will brew perfectly fine espresso.
The issue, though, is that the main determinant for espresso isn't how you make it, but the quality and grind of the coffee bean. Are you willing to purchase a burr grinder and take it with you on vacation? If yes, and if you want actual espresso, then this is the best route to go.
From experience, a Moka pot will give you something slightly (but only slightly) closer to espresso than a french press. However, I've consistently gotten much better results with a french press. As far as going with an Aeropress over a french press, the former should give a cleaner result, but my best guess not ever having used one is that the final result will take about the same, without some of the finer coffee grounds getting into the cup (which can mostly be prevented on a french press if you do it right).
Espresso is nothing more than hot water pushed through coffee grounds at 7-9+ PSI or pressure. There are several travel brewers, such as the Flair NEO, that aren't particularly expensive and will brew perfectly fine espresso.
The issue, though, is that the main determinant for espresso isn't how you make it, but the quality and grind of the coffee bean. Are you willing to purchase a burr grinder and take it with you on vacation? If yes, and if you want actual espresso, then this is the best route to go.
From experience, a Moka pot will give you something slightly (but only slightly) closer to espresso than a french press. However, I've consistently gotten much better results with a french press. As far as going with an Aeropress over a french press, the former should give a cleaner result, but my best guess not ever having used one is that the final result will take about the same, without some of the finer coffee grounds getting into the cup (which can mostly be prevented on a french press if you do it right).
> 7-9+ PSI
I think there's a small typo there, 9 bar would be more regular for espresso.
I agree otherwise. I treat moka or aeropress coffee as its own thing; it's not espresso and that's OK.
I see a lot of people talk about "grind" as important.
Really it's just a way of varying pressure and to keep it roughly in that 9 bar zone.
The only magic in a good bur grinder is its consistency. You can look at what you're getting out and bump the pressure up or down slightly compared to your last shot.
So as the beans dry out with age, you can increase the extraction so you don't get a flat, sour shot with no crema. If you put in a new bag of beans you can make the grind courser so that pressure is reduced and you` don't over extract.
I love a morning espresso but I'm less keen on all the connoisseurship around it.
I think there's a small typo there, 9 bar would be more regular for espresso.
I agree otherwise. I treat moka or aeropress coffee as its own thing; it's not espresso and that's OK.
I see a lot of people talk about "grind" as important.
Really it's just a way of varying pressure and to keep it roughly in that 9 bar zone.
The only magic in a good bur grinder is its consistency. You can look at what you're getting out and bump the pressure up or down slightly compared to your last shot.
So as the beans dry out with age, you can increase the extraction so you don't get a flat, sour shot with no crema. If you put in a new bag of beans you can make the grind courser so that pressure is reduced and you` don't over extract.
I love a morning espresso but I'm less keen on all the connoisseurship around it.
The only magic in a good bur grinder is its consistency. You can look at what you're getting out and bump the pressure up or down slightly compared to your last shot.
It's not just consistency. It's grind size distribution. The cost of a high end burr grinder is crazy and I don't understand what's going on but you can do simple comparative tests.
I have a 2 different burr sets for my grinder with different cutter geometries and the mechanical properties of the grinds and the puck are different. Never mind the taste. The way the water pours through the puck and what's happening inside the basket as you pull the shot is different. You can easily tell by the amount of channeling I get and the integrity of the puck after the shot.
The espresso also tastes different BTW.
I've also done blind taste testing with my grinder pitted against 3 other grinders. Having only tasted the coffee from 1 of these, I matched the coffee to the grinders only based on the theoretical properties of the burr sets.
It's not just consistency. It's grind size distribution. The cost of a high end burr grinder is crazy and I don't understand what's going on but you can do simple comparative tests.
I have a 2 different burr sets for my grinder with different cutter geometries and the mechanical properties of the grinds and the puck are different. Never mind the taste. The way the water pours through the puck and what's happening inside the basket as you pull the shot is different. You can easily tell by the amount of channeling I get and the integrity of the puck after the shot.
The espresso also tastes different BTW.
I've also done blind taste testing with my grinder pitted against 3 other grinders. Having only tasted the coffee from 1 of these, I matched the coffee to the grinders only based on the theoretical properties of the burr sets.
> The cost of a high end burr grinder is crazy and I don't understand what's going on but you can do simple comparative tests.
Some Taiwanese folks crowdsourced a bunch of manual grinders in this forum thread to measure and compare grind size distribution [1].
It's usually my go-to thread whenever someone asks me for grinder recommendations, and care mostly about the end result.
[1] (link in Chinese) https://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=640&t=5747652
Some Taiwanese folks crowdsourced a bunch of manual grinders in this forum thread to measure and compare grind size distribution [1].
It's usually my go-to thread whenever someone asks me for grinder recommendations, and care mostly about the end result.
[1] (link in Chinese) https://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=640&t=5747652
Ah well that all sounds beyond me mate.
I'm a simple soul, if I can't measure it really easily I don't worry about it.
It's not like any two beans are the same and I'm tamping them by hand anyway.
Worrying about the shape of the blades in the grinder is like worrying about the type of power cable on your hifi amp. It's too much connoisseurship for me personally but more power to you if that's your bag.
I'm a simple soul, if I can't measure it really easily I don't worry about it.
It's not like any two beans are the same and I'm tamping them by hand anyway.
Worrying about the shape of the blades in the grinder is like worrying about the type of power cable on your hifi amp. It's too much connoisseurship for me personally but more power to you if that's your bag.
Worrying about the shape of the blades in the grinder is like worrying about the type of power cable on your hifi amp.
You like what you like.
I'm just saying that your dismissal of the effects of your grinder are very wrong. And the differences are easy see and measure.
You like what you like.
I'm just saying that your dismissal of the effects of your grinder are very wrong. And the differences are easy see and measure.
A good burr grinder is all about consistent grind size and is very easy to observe.
Spread a small amount of ground coffee out on a piece of paper. Observe the varying sizes and shapes within the grounds. Better grinders produce more even grinds which produce more even extraction during brewing.
It’s an exceedingly simple concept. As an extreme example try and brew an espresso using a simple blade style ‘grinder’. It will be impossible. The refinement of a good grinder is simply optimizing along this axis.
Spread a small amount of ground coffee out on a piece of paper. Observe the varying sizes and shapes within the grounds. Better grinders produce more even grinds which produce more even extraction during brewing.
It’s an exceedingly simple concept. As an extreme example try and brew an espresso using a simple blade style ‘grinder’. It will be impossible. The refinement of a good grinder is simply optimizing along this axis.
> I think there's a small typo there, 9 bar would be more regular for espresso.
Yep, my mistake : )
Yep, my mistake : )
Prefer aeropress over moka pot - quicker and easier to clean, requires less attention, better consistency, and prefer the fresher taste of aeropress. Only need a kettle instead of stove so generally quicker (US: whats a kettle).
interesting - is that a french press but with a smaller pored filter so you need more force and get more creamy consistency?
having said that the design is remarkably ugly. almost like some medical device - or maybe even like a bathmate? :D
having said that the design is remarkably ugly. almost like some medical device - or maybe even like a bathmate? :D
Heh, yeah, the design is like the cylinder version of a cuisinart top. But it works quite well for small amounts of coffee, and is very portable. Compared to a french press, the filter is much finer, and the rubber end seals way better.
Unfortunately, because the volume is small, I would have to use it multiple times, which was such a pain, I eventually stopped using it in favor of a V60 pourover.
Unfortunately, because the volume is small, I would have to use it multiple times, which was such a pain, I eventually stopped using it in favor of a V60 pourover.
It’s designed by the maker of the aerobie frisbee
Lots of folks recommending the Aeropress here for travel - I strongly agree.
I'd also add, you can get a ceramic bur grinder called the "Porlex mini hand grider" [0] which fits inside the Aeropress' cylinder.
It's a super compact way to travel with a press and a grinder!
[0] https://www.amazon.com/Porlex-Mini-Stainless-Coffee-Grinder/...
I'd also add, you can get a ceramic bur grinder called the "Porlex mini hand grider" [0] which fits inside the Aeropress' cylinder.
It's a super compact way to travel with a press and a grinder!
[0] https://www.amazon.com/Porlex-Mini-Stainless-Coffee-Grinder/...
The Porlex is really terrible. They aren't that cheap anymore and are still ceramic. If you want to go the cheap and compact route, get the Rhinowares.
Otherwise spend a bit more money and get the 1Zpresso Q2. I think this is the cheapest grinder with 34mm stainless steel burrs you can get that fits inside the Aeropress plunger.
You'll thank yourself later for getting the stainless steel burrs.
Otherwise spend a bit more money and get the 1Zpresso Q2. I think this is the cheapest grinder with 34mm stainless steel burrs you can get that fits inside the Aeropress plunger.
You'll thank yourself later for getting the stainless steel burrs.
I've had the complete opposite experience.
Not that I want to pick a fight, but I'm sharing this more for other readers' reference.
I've had my Porlex for a little over 5 years now, use it around twice daily, and have had zero issues.
A quick Google search of ceramic vs steel burs also seems to indicate the ceramic offers better longevity.
Why else do you say Porlex is terrible, aside from being ceramic?
Its build quality is excellent. Well worth the price.
Not that I want to pick a fight, but I'm sharing this more for other readers' reference.
I've had my Porlex for a little over 5 years now, use it around twice daily, and have had zero issues.
A quick Google search of ceramic vs steel burs also seems to indicate the ceramic offers better longevity.
Why else do you say Porlex is terrible, aside from being ceramic?
Its build quality is excellent. Well worth the price.
The Porlex is expensive for what you get. It used to be cheaper. The Rhinowares grinder is very similar and still cheap.
Stainless steel 34mm burrs also cut significantly faster and more consistently in a similarly sized grinder. This is the main reason you want stainless steel.
I wouldn't worry about longevity since we're talking about a decade or more for whatever type you chose. But yes, ceramic will last longer.
In fact if you don't want the grinder to fit in the plunger of an aeropress, you can get Taiwanese grinders with stainless steel burrs, well stabilised shafts, ball bearings, a milled Al body for less than the Porlex mini and only slightly more than a Rhinowares.
Stainless steel 34mm burrs also cut significantly faster and more consistently in a similarly sized grinder. This is the main reason you want stainless steel.
I wouldn't worry about longevity since we're talking about a decade or more for whatever type you chose. But yes, ceramic will last longer.
In fact if you don't want the grinder to fit in the plunger of an aeropress, you can get Taiwanese grinders with stainless steel burrs, well stabilised shafts, ball bearings, a milled Al body for less than the Porlex mini and only slightly more than a Rhinowares.
> A quick Google search of ceramic vs steel burs also seems to indicate the ceramic offers better longevity.
I have a theory that people who start with a Hario Skerton or its clones (all of which have ceramic burrs) tend to be turned off manual grinding because of how bad the grinding experience is.
Steel burrs supposedly cut better and faster.
Admittedly, I've tried my friend's Porlex Tall, and it wasn't unpleasant to use.
I have a theory that people who start with a Hario Skerton or its clones (all of which have ceramic burrs) tend to be turned off manual grinding because of how bad the grinding experience is.
Steel burrs supposedly cut better and faster.
Admittedly, I've tried my friend's Porlex Tall, and it wasn't unpleasant to use.
Those Moka coffee pots are the next best thing to a full blown Barista grade Espresso maker. And thus the overall best option cost wise, you can get the classic Bialettis, 4-6 cups, for around 30 bucks. For the difference to a Barista machine you can get a lot of top grade coffee to brew.
We use only those, in all sizes. And being really portable you can take them everywhere. Camping, vacation,... you name it. They only thing you struggle to get, even with the dedicated ones marketed as such, is the crema a barista machine will produce.
We use only those, in all sizes. And being really portable you can take them everywhere. Camping, vacation,... you name it. They only thing you struggle to get, even with the dedicated ones marketed as such, is the crema a barista machine will produce.
I love my Bialettis (own 3 of different sizes) as well as my espresso machine.
A moka pot will never be able to give coffee anywhere close to propper espresso.
That's not me being subjective. The moka can not create the pressure needed to extract the oils in the same way as a propper espresso machine. Not to mention that the water to oil ratio is way off compared to an espresso. And a fine enough grind level would simply fall through into the water tank.
A moka pot is one device on the coffee spectrum. It doesnt need to compete or be like any other equipment. It is it's own thing.
A moka pot will never be able to give coffee anywhere close to propper espresso.
That's not me being subjective. The moka can not create the pressure needed to extract the oils in the same way as a propper espresso machine. Not to mention that the water to oil ratio is way off compared to an espresso. And a fine enough grind level would simply fall through into the water tank.
A moka pot is one device on the coffee spectrum. It doesnt need to compete or be like any other equipment. It is it's own thing.
No, they are so inconsistent in my experience. There had been times in which the coffee tasted so good it would beat any premium cafe. But on repeating the same with same beans, same grind setting, same water and same setting it then taste like rubber. I suspect it is due to random channeling pattern in coffee. If the water passes more through the area in which fine particles are there, it tastes bitter.
I've been pretty happy with my Nanopresso for that purpose:
https://www.wacaco.com/pages/nanopresso
Produces a consistent cup of espresso with crema and all. You can also buy the "barista kit" to pull double shots.
https://www.wacaco.com/pages/nanopresso
Produces a consistent cup of espresso with crema and all. You can also buy the "barista kit" to pull double shots.
Moka pots make great coffee but I found it really hard to get the brewing right - the most important factor was the grind size. If I change it even slightly, I get much worse results and unlike Aeropress there are fewer other variables to adjust. So to answer your question I would say yes if you're also travelling with your own grinder.
I religiously set a timer when I start my Bialetti. But like most things done religiously, you will eventually forget. First it produced the coffee. Then the heat rose up to the upper level, boiled the coffee, and sprayed it all out the spout, onto the stove and the wall behind it. Also, it melted the rubber gasket. I was alerted to the smell of burning coffee and rubber.
Luckily, I got everything cleaned up, and made a new gasket from bike innertube rubber, which worked OK. Then I discovered that I could buy a new gasket. One sign of a classic product is when you can buy spare parts for it.
Luckily, I got everything cleaned up, and made a new gasket from bike innertube rubber, which worked OK. Then I discovered that I could buy a new gasket. One sign of a classic product is when you can buy spare parts for it.
If you're boiling the coffee (which is what the moka pot does), you're burning the coffee. I love moka pot brews, but as least be honest: you're burning it!
You're not. Not if you heat your water before putting in the grounds. Practically speaking, once you heat your water, it's a matter of seconds to get the coffee rolling.
You should try it.
You should try it.
Interesting, but I think it's exactly opposite - I would think using water at 4C (the densest water gets) would give you the lowest brew temperature.
With water at 4C, puts the most water inside the pressure chamber, leading to the greatest pressure change for a given delta(T). Instead, if the water is just below boiling, the water going through the grinds must be higher than 100 C (since the pressure raises the boiling point).
It'll brew faster, and there is an argument to be made that quicker brews lead to less burning. But the T would be highest.
With water at 4C, puts the most water inside the pressure chamber, leading to the greatest pressure change for a given delta(T). Instead, if the water is just below boiling, the water going through the grinds must be higher than 100 C (since the pressure raises the boiling point).
It'll brew faster, and there is an argument to be made that quicker brews lead to less burning. But the T would be highest.
If you start with cold water the increasing vapor pressure on the way to boiling will force some of the water through the coffee at varying temperatures, but past that it will reach steady state and end up pushing boiling water. Not sure how much of a difference there is in getting to that point. I don't think pressure matters much since the Bialetti is not a high pressure vessel (maybe 1.5atm probably less if beans are really coarse).
Boiling less quickly (i.e. using lower heat) might put the coffee in contact with boiling water for longer. So it would seem high heat and cold water would be the way to go if you want to minimize the temperature-time product of the beans-to-water contact.
Boiling less quickly (i.e. using lower heat) might put the coffee in contact with boiling water for longer. So it would seem high heat and cold water would be the way to go if you want to minimize the temperature-time product of the beans-to-water contact.
Now I want to make two batches of coffee and measure the resultant coffee's temperature.
The Moka pot works by vapour pressure, not boiling per se.
In the three-chamber design, there's a tight seal between the lower chamber (filled with water), and the cup (filled with grounds), connected by the siphon pipe.
As the water is heated, even before it reaches boiling point, it's being forced up through the grounds. The last dregs of water are steam-hot, but earlier is not. And the liquid water keeps the temperature of the entire pot (including coffee) at or below the boiling point.
The pressure and heat should result in a strong, rich, but not bitter, brew.
Leaving the pot on the stove after it begins to "spit" (as steam sputters up the stempipe) will burn the coffee (and seals and pot). So Don't Do That.
In the three-chamber design, there's a tight seal between the lower chamber (filled with water), and the cup (filled with grounds), connected by the siphon pipe.
As the water is heated, even before it reaches boiling point, it's being forced up through the grounds. The last dregs of water are steam-hot, but earlier is not. And the liquid water keeps the temperature of the entire pot (including coffee) at or below the boiling point.
The pressure and heat should result in a strong, rich, but not bitter, brew.
Leaving the pot on the stove after it begins to "spit" (as steam sputters up the stempipe) will burn the coffee (and seals and pot). So Don't Do That.
Italy could have been one country that introduced coffee to Europe, but let's not forget that the first Austrian Kaffeehaus opened in the 17th century as well (using coffee stashes obtained after the 2nd Turkish siege in 1680).
What truly killed Bialetti Coffee Pots is the sharp decline of gas stoves in Europe. Electric stoves heat up much slower and turn coffee preparation in pots into a lengthy procedure.
What truly killed Bialetti Coffee Pots is the sharp decline of gas stoves in Europe. Electric stoves heat up much slower and turn coffee preparation in pots into a lengthy procedure.
BTW, talking of coffee, if you haven’t tried roasting your own coffee, you’re missing something.
I’m not a coffee snob and can’t tell difference between regions and so on. But coffee fresh roasted, using an air popcorn maker in my case, tastes amazingly better than anything else.
I just get green coffee samplers since I don’t care about one region vs another, just fresh roast, wait a day or two, fresh ground gives great results.
I’m not a coffee snob and can’t tell difference between regions and so on. But coffee fresh roasted, using an air popcorn maker in my case, tastes amazingly better than anything else.
I just get green coffee samplers since I don’t care about one region vs another, just fresh roast, wait a day or two, fresh ground gives great results.
> As of 2016, the New York Times notes that over 90 percent of Italian homes had one.
It would be more correct to say that 90% of italian homes have at least one... We for example have three: one is the one we're phasing out (three cups), the new one (four cups) and we have a snoopy-themed moka that I don't really want to put in contact with fire.
It would be more correct to say that 90% of italian homes have at least one... We for example have three: one is the one we're phasing out (three cups), the new one (four cups) and we have a snoopy-themed moka that I don't really want to put in contact with fire.
I had one of these blow up. There was a loud pop and then literally coffee grounds all over the ceiling and cupboards.
How? Was it fake?
You must understand my amazement. To blow up, the Moka must not have had a functioning safety valve (check the side). Furthermore, the grid must have been so crusted up that, in the days (months!) leading up to the fateful event, it would have taken a very long time to brew what would have necessarily been an extremely bitter coffee.
The only was I see this happening is it:
- The Moka is fake and it blew up on its first use (since the grid must not have had the holes pressed into it)
- You weren't aware that the grid is removable and didn't clean it. I also like to push against the safety valve form the inside every now and then.
But if #2 why did you put up with a bitter coffee that would take ages to brew?
You must understand my amazement. To blow up, the Moka must not have had a functioning safety valve (check the side). Furthermore, the grid must have been so crusted up that, in the days (months!) leading up to the fateful event, it would have taken a very long time to brew what would have necessarily been an extremely bitter coffee.
The only was I see this happening is it:
- The Moka is fake and it blew up on its first use (since the grid must not have had the holes pressed into it)
- You weren't aware that the grid is removable and didn't clean it. I also like to push against the safety valve form the inside every now and then.
But if #2 why did you put up with a bitter coffee that would take ages to brew?
My personal experience: if espresso machine is 100 then Wacaco Minipresso would be 93, Moka 53, Airpress 52, anything else <50. This is assuming same beans.
As other people mentioned, beans quality is important. Assuming freshly roasted and ground beans are 100, freshly ground 1-month old roast is 50 and 1 month old grind is 25
As other people mentioned, beans quality is important. Assuming freshly roasted and ground beans are 100, freshly ground 1-month old roast is 50 and 1 month old grind is 25
It's a great device.
For me _personally_ I much prefer my coffee to be "kopi tubruk", though: Pour boiling water over medium-ground coffee.
Might not be for everyone, but that's what's great: There is no one 'correct' way to do it. There are tradeoffs and you choose which tradeoff you want.
For me _personally_ I much prefer my coffee to be "kopi tubruk", though: Pour boiling water over medium-ground coffee.
Might not be for everyone, but that's what's great: There is no one 'correct' way to do it. There are tradeoffs and you choose which tradeoff you want.
ah found a fellow indonesian! tubruk always have a part in my heart! its like frenchpress with super fine grind
I sold my moka pot at a garage sale when I bought my first espresso machine. Which broke. As did the two others I bought after that one. I'm now using an Aeropress, which is another device that coffee snobs look down on. But I'm seriously considering getting a new moka pot.
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The Aeropress is really popular with coffee enthusiasts actually. Most third wave shops I know sell Aeropress coffee as one of the handbrew methods.
My dad always had a moka pot at home.
One day he bought a De Lonhgi Alicia moka pot - that you can plug to a wall socket!
He never went back to "traditional" ones.
I have another Alicia pot.
I like it much more than capsules.
Moka Pot is essential on a sailboat, where all you have is a gas stove and 12V car socket under sail or on the ahchor. Every Italian charter boat has one onboard as a first class equipment alongside chartplotter and compass.
Ok so is a Moka pot for making coffee in the North American sense (drip coffee), or espresso (even if it is not at as high pressure), or something in between? I do pour overs daily and have never used a moka pot.
Something in between :) It's lower pressure than espresso, but it is under a bit of pressure
It's something in between IMO. A moka pot cannot produce the pressures necessary for making traditional espresso, but it does produce a strong, slightly viscous coffee and occasionally some crema. A lovely brew on its own!
I always wonder how is possible to make moka from aluminium that is poisonous?
went to Italy on vacation, bought a Bialetti to take home and have been using it ever since (15y). Tip: If you plan to use an induction stove, please check if the model you plan to buy can work with it.
I used my first Moka whilst I was on family holiday to Tuscany and it produced the best coffee I'd ever tasted. Somehow it tasted creamy despite it just being normal black coffee.
Used to love my moka pot but got rid of it. This post inspired me to get another one.
Any recommendations for fair trade coffee? I usually drink equal exchange, but it's not the best coffee.
Any recommendations for fair trade coffee? I usually drink equal exchange, but it's not the best coffee.
I'm surprised that the article makes no mention of the fact that even the name Moka comes from Mocha -- a historically important port city in Yemen.
Am I the only one that has an IKEA stainless steel moka ?
I have the same one. It's great. Simple, well-made, and makes a good cup. And I prefer stainless given the potential health risks of aluminum.
It does make good coffee, but it makes it harder to restart the process because you have to wait for it to cool down or you cool it down under the tap.
Unfortunately, not for someone like me who would put it on the stove and go read HN, only to be reminded later about it by a smell of burning resin.
I make my morning espresso daily in a Bialetti. Has been since visiting my sis in Italy 5 years ago. Glad to hear they are making a comeback.
We had one in an apartment's kitchen when I was visiting California so they can't be that rare, are they?
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Very long article, from which I was unable to ascertain what was so brilliant about the Moka Pot. Unfortunately, this gizmo no longer provides the most convenient coffee-making method ("pods" seem to be more "convenient"), nor the least expensive in terms of equipment cost (that would be the "pour-over"). I can't see a niche for them today, aside from novelty or nostalgia.
Moka (or its lesser known refinement, Brikka) is still the most convenient to me.
It's small. It's 0 maintenance. It's works during blackouts or on a camping stove. Maybe not as fast as an applicance, but still fast.
Compared to a bulky, single-purpose appliance which gives an aftertaste after a couple of months, yeah it's more convenient.
It's small. It's 0 maintenance. It's works during blackouts or on a camping stove. Maybe not as fast as an applicance, but still fast.
Compared to a bulky, single-purpose appliance which gives an aftertaste after a couple of months, yeah it's more convenient.
I still think a proper espresso machine produces better... espressos, but in my tiny apartment the moka pot is a great alternative. There's certainly a fair bit of technique involved, so you probably won't produce your best coffee on the first go.