‘Blue lights’ flash in sky moments before Morocco earthquake(thesun.co.uk)
thesun.co.uk
‘Blue lights’ flash in sky moments before Morocco earthquake
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/23911027/mystery-blue-lights-morocco-earthquake/
203 comments
Compare to a known transformer explosion in NYC:
<https://yewtu.be/watch?v=nMcFOfouVk4>
Earthquake P waves travel at roughly 10,000 kph (6,700 mph), and will take about 9 seconds to travel 50 km (30 miles), a typical distance to the horizon.
During an earthquake, transformers may be disrupted over a wide region, and will be seen as precursor lights from regions further from the epicenter. Despite that, they're a human and technological phenomenon, not a natural and geological one.
<https://yewtu.be/watch?v=nMcFOfouVk4>
Earthquake P waves travel at roughly 10,000 kph (6,700 mph), and will take about 9 seconds to travel 50 km (30 miles), a typical distance to the horizon.
During an earthquake, transformers may be disrupted over a wide region, and will be seen as precursor lights from regions further from the epicenter. Despite that, they're a human and technological phenomenon, not a natural and geological one.
During the Loma Prieta quake I heard about it on the radio (I was driving) before it arrived .... light from electrical discharges is always going to arrive before the shockwave so the 'before' part is not at all surprising.
The cause of course could easily be from the electricity distribution infrastructure, or from some piezo/etc effect from the earth moving - it's likely not presaging the quake itself
The cause of course could easily be from the electricity distribution infrastructure, or from some piezo/etc effect from the earth moving - it's likely not presaging the quake itself
You bursted very few bubbles. Most people here would have already guessed the “blue lights” were just transformers.
I'm going to be honest... I was slightly concerned with the amount of people who seemed to think it was legit.
It does look rather like the incident in NYC https://youtu.be/OHoQguzMJBQ?t=12
Scrolling with the scrubber makes it extremely obvious
Oh, sure, give us the boring, mundane explanation that makes sense. What's next? Claiming that sprites, and elves (and probably even Steve) aren't real either?
/s
/s
This phenomenon is common enough that it has a Wikipedia entry [1].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake_light
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake_light
Wow, some of the examples on YouTube are quite spectacular. Here's an example that shows the peculiar blue color pretty well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjqxiSxhNCw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjqxiSxhNCw
I think these are just electrical infrastructure shorting out. It's pretty obvious for the ones that occur at ground level on the horizon. The cloud lighting up blue is something obscured at ground level but reflected by the clouds.
Similar effect as "power flashes" from tornadoes; tornado blows on power lines, power lines short out, blue arc is produced, everything is bright blue for miles for a bit.
Similar effect as "power flashes" from tornadoes; tornado blows on power lines, power lines short out, blue arc is produced, everything is bright blue for miles for a bit.
Possible. A few years ago a 33KV line came down onto the interstate near me, very early in the morning as I was heading out onto the road a couple of miles away and over a hill. From my viewpoint it looked like an alien abduction scene. In fact that was my best guess until I crested the hill and started to understand what had happened.
I've never seen a high voltage line come down, but I did see a residential neighborhood distribution line start arcing.
The color and sound were unlike anything I've ever seen or heard.
From memory, something like a blue'd lightning bolt without thunder + the sound of 100 giant hornets shifted down in frequency.
If you've ever seen welding light in person, imagine that intensified a couple orders of magnitude.
The color and sound were unlike anything I've ever seen or heard.
From memory, something like a blue'd lightning bolt without thunder + the sound of 100 giant hornets shifted down in frequency.
If you've ever seen welding light in person, imagine that intensified a couple orders of magnitude.
The wind makes that it probably doesn't come across as as loud as it was, but something like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNaIChPiiww&t=11
Yup! That's missing some of the low frequencies I remember, but captures the mid-high. I guess "incredibly loud sheet of paper tearing" would have been another description.
Sounds like it'd be intense enough to illuminate the base of low clouds at night, which would explain (most of?) what seems to be visible in that video.
Yeah we would see these in Texas during snow storms. That blue green flash is typical for transformers. I took a video many years ago (with a consumer grade camera, which were terrible back then, especially in low light), you can see the flash just after the 1:50 mark
https://youtu.be/UXf2N1iQ0Wc?si=d6QwBqqY9j1xl_7R&t=109
https://youtu.be/UXf2N1iQ0Wc?si=d6QwBqqY9j1xl_7R&t=109
How do you know that's transformers? And doesn't this shut them down / why is it so regular that you knew to start filming?
You see them blow during thunderstorms driving down the highway or across a bridge. Dallas gets an alarming amount of thunder during the summer as squall lines sweep across the state every week or two. I would imagine this was a cascade failure. I was reading a book of watching a movie and saw them out of the corner of my eye and finally decided to start filming.
Without commenting on this specific set of videos, it is already generally considered established that there are bright sky flashes before earthquakes that are not related to electrical infrastructure, but rather, natural in origin.
I don’t think there was electrical infrastructure in 869 CE.
Nor did substantial evidence
Oh yeah they are 100% electrical arcs.
This is crazy. I vividly remember being a child during the 1994 Northridge Earthquake (Los Angeles) and driving with my father (who had to pick me up from a friends) and seeing the sky more of a flashing fuschia color.
I was in the same quake and the sky looked glowy green to me. But I was out by the Paramount Ranch so less densely populated than most areas.
How is that not transformer explosions?
It looks exactly the same to my eye. https://youtu.be/q1_ZtCXLnes
It looks exactly the same to my eye. https://youtu.be/q1_ZtCXLnes
50% of that video is waiting for something to happen.
It is a 39 second video. You'll live to see it in its entirety.
Even in that one you can see some electrical equipment blowing at 08:47
Wow. I was watching this, then looked at the title… what the?! I live there!
Except, aren't these occurring during/after the shaking, not moments before. It really hurts my brain to try to even get to the level of thinking some people can just accept as a-okay
Common enough but it still lacks an explanation. They don't know what causes these flashes.
That is the point.
That is the point.
If they wanted to create a clickbaity ominous sounding article that hints at otherworldly, mysterious, or alien nature of the observed and otherwise fairly easy to explain phenomena associated with a dramatic event to drive traffic to their site - they could make up various claims.
Why are these flashes definitely not transformer stations or similar? Seems like an obvious answer from my armchair at least. Earthquake wave travels from epicenter to camera, and on its way it shorts out power infrastructure.
I've experienced it once myself, and I'm not 100% sure.
There was a large power substation about 5km away in roughly that direction, and that was my original assumption. But I don't think it tripped (at least not completely), as we didn't lose power.
It was also far brighter than I would expect from an arc at a substation (it drowned out local street lights), higher in the sky, with multiple flashes covering much more of the sky than a single substation.
So I strongly lean towards it being earthquake lights, which is a documented phenomenon.
There was a large power substation about 5km away in roughly that direction, and that was my original assumption. But I don't think it tripped (at least not completely), as we didn't lose power.
It was also far brighter than I would expect from an arc at a substation (it drowned out local street lights), higher in the sky, with multiple flashes covering much more of the sky than a single substation.
So I strongly lean towards it being earthquake lights, which is a documented phenomenon.
> So I strongly lean towards it being earthquake lights, which is a documented phenomenon.
Or, you know...UFO's.
Or, you know...UFO's.
The wikipedia page mentions occurrences in the years 869 and 1888.
Even back at those times earth quakes (2 miles/s) were a bit slower than the speed of light.
I don't know about 1888, but I'm fairly sure that electrical infrastructure didn't exist over a thousand years ago.
Well, with that attitude it didn't
It did exist before the Younger Drias period, though.
Atlantians used it to power their space ships.
Atlantians used it to power their space ships.
This phenomena has a few possible explanations:
One likely possibility is that power lines are shorting because they've become "guitar strings" and are touching each other while vibrating from the quake.
Another interesting possibility is that some of the underground rocks may be exhibiting the piezoelectric effect, generating high voltage electricity when squeezed, and the resulting sparks are observed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezoelectricity
One likely possibility is that power lines are shorting because they've become "guitar strings" and are touching each other while vibrating from the quake.
Another interesting possibility is that some of the underground rocks may be exhibiting the piezoelectric effect, generating high voltage electricity when squeezed, and the resulting sparks are observed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezoelectricity
>One likely possibility is that power lines are shorting because they've become "guitar strings" and are touching each other while vibrating from the quake.
From the article, emphasis mine:
>The intriguing bursts of light were captured on CCTV at a home in Agadir approximately three minutes before the disaster.
From the article, emphasis mine:
>The intriguing bursts of light were captured on CCTV at a home in Agadir approximately three minutes before the disaster.
I was wondering how well synchronized the camera clock is with the clock used to establish event timing in picking the earthquake arrivals.
There are several seconds between my smart watch time and the network time displayed on my workstation. There are several minutes between those two times which I consider accurate and the time displayed on the battery powered clock on the wall. There are hours between those times and the time displayed on my coffee-maker.
Where does the camera get its time stamp?
There are several seconds between my smart watch time and the network time displayed on my workstation. There are several minutes between those two times which I consider accurate and the time displayed on the battery powered clock on the wall. There are hours between those times and the time displayed on my coffee-maker.
Where does the camera get its time stamp?
Are you suggesting that the lights recorded in the video are actually happening during the earthquake? Wouldn't it be easy to tell when the earthquake occured due to camera shaking?
The link in this comment[0] shows the camera shaking well before the lights are flashing. Also, you can see the arcs of electricity in the flashes. Lightning is purple not bluish. Human made electrical systems make the bluish color. The flashes do not start until ~20s into the 39s video. How are we even coming close to these being "before" the earthquake?
[0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37485077
[0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37485077
3 minutes before the seism hit agadir, or three minutes before the seism happened? Because light is way faster than seismic waves.
Yeah, the article was pretty clear about it, it was absolutely before the quake hit the surface by a significant margin. Fascinating.
Then why does there appear to be an entire block whose lights go out at about 10 seconds into the video (about in the center)?
Yeah, the fact that they've often been observed immediately prior to a rupture makes me think piezoelectric effect.
Not to be a clever clogs about it, but the same pattern of blue flashes are often seen in significant freezing rain conditions when transformers or wires flash over.
I believe the possibility of a piezoelectric effect, but the specific blue colour is what makes me think of a power lines versus fracturing rocks.
You can see that sections of the grid flicker in line with the transformers shorting out.
However, there is a distinct short white flash at the 12 second mark, before the longer blue flashes start which I would presume has a different cause.
I believe the possibility of a piezoelectric effect, but the specific blue colour is what makes me think of a power lines versus fracturing rocks.
You can see that sections of the grid flicker in line with the transformers shorting out.
However, there is a distinct short white flash at the 12 second mark, before the longer blue flashes start which I would presume has a different cause.
I think that the "specific blue color" you see is explained with the composition of the atmosphere (nitrogen and oxygen mostly). The origin of such phenomenon won't change the colors (as long as it doesn't contribute with another elements).
The 'specific blue color' you get from crunching life savers to see the piezoelectric effect is due to excitation of nitrogen, so yeah.
Whatever it is, it has happened to the Philippines now.
These huge earthquakes are becoming more and more common ever since Turkey.
Hate to be that guy, but either the Earth decided to completely renew it's surface or someone is playing God. And they don't have to be human, if you know what I mean.
These huge earthquakes are becoming more and more common ever since Turkey.
Hate to be that guy, but either the Earth decided to completely renew it's surface or someone is playing God. And they don't have to be human, if you know what I mean.
a weapon is also a possible explanation until proven false.
US government already experienced with weather and climate and even in SF fog where they were successful spreading pathogens. why isnt something that could be considered?
US government already experienced with weather and climate and even in SF fog where they were successful spreading pathogens. why isnt something that could be considered?
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It's not some phenomenon, it's shitty sensationalism from the UK's worst "newspaper". I'm still surprised it didn't go the same was as the news of the world.
The UK would be a better place without media like this including the people who work for them.
> It's not some phenomenon,
I would say probably
depending on the kind of earthquake and sediment/ground/stone it can involve a bunch of friction not just in the crust which could create electric charge which could lead to ground to sky/cloud lightning
which would make it a (normal non mystical) natural phenomena
if you look at this random googled photo of ground to sky lightning (https://www.pinterest.com/pin/567172146806422809/) it color and form wise can "close enough" match the observed behavior
I would say probably
depending on the kind of earthquake and sediment/ground/stone it can involve a bunch of friction not just in the crust which could create electric charge which could lead to ground to sky/cloud lightning
which would make it a (normal non mystical) natural phenomena
if you look at this random googled photo of ground to sky lightning (https://www.pinterest.com/pin/567172146806422809/) it color and form wise can "close enough" match the observed behavior
The 23:08 timestamp on the video is 3 minutes before the earthquake struck at 23:11 [1]. If we understood this phenomenon well enough to be predictive, it would be much longer than the few seconds that current early warnings [2] provide.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Marrakesh-Safi_earthquake
[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake_Early_Warning_(Japa...
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Marrakesh-Safi_earthquake
[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake_Early_Warning_(Japa...
But how accurate is this device's timestamp? Even with NTP, there could be a lot of skew if it only syncs once in a while and has a bad internal clock otherwise.
The font of the timestamp/label is familiar though, so it's probably a cheap Chinese device, and I'd guess they're so widely used that they've managed to make the clock to be quite accurate.
The font of the timestamp/label is familiar though, so it's probably a cheap Chinese device, and I'd guess they're so widely used that they've managed to make the clock to be quite accurate.
Do you suspect that the time was wrong and the footage shown was actually shot during the 6.8 earthquake? Wouldn't the camera shaking make it clear when the earthquake was happening?
P-waves can take several seconds to travel from the visible horizon (or beyond, as transformer explosions are visible for a long distance) to your location.
If the camera is on the far-side of the transformer from the epicenter, then it could take from 5 to 30 or more seconds for ground shocks to be apparent. Speed of travel through solid rock is about 10,000 km/h, slower through softer or more disrupted geology.
If the camera is on the far-side of the transformer from the epicenter, then it could take from 5 to 30 or more seconds for ground shocks to be apparent. Speed of travel through solid rock is about 10,000 km/h, slower through softer or more disrupted geology.
From the video it looks like spark from some electric thing blowing up. You can see city lights around that spark going dark right after that flash.
I think because earth quake travels as a wave, it might have shaken up that area first causing something to blow up.
I think because earth quake travels as a wave, it might have shaken up that area first causing something to blow up.
Triboluminescence? Could it be the quake breaking light-emitting crystals?
Which rocks or minerals fluoresce in the ultraviolet to near ultraviolet end of the spectrum? I'd have to look that up but it could help understand the origin of the lights that are observed which can't be tied to infrastructure issues, weather, etc.
1. there is a an electromagnetic connection between the sun and the earth.
2. lightning is constantly equalizing voltage from space to earth.
3. earthquakes are probably caused by electrical imbalances, not the reverse.
4. most everyone here probably will deny 1..3 above and downvote me to oblivion.
5. read Christian Birkeland's biography. Or Hannes Alfven. then come back.
1. there is a an electromagnetic connection between the sun and the earth.
2. lightning is constantly equalizing voltage from space to earth.
3. earthquakes are probably caused by electrical imbalances, not the reverse.
4. most everyone here probably will deny 1..3 above.
5. read Christian Birkeland's biography. Or Hannes Alfven. then come back.
Was just reading about this the other day: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triboluminescence
To those blaming it in power infra, I have not see any proof if that, especially before the actual shock.
To those blaming it in power infra, I have not see any proof if that, especially before the actual shock.
Looks like electric universe to me.
https://thehonestscientist.com/electric-universe/
https://thehonestscientist.com/electric-universe/
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For those that don't know, "The Sun" is not exactly a trusted news source, it's just another red top.
"In sky" is a weird way to describe something that's clearly "on the ground."
Lived in FL and electrical infrastructure going boom and lighting blue was common during hurricanes
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A little rapid but a warning is there.. so to seem!
Its' just a transformer blowing up.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake_light
First recorded incident was in the year 869
First recorded incident was in the year 869
Yeah but this video is clearly just transformers blowing. A block of street lights goes out the exact same time as one of the flashes.
Because we're wont to trust people's opinions and perceptions from the year 869 ha ha.
I hear there's a recorded incident of a dead man who got buried in a cave and then resurrected and walked out of the cave some time later.
I hear there's a recorded incident of a dead man who got buried in a cave and then resurrected and walked out of the cave some time later.
phendrenad2(1)
This was my first guess though I have to wonder what the weather was just before the quake and how this camera is oriented relative to the quake epicenter.
It has the same intensity of a transformer shorting out and the color is very similar but it also looks like local lightning strikes along a line of storms.
As a geophysicist, I am in the crowd that believes that earthquake lights are a real phenomena related to the earthquake and they may eventually be utilized as a predictive tool. The technology is not mature enough to be able to understand their method of generation and the sensor network that would be necessary to use them as a predictive tool is too sparsely distributed.
I wonder whether every earthquake has a spectral signature but the only ones we are able to see directly are those that dip deeply enough into the blue end of the spectrum to fall within the limits of our own vision.
Perhaps a UV detector array deployed in an active region could help us understand whether we miss these signals because we can't see them unless the quake is powerful enough to cause a wide-bandwidth event that bleeds into the visible spectrum. This may also help explain why some animals that can see UV or spectral components outside our own visual limits are disturbed before earthquakes. Maybe they can see these signals and the combination of seeing these signals and feeling ground motion precursors could trigger the animal behavior that has been observed globally.
I think this is an interesting problem that requires further study.
It has the same intensity of a transformer shorting out and the color is very similar but it also looks like local lightning strikes along a line of storms.
As a geophysicist, I am in the crowd that believes that earthquake lights are a real phenomena related to the earthquake and they may eventually be utilized as a predictive tool. The technology is not mature enough to be able to understand their method of generation and the sensor network that would be necessary to use them as a predictive tool is too sparsely distributed.
I wonder whether every earthquake has a spectral signature but the only ones we are able to see directly are those that dip deeply enough into the blue end of the spectrum to fall within the limits of our own vision.
Perhaps a UV detector array deployed in an active region could help us understand whether we miss these signals because we can't see them unless the quake is powerful enough to cause a wide-bandwidth event that bleeds into the visible spectrum. This may also help explain why some animals that can see UV or spectral components outside our own visual limits are disturbed before earthquakes. Maybe they can see these signals and the combination of seeing these signals and feeling ground motion precursors could trigger the animal behavior that has been observed globally.
I think this is an interesting problem that requires further study.
> quake epicenter
An epicentre is just a human generated approximate coordinate - it has little to with the physical quake itself.
An epicentre is just a human generated approximate coordinate - it has little to with the physical quake itself.
Perhaps I should not have left that sentence as it ended up since it is lacking context. I was wondering out loud which direction the camera was pointing relative to the epicenter of the quake and where the camera was located so that one could attempt to place the observed lights relative to the epicenter and perhaps determine whether there is a surface expression of the ruptured fault that one could tie to the lights. The initial assumption in this case would be that the lights observed are in the sky and are caused by the quake perhaps as a precursor or as a direct result of ground motion generating energy sufficient to cause lights to be seen during the quake through some energy transfer mechanism that is currently poorly defined.
I'm not sure why you think the epicenter is unimportant in describing the "physical quake". To the geologist it helps establish rock types present in the rupture zone based on their knowledge of tectonic history and stratigraphy of the region. The characteristics of the overburden also help to understand how each wave mode in the full wavefield of the earthquake with be manifest at the surface as the energy propagates from the source (at the epicenter). The initial estimation of the magnitude of the earthquake may be revised as data from more sensors is factored in to the location determination, that is true. That does not mean that it is just a wild guess or that it is poorly constrained.
I'm not sure why you think the epicenter is unimportant in describing the "physical quake". To the geologist it helps establish rock types present in the rupture zone based on their knowledge of tectonic history and stratigraphy of the region. The characteristics of the overburden also help to understand how each wave mode in the full wavefield of the earthquake with be manifest at the surface as the energy propagates from the source (at the epicenter). The initial estimation of the magnitude of the earthquake may be revised as data from more sensors is factored in to the location determination, that is true. That does not mean that it is just a wild guess or that it is poorly constrained.
There is no center to an earthquake - it is like an average.
> as the energy propagates from the source (at the epicenter)
That just isn't how earthquakes work.
Let's assume a slip along a plane cutting through the ground. The earthquake waves are generated at all parts of the surface slip (all parts of the plane). At different times as the rupture propogates. There is no center - that is merely a simplification.
> as the energy propagates from the source (at the epicenter)
That just isn't how earthquakes work.
Let's assume a slip along a plane cutting through the ground. The earthquake waves are generated at all parts of the surface slip (all parts of the plane). At different times as the rupture propogates. There is no center - that is merely a simplification.
That's entirely possible, as speeds are about several thousand meters per second, and differ significantly between several types of waves:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seismic_wave
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seismic_wave
Why does it blow up _before_ the quake?
It could be in response to the p-wave, which arrives before the higher-amplitude shear wave.
It takes time for the earthquake to propagate, much slower than the speed of light.
Earthquake lights have been reported minutes, hours, even days before the quake, and also after them. It's not transformers blowing up, although that also happens and can also light up the sky. The light seems to somehow be caused by massive increases or releases of stress in crystalline bedrock, possibly piezoelectrically in quartz, or similar mechanisms.
There was a paper posted here on HBO that claimed some correlation between cosmic waves and seismic activity. At face value correlation was very strong.
One feature was the asynchronicity - one of the variables had to be lagged, I can't remember which one.
Not sure what to make it but possibly related to lights in the sky.
One feature was the asynchronicity - one of the variables had to be lagged, I can't remember which one.
Not sure what to make it but possibly related to lights in the sky.
Maybe the quake caused the arching powerlines in the distance before the quake reached the location of the camera?
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What’s next articles from the weekly world news? Has elvis been sighted again?
Anything to get the /UFO guys pants wet
The Sun, like the Express and the Daily Star, are "bat boy" quality UK tabloids and should probably just get blocked from being posted on HN. They were also reporting (incorrectly) that "world war one diseases" were spreading at Burning Man, and there's an article in the Daily Star this morning that alleges the "ancient city of Sodom was blown up by an atomic weapon". These are not reliable sources of information, please help me in preventing them from receiving more ad revenue by not aggregating their junk news. Similarly to the scientific method, sources of information should be appropriately vetted based on past performance.
Slightly off topic but I've pondered making a plugin that blocks and removes certain "news" sources of my choice from loading on my browser and showing in news aggregators and search engine results. I can avoid them on my desktop and on HN easily because I see the URL preview, but it's much harder on my phone.
Someone below has also pointed out that most of these UK tabloids are noted in the Wikipedia list of potentially unreliable sources https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Potentially_unreli...
Slightly off topic but I've pondered making a plugin that blocks and removes certain "news" sources of my choice from loading on my browser and showing in news aggregators and search engine results. I can avoid them on my desktop and on HN easily because I see the URL preview, but it's much harder on my phone.
Someone below has also pointed out that most of these UK tabloids are noted in the Wikipedia list of potentially unreliable sources https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Potentially_unreli...
> "bat boy" quality
Was bat boy an invention of Weekly World News? If so, WWW was satirical, with intentionally bizarre made-up stories. People were supposed to read it for the comedy, but I guess a version of Poe's Law applies and some people took it seriously. I remember one article of WWW claimed Saddam Hussein was hiding in a submarine in an American lake -- and I bet some people believed this.
The Sun I imagine pretends to be a serious newspaper though.
Was bat boy an invention of Weekly World News? If so, WWW was satirical, with intentionally bizarre made-up stories. People were supposed to read it for the comedy, but I guess a version of Poe's Law applies and some people took it seriously. I remember one article of WWW claimed Saddam Hussein was hiding in a submarine in an American lake -- and I bet some people believed this.
The Sun I imagine pretends to be a serious newspaper though.
Actually, there was more to it than satire and comedy.
WWN was made into what it was by the same guy as was behind the creation of the National Enquirer as a tabloid - Gene Pope.
A graduate of MIT in just 3 years, when he bought up the Enquirer he'd been employed in the CIA's psychological warfare department immediately prior.
This was in 1952, the same year the CIA and other military groups met to discuss the increase in UFO sightings (like the ones making front page news over Washington DC that same year), and started project Blue Book.
Suddenly Gene Pope buys up a struggling periodical, turns it into a tabloid putting stories of UFO sightings next to sightings of Elvis being alive. This was expanded in 1979 to the WWN, where the paired stories became even more outrageous (Bat Boy).
For decades the mere mention of UFOs was typically associated with tin foil hats, and was the result of a likely intentional domestic propaganda effort that took on legs of its own as successful tabloids in their own right.
WWN was made into what it was by the same guy as was behind the creation of the National Enquirer as a tabloid - Gene Pope.
A graduate of MIT in just 3 years, when he bought up the Enquirer he'd been employed in the CIA's psychological warfare department immediately prior.
This was in 1952, the same year the CIA and other military groups met to discuss the increase in UFO sightings (like the ones making front page news over Washington DC that same year), and started project Blue Book.
Suddenly Gene Pope buys up a struggling periodical, turns it into a tabloid putting stories of UFO sightings next to sightings of Elvis being alive. This was expanded in 1979 to the WWN, where the paired stories became even more outrageous (Bat Boy).
For decades the mere mention of UFOs was typically associated with tin foil hats, and was the result of a likely intentional domestic propaganda effort that took on legs of its own as successful tabloids in their own right.
> This was in 1952... sightings of Elvis being alive.
Remarkably, rumors of Elvis being alive persisted until 1977!
Remarkably, rumors of Elvis being alive persisted until 1977!
Fascinating, and concerning in light of Grusch. Given this, (which I concur about just from my brief review of Pope & National Enquirer wikipedia articles), then I'd be interested in seeing a data science approach to quantifying proportion of UFO coverage in the Enquirer year by year since its founding, as well as some measure of 'outlandishness' across its entire coverage base over the same period.
As a consumer in supermarkets, it's hard to overstate how powerful the effect of stifling rational interest in the UFO/ UAP topic is when one passes those tabloids in the checkout line every week, which contain any number of random claims in the headlines alongside presumably legitimate and illegitimate UFO-related coverage.
As a consumer in supermarkets, it's hard to overstate how powerful the effect of stifling rational interest in the UFO/ UAP topic is when one passes those tabloids in the checkout line every week, which contain any number of random claims in the headlines alongside presumably legitimate and illegitimate UFO-related coverage.
To this day the term "UFO" tends to be related to "Alien Flying Saucers", rather than "Exaggerated reports of military testing", which seems to be the most related facts we know decades later.
I think despite the bizarre and made up stories on occasion the national enquirer has actually dug up some good scoops. Not often… but it’s surprising!
Here are some of the choicest scoops: https://www.ranker.com/list/national-enquirer-real-news/evan...
I think they also outed several celebrities over the years back when it was taboo.
Here are some of the choicest scoops: https://www.ranker.com/list/national-enquirer-real-news/evan...
I think they also outed several celebrities over the years back when it was taboo.
> the same year the CIA and other military groups met to discuss the increase in UFO sightings
I read that as CIA and other military groups met to discuss increasing the UFO sightings and didn't blink an eye, it fit in so well.
I read that as CIA and other military groups met to discuss increasing the UFO sightings and didn't blink an eye, it fit in so well.
I had some fun back in College in the 90’s cutting out articles from Weekly World News and tacking them to the bulletin board just outside the physics library. This board was full of cutouts of interesting real science articles, regularly thumbtacked by the librarians.
One example WWW headline was something like “Scientists discover black hole the size of a head of a pin in the Nevada desert.”
One example WWW headline was something like “Scientists discover black hole the size of a head of a pin in the Nevada desert.”
I come from a poor working class area so believe me people didn't get the comedy. It was an early version of "muh space lasers started the Maui fire"
I'm not saying all poor working class people are ignorant and gullible. I'm saying there's a minority who are uneducated and conspiratorial minded.
> submarine in a lake
Made me spill my coffee!
Made me spill my coffee!
Well, I couldn't find the submarine cover, but this will SHOCK you... the actual Iraqi weapons of mass destruction:
https://weeklyworldnewsvault.tumblr.com/post/130026803238/co...
Warning: that site has plenty more WWW covers, you may lose a good chunk of your time perusing them.
https://weeklyworldnewsvault.tumblr.com/post/130026803238/co...
Warning: that site has plenty more WWW covers, you may lose a good chunk of your time perusing them.
With the targeted aside:
> Get your career diploma at home!
Edit: made even more special after the subsequent one:
> More hair!! Style it fast! With Wild Growth® Hair Oil
> Get your career diploma at home!
Edit: made even more special after the subsequent one:
> More hair!! Style it fast! With Wild Growth® Hair Oil
> Get your career diploma at home!
Is it much different than getting a “diploma” drum prerecorded videos?
Is it much different than getting a “diploma” drum prerecorded videos?
Despite that being true, "earthquake lights" are a real phenomenon and do indeed have varied theories with no proven explanation. They have been captured and documented, etc.
I've always gone for "sudden stressing of rock causing piezoelectric effect on a rather large scale that ionises gases in the atmosphere" as my Just So story of why.
The earth has massive electrical fields running in it. I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of electrical discharge occurred between the ground and sky during an even that breaks conduction of said currents.
Wikipedia has such a list of sources it considers reliable and unreliable, and The Sun is very much in the unreliable category.
> Wikipedia has such a list of sources it considers reliable and unreliable
Russell suggests to check where Wikipedia ranks in that list.
Well, the "credibility discrimination problem" is much easier on some sources (the "Rockstar ate my Hamster" headlines runners for example).
Russell suggests to check where Wikipedia ranks in that list.
Well, the "credibility discrimination problem" is much easier on some sources (the "Rockstar ate my Hamster" headlines runners for example).
Wikipedia policies explicity forbid using Wikipedia itself as a source for Wikipedia articles. See https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:RSPRIMA...
> "Rockstar ate my Hamster"
I remember playing that on the amiga
Wikipedia is not a primary source.
> Wikipedia is not a primary source
Yes, I played on the term "source", as "witness" vs "reporter", to stress in theory the human factor and in practice the paradox (inherent in the difficulties Wikipedia has to have in providing quality).
Yes, I played on the term "source", as "witness" vs "reporter", to stress in theory the human factor and in practice the paradox (inherent in the difficulties Wikipedia has to have in providing quality).
Or even a secondary source. It strives to be a tertiary source.
Quite.
(I'd thought of noting that it's not secondary either, decided to keep it simple.)
What Wikipedia is generally good at is in providing a synoptic presentation of a topic and identifying sources that document the points, facts, or arguments it presents. I'll often mine it for resources when doing a shallow dive on a topic.
For deeper dives, I'll try to branch out further from both those and other points.
(I'd thought of noting that it's not secondary either, decided to keep it simple.)
What Wikipedia is generally good at is in providing a synoptic presentation of a topic and identifying sources that document the points, facts, or arguments it presents. I'll often mine it for resources when doing a shallow dive on a topic.
For deeper dives, I'll try to branch out further from both those and other points.
Could you post the link? I would actually love to have this as a resource.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Potentially_unreli...
Didn’t know about this page either!
Didn’t know about this page either!
I was thinking of this list:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/P...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/P...
> ancient city of Sodom
God, I can't even. People are in desperate need of media literacy classes.
Also, what non-right wing conservative person is baited by that headline? Its so fing transparent to whom they are appealing.
God, I can't even. People are in desperate need of media literacy classes.
Also, what non-right wing conservative person is baited by that headline? Its so fing transparent to whom they are appealing.
Those kind of storys are not written seriously and tend to be a bit satirical. They are mocking the "boffins" who do this kind of research. They don't expect the reader to believe a word of it.
Which is to say, that the target audience may in fact be the exact opposite of the one gp suggests.
> "ancient city of Sodom was blown up by an atomic weapon"
This is hyperbole at best. Sodom and Gomorrah have been confirmed to have experienced a "heat event" that caused pottery to exhibit the same chemical glazing that happens in a nuclear blast. Note that a nuke is not required for this form of glazing to appear, just very high temperatures.
See https://youtu.be/SDiYb20iAsM for an informal discussion.
I guess a partial truth is easier to sell than a complete fabrication.
This is hyperbole at best. Sodom and Gomorrah have been confirmed to have experienced a "heat event" that caused pottery to exhibit the same chemical glazing that happens in a nuclear blast. Note that a nuke is not required for this form of glazing to appear, just very high temperatures.
See https://youtu.be/SDiYb20iAsM for an informal discussion.
I guess a partial truth is easier to sell than a complete fabrication.
> The Sun [...] were also reporting (incorrectly) that Ebola was spreading at Burning Man
Can you substantiate this claim? I'm searching for such an article from The Sun and can't find anything. I have found numerous stories about the burning man ebola hoax, but none of them say The Sun participated in it.
I'm not saying you're lying, but maybe you fell for some fake news about fake news. I found this Reuters article about a faked screenshot of a Forbes article, purporting to show Forbes spread the hoax (they didn't): https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-burning-man-forbes...
Can you substantiate this claim? I'm searching for such an article from The Sun and can't find anything. I have found numerous stories about the burning man ebola hoax, but none of them say The Sun participated in it.
I'm not saying you're lying, but maybe you fell for some fake news about fake news. I found this Reuters article about a faked screenshot of a Forbes article, purporting to show Forbes spread the hoax (they didn't): https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-burning-man-forbes...
They may have removed the text, regardless I removed the reference to it in my comment. They also alleged that people were getting "trench foot", or as they described it at the time, "a world war one disease".
I was at Burning Man during the rain/mud, went bare foot for a few days, did not get "trench foot", nor did anyone else I knew there. Their unbelievably trashy reporting during that (everybody is fighting and getting trench warfare diseases, etc) is one of the reasons I'm unusually motivated to comment on their reliability as a source of information today.
I was at Burning Man during the rain/mud, went bare foot for a few days, did not get "trench foot", nor did anyone else I knew there. Their unbelievably trashy reporting during that (everybody is fighting and getting trench warfare diseases, etc) is one of the reasons I'm unusually motivated to comment on their reliability as a source of information today.
If anyone cares: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trench_foot
but be warned not so nice pictures
Also known as:
> immersion foot syndrome[6] and as a nonfreezing cold injury (NFCI)
quote of cause:
> It can occur in temperatures up to 16 °C (61 °F) and within as little as 13 hours. Exposure to these environmental conditions causes deterioration and destruction of the capillaries and leads to damage of the surrounding flesh.[7] Excessive sweating (hyperhidrosis) has long been regarded as a contributory cause. Unsanitary, cold, and wet conditions can also cause trench foot.[8]
Idk. how warm it was there, but looking at other clothes worn probably not ~<16C, additionally even if the mud is that cold as long as you take brakes to warm up your feed e.g. in the mid day sun and don't walk through the night it still would be very unlikely. Then not having to walk in the same wet boots you have been wearing (wet) since weeks also helps.
And even if some one got NFCI it likely was only a case which comparable with what people had in WW1 was quite harmless. I.e. not really what people think about when mentioning trench foot (and knowing what it's about).
So all in all misleading and in a very intentional and knowing manner.
but be warned not so nice pictures
Also known as:
> immersion foot syndrome[6] and as a nonfreezing cold injury (NFCI)
quote of cause:
> It can occur in temperatures up to 16 °C (61 °F) and within as little as 13 hours. Exposure to these environmental conditions causes deterioration and destruction of the capillaries and leads to damage of the surrounding flesh.[7] Excessive sweating (hyperhidrosis) has long been regarded as a contributory cause. Unsanitary, cold, and wet conditions can also cause trench foot.[8]
Idk. how warm it was there, but looking at other clothes worn probably not ~<16C, additionally even if the mud is that cold as long as you take brakes to warm up your feed e.g. in the mid day sun and don't walk through the night it still would be very unlikely. Then not having to walk in the same wet boots you have been wearing (wet) since weeks also helps.
And even if some one got NFCI it likely was only a case which comparable with what people had in WW1 was quite harmless. I.e. not really what people think about when mentioning trench foot (and knowing what it's about).
So all in all misleading and in a very intentional and knowing manner.
I am not sure, many times in front of The Onion¹ I get the drive "I should post this on HN".
Maybe we could have a parallel twin site for non serious "news"?
Edit: ¹or other sources mixed with the serious ones: for example, the pages from Andy Borowitz on The NewYorker. This just came out in real time... https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/trump-calls-...
Maybe we could have a parallel twin site for non serious "news"?
Edit: ¹or other sources mixed with the serious ones: for example, the pages from Andy Borowitz on The NewYorker. This just came out in real time... https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/trump-calls-...
I remember a while back there was a Twitter account called "Hacker News Onion". My favourite headline: Developer accused of unreadable code refuses to comment.
Maybe we could have a parallel twin site for non serious "news"?
Yep, it's still around
Probably because the vast majority of people on the internet don't know anything about British newspapers or their quality.
I'd say The Sun and Daily Mail are (in)famous enough that knowing their worthlessness is essentially media criticism 101. Certainly on a site like HN where the participants aren't "the vast majority of people on the internet".
> media criticism 101
You have to understand that this is (likely purposefully on both sides) not compulsory or well-attended. Hell, it really should be a grade 9 required class but that would make it harder to lie to future constituents. Can't have that. Same with law and various other essential life skills like drivers ed which are conspicuosly absent from general curricula.
You have to understand that this is (likely purposefully on both sides) not compulsory or well-attended. Hell, it really should be a grade 9 required class but that would make it harder to lie to future constituents. Can't have that. Same with law and various other essential life skills like drivers ed which are conspicuosly absent from general curricula.
I didn't mean it literally but in the idiomatic sense of being common knowledge if you're at all media literate (which I hope most HN readers are!) Where I'm from, media criticism has a fairly strong emphasis in the highschool (equivalent) curriculum, but definitely should be even stronger, especially in this post-truth era.
(Drivers' ed is hardly an essential life skill in many parts of the world, btw.)
(Drivers' ed is hardly an essential life skill in many parts of the world, btw.)
Its far more important than most of the compulsory stuff you learn first of all, and second, its better to have thr schools manage it and get it done early when its easy to provision all the materials and obviously a car which not everyone has.
Lastly, media literacy is basically (as far as I'm aware) not really compulsory or required for most students. I'm saying it should be. They are the perfect age to learn about how these systems subjugate and weaponize their personal data, emotions, etc
Lastly, media literacy is basically (as far as I'm aware) not really compulsory or required for most students. I'm saying it should be. They are the perfect age to learn about how these systems subjugate and weaponize their personal data, emotions, etc
Where is that at [country]?
I'd like to have a survey done, "What would you associate to the expression 'Page 3'".
[deleted]
Poor suggestion based on articles that you disagree with and how it was presented. I don’t understand why people jump to censorship as a solution to their own biases.
If you read the article, they’re only reporting on the light. No explanation was given. Are you now denying it never happened or that you just don’t like the outlet; since they’re two different things.
If you read the article, they’re only reporting on the light. No explanation was given. Are you now denying it never happened or that you just don’t like the outlet; since they’re two different things.
You think a user's ability to have a choice in where their content comes from is censorship? Do you think the block feature on Twitter is censorship as well?
HN is not an "everything goes" platform, it has specific guidelines and policies designed to drive a higher quality conversation and higher quality sources of information, which is one of the reasons it stands out as a good aggregator for me. And I'm of the opinion that UK tabloid spam doesn't meet the criteria, not because of their political bent (I don't know what it is *), but because of their consistently wobbly and expedient relationship with the truth when it happens to be incompatible with their business model.
* I'm guessing faux conservative, since at least one of them is owned by Rupert Murdoch, same owner of the famously high quality Fox News who just lost a high profile $787.5 million defamation lawsuit for false reporting on voting machines.
HN is not an "everything goes" platform, it has specific guidelines and policies designed to drive a higher quality conversation and higher quality sources of information, which is one of the reasons it stands out as a good aggregator for me. And I'm of the opinion that UK tabloid spam doesn't meet the criteria, not because of their political bent (I don't know what it is *), but because of their consistently wobbly and expedient relationship with the truth when it happens to be incompatible with their business model.
* I'm guessing faux conservative, since at least one of them is owned by Rupert Murdoch, same owner of the famously high quality Fox News who just lost a high profile $787.5 million defamation lawsuit for false reporting on voting machines.
Is this related to ball lightning? My mother witnessed that once - a glowing ball slowly moving through the kitchen.
I think there is a non small chance that it was ground to sky lightning cause by electric charged caused through the friction/pressured accumulated just before the quack erupted.
When googling for images for ground to sky lightning video cameras often perceive it in similar colors as what was seen on the video, the form also somewhat matches if you consider that the bottom isn't visible (covered by houses) from the distance.
When googling for images for ground to sky lightning video cameras often perceive it in similar colors as what was seen on the video, the form also somewhat matches if you consider that the bottom isn't visible (covered by houses) from the distance.
solumunus(1)
That might have been a tab of acid or some special mushrooms added to the rice.
Ball lighting will never cease to fascinate me.
The deniers vehemently deny, and outright insult people’s experiences.
The people who say they’ve experienced will be adamant that they have.
Honestly, I hope it’s real and we find a way to replicate it only because it’s so cool.
The deniers vehemently deny, and outright insult people’s experiences.
The people who say they’ve experienced will be adamant that they have.
Honestly, I hope it’s real and we find a way to replicate it only because it’s so cool.
Lots of people are also adamant that spirit overcomes them and causes an episode of speaking in tongues. We have quite a few instances of this and other religious experiences, none of which passes any sort of scrutiny.
There are more cameras pointed all over the place than ever, and somehow there has never been a recording of this phenomena, despite the Wikipedia claiming upwards of 5% of people having experienced this?
Nah.
There are more cameras pointed all over the place than ever, and somehow there has never been a recording of this phenomena, despite the Wikipedia claiming upwards of 5% of people having experienced this?
Nah.
A few people recorded it on camera, and there's even published studies: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24886-natural-ball-li...
It seems like they're is a lot of things that polarize like that. Like near death experiences. People say that their death experience of reality was so much more real than ours, like when we wake from a normal dream and intuitively know we are in reality. That our everyday reality is just a simple simulation compared to true reality.
To them it is completely obvious and real. That this life is a mere shadow, a simulation. Nothing will convince them otherwise.
But we (general public without that experience) can't possibly believe it, come up with many theories on what the brain is doing.
I've never experienced ball lightning but I can believe the ones who have most of the time.
Death experiences, I can't even imagine something more real than my current reality, how could I possibly start to believe it? Despite how obvious it is to those who went through it, it's impossible for me to even begin imagining something like that.
To them it is completely obvious and real. That this life is a mere shadow, a simulation. Nothing will convince them otherwise.
But we (general public without that experience) can't possibly believe it, come up with many theories on what the brain is doing.
I've never experienced ball lightning but I can believe the ones who have most of the time.
Death experiences, I can't even imagine something more real than my current reality, how could I possibly start to believe it? Despite how obvious it is to those who went through it, it's impossible for me to even begin imagining something like that.
That's akin to a psychedelic experience: that reality feels more real than the everyday reality we live in, which, in comparison, comes across as quite shallow.
I've never tried that, maybe I'd have to before I could ever understand how someone could feel like it's more real.
I've avoided psychedelics because all I have is my brain, and I'm scared I could screw something up in my mind. I kinda want to keep my mind safe, it's all I am. Losing the consistency of my mind that I've always known is scary.
I've avoided psychedelics because all I have is my brain, and I'm scared I could screw something up in my mind. I kinda want to keep my mind safe, it's all I am. Losing the consistency of my mind that I've always known is scary.
> I've avoided psychedelics because all I have is my brain, and I'm scared I could screw something up in my mind. I kinda want to keep my mind safe, it's all I am. Losing the consistency of my mind that I've always known is scary.
Psychedelics probably won't permanently screw you up. On the most common ones, like psilocybin mushrooms or LSD, you may even still feel very much yourself while tripping.
That said, if this is your attitude about psychedelics, they would probably be a bad time for you. It's one of those things where the more you stiffen up and brace yourself, the scarier and more uncomfortable the changes in your perception that come with tripping will seem to you. You definitely want to approach them with more openness and curiosity, and if you don't feel like that's available to you with respect to psychedelics, opting out of them is a totally sound choice.
Psychedelics probably won't permanently screw you up. On the most common ones, like psilocybin mushrooms or LSD, you may even still feel very much yourself while tripping.
That said, if this is your attitude about psychedelics, they would probably be a bad time for you. It's one of those things where the more you stiffen up and brace yourself, the scarier and more uncomfortable the changes in your perception that come with tripping will seem to you. You definitely want to approach them with more openness and curiosity, and if you don't feel like that's available to you with respect to psychedelics, opting out of them is a totally sound choice.
Thanks for the info. Maybe one day, but I'll take that all into consideration.
Just a note, there are warning that the earthquake is used to spread disinformation.
From a New York Times article yesterday about a different natural disaster (the wildfire in Maui):
> Natural disasters have often been the focus of disinformation campaigns, allowing bad actors to exploit emotions to accuse governments of shortcomings, either in preparation or in response. The goal can be to undermine trust in specific policies, like U.S. support for Ukraine, or more generally to sow internal discord. By suggesting the United States was testing or using secret weapons against its own citizens, China’s effort also seemed intended to depict the country as a reckless, militaristic power.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/11/us/politics/china-disinfo...
> Natural disasters have often been the focus of disinformation campaigns, allowing bad actors to exploit emotions to accuse governments of shortcomings, either in preparation or in response. The goal can be to undermine trust in specific policies, like U.S. support for Ukraine, or more generally to sow internal discord. By suggesting the United States was testing or using secret weapons against its own citizens, China’s effort also seemed intended to depict the country as a reckless, militaristic power.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/11/us/politics/china-disinfo...
Kate Starbird, disinformation researcher at the University of Washington, got her start investigating crisis communications and disinformation which would emerge during crises, at the University of Colorado Boulder.
See: <https://fsi.stanford.edu/events/beyond-%E2%80%9Cbots-and-tro...>
She discusses this in some of her online presentations on YouTube. If you're interested in those, I'd suggest looking prior to ~2020 and ~2016 specifically as later discussion gets more caught up in COVID-19 related and Trump-related topics. Which are interesting in their own right but not the sources I had in mind.
(I'll see if I can locate a representative video, there's a lot to comb through.)
See: <https://fsi.stanford.edu/events/beyond-%E2%80%9Cbots-and-tro...>
She discusses this in some of her online presentations on YouTube. If you're interested in those, I'd suggest looking prior to ~2020 and ~2016 specifically as later discussion gets more caught up in COVID-19 related and Trump-related topics. Which are interesting in their own right but not the sources I had in mind.
(I'll see if I can locate a representative video, there's a lot to comb through.)
Does Kate or any of her peers ever discuss the particulars of how language is used by those on both sides of various disagreements to imply certain facts without asserting them outright (as in the GP comment)?
I'm not sure if she discusses that specific element of disinformation, though her research covers a number of dimensions, from disinfo-at-scale in social networks to types of disinformation.
Her publications are listed at her UW bio page: <https://ischool.uw.edu/people/faculty/profile/kstarbi>
"Disinformation campaigns are murky blends of truth, lies and sincere beliefs – lessons from the pandemic (2020)" might address that point: <https://theconversation.com/disinformation-campaigns-are-mur...>
Specific rhetorical methods of disinformation seems like a topic others are working on. Possibly useful DDG search: <https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ftsa&q=rhetoric+of+disinformation+...>
Her publications are listed at her UW bio page: <https://ischool.uw.edu/people/faculty/profile/kstarbi>
"Disinformation campaigns are murky blends of truth, lies and sincere beliefs – lessons from the pandemic (2020)" might address that point: <https://theconversation.com/disinformation-campaigns-are-mur...>
Specific rhetorical methods of disinformation seems like a topic others are working on. Possibly useful DDG search: <https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ftsa&q=rhetoric+of+disinformation+...>
You don't need bad actors for a disinfo campaign. There's a certain type of person in a natural disaster that just loses their head and starts making shit up on social media, and they're fairly common. I've seen it a few times now and it's crazy. They'll make things up that could jepordize people's lives for the likes, I guess.
Also, having seen FEMA at work first hand, they are approximately useless. I could see a lot of anger happening organically.
Also, having seen FEMA at work first hand, they are approximately useless. I could see a lot of anger happening organically.
> certain type of person in a natural disaster that just loses their head and starts making shit up on social media
They're the "everything happens for a reason" types. Their belief system doesn't properly integrate chance events, so when confronted with one, they create a bogeyman. Because somebody being in control, even a bad somebody, is more comprehensible than nobody being at the wheel.
They're the "everything happens for a reason" types. Their belief system doesn't properly integrate chance events, so when confronted with one, they create a bogeyman. Because somebody being in control, even a bad somebody, is more comprehensible than nobody being at the wheel.
Sometimes, but not always. There are PLENTY of "highly" rational people who do similarly as they utilize reasoning at the "close enough" level as is the cultural (and culturally enforced) norm in their country/era. And if you protest based on a more strict approach, expect to be dismissed ("debunked") via culturally ingrained, rhetorically persuasive memes.
Avoiding all errors in cognition is often extremely difficult, ain't nobody got time for that sort of "pedantry".
Avoiding all errors in cognition is often extremely difficult, ain't nobody got time for that sort of "pedantry".
There are also just those who actually always had kooky beliefs, but normally they weren't relevant so even their acquaintances didn't know, but after a disaster they feel they're obligated to help, which manifests in them espousing their kooky beliefs on social media.
You don't need bad actors, but there are certainly types who will deliberately and consciously take advantage of a situation when it arises.
The crazies and loons simply make the job of that first type much easier.
The crazies and loons simply make the job of that first type much easier.
macinjosh(4)
Well that's very ironic comong from the NYT, lol.
I have a friend who claims that the Maui wildfires were fake. I intend on slapping my friend upside his stupid head next time I see him.
https://twitter.com/Eyaaaad/status/1700621598456234148