NexDock turns your smartphone into a laptop(nexdock.com)
nexdock.com
NexDock turns your smartphone into a laptop
https://nexdock.com/
215 comments
It's a crying shame that Apple don't offer a desktop mode on iPhones. The chips are more than powerful enough to give a no-compromises experience (for most use casual use cases at least), the disks are large enough to store 2 OSs, and they have a full desktop OS sitting around ready for use.
It'd make it a lot harder to sell macs, but it would be an absolutely killer device.
It'd make it a lot harder to sell macs, but it would be an absolutely killer device.
People have been begging for a real desktop mode on the iPad forever, if Apple won't even do it for a device which uses the same processor as their laptops and even has an official laptop-style keyboard accessory then they're certainly not going to do it for the iPhone.
They’re really going at it from a weird angle. iOS 18 features the ability to screen share your iPhone to your desktop. They seemingly want to make sure you have a main Mac desktop always.
I could see Mac doing something like the Surface Book form factor. Basically an iPad MacBook hybrid with more power.
I could see Mac doing something like the Surface Book form factor. Basically an iPad MacBook hybrid with more power.
> They seemingly want to make sure you have a main Mac desktop always.
At some point it might even become a "licensing" proposition: If you are registered (or once-connected) or some such as having a desktop, you will get Desktop features on your other devices ...
(Of course once you buy the very expensive Apple brand docks, and keyboards and dongles and cables and adapters and (perhaps) extra monthly fees that you will need ...
Maybe they might couple this with their AI efforts, in making their whole "AI product" into a hardware "box" that you need (even if the box is "dumb" and "Amazon-echo like" ...
... I am guessing Apple will be the first to "commoditize" AI. Perhaps via hardware. Expensive hardware. Apple hardware ...)
At some point it might even become a "licensing" proposition: If you are registered (or once-connected) or some such as having a desktop, you will get Desktop features on your other devices ...
(Of course once you buy the very expensive Apple brand docks, and keyboards and dongles and cables and adapters and (perhaps) extra monthly fees that you will need ...
Maybe they might couple this with their AI efforts, in making their whole "AI product" into a hardware "box" that you need (even if the box is "dumb" and "Amazon-echo like" ...
... I am guessing Apple will be the first to "commoditize" AI. Perhaps via hardware. Expensive hardware. Apple hardware ...)
what in the world are you talking about?
none of these things exist, or show any hint of existing. i'd love apple to make an apple dock. they don't because they don't need to; apple hardware uses thunderbolt 4, so thunderbolt docks work. (i do wish apple would support MST in their laptops though, so I can get multiple monitors connected via a single dock without that silly DisplayLink nonsense, but not even an apple dock could get around this limitation.)
your paranoia about apple-proprietary docks, keyboards, dongles, cables, adapters and (perhaps) monthly fees, are completely off-base from what I've seen out of apple.
...and i'm not even an apple fan.
none of these things exist, or show any hint of existing. i'd love apple to make an apple dock. they don't because they don't need to; apple hardware uses thunderbolt 4, so thunderbolt docks work. (i do wish apple would support MST in their laptops though, so I can get multiple monitors connected via a single dock without that silly DisplayLink nonsense, but not even an apple dock could get around this limitation.)
your paranoia about apple-proprietary docks, keyboards, dongles, cables, adapters and (perhaps) monthly fees, are completely off-base from what I've seen out of apple.
...and i'm not even an apple fan.
Might have overdone it a bit for sake of exposition, but Apple killed the headphone jack. Their accessory ecosystem is a thing ...
yes, but they don't require that you use their hardware. non-Apple bluetooth headphones are a thing, and they work great. Apple desktops and laptops still have physical headphone/headset jacks, too.
I personally prefer wireless headphones when using a phone, because having the cable often required that you either have the phone out and in your hand the whole time, because the cable is too short, or somehow the headphone cable is far too long and it gets caught on everything as you move around. I understand wanting to have the option, of course, and I recognize that not everyone shares my preferences.
Having designed electronic circuit boards in the past, I also know that the removal of a connector is always considered a "win". connectors suck and are the source of a lot of problems down the line, especially if they are for connecting to the outside world.
I personally prefer wireless headphones when using a phone, because having the cable often required that you either have the phone out and in your hand the whole time, because the cable is too short, or somehow the headphone cable is far too long and it gets caught on everything as you move around. I understand wanting to have the option, of course, and I recognize that not everyone shares my preferences.
Having designed electronic circuit boards in the past, I also know that the removal of a connector is always considered a "win". connectors suck and are the source of a lot of problems down the line, especially if they are for connecting to the outside world.
> They seemingly want to make sure you have a main Mac desktop always.
I’m willing to believe in this case it’s because they want the Mac to survive. I’m sure every Mac is profitable (in accord with one of Apple’s core values) but Mac sales are pretty tiny compared to other products.
Even when Apple fans say “St Stephen would be rolling in his grave if they got rid of the Mac”, he famously said he’d milk the Mac for all it was worth while doing the next thing.
Separately, there’s already a ton of writing on why iPad and Mac won’t completely converge
I’m willing to believe in this case it’s because they want the Mac to survive. I’m sure every Mac is profitable (in accord with one of Apple’s core values) but Mac sales are pretty tiny compared to other products.
Even when Apple fans say “St Stephen would be rolling in his grave if they got rid of the Mac”, he famously said he’d milk the Mac for all it was worth while doing the next thing.
Separately, there’s already a ton of writing on why iPad and Mac won’t completely converge
Mac, iPad and Home/Wearables all bring in similar revenue. iPhone is the hardware category that dwarfs the rest. Software revenue is roughly equal to Mac/iPad/Wearables combined.
With any new technology with apple don’t look at how it is used now but what products it will enable in 3-4 years.
The iPhone streaming to Mac is most likely much more about improving AR inthe future than anything to do with Mac. Mac is just an easy platform to get more users using it.
The iPhone streaming to Mac is most likely much more about improving AR inthe future than anything to do with Mac. Mac is just an easy platform to get more users using it.
This is what people _always_ forget.
Just like the new iPhone coming out this year isn't for the people who upgrade every year. It'll feel like a "spec bump".
BUT it's for the people whose phone is dropping out of support after 5-7 years of major version upgrades. For them it's a massive leap of performance and features. Just imagine jumping from an iPhone XR to an iPhone 16?
Same with the Vision Pro. Apple finally releases a Pro device that's just for Pro(sumer)s and people complain it's too expensive.
It's the first version, they see what 3rd party devs can and want to do with it and release a new one. There's a rumoured patent about headphones with an external camera for hand tracking, which is a clear evolution of the one in the Vision Pro.
Just like the new iPhone coming out this year isn't for the people who upgrade every year. It'll feel like a "spec bump".
BUT it's for the people whose phone is dropping out of support after 5-7 years of major version upgrades. For them it's a massive leap of performance and features. Just imagine jumping from an iPhone XR to an iPhone 16?
Same with the Vision Pro. Apple finally releases a Pro device that's just for Pro(sumer)s and people complain it's too expensive.
It's the first version, they see what 3rd party devs can and want to do with it and release a new one. There's a rumoured patent about headphones with an external camera for hand tracking, which is a clear evolution of the one in the Vision Pro.
Forgive me, I've been hearing that since 2010. I've been through at least a couple cycles of "but they are this time, seriously!" myself personally -- this most recent cycle was the first one the Apple inteligentsia widely agreed it wasn't worth even talking about.
Apple will never cannibalize themselves like this. There isn't event multi user support on iPad which would be something trivial to do and everyone know ipad is a family device yet here we are.
Apple should be forced to enable multiuser on iPad and iPhone.
Or you're going to kick their asses?
Let's do this!
Next time Jon Stewart talks to Lina Khan, they discuss enabling the multiuser support in all the Apple OSes. Lina then does discovery against Apple where it turns out that product managers inside of apple have been trying to do this for years, esp in markets where a device per person doesn't work, but a shared device would. Bootlicking MBAs say that news of this would get back to high margin markets and rich families would be pissed because they just bought ipads (baby sitters) for all their children.
While we are at it, once a device goes out of support, it should be fully unlocked for the user with sufficient documentation so that alternative OSes can be installed.
The hardware that is my gen1 iPad still functions perfectly.
Next time Jon Stewart talks to Lina Khan, they discuss enabling the multiuser support in all the Apple OSes. Lina then does discovery against Apple where it turns out that product managers inside of apple have been trying to do this for years, esp in markets where a device per person doesn't work, but a shared device would. Bootlicking MBAs say that news of this would get back to high margin markets and rich families would be pissed because they just bought ipads (baby sitters) for all their children.
While we are at it, once a device goes out of support, it should be fully unlocked for the user with sufficient documentation so that alternative OSes can be installed.
The hardware that is my gen1 iPad still functions perfectly.
I love having different devices for different things.
Macbook pro for coding and designing in figma and light gaming, web browsing
iPad mini for reading, travelling, sketching with apple pencil.
iPhone for doing phone things.
Sure I buy 3 devices (4 if you count apple watch) but they last several years and have decent resale value.
Macbook pro for coding and designing in figma and light gaming, web browsing
iPad mini for reading, travelling, sketching with apple pencil.
iPhone for doing phone things.
Sure I buy 3 devices (4 if you count apple watch) but they last several years and have decent resale value.
I dislike having to charge 3 or 4 different things. Also the sync is far from seamless, e.g. to annotate a pdf from the laptop, I have to send it to the tablet, annotate, then send it back.
Same reason I am not carrying a point-and-shoot, a phone, a navigation system and a pda. Same reason I use a laptop instead of multiple desktop computers.
Related question: on the pixel phones you could just run full windows in a VM, but for other devices it was "coming soon". What happened to that? I don't need convergence right now, if I can just run the desktop OS in a VM.
Same reason I am not carrying a point-and-shoot, a phone, a navigation system and a pda. Same reason I use a laptop instead of multiple desktop computers.
Related question: on the pixel phones you could just run full windows in a VM, but for other devices it was "coming soon". What happened to that? I don't need convergence right now, if I can just run the desktop OS in a VM.
When? Never heard of this
Not that hard to google, touted with android 13 e.g.
https://www.xda-developers.com/android-13-dp1-google-pixel-6...
https://www.xda-developers.com/android-13-dp1-google-pixel-6...
"Just buy an iPad/Mac"
- Tim Cook probably.
- Tim Cook probably.
I am thinking Apple would not want to cannibalize some lower end notebook sales ...
Samsung Dex is incredible, I use it with a lapdock the way I would a real laptop. Multiple windows on screen, Kb shortcuts to navigate, plus drag and drop functionality with a mouse that is unheard of in regular Android.
Has one of those Androids been capable of running Samsung Dex? I've used it on my tablet (without an external screen) with a USB dongle and I found it surprisingly competent for a lot of desktop work, if I weren't for the lack of RAM in my device.
Yes, though my current phone is a red magic 8 pro, so no DeX (or other things, good and bad). I wasn't really impressed like another comment, but admittedly I didn't spend too much time trying it since it wasn't my phone that had DeX. Though I still think I got enough data. On android, the biggest issue for me is probably the android apps themselves, what's effectively a glorified launcher that's still not quite there is a side issue. I know some people have managed to root their phones and get some sort of real linux on there (emulated?) but the actual experiences when you dig into it don't sound that great (i.e. very bad performance).
I see. I don't have that many problems with apps anymore now that Google is trying to push the tablet market again.
Samsung used to support running real Linux instead of Dex but that project was cancelled unfortunately. I don't have many problems with modern Android Dex, though, at least not ones that I also have with Windows on laptops.
Samsung used to support running real Linux instead of Dex but that project was cancelled unfortunately. I don't have many problems with modern Android Dex, though, at least not ones that I also have with Windows on laptops.
Depending on your typical tasks, convergence can work fine today: https://puri.sm/posts/my-first-year-of-librem-5-convergence/
Yeah, I'm glad some people are able to live the dream. Not for me though, the issues being terribly obsolete hardware leading to poor performance and also terrible feature parity on phone-side table stakes. I should boot and fully update my librem to see how things have progressed, it's been another paperweight in the closet. Honestly while I could rant about it, this thread's not really the place, and I'm actually not all that disappointed anyway because from the time when I pre-ordered it I convinced myself to treat it more like a donation to the cause and have zero expectations for anything personally useful to come out of it.
Meanwhile my NUC fits in my back pocket.
A device with the NUC's power and size that could have it's own battery (if external, not too huge) would be awesome.
I've always wanted a small battery in my mini PC so I could move it from place to place without a reboot of the OS.
If I had that, I probably wouldn't also get a battery-powered monitors, so I'd still need electricity to interact with the mini PC.
If I had that, I probably wouldn't also get a battery-powered monitors, so I'd still need electricity to interact with the mini PC.
This sort of fits the bill, even has its own screen.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807111740362.html
It's running a painfully weak N100 though.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807111740362.html
It's running a painfully weak N100 though.
Which model? Would you recommend?
I've seen these before and I always loved the idea of "convergence" even though its never been successful. I remember in at least 2013 when the Ubuntu Edge had a convergence feature that would blow your phone up into a (very slow) desktop PC over DisplayPort that you would then control via the phone touch screen [1].
I suspect the reason that mobile convergence hasn't been successful is that people like owning multiple devices that fit the mood you are in. My phone is for social stuff, my tablet is for entertainment stuff and my laptop is for work stuff. The thought of cramming all of those head-spaces into one device feels stressful, like putting all my eggs into one basket. I'm always very happy when I hear about updates to DeX or new convergence docks though
1:https://youtu.be/bk9-v8Sl4yU
I suspect the reason that mobile convergence hasn't been successful is that people like owning multiple devices that fit the mood you are in. My phone is for social stuff, my tablet is for entertainment stuff and my laptop is for work stuff. The thought of cramming all of those head-spaces into one device feels stressful, like putting all my eggs into one basket. I'm always very happy when I hear about updates to DeX or new convergence docks though
1:https://youtu.be/bk9-v8Sl4yU
A scooter, motorcycle, car, and delivery van all serve different purposes, though there is a little crossover between each stage.
The same is true about these devices: yes, in a pinch you can grab that document and search for something but really when editing it you want not just a keyboard and larger display, but a bit more horsepower and different apps.
So I use to think a fancy dock like this would be good, but their continued failure has taught me a lot.
The same is true about these devices: yes, in a pinch you can grab that document and search for something but really when editing it you want not just a keyboard and larger display, but a bit more horsepower and different apps.
So I use to think a fancy dock like this would be good, but their continued failure has taught me a lot.
A basic phone blows away the early computers. 40mhz one core cpus (spark, mips, 80486...) used to do a lot of work and be fast. What has changed is bloat.
We also seem to have picked up a few features along the way. Rendering screen resolutions beyond 640x480, network speeds above 9600 baud, video, displaying images that each would fill one of the hard drives of that age, video and music editing, running programs that were unthinkable in terms of features set. Clearly, inefficiencies have crept in, but it’s not as if the software today wasn’t way more capable than what we had at that time.
We had much better specs than this available at an aerospace company in the mid 90s, not to mention LAN storage and direct T1 to the internet.
I bet those cost more than today’s cellphones…
Couple thousand per, in the 90s.
lan storage at 10mbs? T1 is only 1.544 Mbps. Those are incredibly slow by today's standards
We often had 100baseT and it was quite snappy for text heavy coms and reasonably sized images from the net. 9600 was already faster than you can read, this was an order of magnitude faster. Quake deathmatch was incredible, I remember getting almost twenty folks on a server once. :D
At some point I procured a 1600x1200 monitor… but not until a later job after 2k with an SGI was my computer able to handle that resolution comfortably.
At some point I procured a 1600x1200 monitor… but not until a later job after 2k with an SGI was my computer able to handle that resolution comfortably.
> was already faster than you can read,
You make an interesting point: This *is* some sort of breakthrough point: When "average human textual input bandwidth" was matched ...
(This might be comparable to AI: Now we are trying to match "average human processing capacity" ...
You make an interesting point: This *is* some sort of breakthrough point: When "average human textual input bandwidth" was matched ...
(This might be comparable to AI: Now we are trying to match "average human processing capacity" ...
Yep, I think my first modem was 2400 baud and even that was slightly faster than I could read.
Sluggish modem websites have no one to blame but themselves.
Sluggish modem websites have no one to blame but themselves.
> images that each would fill one of the hard drives of that age
This really puts things in perspective ...
This really puts things in perspective ...
So much this. I could edit documents on my first 8088 PC with 512K memory. And people wrote novels on computers like this.
People also used to write novels on pen and paper, later typewriters, then word processors. What we have now is far, far better in every conceivable way.
I think nostalgia gives rise colored glasses when if you were to put these things side by side you’d never actually go back.
I think nostalgia gives rise colored glasses when if you were to put these things side by side you’d never actually go back.
No, what changed is our expectation of what such a device should be capable of doing. You're not gonna load a 1080p YouTube video on 400 MHz.
The parent wrote 40mhz.
You could probably do 1080p on 400mhz if you’re clever
Some would say 1080p is bloat when you can watch videos perfectly fine in lower resolution ;)
I remember when I got a 1080p monitor and watched some slightly old content (~480p) on it. The experience was very lackluster. Now I'm getting a similar feeling with a recently-bought 4k-capable laptop, and watching 720p content that looked perfectly fine on the 1080p monitor. I don't even want to think about the 480p archives. Almost makes me not want to upgrade devices.
(Can totally sée some AI-based solutions performing some heavy "interpolation" to "upsample" content in realtime ...)
That's already a thing: https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5448
I would, perhaps ...
PS. I quite distinctly remember the point in time when I finally said my then desktop machine couldn't move video, and it really was time to consider an upgrade ...
(My 500 Mhz K6 II - DAE remember those AMD chips? - had finally become too slow. Video was 'unstoppable' ...
PS. I quite distinctly remember the point in time when I finally said my then desktop machine couldn't move video, and it really was time to consider an upgrade ...
(My 500 Mhz K6 II - DAE remember those AMD chips? - had finally become too slow. Video was 'unstoppable' ...
Sometimes I still find the need to write a lot on a phone and it's thumb typing in a touch mobile device that frustrates me the most. I believe a good add-on keyboard, preferably just as portable as the phone, would have more use cases than a hollow laptop that can be just as big (and similarly less convenient) as a normal laptop.
I understand there's basically no market for them but I loved slide out keyboards. I miss the keyboard on my Motorola Droid daily.
> believe a good add-on keyboard, preferably just as portable as the phone,
Sure.-
(But "good" and "portable" [keyboard] are antagonistic here ...
... maybe, perhaps, someday, one of these "newfangled" projected keyboards, chord keyboards, one-handed keyboards, foldable keyboards ...
... will hit the mainstream.-
Sure.-
(But "good" and "portable" [keyboard] are antagonistic here ...
... maybe, perhaps, someday, one of these "newfangled" projected keyboards, chord keyboards, one-handed keyboards, foldable keyboards ...
... will hit the mainstream.-
We need different types of vehicles for all those things because they cover use cases with different storage capacity and performance requirements. This seems less true for cellphones now.
> I suspect the reason that mobile convergence hasn't been successful is that people like owning multiple devices that fit the mood you are in. My phone is for social stuff, my tablet is for entertainment stuff and my laptop is for work stuff.
Nah, I used to think the same thing about desktop vs laptop but turns out once laptops got good enough to be a true desktop replacement it was much better to just have one device. Phones aren't there yet, even if the raw processor speed numbers suggest they should be.
Nah, I used to think the same thing about desktop vs laptop but turns out once laptops got good enough to be a true desktop replacement it was much better to just have one device. Phones aren't there yet, even if the raw processor speed numbers suggest they should be.
> people like owning multiple devices that fit the mood
Agree this is a big factor, but with peripherals to extend your smartphone into a laptop you do still have to own multiple “devices” (discrete units of physical hardware). If you’re already gonna have to lug around a dongle/adapter and one or more pieces of hardware (mouse, keyboard, screen) to get the laptop experience, you might as well just lug around an entire laptop.
Also, “cloud” software (not just things like Google docs, but the widespread use of web applications allowing you to log in to some app from anywhere) has solved a lot of the biggest problems in this space. You can easily access all the important things on your phone from a laptop, unless you go out of your way to not upload something somewhere. So being able to convert a smartphone into a laptop is mostly about saving money on hardware (which may not be that much. Do you pay $200 for peripherals to get an underpowered laptop powered by a phone, or a mid-like laptop?) or addressing a very niche UX need.
Agree this is a big factor, but with peripherals to extend your smartphone into a laptop you do still have to own multiple “devices” (discrete units of physical hardware). If you’re already gonna have to lug around a dongle/adapter and one or more pieces of hardware (mouse, keyboard, screen) to get the laptop experience, you might as well just lug around an entire laptop.
Also, “cloud” software (not just things like Google docs, but the widespread use of web applications allowing you to log in to some app from anywhere) has solved a lot of the biggest problems in this space. You can easily access all the important things on your phone from a laptop, unless you go out of your way to not upload something somewhere. So being able to convert a smartphone into a laptop is mostly about saving money on hardware (which may not be that much. Do you pay $200 for peripherals to get an underpowered laptop powered by a phone, or a mid-like laptop?) or addressing a very niche UX need.
The last generation of Windows Phone had convergence that provided a version of this. Allowed you to run UWP apps on a Windows desktop. But like many things in the Windows phone universe, it was simultaneously 10 years ahead and 10 years behind.
I miss the thing all the time.
I miss the thing all the time.
There was also a dock for your Windows Phone that granted a desktop UI and allowed for light MS Office usage. Used it a couple of times in a pinch.
> was simultaneously 10 years ahead and 10 years behind.
This is a great way to put it. "Recipes" were ahead of their time, but half-baked ...
This is a great way to put it. "Recipes" were ahead of their time, but half-baked ...
I see a an increasing number of people around me using phone only for stuff they absolutely need to carry around – payment/banking, loyalty cards, 2FA, maps. Maybe also some pure messaging app, some puzzle game, but that's it. No any social media, news, work etc.
Now that you mention it, that's a good way to think about it.
Of all the things on my phone, the only thing I feel like I absolutely can't live without (in my phone) is my OneBusAway app that tells me when my next bus is coming.
Also: /shameless-plug-for-free-and-awesome-app :)
Of all the things on my phone, the only thing I feel like I absolutely can't live without (in my phone) is my OneBusAway app that tells me when my next bus is coming.
Also: /shameless-plug-for-free-and-awesome-app :)
Two (diverging, yet simultaneous) tendencies: "The phone as a glorified wallet" and "The phone as your life". Both at play ...
For me, it’s that I don’t have a monitor on hand to plug my phone into. And if I’m going to plan to bring a monitor, shit, I’ll just bring my laptop anyway.
Yes, Samsung has had their "Dex" which looks just like NexDock.
Modern Motorola phones have a similar feature.
VNC has been around for a long time.
It just seems like something people don't want to use. I'm not sure why, though?
Modern Motorola phones have a similar feature.
VNC has been around for a long time.
It just seems like something people don't want to use. I'm not sure why, though?
the real convergence will happen eventually, when Google merges Android with ChromeOS and we will get the worst of both worlds
Luckily, it will include FSL-Fuchsia Subsystem for Linux. Enabling it will block Netflix and YouTube though.
Convergence should work fine from modern desktop Linux: you should be able to attach a tiny, phone-sized screen to any SBC or mini-PC and run a mobile-focused experience (such as Phosh or Gnome-Mobile) and it should just work. Attach a bigger external monitor and apps should just scale up seamlessly. This will get quite interesting with the newer device form factor of handheld consoles running x86-64 hardware, since they too have a roughly phone-sized screen that usually supports touch input, as well as analog sticks that might be readily usable for pointer movement or scrolling, and lots of physical buttons that might be usable for gestures or chorded input.
> Convergence should work fine from modern desktop Linux: you should be able to attach a tiny, phone-sized screen to any SBC or mini-PC and run a mobile-focused experience (such as Phosh or Gnome-Mobile) and it should just work. Attach a bigger external monitor and apps should just scale up seamlessly.
My Pinephone Pro runs Plasma Mobile and yeah you can just plug it in to a USB-C dock with HDMI out and a mouse+keyboard plugged in and it scales up into a slightly odd desktop:)
My Pinephone Pro runs Plasma Mobile and yeah you can just plug it in to a USB-C dock with HDMI out and a mouse+keyboard plugged in and it scales up into a slightly odd desktop:)
There was a meme a while back - my most millennial trait is that big purchases must happen on a big screen”.
My brother is a zoomer and the only computing device in his house is his mobile phone and work laptop. He does absolutely everything on his phone. I think we’re moving away from separated devices, honestly
My brother is a zoomer and the only computing device in his house is his mobile phone and work laptop. He does absolutely everything on his phone. I think we’re moving away from separated devices, honestly
I feel like it highly depends on what people are doing with a device: if there're only a consumer (of digital content or physical product), only owning and using a smartphone is fine. However for creating things (writing a PhD thesis, making a game, editing horizontal video) a PC is still required.
If we want to quantify every exception sure. We've moved away from mainframe devices but that doesn't mean none exist. We've moved away from Windows XP but that doesn't mean that they don't exist.
It wouldn't be hard to trigger DEX/desktop enviroment to load a different profile. I feel like most hardware companies don't want to eat away at different segments.
(Along those lines, some phones have a "second" or "secret" profile/mode that is accessible through a different PIN code at the lockscreen, for example ...)
Not really. Let's look at Bell's Law from 1972 to understand this:
"Roughly every decade a new, lower priced computer class forms based on a new programming platform, network, and interface resulting in new usage and a new industry."
So we can say, generally, mainframes, minicomputers, workstations, microcomputers, laptops, smart phones, and now wearables (watches, rings, wallets, bracelets, glasses, etc)
Next we'll have something I'll call the Mckenzie corollary (that's me I guess):
"Roughly a decade or two after introduction, the lower price computer class will subsume the upper price computing class."
So the minicomputers took on mainframe tasks. The workstations took on the minicomputer tasks. The microcomputers took on the workstation tasks. Laptops took on the micros. All this happened with a significant lag time.
And now, the smartphones are vying for the laptops.
These are superstructural transformations and take years because a bunch of new things need to be invented, developed, mastered and widely deployed for it to happen.
We are roughly in the wearables and phones-become-laptops epoch.
"Roughly every decade a new, lower priced computer class forms based on a new programming platform, network, and interface resulting in new usage and a new industry."
So we can say, generally, mainframes, minicomputers, workstations, microcomputers, laptops, smart phones, and now wearables (watches, rings, wallets, bracelets, glasses, etc)
Next we'll have something I'll call the Mckenzie corollary (that's me I guess):
"Roughly a decade or two after introduction, the lower price computer class will subsume the upper price computing class."
So the minicomputers took on mainframe tasks. The workstations took on the minicomputer tasks. The microcomputers took on the workstation tasks. Laptops took on the micros. All this happened with a significant lag time.
And now, the smartphones are vying for the laptops.
These are superstructural transformations and take years because a bunch of new things need to be invented, developed, mastered and widely deployed for it to happen.
We are roughly in the wearables and phones-become-laptops epoch.
Let's look at The Poverty of Historicism from 1944 to understand why you can't predict societal change with laws.
"[The evolution of] human society, is a unique historical process ... Its description, however, is not a law, but only a singular historical statement."
"[The evolution of] human society, is a unique historical process ... Its description, however, is not a law, but only a singular historical statement."
Karl Popper was being a logician about it. People aren't claiming supernatural powers with market trend analysis like some Helena Blavatsky of electronics or that these "laws" hold like thermodynamics.
If it's been good for 60 years so that might continue or maybe something unexpected will happen.
Popper's piecemeal alternative predicts nothing. The market trend analysis is at least accurate > 0% of the time. It's a non-scientific process with unquantifiable accuracy but it is empirically non-zero. For instance, Geofferey Moore's adoption curves proposed in 1991 are widely found but, every now and then, the galloping animal is a zebra. This doesn't mean you shouldn't plan for horses.
Presuming a decade or two from now people will connect their wearables powered by kinetic charging to foldable e-paper with a transparent solar panel layer is just a bet.
Maybe something radical will happen instead: The public payphone will come back as a public computer that people will biometrically log into after shunning personal electronics as toxic spy machines ruining society. Eh, probably not, but maybe.
If it's been good for 60 years so that might continue or maybe something unexpected will happen.
Popper's piecemeal alternative predicts nothing. The market trend analysis is at least accurate > 0% of the time. It's a non-scientific process with unquantifiable accuracy but it is empirically non-zero. For instance, Geofferey Moore's adoption curves proposed in 1991 are widely found but, every now and then, the galloping animal is a zebra. This doesn't mean you shouldn't plan for horses.
Presuming a decade or two from now people will connect their wearables powered by kinetic charging to foldable e-paper with a transparent solar panel layer is just a bet.
Maybe something radical will happen instead: The public payphone will come back as a public computer that people will biometrically log into after shunning personal electronics as toxic spy machines ruining society. Eh, probably not, but maybe.
> every now and then, the galloping animal is a zebra. This doesn't mean you shouldn't plan for horses.
With permission, I am going to put that on a t-shirt :)
With permission, I am going to put that on a t-shirt :)
I'm not that brilliant! I borrowed it from medical slang https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebra_(medicine)
So steal away
So steal away
Appreciated.
(As is the intellectual honesty :)
(As is the intellectual honesty :)
> The low end always eats the high end.
The low end eventually becomes a satisfiable alternative for price sensitive consumers and may become the majority market if _consumer preferences follow_.
That's important. Even more expensive brands in the purely functional space like Tektronix, DeWalt and Zojirushi can still command a preference and not for the same reason as Patek Philippe or Christian Louboutin.
Also when preferences aren't considered, the base observation can become rather risky.
For example, it implies a majority of American cars will eventually be electric microcars like the Wuling Hongguang Mini EV or Chery QQ Ice Cream because:
1. Most cars on the road were bought used and these cars cost less than a used car.
2. The battery efficiency of the smaller vehicle means you can charge it without special hardware in reasonable time.
3. The vehicle speed and range are increasingly adequate to satisfy most consumers needs.
Do I think an EV microcar revolution is coming to the US? No. There's zero evidence of that. American consumer preferences would need to change first.
Fickle human behavior is an X factor in any market.
Preferences can change however. Pretend Apple comes out with iCar, a sleek electric microcar or Costco introduces Kirkland CarTwo, a practical second car that charges in a few hours on a normal outlet. Perfect for teenagers and easy to park in small spaces. Cost? $89/month for 48 months.
I basically just pitched the Geely Panda Mini EV or a number of similar cars which have been in production for years. The tech is here. The American preferences are not. Not yet.
That's important. Even more expensive brands in the purely functional space like Tektronix, DeWalt and Zojirushi can still command a preference and not for the same reason as Patek Philippe or Christian Louboutin.
Also when preferences aren't considered, the base observation can become rather risky.
For example, it implies a majority of American cars will eventually be electric microcars like the Wuling Hongguang Mini EV or Chery QQ Ice Cream because:
1. Most cars on the road were bought used and these cars cost less than a used car.
2. The battery efficiency of the smaller vehicle means you can charge it without special hardware in reasonable time.
3. The vehicle speed and range are increasingly adequate to satisfy most consumers needs.
Do I think an EV microcar revolution is coming to the US? No. There's zero evidence of that. American consumer preferences would need to change first.
Fickle human behavior is an X factor in any market.
Preferences can change however. Pretend Apple comes out with iCar, a sleek electric microcar or Costco introduces Kirkland CarTwo, a practical second car that charges in a few hours on a normal outlet. Perfect for teenagers and easy to park in small spaces. Cost? $89/month for 48 months.
I basically just pitched the Geely Panda Mini EV or a number of similar cars which have been in production for years. The tech is here. The American preferences are not. Not yet.
I like your analysis.
I'd like to ignore American Consumer Preferences and talk about engineering examples.
Linux/OSS/MySQL: These were seen as toy alternatives to the real thing. Linux eventually displaced all the proprietary Unix operating systems. And it still isn't at feature parity with some of those OSes decades later.
Same goes for X86 and Arm.
High margin stagnant businesses often get consumed by a toy entrant that crosses that inflection point where it does what it needs to do for 20% of price. When the cost of something is less than your margin, you are screwed.
On the ACP in regards to vehicles. Americans have been conned into liking low-end vehicles wrapped in a high-end sheen. SUVs are high margin vehicles partially because they are cheap pickup trucks. US auto manufacturers got their asses handed to them imports from Japan, where people did prefer smaller, lighter more efficient vehicles. There was then an effort across all auto companies to change the tastes of US car buyers so that foreign vehicles couldn't compete.
# Semantic Scholar links for the paper, "Experimental evidence for tipping points in social convention"
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Experimental-evidence-...
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Supplementary-Material...
----
Evolution of opinions on social networks in the presence of competing committed groups
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22448238/
I'd like to ignore American Consumer Preferences and talk about engineering examples.
Linux/OSS/MySQL: These were seen as toy alternatives to the real thing. Linux eventually displaced all the proprietary Unix operating systems. And it still isn't at feature parity with some of those OSes decades later.
Same goes for X86 and Arm.
High margin stagnant businesses often get consumed by a toy entrant that crosses that inflection point where it does what it needs to do for 20% of price. When the cost of something is less than your margin, you are screwed.
On the ACP in regards to vehicles. Americans have been conned into liking low-end vehicles wrapped in a high-end sheen. SUVs are high margin vehicles partially because they are cheap pickup trucks. US auto manufacturers got their asses handed to them imports from Japan, where people did prefer smaller, lighter more efficient vehicles. There was then an effort across all auto companies to change the tastes of US car buyers so that foreign vehicles couldn't compete.
# Semantic Scholar links for the paper, "Experimental evidence for tipping points in social convention"
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Experimental-evidence-...
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Supplementary-Material...
----
Evolution of opinions on social networks in the presence of competing committed groups
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22448238/
Linux is a different story.
I've got an hour long talk with about 70 or so slides that talk about it
https://siliconfolklore.com/linux-corrections
I've got an hour long talk with about 70 or so slides that talk about it
https://siliconfolklore.com/linux-corrections
> and widely deployed for it to happen.
(And, don't forget, "mass adopted" ...)
(And, don't forget, "mass adopted" ...)
Super book was another example of these type of devices which never got to market. Had the chance to play with the foldable devices and thought they are actually pretty great.
I think these type of formats are decent for travelers.
I think these type of formats are decent for travelers.
I've got a Samsung Android phone that I tried with a DisplayLink dock for browsing. It was able to use the Ethernet OOTB, but browsing was PAINFUL. The responsiveness is/was not there.
I always liked the idea that rather than your phone being the powerhouse for a laptop or desktop environment that it instead be a receptacle for data.
If only there were a standardized protocol enabling browsers (could be any smart terminal protocol, but browsers exist now, and would mostly work) to securely connect to nearby devices, maybe even require a physical connection if you want extra safety.
Then instead of a specific dock you could use just about any capable laptop or desktop as an environment.
I don't think it can be done at the moment without an on-internet intermediary. A local discovery and connection system that the terminal(browser) could be aware of. Maybe this could be shoehorned into existing systems like Bluetooth.
You could get an absurd usb connection working if the phone appeared as both a file store as well as a keyboard that types in the commands to launch itself. I see no potential pitfalls with that approach.
If only there were a standardized protocol enabling browsers (could be any smart terminal protocol, but browsers exist now, and would mostly work) to securely connect to nearby devices, maybe even require a physical connection if you want extra safety.
Then instead of a specific dock you could use just about any capable laptop or desktop as an environment.
I don't think it can be done at the moment without an on-internet intermediary. A local discovery and connection system that the terminal(browser) could be aware of. Maybe this could be shoehorned into existing systems like Bluetooth.
You could get an absurd usb connection working if the phone appeared as both a file store as well as a keyboard that types in the commands to launch itself. I see no potential pitfalls with that approach.
avahi/bonjour for discovery, vnc served up over http for UI. Intel proposed a box with Ethernet over USB for this a long time ago but it never caught on.
Meh, it works fine for me. You can also use work profile (island app) to segment your phone a bit further.
I really love DeX and I just spent a whole week working with it as my primary computing device. I don't have a mobile dock though. The reason being that they're not an awful lot cheaper or lighter than a real laptop so what's the point.
I really love DeX and I just spent a whole week working with it as my primary computing device. I don't have a mobile dock though. The reason being that they're not an awful lot cheaper or lighter than a real laptop so what's the point.
> they're not an awful lot cheaper or lighter than a real laptop so what's the point.
True. Probably one of the biggest obstacles to adoption. Their price point pretty much overlaps with an entry-level laptop.-
True. Probably one of the biggest obstacles to adoption. Their price point pretty much overlaps with an entry-level laptop.-
> that people like owning multiple devices that fit the mood you are in
Sounds reasonable.-
PS. As a counterpoint to that, many will I am sure remember how one PC *was* everything and one did everything on it. One per household, even ...
Sounds reasonable.-
PS. As a counterpoint to that, many will I am sure remember how one PC *was* everything and one did everything on it. One per household, even ...
Convergence happened already, I'm logged into the same apps from any device and have access to mostly the same files and functionality through the cloud.
I've had a NexDock for about 7 years or so. Definitely a nice tool to have. I don't really have a normal laptop besides my work laptop anymore. I primarily just use my NexDock with either my phone or my Steam Deck. I've also used the dock with Raspberry Pis in the past.
The older model that I have has a pretty terrible trackpad, does not have a touch screen, and does not fold back (I normally use my ergonomic keyboard with it). I think these are all resolved in newer models though.
The older model that I have has a pretty terrible trackpad, does not have a touch screen, and does not fold back (I normally use my ergonomic keyboard with it). I think these are all resolved in newer models though.
I have one of the originals too, I only use it in an emergency (e.g. maintaining a Raspberry Pi) because the trackpad is so awful - I can't type on it because the cursor jumps all over the place.
That basically shattered my dream of leaving my work laptop at home on short business trips. Well, that and it weighs as much as a laptop anyway so there wasn't actually a benefit.
That basically shattered my dream of leaving my work laptop at home on short business trips. Well, that and it weighs as much as a laptop anyway so there wasn't actually a benefit.
Hadn’t thought of the steam deck as an option, how do you find it?
I've just been using a small folding bluetooth keyboard and a mini-bluetooth mouse. Both are easy to carry around and fit in pockets. I find the steam deck's screen large enough to use on its own, although sometimes I plug it into an external monitor over HDMI.
I use an overlay of /usr to add things to make the steam deck more useful.
Can you elaborate on your /usr overlay? I haven't gone very far with modifying my software setup on the Steam Deck, but I have been considering it for a while.
Ummm sure. Basically I didn't want to irrecoverably screw up my steam deck. So, I setup a partition on the SD card and pointed a /usr overlay at it.
Idea being that every once in a while I pop out the SD card, run the standard steam update, then wipe the overlay and reinstall the stuff I was using (I have a script to make that more convenient). If it seems I really did somehow mess up their setup beyond repair I can just remove the card, reboot (I did do that once, but I don't think it was my fault).
Main issue I've run into is the fact that Valve upstream repo is a hackish snapshot of Arch that is not maintained and was not entirely consistent at time of creation and is using old gpg keys. So, while 95% of stuff installs using it, there's 5% that requires installing while ignoring the signature and just trusting valve's server, or pulling in an older lib (I symlinked in one from valve's steam runtime once).
The other not-ideal thing about Valve is they really don't prioritise security patching, at all. It's astounding given the device does have an sshd running. Not to mention older problems like wifi vulnerabilities. Fortunately the recent ssh cve has a config workaround, or I'd probably just force-install an sshd from arch instead, or disable starting at boot.
... oh and pulling in new signatures for people does help sometimes. pacman -S archlinux-keyring , pacman-key / --populate / --refresh-keys /-r [email protected] ... and since /etc persists during updates, sometimes you have to tell pacman to --overwrite since a prior install might still exist there. You could work around that by backing up /etc but, eh, it hasn't been a problem so far :D - there were no collisions on first install to /etc for any of them, so I assume everything was playing nice with existing valve /etc. And, well, valve did make that directory writeable ...
mount -t overlay -o "lowerdir=/usr,upperdir=/run/media/OVERLAY/overlay/usr,workdir=/run/media/OVERLAY/workdir/usr" none /usr
Idea being that every once in a while I pop out the SD card, run the standard steam update, then wipe the overlay and reinstall the stuff I was using (I have a script to make that more convenient). If it seems I really did somehow mess up their setup beyond repair I can just remove the card, reboot (I did do that once, but I don't think it was my fault).
Main issue I've run into is the fact that Valve upstream repo is a hackish snapshot of Arch that is not maintained and was not entirely consistent at time of creation and is using old gpg keys. So, while 95% of stuff installs using it, there's 5% that requires installing while ignoring the signature and just trusting valve's server, or pulling in an older lib (I symlinked in one from valve's steam runtime once).
The other not-ideal thing about Valve is they really don't prioritise security patching, at all. It's astounding given the device does have an sshd running. Not to mention older problems like wifi vulnerabilities. Fortunately the recent ssh cve has a config workaround, or I'd probably just force-install an sshd from arch instead, or disable starting at boot.
... oh and pulling in new signatures for people does help sometimes. pacman -S archlinux-keyring , pacman-key / --populate / --refresh-keys /-r [email protected] ... and since /etc persists during updates, sometimes you have to tell pacman to --overwrite since a prior install might still exist there. You could work around that by backing up /etc but, eh, it hasn't been a problem so far :D - there were no collisions on first install to /etc for any of them, so I assume everything was playing nice with existing valve /etc. And, well, valve did make that directory writeable ...
Not op, I have the previous model with the keyboard, and it works well but a bit janky: the screen and the keyboard are pretty good, the combination of touch screen e touchpad make it usable without a mouse for most workload.
I use it for anything, gaming, web surfing, developing and sometimes even work (it does raise a few eyebrows when I take it out of the bag)
The big problem is the connection between nextdock and steamdeck: if I connect it directly via single usb-c cable I lose the ability to charge the steamdeck (the nextdock does not supply enough energy for keeping the steamdeck charged) and I also lose a lot of io (next dock as only one fullsize usb 3.0 port) so instead I use the steam-deck-dock and connect it to the nextdock with two cable (hdmi e usb) so that I can keep the steamdeck fully charged.
I would love to find an usb-c cable splitter so that I can have a device simultaneously connected to an usb-c pd charger and a second connection only for usb data, there are some but none of them support usb alt mode necessary to use external screen.
I use it for anything, gaming, web surfing, developing and sometimes even work (it does raise a few eyebrows when I take it out of the bag)
The big problem is the connection between nextdock and steamdeck: if I connect it directly via single usb-c cable I lose the ability to charge the steamdeck (the nextdock does not supply enough energy for keeping the steamdeck charged) and I also lose a lot of io (next dock as only one fullsize usb 3.0 port) so instead I use the steam-deck-dock and connect it to the nextdock with two cable (hdmi e usb) so that I can keep the steamdeck fully charged.
I would love to find an usb-c cable splitter so that I can have a device simultaneously connected to an usb-c pd charger and a second connection only for usb data, there are some but none of them support usb alt mode necessary to use external screen.
WRT splitter. I've just been using a mini hub from Anker with pass-through charging. I keep it in the battery bag for my steam deck case. Also handy if I need to plug in an extra SD card.
I can obviously only use it with ample desk space for both the dock and the Deck, but for my use case (usually visiting family or my local maker space) desk space is not an issue. As for the experience of using it, it just feels like it's a reasonably spec'd gaming laptop when I use it with the Deck.
> use my NexDock with either my phone or my Steam Deck.
Indeed. What a combo ...
Indeed. What a combo ...
what keyboard?
Huh. It's a lot cheaper than I expected it to be. Only $300.
Might be kinda useful if the pendulum swings back towards actually storing all your data on your own devices instead of in the clown. And if anyone starts writing actual tools for Desktop Android.
Might be kinda useful if the pendulum swings back towards actually storing all your data on your own devices instead of in the clown. And if anyone starts writing actual tools for Desktop Android.
> clown
That's the best typo ever, I had an extension for chrome many years ago that allowed to replace "cloud" with a different word for funsies because it was used everywhere, might ressurect it using clown.
That's the best typo ever, I had an extension for chrome many years ago that allowed to replace "cloud" with a different word for funsies because it was used everywhere, might ressurect it using clown.
I'm not sure it is a typo. I have been calling it 'the clown' or 'the clod' for years. So I suspect others have been too.
This is like the nerd version of rule 34.
Deliberate. I’m working on a comic set in a dystopia run by AIs that have decided that “cartoon clowns” are the best way to tell humans what to do.
Gosh. "Clown Devices" :)
PS. Actually, it might be a good word for "self hosted cloud" setups, where you "[c]loud [own] (as in, 'ownership')" your data and infra is under user control ...
PS. Actually, it might be a good word for "self hosted cloud" setups, where you "[c]loud [own] (as in, 'ownership')" your data and infra is under user control ...
I have 7" touch screen waiting me to attach a pi4 to make a proper portable Linux device I can travel with. Laptops too big and the GPD tiny ones too expensive for me. I can't use anything smaller than 7" and don't want bigger than 10" for convenience.
Less than $200 can have "ideal" setup.
7''/8'' is indeed some sort of sweet spot.-
(I was doing "portable" using a then-huge 8'' 'generic android phablet' with a foldable Bluetooth keyboard a few years back ...)
(I was doing "portable" using a then-huge 8'' 'generic android phablet' with a foldable Bluetooth keyboard a few years back ...)
You can swing your own pendulum any time you want, there are very few services (email being one IMO) that aren't worth self-hosting.
You can easily sync your media to a server you own (Immich or NextCloud), Notes can live in Obsidian, which syncs to a place you control etc.
You can easily sync your media to a server you own (Immich or NextCloud), Notes can live in Obsidian, which syncs to a place you control etc.
More like "turns your smartphone into a smartphone with a keyboard and a bigger screen."
No matter how much RAM, storage, or CPU power it has, a smartphone is ultimately still a locked-down media consumption device.
No matter how much RAM, storage, or CPU power it has, a smartphone is ultimately still a locked-down media consumption device.
That's not universal; mine runs termux or a chroot in a pinch.
Must be annoying in Google maps
What? Termux sits next to the normal Android system, it's completely orthogonal to using Google apps.
If your criteria of "not locked down" is being able to run a full-ass IDE on your phone, then maybe.
But if using a Web-IDE via a browser[0] is enough for you, we're already there. You do need to adjust how you work, and that's a huge sticking point for some people.
[0] https://vscode.dev
But if using a Web-IDE via a browser[0] is enough for you, we're already there. You do need to adjust how you work, and that's a huge sticking point for some people.
[0] https://vscode.dev
But if using a Web-IDE via a browser
...and be constantly tied to the clown? No thank you.
...and be constantly tied to the clown? No thank you.
Exactly this. I want an x86_64 phone with a completely open motherboard and modem that permits any version of Linux. The modem must be accessed by a kernel module that is reviewed and approved by Linus without triggering a harsh email. No telemetry, back doors, lawful intercept, talking to the cloud without my explicit request to do so. SELinux policies and a policy generator and sandbox that profiles applications on the fly and gives me exactly what the app is asking to do in detail, not what the developer says it does or needs. If the app changes behavior, the profile generator and sandbox alert me to the change and will not permit the change until I review and approve it.
Unless you’re a paranoid luddite, your phone is tied to the clown every day anyway.
The clown can be your own computer in this case, you can self-host the vscode server if you want. The you’re the clown.
The clown can be your own computer in this case, you can self-host the vscode server if you want. The you’re the clown.
Except if it's a GNU/Linux phone already running a desktop OS, like Librem 5.
15 years ago something like this was sold for my Moto Atrix
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Atrix_4G#Accessories
Never bought but seemed interesting at the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Atrix_4G#Accessories
Never bought but seemed interesting at the time.
I got one of the lapdocks for the Atrix a few years after the Atrix because you could hook it up to a Raspberry Pi and it'd work. Broke the HDMI port at some point though, mini HDMI is just too fragile.
I still have one that I use as a raspberry Pi workstation, and yeah .. you have to maintain those cables.
Still, a great device to have around a pile of rPi's.
Although, I do prefer to just use my external LCD monitor .. far less likely to destroy the cables.
Still, a great device to have around a pile of rPi's.
Although, I do prefer to just use my external LCD monitor .. far less likely to destroy the cables.
I wanted an Atrix so bad when I saw it announced. Alas, I was a broke college student
Look at the UI on that thing! Right before we started to flatten all UI design into bland shapes!
Actual buttons :)
Nice phone.-
Nice phone.-
I understand the limitations resulting from differences in form factor between different smartphone models that make the idea impractical, but it's too bad these docks aren't designed for the phone to slot into them, Duo Dock[0] style. That'd be super slick.
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_Duo#Docking_stations
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_Duo#Docking_stations
I don't see why it's impractical. Just have a soft spring loaded clamp, like universal car phone mounts. Maybe it would be hard to line up the USBC port?
I love the idea of lapdocks. I've just never found one that has a good keyboard, trackpad, and screen, at the same time. There are those with good keyboards, and those with good screens, but not both, and never a good trackpad. (I guess I've been spoiled by using Apple Force Touch trackpads for years.)
My use case is actually accessing my desktop from bed. I ended up using something called an "overbed table" (with tilt adjust!) with a monitor arm on it. Monitor goes on the arm, peripherals go on the table. That way, I can mix and match into something I like.
But it's not really the same as a real lapdock, because it depends on the table. I can't easily move it around the room or anything. I can't use it in my lap, only on the table that floats above me. (I prefer the table in most cases, but the lap is sometimes useful.)
It'd be nice if I could easily move it between my bed and a real desk, for example. If on the table there were a lapdock I could simply pick it up, but with separate peripherals I cannot.
My use case is actually accessing my desktop from bed. I ended up using something called an "overbed table" (with tilt adjust!) with a monitor arm on it. Monitor goes on the arm, peripherals go on the table. That way, I can mix and match into something I like.
But it's not really the same as a real lapdock, because it depends on the table. I can't easily move it around the room or anything. I can't use it in my lap, only on the table that floats above me. (I prefer the table in most cases, but the lap is sometimes useful.)
It'd be nice if I could easily move it between my bed and a real desk, for example. If on the table there were a lapdock I could simply pick it up, but with separate peripherals I cannot.
This device is much less about phones, for me. I've never used mine with a phone. It's a type-c monitor with an integrated keyboard and pointing device.
it's like a portable physical console in a laptop form factor. I carry it around and plug it into Raspberry Pis (via HDMI, not type-c alone) so I can get a physical console. I have a few smaller single board computers that I occasionally use it with as well. It folds completely backwards so you can use it as a monitor alone, if you want, and I do that with my MacBook so it's a 2nd monitor (or 3rd depending on where I am) and it's great.
It's just a single type-c cable to give the Steam Deck a keyboard and a larger, higher resolution screen, for games that don't do well with controller inputs. Plug in a mouse, turn off the trackpad, and you're gold.
This is far more than just a "turn your phone into a desktop" thing.
it's like a portable physical console in a laptop form factor. I carry it around and plug it into Raspberry Pis (via HDMI, not type-c alone) so I can get a physical console. I have a few smaller single board computers that I occasionally use it with as well. It folds completely backwards so you can use it as a monitor alone, if you want, and I do that with my MacBook so it's a 2nd monitor (or 3rd depending on where I am) and it's great.
It's just a single type-c cable to give the Steam Deck a keyboard and a larger, higher resolution screen, for games that don't do well with controller inputs. Plug in a mouse, turn off the trackpad, and you're gold.
This is far more than just a "turn your phone into a desktop" thing.
This appeals to us hackers, but it doesn’t really make that much practical sense, I think.
The SOC and storage you’re saving by using your phone aren’t the most expensive items. A good 14” screen, keyboard, trackpad and battery aren’t cheap. And if you’re paying $300 for them, you might as well throw in a few hundred dollars more and get a full laptop.
The SOC and storage you’re saving by using your phone aren’t the most expensive items. A good 14” screen, keyboard, trackpad and battery aren’t cheap. And if you’re paying $300 for them, you might as well throw in a few hundred dollars more and get a full laptop.
For low-income users who don't already own a desktop, I think it can make quite good sense. A "good" keyboard/mouse/monitor/etc. are not strictly necessary, and if you can't afford new ones, used ones can be had for extremely cheap or even free often times, like from garage sales, thrift shops, friends etc. And most of those people have a phone already, so adding the peripherals is not a big cost for them, but a full size desktop likely would be.
I can get a working LCD screen, keyboard and mouse from my local thrift shop for $20, whereas the cheapest new laptop is at least $200.
I can get a working LCD screen, keyboard and mouse from my local thrift shop for $20, whereas the cheapest new laptop is at least $200.
I am curious how many people even own a personal desktop/laptop anymore. I imagine that more and more people do everything on a phone or maybe a tablet. Are past peak PC?
> Are past peak PC?
Very much so. For a number of years already.
Very much so. For a number of years already.
> used ones can be had for extremely cheap or even free often times, like from garage sales, thrift shops, friends etc. And most of those people have a phone already
What you described is actually an use case. Hadn't considered the 'second hand' peripheral options ...
What you described is actually an use case. Hadn't considered the 'second hand' peripheral options ...
I've just been using a Samser Bluetooth foldable keyboard/trackpad with my iPhone (or iPad). It's great.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0C1VSRZ59/
You don't get the large display, but you get a full keyboard/trackpad for $50 at Amazon. It's great when I'm on the road or traveling and need to write stuff on Google Docs. I don't bring my laptop when I travel -- just my phone, iPad and a keyboard like the above. I get to travel really light.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0C1VSRZ59/
You don't get the large display, but you get a full keyboard/trackpad for $50 at Amazon. It's great when I'm on the road or traveling and need to write stuff on Google Docs. I don't bring my laptop when I travel -- just my phone, iPad and a keyboard like the above. I get to travel really light.
I have the same setup but for large screen I have the xreal glasses. Still travel very light but big screen when I need one.
I would use mine a lot more if it supported power delivery passthru. That it doesn't kind of limits it's uses to an emergency kvm for my homelab and SBCs.
I've been bothering them about this since Steam Deck first launched, if it could actually pass thru full USB-C PD it would be insanely useful. Portable gaming device that can be converted into a fully functional laptop easily (with a second screen!) is a long time dream of mine. But it can't do the ~40w charging the Deck needs. Also the touchpad is complete garbage as it was designed for use with phones.
Sadly, NexDock doesn't design their own products and has little influence over engineering decisions of their partners. They're just slapping their logo on it and reselling it. There's a dozen other brands selling the exact same product on Alibaba/Taobao.
Sadly, NexDock doesn't design their own products and has little influence over engineering decisions of their partners. They're just slapping their logo on it and reselling it. There's a dozen other brands selling the exact same product on Alibaba/Taobao.
Reminds me of the Neptune Duo[0], which sadly never became a thing. And the ASUS Padfone[1] which barely did. Would've loved to get my hands especially on the former. Actually still would even today, as it would really reduce the waste of having multiple smart devices that inevitably reach EoL with lots of still-working parts. Looking at my nonfunctional ASUS Transformer[2] that served me so well in college years ago, with its phenomenal battery life (keyboard dock also has a battery), and I still have hope I can get it repaired and use it again, even if only as an e-reader.
[0] https://www.cnet.com/reviews/neptune-duo-preview/ [1] https://m.gsmarena.com/asus_padfone-3965.php [2] https://m.gsmarena.com/asus_transformer_tf101-3936.php
[0] https://www.cnet.com/reviews/neptune-duo-preview/ [1] https://m.gsmarena.com/asus_padfone-3965.php [2] https://m.gsmarena.com/asus_transformer_tf101-3936.php
Is Samsung still supporting Dex well? I remember a few years ago when I had a sudden [work] laptop fail during the pandemic and couldn’t get a new one until it was shipped out. My work phone was a Galaxy S20 and I was able to Dex my way into the corpnet and basically get by for a week. It was shocking and amazing, and yet I’ve never used it since…
For the most part, one should also likely get a compatible phone and Samsung phones that support DEX are not cheap!
I have a Pixel and have owned Pixel phones for a while and it's a shame that Google is only just opening up HDMI external display on the Pixel 8!
It's a neat idea but I find it hard to succeed at scale.
I have a Pixel and have owned Pixel phones for a while and it's a shame that Google is only just opening up HDMI external display on the Pixel 8!
It's a neat idea but I find it hard to succeed at scale.
I started using my new 18" monitor attached to my phone.
I just need a second phone so I can control my phone now. The Samsung remote control alas doesn't work with Linux, otherwise maybe I could try that (although I doubt it's really be all that.for this remote control case).
I just need a second phone so I can control my phone now. The Samsung remote control alas doesn't work with Linux, otherwise maybe I could try that (although I doubt it's really be all that.for this remote control case).
A few times, I've considered if Apple would make a turducken iPhone sleeve becomes an iPad, and then an iPad with a magnetic base, telescoping laptop hinge, and battery becomes a MBP with touch interface. For profit and usability reasons, it ain't ever gonna happen in that garden.
In Android or DIY, sure it makes sense to offer a keyboard and possibly a bigger battery and more hardware resources as a dock. The only downside is now there's only 1 device that can be used instead of 2 discrete devices that can be used simultaneously and independently.
In Android or DIY, sure it makes sense to offer a keyboard and possibly a bigger battery and more hardware resources as a dock. The only downside is now there's only 1 device that can be used instead of 2 discrete devices that can be used simultaneously and independently.
Tangential: I followed the rabbit hole to Bliss OS, which I now want to try installing on one of my old laptops.
https://blissos.org/
https://blissos.org/
XL version weights 1910 g and has 1920 pix resolution. I have a $300 15 inch laptop with 2560 resolution, its own processor, disk and everything, that weights 1655g including the charger. It's good for movies, web and remote desktop. I can also install samsung dex app on it.
The only reason that thing might be useful, is if it were lighter, thinner and cheaper than the laptop, and it isn't.
Another reason to avoid these toys is because phones are not built for desktop-like work - they just overheat.
The only reason that thing might be useful, is if it were lighter, thinner and cheaper than the laptop, and it isn't.
Another reason to avoid these toys is because phones are not built for desktop-like work - they just overheat.
> if it were lighter, thinner and cheaper than the laptop, and it isn't.
This. I am afraid it comes down to price point and physical specs ...
(And beyond some point they economically cannot get any better, for, as a manufacturer, you'd be almost rebuilding a notebook (as far as parts anyway) with a (decent) screen, keyboard, (some) electronics, etc.).-
This. I am afraid it comes down to price point and physical specs ...
(And beyond some point they economically cannot get any better, for, as a manufacturer, you'd be almost rebuilding a notebook (as far as parts anyway) with a (decent) screen, keyboard, (some) electronics, etc.).-
PS. Only option would (perhaps) come if and when (mostly, when) display technology makes a breakthrough enabling very oh so ever extremely cheap manufacture to occur where you can put a screen on anything for the price of ... paper?
And, at that point, of course ...
And, at that point, of course ...
Wild that I'm seeing this on Hacker News. I just found out about the Dex capablilties of my zfold phone. I've been using it pretty much all week and have been considering going all in on this format.
I love that I can just use my phone for virtually everything I use my laptop for (developing probably being the only obsticle).
I've been considering some of the other options out there for portable monitor/keyboards and these seem (so far) the most affordable option. I wonder how the build quality it.
I love that I can just use my phone for virtually everything I use my laptop for (developing probably being the only obsticle).
I've been considering some of the other options out there for portable monitor/keyboards and these seem (so far) the most affordable option. I wonder how the build quality it.
I’ve bought so many of these types of devices and just want one that is real and works and stays working and has new versions. Maybe someone like framework will make it happen.
Samsung is not an option because they don’t security update their phone quick enough with the latest 0 day patches. If there’s monthly releases it’s full of patches a few months in the past.
Samsung is not an option because they don’t security update their phone quick enough with the latest 0 day patches. If there’s monthly releases it’s full of patches a few months in the past.
Bought an S8 a few years back cheap and Dex basically replaced my desktop and Android box until the phone stopped working. Think with some better communication to older people the format could have taken off because it did do all the basic functionality you'd need from a larger screen if you're not very technical
I still wish Samsung hadn't killed Linux on Dex.
I am genuinely surprised none of the attempts at this sort of things over the last 10+ years have gained much traction.
On it's face, merging the device we have in our pocket and on our desk makes so much sense. The biggest difference being screen size.
On it's face, merging the device we have in our pocket and on our desk makes so much sense. The biggest difference being screen size.
These make great KVMs for homelab solutions. You'll need a VGA to HDMI adapter, but I am very thankful I no longer have to lug a monitor/keyboard/mouse into my closet when a server without IPMI won't boot.
Oh wow, I was actually worried about this - right now I have a small USB-powered display and a TrackPoint keyboard and was wondering about whether I could get a laptop shell that would just combine the two, but all I can find are either these phone docks or heavy server rack KVMs. What's your setup like for this?
The NexDock came with an HDMI (output) to mini-HDMI (input) cable, and a USB-B to USB-C cable (for mouse/keyboard), which is all you need to connect to anything modern. I bought an $8 VGA to HDMI adapter for use with my older enterprise equipment without HDMI. I just keep all of them next to my rack, and connect the HDMI and USB as needed. The NexDock has a basic OSD that let's you switch between USB-C or HDMI video inputs.
I already owned a NexDock so this is just what I've stuck with. These days I'd probably recommend a PiKVM with a networked KVM switch, if you have like 4+ physical servers it can be cheaper + give networked access. With added complexity and failure points.
I already owned a NexDock so this is just what I've stuck with. These days I'd probably recommend a PiKVM with a networked KVM switch, if you have like 4+ physical servers it can be cheaper + give networked access. With added complexity and failure points.
Reminds me of Razer project Linda (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gKu-T13vXs )
IME 99.9% of android apps have no hotkeys or mouse support, firefox shockingly has no hotkeys, and chrome is missing enough things (like mouse middle click, which currently works consistently windows+mac+linux) that the experience is completely broken. How bad the android desktop experience is really holds back these awesome devices.
I like the idea of using a mini PC with one of these and then swapping that out while keeping the display and keyboard.
The Khadas Mind, which has been controversial in tech reviewer circles, kind of carries itself like that: https://www.khadas.com/mind
The pricing is all off, but the model has potential.
The Khadas Mind, which has been controversial in tech reviewer circles, kind of carries itself like that: https://www.khadas.com/mind
The pricing is all off, but the model has potential.
You can get a nice N100 mini-PC for much less than $200 (I got a nice compact one for my electronics bench for EUR 150: https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2024/07/04/2200), and those pack enough computing power to be seriously useful… Especially when compared to ARM SBCs.
I came across this which fits an Intel N100 in your pocket: https://store.minisforum.com/products/minisforum-s100
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This website is pretty badly designed. The home page should be selling me on what phones this works with, and why I should trust these people to pull it off when a bunch of other projects have come and gone that failed to do the same thing.
https://nexdock.com/compatible-smartphones/
And while the site is badly designed, it does not have to explain why you should "trust these people". They should tell you what the product is, and for you to decide whether you like this product enough to buy it. Unless you suspect they'll run with your money (this isn't a kickstarter) or that the product claims are untruthful, trust is irrelevant.
The reason companies in this space fail is just because too few people have been interested in this class of product. Maybe one day, when smartphones are more powerful and these products are convenient enough.
And while the site is badly designed, it does not have to explain why you should "trust these people". They should tell you what the product is, and for you to decide whether you like this product enough to buy it. Unless you suspect they'll run with your money (this isn't a kickstarter) or that the product claims are untruthful, trust is irrelevant.
The reason companies in this space fail is just because too few people have been interested in this class of product. Maybe one day, when smartphones are more powerful and these products are convenient enough.
Agreed that the website is mid but I don't get the part where you say:
> when a bunch of other projects have come and gone that failed to do the same thing
This has been "pulled off" successfully for a long time now. Nexdock themselves have been around and shipping different "convergence" products since at least 2016.
> when a bunch of other projects have come and gone that failed to do the same thing
This has been "pulled off" successfully for a long time now. Nexdock themselves have been around and shipping different "convergence" products since at least 2016.
> The home page should be selling me on what phones this works with
Anything that can be connected to an external display, keyboard, and mouse.
> why I should trust these people to pull it off when a bunch of other projects have come and gone that failed to do the same thing.
My NexDock has served me well for 7 years. Even if the company flopped tomorrow, it would continue to serve me for years. I don't see the risk here even if you don't trust the company to continue to thrive.
Anything that can be connected to an external display, keyboard, and mouse.
> why I should trust these people to pull it off when a bunch of other projects have come and gone that failed to do the same thing.
My NexDock has served me well for 7 years. Even if the company flopped tomorrow, it would continue to serve me for years. I don't see the risk here even if you don't trust the company to continue to thrive.
Looks like they pissed off a lot of ppl when they couldnt deliver on 120hz
I've wanted to try one of these together with my steamdeck for a long time.
Do they offer international key layouts yet (Swedish specifically)?
Also i find the dimensions a bit funny, 320x240 :)
Do they offer international key layouts yet (Swedish specifically)?
Also i find the dimensions a bit funny, 320x240 :)
(Somebody upthread - aptly - mentioned non-US keyboard layouts were a problem for these sort of setups [so far] ...)
Does anyone know if the Pixel phones will ever support this?
Google only recently enabled USB-C display mode recently. It is only the Pixel 8 and later. Don't know if earlier phones will get it, it depends on having the hardware and getting the OS update.
Darn, thanks. I only have a 7, will have to see if that ever happens.
I've said this for years, since I owned a Samsung Galaxy something with the dock that had USB, ethernet and HDMI; you put your phone in and you have a desktop...
This will be the future, but only when Apple does this to their iPhones lineup; the experience will be consistent and seamless; I'm not a fan boy, but one thing i'm sure is that they will release this and it will be like working on macOS, but you have it in your pocket.
This will be the future, but only when Apple does this to their iPhones lineup; the experience will be consistent and seamless; I'm not a fan boy, but one thing i'm sure is that they will release this and it will be like working on macOS, but you have it in your pocket.
Isn’t it against their self interest? If my iPhone is acting as my laptop with just an additional screen, why would I buy a Mac book.
I totally want to lose all of my desktop computer stuff when I smash my phone. “But you are not supposed to have anything locally, everything you do has to be in The Cloud”. You will own nothing and you will be happy. Not even any data.
I’m convinced the only reason Apple invented continuity is so that people don’t realize that they only need one or two devices total.
People have been trying to make this a reality for over a decade. Remember the Motorola Atrix + "Lapdock" from 2011? It seems like it's something the consumer just doesn't want. They want separate computing devices for different functions.
Ironically we're finally at a point now where phones have the power to run desktop-class applications without compromise. Most flagships phones are more powerful than the average laptop sold these days.
Ironically we're finally at a point now where phones have the power to run desktop-class applications without compromise. Most flagships phones are more powerful than the average laptop sold these days.
I have bought two different earlier generations of these and
I never got either to work properly.
The second should also be able to operate as a terminal,
(Monitor and keys) for a computer, which was basically
impossible to get working.
The user experience to operate / change modes was exceptionally poor. I figure plug in the HDMI from the computer plug in the provided USB cable and it's smooth sailing. but that was not the case at all.
Connecting a device was difficult to get working but it varied by which device.
I hope they are better now. It is a great idea.
The user experience to operate / change modes was exceptionally poor. I figure plug in the HDMI from the computer plug in the provided USB cable and it's smooth sailing. but that was not the case at all.
Connecting a device was difficult to get working but it varied by which device.
I hope they are better now. It is a great idea.
This looks like a neat idea but the marketing for this is scummy. Adding a keyboard and screen does not like a "gaming PC" just because you can run cloud games on it. It advertises plugging a raspberry pi into it for a "fully functional computer at a revolutionarily low cost" which isn't true. You also can't turn your phone into a windows 10 laptop by running cloud services.
More recently I've been impressed with my steam deck's desktop mode that's a fairly no-frills Linux distro, its use of flatpaks everywhere is kind of annoying though. When it's good enough to make a game for steam deck on the steam deck with e.g. godot and blender, it's good enough for a lot of other things. I've been chucking it in with my travel laptop for trips, but one of these times I'm going to have to try just taking it alone with just a mouse and keyboard to complement.