Officer who ignored NYPD's 'courtesy cards' receives $175K settlement(apnews.com)
apnews.com
Officer who ignored NYPD's 'courtesy cards' receives $175K settlement
https://apnews.com/article/nypd-courtesy-card-police-misconduct-d5dfdbdad12b01a2cda864f69aa3d1aa
175 comments
Even if they are only used by family members of cops, this is still nepotism and should be punished. There is no valid reason for these cards to exist. Maybe I am naïve, but I still think that the law should apply equally to everyone.
I don't even think law should apply equally. I believe elected officials and people in roles like police or in legal system should be always held to absolutely highest impossible standards.
While I tend to agree, it would mean that criminals would use it to harass cops, which would end up having the opposite effect. More corruption, instead of less.
So they should be held to the same standards as everyone else, which is a safe, sane compromise between those ends.
So they should be held to the same standards as everyone else, which is a safe, sane compromise between those ends.
Not trolling or attacking, but - how would criminals use higher standards of behavior to harass police?
I don't propose to have any magic solutions or great insights, but if there's a proper series of reforms I don't see how that could make them an easier target. As for a "proper series of reforms" - mandatory body cams is on my personal short list (enshrined in law or insurance policies, but with clear and severe repercussions for incidents of not having them on), though better pay (it's harder to bribe someone who isn't having money issues), crisis and mental health training (and yes, establishing other support structures for these issues, rather than relying on police to handle them too), stricter and more streamlined disciplinary action (no more needing national outrage to get a murderer fired and charged, and no union/FOB protection for clear violations of civil rights and this new code of conduct), and whistleblower protection would all be great.
If anything, that would make police _safer_ - there will always be criminals and those who wish to do harm, in general or to those who oppose their illegal activities - but having the entire citizenry at best wary of you, and at worst hostile, does _not_ help. Policing their own and just generally "doing better" would do a lot to increase general support for the police, which would increase cooperation and reduce the chances of radicalizing citizens.
The entire discussion is very complex, and I'm just an idiot on the internet, so take this with a bucket of salt.
Thanks for reading that wall of text; have a good day.
I don't propose to have any magic solutions or great insights, but if there's a proper series of reforms I don't see how that could make them an easier target. As for a "proper series of reforms" - mandatory body cams is on my personal short list (enshrined in law or insurance policies, but with clear and severe repercussions for incidents of not having them on), though better pay (it's harder to bribe someone who isn't having money issues), crisis and mental health training (and yes, establishing other support structures for these issues, rather than relying on police to handle them too), stricter and more streamlined disciplinary action (no more needing national outrage to get a murderer fired and charged, and no union/FOB protection for clear violations of civil rights and this new code of conduct), and whistleblower protection would all be great.
If anything, that would make police _safer_ - there will always be criminals and those who wish to do harm, in general or to those who oppose their illegal activities - but having the entire citizenry at best wary of you, and at worst hostile, does _not_ help. Policing their own and just generally "doing better" would do a lot to increase general support for the police, which would increase cooperation and reduce the chances of radicalizing citizens.
The entire discussion is very complex, and I'm just an idiot on the internet, so take this with a bucket of salt.
Thanks for reading that wall of text; have a good day.
Criminals would be looking for infractions to take cops to court with, constantly. Things that are overlooked for normal people (jaywalking) would end up with cops wasting their time in court or even jail.
Keep in mind the parent poster said "absolutely highest impossible standards."
Keep in mind the parent poster said "absolutely highest impossible standards."
> Things that are overlooked for normal people (jaywalking) would end up with cops wasting their time in court or even jail.
That would actually be a great thing. Not because of the wasted time, but because it'll highlight silly laws that didn't need to exist.
There should not exist laws that get overlooked for normal people (most of the time except when powers that be want to harass them).
The solution is to recognize such laws didn't make any sense to begin with, and remove them. Problem solved, now nobody gets time wasted on nonsense.
That would actually be a great thing. Not because of the wasted time, but because it'll highlight silly laws that didn't need to exist.
There should not exist laws that get overlooked for normal people (most of the time except when powers that be want to harass them).
The solution is to recognize such laws didn't make any sense to begin with, and remove them. Problem solved, now nobody gets time wasted on nonsense.
Laws like that exist because selective enforcement of them provides the police an excuse to stop someone.
That seems less like an argument against public officials having enhanced scrutiny, and more an argument why they should have no scrutiny at all — because that’s the only defense against such a fanciful attack. That’s the logic that brought us the abomination of qualified immunity.
> Criminals would be looking for infractions to take cops to court with, constantly. Things that are overlooked for normal people (jaywalking) would end up with cops wasting their time in court or even jail.
Maybe this just isn't a good example, but AFAIK I can't, as a private citizen, do anything about someone jaywalking, speeding, etc. That enforcement is the sole jurisdiction of the cops. So trolling cops with it is not an avenue for criminals.
And I'm hard pressed to see how enforcing these things more stringently against cops is a bad thing. Cops SHOULD be setting the example here.
Maybe this just isn't a good example, but AFAIK I can't, as a private citizen, do anything about someone jaywalking, speeding, etc. That enforcement is the sole jurisdiction of the cops. So trolling cops with it is not an avenue for criminals.
And I'm hard pressed to see how enforcing these things more stringently against cops is a bad thing. Cops SHOULD be setting the example here.
That's one of the benefits of the body cams - it protects the police from false accusations while it protects the citizens from abuse.
Your point about "absolutely highest impossible standards" is valid, though I'd say that I don't actually support _impossible_ standards. I don't know what the parent poster was thinking, what you're thinking, or what _anyone_ other than me is thinking about what would be "reasonable" standards, but obviously _impossible_ standards are, well, impossible... So yes, the standards would need lots of discussion and work, that I have not put in (and am not qualified for).
As for your general point about harassment...there's a lot.
First, I don't get how your specific example of jaywalking would apply - I don't think that would be something that a random person can take another random person to court over. Ignoring that pedantic note - if the cop jaywalks while not on duty, I don't really care - treat it the same as any other jaywalking incident. If they're on duty - if they're actively pursuing a crime/criminal, or doing something else that justifies the action, fine; if a random citizen reports them, worst case should be that someone (group, really) reviews the body cam footage, and then issues either a "no this was fine" or appropriate punishment - for jaywalking, I hope that wouldn't be more than a strongly worded "try to stick to the sidewalks and crosswalks when in uniform".
In general, the jaywalking example is actually really valuable - laws that are unenforced or unequally enforced leave a huge amount of space for abuse.
So maybe that would be a good start for the standards for the police - enforce the laws that actually already exist. So if a cop, say, walks into somebody's house to update them on their search for someone who was creeping around, and then ends up shooting the person _who called the police there_ in the head, well - sounds a lot like murder, and should be pursued as such. Same for kneeling on someone's neck for, what was it, 8 minutes and 46 seconds while others stand around and watch - sounds a lot like murder and ignoring a murder going on right in front of you (while you have the ability and responsibility as a representative of law enforcement to stop it)...
Alright, that turned into...much more of a rant than I expected, sorry.
Again, thanks for reading, and the civil discussion (not sarcasm). Have a good day all.
Your point about "absolutely highest impossible standards" is valid, though I'd say that I don't actually support _impossible_ standards. I don't know what the parent poster was thinking, what you're thinking, or what _anyone_ other than me is thinking about what would be "reasonable" standards, but obviously _impossible_ standards are, well, impossible... So yes, the standards would need lots of discussion and work, that I have not put in (and am not qualified for).
As for your general point about harassment...there's a lot.
First, I don't get how your specific example of jaywalking would apply - I don't think that would be something that a random person can take another random person to court over. Ignoring that pedantic note - if the cop jaywalks while not on duty, I don't really care - treat it the same as any other jaywalking incident. If they're on duty - if they're actively pursuing a crime/criminal, or doing something else that justifies the action, fine; if a random citizen reports them, worst case should be that someone (group, really) reviews the body cam footage, and then issues either a "no this was fine" or appropriate punishment - for jaywalking, I hope that wouldn't be more than a strongly worded "try to stick to the sidewalks and crosswalks when in uniform".
In general, the jaywalking example is actually really valuable - laws that are unenforced or unequally enforced leave a huge amount of space for abuse.
So maybe that would be a good start for the standards for the police - enforce the laws that actually already exist. So if a cop, say, walks into somebody's house to update them on their search for someone who was creeping around, and then ends up shooting the person _who called the police there_ in the head, well - sounds a lot like murder, and should be pursued as such. Same for kneeling on someone's neck for, what was it, 8 minutes and 46 seconds while others stand around and watch - sounds a lot like murder and ignoring a murder going on right in front of you (while you have the ability and responsibility as a representative of law enforcement to stop it)...
Alright, that turned into...much more of a rant than I expected, sorry.
Again, thanks for reading, and the civil discussion (not sarcasm). Have a good day all.
> jaywalking
This should be abolished as something illegal; some countries function perfectly well with much more reasonable laws on that topic.
This should be abolished as something illegal; some countries function perfectly well with much more reasonable laws on that topic.
Or lawmakers would be pressured to change laws that are too easy to break by accident.
Better than letting cops do whatever they want with virtually zero public oversight or control
Being a cop during commission of a crime should, at the very least, be an aggravating circumstance, just as being armed or spewing racial slurs is.
Even if it's only used by cops or family members it's still naked corruption.
It's not nepotism or any lesser thing, it's outright corruption.
It's also clear sign that you're living in a police state when the police and those of their choosing appear to be above the law.
It's not nepotism or any lesser thing, it's outright corruption.
It's also clear sign that you're living in a police state when the police and those of their choosing appear to be above the law.
Nepotism is corruption.
Part of the emoluments of enforcing the law has always been at least partial immunity from the law, and not just during official duties.
I know a retired NYPD officer who would hand them out to non-family as Christmas gifts every year.
Yeah, the weirdest part of the article was it talking about "misuse" of the cards and acting like the number of cards distributed is the problem. It wouldn't be better if each officer received one card to give to their SO or if an active NYPD badge were the only thing that got you preferential treatment—the problem is that there exists a way to signal to the officer who pulled you over that they'll get in trouble if they ticket you.
I'm sure the card started as a cute novelty, but the instant it became a signal that someone is above the law it became a problem no matter how few were in circulation at the time.
I'm sure the card started as a cute novelty, but the instant it became a signal that someone is above the law it became a problem no matter how few were in circulation at the time.
I was shocked when I read this. You (and the officer) are right, this is 100% corruption and it’s absolutely disgusting. There should be a much bigger deal being made about this.
[deleted]
Related. Others?
Traffic cop sues city for get-out-of-jail-free cards for NYPD friends and family - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36188406 - June 2023 (47 comments)
The Little Cards That Tell Police 'Let's Forget This Ever Happened' (2020) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33638962 - Nov 2022 (43 comments)
NYC Police Union Reducing Number of “Get Out of Jail Free” Courtesy Cards (2018) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30742209 - March 2022 (32 comments)
Police-issued "courtesy cards" help friends and family out of minor infractions - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24353003 - Sept 2020 (435 comments)
“Get Out of Jail Free” Cards in New York - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16207890 - Jan 2018 (207 comments)
NYC Police union slashes number of ‘get out of jail free’ cards issued - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16201487 - Jan 2018 (2 comments)
Traffic cop sues city for get-out-of-jail-free cards for NYPD friends and family - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36188406 - June 2023 (47 comments)
The Little Cards That Tell Police 'Let's Forget This Ever Happened' (2020) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33638962 - Nov 2022 (43 comments)
NYC Police Union Reducing Number of “Get Out of Jail Free” Courtesy Cards (2018) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30742209 - March 2022 (32 comments)
Police-issued "courtesy cards" help friends and family out of minor infractions - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24353003 - Sept 2020 (435 comments)
“Get Out of Jail Free” Cards in New York - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16207890 - Jan 2018 (207 comments)
NYC Police union slashes number of ‘get out of jail free’ cards issued - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16201487 - Jan 2018 (2 comments)
Naive me really thought until today that "get out of jail card" was some kind of internet/cultural/US/insider joke...
It's a card in Monopoly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Get_Out_of_Jail_Free_card
It is in most places! Many people outside of NYC are as astounded by this practice as you are.
> Bianchi said his views about the courtesy cards haven’t changed. The 40-year-old Staten Island-based officer said there should be more oversight over how many of the cards are distributed to officers
Am I missing something or is that really backwards? They should get rid of these cards fully, not regulate how many are being distributed, seems to focus on a really weird solution.
Am I missing something or is that really backwards? They should get rid of these cards fully, not regulate how many are being distributed, seems to focus on a really weird solution.
I'm surprised at how easy everyone involved takes it. I would imagine people hastily trying to shove it under the rug, maybe mumble a little about how it's totally unacceptable but only a few bad apples. Instead everyone in this story just seem OK with the status quo.
Because law enforcement and prosecutor discretion is a huge portion of the legal system in US. This selective enforcement is business as usual. They couldn't enforce all the laws even if they wanted to because the system doesn't have the capacity.
Feels like he only wants get out of jail free cards to go to the 'right people'. I wonder who he thinks should be able to be exempt from laws. Rules for thee and thine friends but not me and my mine.
[deleted]
Thanks for helping me move, enjoy your free crime!
wickedsight(4)
If you aren't scared of the NYPD you aren't paying attention. A worldwide(1) force that often blurs lines between law enforcement and "cartel" behavior.
1. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/21/nyregion/terrorism-nypd-i...
Speaking of, this just broke: "The NYPD Is Tossing Out Hundreds of Misconduct Cases — Including Stop-and-Frisks — Without Even Looking at Them" https://www.propublica.org/article/nypd-tossed-out-police-mi...
1. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/21/nyregion/terrorism-nypd-i...
Speaking of, this just broke: "The NYPD Is Tossing Out Hundreds of Misconduct Cases — Including Stop-and-Frisks — Without Even Looking at Them" https://www.propublica.org/article/nypd-tossed-out-police-mi...
Former NYC mayor Bloomberg once joked that the NYPD was his private army, and the 7th largest army in the world. This is hyperbole, but looking at staffing and budget, it actually is in the top 30, larger than that of many small countries.
is that not the job of the FBI ? why does city police need a worldwide presence ?
You think anyone other than the idf could train someone to fart in a subway for eight hours a day while contributing nothing to society
Why is police stationed in the subway a bad thing? In civilized countries, they barely do a bad thing but are very helpful in deterring would-be offenders, or helping out the subway staff. Most of the time, they're lowly constables and recruits doing national service.
Of course, NY subway police is something else, and that's a very NY thing.
Of course, NY subway police is something else, and that's a very NY thing.
> Why is police stationed in the subway a bad thing?
Mostly, it's just a waste of money. Just move the fee collection to taxes and you can free literally hundreds of millions of dollars devoted to stationing cops and stop pretending that fare skippers are going to financially cripple the city. Cops can't keep up with the kids anyway.
> Most of the time, they're lowly constables and recruits doing national service.
"Service" is a reach given most of what they do is... nothing. Literally just standing around as a physical manifestation of security theater. If they want to be useful they can build housing or distribute food or bring people healthcare.
Mostly, it's just a waste of money. Just move the fee collection to taxes and you can free literally hundreds of millions of dollars devoted to stationing cops and stop pretending that fare skippers are going to financially cripple the city. Cops can't keep up with the kids anyway.
> Most of the time, they're lowly constables and recruits doing national service.
"Service" is a reach given most of what they do is... nothing. Literally just standing around as a physical manifestation of security theater. If they want to be useful they can build housing or distribute food or bring people healthcare.
It's "national service". A concept perhaps alien in the US, but basically most countries have a programme where eighteen-yr olds have to go through service in a government job, either in the army, police, fire or EMT. I mentioned that as the comment above mentioned the IDF.
Police standing around in subways is still a deterrent from bad behavior, especially when coupled with a justice system that doesn't reward criminals. See Japan, Korea, Singapore, Dubai, Israel, etc.
Police standing around in subways is still a deterrent from bad behavior, especially when coupled with a justice system that doesn't reward criminals. See Japan, Korea, Singapore, Dubai, Israel, etc.
Well, until the cops start actually serving the public rather than being (again) security theatre, I stand by my skepticism. I understand other countries have much less organized-crime-like police cultures.
National service is not a concept that's alien to the US, it's just one that was massively delegitimized by the government sending tens of thousands of young men and women off to die in Asia, for ends many would characterize as "meaningless" or "evil", in hindsight. Abuse and exploitation of patriotism leading to distrust and deflated enthusiasm. (This is a dynamic Israel might want to pay attention to.)
Lets not forget NYPD is just a drop in the bucket, the police is the whole US is wildly corrupted.
It's not just Police, it's judges and politicians too.
Quite possibly, I don’t doubt that. That still doesn’t change the fact that police is in dire need of reform.
This is banana republic level corruption. How is this allowed to continue in a serious 1st world country?
I get that "banana republic" is often used to describe corrupt countries, but this overlooks the fact that much of the corruption was imposed by foreign powers, particularly the United Fruit Company with the backing of the U.S. government. These countries didn’t choose corruption; they were often forced into it through military intervention, economic pressure, and violence.
The United Fruit Company, with U.S. support, orchestrated coups (like in Guatemala in 1954), suppressed labor movements (e.g., the 1928 Banana Massacre in Colombia), and funded paramilitary groups. The so-called "corruption" was largely a result of foreign exploitation, not internal failings.
So, when you say "banana republic level corruption," you're actually talking about imperialist practices imposed by the U.S.—the very first-world country you’re wondering about.
Sources:
- Banana giant held liable for funding paramilitaries: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c6pprpd3x96o
- The Dark Side of Bananas: Imperialism, Non-State Actors, and Power: https://hir.harvard.edu/the-dark-side-of-bananas-imperialism...
The United Fruit Company, with U.S. support, orchestrated coups (like in Guatemala in 1954), suppressed labor movements (e.g., the 1928 Banana Massacre in Colombia), and funded paramilitary groups. The so-called "corruption" was largely a result of foreign exploitation, not internal failings.
So, when you say "banana republic level corruption," you're actually talking about imperialist practices imposed by the U.S.—the very first-world country you’re wondering about.
Sources:
- Banana giant held liable for funding paramilitaries: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c6pprpd3x96o
- The Dark Side of Bananas: Imperialism, Non-State Actors, and Power: https://hir.harvard.edu/the-dark-side-of-bananas-imperialism...
The U.S. imperialism is what "banana republic" means!
> In 1904, American author O. Henry coined the term[1][2] to describe Guatemala and Honduras under economic exploitation by U.S. corporations, such as the United Fruit Company (now Chiquita).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic
> In 1904, American author O. Henry coined the term[1][2] to describe Guatemala and Honduras under economic exploitation by U.S. corporations, such as the United Fruit Company (now Chiquita).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic
"Banana republic" refers to governments that are captured by (foreign) corporate interests. In NYC, that's going to be the city government and army-sized police force (sometimes described as "occupying") operating mostly for the benefit of the financial, real estate, and (to a lesser extent) entertainment industries, all of which, I'd wager, involve foreign nationals at a higher rate than exist in the general population.
When the NYPD is harassing native New Yorkers so that investors from Israel, Europe, and China feel more comfortable (on both a personal and economic level), that feels quite "banana republic"-y to me.
When the NYPD is harassing native New Yorkers so that investors from Israel, Europe, and China feel more comfortable (on both a personal and economic level), that feels quite "banana republic"-y to me.
In many ways USA is not a first world country. Some liken it to a third world country with a Gucci belt. I think that's depressingly accurate.
I'm pretty certain this is an NYPD thing. Other PDs would have something similar too, but I don't think this is a pan-US thing. Of course, in certain places, you wouldn't even need a card, just let yourself be known as a cop's relative or a judge's kid.
These cards are distributed like candy for favors. The judge typically don't have 100 kids.
$175k isn't much for basically getting your career ended
Don't know what police officers make, but perhaps it gives a long enough runway?
That’s 1-2 years for an NYPD officer. It’s enough to find another job … except that the code of omertà runs strong and they might have trouble finding a police force which will hire them. Unlike an officer who kills a civilian, who will easily find new work, this is seen as a crime against the profession.
That’s less than a year’s salary for most Seattle PD officers.
My understanding for the NYPD is that the base average is roughly $90k but most of them are killing it on overtime.
You need a pretty big runway when one of the largest violent gangs in the world sees you as an enemy.
Runway for what? Will this guy receive a city pension? Will he have the perks retired NYPD officers have? I hope he gets hired back as a top brass.
"..the nine-year veteran of the force.." 11 more years is a long time to spend as a pariah. Then again it took a strong belief in ethics to do what he did, and he had to have chosen to go in this direction with his eyes open. Hopefully he's strong in other ways, because I would imagine it's going to be hard on the streets effectively alone.
Regarding NYPD pension: "With 5 years of service credit, you become vested and are entitled to a monthly benefit that may start as early as age 55."
Not nearly enough, and his career shouldn't end nevertheless. He chose to be a police officer and should not be punished for being better than his peers.
California highway patrol had some license plate holders that would prevent them from pulling you over, but that took a hit some time back when counterfeits hit the market. CHP 11-99 club issued them.
I've been given one by a member of the NYPD twice in the past couple of years. I've politely accepted it, put in my desk drawer, and I do not carry it. Always bothered me. Police culture in this city is fundamentally broken.
Straight from Blade Runner, if you’re not a cop you’re “little people”
Captain Harry Bryant: "Stop right where you are! You know the score, pal. You're not cop, you're little people“
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9lru1Qxc1l8
Captain Harry Bryant: "Stop right where you are! You know the score, pal. You're not cop, you're little people“
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9lru1Qxc1l8
Hmmm, seems like they're not individually numbered/tracked.
So, someone with a colour printer and the right template could distribute them at-will. ;)
So, someone with a colour printer and the right template could distribute them at-will. ;)
They have the issuing officer's name phone number on them, and you're encouraged to call and verify it. I suspect being found to have a fake one is... frowned upon.
Well, if someone's going to go to the effort of counterfeiting them, they might as well put together a list of officers who have passed away and use those names. o_O
Now you’re getting thumped because the dead officer was their buddy and you can’t tell one anecdote about them.
There are riskier games to play, but not all that many.
There are riskier games to play, but not all that many.
Meh, it's pretty easy. "My wife gave me the card, just in case."
That'll generally only go wrong if you're not married. ;)
That'll generally only go wrong if you're not married. ;)
I think the issue in NYC might be the police union rather than the organization per se. As described in the article the source and enforcement of this particular practice is the union. I’m actually quite sympathetic to unions- it seems like there are many scenarios where they would really help workers - improving scheduling, making pay more fair, demanding health care benefits. (And unions have done all these things in the past!)
But it seems like sometimes there is capture by a cartel that creates and enforces anti-social behavior. In the case of police, once the cartel is established I don’t see how it can be broken. In a small town, you can just fire the whole department and start over, but short of bringing in the national guard while you trained new police, I don’t know how a city like NYC could do this. This is important because as we’ve already experienced in the post-2020 period, if enough people ignore the police union political endorsements, they will take collective action to reduce public safety. So the cartel (along with violent criminals obviously) effectively can make their own rules.
One solution might be to demand that the majority of police working in a region/burrough/etc, actually lived there????
But it seems like sometimes there is capture by a cartel that creates and enforces anti-social behavior. In the case of police, once the cartel is established I don’t see how it can be broken. In a small town, you can just fire the whole department and start over, but short of bringing in the national guard while you trained new police, I don’t know how a city like NYC could do this. This is important because as we’ve already experienced in the post-2020 period, if enough people ignore the police union political endorsements, they will take collective action to reduce public safety. So the cartel (along with violent criminals obviously) effectively can make their own rules.
One solution might be to demand that the majority of police working in a region/burrough/etc, actually lived there????
Usually limits the applicant pool down way too far. I know the PD in my city are having a hard time getting enough recruits as it is and are already running like 30% below the manpower they're "supposed" to have; they've relaxed long-standing residency requirements in recent years.
[deleted]
How are these even legal?
Once an organisation becomes corrupt enough, it becomes exceptionally hard to root out the corruption - even if you're politically powerful, like a state governor.
All the cops who didn't like corruption have been chased out - a process this article shows in action. All the people who think the culture is unconscionable have quit. Every new hire is trained by people who will tell them "it's normal, everyone does it". And all the leadership, even if they don't engage in corruption themselves, have ignored it or covered it up.
If you're the governor and you decide to crack down on corrupt cops? The cops can simply stop dealing with certain highly visible crimes, claiming they're too busy or whatever. And sure, you can fire some of them - but all the replacements are also implicated in corruption.
Meanwhile, voters don't care about the political minutiae and blame-shifting, all they know is under governor Chris_wot they don't feel safe walking the streets, they want someone tough on crime. You lose the election to your opponent, who gives the cops MRAPs, AR-15s and a license to kill; and suddenly the cops have time to deal with those highly visible crimes.
The trick to avoiding this is that you've got to root out corruption early - before the honest people have been driven out.
All the cops who didn't like corruption have been chased out - a process this article shows in action. All the people who think the culture is unconscionable have quit. Every new hire is trained by people who will tell them "it's normal, everyone does it". And all the leadership, even if they don't engage in corruption themselves, have ignored it or covered it up.
If you're the governor and you decide to crack down on corrupt cops? The cops can simply stop dealing with certain highly visible crimes, claiming they're too busy or whatever. And sure, you can fire some of them - but all the replacements are also implicated in corruption.
Meanwhile, voters don't care about the political minutiae and blame-shifting, all they know is under governor Chris_wot they don't feel safe walking the streets, they want someone tough on crime. You lose the election to your opponent, who gives the cops MRAPs, AR-15s and a license to kill; and suddenly the cops have time to deal with those highly visible crimes.
The trick to avoiding this is that you've got to root out corruption early - before the honest people have been driven out.
Seriously though. They're literally get out of jail free cards.
They're laminated and full color corruption. How is this allowed?
They're laminated and full color corruption. How is this allowed?
[deleted]
Have you ever been pulled over by a cop and given a warning? Many people have.
As long as there's any amount of leeway in enforcement of the law, things like courtesy cards will exist. All it is is a little nudge to say, "Hey. I'm one of you and yours. Let's let it slide."
That will continue to exist even if the cards entirely disappear.
As long as there's any amount of leeway in enforcement of the law, things like courtesy cards will exist. All it is is a little nudge to say, "Hey. I'm one of you and yours. Let's let it slide."
That will continue to exist even if the cards entirely disappear.
> As long as there's any amount of leeway in enforcement of the law, things like courtesy cards will exist
The moment it’s standardised not only in writing, but as a physical object, it should become trivially prosecutable. The existence of these cards should trigger DoJ intervention. (Maybe the Adams administration’s recent failings will prompt this.)
The moment it’s standardised not only in writing, but as a physical object, it should become trivially prosecutable. The existence of these cards should trigger DoJ intervention. (Maybe the Adams administration’s recent failings will prompt this.)
There won't be any DoJ intervention for two reasons:
1. The existence of these cards has been widely known about for well over a decade.
2. The DoJ is full of cops as well.
1. The existence of these cards has been widely known about for well over a decade.
2. The DoJ is full of cops as well.
> DoJ is full of cops as well
This hypothesis would appear to be disprovable by the DoJ prosecuting cops. (Hint: they do. Including entire police forces.)
This hypothesis would appear to be disprovable by the DoJ prosecuting cops. (Hint: they do. Including entire police forces.)
This isn't about police exercising their judgement. It's about creating a privileged class who are above the law. This is gang behaviour.
Police are gangs, though, definitionally.
Takes a criminal to catch one, as they say. Deputy gangs have been around since the 1970's.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LASD_deputy_gangs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LASD_deputy_gangs
> As long as there's any amount of leeway in enforcement of the law, things like courtesy cards will exist
Do they exist somewhere else?
The police have wide discretion to issue a warning instead of a fine in most countries as far as I know. But these cards seem to be unique to NYPD. I don't mean that corruption doesn't exist elsewhere but usually it's a little less obvious!
Do they exist somewhere else?
The police have wide discretion to issue a warning instead of a fine in most countries as far as I know. But these cards seem to be unique to NYPD. I don't mean that corruption doesn't exist elsewhere but usually it's a little less obvious!
They're not unique to NYPD. Cops in New Jersey have them too and I'm sure others.
In my highly corrupt country, it's enough to tell the officer you know person so-and-so. They might ask you a question or two, or even threaten to call the person you claim to know, but they rarely do.
That's what you do in smaller towns in the US. Especially in the South, but I'm sure it's pretty much the same elsewhere. Cards are a big-city thing, maybe even just a NYC thing.
Letting it slide is one thing. Letting it slide because of who someone is, is something else entirely. Just because the behavior will continue to exist doesn't mean it should be actively encouraged or systemized.
Formal corruption like this is a show of force by the enforcers that they are above others. It’s also useful for cops figure out which other cops will cover for them, rather than apply the law fairly (see article).
Most of the time when a "warning" is given it is because the cop doesnt have sufficient evidence for a ticket. Dont tell the cop how fast you were driving. If they ask, the probably dont know.
I've seen a movie where a cop gives a warning to one of the character and actually enters the warning into the system so that warnings are tracked. The guy is a bad dude that does not want to leave a trace so ends up killing the cop.
I don't know if it's an actual thing.
Edit: I remember now, it was Jack Reacher season 2.
I don't know if it's an actual thing.
Edit: I remember now, it was Jack Reacher season 2.
At least in Canada, you can get an official warning where they fill out the ticket slip but don't fine you. I'm not sure how long its tracked for but it is a real thing. Also I do believe that the car being pulled over is likely logged somewhere usually in the officer's notes.
The reason he killed the cop wasn't that he didn't want to leave any trace (though he killed other people over that previously) it's that the car was stolen from someone he had murdered and he knew that that would show up when the cop ran the plates.
I 100% agree. Just wait until you hear about NYPD challenge coins. [1] Pg. 21 shows us a coin that celebrates an absolutely despicable story where the NYPD forcibly committed a whistleblower to a mental hospital.
1. https://researchdestroy.com/nypd-challenge-coins.pdf
1. https://researchdestroy.com/nypd-challenge-coins.pdf
That's a very depressing list of badges.
There's an underlying presumption to your question that all stops are fair in the first place. Many are officers trying to make quota. Occasionally an egregious violation is waved and the person goes on to hurt someone, but most are speed or seatbelt traps.
> There's an underlying presumption to your question that all stops are fair in the first place
"Driving while black" comes to mind.
> Many are officers trying to make quota.
This is another thing that should never exist.
"Driving while black" comes to mind.
> Many are officers trying to make quota.
This is another thing that should never exist.
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Its just a card. The illegal part is how the nypd (and others) treat the cards.
It is less corrupt than other systems. Massachusetts has a system of special vip license plates to prevent influential people from being pulled over in the first place.
It is less corrupt than other systems. Massachusetts has a system of special vip license plates to prevent influential people from being pulled over in the first place.
The only reason the card (or any other signifier) would exist is to facilitate corruption.
And military family cards? ABA cards? How about cards from political parties? The corruption is in how the cops react to such things. (Back in the day, the Hells Angels also issued thankyou cards, although how cops would react is questionable.)
In what context does "who I'm related to" have a non-corrupt genuine bearing on whether I've broken a law and deserve citation for my (in)actions?
Being stopped by cops is about far more than a traffic violation. Traffic stops are the points at which police most often interact with the public. A cop has to decide how much work to put into a stop, how much non-traffic procedure to follow. Is the person dangerous? Do I need to call for backup before proceeding? Do I check to see if the car is stolen? Do I check for license and insurance? Do I check for warrants? Do I check for out-of-state warrants? Is there an immigration issue? Each extends the stop, which nobody wants. A card that proves a person is employed in certain jobs (military) or is friends with a local officer will cause most cops to save time by not running through all the checks they might otherwise run.
Two people go through border security, one just a random person and the other is carrying a military passport. One will breeze through security and the other might not.
Two people go through border security, one just a random person and the other is carrying a military passport. One will breeze through security and the other might not.
You answered a question I didn't ask, which is "what biases are present in the system that exists today". Whether any of what you describe is either just or justified is still not discussed.
Why *should* a military passport (or my relative is a cop, or my government ID, or my Boy Scout badge, or my jacket patch for that band you love, or my sports jersey, or my bumper sticker) alter how someone evaluates whether I have broken a law or pose a security threat?
I'm not asking why fallible, busy, and sometimes immoral people behave as if it does. I'm asking why it should.
Why *should* a military passport (or my relative is a cop, or my government ID, or my Boy Scout badge, or my jacket patch for that band you love, or my sports jersey, or my bumper sticker) alter how someone evaluates whether I have broken a law or pose a security threat?
I'm not asking why fallible, busy, and sometimes immoral people behave as if it does. I'm asking why it should.
> military family cards? ABA cards? How about cards from political parties?
Does any of these allow someone to break the law with impunity?
Does any of these allow someone to break the law with impunity?
Do any of these things allow you to commit a crime or civil infraction?
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That is nonsense. The cards have no non-corrupt reasons to exist.
Yep.
There are lots of rotten police, and rotten police practices, in American. And many other nations.
Obsessing over these cards, because they're oh-so-visual and push people's buttons, is a "whack any white mole, which appears in this specific spot, if the sun is currently shining here" approach.
Maybe it feels good, and success is incredibly easy - the moles learn fast - but it won't do squat to reduce your yard's horrible mole problem.
There are lots of rotten police, and rotten police practices, in American. And many other nations.
Obsessing over these cards, because they're oh-so-visual and push people's buttons, is a "whack any white mole, which appears in this specific spot, if the sun is currently shining here" approach.
Maybe it feels good, and success is incredibly easy - the moles learn fast - but it won't do squat to reduce your yard's horrible mole problem.
This seems like something that an ambitious lawyer might pick up as a class action, since the very nature of these cards creates a class that benefits at the expense of a different class. Might be difficult to establish a fiduciary obligation, but I’m sure a gifted legal mind could find a way and an accounting.
These cards are distributed by the police union. I can see it being argued that restricting distribution of these cards would be akin to restricting speech of the union.
I appreciate the down votes for an unpopular opinion. Can associations give out membership cards? That's the fundamental issue and given the constitutional protection of free association I think it would be tough to argue against.
Hmmm… yeah I can see the problem there, and the “perks” while heavily implied are ephemeral from an organisational standpoint. So probably a no-go.
You know what definitely doesn’t exist? Fake versions of these cards.
There’s no way an enterprising college student would ever charge $25 for a knockoff get out of jail free card.
Sarcasm aside, we are one nation under law. The NYPD needs to step up and accept the moral authority they’ve been given…they’re like an older brother to the other police departments in the country and they are watching.
There’s no way an enterprising college student would ever charge $25 for a knockoff get out of jail free card.
Sarcasm aside, we are one nation under law. The NYPD needs to step up and accept the moral authority they’ve been given…they’re like an older brother to the other police departments in the country and they are watching.
That there is so much discretion at the roadside is the issue. Laws should be enforced uniformly and discretion afforded to the courts.
Those in power are usually either corrupt from the get-go or end up that way. Best example I know of is the power given to governors and the President to pardon crimes, even after a jury trial. Blatent corruption.
It's an interesting question of where we draw the line: diplomatic immunity in the form of embassy plates versus courtesy cards (obviously bad)
The line seems pretty obvious—diplomatic immunity is a trade between sovereign states of "we won't harass your diplomats if you don't harass ours". It has negative repercussions but also has a clear gain for the state's interests.
This is just corruption.
This is just corruption.
Also, even diplomatic immunity has limits.
Well, I'm sure this does too. It wouldn't last very long if someone murdered someone and got out of it because they had a plastic card that said they were a friend of an officer. At some point even NYC would intervene.
You wouldn’t see them not investigate but if he surprised if there wasn’t a quiet effort to write the report to support a self-defense narrative. Conflicts of interest around group loyalty don’t need to be explicit.
Yeah its not like a diplomats wife can hit and kill a motorcyclists flee the scene and then country and on their return then be given a token sentence then have it immediately suspended. Oh wait...https://www.barrons.com/news/us-diplomat-s-wife-gets-suspend...
What an incredibly dishonorable practice. Police should be ashamed to even touch those cards, let alone give them out
The fact that they aren't ashamed at all but instead punish those who don't play along with their corrupt game tells you a whole lot about the NYPD.
It tells me it needs to be refounded. Everyone complicit with this should be removed and punished exemplarily (NY might need to build a couple extra jails for all those people).
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What would happen if everyone had a card? Would it lose its value? Think of it like money. If you just print more does it have less value?
It's not even noble cause corruption.
Graft, plain and simple
Graft, plain and simple
Police will always show some favoritism, but this seems to be a little over the line. I know that my Army Bronze Star license plate has gotten me out of problems before, and I know someone with a Purple Heart plate that pushed the military plate benefit to the limit. I understand the problem, but it is also really nice when it works in your favor.
> I know someone with a Purple Heart plate that pushed the military plate benefit to the limit.
I'd be a little more on-board with the NYPD's cards if you had to get shot in service of the country to possess one.
I'd be a little more on-board with the NYPD's cards if you had to get shot in service of the country to possess one.
You received your Bronze Star plate for service to your country, though, not for giving a cop a discount at a restaurant.
Corruption is always nice when it works in your favor, that's why it exists.
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I can only imagine how many of these are sold, either as a bribe of some flavor, or literally just for hard cash because who doesn't want a get out of jail free card?
They settled this because they didn't want dirty laundry aired, but this should be on headlines in news outlets everywhere. This should outrage people. I want a corrupt cop card too, especially with their badge and name of the offender on them!
Years ago I read about this because they were being resold on ebay commonly, it disgusted me then, it still disgusts me now.
So much for equal rights for all.
They settled this because they didn't want dirty laundry aired, but this should be on headlines in news outlets everywhere. This should outrage people. I want a corrupt cop card too, especially with their badge and name of the offender on them!
Years ago I read about this because they were being resold on ebay commonly, it disgusted me then, it still disgusts me now.
So much for equal rights for all.
One set of rules for the ruled and another for the rulers. This is well known, what’s new here?
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Modern day Frank Serpico. I don't know why people in the comments are surprised this exists. I am sure there are many honest people in the police forces (around the world), but not all of them join because of some higher calling for justice and order. It's just a job, and jobs come with perks, in this case being above the law for minor things. If you disagree with that, then do something about it when you're in the position to.
Maybe not all of us are Americans?
Although America does have a particular problem in that its police forces are descended from strike breakers and slave hunters, which is not a good recipe for how to achieve Peelian Policing†, it's far from alone in terms of the results.
† Robert Peel was a Tory politician who founded the Metropolitan Police. Peel did a bunch of criminal reform stuff and one of his ideas was what we'd today called "Policing By Consent". As you may have noticed Britain's police don't (on the whole) have guns or armoured vehicles, they aren't paramilitaries or armed gangs, the only way they can be effective is if the community being policed consents to their activities and sees them as legitimate.
† Robert Peel was a Tory politician who founded the Metropolitan Police. Peel did a bunch of criminal reform stuff and one of his ideas was what we'd today called "Policing By Consent". As you may have noticed Britain's police don't (on the whole) have guns or armoured vehicles, they aren't paramilitaries or armed gangs, the only way they can be effective is if the community being policed consents to their activities and sees them as legitimate.
I am not American either. What I wrote came as a direct observation and personal contact with non-american police, in two different countries.
Give him a promotion.
This is 100% corruption. No doubt these are also sold by some cops