Tuberculosis is rising in the U.S. again. How did we get here?(nationalgeographic.com)
nationalgeographic.com
Tuberculosis is rising in the U.S. again. How did we get here?
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/us-tuberculosis-tb-rates-rising
77 comments
Its cool that so many people are blaming immigrants and foreign policy and border policy instead of the lack of accessibility to healthcare and affordable treatments or accessibility to preventative care.
We truly are in the fuck you and it’s your fault I don’t have mine era.
We truly are in the fuck you and it’s your fault I don’t have mine era.
https://www.newsweek.com/illegal-immigrant-tuberculosis-loui...
It's easier to blame people for being incredibly irresponsible when we have an example of them doing so.
It's easier to blame people for being incredibly irresponsible when we have an example of them doing so.
The US spends more on public healthcare per capita than any nation on the planet. (We also spend a lot more privately). I think this is a very and incorrect point of blame that has no basis in reality.
Are you sure the US isn't just spending a lot on a private healthcare predatory system, not healthcare per se ?
Your "this" is obscure. Do you mean it to address the parent's comment about affordable treatments?
Us natural born citizens need the freedom to spread TB, if we want to!
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/washington-woman-...
> We truly are in the fuck you and it’s your fault I don’t have mine era
Yes, but please don't blame people for feeling that way. People don't feel safe.
When people are insecure, they look to authoritarians for simple solutions. And both major political parties are happy to oblige.
When people are secure, they can care more about other people and issues beyond themselves. But they have to feel safe first. Unfortunately, lack of safety is something people can campaign on and campaigning on "things are good enough already" just never works - even when it's true.
We are in an era where we keep giving up more and more of our civil rights for a promised safety that is never delivered.
Yes, but please don't blame people for feeling that way. People don't feel safe.
When people are insecure, they look to authoritarians for simple solutions. And both major political parties are happy to oblige.
When people are secure, they can care more about other people and issues beyond themselves. But they have to feel safe first. Unfortunately, lack of safety is something people can campaign on and campaigning on "things are good enough already" just never works - even when it's true.
We are in an era where we keep giving up more and more of our civil rights for a promised safety that is never delivered.
Lately, I often think about that drawing where three people are at a table. A blue-collar worker (mine worker or construction worker), a black sad looking black person (immigrant), and a rich guy in suit.
The blue collar worker has a single cookie on his plate, the immigrant no cookies at all, and the rich guy a plate full of cookies. The rich guy with his plate full of cookies, looking at the worker, points to the immigrant. “He wants your cookie”.
The blue collar worker has a single cookie on his plate, the immigrant no cookies at all, and the rich guy a plate full of cookies. The rich guy with his plate full of cookies, looking at the worker, points to the immigrant. “He wants your cookie”.
[deleted]
The US taxpayer should not be paying for immigrants' healthcare expenses.
This is a dumb statement. Immigrants pay taxes as well
No immigrant who turns up at the US border has paid any taxes or contributed anything to US society. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Anyway, that wasn't the point. The point is that if you enter a foreign country it's your responsibility not to bring any diseases with you.
> No immigrant who turns up at the US border has paid any taxes or contributed anything to US society. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise.
Are you trying to tell me that until someone becomes a citizen in the US, they pay no taxes whatsoever? I find that hard to believe.
Are you trying to tell me that until someone becomes a citizen in the US, they pay no taxes whatsoever? I find that hard to believe.
> Are you trying to tell me that until someone becomes a citizen in the US, they pay no taxes whatsoever?
No, that's not what I'm saying.
No, that's not what I'm saying.
> No immigrant who turns up at the US border has paid any taxes or contributed anything to US society. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Anyway, that wasn't the point. The point is that if you enter a foreign country it's your responsibility not to bring any diseases with you.
This is so laughably silly I don't even know where to begin.
First of all, I was a temporary immigrant to the US and I immediately was on the hook for a bunch of money as part of my visa application process. So immediately I'd argue your first point is incorrect on that technicality anyway, not to mention I was basically moving to the US to start a business so then spent the next two years dumping money into the economy.
What is your expectation of responsibility here? You can be sick and not know you're sick. You can be sick and asymptomatic. You can be sick and think you're sick with something basic like a cold but it's actually the flu or COVID or something else more sinister.
Pretending that anyone is going to adhere to an undefined system of responsibility at the best of times, let alone when it comes to moving overseas into a different country, seems ludicrous to me - I'm supposed to cancel might flight and re-arrange my immigration plans because I have a runny nose?
If you want to have a healthy country you need publicly accessible healthcare for everyone. We literally just had an object lesson in this with the COVID pandemic - indeed, we're still in the middle of the object lesson, where people's sense of "responsibility" towards others when it comes to communicable diseases is visible everywhere you look.
This is so laughably silly I don't even know where to begin.
First of all, I was a temporary immigrant to the US and I immediately was on the hook for a bunch of money as part of my visa application process. So immediately I'd argue your first point is incorrect on that technicality anyway, not to mention I was basically moving to the US to start a business so then spent the next two years dumping money into the economy.
What is your expectation of responsibility here? You can be sick and not know you're sick. You can be sick and asymptomatic. You can be sick and think you're sick with something basic like a cold but it's actually the flu or COVID or something else more sinister.
Pretending that anyone is going to adhere to an undefined system of responsibility at the best of times, let alone when it comes to moving overseas into a different country, seems ludicrous to me - I'm supposed to cancel might flight and re-arrange my immigration plans because I have a runny nose?
If you want to have a healthy country you need publicly accessible healthcare for everyone. We literally just had an object lesson in this with the COVID pandemic - indeed, we're still in the middle of the object lesson, where people's sense of "responsibility" towards others when it comes to communicable diseases is visible everywhere you look.
You didn't pay any taxes. Paying for your visa application is not a tax. Your sense of entitlement is sickening. The US does NOT owe you anything.
You said "paid any taxes or contributed anything". I'm just pointing out that you're wrong, right out of the gate.
And even if you were right, which you're not, you'd be wrong about 10 minutes after the average immigrant turns up when they first have to buy something and pay sales tax.
The "sense of entitlement" exists in your head. I'm noting that if you want to have a healthy society, a plan to look after sick people is a necessity. Your sort of thinking is exactly why almost one in three hundred Americans died in the first year of the pandemic.
FWIW I left the US for the UK in 2016. Before arriving there I had to pay into their national health insurance scheme. If you object to immigrants coming and not paying their way you could agitate for such a scheme. But I assume that's not the point.
Anyway, looks like you're going to get what you want and nobody is going to come to the US any more. You'll get to see what it's like when it works like that.
And even if you were right, which you're not, you'd be wrong about 10 minutes after the average immigrant turns up when they first have to buy something and pay sales tax.
The "sense of entitlement" exists in your head. I'm noting that if you want to have a healthy society, a plan to look after sick people is a necessity. Your sort of thinking is exactly why almost one in three hundred Americans died in the first year of the pandemic.
FWIW I left the US for the UK in 2016. Before arriving there I had to pay into their national health insurance scheme. If you object to immigrants coming and not paying their way you could agitate for such a scheme. But I assume that's not the point.
Anyway, looks like you're going to get what you want and nobody is going to come to the US any more. You'll get to see what it's like when it works like that.
Look, I object to the idea that the host country is responsible for the spread of diseases that are brought by immigrants, which is what you're implying when you blame the spread of diseases on the lack of affordable healthcare. I didn't know this was controversial.
It's totally normal for countries to screen for this stuff both at border entry and as part of the immigration process. In Australia we check at the border if you're coming from a country where they have certain diseases (e.g. yellow fever). If you're applying for some immigration status you need medical checks if you're from certain countries to screen you for certain conditions (e.g. tuberculosis).
It is absolutely the host country's responsibility to do this to keep their own citizens safe.
It is absolutely the host country's responsibility to do this to keep their own citizens safe.
They can keep their citizens safe by simply not accepting migrants from these countries.
This is an article from May 2024 about a CDC report published in March. The report itself is more insightful: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/73/wr/mm7312a4.htm
TB was basicallty gone from the US.
Until we accepted millions of unscreened people from outside the US where TB was more common.
Until we accepted millions of unscreened people from outside the US where TB was more common.
If that were true, other countries would have the same experience.
We have ~20% immigrant population, yet TB cases have been decreasing since at least 2016. (rates since at least 2009?)
Why do you think your hypothesis would be stronger than TFA's?
We have ~20% immigrant population, yet TB cases have been decreasing since at least 2016. (rates since at least 2009?)
Why do you think your hypothesis would be stronger than TFA's?
Here are number of TB cases in the US and rate/100k from 1953 through 2023. I don't see any time in there were it was basically gone.
year cases rate/100k
2023 9615 2.9
2022 8331 2.5
2021 7870 2.4
2020 7171 2.2
2019 8895 2.7
2018 8997 2.8
2017 9069 2.8
2016 9239 2.9
2015 9538 3.0
2014 9381 2.9
2013 9513 3.0
2012 9906 3.2
2011 10471 3.4
2010 11069 3.6
2009 11491 3.7
2008 12943 4.3
2007 13276 4.4
2006 13720 4.6
2005 14053 4.8
2004 14498 5.0
2003 14835 5.1
2002 15054 5.2
2001 15946 5.6
2000 16309 5.8
1999 17494 6.3
1998 18288 6.6
1997 19753 7.2
1996 21212 7.9
1995 22727 8.5
1994 24207 9.2
1993 25105 9.7
1992 26673 10.4
1991 26283 10.4
1990 25701 10.3
1989 23495 9.5
1988 22436 9.2
1987 22517 9.3
1986 22768 9.5
1985 22201 9.3
1984 22255 9.4
1983 23846 10.2
1982 25520 11.0
1981 27373 11.9
1980 27749 12.2
1979 27669 12.3
1978 28521 12.8
1977 30145 13.7
1976 32105 14.7
1975 33989 15.7
1974 30122 14.1
1973 30998 14.6
1972 32882 15.7
1971 35217 17.0
1970 37137 18.1
1969 39120 19.3
1968 42623 21.2
1967 45647 23.0
1966 47767 24.3
1965 49016 25.2
1964 50874 26.5
1963 54042 28.6
1962 53315 28.6
1961 53726 29.2
1960 55494 30.7
1959 57535 32.4
1958 63534 36.3
1957 67149 39.0
1956 69895 41.4
1955 77368 46.6
1954 79775 48.9
1953 84304 52.6
People travel, and being sick does not stop them. Testing does not always stop them. We learned this from the rapid spread of Covid across the globe.
Unless you plan to lockdown the country entirely, preventing people traveling is not an effective approach.
Unless you plan to lockdown the country entirely, preventing people traveling is not an effective approach.
It's not "people traveling" as this phrase is commonly understood, that is the issue; it's "relocation of 5% of a small country's population (Nicaragua for example) into the USA".
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2746906/#:~:text=Mo....
>Most tuberculosis (TB) cases in the US are diagnosed in foreign-born persons, and undocumented foreign-born may face particular barriers to timely access to health services.
>Most tuberculosis (TB) cases in the US are diagnosed in foreign-born persons, and undocumented foreign-born may face particular barriers to timely access to health services.
When leaving the USA, getting TB vaccine is highly recommended and (at least in my experience) free and easy. I think it's fairly clear GP meant folks coming into the USA, and not for short periods, from areas that are not able to supply vaccines regularly.
This very well might be an issue. UNICEF and other aid organizations work dilligently to eradicate TB and other poverty-adjacent diseases, so perhaps individuals and the US Gov should increase their aid to other nations.
This very well might be an issue. UNICEF and other aid organizations work dilligently to eradicate TB and other poverty-adjacent diseases, so perhaps individuals and the US Gov should increase their aid to other nations.
Ah yes. People didn’t travel before 2020, and that’s why we didn’t have TB back then.
TB is a disease of poverty, it doesn't spread that easily, but the risk goes up for people in overcrowded living situations and for those who are chronically malnourished.
It's not a great surprise that one would find TB in cross-border migrants, but it's an indictment of the system that the disease continues to spread over here.
Next up: lepra, also caused by a mycobacterium
It's not a great surprise that one would find TB in cross-border migrants, but it's an indictment of the system that the disease continues to spread over here.
Next up: lepra, also caused by a mycobacterium
> lepra, also caused by a mycobacterium
yup, and also due to those pesky immigrants!
oh, but wait! it is actually endemic among native armadillos (USA) and native red squirrels (UK) - you almost never see a red squirrel in the UK, so don't worry.
yup, and also due to those pesky immigrants!
oh, but wait! it is actually endemic among native armadillos (USA) and native red squirrels (UK) - you almost never see a red squirrel in the UK, so don't worry.
[deleted]
Eh. My mother had TB as a kid and lost her childhood best friend to it. Homegrown Americans in a rather pale area.
My brother-in-law in the Philippines died from it in 2021. My own brother nearly died from it in the 1950's, was treated for 2 years. Our dad worked 2 FT jobs for years to pay the medical bills. He later suffered from 2 heart attacks but made it through thank God.
The Philippines has "XDR TB" as well, the extremely drug resistant form. It is sometimes found in a different part of the lung (higher up) and thus not every radiologist will catch it, either.
I wasn't aware of that detail, thank you.
Simple:
1. CDC Funding Cuts
2. antibiotic resistance and not profitable to look for other "cures".
3. Poor Health Care Insurance in the US. People do not want to go to the Doctor for fear of the bill.
4. Anti-science trend in the US. The last election seemed to prove it is approaching 50%
1. CDC Funding Cuts
2. antibiotic resistance and not profitable to look for other "cures".
3. Poor Health Care Insurance in the US. People do not want to go to the Doctor for fear of the bill.
4. Anti-science trend in the US. The last election seemed to prove it is approaching 50%
[deleted]
I’d think the answer here is rather simple… Americans are extremely unhealthy, eat garbage, don’t get sun or exercise, don’t sleep enough, and therefore have weakened immune systems. The last of those appears to be a rather significant indicator for immune health btw, so make sure you’re sleeping enough.
It is true that sufficient exercise can boost the immune system to where it can fight off a chesty invasion within a few hours, but the level of exercise required for a sufficient effect is intense exercise daily, not just moderate exercise, but also without going overboard to the point where it is a detriment. And yes, I agree about the other factors, but they're insufficient without intense exercise.
We all know how we got there. Trust in everything has been destroyed including life saving treatments, vaccinations and working interventions.
Legal immigrants are screened for TB if they are from high risk countries. The illegal immigrants don't get screened and are the sole cause of the explosion of TB cases in the US. Stop putting your head in the sand.
What about vaccines? In the UK we all have a scar from BCG vaccine
Its not given routinely anymore in the UK, since the likelihood of infection is so low.
If you’re at higher risk you can still get it.
https://www.nhs.uk/vaccinations/bcg-vaccine-for-tuberculosis...
https://www.nhs.uk/vaccinations/bcg-vaccine-for-tuberculosis...
Stay safe!
[deleted]
rustcleaner(4)
This all makes it very difficult/impossible to eradicate.
Speaking as an ex TB lab technician, but not for a long time past.