Disco Elysium Explorer(134.0.119.41)
134.0.119.41
Disco Elysium Explorer
http://134.0.119.41
122 comments
It's so impressive, similarly I also love the game Pentiment by Obsidian, some incredibly complex branching conversations in there. I recently watched a video where the game director Josh Sawyer (of fallout new vegas fame) walks through some conversations in Obsidians own dialog software.
https://youtu.be/u9WFmMY5oyY?si=ruJcmYey8hAiKWDR&t=640
https://youtu.be/u9WFmMY5oyY?si=ruJcmYey8hAiKWDR&t=640
Can also wholeheartedly endorse Alpha Protocol, also by Obsidian. A must play for anyone who feels RPGs are more than a few skill trees and binary choices, the way AP manages to interweave a massive complex conversations tree with the way players handle the action sequences is frankly second to none.
To quote Ben Yahtzee Croshaws review[0] from back then:
“For once, this is a game that claims that "every action has consequences" and actually means a consequence more significant than a character maybe wearing a different hat. For example, although the hub-based mission system lets you do the operations in any order, during the one I chose to do last, an informant mentioned the previous operations I'd completed in conversation. "Fuck", I said, "this game's just showing off now." So I immediately became an aggressive ponce and slammed his head into a desk. After which, there was more security in my next mission because the informant went crying to his big brother or something.”
[0] https://youtu.be/K9ZkY-6M5qw?si=IWrCsJqo35p25n23
To quote Ben Yahtzee Croshaws review[0] from back then:
“For once, this is a game that claims that "every action has consequences" and actually means a consequence more significant than a character maybe wearing a different hat. For example, although the hub-based mission system lets you do the operations in any order, during the one I chose to do last, an informant mentioned the previous operations I'd completed in conversation. "Fuck", I said, "this game's just showing off now." So I immediately became an aggressive ponce and slammed his head into a desk. After which, there was more security in my next mission because the informant went crying to his big brother or something.”
[0] https://youtu.be/K9ZkY-6M5qw?si=IWrCsJqo35p25n23
Alpha Protocol is a very flawed if intriguing game. The player needs to understand that it's more RPG than Metal Gear Solid. If you invest all your points into stealth, you can perform superhuman feats of cloaking by the end of the game. By the same token, however, you can perfectly line up a headshot on your aiming reticle and still miss, because the backend dice-roll said you missed.
With that said, I agree, the dialogue choices and "consequences" blew away everything else in the genre. In that sense, it felt like it better captured the spirit of the original Deus Ex over even its spiritual successor, Deus Ex: Human Revolution.
At the end of the first mission in Alpha Protocol, you confront a terrorist, and can choose to either kill him or let him go. If you let him go, he becomes a contact that you can call upon in later points of the game. He might give you information, assist on a mission, etc. It has a real payoff for keeping him alive.
In Deus Ex: Human Revolution, you are also confronted with a terrorist at the end of the first mission, and can decide to kill him or spare him. If you decide to spare him, he shows up in an alley later in the game and...gives you some money. That's it.
DE:HR was the far more polished game, overall, but it didn't understand "consequences" very well.
With that said, I agree, the dialogue choices and "consequences" blew away everything else in the genre. In that sense, it felt like it better captured the spirit of the original Deus Ex over even its spiritual successor, Deus Ex: Human Revolution.
At the end of the first mission in Alpha Protocol, you confront a terrorist, and can choose to either kill him or let him go. If you let him go, he becomes a contact that you can call upon in later points of the game. He might give you information, assist on a mission, etc. It has a real payoff for keeping him alive.
In Deus Ex: Human Revolution, you are also confronted with a terrorist at the end of the first mission, and can decide to kill him or spare him. If you decide to spare him, he shows up in an alley later in the game and...gives you some money. That's it.
DE:HR was the far more polished game, overall, but it didn't understand "consequences" very well.
Yeah I love Alpha Protocol, did you see the remaster they put out (DRM free!) on GoG last year, for me it was honestly one of the most exciting things that happened in gaming last year.
https://youtu.be/UBXbrofwKwM
https://youtu.be/UBXbrofwKwM
Honestly the first time I ever bought a game right on release day, cause I knew of the quality and wanted to support both GoG and hopefully in a small way signal to the industry that I want more of this in gaming.
Coincidentally, I just got Pentiment, and I've spent the entire weekend on it. I'm not really a gamer, and I'm enjoying the heck out of it. The art is gorgeous.
Enjoy it! One of my favorite games of the past couple years. Loved it
Thank you!
It's not much of a "game"... which is fine with me, because I'm not much of a gamer.
When I'm done I may go try Disco Elysium again. I tried once before, and got myself to an ending very, very quickly -- one that my friend had no idea was even an option.
It's not much of a "game"... which is fine with me, because I'm not much of a gamer.
When I'm done I may go try Disco Elysium again. I tried once before, and got myself to an ending very, very quickly -- one that my friend had no idea was even an option.
I would also recommend Night in the Woods, it was a big inspiration for the 'gameplay' of Pentiment. mostly just walking through a world, talking to people with some minor minigames thrown in.
It is a great achievement in story-driven games, but there are still glaring ways in which you can get softlocked, and hilarious ways of "winning" it in less than 1 hour.
I am pretty sure one could implement a mechanized, exhaustive checks for this kind of issues (well, at least the game-breaking soft locks) but no-one ever cared so far (:
I am pretty sure one could implement a mechanized, exhaustive checks for this kind of issues (well, at least the game-breaking soft locks) but no-one ever cared so far (:
Not related, but by googling for Articy:draft I've found there is a new Syberia game.
Is something more supposed to show up? Am I supposed to figure out what to do? https://i.postimg.cc/3NWtz6HF/image.png
It's not a great UI, especially on mobile.
Start by expanding the Search Dialogs section and type in a search term, then hit Search. Then click on one of the numeric results. Nothing will happen, but if you now expand the Build Conversation section, this will have filled a Conversation ID onto the appropriate box. Or you can input an arbitrary conversation ID into the Build Conversation / Conversation ID box (kelseyfrog posted some good ones).
Either way, if you now click Build Graph, you will get a conversation graph on the right. Red nodes are you speaking, or the voices in your head speaking to you. Yellow nodes are other people speaking (your non skill based voices, like Ancient Reptilian Brain, are also yellow). Blue and purple nodes are flow control (setting and reading variables, skill checks, jumping to other nodes). You can zoom into the graph and click the nodes - for red and yellow nodes, this displays the conversation text in the left sidebar, and lets you listen to the audio.
The graphs don't show actual skill check difficulties, just the results of them being read, and don't seem to show health/morale damage or items being gained/lost.
Quite a remarkable tool, despite the UI.
Start by expanding the Search Dialogs section and type in a search term, then hit Search. Then click on one of the numeric results. Nothing will happen, but if you now expand the Build Conversation section, this will have filled a Conversation ID onto the appropriate box. Or you can input an arbitrary conversation ID into the Build Conversation / Conversation ID box (kelseyfrog posted some good ones).
Either way, if you now click Build Graph, you will get a conversation graph on the right. Red nodes are you speaking, or the voices in your head speaking to you. Yellow nodes are other people speaking (your non skill based voices, like Ancient Reptilian Brain, are also yellow). Blue and purple nodes are flow control (setting and reading variables, skill checks, jumping to other nodes). You can zoom into the graph and click the nodes - for red and yellow nodes, this displays the conversation text in the left sidebar, and lets you listen to the audio.
The graphs don't show actual skill check difficulties, just the results of them being read, and don't seem to show health/morale damage or items being gained/lost.
Quite a remarkable tool, despite the UI.
It doesn't seem to work on Firefox at all. Not sure if that is what you are bumping in to, but I had to switch to Chrome.
I entered some random stuff and a dialogue graph showed up for me in Firefox release 134.0 and some other firefox-based browser. Not sure how it works exactly though. You sure you tried the exact same input for Chrome and Firefox?
Ah, It is the LocalCDN extension that was blocking some stuff. The dropdown menus weren't working at all. Sometimes I forget to check that. Thanks for the prompt to go back and check.
Same thing happening here. I think it might not be all-browser friendly.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disco_Elysium
> Disco Elysium is a 2019 role-playing video game developed and published by ZA/UM.
> Disco Elysium is a 2019 role-playing video game developed and published by ZA/UM.
For those unfamiliar with the game I would highly recommend it if you are interested in CRPG games with excellent writing. There is a lot of text in this game, but with the most recent version of the game most of it is voice acted. Many lines will stick with you later. It's rare to not be taken by something in the game, as expansive as it is.
For a more general description of the game: you are a detective, you must solve the case, and your fractured psyche will not let you do it alone.
For a more general description of the game: you are a detective, you must solve the case, and your fractured psyche will not let you do it alone.
It's also an atypical videogame in that there's no significant combat mechanics (combat is as rare and exceptional as in real life), and the setting is far from your usual videogame setting (it feels like like alternate history mid-to-late 20th century Eastern block, but it's entirely fictional) and themes (ostensibly a detective game, but leans heavily into political commentary, morality, nostalgia). Despite the bleak setting, it's also super funny at times in both subtle and unsubtle ways.
Honestly, I tried it, but I didn't understand the game.
In my opinion that's part of the game, intentionally so. You're a drunk detective who wakes up from a wicked bender and then has to go figure out how to solve a messed up case. Figuring out how do you even do that, trying and failing, is a great simulation of how being a detective actually is. In other words, figuring out how to play the game is a part of the game.
> figuring out how to play the game is a part of the game.
Well said! I'm 5 hours in the game. This is my third time "trying" the game. I'm glad I stumbled on some random walkthrough on YouTube and really got to know what's in store for me.
The game is about talking to people, that's pretty much it. If you treat the game like an interactive novel it makes sense. The skills and stuff really don't matter, just pick something and enjoy the ride.
It took me about a half dozen tries for it to click with me, but I unfortunately have no idea what it was that caused things to click. I felt like I was banging my head over and over against a wall until I wasn't. It seems like it's one of those high effort, high reward things, but I can't figure out what the effort is.
You're getting downvoted, but I think this is fair.
DE is not a game for everyone. It's a point-and-click adventure game that feels like it is intentionally designed to be obscure and difficult to follow. The game is forcing you to role play as a alcoholic detective who woke up after a bender and has no clue what is going on. You the player are just as clueless about the world as the character you're controlling is.
FWIW, I completed the game four times, and it was only on the fourth play through that I really felt like I understood how to play the game. Not just from a mechanical perspective, but also a how to role play as an alcoholic-detective-who has-no-clue-what's-going-on. IME, the game only truly makes sense when you play the game as Harry would.
There's a point where Kim tells Harry that he's probably a phenomenal detective, as he was able to close an absurd number of cases. And to get the best experience from the game, you have to match Harry's true level of authenticity, intelligence, openness, and assertiveness. You can finish the game as Hobocop, Superstar Cop, or Detective Costeau, and you can blame all the world's problems on communism and you'll solve the mystery, but you won't have the full experience.
DE is not a game for everyone. It's a point-and-click adventure game that feels like it is intentionally designed to be obscure and difficult to follow. The game is forcing you to role play as a alcoholic detective who woke up after a bender and has no clue what is going on. You the player are just as clueless about the world as the character you're controlling is.
FWIW, I completed the game four times, and it was only on the fourth play through that I really felt like I understood how to play the game. Not just from a mechanical perspective, but also a how to role play as an alcoholic-detective-who has-no-clue-what's-going-on. IME, the game only truly makes sense when you play the game as Harry would.
There's a point where Kim tells Harry that he's probably a phenomenal detective, as he was able to close an absurd number of cases. And to get the best experience from the game, you have to match Harry's true level of authenticity, intelligence, openness, and assertiveness. You can finish the game as Hobocop, Superstar Cop, or Detective Costeau, and you can blame all the world's problems on communism and you'll solve the mystery, but you won't have the full experience.
Whats the C in CRPG? I know JRPG but not CRPG...
Computer RPG, as opposed to tabletop RPG. So technically JRPG should be JCRPG.
Originally yes, but I think today it rather means "complex".
No, it means "computer".
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If you haven’t played Disco Elysium, please do, there’s a reason people are so obsessed with it. It’s a novel really.
Some of my all time favorite writing, regardless of medium.
I believe that this game is an artistic masterpiece.
On the first playthrough when I woke up with amnesia, I simply played a cop with amnesia in all of my responses. It was goofy, I annoyed Kim for fun, I beat the game, etc.
On the second playthrough, I chose all of the dialogue options that honestly explained how the character became an alcoholic. It changed the vibe of the whole game to somber, and I was fascinated that the relationship with Kim felt different. It also felt natural to explore all of the lore and sidequests of the game involving the pale in this mood.
And then I went on a completionist binge and found some great social commentary in the "high-net-worth individual" sections.
On the first playthrough when I woke up with amnesia, I simply played a cop with amnesia in all of my responses. It was goofy, I annoyed Kim for fun, I beat the game, etc.
On the second playthrough, I chose all of the dialogue options that honestly explained how the character became an alcoholic. It changed the vibe of the whole game to somber, and I was fascinated that the relationship with Kim felt different. It also felt natural to explore all of the lore and sidequests of the game involving the pale in this mood.
And then I went on a completionist binge and found some great social commentary in the "high-net-worth individual" sections.
At risk of saying too much... I am playing it again right now and am choosing a path of sobriety and contrition and it's been making me think, pray, and cry every night. I'm working on it.
The writing is an exercise in how closely you can toe the line of turning into purple prose without ever crossing it. It's clearly written by somebody who likes words, for other people who like words.
One of the reasons I played using the "Psychological" voiceovers (where the characters are voiced, but not the inner monologue). The skills were to me the purplest element, and the voice acting differed too much from my imagination.
Yeah, it's definitely not for everybody, but the narrator/inner monologue VA work is one of my favourite things about the game.
Very much agreed. When Harry met a certain creature I cried a little. The text and music were so moving.
I don't like anything about the game - writing, art style, characters, UX, voice acting, main storyline... so that opinion exists, too.
In the middle opinions also exist. I thought the worldbuilding and their spin on conversation mechanics was top tier and liked the art, but I also thought that it was oversold with the "open world... let you do almost anything" marketing when the reality is closer to "you're an alcoholic cop character with a defined backstory, who must solve a mystery with a defined ending by negotiating your way through defined checkpoints, but you can act differently towards the characters you need to pump for information and take on a couple of side quest options if you want"
Oh absolutely. I'm entranced by the game, but I wouldn't emphasize that it's an open world, I think that sets unrealistic expectations. It's rather that it's much deeper than the usual point and click games, more like an interactive novel, and with features that let you put different spins on the story. I think if the expectation is a point and click adventure, then the game can deliver, open world is more like Red Dead Redemption.
Okay. I like what they were trying to do in, yes. "The alcoholic detective" is a fun enough archetype, too. But I think they failed at execution on almost everything. The game doesn't even scroll smoothly and the dialog font and colors are ugly, and boy do you look at them a lot.
I definitely liked some things about the game. But what I didn't like is that it's incredibly depressing. There's not enough wry humor (even though it's good humor) to cover up the fact that it's a terribly sad story about a man who's alcoholism has destroyed his ability to comprehend reality. I made it about ten hours in, and deciding to stop there felt like opening a window onto a bright sunny day after being stuck in a menial office job.
I could play for 5 hours then gave up because similar reasons. In situations like this I usually think it should be an acquired taste, but in this case, I'm pretty much confident that I'd have never liked it. UX was the biggest pain point for me BTW.
I thought it was a drag having to schlep around town for a point and click game.
imagine that, in a detective game you are required to poke around and TALK! to people. Crazy idea.
same. the entire thing could have been done similar to a renpy-style visual novel and generally played out the same.
the dialog, trees, and story were the game, everything else was kinda clunky
the dialog, trees, and story were the game, everything else was kinda clunky
You're not alone. From the description it should have been right up my alley — avid reader, including Philip K. Dick, can appreciate weird stuff — but something about the way the protagonist was interacting with other characters sat wrong with me. Perhaps it was the pretending everything was alright whilst suffering from (something induced) amnesia? I'm not sure what exactly irked me. I didn't feel like I wanted to dive into this world. The UX felt underwhelming too.
Perhaps I'll look into it again in a few years time, when I finally finish Factorio.
Perhaps I'll look into it again in a few years time, when I finally finish Factorio.
Once the game started psycoanalysing me I had to put it down. I like reading P. K. Dick, not being a part of his world.
I love the game, but I know a lot of people who don't, for a variety of reasons. They were very opinionated about what kind of game they were trying to make, so you'd expect it to resonate strongly with some people and not at all with others.
I've seen people use it to learn colloquial French. I'll try othetr languages.
I don't know why I haven't played this yet. I absolutely loved Planescape: Torment and Fallout 1 & 2. I already own Disco Elysium. I've just never booted it up yet.
It's such an incredible science fantasy universe, probably my favorite piece of fiction from the past decade.
The political history, nature of reality and shape of the world, even things about how computers ("radiocomputers") work are all fascinating to me. It's a shame what happened to the studio. There deserve to be more stories told in that universe.
The political history, nature of reality and shape of the world, even things about how computers ("radiocomputers") work are all fascinating to me. It's a shame what happened to the studio. There deserve to be more stories told in that universe.
> It's a shame what happened to the studio.
And there's an extremely funny winking self-reference in the game:
https://fayde.co.uk/dialojue/4600609
For context: ZA/UM was, for a time, called Fortress Occident.
And there's an extremely funny winking self-reference in the game:
https://fayde.co.uk/dialojue/4600609
For context: ZA/UM was, for a time, called Fortress Occident.
ZA/UM is also the name of a physical artefact in the Disco Elysium universe. It gets used in the novel Kurvitz wrote: Sacred and Terrible Air.
> ZA/UM was, for a time, called Fortress Occident
Hah! I've spent some time reading trivia about the game recently, but I hadn't come across this. That makes a lot of sense.
Hah! I've spent some time reading trivia about the game recently, but I hadn't come across this. That makes a lot of sense.
I think, even though they are very different games, Disco Elysium has a lot of the same feel as Planescape: Torment. A lot of the same introspection of human nature, philosophy, moral judgment, and wry humour. If you like one, I think you'll like the other.
I played Disco Elysium when it came out and enjoyed it. In particular, I thought the Inland Empire skill was pretty awesome. I can't imagine what the game would be like without the ability to talk to inanimate objects.
I took no Inland Empire but I did love Encyclopedia. Guess I'll have to give it another run....
I loved the way that you'd pass encyclopedia checks in the game and it would give you totally irrelevant information. I think at one point a character tells you she's using a contact mic and the skill check informs you about a boxer called "Contact Mike".
Or in other cases, completely relevant information, like the complete life history and works of Doloros Dei, which is simply unactionable as she has been dead for decades and the church is long-abandoned too.
Contact Mike is one of the most important encyclopedia checks in the game, honestly.
Its one of the few direct hints you get to HDB's backstory before the literal last scene, which can actually give you actionable insight in a couple scenes IIRC.
Its one of the few direct hints you get to HDB's backstory before the literal last scene, which can actually give you actionable insight in a couple scenes IIRC.
i miss my crazy necktie
who tells you to arrest people and take drugs. some friend that is.
Love that this is hosted on a bare IP address. Hack on!
Same, there's something mysterious and intriguing about navigating to bare IPs.
something that also managed to trip my corporate firewall
Another, differently formatted explorer for this data: https://fayde.co.uk/
Very impressive game, one of my all-time favorites. Felt a bit personal because of own struggles with alcohol too. I'm happy that I bought it after they added the voice narration to it, the narrators do a fantastic job bringing the characters alive, and I loved that I could spend in-game points to specialize in insane skills like "being in tune with the city". I'm happy that people talk about the game from time to time, I hope it gets to as many folks as possible.
The story of how the game assets of the developers were stolen via a malicious investor is kinda crazy
The story of this games development would fit perfectly into this game.
Having played the game before and sincerely appreciated it (plowed through the whole 25 or so hours in 2 days), I had no idea the flowcharts for the conversations were quite so complex. It makes sense though, it's a very dynamic game.
This game is right up my alley but it’s so engrossing I always forget to save and lose hours of my progress.
it has auto-save?!
Though there are dead ends, thus needing to save earlier to undo decisions.
There are no dead ends, but it is possible to play yourself into a state that looks like one. Without spoiling anything I would wager you haven't discovered a mechanic that's in the game yet. Figuring out how to play the game is a part of the game. Source: I thought I hit a dead end, but found a different way to approach the problem after a few days of being stuck.
There is, as far as I can tell, one dead end: if you run out of money near the start of the game and have exhausted your options for getting more, then you'll have to revert to an earlier save. It's not particularly easy to do though, in my opinion.
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Unless they've changed it recently, the auto-save seems to only bother firing off every few hours. All three attempts I've made at the game have ended with losing progress to the save system.
yes
And then imagine how each separate converstation can affect another. What a tangled mess this would be to work on.
Conversations 7, 8, 9, and 10 are a great place to start.
495 for one of the rarest ones I've found in the game. Needs 9 Perception on Day 1 to do: https://youtu.be/w9aDmCuyU-4?t=10
A preposterously complex dialogue web for a weird throwaway conversation so few would ever come across. Love this game.
A preposterously complex dialogue web for a weird throwaway conversation so few would ever come across. Love this game.
I really wanted, and tried so hard to like this game. But it just didn't work for me. This visualisation though it very nice and I do wonder what was used to create the graph canvas UI?
I, for one, am a proponent of Mazovian socio-economics.
I love the flavor text for that one.
---
Problem
People think Communism was some crazy idea that had its comeuppance 40 years ago. A fever that shook the world, never to return again. They were right. Until he woke up today – a spiritual corpse responsive only to the call of Commodore Red, prostitutes, and Kras Mazov. For him, Communism is still a thing. He will single-handedly raise the Commune of '02 from the oceanic trench where it has been resting, covered in ghosts and seaweed! He is the Big Communism Builder. Come, witness his attempt to rebuild Communism in the year '51!
Solution
0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin. All he has managed to do is make himself sad. He is starting to suspect Kras Mazov fucked him over personally with his socio-economic theory. It has, however, made him into a very, very smart boy with something like a university degree in Truth. Instead of building Communism, he now builds a precise model of this grotesque, duplicitous world.
---
Problem
People think Communism was some crazy idea that had its comeuppance 40 years ago. A fever that shook the world, never to return again. They were right. Until he woke up today – a spiritual corpse responsive only to the call of Commodore Red, prostitutes, and Kras Mazov. For him, Communism is still a thing. He will single-handedly raise the Commune of '02 from the oceanic trench where it has been resting, covered in ghosts and seaweed! He is the Big Communism Builder. Come, witness his attempt to rebuild Communism in the year '51!
Solution
0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin. All he has managed to do is make himself sad. He is starting to suspect Kras Mazov fucked him over personally with his socio-economic theory. It has, however, made him into a very, very smart boy with something like a university degree in Truth. Instead of building Communism, he now builds a precise model of this grotesque, duplicitous world.
Why the IP though? Is that link safe?
What would make it more secure if it were a domain that gets resolved to an IP address?
giving it a domain-name and serving with https encryption on it would improve all kinds of security.
then again, it feels wonderfully apt that it is on some random ip
then again, it feels wonderfully apt that it is on some random ip
Security of what? You're not inputting any data of your own into the site.
Hypothetically speaking, you can still be MitM'ed.
And then what, serve me fake Disco Elysium dialogs? What's the threat model?
Either pick one of the recent JavaScript sandbox escape CVEs on a vulnerable browser, or redirect to your phishing page as to your liking. Again, hypothetical and very unlikely, but the risks are there.
I wouldn't say I didn't like Disco Elysium, in fact I really enjoyed it in the beginning, when it was more about the case and less about politics. In theory it was really my thing: focus on story, mature, a sense of humour... Planescape: Torment is probably still my favorite game of all time and this looked up that alley.
Alas, once the game gets going I found Disco Elysium way too preachy and it completely lost me. Then I saw that it was scripted in part by the guys in el chapo trap house, which I find insufferable and it all made sense. I really really wish they had done away with all the political stuff, it could have been so good.
Alas, once the game gets going I found Disco Elysium way too preachy and it completely lost me. Then I saw that it was scripted in part by the guys in el chapo trap house, which I find insufferable and it all made sense. I really really wish they had done away with all the political stuff, it could have been so good.
You think Planescape: Torment is non-political? LOL
Agreed: Planescape's faction represents ideologies, philosophies and world (... multiverse?)view and societal view that's political by nature. Their label are just not a 1:1 match with our world.
And in Disco Elysium (in least in my playthrough and my impression) everyone gets criticized equally at some point, even though the writers are nostalgic communist. But it doesn't feel to me like blatant propaganda.
And in Disco Elysium (in least in my playthrough and my impression) everyone gets criticized equally at some point, even though the writers are nostalgic communist. But it doesn't feel to me like blatant propaganda.
It's "political" in quotes. In the sense that there are factions, and they represent mostly evergreen moral and civic ideas either real or fantasy (the religious fanatics, the militaristic autocrats, the death obsessed). Disconnecting them from reality, from the early 21st century political obsessions and framing allows for a much more long lasting approach and, frankly, a lot less preachy.
Since DE takes place in a world that’s meant to very much mirror ours, how would you deemphasis the political content? Would you just replace it with fictional ideologies? The difference with Planescape: Torment is that the latter takes place in Dungeons and Dragons where everything from history to economics to the rules of physics are completely different. Disco Elysium takes place in a much less fantastical world that’s reminiscent of our own; you’re going to end up with familiar conflicts unless you were to inject a lot more fantasy-sci-fi gimmicks to change how life operates there.
I would have not given the scriptwriting to terminally online, politics obsessed people. For DE it looks easy to fix, just don't have so many characters pontificating about communism or whatever, and not so much internal dialog about it. Cut it by 50-70%, be it a minor theme, focus more on the case, done.
>Alas, once the game gets going I found Disco Elysium way too preachy and it completely lost me. Then I saw that it was scripted in part by the guys in el chapo trap house, which I find insufferable and it all made sense. I really really wish they had done away with all the political stuff, it could have been so good.
The union workers are depicted as useful idiots for corrupt scumbags at best and parasites at worst, communists as delusional losers, the moralintern as ultimately functional, yet brutally oppressive. The script does very clearly come from a left-wing side of things, but I feel it shows the most when it comes to leftist ideologies which are brutally criticized.
Funny enough, one of the most liked characters is the unfettered capitalist,which is depicted as far more humane than the general ideologue in the game.
I must assume that you disagree with some or all of this?
The union workers are depicted as useful idiots for corrupt scumbags at best and parasites at worst, communists as delusional losers, the moralintern as ultimately functional, yet brutally oppressive. The script does very clearly come from a left-wing side of things, but I feel it shows the most when it comes to leftist ideologies which are brutally criticized.
Funny enough, one of the most liked characters is the unfettered capitalist,which is depicted as far more humane than the general ideologue in the game.
I must assume that you disagree with some or all of this?
It feels to me that people who don't like it are allergic to political opinions. They want to exist in world where people have no opinions and disagreements,
Disco's world is an amazing melting pot of ideologies, history and clashes of those.
Disco's world is an amazing melting pot of ideologies, history and clashes of those.
It's not about agreeing or disagreeing, it's about the shoving it in your face. It's also done in fairly "modern" ways (modern = juvenile, twitter brain-rot, millennial, culture war-coded, whatever you want to call it).
Can you actually provide solid examples of this. How can a game that is explicitly about political themes and intrigue not shove it in your face.
Honestly there aren't that many games about politics, at least the way I understand "being about politics" so I can't say, and I don't miss that there are more to be honest. Also, I don't think Disco Elysium needed to be about politics, it's technically a murder mystery and in fact for quite a while I was quite happy with the mystery and general world building but at some point the amount of politics increased to an amount it made it not fun anymore.
I agree, if it wasn't so unbearably and unashamedly explicit in its support of one particular ideology I'd have probably really enjoyed it.
What ideology do you think it explicitly supports? I really liked the game, but I thought that it showed character stories, and not particularly an overarching ideology, and now I wonder if I also support something that I don't even know of.
I'd say it's fairly explicit that it was written by people with leftist sympathies and I assume that's what they meant. I don't get how anyone could find their portrayal of leftists very flattering; unless your notion of "leftist" is Biden/Macron/Starmer, I guess.
Not sure how someone could create a world like the one in Disco Elysium without having some kind of political ideology or why anyone would want them to be fixated on moderating themselves to the point of killing any sense of individuality in the work. It'd be like checking out the new Mel Gibson film and being annoyed that it comes across as having a conservative Catholic ideology.
Not sure how someone could create a world like the one in Disco Elysium without having some kind of political ideology or why anyone would want them to be fixated on moderating themselves to the point of killing any sense of individuality in the work. It'd be like checking out the new Mel Gibson film and being annoyed that it comes across as having a conservative Catholic ideology.
> I don't get how anyone could find their portrayal of leftists very flattering; unless your notion of "leftist" is Biden/Macron/Starmer, I guess.
they would be considered "moralists" on the DE scale of politics
they would be considered "moralists" on the DE scale of politics
It might have an appropriate pessimism but it absolutely endorses fully fledged communism in an uninformed college-bro way (as the other commenter noted, akin to chapo trap house).
>It'd be like checking out the new Mel Gibson film and being annoyed that it comes across as having a conservative Catholic ideology
Yes, but I know Mel is a catholic, I knew nothing of ZA/UM beforehand, I wonder if all of its spiritual successors will be tainted in the same way, if so I'll know for the future that their games aren't for me.
>It'd be like checking out the new Mel Gibson film and being annoyed that it comes across as having a conservative Catholic ideology
Yes, but I know Mel is a catholic, I knew nothing of ZA/UM beforehand, I wonder if all of its spiritual successors will be tainted in the same way, if so I'll know for the future that their games aren't for me.
>it absolutely endorses fully fledged communism
I might miss something, but my recollection is that the setting itself is a post-communist revolutionary ruin. Ruin in many ways, we see literal ruins as a visual setting, I don't think there is any piece of building that's intact, and the people are chewed out as well, and often full of some kind of negativity. Many of the game's political discussions flew over my head, but never once have I felt that whatever I'm shown is endorsed in any way, or that any system, like communism, is a good idea. My gathering was that systems usually just grind down the individual, and so, participation is questionable, and value is coming from caring for one another, in a personal way.
I might miss something, but my recollection is that the setting itself is a post-communist revolutionary ruin. Ruin in many ways, we see literal ruins as a visual setting, I don't think there is any piece of building that's intact, and the people are chewed out as well, and often full of some kind of negativity. Many of the game's political discussions flew over my head, but never once have I felt that whatever I'm shown is endorsed in any way, or that any system, like communism, is a good idea. My gathering was that systems usually just grind down the individual, and so, participation is questionable, and value is coming from caring for one another, in a personal way.
You can't engage with media that doesn't fit your political ideology?
I'm replying to this, and risking becoming part of the "HN is turning into Reddit" problem but you raise a fair point, I enjoy the works of China Mieville despite not sharing his beliefs.
I wonder if it's perhaps the requirement that I actively engage in activities that I would ideologically object to in reality, for the sake of someone else's narrative, but that also seems spurious as I have no real issue with participating in the mass-murders of titles like Grand Theft Auto...DE just rubbed me the wrong way, even if some of the mechanisms were intriguing, maybe it's the smugness oozing from it which again brings us back to Mieville.
I guess I just didn't like DE and I have trouble reconciling that with the expectation that I would like it...because it very much seems like something I would like.
I wonder if it's perhaps the requirement that I actively engage in activities that I would ideologically object to in reality, for the sake of someone else's narrative, but that also seems spurious as I have no real issue with participating in the mass-murders of titles like Grand Theft Auto...DE just rubbed me the wrong way, even if some of the mechanisms were intriguing, maybe it's the smugness oozing from it which again brings us back to Mieville.
I guess I just didn't like DE and I have trouble reconciling that with the expectation that I would like it...because it very much seems like something I would like.
Yeah that makes sense, I thought after posting that it isn't a fair comparison when going in blind.
Not sure what it says about me or media in general these days, but I seem to never encounter anything now without knowing something about the politics of its creators so I didn't encounter it at all blind.
Wouldn't say it endorses it so much as dreams of it (or maybe longs for something like the hope it provided in the past when the ideas were new), I get that that's a very muddy perspective though.
Wouldn't say it endorses it so much as dreams of it (or maybe longs for something like the hope it provided in the past when the ideas were new), I get that that's a very muddy perspective though.
Since my team also made a story driven game using Articy that far less complex than Disco Elysium, but still complex. After we done it I can say for sure that whoever written Disco Elysium is trully insane, in a good way. While Articy is a good tool it's have own set of problems specifically awful performance on huge projects and I can't even imagine how developers of Disco Elysium managed to accompish it.
So I pretty sure Disco Elysium isn't just masterpiece of storytelling and writing, but also insane technical achievement of whoever managed to get it all working together using tools they had. Even on a project of much smaller scale getting it all debugged, loop-free and free of tons of logical errors is very hard. Knowing how much variables Disco Elysium have I truly believe developers are all geniuses.
PS: It's just everyone always wonder at how cool and complex modern rendering is or performance in game with millions of objects, but very few people understand how hard is to create story-driven game if there is more than 10 variables and not just int skill checks.