Ask HN: I'm depressed, what should I do?
68 comments
I don't know you, but I'm proud of you. And frankly, you should be very proud of yourself. Want to know why?
Writing this demonstrates something very important about your character. When you feel backed into a corner, you don't just hide away and hope that the situation passes. Instead, you fight to get yourself out of the situation. This is huge and frankly, this trait will serve you well in the future.
Other people have given you some wonderful, actionable advice and I don't want to repeat their words, so I'll cut it off there. But seriously, be proud of yourself.
Everything will work out and you will be okay. If you feel stuck, my email address is in my profile - reach out and I'll help you however I can.
Be safe.
Writing this demonstrates something very important about your character. When you feel backed into a corner, you don't just hide away and hope that the situation passes. Instead, you fight to get yourself out of the situation. This is huge and frankly, this trait will serve you well in the future.
Other people have given you some wonderful, actionable advice and I don't want to repeat their words, so I'll cut it off there. But seriously, be proud of yourself.
Everything will work out and you will be okay. If you feel stuck, my email address is in my profile - reach out and I'll help you however I can.
Be safe.
Op here:
Thank you everyone for your input and over all support! This kind of support -and even "tough love"- reminds me why I love being a member of this community.
You're right, reading about people changing the world, and SF salaries with my school bubble distorted my vision.
I will send an email to the company that said will wait for me, and continue to apply elsewhere and accept the first decent offer (where I can get experience with a compensation that would let me pay for rent and food).
I will also try to do some self-help using the materials shared here and try to fight off the dark feelings.
I will also probably tap into my savings and move back to the city where I used to live ASAP.
Thank you again all for your support. I know it is not resolved, but at least now I know what I need to do.
Thank you everyone for your input and over all support! This kind of support -and even "tough love"- reminds me why I love being a member of this community.
You're right, reading about people changing the world, and SF salaries with my school bubble distorted my vision.
I will send an email to the company that said will wait for me, and continue to apply elsewhere and accept the first decent offer (where I can get experience with a compensation that would let me pay for rent and food).
I will also try to do some self-help using the materials shared here and try to fight off the dark feelings.
I will also probably tap into my savings and move back to the city where I used to live ASAP.
Thank you again all for your support. I know it is not resolved, but at least now I know what I need to do.
It seems reasonable that you are suffering some form of depression, even if it is transitory in nature. Good part is that makes you human and no better or worse then anyone else.
Just my 2 cents, but this is part of what becoming independent is all about, you have to make decisions based on the information you have and not focus on the next great thing all the time, nor allow yourself to be insulated in your thoughts so much. Your reality should be, if you received offers all around the same rough compensation, then that is likely the going rate for a new grad with your skill set and presentation in the areas you applied. Accept the best one with the team you feel you fit best with (that is more important then raw compensation) and move forward. You can always change later as you gain some experience. Don't wait for the perfect solution right now, move forward and change if you need to later.
You are still really fresh out of school so you can still accept a reasonable offer and the faster you start contributing to a team the faster you will feel better. Get focused, get organized and accept your reality so that you can change it. I don't care what your reality is, it is always changeable by you. Other people can help, but in the end you are the only one that can act to change your circumstance.
If you need to go see someone to talk through how you feel, do it, don't hesitate. There are too many people afraid to seek out help, go do it, celebrate that you are enlightened enough to recognize it and get the little extra guidance. Most of the time it is that simple, talking it out with someone who has empathy but can help lead you on a path to pull yourself up. You don't sound like you are in a bad situation, just not where you thought you'd be, so it is far easier to fix today then 3, 6, 9 months from now if you do nothing.
Take care, good luck.
Just my 2 cents, but this is part of what becoming independent is all about, you have to make decisions based on the information you have and not focus on the next great thing all the time, nor allow yourself to be insulated in your thoughts so much. Your reality should be, if you received offers all around the same rough compensation, then that is likely the going rate for a new grad with your skill set and presentation in the areas you applied. Accept the best one with the team you feel you fit best with (that is more important then raw compensation) and move forward. You can always change later as you gain some experience. Don't wait for the perfect solution right now, move forward and change if you need to later.
You are still really fresh out of school so you can still accept a reasonable offer and the faster you start contributing to a team the faster you will feel better. Get focused, get organized and accept your reality so that you can change it. I don't care what your reality is, it is always changeable by you. Other people can help, but in the end you are the only one that can act to change your circumstance.
If you need to go see someone to talk through how you feel, do it, don't hesitate. There are too many people afraid to seek out help, go do it, celebrate that you are enlightened enough to recognize it and get the little extra guidance. Most of the time it is that simple, talking it out with someone who has empathy but can help lead you on a path to pull yourself up. You don't sound like you are in a bad situation, just not where you thought you'd be, so it is far easier to fix today then 3, 6, 9 months from now if you do nothing.
Take care, good luck.
There is a company that told me that they're still interested in me if I ever change my mind.
The job is basically building a news-web application for a client (hardly solving world hunger or any "real" problem) and the pay will be mostly enough to rent and eat.
Do you really think I should just "suck it up" and do it until something better comes in a few years?
Or should I keep sending emails?
The job is basically building a news-web application for a client (hardly solving world hunger or any "real" problem) and the pay will be mostly enough to rent and eat.
Do you really think I should just "suck it up" and do it until something better comes in a few years?
Or should I keep sending emails?
I'd seriously think about taking it. Even if it is temporary and you decide to move on in 6 months or a year. It isn't ideal in some ways, but it may go a lot further towards helping your mental feeling then you realize.
I'd also agree that you get established with a physician and talk to them. Even a GP can a lot of times help walk you through this while you start your new job etc.
And just cause you take a job doesn't mean you have to stop looking for your passion. Keep up the search but take a job.
I'd also agree that you get established with a physician and talk to them. Even a GP can a lot of times help walk you through this while you start your new job etc.
And just cause you take a job doesn't mean you have to stop looking for your passion. Keep up the search but take a job.
First gigs often suck, they don't know how good you are yet, so the don't let you touch the awesome stuff. Cool firms won't hire juniors? Well go hack some of that shit with these guys until you got a year or 2 under your belt, then you won't be able to keep firms away from you.
On the depression side, I'm just getting out of some shit like that. A couple things that helped: Sun bathing, sounds silly and vain or whatever but most people are vitamin D difficient
A bit of exercise: ride a bike or walk for 20 minutes a day. This is easy, and just enough to get blood moving and what not.
If you drink, take a month off of booze.
36 hour fasts every other weak. Basically dinner on day 1 no food day 2 breakfast on day 3. It sucks while you're doing but it'll keep your head straight for the next couple days.
There's probably more shit that I've tried, but I do the above on and off. Try one out?
On the depression side, I'm just getting out of some shit like that. A couple things that helped: Sun bathing, sounds silly and vain or whatever but most people are vitamin D difficient
A bit of exercise: ride a bike or walk for 20 minutes a day. This is easy, and just enough to get blood moving and what not.
If you drink, take a month off of booze.
36 hour fasts every other weak. Basically dinner on day 1 no food day 2 breakfast on day 3. It sucks while you're doing but it'll keep your head straight for the next couple days.
There's probably more shit that I've tried, but I do the above on and off. Try one out?
Not the person you asked, but I'd take it. It sounds like not having a job is taking a toll on your mental health. Even if you end up not liking it as you expect, it will likely still give you valuable experience and more information about what you want in your job. For example, you might realize that an interesting stack is less valuable to you than more pay, or vice-versa.
If you don't take it, definitely follow the advice elsewhere in the thread and invest in your health.
I'd also see a doctor about the potential depression. Hopefully, it will go away with the structure of a job, but it's good to be proactive about health. (If you're moving to a new area, you can also establish care with your new GP or primary care physician at the same appointment.)
If you don't take it, definitely follow the advice elsewhere in the thread and invest in your health.
I'd also see a doctor about the potential depression. Hopefully, it will go away with the structure of a job, but it's good to be proactive about health. (If you're moving to a new area, you can also establish care with your new GP or primary care physician at the same appointment.)
less than 0.1% devs ever get to work on any "real" problem. This is not the time to get hung up on ideals. It's time to hustle.
You have your 5pm-9am time to solve world hunger, make a billion dollars and make world a better place...
You have your 5pm-9am time to solve world hunger, make a billion dollars and make world a better place...
You should contact the best offers you got first, rather than just the ones who said they would want you regardless.
Focus on team first, but try to avoid getting fucked too hard on salary, it tends to anchor expectations.
Focus on team first, but try to avoid getting fucked too hard on salary, it tends to anchor expectations.
Wow, all those rejections sound painful. I'm sorry.
So a few things: First, feeling down, rejected, etc., sound pretty normal to me given what you've described. That's not to say that I think that you should simply ride it out, suck it up, etc. If it was that easy there would be a lot less suffering in general. You're clearly cognizant that something's not right, though, and the fact that you're acting on that seems pretty healthy to me.
Try reddit. I can't suggest any specific subs, but I've found the communities that are supportive to be very supportive. If you're struggling with simply reaching out, that's one place I would start.
Yes, please do consider a therapist (or a career coach, etc.). The thing with depression is that it horribly distorts your perspective, and as you've touched on, begins a wicked feedback loop. It can be difficult to dig yourself out of that hole, and digging in can have serious consequences. Getting in touch with someone who can provide accurate information and context about your experience, and how you want to sort things out.
Sunshine and physical activity, as well as getting out in public are excellent moderators of depression. But they're not fixes.
Finally, if you take only one thing from this, I hope it's this: There's nothing wrong with feeling the way you do. There's nothing wrong with seeking out expert opinion on how to manage your life. Depression is manageable, especially episodic depression, such as you describe. Please please don't let yourself fall into the trap of thinking that it's a weakness or a character defect.
I sincerely wish you the best of luck on your journey. Hang in there.
So a few things: First, feeling down, rejected, etc., sound pretty normal to me given what you've described. That's not to say that I think that you should simply ride it out, suck it up, etc. If it was that easy there would be a lot less suffering in general. You're clearly cognizant that something's not right, though, and the fact that you're acting on that seems pretty healthy to me.
Try reddit. I can't suggest any specific subs, but I've found the communities that are supportive to be very supportive. If you're struggling with simply reaching out, that's one place I would start.
Yes, please do consider a therapist (or a career coach, etc.). The thing with depression is that it horribly distorts your perspective, and as you've touched on, begins a wicked feedback loop. It can be difficult to dig yourself out of that hole, and digging in can have serious consequences. Getting in touch with someone who can provide accurate information and context about your experience, and how you want to sort things out.
Sunshine and physical activity, as well as getting out in public are excellent moderators of depression. But they're not fixes.
Finally, if you take only one thing from this, I hope it's this: There's nothing wrong with feeling the way you do. There's nothing wrong with seeking out expert opinion on how to manage your life. Depression is manageable, especially episodic depression, such as you describe. Please please don't let yourself fall into the trap of thinking that it's a weakness or a character defect.
I sincerely wish you the best of luck on your journey. Hang in there.
Why not start a side project? Don't know what to do? I'm sure there is something you use that you could make just as good or better start there.
You don't need a gym, maybe just go for a run near your house to start, less excuses to not do it.
Lastly, have you though of buying a journal? The actual act of writing your thoughts down (vs typing) is therapeutic and may help you to work through some of your emotions
You don't need a gym, maybe just go for a run near your house to start, less excuses to not do it.
Lastly, have you though of buying a journal? The actual act of writing your thoughts down (vs typing) is therapeutic and may help you to work through some of your emotions
// For me it was not about the money, but a show of how much a company appreciate me and how they think of me. //
Never think this. Never assume this.
Talking to a company about salary is a business transaction. It's a negotiation. Unless you're somehow at the type of unicorn where they're not only small, but already have a lot of $$ (basically nothing out there right now) there isn't going to be any amount of "oh yeah, we like you" that will significantly impact your compensation.
// However, all of the offer were with not-that-interesting tech stacks and really bad compensations. // How 'bad' is 'bad' here if you don't mind me asking? Also, mostly startups or what?
Never think this. Never assume this.
Talking to a company about salary is a business transaction. It's a negotiation. Unless you're somehow at the type of unicorn where they're not only small, but already have a lot of $$ (basically nothing out there right now) there isn't going to be any amount of "oh yeah, we like you" that will significantly impact your compensation.
// However, all of the offer were with not-that-interesting tech stacks and really bad compensations. // How 'bad' is 'bad' here if you don't mind me asking? Also, mostly startups or what?
Bad: as in mostly for rent & food, forget about savings.
Details (if it matters): Country: France Yearly salary before taxes : ~31000 euros
Details (if it matters): Country: France Yearly salary before taxes : ~31000 euros
Have you tried looking for remote work? That'll disconnect your location from your salary potential.
https://github.com/lukasz-madon/awesome-remote-job
http://remoteok.io/
https://weworkremotely.com/
https://github.com/lukasz-madon/awesome-remote-job
http://remoteok.io/
https://weworkremotely.com/
Wow that is bad.
Some offers went up to 35000 euros, but only because they put food and some other accommodations in the salary.
First off, I'm so sorry that you're going through this. Please know that you are very much not alone. And yes, seeing a professional is the best route.
Check out http://osmihelp.org. Great group of folks and lots of resources there.
I also gave a talk on this a while back: http://baugues.com/depression
Check out http://osmihelp.org. Great group of folks and lots of resources there.
I also gave a talk on this a while back: http://baugues.com/depression
Thank you for the links
As @hluska said, this is brave to express your feelings, this is a good start.
After 2-3 years down the line you'd be looking at this post, then the problems you have shared will not quite seem actually problems or something to feel depressed about. Hear me out why.
At some point of time we all feel uncertain about things, feel like we have little control over things, we can't decide what is better for us Option A or Option B, too many decisions to make, nothing is going as planned. When you understand that this is what happens to all and a lot frequently than you might have thought, the real fun starts.
You wanted to do a job, you applied, you rejected some offers because you did not consider them good enough. That is just perfectly fine and past. Someone told you that you were good in school, that is also past. You are not your past or your CV. You are now in your present. Focus on what you have now, you have knowledge, you have a family and there can be many more things.
I or anyone should rather not help you in picking up your choices like should you choose the next offer or go look for some other companies. Choose whatever you want, it just fucking doesn't matter. What matters is to choose only one option and do your best to make it happen. Go to a company which does not appreciate you, work hard and earn that appreciation or the second option to figure out a way to find a company where your special skills may get appreciated or any other option you can think of.
Just brush off the shoulder, look what you have, what do you want to achieve in categories mainly health, career, family and relationships. Make a plan for the month with small goals in each category, and do your best to achieve that. Don't have answers to some questions ask, just like you did now. Revise the plan each month, your goal is to do better than the last month.
Outcome may not be in your control but your actions are in your control. And if you are taking actions to achieve your goals, you have all the rights to feel good about it.
Remember life is not a sprint, it's a marathon.
At some point of time we all feel uncertain about things, feel like we have little control over things, we can't decide what is better for us Option A or Option B, too many decisions to make, nothing is going as planned. When you understand that this is what happens to all and a lot frequently than you might have thought, the real fun starts.
You wanted to do a job, you applied, you rejected some offers because you did not consider them good enough. That is just perfectly fine and past. Someone told you that you were good in school, that is also past. You are not your past or your CV. You are now in your present. Focus on what you have now, you have knowledge, you have a family and there can be many more things.
I or anyone should rather not help you in picking up your choices like should you choose the next offer or go look for some other companies. Choose whatever you want, it just fucking doesn't matter. What matters is to choose only one option and do your best to make it happen. Go to a company which does not appreciate you, work hard and earn that appreciation or the second option to figure out a way to find a company where your special skills may get appreciated or any other option you can think of.
Just brush off the shoulder, look what you have, what do you want to achieve in categories mainly health, career, family and relationships. Make a plan for the month with small goals in each category, and do your best to achieve that. Don't have answers to some questions ask, just like you did now. Revise the plan each month, your goal is to do better than the last month.
Outcome may not be in your control but your actions are in your control. And if you are taking actions to achieve your goals, you have all the rights to feel good about it.
Remember life is not a sprint, it's a marathon.
I'm sure I'll get down voted but I'm putting in my anecdotal two cents, regardless.
Are you having sex? Sex is a pretty good remedy for this type of stuff.
Are you having sex? Sex is a pretty good remedy for this type of stuff.
Don't take this the wrong way: I'd be loathe to suggest possibly destructive behavior to someone who is looking for advice on treating a mental health condition.
I know what you're talking about.
And no, not since I moved back with my parents
(I hardly know anyone in the city anymore and I haven't been feeling like going to meet people ever since I did, since I always thought of this as temporary and I would be leaving anytime)
And no, not since I moved back with my parents
(I hardly know anyone in the city anymore and I haven't been feeling like going to meet people ever since I did, since I always thought of this as temporary and I would be leaving anytime)
Now is the time to recognize your motivations and turn them toward something better. Hunting for a job is much like hunting to attract members of the opposite sex:
1) Everybody wants someone who is already taken 2) You can't win unless you play the game 3) To get a 10, you at least need two 5's
Stop thinking of the perfect job and start thinking of ways you can build your experience to get the perfect job. With a little bit of excercise (P90 and Cracking the Coding Interview), some hero moves shown in the right places (pick the job doing something you care about) and a few peeps talking about your moves on the scene (a little open source), you'll be back in the game in no time.
1) Everybody wants someone who is already taken 2) You can't win unless you play the game 3) To get a 10, you at least need two 5's
Stop thinking of the perfect job and start thinking of ways you can build your experience to get the perfect job. With a little bit of excercise (P90 and Cracking the Coding Interview), some hero moves shown in the right places (pick the job doing something you care about) and a few peeps talking about your moves on the scene (a little open source), you'll be back in the game in no time.
Your problems may have just highlighted an issue that already existed. Talk to your doctor. Depression is a medical issue that needs treatment.
It sounds like you have a pretty good idea what your next steps are already.
First, talk to a health professional who can understand and address the nuances of your situation better than anyone on HN.
Second, just consider that there is no perfect tech stack and most people don't know all of the pieces to a company's stack when they join. Perhaps there is a certain language or framework you're passionate about. I would encourage you to seek out companies using that one piece of tech through AngelList, Stack Overflow Jobs, etc.
A third thing to consider is that once you have some experience on paper, it's a huge boost for your next job. Side projects count too.
First, talk to a health professional who can understand and address the nuances of your situation better than anyone on HN.
Second, just consider that there is no perfect tech stack and most people don't know all of the pieces to a company's stack when they join. Perhaps there is a certain language or framework you're passionate about. I would encourage you to seek out companies using that one piece of tech through AngelList, Stack Overflow Jobs, etc.
A third thing to consider is that once you have some experience on paper, it's a huge boost for your next job. Side projects count too.
My very brief 2 cents: Exercise. It's clinically proven to help combat depression. Also, don't worry so much about compensation so early in your career. Experience is worth much more than $ to you at this stage.
Thanks for your response.
I think that exercise would be a good start, so I'll check the local gyms, it would also give me something to occupy me during the days.
About compensation, every piece of advice I got so far was about properly negotiating the first because it does not grow that fast (in Europe).
I think that exercise would be a good start, so I'll check the local gyms, it would also give me something to occupy me during the days.
About compensation, every piece of advice I got so far was about properly negotiating the first because it does not grow that fast (in Europe).
Bodyweight fitness. You are your own gym!
Don't spend the money on a gym membership until you have it.
Another couple things I'd add to what others have said:
Get enough GOOD sleep.
Read. It will help you both with focus, and give your mind a break from the things that are heavy on your heart.
Don't spend the money on a gym membership until you have it.
Another couple things I'd add to what others have said:
Get enough GOOD sleep.
Read. It will help you both with focus, and give your mind a break from the things that are heavy on your heart.
It doesn't have to be the gym. Find some people who play ultimate in the park, or basketball, or volleyball, or soccer, or whatever you like. That way, you're not just getting exercise, you're also with some people. Having someone else read what you're trying to do and passing to you at just the right spot is sweet in a way that just lifting weights or running on a treadmill will never be.
I think you might find this a good read on the subject of exercise. Just tweeted today by PG: http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/04/how-neuroscientists-exp...
Not if you stay at the same job, but the days of working at one place for years and years being the norm are over.
Stop worrying about an 'interesting tech stack'. Most development work in the world is decidedly unsexy. Watch the job market carefully over the next couple weeks and pick the most promising looking jobs (no more than say 5-10), research the companies and apply. Accept the best offer.
What you will find is that there's a lot about professional development that you need to learn yet. In time you will see your salary go up. Unless you live in one of the high cost, high salary areas like NYC, San Francisco or Seattle, you're not likely to see the crazy salaries you read about online.
What you will find is that there's a lot about professional development that you need to learn yet. In time you will see your salary go up. Unless you live in one of the high cost, high salary areas like NYC, San Francisco or Seattle, you're not likely to see the crazy salaries you read about online.
I always thought I would be working on crypto or IoT or interesting products that would add something new to the world.
I guess it just was a shock to wake up to world of contractors maintaining legacy applications in JavaEE or PHP.
I guess it just was a shock to wake up to world of contractors maintaining legacy applications in JavaEE or PHP.
>i got laughed at and was asked to find a job and stop being spoiled and lazy.
And they're right. According to the comments you're living in France. You got offers around 30k. I started at 18k. Such is life-- your first couple of jobs will probably be shitty. That's how it is. And it's good because you'll realize that you're not as good as you think and that there is many flavors of everything out there.
You'll adapt, learn, grow, and your salary will follow, as your experience.
And they're right. According to the comments you're living in France. You got offers around 30k. I started at 18k. Such is life-- your first couple of jobs will probably be shitty. That's how it is. And it's good because you'll realize that you're not as good as you think and that there is many flavors of everything out there.
You'll adapt, learn, grow, and your salary will follow, as your experience.
See a doctor. It's an illness like any other, and drugs will help treat it. If the first med you try doesn't work, try another. Different things work for different people.
Some people close to you won't understand at first. That's ok. Their only people, and it's hard for them to have sympathy for an illness they cant physically see.
Do at least 1 productive thing everyday. Congratulate yourself for it.
Some people close to you won't understand at first. That's ok. Their only people, and it's hard for them to have sympathy for an illness they cant physically see.
Do at least 1 productive thing everyday. Congratulate yourself for it.
> all of the offer were with not-that-interesting tech stacks and really bad compensations.
I hate to say it, but beggars can't be choosers. You're fresh out of school with only an internship on your resume. Get some experience. If the company sucks, help make them better. If the pay sucks, it's better than no pay. Just keep looking for better options.
I hate to say it, but beggars can't be choosers. You're fresh out of school with only an internship on your resume. Get some experience. If the company sucks, help make them better. If the pay sucks, it's better than no pay. Just keep looking for better options.
[deleted]
I would take a job that offers enough compensation for you to live on your own. In my opinion, real world experience trumps a lot of what you learn during school. School is a foundation to be built upon, not the end of the road. Start earning that experience and more doors will open to you. You never know, while the tech stack might not be interesting the job could be. Tech stacks can change, try and find a product you engage with, something with more value than just a number in a column.
You may regret many decisions you make in life, the important thing is that you learn from them so they are not made twice. It may sound like a platitude, but it is something I have found to be incredibly useful.
You may regret many decisions you make in life, the important thing is that you learn from them so they are not made twice. It may sound like a platitude, but it is something I have found to be incredibly useful.
The bubble that you surround yourself with school and such kind of distorts how the real world is. You may be really great at what you do, but no one knows you. Without a direct reference it can be hard to get in some place.
I would lean toward what your family is saying, just get a job. Even if you feel that job is underpaying you and not doing something "exciting". Through this process you should learn about "selling yourself" and what employers want to have in an employee. Talent is important, but talent without being able to properly market yourself won't get you where you want to be.
I would lean toward what your family is saying, just get a job. Even if you feel that job is underpaying you and not doing something "exciting". Through this process you should learn about "selling yourself" and what employers want to have in an employee. Talent is important, but talent without being able to properly market yourself won't get you where you want to be.
There are certainly things you can do right away to get things right on track. What is your workout schedule like? Are you lifting weights? Check out 5x5 or Stronglifts.
I think that you should not necessarily take the next offer that comes your way, but you should change your criteria for accepting an offer. You've got to start somewhere, and it's ok for your first job to be relatively "uninteresting". You may find that you learn a lot. At the very least, you'll be getting important experience to add to your resume so that you can get closer to the job you want in the future.
[deleted]
>Pick the next offer I get because there may not be another?
Pick the next offer you get and start living your own life.
Pick the next offer you get and start living your own life.
It's not personal, just business. You need money to move out and hygiene to have lovers
This is a good opportunity for learning. Your perception of the world apparently did not match up with how the world actually is. We've all been there. Get back up, readjust your perspective, and accept the next offer.
stop reading hacker news
1. Take a shower, brush your teeth, make your bed, and get dressed for work every weekday. Including shoes.
2. Spend the first 4 hours of every workday doing your best to get a job.
3. Profit.
You're in no position to be picky right now. Get a job and get the hell out of your parents' house.
Do not chase teh shiny. There is no such thing as a "not-that-interesting tech stack" -- some of the best gigs are writing boring code on boring tech stacks. Might not be sexy but there's satisfaction in producing rock-solid, boring code.
Reliability is interesting.
So is a paycheck.
Suck it up, buttercup. Get a job asap and after a couple years, look for a better one while you're already employed.
It's far easier to get a job when you already have one.
2. Spend the first 4 hours of every workday doing your best to get a job.
3. Profit.
You're in no position to be picky right now. Get a job and get the hell out of your parents' house.
Do not chase teh shiny. There is no such thing as a "not-that-interesting tech stack" -- some of the best gigs are writing boring code on boring tech stacks. Might not be sexy but there's satisfaction in producing rock-solid, boring code.
Reliability is interesting.
So is a paycheck.
Suck it up, buttercup. Get a job asap and after a couple years, look for a better one while you're already employed.
It's far easier to get a job when you already have one.
I agree with the spirit of your post and I think it's good advice for someone within the range of 'normal' mental health.
However I think telling someone who is depressed to 'suck it up, buttercup' is unhelpful and potentially dangerous.
I was never properly diagnosed, but I have suffered with what I now think is depression for long periods of my life. Believe me, I told myself to 'suck it up' every single day. And my continued failure to 'suck it up' became another stick to beat myself with, and (in the warped mindset of the depressive) more evidence that I was completely, totally worthless.
Please don't ever tell a depressed person to 'just be happy' or 'suck it up' or 'snap out of it'. It doesn't work like that.
That's not to say the OP should abdicate all responsibility for his future. He should still do the other things you mention. But he should be kind to himself along the way.
One caveat: what's with the weird stigma (most prevalent, it seems, in English-speaking countries) about living with your parents? If you get along with your parents and they live in an area where there are jobs, what's wrong with staying a supportive environment and saving money for a while?
However I think telling someone who is depressed to 'suck it up, buttercup' is unhelpful and potentially dangerous.
I was never properly diagnosed, but I have suffered with what I now think is depression for long periods of my life. Believe me, I told myself to 'suck it up' every single day. And my continued failure to 'suck it up' became another stick to beat myself with, and (in the warped mindset of the depressive) more evidence that I was completely, totally worthless.
Please don't ever tell a depressed person to 'just be happy' or 'suck it up' or 'snap out of it'. It doesn't work like that.
That's not to say the OP should abdicate all responsibility for his future. He should still do the other things you mention. But he should be kind to himself along the way.
One caveat: what's with the weird stigma (most prevalent, it seems, in English-speaking countries) about living with your parents? If you get along with your parents and they live in an area where there are jobs, what's wrong with staying a supportive environment and saving money for a while?
>However I think telling someone who is depressed to 'suck it up, buttercup' is unhelpful and potentially dangerous.
I didn't take it that stray was saying to suck it up and be happy or get out of the depression but suck it up and take a job that may not be the ideal job for the OP currently. There are a lot of shitty jobs out there and as a junior you are more likely to be stuck with one of those than people with experience. Take a shitty job learn what you can and then move to a better job.
I didn't take it that stray was saying to suck it up and be happy or get out of the depression but suck it up and take a job that may not be the ideal job for the OP currently. There are a lot of shitty jobs out there and as a junior you are more likely to be stuck with one of those than people with experience. Take a shitty job learn what you can and then move to a better job.
Correct.
Best advice in the thread. Take it, OP.
Pick one of those jobs, perhaps one close to where you live, and crush it.
Use the role to learn and the extra time from being on top of your game in work (and close to home) to scope out a better job.
Discipline is a like a muscle. With so much potential ahead of you, do not let it atrophy.
Pick one of those jobs, perhaps one close to where you live, and crush it.
Use the role to learn and the extra time from being on top of your game in work (and close to home) to scope out a better job.
Discipline is a like a muscle. With so much potential ahead of you, do not let it atrophy.
Plus, the first is the hardest. The magic word isn't "degree"; it's "experience".
Talk to a licensed mental health professional. It's no different than going to a doctor with a sprained knee.
Cold showers are good if you can't sleep.
Maybe get checked for low testosterone if you are having symptoms.
Get a job at a not-that-interesting work place and let it improve while you're there. ;)
Look for a new job a year in.
Look for a new job a year in.
First
Don't give up the job hunt Unemployment is devastating You are not alone
Maybe there are other things in your life outside your CV and job situation you should address.
Definitely shower daily and lift heavy weights often.
I would recommend posting to /r/getmotivated and /r/therepill for further advice
Don't give up the job hunt Unemployment is devastating You are not alone
Maybe there are other things in your life outside your CV and job situation you should address.
Definitely shower daily and lift heavy weights often.
I would recommend posting to /r/getmotivated and /r/therepill for further advice
Volunteer and help someone else in need.
As a guy who has also fallen from grace, several times, with heavy reality checks i would say that this is a normal reaction of coping in front of what is your first big reality check:
- The end of school for a guy who was "one of the best" and with it: the loss of an academic status (grades) that has little to no impact on the real world ("genius" excepted), the loss of a clear path to success (study hard and it is going to be fine), a set of guidelines (everybody is equal and graded on their knowledge).
- The first time somebody told you that not everyone will want to work with you. And with it the realisation that not everything works as you were led to believe, you are good at what you do, why would they let you go? If you were really that good why wouldn't they keep you and do everything they could to keep you?
- Go back to father and mother, bearing this first failure, and feeling they do not completely understand.
Of course you might not think of it in those terms, but it is the reality most people, even very bright people, face after college. And in my opinion there is a great lot to be grieving about. Those are just the first realisations that will come to pass in your life about how the world is brutal and do not follow any rules you think it should follow.
You also are at a disadvantage, because you did good in school, you never had to defend yourself despite your own self-image, to fend for yourself and see the good in yourself despite the flaws. Less successful students will have learn this by now, and they are prepared to fight for their share, to promote their knowledge, to put forth their projects with affected self-confidence. That is a skillset you need to learn right now. In my opinion there is a positive way of learning it, and a very bad way of learning it. And it all comes down to how you will frame this reality, the negative way will frame this need to fight and sell yourself as a cheat, a crack in the logic, something that would make sense only for less gifted people. This model, in my opinion, couldn't be farther from the truth, it is the way of the academic and technocratic ego, that would only work for you if you were truly narcissistic. You need to let go of what was given to you in terms of status and make it your duty to build it for yourself. You should be the one creating your own status, not others.
As a Psychiatrist I would say: Since depression should occur without clear external factor, this is not a major depressive disorder, nor a minor episode, in my opinion it is a form a grief, a syndrome now called bereavement.
Of course you will see grief generally associated to the death of someone, but rarely in modern psychiatry will you see it come up when it is something inside you that died. You will see that kind of concepts, such as narcissistic collapse, in psychoanalysis, psychodynamics or other more holistic psychopathological framework. But maybe HN is not the place to go on about those.
When I am reading you, and I am not the only one to notice here in the comments, I can see a certain dynamism hidden below the apparent depression, you seek and imagine a future. A positive future in accord to your previous expectations. This is largely in favor of grief. Indeed, the main difference between grief and major depressive disorder is this fluidity, this motion of affects and thoughts that are able to go beyond the current state into a more positive future. You are also actively trying to find solutions for yourself, trying to find limits to your symptoms, they are submerging you, you can think about them, and think about yourself relatively clearly, that is another strong cue that you will get over this, and end up stronger than you were before.
The 5 stages of grief are something we use in practice but it rarely has this exact form of denial, anger, bargain, depression, acceptance. Usually you go through fast cycles of anger, despair, fatigue, hope, discouragement. Mostly discouragement and fatigue.
My advice will echo other people's comments, you should set up a healthy daily routine, which seems fairly simple but always holds in itself the secret to a fast recovery. Set even the smallest of positive healthy goal. That simple act is in itself the fastest path to resilience by changing how you frame your relationship with your mental state.
- Most important is sleep. Do sleep at regular hours, before midnight, without your computer in bed, wake up early after your natural number of hours of sleep. If you think you need more than 8 hours, try sleeping at 11pm with blinds slightly open to let the morning light wake you before your alarm.
- Do sports, even if only a little yogi sun salute or couple pushups in the morning (cardio would be best but hard especially in the winter !)
- Schedule todos and positive habits: download an app like Habitica or something, and plan your days.
- If you are not doing anything of your days, either start a side project, enroll in a class, or do something creative like cooking for example, or music.
- Read 15 pages per day minimum of non tech-related book, maybe philosophy, or a author you like.
- And set a mental date as to when you will stop looking and accept one of the offer. Settling for an offer that you are not 100% sure about, do not settle for one that would make your daily life a nightmare, like going someplace you know nobody and/or commute 2hours a days. Find someplace life is easy, so you can enjoy your daily life.
- Do see your friends, be honest with them, don't hide, have a drink, play some videogames, catch a movie.
- Take a real good care of your environment, make it something sweet, kind, light, fun. Cherish friends, and family when they are a positive force in your life, do not linger to long otherwise. A positive environment, is 90% of the work for a happy life.
On a more general note, there is usually no cure to mental illness, but the realisation that there is no cure except your own will to understand yourself, cope and do the best with what you have. Then the disease usually slowly disappears, controlled out of sight. I do not mean it in a bad way, taking back the reign of your own sanity is the real cure, this realisation do not come easy, nor is it possible for every type of illness, or every environment. This is my opinion, from having worked in the field for some years now, having also my own issues and close friends suffering from all kind of mental problems.
That's it for my two cents !
I might be mistaken but I honestly believe you'll be fine, and do not think you will drag this all your life. This will make you stronger, without any doubt in my mind.
- The end of school for a guy who was "one of the best" and with it: the loss of an academic status (grades) that has little to no impact on the real world ("genius" excepted), the loss of a clear path to success (study hard and it is going to be fine), a set of guidelines (everybody is equal and graded on their knowledge).
- The first time somebody told you that not everyone will want to work with you. And with it the realisation that not everything works as you were led to believe, you are good at what you do, why would they let you go? If you were really that good why wouldn't they keep you and do everything they could to keep you?
- Go back to father and mother, bearing this first failure, and feeling they do not completely understand.
Of course you might not think of it in those terms, but it is the reality most people, even very bright people, face after college. And in my opinion there is a great lot to be grieving about. Those are just the first realisations that will come to pass in your life about how the world is brutal and do not follow any rules you think it should follow.
You also are at a disadvantage, because you did good in school, you never had to defend yourself despite your own self-image, to fend for yourself and see the good in yourself despite the flaws. Less successful students will have learn this by now, and they are prepared to fight for their share, to promote their knowledge, to put forth their projects with affected self-confidence. That is a skillset you need to learn right now. In my opinion there is a positive way of learning it, and a very bad way of learning it. And it all comes down to how you will frame this reality, the negative way will frame this need to fight and sell yourself as a cheat, a crack in the logic, something that would make sense only for less gifted people. This model, in my opinion, couldn't be farther from the truth, it is the way of the academic and technocratic ego, that would only work for you if you were truly narcissistic. You need to let go of what was given to you in terms of status and make it your duty to build it for yourself. You should be the one creating your own status, not others.
As a Psychiatrist I would say: Since depression should occur without clear external factor, this is not a major depressive disorder, nor a minor episode, in my opinion it is a form a grief, a syndrome now called bereavement.
Of course you will see grief generally associated to the death of someone, but rarely in modern psychiatry will you see it come up when it is something inside you that died. You will see that kind of concepts, such as narcissistic collapse, in psychoanalysis, psychodynamics or other more holistic psychopathological framework. But maybe HN is not the place to go on about those.
When I am reading you, and I am not the only one to notice here in the comments, I can see a certain dynamism hidden below the apparent depression, you seek and imagine a future. A positive future in accord to your previous expectations. This is largely in favor of grief. Indeed, the main difference between grief and major depressive disorder is this fluidity, this motion of affects and thoughts that are able to go beyond the current state into a more positive future. You are also actively trying to find solutions for yourself, trying to find limits to your symptoms, they are submerging you, you can think about them, and think about yourself relatively clearly, that is another strong cue that you will get over this, and end up stronger than you were before.
The 5 stages of grief are something we use in practice but it rarely has this exact form of denial, anger, bargain, depression, acceptance. Usually you go through fast cycles of anger, despair, fatigue, hope, discouragement. Mostly discouragement and fatigue.
My advice will echo other people's comments, you should set up a healthy daily routine, which seems fairly simple but always holds in itself the secret to a fast recovery. Set even the smallest of positive healthy goal. That simple act is in itself the fastest path to resilience by changing how you frame your relationship with your mental state.
- Most important is sleep. Do sleep at regular hours, before midnight, without your computer in bed, wake up early after your natural number of hours of sleep. If you think you need more than 8 hours, try sleeping at 11pm with blinds slightly open to let the morning light wake you before your alarm.
- Do sports, even if only a little yogi sun salute or couple pushups in the morning (cardio would be best but hard especially in the winter !)
- Schedule todos and positive habits: download an app like Habitica or something, and plan your days.
- If you are not doing anything of your days, either start a side project, enroll in a class, or do something creative like cooking for example, or music.
- Read 15 pages per day minimum of non tech-related book, maybe philosophy, or a author you like.
- And set a mental date as to when you will stop looking and accept one of the offer. Settling for an offer that you are not 100% sure about, do not settle for one that would make your daily life a nightmare, like going someplace you know nobody and/or commute 2hours a days. Find someplace life is easy, so you can enjoy your daily life.
- Do see your friends, be honest with them, don't hide, have a drink, play some videogames, catch a movie.
- Take a real good care of your environment, make it something sweet, kind, light, fun. Cherish friends, and family when they are a positive force in your life, do not linger to long otherwise. A positive environment, is 90% of the work for a happy life.
On a more general note, there is usually no cure to mental illness, but the realisation that there is no cure except your own will to understand yourself, cope and do the best with what you have. Then the disease usually slowly disappears, controlled out of sight. I do not mean it in a bad way, taking back the reign of your own sanity is the real cure, this realisation do not come easy, nor is it possible for every type of illness, or every environment. This is my opinion, from having worked in the field for some years now, having also my own issues and close friends suffering from all kind of mental problems.
That's it for my two cents !
I might be mistaken but I honestly believe you'll be fine, and do not think you will drag this all your life. This will make you stronger, without any doubt in my mind.
Lived out of my car for a while when I was your age. Wished I was in your position. At least you have free health care...
weego(1)
You sound like you are being spoiled and lazy. You want your first job to be something where you are highly praised and valued every day, you only have to work on the things you want to with the people you want to work with?
You are young so you are still learning and thats ok. Try to grow up a little and realize that life is uncomfortable sometimes. That's ok. What's not ok is shutting down and giving up.
You are young so you are still learning and thats ok. Try to grow up a little and realize that life is uncomfortable sometimes. That's ok. What's not ok is shutting down and giving up.
tl;dr: I graduated Software engineering 3 months ago and I'm currently without a job and back to live with my parents.
During school I was always told that I was "brilliant and one of the best". I tried not to show it with any attitude, but after a lot of people repeating over a period of many years, I think it entered the back of my mind but still with impostor syndrome.
On my final year I interned at a very prestigious company (not big 4, but still a huge one) with a great salary and an important project. Everything seemed to go the way everybody predicted and expected of me.
At the end of my internship, my manger lets me know that I will not be hired because the company is not hieing junior engineers at this time, but he would gladly recommend me to anyone.
I sent my resume to more than a 100 companies and I got a decent number of responses, interviews and even offers. However, all of the offer were with not-that-interesting tech stacks and really bad compensations.
For me it was not about the money, but a show of how much a company appreciate me and how they think of me.
I refused all the contracts so far, and the responses are fewer everyday. I'm eve, starting to regret not accepting a couple of them, after all this is maybe what i'm really worth and I was in a bubble all that time.
A few weeks ago I realized that I was gaining weight, and that I'm no longer interested in social interactions or my hygiene.
I told my family that, i got laughed at and was asked to find a job and stop being spoiled and lazy.
I don't know what to do.
Pick the next offer I get because there may not be another? See a professional about my current mental health?
I realize that this is more an anonymous rant than an Ask HN but I have no one else to ask