Ask HN: What Linux Desktop Environment do you use on tablets?
56 comments
I really can't stand any of the DE's. I have a perfectly customized set up for Awesome WM. It's very low resources, so works equally well on my high spec'd Thinkpad, as well as on a 10 year old netbook. I'm considering getting one of these for learning on the go: https://liliputing.com/2020/07/linux-on-the-onegx1-mini-lapt.... I'll definitely install awesome and leave gnome as a fallback.
GNOME3 really needs a better OSK. It should be possible to replicate the featureset of The Hacker Keyboard (for AOSP, available in F-Droid), which does include a full PC keyboard layout with a choice of reduced subsets.
I also use GNOME on Wayland, but the GNOME Phone Shell/phosh might be of interest to you:
https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Phosh
It's basically GNOME but optimized for things like OSKs etc.
https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Phosh
It's basically GNOME but optimized for things like OSKs etc.
Yeah, Phosh is probably one of the better options right now, especially for smaller tablets. It's still very much focused on phone-sized displays though.
There's some concept art[0] for a tablet/laptop mode for Phosh with tiling window management, but so far it's just a concept. (It's one that I'm a huge fan of though and that I hope will happen; I'd absolutely use it with a docked Librem 5.)
[0] https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2020/04/gnome-mobile-convergence...
There's some concept art[0] for a tablet/laptop mode for Phosh with tiling window management, but so far it's just a concept. (It's one that I'm a huge fan of though and that I hope will happen; I'd absolutely use it with a docked Librem 5.)
[0] https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2020/04/gnome-mobile-convergence...
Not just concept art: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNls0t4Go68
That video shows Phosh on a larger display, which is fine, but it's still just the phone UI blown up onto a larger display with floating windows. I've used it, it's okay, but in its current form it's not something I'd want to use long-term on a laptop or tablet.
The UI shown in that concept art is still just a concept. The notification center and calendar that slide in from the sides, the combined tray/clock/launcher bar at the bottom, the touch-friendly tiling - none of that exists yet.
The UI shown in that concept art is still just a concept. The notification center and calendar that slide in from the sides, the combined tray/clock/launcher bar at the bottom, the touch-friendly tiling - none of that exists yet.
Most of my tablets run Android and seem locked down and unable to run some alternative Linux desktop environment. These are mostly slower arm based machines that I think would be difficult to load a clean Linux onto them. I'd love to be wrong because the versions of Android are becoming quite slow on these devices.
I did pick up an inexpensive Intel bay trail tablet a couple years back that I now run Void Linux on. I don't run any desktop environment on it. I don't even have Xorg (or Wayland) installed! I mostly use it as an always on "server" and ssh into it daily. The only problem is that it seems like it's not possible to turn the backlight off so eventually that will burn out I guess (I think lifetime is 100 000 hours). I did manage to set the brightness to 0 but for some reason the backlight will not turn off.
I did pick up an inexpensive Intel bay trail tablet a couple years back that I now run Void Linux on. I don't run any desktop environment on it. I don't even have Xorg (or Wayland) installed! I mostly use it as an always on "server" and ssh into it daily. The only problem is that it seems like it's not possible to turn the backlight off so eventually that will burn out I guess (I think lifetime is 100 000 hours). I did manage to set the brightness to 0 but for some reason the backlight will not turn off.
PostmarketOS supports a lot of older tablets and can give them new life.
I know most Linux die-hards probably think it's sacrilege but the best Linux experience on a tablet is ChromeOS.
You can enable Linux apps in settings, and it gives you a Debian terminal. If you install apps there (ex: GIMP or VS Code) app icons show up in the ChromeOS launcher, and it uses Wayland forwarding to integrate their windows into the ChromeOS Window manager so they feel native.
And as far as tablet interface goes, the UI is a bit less polished than Android but similar and (IMO) very competent. Way better than Gnome and friends. Oh, and you can install any Android app you want!
I use my Lenovo Duet a ton now. Only thing holding back this particular device is ARM compat with some dev tools.
You can enable Linux apps in settings, and it gives you a Debian terminal. If you install apps there (ex: GIMP or VS Code) app icons show up in the ChromeOS launcher, and it uses Wayland forwarding to integrate their windows into the ChromeOS Window manager so they feel native.
And as far as tablet interface goes, the UI is a bit less polished than Android but similar and (IMO) very competent. Way better than Gnome and friends. Oh, and you can install any Android app you want!
I use my Lenovo Duet a ton now. Only thing holding back this particular device is ARM compat with some dev tools.
You mean ChromiumOS? Last time I tried, the driver support on hardware not officially recognized was horrible.
No, I meant ChromeOS.
There's no official, user-friendly way to install ChromiumOS yourself. A company called Neverware provides ISOs for x86 PC's but like you say the drivers are spotty and these releases lag behind ChromeOS. I'm not even sure what tablet devices are out there that you'd _want_ to install ChromiumOS on yourself? Maybe a Surface? These don't even have mainline Linux support (https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface exists though).
ChromeOS on a device like the Duet is a nice experience however, and still let's you get a Debian shell like I described.
There's no official, user-friendly way to install ChromiumOS yourself. A company called Neverware provides ISOs for x86 PC's but like you say the drivers are spotty and these releases lag behind ChromeOS. I'm not even sure what tablet devices are out there that you'd _want_ to install ChromiumOS on yourself? Maybe a Surface? These don't even have mainline Linux support (https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface exists though).
ChromeOS on a device like the Duet is a nice experience however, and still let's you get a Debian shell like I described.
I see. Would you recommend it? I dislike Google, but I'm eager to play with it a little if you say it's a nice experience.
It was ages ago, but I did see that you could install just the ChromeOS shell as a session for other distros. If its still possible, it could be an option for people not wanting full fat Google OS
Which tablet are you using?
I used a customised MATE on a Raspberry Pi with touch screen. It wasn't an amazing experience, but the on-screen keyboard was reasonable. I don't know what OSK Gnome uses - it could just be a version of the same thing - but the one in Ubuntu MATE for the Pi was OnBoard.
I'm using Zorin (Gnome 3) and the touchscreen support it has is just great.
Android, actually.
It provides all the apps I need on the go, including a desktop like environment when I plug my bluetooth keyboard and mouse into it, including some programming.
I have given up trying to fit GNU/Linux into places where it doesn't come pre-installed out of the box, also it advances the technology stack further of the C and C++ desktops that GNU/Linux is stuck with.
Ironically it is the closest we have to Inferno/Limbo ideas.
It provides all the apps I need on the go, including a desktop like environment when I plug my bluetooth keyboard and mouse into it, including some programming.
I have given up trying to fit GNU/Linux into places where it doesn't come pre-installed out of the box, also it advances the technology stack further of the C and C++ desktops that GNU/Linux is stuck with.
Ironically it is the closest we have to Inferno/Limbo ideas.
Android isn't a Linux desktop environment. I'd barely even call it Linux. It uses its own drawing layer that's not X or Wayland, a mounting system that makes no sense and changes with every release, is filled with tons of proprietary stuff ... I mean, it's the Linux kernel and pretty much nothing else.
This is why the GNU/Linux vs Linux distinction is useful.
A question unrelated to the post ..
Why would you say that the mounting system doesn't make sense in Android? Not rebuking what you said, just want to understand.
I detailed one issue I ran into here on this post:
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/124575/mount-an-...
Looks like some comments were added three years later. The entire mounting system between the Linux command-line/system interface and the Android UI is terrible disconnected and the way to trigger events in one changes in every single release. Having just a knowledge of Linux is not going to help you debug problems with Android.
Android also does a lot of crazy/non-standard SELinux isolation stuff. I do a longer/more complete rant on Android from a few years back here:
https://battlepenguin.com/tech/android-fragmentation/
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/124575/mount-an-...
Looks like some comments were added three years later. The entire mounting system between the Linux command-line/system interface and the Android UI is terrible disconnected and the way to trigger events in one changes in every single release. Having just a knowledge of Linux is not going to help you debug problems with Android.
Android also does a lot of crazy/non-standard SELinux isolation stuff. I do a longer/more complete rant on Android from a few years back here:
https://battlepenguin.com/tech/android-fragmentation/
Linux is a kernel, I explicitly wrote GNU/Linux, and if it makes sense to you or not, it doesn't matter.
The reality is that Android/Linux has a windowing system, supports external monitors, keyboards and mice.
The reality is that Android/Linux has a windowing system, supports external monitors, keyboards and mice.
I briefly tried Ubuntu on a notebook computer. Very briefly. Touch screen performance and battery performance were both poor, which would have been show stoppers for a tablet.
I don't know what layer of a Linux system is responsible for making the touch screen or battery work better, but I suspect it's not the fault of any specific distro.
I don't know what layer of a Linux system is responsible for making the touch screen or battery work better, but I suspect it's not the fault of any specific distro.
I use a Lenovo X1 Yoga 2-in-1 for my daily and tried Ubuntu, Manjaro and PopOS. All of them sadly completely paled in comparison to Windows for out of the box tablet experience. Weird sizing issues, high battery usage, no face recognition login (extremely useful in tablet mode) I’m back to using WSL2.
* I've found scaling in Wayland based environments to be unbelievably good and sharp, but I'm also not using very user-friendly tablet-friendly desktop environments.
* High battery usage comes as a shock to me. I get better life on Linux, by far. Are you aware of the powertop tools & the tuning it can do? tlp? These tweaks buy me less than 20% more life, but that might change. Newer kernel versions are much better, and they also have far more aggressive defaults. If you were running an 18.04 Ubuntu that 4.15 kernel is not doing you any favors.
* No face recognition login is not something I'm interested in. It is nice to get back in the game fast, but worrying about 5s to throw in a password, to me, is small fries. And I don't really like or trust these systems in the first place.
But in general, what is notable about your post to me is that it's a weird laundry list of concerns that doesn't talk to the overarching experience. I've had detachable 2-in-1 computers for near to a decade, before that a Fujitsu P-series touchscreen+pen, all running Linux, but so far I've only ever used any of them in a more conventional computing mode. I have yet to break out Gnome or other mainstream multi-paradigm computing environments, but I am so interested to know, what is the workflow like, how would I use these things in tablet mode? As it is, if I want something portable, I reach for my Android phone. I'd like, some day to change that. These specific concerns you've listed seem low on my priority list, far below knowing & thinking about the overall general experience.
* High battery usage comes as a shock to me. I get better life on Linux, by far. Are you aware of the powertop tools & the tuning it can do? tlp? These tweaks buy me less than 20% more life, but that might change. Newer kernel versions are much better, and they also have far more aggressive defaults. If you were running an 18.04 Ubuntu that 4.15 kernel is not doing you any favors.
* No face recognition login is not something I'm interested in. It is nice to get back in the game fast, but worrying about 5s to throw in a password, to me, is small fries. And I don't really like or trust these systems in the first place.
But in general, what is notable about your post to me is that it's a weird laundry list of concerns that doesn't talk to the overarching experience. I've had detachable 2-in-1 computers for near to a decade, before that a Fujitsu P-series touchscreen+pen, all running Linux, but so far I've only ever used any of them in a more conventional computing mode. I have yet to break out Gnome or other mainstream multi-paradigm computing environments, but I am so interested to know, what is the workflow like, how would I use these things in tablet mode? As it is, if I want something portable, I reach for my Android phone. I'd like, some day to change that. These specific concerns you've listed seem low on my priority list, far below knowing & thinking about the overall general experience.
I'm using Gnome 3, on Manjaro, with the surface-linux kernel. It's fine for touch use, but writing is a poor experience compared to Windows with OneNote. Sluggish response, glitchy, limited feature set etc.
Not exactly "tablet" its a hybrid, but on my Yoga 11e the only one that works like a champ is Solus, alas some features like "tent" eg screen auto-rotate are not working automatically.
Has anyone tried running a full distro in chroot on a Galaxy tab s7 (e.g. with Andronix or similar)? Love the device but I need Chrome's dev tools so Android won't cut it.
I did all the time in the Android 2.x era. But it still works well, with the big caveat that there has always been hassle to use a Xserver on android. As far as I know there's no wayland app. Also there is lacking progress on integration. The chroot'ed distro generally doesn't integrate with android interfaces, and it's hard to do yourself if you're not rooted. Termux is a pretty nice implementation, with special integration.
Awesome! I've seen videos of people running Android Studio on a recent Samsung model and I was impressed by the fact you can now build Android apps on Android. As far as I know there is currently no way of building iOS apps on an iOS/iPadOS device.
Why not Android? It's Linux, and it has tons of Google-researched optimizations that you're unlikely to get from Linux distros (at least the same level of polish).
Opensuse with kde had worked ok for me on an old surface pro.
Strangely it has an on-screen keyboard to login, but not once you login. It's pretty easy to add one.
Strangely it has an on-screen keyboard to login, but not once you login. It's pretty easy to add one.
I used to run Gallium on my touchscreen chromebook. Really enjoyed that combo until the chromebook died.
Phosh?
Same question but for general Linux distros.
Not sure I'm willing to try Ubuntu for the 8th time. I use Linux server all the time, but I don't want to mess with configurations and installing a bunch of unique software to get netflix to work. More bloatwear the better. (I half joke)
Not sure I'm willing to try Ubuntu for the 8th time. I use Linux server all the time, but I don't want to mess with configurations and installing a bunch of unique software to get netflix to work. More bloatwear the better. (I half joke)
I've used Slackware, Void Linux, Debian, Arch. Slackware and Void Linux I found really nice technically. However, I'm currently using latest Ubuntu simply because of the popularity, which translates to large ecosystem and minimum setup required for basic things.
I'm not a fan of how Ubuntu does things, but I'm at a point in my life where I want something that's fire-and-forget. Certainly wasn't the case before, might not be the case in the future. You'll be making some kind of compromises when choosing your computing environment. Be upfront with what you can compromise and what you can't and choosing will be easier.
I'm not a fan of how Ubuntu does things, but I'm at a point in my life where I want something that's fire-and-forget. Certainly wasn't the case before, might not be the case in the future. You'll be making some kind of compromises when choosing your computing environment. Be upfront with what you can compromise and what you can't and choosing will be easier.
I've done a similar (very interesting techically) trip through various distros.
Instead of Ubuntu, I settled for Fedora.
It provides newer packages than Ubuntu but also "just works" (at least for me).
The disadvantage would be the far lower popularity compared to Ubuntu.
I find that Linux devotees often leave out the compromises they've made in their computing choices. Thank you for stating yours, it helps contextualize the reasons for choosing Ubuntu!
Slackware was my very first Linux (Slackware 3.6). Back then I built a Linux From Scratch (2001/2002) and used it for two semesters and it really helped me fully understand a lot about Linux.
Today I use Gentoo on my main box, Alpine on my file server (I wrote this on using Alpine with full disk encryption: https://battlepenguin.com/tech/alpine-linux-with-full-disk-e...), Void on my router and Dedicated server.
My favorite current distros are currently Void, Gentoo and Alpine.
Today I use Gentoo on my main box, Alpine on my file server (I wrote this on using Alpine with full disk encryption: https://battlepenguin.com/tech/alpine-linux-with-full-disk-e...), Void on my router and Dedicated server.
My favorite current distros are currently Void, Gentoo and Alpine.
Cinnamon on Linux Mint or Manjaro are very 'batteries included' setups. Ditto Kubuntu (KDE) and Pop!_OS (Gnome).
Even Ubuntu is pretty good these days. As of April it also includes Nvidia drivers.
Even Ubuntu is pretty good these days. As of April it also includes Nvidia drivers.
Linux Foundation annual report was apparently produced on a Mac using Adobe Creative Cloud [1].
Linux is essential part of my workflow too, but I completely understand why that poor Linux Foundation person had to use Adobe CC on a Mac.
[1] https://twitter.com/grifferz/status/1334671602156507143
Linux is essential part of my workflow too, but I completely understand why that poor Linux Foundation person had to use Adobe CC on a Mac.
[1] https://twitter.com/grifferz/status/1334671602156507143
In my experience, Cinnamon Mint is the easiest to use with a background in Mac OS Classic or Windows XP through 7.
Netflix works on Firefox out of the box.
Netflix works on Firefox out of the box.
PopOS has a nice default distro that doesn't require a tonne of tweaking.
Install Gentoo...
Here is a list of Popular Distros
https://distrowatch.com/
Here is a list of Popular Distros
https://distrowatch.com/
That's an indicator of popularity among distrowatch.com readers, not at all representative of what Linux users worldwide use.
>That's an indicator of popularity among distrowatch.com readers, not at all representative of what Linux users worldwide use.
So Linux users worldwide don't use any of those Distros like Mint (#3), Ubuntu (#5), etc?
What do they use?
So Linux users worldwide don't use any of those Distros like Mint (#3), Ubuntu (#5), etc?
What do they use?
>popularity
The ranking portion can be misleading.
The ranking portion can be misleading.
Definitely don't recommend owning any tablet.
Please explain why you think that.
Not the OP, but to me a tablet is probably the worst tech purchase I ever made. I have 2 at home (mine and wife's), but we almost never use them.
To me the tablet combines the worst properties from phone and laptop. A smartphone is great because it's always with me no matter where I go. A laptop is ergonomic, powerful and easy to use. The tablet is neither of these things. When I'm at home I always prefer to use the laptop, when I'm out I don't see a reason to lug around another device that's almost the same as a phone, just a bit bigger.
To me the tablet combines the worst properties from phone and laptop. A smartphone is great because it's always with me no matter where I go. A laptop is ergonomic, powerful and easy to use. The tablet is neither of these things. When I'm at home I always prefer to use the laptop, when I'm out I don't see a reason to lug around another device that's almost the same as a phone, just a bit bigger.
As far as I can tell, they're only good for one thing: reading comics, or articles. (although the form factor should be good for books, they generally fail for non-tablet related reasons: most ebooks contain DRM, and so you don't own them. This is less of a problem for articles or comics)
They're bad for everything else:
---
- Typing anything whatsoever
- Clicking links. (my thumb is not large, but is still much bigger than the target text I need to click much of the time)
- Being easy to hold: most of them are very smooth and slick, which means you can't prop them against anything, and have to constantly be holding them. Typing, while holding them is very uncomfortable, and all around worse than typing on a keyboard.
- Having physical buttons.
- Having a good and consistent UI. (I dislike having new gestures to learn and use every few versions)
- Staying upright while you try to watch video
- Not invading your privacy every moment of every day
- Receiving security updates after one year of ownership (or, if you own an Apple device, this can be swapped out for "being inexpensive or open")
- Loading the desktop version of sites
Generally speaking, they're worse at everything compared to a laptop, and are only slightly more portable.
They're bad for everything else:
---
- Typing anything whatsoever
- Clicking links. (my thumb is not large, but is still much bigger than the target text I need to click much of the time)
- Being easy to hold: most of them are very smooth and slick, which means you can't prop them against anything, and have to constantly be holding them. Typing, while holding them is very uncomfortable, and all around worse than typing on a keyboard.
- Having physical buttons.
- Having a good and consistent UI. (I dislike having new gestures to learn and use every few versions)
- Staying upright while you try to watch video
- Not invading your privacy every moment of every day
- Receiving security updates after one year of ownership (or, if you own an Apple device, this can be swapped out for "being inexpensive or open")
- Loading the desktop version of sites
Generally speaking, they're worse at everything compared to a laptop, and are only slightly more portable.
iPads are great. I’m not sure I’d want to install Linux though.
Is there any better alternative Desktop Environment (with Wayland support) primarily for browsing the Internet, reading e-books,... and occasionally typing in terminal?