Show HN: I built an online interactive course that helps you learn Vim faster(vim.so)
vim.so
Show HN: I built an online interactive course that helps you learn Vim faster
https://www.vim.so
283 comments
Before trying these courses , Please try vimtutor that comes bundled with vim . After practicing with vimtutor , you can try these additional courses.
Looks like "vimtutor" is primarily text explaining the hotkeys.
For me, the bottleneck to picking up vim has not been merely knowing the hotkeys, but more internalizing the commands and building muscle memory.
The interactive game format of this website could possibly solve that, so it appeals to me.
For me, the bottleneck to picking up vim has not been merely knowing the hotkeys, but more internalizing the commands and building muscle memory.
The interactive game format of this website could possibly solve that, so it appeals to me.
It says this in the 3rd or 4th paragraph:
> It is important to remember that this tutor is set up to teach by use. That means that you need to execute the commands to learn them properly. If you only read the text, you will forget the commands!
And it's free, not 15 USD or whatever this site is charging.
> It is important to remember that this tutor is set up to teach by use. That means that you need to execute the commands to learn them properly. If you only read the text, you will forget the commands!
And it's free, not 15 USD or whatever this site is charging.
Okay... but the difference between a piece of text just telling me to use the commands so I remember them versus an interactive trainer that provides a structured setting for me to use them is pretty significant, no?
> a structured setting for me to use them
is provided by vimtutor. I wish people would take a couple hundred milliseconds to research things like this before posting about them — most [GNU’s Not] Unix commands take less time to run than a webpage takes to load, and installing their packages takes no more typing than a web search.
is provided by vimtutor. I wish people would take a couple hundred milliseconds to research things like this before posting about them — most [GNU’s Not] Unix commands take less time to run than a webpage takes to load, and installing their packages takes no more typing than a web search.
> I wish people would take a couple hundred milliseconds to research things like this before posting about them
Have tried vimtutor twice. It is seriously confusing if you don't use US keyboard layout and there are probably a couple of other sources of confusion as well.
I did well at school, I do well at work but not so well at vimtutor.
So I think I'm kind of qualified to say that there's room for other resources besides vimtutor.
Also the way you write it is kind of rude.
Have tried vimtutor twice. It is seriously confusing if you don't use US keyboard layout and there are probably a couple of other sources of confusion as well.
I did well at school, I do well at work but not so well at vimtutor.
So I think I'm kind of qualified to say that there's room for other resources besides vimtutor.
Also the way you write it is kind of rude.
I don't see anything on this site saying that it accommodates any non us qwerty keyboard layouts. Does it?
Also vimtutor requires you to actually use the commands on the document. I don't think there is a single key press it doesn't explicitly tell you to press.
Maybe do a quick run through so you can give an example of a place that is confusing?
Also vimtutor requires you to actually use the commands on the document. I don't think there is a single key press it doesn't explicitly tell you to press.
Maybe do a quick run through so you can give an example of a place that is confusing?
In a really minimalist way. I've been in the process of trying to hone my vim skills, and I've been through vimtutor more than once. About the only things I can say for it is that it's free and it works in a text terminal. This online course is promising, and I'm probably going to sign up. It's salient. Salient is good. Salience promotes faster, deeper learning.
vimtutor is interactive. It's a text file that tells you what to do inside itself, so you modify vimtutor directly.. you would've known this if you had spent 10 minutes trying it out.
Back in the day, playing /usr/games/hunt against other people would hone your VI movement keys muscle memory rather quickly.
On the multiuser Unix systems at Purdue, it was typical to have at least half a dozen people on the server, with explosions going off like fireworks. We ran the mod where you could collect 200 ammunition for the nuke, which would destroy a third of the screen.
https://man.openbsd.org/OpenBSD-current/man6/hunt.6
We also had Larry Wall's (yes, that one) video game Warp, which was a lot more action-oriented than the original Star Trek video game. It also used the same hjkl movement keys.
http://ftpmirror.your.org/pub/misc/unixarchive/PDP-11/Trees/...
And of course there was Rogue and Nethack, but those are a lot better remembered these days.
On the multiuser Unix systems at Purdue, it was typical to have at least half a dozen people on the server, with explosions going off like fireworks. We ran the mod where you could collect 200 ammunition for the nuke, which would destroy a third of the screen.
https://man.openbsd.org/OpenBSD-current/man6/hunt.6
We also had Larry Wall's (yes, that one) video game Warp, which was a lot more action-oriented than the original Star Trek video game. It also used the same hjkl movement keys.
http://ftpmirror.your.org/pub/misc/unixarchive/PDP-11/Trees/...
And of course there was Rogue and Nethack, but those are a lot better remembered these days.
vimtutor is designed for you to use it regularly to train muscle memory
For anyone wondering, you use it by executing vimtutor in terminal (not in vim).
Also, you exit by pressing ESC and then typing :q (hit enter)
Also, you exit by pressing ESC and then typing :q (hit enter)
How fitting that the tutorial for vim needs its own pre-tutorial for exiting.
It's also in the tutor, lesson 1.2
But there's actually nothing special about vimtutor here: all it does is write a temporary file and then open it in vim.
But there's actually nothing special about vimtutor here: all it does is write a temporary file and then open it in vim.
Before replying to your post I upvoted, I had to hit a link called [REPLY]
Having seen machines that have hundreds of Vim sessions opened because “system integrators” didn’t know how to exit Vim, it should be the very first thing taught
Luckily vim finally got a bit better with that: on a Ctrl-C newer versions now show instructions for quitting.
I remember my first vi sessions (typically via something like `crontab -e` where it wasn't clear to me it picked my "default" editor ... thus didn't know where to read up on it ...) some long time ago, where i knew `kill` before the right command ...
I remember my first vi sessions (typically via something like `crontab -e` where it wasn't clear to me it picked my "default" editor ... thus didn't know where to read up on it ...) some long time ago, where i knew `kill` before the right command ...
I started with vimtutor, then installed IdeaVim in all my Jetbrains IDEs, it took me about a week to reach the same level of efficiency I had before.
I don't understand how some people can say the learning curve is too steep. Sure it's a bit annoying at first, but it quickly becomes natural, and you don't have to use all features at first. It has allowed me to improve my touch typing a lot. Learning a programming language is a lot more work but hardly anyone ever complain about it.
It's been maybe two months and I wouldn't think of using anything else than vim for serious code editing.
I don't understand how some people can say the learning curve is too steep. Sure it's a bit annoying at first, but it quickly becomes natural, and you don't have to use all features at first. It has allowed me to improve my touch typing a lot. Learning a programming language is a lot more work but hardly anyone ever complain about it.
It's been maybe two months and I wouldn't think of using anything else than vim for serious code editing.
> I don't understand how some people can say the learning curve is too steep
I am doing fine with vim for basic editing tasks and use it a lot (mostly when I'm already in the command line). But there's just only so many shortcuts I'm capable of memorizing. This is not a problem for me exclusive to vim, of course. In IntelliJ I also sometimes find an amazing new function that I then don't keep using since I've already exhausted my limited "inclination" of learning new shortcuts. Also, I don't think my productivity gains at this point are going to come from faster input anyway. Sorry, vim, it's not you, it's me.
I am doing fine with vim for basic editing tasks and use it a lot (mostly when I'm already in the command line). But there's just only so many shortcuts I'm capable of memorizing. This is not a problem for me exclusive to vim, of course. In IntelliJ I also sometimes find an amazing new function that I then don't keep using since I've already exhausted my limited "inclination" of learning new shortcuts. Also, I don't think my productivity gains at this point are going to come from faster input anyway. Sorry, vim, it's not you, it's me.
I’m a full time vim user now, and I would say the ‘productivity’ gains are a bit of a pipe dream. That’s not the reason I would recommend anyone learn vim. The best reason for me is that vim is just fun.
When you finally become competent, it is an absolute joy to work with. It makes me think about editing in a totally different way. However the road to get to that point is not fun.
I started out with basic tasks in the terminal, & vimtutor reps. Then graduated to using a VS code plugin. I would turn it on for 10-15 minutes at a time a few times a day. Usually turning it off once I realize I wasn’t getting anything done :) But solid reps everyday over a few months and I got to where I learned more complex commands/ movements. Eventually I never needed to turn it off!
Then I began the configuration & plugin rabit-hole :)
When you finally become competent, it is an absolute joy to work with. It makes me think about editing in a totally different way. However the road to get to that point is not fun.
I started out with basic tasks in the terminal, & vimtutor reps. Then graduated to using a VS code plugin. I would turn it on for 10-15 minutes at a time a few times a day. Usually turning it off once I realize I wasn’t getting anything done :) But solid reps everyday over a few months and I got to where I learned more complex commands/ movements. Eventually I never needed to turn it off!
Then I began the configuration & plugin rabit-hole :)
How many years have you been using it full-time?
Do you ever miss the global commands not implemented in VS code's plug-in? I still do sometimes, like this: https://youtu.be/46Evprns18M
Do you ever miss the global commands not implemented in VS code's plug-in? I still do sometimes, like this: https://youtu.be/46Evprns18M
Full time a little over a year now I think.
Yeah that's a good point. After a while you do start to realize the limitations of the VS Code plugin. That video is a good example. But once I got to where I could edit at equivalent speed I was used to, I dropped VS Code completely. I looked at the plugin as 'training wheels'.
I'm not as hardcore as some. I still prefer to use GVim/ Macvim. I'm not an 'everything must stay in the terminal' purist. I know some who are, but I still like being able to use the mouse to bail me out sometimes, and always have access to the system clipboard without having to recompile vim :)
I don't go crazy with config & plugins, but I got my setup to where I have all the features I missed from VS Code, and that's enough for me.
There is always more to learn though. I feel like I've been complacent lately, so you have to remind yourself sometimes to make an effort to seek out more advanced techniques.
That video is a great example of some of the incredibly powerful things Vim can do! I'm a big fan of macros for repetitive tasks.
Yeah that's a good point. After a while you do start to realize the limitations of the VS Code plugin. That video is a good example. But once I got to where I could edit at equivalent speed I was used to, I dropped VS Code completely. I looked at the plugin as 'training wheels'.
I'm not as hardcore as some. I still prefer to use GVim/ Macvim. I'm not an 'everything must stay in the terminal' purist. I know some who are, but I still like being able to use the mouse to bail me out sometimes, and always have access to the system clipboard without having to recompile vim :)
I don't go crazy with config & plugins, but I got my setup to where I have all the features I missed from VS Code, and that's enough for me.
There is always more to learn though. I feel like I've been complacent lately, so you have to remind yourself sometimes to make an effort to seek out more advanced techniques.
That video is a great example of some of the incredibly powerful things Vim can do! I'm a big fan of macros for repetitive tasks.
That's one of the strengths of Vim, though. There's a lot of structure to it, so you don't need to learn nearly as many shortcuts as you otherwise would.
first vimtutor and then :help user-manual
Yes! Sadly a lot of people skip over this despite vimtutor pointing to it at the end. Copy/paste below as the text doesn't need paraphrasing, but also because a lot of comments here seem to be advocating vimtutor as something more than the "brief overview" it is.
This concludes the Vim Tutor. It was intended to give a brief overview of
the Vim editor, just enough to allow you to use the editor fairly easily.
It is far from complete as Vim has many many more commands. Read the user
manual next: ":help user-manual".The vim help files are fantastic. Well written, and clearly explain any feature you need to understand better.
Yep I’d definitely recommend the same, vimtutor is great.
vimtutor might be a little too intimidating compared to a vim course in a browser.
I think some (maybe vim experts) jumped a bit too quickly to vimtutor. In some regard, I agree. But I tried the initial exercise on my 8 year old and was impressed, so I purchased to have access to the rest. I'd say I'm a sub-par intermediate vim user - knowing enough to know that I don't know or use the true power of vim day to day, but have memorized a few "tricks" that seem to impress basic vim users. Hoping I can leverage this to break a few bad habits I've gotten into. Nice UI and I think the pricing is fair. Hopefully the content expands, but even if the service isn't around more than a few years I feel like the $15 will have been worth it. Nice work!
Edit: question for Kenneth - do you plan on expanding the content?
Edit: question for Kenneth - do you plan on expanding the content?
There’s been decent demand for some more advanced lessons. I’m considering adding more. Anyone who has bought already would get the additional lessons for free
I have to recommend this too:
https://vim-adventures.com/
I used it to get to grips with vim
https://vim-adventures.com/
I used it to get to grips with vim
I love vim-adventures. It was the only way I was able to stay motivated to learn vim well enough for it to "stick". I just hate that you can only buy 6 month access to it. I'd happily pay 2-3x the price for lifetime access, but the fact that I can only buy 6 more months makes me pretty sure that they won't be getting any more money from me. I think I would still hop on for a few minutes every few months to practice up on some stuff that I forgot.
Have you tried contacting the developer?
I have contacted the developer and offered $10,000 for a perpetual license, but it was not for sale.
/s? If not, I’ll rebuild that and offer you a lifetime license for $9,999 as a hackernews discount ;)
no sarcasm, not currently on offer
Well I think the nice point of doing excercise in a web browser is that you can quickly switch to another tab and search for daring questions such as " by the way why on earth does this monstrosity want me to use hjkl? That don't make any sense!!!!"
https://catonmat.net/why-vim-uses-hjkl-as-arrow-keys
For a mostly data/SQL guy wanting to learn more about coding it still don't make much sense but at least I know why and I can move on. When I was trying vimtutor in a CLI interface I was less curious and more WTF F... this is pure madness kind of mood.
Dunno if I'll subscribe but nice first experience through this demo.
https://catonmat.net/why-vim-uses-hjkl-as-arrow-keys
For a mostly data/SQL guy wanting to learn more about coding it still don't make much sense but at least I know why and I can move on. When I was trying vimtutor in a CLI interface I was less curious and more WTF F... this is pure madness kind of mood.
Dunno if I'll subscribe but nice first experience through this demo.
HJKL also allows you to keep your fingers on the homerow at all times which is really great. I had issues with RSI that when away when I started using Vim properly. Travelling to the arrow keys now feels like a painful task to me! Of course, as a sibling comment mentioned, hjkl is the worst way to move around--"power users" generally only use them to move a char/line or two.
On the other side, it is probably the most unnecessary inflicted pain for beginners. Even after years of using vim on a daily basis, I can't get used to hjkl and still use the arrow keys. I tried a few times with different approaches, but it never lasted more than a few days. So pushing someone new to use hjkl for navigation is so unnecessary and just kills a lot of motivation for very little value.
Starting with deleting, yanking and pasting would be a lot more fun. Even navigation with gg and G plus numbers would be a lot more useful too. Like when you get an error message that is caused by line 42, you know why you want to use vim next time.
Starting with deleting, yanking and pasting would be a lot more fun. Even navigation with gg and G plus numbers would be a lot more useful too. Like when you get an error message that is caused by line 42, you know why you want to use vim next time.
The way I got used to hjkl home row was by completely disabling the arrow keys in my vimrc file (in normal and insert modes). I was struggling before that though.
I don't disagree that it might not be the best thing to introduce to new users right off the bat. It's really nice if you force yourself to get used to it, but it's also cool to never use them. Not using them does give you four free homerow keys to map! But they're really nice if you can get used to them.
Maybe the problem is that you are not supposed to rely solely on hjkl for navigation? Not sure how others use it, but for me most of the navigation are performed with <C-d> / <C-u> / search (long range) or f, w, b etc (shorter range, usually with modifiers). hjkl are almost always used in combination with these to adjust the initial / final location of the cursor.
I sometimes use arrow keys (especially when in edit mode and I don't want to reach up to escape ...) hjkl really shines when combined with other operations like `d5l` or even smarter things.
Not when using Dvorak, here's how it maps from Qwerty:
H->J
J->C
K->V
L->P
Still works pretty well, i've gotten used to it.
Still works pretty well, i've gotten used to it.
Fortunately, j & k are next to each other, and I never noticed any disconnect in vim w/Dvorak. I never use h & l -- mostly space, w/W, or b/B. But I also learned Dvorak before vim, so I never got used to hjkl.
I played a ton of Nethack in college and adopted Dvorak at the same time. hjkl work remarkably well with Dvorak, and I found it so much more natural than the same letters with Qwerty.
j and k being next to each other makes their relative motion sensible still. And the new positions of h and l keep them in the correct relative position to indicate left and right, but easier to use. The right index finger is already on h and the pinky needs to move up one key for l. And up/down is now the left hand, with right/left being on the right hand.
I've found emacs to be similarly more sensible and comfortable, using default key bindings, with Dvorak than Qwerty.
j and k being next to each other makes their relative motion sensible still. And the new positions of h and l keep them in the correct relative position to indicate left and right, but easier to use. The right index finger is already on h and the pinky needs to move up one key for l. And up/down is now the left hand, with right/left being on the right hand.
I've found emacs to be similarly more sensible and comfortable, using default key bindings, with Dvorak than Qwerty.
> the nice point of doing excercise in a web browser is that you can quickly switch to another tab and search for daring questions such as (...)
On the contrary... I'd say that if you are outside a browser, it is somewhat easier to have a browser window side by side and ALT-TAB between both. Having two tabs visible at the same time is a bit cumbersome.
On the contrary... I'd say that if you are outside a browser, it is somewhat easier to have a browser window side by side and ALT-TAB between both. Having two tabs visible at the same time is a bit cumbersome.
On the contrary, having a giant monitor with two tabs open... /s
Who cares? So nit. You could hotkey to switch between two windows of the same program.
Who cares? So nit. You could hotkey to switch between two windows of the same program.
The most shocking thing to me was that after weeks of struggling to get used to hjkl for navigating in vim, I realized that I had already been using jk for navigating up and down on numerous sites (reddit, gmail, twitter) for YEARS.
> " by the way why on earth does this monstrosity want me to use hjkl? That don't make any sense!!!!"
Indeed, why? Using hjkl is about the worst way to move around in vim...
Indeed, why? Using hjkl is about the worst way to move around in vim...
/%<CR>qqnxq19@q is clearly the solution to the "navigate to % and delete it"
Or f%x
That doesn't finish the challenge
It does, actually. But you have to precede the command with <num>G to go to the correct line.
The correct answer!
When you consider the concept of home row keys and touch typing I find it very natural, actually. Its ergonomic and very fast if you get into the habit of resting your fingers on the home row.
Though you may have been alluding to more powerful movements!
Though you may have been alluding to more powerful movements!
This is great!
Another great resource I gotta plug is https://github.com/ThePrimeagen/vim-be-good. Essentially the same but it's a native vim plugin. It's free, doesn't require a login, and did I mention it's a native vim plugin?
Another great resource I gotta plug is https://github.com/ThePrimeagen/vim-be-good. Essentially the same but it's a native vim plugin. It's free, doesn't require a login, and did I mention it's a native vim plugin?
This guy also streams on vim topics frequently on Twitch.
https://www.twitch.tv/theprimeagen
https://www.twitch.tv/theprimeagen
Oh this is neat! I haven’t seen this one around before :) I’ll have to check it out. Thanks for sharing
Or maybe just read/bookmark this single post: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1218390/what-is-your-mos...
That’s neat. Inspired me to give it another go. Thanks
Hey y'all!
I built this interactive course after a year of learning vim and finding it to be extremely useful in my day to day development experience.
The course is designed to give you lots of interactive practice so you can develop the muscle memory needed to effectively use vim.
Would love to hear what you guys think about it :)
I built this interactive course after a year of learning vim and finding it to be extremely useful in my day to day development experience.
The course is designed to give you lots of interactive practice so you can develop the muscle memory needed to effectively use vim.
Would love to hear what you guys think about it :)
I purchased the course but was disappointed that it doesn't go much beyond the basics. For example, there is no tutorial on the dot (.) command, which is one of the main productivity hacks for vim users.
There's also no mention of the slash '/' command, moving to a particular line number with 'Shift-G', 'dw' for deleting words, or any number of things that are essential to know if you want to use vim effectively.
There's also no mention of the slash '/' command, moving to a particular line number with 'Shift-G', 'dw' for deleting words, or any number of things that are essential to know if you want to use vim effectively.
Thank you for informing us. If the course doesn't even cover the dot and dw movements then I'll avoid it.
Thanks for the feedback
What does the dot command do?
Repeats the same command previously run. So if you used 'ci"' for (change text in quotes) and entered a new string, you can jump to a new line and hit . to replay your last series of commands.
I only ever made it to running searches within vim with forward slash, but thanks this is useful to know. I love only using the keyboard but can never easily internalize all the useful macros that can be used.
Hello, I tried purchasing the lifetime access earlier with Google Pay and accidently bought it twice. I did not get any order confirmation email nor do I see the transaction within Google Pay. I was able to get in and do the lessons What should I do? I apologize for reaching out on a public website but there is zero contact information on vim.so.
Hey, I just saw this. Please email me. Email is [email protected]
I’m Kenneth Cassel. I think the confirmation should have gone to whatever email you use for google.
I’m Kenneth Cassel. I think the confirmation should have gone to whatever email you use for google.
I just see a gray screen (after enabling javascript).
EDIT: with another browser, it seems to work, and it looks very cool! But I wonder, what is the interest of learning vim outside of vim? What are the advantages with respect to the similar tutorial "vimtutor" that comes with vim itself?
EDIT: with another browser, it seems to work, and it looks very cool! But I wonder, what is the interest of learning vim outside of vim? What are the advantages with respect to the similar tutorial "vimtutor" that comes with vim itself?
Awesome, glad you got it working :)
I use vim inside of vs code and it’s been awesome for my workflow.
vimtutor is a fantastic resource and I’d definitely recommend using it for anyone interested in learning vim.
vim.so gives you more interactive exercises and helps to show you real life examples of where and how vim would be useful.
Thanks for checking it out!
I use vim inside of vs code and it’s been awesome for my workflow.
vimtutor is a fantastic resource and I’d definitely recommend using it for anyone interested in learning vim.
vim.so gives you more interactive exercises and helps to show you real life examples of where and how vim would be useful.
Thanks for checking it out!
If you use vim inside vscode check Onivim 2 out
Well done on building this.
For some meta-advice: ignore all the salty comments in this thread... it must be a full moon
For some meta-advice: ignore all the salty comments in this thread... it must be a full moon
I advocate organic learning for Vim and often other tools like it. Learn to do the bare minimum first, which for Vim is modes and how to exit. Then, after you find yourself doing something slowly a few times over, search how to speed it up (e.g. yank & paste, different buffers, macros). This is also a good counter argument for "the learning curve is too steep".
Can someone please explain to me why I should learn vim? I've made several attempts in my lifetime because I thought there would be some magical "ah-ha" moment, but it never came.
Separate modes for command & insert just feels inherently clumsy and slow to me. Is there some other killer feature that can't or hasn't been reproduced by modern editors?
Separate modes for command & insert just feels inherently clumsy and slow to me. Is there some other killer feature that can't or hasn't been reproduced by modern editors?
In vim, most commands take the form "[count] operator [count] motion". When you learn a new operator, you can use it with any motion that you know and vice versa; and you can add a count to either. To give a few examples:
- gqip to format (gq) a paragraph (ip).
- g?g? to ROT13 a line (doubling the operator makes it operate on the current line — in this case, g?? also works).
- y2w to copy (y) the next two words (2w) — this requires you to be at the start of the word, but you could use y2aw if you were in the middle of a word.
- dj to delete (d) two lines (j); see ":h linewise".
- dt. to delete (d) until a period (t.), not including the period.
- y% to copy (y) until the matching parentheses (%). If you aren't already on one, vim searches until a "(", which means that you can use this to copy a C-like function call.
Additionally, a subset of these operators and motions are available in plain vi, which is available on any POSIX system (Linux, macOS, *BSD, ...)
It should be possible to do this with a "regular" type of editor, where you have a keyboard shortcut to, for instance, select to the matching parentheses; there just aren't any editors (that I know of) with the same range of motions and operators as vim.
Not moving to the arrow keys or using ctrl-, alt- far outweighs the cost of switching between insert and normal mode.
- gqip to format (gq) a paragraph (ip).
- g?g? to ROT13 a line (doubling the operator makes it operate on the current line — in this case, g?? also works).
- y2w to copy (y) the next two words (2w) — this requires you to be at the start of the word, but you could use y2aw if you were in the middle of a word.
- dj to delete (d) two lines (j); see ":h linewise".
- dt. to delete (d) until a period (t.), not including the period.
- y% to copy (y) until the matching parentheses (%). If you aren't already on one, vim searches until a "(", which means that you can use this to copy a C-like function call.
Additionally, a subset of these operators and motions are available in plain vi, which is available on any POSIX system (Linux, macOS, *BSD, ...)
It should be possible to do this with a "regular" type of editor, where you have a keyboard shortcut to, for instance, select to the matching parentheses; there just aren't any editors (that I know of) with the same range of motions and operators as vim.
Not moving to the arrow keys or using ctrl-, alt- far outweighs the cost of switching between insert and normal mode.
I appreciate the tutorial, but I probably do already "know" vim, but it's not part of my muscle-memory. Context switching to something like writing an email or filling out a web form really makes it not worth getting too comfortable with all these esoteric shortcuts. Do you write all of your emails in vim and browse the web on the command line as well?
From reading the rest of the replies, it sounds like the real answer is "because it's everywhere", which isn't really satisfying. I don't work on lots of machines that aren't my own (embedded/mobile space, which don't have vi installed!), so I don't actually encounter it everyday despite living on the command line.
From reading the rest of the replies, it sounds like the real answer is "because it's everywhere", which isn't really satisfying. I don't work on lots of machines that aren't my own (embedded/mobile space, which don't have vi installed!), so I don't actually encounter it everyday despite living on the command line.
Sorry — I never know when to assume a large amount of knowledge or a small amount of knowledge. The worst for me is "ctrl-w" to delete a word backward in Insert mode, and to delete a tab in the web browser :) Vim is in my muscle memory and it's faster for me, so that's why I use it. It might be faster for you and it might not be faster for you, and if you don't need the portability for POSIX machines it's probably not worth the time.
CTRL+W messes me up sometimes. when i'm in split screen mode with two panes i'll often tap CTRL+W twice to switch panes. very confusing when you forget to exit insert mode.
> Do you write all of your emails in vim and browse the web on the command line as well?
Yes! I use mutt + vim. Composing emails in a textarea is a terrible experience by comparison. (Respect to emacs mail mode users, that’s a great option too.)
I also use w3m for browsing technical stuff, and use tmux for copy & paste into vim.
Yes! I use mutt + vim. Composing emails in a textarea is a terrible experience by comparison. (Respect to emacs mail mode users, that’s a great option too.)
I also use w3m for browsing technical stuff, and use tmux for copy & paste into vim.
> but you could use y2aw if you were in the middle of a word.
Wow, how does it work? Why y3aw doesn't fully work for 3 words (it captures space before the word I started with)?
Wow, how does it work? Why y3aw doesn't fully work for 3 words (it captures space before the word I started with)?
y2iw should copy without enclosing spaces. My mnemonic is "inner word" vs. "a word".
Playing around with this, [count]iw seems to have some really strange behavior — I need to do 3iw to select two words, 5iw to select three words, etc.? I'm not sure if I'm missing something. (I normally don't use many text objects; bdw is in my muscle memory instead of daw, for example.)
perhaps whitespace token is considered a word:
2 words 1 spaces = 3 tokens 3 words 2 spaces = 5 tokens 4 words 3 spaces = 7 tokens ... maybe?
2 words 1 spaces = 3 tokens 3 words 2 spaces = 5 tokens 4 words 3 spaces = 7 tokens ... maybe?
Higher precision in intent for many standard operations. These aren't perfectly Vim commands, but from the Vim-like 'evil mode' for emacs, I have some examples of common idioms I use frequently:
- 'I want to change the name of this variable. <cw> (Change Word)'
- 'I want to copy the contents of this braced block. <yi{> (Yank Inside Matching-braces)'
- 'I want to surround this word in parentheses. <vaws(> (Visual-mode (region selection) Around Word Surround-with Matching-parens)'
You get used to the separate modes fairly quickly. Your existing editor already works that way when switching between 'region' and 'insert' modes; it's just the command mode that throws people off initially. It's not that rough, especially if you have a reasonably placed key to return to command mode.
- 'I want to change the name of this variable. <cw> (Change Word)'
- 'I want to copy the contents of this braced block. <yi{> (Yank Inside Matching-braces)'
- 'I want to surround this word in parentheses. <vaws(> (Visual-mode (region selection) Around Word Surround-with Matching-parens)'
You get used to the separate modes fairly quickly. Your existing editor already works that way when switching between 'region' and 'insert' modes; it's just the command mode that throws people off initially. It's not that rough, especially if you have a reasonably placed key to return to command mode.
> - 'I want to surround this word in parentheses. <vaws(> (Visual-mode (region selection) Around Word Surround-with Matching-parens)'
Holy shit, thank you. I've been looking for something like this for half a decade and never found it (I don't even know how I missed it!)
Holy shit, thank you. I've been looking for something like this for half a decade and never found it (I don't even know how I missed it!)
ysiwb yank-surround-in-word-brackets also does it. If you have https://github.com/tpope/vim-surround/ installed.
Could you please explain why we use Yank here? From what I understand yank puts the surround-in-word in a register.
But there is nothing surrounding the word! I thought yank was for copying and pasting stuff. I can't understand why ysiwb works :(
But there is nothing surrounding the word! I thought yank was for copying and pasting stuff. I can't understand why ysiwb works :(
I believe that this is just an arbitrary choice that doesn't collide with other keys and is fairly consistent with the other keybindings — cs for changing delimiters, ds for deleting delimiters, and ys for creating delimiters.
Thanks! That's really thorny. It goes against the grain of composability and logically destructuring the command into verbs and actions and modifiers.
They should not overload y for yank. Choose anything else that's not used.
They should not overload y for yank. Choose anything else that's not used.
Thanks for the translation! I'll keep that around for future reference.
I believe Vim-proper needs a plugin for that behaviour, so keep that in mind.
Do you know what plugin it is? I will try to search for an evil version (Or I could just write my own, but my task list is large and my energy very low these days)
This is vim-surround by tpope[1]. It does way more than just basic brackets!
[1]: https://github.com/tpope/vim-surround
[1]: https://github.com/tpope/vim-surround
bcw()<Esc>P will do it without plugins.
Having worked both as a sysadmin and a developer, vim is more a benefit to the former by virtue of its ubiquity. Learn vim if you know you will be encountering vim.
> Separate modes for command & insert just feels inherently clumsy and slow to me.
Interesting, I have the opposite experience. In normal mode, I can do a lot using very few keystrokes. In editors without modes, there's always a lot of keyboard shortcuts which are difficult to remember and hard to execute.
Interesting, I have the opposite experience. In normal mode, I can do a lot using very few keystrokes. In editors without modes, there's always a lot of keyboard shortcuts which are difficult to remember and hard to execute.
Modern editors often implement a vi mode, so technically everything already has been reproduced in modern text editors.
Aside from just decades of experience in efficient editing of plain text files over slow connections plus all the modern stuff on top, I'd say text objects, which is one of the first things you learn about vim. And it's not a web browser.
Aside from just decades of experience in efficient editing of plain text files over slow connections plus all the modern stuff on top, I'd say text objects, which is one of the first things you learn about vim. And it's not a web browser.
For me, it's mostly the key bindings rather than the program itself. I use vim key bindings on whatever the latest $editor is rather than learning its keyboard navigation. I got introduced to vim very early on though.
The thesis of vim is that editing is more fundamental to the act of writing than inputting text. The default mode, normal mode, is entirely shortcuts to do editing tasks better and easier. Moving around the document, and moving or deleting text are the primary concern.
What's more, as several other commenters have alluded to, vim thinks of editing as a language. There are verbs like cut or copy or paste, and there are nouns like [this] sentence or [this] word or one word backwards or from here until the letter j. Once you start building sentences of editing commands (e.g. copy from here to the 3rd next instance of the a line starting with 'Hello' namely <y3/^Hello>) the flexibility it offers is unparalleled. This is all done from your default context without fingers leaving the keyboard. Once you achieve fluency (admittedly not a trivial task) there is no context switching for any editing task, it becomes reflexive and subconscious.
Other stuff, like macros and registers, or easy access to regexes and ex commands help extend this, but the core reason why vim is still used today is this strength.
I'd highly recommend another classic response, given here, elaborating on the nature of vim as a language for editing: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1218390/what-is-your-mos...
What's more, as several other commenters have alluded to, vim thinks of editing as a language. There are verbs like cut or copy or paste, and there are nouns like [this] sentence or [this] word or one word backwards or from here until the letter j. Once you start building sentences of editing commands (e.g. copy from here to the 3rd next instance of the a line starting with 'Hello' namely <y3/^Hello>) the flexibility it offers is unparalleled. This is all done from your default context without fingers leaving the keyboard. Once you achieve fluency (admittedly not a trivial task) there is no context switching for any editing task, it becomes reflexive and subconscious.
Other stuff, like macros and registers, or easy access to regexes and ex commands help extend this, but the core reason why vim is still used today is this strength.
I'd highly recommend another classic response, given here, elaborating on the nature of vim as a language for editing: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1218390/what-is-your-mos...
Because the text motions, once learned, are extremely powerful and will cause your relationship to textual data to fundamentally change. All while avoiding wrist injury, because some critical keys (f, t, g, j, q) are so lettered due to the location on the keyboard. Think of your keyboard as more like a piano than an alphabet.
If you live and breath the command line it's a great skill to have because it's available everywhere and it's a very powerful editor. If you're not a heavy command line user, you are probably fine sticking with whatever you already know.
there is no reason you "should" other than in some environments you may encounter vi so it is worth knowing the basics.
There are many advantages, however, clumsy and slow is a common reaction. From what I've seen, some people get so put off by the different way of editing that they struggle, they find vim a very slow way to do what they were doing before vim - character based editing, moving around with arrow keys, highlighting, inserting, and deleting maybe with some block commands for things like selecting a word or more by using the shift key or ctrl key. Maybe with the help of the mouse to highlight things and edit. The thing with vi/m is there is a language that allows you to do similar editing but has many many combo effects, once you understand how things combo together, all kinds of things can be done really quickly.
There's no real killer feature though, there's lots of cool features, one that often doesn't get mentioned much is that you can filter text through external programs, this combos with all the motion commands and other things, so very quickly you could write a snippet of markdown and change it into html by running it through pandoc, or write your own command line tools that do custom things, like querying things from your own apis / databases etc. Its powerful, because it combos with the rest of the vi/m language so you can use it in really creative ways.
There are many advantages, however, clumsy and slow is a common reaction. From what I've seen, some people get so put off by the different way of editing that they struggle, they find vim a very slow way to do what they were doing before vim - character based editing, moving around with arrow keys, highlighting, inserting, and deleting maybe with some block commands for things like selecting a word or more by using the shift key or ctrl key. Maybe with the help of the mouse to highlight things and edit. The thing with vi/m is there is a language that allows you to do similar editing but has many many combo effects, once you understand how things combo together, all kinds of things can be done really quickly.
There's no real killer feature though, there's lots of cool features, one that often doesn't get mentioned much is that you can filter text through external programs, this combos with all the motion commands and other things, so very quickly you could write a snippet of markdown and change it into html by running it through pandoc, or write your own command line tools that do custom things, like querying things from your own apis / databases etc. Its powerful, because it combos with the rest of the vi/m language so you can use it in really creative ways.
If you work a lot on the command line on UNIX and Linux systems, vi is the best choice for many because it is extremely widely available and it is also very powerful once you have mastered it.
Sorry, but this is the same non-answer I have heard my entire life.
I do primarily work on the command line and I can assign $EDITOR to anything I want. So what makes it so much more powerful than the plethora of other editors in the space?
I do primarily work on the command line and I can assign $EDITOR to anything I want. So what makes it so much more powerful than the plethora of other editors in the space?
Vim removes mental load while typing. It won’t make you significantly faster, or even really a better programmer in any measurable way. What it does is make the experience of writing text, and especially writing code, far more pleasant.
If I ever have to write something nowadays without vim, everything feels clumsy and imprecise. If I want to go back a couple of words and change something, I feel like I’m playing a timing minigame. I have to hold the left arrow key exactly the right amount of time. Most of the time I overshoot a couple of characters, and have to tap the right arrow key to get to the right spot. Now repeat the same timing minigame holding backspace. Ah crap I deleted too much better undo a couple of times. Now I can finally make my change.
All of this is just unnecessary friction between your brain and the computer that anyone who hasn’t learned vim accepts as a fact of life, but it becomes completely intolerable after spending the time to learn.
If I ever have to write something nowadays without vim, everything feels clumsy and imprecise. If I want to go back a couple of words and change something, I feel like I’m playing a timing minigame. I have to hold the left arrow key exactly the right amount of time. Most of the time I overshoot a couple of characters, and have to tap the right arrow key to get to the right spot. Now repeat the same timing minigame holding backspace. Ah crap I deleted too much better undo a couple of times. Now I can finally make my change.
All of this is just unnecessary friction between your brain and the computer that anyone who hasn’t learned vim accepts as a fact of life, but it becomes completely intolerable after spending the time to learn.
If you deal with many machines, it's very possible that they don't all have your preferred editor (unless it's vi). vi is on every POSIX system.
Because it is full-featured editor running fully in text mode (so you can run it on the remote server or over a serial line) and uses short commands for most text edit needs. In comparison nano provides only very basic feaures (like Notepad) and emacs (according to Stallman) is like an operating system with more complicated keyboard shortcuts. Of course you can run VisualStudio Code over VPN but that would waste too much network traffic and the input would lag more.
I equate it to touch-typing. Do you think about each keystroke or do you just type? It’s the same way with editing when you’ve learned it. I don’t know that it has to be vim but that’s what clicked with me.
> why
There is no reason really, you either hear the call of the wild or you don’t and it’s perfectly fine if you prefer emacs, acme, nano or vscode.
The simple fact that the choice is so large is that people “click” in many interesting ways.
There is no reason really, you either hear the call of the wild or you don’t and it’s perfectly fine if you prefer emacs, acme, nano or vscode.
The simple fact that the choice is so large is that people “click” in many interesting ways.
Speed of editing files (especially code, but not just code) is unparalleled. Anytime I have to use something besides vim, it feels like trying to run in knee-deep water - so sluggish.
> Can someone please explain to me why I should learn vim? I've made several attempts in my lifetime because I thought there would be some magical "ah-ha" moment, but it never came.
It's faster. I've been using vim motions for almost 9 years at this point, 8 years in vim, vi, ex-vi, neovim, etc. Most recently I've moved to Doom Emacs (Which feels like an editor I'll be using in whatever forms it takes, for the next 20+ years). The experience of when you get used to it is essentially that you are so practiced with the motions that they become sub-concsious, muscle-memory. I don't have to think about where to place the cursor, figure out where the mouse cursor is, deal with a bunch of weird pasting tricks. To delete a line I just have to will myself to delete it (using 'dd'), just like I don't have to think about the complex action of getting up off the bed, I just do it (At least, on days when Mr Depresso isn't visiting). Eventually, it feels like the editor is part of you. And at this point I can't give up vim motions. Editing in anything else is uncomfortable and painful because the ease and speed with which vim allows me to do complex motions and actions is so convenient.
I can't speak for your experience, but for me I had to struggle through it a bit until I found the 'ah-ha' -- that might not come for you, or maybe you haven't found it yet, unfortunately.
I would look into using more motions, don't see it as a replacement for Gedit, or Atom, or any of the mouse+keyboard text editors -- it's not. Trying to use it like those will lead nowhere.
The trick that worked for me is to find motions that are convenient, and move ESCAPE to a more palatable key -- I swapped it with CAPS LOCK, since I pretty much never, ever have to use that key (I can always highlight 2 words with `v2w` and press `~`, which will swap the case of it, anyway). The 'finding of the motions' is important. I spend 90% of my time in a text editor moving, and cutting text, rather than typing. A motion like `}` allows me to move the cursor down a paragraph, `d}` will delete said paragraph, `v}y` will copy it, etc. Often I find myself deleting `t`o a place. So I can do `dt#` to delete to the comment at the end of a line. ^O will go to my previous cursor position, etc.
I would also recommend looking up Practical Vim -- it's probably the best Vim handbook out there (Easily accessible via genlib if you want to try before you buy), and there are still things in there I haven't learned and integrated into my workflow yet (For example, `vi)` to fast-edit bracket sequences, that I haven't bothered with much).
---
Regardless of all of that you need to decide if that effort is worth it for you. I know an extremely skilled programmer who writes and deals with extremely complex code just using Gedit (previously Geany).
It's faster. I've been using vim motions for almost 9 years at this point, 8 years in vim, vi, ex-vi, neovim, etc. Most recently I've moved to Doom Emacs (Which feels like an editor I'll be using in whatever forms it takes, for the next 20+ years). The experience of when you get used to it is essentially that you are so practiced with the motions that they become sub-concsious, muscle-memory. I don't have to think about where to place the cursor, figure out where the mouse cursor is, deal with a bunch of weird pasting tricks. To delete a line I just have to will myself to delete it (using 'dd'), just like I don't have to think about the complex action of getting up off the bed, I just do it (At least, on days when Mr Depresso isn't visiting). Eventually, it feels like the editor is part of you. And at this point I can't give up vim motions. Editing in anything else is uncomfortable and painful because the ease and speed with which vim allows me to do complex motions and actions is so convenient.
I can't speak for your experience, but for me I had to struggle through it a bit until I found the 'ah-ha' -- that might not come for you, or maybe you haven't found it yet, unfortunately.
I would look into using more motions, don't see it as a replacement for Gedit, or Atom, or any of the mouse+keyboard text editors -- it's not. Trying to use it like those will lead nowhere.
The trick that worked for me is to find motions that are convenient, and move ESCAPE to a more palatable key -- I swapped it with CAPS LOCK, since I pretty much never, ever have to use that key (I can always highlight 2 words with `v2w` and press `~`, which will swap the case of it, anyway). The 'finding of the motions' is important. I spend 90% of my time in a text editor moving, and cutting text, rather than typing. A motion like `}` allows me to move the cursor down a paragraph, `d}` will delete said paragraph, `v}y` will copy it, etc. Often I find myself deleting `t`o a place. So I can do `dt#` to delete to the comment at the end of a line. ^O will go to my previous cursor position, etc.
I would also recommend looking up Practical Vim -- it's probably the best Vim handbook out there (Easily accessible via genlib if you want to try before you buy), and there are still things in there I haven't learned and integrated into my workflow yet (For example, `vi)` to fast-edit bracket sequences, that I haven't bothered with much).
---
Regardless of all of that you need to decide if that effort is worth it for you. I know an extremely skilled programmer who writes and deals with extremely complex code just using Gedit (previously Geany).
Spoiler alert: the ah-ha moment will never come. Will learning vim help you create the nexr facebook, tiktok, snapchat, insta, amazon? Not at all.
Will it help you program better? nope.
Will it help you be a better programmer? nope.
Will it help you program better? nope.
Will it help you be a better programmer? nope.
I do like the idea, but it doesn't seem to support some expected features.
Like <esc>:5d doesn't delete line #5. I get "Not an editor command"
Edit: Looked into it, and it's using the Ace Editor[1] with vim key bindings. Which seems like an odd choice for a Vim tutor, since Ace doesn't really try to be a true Vim workalike.
[1] https://ace.c9.io/
Like <esc>:5d doesn't delete line #5. I get "Not an editor command"
Edit: Looked into it, and it's using the Ace Editor[1] with vim key bindings. Which seems like an odd choice for a Vim tutor, since Ace doesn't really try to be a true Vim workalike.
[1] https://ace.c9.io/
Implementing a full vi clone seems like a nightmare — the POSIX specification makes me lose hope in humanity :) For instance, what does :delep parse to? I would never have guessed that it was the :delete command with the "p" flag (because :delete p deletes into "p).
There's a WASM port of Vim: https://rhysd.github.io/vim.wasm/
You can even do "<esc>:e tutor" to run vimtutor. Also, "<esc>:export" does an http download of the current buffer contents.
You can even do "<esc>:e tutor" to run vimtutor. Also, "<esc>:export" does an http download of the current buffer contents.
It would be nice if you at least listed what the exercises are before asking for money.
Couldn't find it anywhere either. Here is the list from twitter https://twitter.com/KennethCassel/status/1351916897823059970
I agree to a degree. Listing a bit more about Vim itself for someone that might be coming from a development background but does not specifically know about Vim and it's benefits could be good, and maybe what TYPE of exercises will be involved (What will I be be able to do at the end) - but keeping the exercises a little secretive is great to keep interest :)
Wow, this is incredibly scummy. Basically your logic is, "If they knew what I was selling, they wouldn't buy my course. But if they don't know then I might trick a few of them in to buying something they don't want".
edit: Note, I realize this isn't OP that I'm replying to. Not sure if what I wrote makes that clear.
edit: Note, I realize this isn't OP that I'm replying to. Not sure if what I wrote makes that clear.
What does $15 get me? I don't see any listing of the lessons.
Why is this better than vimtutor?
Why is this better than vimtutor?
I would also like to know this - as far as I could see, there was only one pretty meaningless lesson about alternate arrow keys - IMO, this doesn't sell Vim to a newbie, nor does it sell the $15 product
I liked the first exercise, then I had to use the mouse to dismiss my success dialog! I thought the whole point of vim was ...
(That's up there with Haskell package management depending on "global variables" in a fixed settings file.)
(That's up there with Haskell package management depending on "global variables" in a fixed settings file.)
I know that vim is particularly enjoyed. The site looks nice and I wish you the best luck with this.
But for beginners, I now recommend micro as a console text editor (https://github.com/zyedidia/micro). It's a one line install with all the shortcuts and display that have become a standard across editors.
But for beginners, I now recommend micro as a console text editor (https://github.com/zyedidia/micro). It's a one line install with all the shortcuts and display that have become a standard across editors.
Does anyone know who had the bright idea to replace vi with nano as the standard text editor and why this became some sort of standard?
I really don't get it. Vi is unintuitive and unfamiliar to unix newebies, but at some point every even half-competent person on unix could use it enough to at least do simple config file changes. Plus, if you took time to learn it properly, you actually knew a quite capable editor. And the beginner unfriendliness could presumably have been mostly fixed, without much cost to existing expert users. For example by defaulting to some helpful status message how look at help and insert text (and have cursor keys and Ctrl-S etc. work as "expected" in insert mode). Or maybe a message "press Ctrl-D to enter newbie mode" that experienced vimers could just ignore but would provide CUA style keybindings and modeless editing to everyone else.
Instead now everyone has to deal with a new (and for proficient users really quite worthless) editor with its own set of completely bizarre keybindings (not emacs, not readline, not vi, not CUA), but none of the upsides that come with emacs or vi's idiosyncracies. Ctrl-O to save? WTF? Literally the only advantage over vi is that it displays some instructions at the bottom, albeit not in a form any real newbie would understand at all.
Nano (and by extension this) feel like the worst of all possible worlds -- what am I missing?
I really don't get it. Vi is unintuitive and unfamiliar to unix newebies, but at some point every even half-competent person on unix could use it enough to at least do simple config file changes. Plus, if you took time to learn it properly, you actually knew a quite capable editor. And the beginner unfriendliness could presumably have been mostly fixed, without much cost to existing expert users. For example by defaulting to some helpful status message how look at help and insert text (and have cursor keys and Ctrl-S etc. work as "expected" in insert mode). Or maybe a message "press Ctrl-D to enter newbie mode" that experienced vimers could just ignore but would provide CUA style keybindings and modeless editing to everyone else.
Instead now everyone has to deal with a new (and for proficient users really quite worthless) editor with its own set of completely bizarre keybindings (not emacs, not readline, not vi, not CUA), but none of the upsides that come with emacs or vi's idiosyncracies. Ctrl-O to save? WTF? Literally the only advantage over vi is that it displays some instructions at the bottom, albeit not in a form any real newbie would understand at all.
Nano (and by extension this) feel like the worst of all possible worlds -- what am I missing?
The logic I always thought was that if you are working at the console on a server and dealing with the default $EDITOR, you most likely are doing some kind of emergency maintenance. In this scenario, you want to throw the most gentle/easy-to-use editor at the user to ensure they don't accidentally overwrite a file or something else because they've been trying to bring prod back up all night and can't see straight.
If you use the box for more than 5 minutes a year, you'll probably change it to vim or whatever you prefer anyway.
If you use the box for more than 5 minutes a year, you'll probably change it to vim or whatever you prefer anyway.
I've just realized that nano was initially released in 1999! Apparently, they just copied pico key bindings, that was used as an extremely light editor.
For the rest, there is to me a cultural divide between a sysadmin/dev culture with abstract interfaces, specific key bindings and options, configuration files, ... and the thousands of people with various backgrounds that are learning tech today, including the console, just to do something using computers.
Micro is probably the best of both worlds. Try editing an admin file as a user and save.
For the rest, there is to me a cultural divide between a sysadmin/dev culture with abstract interfaces, specific key bindings and options, configuration files, ... and the thousands of people with various backgrounds that are learning tech today, including the console, just to do something using computers.
Micro is probably the best of both worlds. Try editing an admin file as a user and save.
I'm bothered by this because Vim is free, with only a hopeful plea for a donation to a charity for helping Uganda as the "payment."
It feels a tad unethical to be charging for a slightly more fancy, maybe kinda gamified, vimtutor. Like, just make a vim plugin that does this in vim and let that be your community donation.
But I suppose business is business eh.
It feels a tad unethical to be charging for a slightly more fancy, maybe kinda gamified, vimtutor. Like, just make a vim plugin that does this in vim and let that be your community donation.
But I suppose business is business eh.
I don’t agree with the viewpoint but the revenue here has helped me sponsor one of my favorite open source projects FastAPI at $250/mo.
There’s value in providing teaching on something that is free. I’ve bought learning tools/apps for many different programming related topics and loved the value they provided.
There’s value in providing teaching on something that is free. I’ve bought learning tools/apps for many different programming related topics and loved the value they provided.
yeah, but again nothing stops you (or me, or anyone else reading this) to do it for free... except we will not, as we're busy earning money in other ways, so I don't think any of us can really claim a moral high ground here - and tutoring people for money is certainly much better than not tutoring them at all...
It's not "unethical" to charge money for a product that you made from scratch. People on this website really like that word, "unethical". Makes me wonder if they even know what it means. "Unethical: something you don't like."?
I'm not bothered by it. I've thought about making a SaaS where I basically just host pre-compiled FOSS packages for esoteric cpu architectures. So that way if you have a <insert random CPU> embedded linux system, you can quickly grab a precompiled `tshark` for example without figuring out how to build it yourself. Sure, it would be better as a free service, but I'm not super motivated to do that in my highly limited spare time. I would be super motivated if I were compensated for my effort with cash, however.
Making something paid vs. free can be the difference between it existing and not existing. I'd rather have this exist and be a paid app than not exist and be free.
Making something paid vs. free can be the difference between it existing and not existing. I'd rather have this exist and be a paid app than not exist and be free.
I never buy things but this just hit on my exact pain point of trying to get good at VIM. The one thing that's holding me back is understanding how much content there is behind the 15 dollars. I really liked the demo exercise but are there only 10 more behind that?
See also https://www.openvim.com/
Another useful resource:
http://vimcasts.org/
http://vimcasts.org/
Want to learn vim and make it stick?
0. Learn the basic movements and UI interactions. Do NOT use the arrow keys. Your future self will thank you tremendously.
1. Search DuckDuckGo for "vim cheatsheet" and find one that provides a good summary of commands thats organized to your liking.
2. Print it out and post it somewhere easily accessible to your working space.
3. Each-ish day, review the cheatsheet a bit and pick one one new kind of command that looks useful. Try to integrate that command into your workflow throughout the day. It'll be clumsy at first, but after you do it a few times you'll be surprised at how much faster this gets.
Focus on movement and editing first. Take note of sequences that seem to take a lot of work, as almost guaranteed there is a faster way you can integrate in later.
Once you've got a small core built up, do another review and research more specialized topics:
- .vimrc, colors, and customization
- plugins
- buffers, windows, etc for quick workspace organization
- macros ... and macros within macros!
- visual blocks
- various useful commands for advanced editing (e.g. regex based find in replace in an entire doc or visual block is epic)
Give yourself time and try not to be too loud when you have your first "A ha!" moment when you randomly try a completely new key combo that you think should work and it actually does exactly what you hoped.
0. Learn the basic movements and UI interactions. Do NOT use the arrow keys. Your future self will thank you tremendously.
1. Search DuckDuckGo for "vim cheatsheet" and find one that provides a good summary of commands thats organized to your liking.
2. Print it out and post it somewhere easily accessible to your working space.
3. Each-ish day, review the cheatsheet a bit and pick one one new kind of command that looks useful. Try to integrate that command into your workflow throughout the day. It'll be clumsy at first, but after you do it a few times you'll be surprised at how much faster this gets.
Focus on movement and editing first. Take note of sequences that seem to take a lot of work, as almost guaranteed there is a faster way you can integrate in later.
Once you've got a small core built up, do another review and research more specialized topics:
- .vimrc, colors, and customization
- plugins
- buffers, windows, etc for quick workspace organization
- macros ... and macros within macros!
- visual blocks
- various useful commands for advanced editing (e.g. regex based find in replace in an entire doc or visual block is epic)
Give yourself time and try not to be too loud when you have your first "A ha!" moment when you randomly try a completely new key combo that you think should work and it actually does exactly what you hoped.
This looks great! Do agree with others though, that you should expose the course sections. I don’t use vim as my main IDE but I still do use it for quick edits and commit messages, so I don’t know nothing about it. Would be great to see if the course is more/less/same as my current working knowledge. But also a one-time $15 isn’t bad at all, thank you for not trying to make this a subscription :)
Most IDEs have a vim extension that gives you the basic vim editing behavior. It’s great to get into it without having to dive into plugins, buffers, windows etc.
Nice trial exercise on the front page. While trying it out, I wanted to use the backspace key, which in Vim moves to the last character on the previous line (when used on the beginning of a line, that is), but that didn't work - backspace on the start of the line doesn't seem to move the cursor at all.
I was pleasantly surprised that cw and D are implemented correctly though, so props on that!
I was pleasantly surprised that cw and D are implemented correctly though, so props on that!
> backspace on the start of the line doesn't seem to move the cursor at all.
AFAIK that's controlled by "set backspace=" and thus will vary based on one's .vimrc (or the system vimrc, installed by the package manager): https://stackoverflow.com/questions/18777705/vim-whats-the-d...
One can see the current value of the backspace setting via
AFAIK that's controlled by "set backspace=" and thus will vary based on one's .vimrc (or the system vimrc, installed by the package manager): https://stackoverflow.com/questions/18777705/vim-whats-the-d...
One can see the current value of the backspace setting via
<ESC>:echo &backspaceActually, the 'backspace' setting only governs what the backspace key does in Insert mode. In Normal mode, which is what I was referring to in GP, has the behavior I describe regardless of how 'backspace' is configured.
Ah, my apologies; I had never considered using backspace as a navigation operation. I would guess vim does not offer customization over what the backspace key does for the same reason they don't allow changing how many spaces pressing Tab while in Normal mode moves the cursor forward, either
I was inspired by this newfound "using unexpected keys for navigation" discovery and found that (at least in my vim 8.2) holding down space in Normal mode similarly travels across the EOL boundary, just as backspace reverses that trend, so at least it's consistent
I was inspired by this newfound "using unexpected keys for navigation" discovery and found that (at least in my vim 8.2) holding down space in Normal mode similarly travels across the EOL boundary, just as backspace reverses that trend, so at least it's consistent
> they don't allow changing how many spaces pressing Tab while in Normal mode moves the cursor forward
I'm pretty sure vanilla Vim doesn't do anything when pressing Tab in Normal mode - at least for me it certainly doesn't move the cursor.
I'm pretty sure vanilla Vim doesn't do anything when pressing Tab in Normal mode - at least for me it certainly doesn't move the cursor.
Does anybody have recommendations on how to go from "comfortable" to "expert"?
I've been using vim as my daily driver via the intellij plugin for a few years. I mostly just navigate and never do anything complicated, it gets the job done.
For example I mostly use w, d, o, hjkl, y, p, w, b, t and recently discovered the `c+i` combo which is awesome.
But I feel like there's still a side of vim I haven't conquered.
Any tips?
I've been using vim as my daily driver via the intellij plugin for a few years. I mostly just navigate and never do anything complicated, it gets the job done.
For example I mostly use w, d, o, hjkl, y, p, w, b, t and recently discovered the `c+i` combo which is awesome.
But I feel like there's still a side of vim I haven't conquered.
Any tips?
I've been using Vim for many years and felt like there was constantly stuff to learn. So a partner and I started an email newsletter that sends tips twice a week:
https://vimtricks.com
The idea was that by forcing myself to write about Vim consistently, I would learn and absorb more and boy has it worked.
https://vimtricks.com
The idea was that by forcing myself to write about Vim consistently, I would learn and absorb more and boy has it worked.
thanks for making this! The undo from insert mode¹ one sold it for me :)
[1] https://vimtricks.com/p/undo-from-insert-mode/
[1] https://vimtricks.com/p/undo-from-insert-mode/
Um. I think that's wrong, though. Pressing c-u just erases to the beginning of the line in insert mode, it's not an undo.
Ah, I guess should've tried before saying. Just excited there's a way.
Oh, I was excited too:) So excited that I immediately tried it...
Updated the post, thanks!
Looks great, subscribed!
As an aside, I love the vim keybinds with IntelliJ combo, vim makes it so easy to navigate and perform operations, eg. the one I use most being dt<some char> to delete until a char.
Never can seem to get vim selections and deletions right though, because it deletes the character after the cursor as well so the mouse comes clutch there.
Never can seem to get vim selections and deletions right though, because it deletes the character after the cursor as well so the mouse comes clutch there.
I use vim as my main driver at work. Some things that helped me out personally:
- Playing some vimgolf and seeing what neat tricks people used. This is where I learned about “.”
- Going into the deep-end of just using vim (or just vim in IntelliJ without the mouse) will make you notice all the issues that make you unproductive with only vim e.g getting around with only hjkl is really slow so you might investigate other ways to navigate or deleting a word always involves getting to the end of the word and using lots of backspace may make you wonder if there are more efficient ways to do the same thing
- if you decide not to go into the deep-end, just being more picky about how much you’re spamming certain keys may help you gradually incorporate new commands into your flow
- Playing some vimgolf and seeing what neat tricks people used. This is where I learned about “.”
- Going into the deep-end of just using vim (or just vim in IntelliJ without the mouse) will make you notice all the issues that make you unproductive with only vim e.g getting around with only hjkl is really slow so you might investigate other ways to navigate or deleting a word always involves getting to the end of the word and using lots of backspace may make you wonder if there are more efficient ways to do the same thing
- if you decide not to go into the deep-end, just being more picky about how much you’re spamming certain keys may help you gradually incorporate new commands into your flow
Maybe try vim golf for fun.
I would recommend using vim in the console without the mouse because your editor will always give you a way out of learning.
Every time you get stuck or feel inefficient, do a web search and learn one thing.
Learn to use and love :help.
I think a few plugins can really improve the experience such as coc, ultisnips, vim-surround. Also set some settings like relative number and highlighted yank.
Some other stuff to investigate... zz and scrolling, folding, G, macros, registers, f, $ and ^ and 0, %, }, ctrl-o, ctrl-] and ctags, formatting gq = etc
Edit: also remembered enable set hidden and use buffers and splits (eg :sbp). Use markers. Also I like the fzf plugin for quickly opening files etc.
I would recommend using vim in the console without the mouse because your editor will always give you a way out of learning.
Every time you get stuck or feel inefficient, do a web search and learn one thing.
Learn to use and love :help.
I think a few plugins can really improve the experience such as coc, ultisnips, vim-surround. Also set some settings like relative number and highlighted yank.
Some other stuff to investigate... zz and scrolling, folding, G, macros, registers, f, $ and ^ and 0, %, }, ctrl-o, ctrl-] and ctags, formatting gq = etc
Edit: also remembered enable set hidden and use buffers and splits (eg :sbp). Use markers. Also I like the fzf plugin for quickly opening files etc.
Practical Vim by Drew Neil is definitely a way to go. It teached me stuff I wouldn't have discovered otherwise.
Mayte try learn vim the hard way? https://learnvimscriptthehardway.stevelosh.com/
This looks great! Thank you!
Read the user manual. I'm not trying to be snarky - the user manual is explicitly something that isn't the same as the reference and the user manual is called out as the next step after `vimtutor`.
Start with `:h user-manual` and go from there!
Start with `:h user-manual` and go from there!
> For example I mostly use w, d, o, hjkl, y, p, w, b, t and recently discovered the `c+i` combo which is awesome.
In addition to these, I've found (my personal experience, ymmv):
1) f/F to jump to next/previous occurrence of character to help navigating within a line very effectively, in conjunction with ; and , to jump around within these occurences. 2) use relative line numbers in conjunction with your hjkl.
E.g. jump up 5 lines and go to the start of a bracket is '5kf('. If it's a nested bracket you want, then '5kf(;'.
In addition to these, I've found (my personal experience, ymmv):
1) f/F to jump to next/previous occurrence of character to help navigating within a line very effectively, in conjunction with ; and , to jump around within these occurences. 2) use relative line numbers in conjunction with your hjkl.
E.g. jump up 5 lines and go to the start of a bracket is '5kf('. If it's a nested bracket you want, then '5kf(;'.
nice, thanks for the tips
yes! my path to "expert" was more in the lines of questioning my commonly used editing functions:
1. how to delete text inside a double quote and go to insert mode? - c+i+"
2. how to move to the end of line? - $
3. how to delete everything before "x" character and go insert mode" - c+t+x
...
EDIT: updated mistakes.
1. how to delete text inside a double quote and go to insert mode? - c+i+"
2. how to move to the end of line? - $
3. how to delete everything before "x" character and go insert mode" - c+t+x
...
EDIT: updated mistakes.
> 1. how to edit words inside a double quote? - "ciw"
ciw will change inner word, ci" will change inside quotes
> 2. how to move to the end of line? - "g_"
$ is generally used as the noun object to represent "end of the current line"
> 3. how to delete everything before "x" character" - "ctx"
dtx would delete everything before the next x. ctx would delete and then put you in insert mode :)
ciw will change inner word, ci" will change inside quotes
> 2. how to move to the end of line? - "g_"
$ is generally used as the noun object to represent "end of the current line"
> 3. how to delete everything before "x" character" - "ctx"
dtx would delete everything before the next x. ctx would delete and then put you in insert mode :)
thanks for correcting my mistakes :)
I found that learning q has made coding without vim very annoying.
RTFM. Seriously.
Hey, would you be open to selling the front end code you've used to stand up your course? Very curious of your billing backend as well!
This is neat but newcomers beware. This is the easy part. Setting up your config and plugins is why most people go back to ides
Aren't you supposed to avoid plugins and config so that vi/m will be familiar everywhere you go? That's the advice I've gotten on this board.
If you setup your dotfiles correctly, your vim environment should be accessible with a simple `git pull`.
The plugins are very worth it, there's no need to handicap yourself locally just so your environment matches some bare bones server config.
And regardless, the basic vim motions are always there - you don't lose much when just editing some config files on a server even if you have to use vanilla vim
The plugins are very worth it, there's no need to handicap yourself locally just so your environment matches some bare bones server config.
And regardless, the basic vim motions are always there - you don't lose much when just editing some config files on a server even if you have to use vanilla vim
My approach is to just use all the tools. I use clumsy IDEs when I really need powerful debugging. I use vim when I need powerful editing/macros. Sometimes I do code browsing with ctags. Sometimes I do code browsing with Eclipse. There's no need to be a purist.
Except vim. No plugins into vim. That is sacrilege.
Except vim. No plugins into vim. That is sacrilege.
$15 for lifetime access... rubs chin... I'm old. Would you take $5 as my life is 2/3 gone?
Even though, admit it... If the course is really good, the extra $10 are nothing compared to the several hours of frustration that you could save.
Or save all frustration and just don’t use vim ;-)
I've used vim for many years now. It is true, learning vim makes it very frustrating when you find yourself having to use another editor. Luckily, vim is pretty much everywhere so those situations are rare.
I find that vim really shines in editing text on touch screens with on-screen keyboards. I can do complicated commands without doing too much typing out digging through menus or using ctrl alt whatever keys.
What devices with on-screen keyboards are you running vim in?
Just my cellphone.
If you think vim is frustrating for a beginner, you have no idea what it feels like to edit text in non-vim for a half-assed vim user. Really, I don’t master vim after >1decade, but that’s not necessary.
Pair programming is a real pain for me when most of my colleagues just don’t use Vim.
irrational indeed :-)
It seems one of these vim tutorials comes up every 6 months or so, and the one thing they're all missing is a convincing explanation of why someone should learn all the esoteric incantations of a 30-year old text editor.
it's nice not having to constantly lift my hand to use the mouse when i'm just looking through files and making small changes. i can keep my hands on the keyboard for up to an hour and get stuff done, so long as the task at hand only requires a command line interface and a text editor.
you're going to outlive the site
it's actually the lifetime of your email address
Does it include practical use cases demonstrating how vim tricks can really come in handy in real life? This probably is the hardest part for me - I can't imagine a case where I would like to use any of them I've ever read about (yet I still feel interested).
Not a mega power vim user, but maybe this qualifies. I use vim as my git editor. When doing interactive rebase, if I want to squash/fix commits, for example, I go to the first commit I want to change the command for, ‘ciw’ to change the command, ‘esc’ to exit exit, then for the subsequent commits I want to squash/fix, just use ‘.’ to replay those same commands to the new line. Works very well! I love using vim as the git editor, it’s stupid fast, and doesn’t take you away from the command line
That's a neat tip, thanks for sharing that, this is the exact use case I was looking for.
I was hoping to kick the can on learning vim macros down the road, and so here we go...
I was hoping to kick the can on learning vim macros down the road, and so here we go...
No problem! Happy to help with things I wish people told me long ago :)
Yes it does, all the exercises past the basic navigation one are real life use cases for how it can be used.
I need to add some better copy and examples on the landing page so people will know what they're getting.
Here's a video on twitter that demonstrates one of the exercises https://twitter.com/KennethCassel/status/1351178904686514178...
I need to add some better copy and examples on the landing page so people will know what they're getting.
Here's a video on twitter that demonstrates one of the exercises https://twitter.com/KennethCassel/status/1351178904686514178...
I'm considering learning more vim besides "esc /insert and :q :w" and this might be a great start.
As an emacs user it's frustrating having to install emacs to do some config editing whereas in my experience vim is included everywhere. e.g. my router.
As an emacs user it's frustrating having to install emacs to do some config editing whereas in my experience vim is included everywhere. e.g. my router.
You've also got "u" for undo. That's another one for you.
A tangential question, why is .so the new cool TLD to use for tech startups/projects?
I know the lack of availability of .com/other common TLDs is a problem. I understand the reasoning behind using .io to represent software/saas startups (stands for inputs/outputs). I don't understand .so though. From what I remember, Notion was probably the first high profile startup using it, and it just kinda took off. Searching "why .so domain" comes up with nothing except a Reddit thread with the Notion founder saying it was mostly because it was just an available TLD for "notion" at the time.
I know the lack of availability of .com/other common TLDs is a problem. I understand the reasoning behind using .io to represent software/saas startups (stands for inputs/outputs). I don't understand .so though. From what I remember, Notion was probably the first high profile startup using it, and it just kinda took off. Searching "why .so domain" comes up with nothing except a Reddit thread with the Notion founder saying it was mostly because it was just an available TLD for "notion" at the time.
It was just a good domain name that was available and I bought it lol. Not sure why the trend exists.
If you want to internalize the vi cursor keys hjkl a good and fun way to do it is to play "hunt" (part of the "bsdgames" debian package, man page at https://manpages.debian.org/unstable/bsdgames/hunt.6.en.html ).
Hunt is a text based 2d multiplayer labyrinth deathmatch game. It even has a unique feature: Labyrinth walls that you can shoot and that will eventually regrow (sometimes different than before).
Hunt is a text based 2d multiplayer labyrinth deathmatch game. It even has a unique feature: Labyrinth walls that you can shoot and that will eventually regrow (sometimes different than before).
I you want to learn vim movements quickly, start using a browser plugin with vim keybindings like VimFX it Vimium. Stop using the mouse to browse the internet. You'll get hours of practice doing something you'd do anyway. The muscle memory will be there when you open vim. Also, turn off arrow keys in vim. Vim is keyboard and home row centric, all else follows. Also doing dojo exercises like on commandlinefu.cim helps.
Show HN: I built an online interactive course that helps you learn vim* faster
*You have a small typo in your title: should be spelled "emacs" ;)
Kidding aside, the course is fun, nice work.
Per other comments in the thread, if you want to integrate vim muscle memory and browsers, check out the Vimium extension for Chrome (granted, I've overwritten the defaults with emacs, but the idea has still been helpful and minimized mouse use).
*You have a small typo in your title: should be spelled "emacs" ;)
Kidding aside, the course is fun, nice work.
Per other comments in the thread, if you want to integrate vim muscle memory and browsers, check out the Vimium extension for Chrome (granted, I've overwritten the defaults with emacs, but the idea has still been helpful and minimized mouse use).
Emacs tutorials can be one line: "ctrl-x ctrl-c".
An Ode to Quitting Vim:
ESC
Ctrl-C
ESC
Ctrl-Q
ESC
Ctrl-Z
* dangit, suspended *
fg
ESC
:q
E37: No write since last change (add ! to override)
!
E37: No write since last change (add ! to override)
!:q
E37: No write since last change (add ! to override)
@!&^#!&!!:q
E477: No ! allowed
Reboots Server
ESC
Ctrl-C
ESC
Ctrl-Q
ESC
Ctrl-Z
* dangit, suspended *
fg
ESC
:q
E37: No write since last change (add ! to override)
!
E37: No write since last change (add ! to override)
!:q
E37: No write since last change (add ! to override)
@!&^#!&!!:q
E477: No ! allowed
Reboots Server
Teach a man to fish:
Ctrl-Z
kill -9 %1Quick tip, this would make a great gift for people. Would be nice to have a "Send this as a gift to someone" option.
Hey, this looks interesting, but I am getting an error trying to checkout.
VM465:1 POST https://api-vim-so-prod.onrender.com/api/v1/billing/create-c... net::ERR_CERT_INVALID
VM465:1 POST https://api-vim-so-prod.onrender.com/api/v1/billing/create-c... net::ERR_CERT_INVALID
Awesome idea, gamifying learning vim seems the way to go.
Minor detail: I would recommend you set up the keyboard focus on the game as soon as the page loads. Saw a comment mentioning that the HJKL keys were not working and the same happened to me...right until I clicked on the command-line box in order to have my keyboard focus it.
Minor detail: I would recommend you set up the keyboard focus on the game as soon as the page loads. Saw a comment mentioning that the HJKL keys were not working and the same happened to me...right until I clicked on the command-line box in order to have my keyboard focus it.
My (issue?) with vim is that I've been using it so long, all day every day, that I can't remember any of the commands - I only have muscle memory.
If someone asks me how to do something, I have no idea, I have to physically pretend like I'm doing it on a keyboard to figure out the command.
If someone asks me how to do something, I have no idea, I have to physically pretend like I'm doing it on a keyboard to figure out the command.
If you're looking to practice the h,j,k,l keys in a fun way, simply play Nethack or other roguelikes that support these movement keys. In 2-3 hours you'll be flying around the map and you won't even know how you're doing it.
Thanks for posting this. I have been using vi(m) for at least 15 years and finally got the hang of yy only recently. I used to work at a Solaris shop a long time ago and had to learn vi to get anywhere. I wish I had this then!
Just last week we took a detour from our normal project that I am doing with my daughter and started teaching her vim. We used vimtutor and found it quite useful. I will definitely give this a fair trial.
There is no way I'd spend money on this. It looks like every tutorial on vim, but with a stopwatch. It would be more compelling if a TOC or summary of lessons were provided.
Enormous vim fan here. I’ve been toying with the idea of 1:1 “tutoring” of beginner vim and other Unix tools. If anyone might be interested in a free 1st lesson, send a DM!
I’ve started dabbling in Vim and Unix tools. Would love to try out a first lesson, what’s the best way to reach you? No dm feature on HN unfortunately
I like how this uses repeated actions to help learn.
A free resource I really like is simply running `vimtutor`. It gives you a text file with exercises and you edit that text file directly.
A free resource I really like is simply running `vimtutor`. It gives you a text file with exercises and you edit that text file directly.
Do macros -> delete % break it? I tried to race the first exercise by setting up a macro to speedrun the first example and i got something where multiple % showed up
I guess it does! Haven’t seen anyone do this before. I’ll look into fixing this though!
I have Vimari (Vim keybindings for Safari) installed and so pressing Esc and trying to navigate inside that window just scroll my actual browser window :( The irony
https://vim-adventures.com/ -- this one is perfect for kids (and free iirc)
Hate to be a negative Nancy, but on a bog standard Chrome on a bog standard Windows 10, in the first exercise the HJKL keys do nothing. The arrow keys do work...
noremap <Up> <Nop>
noremap <Down> <Nop>
noremap <Left> <Nop>
noremap <Right> <Nop>
Oh strange, I haven’t had anyone report this bug yet. I’ll look into it. Thank you for letting me know!
Is there an easy way to kill another vim instance if you open a file for the second time in another window, preserving the edit buffer?
I've been considering Vim for a while now.. If I do choose to pick it up this will definitely be my first choice! Looks great :)
Wow thanks! Learning vim is fun :) I’m glad to see so many people interested in it
Make it multi player via websockets and a server
I'm tempted to buy it, but I don't know what I'm getting. What will this teach me? Do I already know it?
nice site
could do with taking out your console.logs
```export default function KeyChar(props: any) { console.log(props); return ( <span className="text-gray-800 bg-gray-100 text-xl leading-5 py-0.5 px-3 border shadow-md border-gray-300 rounded-md text-center"> {`${props.keyChar}`} </span> ); } ```
could do with taking out your console.logs
```export default function KeyChar(props: any) { console.log(props); return ( <span className="text-gray-800 bg-gray-100 text-xl leading-5 py-0.5 px-3 border shadow-md border-gray-300 rounded-md text-center"> {`${props.keyChar}`} </span> ); } ```
I don't want to spend $15. Does it just tell you to run vimtutor? It should just tell you to run vimtutor.
Im immediately in a situation by where my cursor will not move but rather types letters.
Can't remap keys, so colemak/dvorak users are hooped.
Or just use vim adventures, vim tutor for free...
Need something like this for Emacs/org-mode
It seems cool, though I agree that not knowing
Is there a list of all the types of lessons?
Can I get a list of the areas you cover?
There are 10 exercises and 1 video that shows how I use vim in my normal development workflow.
The lessons are:
- Basic Navigation
- Command Basics
- Insertion
- Append
- Deletion
- Word Level Navigation
- Select Mode
- Advanced Word Level Navigation
- Yanking/Putting
- Matching within tags {} () "
The lessons are:
- Basic Navigation
- Command Basics
- Insertion
- Append
- Deletion
- Word Level Navigation
- Select Mode
- Advanced Word Level Navigation
- Yanking/Putting
- Matching within tags {} () "
[deleted]
/%<cr>qqnxq@q@@@@...
Pro tip to exit vim: Shift+Z+Z
Any similar course for tmux ?
sudo apt -y autoremove nano
Sorry plebians
Sorry plebians
Nooooooooooooooo!
I know I felt a constant social pressure to learn vim or emacs over the years in order to fit in with those religions.
I gave in to that social pressure early on. But even 30 years ago in the early 90s when I started learning vim (and Linux), vim and emacs were very dated programs.
Over the course of thirty years I have managed to finally learn how to set up syntax highlighting, terminal colors, and spaces vs tabs and do a basic cut and paste operation. But the cut and paste never works in a sensible way for me and I always end up having to fix something after pasting. So I am probably still doing that wrong after thirty years. Lol.
I suggest using sshfs or Docker and then you can just use a graphical client. Even gedit is a huge advantage over vim in my opinion (especially if you also have fish in another window). I like how lightweight and simple it is and I think it's really underrated. But also VSCode, Sublime, maybe Atom. Maybe WebStorm.
There is nothing wrong with using nano in the terminal. It's more modern than vim and probably going to be much more productive. I recommend if you are embarrassed about using nano and someone asks, think of it as if someone asked you if you are Christian or Jewish. You can just say you are agnostic about editors, and use a modern tool.
Also take a look at TextAdept in the terminal. It is customizable with Lua.
I really like Jupyter Notebooks for lots of things. It's a great implementation of literate programming, especially if you take advantage of the markdown to explain things thoroughly. Of course a lot of teams are not going to like that but there are projects where you can.
Back in the early 90s there was this thing called Borland Turbo Pascal which had things like mouse usage, automatic syntax highlighting, F1 for instant contextual help, an integrated debugger. Those were the days. Lol. You can configure vim to do all of those things in kind of a janky way, but it's so convoluted, I feel like they should award a PhD if you achieve that. And they don't. So it's not worth it.
People love to glorify the "power" of vim commands. But it's not that way because the original author knew some secret to power editing. It's that way by default, because when it was created, commands and modes were the paradigm by default because of historical terminal limitations. A few people were still using Teletype at that time. Real-time editing was not even a thing.
The terminal they initially developed vi on did not have separate cursor keys. That's why it doesn't use cursor keys, not because it's some deliberate choice they made to save time and be more "advanced".
http://xahlee.info/kbd/keyboard_hardware_and_key_choices.htm...
I just feel like not only are people repeating the mistakes of their fathers, but even their grandparents at this point. It's not 1978 anymore. It's 2021.
I gave in to that social pressure early on. But even 30 years ago in the early 90s when I started learning vim (and Linux), vim and emacs were very dated programs.
Over the course of thirty years I have managed to finally learn how to set up syntax highlighting, terminal colors, and spaces vs tabs and do a basic cut and paste operation. But the cut and paste never works in a sensible way for me and I always end up having to fix something after pasting. So I am probably still doing that wrong after thirty years. Lol.
I suggest using sshfs or Docker and then you can just use a graphical client. Even gedit is a huge advantage over vim in my opinion (especially if you also have fish in another window). I like how lightweight and simple it is and I think it's really underrated. But also VSCode, Sublime, maybe Atom. Maybe WebStorm.
There is nothing wrong with using nano in the terminal. It's more modern than vim and probably going to be much more productive. I recommend if you are embarrassed about using nano and someone asks, think of it as if someone asked you if you are Christian or Jewish. You can just say you are agnostic about editors, and use a modern tool.
Also take a look at TextAdept in the terminal. It is customizable with Lua.
I really like Jupyter Notebooks for lots of things. It's a great implementation of literate programming, especially if you take advantage of the markdown to explain things thoroughly. Of course a lot of teams are not going to like that but there are projects where you can.
Back in the early 90s there was this thing called Borland Turbo Pascal which had things like mouse usage, automatic syntax highlighting, F1 for instant contextual help, an integrated debugger. Those were the days. Lol. You can configure vim to do all of those things in kind of a janky way, but it's so convoluted, I feel like they should award a PhD if you achieve that. And they don't. So it's not worth it.
People love to glorify the "power" of vim commands. But it's not that way because the original author knew some secret to power editing. It's that way by default, because when it was created, commands and modes were the paradigm by default because of historical terminal limitations. A few people were still using Teletype at that time. Real-time editing was not even a thing.
The terminal they initially developed vi on did not have separate cursor keys. That's why it doesn't use cursor keys, not because it's some deliberate choice they made to save time and be more "advanced".
http://xahlee.info/kbd/keyboard_hardware_and_key_choices.htm...
I just feel like not only are people repeating the mistakes of their fathers, but even their grandparents at this point. It's not 1978 anymore. It's 2021.
That's fine!!!
I don't think vim (esp. neovim) is janky at all, but part of it is how your brain works. If you want to use nano or vscode or whatever, there shouldn't be any social pressure.
I think it comes down to how people like to use their tools and how they like to shape their working environment. I've gotten my vim/linux machines into a place where editing code is comfortable, and I'd love to share it with people, but I understand that they may not want to do it. And that's fine!
Use what works for you to get your work done!
I think it comes down to how people like to use their tools and how they like to shape their working environment. I've gotten my vim/linux machines into a place where editing code is comfortable, and I'd love to share it with people, but I understand that they may not want to do it. And that's fine!
Use what works for you to get your work done!
Also I actually use vim a lot more than VSCode which I have not used much.
But I also think I wasted a lot of time over the years figuring out how to use it and how to set it up. I am trying to save some people a lot of time. I actually think I am still wasting time with it and its because of social pressure to use an outdated program. Its like some kind of psychological thing that has me compelled to be irrational to fit in.
But I also think I wasted a lot of time over the years figuring out how to use it and how to set it up. I am trying to save some people a lot of time. I actually think I am still wasting time with it and its because of social pressure to use an outdated program. Its like some kind of psychological thing that has me compelled to be irrational to fit in.
It's not something about "how my brain works". That's a sneaky way of accusing me of being too dumb to use those editors. But the user interfaces from 35-40 years ago are bad. Objectively. Unless you are using them on the terminals from the 70s or 80s.
I am absolutely not calling you dumb! Emacs doesn't work for my brain at all, but Vim does. There are lots of tools that are made for different kinds of people and they all help us towards getting to a certain result.
I don't think it's fair to say that the user interfaces are bad, though. The defaults may be bare bones, but the point is that they are programmable environments that allow you to tailor them to your needs if you want to.
That's it.
I don't think it's fair to say that the user interfaces are bad, though. The defaults may be bare bones, but the point is that they are programmable environments that allow you to tailor them to your needs if you want to.
That's it.
Ok, I'm sorry but I believe you are incorrect. People do not have different brains that way. Just like they don't have different 'learning styles'. That sort of thing is a discredited myth.
I also think that it is objectively true and not only fair but also important for people to start to point out how bad these interfaces are. At some point traditions start to become a drag on society.
One of the core principles of user interface design is useful defaults. And there are many better modern editors with equal amounts of programmability as well as useable and useful defaults.
I also think that it is objectively true and not only fair but also important for people to start to point out how bad these interfaces are. At some point traditions start to become a drag on society.
One of the core principles of user interface design is useful defaults. And there are many better modern editors with equal amounts of programmability as well as useable and useful defaults.
I don't understand that line of reasoning, and it seems like you're being obstinate for the sake of being obstinate. I hope you understand that even though you might feel one way, other people may think another and there's no orthodoxy.
Have a good day.
Have a good day.
Of course people have different opinions.
That's not what you said though. You said brains work differently.
That's not what you said though. You said brains work differently.
Brains do work differently - if they didn't, everyone would learn at exactly the same pace if given exactly the same input, and people would all have the same preferences. There's a reason why the term "neurotypical" exists.
You don't like what I like, and that's fine, but I can tell you that I like the design of older computer systems more than I like the design of modern computer systems. There's a reason why I use the tools I do and why I can write really good software really fast with them.
You can argue that they're dated, and that's fine, but you're arguing that if we like them that we're wrong, and that's not okay.
I'm realize I'm shouting at the wind, though.
You don't like what I like, and that's fine, but I can tell you that I like the design of older computer systems more than I like the design of modern computer systems. There's a reason why I use the tools I do and why I can write really good software really fast with them.
You can argue that they're dated, and that's fine, but you're arguing that if we like them that we're wrong, and that's not okay.
I'm realize I'm shouting at the wind, though.
You are interpreting my statement "brains don't work differently" here in a disengenuous way which is both more narrow and different from the exact context of the discussion.
And suggesting that people who don't appreciate vim are slow learners. Which is not okay.
But I think we can both agree on one thing. Its not productive to continue the discussion.
And suggesting that people who don't appreciate vim are slow learners. Which is not okay.
But I think we can both agree on one thing. Its not productive to continue the discussion.
I don't think calling the subject matter the OP is trying to teach "a religion" or predicting downvotes on your comment is productive.
The 2nd is definitely against the site guidelines.
To address your other comments, I can share a personal anecdote. When I started programming, I basically just learned the bare minimum VI commands to get around. I didn't see it as "a religion" or a relic from the past, but I saw a fairly steep learning curve that wasn't a high priority for me to tackle at the time.
Years later, I did get into it. It's been good for me in terms of efficiency, but much more importantly, it's been good for my health. At the end of 2017, I had severe RSI and from working an extreme schedule on a startup and a poor ergonomic setup. My wrists were so injured that it hurt to even brush my teeth.
I got an ergonomic keyboard, and made a concerted attempt to use the mouse as little as possible (and balance that little bit between both hands). I made VIM my primary driver, regardless of what other editor I was using. Even on web pages, I attempted to use keyboard navigation where feasible, especially in email and similar apps.
As a result, I've no healed to where I do full-time weeks at the keyboard again and I will probably always be grateful to VIM (and Kinesis!)
The 2nd is definitely against the site guidelines.
To address your other comments, I can share a personal anecdote. When I started programming, I basically just learned the bare minimum VI commands to get around. I didn't see it as "a religion" or a relic from the past, but I saw a fairly steep learning curve that wasn't a high priority for me to tackle at the time.
Years later, I did get into it. It's been good for me in terms of efficiency, but much more importantly, it's been good for my health. At the end of 2017, I had severe RSI and from working an extreme schedule on a startup and a poor ergonomic setup. My wrists were so injured that it hurt to even brush my teeth.
I got an ergonomic keyboard, and made a concerted attempt to use the mouse as little as possible (and balance that little bit between both hands). I made VIM my primary driver, regardless of what other editor I was using. Even on web pages, I attempted to use keyboard navigation where feasible, especially in email and similar apps.
As a result, I've no healed to where I do full-time weeks at the keyboard again and I will probably always be grateful to VIM (and Kinesis!)
I'm not allowed to predict the downvotes? I'm just supposed to "take it like a man"?
It absolutely is like a religion and an enormous amount of time has been wasted with people feeling they need to learn how to use these extremely outdated programs with user interfaces invented 40 years ago.
I am trying to save some people some time. The fact that you are trying to stop me from doing that indicates to me that I have committed heresy. That is why you want to have my comment declared invalid. It contradicts your worldview.
It absolutely is like a religion and an enormous amount of time has been wasted with people feeling they need to learn how to use these extremely outdated programs with user interfaces invented 40 years ago.
I am trying to save some people some time. The fact that you are trying to stop me from doing that indicates to me that I have committed heresy. That is why you want to have my comment declared invalid. It contradicts your worldview.
> I'm not allowed to predict the downvotes? I'm just supposed to "take it like a man"?
In the guidelines (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html):
> Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.
In the guidelines (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html):
> Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.
Okay, if someone shares the same specific type of disability due to repetitive stress injury, then yes, that is a good use case for vim.
Lots of people use vim just to appear hardcore and not because it confers serious editing advantage.
Vim itself is a really really bad editor. It's so obvious that it was written by a programmer with commands like 5dd, 6gg etc. I find it so ridiculous that a computer program can be that much loved and yet it doesn't even provide line numbers out of the box nor indentation. Does a person really need to spend half an hour googling just to tell vim to indent Java code as they type.
Vim itself is a really really bad editor. It's so obvious that it was written by a programmer with commands like 5dd, 6gg etc. I find it so ridiculous that a computer program can be that much loved and yet it doesn't even provide line numbers out of the box nor indentation. Does a person really need to spend half an hour googling just to tell vim to indent Java code as they type.
I think it does offer editing advantages, though they don’t matter that much unless you work in a sweat shop. For me it’s just fun going like “look mum, no mouse“
The typical conversion rate is ~1/100, so you'll need 10000 visitors to earn 1500$ this month (optimistically). The next month you'll need another 10000 to earn the same amount. Taking into account the amount of work put into this project, what's your marketing strategy besides Show HN posts?
I worked on this for 3 days. I've been getting around 1k on average visitors from direct traffic and twitter since I launched it into access around 10 days ago.
I'm going to work on SEO next for it :)
I'm going to work on SEO next for it :)
He also extracted the tech to build his next product, slip.so which should generate some nice revenue for him as well.