My Son, the Organ Donor(kimmoldofsky.medium.com)
kimmoldofsky.medium.com
My Son, the Organ Donor
https://kimmoldofsky.medium.com/my-son-the-organ-donor-5593edbbc526
88 comments
Organ donor should be opt out, not opt in.
IIRC I heard they were doing this in the UK, at least I heard something about it on the radio.
I think it's the right default, most people won't mind donating and those who do are generally more motivated to fill out the opt out docs.
I think it's the right default, most people won't mind donating and those who do are generally more motivated to fill out the opt out docs.
I disagree. Instead it should be mandatory to choose. Make it a condition for getting a driver's license or even your ID.
> mandatory to choose
That's a contradiction. If it's mandatory, it's not a choice.
What makes you feel you have the right to tell others they should be forced to donate their organs?
That's a contradiction. If it's mandatory, it's not a choice.
What makes you feel you have the right to tell others they should be forced to donate their organs?
I believe GP was suggesting that making a decision should be mandatory at some point. While I personally prefer the default here be to opt in as a donor, GP suggested merely that a decision as to yes or no should be required.
Where I live, one must state organ donor preference when obtaining a driver's license. I believe the default answer is no if you choose not to choose.
Where I live, one must state organ donor preference when obtaining a driver's license. I believe the default answer is no if you choose not to choose.
Not mandatory to donate. Mandatory to make an explicit choice of whether to donate or not (neither opt-out nor opt-in).
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People who are not organ donors should receive organs with lower priority than those who are. That would only be fair - and it would get people to sign up.
Absolutely agreed! Make it whenever people get their driver's license, they must make an opt out form.
Nope, that would be a disaster. While the intent here is good it will lead to the very unfortunate side effects like incentivizing organ trade where a person would be killed under some pretext ( or even without a pretext) just to harvest his organs. I believe this already happens in some parts of the world.
Yeah you dont know how the organ donor system works.
I opted out. For the sole reason that I don't think this planet lacks humans enough to justify prolonging some lifes more than their own bodies allowed them to.
Also this article was too mellow for my taste.
Also this article was too mellow for my taste.
> I grew those organs in my body, for my son. And now they’re working inside the bodies of total strangers, supporting the lives of people I will probably never meet. Or possibly never hear from.
Damn.
Damn.
That's a moving article. Hard to imagine facing this for my own kid.
>I also learned that the care team doesn’t just wheel the donor away. They send them off with an Honor Walk. The doctors and nurses who worked to keep my son’s organs functioning at optimal levels joined local family, friends, and colleagues, packed shoulder-to-shoulder (pre-COVID) to line the short corridor from the ICU to the surgical suite for the ceremonial transport of my son’s body.
>I also learned that the care team doesn’t just wheel the donor away. They send them off with an Honor Walk. The doctors and nurses who worked to keep my son’s organs functioning at optimal levels joined local family, friends, and colleagues, packed shoulder-to-shoulder (pre-COVID) to line the short corridor from the ICU to the surgical suite for the ceremonial transport of my son’s body.
Anybody browsing the comments to get the gist of the article should click through to see this photo.
I was going to just skip over this by reading the comments. Thank you for suggesting I go look. Extremely moving.
I surprised myself by spontaneously shedding a tear as I read that sentence.
full article: https://outline.com/t2H493
renewiltord(14)
I checked that box on my recent DL renewal (against my family's wish). The moving send off photo in the article confirms I made the right choice.
There is a lot of mysticism around our bodies once we pass on - and when that happens we've lost all the ability to bask in the honor of our act or receive the appreciation - but our bodies are also quite worthless to ourselves at that point and can be of an immense value to others.
Organ donation is a very sensitive subject since it can be viewed as losing the coherence of all that remains of someone, but the benefits to others can be extreme. This particular story involved someone getting a heart transplant and, while it was surely a loss that this individual died, after they died they enabled another person who had a limited lease on life to get a lot more time out of something that would have decayed in the ground or be cremated.
Organ donation is a very sensitive subject since it can be viewed as losing the coherence of all that remains of someone, but the benefits to others can be extreme. This particular story involved someone getting a heart transplant and, while it was surely a loss that this individual died, after they died they enabled another person who had a limited lease on life to get a lot more time out of something that would have decayed in the ground or be cremated.
I'm all for organ donation, but it's something we'll look back on in 60 years and marvel at how complicated and crude it was compared to growing new ones with the patient's own cells. In the mean time it's definitely a silver lining for those left behind.
I figure the worms will eat me anyway, so why not be an organ donor?
I don't find any comfort in visiting the gravesites of relatives, either. Whatever made them what they were isn't there. My father once told me that a dead body is like a house with nobody home. That's how I feel about it, too.
I don't find any comfort in visiting the gravesites of relatives, either. Whatever made them what they were isn't there. My father once told me that a dead body is like a house with nobody home. That's how I feel about it, too.
Your father is right. I would still visit the gravesite to remind myself of death in general. I imagine it helps ground me, prioritize things, etc.
Why would your family object? Among other reasons it's your body, not theirs, but apart from that by what basis would anyone choose to object to helping others in this way?
Genuinely curious.
Genuinely curious.
Death is already a difficult thing to think or talk about for your loved ones let alone harvesting the organs from your body.
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> (against my family's wish)
Where I'm from they're gonna ask my family for confirmation regardless. Fortunately for me they're okay with it.
Where I'm from they're gonna ask my family for confirmation regardless. Fortunately for me they're okay with it.
They will still honor it. But it's understandably hard for them to even think about at it right now.
"and managing hospital bills that would soon follow. The donor network takes over medical costs once a patient officially enters the program, but there was still the matter of the pricey care that preceded it."
It never occurred to me that the American healthcare system is so ruthless that even if someone dies your family has to pay for your care. How absolutely cruel and awful.
It never occurred to me that the American healthcare system is so ruthless that even if someone dies your family has to pay for your care. How absolutely cruel and awful.
DNRs are very common in America for a reason separate from the rest of the world - elsewhere they tend to be mostly a philosophical choice to minimize your own personal pain and cost on society. In America they primarily exist to shield family members from cost - it isn't uncommon for a funeral to be accompanied by a lot of additional stress because your father was kept alive for five additional days at a cost of 50k/day and suddenly the surviving family is trying to sort out grief, finding a quarter of a million dollars (or potentially sending the entire estate into bankruptcy) and the additional tens of thousands of dollars funerals cost.
Death in America is pretty darn expensive.
Edit: I'd clarify something - in the US (like almost everywhere) debt cannot be inherited alone. An estate can be declared bankrupt when someone dies and then debtors are limited to just taking chunks out of the estate to the best of their ability - but if shared property is held by the deceased then it can cause serious harm to inheritors. My favorite example is a multi-generational house which can force inheritors into debt to keep the roof over their head.
Death in America is pretty darn expensive.
Edit: I'd clarify something - in the US (like almost everywhere) debt cannot be inherited alone. An estate can be declared bankrupt when someone dies and then debtors are limited to just taking chunks out of the estate to the best of their ability - but if shared property is held by the deceased then it can cause serious harm to inheritors. My favorite example is a multi-generational house which can force inheritors into debt to keep the roof over their head.
>> in the US (like almost everywhere) debt cannot be inherited alone
In Poland(where I'm from) it can. When my father died I basically had to make a choice within a few weeks of his death - either refuse the inheritance entirely, or accept it with all his known and unknown debts. The second options meaning that if someone comes to me in 10 years time saying "hey I have this paper signed by your dad 20 years ago saying he owes me a million dollars" well, I now legally owe this person a million dollars. There is no concept of an estate of the deceased that gets settled first before any inheritance is given out(if anything remains). No, you have to make a choice whether you accept everything(including debts) or literally nothing at all. And you have to make the choice quickly because you cannot manage anything owned or related to the deceased(their bank accounts, mortgages etc) until you make the decision.
In Poland(where I'm from) it can. When my father died I basically had to make a choice within a few weeks of his death - either refuse the inheritance entirely, or accept it with all his known and unknown debts. The second options meaning that if someone comes to me in 10 years time saying "hey I have this paper signed by your dad 20 years ago saying he owes me a million dollars" well, I now legally owe this person a million dollars. There is no concept of an estate of the deceased that gets settled first before any inheritance is given out(if anything remains). No, you have to make a choice whether you accept everything(including debts) or literally nothing at all. And you have to make the choice quickly because you cannot manage anything owned or related to the deceased(their bank accounts, mortgages etc) until you make the decision.
Through inflicting financial pain, the US healthcare system is supposed to motivate consumers to seek out higher value, leading to competition and efficiency. But since medical services are a classic example of "market failure", all that's left is unavoidable pain.
The country I live in has three healthcare systems: Public (Free), Social security (Payroll funded) and Private (Paid by yourself or your optional private insurance).
The private one has the shortest waiting times and doctors are assigned less patients.
Some things that have happened to me in the private system and I didnt like were:
- Having to pay my bill about two hours after waking up from anesthesia. Literally signing the credit card receipts while on my hospital bed.
- Another time, having to sign an IOU before being admitted, on the emergency room bed.
- One of my doctors throwing away all my medical records, because "they were old and took too much space".
The private one has the shortest waiting times and doctors are assigned less patients.
Some things that have happened to me in the private system and I didnt like were:
- Having to pay my bill about two hours after waking up from anesthesia. Literally signing the credit card receipts while on my hospital bed.
- Another time, having to sign an IOU before being admitted, on the emergency room bed.
- One of my doctors throwing away all my medical records, because "they were old and took too much space".
Yeah, it's a complete mess too. It really depends on the situation. For adults, with their own coverage, most medical debts are covered by the deceased's estate until it is insolvent. Family members are not required to pay the debt (unless a spouse in a community property state) though the hospital/insurance companies will absolutely try to get you to pay.
However, some states have laws that require adult children to pay the debts of their parents should they end up in a nursing home or similar.
However, some states have laws that require adult children to pay the debts of their parents should they end up in a nursing home or similar.
I am kinda surprised at that part. Why would the family be responsible for his costs beyond what insurance would cover? It is not their debt.
If you’re over 18, the bill belongs to the adult, even if they are on their parents insurance.
That is my thought. They can get what insurance will pay for but the dead person is the one who legally owes them.
I'm assuming she's referring to managing the bills which will need to be paid out of the son's estate.
> Why would the family be responsible for his costs
I think for the same reason that your family gets control of your assets. Neither transfer is deserved, but if you allow one then you have to also allow the other.
I think for the same reason that your family gets control of your assets. Neither transfer is deserved, but if you allow one then you have to also allow the other.
No. Debt is never transferred from one family member to another unless agreed to contractually.
If no will is drawn up, the estate will be transferred to the next-of-kin after all debts are settled.
If no will is drawn up, the estate will be transferred to the next-of-kin after all debts are settled.
Sorta - this issue is a bit more complex when it comes to shared property. If you live in a multi-generational home technically owned by your grandfather and he passes away then the house may be seized during any debt resolution or bankruptcy filing.
Debts don't get passed on but they can eliminate the value of estates being transferred.
I think it's perfectly legitimate to question whether any assets or debts should be transferred on death but right now society is such that some people will be depending on that inheritance since they're inheriting the roof that they've been living under all their life.
Debts don't get passed on but they can eliminate the value of estates being transferred.
I think it's perfectly legitimate to question whether any assets or debts should be transferred on death but right now society is such that some people will be depending on that inheritance since they're inheriting the roof that they've been living under all their life.
Depends on the locale. As I understand it, in Korean law, both assets and debts are transferred to next of kin when one dies. Relatives of debtors have to go through a legal procedure to make sure that they don't become next-in-line for any debts or assets when the debtor dies.
This may come as a surprise to you, as it did me... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_responsibility_laws
Oh, you sweet, innocent child...
In general, in America, parents are not responsible for adult children's medical bills, even when on shared insurance. Managing != paying for out of her own pocket.
Wait until you hear about our funerary system.
I signed up to become a donor a few months ago!
I don't know if my organs will be used when I die, but I sure hope so. There's some sort of zen feeling knowing that my death may result in someone's life being saved or made easier. The decision was quite easy to make. That initial talk with my family was a bit of an awkward subject to bring up, but that's about the only unpleasant side to it.
I don't know if my organs will be used when I die, but I sure hope so. There's some sort of zen feeling knowing that my death may result in someone's life being saved or made easier. The decision was quite easy to make. That initial talk with my family was a bit of an awkward subject to bring up, but that's about the only unpleasant side to it.
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Remarks from his memorial service by his mother:
https://themakermom.com/2020/02/isaac-moldofsky-mom-eulogy.h...
https://themakermom.com/2020/02/isaac-moldofsky-mom-eulogy.h...
I wasn't expecting the emotional response I just got from that. Thank you for your story, sorry for your loss.
My father was the recipient of a lung transplant. It saved his life and enabled him to meet all of his grandchildren. We are forever grateful to the donor that allowed Dad to live.
My father was the recipient of a lung transplant. It saved his life and enabled him to meet all of his grandchildren. We are forever grateful to the donor that allowed Dad to live.
The part about the honor walk is really great. My father was killed in a terrorist attack 18 years ago and we were able to donate his organs (he was shot in the head so was brain dead but his body was mostly fine). It was in Israel and there wasn't anything ceremonious about it at the time. I signed the consent form, we were given some time to say goodbye, and that was it, we just went home and left him. It was around noon, and IIRC by evening his liver, lung and kidneys were already being transplanted.
I have to say that it was comforting to know he saved lives. We got to meet two of the families of the people he saved. One was a Palestinian family, who came to visit us and were really wonderful given the circumstances. The other one we met was a 12 year old boy who got a kidney, and as far as I know is still alive and kicking with part of my dad in him. That's incredible.
None of this makes up for how awful losing my dad was, but knowing it also did some good in this world is a tiny comfort.
I have to say that it was comforting to know he saved lives. We got to meet two of the families of the people he saved. One was a Palestinian family, who came to visit us and were really wonderful given the circumstances. The other one we met was a 12 year old boy who got a kidney, and as far as I know is still alive and kicking with part of my dad in him. That's incredible.
None of this makes up for how awful losing my dad was, but knowing it also did some good in this world is a tiny comfort.
Proud to be a registered organ donor after reading this. If you want to do something right now, you can donate blood every 8 weeks. I just got a text message notification that my most recent donation (last Thursday) was just sent to a hospital, between reading the article and making this comment.
I love articles like this. I wish there was an hn for articles. Not tech. Not some random lisp interpreter, but things like "The hunt for the death valley germans", the story about the nuclear power device in the mountains in nepal, this post.
Anyone know any good resources?
Anyone know any good resources?
I'm so sorry for your loss. Thank you so much for sharing. Love seeing stuff like this on HN. You can also be a living donor and donate part of your liver, lung, etc.
https://instagram.com/kevinsjourneytolivertransplant, https://www.facebook.com/kmprue/
https://www.ynhh.org/services/transplantation/become-an-orga...
https://instagram.com/kevinsjourneytolivertransplant, https://www.facebook.com/kmprue/
https://www.ynhh.org/services/transplantation/become-an-orga...
This is a good reminder to me to double-check my own organ donor status. And also to review the information I asked for a received regarding what is involved in leaving my body to science. (In a morbid kind of way, I'm hoping my remains end up at the forensic taphonomy research facility[1] in NSW.)
[1] https://www.uts.edu.au/about/faculty-science/after-facility/...
[1] https://www.uts.edu.au/about/faculty-science/after-facility/...
My daughter received a donor’s heart at 6 months old, after hers had been shredded beyond repair by a virus. I’ve tried to write a thank you note to the donor family several times, but each time I’ve thrown it away. The words feel so hollow and small compared to the gift we were given.
It feels selfish to not write just because I can’t get out of my own way emotionally — but what can you possibly say?
It feels selfish to not write just because I can’t get out of my own way emotionally — but what can you possibly say?
> but what can you possibly say?
Just say, "Thank you." It doesn't need to be long and complex: "I'm sorry for your loss; but, I id like you know that your son's/daughter's heart has given our daughter a second chance. Thank you."
Don't over think it. You'll never get it "perfect."
Just say, "Thank you." It doesn't need to be long and complex: "I'm sorry for your loss; but, I id like you know that your son's/daughter's heart has given our daughter a second chance. Thank you."
Don't over think it. You'll never get it "perfect."