Getting Past Procrastination(spectrum.ieee.org)
spectrum.ieee.org
Getting Past Procrastination
https://spectrum.ieee.org/getting-past-procastination
184 comments
That's Hemingway’s trick: “You write until you come to a place where you still have your juice and know what will happen next and you stop and try to live through until the next day when you hit it again.”
https://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/4825/the-art-of-fi...
https://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/4825/the-art-of-fi...
there are so many different names for this. and time blocking. but it really works. small reminder. it works even when, like me, someone has serious case of ADHD. but its slightly different and there are extremes on both end. where it does not work or it works to well. but it always work. what I am trying to say if you feel its not efficient you still have to feel it out until you find how it works for you in whatever form it works.
Yeah, on the other side went I really pushed to finish a PR in today I am completely lost next morning.
Yep.
When there are no clear tasks, I sometime leave a syntax error at the place work should continue tomorrow. This is quite effective. It can make the answer to the "Where was I?" question immediate instead of taking a few seconds and this is one fewer barrier.
When there are no clear tasks, I sometime leave a syntax error at the place work should continue tomorrow. This is quite effective. It can make the answer to the "Where was I?" question immediate instead of taking a few seconds and this is one fewer barrier.
Yes. It's funny how this kind of trick can instantly snap the entire working context back into your mind. Essentially leaving you free to forget about the context during your free time and overnight. Truly a useful "hack".
It's also useful to jot down a quick list of (say) three items that are at the top of your mind when you leave work for the day, and they too will help with a context restore.
It's also useful to jot down a quick list of (say) three items that are at the top of your mind when you leave work for the day, and they too will help with a context restore.
Also just chuck Todo comments in the code
The magic of Git means you can immediately find them in the working index and get back on to it. Just remember to remove them before the commit.
The magic of Git means you can immediately find them in the working index and get back on to it. Just remember to remove them before the commit.
> The magic of Git means you can immediately find them in the working index
How does git help you find certain texts in files? `grep` should do the trick just fine, unless I misunderstand what "chuck Todo comments in the code" mean, the code lives on your disk no?
How does git help you find certain texts in files? `grep` should do the trick just fine, unless I misunderstand what "chuck Todo comments in the code" mean, the code lives on your disk no?
To get your bearings regarding where you got to with your uncommitted work, you might do something like:
To search for all mentions of 'TODO' in the repo, ignoring untracked files:
git status && git diff HEAD
To search for all mentions of 'TODO' in the repo, ignoring untracked files:
git grep TODO
git grep -i TODOI have a very involved `gq` alias that helps me find and finish pending work. It works either in the current repository or a folder containing multiple repositories.
Basically, my assumption is that `gq` should return empty, which means I have a clean slate, and can start taking on new work. Otherwise, there is ongoing work that needs attention.
It just lists:
It's basically inbox-zero for git.
But it only works if you like working with a clean worktree.
Basically, my assumption is that `gq` should return empty, which means I have a clean slate, and can start taking on new work. Otherwise, there is ongoing work that needs attention.
It just lists:
* modified/untracked files
* stashed changes
* local-only branches (not tracking a remote branch)
* branches out-of-sync with their upstream (either ahead or behind)
* branches that aren't the main branch (even if tracking and in-sync with a remote upstream)
It's basically inbox-zero for git.
But it only works if you like working with a clean worktree.
I know how to use git :P The question is why use git for something when the TODOs still sits in your files on disk. You're not doing anything with those commands that `grep` by itself cannot do...
Grep works too. I just spend a lot of time in git or tools that wrap it. It's an unconscious habit to check the status and diffs when I open my editor.
Yeah I mean I use the git cli exclusively too, and use it switch contexts, but I'm not sure why'd I use it to find stuff that is already on disk. But, you do you, was just trying to understand if there was any benefits I didn't knew about :)
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They'll show up in the diff.
Grep will find them too, but any in the diff you'll know for sure were added by you.
Grep will find them too, but any in the diff you'll know for sure were added by you.
Parent mentioned specifically finding them from the index, so they've been added but not committed, so they're not even remote nor have an author associated with it, yet.
And why it matters to get them from the diff if they're on disk already? Literally one command to find all of them, rather than going through git?
And why it matters to get them from the diff if they're on disk already? Literally one command to find all of them, rather than going through git?
One advantage of git is it shows you any uncommitted changes. Great way to get context the next day of where you were up to anyway even if you didn't use TODO to make it searchable.
If you do this often enough you can create a simple commit hook that searches for these markers and will fail to commit if it finds them.
"focus division multiplexing"
I've done that too. Especially if I have to stop working, but I'm in the middle of something. There are no compilation errors or tests failing but the feature isn't completed.
Introducing a syntax error is like a saved game, portal back in time. I'll come back to it tomorrow and it'll take me max one minute to reload the context into my brain.
Introducing a syntax error is like a saved game, portal back in time. I'll come back to it tomorrow and it'll take me max one minute to reload the context into my brain.
I do this also. My tweak is to make the syntax error just a sentence of what tiny step needs to be done next. Then the next day I turn that sentence into a comment, do what needs to be done next and then delete the comment. It me the dual endorphin hit of completing a task and deleting code.
Another similar thing is to leave an easy sentence half-finished so when you come back to it, there's an obvious first thing to do and hop back in.
I've always used "$$". It's probably a subliminal thing.
I like this. Good trick.
#pragma warning
I’ve heard this called “park facing downhill”
I remember being on a session with the pragmatic programmers (ie the people from the book) and they recommended making a compile error on purpose as the last thing one did before leaving work. The next day you compiled the code and get an error, fix this and they continue working. You are already doing work. This sets your mind on the right track from they day before. I gave used this a bit and it works pretty well.
It most definitely does work the other way around. The problem of course is that you can’t just wait for motivation to appear. But you can start an action.
I’m just stating the obvious, but I find it odd that the author states the opposite isn’t true.
I’m just stating the obvious, but I find it odd that the author states the opposite isn’t true.
While directing actors on the film set one of the questions to ponder is whether you first need to put people into an emotional reality so they can produce gestures matching that reality or whether you tell them how to move and then they find their emotional reality within the movements.
In my experience both works and some actors prefer one and some the other. But you can try it yourself, think of a sad thing, slumb together make a sad gesture and listen (emotionally) what happens on the inside.
In my experience both works and some actors prefer one and some the other. But you can try it yourself, think of a sad thing, slumb together make a sad gesture and listen (emotionally) what happens on the inside.
Same, it's so much easier to quit just when you hit your limit and keep a 2 min window to bookmark your solution search and leave some potential follow ups. Makes restarting your job a lot easier.
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It doesn't matter what I need to do, I start every day by building my code. It gets me typing commands in the terminal and more often than not there's a build error or warning I need to address
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It's way easier to ride the momentum of "just one quick thing" than to start cold and stare into the void of a blank screen or a big to-do list
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I disagree with the idea that getting past procrastination should (always) be the target.
Mostly because I don't think procrastination is inherently bad. There's a lot of stigma attached to procrastination as it's seen as being "unproductive". But I think procrastination can lead to great insights.
Your brain is telling you that it is not interested in the current task. The question is: Why? Overworked and needs a break? Much more interested in exploring something else? Protecting against the pain of failure?
Investigating the why instead of forcing "overcoming" is quite fruitful in my personal experience.
My guess is "action leads to motivation" might be helpful for solving one of the root causes (likely fear of failure/imposter syndrom) but not all of them.
Mostly because I don't think procrastination is inherently bad. There's a lot of stigma attached to procrastination as it's seen as being "unproductive". But I think procrastination can lead to great insights.
Your brain is telling you that it is not interested in the current task. The question is: Why? Overworked and needs a break? Much more interested in exploring something else? Protecting against the pain of failure?
Investigating the why instead of forcing "overcoming" is quite fruitful in my personal experience.
My guess is "action leads to motivation" might be helpful for solving one of the root causes (likely fear of failure/imposter syndrom) but not all of them.
I procrastinate a lot on hard tasks and usually it's because I don't yet fully understand the risks with each decision that goes into the design.
I think for younger engineers "fail fast" makes a lot of sense; there's not enough of a foundation of experience to tell right from wrong so the only way to learn is to fail.
For more experienced engineers, there's a greater sense of "I have a sense where this can fail; how do I design around that?"
It's not that a more experienced engineer will know exactly how it fails, but that there are modalities of failure that have been encountered so the goal is to design with some flexibility or optionality in mind. And sometimes, this just requires a bit of "gestation" or "percolation" before carving the path.
I think of it like an experienced sculptor sizing up a block of marble before making the first strike with a chisel. It's a kind of procrastination, but really, its a process of visualizing the path.
I think for younger engineers "fail fast" makes a lot of sense; there's not enough of a foundation of experience to tell right from wrong so the only way to learn is to fail.
For more experienced engineers, there's a greater sense of "I have a sense where this can fail; how do I design around that?"
It's not that a more experienced engineer will know exactly how it fails, but that there are modalities of failure that have been encountered so the goal is to design with some flexibility or optionality in mind. And sometimes, this just requires a bit of "gestation" or "percolation" before carving the path.
I think of it like an experienced sculptor sizing up a block of marble before making the first strike with a chisel. It's a kind of procrastination, but really, its a process of visualizing the path.
My expert machinist friend (mold/tool maker) calls it "couch machining". It appears like he isn't working but really in his head he is laying out the entire process from start to finish.
Then when he goes to CAM it up it flows very quickly and the entire part is already mostly planned.
I think often people who don't visualize in their head can't grasp this...it appears as inactivity. The reality is it seems to be a hyperactivity...procrastination comes from having too many tasks and directions with unsolved solutions. (in my case...)
Another way to put it I have heard is "Thinking is working". If it doesn't appear like I am working...I am likely thinking.
I think often people who don't visualize in their head can't grasp this...it appears as inactivity. The reality is it seems to be a hyperactivity...procrastination comes from having too many tasks and directions with unsolved solutions. (in my case...)
Another way to put it I have heard is "Thinking is working". If it doesn't appear like I am working...I am likely thinking.
Wow, that's a really insightful perspective. I often feel a bit ashamed for reading hacker news or some other IT related post on the net when I know I should be doing some development task.
Your description pretty accurately describes the reasons for my procrastination.
Thank you.
This is a solid observation.
I'd say that procrastination is bad when it drives you into some unproductive but addictive behavior, like watching silly tiktok videos, etc. It can be actually good if you do "structured procrastination": can't force myself to do task X, but find solace in solving problem Y really neatly. Another approach is to take a walk, do push-ups, etc, anything that changes your focus away from mental tasks, and preferably brings more oxygen to your brain.
Yet another approach is analytical: "I can't stomach doing that thing! But what thoughts or feelings make me loathe it so much? Where do they come from?" Interesting insights can follow.
I'd say that procrastination is bad when it drives you into some unproductive but addictive behavior, like watching silly tiktok videos, etc. It can be actually good if you do "structured procrastination": can't force myself to do task X, but find solace in solving problem Y really neatly. Another approach is to take a walk, do push-ups, etc, anything that changes your focus away from mental tasks, and preferably brings more oxygen to your brain.
Yet another approach is analytical: "I can't stomach doing that thing! But what thoughts or feelings make me loathe it so much? Where do they come from?" Interesting insights can follow.
> It can be actually good if you do "structured procrastination"
This is actually what John Perry, an emeritus professor of philosophy at Stanford calls it. There is even an essay (and a whole website) called "Structured Procrastination" [1]:
> Structured procrastination means shaping the structure of the tasks one has to do in a way that exploits this fact. The list of tasks one has in mind will be ordered by importance. Tasks that seem most urgent and important are on top. But there are also worthwhile tasks to perform lower down on the list. Doing these tasks becomes a way of not doing the things higher up on the list. With this sort of appropriate task structure, the procrastinator becomes a useful citizen. Indeed, the procrastinator can even acquire, as I have, a reputation for getting a lot done.
[1] https://www.structuredprocrastination.com/
This is actually what John Perry, an emeritus professor of philosophy at Stanford calls it. There is even an essay (and a whole website) called "Structured Procrastination" [1]:
> Structured procrastination means shaping the structure of the tasks one has to do in a way that exploits this fact. The list of tasks one has in mind will be ordered by importance. Tasks that seem most urgent and important are on top. But there are also worthwhile tasks to perform lower down on the list. Doing these tasks becomes a way of not doing the things higher up on the list. With this sort of appropriate task structure, the procrastinator becomes a useful citizen. Indeed, the procrastinator can even acquire, as I have, a reputation for getting a lot done.
[1] https://www.structuredprocrastination.com/
In a certain large part of the population procrastination is a symptom of mental disorder (like for example ADHD etc.), and often a particularly severe one. Dismissing it as a "benefit" is not constructive.
I suspect that you use word procrastination too general, to include all possible cases. If a person is lazy for 5 minutes or for an hour it's not a procrastination. Procrastination is severe case of inability to do something a person wants to do. And before anyone interjects about "duh, work may be unpleasant", it also extends to ALL other spheres of life. Imagine wanting to play a game and literally not being to force yourself to click Start. Or scrolling saved watch list and not picking anything you want to watch. Stuff like that.
Procrastination and related issues is a severe mental disorder and I'm sick and tired of people normalizing it or dismissing as something good or beneficial.
PS: to rephrase all that above - the answer to the question "Why?" is not exclusively something external (like "not interesting") but often an internal one, a chemical disbalance in a person's brain, some brain structures under- or over-developed etc.
I suspect that you use word procrastination too general, to include all possible cases. If a person is lazy for 5 minutes or for an hour it's not a procrastination. Procrastination is severe case of inability to do something a person wants to do. And before anyone interjects about "duh, work may be unpleasant", it also extends to ALL other spheres of life. Imagine wanting to play a game and literally not being to force yourself to click Start. Or scrolling saved watch list and not picking anything you want to watch. Stuff like that.
Procrastination and related issues is a severe mental disorder and I'm sick and tired of people normalizing it or dismissing as something good or beneficial.
PS: to rephrase all that above - the answer to the question "Why?" is not exclusively something external (like "not interesting") but often an internal one, a chemical disbalance in a person's brain, some brain structures under- or over-developed etc.
Yeah, maybe there are different types of procrastination, but there's nothing good about my type. If I hadn't procrastinated through my 20s and 30s, I could be retired and spending my 50s fishing instead of working to make a living. I've got enough of a handle on it now that I keep my bosses happy, but it's still a struggle at times, and there are plenty more things I want to do that I may never get around to. It's a bad thing.
That's nice and all but when your procrastination prevents you from doing anything at all for months it doesn't really feel like it's a good thing.
One can model procrastination as a reaction to some form of mental pain. Doing the work hurts one in some way, so one subconsciously finds excuses to do something else instead.
But pain is a valuable signal, and often learning and resolving the root cause of the pain can be more valuable than reaching for the oxycodone to power past it.
But pain is a valuable signal, and often learning and resolving the root cause of the pain can be more valuable than reaching for the oxycodone to power past it.
I think the same thing applies. Have you been procrastinating for months for example, perhaps because you utterly hate your job? Perhaps you should switch jobs.
I procrastinate all the time, listen to much to your mind or chase the fun stuff only, would not get you traction, probably it’s a distraction, because the mind is lazy. Most of our systems wants to conserve energy or expend at little as possible. Going to the gym in a cold morning is not something that the mind or body is seeking, so listen to the idea of not going would be bad for you. Muscles are lazy too, they just want to chill. But if you make them do a little work, they like it and ask for more. We are weird and we need to force us to do stuff. That’s your job, you command your body
I have always found that when a task becomes difficult to the point of procrastination, that is a sign that the approach to the task needs to be reworked.
The phrase "do something instead of nothing" might be more useful than "action leads to motivation." I have plenty of motivation - but my brain does not always comply when I try to focus on purpose. In such a case, I work on an unrelated task that is easy to engage with. This gives my brain a chance to focus, which begets more focus, until there is enough focus to do so on purpose.
The phrase "do something instead of nothing" might be more useful than "action leads to motivation." I have plenty of motivation - but my brain does not always comply when I try to focus on purpose. In such a case, I work on an unrelated task that is easy to engage with. This gives my brain a chance to focus, which begets more focus, until there is enough focus to do so on purpose.
This post and similar advice is aimed at people who feel pain from procrastination. You are not one of them, probably. It's not an inherently bad thing, just like any number of things some, not all, people struggle greatly with (drugs, food, etc.).
I would say that the original poster is intimately familiar with procrastination, because they recognize that the underlying cause of most procrastination is a barrier of some sort. Different people have different combinations barriers, so it can be difficult to recognize someone else's experience.
> Your brain is telling you that it is not interested in the current task. The question is: Why?
I think for a lot of us it's something like: Because it's nonsense busywork that I don't care about. Procrastinating isn't going to help, and it is absolutely bad because it leads to uncompleted tasks and that leads to financial distress. I need to get it done regardless of whether it's going to provide a dopamine hit or not. Best thing to do is to stop thinking about it and get it out of the way so that I can focus on the things I want to do. I'm not overworked, I just don't want to do this task. I am interested in exploring something else but that's not a choice that I have right now. I don't have the privilege of doing whatever I feel like doing. Pain of failure? No, it's not at all something that I'll fail at. It's drudgery avoidance. Unfortunately there's plenty of drudgery that has to be completed.
I think for a lot of us it's something like: Because it's nonsense busywork that I don't care about. Procrastinating isn't going to help, and it is absolutely bad because it leads to uncompleted tasks and that leads to financial distress. I need to get it done regardless of whether it's going to provide a dopamine hit or not. Best thing to do is to stop thinking about it and get it out of the way so that I can focus on the things I want to do. I'm not overworked, I just don't want to do this task. I am interested in exploring something else but that's not a choice that I have right now. I don't have the privilege of doing whatever I feel like doing. Pain of failure? No, it's not at all something that I'll fail at. It's drudgery avoidance. Unfortunately there's plenty of drudgery that has to be completed.
I find that shutting off one's brain and just slogging through a task leads to work quality on a par with AI slop.
So if one really is as uninterested in the quality of the output as you suggest, perhaps it might actually be better to dump the problem into Claude/Gemini/Cleverbot and just copy/paste/act upon the results verbatim and then mark the checkbox as "done" and move on.
For me personally, the pain of such efforts is ordinarily from making sure that the output is correct when the input is largely guesswork or speculation that always leads to hunting through a morass of poor documentation of some library or seeking a workaround to some irritating problem or rolling the dice on what the risk to various decisions might prove to be over the future: "eh, duct tape this and it ought to hold".
And most notably that doing more of this work correlates to an exponential rise in the volume of similar work that will be required down the road to maintain the same results.
Those are often exactly the time one would be best served by taking a step back and questioning the entire framework that supports the busywork in question. Perhaps starting from scratch or making some huge change would reduce the garbage portions of the effort and keep them from further proliferating?
So if one really is as uninterested in the quality of the output as you suggest, perhaps it might actually be better to dump the problem into Claude/Gemini/Cleverbot and just copy/paste/act upon the results verbatim and then mark the checkbox as "done" and move on.
For me personally, the pain of such efforts is ordinarily from making sure that the output is correct when the input is largely guesswork or speculation that always leads to hunting through a morass of poor documentation of some library or seeking a workaround to some irritating problem or rolling the dice on what the risk to various decisions might prove to be over the future: "eh, duct tape this and it ought to hold".
And most notably that doing more of this work correlates to an exponential rise in the volume of similar work that will be required down the road to maintain the same results.
Those are often exactly the time one would be best served by taking a step back and questioning the entire framework that supports the busywork in question. Perhaps starting from scratch or making some huge change would reduce the garbage portions of the effort and keep them from further proliferating?
While I don't disagree with this approach, it only works for some digital tasks. AI won't clean my house or exercise my body or engage in obligatory social interactions. In these cases, just getting it done by shutting off your brain is often the best way to get it going.
Also, it's not all or nothing. You can decide to engage more in the task as it's ongoing, which could contribute to higher quality output. The hard part is usually starting.
Also, it's not all or nothing. You can decide to engage more in the task as it's ongoing, which could contribute to higher quality output. The hard part is usually starting.
Yeah.. for awhile I tried exercising by walking/jogging on a treadmill with headphones watching youtube to keep my brain entertained through the drudgery.. but yeah, one constantly drowns in the noise of being jostled.
For me completely shutting down the brain (when/if I'm even capable of doing so) is just a function that activates sleep. While I haven't tried this while exercising in particular, I have more than learned my lesson from trying it merely standing up and the result is very much falling down.
For me completely shutting down the brain (when/if I'm even capable of doing so) is just a function that activates sleep. While I haven't tried this while exercising in particular, I have more than learned my lesson from trying it merely standing up and the result is very much falling down.
Well said!
The productivity fetishists want us to hate ourselves for resisting the orders issued by the executive mind. Fuck that.
The productivity fetishists want us to hate ourselves for resisting the orders issued by the executive mind. Fuck that.
Why? The answer is easy: the work is pointless corporate bullshit. Not sure if it ever going to hit the prod at all. But they pay huge salary and I need money. Turns out nice things are expensive.
I was going to post something similar until I saw your comment. I completely agree. It's difficult to motivate oneself when one knows the work they are doing is actually not worth doing.
many such as cases, it's clear why. People hate doing task x, because it's not fun nor valuable to them, but need to do because of duty.
I develop apps and after I have completed 80% of the crucial work, the remaining 20% of the work involves boring and brainless stuff like adding in app purchases, adding features like send feedback to developer, asking for reviewing the app, designing the app icon, designing the App Store screenshot, writing the metadata for App Store description etc.
I procrastinate super long on this 20% of boring task even though it could all be done in maybe 2 days.
I procrastinate super long on this 20% of boring task even though it could all be done in maybe 2 days.
To me, procrastination is the brain overestimating (or perhaps just estimating) the unpleasantness of a task in the future. The unpleasantness could come from general lack of pleasure in performing the task, anticipation of frustration or irritation due to a gap in the skills or resources required, anxiety about not being able to successfully complete the task, or the output of the task not meeting one's personal expectations.
One example for me is getting out of the house: I loathe the idea of getting dressed, getting into the car and driving, whenever I contemplate it, but once I'm behind the wheel, the thought always is "this isn't so bad". If I think about the getting dressed bit, that too, thought of in isolation, isn't so bad. It seems it is the anticipation of a seemingly complex sequence of tasks that tend to put the brain off.
One example for me is getting out of the house: I loathe the idea of getting dressed, getting into the car and driving, whenever I contemplate it, but once I'm behind the wheel, the thought always is "this isn't so bad". If I think about the getting dressed bit, that too, thought of in isolation, isn't so bad. It seems it is the anticipation of a seemingly complex sequence of tasks that tend to put the brain off.
"Across a decade working at hypergrowth tech companies like Meta and Pinterest, I constantly struggled with procrastination [...] I was not making progress on the things that mattered."
Maybe unless one can really convince themselves that their daily work matters (really matters and not just for their team/company metrics) one is bound to procrastinate as a symptom of some subconscious sense of pointlessness.
Maybe unless one can really convince themselves that their daily work matters (really matters and not just for their team/company metrics) one is bound to procrastinate as a symptom of some subconscious sense of pointlessness.
Relentlessly trying to lock up as much of the world's information as possible behind your login wall, I'd be struggling with procrastination as well.
Maybe the answer isn't so much finding new tricks to play on your mind, but finding something to do that doesn't involve codifying more power in the strong leader, to increase his masculinity in the worklace or whatever the political issue du jour is.
Maybe the answer isn't so much finding new tricks to play on your mind, but finding something to do that doesn't involve codifying more power in the strong leader, to increase his masculinity in the worklace or whatever the political issue du jour is.
Power and control over people's lives and public image is what they get off on, how can anyone feel like they have purpose working on that is beyond me, so it's true that innovation would be thwarted by procrastination - if they give them the "next big thing" it'll be monopolized and weaponized rather than given to the people like tcp/ip initially was. The key term is decentralization, and it's being blown up in favor of locked up datacenters behind layers of digital policing.
Yep, it's hard to summon genuine motivation when, deep down, something feels meaningless. You can build all the productivity systems in the world, but if the work itself feels hollow...
I observe the opposite: the more important something is the more afraid I am to approach it. I procrastinate because it is important.
I suspect it's because of fear of failure, as failure is more consequential the more important the task is.
For me it’s inverted. I have a hard time doing anything until failure is a concrete possibility. Then I become incredibly motivated to not fail.
The problem starts later in life, when a person starts misjudging both time/resources needed to rush complete a task and consequences of failing it.
Failing practically anything during the study in the university is a laughing matter. Worst case you have wasted 6 years on partying and got nothing in return, maybe some debt too if it was in the USA. Failing a task later in life may lead to jail time, deportation, divorce, eviction, homelessness etc. So getting familiar with procrastination and letting it get more severe with years is recipe for disaster.
Failing practically anything during the study in the university is a laughing matter. Worst case you have wasted 6 years on partying and got nothing in return, maybe some debt too if it was in the USA. Failing a task later in life may lead to jail time, deportation, divorce, eviction, homelessness etc. So getting familiar with procrastination and letting it get more severe with years is recipe for disaster.
When I see stories like this I always wonder "How did you get and keep jobs at meta and Pinterest if you have a procrastination problem?"
I procrastinated so badly I could never apply for jobs. And the jobs I did get I lost quickly due to the same procrastination.
I procrastinated so badly I could never apply for jobs. And the jobs I did get I lost quickly due to the same procrastination.
I was thinking about it a lot.
I think the programmers in most environments aren't judged based on some hard metrics that could say someone procrastinated half of the time and could have done twice as much.
Most judgement comes from remembering whether anything has been done at all, and if yes then whether it was sunbathing of quality. People (I at least) will rate higher someone who worked less but contributed higher quality code. Also good contributions to discussion, mentoring juniors is something a procrastinator might not even think is work but is valued highly.
And even while procrastinating some part of your brain often thinks about problem so the time isn't completely lost.
All in all procrastinators aren't as bad as it sounds unless we get into some deep pathology.
I think the programmers in most environments aren't judged based on some hard metrics that could say someone procrastinated half of the time and could have done twice as much.
Most judgement comes from remembering whether anything has been done at all, and if yes then whether it was sunbathing of quality. People (I at least) will rate higher someone who worked less but contributed higher quality code. Also good contributions to discussion, mentoring juniors is something a procrastinator might not even think is work but is valued highly.
And even while procrastinating some part of your brain often thinks about problem so the time isn't completely lost.
All in all procrastinators aren't as bad as it sounds unless we get into some deep pathology.
I think almost everybody has procrastination problems of some degree from time to time. Especially in occupations that need concentration on complicated things.
But procrastination problems don't mean infinite procrastination. It's just that work keeps piling up and then it has to be done in a burst when it has to really be done. I find this doesn't necessarily mean my output is less (in the short term), it's just that it's exhausting.
Also productivity requirements at work, no matter how fancy workolace, are typically way less than you may think. Just showing up and not actively cause grief goes a long way.
What you tend to see publicly is people in their productive phases, or quite exceptional outliers, or just messaging.
But procrastination problems don't mean infinite procrastination. It's just that work keeps piling up and then it has to be done in a burst when it has to really be done. I find this doesn't necessarily mean my output is less (in the short term), it's just that it's exhausting.
Also productivity requirements at work, no matter how fancy workolace, are typically way less than you may think. Just showing up and not actively cause grief goes a long way.
What you tend to see publicly is people in their productive phases, or quite exceptional outliers, or just messaging.
I made similar comments on this site alluding to how when I went into this field, I thought I was going to be working with passionate people that truly cared about the craft. I was met with the rude reality that none of my coworkers care about this craft in the slightest, and it is all merely just an ends to a means for them. Now, I do not necessarily blame my coworkers. Passion is not really within one's control.
For the sake of analogy, I feel like I wanted to be a photographer and take beautiful and artistic pictures, but in reality, I just take school pictures for a living.
Now, I do believe there are passionate jobs with passionate programmers out there, but:
1. I do not know where nor with whom one would even find such roles.
2. My lack of skill would be more burdensome than helpful for such teams. I'm not new either. I've been at this game for over a decade now.
So, I am stuck in this procrastination loop -- I lack the skills to better my situation, but I also feel so far behind that I, at some level, believe I am incapable of ever being able to find/retain such a job.
Long story short, I am not sure what your particular reasons are for procrastinating, but brother/sister, I don't blame you one bit for it.
For the sake of analogy, I feel like I wanted to be a photographer and take beautiful and artistic pictures, but in reality, I just take school pictures for a living.
Now, I do believe there are passionate jobs with passionate programmers out there, but:
1. I do not know where nor with whom one would even find such roles.
2. My lack of skill would be more burdensome than helpful for such teams. I'm not new either. I've been at this game for over a decade now.
So, I am stuck in this procrastination loop -- I lack the skills to better my situation, but I also feel so far behind that I, at some level, believe I am incapable of ever being able to find/retain such a job.
Long story short, I am not sure what your particular reasons are for procrastinating, but brother/sister, I don't blame you one bit for it.
My lack of skill would be more burdensome than helpful for such teams. I'm not new either. I've been at this game for over a decade now.
seems like you are also suffering from imposter syndrome. if you have been doing this for over a decade you should have learned something.
I lack the skills to better my situation
practice. work on a side project. follow and implement tutorials. contribute to FOSS projects. (contact me if you want some suggestions. see my profile)
seems like you are also suffering from imposter syndrome. if you have been doing this for over a decade you should have learned something.
I lack the skills to better my situation
practice. work on a side project. follow and implement tutorials. contribute to FOSS projects. (contact me if you want some suggestions. see my profile)
And how have you overcome this to maintain a functional life? Honestly curious.
My boss met with me this week to have me finish something important to get done by Friday. That really kicked me into gear this week and I was very motivated and productive. Come Friday, no message, no more push from him, no mention of how he needs my work or asking how it's going. That instantly tanked my motivation to continue
> Come Friday, no message [...] tanked my motivation to continue
I see the bookends, but notice the root cause
> That really kicked me into gear [...] I was very motivated and productive
You don't have intrinsic motivation for these tasks and the job. This is the thread to pull on. Keep asking "why?"
In the least, I recommend a pro-active note, letting him know you're done and ready for his feedback on the assignment or new priorities. Figure out why he didn't (or persistently doesn't) follow-up.
I see the bookends, but notice the root cause
> That really kicked me into gear [...] I was very motivated and productive
You don't have intrinsic motivation for these tasks and the job. This is the thread to pull on. Keep asking "why?"
In the least, I recommend a pro-active note, letting him know you're done and ready for his feedback on the assignment or new priorities. Figure out why he didn't (or persistently doesn't) follow-up.
in situations like this i forgive them if the only effect is that i get work done faster without downsides to my other activities/responsibilities. priorities change. if less procrastination is the only sideeffect i am not complaining.
Come on, be professional. Your job is to simply message when the job is done by Friday.
It is normal to struggle with procrastination from time to time but if is a regular occurrence you need to check the actual causes.
You might have ADHD.
And is is very important to know whether you have it or not because all that advice for neurotypical people will not work for you then. In fact it will harm you. It will make you feel as a failure.
You need to figure out how your brain works and only then you will finally manage to make lasting changes.
You might have ADHD.
And is is very important to know whether you have it or not because all that advice for neurotypical people will not work for you then. In fact it will harm you. It will make you feel as a failure.
You need to figure out how your brain works and only then you will finally manage to make lasting changes.
I would argue the other way around. I have ADHD, but the thing that really helped me with work procrastination, which I think would help even without ADHD, was to find a job that is actually interesting.
In approx 7 years I went through working at all the top software companies in my country, but what really fixed my problems was moving on to being a researcher at the university. I’m now paid less than half from before, but it’s still enough, and I couldn’t be happier.
Getting to work on what I think is actually important and interesting every day is what helped. I also seem happier than the younger researchers who didn’t work at companies first, who don’t know how good they have it.
In approx 7 years I went through working at all the top software companies in my country, but what really fixed my problems was moving on to being a researcher at the university. I’m now paid less than half from before, but it’s still enough, and I couldn’t be happier.
Getting to work on what I think is actually important and interesting every day is what helped. I also seem happier than the younger researchers who didn’t work at companies first, who don’t know how good they have it.
What’s an example of the kind of advice that doesn’t work?
(I’m always curious to learn other potential diagnostic markers for adhd)
(I’m always curious to learn other potential diagnostic markers for adhd)
>What’s an example of the kind of advice that doesn’t work?
For some people struggling with chronic lifelong procrastination, the oft-repeated advice from the author such as "Action leads to motivation, not the other way around." ... and similar variants such as, "Screw motivation, what you need is discipline!" ... and other related big picture ideas such as Dilbert cartoonist Scott Adams' "Systems instead of Goals" -- all do not work.
And adding extra rhetorical embellishments to the advice such as using the phrase "it's simple [...]", and using the word "[...] just [...]" as in:
- "Stopping procrastination isn't that hard to solve. It's simple. Just chop up the task into much smaller subtasks and just start on that tiny subtask. That will give you momentum to finish it."
... also doesn't work. Some procrastinators just procrastinate the initiation of starting that tiny subtask! For the few that actually do try to start with that first step, they'll quickly lose steam because of boredom/distraction/whatever and the overall task remains unfinished.
A lot of books and blogs about time management repeat the same advice that many procrastinators have all heard before and it doesn't work. The procrastinators understand the logic of the advice but it doesn't matter because there are psychological roadblocks that prevent them from following it.
EDIT reply to: >That doesn't mean the advice is bad,
I'm not saying the advice is wrong. Instead, I'm saying that some well-meaning people who give that repeated advice seem surprised that it doesn't work on some people. Because the advice givers believed "Action Precedes Motivation" worked on themselves, they automatically assume that imparting those same words to other procrastinators will also work. It often doesn't. The meta-analysis of that advice and why it sometimes doesn't work is not done because the people giving that advice are the ones who used that technique successfully. This creates a self-confirmation bias.
For some people struggling with chronic lifelong procrastination, the oft-repeated advice from the author such as "Action leads to motivation, not the other way around." ... and similar variants such as, "Screw motivation, what you need is discipline!" ... and other related big picture ideas such as Dilbert cartoonist Scott Adams' "Systems instead of Goals" -- all do not work.
And adding extra rhetorical embellishments to the advice such as using the phrase "it's simple [...]", and using the word "[...] just [...]" as in:
- "Stopping procrastination isn't that hard to solve. It's simple. Just chop up the task into much smaller subtasks and just start on that tiny subtask. That will give you momentum to finish it."
... also doesn't work. Some procrastinators just procrastinate the initiation of starting that tiny subtask! For the few that actually do try to start with that first step, they'll quickly lose steam because of boredom/distraction/whatever and the overall task remains unfinished.
A lot of books and blogs about time management repeat the same advice that many procrastinators have all heard before and it doesn't work. The procrastinators understand the logic of the advice but it doesn't matter because there are psychological roadblocks that prevent them from following it.
EDIT reply to: >That doesn't mean the advice is bad,
I'm not saying the advice is wrong. Instead, I'm saying that some well-meaning people who give that repeated advice seem surprised that it doesn't work on some people. Because the advice givers believed "Action Precedes Motivation" worked on themselves, they automatically assume that imparting those same words to other procrastinators will also work. It often doesn't. The meta-analysis of that advice and why it sometimes doesn't work is not done because the people giving that advice are the ones who used that technique successfully. This creates a self-confirmation bias.
If somebody had “lifelong procrastination” and was routinely overwhelmed by simple tasks, my first thought would be to see if they are actually dealing with depression because it sounds like something bigger.
How is depression "bigger" that ADHD? That sounds super invalidating.
Being overwhelmed with simple task is typical ADHD behavior.
Lots of people with untreated ADHD develop depression as well. It is not either/or. Not to mention that there is a overlap in symptoms as well.
A diagnosis for ADHD will make sure that there no other physical or mental things present that could explain the symptoms instead. The will try to exclude anything else that could explain your struggles. They check for stuff like depression.
On the other hand, a depression diagnosis is just given out like candy. I never understood that.
Why wouldn't you ask WHY someone is depressed in the first place? I don't mean to invalidate people that are depressed. Sometimes that is just what is going on but it still vexes me because so many neurodivergent people will get diagnosis like "depression" because health care providers refuse to look further into it.
It is such an uphill battle get diagnosed with ADHD.
Being overwhelmed with simple task is typical ADHD behavior.
Lots of people with untreated ADHD develop depression as well. It is not either/or. Not to mention that there is a overlap in symptoms as well.
A diagnosis for ADHD will make sure that there no other physical or mental things present that could explain the symptoms instead. The will try to exclude anything else that could explain your struggles. They check for stuff like depression.
On the other hand, a depression diagnosis is just given out like candy. I never understood that.
Why wouldn't you ask WHY someone is depressed in the first place? I don't mean to invalidate people that are depressed. Sometimes that is just what is going on but it still vexes me because so many neurodivergent people will get diagnosis like "depression" because health care providers refuse to look further into it.
It is such an uphill battle get diagnosed with ADHD.
I didn’t say depression was bigger than adhd. Depression is bigger than “I just need a little productivity hack to get started”
Yes, when I struggled with motivation, procrastination, whatever you want to call it, I was diagnosed as depressed for years
Turns out, unmedicated ADHD, procrastination, and depression are all comorbid
Turns out, unmedicated ADHD, procrastination, and depression are all comorbid
I've recently learned that Avoidant Personality Disorder (AVPD) can result from ADHD, too.
Your points are well taken, though I want to nuance them a bit. My experience(with severe ADHD-C) is that this type of advice can work. It's just that it's not something you can just decide to start doing and immediately find success at. It's just a lot more complicated to get this off the ground, but it's possible. For some complex organisational system, you need to compile that system into "ADHD byte code" and for that, you need to bootstrap a compiler. Create an incredibly simple, extensible system which can do things your ADHD brain can't on its own. Then you need to find ways to force yourself to follow that system using various hacks like alarms tied to QR codes, body doubling, regular therapy or home visits, etc. then you can start implementing more complex structure in that system. And even the simple system is not gonna be easy. It's gonna take months of trying, failing, starting over. The ADHD brain is absolutely capable of developing habits(just look at the comorbidity rates between ADHD and various types of addiction), it's just a lot of work.
I'm in the process of doing this myself, and after 8 months, with many setbacks, I kinda have a base system I'm following that's significantly improving my quality of life and ability to keep up with everyday tasks. And it's still a struggle, but it's getting easier.
I'm writing a blog post about it currently, which will be more structured. It's about how I used my software dev skills to think about and tackle my ADHD(and other issues). Not about writing actual software(although software is involved), but imagining the brain exhibiting ADHD is a software system , identifying the "bugs", and combining concepts from software dev and behavioral/cognitive psychology to fix, or at least mitigate them.
This blog post could be finished two days from now, two years from now, or never. ADHD is still hard to live with, and I'm still quite dysfunctional. I guess if I do finish it, it'll be worth reading since I'll be on to something...
I'm in the process of doing this myself, and after 8 months, with many setbacks, I kinda have a base system I'm following that's significantly improving my quality of life and ability to keep up with everyday tasks. And it's still a struggle, but it's getting easier.
I'm writing a blog post about it currently, which will be more structured. It's about how I used my software dev skills to think about and tackle my ADHD(and other issues). Not about writing actual software(although software is involved), but imagining the brain exhibiting ADHD is a software system , identifying the "bugs", and combining concepts from software dev and behavioral/cognitive psychology to fix, or at least mitigate them.
This blog post could be finished two days from now, two years from now, or never. ADHD is still hard to live with, and I'm still quite dysfunctional. I guess if I do finish it, it'll be worth reading since I'll be on to something...
So since none of these things work and you're framing ADHD as being such that even getting basic tasks done can lead to failure, what do you suggest that might work?
I'm honestly curious, because I can't believe that a person having the problem this bad should just resign themselves to a life of misery and failure.
I'm honestly curious, because I can't believe that a person having the problem this bad should just resign themselves to a life of misery and failure.
so what does work then?
isn't the problem here that the answer is very individual. for me for example some of the above things do work, and some don't. some of the time. it's like it depends and there is no clear answer even just for myself. knowing whether i had ADHD would not make any difference. i'd still not know what works.
for example i have seen tasks lists recommended as one way to deal with ADHD. because the lists help focus. isn't breaking things down into small steps the same thing? others here with ADHD also claim that specific suggestions work for them. so this isn't clear cut, and it doesn't make sense to just dismiss the suggestions.
you are right, there is more than just getting started. boredom and distractions are a problem too. but they are also a problem for "normal" people.
seems to me that the only thing we can do is to list a number of possible approaches, and let everyone pick what works best for them.
so back to the original question: what does work for people with ADHD?
isn't the problem here that the answer is very individual. for me for example some of the above things do work, and some don't. some of the time. it's like it depends and there is no clear answer even just for myself. knowing whether i had ADHD would not make any difference. i'd still not know what works.
for example i have seen tasks lists recommended as one way to deal with ADHD. because the lists help focus. isn't breaking things down into small steps the same thing? others here with ADHD also claim that specific suggestions work for them. so this isn't clear cut, and it doesn't make sense to just dismiss the suggestions.
you are right, there is more than just getting started. boredom and distractions are a problem too. but they are also a problem for "normal" people.
seems to me that the only thing we can do is to list a number of possible approaches, and let everyone pick what works best for them.
so back to the original question: what does work for people with ADHD?
> what does work for people with ADHD
Medication.
Not for everyone with ADHD. Only for 70% but that is still pretty good.
Besides that, again understanding how their brains work.
Neurotypical people don't have executive dysfunction. If they have a task that they know how to do, have the means to do, know they need to do, have the time to do and want to do, they can... just do it.
In fact neurotypical people can't even imagine it being any other way. For me with ADHD this sounds like a super power that I can't even comprehend having.
To simplify it very much, the ADHD brain is chronically understimultated. It lacks dopamine.
So easy boring tasks can be insanely painful. That is why stimulants work so well. It is not to get us "high", it so so we get the same level of stimulation as a neurotypical person watching paint dry.
But, we can still get over-stimulated as well so it is a balance act.
Neurotypical people mostly manage time and exhaustion, I guess but managing ADHD is managing your level of stimulation and focus and time tertiary.
You need to build activities into your routine that stimulate you, both mentally and physically. Washing your clothing can be much more taxing for you that fixing that complex bug no one else can figure out. ADHD can make the hard things easy and the easy things hard.
So yeah, ultimately every human is different and what works for one might not work for another. Yes some advice or trick for neurotypical people might also work for someone with ADHD but if you don't understand yourself you will not know what to user and what to dismiss and only hurt yourself.
Medication.
Not for everyone with ADHD. Only for 70% but that is still pretty good.
Besides that, again understanding how their brains work.
Neurotypical people don't have executive dysfunction. If they have a task that they know how to do, have the means to do, know they need to do, have the time to do and want to do, they can... just do it.
In fact neurotypical people can't even imagine it being any other way. For me with ADHD this sounds like a super power that I can't even comprehend having.
To simplify it very much, the ADHD brain is chronically understimultated. It lacks dopamine.
So easy boring tasks can be insanely painful. That is why stimulants work so well. It is not to get us "high", it so so we get the same level of stimulation as a neurotypical person watching paint dry.
But, we can still get over-stimulated as well so it is a balance act.
Neurotypical people mostly manage time and exhaustion, I guess but managing ADHD is managing your level of stimulation and focus and time tertiary.
You need to build activities into your routine that stimulate you, both mentally and physically. Washing your clothing can be much more taxing for you that fixing that complex bug no one else can figure out. ADHD can make the hard things easy and the easy things hard.
So yeah, ultimately every human is different and what works for one might not work for another. Yes some advice or trick for neurotypical people might also work for someone with ADHD but if you don't understand yourself you will not know what to user and what to dismiss and only hurt yourself.
Honestly, medication.
This looks like an answer from a procrastinator that actually developed a system to ensure they continue procrastinating long-term. Sure, suggestions of systems that could help with that won't help without a sometimes descomunal effort. That doesn't mean the advice is bad, just that it's hard and most people won't be able to overcome lifelong procrastination.
Your brain does not work the same way as my brain works. I am sorry, I know this is hard to believe but you will develop some actual emphathy once you accept the fact.
General advice for running a marathon will not for for someone who has no legs. I can't will my brain to work differently than it does. I can just learn to cope with my ADHD brain. And you being judgemental about it will not change that.
General advice for running a marathon will not for for someone who has no legs. I can't will my brain to work differently than it does. I can just learn to cope with my ADHD brain. And you being judgemental about it will not change that.
> Your brain does not work the same way as my brain works. I am sorry, I know this is hard to believe but you will develop some actual emphathy once you accept the fact.
I am also sorry but I do have ADHD and I'm no different than any other human being, and so aren't you. Many people just deal with it much better than you, but at least it means it is possible. Nobody said it is easy but people with ADHD have a tendency to think that people doing what they need to do have it easy, "they just do it". Well, no. That is not how it works. It is hard for everybody.
I am also sorry but I do have ADHD and I'm no different than any other human being, and so aren't you. Many people just deal with it much better than you, but at least it means it is possible. Nobody said it is easy but people with ADHD have a tendency to think that people doing what they need to do have it easy, "they just do it". Well, no. That is not how it works. It is hard for everybody.
Now that attitude is just mean to people with ADHD. Attitude like that is one of the reasons why people with ADHD like me, have to needlessly suffer in a society dismissing my mental disorder or pretending it doesn't exist.
I am sorry but the reality is that most people in this world do not have any executive dysfunction. They can just do things.
They often do not want to do things. They will often choose to do the easy or more pleasant task but they do not have the same struggle someone with ADHD has.
The world is not fair. Yes, you can still achieve your goals with ADHD but you will have to go about it differently. The first step is in accepting yourself and leaning into your strengths and weaknesses.
They often do not want to do things. They will often choose to do the easy or more pleasant task but they do not have the same struggle someone with ADHD has.
The world is not fair. Yes, you can still achieve your goals with ADHD but you will have to go about it differently. The first step is in accepting yourself and leaning into your strengths and weaknesses.
ADHD is so stigmatized now that you cannot with a straight face tell someone "I have ADD" without getting an eye roll, unfortunately. many won't believe you were correctly diagnosed
I've also found that there's no real cure for it. You can take the meds but they'll chip away at your personality and health in other ways.
I've also found that there's no real cure for it. You can take the meds but they'll chip away at your personality and health in other ways.
I still don't believe there is such a thing as a "correct" diagnosis of ADHD as there is no scientific/objective criteria for it in the first place.
It's not stigmatized, more like reverse. It's "normalized" and neurotypical people just dismiss it outright, as a "play-pretend illness". Also it become a "fashionable" diagnosis. People who don't have it pretend that it brings them closer to a focused genius Sherlock Holmes or similar characters, which is completely wrong in 99.9% of the cases.
I used to think that being diagnosed would not change much but for me it did. A lot. Just having more knowledge about myself has been extremely empowering. Even just knowing myself that I have it helps me be kinder to myself.
Also there is ADHD coaching. Having someone who had ADHD themselves coach me through my problems was an absolute game changer.
Maybe that could be an option for you as well. Worked much better that traditional therapy for me personally.
As for medication, well for most people with ADHD it works really well and is worth the relative mild side effect. But that is most, for some it does not work unfortunately. I think it is always worth trying but yeah it is no silver bullet that works for everyone.
Also there is ADHD coaching. Having someone who had ADHD themselves coach me through my problems was an absolute game changer.
Maybe that could be an option for you as well. Worked much better that traditional therapy for me personally.
As for medication, well for most people with ADHD it works really well and is worth the relative mild side effect. But that is most, for some it does not work unfortunately. I think it is always worth trying but yeah it is no silver bullet that works for everyone.
Some great comments in this thread and I agree, a lot of it comes down to understanding yourself.
In my case, not always, but often, procrastination shows up when fear is involved. Fear of failure, of not doing something perfectly, of the task being too big. What’s helped me is turning the task into a challenge, because I know that personally, I thrive on challenges. It re-frames the fear into something exciting, and once I get started, I follow all of the other advice such like breaking it down into small steps. Thanks for sharing.
In my case, not always, but often, procrastination shows up when fear is involved. Fear of failure, of not doing something perfectly, of the task being too big. What’s helped me is turning the task into a challenge, because I know that personally, I thrive on challenges. It re-frames the fear into something exciting, and once I get started, I follow all of the other advice such like breaking it down into small steps. Thanks for sharing.
I’ve had a similar experience. If it’s a “I must do” with high stakes, I get a fear of failure, fear of disappointing and if left unchecked it unfortunately becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
However, challenges that start with “I wonder if”—like wondering if some bold idea just might actually be possible—give me a huge reservoir of energy to work well beyond my normal limits and find new solution that truly make a difference.
Of course in most projects, actual innovation is only a fraction of the work so some reframing of “run the business” tasks is necessary. That’s when I tap into gratitude: for being able to work on a project, for being entrusted with a particular task, etc.
However, challenges that start with “I wonder if”—like wondering if some bold idea just might actually be possible—give me a huge reservoir of energy to work well beyond my normal limits and find new solution that truly make a difference.
Of course in most projects, actual innovation is only a fraction of the work so some reframing of “run the business” tasks is necessary. That’s when I tap into gratitude: for being able to work on a project, for being entrusted with a particular task, etc.
I like your approach of reframing with gratitude, may borrow that. Thanks!
> Across a decade working at hypergrowth tech companies like Meta and Pinterest, I constantly struggled with procrastination
I used to procrastinate a lot when I was a PhD student and later in academia. Sometimes, it was literally weeks of doing nothing and stressing out.
I eventually migrated to big tech and I now rarely procrastinate. We have pretty tangible goals, good results are rewarded and lack of results would raise concerns pretty quickly.
In my case, working in the right environment helped a lot with procrastination.
I used to procrastinate a lot when I was a PhD student and later in academia. Sometimes, it was literally weeks of doing nothing and stressing out.
I eventually migrated to big tech and I now rarely procrastinate. We have pretty tangible goals, good results are rewarded and lack of results would raise concerns pretty quickly.
In my case, working in the right environment helped a lot with procrastination.
It's good to read this while being in one of those nothing-months myself. I have extended the deadlines and my goals are not clear.
Incidentally, I have a supervisor who felt the exact same way when he was doing his PhD and fled to industry. Evidently he found that there was something to be enjoyed in the freedoms of research and returned.
Incidentally, I have a supervisor who felt the exact same way when he was doing his PhD and fled to industry. Evidently he found that there was something to be enjoyed in the freedoms of research and returned.
> lack of results would raise concerns pretty quickly.
In my case, working in the right environment helped a lot with procrastination.
Sounds more like fear than “not” procrastinating.
But on the other hand fear is a good motivator
Sounds more like fear than “not” procrastinating.
But on the other hand fear is a good motivator
The older I get, the more I realize there's no point. I'll never be rich. I'll never have a family. I'll never go to space. I'll never take part in Olympics. Best I can do is beating a video game on medium. So I try to focus on that, instead of spending 80% of my life trying to make myself 20% more productive.
Regarding the family part. Don’t feel terribly bas about not having a family. There is the possibility of a divorce and the resulting court ordered payments that can be far more devastating. It’s simply too hard to keep someone else happy all the time. Frustrations add up, more fights, more insults, more angry words. As humans I don’t think we can ever be happy.
> It’s simply too hard to keep someone else happy all the time
It's definitely going to be too hard as it is imo simply not possible and is a non-goal for a marriage.
It's definitely going to be too hard as it is imo simply not possible and is a non-goal for a marriage.
I know, but it still sucks to be alone. It's instinct to seek partnership
i'll never be rich either, and contrary to the KFC founder who got rich very late it is not lack of opportunity but lack of motivation to be rich. as soon as i earn some money i'll spend it on hiring others to help me build what i want, or if it is enough, even stop earning money to focus on my interests.
family is trickier. finding the right partner is very hard. it takes a lot of introspection and being able to recognize flaws in yourself and in your partner. it took me decades to understand what i need in a partner. and now i feel like i'd rather stay alone than have a partner that doesn't fill my needs. that sounds very selfish, but it goes of course both ways, i also look at the needs of my partner and evaluate whether i can fulfill those needs. (in short it's about compatible goals. many chinese women for example just want their husband to be successful and enable a comfortable life. fortunately the woman i found didn't because as i said above, that's just not a life goal for me)
when you mention space, the olympics and video games i get the impression that those are not even your real goals, and you are more likely lamenting that you feel like you don't have anything to strive for.
as i wrote above, it took me decades, not just to understand what i need in a partner, but simply what i need in life. the interesting thing is that now that i think i understand that, actually fulfilling that need became less important. understanding myself helped me detach.
as for beating procrastination, for me it's not about increasing productivity but being productive at all. it's not just 20%, it's 200% or more. it's about keeping that job and doing enough to get leads for the next one.
family is trickier. finding the right partner is very hard. it takes a lot of introspection and being able to recognize flaws in yourself and in your partner. it took me decades to understand what i need in a partner. and now i feel like i'd rather stay alone than have a partner that doesn't fill my needs. that sounds very selfish, but it goes of course both ways, i also look at the needs of my partner and evaluate whether i can fulfill those needs. (in short it's about compatible goals. many chinese women for example just want their husband to be successful and enable a comfortable life. fortunately the woman i found didn't because as i said above, that's just not a life goal for me)
when you mention space, the olympics and video games i get the impression that those are not even your real goals, and you are more likely lamenting that you feel like you don't have anything to strive for.
as i wrote above, it took me decades, not just to understand what i need in a partner, but simply what i need in life. the interesting thing is that now that i think i understand that, actually fulfilling that need became less important. understanding myself helped me detach.
as for beating procrastination, for me it's not about increasing productivity but being productive at all. it's not just 20%, it's 200% or more. it's about keeping that job and doing enough to get leads for the next one.
On a serious note, you never actually _know_ that e.g. you'll never be rich. E.g. KFC founder was ~62 years old when they founded the company. The median age of (successful) founders is also roughly 40, if not more.
see my comment above. i know that i'll never be rich, nor do i want to, because trying to get rich it would interfere with how i want to live my life...
This vibe matches perfectly with your nick name :)
When stuck I do what I call "prepping". Don't try to do the task, just prep for it -- clean the room, the desk, close distracting websites, gather the materials.
It's lowering the activation energy so the reaction can happen more easily.
It's lowering the activation energy so the reaction can happen more easily.
I notice cleaning had a huge effect on greasing the wheels for me. It's the decluttering for me which I think prevents me from thinking about all the stuff on the counter in some far off place in my mind.
cleaning for me is just another form of procrastination. the reason i think that is because once i am done cleaning i feel no better or more motivated to do the work. on the contrary i feel frustrated by how much time i spent cleaning up.
Always be knolling.
Related to taking tiny steps, I've set up a daily habit checklist with the lowest bar possible, even lower than the author's suggested log statement. When it comes to software dev, it's just "open my IDE and look at my notes for what to do next". This usually just takes 10 seconds, but it's the first step in starting and usually leads to me doing at least a bit more, so it's helpful when I'm at my lowest in terms of energy. And even if I do nothing else, I get some satisfaction that I at least completed my to-do and did a tiny bit more than nothing for the day.
++ for the “lowest bar” and constantly negotiate with oneself on if every line is still valuable and brings profit and not despair.
Like “brush teeth”, “do nothing at all for half an hour after work” “remove trash photos for the day in the phone”, “finish working” (here I have a detailed sublist ending with “close computer lid”) “move todos I did not have time for today to tomorrow”
another cool habit is “I did list”: add items that you did that were not planned, because we sometimes forget why we did not do something “planned”, because we actually did something else important that we are just blind to when “planning”. for example, “meal”, “took some rest that I actually need”, “took out trash”, “told someone irritating to fuck off” etc etc
Like “brush teeth”, “do nothing at all for half an hour after work” “remove trash photos for the day in the phone”, “finish working” (here I have a detailed sublist ending with “close computer lid”) “move todos I did not have time for today to tomorrow”
another cool habit is “I did list”: add items that you did that were not planned, because we sometimes forget why we did not do something “planned”, because we actually did something else important that we are just blind to when “planning”. for example, “meal”, “took some rest that I actually need”, “took out trash”, “told someone irritating to fuck off” etc etc
I've found that sometimes the first action doesn't even have to involve directly working on the problem, just trying to write down a series of actions you need to take in a todo list can unblock you mentally.
Sometimes I can trick myself into getting started that way.
The trick is to come up with a tiny goal and give yourself permission to quit once you reach it so it’s not like your overwhelmed by the full task.
The smallness of the task is important, but it’s even more important that you genuinely give yourself permission to stop when it’s done. If you don’t do that, it’s not “one small task”, it’s “step one in a big task” and you’ll keep procrastinating
For coding it’s a sequence of: “Ill just get all the software and documentation open and organized”
“I’ll create a few empty files on a new branch”
“I’ll just stub out a few things I KNOW I’ll need”
…
For other non-code writing, I’ve occasionally been able to hack it in a similar way by writing progressively more detailed outlines.
For physical projects, sometimes it’s just about gathering supplies and organizing tools.
The trick is to come up with a tiny goal and give yourself permission to quit once you reach it so it’s not like your overwhelmed by the full task.
The smallness of the task is important, but it’s even more important that you genuinely give yourself permission to stop when it’s done. If you don’t do that, it’s not “one small task”, it’s “step one in a big task” and you’ll keep procrastinating
For coding it’s a sequence of: “Ill just get all the software and documentation open and organized”
“I’ll create a few empty files on a new branch”
“I’ll just stub out a few things I KNOW I’ll need”
…
For other non-code writing, I’ve occasionally been able to hack it in a similar way by writing progressively more detailed outlines.
For physical projects, sometimes it’s just about gathering supplies and organizing tools.
Sometimes what one self-describes as procrastination is actually ADHD or values misalignment — sometimes one cannot work for reasons that are not personal failings.
I have found that “procrastination” is not a particularly helpful word because, for me, its meaning includes a shame component that can obfuscate causes.
I have found that “procrastination” is not a particularly helpful word because, for me, its meaning includes a shame component that can obfuscate causes.
I also found that I was most likely to procrastinate when the goal was too vague and the task was too big. So now I will break the task into super small steps, such as "open a file" or "run a test." It sounds a bit silly, but it really works. Maybe sometimes the brain does not need a motivational speech, but just a gentle push.
The article focuses more on procrastination at work, what about those who procrastinate outside of work instead?
I mean, its the same concept. what are you procrastinating on?
Sometimes on house chores or small repairs to do.
Everyday I have to prepare dinner and put the plates, glasses, forks and knifes in the table, and, I don't know why, get that feeling that I'd rather do anything else (or, most times, nothing at all). So I always start everything by putting the towel in the table (don't know if it's called like that in EN, not a native speaker). It seems to click something and the rest follows.
Maybe the idea can help you starting things?
It also helps that, sometimes, when the tasks are big, I convince myself that I can finish it later. Many times I do not have to finish it later..
Maybe the idea can help you starting things?
It also helps that, sometimes, when the tasks are big, I convince myself that I can finish it later. Many times I do not have to finish it later..
Is the towel for wiping your mouth? If so I'd call that a napkin. If the plate goes on top of it it's more a placemats. If serving dishes get set out on it and it runs the length the table, a runner.
I do not know much or anything about your situation, but here is one thing that might work.
I would suggest picking a fixed point in time every week. At this point in time you will finish (if they are small enough, otherwise split in multiple steps) on of these chores/repairs. E.g., every Saturday afternoon from 1 am you will finish one of these. The rest of the time you then do not need to think about these which is your reward for doing one chore/repair.
I would suggest picking a fixed point in time every week. At this point in time you will finish (if they are small enough, otherwise split in multiple steps) on of these chores/repairs. E.g., every Saturday afternoon from 1 am you will finish one of these. The rest of the time you then do not need to think about these which is your reward for doing one chore/repair.
The warrant for this claim: The smaller the action you ask from yourself, the easier it is to choose it over inaction.
But sometimes it's not inaction we're choosing against; it's discomfort.
In that case, this becomes simplistic.
But sometimes it's not inaction we're choosing against; it's discomfort.
In that case, this becomes simplistic.
Breaking things down can still help, but it doesn't magically erase the discomfort. It's more like easing into cold water
There was one quote that helped me get past this, "self-discipline is a form of self-respect" and there's no way around that if you don't have any.
I've personally found LLMs to be particularly helpful to get started with something I have trouble with: surely, they'll most certainly get it wrong (unless it's something trivial), but it gives you enough momentum to keep going even if you end up discarding its original output completely
Lack of motivation isn't an issue, we procrastinate when we have lack of power to do the task.
The core point of the article is breaking down the task, which he made it look trivial but it's not that simple.
In my experience, higher expectations leads to trying to control the outcome which leads to perfectionism and procrastinating for "ideal" time. So the key is to reduce expectations, which is under our control.
Once I reduce expectation I can try random stuffs which usually lead to breakthrough and the flywheel mentioned in the article.
The core point of the article is breaking down the task, which he made it look trivial but it's not that simple.
In my experience, higher expectations leads to trying to control the outcome which leads to perfectionism and procrastinating for "ideal" time. So the key is to reduce expectations, which is under our control.
Once I reduce expectation I can try random stuffs which usually lead to breakthrough and the flywheel mentioned in the article.
When beeing unemployed for some months, i got up every morning as if i had to go to work.
I cleande my apartment, did some paperwork and joined a social welfare project where poeple can maintain a structure.
That was working in a cafe or doing garden work. I received free coffee for that and met some people i sometimes meet.
The worst thing is to stay in a bubble of netflix series, social networks and rotting away.
I have suffered depression but i forced myself out of it by that.
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In defence of procrastination, perhaps there are good reasons for failing to have enthusiasm for whatever-it-is. Perhaps trying to do something but being unable to muster the energy is an indication that this is not the thing you really ought to be doing. That the thing you believe to be a worthy goal is itself a false goal, and not where your heart is at, and that you need to take a second, deeper look.
Or maybe that is just another excuse :)
Or maybe that is just another excuse :)
There is a lot of truth in what you’re saying I believe.
At least, in the “cadence of work”. They say in the article about consistent productivity for example. But lets think about consistency and quantitative productivity (ie amount of work per day).
of course we are pressured to be “consistently highly productive”. But is it healthy and sustainable for everyone? Probably not. So I would start with “consistently bare minimum productive” and not demand more from myself. If I demand more, the “procrastination” kicks in, because my body knows that it needs rest and relaxation.
we are not robots: work for us and not we for work.
of course we are pressured to be “consistently highly productive”. But is it healthy and sustainable for everyone? Probably not. So I would start with “consistently bare minimum productive” and not demand more from myself. If I demand more, the “procrastination” kicks in, because my body knows that it needs rest and relaxation.
we are not robots: work for us and not we for work.
I agree. I even see support of this in the seasons. If you think about the difference in light between summer and winter, it is far more natural to be up and about when there is more light, and far more likely to be 'lazy' in the winter. The workweek however is constant, even though the quality of time is entirely different. So, in this example 'time' throughout the year is not the same - feeling less energetic in winter is perfectly acceptable, and not a problem.
You can characterise this real factor (quality of time over the year) as 'procrastination' but I think this is unfair. Other factors such as joy/depression, meaning in work, personal circumstances, etc also come in to play. But yeah, if 'work' is the highest principle one has, these are just excuses for procrastination.
You can characterise this real factor (quality of time over the year) as 'procrastination' but I think this is unfair. Other factors such as joy/depression, meaning in work, personal circumstances, etc also come in to play. But yeah, if 'work' is the highest principle one has, these are just excuses for procrastination.
Wow! You probably just opened my eyes to the “spring productivity boost” pattern clearly observed in my life :)
> But yeah, if 'work' is the highest principle one has, these are just excuses for procrastination.
exactly! And even rhyming some other thread here, this might happen if “work” is procrastination for the life itself. I honestly feel myself here now: work figured out as process, but life… oh my I better go write some code.
It’s like you’re cornered: you’re like deer in the headlights concerned with “work”, if you’re not “productive”, you devalue yourself completely. It could happen if you chose work as your primary value long before you realized that the same patterns will lead you into the corner inside work itself.
It’s like running away from one world to another to another until there is no further escape. Then hopefully, you start to find the way back, because you have the Ariadne’s thread in your hands.
Good luck to us all :)
> But yeah, if 'work' is the highest principle one has, these are just excuses for procrastination.
exactly! And even rhyming some other thread here, this might happen if “work” is procrastination for the life itself. I honestly feel myself here now: work figured out as process, but life… oh my I better go write some code.
It’s like you’re cornered: you’re like deer in the headlights concerned with “work”, if you’re not “productive”, you devalue yourself completely. It could happen if you chose work as your primary value long before you realized that the same patterns will lead you into the corner inside work itself.
It’s like running away from one world to another to another until there is no further escape. Then hopefully, you start to find the way back, because you have the Ariadne’s thread in your hands.
Good luck to us all :)
sure, but it was the only thing paying at the time. so what choice did i have? my heart is on building my own project, but to do that i'd have to be independently wealthy, or save up at least 50k so that i can afford to be without an income for a year. at least i learned something so if i managed to focus on that i could get some motivation going.
Oh yeah! There are things that you "have" to do to fit a monoculture that are not fun.
The "action precedes motivation" idea is underrated. I've definitely found that once I take that first tiny step (open the file, write the first test, whatever), things start to flow. It's weirdly easy to forget that when you're stuck in that doom-scroll-procrastinate spiral.
> Action leads to motivation, not the other way around.
For me, this sounds a bit tautological. Of course the opposite of procrastination is action.
It’s similar to saying, “If you want to lose weight, just eat less.” It’s certainly true on a meta level, but very difficult for some people to implement.
For me, this sounds a bit tautological. Of course the opposite of procrastination is action.
It’s similar to saying, “If you want to lose weight, just eat less.” It’s certainly true on a meta level, but very difficult for some people to implement.
No - it’s aimed at people who say they can’t do x because they aren’t in the right headspace/feeling creative/they’re too tired, they will do it when inspiration strikes. People who are waiting for some uncontrollable muse before they finally write their novel, and waiting until they feel like a creative person to start taking drawing lessons, or waiting til the essay idea jumps fully formed into their head before they start drafting. That isn’t a description of all procrastination.
It’s about taking small steps to get the flywheel turning, not about “just doing it.” You need small wins to build up motivation for the bigger, more complicated tasks.
If you want to lose weight but don’t feel motivated, it might be because you associate getting started with a strict workout routine and highly restrictive dieting. But taking smaller steps in the right direction can spark motivation. From my own experience, I know I naturally start eating healthier as soon as I get back into running.
If you want to lose weight but don’t feel motivated, it might be because you associate getting started with a strict workout routine and highly restrictive dieting. But taking smaller steps in the right direction can spark motivation. From my own experience, I know I naturally start eating healthier as soon as I get back into running.
"If you want to lose weight, just eat less" is not as tautological as you may think. Many people don't actually know that if you just eat the same calories as someone 20 lbs lighter than you, you will eventually weigh 20 lbs lighter, that you don't need to "do" anything else to shed those 20 lbs.
This isn't really true, everyone has a different basal metabolic rate, and effectiveness with absorbing calories from food can vary as well. Even small differences can add up to large effects, the difference between being at net-zero, or having caloric surplus or deficit every day.
That said, in practice it may be reasonable advice on average, but there's also a problem where it's not very practical to eat the "same" calories as someone else, unless they are together with you all the time.
That said, in practice it may be reasonable advice on average, but there's also a problem where it's not very practical to eat the "same" calories as someone else, unless they are together with you all the time.
As someone with fast metabolism who struggled to gain weight: I get that, but at the same time, understanding that there's trial and error with your own body but is ultimately all about input and output does more good than saying "haha I just have fast/slow rate looool" as justification for not taking care of yourself.
They say we procrastinate when we feel anxious about the task we are supposed to be doing.
Before coding on the actual problem I usually start with a tiny refactoring of something that's related. That's my warming up sports before tackling the actual exercise. Works 100% for me.
I don't know why prestigious institutions like IEEE and Nature all have blogs to post fluff and opinion pieces today. Why do they need page views?
Procrastination is not a problem. The problem is being unhappy with procrastination.
I accept it as part of my life, because I believe it is an intuitive process that protects me from doing bad work.
There are times when I really have to get something done, and then I need to put pressure on myself. But mostly I have learned to listen to and respect my procrastination.
I accept it as part of my life, because I believe it is an intuitive process that protects me from doing bad work.
There are times when I really have to get something done, and then I need to put pressure on myself. But mostly I have learned to listen to and respect my procrastination.
Some people describe that as momentum preserving workflow.
I need something like that not for work... but for hobbies.
Maybe fighting it itself is a form of exercise. Maybe fighting it is an end in itself regardless if you got anything done. But not trying is the failure.
Make your own bed (?)
Ref: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pxBQLFLei70
Ref: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pxBQLFLei70
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I like to have phone with 30min countdown, this helps me keep sense of time. Sort of like pomodoro, but for a different purpose.
I read this to Procrastinate of course...
I am terribly suicidal because of my procrastination combined with no conscientiousness.
It is correct on self-esteem and procrastination being bidirectionally linked
I'm not addicted to procrastination. I can start any time I want to!
My goodness, a FAANG coaster is founding a tech startup -_-
Don't forget folks, Always Be Productive!
"Procrastinate later — there's always tomorrow!"
I’ll read this tomorrow
Procrastination is a sign that you don’t give a shit.
I've found this to be very true. A trick I found that made this easier for me is to leave a trivial task to start tomorrow with, often with notes to remind myself what to do. Ideally the trivial task is on the way to something bigger, not finishing something. That gets me into my editor, gets me running the code / tests / etc., and gives me a trivially easy way to get moving. Then the motivation kicks in and I can start moving for real.
The same approach helps me with tasks outside of software development, and even outside of work.