Kim Jong Il's Grandson Gives an Interview(blogs.wsj.com)
blogs.wsj.com
Kim Jong Il's Grandson Gives an Interview
http://blogs.wsj.com/korearealtime/2012/10/18/kim-jong-ils-grandson-gives-tv-interview/
57 comments
The key is that he looks and sounds like an American asian kid, which affects what you think he must have been saying. This talk about unification and peace is nothing remotely controversial. Both Israel and Iran, for example, espouse an interest in peace on one hand, but they edge toward war and have generals saying idiotic belligerent things on the other hand.
I doubt North Korea would show this domestically, but that doesn't mean they would find it unacceptable for export to other countries if it increases sympathy and brings on another round of aid. They have been alternating between provocations and pity for decades now...
I doubt North Korea would show this domestically, but that doesn't mean they would find it unacceptable for export to other countries if it increases sympathy and brings on another round of aid. They have been alternating between provocations and pity for decades now...
His safety is not at risk.
Kim Jong-nam is the father of Kim Han Sol and he's long been a critic of North Korean regime. He still lives with massive state handout safe and sound.
Kim Jong-nam is the father of Kim Han Sol and he's long been a critic of North Korean regime. He still lives with massive state handout safe and sound.
> Following a much-publicized botched attempt to secretly enter Japan using a fake passport and visit Disneyland in May 2001, he was thought to have fallen out of favor with his father.[0]
I'm surprised Kim Jong-nam's been left alone.
0: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-nam
I'm surprised Kim Jong-nam's been left alone.
0: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-nam
Could it be that some of the propaganda we hear about North Korea is propaganda!?
Consider that at the time he was the heir apparent. I doubt anyone would've dared touch him at that time.
Ordinary North Koreans wouldn't hear about this unless the North Korean government allows it to be published, so as long as he doesn't go around doing stuff that cause direct domestic problems for the regime, the only reason they'd have for going after him or his son at this point would be a personal vendetta.
If they were to go back and start walking around Pyongyang criticizing the regime to ordinary people or otherwise engaging stirring up domestic trouble, sure.
Ordinary North Koreans wouldn't hear about this unless the North Korean government allows it to be published, so as long as he doesn't go around doing stuff that cause direct domestic problems for the regime, the only reason they'd have for going after him or his son at this point would be a personal vendetta.
If they were to go back and start walking around Pyongyang criticizing the regime to ordinary people or otherwise engaging stirring up domestic trouble, sure.
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He's really composed and well-spoken for a 17 year old, and I'm not just talking about his English fluency. I was also impressed by how mature he sounded when talking about his future plans; taking things step-by-step, and wanting to volunteer and become a humanitarian worker before working on uniting Korea and contributing to world peace.
I don't really know where my opinion falls with this interview. The young man seems to be cognizant of his family's wrong doing, but as some have said this could all just be a media stunt.
What I do know is that this young man has inherited a horrific past, and if what he said in the interview is true he is attempting to make up for it. That is all any of us can do. People are born into situations, and that isn't anyones fault. It's what we do with that situation that matters.
I hope for his sake, and North Korea's sake that he is able to follow through with the goals and dreams that he shared.
What I do know is that this young man has inherited a horrific past, and if what he said in the interview is true he is attempting to make up for it. That is all any of us can do. People are born into situations, and that isn't anyones fault. It's what we do with that situation that matters.
I hope for his sake, and North Korea's sake that he is able to follow through with the goals and dreams that he shared.
If this isn't a media setup of some sort, you can bet that it will be pretty soon.
I'm going to take a wild guess that this kid will be the following things by the end of 2013: TED speaker, bestselling author, Anderson Cooper guest, a regular fixture on magazine "Most Intriguing People of 2012/2013" lists; short-liat candidate for Time Magazine's Person of the Year.
I don't mean to be cynical, but we can all smell the media frenzy about to descend on him. And, while I applaud his speaking out against the horrors of his family dynasty, I have to keep in mind that a) he's been living a luxurious, sheltered existence in Macau on the ill-gotten gains that dynasty secured, and b) he has virtually nothing to lose by going public, as his father was disinherited from the dynastic succession a few years ago. (One wonders if he wouldn't be toeing the Kim party line, were he the next heir apparent to the Supreme Leadership).
All of that being said, I do share your sincere hope that he can, in some way, be a catalyst for change and improvement in the conditions of the North Korean people. He does seem to be sincere in his desire to effect change, and as such, I am forced to shelve my cynicism if he has any hope whatsoever of being an agent for that change.
I'm going to take a wild guess that this kid will be the following things by the end of 2013: TED speaker, bestselling author, Anderson Cooper guest, a regular fixture on magazine "Most Intriguing People of 2012/2013" lists; short-liat candidate for Time Magazine's Person of the Year.
I don't mean to be cynical, but we can all smell the media frenzy about to descend on him. And, while I applaud his speaking out against the horrors of his family dynasty, I have to keep in mind that a) he's been living a luxurious, sheltered existence in Macau on the ill-gotten gains that dynasty secured, and b) he has virtually nothing to lose by going public, as his father was disinherited from the dynastic succession a few years ago. (One wonders if he wouldn't be toeing the Kim party line, were he the next heir apparent to the Supreme Leadership).
All of that being said, I do share your sincere hope that he can, in some way, be a catalyst for change and improvement in the conditions of the North Korean people. He does seem to be sincere in his desire to effect change, and as such, I am forced to shelve my cynicism if he has any hope whatsoever of being an agent for that change.
Kim Han Sol? Seriously, Lil' Kim the Illest was a huge movie buff, I wonder if that played a part in his naming?
He speaks English quite a bit better than his interviewer. He sounds like an American.
He speaks English quite a bit better than his interviewer. He sounds like an American.
I too noticed that his English is absolutely perfect. If I met him at a coffee shop here I'd assume he was born and raised in the US.
Its equally interesting that Elisabeth Rehn's English is so heavily accented, as I have a general perception that Europeans are generally excellent at English (I've met several Germans and Swedes that I couldn't hear any accent on at all), especially someone of her background.
Definitely off topic, but interesting to note. Just shows how my perceptions and assumptions can be very wrong. Great interview.
Its equally interesting that Elisabeth Rehn's English is so heavily accented, as I have a general perception that Europeans are generally excellent at English (I've met several Germans and Swedes that I couldn't hear any accent on at all), especially someone of her background.
Definitely off topic, but interesting to note. Just shows how my perceptions and assumptions can be very wrong. Great interview.
Accents are complicated, but as a general rule, you end up stuck with whatever your brain has learned by age 14. Stephen Pinker has a story about Henry Kissinger and his brother moving to the US just before and after that threshold, one having a German accent and the other doesn't.
Most foreigners never lose their accent, while children of non-native speakers learn the local language without their parents' accent. Natives of Germanic languages, as someone else pointed out, tend to be better at English than natives of Romance languages. And some native Greeks can speak with such a perfect Spanish accent that when their vocabulary lags behind they sound slightly aphasic (until they tell you that they are actually learning the language).
It also depends education: Portugal and Greece used subtitles on tv whereas France, Spain and Germany usually dub foreign films. This makes a difference between the students from those nationalities one encounters, say, in Britain.
I know of a Japanese whose Spanish, learned in a couple of years as an adult, has far less Japanese accent than his English, learned and practiced since primary school.
And now that I'm at it: as with the deaf/mute confusion, when teaching, or just speaking, to a non-native speaker, remember that, rather than having a sticky tongue, they might just not be able to hear the sounds you are saying. This causes much frustration because you repeat the same word ten times, assuming that they can hear the difference, but they cannot. The solution is to point out explicitly in which sound the difference occurs.
Apologies for the dogmatic speech, it's the foreign-sounding generalisation I have a general perception that Europeans are generally excellent at English that triggered it :-)
Most foreigners never lose their accent, while children of non-native speakers learn the local language without their parents' accent. Natives of Germanic languages, as someone else pointed out, tend to be better at English than natives of Romance languages. And some native Greeks can speak with such a perfect Spanish accent that when their vocabulary lags behind they sound slightly aphasic (until they tell you that they are actually learning the language).
It also depends education: Portugal and Greece used subtitles on tv whereas France, Spain and Germany usually dub foreign films. This makes a difference between the students from those nationalities one encounters, say, in Britain.
I know of a Japanese whose Spanish, learned in a couple of years as an adult, has far less Japanese accent than his English, learned and practiced since primary school.
And now that I'm at it: as with the deaf/mute confusion, when teaching, or just speaking, to a non-native speaker, remember that, rather than having a sticky tongue, they might just not be able to hear the sounds you are saying. This causes much frustration because you repeat the same word ten times, assuming that they can hear the difference, but they cannot. The solution is to point out explicitly in which sound the difference occurs.
Apologies for the dogmatic speech, it's the foreign-sounding generalisation I have a general perception that Europeans are generally excellent at English that triggered it :-)
"Stephen Pinker has a story about Henry Kissinger and his brother moving to the US just before and after that threshold, one having a German accent and the other doesn't."
It could also be that one was more motivated to change the accent, or otherwise got more practice, than the other.
But never mind that possibility, because Stephen Pinker is a fundamentalist about nativism.
It could also be that one was more motivated to change the accent, or otherwise got more practice, than the other.
But never mind that possibility, because Stephen Pinker is a fundamentalist about nativism.
Thanks for the response. You make many really good points that I agree with, and many that I had not considered.
My accent is labile. It changes based on where I am in the world and who I'm talking to. This can be embarrassing sometimes but it comes in handy when learning to speak new languages. I'm well passed 14 btw.
> you end up stuck with whatever your brain has learned by age 14
I very strongly doubt this is true and I must object because this holds up the old alleged "fact" that at a certain age "you're just too old" to learn something new and I detest this with a passion.
Off the top of my head, Gary Marcus' "Guitar Zero" does an excellent job of de-bunking this.
I very strongly doubt this is true and I must object because this holds up the old alleged "fact" that at a certain age "you're just too old" to learn something new and I detest this with a passion.
Off the top of my head, Gary Marcus' "Guitar Zero" does an excellent job of de-bunking this.
This is a fact for many brain functions like vision for example. If you are born with a ocular birth defect and your eyes are not surgically corrected early enough after birth you will be blind for life.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_period
We were talking accents and ability to learn new languages or skills here, not birth defects - the one doesn't have anything to do with the other unless it is a form of direct speech impediment....
I mentioned the birth defect as simply an example of how they discovered there is a critical developmental period for vision.
As far as critical developmental periods for people without birth defects, there are many accounts of feral children that were never able to learn speech. There really is evidence for a critical developmental period for speech functions.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_period#section_1
As far as critical developmental periods for people without birth defects, there are many accounts of feral children that were never able to learn speech. There really is evidence for a critical developmental period for speech functions.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_period#section_1
Children who attend "expensive" international schools abroad from an early age often end up with very American accents.
Yes, or British, depending on if it's a British or American international school.
When I lived in Thailand I met lots of Thai people who spoke perfect unaccented English for this reason. Whether they had an American or English accent depended on if they went to Bangkok Patana School (British) or International School Bangkok (American).
When I lived in Thailand I met lots of Thai people who spoke perfect unaccented English for this reason. Whether they had an American or English accent depended on if they went to Bangkok Patana School (British) or International School Bangkok (American).
Why is speaking in an American accent considered a mark of English mastery? I've always thought of good grammar as the only meaningful measure.
You make a good point, American English isn't the 'correct' English, but its the one that my American ears can best grade. I'd be terrible at picking up accents from different neighborhoods in London.
Today most children in Finland learn English early on at school, but that certainly wasn't the case for someone born in 1935. I'm just guessing, but she's probably picked up the language later in life. Also, a Finn of her generation didn't hear English on TV all the time and didn't play video games as a kid :)
As a side note, I know a lot of people that are excellent at English but have an accent. I don't think all people make it a priority to get rid of their accent (or to gain an accent), especially if they don't live in an English speaking country.
As a side note, I know a lot of people that are excellent at English but have an accent. I don't think all people make it a priority to get rid of their accent (or to gain an accent), especially if they don't live in an English speaking country.
Finnish people often have a very heavy accent because they have a non germanic language.
Elisabeth Rehn is a Swedish-speaking Finn (just like everyone's favorite kernel and DVCS creator). One person in the YouTube comments stated that her Finnish is not much better than her English.
As a Finnish-speaking Finn I'd say that one person was exaggerating a bit. Yes, you can hear her first language is Swedish, but it's not that bad.
Yes, his English is great. Much better than my Spanish or Korean.
No, it's very possible to never lose your accent. I have German/Swiss landlords who have lived in the US for decades, and they still struggle with English, as well as Southeast Asian and Mexican folks who do the same. I'm sure I'd be the same way if I up and moved to Russia, for example.
No, it's very possible to never lose your accent. I have German/Swiss landlords who have lived in the US for decades, and they still struggle with English, as well as Southeast Asian and Mexican folks who do the same. I'm sure I'd be the same way if I up and moved to Russia, for example.
> I've met several Germans and Swedes that I couldn't hear any accent on at all
Then you haven't met the multitude of Germans who do not dare speak a word of English and would never watch or read anything in English and buy the German version of video games despite being taught English as their first foreign language in school for no less than 6 years.
Yes, there are a few exceptions amongst the younger ones who watch movies and TV shows in English and typically they go to the other extreme and are fluent speakers but they are rare.
Then you haven't met the multitude of Germans who do not dare speak a word of English and would never watch or read anything in English and buy the German version of video games despite being taught English as their first foreign language in school for no less than 6 years.
Yes, there are a few exceptions amongst the younger ones who watch movies and TV shows in English and typically they go to the other extreme and are fluent speakers but they are rare.
Indeed, every German and Scandinavian I've ever met had a noticeable accent when speaking english, even if their grammar and vocabulary was flawless (which it often is).
I'm afraid not. Kim Hansol (or Hansol Kim) is a common Korean name.
He's 17 years old, studying in Bosnia and uses social media:
> In various posted messages on YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter, he expressed guilt for his family’s role in the suffering of the North Korean people.
> In various posted messages on YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter, he expressed guilt for his family’s role in the suffering of the North Korean people.
So what does he plan to do about that?
Say European-sounding things in an American-sounding accent and mention South Korean friends often, then help the North Korean regime garner more international aid in the times that they are not launching missiles in the direction of neighbors.
Sorry - what I meant to say is 'volunteer and help the people of his country'.
Sorry - what I meant to say is 'volunteer and help the people of his country'.
His ability to speak English is not exactly the most important thing here... Lots of people can speak English, especially those coming from affluent families.
Yes, he probably went to an international school in Macau, any kid in this case would be fluent in English.
If you look at the comments on the article, they are 4 out of 6 Korean propaganda. (at the time I wrote this comment)
North Koreans seem to like studying overseas in off-the-beaten-track places. I'm from Malta - Kim Jong Il was there to learn English once. It's a tourist mecca now, but was a bit quieter then.
I only listened for a second but also was impressed with his English
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He seems like a very articulate and positive young man.
He sounds like he's from southern california.
I'm surprised people don't immediately recognize this for what it almost certainly is: a calculated attempt by the North Korean government to manipulate the media and foreign governments. Perhaps the word manipulate is a bit strong because the goal may very well be to improve relations, but to think that this wasn't vetted and planned by the North Korean leadership is a bit silly. The family wouldn't go to great lengths to keep a low profile for so long only to have a 17-year old randomly give an interview like this - and risk being cutoff financially or even barred from the country/arrested etc. The answer to his question about the plight of the poor people in his country being removed is a huge clue that this is what is going on.
Personally I applaud this effort and I hope we see more of it - and it would be great for this young man to go to North Korea and work as a diplomat or something. But people should see this and future actions from him for what they are - carefully crafted maneuvers by the North Korean government.
Personally I applaud this effort and I hope we see more of it - and it would be great for this young man to go to North Korea and work as a diplomat or something. But people should see this and future actions from him for what they are - carefully crafted maneuvers by the North Korean government.
It's the opposite, actually. Kim Han-Sol and his family are considered enemies of North Korea. North Korea has tried to, and (according to my friend who closely follows north korea) is still trying to kill Kim Jong Nam, this guy's father. This could be a vetted and planned attempt by his family to stay very public so such an assassination is a lot harder.
The Swedish text-over does briefly mention that he was contacted by the North Korean security service prior to this interview, but doesn't expand on it.
I'm not sure how this can be construed as "a calculated attempt by the North Korean government to manipulate the media and foreign governments". The kid looks and dresses like a South Korean boy band member and just called his relatives dictators...seems to me that doesn't do anything other than get egg all over the North Korean government's face.
The interviewer introduces the word dictator. He goes along, but doesn't actually make any criticisms - pretty much all he says of substance is that he wants peace and unification, which are not particularly 'South Korean' ideas. If a similar film had been made with the current leader 20 years ago, I wouldn't be surprised at all.
I feel like they understand that the majority of the world wants to see something that they can consider to be a benevolent personality come into power in North Korea. I wonder how they will take advantage of that?
> He’s clearly an articulate, balanced and confident young man, completely at ease in English.
Why is everyone so surprised that his English is excellent and that he is very confident? His clan pretty much owns and runs a whole country and rulers and their families generally have everything available to them, in every dictatorship all around the world since the beginning of time. Including the best modern education available.
If anything, it is surprising how outspoken he is against the regime and thereby his own family and the entitlement that allowed him to be where he is now but then again, "quod licet iovi, non licet bovi" and sons typical hold a special value anyway.
Why is everyone so surprised that his English is excellent and that he is very confident? His clan pretty much owns and runs a whole country and rulers and their families generally have everything available to them, in every dictatorship all around the world since the beginning of time. Including the best modern education available.
If anything, it is surprising how outspoken he is against the regime and thereby his own family and the entitlement that allowed him to be where he is now but then again, "quod licet iovi, non licet bovi" and sons typical hold a special value anyway.
Have you seen the film "The King's Speech"?
King George VI must have led a deprived and impoverished life to be so insecure and inarticulate in public. ;)
In a smaller arena, some of the CEO's I have worked under have shown signs in insecurity also. So, I don't think confidence necessarily comes from power and wealth.
King George VI must have led a deprived and impoverished life to be so insecure and inarticulate in public. ;)
In a smaller arena, some of the CEO's I have worked under have shown signs in insecurity also. So, I don't think confidence necessarily comes from power and wealth.
He is not saying that he must have these attributes given his background, only that it is not a surprise if he has them.
Where did he actually speak against the regime? It seemed to me that the interviewer spoke intermittently against the regime but not that he did.
Is anybody else excited that the future hope of North Korea is one letter away from being called Kim 'Han Solo'?? Awesome.
"Future hope" is a bit of an exaggeration. He's the son of the current leaders - Kim Jong-Un - older half-brother, who was passed over as the heir of King Jong-Il, possibly in part due to being too westernized, and who has lived in exile for years. Any realistic prospect of Kim Han-Sol playing any leading role in North Korea would hinge on very substantial political changes in the regime, or on Kim Jong-Un losing the support of the army.
And in response to "propaganda comments" on the article, as a Korean American I know that the strongest sentiment in Korea is still towards unification. I've never understood that (and still don't, to some degree) but watching this video gives me a glimpse of that. When I hear this kid speak, I see me. It leaves me unexpectedly hopeful for the future.