Tell HN: I probably spend more on piracy than if I just paid for content
414 comments
What you’re describing is data hoarding. I pirate a ton too, but you know what I do with a movie or TV show after I’ve watched it?
I delete it. Poof, gone. But it’s still in the most important dataset I have. My memory. To help with the metadata of my own memory, I write down a list of the films I’ve seen. I only keep the movies I really love and want to rewatch (Robocop). That TV show I just finished that was great but I won’t rewatch. Boom, gonzo.
Your piracy is an excuse for data hoarding, which is a problem.
I delete it. Poof, gone. But it’s still in the most important dataset I have. My memory. To help with the metadata of my own memory, I write down a list of the films I’ve seen. I only keep the movies I really love and want to rewatch (Robocop). That TV show I just finished that was great but I won’t rewatch. Boom, gonzo.
Your piracy is an excuse for data hoarding, which is a problem.
After all, if you want to watch it again -- you can always pirate it again!
(The one complication is that I pirate using private BitTorrent tracker sites where I need to do some amount of seeding to stay on good terms, under conditions that vary from site to site, and can be hard to keep track of as I try to recover storage space).
But yeah, I'd say the cost of OP is not in the pirating, it's in the hoarding.
(The one complication is that I pirate using private BitTorrent tracker sites where I need to do some amount of seeding to stay on good terms, under conditions that vary from site to site, and can be hard to keep track of as I try to recover storage space).
But yeah, I'd say the cost of OP is not in the pirating, it's in the hoarding.
You say that, but a lot of older shows become increasingly hard to get copies of the longer from the air date you get (legally or pirated)
I have not had that experience as a pirater of TV shows, I can have pretty much always been able to get anything I ever wanted that I ever could before, through the sources I use.
But certainly there is no guarantee, that is true.
(I don't use usenet as a source, myself).
But certainly there is no guarantee, that is true.
(I don't use usenet as a source, myself).
Yeah, it's probably a natural effect of using usenet with its built in retention. Definitely once you get past 10 years (typical retention is ~3000 days), things drop off a lot because no one re-uploads them.
In what sense is data hoarding a problem?
I’ve only ever heard the term used in jest, at least partially, and in particular not ever with the same severity that actual hoarding receives.
I’ve only ever heard the term used in jest, at least partially, and in particular not ever with the same severity that actual hoarding receives.
[deleted]
Well it's costing this guy $45 a month apparently.
$45 a month is a pretty cheap vice as far as things go, though.
You could easily be spending $45 a month just on streaming services.
You could easily be spending $45 a month just on streaming services.
Or he could spend $10 on the tracker, $10 to run a normal computer without 30 drives, and still watch all the same stuff for half the price.
Maybe there are better usenet services that don't get holes punched in their collections as much, but generally on usenet you get missing episodes over time.
My interpretation of your original post was that you were saying spending $45 a month on this project illustrated that he has a problem.
Is that accurate?
How does the fact that he could be saving money support that?
Is that accurate?
How does the fact that he could be saving money support that?
My interpretation of OPs post is that they felt they had a problem. I assumed that problem was the amount of money/time spent installing and upkeeping those drives.
I have a much longer list of content that I want to watch on streaming services - and never care about rewatching - that I don’t even bother with pirating anymore.
As far as $45. I spend less than that on streaming services.
- Netflix $7 (T-mobile discount)
- HBO Max - Free - bundled with AT&T fiber
- Amazon Prime Video - I would have Amazon Prime anyway. But let’s attribute $6.00/month to it.
- AppleTV+ - it’s part of a bundle. But let’s attribute $5/month to it.
- Disney/Hulu no ads bundle - $14
- Paramount Plus - $10/month - no ads
Besides, I travel a lot and it’s much more convenient to use streaming (unlimited data) than trying to maintain hardware. My Plex server has been down for a year.
Admittedly- my wife and I do have the AMC Stubs+ movie pass ($50) because we actually enjoy going to the movies as part of date night.
As far as $45. I spend less than that on streaming services.
- Netflix $7 (T-mobile discount)
- HBO Max - Free - bundled with AT&T fiber
- Amazon Prime Video - I would have Amazon Prime anyway. But let’s attribute $6.00/month to it.
- AppleTV+ - it’s part of a bundle. But let’s attribute $5/month to it.
- Disney/Hulu no ads bundle - $14
- Paramount Plus - $10/month - no ads
Besides, I travel a lot and it’s much more convenient to use streaming (unlimited data) than trying to maintain hardware. My Plex server has been down for a year.
Admittedly- my wife and I do have the AMC Stubs+ movie pass ($50) because we actually enjoy going to the movies as part of date night.
So you have different preferences than OP. OP mUst HAvE a Pr0Blem!!1!
According to the numbers you just posted, you are spending 42 a month on streaming services which, while it is strictly less than 45, I wouldn't say it's meaningfully less than 45.
What point are you trying to make?
What point are you trying to make?
> Besides, I travel a lot and it’s much more convenient to use streaming (unlimited data) than trying to maintain hardware. My Plex server has been down for a year.
That server does a lot of other stuff. Controls zigbee devices, runs a small intranet search, handles internet archiving workloads...
The hard drives are the main power cost though.
The hard drives are the main power cost though.
How many drives do you have in your server? Or do you just have very high power costs? I thought drives consume ~7-9w unless they're very high RPM. Maybe consider upgrading to a few high density drives? Hard drive costs have corrected recently after the Chia craze last year.
My estimate is that it's idling at ~250w. I'm admittedly fudging the details a bit, right now archive-team-warrior is using a lot of CPU because it's archiving telegram, and that's pushing the number up.
Calculating it again the actual number is a bit lower than that, and it wasn't in US dollars.
Calculating it again the actual number is a bit lower than that, and it wasn't in US dollars.
With a Kill A Watt (or similar, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_A_Watt) meter, you don't have to estimate power usage, you can measure the actual power usage.
I've got one, but it's being used for other stuff.
[deleted]
Like all "problems", it's only a problem if it has negative consequences for you. Drinking alcohol isn't a problem until it is. Collecting old newspapers isn't a problem until it is. Hoarding data isn't a problem until it is.
This post seems a bit tongue-in-cheek, but if it's costing the OP more money than they'd like to spend on it, then it is a problem. Or maybe it's not.
This post seems a bit tongue-in-cheek, but if it's costing the OP more money than they'd like to spend on it, then it is a problem. Or maybe it's not.
It's not, I'm living well within my means. If I was concerned about the money I could probably spend more of my time to find the content on sketchy streaming sites like putlocker.
[re-parenting this comment under OP]
I don't think what you were describing is a "problem" at all. And it looks like you don't view at it as a problem, either. Not sure why so many of the replies in this article are trying to interpret your post as some kind of call for help.
I hate the phrase "Data Hoarding" because the word hoarding has negative connotations that don't apply to collecting digital media. When you look at actual hoarders, their homes are disgusting, filled with trash, and not navigable. On the other hand, there are no negative effects of data "hoarding", besides maybe the cost of buying and powering hard drives. Most hobbies have monetary costs and don't carry negative connotations. It's no more of a problem than stamp collecting. We don't call people Stamp Hoarders.
I don't think what you were describing is a "problem" at all. And it looks like you don't view at it as a problem, either. Not sure why so many of the replies in this article are trying to interpret your post as some kind of call for help.
I hate the phrase "Data Hoarding" because the word hoarding has negative connotations that don't apply to collecting digital media. When you look at actual hoarders, their homes are disgusting, filled with trash, and not navigable. On the other hand, there are no negative effects of data "hoarding", besides maybe the cost of buying and powering hard drives. Most hobbies have monetary costs and don't carry negative connotations. It's no more of a problem than stamp collecting. We don't call people Stamp Hoarders.
Even data "hoarding" can be a problem for someone if it begins to consume their life. Sure, the physical consequences aren't as severe as hoarding old junk in your house, but it could possibly become a physical and mental problem for someone. Sure sounds like that is not the case for the OP, as it all sounded like a bit of a joke to begin with. But I'm sure you could find someone for whom data hoarding is a real problem that negatively affects their life if they feel compelled to constantly seek out stuff to archive and begin filling their house with storage media.
I would say it would have to be costing enough money or time to be negatively impacting OP's life before we could accurately call it a problem.
It's one thing to be over budget for it, but the budget just may not be realistic for the project and cost expectations have to be adjusted or the project downscaled. That's not a problem really it's just a normal part of budgeting.
The problem comes in if OP were missing work to work on this thing, or neglecting personal relationships. Or so over budget it was putting them financially in the red, leading to risky loans to pay for or borrowing from friends/family or whatever else.
Problems are things that have real negative externalities, imo.
It's one thing to be over budget for it, but the budget just may not be realistic for the project and cost expectations have to be adjusted or the project downscaled. That's not a problem really it's just a normal part of budgeting.
The problem comes in if OP were missing work to work on this thing, or neglecting personal relationships. Or so over budget it was putting them financially in the red, leading to risky loans to pay for or borrowing from friends/family or whatever else.
Problems are things that have real negative externalities, imo.
When it causes undesired effects like spending more on hardware than you probably should.
> spending more on hardware than you probably should
Should is a tricky word. What is OPs income? What's the rest of their budget look like. What standards are you applying to their spending habits? What hardships do your models forecast for OP as a result of their hobby?
If you know what OP should do, presumably you have this data and can provide your numbers.
Should is a tricky word. What is OPs income? What's the rest of their budget look like. What standards are you applying to their spending habits? What hardships do your models forecast for OP as a result of their hobby?
If you know what OP should do, presumably you have this data and can provide your numbers.
Using a lot of resources so that one person has a bunch of digital information they'll never use or see again. It's a bit of a waste don't you think?
I'd argue the only problematic data hoarders are the ones who've gone put of the way to monetize it (corporates). They tend to collect too much, literally sell to some of the most problematic groups on the planet (whether they realize it or not).
I've yet to see a pirate who isn't basically a library.
For the record, I don't require libraries to necessarily have to play nice with the Publishing Industrial Complex to be legitimate.
Long live the Signal! May it spread far and wide! Fnord!
I've yet to see a pirate who isn't basically a library.
For the record, I don't require libraries to necessarily have to play nice with the Publishing Industrial Complex to be legitimate.
Long live the Signal! May it spread far and wide! Fnord!
I rewatch things all the time. If I’m doing side work at night and just want something on the background I’ll put on a movie or show that I’ve seen before.
Beyond that, hard drives are cheap! I have a single 18 TB disk in my main computer that runs Plex. It lets me and my kids watch content from anywhere with an Internet connection.
18 TB hard drives are about $300.
Beyond that, hard drives are cheap! I have a single 18 TB disk in my main computer that runs Plex. It lets me and my kids watch content from anywhere with an Internet connection.
18 TB hard drives are about $300.
A single terabyte can hold at least 500 hours of 1080p video. A few terabytes is plenty to keep a large library of rewatchable content AND download new stuff frequently (and delete it when you need room)
After 4tb dlof data I started to get weirded out by running too big disks.
Resilvering might take ages. So long that raid2 might be mandatory.
I haven't calculated the right risk factor but I still only use 4tb disks
Resilvering might take ages. So long that raid2 might be mandatory.
I haven't calculated the right risk factor but I still only use 4tb disks
Eh I recently switched to two 14tb disks of different manufacturers. One is usually in standby and once a week I do a rsync to it. Btrfs on both for checksums.
Good enough for me, I assume it's way more likely that a PSU failure fries them all, in which case no variant of raid would have helped anyways. For important stuff I have an off-site Backup, but that's only around 800gb anyways and growing a few gb per year.
Good enough for me, I assume it's way more likely that a PSU failure fries them all, in which case no variant of raid would have helped anyways. For important stuff I have an off-site Backup, but that's only around 800gb anyways and growing a few gb per year.
A rebuild of a 160tb raid 6 array of 12 18tb disks for me takes around 3.3 days.
> Beyond that, hard drives are cheap! I have a single 18 TB disk
Fair warning: It is very dangerous to make statements like this in a public forum like this.
You run the risk of someone spotting it and making a seemingly-innocent reply along the lines of, "Oh, you should at LEAST have TWO disks set up as a mirror so you don't lose all your movies when (not if, but when) the disk dies." And then someone else will say, "LOL u noob, RAID not a backup!" Another participant will assure you that no data is safe unless it's stored at on at least a 5-disk ZFS array. And then someone else will jump in to point out that even ZFS is not safe if you're not running ECC memory. And course you can't just have ONE of these ECC-enabled 5-disk ZFS-breathing monsters, because every component ASIDE from the disks is a single point of failure, so you'd better have TWO just to be safe. Which means you'll need a UPS because sudden power loses are _awesome_ if you like having your platters scribbled all over by a browned-out disk controller. And what exactly is your disaster recovery plan in the event of a fire or flood, gotta have some infra running in good health off-site in case something like that happens. And so on.
Of course if you dig far enough into these admonitions and suggestions, the good news is that you won't have the time to watch any of those movies.
Fair warning: It is very dangerous to make statements like this in a public forum like this.
You run the risk of someone spotting it and making a seemingly-innocent reply along the lines of, "Oh, you should at LEAST have TWO disks set up as a mirror so you don't lose all your movies when (not if, but when) the disk dies." And then someone else will say, "LOL u noob, RAID not a backup!" Another participant will assure you that no data is safe unless it's stored at on at least a 5-disk ZFS array. And then someone else will jump in to point out that even ZFS is not safe if you're not running ECC memory. And course you can't just have ONE of these ECC-enabled 5-disk ZFS-breathing monsters, because every component ASIDE from the disks is a single point of failure, so you'd better have TWO just to be safe. Which means you'll need a UPS because sudden power loses are _awesome_ if you like having your platters scribbled all over by a browned-out disk controller. And what exactly is your disaster recovery plan in the event of a fire or flood, gotta have some infra running in good health off-site in case something like that happens. And so on.
Of course if you dig far enough into these admonitions and suggestions, the good news is that you won't have the time to watch any of those movies.
My only fear is that your absolutely fantastic comment is too far down the tree to get the attention it deserves.
Thank god I have an ECC memory stick and a mirrored/striped 4-disk ZFS array.
Weight off my shoulders!
Weight off my shoulders!
[deleted]
> data hoarding, which is a problem.
Data hoarding is not a problem. It's a hobby.
Everyone needs a hobby, most hobbies cost money.
Traveling? Cost money.
Woodworking? Cost money.
Photography? Cost money.
Biking? Cost money.
Gaming? Cost money (+ way more time).
Data hoarding is just a hobby like others. Plus data hoarding can have great value, if you choose to hoard good content.
Data hoarding is not a problem. It's a hobby.
Everyone needs a hobby, most hobbies cost money.
Traveling? Cost money.
Woodworking? Cost money.
Photography? Cost money.
Biking? Cost money.
Gaming? Cost money (+ way more time).
Data hoarding is just a hobby like others. Plus data hoarding can have great value, if you choose to hoard good content.
Any hobby can turn into a problem. I'm quick to judge the data hoarders, because I absolutely do not consider myself one, but it can absolutely be a benign hobby. That being said, a 45$ a month electricity bill directly related to the hard drives, that's a lot of dough for making a number go up.
Hard drives can be turned to sleep when they are not being accessed. If you do that, the electricity cost will be very low.
There is a believe that this will damage the hard drives. I am not sure how valid it is.
There is a believe that this will damage the hard drives. I am not sure how valid it is.
This seems to suggests that data hoarders mainly derive their satisfaction from actually filling up a hard drive. For me, the satisfaction is from having instant access to organized libraries of music and video of generally far higher fidelity than you can stream with current technology. There are currently no streaming services that can stream UHD 4k movies at a quality that is close to even a normal 1080p blu ray never mind an actual UHD blu ray. I'm very into film and the difference in video and sound quality, which most people will not notice or care about, is pretty significant to me. An uncompressed BR rip is 30-100 GB so even a fairly curated library can quickly outgrow drive space that most people couldn't fathom a sane person using.
I have probably filled at least 60TB of drives in the past year alone since my ISP has been ignoring data caps, and that is besides the large amount that IS deleted, as I do not archive anything that's been lossily compressed after being ripped unless a higher quality version does not publicly exist.
I "hoard" TOSEC libraries for every conceivable console and consumer computer system from ~1970 up to the PS3, but don't archive PC games past the DOS era, because Steam exists as a better service than I can provide for myself, so I use that. There is no equivalent service for music or film or Amiga games.
I have probably filled at least 60TB of drives in the past year alone since my ISP has been ignoring data caps, and that is besides the large amount that IS deleted, as I do not archive anything that's been lossily compressed after being ripped unless a higher quality version does not publicly exist.
I "hoard" TOSEC libraries for every conceivable console and consumer computer system from ~1970 up to the PS3, but don't archive PC games past the DOS era, because Steam exists as a better service than I can provide for myself, so I use that. There is no equivalent service for music or film or Amiga games.
Same. I keep the previous episode of a show until i get the next, to remind me what shows im watching and where im up to, but typically dont hang onto anything. These days the cost of downloading something again is less than the cost of hanging onto it just in case i maybe want to rewatch (usually years later).
Good thing you have all those "data hoarders" to leech off of when you wanna download something tho...
Great that they are so obsessive. I think its fair if you seed enough and then get off and delete.
He's using usenet, I highly doubt he's seeding the data he holds
He's on usenet, not torrenting. No need to keep or seed anything. OP is hoarding and attributing negative consequences of his own decision to a concept itself.
And who do you think reuploads stuff after DMCA/NTD takedowns?
Im aware some people are busy hoarding data and providing it back to the ecosystem in these cases, but I fail to understand why or how the cost of this personal decision is in any way related to the cost of piracy, or why someone with this hobby would feel the need to complain about it, or publicly associate these costs with piracy itself. That’s illogical.
It’s like mirroring Wikipedia on S3 and then publicly stating or even complaining that using Wikipedia costs hundreds of dollars.
It’s like mirroring Wikipedia on S3 and then publicly stating or even complaining that using Wikipedia costs hundreds of dollars.
My copy of wikipedia is less than 100GB at the moment.
Okay? And how is that relevant to the core issue at hand... hoarding all of this data is your own personal decision and has nothing to do with piracy in itself. That's the issue. You are obviously free to do whatever you want, but hoarding data and then associating the cost of the hoarding with the source of the data is totally illogical.
Trying to one-up me on some stupid explanatory comparison makes me wonder if you are not simply deflecting responsibility off yourself and actually do hoard pathologically
Trying to one-up me on some stupid explanatory comparison makes me wonder if you are not simply deflecting responsibility off yourself and actually do hoard pathologically
I'm not complaining about the costs associated with this. I'm living well within my means. If I was concerned about the money I could probably spend more of my time to find the content on sketchy streaming sites like putlocker.
I'm not sure why so many of the replies in this article are trying to interpret my post as some kind of call for help.
My point was that piracy is a service problem.
I'm not sure why so many of the replies in this article are trying to interpret my post as some kind of call for help.
My point was that piracy is a service problem.
Again.. You are obviously free to do whatever you want, but hoarding data and then associating the source of the data with the cost of your data hoarding is totally illogical.
Your personal expenses for hoarding data, or the practice of hoarding data, have nil correlation to piracy itself.
To add to this at this point,
> Streaming services still have significant service problems that need to be addressed.
This connection is irrational as well - the name "streaming services" already implies that content is being streamed for viewing and not downloaded for storage.
If you are under a different assumption, or concerning other issues with streaming services, yes, piracy might be a service problem, but on the other hand, there are options available to actually buy and download content that you can also store.
Really, these associations you are seeing are incredibly irrational and this might be a contributing factor to people assuming this would be a call for help. I do not assume it is, data hoarding is not necessarily a problem in itself, but that doesn't make your invalid associations any more valid.
Your personal expenses for hoarding data, or the practice of hoarding data, have nil correlation to piracy itself.
To add to this at this point,
> Streaming services still have significant service problems that need to be addressed.
This connection is irrational as well - the name "streaming services" already implies that content is being streamed for viewing and not downloaded for storage.
If you are under a different assumption, or concerning other issues with streaming services, yes, piracy might be a service problem, but on the other hand, there are options available to actually buy and download content that you can also store.
Really, these associations you are seeing are incredibly irrational and this might be a contributing factor to people assuming this would be a call for help. I do not assume it is, data hoarding is not necessarily a problem in itself, but that doesn't make your invalid associations any more valid.
>Your personal expenses for hoarding data have nil correlation to piracy itself.
Yes, that's true. My point was that I'm already spending a lot of money to pirate, and that I would be spending that money to support the creators if something like steam existed. Not once did I say or even imply I was unhappy with that situation, not once did I imply that you needed to spend that kind of money in order to pirate.
I simply said that I spend a lot of money on piracy, and that there's a significant service problem with streaming services. The implication one could draw from that is that if the service problems were improved I'd be giving the money to the creators, instead of spending it on hard drives.
Instead some people seem to think this is some kind of an attack on piracy as being too expensive. Which is a reasonable mistake to make under the circumstances, if I could edit the post to clarify I would. I'd just appreciate it if you weren't so... aggressively misunderstanding. The reality is that I do a lot of other data-archival stuff on that server as well, and have made no claims about piracy being expensive.
> This connection is irrational as well - the name "streaming services" already implies that content is being streamed for viewing and not downloaded for storage.
Since you seem to care about rationality, try giving this a read: https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/A_Human%27s_Guide_to_Words
Yes, that's true. My point was that I'm already spending a lot of money to pirate, and that I would be spending that money to support the creators if something like steam existed. Not once did I say or even imply I was unhappy with that situation, not once did I imply that you needed to spend that kind of money in order to pirate.
I simply said that I spend a lot of money on piracy, and that there's a significant service problem with streaming services. The implication one could draw from that is that if the service problems were improved I'd be giving the money to the creators, instead of spending it on hard drives.
Instead some people seem to think this is some kind of an attack on piracy as being too expensive. Which is a reasonable mistake to make under the circumstances, if I could edit the post to clarify I would. I'd just appreciate it if you weren't so... aggressively misunderstanding. The reality is that I do a lot of other data-archival stuff on that server as well, and have made no claims about piracy being expensive.
> This connection is irrational as well - the name "streaming services" already implies that content is being streamed for viewing and not downloaded for storage.
Since you seem to care about rationality, try giving this a read: https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/A_Human%27s_Guide_to_Words
> My point was that I'm already spending a lot of money to pirate
… okay then. Let’s leave it at that.
… okay then. Let’s leave it at that.
> This connection is irrational as well - the name "streaming services" already implies that content is being streamed for viewing and not downloaded for storage.
I remember all the way back to the late 90s, when we were already ridiculing the people who thought "streaming" was some radical new concept that was different/better than downloading. I remember a VC or some other exec hotshot coming to visit a startup I was involved in, insisting he was interested in investing in media streaming, not media downloading. Everyone on the eng team just held their chuckles until he left. There's really no technical difference between streaming and downloading, besides that streaming has an extra deletion step. It's all just transferring bits from one computer to another. "Streaming" is just downloading dressed up in a business suit.
I remember all the way back to the late 90s, when we were already ridiculing the people who thought "streaming" was some radical new concept that was different/better than downloading. I remember a VC or some other exec hotshot coming to visit a startup I was involved in, insisting he was interested in investing in media streaming, not media downloading. Everyone on the eng team just held their chuckles until he left. There's really no technical difference between streaming and downloading, besides that streaming has an extra deletion step. It's all just transferring bits from one computer to another. "Streaming" is just downloading dressed up in a business suit.
I don't use BitTorrent anymore, but when I did my rule of thumb was to have at least a ratio of 1.0, or continue seeding it for a month, whichever happened first. After which I would feel fine deleting it.
My seeding ratio is in the positive! I keep the downloaded file and seed until I hit 2.00, then it's gone.
I have to convert and move the original file for my TV anyway, so sometimes the file will be gone from my library, but I'm still seeding the original for a while afterwards.
I have to convert and move the original file for my TV anyway, so sometimes the file will be gone from my library, but I'm still seeding the original for a while afterwards.
Just reached 5.0, more than 12 TB up. Feels great :D.
Exactly, my favorite thing about torrents (and usenet) is the community of making requests for obscure content
> really love and want to rewatch (Robocop)
You mean Dredd 2012.
"Are you ready?" "Yes." "You don't look ready." Absolutely the best performance of Olivia Thirlby, although of course Karl Urban was great, too.
You mean Dredd 2012.
"Are you ready?" "Yes." "You don't look ready." Absolutely the best performance of Olivia Thirlby, although of course Karl Urban was great, too.
Bitches leave.
I don't pirate, I pay for content, but I like to own a digital copy of music content. So I buy MP3s rather than subscribe to a service. It's probably strange-- and maybe dumb-- but I feel like in the long run I never know what will happen to a service in terms of how it may change in price or quality. If I own a CD or an MP3, I know I have what I want.
It may not be rational. I know some people think I am crazy.
It may not be rational. I know some people think I am crazy.
It makes sense but on practical terms it's expensive and uncovenient to buy MP3s.
That is true. But if say Spotify costs $9.99 / month and you buy tracks for $0.99 or album $8.99 (average ~12 tracks, maybe $0.60). After three years you have a pretty big collection, like 600 songs. And it would just get bigger.
I have sirius xm in my car, which is how I learn about new things. But you could hear new stuff via FM or YouTube.
The truth is I don't spent $9.99 a month on average so maybe it is not that expensive.
I have sirius xm in my car, which is how I learn about new things. But you could hear new stuff via FM or YouTube.
The truth is I don't spent $9.99 a month on average so maybe it is not that expensive.
Where can you buy an album at $8.99? Spotify, if I were a customer, would cost me ~$4 / month. Music streaming at current prices isn't profitable. It makes sense for the average dude to subscribe to Spotify.
Lots of albums on bandcamp are in this price range[1]. Some are even "pay what you want."
[1] Example: https://rubberoh.bandcamp.com
If what spotify is doing isn't profitable then it isn't sustainable, so why sink your time into it? When they go belly up what happens to all the time you invested in it?
[1] Example: https://rubberoh.bandcamp.com
If what spotify is doing isn't profitable then it isn't sustainable, so why sink your time into it? When they go belly up what happens to all the time you invested in it?
> Lots of albums on bandcamp are in this price range
Thanks, didn't know about it and it's an interesting marketplace. Catalog is limited but I found bands that I follow there.
> When they go belly up what happens to all the time you invested in it?
Spotify is just a platform to listening to music, the subscription fee is like paying rent, time is invested in what I listen to. And it will not go belly up, at least not all streaming services, it will just raise subscription fees.
I understood your argument it's better to buy the albums now than to expend all that money on streaming and then later having to buy all of that anyways. But that is a misconception because not everyone is a collector and some are just explorers and like to listen to a new artist/album for a weeek and then move on.
Thanks, didn't know about it and it's an interesting marketplace. Catalog is limited but I found bands that I follow there.
> When they go belly up what happens to all the time you invested in it?
Spotify is just a platform to listening to music, the subscription fee is like paying rent, time is invested in what I listen to. And it will not go belly up, at least not all streaming services, it will just raise subscription fees.
I understood your argument it's better to buy the albums now than to expend all that money on streaming and then later having to buy all of that anyways. But that is a misconception because not everyone is a collector and some are just explorers and like to listen to a new artist/album for a weeek and then move on.
Long ago, computing was about freedom.
"I can organize a music collection the way I want...AND take it with me wherever I go?"
Somewhere along the line "convenience" displaced "freedom".
"Why manage my own collection when I have Spotify or Apple Music?"
I suspect the pendulum will swing back at some point.
"I can organize a music collection the way I want...AND take it with me wherever I go?"
Somewhere along the line "convenience" displaced "freedom".
"Why manage my own collection when I have Spotify or Apple Music?"
I suspect the pendulum will swing back at some point.
Don't get me wrong, I gave up on streaming services a long time ago and started pirating again because streaming services started being incovenient. Buying things is the most incovenient choice because the industry in general give consumers only two choices: A- cheap streaming, B- expensive physical media.
> It makes sense but on practical terms it's expensive and uncovenient to buy MP3s.
I don't identify with this comment at all! How is it expensive and inconvenient?
I prefer to buyt the CD and rip it if possible, as then I have built-in backup. But if not, I'll buy the MP3 online, from amazon usually. Very easy.
I don't identify with this comment at all! How is it expensive and inconvenient?
I prefer to buyt the CD and rip it if possible, as then I have built-in backup. But if not, I'll buy the MP3 online, from amazon usually. Very easy.
I'm starting to do this, bought some albums from bands I hear a lot on bandcamp friday. I like the idea of supporting the musicians more directly, but I still use streaming platforms, as I can't buy every song I hear, and it is easier to discover new music
You're fine, I do the same.
Either that or we're on the same hallway. :)
Either that or we're on the same hallway. :)
I do the same thing.
> It may not be rational. I know some people think I am crazy.
It's entirely rational. The availability of music/video on streaming services is very ephemeral.
If you really like something, buy a copy and store it locally.
It's entirely rational. The availability of music/video on streaming services is very ephemeral.
If you really like something, buy a copy and store it locally.
I don't think this is irrational at all.
Listening "offline" by installing a shitty app is a severe service problem. It punishes me as a customer and doesn't stop any piracy anyway.
Files are just so much more flexible than an app. From my favorite artists I usually still buy CD since there are almost no alternatives. Of course I would prefer a digital download. Some offer it and that is much appreciated.
Listening "offline" by installing a shitty app is a severe service problem. It punishes me as a customer and doesn't stop any piracy anyway.
Files are just so much more flexible than an app. From my favorite artists I usually still buy CD since there are almost no alternatives. Of course I would prefer a digital download. Some offer it and that is much appreciated.
An acquaintance of mine I lost contact with used to copy each DVD he rented from the video store, back in the early to mid 2000's.
Then he realized he had a box full of DVD-Rs, nicely ripped using DVDFab Decrypter and processed and RCE-stripped with the latest DVD Shrink, but had never gone back into that box to rewatch any of them, and had never been asked by anyone if he had any of those movies.
It was at that point where he decided if he really liked a movie, it was worth buying to have the original box and leaflet.
Then he realized he had a box full of DVD-Rs, nicely ripped using DVDFab Decrypter and processed and RCE-stripped with the latest DVD Shrink, but had never gone back into that box to rewatch any of them, and had never been asked by anyone if he had any of those movies.
It was at that point where he decided if he really liked a movie, it was worth buying to have the original box and leaflet.
> Your piracy is an excuse for data hoarding, which is a problem.
Your fake concern an excuse for busy-bodying, which is a problem.
Your fake concern an excuse for busy-bodying, which is a problem.
I mean, what's wrong with data hoarding? People always say you should have backups, but when you make some proper ones it's suddenly "hoarding" and "a problem" smh.
Who is claiming that you must have backups of pirated content?
People. It's written right there.
How is it that? OP is the one that shared. No one is forcing him to post here.
Did OP ask if it was a problem?
Did OP state it was a problem?
Not that I see - AFAICT the only people declaring it a problem are the busybodies latching on to OP spending the same amount on this hobby as they would dining out at a decent restaurant once a month.
Did OP state it was a problem?
Not that I see - AFAICT the only people declaring it a problem are the busybodies latching on to OP spending the same amount on this hobby as they would dining out at a decent restaurant once a month.
> Did OP state it was a problem?
The title ascribes it to "piracy" costs, which is incorrect. GL with whatever.
The title ascribes it to "piracy" costs, which is incorrect. GL with whatever.
The title is > Tell HN: I probably spend more on piracy than if I just paid for content
That doesn't say it's a problem. It's a statement of fact. You are projecting a problem onto it.
I pay more for dinner out than I would if signed up for HelloFresh to be delivered to my house.
What if I like eating out?
What if neither cost has any meaningful impact on my bottom line?
Is that a problem too?
That doesn't say it's a problem. It's a statement of fact. You are projecting a problem onto it.
I pay more for dinner out than I would if signed up for HelloFresh to be delivered to my house.
What if I like eating out?
What if neither cost has any meaningful impact on my bottom line?
Is that a problem too?
Any ethical considerations aside for pirating: I agreed with you until the final sentence. There is no problem with choosing to keep a show after watching it, that’s their choice. Why would a data retention strategy that differs from yours be a “problem”?
Only because of the cost, which is only a problem for the person doing it if they find it to be so personally, which the OP seems to, so.
Or maybe I misinterpreted this post and they don't think it's a problem, which is fine then. But if the post is about how expensive it is to pirate... that expense has a lot to do with the data retention policy choice, not just the pirating. Is the point to be made.
Or maybe I misinterpreted this post and they don't think it's a problem, which is fine then. But if the post is about how expensive it is to pirate... that expense has a lot to do with the data retention policy choice, not just the pirating. Is the point to be made.
[deleted]
This is one of the very first tines I have seen data hoarding described as a problem rather than just a hobby.
It does seem to have aspects that are a bit more troublesome than people talk about. Reddit seems very pro hoarding, this thread seems to see it like physical hoarding.
It doesn't seem to be as much of a problem as this thread would make you think though.
It does seem to have aspects that are a bit more troublesome than people talk about. Reddit seems very pro hoarding, this thread seems to see it like physical hoarding.
It doesn't seem to be as much of a problem as this thread would make you think though.
Eh, sending $1200 on a hobby doesn't seem all that problematic to me, especially if one is getting additional utility from it. It's not like the cat is going to go missing behind a pile of hard drives any time soon.
OP Doesn't need to go to rehab, but OP described a problem (expense is growing) and one solution would be to think about the collection in a different way. I think in this case, it is a 'problem' in a practical sense, not a moral one. That being said if OP just wants to vent and doesn't want a solution then there's that too.
> Your piracy is an excuse for data hoarding, which is a problem.
Not OP, but I’m guilty of this.
However, I also rewatch anything I like and love introducing people to things they haven’t seen. It’s great being able to share a large library of curated content.
Not OP, but I’m guilty of this.
However, I also rewatch anything I like and love introducing people to things they haven’t seen. It’s great being able to share a large library of curated content.
I’d buy that for a dollar!
Data hoarding is not a problem. Collecting and organizing something can bring great joy to people. Think of collectors.
Most of my collection is older stuff, not available on streaming services anymore. Forgotten, almost, in a lot of places since companies can't be bothered to license it anymore.
In an age where a lot of culturally relevant media is not stored on physical copies anymore, preserving what we love for our children is all the more important.
Most of my collection is older stuff, not available on streaming services anymore. Forgotten, almost, in a lot of places since companies can't be bothered to license it anymore.
In an age where a lot of culturally relevant media is not stored on physical copies anymore, preserving what we love for our children is all the more important.
why would data hoarding be a problem? it can be a perfectly legitimate hobby, has massive communities and also acts as digital preservation, think the biggest hoarder on the planet archive.org
I hear about people who stopped hoarding when they discovered the hybrid middleground: debrid services, which cache torrents and usenet so they can be directly downloaded / streamed. you pay roughly the same per month as you would for the basic Netflix, Amazon, Apple, Disney, etc. packages but on just one subscription, i.e. all the content for the price of one. the quality and reliability is better too (4K, 10bit, 7.1, atmos, CDN..)
I hear about people who stopped hoarding when they discovered the hybrid middleground: debrid services, which cache torrents and usenet so they can be directly downloaded / streamed. you pay roughly the same per month as you would for the basic Netflix, Amazon, Apple, Disney, etc. packages but on just one subscription, i.e. all the content for the price of one. the quality and reliability is better too (4K, 10bit, 7.1, atmos, CDN..)
I am 100% against hoarding, but data hoarding makes a lot more sense to me.
I was looking for an album by a small punk band called Straighten Things Out called "Dawn Of A New Hope". Loved this album; listened to it all of the time on Apple Music (where I discovered it). Went on a walk one day and tried to load it...and it was gone.
I can't even find this album on eBay, and you can find everything there!
"Milo Goes To College" by The Descendants, a more well-known pop punk band, was removed as well. Randomly, without warning. The Descendants are often credited as the "fathers" of Pop Punk; basically any mainstream pop punk band you've heard of cites them as an influence. This album basically started this genre...and it's gone.
Fortunately there are enough vinyls of this record that make it easy to find when I one day build my epic vinyl collection.
Had I saved these to my iTunes Library or ripped them to a NAS of some kind, I'd still have it. (Fun fact: Milo Goes To College _was_ in my Google Play Music Locker, which Google sunsetted when they launched YouTube Music, so I lost that "copy". I'm also going to guess that it was in my iTunes Music Library as well, which still exists as cloud storage, but albums that you add to your iCloud Music Library from Apple Music are pointers to tracks in the streaming service which can go away at any time.)
I was looking for an album by a small punk band called Straighten Things Out called "Dawn Of A New Hope". Loved this album; listened to it all of the time on Apple Music (where I discovered it). Went on a walk one day and tried to load it...and it was gone.
I can't even find this album on eBay, and you can find everything there!
"Milo Goes To College" by The Descendants, a more well-known pop punk band, was removed as well. Randomly, without warning. The Descendants are often credited as the "fathers" of Pop Punk; basically any mainstream pop punk band you've heard of cites them as an influence. This album basically started this genre...and it's gone.
Fortunately there are enough vinyls of this record that make it easy to find when I one day build my epic vinyl collection.
Had I saved these to my iTunes Library or ripped them to a NAS of some kind, I'd still have it. (Fun fact: Milo Goes To College _was_ in my Google Play Music Locker, which Google sunsetted when they launched YouTube Music, so I lost that "copy". I'm also going to guess that it was in my iTunes Music Library as well, which still exists as cloud storage, but albums that you add to your iCloud Music Library from Apple Music are pointers to tracks in the streaming service which can go away at any time.)
*Yells at Google for a good 15 minutes*
...I'm a tad surprised that worked as well as it did:
1. https://vk.com/wall-112927118?w=wall-112927118_185 ("Download")
2. http://metalbootlegs08.blogspot.com/2016/10/descendents-milo... ("Official Website")
Oh, also - *hands you a vacuum cleaner that tends to eat things in case they disappear later* - maybe go wandering/exploring? These types of sites are incredibly fun yet even more transient.
...I'm a tad surprised that worked as well as it did:
1. https://vk.com/wall-112927118?w=wall-112927118_185 ("Download")
2. http://metalbootlegs08.blogspot.com/2016/10/descendents-milo... ("Official Website")
Oh, also - *hands you a vacuum cleaner that tends to eat things in case they disappear later* - maybe go wandering/exploring? These types of sites are incredibly fun yet even more transient.
You can still find some downloads on OLD blogspot aggregators but many of those links point to archives on Mediafire and Megaupload, both of which are no longer around.
piratebay might still point to trackers that have copies, but bittorrent isn't as popular as it was in the past
piratebay might still point to trackers that have copies, but bittorrent isn't as popular as it was in the past
> Mediafire and Megaupload, both of which are no longer around.
Mediafire is still up https://www.mediafire.com/
> piratebay might still point to trackers that have copies, but bittorrent isn't as popular as it was in the past
Most music pirates have moved on to using Soulseek (a P2P network) it seems. Releases not found on bittorrent can most likely be found on SLSK.
http://www.slsknet.org
Mediafire is still up https://www.mediafire.com/
> piratebay might still point to trackers that have copies, but bittorrent isn't as popular as it was in the past
Most music pirates have moved on to using Soulseek (a P2P network) it seems. Releases not found on bittorrent can most likely be found on SLSK.
http://www.slsknet.org
(Just to clarify, those were interesting links at the time I posted them.)
>> "Milo Goes To College" by The Descendants, a more well-known pop punk band, was removed as well. Randomly, without warning.
Politically incorrect music tends to get sent down the memory hole.
Politically incorrect music tends to get sent down the memory hole.
...because of a few songs that were not politically-incorrect when recorded in 1982 and were later altered by the band themselves when they grew up and realized what they did.
it's still an important album that i like to listen to.
it's still an important album that i like to listen to.
Out of curiosity, can you point me to a specific song that involves 'not okay' parts?
> I can't even find this album on eBay, and you can find everything there!
i hope that discussing secondhand sales in the context of piracy might not be off-topic. if it is on topic, discogs.com is a decent source for most secondhand recordings. if you visit [1] you'll see there are two different sellers offering copies there, as well as price histories. i have not found many releases not listed on discogs.
[1]: https://www.discogs.com/release/6768123-Straighten-Things-Ou...
i hope that discussing secondhand sales in the context of piracy might not be off-topic. if it is on topic, discogs.com is a decent source for most secondhand recordings. if you visit [1] you'll see there are two different sellers offering copies there, as well as price histories. i have not found many releases not listed on discogs.
[1]: https://www.discogs.com/release/6768123-Straighten-Things-Ou...
That small punk bands are a sensible target for data hoarding isn't surprising, but you know one I found out that's surprising?
Riverdance. Yeah, the Eurovision pause show from 1994 which became a huge hit and started a decade-long fad of various rhytmic dance ensembles touring the world and actually doing really well. Fantastic commercial success, of course. They did many CD releases, and there are a lot of differences between the recordings: the cast of performers, whether they have stepping noises mixed in, even the track listing. But you can only get the last of them on streaming services.
Riverdance. Yeah, the Eurovision pause show from 1994 which became a huge hit and started a decade-long fad of various rhytmic dance ensembles touring the world and actually doing really well. Fantastic commercial success, of course. They did many CD releases, and there are a lot of differences between the recordings: the cast of performers, whether they have stepping noises mixed in, even the track listing. But you can only get the last of them on streaming services.
Yup, all of the niche genres that have (relatively) smaller listener counts don't make enough from the streams to make paying for older releases worth it. Sucks.
Music is meant to be played endlessly. Go and get those records and spin them as much as possible.
Just don't start hoarding terabytes of music you don't enjoy.
Just don't start hoarding terabytes of music you don't enjoy.
I'm sure you can find the former on music peer to peer services ;)
data hoarding is hoarding, but it might be a better way to get the dopamine hit one gets from hoarding in a way that doesn't take over and ruin one's life.
imagine this same person was someone who in the past might have hoarded VHS recordings or newspapers. How much space would that take up. A significant amount, to the point where we see the houses of hoarders and the hoarding has really damaged their ability to live. While data hoarding does take time and money, it doesn't have to take over one's physical space in the same manner.
So, while hoarding can be a problem, it really depends on the damage its doing to one's life. If one spends hours a day searching for content, neglecting one's life/family/job and putting them at risk, that's bad. If one has things automated, and its just a question of money they spend on it, then its just a question can they afford it. If they can, its just a hobby, not a sickness, as its not damaging to one's life.
Now, even with what I said, it can be hard for the person themselves to understand the effect it might be having on their life, perhaps until its too late (you think you are on top of things, but things unravel quickly).
imagine this same person was someone who in the past might have hoarded VHS recordings or newspapers. How much space would that take up. A significant amount, to the point where we see the houses of hoarders and the hoarding has really damaged their ability to live. While data hoarding does take time and money, it doesn't have to take over one's physical space in the same manner.
So, while hoarding can be a problem, it really depends on the damage its doing to one's life. If one spends hours a day searching for content, neglecting one's life/family/job and putting them at risk, that's bad. If one has things automated, and its just a question of money they spend on it, then its just a question can they afford it. If they can, its just a hobby, not a sickness, as its not damaging to one's life.
Now, even with what I said, it can be hard for the person themselves to understand the effect it might be having on their life, perhaps until its too late (you think you are on top of things, but things unravel quickly).
You are exactly me. Right down to (Robocop). But I still haven't figured out how to hit that delete button. As much as I know I need to. I'm sitting on 30TB now of stuff I'll never ever ever watch again. But I just can't delete it.
Don't delete it. Just disconnect the drives and shove them in a cupboard. Do it slowly. Move from everything is in my library all the time to I move movies to drives I keep disconnected.
>I only keep the movies I really love and want to rewatch (Robocop).
I absolutely love that Robocop is the specific movie that you felt needed to be mentioned. :)
I absolutely love that Robocop is the specific movie that you felt needed to be mentioned. :)
IT'S THE PERFECT FILM!
People used to keep racks of CD and DVDs years ago and it wasn't a syndrome at all... They're still great for when Internet goes down.
With bandwidth becoming a metered utility and cost of streaming becoming a ridiculously overpriced fiasco, it's more important than ever to be able to be able to buy and own content. Even cloud storage is now yet another costly monthly service set to rise over time, and that's why device makers are reducing the storage capabilities on phones and computers while prices still rise. We need to fight this trend by spending more carefully on devices and services, they often add no new value when updated besides new revenue streams for the companies.
With bandwidth becoming a metered utility and cost of streaming becoming a ridiculously overpriced fiasco, it's more important than ever to be able to be able to buy and own content. Even cloud storage is now yet another costly monthly service set to rise over time, and that's why device makers are reducing the storage capabilities on phones and computers while prices still rise. We need to fight this trend by spending more carefully on devices and services, they often add no new value when updated besides new revenue streams for the companies.
If you deleted the movies after you watched like you do in streaming services them then you wouldn't need all that storage.
Then you'd be back to the 'availability' thing.
I also appreciate local copies and created a seedbox recently. Torrents still seems better for TV. But I delete shows after I watch them so no need to have such a large amount of space for media.
What do you mean by TOR for TV? Watching foreign TV thorugh Tor network?
Just jetlagged, I meant torrents.
I haven't paid for 90-95% of the content I consumed in the past 12 years. I've never spent a cent on it.(and I used to spend many hours watching new movies/shows every single day+Music+AAA games)
Maybe try not hoarding all the half-decent movies on earth in 4K bluray version? at this point you have more data than a small piracy site...
Maybe try not hoarding all the half-decent movies on earth in 4K bluray version? at this point you have more data than a small piracy site...
Do you ever feel guilty that if everyone did what you did none of the content would exist? That you are stealing from all the hard working artists and tradespeople that made the content you love?
Do you ever feel guilty the money you give them for entertainment could be going to a hungry mother?
I don't lose sleep over the blockbuster superhero movie that is geared towards the Chinese market changing because something I did. If I had that power I would shut it down and not spend 100 million.
I don't lose sleep over the blockbuster superhero movie that is geared towards the Chinese market changing because something I did. If I had that power I would shut it down and not spend 100 million.
[deleted]
If I lift food out of the bin at a michelin star restaurant am I stealing from all the hard working chefs and waiters that made the food? nope.
If every one I know joined me in eating from the bin would the michelin star restaurant go out of business? nope.
If every one I know joined me in eating from the bin would the michelin star restaurant go out of business? nope.
No.
For multiple reasons.
First of all when you have a negative net worth you don't care about the royalties of some hollywood rockstars.
2nd of all, I'm not ready to pay 10 different monthly subscriptions while not even being able to watch 100% of what I want.
3rd of all, even though I appreciate the content, I don't necessarily approve the actions of the artist/producer/developer. I don't want to give a cent to a company that ask its underpaid workers for 100 hour work week during crunch time. I don't want to fund a rapist/abuser producer, I don't to fund anyone's yacht or Ferrari.
Even though I absolutely love his movies, I don't want to fund a guy like tarantino who willingly endangered someones life for one scene.
I mostly consume mainstream stuff so most of the money I'd spent would go to people who already are 1000x richer than me.
I don't really enjoy indie games/movies/music, if I were, maybe I'd act differently.
For multiple reasons.
First of all when you have a negative net worth you don't care about the royalties of some hollywood rockstars.
2nd of all, I'm not ready to pay 10 different monthly subscriptions while not even being able to watch 100% of what I want.
3rd of all, even though I appreciate the content, I don't necessarily approve the actions of the artist/producer/developer. I don't want to give a cent to a company that ask its underpaid workers for 100 hour work week during crunch time. I don't want to fund a rapist/abuser producer, I don't to fund anyone's yacht or Ferrari.
Even though I absolutely love his movies, I don't want to fund a guy like tarantino who willingly endangered someones life for one scene.
I mostly consume mainstream stuff so most of the money I'd spent would go to people who already are 1000x richer than me.
I don't really enjoy indie games/movies/music, if I were, maybe I'd act differently.
Piracy: you're doing it wrong
Swedish author Wilderäng made a good move. First book of a Trilogy was on Pirate Bay. And then goddämn, I had to buy rest of those books with my own precious money, because it was important to know what happens to Sweden under zombie apocalypse.
In Japan, they also use this tactic to sell other media with anime. There's a certain IP in manga, light novel, or video game form, and it gets a season of anime which presents just a sliver of the full story.
Are you also subscribed to private torrent trackers by chance?
Sounds like they are using usenet+nzb indexer. Probably an nzbget+sonarr+radarr setup.
Seems unlikely, given how heavily they are relying on Usenet.
Piracy and data-hoarding are two different hobbies. One cost next to nothing, the cost of the other one you are quite familiar with..
Jokes aside, would you consider deleting your entire collection and then also cancel subscriptions and possibly give away or sell any tech equipment you do not use for work? And then find something else to do with the newly-freed time? Can you do it for 6 or 12 months? If not, why not? Try to figure out why you are doing it to begin with.
Jokes aside, would you consider deleting your entire collection and then also cancel subscriptions and possibly give away or sell any tech equipment you do not use for work? And then find something else to do with the newly-freed time? Can you do it for 6 or 12 months? If not, why not? Try to figure out why you are doing it to begin with.
Piracy and such hoarding are inextricably intertwined. If you want a particularly uncommon variant of some pirate content (like an obscure movie in any quality, or a somewhat popular movie in original BD format), you better grab it when it's available, as further down the line getting the exact same such content may be more and more difficult.
Streaming services have a similar issue (re-encoding, bad rereleases due to licensing issues, delistings, crappy format choices in the first place) but generally a bit better SLA-like and a longer timeframe to watch certain content.
Streaming services have a similar issue (re-encoding, bad rereleases due to licensing issues, delistings, crappy format choices in the first place) but generally a bit better SLA-like and a longer timeframe to watch certain content.
> If you want a particularly uncommon variant of some pirate content (like an obscure movie in any quality, or a somewhat popular movie in original BD format), you better grab it when it's available, as further down the line getting the exact same such content may be more and more difficult.
The constant availability of the pirated content is a big driver of the cost here. For some of the obscure stuff, this could be on a backup, or even on something like Amazon Glacier (I.e. no one is watching 30tb of video content regularly), and the resulting computer needed for pirating could be significantly less expensive, both to build/buy and for monthly electricity costs (like a laptop).
The constant availability of the pirated content is a big driver of the cost here. For some of the obscure stuff, this could be on a backup, or even on something like Amazon Glacier (I.e. no one is watching 30tb of video content regularly), and the resulting computer needed for pirating could be significantly less expensive, both to build/buy and for monthly electricity costs (like a laptop).
Amazon Glacier assumes that you only retrieve a fraction of the data.
So it's for hoarding?
That's the same for non-pirates in this rent economy where you don't own the things you buy anymore. And anyone I know who's seriously into movies, meaning they watch stuff far beyond the Follywood mainstream, is part of some online club/"pirate group" if you want to call them that, because there isn't another way to get a lot of the rare stuff. Even though someone may legally hold the rights, but they simply don't make it available to the public.
> "And anyone I know who's seriously into movies, meaning they watch stuff far beyond the Follywood mainstream..."
This sounds pretty dreadful - "Follywood" is hardly clever I'm afraid to say. Especially when linking it to an elite snobbery of being "seriously into movies" .
But please hear me out - I don't mean to just rip on you for a turn of phrase. But there are a couple of things you are maybe overlooking that are sort of implied by tying these concepts together as you have.
Hollywood is a truly magnificent human achievement, but sometimes it's hard to see that when bobbing around in the waves of its deluge. Step back a bit and consider that in the past century it has produced a steady stream of narrative masterpieces that are shared by the whole world. That the stagecraft and special effects have given palpable form to impossible dreams, etc.
In less glowy-flowy terms, it is an overwhelming machine designed to produce and transmit pure culture. A major force in what they call "Cultural Imperialism". To a not insignificant degree it turned the tide in the Cold War, for example. You can see the struggle every time there is a news story about China demanding modification, or rejecting Hollywood output. Eventually Hollywood will win that struggle, even if it takes a few generations.
There are many countries with their own film industries, least of which is China, but including India, Japan, Korea, Italy France, and on and on. But none of them have had remotely the success, popularity or power of Hollywood. The place, the machine is an absolute Triumph.
But to get back to your unfortunate turn of phrase... imagining that you or they have some elite status due to watching films out of the mainstream - A major component of the Hollywood machine is using the mainstream films' revenue to subsidize genre films, student films and often picking up truly independent films. These are the elitist films you seem to be referring to, that or the film output of the other countries. This range of films have always been a part of the machine, since the early days a century ago. Much of it is mediocre or clumsy. Sometimes they are shocking or disruptive. Sometimes they are genuinely brilliant or visionary.
But all of this obscure stuff that movie buffs are glorying in, ultimately this is just the output of the training ground for the Hollywood Mainstream. Consider Sam Raimi or Peter Jackson's filmography to see what I mean. Both started out making quirky indy horror films and once graduated began putting out $Billion dollar joints.
This sounds pretty dreadful - "Follywood" is hardly clever I'm afraid to say. Especially when linking it to an elite snobbery of being "seriously into movies" .
But please hear me out - I don't mean to just rip on you for a turn of phrase. But there are a couple of things you are maybe overlooking that are sort of implied by tying these concepts together as you have.
Hollywood is a truly magnificent human achievement, but sometimes it's hard to see that when bobbing around in the waves of its deluge. Step back a bit and consider that in the past century it has produced a steady stream of narrative masterpieces that are shared by the whole world. That the stagecraft and special effects have given palpable form to impossible dreams, etc.
In less glowy-flowy terms, it is an overwhelming machine designed to produce and transmit pure culture. A major force in what they call "Cultural Imperialism". To a not insignificant degree it turned the tide in the Cold War, for example. You can see the struggle every time there is a news story about China demanding modification, or rejecting Hollywood output. Eventually Hollywood will win that struggle, even if it takes a few generations.
There are many countries with their own film industries, least of which is China, but including India, Japan, Korea, Italy France, and on and on. But none of them have had remotely the success, popularity or power of Hollywood. The place, the machine is an absolute Triumph.
But to get back to your unfortunate turn of phrase... imagining that you or they have some elite status due to watching films out of the mainstream - A major component of the Hollywood machine is using the mainstream films' revenue to subsidize genre films, student films and often picking up truly independent films. These are the elitist films you seem to be referring to, that or the film output of the other countries. This range of films have always been a part of the machine, since the early days a century ago. Much of it is mediocre or clumsy. Sometimes they are shocking or disruptive. Sometimes they are genuinely brilliant or visionary.
But all of this obscure stuff that movie buffs are glorying in, ultimately this is just the output of the training ground for the Hollywood Mainstream. Consider Sam Raimi or Peter Jackson's filmography to see what I mean. Both started out making quirky indy horror films and once graduated began putting out $Billion dollar joints.
I think it is more intertwined with your movie-watching habit. Akin to that in the DVD age most people probably only had maybe a couple of dozens, few with entire walls in their home dedicated to movie storage.
Almost all of the movies/series I watch are somewhat obscure (from a Hollywood perspective) so I like to keep them around. But I don't watch nearly enough movies or care enough about their longevity, that a single, non backed up external drive wouldn't be good enough.
I guess there are many people who pirate for the sake of pirating trying to collect as much content as they can without actually consuming it all. But don't know what proportion this is.
Almost all of the movies/series I watch are somewhat obscure (from a Hollywood perspective) so I like to keep them around. But I don't watch nearly enough movies or care enough about their longevity, that a single, non backed up external drive wouldn't be good enough.
I guess there are many people who pirate for the sake of pirating trying to collect as much content as they can without actually consuming it all. But don't know what proportion this is.
I remember getting together with a high school friend in the 90s and him talking about a similar setup (modulo 90s technology including dial-up internet access) for downloading pirated software. He never actually used the software, he just collected it. The plus side of digital hoarding is that the hoarder is less likely to die alone after being trapped by a falling pile of stuff.
I bet in we'll see a hoarder who dies alone under a pile of high density 8TB sandisk magnetic tapes. Full of something important like pirated twitch streams.
The multimillionaire, locally known for his completely isolated & reclusive lifestyle, was found to have been financially destitute after his untimely passing from a freak accident.
Crushed to death under a stack of computer equipment, they leave behind only 1 Petabyte worth of Seagate 8TB hard disks. Upon investigating, it was found that each drive was completely filled with “boutique furry porn.”
Those who knew the deceased in passing say they cannot imagine where his millions had gone.
Crushed to death under a stack of computer equipment, they leave behind only 1 Petabyte worth of Seagate 8TB hard disks. Upon investigating, it was found that each drive was completely filled with “boutique furry porn.”
Those who knew the deceased in passing say they cannot imagine where his millions had gone.
Suspiciously rich furries are the backbone of online art comissions ...
Hoarding does seem to be the issue. We aren’t on dial up connections anymore. I can grab a movie torrent and it will download within a minute or so.
Much of what we grab via torrent often takes a long time - generally slightly obscure stuff, so we 'hoard' a bit. No more than maybe high single digit terabytes, but... we can't always get some of this (older shows/movies, foreign stuff, etc).
The upside is that we have a lot to share with folks (mostly family) who've not necessarily seen this stuff (and can't typically find it on services in our area).
The upside is that we have a lot to share with folks (mostly family) who've not necessarily seen this stuff (and can't typically find it on services in our area).
> Jokes aside, would you consider deleting your entire collection and then also cancel subscriptions and possibly give away or sell any tech equipment you do not use for work? And then find something else to do with the newly-freed time? Can you do it for 6 or 12 months? If not, why not? Try to figure out why you are doing it to begin with.
Anecdotally, I have a mild data hoarding hobby and no streaming subscriptions, and had my tech setup offline for about 6 months after moving to a new house. Spent most of the free time running ethernet, replacing dozens of recessed lights, replacing all the lights switches, assembling furniture, painting, picking up nails and rocks that reno guys left all over the lawn, and various other house things.
I bought a TV for black friday, wall-mounted it, and haven't even gotten around to plugging it in. (Or finding a piece of furniture from which to use it.) I'm looking forward to that; watching TV and playing video games is really more fun than patching drywall.
Anecdotally, I have a mild data hoarding hobby and no streaming subscriptions, and had my tech setup offline for about 6 months after moving to a new house. Spent most of the free time running ethernet, replacing dozens of recessed lights, replacing all the lights switches, assembling furniture, painting, picking up nails and rocks that reno guys left all over the lawn, and various other house things.
I bought a TV for black friday, wall-mounted it, and haven't even gotten around to plugging it in. (Or finding a piece of furniture from which to use it.) I'm looking forward to that; watching TV and playing video games is really more fun than patching drywall.
While I appreciate the concern, I've got a fair bit of free time, and to be clear I'm not actually worried about the financial cost. I'm living well within my means. Tomorrow I'm going to build a chicken coop.
The setup I've got doesn't require very much active maintenance, aside from yelling at my father to tag things better. I'm sure I could just go to sketchy pirate streaming sites (putlocker and the like) if I was concerned about the money. The point of this isn't so much that I'm spending too much on this hobby, but that piracy really is a service problem.
The setup I've got doesn't require very much active maintenance, aside from yelling at my father to tag things better. I'm sure I could just go to sketchy pirate streaming sites (putlocker and the like) if I was concerned about the money. The point of this isn't so much that I'm spending too much on this hobby, but that piracy really is a service problem.
> Tomorrow I'm going to build a chicken coop. The setup I've got doesn't require very much active maintenance, aside from yelling at my father to tag things better.
Think you might have to feed the chickens along side your tagging scheme.
Think you might have to feed the chickens along side your tagging scheme.
It is mystifying to me that people cannot understand the simple meaning of the article: Paid programming provides bad service for the money, enough so that you get a better experience via back channels. If the publishers want your business, they will need to provide service better than you can cobble up yourself.
I object to the term "pirating" here. Piracy involves depriving people of life and property. You are not doing anything like that. Bootlegging might be a tolerably apt term. Bootlegging is just bypassing onerous restrictions and taxes, with an admixture of freeloading.
My wife pays for various channels, but I torrent the same content because the experience is radically better. Am I pirating? I don't think I am even bootlegging.
The main thing keeping me from doing it more (I hardly ever do anymore) is that I just don't have time to watch things. I have taken to running what little I do grab at 1.5x to 2x so I can spare the time. Now, not running that fast seems intolerably glacial.
All that said, hoarding is a common symptom of depression. Treating depression is a very, very good idea.
I object to the term "pirating" here. Piracy involves depriving people of life and property. You are not doing anything like that. Bootlegging might be a tolerably apt term. Bootlegging is just bypassing onerous restrictions and taxes, with an admixture of freeloading.
My wife pays for various channels, but I torrent the same content because the experience is radically better. Am I pirating? I don't think I am even bootlegging.
The main thing keeping me from doing it more (I hardly ever do anymore) is that I just don't have time to watch things. I have taken to running what little I do grab at 1.5x to 2x so I can spare the time. Now, not running that fast seems intolerably glacial.
All that said, hoarding is a common symptom of depression. Treating depression is a very, very good idea.
Dump the movies on a backup service, why do you need a full copy locally
Golden rule of data: "90% of it is not accessed after 3 months"
Golden rule of data: "90% of it is not accessed after 3 months"
Wouldnt this just cost even more?
Could use personal plan from Backblaze for 7$ a month
https://www.backblaze.com/cloud-backup.html
I'm sure there's alternatives
https://www.hetzner.com/de/storage/storage-box
https://www.backblaze.com/cloud-backup.html
I'm sure there's alternatives
https://www.hetzner.com/de/storage/storage-box
Why not just pay $5/mo for a Plex share with tens of thousands of the most popular movies and TV shows?
I haven't torrented or paid for content in years. If I want to watch something and it's not on the server, I message the admin in Bangalore and he adds it.
Sure I don't "have" the content in the sense it's not sitting on spinning disks, but I don't care. Life is too short to try to collect widely available digital media.
I haven't torrented or paid for content in years. If I want to watch something and it's not on the server, I message the admin in Bangalore and he adds it.
Sure I don't "have" the content in the sense it's not sitting on spinning disks, but I don't care. Life is too short to try to collect widely available digital media.
One of the advantages of local storage is that internet outages don't necessarily affect your ability to watch some shows. One of the main advantages that streaming has for me over live TV is the ability to watch things when I want to, without restrictions.
Don't even get me started about commercials. Amazon Prime has been putting up movies without commercials, and then adding commercials later. This has bit our movie group a few times lately. Very frustrating.
Don't even get me started about commercials. Amazon Prime has been putting up movies without commercials, and then adding commercials later. This has bit our movie group a few times lately. Very frustrating.
> One of the advantages of local storage is that internet outages don't necessarily affect your ability to watch some shows.
This came to a head for me not too long ago when my internet went out for a little while. I told my wife we could just watch the antenna TV, and she simply couldn't grok the idea that TV signals were coming to the house without the internet working.
This came to a head for me not too long ago when my internet went out for a little while. I told my wife we could just watch the antenna TV, and she simply couldn't grok the idea that TV signals were coming to the house without the internet working.
Collecting the media can be almost 100% automated with sonarr and radarr. Getting content can be even easier than messaging an admin.
Never heard of this. Where would one find such a service?
/r/PlexShares! Lots of options, they all have largely the same stuff. There are also more specialized ones if you want anime, Bollywood, K-dramas, etc.
Just shop around and find one with a free trial. It's not very automated, so you'll have to chat with them over Discord, but once it's set up it's completely hands-off. Good luck!
Just shop around and find one with a free trial. It's not very automated, so you'll have to chat with them over Discord, but once it's set up it's completely hands-off. Good luck!
Reddit [0], for one. I'm beyond sure that Discord has at least one community for this as well, but somehow piracy feels morally okay compared to Discord silo-ing off areas of the internet - ergo, I have no link, sorry.
[0] https://old.reddit.com/r/plexshares/
[0] https://old.reddit.com/r/plexshares/
Plot twist, OP is the admin in Bangalore.
How long do you think that's going to last?
IPTV boxes still exist so these will last forever since they are still quite obscure .
What these Plex share owners do is advertise first . Reach the number of users they need then go private and it becomes invite only . This what happened to the one I joined and it's perfect for 2 years now .
What I find odd about these Plex shares is the insane catalog they have which includes Vhs rips of obscure 1980s slasher films
What these Plex share owners do is advertise first . Reach the number of users they need then go private and it becomes invite only . This what happened to the one I joined and it's perfect for 2 years now .
What I find odd about these Plex shares is the insane catalog they have which includes Vhs rips of obscure 1980s slasher films
Some servers allow you to sync the content on your devices as it's possible with Plex you often just need to ask them.
Very helpful when flying for 30h
Very helpful when flying for 30h
For more of this/more people like OP, see /r/datahoarder
Yep, I'm subscribed.
I also do some digital archiving work (I don't want to get into specifics for anonymity sake), but since that's text it only takes up about 12TB right now. If I run out of space I delete some video.
I also do some digital archiving work (I don't want to get into specifics for anonymity sake), but since that's text it only takes up about 12TB right now. If I run out of space I delete some video.
Why do you need 30TB? You can always download again if you need to watch again.
Many countries outside of the US don't have unlimited[0] bandwidth ISPs. So downloading again and again is not feasible everywhere.
0. US ISPs are capped but in the TB range so most people never reach the cap.
0. US ISPs are capped but in the TB range so most people never reach the cap.
and you don't need bandwidth for netflix?
Citation for [0]?
I've even read the fine print for my current ISP here in the US. Unless you mean cap as in it's not possible to download more than that per month because your download speed is too low.
I've even read the fine print for my current ISP here in the US. Unless you mean cap as in it's not possible to download more than that per month because your download speed is too low.
[deleted]
You can see some ISPs at the bottom of this page[0] with caps like Xfinity and CenturyLink. Although it seems like they are soft caps and don't penalize unless you exceed the cap every month.
0. https://www.cnet.com/home/internet/best-internet-providers-w...
0. https://www.cnet.com/home/internet/best-internet-providers-w...
not always true for niche content.
Clearly you've never found a torrent that has exactly what you want, but zero seeders.
On the rare occasion? Sure. Certainly not near 30TB of them.
Then I guess you only watch extremely popular stuff? It's easy to get stuck trying to find moderately successful shows or games from the 90s. Kenan & Kel was a gigantic pain to find. I'm never going to delete that.
There is watching unpopular stuff and there is watching 30 TB of unpopular stuff.
UK internet is kinda pants, you can stream 4k on netflix no issues but try streaming from a pirate site or service like popcorntime and you will be kicked back to standard definition and have a lot of buffering to deal with.
In the UK sites like the pirate bay get censored, there are mirrors but they too get censored. Once you find a site you can easily get US content like the US version of the office but the UK version of the office will be harder to find.
You can buy 30TB of spinning disk for ~£600 which is a fair chunk of money but for comparison my 100mbit internet costs £300 a year. To get all your content instantly in one place in hd with no buffering I would say its worth it.
In the UK sites like the pirate bay get censored, there are mirrors but they too get censored. Once you find a site you can easily get US content like the US version of the office but the UK version of the office will be harder to find.
You can buy 30TB of spinning disk for ~£600 which is a fair chunk of money but for comparison my 100mbit internet costs £300 a year. To get all your content instantly in one place in hd with no buffering I would say its worth it.
When Netflix first launched, it was great - they had a massive catalogue of older/pre-existing content, and were making a bunch of their own new, original content that likely wouldn't have been made elsewhere. Their UX was also pretty great - and made finding interesting content easy.
They made it dead-easy to sign up, there was no pushy retention teams or hoops to jump through if you wanted to cancel. That's why I paid them.
Amazon Video launched here, and they had some content that I was interested in, but their UX from day one has been awful. They insist on adding pre-roll ads, despite that I'm paying them. The video quality was pretty awful and was quite regularly at something like 480p quality on my (4k) TV. Yes their X-Ray tech is neat, but the ads just drive me up the wall.
There was a time that I would've happily paid for HBO - they had/have some really great content (at least in the US), but they are or were not available in AU outside of a $120+/month PayTV device that I really didn't want.
Now there are dozens of streaming services, with their own $15-30/month fees, which will have (or not) selections of some of the content I want, each with their own uniquely awful and annoying interfaces or quirks of whether they will or won't play on my TV or device.
They made it dead-easy to sign up, there was no pushy retention teams or hoops to jump through if you wanted to cancel. That's why I paid them.
Amazon Video launched here, and they had some content that I was interested in, but their UX from day one has been awful. They insist on adding pre-roll ads, despite that I'm paying them. The video quality was pretty awful and was quite regularly at something like 480p quality on my (4k) TV. Yes their X-Ray tech is neat, but the ads just drive me up the wall.
There was a time that I would've happily paid for HBO - they had/have some really great content (at least in the US), but they are or were not available in AU outside of a $120+/month PayTV device that I really didn't want.
Now there are dozens of streaming services, with their own $15-30/month fees, which will have (or not) selections of some of the content I want, each with their own uniquely awful and annoying interfaces or quirks of whether they will or won't play on my TV or device.
I can't imagine anyone at 'Amazon Video' actually uses the service, else they'd realise that the UI is horrific...and whole service is terrible. I only have it as its "free" with my delivery options.
It works well enough if you’re just playing content you already have and not searching.
I watch some shows on Amazon Prime Video despite the shitty UI because they are great but it does mean that I do no discovery through the app.
I don't think its a revenue generator for them, I think its we have to have X. Music, video, etc. Look at Audiable, still exists kind of outside of Amazon.com
If they really want to make it into a thing, it cannot be within amazon.com. Call it something else, rip out and make it into a service not an addon to prime.
If they really want to make it into a thing, it cannot be within amazon.com. Call it something else, rip out and make it into a service not an addon to prime.
I kinda get that. But why not just tidy that UI up, and make it a good viewing experience and who knows maybe more of us will watch the seasons they have available and rent/purchase the ones that aren't. Instead of the car wreck of a UI experience
And if they have the content you're looking for today, it'll be gone next week...
I have a decent rip of The Expanse and an amazon prime account!
if they did it right, its a great reason to go legit. But I agree entirely with everything you just said
"When Netflix first launched, it was great - they had a massive catalogue of older/pre-existing content, and were making a bunch of their own new, original content that likely wouldn't have been made elsewhere."
The movie selection on NetFlix's DVD service[1] is still fantastic.
The movie selection on their streaming service[2] is absolutely atrocious.
Not sure what accounts for the discrepancy.
[1] - https://dvd.netflix.com/
[2] - https://www.netflix.com/
The movie selection on NetFlix's DVD service[1] is still fantastic.
The movie selection on their streaming service[2] is absolutely atrocious.
Not sure what accounts for the discrepancy.
[1] - https://dvd.netflix.com/
[2] - https://www.netflix.com/
They used to be the only bidder now they are bidding against dozens of streaming services competing in different niches. Their DVD business has no competition.
You'd think that with all that competition, NetFlix's streaming service would be much better in order to compete with other companies (which have a far better selection). But somehow they get away with having a crappy selection, despite having lots of competitors.
Conversely, since NetFlix's DVD service doesn't have any competitors they could get away with having a crappy selection, but they have a great selection, and it's been great for at least a decade.
So it still doesn't make sense.
Conversely, since NetFlix's DVD service doesn't have any competitors they could get away with having a crappy selection, but they have a great selection, and it's been great for at least a decade.
So it still doesn't make sense.
Cost of adding a niche title to NF DVD service is probably less than $1000, since they won't need many copies. I doubt they can get streaming rights for any feature length film still in copyright for under $1000.
Amazon Prime Video does it, as does Youtube.
Both of these have way, way, way better selections than NetFlix streaming.
Both of these have way, way, way better selections than NetFlix streaming.
You also get director commentary, more foreign language audio and DVD specials that you don’t get with streaming.
The DVD service wasn't available outside the US, as far as I understand.
The reason they can rent-out DVD titles from anyone, is because of the First-Sale doctrine[1] in the US. Basically, once they buy the DVD, they can do with it what they want. It's the same law that lets libraries operate.
With streaming, they need permission of the copyright holders. Who, at first, were all "Who gives a shit about streaming, it doesn't make any money and the quality is shit". Once Netflix proved out how to do it right - then all the studios realised there was money to be made by doing their own platform (even if you do a shitty job of it)
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine
The reason they can rent-out DVD titles from anyone, is because of the First-Sale doctrine[1] in the US. Basically, once they buy the DVD, they can do with it what they want. It's the same law that lets libraries operate.
With streaming, they need permission of the copyright holders. Who, at first, were all "Who gives a shit about streaming, it doesn't make any money and the quality is shit". Once Netflix proved out how to do it right - then all the studios realised there was money to be made by doing their own platform (even if you do a shitty job of it)
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine
I have a subscription to Disney+ here in Thailand...
1. I could not download the right Disney+ app on my Android TV because my Google account is French
2. I could download the right app on my iPhone (after temporarily switching stores which is a PITA) so I bought a cable to stream from my iPhone to my TV but the app doesn’t allow me to
3. I bought a Raspberry Pi and installed Plex and al. I can now watch the Disney movies easily on my TV.
I have a subscription to Netflix…
1. I went off-internet for a week, so I synced a couple of movies to be available offline.
2. I started watching one on the first day and 48h hours later it expired…
3. Next time I will use my Plex setup!
I must be very dumb to keep paying for these two subscriptions!
1. I could not download the right Disney+ app on my Android TV because my Google account is French
2. I could download the right app on my iPhone (after temporarily switching stores which is a PITA) so I bought a cable to stream from my iPhone to my TV but the app doesn’t allow me to
3. I bought a Raspberry Pi and installed Plex and al. I can now watch the Disney movies easily on my TV.
I have a subscription to Netflix…
1. I went off-internet for a week, so I synced a couple of movies to be available offline.
2. I started watching one on the first day and 48h hours later it expired…
3. Next time I will use my Plex setup!
I must be very dumb to keep paying for these two subscriptions!
Where are you paying 45$/month for power on a single computer. The moon?
If we assume the computer consumes 200 Watt in average, the electricity price would be something like 0,32 USD per kWh. So probably Germany, Denmark or Belgium.
That's a very pessimistic estimate for idling PC-based storage box.
The story looks faked all over the place. 30 TB? I have as much, and the storage price was maybe $600 last year.
The story looks faked all over the place. 30 TB? I have as much, and the storage price was maybe $600 last year.
The rest of the computer costs money too. They maybe overpaid a bit, but it's not totally unreasonable.
If one want cost savings, why do they need a separate computer? And if the need is somehow there, you could always buy a used one.
I have no idea what HDD prices were like the past few years. I recently bought an 18TB HDD for 280 Euros. Much of it is for pirated stuff. Thing is ... there are benefits to having the content locally that aren't priced into paying for streaming sites. There are things I can't watch on Netflix/Amazon, for example, and I have a consistent level of quality. I would need the storage one way or another, so I don't really count it towards pirating. Electricity? I pay for that either way, whether I'm pirating or not. I'll pay for a seedbox or usenet, but that's still only 50-80 Euros total. If I paid for everything I pirate, that would be hundreds every month on top of electricity and storage.
[deleted]
The way I read it he is including the computer in that $1200 cost. Seems realistic, that's about what my computer (surplus Supermicro server) with a similar amount of storage came out to.
I got a pretty nice case too. The computer was my old desktop when I upgraded, so I'm only sort of counting it. It wasn't a budget build.
It depends how much redundancy they have. They could have 30TB mirrored, which means 60TB worth of physical drives.
Hard drive prices fluctuate a lot. I put this together in early 2018.
In early 2018 an 8TB seagate drive cost ~$200 according to https://jcmit.net/diskprice.htm .
I'm also counting usable storage, not snapraid or anything like that. The reality is it's 39.12 TiB not counting SSD cache.
> The story looks faked all over the place.
I also bought a pretty nice case that can store 10+ hard drives, and a PCIe sata adapter. I probably could have done it for cheaper, but that's not really a reason to call me a liar is it? Why would anyone fake this?
In early 2018 an 8TB seagate drive cost ~$200 according to https://jcmit.net/diskprice.htm .
I'm also counting usable storage, not snapraid or anything like that. The reality is it's 39.12 TiB not counting SSD cache.
> The story looks faked all over the place.
I also bought a pretty nice case that can store 10+ hard drives, and a PCIe sata adapter. I probably could have done it for cheaper, but that's not really a reason to call me a liar is it? Why would anyone fake this?
Don't take it personally. I am just being skeptical because you created a new account. Does the country where you are actively prosecute piracy, or are you a public person, who does not want their relationship with copyright disclosed for the sake of keeping public image?
My regular account is pretty closely related to me professionally. My current country does not activity prosecute piracy but there's no telling what the future will bring career wise. It's not only prosecution that I'd be worried about, it's also persecution.
200w idle is kind of insane though.
In what world is a server that presumably sits most of the day doing nothing averaging 200W 24/7?
If that content is sourced from torrents you'll have a lot of disks spinning all the time just to seed tiny chunks so that's not unreasonable.
OP probably only has 5-6 drives at most (more likely 3x 10TB), which should draw 15W-20W each _at most_, and that's at 100% utilization not reading a small file.
Also, OP included a Usenet subscription in their costs so they might not be torrenting at all.
Also, OP included a Usenet subscription in their costs so they might not be torrenting at all.
Sounds like Germany right now.
making 30TB out of 5T drives would need 12 disks with mirroring. That's a bunch of power. It might also be a dual-socket Xeon, for that ECC
Who's going to mirror some low bitrate files they can download again off the internet.
If anything, assume something more reasonable like, 4x8 2x parity drives. 6 of those, that'd be $1200.
If anything, assume something more reasonable like, 4x8 2x parity drives. 6 of those, that'd be $1200.
I too tried to get into usenet for downloading shows I wanted to watch, but I couldn't justify the cost (in time) that it would take to build/maintain a system that automatically downloads the latest episodes of select shows.
I deal w/ software all day at work. As I've gotten older, the less I want to also deal w/ software at home.
I deal w/ software all day at work. As I've gotten older, the less I want to also deal w/ software at home.
Aside from the initial fiddling I have not needed to do much of anything to my setup. It's all containerized and unraid's manager keeps them up to date for me.
Sounds like a great setup, do you have any references to guides so I can set up my own?
[deleted]
When I see stuff like this, I wonder where those people find all that time to watch tv shows.
Welcome to Hacker News where everyone makes $500k/year and nobody pays for content. Or at least it feels that way sometimes. I don't make that much money but I also don't pay for content.
Sometimes you can't even buy (or rent) the content because of georestrictions. At least I often encounter TV shows and movies that are available in some US streaming service, but are not available in our version of the same service, or the entire service is not available.
I mean, you can justify it any way you like - there's no referee, no judge, no one to stop you. I just don't bother with the justifications myself; it is what it is.
There's an easy solution if you want the clear conscience of paying creators but the freedom of actually controlling the content you paid for. Buy, then pirate. Don't even bother with ever accessing your crippled purchase.
I usually get the DVDs in that case, if possible. Some of the newest content isn’t available on DVD but most of the older stuff is.
If you're buying secondhand DVD's, and I don't see how you aren't because who's still producing DVD's (or even, who's producing Blurays for older content), then you're on the same level as people who pirate from the eyes of publishers and media conglomerates. You might feel better about yourself, but it's a quirk of history that they haven't been able to make secondhand sales illegal.
You can purchase abroad and ship to your country. Amazon for example has country local stuff. Use the .xy for whichever country you want to search in (.com for US, .de for Germany, etc) and see if they have what you want.
They may also ship to you internationally.
They may also ship to you internationally.
If Amazon.differentcc sells something that Amazon.yourcc doesn't why wouldn't Amazon the global org set you up with an international sale. Surely that would make them lots of €¥$£ more?
The problem with Amazon is that my nearest Amazon, and the one that actually reliably ships to me, is Amazon.de. And the media on Amazon.de is usually German media, if there is even any media available. And I'm not German.
Just looking at a couple of shows that I watched a year ago, I couldn't actually find any of them on Amazon.de. And actually, only found one on Amazon.com, where it was unavailable. Also, the Chinese version for some reason?
Just looking at a couple of shows that I watched a year ago, I couldn't actually find any of them on Amazon.de. And actually, only found one on Amazon.com, where it was unavailable. Also, the Chinese version for some reason?
In college I pirated things when I was living off a few hundred bucks a month. But nowadays when I'm making good money I pay for everything. Its frankly absurd to steal content when you're that well paid.
Paying for things you don't have to pay for is a quick way to lose money, no matter how much you make.
But that excuse justifies much more than digital piracy. You don't "have to pay for" a car if you can steal one.
The secret ingredient is crime.
We need a public library for cars!
But imagine if you could ride a single lamborgini for free anywhere you want, or:
Pay $10,000 for a KIA that can only goto McDonalds and Burger King, then buy a $15,000 chevy that's the only car that works on the road to to work, then pay $5,000 for a ford that is the only vehicle that will take you to Burger King and the Apple store, but it stops every 5 minutes to show you the same ad repeated 3 times, and the only car that will take you to grandms's house is $30,000 and for some reason it requires 12 cars worth of parking spots. Taco Bell will only be accepting Mazdas starting in August, so you've got to decide what you want to do about that. Also there's no cars you can buy at any price that can go anywhere you want. Nobody sells the lamborgini you can drive anywhere for free.
Anyways, that's why pirating is good.
Pay $10,000 for a KIA that can only goto McDonalds and Burger King, then buy a $15,000 chevy that's the only car that works on the road to to work, then pay $5,000 for a ford that is the only vehicle that will take you to Burger King and the Apple store, but it stops every 5 minutes to show you the same ad repeated 3 times, and the only car that will take you to grandms's house is $30,000 and for some reason it requires 12 cars worth of parking spots. Taco Bell will only be accepting Mazdas starting in August, so you've got to decide what you want to do about that. Also there's no cars you can buy at any price that can go anywhere you want. Nobody sells the lamborgini you can drive anywhere for free.
Anyways, that's why pirating is good.
Before this devolves into an argument about piracy, let me begin by saying the reason I pirate is because I feel fine doing so. I don't care about any arguments for why others might think I shouldn't. I'm simply not bothered by it.
Back to discussion, I agree that saving money could apply to almost anything. However my first point is that, in my opinion, there's a material difference between digital piracy and stealing a car. If I possess a car, nobody else can own it. However with digital media, I'm making a copy of something that has zero impact on anybody else's ability to own their own copy of that data. The only thing that's lost is my physical storage space that could've stored something else, but that's my call to make.
A second point is that I mainly pirate things I wouldn't have bought otherwise. I still watch movies in theaters because I can't pirate a theater experience (AMC A-list is great if you enjoy watching in the theaters IMO), I still buy modern games because I'm extremely cautious when it comes to running executables.
A third point is that ethically, I consider supporting a mega-corporation like Amazon worse than committing piracy. Mega-corporations commit much more morally heinous actions, and at an enormously greater scale, than an average pirate would ever commit. In my opinion, the moral sin is not that pirates commit piracy, it's that mega-corporations have been given almost free rein to shape and exploit our society as they see fit
Back to discussion, I agree that saving money could apply to almost anything. However my first point is that, in my opinion, there's a material difference between digital piracy and stealing a car. If I possess a car, nobody else can own it. However with digital media, I'm making a copy of something that has zero impact on anybody else's ability to own their own copy of that data. The only thing that's lost is my physical storage space that could've stored something else, but that's my call to make.
A second point is that I mainly pirate things I wouldn't have bought otherwise. I still watch movies in theaters because I can't pirate a theater experience (AMC A-list is great if you enjoy watching in the theaters IMO), I still buy modern games because I'm extremely cautious when it comes to running executables.
A third point is that ethically, I consider supporting a mega-corporation like Amazon worse than committing piracy. Mega-corporations commit much more morally heinous actions, and at an enormously greater scale, than an average pirate would ever commit. In my opinion, the moral sin is not that pirates commit piracy, it's that mega-corporations have been given almost free rein to shape and exploit our society as they see fit
You'd be denying someone else use of the car. Stealing, especially of physical things, is a far greater moral wrong than copyright infringement.
I understand, but that was not the argument I was replying to. The original comment was far broader.
Nobody lets me pay for content. They're all tying themselves in contractual knots trying to find the most lucrative deal, and meanwhile it's impossible to just buy a movie or a TV show without shipping a physical disc.
I go to e.g. the South Park website, and I'm greeted by an error message saying they're "working hard to resolve [their] pre-existing contractual obligations," which is the same message they've shown for years. Thanks for trying, I guess, but if I pirated it then I'd just...watch the show, from start to finish, with all seasons and all episodes, no wasteful physical media, no subscription, no data collection, and no ads. That sounds good. I want to be able to pay money, maybe even quite a lot of money, and do that.
I go to e.g. the South Park website, and I'm greeted by an error message saying they're "working hard to resolve [their] pre-existing contractual obligations," which is the same message they've shown for years. Thanks for trying, I guess, but if I pirated it then I'd just...watch the show, from start to finish, with all seasons and all episodes, no wasteful physical media, no subscription, no data collection, and no ads. That sounds good. I want to be able to pay money, maybe even quite a lot of money, and do that.
Is it really so hard to watch something else?
When I see all the justifications I wonder who are they for? If you feel the need to justify it to semi-anonymous people on the internet, then you're probably trying to justify it to yourself which means you think what you're doing is wrong.
It's not a justification, just an explanation of what needs to change if people want me to pay for that content. Like I say I pretty much never pirate things if they're on steam, I've probably paid tens of thousands out to steam over the years.
(That being said, I do have access to cable television, netflix, and amazon prime streaming as well as the piracy setup, so people are getting paid. I'm not going to go buy a bunch of old red-dwarf and dilbert DVDs though, they just take up too much space)
(That being said, I do have access to cable television, netflix, and amazon prime streaming as well as the piracy setup, so people are getting paid. I'm not going to go buy a bunch of old red-dwarf and dilbert DVDs though, they just take up too much space)
You started the post with "I have a confession". I felt that guilt was implied.
Ahh, fair enough. I meant it more as just a turn of phrase, implying that it's a sordid affair. A little bit implying that I was going again church heterodoxy, that there were pressures to feel guilty. More "gay in the 70's" than "burn down an orphanage".
* against church orthodoxy
Man-- I don't steal content, because I've made a lot of money from IP and I think other people deserve for their work to be rewarded.
But I'm so jealous of the user experience for people who buy into a $5/mo plex and get better service than I'm paying for. IMO, that's broken.
So much time wasted, figuring out what service to watch something on, dealing with content ads, bad user interfaces... having content vanish and become unavailable, etc.
I don't even watch much video, but it's still way too much of a sink on my time.
But I'm so jealous of the user experience for people who buy into a $5/mo plex and get better service than I'm paying for. IMO, that's broken.
So much time wasted, figuring out what service to watch something on, dealing with content ads, bad user interfaces... having content vanish and become unavailable, etc.
I don't even watch much video, but it's still way too much of a sink on my time.
I don't have to justify myself to you and do not intend to. I don't actually pirate anything, regardless.
My intent is that someone somewhere reads this and decides to let me buy their damn content. It's not a justification, it's an appeal. Put your album on bandcamp. Put your game on itch/gog/your own website/humble bundle, preferable without intrusive DRM. I have no idea where you'd put a movie or TV show, but there's probably some place.
Please.
My intent is that someone somewhere reads this and decides to let me buy their damn content. It's not a justification, it's an appeal. Put your album on bandcamp. Put your game on itch/gog/your own website/humble bundle, preferable without intrusive DRM. I have no idea where you'd put a movie or TV show, but there's probably some place.
Please.
Uh, you can actually buy south park from any number of providers. Amazon and iTunes both list Season 1 for $25. You don't need to only watch things on monthly streaming platforms.
Can you play the media without going through Amazon or Apple to do it? Is the quality guaranteed to be good when I choose to watch it? What kind of ads am I going to get when I click play? Even if there are no ads now, is that guaranteed to be the case forever?
Downloadable, ad free, and DRM free. Music has been selling that way for decades. I've spent thousands on that kind of media, I'd have spent 10 times as much if it had been made available that way. Some people purchase a controlled versions to atone for their pirating sins but that just rewards consumer-hostile business models, and most of the money goes to middle-men that only add negative value to the product they're selling.
Downloadable, ad free, and DRM free. Music has been selling that way for decades. I've spent thousands on that kind of media, I'd have spent 10 times as much if it had been made available that way. Some people purchase a controlled versions to atone for their pirating sins but that just rewards consumer-hostile business models, and most of the money goes to middle-men that only add negative value to the product they're selling.
It sounds like you have a lot of concerns about this that all kind of conveniently put you in a place to pirate whatever you want.
Most of the time I watch things once, so I rent it if it's not on a platform I subscribe to. Generally then I can watch it on my tv, ps4, phone, computer, whatever.
Consider that money spent on these products are an indication to studios about what people like. Movie studios, production companies, they make stuff they think they can sell for a profit. I suggest that you try renting movies or buying ones you like. If you run into a situation where one of your concerns comes to life, I think it would be very reasonable to pirate something you've made a good faith effort to pay for. This is kind of how I started and now for the most part I rent/buy with some exceptions. Still downloading some trash tv shows.
Most of the time I watch things once, so I rent it if it's not on a platform I subscribe to. Generally then I can watch it on my tv, ps4, phone, computer, whatever.
Consider that money spent on these products are an indication to studios about what people like. Movie studios, production companies, they make stuff they think they can sell for a profit. I suggest that you try renting movies or buying ones you like. If you run into a situation where one of your concerns comes to life, I think it would be very reasonable to pirate something you've made a good faith effort to pay for. This is kind of how I started and now for the most part I rent/buy with some exceptions. Still downloading some trash tv shows.
I don't need any excuses to download whatever I want. It doesn't cost anyone anything, and no suffering of any kind is introduced into the world for anyone.
Most, if not all, things I've downloaded, which isn't much, I've either rented before, seen on TV or in a theater, or have been on one of the streaming services I pay for at some point. Does that cover me ethically? Some people seem to think so. I personally don't care either way and not a single person on this planet is any worse off for my lack of concern.
Most, if not all, things I've downloaded, which isn't much, I've either rented before, seen on TV or in a theater, or have been on one of the streaming services I pay for at some point. Does that cover me ethically? Some people seem to think so. I personally don't care either way and not a single person on this planet is any worse off for my lack of concern.
Yeah sure, it doesn't really matter. But no need to pretend like it's a service issue at this point. My experience with renting/buying content has been that they're pretty convenient and there aren't many service issues I've run into.
Actually it's kind of easier than torrenting and copying files around to various devices I want to watch it on.
Actually it's kind of easier than torrenting and copying files around to various devices I want to watch it on.
Can buy them or can you only "buy" them aka rent them for a fixed fee for an indefinite but inevitably finite periord with restrictions on how and where you can watch them?
Sure, unfortunately if you buy something on iTunes, it isn't available on amazon and vice versa. I guess you just have to look at your devices and pick a platform based on that. Most of the time I just rent a movie and watch and it expires so it's not really a problem I deal with a lot. I just rent the movie right before I watch it. It's pretty convenient.
Do both. Pay for it to give the creators their cut and send a market signal. Then go pirate it rather than fighting with DRM crippled interfaces.
I buy all my stuff on iTunes. But that alone won't allow me to put a 4K HDR movie on a USB stick to watch it offline on my TV.
In my opinion, the most practical solution is to buy things (for the ethics) and then crack the DRM anyway (for usability).
In my opinion, the most practical solution is to buy things (for the ethics) and then crack the DRM anyway (for usability).
Rewarding consumer-hostile business models and middle-men that only add negative value to the products they're selling is, in my opinion, unethical.
While I agree with you, these middlemen at least pay some money to the original content creators. With pure pirating, there's no feedback to the movie company that I liked their offering.
[deleted]
There's so much free (as in beer) content on the web that you don't even need to pirate stuff, either.
I used to not have any $, so I'd pirate. Then I had $, so I paid for stuff -- and, without fail, everything I paid for ended up giving me bullshit problems because of DRM restrictions. So now I don't pay for anything with DRM, which ends up meaning I mostly pirate.
I don't mind throwing down some cash, but I'm not going to throw down cash just to get fucked over.
I don't mind throwing down some cash, but I'm not going to throw down cash just to get fucked over.
Interested in how much content you have on those drives. Are you storing full bluray backups (40-100gb each), or are you doing like 10-15gb movies or the 2-6gb versions?
Depends on the content. For popular crap that I'm probably going to delete later I generally go for the 10-15GB option as finding a decent rip at a lower file size can be annoying (Latest marvel movies, etc). If something is sufficiently obscure or visually stunning I'll normally keep it at 10-15GB rips depending on the source material (Obscure horror movies, Dune). For regular stuff that I still want to have a copy of but that is popular enough I'm not worried it's going to disappear I go for the smaller versions (The expanse, adventure time).
Right now one of the biggest things on disk are a bunch of Boston Legal episodes. I have family that enjoy it, and I'm too lazy to find a good small release so it's taking up more space than it needs to.
I try to get HEVC encoded video where possible, and when I know there's a particular release group that produces high-quality I'll set up tags to prefer them.
Right now one of the biggest things on disk are a bunch of Boston Legal episodes. I have family that enjoy it, and I'm too lazy to find a good small release so it's taking up more space than it needs to.
I try to get HEVC encoded video where possible, and when I know there's a particular release group that produces high-quality I'll set up tags to prefer them.
Plex is trying to solve the `we've reached peak streaming` problem. From their blogpost[0]
> Today, we’re proud to be launching an entirely new section of Plex, focused on discovering, searching, and personalizing movies and TV shows across virtually any streaming service—whether it’s Plex’s own free movies and TV, or your other subscriptions like Netflix, Disney+, HBO Max
[0] https://www.plex.tv/blog/end-the-streaming-struggle-with-ple...
Worth giving it a shot. I haven't tried it, but it looks promising.
> Today, we’re proud to be launching an entirely new section of Plex, focused on discovering, searching, and personalizing movies and TV shows across virtually any streaming service—whether it’s Plex’s own free movies and TV, or your other subscriptions like Netflix, Disney+, HBO Max
[0] https://www.plex.tv/blog/end-the-streaming-struggle-with-ple...
Worth giving it a shot. I haven't tried it, but it looks promising.
On the flip, I just $20 for a plexshare and can watch whatever I like in 4k remux. I recommend instead of having this beast server. Let someone else worry about hardware.
Funniest thing: I've got a home cinema projector and somehow when I stream from Netflix (which I pay), it looks like shit. So I paid for an enhanced subscription, supposedly with better quality. Fiber optic at home: problem is not on my side. Still looks like shit.
So I sail the high seas and pirate the very movie I was about to watch: 600 Mbit/s symmetric fiber, download using torrents takes a few minutes tops.
Now I don't get it: how do the pirates who "webrip" those have access to the quality stream, when I get a shitty version? I mean: I get it when it's a BRRip (Blu-Ray Rip) but how can they do quality webrips? Why are they getting the quality version streamed when I get bad quality? It may not be noticeable on a regular TV but on the huge diagonal my home cinema projector does, it's night and day.
I don't hoard. Pirating costs nothing as I pay for my fiber optic line and downloading a movie takes a few minutes, during which wife makes tea, kid puts pyjamas on and I pour myself some drink.
> Streaming services still have significant service problems that need to be addressed.
Yup. Pirates makes a better job at providing a quality media compared to the shitty streaming services.
Now we plan to drop Netflix and take Disney for a while: I wonder if I'll also need to pirate the very thing they'll be streaming me or not.
So I sail the high seas and pirate the very movie I was about to watch: 600 Mbit/s symmetric fiber, download using torrents takes a few minutes tops.
Now I don't get it: how do the pirates who "webrip" those have access to the quality stream, when I get a shitty version? I mean: I get it when it's a BRRip (Blu-Ray Rip) but how can they do quality webrips? Why are they getting the quality version streamed when I get bad quality? It may not be noticeable on a regular TV but on the huge diagonal my home cinema projector does, it's night and day.
I don't hoard. Pirating costs nothing as I pay for my fiber optic line and downloading a movie takes a few minutes, during which wife makes tea, kid puts pyjamas on and I pour myself some drink.
> Streaming services still have significant service problems that need to be addressed.
Yup. Pirates makes a better job at providing a quality media compared to the shitty streaming services.
Now we plan to drop Netflix and take Disney for a while: I wonder if I'll also need to pirate the very thing they'll be streaming me or not.
To watch 4k on a desktop you need either windows 10/11 and Edge or a Mac.
My guess is you're either not using that combination or otherwise blocking DRM / features that prevent desktop 4k.
My guess is you're either not using that combination or otherwise blocking DRM / features that prevent desktop 4k.
Netflix won't play full quality stream except for on approved devices. If you have a projector that's running older version of Android it may literally be giving you a max 720p stream. Amazon prime video won't give 4k on a PC i believe.
> Now I don't get it: how do the pirates who "webrip" those have access to the quality stream
The front-end players (sometimes) have a UI element that allows you to explicitly set which bitrate is streamed. Otherwise, the player is beholden to what the connection speed deems appropriate. Regardless, if the original file was transcoded to include 1080p, 4k stream, they exist even if your player is downgrading based on a poor connection. This can feel like a loss of control, because it is. "But it's for our the user's own good."
When using tools like ffmpeg or similar, you can simply target the highest bitrate available.
If you ever try to download a ".m3u8" file you'll see it's more or less a manifest that lists all available bitrates.
The front-end players (sometimes) have a UI element that allows you to explicitly set which bitrate is streamed. Otherwise, the player is beholden to what the connection speed deems appropriate. Regardless, if the original file was transcoded to include 1080p, 4k stream, they exist even if your player is downgrading based on a poor connection. This can feel like a loss of control, because it is. "But it's for our the user's own good."
When using tools like ffmpeg or similar, you can simply target the highest bitrate available.
If you ever try to download a ".m3u8" file you'll see it's more or less a manifest that lists all available bitrates.
I have seen similar thoughts amongst friends who may or may not pirate (I never ask where they get their content), and I think of how my music consumption has changed over the last 20 years. When I got my first iPod, I felt rewarded for having ripped all of the few dozen CDs I owned to my iBook. The idea of having instant access to any song I owned was a feeling I loved, and one I've chased since then. It wasn't until streaming services hit a critical mass and I got back to a reasonable (then unlimited) data plan that I finally took my iPod Classic out of my car. My tastes aren't the same ten albums over and over - sometimes I want rock, sometimes pop, sometimes rap. Who knows.
Paying for content is getting really close to that, but I don't think it's there yet, in that I can't just decide to watch Papa's Delicate Condition [0] on Netflix or Disney+ or whatever service I subscribe to. There are a handful of random movies that I love, own on physical media, but can't just immediately consume when the mood hits. When things get there, I think piracy is in trouble. For many people, it's already there. For you, it may be close.
Streaming's biggest problems, to me, are that there are still so many, and the content libraries are incomplete. Disney+ is a great, well-stocked service, but there's some content that Disney has decided doesn't exist anymore (Song of the South - problematic as hell, for sure, but it existed), and for things like that, I wouldn't ever assume them to be available. Same for the unaltered versions of Star Wars. And if Netflix and Peloton have taught me anything, it's that content can go away over time (see my earlier argument about wanting access to content at random times). And of course, offline support - I fly on planes sometimes, or go places without Internet, and I'd like to take a little bit of content with me to be occupied.
0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papa%27s_Delicate_Condition
Paying for content is getting really close to that, but I don't think it's there yet, in that I can't just decide to watch Papa's Delicate Condition [0] on Netflix or Disney+ or whatever service I subscribe to. There are a handful of random movies that I love, own on physical media, but can't just immediately consume when the mood hits. When things get there, I think piracy is in trouble. For many people, it's already there. For you, it may be close.
Streaming's biggest problems, to me, are that there are still so many, and the content libraries are incomplete. Disney+ is a great, well-stocked service, but there's some content that Disney has decided doesn't exist anymore (Song of the South - problematic as hell, for sure, but it existed), and for things like that, I wouldn't ever assume them to be available. Same for the unaltered versions of Star Wars. And if Netflix and Peloton have taught me anything, it's that content can go away over time (see my earlier argument about wanting access to content at random times). And of course, offline support - I fly on planes sometimes, or go places without Internet, and I'd like to take a little bit of content with me to be occupied.
0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papa%27s_Delicate_Condition
> I built a computer with ~30TB of hard drive space. That, conservatively, cost me $1200.
I think that's reasonable (unfortunately). Storage isn't cheap.
> it's probably costing me around $45 per month in power
You don't need your PC running 24/7, and you don't need all your hard drives in your PC. I have one 12TB in my PC and two 12TB external HDDs for backup.
Personally I think piracy is incredibly frugal, the main cost comes from storage. I've almost maxed out my current setup of 12TB backed up across 3 hard drives, so I have to wait until a good price for >=12TB external HDDs before I can upgrade. Other than that, the ~10 bucks a month I pay for a seedbox less than a movie ticket lol.
I think that's reasonable (unfortunately). Storage isn't cheap.
> it's probably costing me around $45 per month in power
You don't need your PC running 24/7, and you don't need all your hard drives in your PC. I have one 12TB in my PC and two 12TB external HDDs for backup.
Personally I think piracy is incredibly frugal, the main cost comes from storage. I've almost maxed out my current setup of 12TB backed up across 3 hard drives, so I have to wait until a good price for >=12TB external HDDs before I can upgrade. Other than that, the ~10 bucks a month I pay for a seedbox less than a movie ticket lol.
> and it's probably costing me around $45 per month in power
where do you live that I don't move there ? I rarely ever paid more than 20-25€ / month for electricity for my whole appartment, with multiple computers running 24/7 lol
where do you live that I don't move there ? I rarely ever paid more than 20-25€ / month for electricity for my whole appartment, with multiple computers running 24/7 lol
All of this usually stem from lack of passion or goal in other areas of life.
Once you find right goal you won't have time for all this.
Speaking from personal experience
Once you find right goal you won't have time for all this.
Speaking from personal experience
I wouldn't say that. I have a similar setup and just find it easier for my parents, friends, kids, ect. to just have everything they need available through 1 app in Plex.
> So if I stopped pirating I'd have saved $1200 ...
Only if you stopped pirating before that point, otherwise you're describing a sunk cost fallacy. Which is not to discount your current opex.
Though $45 in power, I'm guessing you're in the USA?, does seem very high for a mostly idle CPU and a small volume of spinning rust + cooling.
Only if you stopped pirating before that point, otherwise you're describing a sunk cost fallacy. Which is not to discount your current opex.
Though $45 in power, I'm guessing you're in the USA?, does seem very high for a mostly idle CPU and a small volume of spinning rust + cooling.
I have certainly pirated things, but I never made a real habit or practice of it. Mostly it was because I found there was no way to get what I wanted legally or conveniently, usually because of bullshit "windowing" practices.
As an example: at my house, my wife and I mostly only watch things together. We don't spend a lot of time in front of the TV, and so the time we DO spend that way is intentional, and pulls from a list of stuff we BOTH like.
Our tastes are not in perfect accord, though, so there are a few things she watches when I'm working late, and there are some movies I save for when she's out of town or otherwise occupied. One of those was the critically acclaimed Sicario.
Well, when I sat down to watch it when she was camping with a pal, I discovered that it was no longer available to rent online. Or buy. It had been "windowed" out for some reason.
Fuck. That.
20 minutes later, I had it. I wanted to pay for it, but there was no option to do so.
Come to think of it, the same thing happened 20 years ago or so with Battlestar Galactica. For some reason, the rightsholder wasn't releasing the prior season on DVD or digitally until substantially AFTER the new season started airing. This meant that for latecomers like us, it was more or less impossible to "catch up" before the last season started, which is crazy. Again, we WOULD have paid, but they weren't taking money, so we got the content anyway so we could watch the current season in sync with everyone else.
I do wish we still had the "long tail" that Netflix initially offered, but digital delivery leaves rightsholders with, well, too many rights. Right of first sale meant Netflix could rent a given DVD or BluRay in perpetuity, and the copyright owner couldn't do anything about it. With digital delivery, that's no longer true, and it creates crazy situations like the above.
As an example: at my house, my wife and I mostly only watch things together. We don't spend a lot of time in front of the TV, and so the time we DO spend that way is intentional, and pulls from a list of stuff we BOTH like.
Our tastes are not in perfect accord, though, so there are a few things she watches when I'm working late, and there are some movies I save for when she's out of town or otherwise occupied. One of those was the critically acclaimed Sicario.
Well, when I sat down to watch it when she was camping with a pal, I discovered that it was no longer available to rent online. Or buy. It had been "windowed" out for some reason.
Fuck. That.
20 minutes later, I had it. I wanted to pay for it, but there was no option to do so.
Come to think of it, the same thing happened 20 years ago or so with Battlestar Galactica. For some reason, the rightsholder wasn't releasing the prior season on DVD or digitally until substantially AFTER the new season started airing. This meant that for latecomers like us, it was more or less impossible to "catch up" before the last season started, which is crazy. Again, we WOULD have paid, but they weren't taking money, so we got the content anyway so we could watch the current season in sync with everyone else.
I do wish we still had the "long tail" that Netflix initially offered, but digital delivery leaves rightsholders with, well, too many rights. Right of first sale meant Netflix could rent a given DVD or BluRay in perpetuity, and the copyright owner couldn't do anything about it. With digital delivery, that's no longer true, and it creates crazy situations like the above.
OK but most of us probably get away with just the 1TB drive we might not have otherwise added to our current computer. I'm a life long pirate and honestly never knew about "indexer subscriptions" or that usenet was something you could pay for.
Your fiscal problem is data hoarding, not piracy.
Your commitment to making sure your favorite TV shows never disappear into the void of indefinitely buffering cloud rentals is commendable.
Your fiscal problem is data hoarding, not piracy.
Your commitment to making sure your favorite TV shows never disappear into the void of indefinitely buffering cloud rentals is commendable.
It's not actually a problem, by any means. I live quite comfortably. The point I'm really trying to make here is that I would pay for things if it was convenient to do so. I'm already spending more money to do this myself, and if the industry was a bit better that money could be going to artists instead of hard drives.
I think the point being made by other people here still stands though. It's not piracy that costs you money. It's your desire to store/hoard huge amounts of data. Whether or not that's a problem is up to you, but if you deleted things after you watched them the costs would go down to nothing except 4the normal costs of running a computer.
I don't disagree with that point, you could probably find everything I've got on sketchy streaming sites if you spent enough time.
That's pretty much my method now a days.
Used to torrent a lot, but realized I'd forget what I actually had and ended up re-downloading a lot.
So now I just go on sketchy streaming sites. I have 2 that are good for movies/ty, 1 for animated content.
Maybe once a year something will go down and I'll find a new site, but it really is as easy as clicking through the first 10 links when googling "watch $movie online free" and picking the most reliable one.
In the extremely rare case I can't find something, I'll drop the 4 bucks or whatever on youtube movies or amazon prime. Probably only happens a few times a year.
~~~
Unrelated to the discussion, but still HN worthy, is how interesting these sites are when they operate.
Websites will constantly lift not just content but entire pages from each other. A lot of the time they'll even just change a X.com to an X.biz and add a banner saying "THIS IS THE REAL X, UPDATE YOUR BOOKMARKS!".
What are they going to do, take legal action?
I'm also suspecting everyone sources their movies from a very small set of places.
I tried watching the movie Multiplicity on one of these sites, but every single site hosted the first 4 minutes 27-ish seconds of it, exact same cut. It makes sense content propagates out, likely by automation. Everysite is a race to get the most ad clicks before getting shutdown.
A very interesting "industry"!
Used to torrent a lot, but realized I'd forget what I actually had and ended up re-downloading a lot.
So now I just go on sketchy streaming sites. I have 2 that are good for movies/ty, 1 for animated content.
Maybe once a year something will go down and I'll find a new site, but it really is as easy as clicking through the first 10 links when googling "watch $movie online free" and picking the most reliable one.
In the extremely rare case I can't find something, I'll drop the 4 bucks or whatever on youtube movies or amazon prime. Probably only happens a few times a year.
~~~
Unrelated to the discussion, but still HN worthy, is how interesting these sites are when they operate.
Websites will constantly lift not just content but entire pages from each other. A lot of the time they'll even just change a X.com to an X.biz and add a banner saying "THIS IS THE REAL X, UPDATE YOUR BOOKMARKS!".
What are they going to do, take legal action?
I'm also suspecting everyone sources their movies from a very small set of places.
I tried watching the movie Multiplicity on one of these sites, but every single site hosted the first 4 minutes 27-ish seconds of it, exact same cut. It makes sense content propagates out, likely by automation. Everysite is a race to get the most ad clicks before getting shutdown.
A very interesting "industry"!
I think there should be a distinction between data hoarding and piracy. One can consume pirated content without keeping it around, effectively looking a bit like just paying for a streaming service, since that's effectively what you get. One could also buy blurays and rip them, keeping the result around, and having the same cost to "hoard" that content on top of paying for the content itself.
For a while, I was in the camp of purchasing my content with the intent to hoard it. So I had the same problem with what it cost to do so. I ended up getting a dedicated NAS appliance specifically for this, and paying for better hardware to do the encoding I wanted faster.
You could look at your usenet and indexer subscriptions as your "streaming service" counterpart.
But I think the point you wanted to make is you do this because the preferred legitimate method of consuming media is onerous because licensing causes content to be kept from you, but piracy doesn't care. The idea being you're willing to pay for it if the legitimate means made it easier, or in some cases, made the content you want available at all.
But none of that matters in the case of hoarding. And hoarding will always have a much higher cost.
For a while, I was in the camp of purchasing my content with the intent to hoard it. So I had the same problem with what it cost to do so. I ended up getting a dedicated NAS appliance specifically for this, and paying for better hardware to do the encoding I wanted faster.
You could look at your usenet and indexer subscriptions as your "streaming service" counterpart.
But I think the point you wanted to make is you do this because the preferred legitimate method of consuming media is onerous because licensing causes content to be kept from you, but piracy doesn't care. The idea being you're willing to pay for it if the legitimate means made it easier, or in some cases, made the content you want available at all.
But none of that matters in the case of hoarding. And hoarding will always have a much higher cost.
It's not only onerous, but streaming services just suck. It's all hot garbage in AV1 or VP9 at a 10Mbps bitrate, which looks like crap. I know because I worked in this industry, how management would literally wet themselves over a slightly more efficient codec, so that they could dial down bitrates further while distracting people from terrible video compression artifacts. They also have problems keeping their services up, and few actually understand how to deliver video with adequate QoS (Netflix sort of gets it, but the rest just bolt on a generic CDN with terrible results). The average consumer doesn't notice because, well, they're blind and have crap AV equipment.
Anyway, if there was such thing as a "streaming service" that could stream high bitrate content, reliably, like uncompressed digital cinema or, at the very least, an Bluray that hasn't been transcoded, I would throw money at them hand over fist. But that is not the case, so I have to rely on alternatives.
Anyway, if there was such thing as a "streaming service" that could stream high bitrate content, reliably, like uncompressed digital cinema or, at the very least, an Bluray that hasn't been transcoded, I would throw money at them hand over fist. But that is not the case, so I have to rely on alternatives.
> they're blind and have crap AV equipment
We notice, but what are we going to do? Buy the Blu-ray?
There is actually an argument to be made for trying to deliver high quality content at the lowest acceptable bitrates. First, most people won't know the difference (ie: my parents), and second it seems like high speed internet is still the exception in many places.
In my old apartment, if I were to try to stream something 10mbit, I'd be hurting anything else trying to use my internet connection. I spent about a year trying to get office staff to work with the ISP they had an exclusive agreement with, and the end result was apartment staff didn't want to put in the effort and expense to upgrade the building. When I moved out, I made sure to move to a house with access to gigabit internet, and it was amazingly difficult to get. I don't live in a podunk town. I live in a major metropolitan area.
Poor quality was one of the reasons I, myself, opted to buy and rip. I paid for the lifetime Plex long ago and used that until Plex got too annoying and started requiring internet to function. I still keep a Jellyfin service up for content that I want but can't get streaming.
In my old apartment, if I were to try to stream something 10mbit, I'd be hurting anything else trying to use my internet connection. I spent about a year trying to get office staff to work with the ISP they had an exclusive agreement with, and the end result was apartment staff didn't want to put in the effort and expense to upgrade the building. When I moved out, I made sure to move to a house with access to gigabit internet, and it was amazingly difficult to get. I don't live in a podunk town. I live in a major metropolitan area.
Poor quality was one of the reasons I, myself, opted to buy and rip. I paid for the lifetime Plex long ago and used that until Plex got too annoying and started requiring internet to function. I still keep a Jellyfin service up for content that I want but can't get streaming.
There is no way to control your own media and not pirate these days. Other than music, find me legit DRM free media.
At least where I live in Europe, it's almost impossible to not pirate. The government has strict controls on media and so it's impossible to even get access to most movies. Netflix, Amazon Prime and other streaming sites have been completely neutered. HBO Go, Criterion, etc. are completely inaccessible.
In the US, it's a different story. Everything outside of Karagarga is available to be streamed, or at least purchased on Bluray/DVD. The only big thing is quality. Streaming has atrocious quality for the most part.
In the US, it's a different story. Everything outside of Karagarga is available to be streamed, or at least purchased on Bluray/DVD. The only big thing is quality. Streaming has atrocious quality for the most part.
I watched a lot of X-files on German free TV in the ’90s, and I only found out later that it was edited to remove the most graphic scenes. Imagine paying for streaming and not even getting the full content.
Most if not all of the editing in German free TV is done by the station to fit the show to the schedule (ad breaks, fixed time budget, afternoon slot requiring removal of graphic scenes, etc.)
Streaming should not have these problems.
Streaming should not have these problems.
Same with me. I watched the first seasons of Star Trek: Discovery on Netflix, but this year their contract ended. There is no service available in my country where I can legally watch it.
On the other hand nobody cares about torrents here, so at least I don't need to pay for usenet access to get it :-)
On the other hand nobody cares about torrents here, so at least I don't need to pay for usenet access to get it :-)
You're not missing much if you can't get series 2 onwards! The crew of all Star Trek ships now appear to need to have a group hug and good cry every episode and tell each staff member how important and unique they are rather than just solving problems in an interesting way.
[deleted]
Not sure where you're from, but for the most part it's not governments who are to blame (France is an exception). Copyright and rights management on a global scale is challenging, but the music industry made it work. It's up to the TV industry to do the same.
The governments are the only ones to blame. They created copyright privileges, and they have the power to revoke them but thus far have failed to do so. Everything negatively impacted by copyright is their fault.
Though in the case of the comment you're replying to, the tone suggests that the barrier to content being available legally is government censorship, not copyright or rights management.
Though in the case of the comment you're replying to, the tone suggests that the barrier to content being available legally is government censorship, not copyright or rights management.
I was trying to Listen to the album "Marching Out" by artist Yngwie Malmsteen. It is unavailable in Tidal, Spotify or Youtube Music both in the US and in Mexico. Spotify has it "indexed" [1] but you cannot actually play the full album.
The only way to stream it is through low quality Youtube rips. I've got the album in my mom's house on CD... it is stupid that I cannot listen to it in any of the 3 stream services I pay for.
[1] https://open.spotify.com/album/4gZ1yplfdbNfdh8DkBHWbM
The only way to stream it is through low quality Youtube rips. I've got the album in my mom's house on CD... it is stupid that I cannot listen to it in any of the 3 stream services I pay for.
[1] https://open.spotify.com/album/4gZ1yplfdbNfdh8DkBHWbM
As a 5TB MP3 hoarder myself (along with ~50GB/day of movie/TV pirating), I was curious as to how much content 30TB actually is, so I checked the average file size for my last 300 downloads of mostly 1080p shows and 2160p movies. They averaged 3GB, so that's roughly 10,000 pieces of long form video. Presuming an average bitrate of 14Mbps, 30TB is ~4,760 hours.
The average adult watches 3 hours per day. Given the OP's hobby-level interest in collecting the content, we can probably double that to 6 hours per day, which makes for 2.5 years worth of content.
Even though I'm squarely in the 6+ hour category, there are maybe 100 or so favorite movies that I've watched more than once, and once per year I'll re-watch a TV series (this year's revisit was Halt And Catch Fire). But even adding all of that together, we're talking about maybe 500 unique videos over ~20 years.
I can't wrap my head around needing to store 10,000 videos forever for the tiny chance that you might want to watch one that isn't still available through Usenet, private trackers or reasonable paid means.
The average adult watches 3 hours per day. Given the OP's hobby-level interest in collecting the content, we can probably double that to 6 hours per day, which makes for 2.5 years worth of content.
Even though I'm squarely in the 6+ hour category, there are maybe 100 or so favorite movies that I've watched more than once, and once per year I'll re-watch a TV series (this year's revisit was Halt And Catch Fire). But even adding all of that together, we're talking about maybe 500 unique videos over ~20 years.
I can't wrap my head around needing to store 10,000 videos forever for the tiny chance that you might want to watch one that isn't still available through Usenet, private trackers or reasonable paid means.
Why do you have 5tb of mp3?
Im the exact opposite I hoard all my video but stream all my music.
Im curious why not use a streaming service for music? Is there a reason to use a streaming service for video but not music?
Im the exact opposite I hoard all my video but stream all my music.
Im curious why not use a streaming service for music? Is there a reason to use a streaming service for video but not music?
I'm definitely an edge case for music. I've been obsessed with metal since the mid-90s, and have downloaded quite literally every release. Unfortunately, the streaming services don't seem to care much about having a complete (or even particularly good) catalog of metal, so some of my favorite bands and albums don't exist on those platforms. This is made worse due to a significant portion of metal bands being off the grid, with little-to-zero web presence outside of a Metal Archives[1] listing.
This obsession has led to developing a system for filtering releases into lists of albums that I actually enjoy, so I don't miss anything good. I download 100% of releases and throw all of them into Winamp, then play the second track -- there are a lot of atmospheric intro tracks in metal. If the first 1s doesn't grab me, I skip to about 0:30 and give it another 2-3s. If nothing grabs my attention or it's a sub-genre that I'm not interested in, the album gets removed from the playlist.
Anything remaining at the end gets a full track 2 play, and if the whole song meets my approval, I'll listen to the whole album. If the album is something I'd listen to more than a few times, it goes on the permanent playlist -- currently at ~450 albums and another ~500 random tracks.
[1] https://www.metal-archives.com/
This obsession has led to developing a system for filtering releases into lists of albums that I actually enjoy, so I don't miss anything good. I download 100% of releases and throw all of them into Winamp, then play the second track -- there are a lot of atmospheric intro tracks in metal. If the first 1s doesn't grab me, I skip to about 0:30 and give it another 2-3s. If nothing grabs my attention or it's a sub-genre that I'm not interested in, the album gets removed from the playlist.
Anything remaining at the end gets a full track 2 play, and if the whole song meets my approval, I'll listen to the whole album. If the album is something I'd listen to more than a few times, it goes on the permanent playlist -- currently at ~450 albums and another ~500 random tracks.
[1] https://www.metal-archives.com/
Ah yes that makes a lot of sense. Its such a shame it feels like metal is a dead genera in the west it gets no mainstream coverage. The scandinavian countries seem to be the only ones keeping it alive but as you say its all fairly underground the only place I can find that stuff is bandcamp but then you need to know the bands.
Thanks for the link hopefully I can find a few new bands to listen too.
Thanks for the link hopefully I can find a few new bands to listen too.
I agree on the issues. There's no legal way to watch TV shows without granting blanket internet access to apps where everyone knows that they shit on your privacy, spy on you, and sell the data to multiple advertisement networks.
The only way how I can keep my TV offline and put content on a USB stick is by breaking the DRM. It's literally necessary for privacy-preserving content consumption.
Plus the market has really weird incentives. I have disposable income and I'm happy to pay for ad-free content. And precisely because of that, they try extra hard to shove ads into my face.
The only way how I can keep my TV offline and put content on a USB stick is by breaking the DRM. It's literally necessary for privacy-preserving content consumption.
Plus the market has really weird incentives. I have disposable income and I'm happy to pay for ad-free content. And precisely because of that, they try extra hard to shove ads into my face.
I'm guessing you may be a bit older than the average demographic here, from a time when owning movies was expensive and thus the content was implied as being very exclusive and valuable. In others, I have seen this lead to the digital hoarding tendencies, wanting to keep all that content on hand.
Though I am from the same era, I don't generally find many movies or TV series that I really want to watch more than once. I have no desire to keep a large library of movies, they have almost zero value after the first watch (music is an entirely different thing though).
As others have pointed out, your costs are more due to the long term retention of the content, not the initial acquisition.
Personally, I prefer the path of least resistance, but the content has to be of decent quality and value. Thus, I am not interested in 5+ ~20/mo subscriptions to get access to the maybe 10 things I watch per month.
Though I am from the same era, I don't generally find many movies or TV series that I really want to watch more than once. I have no desire to keep a large library of movies, they have almost zero value after the first watch (music is an entirely different thing though).
As others have pointed out, your costs are more due to the long term retention of the content, not the initial acquisition.
Personally, I prefer the path of least resistance, but the content has to be of decent quality and value. Thus, I am not interested in 5+ ~20/mo subscriptions to get access to the maybe 10 things I watch per month.
"I don't generally find many movies or TV series that I really want to watch more than once. I have no desire to keep a large library of movies, they have almost zero value after the first watch"
I used to almost never rewatch movies, but I have kept track of what my favorite movies were, and when I've made friends with someone who was interested in seeing some of the movies that I liked then I'd find myself rewatching these movies with them (especially if it's been a really long time since I saw these movies and forgotten most of the details).
Also, some of my favorite movies are kind of obscure, so there's no guarantee they'd be available through streaming. Because of that it does make sense for me to archive films.
Even when the movies I like are available, why pay twice (or more) to watch them again?
I used to almost never rewatch movies, but I have kept track of what my favorite movies were, and when I've made friends with someone who was interested in seeing some of the movies that I liked then I'd find myself rewatching these movies with them (especially if it's been a really long time since I saw these movies and forgotten most of the details).
Also, some of my favorite movies are kind of obscure, so there's no guarantee they'd be available through streaming. Because of that it does make sense for me to archive films.
Even when the movies I like are available, why pay twice (or more) to watch them again?
I just watched Margin Call for probably the 5th or 6th time over the weekend. I love the movie, it's not particularly great in an objective sense, but Zach Quinto and Simon Baker in particular do great jobs in their roles. And some of the scenes are fantastic even in isolation.[0]
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Elyfo1DIlzs (6m 23s)
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Elyfo1DIlzs (6m 23s)
Sure, there are some movies we like to re-watch, but my point is that they all fit in a relatively small amount of space, a portable SSD for example. My costs to keep them available are almost nil. Much different than storing a local copy of all content we've ever viewed just because we technically can.
Also, a lot of content is online for long periods of time, if you downloaded it once, you can probably download it again. Free online storage basically ;)
Also, a lot of content is online for long periods of time, if you downloaded it once, you can probably download it again. Free online storage basically ;)
The added benefit of streaming services is there's an app for almost every device: all TVs, phones, iPads, computers, etc.. That alone is a killer feature you can't really replicate on your own.
Search Plex
Theres an app for that. Plex turns any computer into a streaming service and there are apps for almost every device including old smart tvs.
https://plex.tv/
https://plex.tv/
Torrents continue to thanklessly fill the gaps these services leave behind. Historic news and sports broadcasts are good examples. Regular season games are simply scrubbed after a few months, and the evening news archives stop after a few weeks. If I want to see an event unfold as it did, I need to download and serve myself before it's gone.
None of the streaming services allow you to watch purchased content at HD quality with Linux, and DRM is evil, so I don't use them. I don't really watch TV so it's not the end of the world for me, but they shouldn't be surprised at all that there's rampant piracy when you take the most high-skilled tech people and force them to pirate content to be able to watch it at all. It's ironic to me that we caved and let them put dangerous EME DRM crap (looking directly at you, W3C) in browsers and they still just locked out Linux users anyways. They've learned absolutely nothing from the DeCSS days, and the results are predictable: https://torrentfreak.com/google-takes-down-repositories-that...
RE the morality of it, as of right now, piracy is just a political act of resistance against this broken system to me. It's not about the cost, it's about not enabling this bad behavior to continue. I keep repeating the same thing over and over: as long as your eyeballs are made of flesh, the DRM protections will never stop piracy. Their only logical objective is violence: to throw my heroes in cages for doing things like legitimate security research, porting software to linux, etc.. and I don't want to support that (but again, I don't really watch TV so it's not much of a conundrum for me, but my condolences if "Is It Cake?" is something someone can't live without).
RE the morality of it, as of right now, piracy is just a political act of resistance against this broken system to me. It's not about the cost, it's about not enabling this bad behavior to continue. I keep repeating the same thing over and over: as long as your eyeballs are made of flesh, the DRM protections will never stop piracy. Their only logical objective is violence: to throw my heroes in cages for doing things like legitimate security research, porting software to linux, etc.. and I don't want to support that (but again, I don't really watch TV so it's not much of a conundrum for me, but my condolences if "Is It Cake?" is something someone can't live without).
I forgot about how much services absolutely suck on Linux even if you legally paid for them! I paid for Disney+ to watch Mandalorian and I spent an hour trying to watch it on my Linux device because I don't have a smart TV. Apparently Disney just outright blocks any Linux devices from using their service. I really hate piracy, but I hate DRM so so much more.
I never did get it to work either so I just cancelled the subscription
I never did get it to work either so I just cancelled the subscription
[deleted]
Here in Germany, it is almost impossible to pirate for free. If you download shows via BitTorrent you almost immediately get a fine ("Abmahnung"). There are some illegal streaming sites, but quality and reliability is poor in my experience.
But you can get a subscription to a VPN for about the same price as a Netflix subscription (~10€/month), that will allow you to torrent without worring about getting caught. Strangely, they manage to have an exit node in Frankfurt, and take credit card, although it is clear that they are frequently used for pirating. Alternatively, for a similar price you can get a premium "sharehoster" account, and then download all the shows using JDownloader.
I am firmly convinced that this is at least tolerated, if not even condoned by the film industry. The goal is to make pirating a bit inconvenient, and about as expensive as legal streaming. It is like a pressure valve. If it weren't for this "good enough" system, people would be motivated to build a P2P "Pirates' Netflix" (maybe with a friend-of-a-friend architecture, like RetroShare, where the lawers cannot get your IP). And that would really be a problem for the IP holders.
But you can get a subscription to a VPN for about the same price as a Netflix subscription (~10€/month), that will allow you to torrent without worring about getting caught. Strangely, they manage to have an exit node in Frankfurt, and take credit card, although it is clear that they are frequently used for pirating. Alternatively, for a similar price you can get a premium "sharehoster" account, and then download all the shows using JDownloader.
I am firmly convinced that this is at least tolerated, if not even condoned by the film industry. The goal is to make pirating a bit inconvenient, and about as expensive as legal streaming. It is like a pressure valve. If it weren't for this "good enough" system, people would be motivated to build a P2P "Pirates' Netflix" (maybe with a friend-of-a-friend architecture, like RetroShare, where the lawers cannot get your IP). And that would really be a problem for the IP holders.
Torrents have been out of favor for a while. The pros are using Usenet subscriptions and a Usenet indexer (search engine) combined with Plex and automated tools such as NZBGet and Sonarr.
I doubt the Usenet subscription would trigger any fines. This isn’t like torrents where some seeder could be giving IPs to whoever sends you the Abmahnung fines.
I doubt the Usenet subscription would trigger any fines. This isn’t like torrents where some seeder could be giving IPs to whoever sends you the Abmahnung fines.
>Torrents have been out of favor for a while.
Have they? Because it seems to me from my sample size of friends (say 20) that torrent+VPN is definitely the preferred method, way over usenet.
Usenet seems to be for people who are trying to download EVERYTHING (like OP was originally complaining about) instead of just watch movies occasionally.
Have they? Because it seems to me from my sample size of friends (say 20) that torrent+VPN is definitely the preferred method, way over usenet.
Usenet seems to be for people who are trying to download EVERYTHING (like OP was originally complaining about) instead of just watch movies occasionally.
Actual pros are just doing it for free with the same setup but added Prowlarr/Jackett and private trackers, so it's all free without having to pay for usenet. The issue then becomes getting access to the tracker, but it's not that hard, especially for general purpose ones.
> If you download shows via BitTorrent you almost immediately get a fine ("Abmahnung").
How do they detect this?
If you're using a public tracker like The Pirate Bay, I can understand. But what if you're using a private tracker?
How do they detect this?
If you're using a public tracker like The Pirate Bay, I can understand. But what if you're using a private tracker?
Frankly? Why bother pirating stuff if you're not even going to watch it. I don't know how many hours 30TB of content is, but I can tell you I can only really watch a few shows at a time and the occasional movie. This really breaks down to a TV sub, a couple streaming services and the occasional movie rental fee. Which feels extremely reasonable to me.
I do still occasionally pirate. Stuff that is free OTA, very old or just difficult to find. My piracy days are mostly behind me but sometimes it's handy.
I do still occasionally pirate. Stuff that is free OTA, very old or just difficult to find. My piracy days are mostly behind me but sometimes it's handy.
If I can buy a high quality digital file without DRM, built in ads, and other extra garbage, at a reasonable price, I happily pay for it. If I can't, I download it elsewhere. Music industry figured this out decades ago, I'm not sure why other media hasn't.
I used to be mostly happy with streaming services, I still have most of the big ones, but selection and quality is very hit or miss, I sometimes go over a month without using any of them. And "no ads" tiers have become a lie. Showing me a trailer for anything before the thing I chose to watch, even if it's for a show on the same service, is an ad. Stop it, you have a whole app/website to shove shit in my face, once I make a selection, leave me the fuck alone.
I used to be mostly happy with streaming services, I still have most of the big ones, but selection and quality is very hit or miss, I sometimes go over a month without using any of them. And "no ads" tiers have become a lie. Showing me a trailer for anything before the thing I chose to watch, even if it's for a show on the same service, is an ad. Stop it, you have a whole app/website to shove shit in my face, once I make a selection, leave me the fuck alone.
> Music industry figured this out decades ago, I'm not sure why other media hasn't.
It's a learning process. Remember the "old times" were CDs had DRM? It took quite a while to get high quality digital files without DRM - talking about FLAC here.
It's a learning process. Remember the "old times" were CDs had DRM? It took quite a while to get high quality digital files without DRM - talking about FLAC here.
If you stop pirating you would still have 30TB of disk space. you might not need it but you would still have it. Anyway, it would be much easier to download stuff on demand than to hoard the entire movie archive on your disks
An idle computer (just disk IO) shouldn't cost 45$ a month in electricity unless your prices are much much higher then the average
you don't a 40$ subscription to pirate. just buy an invite to a couple of private trackers and you are done
An idle computer (just disk IO) shouldn't cost 45$ a month in electricity unless your prices are much much higher then the average
you don't a 40$ subscription to pirate. just buy an invite to a couple of private trackers and you are done
Considering the quality of the content that I've seen in the last decade, I expect that your need for space will steeply decrease over time. What has been worth storing/saving the last 3-4 years? I mean really store, because you'll want to watch/play it again some day.
The only things worth keeping are those hard to find with other means, some rare movies for example that are not available in any other form other than some avi found somewhere from an old vhs/dvd, but the rest...
The only things worth keeping are those hard to find with other means, some rare movies for example that are not available in any other form other than some avi found somewhere from an old vhs/dvd, but the rest...
I have a similar setup. One extra step I've done is convert all my video media to HEVC after it downloads and that saves me a pretty solid amount of hard drive space.
That's pretty much the case for any member of r/datahoarder . It is impossible to actually own any media you buy these days, the only way you can own the data is if you pirate.
I'm in the same boat. I really don't have an issue with paying for content, but I want to have full control over my media files and build a big library, and there is absolutely no way I could afford to pay for every piece of media.
Nor would doing so even make sense. For the majority of media I save, the creators are long since dead. So why go out of my way to make a tithe to some giant media conglomerate that owns the rights? I'd much rather support filmmakers by going to the theater once in a while.
And when I say library, I mean that in the sense that I save all this stuff because I want to be able to curate it and share it decades down the line. Our current era of seemingly infinite connection and availability may not last forever. I feel a bit like Noah filling the ark sometimes.
Nor would doing so even make sense. For the majority of media I save, the creators are long since dead. So why go out of my way to make a tithe to some giant media conglomerate that owns the rights? I'd much rather support filmmakers by going to the theater once in a while.
And when I say library, I mean that in the sense that I save all this stuff because I want to be able to curate it and share it decades down the line. Our current era of seemingly infinite connection and availability may not last forever. I feel a bit like Noah filling the ark sometimes.
I've quit pirating content a decade ago - combination of time, safety, priorities, and availability of legit content.
I've considered getting back into it occasionally.
Why: Convenience and access. From having everything on Netflix a decade ago, to now having almost as many subscriptions as I used to have cable channels, it's a pain (let alone a cost) to install dozen apps on my phone tablet TV roku etc. Their quality varies WILDLY. The user experience ranges from pretty decent to seemingly user hostile. I've recently watched a set of seasons of a show pirated a decade ago, then last two seasons on actual subscription service, and it sucked: app would not let me download to SD card, had to take precious phone storage. Subtitles were 2 seconds behind with NO way to adjust. Fast forwarding was wonky and basically unusable. And best of all, it auto deleted itself 48hrs after downloading so I had to keep redownloading same stuff over and over. Brutal!
Why Not: As explained above - It's pricey and time consuming, there's a fair amount of risk in pirating, and technology seems to keep changing. I made a post about that a while ago, but I'm no longer at a point in my life where every 6 months I can spare the time to fully rebuild and reconfigure and troubleshoot a stack from sabnzbd and nsbmatrix to udirwioay and fewiap and fdsjei, and then 6 months later again to fdwjieo and wearp routed through wefheio and zxcnzxcv. I have a friend who keeps urging me to set it up because it's so easy - oblivious that whenever I try to use his helpful "how to", a) It's 3 pages long b) it is missing about 10 pages of details and c) It's already out of date so it's "do that, but none of that actually because these days now the cool thing is ____" :D
I've considered getting back into it occasionally.
Why: Convenience and access. From having everything on Netflix a decade ago, to now having almost as many subscriptions as I used to have cable channels, it's a pain (let alone a cost) to install dozen apps on my phone tablet TV roku etc. Their quality varies WILDLY. The user experience ranges from pretty decent to seemingly user hostile. I've recently watched a set of seasons of a show pirated a decade ago, then last two seasons on actual subscription service, and it sucked: app would not let me download to SD card, had to take precious phone storage. Subtitles were 2 seconds behind with NO way to adjust. Fast forwarding was wonky and basically unusable. And best of all, it auto deleted itself 48hrs after downloading so I had to keep redownloading same stuff over and over. Brutal!
Why Not: As explained above - It's pricey and time consuming, there's a fair amount of risk in pirating, and technology seems to keep changing. I made a post about that a while ago, but I'm no longer at a point in my life where every 6 months I can spare the time to fully rebuild and reconfigure and troubleshoot a stack from sabnzbd and nsbmatrix to udirwioay and fewiap and fdsjei, and then 6 months later again to fdwjieo and wearp routed through wefheio and zxcnzxcv. I have a friend who keeps urging me to set it up because it's so easy - oblivious that whenever I try to use his helpful "how to", a) It's 3 pages long b) it is missing about 10 pages of details and c) It's already out of date so it's "do that, but none of that actually because these days now the cool thing is ____" :D
My NAS has a torrent downloading software and an app for my Samsung TV. I just visit my local network web address, add the torrent in the NAS dashboard, and am able to play it from the TV within a few minutes. Most content is great, occasionally there are audio issues or missing subtitles.
Right, but there are I think a few assumptions there:
1. You need to set up NAS and downloading software - that is not as trivial or common as HN audience assumes :)
2. You need a reliable and safe source of torrents. They may be paid or invite only, or may be super scammy and unrealiable and mine crypto etc etc
3. How safe do you feel in your jurisdiction/location at running plain torrents. Here you get notices and sometimes strikes / actions pretty quickly, so now we are talking at least a VPN, which is next layer of setup, configuration, possibly price, possibly its own threat vector as commercial VPNs are scammy, your own VPN is non-trivial to setup correctly.
etc etc etc :)
1. You need to set up NAS and downloading software - that is not as trivial or common as HN audience assumes :)
2. You need a reliable and safe source of torrents. They may be paid or invite only, or may be super scammy and unrealiable and mine crypto etc etc
3. How safe do you feel in your jurisdiction/location at running plain torrents. Here you get notices and sometimes strikes / actions pretty quickly, so now we are talking at least a VPN, which is next layer of setup, configuration, possibly price, possibly its own threat vector as commercial VPNs are scammy, your own VPN is non-trivial to setup correctly.
etc etc etc :)
With synology the NAS and torrent software is pretty plug and play? I boot it up, plug in some hard drives, and click yes a bunch and it's there now.
Agree with 2 though.
Agree with 2 though.
(Note that this is perhaps magical thinking, but I would personally not be comfortable running torrents to "iffy" sites/locations/purposes, on the same primary storage array with my tax documents and family photos etc; my NAS is as local-network-only as humanly possible. That is a segregation and personal preference though, and does not detract from your main point)
2) as long as you are not looking for exotic stuff you can just use public trackers or semi-private ones (they require an account but usually you do not have to keep a ratio, do not need an invite and they do not require you to sell your soul to the devil).
If you want to go down this route (and you use *arr) prowlarr is a must have to avoid wasting time copying configs between the *arr.
If you want to go down this route (and you use *arr) prowlarr is a must have to avoid wasting time copying configs between the *arr.
Safety is easy.
I download remotely, then have local snag from remote. Local is a custom server, on Pi, on an isolated network (with its own cable modem).
Once the Pi receives a file, it transmits it over a modified optical link, where I cut the receive line on the sending nic board.
Checksums are simple, and sent via email back to the remote server, checked, and I am alerted of wrong.
My media PC is all that is connected to that local network.
I download remotely, then have local snag from remote. Local is a custom server, on Pi, on an isolated network (with its own cable modem).
Once the Pi receives a file, it transmits it over a modified optical link, where I cut the receive line on the sending nic board.
Checksums are simple, and sent via email back to the remote server, checked, and I am alerted of wrong.
My media PC is all that is connected to that local network.
Everything you're written makes perfect sense, and is completely contradictory to the first statement of "is easy" (edit: unless the post was intentionally exaggerated and humorous/sarcastic and I missed it: it's hacker news so I genuinely can't be certain - this could be a completely overblown ridiculous unrealistic imaginary workflow to make a point, or something a hacker news person genuinely setup and considers easy :)
[deleted]
You are just hoarding data which is a different "hobby" and piracy is merely a component of it.
And, yes, this hobby is expensive.
Do not go around saying that piracy is expensive.
There is also a similar side to it. You are _storing_ a lot of data. What if you decided to _play_ (games) instead? You would have needed more expensive hardwares. And a lot of power. Here _gaming_ would be more expensive.
What is expensive is your datahoarding habits, and not piracy.
You are also comparing apples to oranges here (watching movies vis-a-vis storing them). A more obvious a-to-o comparison is buying a Spotify subscription versus playing CoD: WW2 from a pirated source. You see, the second is more expensive than the first.
So,
1. Piracy is not expensive, your datahoarding habits are (plenty of people watch pirated content on 300-400$ laptops and 200$ phones.)
2. You are comparing apples to oranges.
And, yes, this hobby is expensive.
Do not go around saying that piracy is expensive.
There is also a similar side to it. You are _storing_ a lot of data. What if you decided to _play_ (games) instead? You would have needed more expensive hardwares. And a lot of power. Here _gaming_ would be more expensive.
What is expensive is your datahoarding habits, and not piracy.
You are also comparing apples to oranges here (watching movies vis-a-vis storing them). A more obvious a-to-o comparison is buying a Spotify subscription versus playing CoD: WW2 from a pirated source. You see, the second is more expensive than the first.
So,
1. Piracy is not expensive, your datahoarding habits are (plenty of people watch pirated content on 300-400$ laptops and 200$ phones.)
2. You are comparing apples to oranges.
In the 80s/90s, I pirated a lot of software for Amiga/PC, because it was either unavailable or expensive for me.
Nowadays I don't bother pirating anything, for two reasons:
a) I don't feel comfortable any more to steal money from others, b) there is nothing out there to make me want it so badly. Everything looks so mediocre...
Nowadays I don't bother pirating anything, for two reasons:
a) I don't feel comfortable any more to steal money from others, b) there is nothing out there to make me want it so badly. Everything looks so mediocre...
> There are some must-have shows
Not really.
Not really.
Reasons (TV/Movie) piracy is better than any paid service:
* All in one place/App/UI. Be it Plex/Jellyfin/Emby/Kodi/etc, you only have 1 app UI/UX to deal with. No more wondering "What network was that on?", "Wait, it's on 2 services but which one has my watched status?", "What does clicking forward/back do in this App?", "How do I turn on subtitles?", etc
* Local playback. You never have to wait on your internet or deal with lower quality if something goes amiss.
* More features. Ability to download a show/movie to your iPad for travel (Yes, this has improved on the streaming platforms but is not always easy or ubiquitous)
* Access forever. If you hoard at least. You cannot find certain shows online anymore. The Daily Show or The Colbert Report are good examples. I know some people might find watching old episodes of daily news shows to be odd but I find them interesting and still humorous. All you can find is scattered clips online. Also shows that were never super popular can be impossible to find on streaming and often impossible to buy.
* No Ads. Zero. Zilch. Nada.
* Tech/Job improvement Aspect. This is less about piracy directly and the skills you are forced to learn to maintain an *arr+plex+UnRaid/FreeNAS/Debian/etc box.
You are correct that the cost is not cheap, I've probably sunk $5K+ into my servers but I find the process to be both informative and enjoyable.
Lastly, I would happily pay $100-150+ a month for a service that gave me all of the above (aside from server management experience). 1 App, offline/local caching, no ads, all content. But it will never happen. Netflix gave us some golden years where they had almost everything someone would want but then the content providers started to pull back their content to their own "platforms" and now it's a mess. Even things like Amazon Channels, Apple TV (no, not the device, no, not the service, the app :rolleyes:), or now even Plex (with their newest release) that attempt to serve as directory that can either play the content directly or bounce you directly into the app to play are a far cry from what you get from an only-Plex (or insert other media server) setup.
* All in one place/App/UI. Be it Plex/Jellyfin/Emby/Kodi/etc, you only have 1 app UI/UX to deal with. No more wondering "What network was that on?", "Wait, it's on 2 services but which one has my watched status?", "What does clicking forward/back do in this App?", "How do I turn on subtitles?", etc
* Local playback. You never have to wait on your internet or deal with lower quality if something goes amiss.
* More features. Ability to download a show/movie to your iPad for travel (Yes, this has improved on the streaming platforms but is not always easy or ubiquitous)
* Access forever. If you hoard at least. You cannot find certain shows online anymore. The Daily Show or The Colbert Report are good examples. I know some people might find watching old episodes of daily news shows to be odd but I find them interesting and still humorous. All you can find is scattered clips online. Also shows that were never super popular can be impossible to find on streaming and often impossible to buy.
* No Ads. Zero. Zilch. Nada.
* Tech/Job improvement Aspect. This is less about piracy directly and the skills you are forced to learn to maintain an *arr+plex+UnRaid/FreeNAS/Debian/etc box.
You are correct that the cost is not cheap, I've probably sunk $5K+ into my servers but I find the process to be both informative and enjoyable.
Lastly, I would happily pay $100-150+ a month for a service that gave me all of the above (aside from server management experience). 1 App, offline/local caching, no ads, all content. But it will never happen. Netflix gave us some golden years where they had almost everything someone would want but then the content providers started to pull back their content to their own "platforms" and now it's a mess. Even things like Amazon Channels, Apple TV (no, not the device, no, not the service, the app :rolleyes:), or now even Plex (with their newest release) that attempt to serve as directory that can either play the content directly or bounce you directly into the app to play are a far cry from what you get from an only-Plex (or insert other media server) setup.
The interesting thing is that for gaming Gabe Newell has figured this out decades ago i.e. "piracy is an issue of service, not price" and today Steam fulfils practically all of those reasons you listed.
All games in one store, offline play, hosting mods and support forums, cross-machine save sync, access even if the game gets removed from the store entirely later on, etc.
GoG for example goes a step further with the ownership principle, making games DRM free, and yet when it comes down to it their service offers less practical features to the average user than Steam and its ecosystem does.
Of course the monetization approach is different, since you pay per game and not per month for access. I wonder if streaming networks would have more success with a similar pay-to-own approach. Making the service free by default, with some stuff free to view and the rest requiring a small fee each to own the right to view it infinite times. The approach that has worked reasonably well with VHS and DVD in the past. Then on the other hand most games have more replayability than your average TV show...
All games in one store, offline play, hosting mods and support forums, cross-machine save sync, access even if the game gets removed from the store entirely later on, etc.
GoG for example goes a step further with the ownership principle, making games DRM free, and yet when it comes down to it their service offers less practical features to the average user than Steam and its ecosystem does.
Of course the monetization approach is different, since you pay per game and not per month for access. I wonder if streaming networks would have more success with a similar pay-to-own approach. Making the service free by default, with some stuff free to view and the rest requiring a small fee each to own the right to view it infinite times. The approach that has worked reasonably well with VHS and DVD in the past. Then on the other hand most games have more replayability than your average TV show...
> I wonder if streaming networks would have more success with a similar pay-to-own approach.
https://moviesanywhere.com
https://moviesanywhere.com
Miracle Mile isn't in that service, while it is pretty much available via Piracy ( https://yts.mx/movies/miracle-mile-1988 )
Amen
Sounds like piracy is a hobby for you rather than a means to an end. I've "recreationally pirated" before, and now I only pirate as a means to an end (and usually only when "necessary"). I don't regret either era. If you are enjoying the time you spend recreationally pirating and hoarding media, then it seems fine to me, as long as you're aware of any potential legal issues in your jurisdiction.
> Streaming services still have significant service problems that need to be addressed.
This is true. I spend a lot on media, but also pirate things too, because it's often a better experience. One search engine for everything, and I don't need to sign up for 10 different services?! Wow!
This is true. I spend a lot on media, but also pirate things too, because it's often a better experience. One search engine for everything, and I don't need to sign up for 10 different services?! Wow!
A subreddit for you: /r/DataHoarder - "It's A Digital Disease!"
https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/
You can reduce electricity use if you can keep your content stored in a powered-off state and run a low-power device for your pirating; when needed, boot up your server to watch things or to transfer out your new downloads.
Finally, you might like the software I created to browse your collection: Video Hub App
https://videohubapp.com/ & https://github.com/whyboris/Video-Hub-App (MIT open source)
https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/
You can reduce electricity use if you can keep your content stored in a powered-off state and run a low-power device for your pirating; when needed, boot up your server to watch things or to transfer out your new downloads.
Finally, you might like the software I created to browse your collection: Video Hub App
https://videohubapp.com/ & https://github.com/whyboris/Video-Hub-App (MIT open source)
Stop with all the watching (and to a lesser extent listening) and start reading and hoarding books instead. 99% of downloaded content you will never read, but at 0.5~4.0Mb per book just two cheap, but RAIDed with ZFS for safety, 1Tb 3.5" HDDs will last you a lifetime. And that's before turning any kind of compression on!
If I might add, hoarding physical books is also a worthwhile hobby.
I've already downloaded all the books. Now the challenge is indexing and sorting them.
You remind me of squirrel storing nuts for a winter that’ll never come.
I don't think piracy is what is costing you. Data hoarding is.
Even if you wanted to keep a library of all watched movies or series from the past year you'd sit at much lower than 30TB. Do you really need to keep all this data ? How many times in your life will you rewatch all those movies and would it not be faster to find a new download then with the slight risk that it won't be available anymore ? You can probably safely remove/redownload the most popular shows and only keep the more niche ones that may become hard to find, or purge your movie library every few months for stuff that you never rewatch (you can probably even automate that). With decent internet and preferences for popular movies you could even argue that you'd just have to keep around the torrents and re-download your movies on the fly, trading a few minutes of waiting for a much cheaper setup.
There's also ways to optimize the uptime of your server which is essentially a NAS for movies. You could have the big machine off most of the time and use a Raspberry Pi to send Wake On Lan packets when you need it. It's may take an extra minute before it's usable but you would lower your bills significantly.
That $1200 upfront and $55/month sound like at least double what it should be. For a server that may double as a backup for your own files the upfront investment can be seen as worth it. And with the many streaming platforms relying more and more on exclusives, region-locked content that require VPNs that may not even work, time-limited content and increasing pricings your reduced electricity bill may not be far off from what legally viewing the content might cost you.
Even if you wanted to keep a library of all watched movies or series from the past year you'd sit at much lower than 30TB. Do you really need to keep all this data ? How many times in your life will you rewatch all those movies and would it not be faster to find a new download then with the slight risk that it won't be available anymore ? You can probably safely remove/redownload the most popular shows and only keep the more niche ones that may become hard to find, or purge your movie library every few months for stuff that you never rewatch (you can probably even automate that). With decent internet and preferences for popular movies you could even argue that you'd just have to keep around the torrents and re-download your movies on the fly, trading a few minutes of waiting for a much cheaper setup.
There's also ways to optimize the uptime of your server which is essentially a NAS for movies. You could have the big machine off most of the time and use a Raspberry Pi to send Wake On Lan packets when you need it. It's may take an extra minute before it's usable but you would lower your bills significantly.
That $1200 upfront and $55/month sound like at least double what it should be. For a server that may double as a backup for your own files the upfront investment can be seen as worth it. And with the many streaming platforms relying more and more on exclusives, region-locked content that require VPNs that may not even work, time-limited content and increasing pricings your reduced electricity bill may not be far off from what legally viewing the content might cost you.
Do you think your computer actually cost $45 a month in electricity costs?
You use your computer only for piracy? You could have gotten a much cheaper, probably less power hungry machine...
You may also have a local copy without pirating, if that's your main concern.
I don't get paying for access to pirated content. It's a total sucker move.
You may also have a local copy without pirating, if that's your main concern.
I don't get paying for access to pirated content. It's a total sucker move.
Only keep data or metadata of important stuff is a better strategy I think.
Why would one need to keep a copy of a film like the Lord of the Rings movie when it is so easy to download? Why would one need to keep metadata of having watched LoTR? Forgetting is a feature since it allows our minds to disregard insignificant stuff.
Why would one need to keep a copy of a film like the Lord of the Rings movie when it is so easy to download? Why would one need to keep metadata of having watched LoTR? Forgetting is a feature since it allows our minds to disregard insignificant stuff.
You have a really immense archive of pop culture that is priceless. If I wanted to scroll through endless junk I'd never watch or wouldn't want to watch again, i'd rather it be my own 30TB catalog.
There's no way that computer costs you $45/mo in power, unless power is insanely expensive where you live.
This doesn’t even include the rent, mortgage, or other payment to house you, or how much it costs to feed or clothe you and otherwise keep the piracy operation running.
Why isn't there a streaming service that has basically every movie and tv show ever made before, let's say, 2000.
Netflix etc. can keep on having their own new stuff exclusive to them, and fair enough if some `special' older content with a high ongoing value was kept off the `everything old' service (Star Wars, Star Trek, James Bond or whatever).
The streaming services have become too much like tv: you can only watch `what's on'.
Netflix etc. can keep on having their own new stuff exclusive to them, and fair enough if some `special' older content with a high ongoing value was kept off the `everything old' service (Star Wars, Star Trek, James Bond or whatever).
The streaming services have become too much like tv: you can only watch `what's on'.
[deleted]
ads, and the ever changing pricing plans. thats why. if you dont own the content, they own your fun.
Same except everything is commercial equipment (rack hardware, UPS, PDU, 10GBE between NAS boxes and servers). I am at 120TB capacity of RAID10 currently. I have spent tens of thousands on my Plex setup. It’s not about the economy, its about never worrying about copyright licensing windows again. I don’t trust streaming platforms to maintain licenses for the stuff I like. The fragmentation is maddening and I wouldn’t even watch tv or movies if I had to use streaming services.
It’s funny Plex has an office in Los Gatos literally down the road from Netflix. They are literally the scrappy pirate ship plundering the booty of the incumbent.
It’s funny Plex has an office in Los Gatos literally down the road from Netflix. They are literally the scrappy pirate ship plundering the booty of the incumbent.
Pirate services often are actually better. I pay monthly for pirate streaming service because the pirate service provide me well-maintained open-source Kodi plugin on RPI, no espionage and telemetry, no DRM on my devices. And linux web version works flawlessly.
Top 1 official streaming (netflix) always has issues with linux desktop browsers and don't want to provide me the way to consume content without been hooked . Others even worse.
Not talking about the fact that pirate service has everything in one place and copyright guys can't even agree on content sharing (like music streaming, where I can access the same music on different services).
Top 1 official streaming (netflix) always has issues with linux desktop browsers and don't want to provide me the way to consume content without been hooked . Others even worse.
Not talking about the fact that pirate service has everything in one place and copyright guys can't even agree on content sharing (like music streaming, where I can access the same music on different services).
I've always been interested in the Zappiti Streaming DVD Blu-Ray Ripping Media Player.
Like, if someone went to Redbox and rented several movies...
Like, if someone went to Redbox and rented several movies...
Streaming services should abandon monthly subscription paying method and let me pay just for time I actually spend on consuming their products. It is ridiculous to pay multiple streaming services for content that I consume rarely.
I'm able to watch 5 feature films in month, which means approximately one film from one streaming service (HBO, Netflix, Apple, Disney...). Together it is around 55 USD (11 USD per feature film) in my country. Not to mention that about half o films I have in my watch list are not on any streaming services.
Sorry, that is not acceptable. It is actually stupid business model. If that films are not in local cinemas around, I'm not able to watch them legally.
I'm able to watch 5 feature films in month, which means approximately one film from one streaming service (HBO, Netflix, Apple, Disney...). Together it is around 55 USD (11 USD per feature film) in my country. Not to mention that about half o films I have in my watch list are not on any streaming services.
Sorry, that is not acceptable. It is actually stupid business model. If that films are not in local cinemas around, I'm not able to watch them legally.
Stop watching so much tv! Piracy is one thing, but wasting your life watching all of those “must have shows” makes it sound like your brain has been co-opted by the content producers. Maybe put down the remote and pick up a book?
I have already downloaded all of the books. Text compresses very well.
> wasting your life watching all of those “must have shows” makes it sound like your brain has been co-opted by the content producers.
>Maybe put down the remote and pick up a book?
Isn't that the same thing?
>Maybe put down the remote and pick up a book?
Isn't that the same thing?
Libraries are free so no. And, the selection is wider and better given the historical economics of literature vs streaming (steaming?) content production.
Don't sell your brain time to the lowest bidder.
It might feel cool to use your hardware for helping the internet at large, via something like the good karma kit or an auto-archiving tool:
https://archivebox.io/ https://github.com/ArchiveBox/good-karma-kit
https://archivebox.io/ https://github.com/ArchiveBox/good-karma-kit
I already run archiveteam-warrior.
I've actually contributed some code to a few things on that list.
I've actually contributed some code to a few things on that list.
Three 16TB (for raid5) drives (Seagate Exos) are $690, plus the pc you probably already have.
There's an amazing chorus of protests against data-hoarding. With wonders like this, I say go for it!
There's an amazing chorus of protests against data-hoarding. With wonders like this, I say go for it!
Just delete it … no need to keep 30TB of data… you can probably automate it too by querying Plex stats with a cron job, rm, and a bit of Perl magic …
Hoard because a) You never know when the content will be removed, b) you never know when you will be stuck without internet, c) you never know when you will feel like exercising your right as a customer to not barter with a business for whatever reason you desire, d) want to stream the content via your own software whatever that may be, e) because the corporations got greedy and the customer is paying.
Besides availability, sometimes piracy leads to a better experience, as explained by this graphic:
https://i0.wp.com/farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/4369403959_fe...
https://www.techdirt.com/2010/02/19/reminder-you-dont-compet...
("If you are a pirate this is what you get ... but if you are a paying customer, this is what you get")
This is a very old meme, modern experience with streaming services is generally much better.
https://i0.wp.com/farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/4369403959_fe...
https://www.techdirt.com/2010/02/19/reminder-you-dont-compet...
("If you are a pirate this is what you get ... but if you are a paying customer, this is what you get")
This is a very old meme, modern experience with streaming services is generally much better.
US vs. Paramount (1948) prevented movie production companies from owning theaters or entering into exclusivity arrangements for exhibition. I think we need to go back to this, codify it into law, and make it apply to streaming services. i.e. companies that offer streaming services and companies that produce content should not be allowed to be owned by the same entity.
Beyond that I think there should be forced syndication after an initial lockout period for the first run (say, a year).
It would be a much more consumer friendly environment if 20 year old shows couldn't be sold for billions and any niche streaming service could license for a reasonable fee and we wouldn't be forced to shuffle services around playing exclusivity games.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Paramount_Pic....
Beyond that I think there should be forced syndication after an initial lockout period for the first run (say, a year).
It would be a much more consumer friendly environment if 20 year old shows couldn't be sold for billions and any niche streaming service could license for a reasonable fee and we wouldn't be forced to shuffle services around playing exclusivity games.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Paramount_Pic....
That’s a great pitch
I am partially a data hoarder. I am an academic so I try to get copies of documentaries, videos, and such about my topic.
I also pirate a decent amount of stuff but most of it is things I can't legally get in the USA.
So, the $10 a month for subscribing to usenet I get, though I personally just use public torrent trackers. What's with the ~30TB server and how is that related? Do you want to be able to come back to anything you've ever downloaded anytime?
For a long time, a friend recorded TV shows and movies on multiple VCRs. I went to their house, it was literally stacks of video casettes on every wall surface, thousands of them. They even used to mail them back and forth to other countries in trades for other English content.
Nowadays, they digitized all of it onto 12 2 TB harddrives. They take a different one out every evening and organize and share, get more things, etc. While the cost may be comparable, the fact that they could regain their house walls was a huge boon.
Nowadays, they digitized all of it onto 12 2 TB harddrives. They take a different one out every evening and organize and share, get more things, etc. While the cost may be comparable, the fact that they could regain their house walls was a huge boon.
[deleted]
$45 / month for power seems excessive. I have a home server where I selfhost a bunch of services and am using an 1080Ti GPU on it to mine Ethereum (65% or 125W) and it's costing me $18 / month in electricity to run 24/7 (the Ethereum I mine pays for all of it even now with the crashed crypto prices).
at 125W it would be ~$0.50/kWh which is not totally ridiculous of for the top marginal rate for electricity (so if you add it on top of other usage it's somewhat feasible). An older rig with lots of 3.5" spinning disks can exceed 125W (it's ~8W per disk if they never spin down).
[deleted]
A couple of games, films and music I loved are lost or hard to come by these days.
It's out of print or no one cares (b-track on singles for example)
Sometimes the artist changes "the original" (star wars for example).
The companies don't want to sell the original (GTA for example)
or can't sell it for legal reasons.
And of course there is always someone offended (Community - Advanced Dungeons and Dragons for example)
I don’t get the pirating mentality I see on HN. People say Netflix was good but the catalog is the problem, then point to alternatives in piracy that are not streaming sites. Why is this? Put locker and solar movie and sflix seem like the best available option. What’s up with that?
The ultimate streaming service would be the one created by IMDB. I feel half of my watchlist is unavailable or hard to track down.
Have you considered a residential IP for VPN and just using the streaming services?
Slightly more expensive than normal VPN, and less likely to be blocked by the streaming services.
Slightly more expensive than normal VPN, and less likely to be blocked by the streaming services.
I just watch online. Few movies and TV shows are worth hoarding anyway.
I download content against copyright law - specifically Strange New Worlds
Paramount literally won’t sell it to me, thus I have no moral objections to it.
Paramount literally won’t sell it to me, thus I have no moral objections to it.
What this is describing is a file server. Nothing to do with pirating.
I have all my movies on my local fileserver but they are not pirated. I buy the DVDs and I rip them for storage.
I have all my movies on my local fileserver but they are not pirated. I buy the DVDs and I rip them for storage.
Same goes with downloading youtube videos - which gets deleted randomly by the owner. I used to have YouTube playlists and after 3 years 4 out of 10 videos were gone.
Downloading content helps if you want to revisit them without the fear of them getting deleted.
Downloading content helps if you want to revisit them without the fear of them getting deleted.
Do you have a plex server? I wouldn’t mind perusing your hoard :)
Does anyone feel bad using pirated Adobe products in a commercial project? or is it me only?
You could pay for the subscription services and rip the content - there are some technical limitations but I'm sure someone has figured out how to do it
I used to hoard data too until I realised that most movies and TV shows are crap most of the time.
> I pay a usenet subscription, and subscription to indexers
Wait! You can get Usenet these days? Is it only for piracy or other things as well? Where can I sign up?
Also, what is an indexer in this context? Is it something you need only for piracy, or is it about Usenet in general?
Wait! You can get Usenet these days? Is it only for piracy or other things as well? Where can I sign up?
Also, what is an indexer in this context? Is it something you need only for piracy, or is it about Usenet in general?
I built a computer with ~30TB of hard drive space. That, conservatively, cost me $1200. It's an older computer, with a lot of hard drives and it's probably costing me around $45 per month in power. I'm going to want to add more storage space soon, and have about $500 slated for that. I pay a usenet subscription, and subscription to indexers, for let's say $10 per month...
So if I stopped pirating I'd have saved $1200 and still have a budget of $55 per month for streaming services.
So why do I still pirate? Well one thing is show availability. There are some must-have shows that simply aren't available in my region (not the US), so I already have to have the piracy infrastructure in place if I want to watch them.
I also very much appreciate having a local copy. It's not like steam where I can just download whatever I want and play it offline (I do mostly buy steam content, if it's on steam I probably don't bother to pirate).
Streaming services still have significant service problems that need to be addressed.