Fossil is quitting smartwatches(theverge.com)
theverge.com
Fossil is quitting smartwatches
https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/26/24052275/fossil-quitting-smartwatches-android-wear-os
307 comments
Just wanna chime in and say my Samsung galaxy watch 5 pro does feel like a piece of junk in many regards, but specifically for heart rate tracking.
Whether I set it to measure continuously or ever 10 minutes, it never captures the real highs of the day.
I've been cycling a ton since I got swift and my first "real" bike last autumn and had been pretty sedentary for months before.
You'd expect the long term min max heart rate graph to increase but it's pretty much the same. The rare times it picks up on my elevated heart rate as I bike, it warns me that my "at rest" heart rate is high..
I've tried adjusting tightness, even reducing arm hair with a clipper as people were saying it can interfere. Nothing changed.
It was half off when I bought my phone so I grabbed it but it still feels overpriced. For sleep tracking I feel like it's been relatively decent and otherwise obviously I get notifications and stuff.
But the UI often feels laggy, simple things like entering my pin lags.
Ever since I switched from an iPad pro to the galaxy tab s9 ultra, I do appreciate how well things work when you own everything in the same ecosystem but the watch is the low point.
Whether I set it to measure continuously or ever 10 minutes, it never captures the real highs of the day.
I've been cycling a ton since I got swift and my first "real" bike last autumn and had been pretty sedentary for months before.
You'd expect the long term min max heart rate graph to increase but it's pretty much the same. The rare times it picks up on my elevated heart rate as I bike, it warns me that my "at rest" heart rate is high..
I've tried adjusting tightness, even reducing arm hair with a clipper as people were saying it can interfere. Nothing changed.
It was half off when I bought my phone so I grabbed it but it still feels overpriced. For sleep tracking I feel like it's been relatively decent and otherwise obviously I get notifications and stuff.
But the UI often feels laggy, simple things like entering my pin lags.
Ever since I switched from an iPad pro to the galaxy tab s9 ultra, I do appreciate how well things work when you own everything in the same ecosystem but the watch is the low point.
I have a Garmin 235 and the heart rate monitoring also sucks. I think now it just stopped working but when I got it new it was sort of maybe accurate indoors when you're not moving. As soon as you go running or outdoors where sunlight can interact with the sensor it's basically useless, either measuring your cadence instead of your heart-rate or just producing total garbage. So I bought a polar chest strap which is incredibly reliable.
It's been a while since I looked at reviews but when I did the conclusion seemed to be all wrist based monitors are iffy and vary greatly from person to person. Maybe some people have a stronger signal at their wrist?
EDIT: I do like the watch though. Lightweight. Durable. Long battery life. Accurate GPS. Everything I need to track my running.
It's been a while since I looked at reviews but when I did the conclusion seemed to be all wrist based monitors are iffy and vary greatly from person to person. Maybe some people have a stronger signal at their wrist?
EDIT: I do like the watch though. Lightweight. Durable. Long battery life. Accurate GPS. Everything I need to track my running.
I've had the vivoactive 3, 645, Fenix 6, and now the 255. The HR sensor is much improved on the 255 (and similar generation models) compared to older models. It obtains accurate HR quickly and doesn't stray or go wild with readings. Enough so that I can go without my chest strap for most runs. I still use a chest strap for high HR interval runs, as it has gone wacky at times here. Another nice thing with the new HR sensor is it uses what seems like a glass cover over the sensor, unlike the plastic resin on older models that had a tendency to develop a spider web of cracks.
Another nice thing I've noticed with the 255 is GPS is normally super accurate, and I'm now able to rely on it 100% of the time for auto 1 mile lapping.
Another nice thing I've noticed with the 255 is GPS is normally super accurate, and I'm now able to rely on it 100% of the time for auto 1 mile lapping.
Thanks.. Maybe it's time for me to upgrade. Though it still works great otherwise...
Well the 235 is nearly a decade old now, there has been much improvement in heart rate tracking since then. The 235 is as old as the original Apple Watch.
Apple watch sucks for hr monitoring too FWIW.
It’s usually at the top of the reviews done by The Quantified Scientist on YouTube. He seems to be pretty thorough and has a crap ton of data.
It's always matched the heart rate monitor at the doctor's office for me which has me thinking it's pretty good. What have you found that's off?
Just like other wrist-based heart rate monitors, I've found the Apple Watch will be within 10% of a good chest strap HR monitor (like the POLAR H10), but only during rest.
During high intensity interval training, the AW (and Garmin) can struggle. For me, it'll regularly read grossly under or over (like, think you're at 90 when your HR is actually 140, or 180 when I'm at 150).
Depending on your veins, your skin color, and your activity, wrist HR might be fine for you. If you want accurate HR in most conditions, though, it seems that you have to resort to a chest strap.
During high intensity interval training, the AW (and Garmin) can struggle. For me, it'll regularly read grossly under or over (like, think you're at 90 when your HR is actually 140, or 180 when I'm at 150).
Depending on your veins, your skin color, and your activity, wrist HR might be fine for you. If you want accurate HR in most conditions, though, it seems that you have to resort to a chest strap.
It seems like what we really need is implants to monitor our vitals continuously. These could also be really useful for detecting big problems (like a heart attack) long before they become catastrophic.
Some of that problem is inherent to the design. Reflective PPG just doesn't work great, especially when you're wiggling it around everywhere.
There's a whole bunch of signal processing mumbo-jumbo you can do to get a clean-ish heart rate from reflective PPG, it's just more complicated than Samsung/Apple/etc probably care to implement. They're selling you a watch, not a medical device. It sucks, but that's advertising.
There's a whole bunch of signal processing mumbo-jumbo you can do to get a clean-ish heart rate from reflective PPG, it's just more complicated than Samsung/Apple/etc probably care to implement. They're selling you a watch, not a medical device. It sucks, but that's advertising.
I got a Garmin Epix Gen 2 a few month ago and it's great. It looks great and works great.
the UI too a bit to figure out, it isn't as intuitive as Samsung, and I assume Apple, but now that I've got the hang of it, it's fine.
What I don't understand is why Garmin has SO many different models. They all seem basically the same. When I was in the store to buy mine, I struck up a conversation with another guy looking to buy a Garmin, and we were trying to figure out why you'd chose a Fenix over an Epix over (I can't even remember the other names).
the UI too a bit to figure out, it isn't as intuitive as Samsung, and I assume Apple, but now that I've got the hang of it, it's fine.
What I don't understand is why Garmin has SO many different models. They all seem basically the same. When I was in the store to buy mine, I struck up a conversation with another guy looking to buy a Garmin, and we were trying to figure out why you'd chose a Fenix over an Epix over (I can't even remember the other names).
Garmins are good. Great battery life. I've bought other smartwatches, and this one is the best. Yes, there are UI improvements that they could make, but they do what they need to do and battery life...
Previous Pebble (Classic v1 and 2) owner here. I was about to comment that it doesn't have e-ink and therefore would require multiple times a week charging but you mention it lasts a week (which the Pebble I mentioned also would target for; I don't accept less than a week). My Fossil HR Collider is fantastic with regards to battery life, and it only cost about 200 EUR. When I bought it I feared it'd remain too niche (it does not actually look my a smartwatch with the e-ink). Garmin are very well known in the sports sector.
Pebble doesn't have an eInk screen either. Garmin Fenix watches use Memory In Pixel displays like the Pebble. This is sometimes called an ePaper display which is where the confusion comes from I think. It doesn't work like eInk but a traditional LCD where each pixel has a bit of memory to allow it to not need to be constantly refreshed. The newer Fenix watches can get pretty insane battery life, especially the solar models, like a month+.
I wasn't implying Pebble have e-ink. I had my Fossil HR Collider in mind. A month is impressive, but 600+ EUR for a WearOS device is too much for me (you pay with your privacy on anything Android/Google).
I have a Garmin Marq that was my 20th anniversary gift from my wife. It's my second smart watch. My first was an Apple Watch that I wore for a bit and then left in a drawer and eventually forgot about it. (It was a great device and well made, but the use case for the watch just wasn't optimized for what I used it for.)
The Garmin just unobtrusively (app-wise, physically it's pretty beefy) does what I want it to do, and I'm also totally comfortable going away for a week and not brining a chargers. I'm also comfortable wearing it in all circumstances.
In lower power mode, it lasts several weeks, which is great since 95% of the time, I'm using it as a watch.
The Garmin just unobtrusively (app-wise, physically it's pretty beefy) does what I want it to do, and I'm also totally comfortable going away for a week and not brining a chargers. I'm also comfortable wearing it in all circumstances.
In lower power mode, it lasts several weeks, which is great since 95% of the time, I'm using it as a watch.
I own a Lamborghini that I received as a gift for my 20th anniversary. It's my second high-performance car. The first one was a Honda Civic that I drove for a while and then parked in the garage, eventually forgetting about it. (It was an amazing vehicle and well-crafted, but the driving experience just didn't align with my preferences.)
The Lamborghini effortlessly (performance-wise, it's quite powerful) does what I want it to do, and I'm perfectly fine taking it on a week-long trip without worrying about refueling. I'm also comfortable driving it in any situation.
In eco mode, it has an impressive fuel efficiency, which is fantastic since 95% of the time, I'm using it for regular commuting.
The Lamborghini effortlessly (performance-wise, it's quite powerful) does what I want it to do, and I'm perfectly fine taking it on a week-long trip without worrying about refueling. I'm also comfortable driving it in any situation.
In eco mode, it has an impressive fuel efficiency, which is fantastic since 95% of the time, I'm using it for regular commuting.
I feel the same. I love only charging once a week for like an hour.
I do wish it was better at sleep tracking...
I do wish it was better at sleep tracking...
Sleep tracking is really interesting, but having to sleep with a huge watch isn't really appealing to me. Thinking about it, combining health tracking with a smart watch seems rather conflicted to me, they are mentally on the opposite sides of the health spectrum in my mind. One is suppose to help you, the other provides yet another way to keep you connected draining mental energy.
I really think there should be devices that track health data and then just sync data to a computer or phone a few times a day. I know the Oura ring exists, but that's a subscription and therefor not interesting.
I really think there should be devices that track health data and then just sync data to a computer or phone a few times a day. I know the Oura ring exists, but that's a subscription and therefor not interesting.
My watch is a pivotal part of my ongoing health management. It doesn’t drain mental energy, it restores it and also means I now have less need for a phone which does have things that could serve as a distraction. The watch is now largely the only device I carry for that reason.
I suffer cognitive issues following severe health issues, the watch helps keep me on track with medication reminders and helpful pings to remind me of what I’m supposed to be doing/going to that day (drs appointments, scans, reminders to perform rehabilitation exercises etc). I can’t rely on my phone because it’s not guaranteed to be with me, but as long as I strap the watch on every morning (my partner reminds me first thing) I’m set for the day.
No YouTube, HN, web browsing etc, it’s far more functional for me as a life tool than a phone with a significantly larger scope for distraction and time wasting.
I suffer cognitive issues following severe health issues, the watch helps keep me on track with medication reminders and helpful pings to remind me of what I’m supposed to be doing/going to that day (drs appointments, scans, reminders to perform rehabilitation exercises etc). I can’t rely on my phone because it’s not guaranteed to be with me, but as long as I strap the watch on every morning (my partner reminds me first thing) I’m set for the day.
No YouTube, HN, web browsing etc, it’s far more functional for me as a life tool than a phone with a significantly larger scope for distraction and time wasting.
For daily use, my Apple Watch Ultra is a much better companion. But when it matters, like doing long distance cycling or backpacking in the back country, I have a Garmin Epix and an InReach that I trust with my life
I also own a Garmin Enduro, but I charge it once per month and I do like 5-9 hours of tracked activities per week.
Looks like they have solar charging model too... I wonder if that is a gimmick or actually works well?
It's still going to run down the battery if you are using the sport tracking modes, where it enables satellite tracking and also increases the sampling and recording rates.
From what I've seen in written reviews and user forums, the solar can reduce the rate of discharge but isn't realistically going to charge up the watch. It could be enough to offset daily basic smartwatch use if you spend time with it exposed to bright conditions while you wear it.
Setting it out in bright sun is likely to just overheat it and then it won't charge. On your arm, you act as a heat sink compared to if it is left on a sunny surface.
From what I've seen in written reviews and user forums, the solar can reduce the rate of discharge but isn't realistically going to charge up the watch. It could be enough to offset daily basic smartwatch use if you spend time with it exposed to bright conditions while you wear it.
Setting it out in bright sun is likely to just overheat it and then it won't charge. On your arm, you act as a heat sink compared to if it is left on a sunny surface.
I have a "just a watch" with solar charging from Citizen. Solar is enough for that (it has never stopped since i bought it) but it probably can't handle backlight, radios etc.
This is great feedback, especially the part about it over heating!
Based on your comment, I'd error on the side of gimmick then. =)
Based on your comment, I'd error on the side of gimmick then. =)
As Fenix 7 usrry, I wouldn't call it a gimmick - in sunnier months it definitely reduced the battery drain.
And the watch will report amount of solar energy gathered ... Somewhere.
I'd say the main problem is that sometimes the watch stays on battery so long I forget it needs a charge at all ...
And the watch will report amount of solar energy gathered ... Somewhere.
I'd say the main problem is that sometimes the watch stays on battery so long I forget it needs a charge at all ...
From the review I just read, the Fenix 7 greatly increases the solar capacity compared to the Fenix 6.
It looks like a great watch but compared to my Fossil HR Collider: far more expensive, color screen instead of e-ink.
It looks like a great watch but compared to my Fossil HR Collider: far more expensive, color screen instead of e-ink.
Too bad Garmin only targets the sporty look.
If they made something that looked well with a suit too, maybe I'd bite.
Or have they and I'm just not up to date with options?
If they made something that looked well with a suit too, maybe I'd bite.
Or have they and I'm just not up to date with options?
Honestly, Fenix series looks great with suits too, especially if you go for silvery-looking variants. I have metal bracelet for the times we need to go all out formal. They are, however, pretty chunky.
Consider for example https://res.garmin.com/transform/image/upload/c_limit,dpr_1....
Consider for example https://res.garmin.com/transform/image/upload/c_limit,dpr_1....
Oh. That does look like a watch. Seems to be the only model though.
Noted, thanks.
Noted, thanks.
Well, Fenix series all look like that, at least since 5 which was my first Garmin.
Not the ones with plastic bracelets, thank you very much.
I've clicked around a bit and i could find just one metal bracelet. And zero leather (even fake).
I know you can generally swap bracelets* - if they're standard - but there's enough plastic garbage in the world if you ask me.
* easy with leather, but if you want a metal bracelet that matches the metal body of the watch exactly, hard.
I've clicked around a bit and i could find just one metal bracelet. And zero leather (even fake).
I know you can generally swap bracelets* - if they're standard - but there's enough plastic garbage in the world if you ask me.
* easy with leather, but if you want a metal bracelet that matches the metal body of the watch exactly, hard.
I have more than one because I do use mine for training, the more flexible cloth or rubber ones for training, metal one for outings.
The one I got as a gift is a solar Instinct. I'll have to ask her what she thinks of it. I looked at the log of solar activity and it does keep track of solar intensity through the day. I just am not sure how much it impacts charging.
I have an Instinct 2X Tactical with solar charging, and from what I see with normal usage it prolongs battery life 1.5-2x in sunny weather. Probably if you optimize the power consumption it could fully offset the discharge, as advertised.
Very much like this watch, especially with aftermarket Velcro strap. It's also surprising how useful the builtin flashlight is on a watch, much more convenient in everyday use than one in a phone.
Very much like this watch, especially with aftermarket Velcro strap. It's also surprising how useful the builtin flashlight is on a watch, much more convenient in everyday use than one in a phone.
there are vids that cover it, but honestly? Garmin batteries last _a long time_. Especially if you are more of an indoor person, they last so long. Good replacement for the Pebble tbh
Happy owner for 4 years of a Garmin Fenix 5.
I wear it everyday and it has happily survived many water sports including a lot of surfing sessions. Practical, no bullshit (I don't want most of "smart" watch features, I have my phone for that), long battery life (I can record several day hike or full ski days without needing a recharge) and quite resistant (I took the Sapphire + Titanium version).
Only thing that could make me take a new Garmin model would be glucose tracking.
I wear it everyday and it has happily survived many water sports including a lot of surfing sessions. Practical, no bullshit (I don't want most of "smart" watch features, I have my phone for that), long battery life (I can record several day hike or full ski days without needing a recharge) and quite resistant (I took the Sapphire + Titanium version).
Only thing that could make me take a new Garmin model would be glucose tracking.
I switched to the Coros Vertix from Garmin Fenix a few years ago. At the time it was because their battery life was massively better. Things have evened out since. But I've been really happy with all aspects of the Coros and it's at a lower price point to the equivalent Garmin. I don't use the traditional "smartwatch" features, i.e. phone notifications, since they seemed unreliable and annoying.
I recently tried a Pixel Watch 2 for a few days. The experience was terrible. Battery life is laughable and the interface made me want to smash it. Also wasn't really useful since everything is compromised by the form factor. Dick Tracy calls were kinda fun for 2 mins though.
I recently tried a Pixel Watch 2 for a few days. The experience was terrible. Battery life is laughable and the interface made me want to smash it. Also wasn't really useful since everything is compromised by the form factor. Dick Tracy calls were kinda fun for 2 mins though.
Why does this keep happening? I loved Pebble, they get butchered. I replace it with Fossil, now they quit.
All I want is a simple watch with simple features that doesn't require charging every day. Their hybrid line with some sort of e-ink (like) display really is perfect to me.
All I want is a simple watch with simple features that doesn't require charging every day. Their hybrid line with some sort of e-ink (like) display really is perfect to me.
There's still Garmin... but honestly, I don't understand why people insist on paying hundreds of dollars for a "name", when the watch you are describing is only worth $50, give or take.
Amazfit, Xiamoni, Pautios, etc. There's a flood of competitors on Amazon selling the functionality you describe at a price level that makes it non-worthwhile for the "name" brands. That's why those famous brands exit the space.
There are two leagues of "smart" watches. At the high-end, "cell phone on your wrist" tier, there's Apple and just enough smaller players to keep Apple somewhat honest. It's really more fashion accessory than practical device.
At the basic "pedometer, Bluetooth notifications from my phone, and week-long battery" tier, there are tons of options. But margins are razor thin, so the cool names don't play in that space. Down here you're talking about a purely utilitarian device rather than a fashion accessory.
Amazfit, Xiamoni, Pautios, etc. There's a flood of competitors on Amazon selling the functionality you describe at a price level that makes it non-worthwhile for the "name" brands. That's why those famous brands exit the space.
There are two leagues of "smart" watches. At the high-end, "cell phone on your wrist" tier, there's Apple and just enough smaller players to keep Apple somewhat honest. It's really more fashion accessory than practical device.
At the basic "pedometer, Bluetooth notifications from my phone, and week-long battery" tier, there are tons of options. But margins are razor thin, so the cool names don't play in that space. Down here you're talking about a purely utilitarian device rather than a fashion accessory.
> There's still Garmin... but honestly, I don't understand why people insist on paying hundreds of dollars for a "name",
Another way of saying "paying for a name" is "paying for trust". When you run notifications through a smart watch you give it a lot of sensitive information. For example the contents of texts you receive. Depending on the device/implementation it can be a lot more. If it manages this data via a companion app then it's pretty easy for it to phone home too.
I don't turn notifications on my watch, I'm distracted enough as is, but if I did I'd be careful about the device I use. I suspect some of those bottom of the barrel devices aren't treating this sensitive level of access with the upmost care.
Another way of saying "paying for a name" is "paying for trust". When you run notifications through a smart watch you give it a lot of sensitive information. For example the contents of texts you receive. Depending on the device/implementation it can be a lot more. If it manages this data via a companion app then it's pretty easy for it to phone home too.
I don't turn notifications on my watch, I'm distracted enough as is, but if I did I'd be careful about the device I use. I suspect some of those bottom of the barrel devices aren't treating this sensitive level of access with the upmost care.
OK, but either way, the preceding comment has offered an explanation for why vendors keep doing this: because they can't make money in this space.
> I don't understand why people insist on paying hundreds of dollars for a "name", when the watch you are describing is only worth $50, give or take.
Why do people pay for The North Face, when you can have knock-off brands for 1/5th the price?
Part of it is paying for better quality assurance, more predictable and coherent UX, and so on. But a big part is that yeah, this day and age, watches are fashion / status accessories. They do nothing your phone can't. That doesn't mean they have no value to the buyers: the continued popularity of pricey mechanical watches is proof that there's more to this story.
The problem is that smartwatches never really positioned themselves as particularly... interesting. They don't signal social status, they aren't pretty, they don't do anything mind-blowing. They're just somewhat cheap-looking and oversized black slabs that display messages from your phone, clumsily.
So far, the closest to a "killer" application for the tech is trying to gamify everyday activities by tracking steps, sleep patterns, or heart rate. But how many people stay fixated on this and really keep it up in the long haul? As for the fashion part... there's only so much mileage you can get out of the ability to change wallpapers or bands.
Why do people pay for The North Face, when you can have knock-off brands for 1/5th the price?
Part of it is paying for better quality assurance, more predictable and coherent UX, and so on. But a big part is that yeah, this day and age, watches are fashion / status accessories. They do nothing your phone can't. That doesn't mean they have no value to the buyers: the continued popularity of pricey mechanical watches is proof that there's more to this story.
The problem is that smartwatches never really positioned themselves as particularly... interesting. They don't signal social status, they aren't pretty, they don't do anything mind-blowing. They're just somewhat cheap-looking and oversized black slabs that display messages from your phone, clumsily.
So far, the closest to a "killer" application for the tech is trying to gamify everyday activities by tracking steps, sleep patterns, or heart rate. But how many people stay fixated on this and really keep it up in the long haul? As for the fashion part... there's only so much mileage you can get out of the ability to change wallpapers or bands.
For me, what has been a "killer" feature is the ability to use voice commands to:
- Send and respond to messages.
- Set timers.
- Set reminders.
This is far easier than getting out a phone and trying to type on a horrid touchscreen keyboard.
Paying for things and timing runs are also useful. The Apple Watch does all these things adequately, though I don't like using an iPhone.
- Send and respond to messages.
- Set timers.
- Set reminders.
This is far easier than getting out a phone and trying to type on a horrid touchscreen keyboard.
Paying for things and timing runs are also useful. The Apple Watch does all these things adequately, though I don't like using an iPhone.
>They do nothing your phone can't.
Huh? The simple fitness tracker watches track your heart rate, sleep quality, step count, etc. Your phone can't do any of that stuff; you need something attached to your body for those measurements.
>So far, the closest to a "killer" application for the tech is trying to gamify everyday activities by tracking steps, sleep patterns, or heart rate.
So you just contradicted your earlier statement.
>As for the fashion part...
My cheap Amazfit fitness tracker is not fashionable at all: it's very boring looking, and no new band is going to change that.
For some people, overpriced watches might be a fashion symbol, but for others (esp. anyone spending less than $75) they're really not.
Huh? The simple fitness tracker watches track your heart rate, sleep quality, step count, etc. Your phone can't do any of that stuff; you need something attached to your body for those measurements.
>So far, the closest to a "killer" application for the tech is trying to gamify everyday activities by tracking steps, sleep patterns, or heart rate.
So you just contradicted your earlier statement.
>As for the fashion part...
My cheap Amazfit fitness tracker is not fashionable at all: it's very boring looking, and no new band is going to change that.
For some people, overpriced watches might be a fashion symbol, but for others (esp. anyone spending less than $75) they're really not.
With garmin, you can just go use the watch.
I have simply used the watch since the day I bought it. took it out of the box, put it on my wrist.
I've kept track of my SLEEP, my hiking or running, I've acclimatized to the mountains, I can check my resting heart rate, number of steps, maps, sunrise/sunset, respiration, stress, pulseox, etc..
It is not uploading my sexual activity. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37514355
I've never put it online, connected it to my phone or anything else. I've never had to create an account or upload anything.
I put it on the charger when I jump in the shower and that is all I need. A charge lasts 5-6 days.
I have simply used the watch since the day I bought it. took it out of the box, put it on my wrist.
I've kept track of my SLEEP, my hiking or running, I've acclimatized to the mountains, I can check my resting heart rate, number of steps, maps, sunrise/sunset, respiration, stress, pulseox, etc..
It is not uploading my sexual activity. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37514355
I've never put it online, connected it to my phone or anything else. I've never had to create an account or upload anything.
I put it on the charger when I jump in the shower and that is all I need. A charge lasts 5-6 days.
Fossil is in an entirely different market: fashion acessories. Their smartwatches don't do much apart from displaying texts and vibrating when you get a call. Whoever wants a fashion item that does stuff, buys an Apple Watch instead. I have a Garmin as well, since I don't care for fashion items.
This.
It does what I want it to do and it doesn't do anything I don't want it to do.
It does what I want it to do and it doesn't do anything I don't want it to do.
Something that has gps, can display a bit of a map, and is waterproof is somewhere between your two leagues and I think it's genuinely useful.
Why a GPS? Do you ever go anywhere without your phone where a GPS would be useful?
Not the person you are replying to, but I find it vastly more convenient to not pull out my phone all the time to check the directions to make sure I am on the right track. With a smartwatch, checking directions feels about as frictionless and simple as checking an analog watch for time.
For those running, I can see it being useful as well. GPS for tracking the morning run, with zero need to carry your heavy phone with you. And (talking about apple watch specifically, as that’s the one I have experience with), you can even connect your wireless headphones directly and listen to music too without needing a phone.
For those running, I can see it being useful as well. GPS for tracking the morning run, with zero need to carry your heavy phone with you. And (talking about apple watch specifically, as that’s the one I have experience with), you can even connect your wireless headphones directly and listen to music too without needing a phone.
It's great for outdoor sports - it's uncomfortable to carry your phone while running or swimming, for example.
Yes: using turn-by-turn GPS directions while riding a bicycle or motorcycle. My Pebble Time was perfect for this. I have not found a replacement.
When out backpacking its nice to have a GPS that is attached to your arm and always works, as opposed to fighting for signal with your phone.
yes. I do outdoor sports, mostly rowing. My phone is not that waterproof, I will not risk dropping it in the water. I would not be able to use anyway. I really like to do things without bringing a phone. Plus the whole privacy issue.
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That adds a lot of power drain.
The Apple Watch has best in class health sensors + fitness monitoring. Cycle tracking, blood O2 sensing, ecg function are all truly valuable.
I bought a watch for myself, my parents and my girlfriend. The prompting and social aspects of the “close your rings” exercise tracking have already led to a ~10 bpm decrease in my girlfriend’s resting heart rate, suggesting a marked improvement in her cardiovascular health.
Personally, I find the Apple Watch somewhat ugly, but the fitness features are worth the sartorial limitations!
I bought a watch for myself, my parents and my girlfriend. The prompting and social aspects of the “close your rings” exercise tracking have already led to a ~10 bpm decrease in my girlfriend’s resting heart rate, suggesting a marked improvement in her cardiovascular health.
Personally, I find the Apple Watch somewhat ugly, but the fitness features are worth the sartorial limitations!
That "best in class" is only true if you listen to Apple's marketing.
The sensors in Garmin, Suunto, Samsung, and many others are equally as good, plus Garmin and Suunto have significantly better battery life than Apple too.
The sensors in Garmin, Suunto, Samsung, and many others are equally as good, plus Garmin and Suunto have significantly better battery life than Apple too.
> just enough smaller players to keep Apple somewhat honest
so honest they use unlicensed tech?
so honest they use unlicensed tech?
I want a brand I trust (not to track me) when using a device equipped with a GPS radio and hooked up to an app on my internet-connected smartphone. I tried an Amazfit and it was pretty good, but the privacy/security concerns were one of the main reasons I didn't go with it.
> It's really more fashion accessory than practical device.
It’s one of the most practical devices I own but I hadnt considered it a fashion accessory. Nobody who sees my watch thinks that, in fact most think the opposite but I’m ok with it cause I didn't get it to serve that purpose.
Maybe it’s because I own the poor version with a plain black sports band. Maybe if I owned a prettier one I’d get more compliments. However I have real watches when I need something like that which I think look much nicer if I’m going to dress up etc.
edit
To be fair I’m the furthest thing from fashionable and always have been so…I’m probably not the best judge of these things I suppose.
It’s one of the most practical devices I own but I hadnt considered it a fashion accessory. Nobody who sees my watch thinks that, in fact most think the opposite but I’m ok with it cause I didn't get it to serve that purpose.
Maybe it’s because I own the poor version with a plain black sports band. Maybe if I owned a prettier one I’d get more compliments. However I have real watches when I need something like that which I think look much nicer if I’m going to dress up etc.
edit
To be fair I’m the furthest thing from fashionable and always have been so…I’m probably not the best judge of these things I suppose.
You say this but Garmin and Xiaomi are the only ones shipping things with week+ long batteries right? There's an extreme qualitative difference in "I need to charge this once every 2 days (or more like every day)" and "I need to charge this once every 10 days"
Every brand I mentioned above has battery life of at least a week. My current watch is between 10 and 14 days.
Do remember that I'm replying to a parent comment looking for "a simple watch with simple features". The watches that I'm referring to are basically pedometers and sleep trackers, with Bluetooth notifications from your phone. Of course it's possible to get week+ battery life with that feature set, even with a nice-looking AMOLED display. If you're willing to settle for an TFT-LCD display (I don't recommend it), then you can get nearly a month.
Then additional replies come along, saying, "Oh, but ---I--- need independent on-board GPS and waterproofing to two leagues of depth for my SCUBA hobby, notifications that never ever glitch, and I want a privacy audit trail for all of my super-secret data about how many steps I take per day". Well, okay. Maybe just buy an Apple Watch then? It all depends on your definition of a "smart watch", but I am discussing how I believe that parent commenter and myself define it. If you're incredulous that week+ battery life is ubiquitous in this range, then we may be thinking about completely different things.
Do remember that I'm replying to a parent comment looking for "a simple watch with simple features". The watches that I'm referring to are basically pedometers and sleep trackers, with Bluetooth notifications from your phone. Of course it's possible to get week+ battery life with that feature set, even with a nice-looking AMOLED display. If you're willing to settle for an TFT-LCD display (I don't recommend it), then you can get nearly a month.
Then additional replies come along, saying, "Oh, but ---I--- need independent on-board GPS and waterproofing to two leagues of depth for my SCUBA hobby, notifications that never ever glitch, and I want a privacy audit trail for all of my super-secret data about how many steps I take per day". Well, okay. Maybe just buy an Apple Watch then? It all depends on your definition of a "smart watch", but I am discussing how I believe that parent commenter and myself define it. If you're incredulous that week+ battery life is ubiquitous in this range, then we may be thinking about completely different things.
Sure, I just think the battery life thing is really the difference between usable and not. The Garmins are expensive, the battery life is really good, but the UI itself is pretty simple and has some of the "knockoff MP3 player" vibes that you see in the cheaper devices.
What is your current watch? Curious about what model I could confidently recommend to people who have the battery problem.
What is your current watch? Curious about what model I could confidently recommend to people who have the battery problem.
Amazfit Bip 3. Fifty bucks when I bought it, I see on Amazon that it's creeping up toward $60 now.
Honestly, my favorite watch over the past 5-10 years has been a no-name that shows up on Amazon with a search for "EURANS Smart Watch 44mm, AMOLED Fitness Watch". $20, today. Since it uses standard watch bands, it was easy to find an inexpensive steel upgrade band. The phone app for managing this watch is the best I've used, and there were enough decent-looking watch faces available to make me happy. Battery lasts 12+ days.
Unfortunately, I found that with the EURANS, Bluetooth notifications on my phone were sometimes flaky. With Amazfit, notifications are solid, but sometimes syncing steps from the native app to Apple Health can be flaky. In the ultra low-end range, you're going to deal with something, but for me the Apple Health stuff is easier fix with the occasional manual edit.
Honestly, my favorite watch over the past 5-10 years has been a no-name that shows up on Amazon with a search for "EURANS Smart Watch 44mm, AMOLED Fitness Watch". $20, today. Since it uses standard watch bands, it was easy to find an inexpensive steel upgrade band. The phone app for managing this watch is the best I've used, and there were enough decent-looking watch faces available to make me happy. Battery lasts 12+ days.
Unfortunately, I found that with the EURANS, Bluetooth notifications on my phone were sometimes flaky. With Amazfit, notifications are solid, but sometimes syncing steps from the native app to Apple Health can be flaky. In the ultra low-end range, you're going to deal with something, but for me the Apple Health stuff is easier fix with the occasional manual edit.
I'll have to look at the market again, but two years ago the "cheap smartwatch" class was buggy and shitty.
It's not really. Before my galaxy watch I had a amazfit gts 2 mini which cost me 70 euro, has GPS tracking, barometer, heart rate and SpO2, the works. It is really privacy safe if you pair it with the gadgetbridge app. It works fine , and while you can't install any apps it has a one week battery life even after 2 years of using it. Despite being tiny and light. Not bad at all.
This has been overwhelmingly my experience too, across the entire price range. They're either unusable garbage, or they're mostly functional (and nothing has been as stable as my pebble) but also huge and priced like a fashion accessory.
My recent experience with the expensive smartwatch class is that they're buggy and shitty.
> when the watch you are describing is only worth $50, give or take.
How do you know that it is «only»? The BOM alone is likely to exceed that for a not very smart watch. There is no «only», as there are other costs of running a smartwatch business:
– The cost of engineering the bloody thing: you have to pay salaries to engineers. Smartwatch engineering is a niche skill and not every engineer is capable of creating a good smartwatch design.
– The BOM itself: engineering decisions will affect the BOM. Sacrifices might have to be made, which has a risk of the final product becoming less reliable or less clamourable to consumers.
– Supply chain management: the cost of a stable supply chain might fluctuate but the supply will be stable. A supplier might be cheaper but flaky which means unexpected repurcussions for the production line; for example, components becoming unavailable and requiring re-engineering thusly.
– Integration with smartphones: most users expect a smartphone app, which means actually 2x apps (Android and iOS), which means salaried mobile app developers. Apps require on-going support, so it will become an ongoing expense. If you handwaive the smartphone apps as a nuisance, the watch might be not as appealing to consumers.
– Scale: for the product to be sustainable, it has to be produced in significant numbers. The manufacturing line is unlikely to agree to produce the product in the quantity of, say, 1k units either.
– Quality assurance: customers will abuse the product. So it will have to be tested within a particularly defined framework to reduce the number of support incidents. QA costs money, too.
– Marketing: customers have to discover the product before it can be sold to them and know why they should want this product and not a competitor's. Marketing is not free, even if it is one man show. If the customers can't discover the product, revenue will be zero or close to zero.
– Distribution network: resellers will take a cut from each watch sold which will have to factored into a unit's price. Direct distribution channels can do away with that, but you will have to negotiate contracts with postal and courier services to get the preferential pricing, or pass the cost onto the customer (not every customer likes high shipping costs), procure quality shipping packaging in numbers (the smartwatch is fragile) and be prepared to run to the post office yourself, like, daily.
– Support: stuff breaks. So you will have to commit to and support the product, and support is not free. Customers will come back to you with all sorts unusual problems and sometimes with zany requests. No or poor support, a backlash from customers and alike will not be conducive to the overall success of the enterprise.
– Costs of running the business: accountant(s), sundries, plus your own salary.
– Taxation: the government in your local jurisdiction will send a tax man to you to get a slice.
– Most importantly: profit. Sustainable profit from each unit sold also has to be factored into the price. The product has to become profitable at some point otherwise it will tank and vanish before it reaches v2.
That is a very, very high level breakdown of things that are just on the surface, and there are many nuances and unexpected expenses. All of that defines the cost of a single unit.
At the $50 price point it is unlikely to become a successful smartwatch product.
How do you know that it is «only»? The BOM alone is likely to exceed that for a not very smart watch. There is no «only», as there are other costs of running a smartwatch business:
– The cost of engineering the bloody thing: you have to pay salaries to engineers. Smartwatch engineering is a niche skill and not every engineer is capable of creating a good smartwatch design.
– The BOM itself: engineering decisions will affect the BOM. Sacrifices might have to be made, which has a risk of the final product becoming less reliable or less clamourable to consumers.
– Supply chain management: the cost of a stable supply chain might fluctuate but the supply will be stable. A supplier might be cheaper but flaky which means unexpected repurcussions for the production line; for example, components becoming unavailable and requiring re-engineering thusly.
– Integration with smartphones: most users expect a smartphone app, which means actually 2x apps (Android and iOS), which means salaried mobile app developers. Apps require on-going support, so it will become an ongoing expense. If you handwaive the smartphone apps as a nuisance, the watch might be not as appealing to consumers.
– Scale: for the product to be sustainable, it has to be produced in significant numbers. The manufacturing line is unlikely to agree to produce the product in the quantity of, say, 1k units either.
– Quality assurance: customers will abuse the product. So it will have to be tested within a particularly defined framework to reduce the number of support incidents. QA costs money, too.
– Marketing: customers have to discover the product before it can be sold to them and know why they should want this product and not a competitor's. Marketing is not free, even if it is one man show. If the customers can't discover the product, revenue will be zero or close to zero.
– Distribution network: resellers will take a cut from each watch sold which will have to factored into a unit's price. Direct distribution channels can do away with that, but you will have to negotiate contracts with postal and courier services to get the preferential pricing, or pass the cost onto the customer (not every customer likes high shipping costs), procure quality shipping packaging in numbers (the smartwatch is fragile) and be prepared to run to the post office yourself, like, daily.
– Support: stuff breaks. So you will have to commit to and support the product, and support is not free. Customers will come back to you with all sorts unusual problems and sometimes with zany requests. No or poor support, a backlash from customers and alike will not be conducive to the overall success of the enterprise.
– Costs of running the business: accountant(s), sundries, plus your own salary.
– Taxation: the government in your local jurisdiction will send a tax man to you to get a slice.
– Most importantly: profit. Sustainable profit from each unit sold also has to be factored into the price. The product has to become profitable at some point otherwise it will tank and vanish before it reaches v2.
That is a very, very high level breakdown of things that are just on the surface, and there are many nuances and unexpected expenses. All of that defines the cost of a single unit.
At the $50 price point it is unlikely to become a successful smartwatch product.
Counterpoint:
(1) I see a myriad of products on Amazon fitting the description that parent comment was talking about, the average retail prices being sub-$50.
(2) We are literally conversing in the comments of a post about name brands withdrawing from this space. Because below the Apple level, margins are too thin.
(1) I see a myriad of products on Amazon fitting the description that parent comment was talking about, the average retail prices being sub-$50.
(2) We are literally conversing in the comments of a post about name brands withdrawing from this space. Because below the Apple level, margins are too thin.
1. It is hard to reason without having a reference to a concrete product. For a start, how would a branded smartwatch and a no-name one compare in terms of:
- Feature parity (hardware and software).
- Build quality (again, hardware, software and materials used in the making).
- Overall quality (will it die in 3 days, in 3 months or will last).
- Support (branded products are sold through local reseller channels and are subject to the local consumer protection laws – if it dies 1 month later, can it be fixed or replaced?)
I did have a quick look at the latest Fossil watch product before chiming in, and their watch seemed like a very sophisticated and polished product. I still have my doubts that there is a $50 functional and quality counterpart to it.
2. Apple has taken up the upper end of the niche for a reason – they have an ecosystem that their watch products weave into seamlessly. Their watch can even be used to unlock a MacBook in the direct proximity of it – it is a bonus feature, unrelated to the watch functionality itself but is possible because of the ecosystem.
Non-Apple products would always remain 2nd class citizens on the Apple platform due to having to interoperate with someone else's platform by virtue of being a standalone watch product and not part of their own ecosystem.
Even if the Apple ecosystem was entirely unlocked and open to third party watch products, the competing watch products would still always lag behind due to having to constantly playing a catch-up with new platform features.
- Feature parity (hardware and software).
- Build quality (again, hardware, software and materials used in the making).
- Overall quality (will it die in 3 days, in 3 months or will last).
- Support (branded products are sold through local reseller channels and are subject to the local consumer protection laws – if it dies 1 month later, can it be fixed or replaced?)
I did have a quick look at the latest Fossil watch product before chiming in, and their watch seemed like a very sophisticated and polished product. I still have my doubts that there is a $50 functional and quality counterpart to it.
2. Apple has taken up the upper end of the niche for a reason – they have an ecosystem that their watch products weave into seamlessly. Their watch can even be used to unlock a MacBook in the direct proximity of it – it is a bonus feature, unrelated to the watch functionality itself but is possible because of the ecosystem.
Non-Apple products would always remain 2nd class citizens on the Apple platform due to having to interoperate with someone else's platform by virtue of being a standalone watch product and not part of their own ecosystem.
Even if the Apple ecosystem was entirely unlocked and open to third party watch products, the competing watch products would still always lag behind due to having to constantly playing a catch-up with new platform features.
> Their watch can even be used to unlock a MacBook in the direct proximity of it – it is a bonus feature, unrelated to the watch functionality itself but is possible because of the ecosystem.
I know it's a small thing, but I have to wake up early several days a month to perform a production health check at work, and I love the smooth integration:
1. Roll out of bed
2. Put on my Apple Watch
3. Unlock my iPhone with FaceID as I'm walking to my laptop
4. My iPhone unlocks my Watch by the time I get there
5. I tap a key on my keyboard, and my Watch unlocks my laptop
Unfortunately that smooth integration comes to a crashing halt when I have to log into my work VDI, but the Apple ecosystem is a very warm, welcoming place.
I know it's a small thing, but I have to wake up early several days a month to perform a production health check at work, and I love the smooth integration:
1. Roll out of bed
2. Put on my Apple Watch
3. Unlock my iPhone with FaceID as I'm walking to my laptop
4. My iPhone unlocks my Watch by the time I get there
5. I tap a key on my keyboard, and my Watch unlocks my laptop
Unfortunately that smooth integration comes to a crashing halt when I have to log into my work VDI, but the Apple ecosystem is a very warm, welcoming place.
Have you actually used the Amazon $50 devices? It would not be the first time that the claims made in the description were sharply undercut by the actual product. I’d easily believe that a tight BOM lets you put something roughly watch-sized together but that it involves enough compromises that few people would consider it a true competitor.
I bought my wife a Withings ScanWatch, and it's really sleek. [1]
It's among the few hybrids that look like a proper, stylish watch; I compared it with hybrids from Garmin and some other leading brands, and Withings was without doubt the one with the best construction quality and aesthetics. (I didn't consider Fossil, not sure why.) Garmin's models are mostly plastic, but even the higher-end models have a kind of cheap look to them.
[1] https://www.withings.com/us/en/scanwatch-2
It's among the few hybrids that look like a proper, stylish watch; I compared it with hybrids from Garmin and some other leading brands, and Withings was without doubt the one with the best construction quality and aesthetics. (I didn't consider Fossil, not sure why.) Garmin's models are mostly plastic, but even the higher-end models have a kind of cheap look to them.
[1] https://www.withings.com/us/en/scanwatch-2
I was excited because I generally like Withings, use many of their other products and hadn't even thought to check if they made watches.
I'm ready to ditch Fitbit as Google seems to be doing everything they can to kill it. They bricked a bunch of devices and told everyone to just buy a new one.
But it's frustrating that so many companies insist on the huge traditional size watch faces. I don't need or want the time or apps on my wrist, just the health features. All the competitors to Fitbit, especially Garmin, seem to be having their own competition of who can make the ugliest device that they can convince people to buy.
I'm ready to ditch Fitbit as Google seems to be doing everything they can to kill it. They bricked a bunch of devices and told everyone to just buy a new one.
But it's frustrating that so many companies insist on the huge traditional size watch faces. I don't need or want the time or apps on my wrist, just the health features. All the competitors to Fitbit, especially Garmin, seem to be having their own competition of who can make the ugliest device that they can convince people to buy.
I really loved my scanwatch but there was two major problems:
The hardware (at least gen 1) has around a 1 year lifespan due to the quality of the seals. You can only get a warranty replacement once. Mine literally fell apart once when I put it on, then the other one was shorting out in the case.
They don’t allow heart rate sharing over Bluetooth. Kind of a niche feature but this stops you from using it as a heart rate monitor with a bike computer or other exercise equipment.
In the end, after the support refused to service my watch for a warranty repair, I just switched to a Garmin Venu 3S, which I like, but I do miss that semi-analogue design.
The hardware (at least gen 1) has around a 1 year lifespan due to the quality of the seals. You can only get a warranty replacement once. Mine literally fell apart once when I put it on, then the other one was shorting out in the case.
They don’t allow heart rate sharing over Bluetooth. Kind of a niche feature but this stops you from using it as a heart rate monitor with a bike computer or other exercise equipment.
In the end, after the support refused to service my watch for a warranty repair, I just switched to a Garmin Venu 3S, which I like, but I do miss that semi-analogue design.
Surprised Masimo did not sue them yet for oximeter
Withings is French, which would complicate Masimo’s legal strategy. They’ve probably got their hands full going after the big fish in America where their patents were originally granted.
They sued Apple because it infringed on their patent by implementing their specific method for pulse oximeter. Garmin however, developed their own and didn't take it from Masimo.
These look great, hopefully they can get a NFC-enabled version out soon.
is the temperature monitoring accurate enough to track ovulation cycles?
It's designed to be [1]. I don't personally know how accurate it is.
[1] https://support.withings.com/hc/en-us/articles/1853769342926...
[1] https://support.withings.com/hc/en-us/articles/1853769342926...
while the linked document is a good primer on menstruation, it doesn't say anything about the watch(es) capabilities in this regard.
thx anyways
thx anyways
This is probably a better article: https://support.withings.com/hc/en-us/articles/1958311747419...
The Garmin Instinct range is great. It natively is a smart watch but I guess you can turn it off, and just use the GPS to sync time. I have the original version and it lasts 2 weeks on a charge. The always-on memory-in-pixel is most readable in bright light (and had a back light that can be turned on by button or wrist twist if you like)
I think Ive owned every smart watch from the very old school tom toms and polars to apple watches to early android wear models and the Instinct 2 Solar is the best balance of functionality and battery life Ive ever seen.
14 days battery time is pretty good, but nothing compares to the 1month+ my Fossil Machine keeps going.
When you only need notifications, and some music control, it works really well.
When you only need notifications, and some music control, it works really well.
My Garmin Fenix 7 Solar happily crosses the 20-25d mark, depending on usage.
I have most features enabled though, using it as "just a watch" (which is what the tunable battery saver mode is, which I used a fee times in a bind) it turns 2d remaining into 1w+, so I would not be surprised if it would turn the 20-25d into 50-75d ballpark, possibly more.
Instinct Solar and Crossover Solar seem to give the above a run with much longer times, a friend is getting a Crossover this month because of that. Unfortunately if the claim is true he's not going to be able to report success for a looong time...
I have most features enabled though, using it as "just a watch" (which is what the tunable battery saver mode is, which I used a fee times in a bind) it turns 2d remaining into 1w+, so I would not be surprised if it would turn the 20-25d into 50-75d ballpark, possibly more.
Instinct Solar and Crossover Solar seem to give the above a run with much longer times, a friend is getting a Crossover this month because of that. Unfortunately if the claim is true he's not going to be able to report success for a looong time...
Having its own tiny OS with Monkey C, instead of a cutted down Android variant, is also a big help for long battery life.
Withings watches offer a similar battery life, it really depends on how much the watch vibrates when notifications are routed to the watch.
I love my Withings. Given what I've read about the Fossil application experience, I assume Withings is better in that regard too.
I love my Withings. Given what I've read about the Fossil application experience, I assume Withings is better in that regard too.
Withings watches don’t seem to have a GPS radio, though. The advertised “connected GPS” means GPS date pulled over Bluetooth from your smartphone, correlated with other data from the watch by an app running on your smartphone, at which point it becomes unclear how this counts as a feature of the watch in the first place.
This is the case for many "hybrid" smart watches including the parents Fossil Machine. I believe the true feature is the display of distance travelled on the watch reported by the phone and app.
They also work well when you want to tell the time, which is more than can be said for some smart watches.
The solar version can last indefinitely if you’re outdoors for a decent amount of time.
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My Garmin Instinct 2X lasts 42 days.
That really depends on which the "simple features" are, because to every user, they're different, and also, what a "watch" is.
The reason I'm making this distinction is because at face value, any fitness tracker will do. They display the timme/date, have many extra simple features, and they last 10/14 days.
If one wants something more watch-looking, there are small/budget smartwatches, that are essentially fitness trackers with a larger screen (and in some cases, a GPS).
The problem is actually the apps, which are terrible and/or aggressive. Huawei display ads, and very weaselly, they introduce a small delay, so that one can easily click on them by accident; also, for some models, the app is not provided on Google Play (!). Most, possibly all, apps keep warning the user about giving location permissions, even if one doesn't care.
Besides very special cases (solar-powered, battery-powered etc.), the smartwatch with the longest battery life was the Amazfit Bip, but it was really, really terrible.
The reason I'm making this distinction is because at face value, any fitness tracker will do. They display the timme/date, have many extra simple features, and they last 10/14 days.
If one wants something more watch-looking, there are small/budget smartwatches, that are essentially fitness trackers with a larger screen (and in some cases, a GPS).
The problem is actually the apps, which are terrible and/or aggressive. Huawei display ads, and very weaselly, they introduce a small delay, so that one can easily click on them by accident; also, for some models, the app is not provided on Google Play (!). Most, possibly all, apps keep warning the user about giving location permissions, even if one doesn't care.
Besides very special cases (solar-powered, battery-powered etc.), the smartwatch with the longest battery life was the Amazfit Bip, but it was really, really terrible.
Counterpoint, I've been a very happy user of an Amazfit Bip for about 6 years now, wearing it 24/7 aside from showering and medical procedures. It does absolutely everything I need it to, and even after 6 years the battery gets me multiple weeks. My only complaint is that the UI is a bit sluggish, but it hasn't kept it from being a great device.
This works for the use case where the user never uses the companion app, which in turn means never using things like alarms, and so on.
Any operation connecting the app to the phone requires syncing first, which takes an inordinate amoujnt of time (I don't have the Bip anymore, but I think it was a minute or so). On top of that, if the app has been recently updated, the AGPS will need to be resynced, which AFAIR, takes a few minutes.
Zepp sucks in this department. Modern Amazfit smartwatches still take a disproportionate time (compared to the competitors) to sync, but at least they do it asynchronously.
Any operation connecting the app to the phone requires syncing first, which takes an inordinate amoujnt of time (I don't have the Bip anymore, but I think it was a minute or so). On top of that, if the app has been recently updated, the AGPS will need to be resynced, which AFAIR, takes a few minutes.
Zepp sucks in this department. Modern Amazfit smartwatches still take a disproportionate time (compared to the competitors) to sync, but at least they do it asynchronously.
I agree the app sucks (as does the extended syncing process it kicks off), but the watch works perfectly fine if you almost never use it. Alarms can be enabled/disabled on the watch (for vacations and the like), and my normal "wake up for work" alarm has been set to the same time for years.
Garmin.
They've got models with various kinds of displays, from transflective outdoor usable ones to the usual OLED.
Battery life on the non-OLED models can be very good too, especially on the solar ones, a month or more in most cases.
They've got models with various kinds of displays, from transflective outdoor usable ones to the usual OLED.
Battery life on the non-OLED models can be very good too, especially on the solar ones, a month or more in most cases.
Yep. I'm willing to pay extra for something dead simple that does what it needs to do and nothing more. No ads or distractions, connecting to sensors over ANT+ "just works", devices are supported for years, and if I think of a useful feature or metric to display I can create a monkey C module in about an hour.
Makes me wish all IOT devices were like that.
My only gripe with them is their segmentation of devices with nearly identical hardware into different segments (e.g. edge explore vs edge 130) and walling off features.
Garmin is a little bit closed off, that's the main downside.
And as far as I can tell their app needs internet to sync data from the watch even though it's connected via bluetooth, I assume it's uploading to their servers for processing before viewing in app.
Other than that it works great, I have no complaints about my Venu 2.
And as far as I can tell their app needs internet to sync data from the watch even though it's connected via bluetooth, I assume it's uploading to their servers for processing before viewing in app.
Other than that it works great, I have no complaints about my Venu 2.
Note it can vary depending greatly on settings, which is kind of nice. I have a Forerunner 745 (sweet spot of features and price on Prime day), and I can get, IIRC, a solid week plus with the default settings. I ended up dialing way up the settings to get better tracking of sleep, which took the battery life to around 2.5 days.
As someone that was into Casio smartwatches back into the day, after they lose their novelty, all what most people want is knowing time.
I got a basic Amazfit model now, besides time, I only care about SMS notifications and having it vibrate on calls.
A single charge lasts around a month.
I got a basic Amazfit model now, besides time, I only care about SMS notifications and having it vibrate on calls.
A single charge lasts around a month.
I’m right there with you. After my Pebble, I tried tons of watches and settled on a garmin forerunner. It is pretty good and I do enjoy the larger screen. But there are still days when I wish I could get the battery replaced in my Pebble and switch back to it.
I have been hoping that fossil (whose watch I didn’t pick originally because I found the interface sluggish, text hard to read, and light difficult to trigger) would release an updated model that would be my next watch. Pretty bummed to see this news.
I have been hoping that fossil (whose watch I didn’t pick originally because I found the interface sluggish, text hard to read, and light difficult to trigger) would release an updated model that would be my next watch. Pretty bummed to see this news.
The Amazfit BIP does all that and can be hacked. The bip2 is much faster and can't be hacked. Both can have GPS and I ran mine for many weeks at a time with notifications, sleep tracking, pedometer, weather, etc.
The Amazfit GTR4 is also quite nice, with a crisp display, multiple physical buttons, and weeks of battery life. However I found it became unpaired from my phone every week or so, and I didn't feel awesome about entrusting my GPS-based location to a company that I don't know/trust. I also wanted better music controls via the physical buttons, which it didn't really do well.
How did you hack the BIP, and what did you do with it then?
How did you hack the BIP, and what did you do with it then?
It was a Russian forum, but I can't find it. https://github.com/MNVolkov/libbip https://likeapp.soft112.com it's called BipOS.
The device is safe since on iOS I restrict the Zepp app from any internet, but you need to refresh your GPS with the app. On Android it's much safer with something like gadgetbridge.
The device is safe since on iOS I restrict the Zepp app from any internet, but you need to refresh your GPS with the app. On Android it's much safer with something like gadgetbridge.
How do you restrict an app from internet on iOS? I know how to turn off cellular access but didn’t think it was possible to cut off all access (other than going into airplane mode before opening it, and turning off background refresh).
It is in cellular, you can disable wifi in the apps when you scroll. Lots of cool features get buried or are unknown in iOS.
When I go to Settings > Cellular, all I see is a list of apps and a toggle to turn off cellular access for the apps. If you can help me find the wifi toggle, that would be amazing.
I deeply apologize. https://old.reddit.com/r/ios/comments/qus47i/has_apple_ever_... It seems to be only a jailbreak or a Chinese feature. It's not standardized like the new apps store. Mine looks like this. https://ibb.co/k474nBH
Yeah gadgetbridge is great. The app doesn't even ask for internet access permission.
I believe it does, I use another privacy based app that can use location and requires data to download the weather stats, but it's optional.
Gadgetbridge doesn't. That's why it needs an external app to be able to show weather if you need it. I use the German weather app but there's several.
As others have said, Amazfit Bip is the answer. You want to find the first one (Bip, or Bip Lite); it has the longest battery life. The watch has notifications, weather, and 40,000 third-party faces. I get consistent ~20 days of battery life with heart rate check every minute (automatically speeds up to every couple of seconds during exercise).
I bought Bip in 2018. I bought a $20 used Bip Lite as replacement in 2020 after Bip failed because of a known issue with the case's glue (fixed in later models), since I always run with my phone so don't need Bip's own GPS.
I bought Bip in 2018. I bought a $20 used Bip Lite as replacement in 2020 after Bip failed because of a known issue with the case's glue (fixed in later models), since I always run with my phone so don't need Bip's own GPS.
Oh, the case glue is a known issue? The face on mine popped off a few years ago and I thought that was an utterly bizarre failure. Fortunately the display stayed attached to the guts, so I just superglued it back on and it kept working.
> Oh, the case glue is a known issue?
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_--wQvPxyA>
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_--wQvPxyA>
Basically a fitness band with 3 weeks of battery life that does 90% of typical smartwatch usage. IMO this is where huawei watches got it right, they're glorified smartbands with good hardware with a hardware button that adds extra utility (too bad non programmable).
But yes to epaper screen and programmable buttons would be nice. Pebble was 10 years ago, I thought we'd be at commodity F91W smartwatch hardware by now. And TBF $50 fitness trackers are close.
But yes to epaper screen and programmable buttons would be nice. Pebble was 10 years ago, I thought we'd be at commodity F91W smartwatch hardware by now. And TBF $50 fitness trackers are close.
> that doesn't require charging every day.
Why is this an issue? I have an Apple Watch and Every night when i take it off I put it in the charger. At this point it would be more confusing if I only needed to do this every other or every third day.
Why is this an issue? I have an Apple Watch and Every night when i take it off I put it in the charger. At this point it would be more confusing if I only needed to do this every other or every third day.
Half the reason i use a "smart watch" is basically to track my sleep.
My old Amazfit bip seems like it may give up on me any time now.. but I still can't find something that comes close to this in terms of it's 4 week battery life. Not even fitness trackers.
I already have to charge my laptop, smartphone, steam deck daily. If i have to add earphones and smart watch to that list, it would be just too much for me.
My old Amazfit bip seems like it may give up on me any time now.. but I still can't find something that comes close to this in terms of it's 4 week battery life. Not even fitness trackers.
I already have to charge my laptop, smartphone, steam deck daily. If i have to add earphones and smart watch to that list, it would be just too much for me.
I just take the Apple Watch off for showering in the morning.
Same, pain to deal with a wet watch anyways.
Is this because of the touch screen? I have only ever used my garmins. I can't imagine having a watch I could not use in the rain.
Touch screen, the silicone/cloth straps absorbing/holding some moisture and making the wrist feel sweaty for the next hour or so..
Not having to think about charging another device is huge, and it charges so quickly that if I forget before an activity that I can plug it in while I’m getting ready or showering and have plenty of juice to last throughout.
Real reason I got my forerunner though is for backpacking and skiing, so conditions where I’ll be in extreme temperatures batteries don’t like, without cell phone service, without power overnight, and potentially needing to navigate on offline maps. I know this doesn’t reflect the average buyer though.
Real reason I got my forerunner though is for backpacking and skiing, so conditions where I’ll be in extreme temperatures batteries don’t like, without cell phone service, without power overnight, and potentially needing to navigate on offline maps. I know this doesn’t reflect the average buyer though.
If for any reason you forget, its useless. If youre traveling and forget the charger there is exactly one place you can get another. Its also pretty ugly.
I assume you mean that the Apple Store is the only place you can get a charger? I don't know where you live or where you're traveling, but I just checked on Walmart and they're in stock, available for pickup at the two Walmarts within 20 miles of where I live in rural Iowa. Same for Best Buy and Target.
> Its also pretty ugly.
Subjective obviously but I quite like how they look.
> Its also pretty ugly.
Subjective obviously but I quite like how they look.
I did not know Walmart sold them. I regularly forget they exist honestly and I buy all of my Apple products from Apple or Anker. I collected watches prior to the Apple Watch so Im partial to the creativity of non-smart watches. The Ultra looks nice though.
I’ve had two Apple watches and never charged them in an Apple charger. I have a third party charger that works great and a different third-party battery-based charger.
I’m annoyed every time I go overnight somewhere I have to pack a charger. I don’t use many smart features…
then why have smart watch?
So if you don't have to charge every day it's not a smart watch?
It's not that difficult to produce a smart watch that can keep a battery for a week so I don't understand why you feel the need to condition people to get used to the horrible battery lives of popular watches as if it's the only way.
I'm a big fan of Garmin's hybrid watches that are smart "enough" but provide a 9 day battery life. Recently, Mobvoi made it possible to have an Android Wear smart watch with a multi-day battery (TicWatch). Something that Google Pixel will have you think to be impossible.
It's not that difficult to produce a smart watch that can keep a battery for a week so I don't understand why you feel the need to condition people to get used to the horrible battery lives of popular watches as if it's the only way.
I'm a big fan of Garmin's hybrid watches that are smart "enough" but provide a 9 day battery life. Recently, Mobvoi made it possible to have an Android Wear smart watch with a multi-day battery (TicWatch). Something that Google Pixel will have you think to be impossible.
I actually did do garmin watch for 5 or 6 years before recently jumping to apple. In most ways I did like my garmin better.
My only day to day upgrade with apple watch, is it allowed me to stream music to my airpods on a run without my phone. But I think Garmin has since released phones that can store music..
I'm not using my apple watch to run "apps" past podcast/music/running tracking.
My only day to day upgrade with apple watch, is it allowed me to stream music to my airpods on a run without my phone. But I think Garmin has since released phones that can store music..
I'm not using my apple watch to run "apps" past podcast/music/running tracking.
What if you want it to measure your sleep?
You can stick it on the charger while eating, taking a shower or whatever else. With my samsung watch I usually stick it on the charger in the morning or in the hours before bed, when I don't really care about collecting any data/don't have to worry about urgent notifications.
And if I'm out somewhere and don't have my watch charger handy, I can stick it on the back of my phone and charge it from that.
And if I'm out somewhere and don't have my watch charger handy, I can stick it on the back of my phone and charge it from that.
Most Apple Watches these days will easily get ~1.5 days of battery. Mine's usually down to about 30% by the time I wake up, and is back to 100% in roughly the hour my morning routine takes.
I charge it over breakfast and it’s usually fully charged in time my morning run
I've never understood how people can eat before running in the morning. How long do you wait after eating to go out running?
Not OP but when I was running 60+ miles a week, I wouldn’t eat before most runs but I would get up about 2 hours before starting my long run on Sundays to eat a bagel or bowl of oatmeal or something similar. 15-20 miles was just too far for me to go on an empty stomach even if I used a gel or two during the run.
I did always try to get a morning bowel movement before starting my runs though.
I did always try to get a morning bowel movement before starting my runs though.
To clarify, by ‘breakfast’ I mean ‘coffee’.
Because you might want to use sleep tracking and alarms. I have a watch with a three day battery life and it's nice to not have to charge it often.
It was glaring issue when I upgraded to a smart watch that recquired daily charging from smartband that I charged every other week.
[deleted]
Indeed, after my final Pebble died I moved to Fitbit because their Versa line gave me a similar experience, although I miss the eink, then Google picked them up and proceeded to trash it.
They should have leaned in to it and made the Versa the equivalent Pixel Watch "a" series. Instead we have nothing good left.
They should have leaned in to it and made the Versa the equivalent Pixel Watch "a" series. Instead we have nothing good left.
Try Garmin forerunner, for example forerunner 245 music. Not the same as pts but close enough: a lot of buttons, transflective display, some sort of trimmed quick access, big battery life
Is that really that surprising? The thing about having software everywhere is that it tends to create ecosystems. The one or two companies that control those ecosystems tend to dictate everything which snuffs out a lot of these products.
Watch lovers buy from legacy watch makers. Fitness freaks buy Garmin & smart bands. Tech lovers buy the best integrated software (Samsung/Apple). Quirky product fans aren't volume buyers.
What is Fossil's identity ?
What is Fossil's identity ?
Fashion items, stainless steel jewelry sold for the price of silver. Their smartwatches are hybrids, but I've never liked their baroque designs. If I was buying a fashion watch I'd probably get a Skagen instead, which is also owned by Fossil.
Have you seen the Citizen hybrid watches? Analog hands + eink, 17+ days of battery life.
Garmin's Fenix line is massively overkill but it's in this category, and I got it for this reason. It can go weeks without charging.
I ended up purchasing a Bangle.js 2. Its definitely not in the same class as any of the premium watches but its very inexpensive, open - source and hackable.
To be fair, my list of necessary features was very short: - display the time - display mobile notifications - display weather
To be fair, my list of necessary features was very short: - display the time - display mobile notifications - display weather
>All I want is a simple watch with simple features that doesn't require charging every day
casio?
casio?
Withings
Still using my pebble (I have a PTR and PTS). I gully agree with what you say and would even go further. I am happy with just an eInk screen and some basic features that sync like once a week.
Fyi pebble is not eink, it's transflective lcd, similar to some garmin options nowadays. Basically it's an lcd without backlight by default and in daylight the reflected light is enough to make the content clear and readable
> All I want is a simple watch with simple features that doesn't require charging every day.
Have a look at Pinetime. It won't be discontinued, since it's an open-source smart watch.
Have a look at Pinetime. It won't be discontinued, since it's an open-source smart watch.
Wanted to say the same. Don’t get too much expectation on the feature side, but its a no-bullshit hardware. 25 days without charging, I can accept/refuse my calls, read messages and one of the dumbest yet most useful day to day feature is light my path inside my home without turning on lights and annoy the rest of my family.
> Wanted to say the same.
Then you could upvote me to put my comment at a higher position.
Then you could upvote me to put my comment at a higher position.
What the hell does Apple’s watch do that it drains the battery in a little more than one day? Seems to me like it’s overpowered for what it is. My garmin lasts 10 days.
Garmin, every time.
I've never used them myself, but I always thought the Withings watches looked nice and filled this niche well.
I wore a Withings for a year, it wasn't a terrible watch, but the tiny round display is really too small to be practical for scrolling notifications. Fossil/Citizen/Skagen all make variations of my current watch[1] which have much larger e-ink displays, are pretty easy to make your own faces for (just PNGs with some circles/transparent holes you can set to show data). Battery life is ~2wk though I don't use the heart monitor much.
1: https://www.skagen.com/en-us/smartwatches/learn-more/gen-6-h...
1: https://www.skagen.com/en-us/smartwatches/learn-more/gen-6-h...
Mechanical with automatic movement (wound spontaneously by motion of your wrist).
The Fitbit trackers last about 5 days on a charge.
this is such a hard segment.
Apple Watch feels like it should be the best, but it's so tightly linked to the Apple ecosystem that if you're not all-in then it's the worst option (cannot update it if you don't also have an iPhone)
Garmin looks great, and their watches are good, but their integrations with Apple or Google is weak, and they have so many strange quirks to them (just yesterday my partner's Garmin was out by 90 minutes for most of the day which baffled me as surely NTP + sync time via bluetooth with the phone!?)
Suunto actually is great, except their heart rate tracking is pretty average to awful, which is a real shame as the devices are otherwise excellent
And then the Google Watch ecosystem... watches that all feel laggy, 2nd class, and just lacking polish and finish, even the Pixel Watch just feels cheaper than it should
There's so much potential, but everyone slightly misses the mark for a different reason. I stick with a Casio G-shock which isn't smart, but works exceptionally well for the little it does, but I check out smart watches a few times a year... and it feels like digital SLRs, for a long time they were worse than a film camera, and eventually they were better... smart watches are still in the territory of worse, I'm hoping they continue to get better
Apple Watch feels like it should be the best, but it's so tightly linked to the Apple ecosystem that if you're not all-in then it's the worst option (cannot update it if you don't also have an iPhone)
Garmin looks great, and their watches are good, but their integrations with Apple or Google is weak, and they have so many strange quirks to them (just yesterday my partner's Garmin was out by 90 minutes for most of the day which baffled me as surely NTP + sync time via bluetooth with the phone!?)
Suunto actually is great, except their heart rate tracking is pretty average to awful, which is a real shame as the devices are otherwise excellent
And then the Google Watch ecosystem... watches that all feel laggy, 2nd class, and just lacking polish and finish, even the Pixel Watch just feels cheaper than it should
There's so much potential, but everyone slightly misses the mark for a different reason. I stick with a Casio G-shock which isn't smart, but works exceptionally well for the little it does, but I check out smart watches a few times a year... and it feels like digital SLRs, for a long time they were worse than a film camera, and eventually they were better... smart watches are still in the territory of worse, I'm hoping they continue to get better
The Galaxy Watch from Samsung works great, even if you don't have a Samsung phone.
I keep hearing how much better the Apple Watch is but I still can't see how.
To start with, the GW6 classic looks like an actual classy watch while the Apple watch looks like a tiny phone strapped to your wrist.
I keep hearing how much better the Apple Watch is but I still can't see how.
To start with, the GW6 classic looks like an actual classy watch while the Apple watch looks like a tiny phone strapped to your wrist.
The vast majority of the Apple products which I repeatedly hear are superior are used by people who are completely locked into their ecosystem and only use Apple products.
Which makes their advice less credible for several possible reasons:
* they may not have the exposure to other products to have an authoritative opinion,
* or they have used the products in a completely different context (eg, within the ecosystem with an iCloud account or other accompanying product),
* or they might be expressing a bit of stockholm-esque sentiment ("it's the best I can easily use due to the limitations in which I can use this particular product and I love living within these limitations, so it's clearly the best option because everyone should love living within these limitations too..")
Which makes their advice less credible for several possible reasons:
* they may not have the exposure to other products to have an authoritative opinion,
* or they have used the products in a completely different context (eg, within the ecosystem with an iCloud account or other accompanying product),
* or they might be expressing a bit of stockholm-esque sentiment ("it's the best I can easily use due to the limitations in which I can use this particular product and I love living within these limitations, so it's clearly the best option because everyone should love living within these limitations too..")
I'd put a fourth point, the APIs they give to third party products are inferior to what they give to their own, always.
So even if you wanted to, you could not match the experience of being all-in on their ecosystem. That's intended, so that other products do not compete with theirs and look inferior.
So even if you wanted to, you could not match the experience of being all-in on their ecosystem. That's intended, so that other products do not compete with theirs and look inferior.
People aren't kidnapped into the apple ecosystem, they choose it because its preferable to no ecosystem at all.
> and only use Apple products.
I use only Apple products (desktop, laptop, phone, ipad), but I've never seriously considered the watch. Battery life less than a day? Come on...
I use only Apple products (desktop, laptop, phone, ipad), but I've never seriously considered the watch. Battery life less than a day? Come on...
The worst thing is their insistence on whatever swipe touch poke gesture garbage that permeates the whole WatchOS and WatchApps ecosystem.
Useless useless useless, and Apple is martyred and married to it. (can't enter a PIN without the touch screen, can't ask app developers to rewrite apps to be button-focused or button-primary, can't _ever_ introduce something that is less capable, or less pretty than their existing overcomplicated mess)
I use to love being able to skip to the next track while taking a shower from my pebble because it used these things called BuTtOnS, a long lost technology that allows you to reliable perform a limited set of actions while on the go and without looking.
Useless useless useless, and Apple is martyred and married to it. (can't enter a PIN without the touch screen, can't ask app developers to rewrite apps to be button-focused or button-primary, can't _ever_ introduce something that is less capable, or less pretty than their existing overcomplicated mess)
I use to love being able to skip to the next track while taking a shower from my pebble because it used these things called BuTtOnS, a long lost technology that allows you to reliable perform a limited set of actions while on the go and without looking.
I put the Apple Watch on the charger while I'm in the shower/getting dressed and it feels like the charge lasts indefinitely. It charges pretty fast.
The battery life is closer to two days, definitely not less than a day.
I'm sure I've seen heavy users stating it doesn't last them through the day.
But even 2 is ridiculous for a watch. It's not like a phone or another device that you use occasionally and can even use while it's charging. It's supposed to be there on your wrist.
But even 2 is ridiculous for a watch. It's not like a phone or another device that you use occasionally and can even use while it's charging. It's supposed to be there on your wrist.
I have a galaxy watch and it isn't bad IMO. For 200 bucks I got a large watch with 2 day battery life, payments, ECG and a ton more. And a sapphire crystal screen.
The apple watch looks great but it's double the price and only works with iOS. I don't think you can even pair it with android to get notifications which is my main reason to have a smartwatch (the fitness/ activity stuff I don't care about except GPS tracking for hikes)
The apple watch looks great but it's double the price and only works with iOS. I don't think you can even pair it with android to get notifications which is my main reason to have a smartwatch (the fitness/ activity stuff I don't care about except GPS tracking for hikes)
I was wondering the same thing, the Galaxy Watches (before and after Tizen) have always been solid for me, granted we don't really have Apple products and I get the ecosystem advantage. Samsung does seem to iterate really, really fast...or just not sell out of the prior model.
I think it works better if you don't have a Samsung phone.
I did quite a bit of research and went with Withings (even though I have the full Apple ecosystem - iPhone, iPad, Mac, HomePod, etc.), mostly because I wanted something that had long battery life (no daily recharging), looked like a real watch, and had reliable cardiac (ECG) tracking. I've had it for a year and happy with it.
I had not followed their recent products but now I look, I agree. One watch ordered, thanks for replying.
I wish Garmin made sleeker models, I don't like that they're all bulky and tailored to physical activities.
I like that Garmin seems dedicated to their devices, and I don't expect them to quit the market anytime soon which gives me confidence in their offerings, and their transflective display is IMO the way to go to reduce power consumption and making it readable in direct sunlight.
But the bulky look, that I feel like it would worn by someone in the military doesn't fit my style at all. I want something more casual.
EDIT: Ok it does seem like Garmin makes some sleeker models, but all of them seems to have an AMOLED display. I just want a sleek-looking smartwatch with multi-day/week long battery and an always-on display..
I like that Garmin seems dedicated to their devices, and I don't expect them to quit the market anytime soon which gives me confidence in their offerings, and their transflective display is IMO the way to go to reduce power consumption and making it readable in direct sunlight.
But the bulky look, that I feel like it would worn by someone in the military doesn't fit my style at all. I want something more casual.
EDIT: Ok it does seem like Garmin makes some sleeker models, but all of them seems to have an AMOLED display. I just want a sleek-looking smartwatch with multi-day/week long battery and an always-on display..
The forerunners are pretty casual.
Like they aren't tiny and they have buttons and a digital display, but they aren't really bulky, especially in comparison to some of the fashion watch trends we have seen not that long ago.
Like they aren't tiny and they have buttons and a digital display, but they aren't really bulky, especially in comparison to some of the fashion watch trends we have seen not that long ago.
My problem with Garmin is that the software is shit. The hardware is phenomenal, easily everything I could have wanted in a Pebble successor except that the design isn’t quite as fancy, but the software is absolute garbage compared to the Pebble I switched from.
> (cannot update it if you don't also have an iPhone)
Really? Can't the EU do anything about it?
Really? Can't the EU do anything about it?
It’s not even true that you can’t update an Apple Watch without an iPhone.
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204641
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204641
I popped into an Apple Store (Covent Garden) recently and directly asked (as I want the heart rate monitor Apple has)... and the assistant's response was that you need an iPhone to set up the watch initially, and that same iPhone must be used periodically for updates (which ruled out using one in-store to set it up, apparently the watch is paired to an iPhone?). I trusted what the Apple person told me.
Don't you need an iPhone to even set up the watch?
I think Google’s strategy of using watch makers for WearOS is dead, Fossil was last and biggest one. With Android Wear (WearOS 1), it was all electronics companies. With WearOS 2, it was watch makers. The watches were slow cause of using old processors. But they had normal and interesting designs.
Then WearOS 3 unified Android and Samsung’s Tizen. Also, Google makes own Pixel Watch. The new watches had better processors. I got the feeling that the watch makers had a hard time with new tech.
Then WearOS 3 unified Android and Samsung’s Tizen. Also, Google makes own Pixel Watch. The new watches had better processors. I got the feeling that the watch makers had a hard time with new tech.
>I got the feeling that the watch makers had a hard time with new tech.
I got the feeling that watch makers saw Google give Samsung a 6-month head start on WearOS 3 (as a bribe to kill Tizen) and said: yaaaa... we're not playing this game.
https://www.androidcentral.com/samsung-and-googles-secrecy-w...
I got the feeling that watch makers saw Google give Samsung a 6-month head start on WearOS 3 (as a bribe to kill Tizen) and said: yaaaa... we're not playing this game.
https://www.androidcentral.com/samsung-and-googles-secrecy-w...
It is going to be the same dead end as Android Things, when they gave up on Brillo and decided to push a mini-Android without NDK instead, naturally lost to Arduinos and ESP32 of the world.
WearOS might have the NDK, but still requires beefy CPUs, as it is almost a full Android for all practical purposes.
Whereas other smartwatch OSes are a mix of C, C++, pseudo JavaScript with SVG like Zepp OS, or Monkey C on Garmin's case.
Most watch makers would rather keep using something like C89 or Assembly, and feeble CPUs, with year long batteries.
Which come to think of it is was also how Pebble SDK was originally.
WearOS might have the NDK, but still requires beefy CPUs, as it is almost a full Android for all practical purposes.
Whereas other smartwatch OSes are a mix of C, C++, pseudo JavaScript with SVG like Zepp OS, or Monkey C on Garmin's case.
Most watch makers would rather keep using something like C89 or Assembly, and feeble CPUs, with year long batteries.
Which come to think of it is was also how Pebble SDK was originally.
With all the performance enhancements it touted, I really thought Fuschia would be the perfect home for WesrOS hardware, but it seems that'll never happen.
I recently bought a smartwatch. After a thorough search I ended up with two options: ticwatch pro 5 and pixel watch 2. I ended with the pixel, because of the size.
It's a shame, I really liked the ticwatch, but most watches are just too big for my wrist size. The pixel is not great software-side (it has a sort of wallet garden, without a pixel phone most features aren't available) but ergonomically it's perfect.
I don't know about fossil, but for me it seems like wear manufacturers haven't yet found what users want (except maybe for Apple, but that's probably because there is only one option)
It's a shame, I really liked the ticwatch, but most watches are just too big for my wrist size. The pixel is not great software-side (it has a sort of wallet garden, without a pixel phone most features aren't available) but ergonomically it's perfect.
I don't know about fossil, but for me it seems like wear manufacturers haven't yet found what users want (except maybe for Apple, but that's probably because there is only one option)
> The pixel is not great software-side (it has a sort of wallet garden, without a pixel phone most features aren't available) but ergonomically it's perfect.
Really? Most reviews I read seemed to indicate the Pixel Watches work fine with any recent Android, contrary to Samsung's watches that require Samsung Android phones for most features.
Really? Most reviews I read seemed to indicate the Pixel Watches work fine with any recent Android, contrary to Samsung's watches that require Samsung Android phones for most features.
Do not disturb doesn't sync, you can't see the watch battery from the phone, nor even get a notification when it finishes charging.
They are not most features, I should have used "some", my mistake, but for an android watch connected to an android phone...it's not pleasant.
Still, I have them by using third party apps (one of them open source where I even fixed a bug, the other from tasker) which is why I prefer android to other proprietary os watches.
They are not most features, I should have used "some", my mistake, but for an android watch connected to an android phone...it's not pleasant.
Still, I have them by using third party apps (one of them open source where I even fixed a bug, the other from tasker) which is why I prefer android to other proprietary os watches.
Without a Pixel Watch, Do Not Disturb doesn't sync. I think also swiping notifications away on the watch doesn't dismiss them on the phone.
Wouldn't call that "most features", but they're quite important to me.
Wouldn't call that "most features", but they're quite important to me.
I have a ticwatch pro 3, and I have mixed feelings about it.
I was pretty happy with it early on, but the software was always a little hit-and-mis. In particular the Google voice assistant stopped working a year or so ago, and when they finally rolled out the WearOS 3 update a few weeks ago, it just removed that feature (and several others) rather than fixing it.
I am a big fan of the dual-display with a super-low-power, sunlight-readable LCD and a richer OLED behind it.
I also really liked having a user-assignable hardware button, although mine stopped working after a couple of years, and apparently the WearOS 3.0 "upgrade" took away that feature too.
I was pretty happy with it early on, but the software was always a little hit-and-mis. In particular the Google voice assistant stopped working a year or so ago, and when they finally rolled out the WearOS 3 update a few weeks ago, it just removed that feature (and several others) rather than fixing it.
I am a big fan of the dual-display with a super-low-power, sunlight-readable LCD and a richer OLED behind it.
I also really liked having a user-assignable hardware button, although mine stopped working after a couple of years, and apparently the WearOS 3.0 "upgrade" took away that feature too.
I don't use the assistant (in fact I have it disabled) so I personally wouldn't mind. The user assignable button is wonderful (the pixel has two buttons: you can configure nothing of them) really sad they removed the feature too.
The dual display was my biggest lost. I need always on, and very few watches support it. With the pixel I get 2 days of battery with it, which I've become used to, but I would love to have that lcd display.
As for wear os: I had a moto sport with wear 1. It was basic but functional. Then it was upgraded to wear 2 and it improved a lot, I really liked it. But then the wear 3 was released (which that watch never got) and it's like google forgot everything else. Now I have wear 4, which I don't feel particularly happy about it, mainly because of the horrible material theme (seriously, everything is sized as if you used your full thumb, padding everywhere, wear 2 had almost double the information visible)
The dual display was my biggest lost. I need always on, and very few watches support it. With the pixel I get 2 days of battery with it, which I've become used to, but I would love to have that lcd display.
As for wear os: I had a moto sport with wear 1. It was basic but functional. Then it was upgraded to wear 2 and it improved a lot, I really liked it. But then the wear 3 was released (which that watch never got) and it's like google forgot everything else. Now I have wear 4, which I don't feel particularly happy about it, mainly because of the horrible material theme (seriously, everything is sized as if you used your full thumb, padding everywhere, wear 2 had almost double the information visible)
* correction: it's now on Wear OS 3.5 after the recent "upgrade". I'm not sure what it was on before that, but it might have been 3.0.
For me, and some of the other commenters here, it was more about the hybrid smartwatches that have 2-week battery lives. I never even tried their full-fledged smartwatches.
I own a Fossil Hybrid Smartwatch. It's a near device, scratches both my itches for a good looking watch and a vibrating motor.
That is until I got the Casio G-Shock GD350. I can't hear the alarm of most watches when I sleep, so I needed a watch that vibrates. I also swim so I need something that's decently waterproof. A G-Shock is practically indestructible.
That is until I got the Casio G-Shock GD350. I can't hear the alarm of most watches when I sleep, so I needed a watch that vibrates. I also swim so I need something that's decently waterproof. A G-Shock is practically indestructible.
I own a Fossil Hybrid 6 with e-ink and I'm very happy with it. The only features I needed were step counting, notifications, and the date. The customization of the screen is well thougt and allows a lot a of custom "watch faces" .
By disabling all the other unnecessary stuff (alexa, heartbeat, O2 sensor, meteo,..), I can last more than one month without charging it.
I will look into the G-Shock you're talking if (I hope not) my smartwatch comes to die.
I completely shattered my wrist some years back in an extreme circumstance. The GShock on that wrist was fine, and still works. I did have to replace the strap and a bent spring bar.
Well, I bought a "hybrid smartwatch" from them. Because I hate the plastic toy look of most other options, and as a bonus please wake me up when the apple watch battery lasts a week.
It sounded good in theory: normal watch with the background e-ink that will show your notifications and step count and heart rate and whatever. More of a fancy fitness band but that was good enough to start with. The battery even lasted 2 weeks.
Unfortunately the eink was almost unreadable unless directly in the sun. It had a light you could turn on by tapping the watch but it was weak. Need I mention the software to configure it was pretty limited? Especially in the part where you configured what notifications to get and what not?
But that's not the main problem. The main problem is either the glass front wasn't tight enough or it had humidity under it from the factory. So every time it got cold and humid it fogged up. That never happened to me with any other traditional watch, no matter how cheap it was.
And one day... in about 2 years and some change... it just died on me.
Waiting a few years and then checking hybrid watches again. Maybe this market niche will survive.
It sounded good in theory: normal watch with the background e-ink that will show your notifications and step count and heart rate and whatever. More of a fancy fitness band but that was good enough to start with. The battery even lasted 2 weeks.
Unfortunately the eink was almost unreadable unless directly in the sun. It had a light you could turn on by tapping the watch but it was weak. Need I mention the software to configure it was pretty limited? Especially in the part where you configured what notifications to get and what not?
But that's not the main problem. The main problem is either the glass front wasn't tight enough or it had humidity under it from the factory. So every time it got cold and humid it fogged up. That never happened to me with any other traditional watch, no matter how cheap it was.
And one day... in about 2 years and some change... it just died on me.
Waiting a few years and then checking hybrid watches again. Maybe this market niche will survive.
I don’t think the fossil style hybrid watch is going to survive, I think the hybrid watches we still have are ones which completely lack screens or only have extremely basic screens for showing health info and lack a user interface for checking texts etc.
I have a Withings ScanWatch and am quite happy with it; ticks the boxes (2 week battery life, notifications, a real analog movement, readable inside/outside, looks good). Also ECG which is the main reason I got it.
The Garmin ones are much better, FWIW. They don't use eink but some other fancy technology with good battery life and durability and waterproofing.
Yeah but they're still plastic sport thingies. Me no like. Me no need a smartwatch so me can afford to be picky about looks.
I might try a Withings once I get over the Fossil.
I might try a Withings once I get over the Fossil.
I bought a hybrid smartwatch from them 6 months ago, but I use it exclusively with Gadgetbrige.
Not that anything great came of it, but Fossil was doing the full-featured "smartwatch" thing long before anyone else:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_Wrist_PDA
My teenage self wanted one of these so badly, but my married self is glad I never had the opportunity to be seen wearing one.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_Wrist_PDA
My teenage self wanted one of these so badly, but my married self is glad I never had the opportunity to be seen wearing one.
I had one! It was... functional, but limited. The tiny stylus that slotted into the strap was a good indication of its problems.
You can always wear one now that you’re locked down anyway
It was actually pretty cool. The limitations were manageable and playing gameboy games on your watch was pretty fun in class
Does that have Dopewars?
Love it, back when tech served the user (poorly) instead of corporations first.
This is unfortunate but not unexpected. The whole non-Apple ecosystem is a cluster. I can tell you though I have been very happy with Withings.
I loved my Fitbits and they went south post-Google. I was not into charging a watch every day with my Samsung Galaxy watches. Then, enter Withings. I can actually go many days without running for a charger. Notifications are fine. I still get steps and pulse ox and EKG.
I loved my Fitbits and they went south post-Google. I was not into charging a watch every day with my Samsung Galaxy watches. Then, enter Withings. I can actually go many days without running for a charger. Notifications are fine. I still get steps and pulse ox and EKG.
I really liked (past tense) Withings as well. However, the mineral glass kept breaking. I paid one replacement, and got two others under warranty.
I didn't have this problem with older watches, and I don't have it now, with a Fossil.
I didn't have this problem with older watches, and I don't have it now, with a Fossil.
I have a Fossil Neutra Smartwatch. On the upside it is a decent watch, that I can wear in any context.
On the downside the display is really bad and won't actually display anything at this point anymore, the watch is working fine though. Their app and synchronization process is also horrible. Synchronization is only triggered when you open the app, this process then takes what feels like ages to update the information in the app, and here comes the best part: You don't even get any valuable insights in your workout. Just some basic bar charts and sums.
I feel that a Watch like that still is a product I'd like to buy, but the Fossil experience imo wasn't good enough overall.
On the downside the display is really bad and won't actually display anything at this point anymore, the watch is working fine though. Their app and synchronization process is also horrible. Synchronization is only triggered when you open the app, this process then takes what feels like ages to update the information in the app, and here comes the best part: You don't even get any valuable insights in your workout. Just some basic bar charts and sums.
I feel that a Watch like that still is a product I'd like to buy, but the Fossil experience imo wasn't good enough overall.
I have a fossil hybrid with e-ink screen. So good, only have to charge it once every two weeks
Same. I love my Hybrid HR. I really don't want a screen on my wrist, and I like traditional watches, so this was a great middle ground to get some smart functionality.
All other alternatives are too gaudy, bulky and techy. Guess I'll have to keep looking. ...Based on the discussion here, the Garmin Vivomove series looks interesting...
All other alternatives are too gaudy, bulky and techy. Guess I'll have to keep looking. ...Based on the discussion here, the Garmin Vivomove series looks interesting...
Shame. Many years ago I got a fossil (hybrid) watch(I believe the model was called Nate or something). Unfortunately it broke and it couldn't be fixed. At the time fossil had already given up on the model and the app that came with it. And it was the best watch I ever owned by a long shot. And overall fossil were doing it exactly right for me: inexpensive, great quality and unlike all other smart/semi-smart watches, they were good looking and comfortable. All other watches in this category are absolutely hideous.
Are there any decent hybrid smart watch alternatives? With that mean I mean having phone connectivity and alarms but still an analog watch.
My Fossil Commuter is analog. But can configure notifications from the phone, and configure for each app where the hands point when it vibrates.
Perfect for being able to have the phone on silent and just wear a regular watch. I don't want to read messages on my watch. I just want it to tell me when I'm getting a phone call because my phone is entirely silent.
The battery also lasts for a year like a regular watch.
My Fossil Commuter is analog. But can configure notifications from the phone, and configure for each app where the hands point when it vibrates.
Perfect for being able to have the phone on silent and just wear a regular watch. I don't want to read messages on my watch. I just want it to tell me when I'm getting a phone call because my phone is entirely silent.
The battery also lasts for a year like a regular watch.
Have a look at Withings. My HR Sport watch lasts just over a month on a single charge. I'm also satisfied with the application experience on Android.
I'm surprised to see not many mentions of Withings here. Perhaps it's more popular in Europe.
I'm surprised to see not many mentions of Withings here. Perhaps it's more popular in Europe.
I recently was looking at this for my partner. The best two options I've seen so far is the Withings ScanWatch (actually the ScanWatch 2 I think was recently released) and the Garmin Vivomove Trend. I don't have direct experience with them but from my research they seem decent. Of course they have limits compared to a full smartwatch.
I had a Withings for a couple years and ended up frustrated with it. The tiny screen meant that many notifications took so long to read I often just got my phone out instead. But the worst thing was the lack of a "find my phone" feature.
I switched to the Garmin Vivomove and have been very happy with it. It looks fantastic IMO, the transflective screen is big enough to be useful, and it has only the features I want. The only downsides are that the Garmin Android app is not as well designed as the Withings app and the battery life is only 4 days or so instead of a week, which feels like an awkward amount of time.
I switched to the Garmin Vivomove and have been very happy with it. It looks fantastic IMO, the transflective screen is big enough to be useful, and it has only the features I want. The only downsides are that the Garmin Android app is not as well designed as the Withings app and the battery life is only 4 days or so instead of a week, which feels like an awkward amount of time.
Citizen has tried. The first generation struggled with power, connectivity, and software. The second generation is getting better user reviews, and the power problems were apparently solved, but the UI (button based) is tricky.
https://www.citizenwatch.com/us/en/collection/smartwatches/
https://www.citizenwatch.com/us/en/collection/smartwatches/
We recently got Kronaby (owned by Festina). They look nice and the software is ok. We also looked at Sequent. Not sure about the 5-10 year future of these two, though
Oh nice, Kronaby looks pretty promising. No display, all analog. And it has a find my phone function which I have been missing with my Fossil.
Will have a closer look at them. Thanks for mentioning it!
Will have a closer look at them. Thanks for mentioning it!
Have you seen the Tissot connect? Latest version is pretty good
Can it control music playback?
Garmin Instinct Crossover?
I’m of the opinion that “wearables” don’t provide enough convenience over just pulling a smartphone out of your pocket to justify themselves. Wristwatches only overtook pocket watches because they got to the point that they were comparable in function.
The physics of reading off a screen is going to keep smartwatches in the fashion category unless there are some startrek tier breakthroughs.
The physics of reading off a screen is going to keep smartwatches in the fashion category unless there are some startrek tier breakthroughs.
The pebble (and some Garmin watches) is phenomenal at this because they have a non backlit AOD so you can always read the time like a normal watch. The main other bonus for most people right now is health tracking.
Why has every smartwatch manufacturer (Apple included) refused to just sell me a watch sized phone? These things have more processing power than a gaming desktop from ten years ago. Why can't they just ship a fully fledged mobile OS, with 5G hotspot, external display support, and just provide my entire mobile experience? Instead we're left with pointless $500 step counters.
The market has said they want big screens. They don’t even make small-sized smartphones any more. You must carry that skateboard around, like everyone else.
Apple does sell a watch with cellular and GPS and it can replace a phone (you can literally talk into it)
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Samsung sells watches with standalone cellular. You can get an eSIM for the watch and leave your phone at home. Seems their Gear S from 10 years ago was the first.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Gear_S
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Gear_S
Why doesn't Apple sell the Apple Watch Ultra?
Battery life??
How would most things work on such a small screen?
I think the Apple Watch will become increasingly standalone.
I think the Apple Watch will become increasingly standalone.
As a tangent, I'm looking for a FOSS watch. Last time I checked bangle.js met all my requirements but some feedback was the its not yet reliable. Has this improved? Also any other alternative that has GPS and pedometer?
Ex owner of a Pebble (which was fantastic). Have tested (for work) a variety of watches and health trackers, loved the Apple ones and the Fitbit watches, but ultimately the Withings ones were the ones that stuck. Battery life, minimalistic look and core functionalities are the best.
Also own a fossil (gift from wife recently) but whenever I can I always use my reliable and less power hungry Withings Scanwatch
Also own a fossil (gift from wife recently) but whenever I can I always use my reliable and less power hungry Withings Scanwatch
Another one to look at is Coros. Excellent much more reasonably priced alternative to Garmin. EInk. Works underwater. GPS. Maps. Notification. Been searching for something good for a while and so far this is one to watch⌚
I love my Fossil Hybrid smartwatch! This is terrible news for those of us who want a watch that has smart features, as opposed to a miniature wrist phone.
My wife and I loved our fossil wearos watches except one flaw they never fixed - the damn glue to hold charging rings and the back cover on are not human friendly and sweat eats it away. I never figured out why they didn't change it or use screws.
I’d really love a regular watch that just looks like a Rolex or whatever and has the nice measurements sent to my phone but no digital screen.
What are the chances of Fossil making the software open source? How cool would that be?
Are there any privacy friendly smartwatches around?
When the market isn't even profitable enough for regular smart watches, I feel like the privacy niche won't have many people competing for it.
Curious though if there are any
Curious though if there are any
There is PineTime
https://pine64.org/devices/pinetime/
https://pine64.org/devices/pinetime/
a fitbit is all i need in a watch
I had to replace my charge 5 several times within the last couple years, it breaks fairly regularly.
I used my apple watch for a couple of years but the pain of daily charging starts to drag.
I was the same and eventually went back to the Apple Watch because the alternatives I tried were nice as watches but came up short in the ‘smart’ department.
I’m not as bothered by the charging since it gets enough of a boost while I’m in the shower.
I’m not as bothered by the charging since it gets enough of a boost while I’m in the shower.
Do you not take it off at night?
I've never had a problem since I always take my watch off, so putting it on a side table or charging it on a side table is a non-issue.
But I think some people wear it for sleep info? And I've always been baffled at how/when they charge it.
I've never had a problem since I always take my watch off, so putting it on a side table or charging it on a side table is a non-issue.
But I think some people wear it for sleep info? And I've always been baffled at how/when they charge it.
Pretty much the only data I care about from my watch (that only it can gather) is my sleep, so I just stick it on the charger in the day, eg when having a meal, when showering, or an hour before bed, when I also don't have to worry about urgent notifications.
Niche situation: I charge it when I practice the violin, which takes about an hour daily, and that's more than enough to charge to 100%. To be honest, I'd need to take off the watch during practice anyway, even if the battery lasts a month.
A friend of mine has a charger in his car, and charges his watch during commute.
A friend of mine has a charger in his car, and charges his watch during commute.
Agree. I think if I had chargers everywhere it would be better.
I just charge mine while I shower, 20-30 min get's me back to 100%.
Sleep tracking is just after fitness tracking the most important thing for me.
I have a Garmin and I usually charge it once a week.
I have a Garmin and I usually charge it once a week.
Do you not daily charge your phone?
It's a hassle to keep multiple devices charged. If 80% of people have the mental bandwidth to keep their phone charged daily, I'd say less than 50% would be able to do the same for 2 devices.
Part of the reason people like tablets as a second device is that you can turn off the screen and it'll maintain a charge for several days. If it had to be charged as frequently as a phone, people would just stick to their phone.
Part of the reason people like tablets as a second device is that you can turn off the screen and it'll maintain a charge for several days. If it had to be charged as frequently as a phone, people would just stick to their phone.
You don't have to unfasten a phone to charge it.
Heh, just to weird you out, I'll share that I charge my Pixel 5a phone about once a week and my Garmin FR255 watch about once every two weeks. And that's while recording about 5-6 hours of GPS tracks per week on the watch.
I spend a lot of time in front of large screens, so my phone is mostly there in standby either to let someone call me or to do a quick check when away from a better computer.
If I'm going somewhere expecting a call while my phone is pocketed, I might look for call notifications on my wrist. But otherwise I'd rather just poll my phone infrequently. Since I'm not enslaved to notifications, I usually turn on the bluetooth link once weekly to allow the watch to sync health data and refresh its cache of GPS ephemera for quick location fixes.
I spend a lot of time in front of large screens, so my phone is mostly there in standby either to let someone call me or to do a quick check when away from a better computer.
If I'm going somewhere expecting a call while my phone is pocketed, I might look for call notifications on my wrist. But otherwise I'd rather just poll my phone infrequently. Since I'm not enslaved to notifications, I usually turn on the bluetooth link once weekly to allow the watch to sync health data and refresh its cache of GPS ephemera for quick location fixes.
When I commute regularly, the ~25m plugged into my car to and from work will keep my phone going all week. When I work from home, I'll be charging it every other day, or piecemeal on a wireless charger when I remember.
I love my mechanical watches because a few twists on the crown gets it moving and the automatic movement keeps it wound the rest of the day.
I love my mechanical watches because a few twists on the crown gets it moving and the automatic movement keeps it wound the rest of the day.
I do but the phone is much more useful and doesn't require a special charger. I might start using it again at some point.
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Like with tablets, only apple knows how to make a profit out of these.
And like with the iPad, Apple doesn't make a profit from selling hardware, but hooking you up on a fantasy of a digital life, they only ever tease technologically, but never really deliver. At some point, you will always find yourself held back by artificial and practical limitations (at least if you desire to actually use the hardware as advertised), with the false promise of yet another Apple gadget finally making you whole. They don't make profit from producing either tablets, or smart watches, but the sunken cost fallacy in their ultimately crippling ecosystem.
If Apple made a profit by selling standalone devices, I could respect this argument. But especially with the iPad and its fully capable processing power to replace a general purpose computing device, it's easy to see how their business "ingenuity" is set up.
As someone, who fell for it twice, I think frustration and sadness about yet another competitor dropping out is absolutely warranted and relatable.
If Apple made a profit by selling standalone devices, I could respect this argument. But especially with the iPad and its fully capable processing power to replace a general purpose computing device, it's easy to see how their business "ingenuity" is set up.
As someone, who fell for it twice, I think frustration and sadness about yet another competitor dropping out is absolutely warranted and relatable.
> And like with the iPad, Apple doesn't make a profit from selling hardware…
Incorrect, Apple makes money selling devices (except potentially Apple Vision, in the short term), which have an average gross margin of ~35%. Average gross margin across all products is ~45%.
Incorrect, Apple makes money selling devices (except potentially Apple Vision, in the short term), which have an average gross margin of ~35%. Average gross margin across all products is ~45%.
You thought I meant to say Apple literally sells just fantasies? Or did you stop reading in the middle of the first sentence?
You wrote, "If Apple made a profit by selling standalone devices, I could respect this argument", so I thought you'd find it useful to know that they do.
They don't sell standalone devices. They are all heavily dependent from and integrated into the Apple ecosystem. Try using an Apple Watch without an iPhone. Ever tried to share files between a non Apple device and your iPad?
I am well aware they make and sell hardware. But it's all locked down to some extent.
I am well aware they make and sell hardware. But it's all locked down to some extent.
For sure — other than the Mac, Apple is no longer a general-purpose computer company. I'm content with that, but I'm glad there are choices for people who aren't.
There are plenty of Android tablets in Europe, not everyone has a wage to cope with Apple prices.
The comment you responded to is about profit, not market penetration.
You can get a lot of market penetration by having a series of companies spin up, ultimately fail to become profitable, and collapse. Especially with a market that's incredibly price conscious.
You can get a lot of market penetration by having a series of companies spin up, ultimately fail to become profitable, and collapse. Especially with a market that's incredibly price conscious.
To have a profit in a specific country there have to be enough people with iDevices to start with.
Like US is basically Apple takes it all, the rest of the world there are country where only rich kids get iDevices, those country apps companies care about the whole population.
Like US is basically Apple takes it all, the rest of the world there are country where only rich kids get iDevices, those country apps companies care about the whole population.
> To have a profit in a specific country there have to be enough people with iDevices to start with.
Sure, it's necessary, but it isn't sufficient.
Sure, it's necessary, but it isn't sufficient.
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nox101(1)
Previously, I got a Samsung and it was a buggy piece of junk. The Garmin has been extremely reliable, getting regularly doused underwater in saltwater when crashing while windsurfing, monitors heart rate, and can be hooked up to a heart rate monitor. And I charge it maybe once a week.
I looked into Apple Watches and I think Fossil too but they didn't seem to fit the bill. Apple has terrible watch battery life. I was able to put my Garmin in low power mode and only use the GPS when recording a few windsurf sessions, and it lasted 2 weeks like that without charging while in Europe.