Bill Nye collapses during speech at USC(latimesblogs.latimes.com)
latimesblogs.latimes.com
Bill Nye collapses during speech at USC
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/11/bill-nye-the-science-guy-usc.html
40 comments
As someone who was there (in the 3rd balcony) it was seriously shocking. As dumb as it sounds, I think some people thought it was part of his act, although when he collapsed the second time, it still took about 15 seconds for someone to come to his aid.
None of the 20+ staff at the auditorium came to help immediately either, which was even more shocking, since I hope that they would have some idea of what to do in a situation like that.
Altogether, it was a very scary, confusing situation. I'm just glad he's alright.
None of the 20+ staff at the auditorium came to help immediately either, which was even more shocking, since I hope that they would have some idea of what to do in a situation like that.
Altogether, it was a very scary, confusing situation. I'm just glad he's alright.
To clarify (and I can't believe this is what prompted me to create an account, but there you go): The first time he fainted, everyone just thought it was part of the speech. The second time, staff immediately came to his aid. This isn't some crisis with my generation or anything. It was just confusion.
Your generation == My generation
Perhaps it looked different from my vantage point, but the first person to rush to help him when he fainted the second time was not a staff member of the auditorium, it was a Program Board representative (read: one of the students who organized the event) seated in one of the first few rows. I did not see one of the red shirt Bovard employees until after that student acted.
I didn't intend to imply that there's a problem with our generation (as others have).
Perhaps it looked different from my vantage point, but the first person to rush to help him when he fainted the second time was not a staff member of the auditorium, it was a Program Board representative (read: one of the students who organized the event) seated in one of the first few rows. I did not see one of the red shirt Bovard employees until after that student acted.
I didn't intend to imply that there's a problem with our generation (as others have).
> I didn't intend to imply that there's a problem with our generation (as others have).
And I do thank you for that.
I think what happened was a rapid delineation of responsibility: The red shirted Bovard employees were ushers, and so their job was to ensure that the audience didn't become (for gross lack of a better word due to little sleep on my part) hostile. The program board member's job was to go to Bill Nye, whilst the tech staff backstage went to get chairs, water, food, and the like. Meanwhile the people in the booth were calling DPS (the on campus police force), and 911.
The thing about everyone working that event is that they are all on headset. They were all no doubt following on instructions from their superiors on what was decided to be the best course of action. Whilst it may not have been the most PR friendly response, I can't help but think that having a large swarm of staff all run to Mr. Nye would be nearly as helpful as what (from the best I can tell, both from my experience as a member of the staff (I didn't work the event), and from what I heard from people who did work the event, and audience members as well) actually occurred.
Honestly, I'm having a hard time figuring out why this matters to me so much. On the one hand, I know these people, I work with them regularly, and I can't possibly fathom that they just stood there and did nothing. And indeed everything I've heard from trusted sources has been the exact opposite.
On the other hand, I'm annoyed that this is receiving as much attention as it is, as I don't think Mr. Nye wanted it that way (again, from what I've heard of him after the event), and I think trying to tie this incident to some sort of great failing of our generation is—frankly—ridiculous.
Perhaps the most important thing I'd like to illuminate in this comment would be that there is a far greater number of staff members working any event than the ones that you see, and just because you don't see anyone doing anything doesn't mean that they aren't. Though, yeah, I can imagine it looked bad.
And I do thank you for that.
I think what happened was a rapid delineation of responsibility: The red shirted Bovard employees were ushers, and so their job was to ensure that the audience didn't become (for gross lack of a better word due to little sleep on my part) hostile. The program board member's job was to go to Bill Nye, whilst the tech staff backstage went to get chairs, water, food, and the like. Meanwhile the people in the booth were calling DPS (the on campus police force), and 911.
The thing about everyone working that event is that they are all on headset. They were all no doubt following on instructions from their superiors on what was decided to be the best course of action. Whilst it may not have been the most PR friendly response, I can't help but think that having a large swarm of staff all run to Mr. Nye would be nearly as helpful as what (from the best I can tell, both from my experience as a member of the staff (I didn't work the event), and from what I heard from people who did work the event, and audience members as well) actually occurred.
Honestly, I'm having a hard time figuring out why this matters to me so much. On the one hand, I know these people, I work with them regularly, and I can't possibly fathom that they just stood there and did nothing. And indeed everything I've heard from trusted sources has been the exact opposite.
On the other hand, I'm annoyed that this is receiving as much attention as it is, as I don't think Mr. Nye wanted it that way (again, from what I've heard of him after the event), and I think trying to tie this incident to some sort of great failing of our generation is—frankly—ridiculous.
Perhaps the most important thing I'd like to illuminate in this comment would be that there is a far greater number of staff members working any event than the ones that you see, and just because you don't see anyone doing anything doesn't mean that they aren't. Though, yeah, I can imagine it looked bad.
the psychological concept behind what you're describing is called "diffusion of responsibility"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility
apartment buildings have burned down because nobody called the fire department, assuming someone else would do it the entire time.
when i was on a recent trip talking with a tour guide, the guide told me that they limit each group to around fifty people not because they can't handle it, but because they actually make less in tips in larger groups. the same applies here -- nobody tips because everyone assumes that the others will tip.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility
apartment buildings have burned down because nobody called the fire department, assuming someone else would do it the entire time.
when i was on a recent trip talking with a tour guide, the guide told me that they limit each group to around fifty people not because they can't handle it, but because they actually make less in tips in larger groups. the same applies here -- nobody tips because everyone assumes that the others will tip.
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Superfreakonmics[2] talks about this in chapter 3 about the Kitty Genovese[1] murder when no one went to her aid, in effect everyone thinking that someone else would go. They do expand on it further and blow apart some of the urban myths surrounding all the events (I can't remember the specifics now unfortunately). Definitely worth reading.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese [2] http://freakonomicsbook.com/superfreakonomics/chapter-excerp...
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese [2] http://freakonomicsbook.com/superfreakonomics/chapter-excerp...
That's interesting, because Cialdini's classic Influence covers this same ground (http://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Busine...). Has anyone read both books? I'm curious as to whether Superfreakonomics added anything over Cialdini's treatment.
Interestingly, while the bystander effect is a real thing -- the Kitty Genovese story doesn't really support it. As wikipedia points out in its understated way, the story that prompted all this research has "been criticized as inaccurate." There were actually very few witnesses who could have seen her murder and it's entirely possible that at least one of them did call the police.
From memory I think there were a number of calls, but the police didn't prioritise them highly enough. I think in the end it was a neighbour who ID'ed the murderer.
You're exactly right. However, I imagine a lot of people in the crowd thought it might be part of the speech.
One of my earlier essays was about the bystander effect:
http://www.petermichaud.com/essays/the-bomb-and-the-bystande...
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This happened to my dad. TIA was suspected but there was no lasting damage nor other stroke symptoms. It was ruled exhaustion. My dad regularly works 70-80 hour weeks and does at least one all-nighter a month. What I learned is that this is not uncommon in his field (medicine.) Four of his colleagues have had the same experience, they just don't let anyone know and really try to hide it out of personal and professional pride.
I was still trying to be a startup hacker in my 30s, working all nighters, living on pizza and coffee. After one all nighter I could not remember the combination to my lock at the gym (I often showered at the gym by work instead of going home) nor could I remember my PIN number at the ATM. My hands were shaking it felt like my heart was going to explode . I checked into the ER and they said I was fine but that I was experiencing acute exhaustion and dehydration.
Since then I've tried to tone things down a bit, but unfortunately most tech companies tend towards insane work hours, no matter how much they claim to follow a "normal" work week. I recently left a job because it was expected to work about 70 hours a week and I knew I'd end up falling apart like my dad (or Bill Nye) if I kept it up.
When I lives in SF, it was not uncommon for my fellow engineers to binge drink on weekends (or wednesdays), have super unhealthy foodie-fests like "bacon parties" or try to outdo each other with the craziest 4-espresso-shot coffee concoction. I've seen too many halfways-healthy looking programmers turn into high-blood-pressure overweight blobs over the course of 18 months, and I fear for their long term health. Nobody wants to admit it, but the culture of stress and overwork at startups (and other fields) has real physical effects. Maybe not today, but somewhere down the road.
I was still trying to be a startup hacker in my 30s, working all nighters, living on pizza and coffee. After one all nighter I could not remember the combination to my lock at the gym (I often showered at the gym by work instead of going home) nor could I remember my PIN number at the ATM. My hands were shaking it felt like my heart was going to explode . I checked into the ER and they said I was fine but that I was experiencing acute exhaustion and dehydration.
Since then I've tried to tone things down a bit, but unfortunately most tech companies tend towards insane work hours, no matter how much they claim to follow a "normal" work week. I recently left a job because it was expected to work about 70 hours a week and I knew I'd end up falling apart like my dad (or Bill Nye) if I kept it up.
When I lives in SF, it was not uncommon for my fellow engineers to binge drink on weekends (or wednesdays), have super unhealthy foodie-fests like "bacon parties" or try to outdo each other with the craziest 4-espresso-shot coffee concoction. I've seen too many halfways-healthy looking programmers turn into high-blood-pressure overweight blobs over the course of 18 months, and I fear for their long term health. Nobody wants to admit it, but the culture of stress and overwork at startups (and other fields) has real physical effects. Maybe not today, but somewhere down the road.
A few weeks ago I spent a few hours volunteering next to him at the Planetary Society's booth at the National Science & Engineering Fair. He's doing a great service for the Society by drawing big crowds. I must say, though, that it looked absolutely exhausting. Hours of signing autographs and small talk with eager fans. He went well past his allotted time and he was likely starving by the end.
People underestimate dehydration. The symptoms are extremely subtle. Combined with any other form of physical exhaustion, dehydration can trigger extreme responses in the body. The US military has had to deal with 20 year olds collapsing from what is sometimes called heat stroke, but heat stroke often has a large degree of dehydration attached to it.
If you get older and start developing the slightest bit of elevated glucose and/or glucose resistance (which can start years prior to developing diabetes) then even mild dehydration can lead to the body mishandling blood sugar levels.
If you get older and start developing the slightest bit of elevated glucose and/or glucose resistance (which can start years prior to developing diabetes) then even mild dehydration can lead to the body mishandling blood sugar levels.
Shit, I hope he's okay; he's one of the best faces this country has for the popularization of science.
I just saw him recently at a talk on exoplanet discovery. He was there as one of the introductory speakers in his role as Executive Director of the Planetary Society.
I just saw him recently at a talk on exoplanet discovery. He was there as one of the introductory speakers in his role as Executive Director of the Planetary Society.
How should one help someone who unexpectedly collapses? I have no idea what I would do. I can only envision myself going up and dumbly asking "Are you OK?" which I am not sure is the best way to help.
How should one help someone who unexpectedly collapses?
Exactly what you said. Walk up to the person and loudly ask "Are you OK?". If you get a response, then you can ask further questions and provide help. If you get no response, your next move is to use first aid skills and call emergency services. If you are trained in CPR, proceed. Your loud voice might also catch the attention of someone with the appropriate training, or someone who can call emergency services while you administer CPR.
... But this wasn't someone collapsing at a mall, on the street or somewhere else where they might not be noticed. This was someone collapsing on stage. Standing up, rushing the stage and attempting to help could just as easily have caused a riot of well meaning folks and could have gotten in the way of staff who should be trained to deal with this sort of circumstance. I'm not accosting staff for not being prepared, I'm just defending those in the audience who didn't rush to help. As a child, I did a lot of community theater (the sort where you pay $5 to participate and your mother may need to sew your costume), and there was always someone with the appropriate training to handle a circumstance like this (usually our lone director, or a member of tech). Thankfully, we never had an incident, but this makes me wonder ... would they have responded within 15 seconds or waited to see if I tripped and could ad-lib my way back into character? I really don't know.
Exactly what you said. Walk up to the person and loudly ask "Are you OK?". If you get a response, then you can ask further questions and provide help. If you get no response, your next move is to use first aid skills and call emergency services. If you are trained in CPR, proceed. Your loud voice might also catch the attention of someone with the appropriate training, or someone who can call emergency services while you administer CPR.
... But this wasn't someone collapsing at a mall, on the street or somewhere else where they might not be noticed. This was someone collapsing on stage. Standing up, rushing the stage and attempting to help could just as easily have caused a riot of well meaning folks and could have gotten in the way of staff who should be trained to deal with this sort of circumstance. I'm not accosting staff for not being prepared, I'm just defending those in the audience who didn't rush to help. As a child, I did a lot of community theater (the sort where you pay $5 to participate and your mother may need to sew your costume), and there was always someone with the appropriate training to handle a circumstance like this (usually our lone director, or a member of tech). Thankfully, we never had an incident, but this makes me wonder ... would they have responded within 15 seconds or waited to see if I tripped and could ad-lib my way back into character? I really don't know.
Why do you not have any idea what to do? It's well within your power to get trained. First aid and CPR classes are cheap and don't take much time (first aid certs last 3 years, CPR certs 1 year). Even if you let your certification lapse you'll still have a better idea of how to recognize and respond to potentially life threatening situations.
I'll spoil some of the training though. Unconsciousness should always be treated as a life threatening condition. If someone goes unconscious you should walk up to their body (assuming its safe to do so), tap them lightly (the shoulder is a good place) and ask if they are OK. Don't move them or otherwise touch them but if they still appear to be unconscious call 911. Anyone can do that, and sometimes it can save lives.
I'll spoil some of the training though. Unconsciousness should always be treated as a life threatening condition. If someone goes unconscious you should walk up to their body (assuming its safe to do so), tap them lightly (the shoulder is a good place) and ask if they are OK. Don't move them or otherwise touch them but if they still appear to be unconscious call 911. Anyone can do that, and sometimes it can save lives.
What is this world coming to? How can a notoriously animated prankster dramatically collapse during a presentation about gravity and go _5 whole seconds_ before standing back up? Why wasn't every student racing toward the stage with their defibrillator paddles already charged?
Kids these days with their twitters and their facebooks. Why back in my day, we _never_ socialized. Not under any circumstances! As was made terribly clear today, socializing just takes your attention away from the people around you who could collapse at any moment!
Everybody is terrible and deficient except me!
Kids these days with their twitters and their facebooks. Why back in my day, we _never_ socialized. Not under any circumstances! As was made terribly clear today, socializing just takes your attention away from the people around you who could collapse at any moment!
Everybody is terrible and deficient except me!
I'm not sure if this is the right time/place for it, but I've always wanted to trot out this factoid:
Archie Comics 'parodied' Bill Nye in one of their comics as "Phil MacPherson, The Science Person".
Archie Comics 'parodied' Bill Nye in one of their comics as "Phil MacPherson, The Science Person".
Everyone should read the comments on this article. There's posts from other in attendance that gives a different take on the events. It's very easy in events like this for people to get their details mixed up.
On the side, I hope he's well. "The earth is tilted tilted tilted" has been burned into my head so well. I will never forget what causes the seasons.
On the side, I hope he's well. "The earth is tilted tilted tilted" has been burned into my head so well. I will never forget what causes the seasons.
During my rescue diver training there was a fair amount of time spent on crowd control during an emergency. For instance an incident on a boat, on shore or in the water. How do you handle spectators? Who is responsible for what? On a boat, for example, you might specifically ask one or two people to keep eyes on a distressed swimmer. When diving, there is a hierarchy based on experience and when diving you know the experience level of your fellow divers. More or less, everyone knows their roles.
In a situation like this someone needs to step up and assist. Contrast this to Patraeus fainting, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtZSkGvARCg, during testimony to congress. One of his aides was assisting him within 8 seconds. I imagine his aides are military and consequently trained responders. Nevertheless, assisting could be as simple as getting someone a chair and/or keeping them from smashing their head on the floor. The most important thing is to specifically assign someone the role of calling 911.
In a situation like this someone needs to step up and assist. Contrast this to Patraeus fainting, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtZSkGvARCg, during testimony to congress. One of his aides was assisting him within 8 seconds. I imagine his aides are military and consequently trained responders. Nevertheless, assisting could be as simple as getting someone a chair and/or keeping them from smashing their head on the floor. The most important thing is to specifically assign someone the role of calling 911.
Why are there so many posts about the bystander effect instead of asking WTF may be wrong with Bill Nye's health?!
I've even seen this happen to people in good shape. The combination of no sleep, low blood sugar, heat, stress from speaking, and then standing for a period of time can all add up. Especially if you "lock" you legs while standing, which can lower the blood pressure to the upper body (head).
Still, it is wise to visit a doctor ASAP to have your ticker checked.
I hope Bill is okay - what an awesome individual!
Still, it is wise to visit a doctor ASAP to have your ticker checked.
I hope Bill is okay - what an awesome individual!
"Nobody went to his aid at the very beginning when he first collapsed -- that just perplexed me beyond reason," USC senior Alastair Fairbanks said. "Instead, I saw students texting and updating their Twitter statuses. It was just all a very bizarre evening."
I fear for the future.
I fear for the future.
It sounds horrid, but it's not entirely a new phenomenon. In First Aid training, I was taught never to yell "someone call an ambulance" when assisting a victim because people will just stand there like lemons looking at you. Instead, you are supposed to pick someone at random in the crowd, look them in the eye and yell "you, there, tall guy in the red shirt - call an ambulance" - and the person will jump right to it, or find someone who can.
That said, I agree that sitting around doing nothing but also recording the event does raise the unpleasantness of it.
That said, I agree that sitting around doing nothing but also recording the event does raise the unpleasantness of it.
I think you're jumping to conclusions. More likely people thought it was part of an act. Here's a comment from that page to support my conjecture:
I was there. Regarding the point of nobody helping him at first, it wasn't immediately clear that it wasn't part of the act.
And here's another one:
The reason as to why nobody went up to help him the first time is because everyone thought it was part of his act. Nobody had any idea that he had fainted. Everyone was just dumbfounded by what had happened and thought it was an odd twist to his show.
The second time around, when people did realize what was going on, those who planned the event rushed to the stage to help him. Food was brought backstage and his manager, agent, and local emergency medical services were immediately contacted.
This nonsense about nobody doing anything is absurd. And the commentary by others on social networking sites accusing staff and event planners of not acting is absolutely baseless. Staff were backstage to monitor and assist in his recuperation from the second he stepped behind the curtains.
Just clarifying.
I was there. Regarding the point of nobody helping him at first, it wasn't immediately clear that it wasn't part of the act.
And here's another one:
The reason as to why nobody went up to help him the first time is because everyone thought it was part of his act. Nobody had any idea that he had fainted. Everyone was just dumbfounded by what had happened and thought it was an odd twist to his show.
The second time around, when people did realize what was going on, those who planned the event rushed to the stage to help him. Food was brought backstage and his manager, agent, and local emergency medical services were immediately contacted.
This nonsense about nobody doing anything is absurd. And the commentary by others on social networking sites accusing staff and event planners of not acting is absolutely baseless. Staff were backstage to monitor and assist in his recuperation from the second he stepped behind the curtains.
Just clarifying.
As icegreentea said above, many comments from audience members present things somewhat differently. For example:
"When he first collapsed he was talking about gravity, and the audience believed it was part of his act. The instant he began wavering and fainted a second time he was instantly aided and given a chair and a water bottle."
"When he first collapsed he was talking about gravity, and the audience believed it was part of his act. The instant he began wavering and fainted a second time he was instantly aided and given a chair and a water bottle."
Most likely it's because he was only out for a few seconds. People fall down all the time, so that's a few seconds of waiting just to see if something is actually wrong or if it's just an odd occurrence. Add a couple more seconds to decide the appropriate course of action, and by the time you're going to respond, Nye is back on his feet acting like everything is fine.
More disturbing to me is that nobody realized during the speech that he was obviously having a stroke.
More disturbing to me is that nobody realized during the speech that he was obviously having a stroke.
Indeed, the whole description was very unnerving. It appears the fellow was having a stroke and nobody was inclined to do anything about it. Scary.
This is actually a well known phenomenon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect). It's why, in a crisis, you should always single people out to do tasks instead of saying "someone do this". Otherwise everyone will just assume that someone else will do it.
No. An entertaining was doing something people assumed was part of his act. Their are also conflicting reports, both here and in the actual comments of the article.
Suffice it to say, it's still too early to know what was going on. But it wasn't just some guy having a stroke and no one doing anything.
Suffice it to say, it's still too early to know what was going on. But it wasn't just some guy having a stroke and no one doing anything.
When we studying group psychology the first thing my professor said was, "You're about to loose a bit of confidence in humanity" basically what i took away from it, if i'm in a situation where I need help, and there's a group of people around you should "single" a person out.
I hope he's ok.
I had lunch with him at a conference. Nice guy -- very driven and focused.
I had lunch with him at a conference. Nice guy -- very driven and focused.
Nye's current status: "feeling much better". I had feared a stroke, but he's saying that he had just been pushing himself too hard. Whew.
Dug up a story here: http://content.usatoday.com/communities/entertainment/post/2...
Dug up a story here: http://content.usatoday.com/communities/entertainment/post/2...
That still sounds way too much like a stroke for me to fully believe it wasn't. Maybe it's because I'm a fan of college football, but I don't believe injury reports.
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Why didn't she? Perhaps she was in the middle of a row. But often the reason that no one helps is that everyone is expecting someone else to do it -- someone more official or someone better located.
If a person needs help, don't look around for who else is moving. Go help.
--
A story, while we're on the subject: I'm eating at this sushi place with a girl when I hear a chair hit the floor. I look up, and there's this big fellow a few tables over who appears to be choking. He's with a date, but it's clear she's shocked and doesn't know what to do. As I'm sliding out of the booth to get to my feet, a guy blows past me. He must have noticed the poor fellow choking sooner, because he came flying from the bar at the other side of the restaurant. He just seemed to appear out of nowhere.
He gives the big fellow the Heimlich Maneuver. The guy starts coughing after two or three hard thrusts. The rescuer makes sure the guy is OK, then disappears out the front door and into the night.
The total time from him blowing past me to breezing out the front door was no more than 30 seconds. It was a terribly efficient rescue.
I've always imagined he wanted out of there quickly and anonymously because of liability concerns.