Ask HN: Should I stay at my job with lots of freedom or leave for a promotion?
8 comments
Always a tough choice. And only one you can make.
Here's my thoughts:
1) People/teammates make all the difference in the world. You love working with your current team; you've enjoyed working with the Other Company's (OC) IT Director before. But will you like the OC's team you'll be working with? Will you be seen by them as capable, or as a buddy being brought in to shove "architecture" down their throats?
2) Vacation. This is a negotiation. Tell them you have three weeks now (and have proof) and tell them you want the match. That shouldn't be too difficult, but I've actually seen companies balk and walk away over this (Even as far as telling senior people with X weeks vacation they'll be treated like entry-level and start with none for the first six months, etc). Sure sign of bureaucracy, and being tied to processes.
3) WFH. Kind of unclear. I'm assuming you can WFH pretty regularly now, and with OC you'll lose a lot of that. Again, negotiate. If most of OC team is in another city, what difference does it make if you're in the office, or at home on the corporate VPN--like they are.
4) Commute. WFH could make a lot of difference here too. But adding 15 minutes each way is 30 minutes a day, 2.5 hours a week, 10 hours a month, 120 a year. What could you do with that spare time if you didn't have the commute? Not to mention costs in gas, mileage on tires and car, etc.
5) Boredom. You're bored in your current job, which is never a good thing. But are you relevant? Meaning, are you doing useful things, listened to, etc? If you jump over to OC, will you still be relevant? Or will remote team ignore you and do their own things? Irrelevance and boredom are never good apart, and torture together.
Here's my thoughts:
1) People/teammates make all the difference in the world. You love working with your current team; you've enjoyed working with the Other Company's (OC) IT Director before. But will you like the OC's team you'll be working with? Will you be seen by them as capable, or as a buddy being brought in to shove "architecture" down their throats?
2) Vacation. This is a negotiation. Tell them you have three weeks now (and have proof) and tell them you want the match. That shouldn't be too difficult, but I've actually seen companies balk and walk away over this (Even as far as telling senior people with X weeks vacation they'll be treated like entry-level and start with none for the first six months, etc). Sure sign of bureaucracy, and being tied to processes.
3) WFH. Kind of unclear. I'm assuming you can WFH pretty regularly now, and with OC you'll lose a lot of that. Again, negotiate. If most of OC team is in another city, what difference does it make if you're in the office, or at home on the corporate VPN--like they are.
4) Commute. WFH could make a lot of difference here too. But adding 15 minutes each way is 30 minutes a day, 2.5 hours a week, 10 hours a month, 120 a year. What could you do with that spare time if you didn't have the commute? Not to mention costs in gas, mileage on tires and car, etc.
5) Boredom. You're bored in your current job, which is never a good thing. But are you relevant? Meaning, are you doing useful things, listened to, etc? If you jump over to OC, will you still be relevant? Or will remote team ignore you and do their own things? Irrelevance and boredom are never good apart, and torture together.
Thanks for the feedback!
1) While I can't be sure, I believe that I would be able to be seen as capable. I consider myself a strong mobile developer, and I have many years of shipping some very popular apps. It is my understanding that the remote mobile team is somewhat more on the junior side. If I made changes to the team (introduce formal code review, spin up build servers and nightly/CI builds, etc) it would be done gradually and with their input.
2) This is basically what I was thinking. If they don't budge on vacation, or are unwilling to even consider it, it isn't a good sign.
3) Their rationale has been that while yes, the mobile team is in another city, part of my role in this position is somewhat of a liaison between the mobile team and the rest of the IT in my current city. As new features are requested of the app that have service dependencies, it would require me to interface with the team in my city. Still though, IMO, this doesn't require 5 days a week face to face. I've never had problems doing this in my current role. I honestly just think this comes down to the company here not being used to people regularly WFH. When I first joined my current company, it wasn't an option at all, but it was added a year after I joined.
4) Commute does worry me some. Although, I know many people with MUCH longer commutes. I think that ~40 minute commute is on the max of what I would consider bearable. This commute falls under that. Although, another consideration is that this job is further away from my child's daycare. So, on certain days, my effective commute may be longer still.
5) I feel like I'm listened to and that I am relevant. At most places I have worked, I feel like I have the respect of my peers and management. I work very hard. But in the past 2 years, I have spun up 2 completely new, relatively large apps for my current company. Once they are released, the development cycle seems to slow a lot. The number of new features that need to be developed go way down. I'm in one of those maintenance modes now and can lead to me being bored.
1) While I can't be sure, I believe that I would be able to be seen as capable. I consider myself a strong mobile developer, and I have many years of shipping some very popular apps. It is my understanding that the remote mobile team is somewhat more on the junior side. If I made changes to the team (introduce formal code review, spin up build servers and nightly/CI builds, etc) it would be done gradually and with their input.
2) This is basically what I was thinking. If they don't budge on vacation, or are unwilling to even consider it, it isn't a good sign.
3) Their rationale has been that while yes, the mobile team is in another city, part of my role in this position is somewhat of a liaison between the mobile team and the rest of the IT in my current city. As new features are requested of the app that have service dependencies, it would require me to interface with the team in my city. Still though, IMO, this doesn't require 5 days a week face to face. I've never had problems doing this in my current role. I honestly just think this comes down to the company here not being used to people regularly WFH. When I first joined my current company, it wasn't an option at all, but it was added a year after I joined.
4) Commute does worry me some. Although, I know many people with MUCH longer commutes. I think that ~40 minute commute is on the max of what I would consider bearable. This commute falls under that. Although, another consideration is that this job is further away from my child's daycare. So, on certain days, my effective commute may be longer still.
5) I feel like I'm listened to and that I am relevant. At most places I have worked, I feel like I have the respect of my peers and management. I work very hard. But in the past 2 years, I have spun up 2 completely new, relatively large apps for my current company. Once they are released, the development cycle seems to slow a lot. The number of new features that need to be developed go way down. I'm in one of those maintenance modes now and can lead to me being bored.
I also fear that my current liberal WFH policy is becoming a form of golden handcuffs.
It is something that isn't offered by as many companies around here, and I've started to grow very used to it.
It is something that isn't offered by as many companies around here, and I've started to grow very used to it.
It seems like you have a pretty good gig now! Don't let boredom get the best of you, you can always request more / different work, take on new challenges, etc. It could be exactly the same 6 months down the road on your new job.
Also, it seems like the offering just really isn't good enough to jump ship, otherwise you wouldn't be here asking.
Instead, simply ask yourself what WOULD motivate you to take the new job?
A 50% salary increase? More time off? Leading a better team?
Decide on what actually would motivate you, and then go back to the hiring manager at the new company and let them know.
If they meet your wishes, awesome! Then you are excited and motivated to start a new job.
Also, it seems like the offering just really isn't good enough to jump ship, otherwise you wouldn't be here asking.
Instead, simply ask yourself what WOULD motivate you to take the new job?
A 50% salary increase? More time off? Leading a better team?
Decide on what actually would motivate you, and then go back to the hiring manager at the new company and let them know.
If they meet your wishes, awesome! Then you are excited and motivated to start a new job.
Were you dissatisfied enough that you were actively looking, or did the new company contact you? Would you be thinking of leaving if the new offer hadn't materialized?
> I am, however, bored at my current position. I feel like I have had myself promoted into a position that I enjoy much less than I did senior developer. Most of my time now is wrapped up in resolving blockers for others, grooming backlogs, running sprint planning, etc. It could be a couple years before the possibility of promotion for me.
And would you enjoy the position that you'd eventually be promoted to more, or less, than your currently boring position?
> I am, however, bored at my current position. I feel like I have had myself promoted into a position that I enjoy much less than I did senior developer. Most of my time now is wrapped up in resolving blockers for others, grooming backlogs, running sprint planning, etc. It could be a couple years before the possibility of promotion for me.
And would you enjoy the position that you'd eventually be promoted to more, or less, than your currently boring position?
I was not actively looking. I almost always ignore any messages from recruiters on my LinkedIn account. However, one thing made me pay attention to this message from the companies internal recruiter: a high profile person, whom I respect, recently departed my company for this other company. It is what made me actually take any interest in the message.
If they hadn't contacted me, I probably wouldn't be actively looking. Life is relatively good, even if a bit boring right now because we are effectively in a maintenance mode. I have some concerns this may not change in the near term.
I believe I would enjoy the position I would eventually be promoted to. It would free me from many of those team responsibilities and meetings and let me shift my focus back toward more technical things.
Part of my consideration of this new position is how it improves my overall marketability down the line.
I don't plan on working at my current company forever. My wife and I have talked about moving from the midwest in a few years. Thinking about that, I wonder if having the higher title/pay will serve be better when it comes time for me to find/negotiate a new position in a new city.
If they hadn't contacted me, I probably wouldn't be actively looking. Life is relatively good, even if a bit boring right now because we are effectively in a maintenance mode. I have some concerns this may not change in the near term.
I believe I would enjoy the position I would eventually be promoted to. It would free me from many of those team responsibilities and meetings and let me shift my focus back toward more technical things.
Part of my consideration of this new position is how it improves my overall marketability down the line.
I don't plan on working at my current company forever. My wife and I have talked about moving from the midwest in a few years. Thinking about that, I wonder if having the higher title/pay will serve be better when it comes time for me to find/negotiate a new position in a new city.
unless you have a family to take care of, don't think about money. at your level, 12k becomes marginal after taxes. Focus on what you want for your career.
Promotions (while on the same company) are usually due to:
- merit: if your goals align with the company, stay. You will have to shift from player to coach a bit, but it is not a bad thing.
- fear of you leaving: golden cuffs. I suggest you leave. Getting stressed/bored and leaving 2 months later looks worse.
take some time to learn about 'yourself': why are you bored? what makes you happy? what do you need to feel pumped about waking up everyday and going to work?
Liking your current team members: This is a fact.
Liking your new team members: A bet.
Promotions (while on the same company) are usually due to:
- merit: if your goals align with the company, stay. You will have to shift from player to coach a bit, but it is not a bad thing.
- fear of you leaving: golden cuffs. I suggest you leave. Getting stressed/bored and leaving 2 months later looks worse.
take some time to learn about 'yourself': why are you bored? what makes you happy? what do you need to feel pumped about waking up everyday and going to work?
Liking your current team members: This is a fact.
Liking your new team members: A bet.
Go find a third, and even better offer.
Another company in my same city (still a large company, but has about 1/5 the revenue of my current company) has expressed a lot of interest in me becoming their "Mobile Architect".
My current salary is $127k. The offer for the new position is for ~$139k.
Pros for the new position: * Promoted to have more responsibility / higher title * More money * I personally know their IT director, someone whom I have previously worked with at my current company and I respect them.
Cons for the new position: * I love working with my current team members. * Going from 3 weeks of vacation, to 2 weeks at the new company * Commute goes from 15 min to ~30min * Lose my liberal WFH policy. I can now only WFH for things like weather or workers coming over. * Most of the mobile developers on my team are in another city.
I am, however, bored at my current position. I feel like I have had myself promoted into a position that I enjoy much less than I did senior developer. Most of my time now is wrapped up in resolving blockers for others, grooming backlogs, running sprint planning, etc. It could be a couple years before the possibility of promotion for me.
Should I: a) Continue with my current position and enjoy the incredible work life balance I have, and hope for an architect position in a couple years?
b) Accept the new offer and lose some freedom, but perhaps find some more work satisfaction and attain a higher position?
Also, as a follow up question, should I push back on the new company and attempt to at least get them to match my current 3 weeks of vacation? Is an 8% raise enough to jump ship?