Ask HN: Where is the next Shenzhen?
14 comments
As others have mentioned, nothing is even close. For certain types of industries there are cities in the US and Europe that are competitive (eg mil/aero in Los Angeles and DC metros), but for general product development and especially consumer electronics nothing is close.
What do you hope to gain out of living in these places? There are plenty of foreigners who have been in Shenzhen for over a decade and are only marginally more interesting or successful now than when they arrived. The location rarely changes what's inside. If you find Shenzhen interesting, just come! It (and the rest of the HK+PRD megalopolis) is not even close to peaking in terms of creative or engineering output. Just bear in mind that there will always be a barrier. If you're thinking of turning into a local you need to be either (A) a skilled Chinese (B) an extremely well capitalized foreign company (C) an extremely skilled foreigner willing to spend years in the city and learn the language to fluency.
All that being said, you want to look for cities with strong population growth trends, very low wages, and huge levels of government investment. India is probably your best bet, though I know nothing about it other than what's in the news that they want to be the next China. That will be tough since India is missing some absolutely fundamental pre-requisites to the kind of growth China has had.
What do you hope to gain out of living in these places? There are plenty of foreigners who have been in Shenzhen for over a decade and are only marginally more interesting or successful now than when they arrived. The location rarely changes what's inside. If you find Shenzhen interesting, just come! It (and the rest of the HK+PRD megalopolis) is not even close to peaking in terms of creative or engineering output. Just bear in mind that there will always be a barrier. If you're thinking of turning into a local you need to be either (A) a skilled Chinese (B) an extremely well capitalized foreign company (C) an extremely skilled foreigner willing to spend years in the city and learn the language to fluency.
All that being said, you want to look for cities with strong population growth trends, very low wages, and huge levels of government investment. India is probably your best bet, though I know nothing about it other than what's in the news that they want to be the next China. That will be tough since India is missing some absolutely fundamental pre-requisites to the kind of growth China has had.
> That will be tough since India is missing some absolutely fundamental pre-requisites to the kind of growth China has had.
Interested to hear what you think these are?
Interested to hear what you think these are?
India Cons -
1> Infrastructure - You can't get China-like public utilities (road, transport, electricity, water ...) 2> Blatant corruption -> While corruption in China is at the communist party level, every step you take in India requires a bribe, or things move at snail pace. 3> No hardware ecosystem - both the design and manufacturing skills and resources are considerably weaker than China
India Pros - 1> IP protection laws are stronger and more enforcible. 2> English fluency is high - hence communication is less of a barrier 3> Well established software and back-end-office sector. 4> Government policies are not as protectionist. 5> More conducive to free speech, so a Facbook/Google can actually thrive in India
Conclusion - Bangalore/India is the Shenzhen of software, but definitely not close in hardware.
1> Infrastructure - You can't get China-like public utilities (road, transport, electricity, water ...) 2> Blatant corruption -> While corruption in China is at the communist party level, every step you take in India requires a bribe, or things move at snail pace. 3> No hardware ecosystem - both the design and manufacturing skills and resources are considerably weaker than China
India Pros - 1> IP protection laws are stronger and more enforcible. 2> English fluency is high - hence communication is less of a barrier 3> Well established software and back-end-office sector. 4> Government policies are not as protectionist. 5> More conducive to free speech, so a Facbook/Google can actually thrive in India
Conclusion - Bangalore/India is the Shenzhen of software, but definitely not close in hardware.
Shenzhen is an anomaly, the ecosystem is a product of the nexus of manufacturing, their supporting supply chains, geography and government incentives.
There is nothing like it on the horizon, though if you're in the states take a look at the revival of manufacturing in the old rust belt cities
There is nothing like it on the horizon, though if you're in the states take a look at the revival of manufacturing in the old rust belt cities
India.
We have a huge domestic market - so you're not just solving "outsourced" problems - one of the largest talent pools in the world, and a reasonable democracy.
India is not going to take the lead in manufacturing anytime soon, but if you look at mobile tech, retail tech, payments, robotics and solar ... there's super exciting stuff happening.
Plus it is a validated market - every month sees billions of dollars of VC investment in India.
It's not perfect - for example we are already at the stage where local, homegrown startups are competing against the valley behemoths ... and gave been found lacking. But the game is just getting heated up.
(I'm a YC startup based out of India )
India is not going to take the lead in manufacturing anytime soon, but if you look at mobile tech, retail tech, payments, robotics and solar ... there's super exciting stuff happening.
Plus it is a validated market - every month sees billions of dollars of VC investment in India.
It's not perfect - for example we are already at the stage where local, homegrown startups are competing against the valley behemoths ... and gave been found lacking. But the game is just getting heated up.
(I'm a YC startup based out of India )
I was in Cebu, Philippines earlier in the year on business. Tech is absolutely booming over there and yet it's completely unheard of in the Western world. We're more interested in outsourcing development work but there seemed to be a lot of homegrown talent and innovation. Cost of living is low as well (although rising).
Perhaps Stockholm? [0] Lots of tech companies coming from there. Per-capita it's produced a crazy number of unicorns.
[0] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnol...
[0] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnol...
Good timing, major of Shenzhen is on a mission of demolishing last of urban villages and gentrifying Huaqiangbei out of existence. Good luck shopping for parts when rents go up and 'poor working people' move out.
I see a lot happening in Lausanne in Switzerland. Lots of medical devices, biosciences companies doing some pretty cool things. Look it up
Definately. Zürich also has a growing startup scene
Also check out Norway. Reference: http://startupnorway.com/oslo-startup-scene-growing/
OP asked for a city and you responded by naming a country? To make matters worse to support your claim you reference a trade group website that "was started because we saw a lack of community and support for entrepreneurs in Norway."
What are some companies you see the most potential in?
I've made my riches by buying foreclosed houses from poor people and reselling them at a major profit. It's not right that people lose their homes, but if someone is going to make money off it, it might as well be me.
This is because I would like to visit/live in places like these before they become well known (kind of like a hipster, but with less facial hair)