Newborn sleep patterns: A survival guide for the science-minded parent(parentingscience.com)
parentingscience.com
Newborn sleep patterns: A survival guide for the science-minded parent
http://www.parentingscience.com/newborn-sleep.html
59 comments
We co-slept with each of our 3 kids when they were newborns (which is not recommended by American doctors but is very common throughout the world) and from talking with friends and family I think we got quite a bit more sleep than the average parent of a newborn, and a couple of our kids have not been particularly good sleepers.
I would also add that I agree 100% with the comments about most advice not being particularly useful and also that sleep/nighttime strategy is dictated a lot by work schedule, breastfeeding/bottle feeding, and whether you co-sleep in addition to the differences in each baby.
I would also add that I agree 100% with the comments about most advice not being particularly useful and also that sleep/nighttime strategy is dictated a lot by work schedule, breastfeeding/bottle feeding, and whether you co-sleep in addition to the differences in each baby.
"We co-slept with each of our 3 kids when they were newborns (which is not recommended by American doctors but is very common throughout the world)"
Remember: all of the statistics and scare stories about co-sleeping are related to alcohol or obesity.
If you are neither drunk nor obese[1], you shouldn't think twice about co-sleeping.
[1] Granted, this does rule out a significant portion of the US population ...
Remember: all of the statistics and scare stories about co-sleeping are related to alcohol or obesity.
If you are neither drunk nor obese[1], you shouldn't think twice about co-sleeping.
[1] Granted, this does rule out a significant portion of the US population ...
FWIW, the data out there is also a bit muddled by inconsistent use of the term "co-sleeping". Pediatricians often use the term to mean having the child in your room, but not necessarily in bed with you. They'll reserve "bedsharing" as the term for the subset of co-sleeping where the infant's in bed with the parents.
That makes it a bit difficult to interpret the existing literature since you can't always be sure exactly what is being measured.
FWIW, when I was reading it seemed like the majority of the benefit comes from having the baby in the same room as you. It's fine to have them sleep in a bassinet so you can have a bit more room to yourselves. Or just if you don't want to spend all night being kicked by a restless newborn.
That makes it a bit difficult to interpret the existing literature since you can't always be sure exactly what is being measured.
FWIW, when I was reading it seemed like the majority of the benefit comes from having the baby in the same room as you. It's fine to have them sleep in a bassinet so you can have a bit more room to yourselves. Or just if you don't want to spend all night being kicked by a restless newborn.
Thanks for the info! We did a little research ourselves and the scariness didn't seem to outweigh the benefits of having the baby close enough to hear our breathing (which people say makes a difference in their self-regulation?) and my wife being able to breastfeed without getting out of bed (this is the big one).
I am almost certain that a both non-drunk and non-obese person has somewhere in the history of the world smashed their baby and slept through it.
On the other hand, if you live your life out of 1 in a million fears, your life is not very awesome.
On the other hand, if you live your life out of 1 in a million fears, your life is not very awesome.
[deleted]
>... Bed sharing for sleep when the parents do not smoke or take alcohol or drugs increases the risk of SIDS. Risks associated with bed sharing are greatly increased when combined with parental smoking, maternal alcohol consumption and/or drug use. A substantial reduction of SIDS rates could be achieved if parents avoided bed sharing.
http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/3/5/e002299.full.pdf+html?sid...
The risk is low, but it is an avoidable risk...
http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/3/5/e002299.full.pdf+html?sid...
The risk is low, but it is an avoidable risk...
Thanks for the link! That was an interesting read. For us it was sort of a balancing test. Our analysis went something like - the risk of SIDS is really low to start with, and we don't drink or smoke, we breastfeed, we sleep in a king bed and we're both light sleepers. In addition we take precautions to make sure there aren't pillows or blankets around the baby.
Towards the end the of paper it says, 'One has to ask whether it is worth taking the risk, however small, of losing a baby, when it can be so easily avoided.' I feel like that's the justification for a lot of safety precautions that each seem like a no-brainer individually, but add up to a sterile and unpleasant (and very low mortality rate) way to raise children. But I do think that's how a lot of people look at it, basically just sleep worse and bond less with your baby to take this risk from something like 1 in 5000 to 1 in 12000. But for us at least, it lowered our quality of life to not have the baby in the bed, so it wasn't really that low cost of a way to decrease the risk, especially given that 1 in 5000 starting point.
Towards the end the of paper it says, 'One has to ask whether it is worth taking the risk, however small, of losing a baby, when it can be so easily avoided.' I feel like that's the justification for a lot of safety precautions that each seem like a no-brainer individually, but add up to a sterile and unpleasant (and very low mortality rate) way to raise children. But I do think that's how a lot of people look at it, basically just sleep worse and bond less with your baby to take this risk from something like 1 in 5000 to 1 in 12000. But for us at least, it lowered our quality of life to not have the baby in the bed, so it wasn't really that low cost of a way to decrease the risk, especially given that 1 in 5000 starting point.
Somebody who thinks about risk in a reasonable way!
The crazy thing about the scare culture around raising children is that you're expected to make all these sacrifices to your quality of life so that you can eke out minuscule gains in the mortality of your infant. But nobody wants to talk about how crazy it is to then strap your kid into a steel box and hurtle around town at 60+ mph.
The crazy thing about the scare culture around raising children is that you're expected to make all these sacrifices to your quality of life so that you can eke out minuscule gains in the mortality of your infant. But nobody wants to talk about how crazy it is to then strap your kid into a steel box and hurtle around town at 60+ mph.
I don't know, I'm wary of sleeping next to my cat because I might crush her and not realize it, I'm a rather heavy sleeper. The cat can at least flee, meow or claw at me to wake me up, but a baby wouldn't.
I thought I was a heavy sleeper until I had a baby.
I have nothing against co-sleeping, since it is great for attachment, which we are big on. I just couldn't do it from a practical perspective: it means one of the parents is going to bed at the same time as the kids, every single night. Our neighbours cosleep and while they had less sleep issues than we did early on, we are now more free at night to have a bit of our own life at night. As anything with parenting, it's different for everyone of course.
Edit: i realize now that you may have done this for the first few weeks or months, in which case it's not a huge deal. The neighbors in my example are still cosleeping with their 2.5 year old.
Edit: i realize now that you may have done this for the first few weeks or months, in which case it's not a huge deal. The neighbors in my example are still cosleeping with their 2.5 year old.
My Dad & Mom did that with my nephew and niece and couldn't understand why my brother had such a hard time getting them to go to sleep. I think active grandparents that are willing to take the grandchildren for a night or two often are a blessing on any parents.
My wife is pregnant with our first. I am receiving advice constantly, but will have to wait to see what will be effective. The most interesting advice for me is the Baby-led potty training [1]. If it will work it should probably make nights easier, because change of diapers would go away earlier.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby-led_potty_training
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby-led_potty_training
Here are two unrelated (and unsolicited!) pieces of advice that I think are worthwhile:
First, parents should give serious consideration to sleeping in shifts or sleeping in different rooms. Don't sacrifice your health and sanity on the altar of "healthy couples always sleep together every single night no matter what".
Second, take note of the fact that kids do not generally throw fits about being put in their carseat. That's because they quickly realize that no matter what they do, no matter what happens, no matter what the situation - they always have to go in the carseat. That's interesting because it demonstrates that you absolutely can successfully introduce any arbitrary behavior in your child ... provided that you enforce 100% compliance. 99% compliance ? Expect WW3. Expect pain. But 100% compliance - you can make that work.
First, parents should give serious consideration to sleeping in shifts or sleeping in different rooms. Don't sacrifice your health and sanity on the altar of "healthy couples always sleep together every single night no matter what".
Second, take note of the fact that kids do not generally throw fits about being put in their carseat. That's because they quickly realize that no matter what they do, no matter what happens, no matter what the situation - they always have to go in the carseat. That's interesting because it demonstrates that you absolutely can successfully introduce any arbitrary behavior in your child ... provided that you enforce 100% compliance. 99% compliance ? Expect WW3. Expect pain. But 100% compliance - you can make that work.
This is by far the #1 thing. Humans are adaptable. If you (and partner) stay 100% committed to something kids will accept it as reality and move on. Waver for a moment and they see an opening. Just last night there was a stream of whining and fussing over dinner. After 5-10 minutes of us calmly saying no, sit down at the table, no you can't have something else, no you can't get up and go play they both just gave up and ate dinner with no complaints.
At times it can be a delicate balance between enforcing the rules that are truly important, being sensitive to their needs/capabilities, and letting go of things that don't really matter.
#2 thing is offer perceived choice, or give them a "win". Don't ask if they want to get dressed, offer them a choice between two outfits. Being stubborn about dinner: Do you want a fork instead of a spoon? Put it in a bowl? Some ketchup? Soooooo many times just giving them something to feel in-control about works wonders.
At times it can be a delicate balance between enforcing the rules that are truly important, being sensitive to their needs/capabilities, and letting go of things that don't really matter.
#2 thing is offer perceived choice, or give them a "win". Don't ask if they want to get dressed, offer them a choice between two outfits. Being stubborn about dinner: Do you want a fork instead of a spoon? Put it in a bowl? Some ketchup? Soooooo many times just giving them something to feel in-control about works wonders.
Yes - it really teaches you to choose your battles. We have to constantly examine what we're about to say because once we say it, it's law - we have to take it all the way to the (sometimes absurd) conclusion. Sometimes it's better to say nothing at all.
Great advice about "false" choices - those are great. We always give choices like "do you want to get ready for bed now, or in five minutes ?" You can avoid lots of angst with those.
Great advice about "false" choices - those are great. We always give choices like "do you want to get ready for bed now, or in five minutes ?" You can avoid lots of angst with those.
How do you guys deal with grandparents / family members / other 'grown-ups' that don't know and or don't follow your 'laws?'
That's a different game.
"Grandma lets me do X" is not necessarily the same as "I can now do X all the time", as they will find out the next time they try X at home ...
"Grandma lets me do X" is not necessarily the same as "I can now do X all the time", as they will find out the next time they try X at home ...
>...That's interesting because it demonstrates that you absolutely can successfully introduce any arbitrary behavior in your child ... provided that you enforce 100% compliance. 99% compliance ? Expect WW3. Expect pain. But 100% compliance - you can make that work.
I think that is right, but a car seat is not a great example. Babies tend to feel more secure when wrapped tightly, so it isn't hard to get them to adapt to a car seat. No one I know has ever had a problem getting a baby into a car seat.
I think that is right, but a car seat is not a great example. Babies tend to feel more secure when wrapped tightly, so it isn't hard to get them to adapt to a car seat. No one I know has ever had a problem getting a baby into a car seat.
Seconding the first bit of advice; I would go to sleep at 9 and sleep 'til 3 while my wife took care of night feedings, and then it would be my turn to start waking up to feed the kid until it was time for me to leave to go to work (~9ish.)
And, about the car seat issue: ours still starts fussing and flexing whenever we try to put her in the stroller, despite ... her always going in the stroller.
And, about the car seat issue: ours still starts fussing and flexing whenever we try to put her in the stroller, despite ... her always going in the stroller.
There's one key piece of knowledge that finally helped me understand all the conflicting advice I got from other parents: Knowing a little bit about the psychology of superstitions and how they tend to develop.
Long story short, if you're in a stressful situation where things you really want and care about (e.g., sleep) seem to happen randomly, then you're going to be actively hunting for any pattern that you can grasp onto. You're also going to be in a situation that's chock full of spurious correlations.
Long story short, if you're in a stressful situation where things you really want and care about (e.g., sleep) seem to happen randomly, then you're going to be actively hunting for any pattern that you can grasp onto. You're also going to be in a situation that's chock full of spurious correlations.
Just went through this. The advice never stops. My best piece of advice (ha ha) is to ignore everyone and do what works for your family.
Oh man, I could write a book about this. A little over 10 months ago our first was born. A boy. And the first 6 months were like a crazy rollercoaster, personally and in the sense of finding balance in the dynamic between the both of us as new parents. Very intense.
"Holy crap. I'm a dad!"
One of the most incredible internal processes I experienced was that, out of nowhere, I suddenly just knew stuff, like what to do, how to act, how to help, how to be there.
I won't write that book here, hehe - the point I basically want to make is that lots of places talk about the amazing maternal instinct, but without a doubt there is also such a thing as the paternal instinct: you know what the little guy/gal needs, what mother and child both need, and this all comes naturally. I didn't have a clue until all of a sudden I just did.
That's how it was to me at least. Like some kind of DNA-code activated all kinds of things that had an impact on my sense of self, my behaviour, my self-confidence got a boost too, and so on and so forth.
And it's true what they say: you need to have experienced it before you can really understand it.
So, to the grandparent (and parent) posters: godspeed and I wish you all the best. Have fun, and if you're anything like me then know this: patience does pay off ond things do get back to normal. Hard to realise when you're still riding that rollercoaster, but still very true indeed.
"Holy crap. I'm a dad!"
One of the most incredible internal processes I experienced was that, out of nowhere, I suddenly just knew stuff, like what to do, how to act, how to help, how to be there.
I won't write that book here, hehe - the point I basically want to make is that lots of places talk about the amazing maternal instinct, but without a doubt there is also such a thing as the paternal instinct: you know what the little guy/gal needs, what mother and child both need, and this all comes naturally. I didn't have a clue until all of a sudden I just did.
That's how it was to me at least. Like some kind of DNA-code activated all kinds of things that had an impact on my sense of self, my behaviour, my self-confidence got a boost too, and so on and so forth.
And it's true what they say: you need to have experienced it before you can really understand it.
So, to the grandparent (and parent) posters: godspeed and I wish you all the best. Have fun, and if you're anything like me then know this: patience does pay off ond things do get back to normal. Hard to realise when you're still riding that rollercoaster, but still very true indeed.
Some advice is good.
"Don't use homeopathic teething gels", for example.
"Don't use homeopathic teething gels", for example.
Eh. At least they won't do anything actively harmful.
The claim is that homeopathic medication contains zero active ingredient, and so it can't harm you.
But just about anyone can set up a factory making this stuff, and there's not much regulation, which means we have no idea what's really in there.
Homeopathic teething gels are linked to possibly 10 deaths, and 400 children harmed. That's after the manufacturers were warned about incorrect dilution.
http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/10/fda-homeopathic-teeth...
> Last month, the Food and Drug Administration warned parents to stop using homeopathic teething gels and tablets, which may have been improperly diluted. Yesterday the agency said it is investigating 10 infant deaths and more than 400 reports of seizures, fever, and vomiting that may be connected to the use of the teething treatments in the past six years.
But just about anyone can set up a factory making this stuff, and there's not much regulation, which means we have no idea what's really in there.
Homeopathic teething gels are linked to possibly 10 deaths, and 400 children harmed. That's after the manufacturers were warned about incorrect dilution.
http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/10/fda-homeopathic-teeth...
> Last month, the Food and Drug Administration warned parents to stop using homeopathic teething gels and tablets, which may have been improperly diluted. Yesterday the agency said it is investigating 10 infant deaths and more than 400 reports of seizures, fever, and vomiting that may be connected to the use of the teething treatments in the past six years.
Jesus. I had no idea.
It's a really pernicious myth that homeopathy can't do anything harmful. Skeptics love to talk about the extremely high dilutions because it makes a story that suits their purposes well. But doing so is a bit dishonest; homeopathy generally doesn't use extremely high dilutions, but it doesn't always use extremely high dilutions. Nor are production standards particularly well regulated or enforced in many countries.
As a couple others just pointed out, homeopathic teething drops in particular have come under recent scrutiny in the US for having dangerous concentrations of belladonna.
As a couple others just pointed out, homeopathic teething drops in particular have come under recent scrutiny in the US for having dangerous concentrations of belladonna.
Sure, if you don't count seizures as "actively harmful" [1]
[1] http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/uc...
[1] http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/uc...
In my experience, the stronger the opinion about the piece of advice, the less likely it is to be worthwhile.
With the obvious exception of actual medical advice, and how to let a baby sleep to minimize SIDS.
With the obvious exception of actual medical advice, and how to let a baby sleep to minimize SIDS.
What strikes me is how everyone I talk to has a different experience. Like I talk to some people who say their baby slept through the night after a couple of months, and others like myself who's kids didn't sleep for more than an hour at a time for 6 months or a year. Indeed, take all advice with caution.
One thing I will say is; even if your wife is stay home, get up with the children when you can, she NEEDS the break. My wif works full time so I always shared the duty. We bottle fed though, which meant I could share the duty.
One thing I will say is; even if your wife is stay home, get up with the children when you can, she NEEDS the break. My wif works full time so I always shared the duty. We bottle fed though, which meant I could share the duty.
> What strikes me is how everyone I talk to has a different experience.
Every kid is different sadly and especially siblings. My only advice is make sure you get a developmental screening from an expert.
// here is one example of the Denver II http://drhart.net/clinic/forms/denver%20ii%20developmental%2...
Every kid is different sadly and especially siblings. My only advice is make sure you get a developmental screening from an expert.
// here is one example of the Denver II http://drhart.net/clinic/forms/denver%20ii%20developmental%2...
In my experience, a lot of the "advice" is really a form of bragging.
Mine would stick out and curl his tongue about 10 seconds before peeing. It's all about communication.
As a new parent myself (my son is two months old), what strikes me is how pretty much everyone has their opinion on how we should feed or make our baby sleep. Some say we should help him sleep in our arms, others say we shouldn't touch him when he's in his bed...
Lately we've decided to put him in his bed and come reassure him if he wakes up, but each time we have to go comfort him we wait longer than the previous time. So we do 5 minutes, 10 min, 20 min, and so on... Usually he sleeps after the 20 minutes mark.
Lately we've decided to put him in his bed and come reassure him if he wakes up, but each time we have to go comfort him we wait longer than the previous time. So we do 5 minutes, 10 min, 20 min, and so on... Usually he sleeps after the 20 minutes mark.
In our case we just try a bit of everything and just try to see what is working and then stick to it. What worked for one baby is not always working for another.
In my experience the most important thing is to find your routine and stick to it as much as possible.
In my experience the most important thing is to find your routine and stick to it as much as possible.
For what it's worth: sleep is a learned habit. So if the infant learns to sleep in your arms it's harder for him/her to learn to sleep by themselves in a cot or bed.
But, obviously, what works for you is what's important.
But, obviously, what works for you is what's important.
As a father of 7, I agree. You have to train your children how and when to sleep or someone is going to be up once or twice every night for years to come.
When do you think this starts to matter? I mean, I assume you didn't start "training" newborns by leaving them alone all night, right?
Training starts right away but it takes a while to reach the point they're sleeping through the night as defined as '8 hours of uninterrupted sleep three nights in a row'. A wake-sleep-eat cycle will help your infant get there by 12 weeks. This book will save the sanity of new parents - recommended. "On Becoming Baby Wise: Giving Your Infant the Gift of Nighttime Sleep"
> For what it's worth: sleep is a learned habit. So if the infant learns to sleep in your arms it's harder for him/her to learn to sleep by themselves in a cot or bed.
I consider this part of perhaps the most important rule of parenting: don't do (or stop doing ASAP) stuff you don't want to keep doing. Supplementary rule: expect friction any time you stop doing one of these things, and do your best to ignore said friction, or you'll backslide and never effect change, probably causing more total suffering (for all concerned) than if you'd just gone cold-turkey.
I consider this part of perhaps the most important rule of parenting: don't do (or stop doing ASAP) stuff you don't want to keep doing. Supplementary rule: expect friction any time you stop doing one of these things, and do your best to ignore said friction, or you'll backslide and never effect change, probably causing more total suffering (for all concerned) than if you'd just gone cold-turkey.
I think the method you've chosen is typically referred to as the Ferber method
Nine children here. We were lucky and figured out our kids pretty early. If they act up at night it generally means they're over tired from not sleeping during the day. Worked with every kid for us. One bad night and the next day we doubled down on protecting the daytime nap. Solved it every time.
"Hey, remember undergrad? Yeah, it's that, but no thanksgiving break and there's always a problem set due in 3 hours. Have fun!"
I don't know how y'all's undergrad experience was, but the worst, hardest day of college is at least ten times easier than an average day of having a baby.
I'm taking a year out to stay at home with my new kid. I'm terrified -- my wife did most of the heavy lifting during the day while I worked last time 'round. She didn't have too many complimentary things to say about the experience.
The terrified feeling... yes. We have three under two (twins and a singleton), and I felt that way both times. Especially right before the birth. Both times I was relieved to realize that things became more predictable and manageable than the worst-case scenario I had in my head. Every situation is different, but I sincerely hope yours is similarly manageable.
If you struggle, keep your mind open to looking for and experimenting with small tweaks. I've discovered that details such as how tightly a nipple is on a bottle (keep it somewhat loose so air can exchange), or looking for signals like thrashing legs (gas? need to poop?) can make a huge difference. Treat it like debugging code, if that's a domain you are comfortable in.
And may you feel no shame in reaching out for help. I've never understood humility in the way I do now, and I'm grateful that I do.
I wish you the best!
If you struggle, keep your mind open to looking for and experimenting with small tweaks. I've discovered that details such as how tightly a nipple is on a bottle (keep it somewhat loose so air can exchange), or looking for signals like thrashing legs (gas? need to poop?) can make a huge difference. Treat it like debugging code, if that's a domain you are comfortable in.
And may you feel no shame in reaching out for help. I've never understood humility in the way I do now, and I'm grateful that I do.
I wish you the best!
The one thing we learned with the first one is that it takes a tribe to deal with a newborn: I simply don't understand America's desire to go it alone with newborns. I've got a list of grandparents, siblings and other assorted people coming through and staying with us for the first six months after her arrival.
After that, we're seriously considering splurging on a nanny... I like to think of it as an investment in my sanity.
After that, we're seriously considering splurging on a nanny... I like to think of it as an investment in my sanity.
My first child is three weeks old and I have a very similar support group in place. Yet even with all the help, I too, am strongly considering a nanny - I feel the thought alone is an indication that I've already lost my sanity haha
We did not have support or family close by, I deeply regretted this, doing it all our selves has been really hard, and our kids don't know their grandparents, aunts uncles cousins. It's sad really.
It is never too late to get started on building relationships with grandparents, even if your kids are now a little older. My wife and I have resolved to devote a month of vacation every year to making sure that our kids get to see their grandparents for an extended period of time.
The time spent doing this not only builds inter-generational ties but also seems to build up our parents' health: we have found that they perk up and snap out of old age haze when their grandchildren are around. In the long run, this can only be a good thing.
The time spent doing this not only builds inter-generational ties but also seems to build up our parents' health: we have found that they perk up and snap out of old age haze when their grandchildren are around. In the long run, this can only be a good thing.
It's not a complete substitute by any means, but FaceTime and video chat in general have done wonders to bridge those geographical gaps.
Yeah,
Our first is due in April, and this thought bums me out a bit. But we live in different countries, and moving home just isn't an option, so, shrug.
Our first is due in April, and this thought bums me out a bit. But we live in different countries, and moving home just isn't an option, so, shrug.
I hear you man. We're in Qatar, and one set of grandparents is in LA, and the other is in Bangladesh.
I am fortunate in that I can take time off to meet our grandparent obligations, but damn it would be easier (and CHEAPER) if everyone was in one place!
I am fortunate in that I can take time off to meet our grandparent obligations, but damn it would be easier (and CHEAPER) if everyone was in one place!
It's not scary - on a day-to-day it's just mostly deeply exhausting.
We got so much advice on how we should handle the sleep of our baby daughter and we didn't follow any. The first weeks, she was sleeping close to 20 hours a day, which gradually became less. But she showed no real day-night pattern. Also when she was a few months old, we didn't put her to sleep at a fixed time, as it was advised, as we still had a socially active life and just took her everywhere we went. When she got about 9 months old, she suddenly began to want to sleep at 8:30pm and woke up at 7. We didn't pressure her, she just showed us that this is how she likes it and she still wants to sleep now that she is 13months old. So our opinion is: you can try many things, maybe you change something. But in the end, the kid regulates itself if you let it.
Best advice we had was 'keep a diary/log' - started seeing the larger patterns that our fried brains were missing day to day.
Hold the advice unless it is asked for (and don't be offended if it is then ignored)
Looking after the baby may not be what the new parents would prefer you to do. Offer to do chores - laundry, shopping, bins, cleaning etc. Don't be offended if they also take the opportunity to sleep.
If you are giving presents - include something that is purely for the mum that is not related to motherhood - great book, fave. magazines, skin care makeup etc. as appropriate.